Episode 98: Here's A Wagon, Get On It
Tired: The Car Podcast For People Who Understand That Cars Are Bad
Episode 98: Here's A Wagon, Get On It
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Car
Toyota Prius
The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gasoline and electricity to run, making it very efficient. Many people like it because it helps save on fuel costs and is better for the environment.
Term
charging management
Charging management helps electric car drivers keep track of their battery life and find places to charge their cars. It makes planning trips easier by showing where you can stop to recharge.
Brand
Rivian
Rivian is a company that makes electric trucks and SUVs. They are known for creating vehicles that are designed for outdoor activities.
Car
Ford F150
The Ford F-150 is a popular pickup truck that many people use for work and everyday driving. It's known for being tough and reliable.
Car
Toyota FJ80
The Toyota FJ80 is a model of the Land Cruiser, which is a tough SUV made for off-road driving. It was made in 1991 and is known for being very reliable and good for adventures.
Car
Genesis G90
The Genesis G90 is a fancy car made by the Genesis brand, which is known for luxury vehicles. It has a lot of comfortable features and is designed to be very nice inside.
Car
Hyundai Genesis
The Hyundai Genesis is a fancy car made by Hyundai that offers a lot of luxury features without the high price of other luxury brands. It's known for being comfortable and well-made, making it a great option for someone looking for a nice car.
Brand
Lamborghini
Lamborghini is a famous Italian car company that makes very fast and expensive sports cars. They are known for their unique and flashy designs.
Car
Audi A2
The Audi A2 is a small, practical car that was made a while ago and is known for being lightweight and efficient. It's designed to be easy to drive in the city and has a unique look that some people really like.
Car
Hyundai Elantra
The Hyundai Elantra is a small car that is easy to drive and good on gas. It's a popular choice for people who want a reliable vehicle without spending too much money.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Sclass
The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is a very fancy car that is big and comfortable, designed for people who want a lot of luxury features. It's known for having the latest technology and a really nice interior, making it a popular choice for those who want to travel in style.
Concept
station wagon
A station wagon is a type of car that has a longer body and a hatch at the back, which makes it easier to carry more stuff than a regular car. It's great for families or anyone who needs extra space.
Car
Honda Crv
Car
Honda Hrv
The Honda HR-V is a small SUV that offers a lot of space and good gas mileage, making it a great choice for families.
Car
Toyota RAV4
The Toyota RAV4 is a small SUV that is very popular for families because it has a lot of space and is known to be dependable.
Car
Lucid Gravity
The Lucid Gravity is a new electric SUV that promises to be very luxurious and high-tech. It's made by a company that focuses on electric cars and is designed to be a comfortable and stylish option for families.
Concept
minivan
A minivan is a type of vehicle that is larger than a car and designed to carry more passengers. They usually have sliding doors and a lot of space inside for families and their gear.
Car
Peugeot 505
The Peugeot 505 is a car made by the French company Peugeot, produced in the late 1970s to early 1990s. It's known for being comfortable and having a lot of space, especially in the wagon version, which is great for carrying things.
Part
solid axle
A solid axle is a strong part of the car's rear suspension that connects the two back wheels. It helps the car handle heavy loads and is often used in trucks and SUVs.
Car
Saab 9-5
The Saab 9-5 is a car made by the company Saab. It's known for being comfortable and safe, and it often has a turbo engine that gives it extra power.
Car
Mazda Protegé5
The Mazda Protegé5 is a small car that has a wagon shape, which means it has more room inside compared to regular cars. It's fun to drive and easy to handle.
Car
Mazda Miata
Mazda is a car brand from Japan that makes cars known for being fun to drive. One of their most famous models is the Miata, which is a small, sporty convertible that many people love.
Term
CAFE standards
CAFE standards are rules that help make cars use less fuel. They set goals for how many miles a car should be able to drive on a gallon of gas, helping to save energy and reduce pollution.
Term
fuel economy standards
Fuel economy standards are rules that require car manufacturers to make their cars use less fuel. This helps save money on gas and is better for the environment.
Term
corporate average fuel economy (CAFE)
Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is a rule that requires car companies to make their cars use a certain amount of fuel. It helps make sure that the average fuel efficiency of all the cars they sell is high enough.
Car
Ford Explorer
The Ford Explorer is a popular SUV that many families use for its roomy interior and ability to handle different types of roads.
Car
Chevy Tahoe
The Chevy Tahoe is a large SUV that can carry many passengers and is often used for family trips or towing.
Car
Dodge Neon
The Dodge Neon is a small, inexpensive car that was popular in the late 90s and early 2000s. It's known for being a good choice for people who need a reliable car without spending too much money.
Car
Nissan Leaf
The Nissan Leaf is a small car that runs on electricity instead of gas, which means it's better for the environment. It's popular because it's affordable and great for driving around the city without needing to stop for gas.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a fast and powerful car that is designed for performance. It's a special version of the regular BMW 5 Series, made for people who want a sporty driving experience.
Car
Toyota Camry
The Toyota Camry is a popular family car that is known for being dependable and easy to drive. It's a good choice for people who want a comfortable car that doesn't break down often.
Car
Subaru WRX
The Subaru WRX is a sporty car that can handle well in all weather conditions. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, especially on rough roads.
