Erector Set Challenge update, Antonio's options for the Mustang. Show 61
Untitled Car Project Podcast
Erector Set Challenge update, Antonio's options for the Mustang. Show 61
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Car
Ford Mustang
The Ford Mustang is a famous sports car from America. The 1999 version has a V6 engine, which is a type of engine with six cylinders arranged in a V shape.
Term
five-speed manual
A five-speed manual means the driver has to change gears by hand and can choose from five different speeds to drive the car.
Part
3.8-liter V6
A 3.8-liter V6 engine is a type of engine that has six cylinders and is 3.8 liters in size. It helps the car go fast while also being somewhat fuel-efficient.
Term
ABS
ABS, or Anti-lock Braking System, helps prevent the car's wheels from stopping completely when you brake hard, making it easier to steer.
Term
power steering
Power steering makes it easier to turn the steering wheel, so you don’t have to use as much strength to steer the car.
Term
manual transmission
A manual transmission is a way to change gears in a car by using a stick and a pedal. It gives the driver more control over how the car drives.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can be.
Term
V8 swap
A V8 swap is when you take out a smaller engine from a car and put in a bigger V8 engine. People do this to make their cars faster and more powerful.
Term
six-cylinder
A six-cylinder engine is a type of car engine that has six cylinders. It usually offers a good mix of power and fuel economy, which is why many cars use them.
Term
V6
A V6 is a type of engine that has six cylinders arranged in a V shape. It's often used in cars because it offers a good mix of power and fuel economy.
Car
Shelby Cobra
The Shelby Cobra is a famous sports car from the 1960s that many people love for its speed and cool design. It’s known for being very fast and is often associated with racing.
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
The Chevrolet Camaro is a sporty car that people love for its speed and cool looks. It’s been around for a long time and is often seen racing against other popular cars like the Ford Mustang.
Term
V10
A V10 is a powerful engine that has ten cylinders. It's often used in fast cars and is known for its strong performance.
Term
sliding out
'Sliding out' means the back of the car loses grip and can start to spin. It's important for drivers to learn how to control this to avoid accidents.
Term
Fox body
A 'Fox body' is a type of Ford Mustang made between 1979 and 1993. These cars are known for being light and easy to make faster.
Car
Ford Cobra
The Ford Cobra is a special version of the Ford Mustang that is made to be faster and more powerful. It's popular among car fans.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that has been around since 1964. It's known for its unique shape and powerful performance.
Car
Dodge Viper
The Dodge Viper is a super-fast sports car that people admire for its unique look and powerful engine. It’s designed for speed and excitement on the road.
Term
independent suspension
Independent suspension means that each wheel can move up and down on its own. This helps the car handle better and makes the ride smoother over bumps.
Term
5.4 liter
A 5.4 liter engine is a big engine that can produce a lot of power. The number tells you how much space is inside the engine's cylinders where fuel and air mix and burn.
Term
V8 engine
A V8 engine is a powerful type of car engine that has eight cylinders. It's known for giving cars a lot of speed and strength, making them fun to drive.
Term
V8
A V8 engine has eight cylinders that help it produce a lot of power. It's also shaped like a 'V' and is often used in performance cars and trucks for better acceleration.
Term
differential
The differential is a part of the car that helps the wheels turn at different speeds, which is important when you go around corners. It makes sure the car handles well and drives smoothly.
Term
driveline
The driveline is the system that helps move the car by transferring power from the engine to the wheels. It includes parts like the driveshaft and axles.
Term
ECU
The ECU is like the brain of the car's engine. It helps control how the engine runs by managing things like fuel and timing to make it work efficiently.
Concept
project car
A project car is a car that someone buys to fix up or change. It's usually a fun challenge for car lovers who want to make it better or different.
Term
SN95 Mustang
The SN95 Mustang is a version of the Ford Mustang made from the mid-90s to early 2000s, known for its modern look and better performance.
Term
head gasket
The head gasket is a part of the engine that keeps everything sealed tight. If it fails, it can cause serious engine problems, like overheating or oil leaks.
Term
clutch issues
Clutch issues happen when the part that helps change gears in a car isn't working right. This can make it hard to drive or change speeds smoothly.
Car
Ford Escort
The Ford Escort is a small car that many people used to drive because it was cheap and easy to use. It was made by Ford for many years.
Car
Ford Focus
The Ford Focus is another small car made by Ford that many people like because it drives well and uses less gas. It has been around since the late 1990s.
Term
Kelly Blue Book
Kelly Blue Book is a website that helps you find out how much a car is worth. It's useful for buying or selling cars, giving you a fair price based on the car's condition and mileage.
Car
Ford SN95
The Ford SN95 is a type of Mustang that was made from 1994 to 2004. It features a more modern look compared to earlier models and has different engine choices.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast and stylish sports car that many people dream of owning. It’s known for being very powerful and is often used in races, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Car
Mercury Cougar
The Mercury Cougar is a car that was made to be a fancier version of the Ford Mustang. It’s known for its unique look and is a good choice for people who want a mix of comfort and speed.
Car
Toyota Fj
The Toyota FJ Cruiser is a cool-looking SUV that is great for off-roading. It has a unique style and is built to handle tough terrains, making it popular among outdoor lovers.
Car
Toyota Land Cruisers
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a tough SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road adventures. People love it for its strength and reliability, making it a great choice for outdoor activities.
Car
Hummer H1 Hummer
The Hummer H1 is a big, tough SUV that was originally made for the military. People like it for its ability to go anywhere and its unique, bold look.
Car
Chevrolet Suburban
The Chevrolet Suburban is a big SUV that can carry a lot of people and stuff. It's great for families or anyone who needs a lot of space for trips or work.
Car
Lotus Esprit
The Lotus Esprit is a stylish sports car from Britain that many people admire for its speed and looks. It’s known for being light and quick, making it fun to drive.
Car
Ford Mustang Gt
The Ford Mustang GTD is a special version of the Mustang that is built for speed and better handling. It shows how Ford is always trying to make their cars faster and more exciting.
Car
Ford Bronco
The Ford Bronco is a tough SUV that people love for off-roading and adventure. It’s known for being strong and can handle rough terrains, making it a favorite for outdoor enthusiasts.
Car
Dodge Challengers
The Dodge Challenger is a powerful car that looks cool and goes fast. It’s part of a group of cars called muscle cars, which are known for their strength and speed.
Car
Ford Model T
The Ford Model T is one of the first cars that many people could actually afford. It was simple to make and helped start the car industry as we know it today.
LIVE
What kind of car would a baby sheep drive a Lamborghini?
There you go. Welcome to Untitled Car Project.
Hello.
Show 61. I'm Rob Spring.
I'm Greg Gonzalez.
Jeremy Mould.
Today on the show, we're going to talk about car projects.
And it's all car projects all day long.
But before we get to that, hit follow.
Hit like. Share it with your friends.
Jeremy, I'm sending you an email to share with you.
Even the ones you don't like.
Rob, I'm still going to share with you.
OK. All right. Very good.
So yeah, today on the show, let's talk about some project cars for sale.
We're going to touch on our project builds.
We're going to do a little halfway check-in.
And it turns out, Grant hasn't done any of it yet.
Well.
No, I'm not making fun because shoot, I missed one completely.
And I just didn't have time to do.
So we've been busy.
We took some time off.
We went and raced cars.
We built some other stuff.
Speaking of, Grant, you've been helping somebody work on their car.
Let's touch on that.
Yeah.
So recently, we've been working on Antonio's car.
Tell us what Antonio drives.
So for our newer listeners, Antonio is a really good friend of mine.
And he drives a 1999 Ford Mustang with a 3.8-liter V6 five-speed manual.
Yep.
What you're talking about is basic.
As basic as you can get.
No ABS, no track stroll.
It does have power steering, which was pain in the ass.
Sure.
Now, we've talked about this car and the potential that the car has and the kind of things that
he should do to make it competitive, quote unquote competitive.
Now, he bought the car just to autocross it, something that he can build into.
Well, quote unquote.
Grow into.
Grow into.
That's a better.
But the biggest thing was this.
He has no overall arching goal for Antonio is to eventually get into a Gen 1, Gen 2 Dodge Viper.
Yeah.
That's what he wants to get into.
And his first step to get that was because he was used to driving front-wheel drive cars
was to get a rear-wheel drive car and a manual because he's never driven manual before.
Something cheap, something easy, something you can work on, something not too much horsepower
because you don't want to jump into, say, a 700 or 500 horsepower monster as your first
manual car.
Yeah.
That would be a fun experience.
So his was buy a V6, learn it, go up from there.
Sure.
Okay.
Yep.
So the troubles, and I use that in quotes that we're running into now, is he is ready
for a V8.
He's ready for a horsepower boost.
Yeah.
And the trouble comes with that is because he is now starting to become attached to that
car.
Yeah.
We've talked about this before, the things that he needs to do or would benefit from,
I should say.
Yeah.
You know, with that car, if he's going to stick with it, you know, we've talked about brakes
and suspension and a V8 swap, that was one of the deals.
That's the biggest thing.
So, and now he's at the point that, yeah, he's run out of steam with a six-cylinder.
He's run out of steam, especially with it in complete stock form.
Yeah.
So the problem is with this, is there's two direct directions to go.
The first one is keep the current platform he's got with the V6 and upgrade slowly over
time, which you and me have talked about brakes, blah, blah, because you can't do that, you
know.
