Episode 418: 2025 Mitsubishi Outlander, 2026 Volvo XC90 PHEV, Nissan Pathfinder Cow Adventure

It's a bigger battery next year.

You get a bigger battery right now.

Wow.

That hurt.

You need to warn me.

And you get a bigger battery, and you get a bigger battery?

Can you imagine if you went to Oprah

and she's just putting giant lithium-ion batteries

under your seat, and you have to carry it out?

That's the thing.

You get the battery only if you can carry it out

of the studio.

By giant, do you mean like?

Car-sized.

Automically, yeah, car-sized.

She'd just gone to the dump and repurposed all these things.

No, no, no.

Like they're donated by Nissan or something.

Nissan's like, we'll give you 220 batteries.

OK, here we go.

Hello and welcome to the Unnamed Automotive Podcast.

My name is Sammy Hage-Assad.

And with me, as always, is my good friend and fellow

automotive journalist, Benjamin Hunting.

Say hi to the people, Ben.

Greetings, human listeners.

Greetings to everyone.

If this is the first time you're listening to our podcast,

thank you for trying something new.

Ben and I are a pair of automotive journalists,

but more important than that, we're very good friends.

I suppose that's the case with so many other podcasts out

there, but I guess.

I don't know.

I think that a lot of podcasts

function on frenemy energy.

We don't have that, you think?

No, I don't think so.

Ben, this isn't a mean girl's situation.

No, I guess you're right.

Ben, why don't you tell some of our listeners

where they can find your latest work?

Sure, you can find my work at Motortrend, at Hagerty,

and at driving.ca.

And for those of you who like comic books or maybe

comic book curious, I have a new comic book coming

to Kickstarter on October 7th.

That is, it's called ModelUN.

It's www.modelun.com.

It'll take you to the preview page

where you can sign up for the Kickstarter.

And the book is about a group of mid-90s teens

who are in a ModelUN club at their high school.

And one day, aliens show up and mistake them

for the actual United Nations,

and they're forced to negotiate the fate of the Earth.

It's intended to be a comedy.

It's a fun book.

It's in a manga style, which is brand new for me,

and I'm pretty excited about it.

So it's www.modeluncomic.com.

And maybe we've gotten some,

you've been doing all sorts of publicity

in all sorts of other different podcasts.

I am doing a lot of other podcasts.

I think I'm on like 15 or 16

over the course of the next two weeks.

And the person who's booking me emails me every day with more,

I just did one last night as we're recording this,

and it will be published.

It's Wayne's Comic Podcast,

and it will be out Sunday morning at 11 a.m.

That is Sunday the 6th, or so the 7th, sorry.

That's the same day as our podcast comes out,

which comes out much earlier on a Sunday.

So if there's a chance you're hearing this

and you can get Wayne's podcast when it comes out,

but obviously you can listen to it

at a later day as well.

I, you know, it's funny because this is weird.

This is the first time I'm writing a comic book

where the artist I don't know personally,

like we met online and he lives in Argentina.

And so all of our communication has been text-based.

So this was the first time I was really talking

to another human being about the book

in terms of its plot and structure

and why I made decisions in terms of story.

And I was not very eloquent about it at first.

And I realized that's because in the past,

my collaborators have been friends who live nearby

and we talked about it on phone calls regularly.

So I was used to speaking about it

instead of just writing about it.

So TLDR, my brain works in a weird way.

And I discovered that on a podcast recording last night.

Well, I mean, I've seen,

I've seen in red significant parts

of the first draft of Model U.N.

First of all, really beautifully illustrated and drawn,

but really funny, funny and witty, well-written as well.

So I think everyone should be checking that out ASAP.

You're very kind.

If you, I mean, I don't have anything more interesting

than that going on, but if you do want to read my work,

you can find it over at driving.ca or auto trader.ca.

Sammy, you're raising a child.

I think that's pretty interesting.

But I don't invite people to come and watch me do that.

Okay, because they're not true.

You're not Truman showing your son?

No, and I'm not publicizing that on the internet.

That you have a son?

No, no, that, I mean, is this the first time

I've even mentioned the gender of my child?

I guess so.

No, you've talked about it.

You've talked about it before.

Come on.

They're gonna be two.

They are two now.

And that's exciting.

It is exciting.

Insane thing I've ever done in my life.

Ben, let's pair things back a little bit,

talk a little bit less about parenthood

and writing new books and more about the thing

that people come to this podcast for, which is?

Long-winded recipes.

Cars, I think?

We've got some cars on tap this week, which is them.

I've got a car that, it's a vehicle that Sammy hates.

And it's a vehicle.

Oh yeah, I forgot that.

We went on a short, I went on a short rant

about why nobody should be talking about this car.

There's two vehicles that Sammy hates

and they both occupy like a similar space.

They're both like affordable crossovers.

Oh, why are they gonna throw me out of the butt?

I like affordable cars, man.

No, you like affordable crossovers,

but these two in particular,

like they do one or two things wrong

that all the other ones do, right?

And as a result, you hate them and...

One or two things wrong.

It's more like they do one thing okay

and everything else really poorly.

The two cars that I cannot stand in this industry

right now are the Honda HRV,

which you had a recent episode about.

Yes.

And the car that you're driving this week,

which is the...

2025 Mitsubishi Outlander.

Now, there are...

Notice the end of sentence after that word, Outlander,

because I actually find the Outlander plug-in

to be like an okay compromise,

like a decent plug-in hybrid compact crossover.

It gets the job done.

The non-PHEV version feels like

everything has gone the wrong way.

Now, we haven't talked about the Outlander

in quite a long time.

Yeah, like two years.

It's been two years.

No, I think three years almost.

Okay.

Maybe two, and we certainly haven't talked

about the non-plug-in in maybe four years.

Yeah.

So the reason I...

Has anything changed?

Yes, it's been updated for 2025,

but there's a big problem with the update

that is gonna be kind of the focus

of what I wanna talk about with this vehicle.

So the Outlander, on the surface of things,

there's a lot of good stuff about it.

I don't feel the same way Sammy does

about this Mitsubishi, and I'm gonna tell you why.