LIVE
I
Was just watching a YouTube about the
What is it the Mike Strow
S800 which is which is the the wall way
Basically
Basically like my buck competitor
Big huge like fucking huge like Rolls Royce, you know, like that kind of thing where it just like it makes anybody standing next to it
look like a child, you know
proportions
and I mean it just like the level of tech and and
And luxury on the interior is just
Fucking bananas like crazier than literally anything I've ever seen before
It's like a hundred thousand dollars. It's like a hundred a hundred and fifty grand
But it just looks so outrageous and so over the top
It's pretty I was looking at
I was looking at the honky
What is it I forgot what it's called the honky
Yeah, Goya
It's that huge
like
No, it's limousine. It's like
Put it in the chat
Hi, Maddie, are you there? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
Oh interesting
Yeah
Yeah, that actually looks like it's probably swimming in the same waters as this this mic strobe
Yeah
Be a good car for me
Yeah, same. I'm pretty into the to the mic strobe. I would I would fucking rock that the styling on this good
Oh, I would just I was just gonna say I would need a driver
Yeah, of course the
I mean, it would be it would be fun to like
occasionally
You know tell the driver just to climb it back and just you know like to
Just it's like a fun thing
Hey, why don't you why don't you why don't you why do you take a day? Yeah, live it up
I'll I'll I'll do the driving today just like as a treat, you know, because I'm a I'm a
Benevolent man of the people. Yeah
I
This is all part of my regional governor fantasy
The styling is kind of like took me a second to get used to but I think it's really a nice like elegant car
Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty I'm pretty into the to the mic strobe as well. Yeah. Oh, yeah
It's a different differently a different aesthetic like a little bit more brutalist. Yeah, but it's it's really nice
Yeah, the mic strobe has a lot of this kind of
Like the light like all the lighting stuff has these kind of like
Like this this kind of like star
like yeah, like like twinkling stars where it's like they're kind of like like randomly
Spread across it, you know, so it's just like this kind of like
It's it's not like it's not like regular and geometric it's more kind of like organic looking but
It's like the kind of thing that I
Could imagine in 20 years, just you know, one half of them don't work or whatever just like looking so stupid looking like total shit
But like yeah, but when it's like brand new it's like
That's like I always whenever I see a car like this I always imagine
Finding it in a junkyard in like 30 years, right? No, totally. Yeah
I mean, especially with with that level of of of just tech and gadgetry, you know, yeah
How much is gonna work even what was this supposed to be?
Yeah, okay, I see what they're doing there
Oh
Maddie, can you hear us send us a sign?
We can't we can't see or hear Maddie, but but he's there. He's present
We have we have to use our faith to yeah
It's kind of like it's kind of like when you I don't know visit your friend who's in a coma in the hospital and
Like, you know, you have to just kind of like
Take it on faith that that they know that you're you're there
Twinkling heart coming up from
Maddie's in a computer coma
This is like my personal relationship with Jesus Christ
My personal relationship with Maddie right now. Yeah, I don't see or hear him, but I know he's there, right?
Exactly
It's funny Maddie. I actually did. I mean I for the last week and a half have been
laying the groundwork and then
for and then
actually
successfully completing
My first system software update on this computer since I bought it in 2020
and
And it's weird. I'm kind of shocked that like
Everything
Seems to work fine
Like there's like some of the few of the windows look different on like, you know when you go into your settings or whatever
Kind of have to hunt around to find the stuff that you're used to look, you know finding in one place, but
Apart from that pretty seamless
Shocking I know I'm sure I'll discover some
Something that will infuriate me
I
I'm actually writing something right now. It's gonna get published, but it's about apple carplay and
just like the kind of
Intrudification of Apple
Hmm and how bad everything's gotten I think like I
Reluctantly got a new iPhone whatever a couple weeks ago
Yeah, and just the amount of stuff on it
It's like seems like like a kind of half considered or like not considered and it's like this is shocking to me
Like that company that their whole thing used to be like UI UX and like yeah, like we're not gonna be the most hardware forward
Company, but everything fucking works. It's reliable. You don't have to think about it
And it's like that is just very much not the case anymore like the stuff
Does not work reliably. Yeah, interesting. I will say that that I did poke around online before
updating my system software and
And based on what people were saying
My I updated to like two OSes ago
I'm not running the current one because because that apparently that was the last one. It's like Sonoma or whatever
That was the last one
Before they started just shoving like AI shit into it
Yeah, like AI helpers or whatever. Yeah, and and I was like, okay. Yeah, that one sounds good. I'm gonna go with
So I'm still running a
an obsolete
OS but
But it seems to be working all right. So so is the is the
And and also my phone is from the same generation as my computer. So
Is is carp have they have they fucked up car play? I don't use car play
I don't ever use car play because I there's like stuff in car play like
having to hit
two buttons
Like once you've selected a destination in the nav
Like you have to hit two
Additional buttons to make it go which is just like it's like little things like that are just like, okay
No, this is not like the person who designed this has never been in a car before. Yeah, and like I don't I don't ever use the the Apple
I don't use Apple Maps. I just I use I use like I use Google if I'm on on the computer and and I use
You know, I use ways in the car. It's like it's like the one it's like the one thing that that I can never
Be you know be fully BDS about because because Waze just has saved me from so many fucking tickets
I think I think it's now integrated into Google Maps to select. Oh, is that right? Just use Google Maps. Yeah. Yeah
But you're still but you're still using it. Yeah, but it doesn't have the branding on it. You can delete the app
Okay, well either way, it feels like you're still you're still implicated if you're you're cheating for sure, but it's
It's not as
You know, it's you're like creating rules around it's like
one of those religious
Tricks, you know where it's like, oh, no, you actually can do that. You just have to do it through a hole in the sheet or like
You're soaking or whatever
The Mormon doesn't up raises it's brigade
skit from a long time ago where
Matt Besser
Determines that he actually can't eat pork, but he just has to do it through a hole in a sheet
Yeah, I was talking to somebody
The other day who is who is talking about how like their wife has like he wanted to buy a new car
But his wife won't give up her old
Prius or whatever because
Because she doesn't like because she loves the the the nav
That's in that car and she doesn't like the nav and the new one and and I was just so confused like listening to because I'm just like who