Or the other option is sell the car completely and get into a Cobra or a V8 or something
of the same era or something compared, similar, like a Camaro fish body or like a Liger and
S197 Mustang, something of that nature.
Right.
Why doesn't he look at a Fox body?
I know he loves those.
I think he has.
Just Fox bodies are getting way more expensive nowadays.
Are they that much more though?
It doesn't feel like it.
Just from, I've looked at a lot of Fox bodies recently for other reasons.
I will say this though.
They're pretty trashed.
Yeah.
I know of a good one that's sub 10 grand though.
But here's the thing.
If you're buying a one that's about 10,000, let's say, why would you buy that when you
could buy just say a better S197 Mustang?
Is it really better?
Here's one thing that our listeners and I've told you guys about this in the past.
Ford engineers claimed, this was something recently you found out, that they claim that
when they designed the S197 chassis for the Mustang that it in stock form is stiffer than
a fully caged Fox body Mustang.
Yeah.
I knew that they were just from talking to David.
You know, I knew that there was a lot of issues with the Fox bodies with having to
stiffen them up and there's a bunch of work that needs done to make it better, quote
unquote better.
So that's an issue.
They are lighter.
So I'm going to challenge this.
If he went to a Fox body, it's not as stiff.
It's going to be a little more sloppy.
He's going to have to drive it.
Okay.
Yeah.
If he learns how to drive that with the ass sliding around, he's going to have a lot
better time driving a Dodge.
But he's already learned how to drive the N95 and that's also based off the Fox body
model.
He's trying to graduate to a V10 that has a fuck ton of power.
Okay.
He's going to kill himself in that car if he doesn't learn how to keep the back end from
sliding out in front of him.
I guess, but if you're planning on putting more power into it, wouldn't it be the same
thing as going, in fact, you'd have more power than a Fox body.
Those Fox bodies only made what, 210?
So you, your family has a Viper.
Yes.
You also have a Cobra.
Yes.
The Assans on those cars love to try to catch the front end, right?
Yes.
Okay.
If he's building the car, the S193 or 911, whatever.
S195 is what he's building.
Okay.
So if he's trying to build that to be fast and it's not going to get to the point where
there's so much power that the Assan is trying to catch the front end, he's not going to
learn how to drive a Dodge Viper.
Okay.
I don't think you, you can't go, it's not an apples to come.
No, I don't think so either.
So he's, he's building into a car, he needs to learn how to drive more power anyway.
Yeah.
The point was whether a Fox body was comparable to an S197 or not, right?
Yeah.
So which, which platforms better to build or get into?
It's, it's not comparing those to a Viper because they don't compare.
Yeah.
No.
He needs more power to play with.
And that's the first thing.
Yeah.
But my point is the Fox body is, it's going to be more sloppy.
It's going to, yes, it's not going to drive like a Viper.
Don't get me wrong.
No.
But it will teach you how to keep that.
To a degree.
Are you saying that's better to have for him to have, especially as a build that he wants
to get to a Viper, to have a car with more power but don't upgrade suspension, make it
sloppy.
Right.
So it.
Not, not completely.
Not completely sloppy, but I think in order to upgrade a Fox body, it takes more work
than the one 97 that I think is where in the suspension.
Yeah.
That's where the argument is.
So I'm with Grant in just going to a one 97.
However, it does way more.
That car is heavier.
Yeah.
Are there more options for building the one 97 than the 95?
It's arguable because the one, the, the SN95, which is his, the round body Mustang from
the 90s, nearly 2000s.
They've got the ability to run into anything the Cobras did.
You got independent suspension there.
You've got the 5.4 liter you can throw in there.
You've got the older SN95 of the 96 and 98, which is the five liter, which is the body
panels that have it.
So you got air ducts and stuff.
Okay.
So the other question is, is he willing to go down that road?
Does he want to build that?
Does he want to run a 5.4?
Cause that would be cool as shit.
That would be cool.
But is he willing to go down that road?
Cause that's a whole nother ball of wax and expense.
Yeah.
You know, that does he really want to build that?
Or does he just want to buy something and run it as it is mostly?
Yeah.
And then graduate again.
So the biggest thing we've talked about has been cost in the past and recently.
So in my opinion, if you have a V6 and you want to get a V8 out of that, if you have
the space and time, I don't think you can get better than buying a wrecked GT Mustang
with the V8.
Say the ass ends wrecked or whatever and swap all the parts.
I think that'd be us.
That being said, he does not have the room for a wrecked one.
No.
So he is currently looking at what it would cost on the secondary market and for new parts
as well for V8 swapping from that generation of Mustang into it.
Because it's no headache.
It's no trying to, okay, does this figure, it was all from factory.
What would fit there?
It swaps go.
It's pretty easy.
Correct.
You know, but it's, it is definitely a time consuming because swapping a V6 to V8 means
you're swapping differential, driveline, transmission, brakes, suspensions going stiffer.
You're dropping in a new motor, new wiring harness, new ECU.
Yeah, it's the whole thing.
It's a project.
Yeah.
So, so he's basically looking at the expense of all of that versus he sells the car for
maybe 1500 bucks, sells the parts that he's purchased or returns them for a $1,500 rebate.
Yep.
Taking that $3,000 and buying something that already runs.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, and even if he was to say save up a little more, so $3,000 from what the current market
chose, you can either get a higher mileage, same generation Cobra, not a Terminator Cobra,
a basic Cobra with like around 300 horses V8.
Okay.
And or mostly convertibles.
That's too bad.
Yeah.
And or you can get a high mileage, my generation Mustang, 2005, 2009 Mustang V8 even the manual.
But those are pretty, yeah, four six, but those are pretty rough.
It's when you start getting to about four and a half to six grand.
In that price range, you can get a very good either, and we've done this before, the Camaros
of the same era, the SS, you can get the, you know, and a good GT Mustang of either era
because the SN95, the 90s to 2004 Mustangs, for a currently a decent body one is about,
I'd say three and a half, maybe for a decent one, two and a half for really beat up one.
And, you know, just that four and a half to five means you're going to have whatever you
have.
It's going to be in a good starting project, whatever you have, if that makes sense.
Less headaches are going to be why, if you're getting, if someone's getting rid of something
for a thousand bucks, you know, they're getting rid of it because of some kind of headache
they had.
Head gasket, blue clutch is gone.
Yeah.
You're going to put work into it.
Yeah.
Now, if you can narrow that down, maybe that's a good deal.
It's a race car.
So, you know, you're going to work on it.
Might as well know what's there.
Yeah.
If you're willing to do that, you can save yourself some money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you want my opinion?
Yeah.
I'd love to hear it in the know.
He would do.
I think in his situation, because he doesn't have space, he's borrowing space from you
to work on car.
He does have a space to store it though.
He does.
Yes.
Okay, cool.
Not to wrench on it.
All right.
I think in his situation, he's probably better off selling what he has, returning the parts,
and buying new, because he doesn't have the time in a space to work on it.
Normally, I'm like, I'm all about a project.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Let's swap some motor stuff around, let's, you know, do this and do that, build it.
It's a car he likes.
He's attached to it.
Yeah.
So, building it, you know, part after part and over time, I think that's great.
That's what project cars are about, right?
But for him, he doesn't have the space to do it.
So it doesn't make sense to go down that road.
I think he's still probably going to have to work on something, but it could be a driver
at the same time.
So I don't think it makes sense for him to do the swap.
No, I think graduating from one to the next is probably the best idea, in honesty.
Okay.
My opinion, so here's how I look at this one.
I think, honestly, you're gentlemen, both right, I think it's better for him if he
was to sell that and then buy a V8 of some kind.
That being said, and that starts with the beginning of it, he has gotten attached to
that car.
As a car, he does now actually want to keep.
Okay.
So here's a thought for that.
Okay.
Because it's having some clutch issues right now.
I'm sure you can get that worked out and fixed.
He sells the Escort?
Does he have an Escort or a Focus?
Focus.
Yeah.
He sells the Focus.
Okay.
So then he has more money to buy a race car.
He uses the current Mustang as his daily.
So he really likes that Focus.
But on top of that...
You can't love everything.
No, I can't.
I think the hardest part is because the way he's got his Mustang, it's a manual.
Two things about it.
My opinion, a manual as great as a Warrior is great when you're having fun.
If you have to sit and stop and go traffic every day, you go in and stuff.
That's not the best.
I understand.
It's not the best.
But wasn't he worried about his Focus clutches going too?
Yeah.
That's a whole different show we'll talk about.
It is.
We've already touched on it, but I mean, get out from under it now.
Yeah.
He does love that car.
And I think, and I've talked to him about that, is in terms of the clutch problem, buy
another transmission, have it solved before and so when it does go, we just swap in the
new transmission.
Right.
Yeah.
No, that's a whole other issue.
But it was just a thought like he could get more out of the Focus and then put that
into...
I don't know how much you get for those Focuses.
Oh, I don't know.
Probably...
How much do you think?
Actually, I'd like to hear both of you gentlemen what you think it would come.
Maybe...
I'm going to look it up.
What year is it?
I don't know what year it is.
It's a 2014 Ford Focus SE sedan.
Yeah.
It's super basic.
Yeah.
And that's a little fine.
It's probably a $5,000 car.
It might be.