For 2025, they've kind of changed the styling

on the outside a little bit.

It has different wheels.

It's got a different grille, front end, different tail lights.

In the inside, they seriously upped

the luxury quotient.

If you end up...

So in Canada, it's called the...

I wanna say the GT Premium is the top tier trim

in the States.

You want to say it's the GT Premium?

Well, in the States it's called SEL 2.5.

They also make a platinum edition, which is the same,

but it has different visual features.

The equipment is the same, and there's a trail edition,

but Canada doesn't get those.

So why I'm bringing this up is because

the version that I drove,

it's the equivalent of the SEL 2.5,

but the version that has the SEL Premium package,

which installs this really nice,

it's called Brick Brown Leather,

and the vehicle went from having

a fairly milk toast leather installation

to diamond stitching on the doors, on the seats.

It's a nice contrasting color.

The vehicle I had on the outside

was a color called Moonstone Gray Metallic,

which is also new for this year,

and it has a black roof.

So all of these things together,

it makes for a very attractive package.

Like inside of the vehicle is quite nice.

They also redid the infotainment.

The screen is larger.

It went from two knobs to one knob,

so there's really only a volume knob now,

which I wasn't super enthused by,

but it was easy enough to use.

It had a head-up display, which worked well.

I really liked that feature.

A real head-up display, not a flap on a-

Exactly, a real head-up display.

The center console's been made a little bit bigger

so you could stuff more things in it,

and that worked well for my purposes

while I was driving it.

Wireless charging for my phone,

wireless, Android Auto, and CarPlay,

it all worked very well.

No bugaboos with connecting it.

No weird disconnects.

So what I'm saying is, as a package for this year,

for 2025, they did improve it.

They did, and it's not expensive either.

The most expensive version is the one I drove,

and it starts at like $48,000 in Canada,

and it's about $46,000 in the US.

But these are non-plug-in models.

Yeah, but the cheapest version is $35,000.

And it's like $33,000 in the States.

So there's a big range here,

and most of it is comfort gear

because they all have the same drivetrain.

In Canada, they all have all-wheel drive.

In the US, you can get a two-wheel drive version

front-wheel drive model.

What's it called?

All-wheel control?

Yeah, super all-wheel control, yeah.

Is there still a button that you can press about it?

No, there's nothing.

It's like, I also, well, I'll get to that, but.

Okay.

There are a couple of things though

that actually there's three things

I wanna focus on that are going with this vehicle.

Before we get to those,

I wanna talk about this Outlander because.

I think it looks good, Sammy.

I think it's a pretty attractive vehicle.

Out of your mind.

Okay, second, second.

Basically, the Outlander borrows the same platform

and used to share the powertrain with a Nissan Rogue.

It no longer shares the powertrain,

but this is something I need to talk about later.

Very important to talk about when we do get to it.

Now it is only offered in.

I wanna talk about it later, okay?

Okay.

Let's keep going.

So let's talk about the,

we'll talk about this 2.5 though,

is available with a 2.5 and a plug-in hybrid.

I really recommend the plug-in hybrid.

It's the one standout part of the Outlander PHEV.

The Outlander has been available with a PHEV

for a very, very long time.

Somebody said too long.

I actually really like,

I think that there's a bit of refinement

to that PHEV system.

Not to say that other plug-ins in the segment

don't have any refinement,

but there's something about it

that actually works really well.

All of the controls for that work really nicely.

And to me, the 2.5 had no character, no reason to,

like it was very difficult to get the car going.

It felt like a big crossover

compared to the actual class that it sits in.

And I felt that was really diminished,

that feeling of like being a big, heavy crossover.

It's almost like you're reviewing the vehicle

instead of me.

Was diminished when you get into the PHEV.

I'm just trying to explain why I have an issue

with the non-plug-in hybrid.

Second of all, that interior, yes.

Okay, let's be clear.

They've luxuriified it a little bit,

but how much does one trust

the luxury appointments of a Mitsubishi?

What do you mean trust?

What are you asking them to do?

Like, you know, long-term, longevity, durability,

will it, will the colors, you know, transfer,

what are you doing inside your crossover

that is making you ask these questions?

I sweat a lot.

Are you just like calling big buckets of lie around?

Like, I hope I don't spill all this vinegar

on this semi-aniline leather.

You never know.

And like, man, I've got, I've seen now pictures

because I've got an outback.

Humble brag.

It's got leather seats and the leather,

and this is a notorious issue

with the latest generation of outbacks

is that the leather keeps cracking and breaking.

So you're saying that because Subaru has bad leather,

I should worry about Mitsubishi.

I got it.

I'm following you now.

I'm just following.

I'm just trying to explain that.

I've heard that Rolls Royces can be expensive to repair.

Should I worry about the Outlander?

Yeah, perhaps.

But I'm just trying to say that some automakers,

I think you can trust with their luxury appointments

and their materials.

And I don't know if Mitsubishi has earned that reputation

just yet.

Sammy, I think you're worrying about the wrong things

with this vehicle because there's three other areas

that are far more problematic for anyone

considering this vehicle.

Hit me with problem area number one.

They've retuned the suspension for this year.

And as a result, it is incredibly soft

to the point where I had other people in the vehicle

who are not enthusiasts be like,

why is this thing so soft and wallowy all the time?

That's not a good sign.

That is normal.

Normal people use the phrase wallowy.

When you're breaking and the vehicle dives,

when you're in a corner and it heaves,

when you're over rough roads, the rear end wiggles around

and then eventually settles after the bumps are gone.

And it's really unsettling.

And it's like they wanted it to be smooth,

but they went way too far in the other direction.

And it's off-putting.

It's not comfortable.

I'm not saying it's like a rough ride

and you're gonna be like, oh man, this is terrible.

But compared to almost every other vehicle in its class,

it feels very disconnected and boat-like.

Which is, yeah, boat-like.

I think that's a great way to put it.

It takes a long time to get settled is what you're saying.

That's not great for something this small.

Something this small that weighs 3,700 pounds still

should not feel boat-like.

