Esteban Ocon & Alex Jacques | Mexico City GP Preview | "A championship for the ages"

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Hello and welcome to the Fast and the Curious.

This is the Formula One podcast that previews and debriefs the races,

as well as talks to the biggest names in the sport.

This is Greg James.

Lovely to be back on.

I love listening to this podcast, even when I'm not on it.

And how good was Susie Wolfe on the show yesterday?

I think it was a quick, quick turnaround.

It was all on.

Great, great interview.

Christian, who goes also here?

Christian, you're fresh from Austin.

How are you feeling?

Yeah, I'm well.

Speaking of fresh from Austin, Greg James, for you and Betty Glover,

I've got something.

Are you excited about this?

A present.

I have got a present.

You could say, for the first time in quite a while, actually,

it's McLaren News.

Oh, okay, okay, I hear you.

I've got two of these.

This one, for those watching on YouTube, just says Betty.

Betty, can I open yours?

Uh, yeah.

Can I not open it?

Or is that not?

Well, no, not for the purposes of this podcast bit.

No, I'm opening it.

Not with a little extra seconds.

So, uh, yeah, no, obviously you're in Manchester.

So, I've opened the thing and look, Betty,

for, for those listening, please describe what this is.

Is it a t-shirt?

What does it say?

Constructors World Champions t-shirt.

Oh, that is cool.

Look at the back.

That's really nice.

Really nice.

Thank you, Tweran.

It's very papaya.

It's not orange.

For God's sake, don't call it orange.

It's very papaya.

It says this team Constructors World Champions 2025

and it's been given to you.

Greg, you've got one as well.

I've got one as well.

And they say if you don't wear them,

there will be repercussions for the rest of the season.

Well, I was going to say.

It's a joke.

With those, um, with those t-shirts,

we are quite literally showing our colors.

Aren't we with papaya?

Because, yeah, fully signed up McLaren kids.

Yeah, that's nice.

Well, congratulations to them.

Just quickly, before we get into today's episode

and talk about today's special guest

who is patiently waiting and sipping on tea,

potentially coffee.

What did you make of Susie Wolff?

Susie was absolutely brilliant, Greg.

She was so good.

We talked about, we talked about literally everything

from her and Toto's relationship,

marriage advice for myself and Christian,

because we were obviously engaged.

So she gave us a bit of that.

Not to each other.

We talked about when she...

Yeah, not to each other.

We talked about when she was on the podium

with Lewis Hamilton

and he helped to open a bottle of champagne.

We talked about obviously F1 Academy,

her book, her career.

Oh, I could have listened to her all day.

One of the things I love about the front cover of her book

is she's doing the classic leaning on her fist.

Yeah.

It's a really, it's a very, it's a very funny photo.

It's a very deliberate, like, just nonchalant,

just leaning on my fist.

Yeah, have a look at it now, you'll...

But it's like, it's like boss-bitch energy, isn't it?

It's like I am...

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how she wants to describe it.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Is that the sub... That's the subtitle.

It's called Susie Wolfe Driven, Boss-Bitch Energy.

I think, I think, do you know that, that would sell.

That would sell.

You'd go into Waterstones

wherever you get your books

and you'd be like, I'm getting that.

That's caught my eye.

On to today's episode.

Would you like to introduce today's guest, Christian Hugill?

Well, Greg, you've been watching

all of the stories from the world of Formula One unfold

while promoting your Sunday Times best-selling book,

All the Best for the Future,

which Greg, I believe is available in all good bookstores,

is it not?

It is, but sadly, I don't...

I'm not leaning on my fist on the front cover,

which maybe for Book Two or the paperback,

because it is a good look.

I think it shows, it's an air of confidence.

I think you should have.

I think you've missed out there, actually.

Yeah, I think you're right.

Well, well, it...

But you do have Boss-Bitch Energy throughout it.

He does.

As does our guest today, because coming up,

not only will we cross Not Live to Mexico

to speak to Esteban Ocon,

we'll also preview the Mexico City Grand Prix.

And we have a guest who commentates

on every single race live for Channel 4 on F1 TV,

which is arguably too many,

because there's 96 races a season now.

F1 TV viewers all over the world, of course.