Like to me that the idea of using the the native nav in any given car
Yeah, it's just completely alien. It's like not something I've ever done. I've always
And I mean I kind of I get it like in the case of the Rivian because then it has like that the kind of like managing the
Charging and stuff, you know, like like finding charger chargers and and and range and and doing all that stuff being able to kind of like direct you to
to a charger on a trip and and kind of minimize your your
Charging time or whatever that makes sense to me
But I mean if you're just driving it like a regular car, it's like I don't why would you use it, you know, and and most of the time it's just like
The yeah, I mean in my experience anyways, which is pretty limited
especially recently
would guess that this stuff has improved but
It's always just been very clunky, you know, just like inputting destinations or whatever
So I just never bothered
Yeah, the
Rivian one is like is I think like the example for me of like it actually can like I
Think like the point I'm trying to make with this story that I don't know if I'll ever even finish but like it's like I want to read it
I'm curious to read it. So you should finish it. Okay, but like the
the UX UI ground
That Apple like used to occupy has been seated and I think like
You know it the idea that 20 years ago, I think it was the case that automakers could not
Compete there and they could not produce something
As good, but it's like I think Rivian and a couple others kind of prove that like you kind of can it's like
like maybe Rivian like maybe car companies who have like
some
Experience using and living with cars are better kind of suited
then
Companies like Apple were like, you know, if you were to tell me based on my iPhone that no one who works at Apple has ever seen a car
in person, I would totally buy it
I think that's totally possible. They're all just taking Ubers. Yeah
All right
Yeah, I mean, it's funny. It's like like GM doing the whole like
like no
Carplay integration like like we're just we're gonna force you to use our native
Kind of software systems
I'm so conflicted about that because on the one hand, I love
Like somebody being, you know, like big enough and just fuck you enough just just to be like
Just to say no to Apple
On the other hand
as somebody who who, you know likes my ways and and and and likes and you know, it's just like used to
To carplay and and have you know, I don't have any problem with it or you know, have never had any particular problem with it
like the idea of just kind of like having to
Learn some other
Thing just to do like dumb shit like fucking turn on the air conditioning or whatever
That's really annoying to me. Yeah
So, yeah, I don't know. It's not like I'm in the market anyways, but
Yeah, I
The like BMW
Or like GM doing that is about like the data thing. It's like about not sharing their data with Apple and like not yeah
So like it but it's not because they're ideologically opposed to to no, you know to hoarding your data
It's just they want it for themselves
Yeah, of course, of course, I mean, it's like and I get that from a business standpoint
It's like if you're gonna go through all the trouble of doing it like why would you give it to Apple?
And it's also like
Apple already has
Whatever nine tenths of that they don't have like maybe you're you're like breaking and steering behaviors
But like the phone is in your pocket. Exactly. They know where you're going. Yeah
And they know what you do when you get out of the car too. So like yep
the
That that part of it I get but I also think like
the
I do think like it's just like GM can do better than Apple that UI UX like I think like I
Just like I said, I the the experience with Apple products like that the one that that
Didn't get me thinking about this but like last night
so at night I have
Downtime set up which is like, you know, all your messages are silent and then like
But it doesn't work
So like certain apps will just stay on despite the fact that I have them turned off and then like I have
Did it do that with with earlier with like your older phone? No, okay
So it's just the new one is not is not respecting your your downtime boundaries
Some of them it's like some of it still works and then there's like this
Like there's a selection that you can do like, okay
I always want access to these apps and you like select a group of
group of apps
Which like I I went to try to find safari because I was like, you know
I still want to be able to to read or or whatever
Yeah
Safari's not on the list anywhere. You can't enable or disable safari
Like it's an oversight or what
So like during downtime you can access safari, but you can't access any websites
So like if you pull up
Safari they'll say yo, you're over your your limit for safari today and it's like what the fuck
Dismiss it. It's really strange and then like
So finally and this is like the sign of of how bad things have gotten with Apple like how often I do this where it's like
I googled the problem where it's like, hey, this doesn't make sense or whatever and like the number one
Result that I got is a guy in the like what an Apple user forums like the official ones saying like, oh, no
This is how it's supposed to be like it but it's like completely nonsensical
There's and there's all kinds of like it's like, why would you be able to access safari but not open any websites? It's like
It's a very like you know what I mean
It's like oh you're out of oh the message I got was your out of time for Google.com today. You've used too much Google.com today
Based upon like yourself imposed limit or
You can't adjust the limit for safari it like it's just it's a fuck. It's like a bug like there's no
You don't even sound like mad
Yeah, it's like I have to keep my five-year-old phone forever now, too. Yeah, it's um, I mean
But that's the thing is like you wish you could do that, but they'll start
Yeah, changing your battery life. I mean the thing that got me is like both iPhones the the speaker like the actual like
voice speaker headset speaker to stop working at the same time
Which is like there's no hard our phones are four generations apart
They're both like in pristine shape. There's no hardware reason for that to happen
It's just like they need to get a new phone. Maybe maybe it was a solar flare
There's been a lot of that stuff going on just burned up that one could it have knocked you guys both out
Yeah
Yeah, so there's that there's like there's little things like
Apple the like the way they do like their Bluetooth logic where it's like in my
1995 Ford f-150
there's like a old Bluetooth headset or a
Head unit and you can select
You can tell it not to automatically connect to Bluetooth
Because like there will be a time
where I have my headphones on and I'm
Using the chainsaw or whatever and I hop in the truck to move it
I don't want it to automatically connect to the Bluetooth system like that makes sense
But Apple like on the iPhone you can't do that
You can't select different Bluetooth devices and say like connect automatically or don't connect automatically
so my experience of using my
AirPods or whatever is
Walking past the Rivian
Right, you know or near enough to the Rivian and having it connect to the Rivian
Or like having it connect to the Bluetooth in my shop like just because I'm close enough to the shop
Why would that be like what what conceivable use case you know what I mean?