I was going to say between $35,000 and $4,500.
Yeah.
I mean, that's right in the ballpark.
Yeah.
It's probably a pretty high mileage or whatever, but still...
No, it's a high mileage.
I think $70,000 or $80,000 miles.
It's all right.
For that year, that's pretty low, I guess.
Yeah.
But even still, if he got $4,500 bucks for it, return those shocks that he got for the
other car.
Sell that car.
Is it $6,000?
Now he can shop for a Camaro or a better Mustang, if that's what he wants.
And there you go.
Race car parts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm looking up in Kelly Blue Book right now and it's taking forever to load up and
why it's doing that.
There we go.
Stan.
That's what I'm looking for again.
My car's value.
Google was saying this car's value, if I could find it going through, because it is not doing
right on this one.
Anyways, I'm just going to go with what Google said.
Google said those cars value, generally you can expect to find them at a price around...
Bless you.
That was fun.
He's allergic to us.
Sorry about that.
Good catch.
Okay.
Google says that you can finally general them about $2,000 to $7,000.
That's a huge range, so $4,500 is not out of the question.
I think I've seen these cars sell for about $3,500 and that's mainly because of the infamous
automatic.
Yeah.
If it was a manual, different story.
Those cars, you know, hold their value and stuff.
Anyway, it's a thought that I'm sure a road he won't go down but it's just something.
His Mustang, being a daily, it doesn't have ABS and being in, we're in a wet weather.
Roll of the eyes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're of a different generation.
Yeah.
You know.
A bunch of pussies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, again, sports car, no problem, but it's a daily car.
You're driving every day.
You get comfortable and used to it.
It's fine.
I knew it wasn't going to be something that he would do.
Yeah.
I'm just throwing it out there.
So the other thing, let's just say going back to the Mustang, that he's keeping it, it's
been the engine design.
So again, he's swapping, he's looking for, seeing what a factory would all be in, see
because that'd be the cheapest, right?
The other options for a cheap and expensive route has been also thinking about swapping
in, say, a 4.6-liter, like I have in Liger, a three-valve or even the potential of a Coyote.
Coyote's kind of pie in the sky.
Right.
You know.
I think a 4.6 swap in that car because it's substantially lighter than yours, right?
Yes.
I think that'd be pretty cool.
I think it'd be good.
Yeah.
And you know, I don't know, you're the Ford guy, I don't know how that all bolts up in
there and how much transmission in rear end and whatever he'd have to change, but it'd
be kind of cool.
So think of this, they had the same kind of rear end, an 8.8-liter or 8.8-inch and the
GT versus my GT, okay?
The transmission that was in them, I have a TR-6060 with a remote shifter in my Mustang.
That's not the factory one, though.
That's factory.
Well, mine's a TR-6060, but the original one was a TR-3650.
There you go.
Okay.
That was in there, but mine's a remote.
In the SN95, the standard transmission was a TR-6060 with a shifter on top, again, so
far all the same.
The difference is the engine.
It still was a modular engine, the 4.6 that was in those SN95s, but it was a two-valve
rather than a three-valve.
So theoretically, everything should be about the same length.
It should line up.
The only difference should be mainly its driveline length.
And you can get that custom pretty easily.
Yeah.
So if the TR-3650, if that's the same, I mean heck, even if it's just difference on
bellhousing, I've got to use bellhousing and we just pop it off and put a new one in or
go the Junker, get one.
But they should be the same, they're pulled up to it.
I think that'd be kind of cool.
And the 4.6 is a fairly inexpensive motor, yeah?
Yeah.
To get.
We were looking at a good motor from a good Junker, low mileage, I think was like 1400-ish.
But I've seen them on Facebook for like 800 to 600 dollars.
Yeah.
And you're talking 300 foot pounds, sorry, 300 horses, 320 foot pounds of torque.
Yeah.
You know?
I mean, affordability, yeah, but how long is it going to take to do that project?
So I think from, if it was that swap, and it was from firewall back, because everything
is the same as the other Mustang, right?
Okay.
Goes the same in.
It's the engine and the wiring harness goes in there.
Yeah.
The first thing that needs to be figured out is if there is a piggyback ECU harness
that could be adapted to it.
So for example, with my Mustang, in order to put a Coyote motor into it, you can do
that with the standard ECU of my generators for Mustang.
And they make a wiring harness where you put a Coyote ECU next to it, and it just piggybacks
onto that.
Yeah.
So they talk to each other and everything's happy.
Correct.
Yeah.
Now, if they can do the same thing with the previous generation, which I would assume
because of how wide Mustang's been and how long it's been out that that has been already
done, then it should be just put a V8 in there and swap it over.
I think the hardest part would probably be, on top of that would be plumbing, would probably
be the biggest issue.
Yeah.
You know?
Because you have to figure out radiator and all that stuff.
Running the harness, you're plumbing.
I mean.
Well, the harness.
Brakes.
So the harness.
Exhaust.
So the exhaust would be the other big one.
But the harness on the S197s, they have multiple harnesses, but the one for the engine's on
itself.
It unplugged right at the end.
So when you drop it into, like, say, the engine bay, it's all right there, all three
plugs, and you plug them into the main wiring harness.
So as long as that can be piggyback, that shouldn't be.
So say you can't get a piggyback harness to.
Make it all talk happy.
Do you go then aftermarket to Holley or whatever and go that route?
I don't know if it's easier to do that way or if it's easier just to take the S197 ECU
and trick it.
Because realistically it's talking to the engine, so it would just need to know on top
of that the gauge cluster going through and the safety features in the back.
Possibly traction control too, but those Mustangs also had traction control, so you
just hook up the same sensors because, again, it's two front wheels and one in the axle.
Are they the same type of sensor, though?
All effects?
If they're the same.
Cool.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe that works.
Yeah.
And then if I'm not mistaken, the Mustang uses a.
How difficult would it be if that, if you can't trick it into thinking it's the same
car?
Yeah.
Yeah.
How difficult would it be to take the entire harness from the S197 and put it in?
I don't know on that one, because what you're talking about going then is, and this is the
one thing that I've also talked to about going onto this, is with his V6 Mustang, for example,
he's got a wire harness going through for the V6.
Yeah.
The V8 one, I've told him, I believe on the V8, the wire harness is the same as mine where
it's on the engine, and then there's that second one that goes throughout the car.
Right.
If the one that goes throughout the car is completely different than the V8, that's a
whole other project.
You're taking the entire dash out, the back of it, everything's coming out.
Well, if you're going to replace it completely, yes.
Or you are in there with a meter and you're trying to pin out everything, which is the
other option.
And so if that's the case, in terms of the S197 going in there, I don't know how much
is going to be needed to put in there.
What you need to know is if somebody's already done it.
Yeah.
That's the research on that one.
If somebody's already done it and they've either one figured it out, how to do it, you
could figure out if there's a module, a go between module, if you even need that, what
plugs in, what doesn't.
I mean, I'm sure that information is out there.
What's interesting is just how much mustangs go together.
I've seen swaps of full, for example, modern mustangs, the S550s, being swapped in the S197s
from the 90s, and they just fit in with not much modification.
So I wonder if painless wiring has a kit for that.
I mean, somebody out there.
So here's the one thing I want to ask, because I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet,
was LS swapping.
How much difficult would that be?
Because you would have to full standalone ECU harness.
You'd probably want to put it through that.
Well, there again, there again, there might be an in between module somewhere because
that happens.
Yeah.
Right?
There's people who are LS swapping mustangs.
Yeah.
I don't know how often is it enough that they've already come out with this kit that's like
here, plug this in there and plug that in there and you're good to go.
Yeah.
Maybe.
I can't answer that.
Yeah.
The thing for buck power, though, is that the better route to go, you think?
Yeah.
Because you're getting without question.
You're getting for what's the lowest, cheapest LS motor make for horsepower without many
mods for it.
Oh, how much horsepower does it make?
Oh, I don't know.
I don't know.
Like 385?
LS1.
Throw yourself an LS1 in there.
Yeah.
I mean, I thought it was like an LS3 truck.
LS3's are pretty...
They're more expensive.
I mean, they're more expensive, but you're going to get a little bit more horsepower.
Are they?
I thought the LS3, they had the truck motor version that was iron and that was a cheap
one.
It's not an LS if it's an iron block.
Yeah, I know.
It's an LT, maybe.
Might be the...
They made a truck version of the LS motor.
I know that and that's a cheap one.
Yeah, but you don't want a truck motor either.
No, you don't want an iron block if you can help it.
But if you go for, let's just say, an LS1 or LS3 from Performance, like from a Corvette
or Camaro, you're still going to be spending coyote money.
You're spending four grand on that, correct?
But you're getting LS power and LS reliability.
So, your standard LS1 is 345 horsepower without modification.
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But again, it comes...
That'd be way more than what he has now.
Yeah.
Well, and so with the 4.6, I think of the 4.6 is the easiest, least expensive route.
That's the one to go.
So, here's a question.
The two-valve original that was in that era mustang 4.6 mean?
Or you mean the 4.6, again, my mustang, the three-valve?
Three-valve has more power, right?
Yes.
And it's probably same motor mounts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then go with that.
I would leave that up to you because you would know which motor is best reliability
versus horsepower versus cost, right?
You're going to be able to help in with that.
So, if it's the two-valve, cool.
Go that route.