The second problem is it is a three-row compact crossover.

Oh, by like technically a three-row,

the segment should not exist.

There are no other compact crossovers

at its price point that offer this.

I believe there's a luxury vehicle.

Isn't the EQB technically three rows?

Yes.

But like in the non-luxury world,

there aren't any of this size.

And there's a reason for that.

You cannot use this third row.

Just to give you an idea of how little leg room there is.

When you, there's two really silly things.

The first is when you pull up the row

and you have someone in the second row

and they're seated normally,

there is no room for legs.

None at all whatsoever.

The seat back, the back of that seat back.

It's touching the front of the other seat.

Yeah, exactly.

Then if you take the second row seat,

slide it to the front so that it's touching

the first row seat, there is like 18 inches of leg room.

That's not acceptable.

Because now you have to choose,

am I gonna use the second row

or am I gonna use the third row?

And I know what you're thinking.

You're like, oh Ben, kids can go in the back

and they don't really need leg room.

The problem with that is there's only a certain age group

that can really sit back there

because if you're below, if you need a car seat,

you can't get a car seat in there.

It's just, maybe it's physically possible

but as an adult trying to connect it

and fit it inside, you won't be able to do it.

Oh, in the third row?

Yeah, that would be the worst idea ever.

And so if you're an older kid,

like let's say you're 10 or 11,

you're gonna need leg room.

You have growing and kangly legs.

This means that the only kids who can fit back there

are like between five and eight or something like that.

And even then it's really gonna depend.

So they really have some distance

between them and their parents.

The third row, it's just like, who is it for?

If it's for kids in that age range,

you're only gonna be able to use it

for a small period of time.

And that also means that like,

I think a lot of people when they have third rows,

they get tagged in on and off.

You stop over at, you're dropping your kid off somewhere

and someone says, not just grandparents,

but someone says, hey, can you take my kid home for me?

Like it's on the way.

And you're like, sure, I'll use the third row for that.

It's there for that instance,

but you won't be able to do that.

Outside of that age range, it really limits you.

The other problem with the third row

is it seriously eats into cargo space.

So if you have it up,

there is 10 cubic feet available,

which is tiny, it's mostly vertical space.

And it's compounded by the fact

that the third row has these like giant headrests

that sit in a compartment

that is inside the cargo compartment in the floor.

You have to like flip up the floor,

pull out the seats, headrests, put them on,

and after the seat has been flipped up.

And then if you wanna fold the seat flat,

you have to do the reverse.

So all of your cargo space is-

Nothing like having to open the trunk,

lift a underfloor panel in order to end

and get some headrest in order to prepare the third row of feet.

It's just silly.

And when the seats are folded forward,

you can't use that compartment for storage

because the headrests are in it.

And you're still not competitive

with the rest of the class.

You're still like six or seven cubic feet

behind everyone else.

The only area where the Outlander is relatively competitive

is if the second and third rows are folded.

Even then it's not class leading.

It's just like it's in the conversation.

So in order to have this third row,

they've sacrificed practicality to a large degree,

that is disappointing.

Yeah, absolutely.

The biggest problem, I mean, I think the third row is silly.

I feel like it's something that's only there

because Mitsubishi wanted to be able to advertise it.

But-

Well, the outgoing Outlander was also a three row,

but it didn't feel this compromised.

I don't believe-

I don't remember.

It felt like a much bigger vehicle.

In any case, the biggest issue with the 2025,

and I'm gonna underline that model here,

the 2025 version of the Outlander is the engine

that Sammy hates, that he talked about,

the two and a half liter four-cylinder motor.

It has a CVT.

It's 181-

I don't hate it.

You gotta let me finish.

Okay.

It's got 181 horsepower and 181 pound-feet of torque

for 3,700 pounds.

That is not enough.

And the CVT is not well tuned.

It's not as bad as the HRV

that we talked about a couple of weeks ago.

But it's very buzzy.

You floor the accelerator,

the revs go up, nothing happens.

You lean slowly into the accelerator,

the revs go up, nothing happens.

It's hard to know if you're gonna accelerate or not.

And even with the gas pedal floored,

it's like a nine seconds zero to 60.

I live in an area where there's a lot of tourists

and I did not pass anyone the entire time

I had this vehicle

because I did not feel safe

getting around people on two lane roads.

But the reason this is a problem for 2025

is because next year it's getting a brand new motor.

Woo-hoo.

It's getting a 1.5 liter turbo.

Okay, so.

I can virtually guarantee that will be better

than what it has now.

So.

Is that gonna be the three cylinder turbo

that variable displace

or whatever variable compression engine

that's in the rogue right now?

No idea.

But why I'm bringing this up is because

this is a 2025 model year that's been refreshed

everywhere except for the engine.

And then next year it gets a new engine.

So basically Mitsubishi is telling everyone,

hey, wait a year.

Yeah, wait a, hold on.

Don't buy this vehicle.

Like I don't understand how they timed this.

It's so crazy.

They're gonna create this orphan model year

where it's like a refresh that is not really a refresh.

It's like a half refresh.

And then the next year you get the full refresh

and it's like remember when the Supra was out

and it had like a certain amount of horsepower

in the first year?

And then like way more horsepower in the next year

and everyone got mad?

Yeah.

I think it's like that.

I think that's fair.

I think that's a really good point.

Like all I have to say is I can't recommend anybody

buy the 2025 model.

Even if you absolutely need a three row compact SUV

and you need a vehicle now, maybe, maybe,

but that's the only circumstance.

I think in every other customer

should just wait for the 2026.

Yeah, of course.

What are the specs on that?

So you mentioned that you think it's gonna be

the same motor that is in the Nissan.

Yeah, let me double check that Nissan for you,

which is, I think it's a 1.5.

Because it's interesting that it didn't get

the Rogue motor right away.

No, it didn't.

It feels odd.

Like I don't understand that.

Well, I think again, I might have more to do,

like let's be clear that engine is like strange

if I remember correctly.

It's a bit of an anomaly.

No, I wanna bring it up.

It is a one and a half liter turbocharged four cylinder

and it's built by Mitsubishi, designed and built.