And he's also got a book out,

which also, I believe, promises Boss-Bitch Energy.

The book is called Grid to Glory.

75 Milestones of Formula One Moments.

Please welcome Alex Jakes.

Alex, welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you very much for having me.

Yeah, if there's one thing I want to achieve with the book,

it's Boss-Bitch Energy.

So that was always the goal.

Quite right.

And, yeah, I'm glad it's been hyped up.

So thank you for having me on the pod again.

God, I'm the only person that is not writing a book.

I was going to say, big pressure, Betty.

Like, where's your deal?

Hey?

Yeah, maybe one day.

One day, Alex.

I think your book should be called Boss-Bitch.

Boss-Bitch, Betty.

Oh, Betty, Boss-Bitch.

This has turned into brainstorming, hasn't it?

I've got some ideas up my sleeve.

Okay, good.

It's testament to your career, Alex,

as a commentator, as a pundit,

and as a voice in Formula One.

That I was convinced that you and I had chatted.

But because I've listened to you,

and I've seen, I've watched you,

and you've been on this podcast,

I was convinced.

I was like, oh, nice to speak to you again.

You're like, we've never spoken.

So I'm sorry about that.

But that's, I think that's a compliment to you.

It's a compliment to you,

because I feel like a new-know you.

I will certainly take it that way,

although it does have the air, Greg,

of you saying, I've heard enough of this chap.

Oh, my word.

Endless, endless broadcasting.

I'm in no position to ever say

that someone's been on too many things.

It's okay.

I'm sort of the Romesh Ranganathan of podcasts, I'd say.

Anyway, so it's very, very nice to have you on, Alex.

And I want to kick off with a big talking point,

the big talking point from the weekend, really.

And I really enjoyed watching the race.

I'm so into this late, late in the season,

potential rug pull from Max Verstappen

to upset everything.

Max Verstappen, last time I was on,

was 69 points off Oscar Piastri with seven races to go.

He's now 40 points away with five weekends,

two of which are sprint weekends.

Let's go round the class, please.

Can Max Verstappen win this championship?

I guess the answer is, you know, mathematically, yes.

But my question to you, Alex,

Jake's first up is, do you think he will?

I think he'll get it to a last round decider.

I think he needs, on the evidence of when

comebacks like this have happened before,

he needs something to go dramatically wrong

with the McLarens once.

I think if we have five dry races,

I don't think he's going to be the champion.

I think if it rains in Brazil,

I think he's going to be the world champion.

So I still think McLaren have him on the edge of the jab,

but one chaotic race in Brazil could completely change things.

It's always dry in Mexico.

We know it's going to be dry in Qatar and Abu Dhabi.

Vegas is freezing, but usually tends to be dry.

So Brazil, the weather in Brazil,

I think, is going to decide the title.

Wow, what a great answer.

See, that's what, that's the Alex Jake's difference.

You get your answer, and then you get some drama at the end.

And that's what it's all about,

because this is a very dramatic camp sport.

It's also the name of Alex's second book,

the Alex Jake's difference,

which is available from 2028, I believe.

Yeah, marginal gains and all that guff.

Bring it on.

There's a lot of money in that or so I've seen.

The Betty Globber.

What's your heart saying?

What's your head saying?

So, right, my heart and my head is saying Max Verstappen,

and simply because he's still denying that he's...

He admits he's got a chance,

but he's not putting any pressure on himself.

He's still like, when he gets asked about the title race,

he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

He has no pressure on him.

So he can just go out there,

he can just do what he wants to do,

do what he does best,

whereas the two McLaren drivers,

they've got a lot of pressure on them.

Let's be honest.

And really, considering the sort of season Oscar had

and the lead Oscar had at points during this season,

he's going to be looking at this thing

and I'm like, God, I shouldn't let this go, should I?

But I think Max is in a brilliant position.

Christine McHugh Gill.

Gregory McJames.

Just before I answer the question,

I've just realised that he's very much in shot.

There isn't a sleep dog behind me.

So welcome, Teddy, to the podcast.

There he is.

There's a golden...

Welcome, Teddy.

There you go.

It's his first... My dad's dog,

I'm looking after because he's still in Austin

because he went as a fan.