It's like yeah, and it's just stupid shit like that where it's like
Have you ever fucking use these products at all like if you're thought about like who well, dude
The why do you think I'm still on fucking wired earbuds? Yeah, like I fucking hate Bluetooth so much. Yeah, I know
it's
It's really annoying it just and it's just like
this is
This is just not a company that cares at all about the experience of their users
They care about like finding ways to extract money from you and like make you pay for subscriptions and stuff
but it's like
anyway, the idea that that they're to be all and all of like
You know digital user experience or whatever it's just it's it's not plausible to me anymore
And I just I don't think like I don't think there's a car maker out there who can't do it better
And I like the Huawei stuff like Kevin sends me
Kevin Williams sends me like screenshots of like the in-car
Whatever infotainment systems in in Chinese cars, right?
And they're so good and intuitive. That's like they're in Chinese and I'm like, oh, I can I know how to use
The Chinese the Chinese characters are more more understand more legible to you
It's like I could get it and use this car
So I yeah
Yeah, I don't but I don't I do I do I was gonna say I do love that at this whole time that we've been
griping about just the unusability of of Apple
interfaces
the the last note in the last thing that we've heard from Maddie in the text thread from like 15 minutes ago is
Just him saying windows audio device manager. I'll kill us both
Yeah
It would seem that
Microsoft
Partisans might might be experiencing something
Not dissimilar to to us over here in Apple world
Let me out
that that is the thing too is that like
It is not
There's not an alternative right. There's no there's no where to go and that's like, you know
I years and years ago because I was so mad at my iPhone. I bought a
Pixel Google Pixel phone. Yeah, and it was I thought about doing that's the thing
I thought about doing that and every time I I mentioned it to somebody
They just they just shake their head. It's like you just you're just buying yourself a different set of
headaches. Yeah. Yeah, and it it
That's so
It it is crazy to me
I mean, it's like it's the it is a great example of the Cory doctora like in shitification thing, but it's just like
Just everything is bad it's like
And it's and it's bad in like a way of just like oh, we don't care
We didn't did you see that? This is like
Maddie without Maddie's guidance. This is really going off the fucking rails
But
Did you see the the mad men thing?
No
So I've never watched Mad Men. I haven't either. Okay, but it's you know, it's it's a great. Oh, I know what it is
Wow three all three of us Maddie's Maddie's chiming in to say he's he's also never watched Mad Men
that's that's rare for there to be a
plurality of
or a quorum of of
More than two people who have never seen Mad Men in my experience. I think I I'm pretty
I'm pretty reliable. I've never seen that TV show person because I have my I have my
My weird terror about watching TV shows in that time commitment that it's involved. Oh, okay
Yeah, I have like a when I whenever I people are like, oh, you should watch this TV show which like there's a bunch of shows
That I think I genuinely probably would like
but I have a
Like I have a completionist is that the thing where it's like if I start something I have to finish it
Yeah, and so I always psych myself out
It's like if you watch one episode of this you're watching 100 hours of the show and I'm always like oh you can
You can you can dip out at anything the thing the thing like I can't I pretty rarely do it on on my own
I mean, I would say almost never
Yeah, but but for for for me, it's it's more of like a thing like it's like finding something that that both my wife and I
like enjoy together and and then it becomes like like, you know
Like a thing that we do together and yeah, and then and then it's kind of just like an excuse to just like hang out
Sit on the couch and watch watch our show and and then and then that becomes just like a regular thing until until the show is exhausted
That might be that might be good advice. That might be helpful for me
Yeah, but it's but but the range of stuff that we're both into is pretty
Pretty narrow. It's like we found a handful of those those shows over the years and it's like like she likes kind of like
You know like crime stuff and I like kind of you know
spy stuff or or
You know whatever and so so something like
Like the Americans we were both pretty into
Which is like that
Like show about like the soviet spy couple like in yeah
And which I enjoyed because I could like root for them
Yes, they're as they're just like killing people
So like yes
You know or just like fucking better call Saul or you know shit like that, you know, so the the madman thing
It's a great
Whatever American TV prestige TV drama, you know, maybe one of the greatest TV shows ever by I think by by many estimations
Many people are saying it many people are saying it in 4k. It's like a new
Master or whatever the show remastered. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like in a really shitty
Like it's not color corrected
It's like in a really dull
Whatever color scale, but the the thing that was making the rounds yesterday is
When they reformatted it
There's like all these shots that are wider than they're intended to be and then one of them one of the characters throws up
and
clearly visible in the shot is a man holding a
Pumping device with a hose
behind the guy
It's like it is like schlocky like
It's like seeing the boom mic in like Evil Dead 2 or whatever, right?
it's like but it's like it is there's just a dude in
jeans and a t-shirt
Operating this device in the scene and it's like
That's currently the version of Mad Men that is on HBO right now, and it's like
Maddie just said the screen cap
It's like totally takes you out of it, man. It's like wait a minute that guy's not dressed like he's in
1962 and why why does he why does he have a throw-up machine?
It's there's two guys
They didn't have ball caps like that in 1959
But it's like and in the there's another like in the actual video of it
There's you can see there's like a big towel or something on the floor
This is like they don't ruin the carpet, but it's like again at the in certification. It's just like nobody watched it
Nobody HBO Max, you know, whatever. That's a hundred million
That's so funny
Come so it's re it's it's quote-unquote remastered, but really it's just like yeah, just shut the raw files
Don't even edit it. They won't know the difference
It's so gross
I'm only going to I'm gonna watch all of Mad Men, but I'm only gonna watch it that
It's so
Just
Yeah
Maddie says it's like if tired pod remastered was just everyone's wave files
You have to listen to each of our solo
Recorded one at a time
First you got to buy four stereos
But yeah, the it
That's that's like that whole thing that's like everybody's thing was just like yeah, fuck it who cares, but it's like I
Listen, I've produced my share of like
Yeah, fuck it who cares content over the years
I think like learning how to do stuff or like being super underfunded or we're trying to figure it out, but it's like
It it it's it doesn't bother me if it's a DIY effort and you can like hear the
The
Whatever pivot in the kick drum squeaking sure a bit. Yeah, okay, but it's like your HBO and your Apple
And it's like you already have all my money and I'm paying you
Now did I pay $1,000 for this phone?