And it will have the first mild hybrid system.

So, I mean, that's essentially meaningless.

It's probably like, you know, whatever.

Engine start, stop.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, well, that means totally different

than whatever Nissan is offering,

which is a variable compression turbo

with three cylinders with 1.5 liters.

So that's very, that is very interesting.

And I can't wait to see

if it really is a Mitsubishi engine.

They say it's designed and built.

And okay, I mean, I guess so.

There's a lot of other things

that you caught my attention with

that you didn't get to drive.

Is that okay if I ask you,

I'm gonna try to look this up a little bit.

I didn't get to drive, what do you mean?

There's a trim level that you mentioned called Trail.

Yeah, that's only available in the US.

I need to look at this.

Next year though,

I don't know if Trail will continue

because they're introducing a rally art version

of the LF.

Oh, it's even cooler, okay.

Now we're getting there.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Again, I can't say to me though,

like, why is this all happening across two years?

Like it's so strange.

I'm looking at it.

What is happening here?

They're not explaining anything.

Good job.

Very exciting.

18 inch wheels with all terrain style tires.

Okay, all terrain style tires?

Yeah, whatever.

And they don't have like additional grip.

There's a bunch of black graphics everywhere.

They just look like they're aggressive treads?

They keep showing this roof rack on it.

You love roof racks.

Okay, but hold on.

There's this other thing that Mitsubishi has been bragging

about called Yamaha Premium Concert Sound.

Did you have this?

Yeah, I think it's in all of them.

Is this a thing?

I can't really tell these days.

It's hard for me to judge how stereo sounds.

Well, speakers, I remember it having,

there's supposed to be a lot of power

to these sound systems,

but maybe I'm mistaken here.

Anyways, the question about the Outlander is,

first of all, are there too many

compact crossovers to pick from?

And if, I believe there are,

and as a result, where does the Outlander fit in?

Is it better than the typical choices in this segment,

which are the RAV4, CR-V, Forester, Escape, and CX-5?

I don't think it's better than anything else out there.

Yeah, but it's not particularly like,

that's why I'm like tough on it,

is because it has to stand out

in one of the most crowded segments.

And that's not even mentioning things like Jeep Compass,

which is-

I'm not saying it's bad.

Okay, maybe it's better than the Compass,

or maybe it's on par with the Compass.

I just don't think that there's any standout feature

of the Outlander that you can point to and be like,

this has something that no one else has,

except for the third row,

which we've already established is a demerit.

And I mean, I didn't even mention the Korean cars,

the Tucson and the end of Sportage,

which are both very good.

Yeah, the Sportage is great.

Both offered with plug-in hybrids,

just like the Mitsubishi Outlander,

and that really diminishes the Outlander's

only saving grace.

So it blows my mind that you're just,

and there's still the Rogue,

the Rogue, which is technically so close.

And the Rogue is another vehicle is,

if you look at the Rogue,

they didn't put three rows of seating in it,

and it has way more cargo space.

Yeah, of course.

It's not like Mitsubishi engineers can be like,

oh, we didn't know.

You totally could have known, guys and girls.

Oops.

Is that what people want?

Oops, all passenger rows.

It's so strange.

It is so strange to me,

like that you just have to fill in a gap somewhere

in the lineup.

You're playing in one of the most dominant fields,

so that means that you've got to sell some, right?

People are eventually gonna get kicked out of enough

showrooms to land in yours, right?

I think I honestly think what's happening

is that people are being drawn in by the third row,

and I think it's-

You're insane.

I think it's strong marketing from Mitsubishi

to be like, hey, guess what?

Do you need a third row,

but you don't want like a super big vehicle?

Well, we have just the thing for you.

And I think that we sometimes underestimate

the power of sales and features

and how that could work for some customers

who maybe are not familiar with the fact

that if you don't get the third row,

you get way more practicality.

Like, maybe they just hear a third row

and they think, yeah, one day I'll use that.

Why would I pay more somewhere else for less rows?

You know what I mean?

That's crazy.

That's absolutely-

That's marketing.

Out of this whole world.

When you think based on your experience with the car,

they should actually be showcasing

that luxurious leather interior,

the technology that they have,

including that head up display

and this fancy new sound system,

and the affordable pricing.

I mean, I don't know what they should be.

I think that underscoring the third row

is probably smart for them

because it is the one thing they have that no one else has.

But somebody will eventually look at it

and be like, oh, God, I've been bamboozled.

Maybe, but by then they won't be bought.

Or if they lock the dealership door,

then it's like, uh-oh.

It's too late.

You've never been to a Mississippi dealership?

I definitely have.

It's a very hardcore form of negotiating.

I definitely have.

Or are they just selling people

who used to have Lancers or Glants

and they're like, time to cash in on our credit?

I don't-

Street cred.

I really hope they're not selling

to people who had Glants

because that's really a long time ago.

I don't know how-

I still see some Glants out there.

They're running long.

I don't see them.

Remember Diamantes?

Do you remember those?

Yeah, yeah.

It's like those are the,

these are these great Mitsubishi's that just,

well, I think the Diamante kind of ended its days

as a rental fleet special,

but they're just not existing these days.

I do not see Glants like you do.

I do not see Diamantes.

I don't even see DSMs anymore.

Like they used to be everywhere.

I just don't think Mitsubishi can rely

on like former Glant owners.

I feel like that's a small pool these days.

They got to push past that.

My God, I drove past a house nearby

that had, I think four Lancers out there.

They have every Lancer.

No one else has a Lancer because of this person.

Are those parts cards?

What's happening?

I don't know.

But you know, I mean,

it reminds me that Nissan had,

I mean, not Nissan,

but Mitsubishi had a really cool lineup back in the day.

Yeah.

Had a loyal following.

And now they're in super financial trouble.

Yeah.

You know, they're part of an unstable alliance with Nissan

and we don't know where it's going to go.

A stable alliance.

Well, no, it's...

I love the way you term that.

That's great.

They're just companies that have a shaky fiscal future

and it's who knows what's going to happen

and they're making the best out of it

and they're sharing all these platforms

and the Outlander's kind of been there

for a long time now.