And I thought he's...

No, there he is.

Oh, big stretch, big stretch

for those watching on YouTube.

Teddy, good boy.

Yeah, he's a very good boy.

He's just been out for a walk not long ago,

so he's tired.

So I just thought it was weird not to mention

if you're watching on YouTube,

there's just a dog lying in the background.

Anyway, thank you very much.

Can't actually see him annoyingly

because you're in the way.

So if you could just move to the left,

then we can just look at Teddy the whole time.

Yeah, sure.

Anyway, what does Teddy think about the championship?

Very little at the moment.

He couldn't give him monkeys.

He's fast asleep.

But no, I think...

Will Max just happen to win the championship?

McLaren are looking to protect this dynasty.

They want Oscar Piazza Rinaldo and Norris

to both be able to fight for titles

long-term, years into the future.

They don't want a situation like Red Bull

have where they're struggling to fill

second seats, et cetera, et cetera.

And I understand that.

The negative to that is their unwillingness

to back one driver

means there is the chance that they can take points

out of each other.

And therefore, if this McLaren

isn't as quick as the Red Bull anymore,

the thing is it's so difficult to predict

race after race which car is going to be the best.

There's the potential where Max must happen

is taking points out of McLaren,

not just because the Red Bull is the quicker car

but because also McLaren aren't maximising

their points with one particular driver.

So is it possible, yes,

I tend to agree with Alex.

I think it will take something.

Imagine a similar situation

to what we had in turn one in the sprint race.

I think it needs one other thing.

So if you had to push me for a prediction now,

British bias fans, get ready everybody.

I would predict Lando Norris

if you had to push me to predict someone now.

I think the momentum is with him.

He's been the quicker McLaren

for the last handful of Grand Prix.

He's chipping away at the points.

Everybody's talking about Max

but actually it's Lando's chipping away impressively as well

but it could be all three.

It's too close to call.

I have been watching some quite funny videos

right of McLaren fans

that are sort of putting themselves in the naughty corner

because they're finding themselves deep down

wanting Max for Stappen

to make this amazing comeback

and win the championship

and it is so funny.

Everyone's a bit like oh could Max do it?

Could he make the comeback?

And a lot of McLaren fans are rooting for him.

I'm going to say I'm going to put that out there.

On TikTok, there's a lot of them.

It's interesting isn't it that we oscillate

so quickly between people and allegiances

and stuff because everyone got so bored

of Max for Stappen winning

and then suddenly when it's interesting again

it's like oh Max might win.

We've forgotten all about the years of turmoil

of like nothing changes

and then actually the race we've just seen was quite reminiscent

of 2022-2023 wasn't it really?

Such a good point.

He's now the underdog that people are rooting for.

Is he even talking about Max for Stappen like this?

Yeah, everyone loves Max for Stappen as an underdog.

Everyone loves an underdog.

What's it like from your perspective

in the commentary box Alex?

Are you enjoying watching Max on the charge?

Yeah, I mean the idea of this season concluding

with the greatest ever comeback

in Formula One history.

For that to even be possible

for us to be talking about it

that is the definition of an exciting sporting season.

So I can imagine as a McLaren fan

incredibly terrifying to see

well we'd have to crash into each other at the first turn.

Well he'd have to win every race

and then he starts winning every race.

I can understand the fear

from a McLaren fan's point of view

but yeah the fact that we are now

in the middle of a potential comeback of all comebacks

in Formula One history

and it would be by far the most impressive.

Forget the point systems.

No one's ever come back from the equivalent

of four race wins behind.

So the fact that we could see

the greatest comeback ever unbelievable.

A 64 point gain across four races is ridiculous.

It's ludicrous guys.

Amazing.

Alex, at one point Oscar looked

sort of bulletproof, didn't he?

For the sort of middle bit of the season

to me he hasn't quite looked himself.

There was obviously Baku

where he really didn't look himself

but then he's not been way off, has he?

He just hasn't quite had the pace.

What if anything do you think's happened there?

I think drivers across the year

tend to have one shocker.

So he's allowed Baku as he's shocker.

Although that's the worst weekend

I've ever seen him put together.

I've been covering him since Formula Three

so that's five years

and I've never ever seen him put a race weekend

that ropey together.