If it's the three-valve, go that route.
You've...
You know, options are out there.
And the harness can't be that much different between the two.
There's going to have to be something...
Maybe a little bit.
I know the biggest thing between the two of them was...
So, why they call them two versus three-valve?
Obviously, there's three-valves and one has two-valves.
But on top of that, my generation of mustang was the first time they introduced cam phasers,
variable valve timing, and they did that on the intake side.
So, I know that is one major difference between the mustangs and ECUs is the original ECUs,
I don't believe had the capability to change variable valve timing.
And so, how that may be one thing that may get different on the piggyback.
So, for example on...
I would stay away from it if you can.
Yeah.
Well, why?
Because you can get more performance by changing your timing on the car.
Okay.
Because it's a hassle.
It is definitely a hassle.
Yeah.
Okay.
That would be my only reasoning is to stay away from it.
But bringing back the piggyback system we're talking about, I just realized...
So, the Coyote also has variable valve timing, mine has variable valve timing, Tonio's doesn't.
So, I wonder if there is no piggyback because of that communication.
Well, you might have to turn that off.
That's the other thing is you can lock out those phasers too, but I don't know how much
power you will lose.
Typically, people will do that if you're starting to put cams, a bigger intake on the 4.6 because
the phasers then start getting in the way.
But if he's not doing it on budget, it's a whole different...
Yeah.
So, even if you had to lock that out, the jump in horsepower that he's going to experience
from what's he at now, 130...
I think it's...
I think knew they claimed it was 190.
I think with the years and it's probably like 150, 160.
Okay.
I had to guess.
So, he's doubling it.
Almost.
Yeah.
Almost.
If he's going to lose horsepower going without the variable valve timing, maybe it's not
quite double.
Maybe he's at 270 or 80 horsepower.
I mean, that's a big jump.
A big jump.
100 horsepower.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like adding a supercharger.
It was probably even better than that because you don't have, well, supercharger, no lag,
but...
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I don't know.
It seems like the most affordable option is that route.
It's just a matter of making it happen.
So here's the other question.
Kind of a daunting task.
Here's the other question.
I'll ask you guys.
Sure.
Sure.
Is it worth, then, before any, if he's going that route, to forego any suspension brake
mods focused on just drivetrain with that car?
No.
You think, go drivetrain first, then go into the, or go suspension first, then into that.
He, well, since he already bought the suspension, keep it, put it in.
He's going to need it with more horsepower.
He's going to need it.
Not only that, he's going to need some braking mods.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's going to have higher speeds.
He needs to be able to control the car.
There is also one other factor.
So he bought his for a coilover kit that is for a GT Mustang, okay?
Okay.
Of the same era.
So, the problem is, is if he ever decides to go into the IRS system from the Cobras
into that, that suspension can't be used for it.
Yeah.
Well, that's a whole other, like, that's, he's leveling up if he goes with the IRS,
right?
So, then you take that suspension back off and you sell it on the use market.
You get a little bit out of it, not what you paid, but maybe half, right?
Yeah.
And then you have to upgrade again.
Yeah.
But, you know, the IRS system is not cheap.
So, going down that path is a whole other level of modifications.
And that's just kind of the way we do it.
Well, that's the other thing.
It's not cheap, but if you can buy, and well, again, if he sold it.
The only reason he will sell that is if the problems we're having currently with the
clutch and a few other things ends up being worse than it is, then he will sell it, okay?
But why?
Because if he's wanting to motor swap it, the problems you're having now don't matter.
Yeah, and I've brought that up too on that one.
Because if that was, it's still drivable and not, it's, what's the word I'm looking
for?
It's, it's, it would be, it would be sellable and get decent out of it.
It's just, there's some problems that may come up eventually with it.
I don't want to say on the air.
But if he buys, for example, a Cobra for three and a half grand, three grand, again, those
engines because especially they're the four six, they're not the four valve that's not
supercharged, not as many parts in my opinion, because they're so limited on it, they still,
they are parts availability for big power, but not for just kind of basic power.
You already get a Mustang with independent suspension in the rear.
So I got a question.
For the same, for 3,500?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
What motor does that car have?
Which one?
The current Mustang.
Six.
The current Mustang?
Yes.
Current Mustang is a five liter is the biggest one.
No, no, no, no.
The one he has is a three point eight liter, three point eight liter V six.
Correct.
Okay.
So let's talk about an older car.
Okay.
The 1990 Mercury Cougar XR7 came with a three point eight liter V six.
Yep.
Supercharged.
Yep.
And we've talked about putting that on his car.
So that car claims two hundred and ten horsepower, three hundred and fifteen foot
pounds of torque with the supercharger with the supercharger.
Yeah.
And I think the base model made about one forty one sixty.
Right.
Without it.
So if he's got, we'll say one fifty five and you put.
He doesn't.
If it, if it.
It was one ninety from factory new with the Mustang.
No way.
One ninety.
How is he getting one ninety out of the three six.
It's a three eight.
Yeah.
And the Cougar is getting.
Two ten.
No.
Seven year difference.
Without the supercharger.
And then Google it real fast.
One forty five you said.
Again.
That's what I think with power loss over time.
Yeah.
No.
I mean the Cougar is getting one forty five without the supercharger.
Oh.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Okay.
I mean it would be another option.
Right.
Yeah.
Because you'd supercharging it.
Supercharge it.
You get more horsepower.
Maybe not quite V eight horsepower.
You don't have to replace the entire suspension.
You don't have to replace the entire brake system.
You don't have to replace the rear end.
You don't have to replace the drive lines.
I mean.
So that was a huge talk we've had about going in and that would be a cheap way going into
it.
Right.
The difference in going that one would probably be let's just let's just say when you put
the supercharger and let's say it's now making two thirty foot horses.
You know probably make more maybe maybe less whatever just save that one.
Okay.
The T five transmission will handle it.
I think they're good for stock with everything about two hundred fifty horses.
It has a seven and a half inch rear end open differential.
I do not know what that will handle.
But he doesn't have to replace it now.
If he grenades it.
Sure.
Then we replace it.
Do it then.
So do you think then it's better to do the supercharger swap as a start rather than V eight because
that's been the thing that has been.
Well let me ask you this can that motor handle a supercharger means the same motor it's clearly
not if it's making one ninety and the stock one that he's talking about was one forty
five.
Yeah.
It's not the same motor.
It's got the same displacement.
Yeah.
I'll have to look up what I've seen people swap those supercharges on these mustangs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just can the internals handle it.
Yeah.
You know if you're putting that much more another fifty horsepower can the crank handle
it.
Can rods handle it.
The biggest thing is doesn't he be tuned.
Yeah.
Because I don't need to be tuned.
It's taking in more air.
Well it's not.
Well can the ECU even handle that's what we're saying.
Yeah.
Do you have to replace injectors.
Do you.
Right.
Well I don't know if you need to replace injectors because if you can just say take
it all off of the.
The.
What was it called.
The Cougar.
Cougar.
You know if you take all the what we've looked up in the past has been a supercharger intake
intercooler injectors and you know put it all directly on there.
You know what else is needed on that you know but the here's the other thing let's just
say he's making again two thirty horses.
Is that enough horses or is it still time for V8 because you're spending let's say
maybe a hundred bucks a thousand bucks for the supercharger swap you're making more power.
But it's still not V8 power.
I mean it would take him from here to here maybe not here right.
I mean.
Yeah.