But I'm paying you like a monthly fee to use it because it doesn't work without
Whatever this company with like the largest capitalization like of any fucking corporation
Yeah, it's like no, I'm sorry like the wealth of like multiple nations, you know, like mid-sized nations
And the the standard for me at that point is it has to be perfect like it has to be absolutely perfect it and anything
Anything less anything where it's like, oh, we didn't think of that. It's like fuck you didn't think of that
You don't have enough people working for you then. It's like you have you don't I mean it's like there's no excuse
And I have no sympathy and I also think like to
This the whole
Cory's doctor's thing the whole nationification thing is right. It's like people get so focused on how do you extract?
every last penny out of this that like
They completely ignore the questions of like, how do you make this worth using in the first place and it's like
But they got you but yeah, well, that's the thing is because we're all trapped in in these these
you know
these environments or systems or whatever that like
They've they've made it like literally just functionally impossible to live without them, you know
Oh, I mean in the case of like your computer or your phone. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, and I've pushed down that road before like, you know, I got the dumb phone and and I've like, you know
Try to do the phone for free thing or whatever, but it's like just paying for anything
parking like yeah, any anything that I do
does require
The phone almost does require phone access. Yeah
Well, and it's and it's wild. I mean now kind of the proliferation of
Of just like like digital pay things, you know, where you
You just you know, you use your phone
I mean like there are like and that's something that I've just kind of like recently
Started doing you know, I mean I was still pulling out my fucking credit card and and you know tapping it or whatever like up until like a year ago
Because I'm fucking old
But it's like but I just you know recently started doing the phone thing and it's like oh this is convenient and and it's nice or whatever
But then I've been in like lots of places like, you know
Like when you go to like a big arena show now or or like to to a
Like a lot of events, you know, like like the new 500, you know, or whatever like races or whatever
It's like, you know, a lot of big events now are just cashless events
So so, you know, you if you want to buy a fucking drink
like a bottle of water or whatever like you need you need you need your phone and
And it's like that's it's like and I'm always just like oh, this is so easy
It's just so convenient, you know, like when I was when I was at Bathurst, it was that, you know
This is like all so like oh, this is you know, we're like usually when you're in another country
Like money, you know historically has always been like yeah, like you have to think more about it
You know because you're you're dealing in a different currency or whatever
Whereas this was just like a fucking whatever. This is great
But then like you think about like the implications of that of like
Okay, well, what about like sending your kid to the store like when they're fucking, you know
Seven just like buy a fucking candy bar for themselves or whatever
Or like like and and and just like, you know people who don't have access, you know
I mean, it's like you talk about casual society stuff
And it's definitely moving in that that direction, but it's like what happens to
you know people who
You know don't have access to a fucking
$1,000 cell phone or I guess I mean they're cheaper cell phones obviously but
That's that's like
I mean the fact that that is like a baseline necessity
To to just be you know participate in society at any just like as an economic actor
Get the most fucking fundamental level to buy food
And think about it think about to you like how you know, whatever the the 10 year old
The phone
That you're using at that point too. It's like nothing fucking works
You're constantly having to reboot reset like screens all fucking it's like it's like it's it's why and this is like
Everyone's been talking about this and this is like been out there forever
But like these the fantasies about like societal collapse or whatever just get so much more
More and more although I will say I think like that is kind of tempered like in the last year
I think like as things do you kind of accelerate towards collapse? I think like you feel like
Maybe the road doesn't look as good as it did
More bleak than a lot of them, but yeah, I just
It's a bummer I the other day
Fern sent me a
1991 Toyota fj-80
in New Hampshire that is like
burnt out
And it was like a Facebook marketplace that the fucking paint is all
Totally burned off like looks decent inside and it's not super rusty and it's 8,500 bucks
And I was like god damn it like like out in in a in a literal sense like was it in no
No, just just like figured it was just tired. Yeah
Boy, oh it's still up. Oh, it's sold. I mean, it was gonna sell right away, but it's like
Sitting in the Rivian looking at this. I was like, ah
This is
That's the thing the the appeal like in in in that oh
Yeah, oh
That looks fucking great
Yeah, I mean
The appeal of just purely mechanical things just becomes that much that much great
It's just like I can touch all the stuff on it
Well, and also and just like the fact of like like just like like I think about it in terms of just like like I
Want to fucking I want a car like with a key
Like with a fucking physical key. I want a car that like does not
Does not know where I am does not know where it is. Yeah, and it's not reporting my location to anybody else, you know
You
We're like taking it even more for our field from from tired pot. What's the day with the pot?
Maddie did did ask a while back in the chat
Pot is the pot is tired the car podcast for people who understand that cars are bad
With your friends or a carol Maddie Riley who's he's off-screen and off-mic today
But but with us in spirit and in the chat
Maddie just making you horrified. I know it's right now
No, no, no
Is there any car stuff we wanted to talk about explicitly our stuff we started talking about wagons and I think you are gonna you have that
Well, yeah, the Genesis G90 wing back. Yeah, so I just spent yeah
Yeah, it's funny like like in the in the chat yesterday
We're like, oh should we record tomorrow and I was like I want to talk about wagons
and and I just kind of offhand did Lee said
You know Rory, I could probably spin up a few hundred words about that Genesis thing if you know like
I mean alloy already ran like a feature about it explicitly, but I kind of had some additional thoughts and and
Rory gave me the thumbs up and so that turned into like 1300 words and me
But but there was a quote in that in that story from
From Luke Donker Velka the Peruvian Belgian
Creative what's his title?