I think it's what the most stable thing

in the Mitsubishi lineup.

Yeah, for sure.

And I mean, the RVR or whatever,

it's called the Outlander's Sport in the US.

Yeah.

And then you've got those,

they're still, on their website,

they still advertise 2024 Mirages.

So I don't know if those are still on the market or not.

I thought the Mirage was gone.

Didn't it leave Canada?

Yeah, but I'm just saying on the US website,

there's 2024 versions of the Mirage.

Mirage is a vehicle I haven't thought about in a long time.

You know I've never driven it?

No way.

Never driven it.

Because I didn't think I would have anything nice

to say about it.

And so I didn't want to just be one of the people who was,

I'm not faulting anyone for ganging up on it,

but I didn't want to do that at the time

because it was clear that it was not competitive.

And I was like, okay, we get it.

What will another voice of disappointment do?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I drove the micro.

The micro was so good, you know?

And I also liked the spark.

I think the spark was, for its price point,

a very good vehicle.

And I mean, you shouldn't, we shouldn't actually,

you need to talk about these cheap cars back in the day.

It wasn't just those,

there were also really cheap versions

of the Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio.

Yeah, yeah.

I think though that they weren't quite as good,

dynamically, as a, the thing about the micro

was it was fun to drive.

But the Americans didn't get micro.

No, it's really too bad.

They were versus.

The Accent was fine, but it was not fun.

No.

You know, it was.

And Rio was, in Canada was offered with a ton of like weird,

like it was offered with like base models,

had heated steering wheels and heated seats,

which was really cool for the time.

I will say this about the micros though.

Every single model that I see now

has a horribly rusting tacked on rear view camera.

Yeah.

That, for whatever reason,

that did not get installed properly.

I don't know if that was installed by dealers

at the port and they just drill a hole and stuck it on

for like some type of regulatory reason,

but they have not aged well.

If you have a light colored micro,

you have a racing stripe of rust down your hatch.

Yeah.

But it's like I said, it's a super competitive field.

Mitsubishi already has at least two other vehicles

in their lineup that are interesting and different.

Not, I don't know if they're super good,

but they're different in the Eclipse Cross

and the Outlander Sport.

It's so strange to me that the Outlander itself

really struggles to find, it's like to carve its niche.

But I guess you're saying with the third row.

Yeah, that's its niche.

That's 100% of its niche.

But it's not, it doesn't execute it well.

It doesn't matter.

It's like seeing a dog on a bicycle.

You're like, you don't expect it to be done well.

You're just happy to,

you're surprised to see it being done at all.

You know what I mean?

Okay.

You're like, oh, three row.

Wow.

I knew it was three.

What's that?

Okay, fine.

I'm like, what am I supposed to fade up at?

Wow, a third row.

It used to be the,

Take all my money.

Yeah, chief, take my 48 grand.

Okay, anything else you wanna talk about?

Did it remind you of anything else

that you want to be in other vehicles

when you were driving this car?

It felt old from behind the wheel

because of the suspension and the drivetrain.

Even though the cabin doesn't feel old

and the styling don't feel old.

It feels old-fashioned.

Yeah, it feels like I'm driving a vehicle.

The early...

Not dated, like...

The old plug-in Outlander felt like that too.

They kept that on the market a really long time

and it was no longer competitive,

but it was the only plug-in in its class

and it was selling, so they just kept it there.

And I feel like that same philosophy

kind of is guiding the drivetrain

in the current Outlander, the gas-only model,

which is really good in terms of styling

and design and features, except for that third row.

But the drivetrain just totally lets it down.

And for whatever reason, the suspension tuning has been...

They just turned the dial to full soft,

so you get into it and you're like...

Like they said, they're probably designing it

with the PHEV in mind,

which is back to normal. No, I don't think so

because the refreshes were done separately.

There's no need to do that, right?

Like, it's not necessary.

I want to go on two tangents.

Can I do that?

We'll see.

Try your first one.

The first one is about the last-generation Outlander,

which was an ugly vehicle that felt really dated inside,

but there was a GT model with the same paddle shifters

that you could get from the Lancer Evo.

And they had that metallic...

They were like metal.

They were like titanium or metal

and they felt so, so good.

Do you remember anything?

And that's all it takes for you?

Just some paddle shifters?

Yeah, if they had that in an Outlander,

like a gas-outlander, I'd be all about it.

Now, the other thing was,

in discussion about this powertrain

that is going to get updated next year,

it reminds me of the philosophy Nissan had

when they introduced the Frontier

with the new transmission, but not the new engine.

Yeah, so strange, so strange.

The only way that makes sense is like,

they lost the line space at some production facility.

They couldn't build the old transmission anymore.

I don't know.

That's what it is.

Anyways, that's perfect.

Maybe Mitsubishi has a big warehouse

filled with these 2.5-liter engines, you know?

Oh yeah.

Possibly.

I mean, Subaru has an engine in this size

and in this power range and with a CVT

and it feels so much better.

Yeah, I mean, it's wild, right?

The different automakers approach.

What is an acceptable experience, right?

Yeah, that's a good point.

That's a very good way of putting it.

And some care about the total product

and some don't, I think.

That's the biggest difficulty.

So anything else you wanna talk about?

Let's move on to what you wanted to talk about.

I drove something that was a plug-in hybrid

three-row vehicle.

It was the Volvo XC90.

That's like two outlanders back-to-back, right?

Like size?

Yeah.

Okay.

It's huge, it's big.

I guess the biggest vehicle that Volvo makes.

It's important to talk about this

because I drove a short while ago,

or maybe within the year, I guess,

the EX90, which is the fully electric three-row from Volvo

and found it impossible to recommend

due to its absolutely infuriating user experience.

Basically, there were no buttons to be found in the vehicle.

So many controls had to be performed

through the infotainment screen.

Did you have buttons on the key fob?

No buttons on the key fob.

No buttons anywhere.

And that was super annoying to drive.

But now I'm in the gas-electric plug-in hybrid version

of basically the same vehicle.