You're you're splitting the listeners could totally see that you basically you're going
from two we'll say one fifty horse okay to maybe one ninety horse instead of what's
a yeah two hundred and fifty horse so I mean you're going I think you're going somewhere
in the middle you're going somewhere in the I think don't waste your money before six
is eight hundred bucks to thirteen hundred dollars you're spending a thousand dollar
on the supercharger plus all the bullshit you have to go through to make it work right
yeah I would just go with the new I think it'd be good as if you were that was your
first car like if this is like two years ago for Antonio or a year ago yeah if he was
just on the car got the base down need a little bit more bump had especially be his own place
that'd be something to tinker with over the winter with no I mean as it sits now we could
take the rear end out have it done the weekend it's drive again take a transmission out have
it back in new and new transmission have it drivable again because again all those will
fit into this current car with the motor yeah you know I will say that it's a good thought
but I still think the V8 swaps my my mom had a Cougar XR7 when I was a kid in nineteen
it was either 90 or 91 and that car mm-hmm it had miles of pedal in it so it was fast
that car was fast and it it when it came on it just kept going yeah so I mean I don't know it's
kind of a toss up I I have mixed feelings on it yeah well and there's there's also one other
thing we haven't talked about too the older 50 the older one from the early Mustangs will fit
and those engines even though it's in there makes less horses than the four six that came after it
there's tons of there's tons of upgrades for those five ohs so is that an iron block though those
ones were iron blocks but the fact is you can make some serious horsepower with them so that's
another option if going that route do you buy I think it comes down to cost yeah you know at
that point choosing what platform you want to build but what's the cost right now like if you
can get a four six for less than a grand mm-hmm and and actually get that project potentially
running with not much more you know depending on your wiring harness and that kind of stuff yeah
because you'll have to do with this the same with the 50 yep what's the cost of a 50 that's
doesn't need rebuilt yep because that's the other thing it's like how much work does it need
yeah I think that's what it boils down to yeah maybe you can build into it but but with with
that car and stuff 300s the ultimate goal for right now sure should he build that car up so keep it
at 300 that's the goal now there's no stretch mark after that's not once we're done in five years
three years we're gonna make a 500 horsepower car is it this is what it is either keep it sell it
move on to say the next episode is for that or is well right his ultimate goal is the viper
yeah is he does he want to do another step in between does he want to go Corvette and then viper
or does he just want to be done with it and that's the thing is if he goes that route and because
at this critical moment picking the engine is gonna determine where also the next step as sure
because if he says go a coyote like the new coyote motor into it at 400 horses that engine you
can take up to the moon for power sure but I don't think he can he wants to afford that true
but if we're talking super budget right here yeah well the other budget can if you're going that
was a truck coyote motor you know for 1500 $2000 a little bit more than four six not as much
horses only 360 horses 380 pounds torque but that's still a lot yeah you know yeah and they
have been done in those cars sure the reason I tell you or anybody not to use a truck motor is
because you don't have the revs and maybe that's not really important you have more torque so
that's cool you do have the bottom end yeah exactly you're gonna get more torque out of it but the
truck motors were built for torque not revs yeah how are you gonna drive your car yeah I mean you
adapt to what you have right so you have to keep your RPM below 5000 or whatever in a truck
motor whereas the the car motors you can rev them to 6500 yeah so it depends on how you want to
drive it I think yeah I mean if you're driving it as a point-and-shoot car it might work but yeah
and in autocross I think you get away with it I think it's fine yeah you're not wanting to take
that car on the road course though right now so so yeah big plans we'll have to keep our
lot of options a lot of options I honestly still think if he upgrades that car he's still gonna
have to graduate to something else before he jumps to the Viper and I think the next step him you
have talked about after that is a I think a Corvette a C5 see I thought he was looking at that
already we were looking at that just trying to find the lowest price one no that's my car oh
okay would you like tell our listeners about it well I kind of touched on it last week I'm looking
for the cheapest manual C5 I can find he's trying to fight hard for it now hard top hard top
manual hard top C5 yes cheapest cheapest doesn't matter on color no I don't care does it have
yes does it matter on title condition hmm well that's a good question I would prefer a clear
title okay and it's and they're out there yeah for sure I did see one recently that didn't have a
clear title but it's up against two other cars that do at the same price and I'm like why would you
do that so I don't know I'm not super opposed to it but I think I'd prefer clear title does it have
to run well hmm yeah that's a big thing because it can have some issues I have the ability to fix
have gremlins well every car is gonna have a gremlin not necessarily it so I have seen
C5's online not all that long ago that ran yeah but if you got them up to speed they were having
issues so yeah see I've come across one or two that were they had some issues totally fixable
stuff but you know the people don't have the time or space right fix I have both yeah yeah so and I
have experience with Corvette so I have a question yeah have you checked the police impound lot I have
not I just thought of them now because like that would those don't way to get really cheap you know
like like the it could be lease auction one he needs a title though well hanging through that yeah
eventually you do I mean they give you a police auction bill a sale or whatever and you can get a
title after that it takes some time yeah do it it doesn't mean they're reconstructed or anything
that's a good thought I haven't looked into that at all because I wonder with the Corvette being
that old and people probably give it a piece of mind I bet you can get one that would maybe
maybe the cheapest maybe yeah you know just gotta be in mind maybe there was a dead body and at
some point I'm okay with that as long as I smell like a dead body yeah probably not Corvette you
know hey you never know yeah I mean you never know but chances are no dead body in the trunk
not in the trunk maybe in the passenger seat well I know you put golf clubs in the back of those
cars barely but yeah anyway that's what I'm looking for so we love to ask why why the Sun
need of a C5 yeah okay I don't think it matters much really I want to help my son get into autocross
yeah and he cannot afford that right now but I don't I've kind of wanted a C5 for a while yeah
and this is as good a reason as any yeah and the car doesn't have to be perfect you know I know
it's gonna have either damage or you know needing of repairs or whatever and that's okay it's just
an autocross car so anyway that's why okay nice you can have that be as daily no no no no not at
all so you're still gonna have a drive so you're gonna need a motorhome and a stacker to go with
it no no no I need a another flatbed I need a flatbed trailer anyway and he can tow it with
his truck so that's it's it's a little bit future I'd like to have it ready to go by next race
season I know it's not gonna happen this year yeah but anyway I'm looking we'll see what happens
I'll keep you posted again how come me if I don't mind ask if you don't mind me asking have
him just jump in your car do you think it's too much for him yes and I'm a little protective of
my car to be honest okay it's not a starter car okay yeah that's fair yeah and so I mean
eventually maybe if I see that you know he's got good driving habits or whatever for race car
stuff yeah maybe eventually so it's eventually gonna get down to Fox or should Brad what oh oh you
have some rivalry yeah I don't know about that we'll see anyway so that's I'm I'm casually looking
for that so we'll see how it goes okay I found a couple but I'm not sure if the last two questions
price that they're at I am willing to pull the trigger just yet last three questions but they're
all second to that does the maintenance condition matter in terms of brakes tires clutch all those
where items matter for what you buy not entirely it's kind of weird the ones that I've looked at
I've been like yeah that's all that you know they're in condition that and I haven't looked at it in
person but I'm like okay I can I can deal with the little things that are there okay tires no I
don't care brakes they're gonna be gone through anyway clutch clutch would be nice if it worked
fine so I don't have to do it right away yeah but you know I the second they have to be done
eventually is any body panel damage of any kind is that fine it could be beat up the front M8
new bumper maybe the back has some sun damage I'd prefer one that was not that beat okay yeah
and then lastly scratches or whatever one thing and it's case by case right if if everything else
about it is really good but it's got some damage maybe I'll consider it yeah and depending on the
model it is some of those body panels are not that expensive so the last because it's being race
car interior matter at all because it's gonna be something he'll drive on the road to the track
or he will not drive it so track it's not a it's not street we're not street driving it to the track
it'll be trailer okay interior is not super critical because I don't mind putting race seats
and something or you know I don't I don't want to smell like dead body yeah but it's not super
critical mm-hmm yeah the ones that I've seen have hold the car that's not that big a deal right
yeah they've got pretty good seat wear and that kind of stuff and like I don't really care about
that yeah yeah okay anyway we'll keep you posted okay so let's let's move on to the next segment
okay let's look at some project cars okay before we jump into our project are exactly okay exactly
you ready I'm ready Jeremy's going first okay so the first one I found is in Milford
center Ohio it's a 1974 Toyota FJ Cruiser okay 74 you said 74 cool yeah it's cool so the thing I
like about the land cruisers of that era yeah you could drop a chef 350 in it and not change
any of the drivetrain did you bolts up it does you can get a adapter adapter okay but what I'm
getting at is the axles and drive lines and all that stuff the transmission transfer case they
don't need oh so they're pretty stout this one's in some pretty rough shape as far as paint and
stuff like that but it looks like it's got a pretty straight body a little bit of rust
seats probably need to be redone one of my favorite rigs looks like it does have a little bit of
tread left on the tires mm-hmm it's currently sitting at 1250 bucks oh well it does not run
ah there's oh wait needs battery so unsure of mileage and unsure if it will start okay
1250 bucks it's good price yeah okay great I'm trying to research on this because this is very
interesting well since you're still researching yeah like I have it up I'm just it's kind of
okay and first I'll just say what this is so this is a 1999 Jurassic truck it's not Jurassic Park
oh for fuck's sake just listen to me Jurassic Truck Company Hummer Terex Edition it was a
kit that goes on the Hummer and there's only 115 which which Hummer is it going it's on a original
H1 H1 Hummer okay I was trying to research what does apparently they swapped it not just this one
but also I think that includes uh to a Chevy 350 into into the diesel motors diesel yeah