It's like the main guy
He's like the head of head of design for for like the whole Hyundai group and and like he's like the the boss at Genesis
Like chief creative officer. That's what it is. He's a CCO
And and he has designed over the years like
Stuff like like aughts Lamborghinis and like the Audi a2
Which is a super
Cool cute little
Turn of the century
Kind of people mover ish
Compact thing
That you should look up if you're not familiar
And also my Hyundai Elantra. He is he's credited or at least that was that was
Under his watch. Yeah
Design that I have to say has has grown on me to a degree that that oh, yeah had not expected like I did not
When it first came out
But like I kind of I
Kind of get it now. Anyway
he said something about that that
So I feel like we we mentioned this an episode or two ago about the
Genesis did this reveal of
Like their their new magma, which is their their performance division
They're kind of inaugural
Little cute you hot hot rod, but they also rolled out like this mid-end of sports car and
like this incredibly
Sinister and sexy looking big
Station wagon based on on their existing
G90 kind of luxury car
big big kind of four-door
Mercedes s-class competitor
and
And this wagon is just like spectacular. So it's called the wing back and
And it's just a concept car, but it looks
Like, you know, and they actually kind of said yeah, we could we could build this and we probably will
It's just in limited numbers
And there was a quote from from donger velka basically saying something to the effect of like
Let me find it so I don't because it it just it's a little bit innocuous on its on its face
But I read he said with SUVs becoming commodities other typologies will become interesting again
and and to me in the context of
Station wagon
That that was really interesting because because I am a lover of station wagons
I've owned a bunch of them over the years. I wish that I'd still owned one
I think it's like just a superior automotive
format like just combines the virtues of a lot of other different types of cars
and
With with very little like penalty or compromise
and
But but but it got me thinking about like kind of just the history of station wagons how
You know for much of kind of I mean kind of post-war
us
You know car world
They were they were really they were you know, they were a big they were the the kind of default family family car
In a way that like, you know
You know compact SUV or CUV is now, you know, like you're Honda
HRV or CRV or whatever
or Toyota
Rav4
and
and
And it's like, you know, well, what happened so so I ended up writing writing this this this thing about that but
I thought it would be fun to maybe spend a little bit of time
Just talking talking about about wagons. I
You know, I have never owned a wagon
Really? Yeah, I think I've owned literally every automotive form factor except a
Wagon at this. Yeah, that's true. I've owned everything. I've had minivans SUVs
sports cars sports sedan
Hatchbacks
Pickup truck
Like a Jeep like a vector yeah, but never had a wagon
I actually like reading this article yesterday has got me thinking about like maybe that that time has come for me
I think like my
My previous like the reason I hadn't before is because I do so much
Truckee stuff where it's like I need to tow something or I need to
To you know, like last I don't know if you saw the picture when I cut down
Like 200
Walnut trees in the yard
There's a there's a I'll find the photo of it, but there's a picture, you know, the you know
The walnut trees that like kind of overgrow
everywhere they're like
I cut down
Literally, I did this twice
I filled the pickup so full with them
That you could not see the pickup and I had to crawl in through a window on the passenger side to get into the car
It was like how big are these trees? I mean, they're
20 30 feet. Oh, they're huge. So you're like you're you're so you're chopping down these big giant trees
And then and then like chopping them up
Yeah, yeah in the truck. Okay. No, no, I'm putting them in a hole
A 20 foot fucking tree. Yeah. Yeah, that's why you can't see the tree. I'll show you
Trying to picture this
You'll it's really a horrifying picture
But anyway, it's like I previously like would have used the GX and a trailer to do that, right?
but I don't use the Rivian for that stuff now and
It like it falls to the pickup. I have the F-150 so I really could get away with a wagon at this point
I think in a way that probably I couldn't have
Previously so like maybe maybe now is the time. I also am
Probably more broke than I've been in my adult life. So that kind of puts a wrinkle on things but it is
extremely appealing and I will say too like
There was a long period where I didn't get it where like I I didn't really understand
You know what the appeal of a wagon was and then I had kids then I was like, okay, that's exactly what the appeal it's like
dog luggage in the back kids in the middle
You know and not the huge penalty of
dragging around a full-size SUV like it's pretty obvious
Yeah, I mean it's it's basically I mean to think about a wagon is it's basically just it's a car. It's a normal car. It's a sedan
But just you know you you draw a straight line back from you know
From the roof to the back of the car and what that does is it buys you just like
You know just an exponentially larger
Carrying capacity and and that space is just is super versatile because it's just completely open
So you can stack shit or whatever
Um
And it doesn't cost you anything, you know, it's like like there's no there's no weight
I mean, you know negligible weight penalty
Efficiency penalty efficiency
And and and and and it just it it drives just like a normal car, you know versus like an SUV
It's like you you keep your kind of your low center of gravity. You don't
Oh my god
Dude, it just it just looks like you backed up into a tree into like a grove
That's all the walnut trees
That's amazing
Maddy, I'll send these for the the listeners
Sorry, yeah
So yeah, I mean it's just like like to me it's it's kind of it's like the best of all worlds, you know
Um, you know, obviously there are more extreme use cases and I do I do point out in the story that it's like
I mean the the thing that that initially knocked the the station wagon off its perch was was the the minivan
You know, which like in starting in the in the 80s with the the chrysler
Minivans which which were kind of a a revolutionary vehicle at the time because I mean
You know small vans had existed before but this is the first time that anybody had done it like just on a car
Platform. Yeah, just like, you know front wheel drive transverse engine just open opens up the packaging a ton and and it drives
Just like a normal car
And and so that does
You know, it's basically just a tall station wagon
But that that additional height does, you know, when you when you have small children
It definitely makes your life easier when you're having to strap them in or whatever
But um
Like that's the one advantage of of a minivan over
You know over a wagon it it does buy you some some extra space
But it you know and like I say, I mean there are more extreme use cases where I mean, obviously