Is it the same platform though, Sammy?

I don't think so.

I think that the gas one is older.

Yeah, slightly older.

Now, I'm gonna tell you, this has been refreshed.

They even told me it was a 25.5 model year.

Hey now.

And that means it comes to the bunch

of little changes here and there.

Important to note, this thing has buttons on the key fob.

It has buttons on the dash.

I can change the mirrors and the steering wheel

without resorting to the infotainment system.

It is fantastic to have that experience.

Second of all, beautiful 455 horsepower powertrain

that comes from a turbocharged inline four

as well as an electric motor on the rear axle.

And when you utilize the power drive mode,

which I did for one of my commutes,

it offers a 4.8 second sprint to 60 miles per hour,

which is way too fast.

It's brilliant.

Yeah, it's wild.

Otherwise, when you drive this like a normal person

and you plug in every day or every night

or whatever you wanna do to 100%,

you're gonna get, I got 50 kilometers,

50 to 55 kilometers of range,

which is just about 25 miles, if not a little less.

But it was really...

That's about 30, I think.

It's about 30, okay, fine.

Yeah, 32 miles of range.

And overall, I averaged during my week

of about 400 kilometers, four liters per 100 kilometers,

which is what?

Four liters per 100 KOs is...

I wanna say 60 miles per gallon.

Almost, 59.

Wow.

59 miles per gallon.

I didn't mention that about the Outlander.

I got eight liters per 100 kilometers,

30 miles per gallon, that is pretty impressive.

That is actually pretty decent.

Maybe that's why they're keeping that 2.5 around.

I mean, maybe.

So these elements of the Volvo XC90

are coming together really strong.

Beautiful, everyone said, everyone that I showed it to

said the interior is really clean, well-designed.

I had no issues with that.

Tons of great vibes all around.

Now, we gotta talk about this infotainment system.

It is not using the infotainment system found in the EX90,

as I mentioned before,

but it's still using an Android automotive-based interface,

which means there's no Android Auto support.

There is Apple CarPlay,

but no like phone-based Android Auto connection.

So you have to sign into the vehicle

in order to use it.

Unfortunately, another automotive journalist

had signed into this vehicle before I picked it up

and the fleet company did not reset it

because apparently I think you have to log into the account

in order to reset the entire car.

So if you borrow the car,

you can't log out of someone else's account?

Yeah, without a password or something like that.

They disabled it, so it just kept asking me

for this guy's password.

That's annoying.

Very annoying.

And second thing, two more things occurred to me

while I was using this car.

One time I drove it and the gauge cluster

and steering wheel buttons were not responding,

which was concerning.

Yeah, absolutely.

As in basically the volume controls

and it wouldn't turn on the adaptive cruise control

and the gauge cluster,

which typically has either an info screen in the middle

or a map, just didn't show anything.

And then when I power-cycled it, it came back.

And then when I power-cycled it again on the same trip,

it turns out that the infotainment system was updating

and the infotainment was just blank for the rest of,

the like center screen was now just blank saying updating.

This really sounds like a lot of the same problems

that people have had with the EX-90.

I didn't have that kind of issues with the EX-90.

I know that friend of the show, Mike Schley,

had that problem.

Where it just was...

He lost his gauge cluster on a road trip, just went blank.

Yeah.

So let's be clear here.

Volvo still needs to sort out its issues with its software.

This, it hurts my heart because the old Volvo

infotainment system, which I think was called Sensus.

Yeah, it was not great.

But it was better than this.

Yeah, but I mean, that's the worst part.

Like we're like, Sensus was one of those systems

that had menus that came from the top, bottom

and sides of the screens and it used-

And you could only do one thing at a time.

And it had tiny fonts.

Yeah.

It was really hard to use while you were moving

and it was still pretty hard to use when you were stopped.

Like it was not very user-friendly.

It almost feels like no human beings use this software

before it's put, like they test the code

and then they just put it in the vehicles

and they're like, here you go, here's your OS

and it's not working.

That's what I felt about the EX-90.

That's what I felt about the EX-90

is that they're just like, we can update it.

We can update it.

We can update it on the fly.

We've already added new features, new software,

all this jazz.

But dry owners should not be guinea pigs.

They should not be forced to have to learn something

while, you know, getting ready for their daily commute.

I mean-

Sammy, what's the last time you learned something?

Today, when you told me that a new Mitsubishi built engine

is going to be in the Mitsubishi Outlander.

See, and that was hard.

I had to be there.

That was extremely hard.

I needed somebody else on the phone with me.

Otherwise, you know, it's so sad to say this

because I think these things drive really well.

My vehicle had an air suspension system, which was okay.

I wouldn't call it stiff or anything.

You're a big air fan, though.

I am a big air fan.

I do like good air springs, but this is fine.

And the powertrain just blew me away.

I think that was the most impressive part

and the ability to just plug in every night

and get an extra, you know, like I said,

50 kilometers or 30 miles is more than enough

for my uses in the city.

And then every, on the weekend, you know,

you can go and see your folks or your friends

or go for all your excursions using the gas engine.

So it's the same story with Volvo.

It's the good bones of a vehicle

ruined by the user experience.

Yeah. And that's really sad

because my car cost, again, over $100,000 in Canada

due to the packaging.

In the U.S., it's a tiny bit cheaper.

It's closer to $84,000 or $90,000.

That's similar to the EX90 pricing, isn't it?

EX90, for me, was closer to 100 grand, yes.

Mine, that's true.

Yes, it was very close.

So you can choose whether you want the plug-in

or whether you want to go full EV.

With your awful user interface, yes.

Okay.

How do you reconcile this, right?

How do you say you've got a good,

you've got a good car riding with bad infotainment?

To be honest, the only way is to not buy them

because if car companies feel that they can offload

bad software onto customers without complaint,

they will continue to do that

because the lesson won't be learned.

They won't have any feedback from their owners

that, hey, I've been a Volvo customer

for X number of years,

but I got in this new Volvo

and I can't make it work like a car.

That's a problem.