still trying to read through it's the truck version not okay yeah um it means still got a
convertible top and stuff and still looks like a genuine Hummer yeah this one they want 17 grand
it's in Texas burning uh burrowing Bertram Texas um it's got let's see 351 350 Vortech with
Edelbar out carbs on it jigs uh dual plane intake and headers new wiring is installed needs uh
fuel lines to be straightened up I guess it sits on an 80s suburban frame as what says
transmission is a th 30 50 350 with a 4x4 onto it um so an 80s suburban frame that was not
original to the H1 weren't they I wonder if this is I won they just took the body kit
off yeah I wonder if the Hummer is on top of the Chevy I don't know they're so wide well here's
here's another well here's another one on cars and bid which should give us some more info on this
one on what this actually is okay you know because anyways um it's it said let's see they say um it
looks a lot like a Hummer but it's not it's a replica called the t-rex that was built in by a
short-lived company here the Jurassic truck company based in Texas when Cheryl turned heads
at work goes it's built on a robust mass produced uh underpinning boasting a Chevrolet source 3.7
small block v8 um which is defined parts for the t-rex includes half doors removable soft top
third row seating and six passengers for off-road so essentially it was suburban it was a kit that
turned it into a Hummer interesting very interesting 17 000 they want 17 000 for it again it's uh
looks still like a project bright red you have essentially a Hummer without being a Hummer
and you know um yeah you got the usability of Chevy parts into it
oh it's cool 350 so yeah yeah all right so the one that I have well one of the two that I've found
uh this is a Lotus Esprit so as a kid always really liked the Lotus Esprit so this caught my
eye that's it's a it's not a project car it's a little more expensive than that but I thought
it was cool you don't see them come up very often this is 1994 Lotus Esprit in Brule Wisconsin
I'm hoping I'm saying that right okay um red with the light tan interior it's just a gorgeous car
actually it's got 33 900 miles on it the current owner has had it over 10 years and it's got all
the major service done um I'm not sure if this particular one because it doesn't say in the
listing it's an Esprit s4 but I don't know if it has the which motor it has in it yeah it doesn't
say on here but it is a manual transmission it oh what is it let's see it's um 10 000 miles no it's
got 33 000 miles on it what is that only 350 of them made in 1994 so pretty low numbers
interesting okay it's pretty cool um decent looking car as far as what he says about the um
upkeep and that kind of stuff it looks like everything's been serviced properly
HVAC is a little bit weak but that's it it's available on marketplace for 50 grand
and I don't know I feel like 50 grand for a Lotus Esprit is pretty decent
what is it is it turbo 94 it doesn't say anything about the running gear which is kind of a bummer
yeah because they made non-turbo versions it did but also didn't they make and I don't
I'll show my ignorance about the Lotus a little bit they had four cylinder versions
and eight cylinder versions yeah turbo in the four cylinder I don't I think they had a turbo in the
eight also but I don't remember and I'm sure it was different years um that those were available so
I wish there was some information on this post about what motor it has because I don't know
yeah I'm looking up right now just to see what's in it yeah over the years the performance of
sprees four cylinder engine was increased from 148 horses to just under something uh in and in 1996
the 3.5 liter twin turbo v8 was added okay it was 96 this when they went to the v8 yeah
so that may be uh well well this is a 94 so it's likely a four cylinder turbo it's
integrated with this one they were fast the four cylinder they were super fast no I got to ride in
one once yeah 94 and it was quite the experience I thought it was pretty cool anyway 50 grand if
you're into the Lotus I feel like that's kind of cool 33 000 miles is not very many does it
it's an s4 an s an s4 the s4 engine had the same power output as s e at 264 horsepower
so yeah okay that's good on that one and that I think yeah interesting okay yeah there were
just a little bit lack of information on the post but uh like I said it's a cool car so
me don't see very every day it is cool yeah kind of neat all right that's that was that so I stuck
with the theme okay what I felt weird right yeah so I found another Toyota Land Cruiser okay this
one is a 92 so it's an 80 series uh it's got locking differential 35 inch tires a 5 inch lift
um
it's reliable it does have 235 000 miles which is okay because those motors were actually pretty
bulletproof okay um does have some flaws a little bit of rust all in all in pretty good shape it looks
really straight from the the pictures but like I said a little bit of rust under the back window
stuff like that this thing's really nice um does have some interior damage stuff like that
it is $8 000 which is pretty low actually from what I've been seeing because my wife and I are
looking at uh one that she can drive to and from work and take the dogs so um this one is in
Titusville Pennsylvania okay 237 000 miles automatic that's not bad yeah nice right on a lot of
potential there yeah 237 000 miles that's that's a couple that's a couple miles yeah we drove one
recently that had um 235 000 miles and uh it was a little gutless a little more gutless than I was
hoping uh it was a couple years older I think it was a 90 um and it wasn't as good in a good
shape as this one so I don't know I think there's a lot you can do to them though okay does have an
inline six so my next car I wanted just to check this out to see what's going on I found this very
very very very interesting it goes with again the theme that we've been talking about so I've got in
Liberty Hill Texas I'm not sure about this one maybe I'll go with the other one the other one
was running so let's go to Austin Texas it's a 2003 Ford Mustang GT with a cobra swap motor
into it well there you go for $3,500 swaps already done swaps already done already into it yeah
full uh Ford Mustang GT with cobra engine long tube headers x-pipe uh car has leaky gasket for
long tube headers on the right side okay so that just needs to be fixed um but it's already done
for $3,500 it's some of the panels are in a little bit rough shape and what not you know but
it shows that you know it's not bad like hell there's another one I found uh Liberty Texas
saying it's not running but has a a terminator swap and broke down all the parts they spent on
and how much it was yeah uh and they want $2,000 for it hmm so too grand yeah
where is it it's in Liberty Hill Texas it's quite a commute yeah but they can be found
you know can be yeah and these are ones with already done on it the one that was done uh
the earlier one I said the 2003 one has 90,000 miles on it uh which is nice and the one uh that is a
2003 okay um for 2000 that one says only has 60,000 miles onto it 68,000 miles on the cobra
motor specifically oh on the motor yeah I was gonna ask if it's chassis miles or motor miles yeah
okay so um but yeah those are the two I found okay my last one is a four Bronco
it's the 94 version nice so we're getting into the more rounded front end it's got the
you know and the built-in headlights I am I'm very partial to the late 70s early 80s you know with
the the round inset um sealed type headlights yep um but we're getting into the 90s you know
as far as restoration vehicles and this is still a nice Bronco it's obviously the full size
so that would be like the uh OJ style OJ body style yes I like it is not white
no it's kind of a seafoam blue um but it's really straight and I thought well damn that would make
a great project truck the body is in really good condition the door panels are in really good
condition um there's one little crack on the dash pad and the seats could probably use a
reupholster because they were like that cloth velour whatever material um it's got center console
instead of uh you know it doesn't have a bench across because I know some of those came with a
bench seat in the front so this has got the buckets it could use a carpet a kit uh it does have
the back bench seat that looks pretty good obviously you'd want to repulsor that too to
match your front seats yeah uh it's just under six grand in Chippewa Falls Wisconsin
it is an automatic which you know for a for a fun vehicle that's okay yeah um it does not say
what motor it has in it uh I'm gonna assume that it's the 351 that was pretty popular for those
vehicles um yeah it would have been a either a 302 or a 351 right right and I'm you know full-size
Bronco of that era probably the 351 the Windsor motor likely let's see yeah the information it gives
pretty minimal but as far as a project truck for 5900 bucks you might be able to get it for less than
that too all the windows are in good shape I don't know I think that'd be a really good one
that's a really clean for Bronco yeah yep that'd be worth picking up nice that's what I got that's
what I got what do you got anything else no the other guy okay I don't okay all right so what we
want to do at this time is we want to talk about some other project vehicles yeah so we set out a
challenge a few weeks ago to build a project vehicle from scratch from scratch from scratch
no nothing not buying it from as a kit not buying a vehicle and then adding to it or
resto modding it this is building from all aftermarket available parts so we kind of want
Jeremy can you change that screen we kind of wanted to do a check-in now Grant hasn't started
his yet because he's been busy and that's fine absolutely fine so let me ask a question before
you go too deep do it do it mm-hmm how in depth do we want to go into what we found or what do we
want to go into minus the what we're putting into it maybe a cost like here's where we're at
yeah maybe I think done yeah yeah I kind of see what you're meaning we can we can touch on
where we're at with cost I'm fine with that it doesn't really matter what you've looked at so far
that's I think where we what we should touch on and I mean I want to give a percentage of
what we think we're done yeah so the the vehicle I chose you know I was given the Chevy product
basically muscle car package right mm-hmm I decided to go with Nova Chevy Nova okay from 68 to 74
wow I chose that because speed tech performance has a huge amount of product for that vehicle
as far as you can buy it basically an entire frame setup suspension spindles you know
a arms everything and that whole kit you know that gets you off the ground pretty good quote
gets you off the ground if you put tires on it mm-hmm it's not cheap I tell you what that's
one of the things that really I don't know if it shocked me but surprised me a little bit how
expensive it would be to build a vehicle like this right and you're you're looking at the first
component yeah well it's a it's a big component it is a lot of components all put together because
this track time package that I I chose is not the top of the line one but it's not the bottom
either right and it did come with you know your basic frame cradle front and rear suspension
a arms steering package the rear end and all of that for just under $15,000 so it's a pretty big
chunk but you get a lot of parts with it so you know and then you can go through on speed tech
site and select all these other components that go with it just to get you a little further into
your build and I think what it came up is just just over $24,000 with all these extra components
I'm not going to name them all but there was a lot of accessories that had to do with engine
mounting and body accessories and good grief the steering options what was the most expensive
sway bars of that of those extra pieces yeah probably the the rear end yeah rear end option
with the nine inch housing axles in the true tech true track component for 3400 bucks okay that was
an add-on yeah everything else what's this one headers I am bought headers oh nice just because