It's not going to do everything that a fucking pickup truck can do
Uh, or like it'll do nine tenths of it though. Well, that's the thing is like, yeah
I mean for for for most people, they're you know, who are just using their pickup truck to like
The most fucking
Extreme thing that they ever do with it is just like throw a bunch of fertilizer in the back or whatever like a bunch of
Sacks of mulch or something. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, I gotta I need my pickup for this, you know
Like bro, you could just fucking do, you know, like all of that would fit. Yeah
in your wagon, you know and um
The what I mean, I didn't talk at all about about my personal wagon experience
It's not like huge, but but I did have that that puja
For a while, which was a 505 wagon from the 80s
total sweetheart of a car and and um
I did
That I left in in charlotte at the at this place that that uh, I mean it was like I still do on it
2000 yeah, I mean I still hold the title to it. I did look recently
uh, kind of with the the semi intent of of uh
uh
Seeing looking into it the the place that I left it at no longer exists
Oh
Well, so it's around somewhere so now you could now you have a claim to it. You can go get it. It's it's probably somewhere
I think it's probably in a in a junkyard
But uh, yeah r.i.p
um, but I mean fucking I mean
super slow
But but it's slowness kind of
Uh imposed on you like this kind of like this this kind of stately
You know mean like there's no point in trying to to hustle it
um, but it but it rode incredibly
You know best ride of any car I've ever owned
um
Would just swallow fucking speed bumps like you didn't have to slow down at all which is kind of super fun
um
And and I mean yeah huge huge carrying capacity the wagons are actually
Different from the sedans in that they they have uh
I think a slightly longer wheelbase and a solid axle didn't have independent rear suspension
Solid axle so that as you load the car up
Um, it doesn't change the the rear suspension geometry, which is uh pretty smart
um and and actually kind of like a fun car just to like to to uh
Corner, you know drive like a little bit fast
Like cornering wise. Um, I mean it's very uh, yeah, just just a fucking great vehicle
Had that had a couple of of sob 9 5
Like 2000s era gm era
uh big wagons
that um both uh ended sadly but um, but while I had them fucking incredible
Uh, just like a great fucking car at that completely like
Forced me to reconsider my anti gm era sob
uh
opinions and
Uh still to this day like drive that I did
uh from from here in rochester to
uh, I guess memphis to to make um
Uh album that became
Getting into knives right? Um
mountain goods album
One of the one of the best drives like of my life because I did that it was like it was like 15 hours
non-stop
But like I think I averaged like with stops
and not like not trying to
You know set a speed record or whatever. I was you know, like I was I was just you know sitting down to eat
Take you know, not not driving while I was eating
Taking regular bathroom breaks. Uh not pushing it in that way, but like with stops. I averaged. I think better than 70 miles an hour
So
Yeah, the whole way. I mean it was fucking awesome that car was such
Uh, just a great long range high speed bomber man. Uh, and just yeah would fit so much shit in the back
um
So comfortable so fast
Um, and then I had like my little my little mazda protege five for a while which was like total opposite just like, um
Like I realized after a few days of driving. It's like, oh no the car that I've owned before that this reminds me of is my fucking miata
You know, like it actually it it had that that kind of baked in character. Yeah, mazda
Just super direct steering very quick and responsive
Um, again, not not particularly fast, but um, but really just sprightly and possible and fun and
And you know almost like it's kind of like a quasi wagon
It's there's not like a ton of space behind the the rear seat. It's like a short wagon. Um
But you know, but longer longer than just like a hatchback
um
Yeah, or what I generally think of that way
Um, so like a mini wagon, but um, but yeah, just a great just versatile and
And friendly car that I enjoyed for for a number of years
Um, yeah, all of these cars like the the thing the thing that happened was
You know, we made this move to to minivans kind of supplanted the the station wagon
I think it's like station wagons just became unhipped, you know, it's like
um
When the minivan came along everybody flocked to that because they didn't want to
um
To be driving around the same car that their parents drove, you know, because that's not cool
Um, and then the same thing happened a generation later with suvs and you know, as you point out rory with the cafe stuff
Pushing everybody in the direction of trucks. Anyways
Um
We should we should really get into that in an episode. I think that was like a
Formative moment
For me like understanding cars is like
I remember writing it completely transformed the the
The automotive landscape in this country like to this day in ways that it were bad, you know
It's like this kind of well-meaning legislation that that just like that they fucked up
I well, and that's that really interesting story because I think like I remember writing a story about wagons and in minivans
um
as opposed to suvs and I was like
Super
Kind of annoyed at like why are we doing these crossovers to like worse at everything right then
then
Minivans and wagons like this doesn't make any sense like why is this
and I I posted it I think on like the old kinja thing where like you could post a
Post an article, you know post your own content or whatever and uh
This is like very new in my journalism career and it like Derek Kreindler
Who was a gelopnik contributor and who was writing for truth about cars? Yeah posted this this uh very smart guy
but posted this um
This post that I shared with peter yesterday
About like why that happened from a regulatory standpoint and it basically like
And this is like a great
kind of like
capsule view of like american politics because it's like the cafe standards
corporate average fuel economy standards
theoretically the idea here is to
um create
a
Minimum fuel economy standards so that cars become more fuel efficient and what it actually did is because like everything in the united states
As soon as you open up that lawmaking process
it gets hijacked by
lobbyists and interest groups
and so like it became
a
basically a way to incentivize
Larger and less fuel efficient cars and give an advantage to american
Automakers who are dependent on pickups over foreign automakers who are selling smaller more fuel efficient cars
So like our corporate average fuel economy
Uh system in the u.s
disincentivizes wagons and minivans which are actually more fuel efficient
In favor of larger less efficient vehicles because they they did this two tiered thing where we're basically
A light truck because obviously obviously trucks are going to be be less efficient and we do you know
You know there is a need for for trucks so manufacturers shouldn't be penalized for for you know
Supplying that that need or whatever