And it's stunning to me,

it's stunning to me that Volvo doesn't recognize this,

that they continue to push this software out

without taking this feedback, internalizing it,

and maybe taking a step back and saying,

we're making a mistake.

And that's the most,

or they have just invested so much into this

Android automotive thing that they can't write this ship.

It's definitely in partnership with Google, right?

So they're not doing the heavy lifting

when it comes to the software.

And we've seen other implementations

of this system that work.

From other...

Yeah, Android automotive OS works.

First of all, you know, I didn't even realize,

but I think Honda uses an Android automotive OS.

I think most of GM's vehicles are using that now.

Most of GM's are Android automotive OS as well.

And I think even Ford is getting there too.

And those are all functional vehicles

regardless of how you feel about the style

of the interface or how you use it,

like they don't just blank out all the time.

And there are also hard buttons and stuff.

Again, maybe this is speaking to the design culture at Volvo

where the designers and stylists have taken over

to the point where human factors

are no longer in the conversation.

And that is disappointing.

And it's like, I would love to be able to recommend Volvo

as an alternative to German luxury brands,

but it's really, really, really hard to do that

when I know that people are gonna be experiencing

this nightmare of infotainment.

And now that that nightmare

has spread to every vehicle function.

I forgot to mention actually,

when that issue I had with the cluster broke,

like I still had the Speedo and the TAC,

but my head up display was suddenly gone as well.

And the car was acting as if I didn't even have one,

like when I would go to the settings on the center screen

to be like, okay, can I adjust the head up display at all?

And no, it was like, there is no head up display

for you to adjust.

And then just so freaky, man,

like that's a $100,000 car in Canada.

Again, I'm gonna repeat what I said

with the EX90.

When you spend six digits on a car,

you expect near perfect level of execution.

And even, we're not even close to near perfect.

Like we're just asking for a functional system from Volvo

and we don't have that.

No, exactly.

That's what I'm saying.

These are two.

When I spend $50,000 on a vehicle,

I expect a functional system.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I mean, I don't care if it's fast or slow.

It needs to work.

That's not disappear mid drive.

Yeah.

That's a low bar.

That's a really low bar.

That's one of my biggest issues with it overall.

It really is a waste of beautiful design,

a great powertrain, comfortable ride.

It is a waste to have an infuriating experience here.

But every time these things happened,

I kept saying, thank God, I'm not in the EX90

where I had absolutely no other control

I wouldn't be able to lock the doors or open the trunk.

Well, don't worry, no one can steal it

because it's somehow not functional.

So I was thinking to myself, well, thank God,

I can still change the height of the steering wheel

or my car seat or anything like that.

So it's just so interesting to have similar experiences.

It just made me appreciate a hard button some more.

You know, anyways, that's why, again,

it's nothing new about what's going on over there at Volvo,

but it's just an important thing to mention.

It is a great alternative,

but you really have to suck up this experience

with the user interface.

Anything else you wanna talk about with the XC?

No, nothing in particular.

Do you think when it comes to a plug-in hybrid though,

more and more automakers are offering a quick charge port?

I haven't noticed that.

You haven't noticed that?

So I believe Range Rover offers it.

And I think I heard that the new Toyota might have it.

I think if you see a PHEV at a DC fast charger,

you would lose weight to be angry.

You would get so angry.

This is a 14.7 kilowatt hour battery.

What are you doing?

Yeah, even at a 50 kilowatt charger.

Like, get out of here, you.

Please, there's an extension cord out back.

You can use that.

I have an update about my Pathfinder, if you're curious.

Oh yeah, sure, of course.

So I finally, I had it not so great.

I don't have a garage that I can rely on where I live.

I just don't know the area.

It's been almost two years we've been here,

but I either do wrenching myself

or I work with the race shop that takes care of my dad's

and for most of my vehicles.

And my mechanic at the race shop has been rehabbing

from a surgery for most of the summer.

So things have been kind of on the back burner.

I ended up going to a sort of Shadry mechanic

who did not do the best possible job

on the very simple things I asked him to take care of

on the Pathfinder that I did not have time to do.

But I want to announce that it has new oil,

it has new coolant, but more importantly,

I had a real clunk in the drivetrain.

The vehicle drove well and I picked it up.

The guy took good care of it.

And now that it's been up on a lift independently

that's been verified, there's no surprises.

But he had replaced the drive shaft

with a kind of like a jobber style drive shaft

because the old one was unbalanced.

I have the old one,

which I was ready to balance and reinstall if necessary.

Because sometimes, you know, it can be either,

it's not, the drive shaft isn't installed properly.

Maybe there is a bushing that is causing the clunk

with gear shifts and whatnot.

Or when I lift it off the gas, I would get a clunk.

It turns out it was because of the rear trailing arms,

the control arms in the back.

The R50 Pathfinders have a design

that destroys the bushings, it just eats them up.

And it doesn't matter which ones you use.

If you have rubber bushings in your control arms,

they are on borrowed time.

And the only way to really fix this issue forever

is to go for poly bushings.

I didn't really want to go for poly bushings on a vehicle

that is going to see very little mileage during the year

because it has now graduated to being my leave behind.

So I'll be lucky to put between 500 and 1,000 kilometers

on it every year.

It's kind of sad.

But that did let me know that if I replaced

those control arms, they'll be good for like ever.

Like I'm not worried.

And replacing the control arms fixed the clunk.

What I was hearing was the control arms

and the rear suspension moving under load.

And I had noticed a little bit of a wiggle under power

when I was driving, but it didn't feel that bad

because again, this is a 22 year old SUV.

It's a mix of unibody and full frame

and it has a solid rear axle.

So the rear end isn't going to feel super planted, right?

But it turns out that that's what it was.

It was the wiggle I was feeling

and the clunk were all related to the control arms.

Those have been replaced.

There's nothing else wrong with the vehicle.

I mean, everything functions as it should.

And I've been enjoying driving it around.

It's sad that it's in the city now and I don't,

I get to see it once a week and drive it once a week,

which is great.

I'll be able to do that all year round,

which I don't get to do with my other cars.

But it's sad that it's not here anymore.

It was a lot of fun.