I could click a box and here yeah there are $2,000 I could probably find those cheaper somewhere else
but there you go you know you tell them what motor you have and they will provide headers
that work with the frame right that's the key right there right that's hard exactly oh you're
going to have them custom made if not right because buying headers for a small block 350
is not the same as buying headers for a LS that are going to fit that frame right yeah
you can do it through them and boom there you go okay went went with the willwood breaking package
front and rear rotors and calipers total cost of about 3400 bucks those universal rotors because
I'm seeing so many holes in them wow with that cap that one looks like that one looks universal
this one not so much but it's just a screen grab I got for it yeah okay I selected a LS427 so a LS7
motor a long block so it's got all the accessories already bolted to it $18,000 yeah that's pretty
cheap basically add a harness and a bell housing and a trans for 625 horses that is way cheaper than
I thought it was gonna be right that's not bad at all I went to holly for the LS harness kit
and the dashboard kit that goes with it you know add another what is that 4000 just over
four thousand dollars 4300 bucks so that's just the gauge cluster wow well the gauge cluster
seven uh 1800 bucks and then the wiring harness with ecu is 26 now is that one that will fit
to the nova or well they're not cars the wiring harness is not that's not mean the dash the ecu
no you'd have to make a custom okay enclosure for the dash okay yeah
tr 60 60 good old tr 60 60 you bet you why not right yeah for the LSX
um four thousand bucks off the shelf wow that's actually not for brand new yeah brand new that's
a that's a good price and that's the key to this is we can't buy used parts unless we absolutely
can't find the part right yeah there it is 60 60 I had to add you went you went the carbon route
I did uh well it was only 600 that is insane to me that says my eyes are a little blurry but you're
sure it's not just an aluminum and they wrapped it with that that's fine I don't know carbon just
makes it stronger yeah yeah just it just looks good it adds speed mm-hmm it's not red so ring
and pin and gear for 180 bucks I went with three seven gears yeah and oh yeah I got into the
steering column I started putting other components together for just under 400 bucks for a steering
column and this piece actually had this steering shaft in my speed tech shopping cart oh wow yeah
and I think I'll scratch that out because this one's this one's cheaper yeah the one from Jags
so the question I have I'm kind of surprised it's not on here Rob why is there no clutch chosen
I haven't got there yet I know but does that mean you're like really diving in and like you're
taking that that was wanting to think about or are you just gonna go with what you just
just haven't got there yet yeah I mean this is all just stuff that I've I've the time that I had what
I had gotten through and that kind of stuff and that was something that we were going to talk about
is yeah forgetting components would be super easy especially because you don't have your hands on it
you know you're building a checklist out of your brain like what am I gonna need for everything
yeah and like Jeremy had mentioned what about all the nuts and bolts to put all this together
with right fuck I gotta go back to the store I haven't even got to that yet here's one of
a lot of people forget is your fuse box yeah sure he lays yeah well yeah and I'll have to look at
that wiring harness like does it it probably doesn't come with a fuse box but you'll need that yeah
you know and voltage regulator turn signals and on this and that and you know there's so many
little tiny pieces parts what do you think right now without because you're not done with your project
what is this whole value of just what you've got just what I have so I was just thinking about that
too um goodness what am I 24 there three three that's 27 there's there's another 20 so I'm at 45
another two that's not 49 there's 52 yeah I'm at about 52 to 55,000 just with the stuff I have
in my cart and that's the body panels too right I have no body panels I have chassis and motor you
know running gear and it's not even complete yet like you said I don't have a clutch in there
I haven't done wheels and tires though which is funny I did select them but for some reason
they're not in here so I must have forgot to copy them over it's I didn't even think about the
fucking tires and wheels yeah you know they go 24 inch with rubber bands I was telling Rob I've
two pages of stuff on on paper already right yeah and this is just like okay I'm brainstorming what
components do I need right and tires is not tires are not they're not here right they're not here I
got I have axles on here I have drive lines yeah yeah I totally did select them but I just spaced
putting them on my list I guess but yeah it'd be super easy to overlook something so you know
we'll go through them with fine-tooth comb and kind of nail everything down I haven't you know
that was just a quick add up just looking at the list so 52,000 and I don't even have a rolling
chassis I will say we jump into Jeremy's though because of how expensive just say yours is yeah
there are shops that do this I know and they're in most of them are restamads the yeah but they
start with a donor yeah that's what I was gonna say is either well so here's about ones that do the
carbon fiber bodies and stuff like the challengers we've been saying come on let's do that you know
shops will do that with this one the uh I mean the only way you can get priced down is you get a
wholesale on that which is not cheap already right well I think if you're building it from
absolute aftermarket scratch you're gonna there's no cut price cutting there's no way to cut that
you can't I mean I did choose a package that was probably more expensive than most but I chose it
from a reputable dealer yeah um the only way to make this cheaper is you buy a donor car and then
you start replacing what you need to right not what you want to wait till you see how much I'm at
all right let's hear this a lot yeah you so take over the screen there if you want yeah let's jump
over to mine okay so I'm not gonna go down yet I want to read some of the things that I have on
this paper first okay your diary yeah and then we'll talk about what I have kind of already up there
I don't want to go through everything too too in depth because I think we'll go through all that
later yeah but like okay so on the two pages I'm gonna blast through this really quick I've got
frame body engine transmission transfer case front axle rear axle wiring driveline seats dash
carpet gauges I have no windows okay yeah that's another thing no wheels yeah uh page two I have
brakes front and back headliner headlights tail lights cab lights door assemblies mirrors and
paint and like oh you're missing so much stuff oh man and that that was like I probably sat there
for an hour thinking of this brainstorming that yeah and then as I'm doing that I'm like
thinking all these other things and as we're sitting here talking I'm like
fuck yeah what about the nuts and bolts what about the the shifter lever yeah steering wheel
the yeah you know the easiest way to break this all down so you don't forget something
you pull up a parts catalog of your car yeah of every part that's from from the factory
yeah okay how about your place all fine let's go back to the body right yeah I ended up writing
cab fenders inner fenders hood grill radiator support bed door handles yeah I mean got the
door handles or the fucking locking gas cap yeah exhaust or all the little tiny nicking I have it
oh I did write engine down but I didn't do exhaust yeah I'm gonna put a cab let me put a caveat on
this challenge we're doing I think a better one by the end of this who is gonna also have the most
complete car that's yeah I mean we can we can definitely try we're gonna forget things oh no
try to look at that but that's a 100% I am gonna forget yeah yeah 100% I know I will too but okay
so I mean all right you put a gas tank in it whether you're right I mean you pick the gas tank
yeah silt cell or you know a stock replacement or whatever you forget to put the filler neck on it
what about all the fittings yep the line oh yeah oh yeah so I would be surprised if we get through
this under 200,000 I'm just gonna say yeah yeah I've got probably easy build because building a very
basic model T that might be the easiest thing to fucking build I just thought of that right
right yeah since he hasn't started I was I mean I was thinking like it was supposed to build a
Mustang or something I will say for a listen well you said Ford my just say Ford you know
yeah I like to work I know it's a pain in the ass but I my plan for the listener was a I do plan
on doing a 69 Mustang okay nice yeah that's a good year yeah okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna
we're gonna go Mach 1 yeah I want to go like something like that and just see what I could
build with that I want to see what's availability but that's sure cool plan oh that's cool okay
I'm gonna tell you what I picked and why okay okay I picked a 1973 Chevy K10 pickup chat's crying
no I picked it because of Chad so Chad focuses more pre-72 72 and older right yes and the C series
not the K series 67 to 72 is his yes that's his bread however he did just pick up a four-wheel drive
yes he did he did he did pick up a K yeah however most of his bread and butter is the C series and
it's pre-72 yeah so I picked the 73 which is a square body and I really like this body
body style um I know I'm not even close to being done and I am at it at an atrocious amount I wouldn't
pay a fucking the amount I have on there for in law yeah and you're not even I'm not even near
close to being near so let me tell you what I have I have a frame it comes with a lot of components
okay um it does not come with everything I have the cab which does come with some extra components
the floor the firewall the hung doors and stuff like that uh I do have a hood radiator support
upper grille front fenders inner fenders uh the front hardware kit I did two sets of I don't have
to go with I don't know if I'm gonna go with fleet side step side flat bed or flat bed I am kind
of leaning towards a flat bed because I do like the look of them but I don't know if you want extra
homework you can always get a tow truck bed no yeah no it's a it's a k10 so yeah it's a little
light duty for that yeah but just with those components I mean yeah you don't have a lot
there I don't have a lot here you don't even have a running gear now hold on let's go back
in the chassis that I picked I do have LS motor mounts uh factory fox factory suspension I have
13 inch brakes for front and back I've stainless steel uh brake line package it's got an atlas
transfer case it does have that's it does have a front and rear axle um Dana 60 front or Dana
60 rear Dana 44 front um it does come with the gears okay it does come with the spindles
the brakes are already installed wow pretty much have a rolling chassis it's almost a
rolling chassis minus the tires and wheels that I completely forgot about yeah okay um
that was not a cheap component you put 24 on yeah mines double that yeah it is yeah literally double
that but you have you have oh being a four-wheel drive you have a bit more hardware yeah that needs
to go with you know being transfer case and you got front and rear axles where I just have spindles
yeah and you know a arms so it's a bit oh and uh the fox suspension it is set up to actually be
able to run it off-road yeah okay a little bit of desert running nice um so I'm gonna tell you
my total is right now we're at $73,100 wow you do have some body panels though you've got your cab
and and stuff like that you don't have a motor selected yet I don't I'm just saying transmission
so that that motor alone is gonna push me over a hundred what motor are you thinking I it's gonna
be an LS okay I am gonna put an LS in it I did pick the LS motor mounts in my chassis kit so