And trucks were held to a less efficient standard
Than than regular cars
but of course what that
What that incentivizes manufacturers to do is just turn everything into a truck because now we can get away with
With uh having them be less efficient and it doesn't like it doesn't impact our our
Our our average our our you know corporate uh average fuel economy enough you know
Standard that we had that we're we're forced to meet uh or else you know pay penalties
So that's why you know starting in the 90s
You know everything became a fucking SUV that's why you got the Ford Explorer and that's why you've got like the Chevy Tahoe and and those became
Um, those effectively like replaced station wagons and and minivans, you know the best example in
story is
The PT cruiser which was considered a light truck. It's like neon based
It is a car for all the world. It is a car
Right, but if you have two like off-road features, you can consider it
A light truck from right a standpoint and it's like so arbitrary and stupid
Yeah, and it's like and that's like
Credit where it's due it's funny because like you know as fuel economy standards became
tighter over time you did see
SUVs with like cladding
And like some kind of like off-roading type features get lower and longer to the point where now like
A lot of compact SUVs like the Nissan Leaf is a great example
But like there's a lot of them. Yeah, we're like, okay. That's a fucking car. Like there's nothing SUV like
I mean forever. It's up to the middle of my chest. Like it's not a car
The thing for me is just like forever. I've just been saying you guys
It's just a fucking station wagon
It's just a station wagon jacked up by two inches and with some fucking stupid stickers on it and some fucking like plastic around the wheel arches
But without literally a station wagon without the plastic and at a normal ride height you would be more fuel efficient
Exactly, right. It's yeah. It's just a wagon except dumber
Yeah, so it just it drives me crazy, but
But the you gotta sign off
I do in a minute. Yeah, but I guess we can conclude by by just saying that like to me that that donker velka
Quote it gave me hope
Yeah, because because the idea that
that like
that suv's
have become so ubiquitous
that that
They have really become, you know, like we now just they're just the standard. They're the commodity car, right?
It's not it's not an aspirational thing in any way anymore
and
it's not cool and
and and and and just like in the last year you've had this thing where like like bmw m5
The fucking wagons are out selling the sedans
Which is like completely unforeseen unprecedented. You've got the outie
rs6 avan
You know hot rod outie, which is on it's like outgoing year this this year
But sales of that thing are through the roof
And so there I feel like there there is kind of and and that's what I think what genesis is responding to with this
This wing back of just saying well, yeah, we could do one of these too
And the idea it's a subversive. It's like a car for perverts now
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right and and the thing is like if the way and and it's been so long like like that that that stigma
I think that that existed around station wagons like
You know in the 80s, you know where nobody wanted to be associated with their parents or whatever
Mostly car buying public at this point
They're not fucking old enough to remember that anyway
and and
And and nobody gives a shit, you know, it's like most people don't even like wagons don't even figure in their in their, you know
Because like they don't even it doesn't even occur to them like what's a wagon?
um, and and so the idea that like
Of of reintroducing the idea the concept of the station wagon
Into the the you know consumer consciousness with these cars these like
Like really appealing sexy premium prestige
Expensive i mean that's the thing with that fucking genesis man
It just looks it looks fast and it looks expensive. Yeah, and and um
And and I think that that's that's great because what it does is it it plants this this seed of just like
Oh, no station wagons are like this kind of aspirational thing and maybe it opens up some space
for manufacturers to to actually
uh, you know to create
demand down market, um, where where, you know, maybe you know
Normal, uh, you know people who aren't in a market for a six-figure car
Yeah, um, but you know, it's like hey if there's a fucking, you know, $50,000
like Camry wagon that I can buy that like looks cool and
um
And like gives me all this like extra space and stuff. It's like why wouldn't I fucking buy that?
You know, it's like I'd love to see that man
I'd love god if I could fucking buy an alantra and station wagon
Jesus fucking christ in a second and the thing like when I was in fucking australia. I couldn't believe it. There are fucking current generation
Subaru wrx station wagons that they've gotten other fucking parts of the world that we don't get here
What the fuck?
Why do we not get that? It's the regulatory thing. It's like that so stupid. Yeah, it's like there's no incentive for an automaker to sell that car
Yeah
All right, all right. I gotta dip out but um stay tired stay tired friends
Maddie, uh, you can cut in you saying stay tired from a previous
Yeah, yeah, feel free to feel free to dub yourself in at any point maddie. You you can you can kind of uh
Yeah, you're in church. Yeah, you're the boss
All right, awesome. See you guys later. Yep. You're about
You
About this episode
A lively discussion revolves around the resurgence of station wagons in a market dominated by SUVs. The hosts explore the luxurious Genesis G90 wagon concept, highlighting its unique design and potential appeal. They also delve into the historical context of wagons versus minivans and SUVs, discussing how regulatory changes have shaped consumer preferences. Personal anecdotes about past wagon ownership add depth to the conversation, emphasizing the practicality and driving enjoyment of wagons. The episode wraps up with thoughts on the future of wagons and their place in the automotive landscape.
Original notes
Whatever happened to making stuff that just works? We talk about obsolescence, scratch the surface on CAFE regs, and wax poetic about the most beautiful form factor you can buy, if you're lucky. PLUS! A sort-of update on the Peugeot 505? Your producer pal Matty experienced some technical difficulties during recording, so enjoy the edit and some nice Rory and Peter back & forth this week.
You can support Alloy with a membership here: https://alloymag.com/sign-up/ And read Peter's recent contribution to Alloy's Film Friday here: https://alloymag.com/the-best-car-movie-of-all-time/ where he explains his pick for the best car movie of all time.
Get Peter's new record Half-Staff Blues here: https://peterpeterhughes.bandcamp.com/album/half-staff-blues
Your producer pal Matty, who writes these, has nothing to plug except of course, our Patreon paid tier where all our extra-fun episodes go. support my wonderful co-hosts ty ty ty ˖⁺‧₊˚ ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
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