It's a lot of fun to play Nissan Pathfinder Cosplay

as I've mentioned in past episodes.

I'm glad.

Are you, you're happy with it?

Yeah.

I mean, it feels expensive as a vehicle

that is only going to be driven once a week,

but it's also not going to let me down.

And I have the, I drove the Subaru back home,

my Impreza, I still have it.

And I was sad because like on the road home,

the Impreza drives nice.

It's more comfortable than the Pathfinder, right?

It's a car.

It's a car versus a truck.

And the fact is the reason the Impreza

is being taken off the road is because of deferred

maintenance that has just added up

over the last four years.

I paid like 1500 bucks for it in 2021.

I've put no money into it since then.

I've done all my old oil changes

and brake fluid changes and whatnot,

but it needs new brakes and rotors up front.

They're just too corroded from sitting.

It needs a new windshield.

There's rust on the car that I'm assuming

is going to reach a critical level at some point.

And when that happens, I'm going to either be stranded

or I'm going to be looking at a very expensive repair

on a car that's not worth it.

And that's what's this made me make the decision

to invest that money instead in the Pathfinder,

which is extremely clean.

And I don't have any of those surprises waiting for me.

Yeah.

You sent me a bunch of pictures of your Pathfinder.

I'm like, what?

This is such a gorgeous, like it's so clean.

It's pretty much a time capsule.

And I'm like, you've got to show me closer photos

because from the distance you showed me,

it was like this.

It's the same.

It's a good driver.

It's got a few, you know,

dense and divots from being in parking lots.

It's the kind of vehicle that you could park anywhere

and walk away from it and not worry about it.

You know, like it's not showroom condition,

but it's not a beater.

And my Impreza is definitely a beater.

And I'm concerned about whether it's going to make it

through another winter.

So that's, it's crazy that I've spent like four times

the amount on the Pathfinder that I have on the Subaru.

Oh, the other thing the Subaru needs is an exhaust system

because it's broken twice in the last 12 months.

And I've seen it underneath.

And I don't really know if there's anything left

to weld to, to fix at this time.

So I could fix the windshield and the exhaust system

and try to sell it.

I could sell it as is for like, what, a thousand bucks?

But that seems like I'm inviting the worst possible people

to come over and barking me down.

And what's my defense?

They're going to be like, yeah, you're right.

I mean, it is a beater.

Or I could take it to a scrap yard and part it out,

have people part it out and use it in their cars.

Because there's some stuff that's still good on it.

I mean, it's got some good body panels

in addition to the stuff that's rusty, like the hood,

the doors, the trunk, those are all good.

It's really just rockers and wheel wells

and typical Subaru stuff, right?

The interior is pretty clean.

It's got good seats.

It's got the WRX style seats with the extra bolstering,

the Momo shifter and all that.

Someone can make some use of it.

I thought about turning it into a rally cross car,

but I'm pretty sure it would self destruct

like the first event.

Like I would just hit whatever was bumpy

and like parts would fly off.

And they'd have to close the track down

and I would make a whole bunch of enemies.

But you'd win because of that.

I don't know if you could call that winning.

You win by default.

Did you talk about your Pathfinder's call to duty?

Oh, I forgot.

No.

Ha ha ha ha.

So my favorite, this is my favorite thing it's done.

And Sammy, I took a video of this

that it didn't save properly and I'm so sad about it,

but I was driving it to get washed on Sunday

and I live in a rural area

and I'm coming up this long stretch of hill

and there's these cows in the road.

And a couple of cars have stopped ahead of me

and then traffic starts backing up on the other side.

And I firstly thought the cows were crossing

which isn't that unusual, I guess.

But they had actually escaped.

Like the fence was open, cows were in the road

and there was a guy who was trying to shoe them

back into the fence.

So my Pathfinder has a bull bar on the front,

a factory bull bar.

And I got to use the bull bar for bull purposes

for the first time in my life.

I drove out around the cars in front of me

and one of the cows was wandering away from the guy

and I got the car, my car in front of him

and like blocked him with the bull bar

and the cow like looked me in the eye

and then looked at the bull bar

and then like turned around and went back into the field

and I drove behind him and I was like hurting this cow

into the field with the bull bar

and then I parked across the gap so they couldn't get out

and I talked to the people there

and they were like trying to find,

the fence was just missing.

It wasn't like it was open.

So they were trying to find like a length of rope

or something, anything to dissuade the cows from leaving.

And then I took off.

So it was like, it was kind of fun.

It was again, this country cosplay

that I have with this Pathfinder,

it was an interesting afternoon.

That's brilliant.

I mean, you have a bull bar, you used it.

That's, how many other Pathfinders can say that?

I don't know.

If you can say that,

if you have used your car to herd an animal,

I want to hear about it.

Hit us up, Benjamin at benjaminhunting.com

or unnamedautomotivepodcast.com

where you can find the contact form

and tell us about your animal experience

and click submit and we will get it in our inbox.

Or you can find me on Instagram at huntingbenjamin.

Sammy is also on Instagram at Sammy underscore hot,

like you're laughing.

Ben, what are we talking about next week?

Next week, I'm going to be talking about the BMW M2

with the six-speed manual transmission.

Oh, wow.

Okay, that's a great car.

I mean, to talk about.

I've got the 2026 Honda CR-V Trail Sport

to talk about next week.

Okay, well, thank you for listening, everybody.

Thank you, everyone.

We'll talk to you later.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

Episode 418: 2025 Mitsubishi Outlander, 2026 Volvo XC90 PHEV, Nissan Pathfinder Cow Adventure

Honda Hrv

Mitsubishi Outlander

Nissan Rogue

Subaru Outback

Toyota Supra

Honda Crv

Mazda Cx5

Toyota RAV4

Jeep Compass

Kia Sportage

Mitsubishi Lancer

Nissan Not Nissan

Kia Rio

Hyundai Accent

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution

Nissan Frontier

Volvo XC90

Volvo EX90

Ford Excursion

Land Rover Range Rover

Nissan Pathfinder

Subaru Impreza

BMW M2

About this episode

Original notes