pick the one Rob did copy his homework I mean well no I didn't want to 427 it's not really a
off-road motor but actually well here's it would work oh I mean it would work yeah well here's
a question to ask you guys yeah so both you guys have picked chassis's that are no they're after
market did either of them claim how much torque or power they can hold no because that's a big
I'm sure the speed tech one yeah is rated I didn't copy that into my deal yeah but
because when you're having so much horsepower you can twist frames and stuff like that sure
can I mean and the one that I chose is the track attack package yeah so it's designed for so this
is track use that's awesome that's really cool I'm sure that there are specs in there for what
for our listeners we're looking at the chassis of Jeremy's this one it's amazing it is fully
boxed in yeah Jesus and it's a legit suspension it will take a beating and I don't think it'll
have any problems with an LS I can see why it's 50 grand yes scroll down what's it saying that it's
gonna let's see I don't want to go through it okay I think it's I think it's we'll go through it
more in depth when we get there yeah but it's crazy yeah I mean it's got freaking hubs it's I mean
it's set up ready to go put a motor and transmission on it and I can drag it up yeah drop a cab on it
some fenders and boom we're we're good as gold yeah anyway that's really cool yeah but no but
thinking this right now so let's just say with motor gonna be at over a hundred grand yes we're
talking the same money as a loaded out brand new any pickup truck right now
well by the time my truck my truck right now if I was to go buy it
or Rob's truck if we were to go buy them right now we'd be at 105 110,000 yeah
at least yeah yeah with with the leather the heated seats the cooled seats or a brand new 2026
f2.50 yes yes you know which is you know or yeah that's just but you're not even done with your
build I'm not even fucking close to being done and I'm almost a hundred grand yeah I mean that 200,000
dollar estimate yeah I know it'll be tight yeah I mean if I try really hard I might be able to keep
it under I don't want you to I want you to put it together the way you want to build it and I want
to see what that costs yeah I mean yeah I haven't looked at body panels for mine yet so I really
don't know what that cost at the moment yeah but then you know you got to think about all the interior
and all the everything else that goes yeah headliner the dyne bullshit everything yeah all the screws
to fucking put it together I have to say this gives me from the cost value and for putting
stuff together again haven't even started yet but seeing what you guys done this was a whole new
perspective and respect for companies like factory five and super performance building
kits that is the exact value they have that's exactly what I thought of too like you can go buy
a GT 40 kit not complete but really close like a hundred grand I think it's less than that is it
yeah yeah so but regardless you've got a full car interior motor all axles brakes
yeah wheels yeah panels I bet ages well yeah the ones that I was looking at was they didn't come
with the motor yeah that's pretty much it right you know for 70,000 yeah I bet once I put the paint
on it that I'm thinking I mean that's gonna be another 10 or 12,000 dollars yeah I'm gonna cry
on mine well I mean here's here's nothing we've got a crayon yours we've talked about in the past
with the factory five what is the co-brother entry level code is 15 grand right for the base kit for
the base kit yeah and that comes with there's chassis suspension no brakes though no engine right
no running you get an interior it doesn't come with the interior I think so oh what I'm saying
it's a pretty basic car let's just say all into it you're going to be in 30 grand into it
when you put your own components into it I'm gonna have two thousand two or three thousand
dollars you're 50 or 60 okay regardless it's still less than this she weighed cheaper than
yeah exactly you know so anyway I think it's a good exercise to really look at what it costs to
put one of these things together if you're using all aftermarket parts now yeah think about that but
it also makes you think about the guys that do resto mod work or restorations of any vehicles
this is why it costs so much yeah components are not cheap and then you know if they're doing it as
a business labor is not cheap people should get paid people should get paid for their expertise
you know don't go to a 20 dollar an hour mechanic because you're going to get 20
dollar an hour work yeah so that's a that's a big deal nobody likes to have to pay that bill
but these guys are professionals and there's a reason they get paid you know the money that they do
yeah I don't know stuff's expensive I think this is a neat exercise to go through I'm anxious
grant to see what the Mustang comes out as I know you're very thorough like you're gonna be 100
hours into just picking I need to you know I was lucky to spend the time that I did on this already
because I've been super busy but I'm anxious to get back into it and start you know finishing out my
build and and finding the components and also surprisingly the stuff that I've found so far
has not been that hard to find yeah I will say if there's a listener listening out here that's
really used to Chevy Camaros it'd be really interesting to see if he was to build one from
scratch huh you know yeah yeah I'm not you know and I think Jimmy I'm thinking of a guy
that might be named Jimmy that has got a lot of couch time right now because he had knee surgery
last week oh yeah I forgot about that maybe two weeks ago but um Jimmy I challenge the
yeah build yourself a Camaro out of brand new parts I feel like the Camaro's gonna be a lot
easier source parts than what we're going to most of the Chevy stuff is yeah do you know I
choose things because you don't see a lot of novus mustangs have catalogs of parts no that's
true but the one thing that I've noticed about Mustangs and Ford you can get that for engine
suspension brakes blah blah I think I'm gonna have a hell of a time trying to find body panels
no I think zero yeah zero percent I'm with him you can buy an entire body I had a Mustang catalog
it was sitting here on you remember the the two ammo can looking things I had sitting here when
you guys first started showing up sitting on top of that I had a Mustang catalog that was an inch
and a half thick it had everything from chassis body kits interior motors and I'm talking the
stock motors like the 289 yeah well if it was an inch and a half thick does that mean it was lower
down from two inches yeah yeah but it had parts for you know the gen one gen two and gen three yeah
all the way up the Fox bodies yeah no I think you can find yeah everything it'll be interesting well
and the biggest thing on this for me for the Mustang why I want to do this one too is we're
talking crazy numbers 100 grand in Jeremy's build we're talking over 50 grand a year's right
right mm-hmm Mustangs especially let's say if I decided to go a crazy route 429 boss sure
whatever clone because people do make clone Mustangs absolutely if that will be cheaper
than buying an original one that'd be interesting to note yeah yeah yeah for sure you know yeah
because like say if you buy a boss 302 and you you build it to almost factory spec or even cloning
of it you know and you're in it 130 let's say even 200 grand yeah you're getting a brand new
boss 302 right and buying a one like from 1969 with zero miles aren't close that you're gonna spend
like 200 300 400 grand because again low low mileage car right never driven right if you can find it
if you can find it yeah yeah that would be interesting to to look up like even once mine's
done it's not a super rare car but they are you know rest of mod collectible I wonder the old
square body novus just to see what you can buy a good restored one for versus what I'm done I
wonder if that's where this would actually make sense to build it for when you have those cars are
starting to become unobtainium like a 440 uh uh hemicuda yeah you know where I've seen them sell
like you know some of them at $702 million but you got to think those are original yeah low
mileage or not whatever you know with all the matching numbers in the in the super rare spec
of a car that's what makes those so pricey yeah right so you build one of these maybe it cost
you 200 000 to do it you're it's not worth that well it's a replica yeah yeah but let's say like
let's say that kuda let's say say nothing let's say a very nice one in in the spec that you would want
which would be love the rare ones right let's say it's even 500 grand 400 grand okay is you can make
a clone at the number and say you don't care about resell value just this is your end of life or you
want to have does it make sense to go so I pay a shop to finish it and stuff yeah no I I see that
yeah if it's just a car that you want yeah and you don't you know have the means to buy a a real one
building a replica for half the prices sure it's kind of like the 4 gt not everyone can afford the
six to eight million or 18 million dollar original 4 gts that be the months that's why you buy you can
go buy a super performance that is you know 60 percent percent of the parts of the original
gt can be used on that and you buy it for in total you're in it 200 grand right and you just go out
and enjoy it exactly yeah I'm with you no I like that yeah all right well thanks for the update
guys I am looking forward to Grant's Mustang yeah it's gonna be fun what what what okay just
talk about the other one David no okay no so I'll have to edit that thank you yeah
we do have a listener that is working on it yes yes working on it he sent us a list but it's
undecipherable at the moment so we're gonna have to hash that out and we'll bring that to you yeah
thanks David for sending that in that's awesome can't wait to look at it and we're encouraging
any of our other listeners to send in Jimmy in this Jimmy absolutely I think Jimmy should do it
not just Jimmy but no yeah I know I know I'm just picking on him yeah yeah anyway so thanks for
tuning in hope that was entertaining for you and remember to reach out to us on untitled car
project at gmail.com or messenger Facebook Instagram whatever it is share the podcast with your friends
if you or someone you know who would like to be a guest on the show it's about cars or car projects
please email us and let us know if you've built a kit that is one thing I was going to say we
are very interested for anyone who has built a kit car from start to finish we want to hear
about your journey or even start to halfway through I would love to talk to you about that like
that's an experience none of us well except Grant has tried uh had taken on and yeah I would love
to talk we'd love to have you in studio we're having over a phone call and we'd love to talk about
that 100% that would be really cool yeah and that's it for tonight thanks for tuning in to show 61
and we will see you next time bye
you
About this episode
A lively discussion about project cars kicks off with updates on Antonio's 1999 Ford Mustang V6, as he contemplates upgrades and potential swaps to a V8. The hosts debate the merits of keeping the Mustang versus moving to a more powerful Cobra or Camaro. They also explore the challenges of sourcing parts for builds, including the costs associated with aftermarket components. The episode wraps up with a check-in on their own project car builds, revealing some staggering costs and the complexities involved in building from scratch.
Original notes
All about the project. We go over a mid way check in of the Erector set challenge. Friend of the show Antonio needs mustang advice. We highlight some project cars for sale.
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Music by: Mr. Smith. Album: Fredson Drive. AB-CD & Rat Rod. License: CC BY-NC-ND / https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ music found at: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/fredson-drive/rat-rod/
Untitled Car Project Podcast
Rob Spring, Grant Gonzales, Jeremy Molt
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94:29