But let's say you're allowed one shocker

and then the nature of

whichever was the lead McLaren

out of the first lap in Singapore

was going to be the one putting the pressure

on Max.

Historically this year we've seen

that Oscar is better at passing Max

quickly compared to Lando.

That's just objective.

We've seen that time and time again.

And then you get to Austin

and it's just not his track.

So I think it looks worse than it is

but then everyone's talking about

the fact he's in a slump

and then you've got to deal with that

from Thursday until Sunday

and big pressure on Kuali.

And yeah, I don't think it's a full slump

but it's been sticky for him.

I don't and I also think Alex

that we underestimate how long the season is.

I think some dips of form are inevitable.

I don't think you're going to do

a 24 race season quicker than your team.

I sort of think it's inevitable

that top level sports people have ups

and downs over the course of what is

a massively long sporting season.

Yeah, we've got a differentiate

between the fact that we're used

to Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen.

We've had the Lewis Hamilton era.

We've had the Max Verstappen era

and we've become used to generational drivers.

We've got to remember Oscar and Lando

are trying to win their first.

You see the peak performance

from the generational drivers

once they've got that title

under their under their arm

and there are going to be wobbles

still in your first title.

Hamilton in 2008.

So Hamilton's first championship season

includes crashing into the back

of Kimmy Reichenan

because he couldn't tell

that the red light was on in Canada.

A horrible race for him in Manicourt

in the French Grand Prix.

Hamilton had some really, really tough days

on the way to his first title.

So it just happens.

That is an excellent point.

Do you know what?

I hadn't really thought about it like that

and we need to celebrate this season

for what it is as well

and enjoy it

because it's so nice

not having one driver

that is just dominating it

at start to finish.

Christian made a really good point, Alex,

earlier about how Lando has got

all of the momentum at the moment.

Obviously being better than Oscar

in the last race.

Do you think that's going to count for a lot

because I mean Lando will feel

pretty good going into this one, my name.

I think it's less the momentum

and more the fact

that since we've come back

from the summer break,

most sessions,

and let's look at the whole weekend,

he just seems to be

the quicker McLaren driver

in the way that we all expected

at the start of the year

when he was pre-season bookies favourite

and we thought he'll get off

to a fast start

and then Oscar stole his fast start.

That's exactly the Lando

since the summer break.

He's turned up.

All right, a little bit late

but he looks the Lando of last year.

He looks the quicker of the McLaren pair

and he can have a quiet confidence going into it

but 14 points is still a lot to turn around

when there's going to be fine margins

between those McLaren's

between now and the end of the season.

This is so fun.

This is it.

All we ever wanted was fun, wasn't it?

We started this podcast.

We didn't have much fun

but now we've got some funds.

We've got, let's get our wellies on

and let's wade through the fun.

Well, it's such a good point.

I just love that we've all sat here going,

we can all put predictions.

We don't really know who's going to win

Mexico this weekend.

We don't really know who's going to be

the quickest car across the remaining five races.

We certainly don't know who's going

to win the world championship.

It's lovely.

We should celebrate that

but I just want to go back to it a minute.

That's such a bloody good point.

Betty, I'm the same.

I didn't sort of thought of it like that.

Shows you the brutality of Formula One

that the likes of Lando and Oscar

are being constantly compared to Hamilton

and Verstappen

and the era that F1s had

with these two ridiculous machines.

I think there's probably a fair comment, isn't there,

when fans sometimes feel their drivers

being hard done by

if you support one particular driver?

And I do really like,

I think Susie made the point to us yesterday, Betty,

that I like the way Lando goes,

look, I'm not Max

but I am still capable of winning a title

and I think that's so true.

They're just held to this stupidly high standard.

I think also the point

that she was making about Lando

is that he doesn't have that same

sort of mentality that Max has.

Like he's going to make a few little mistakes

or he's going to beat himself up

when he's talking to the media

and be really honest

that he's just so incredibly different to Max, isn't he?

The personality.

Yeah, totally.

But if he goes and wins the championship, then brilliant.

We're in such a good position

because if Max goes and wins this championship

then that's history.

We have just watched a legendary

second part of the season

from Max Verstappen.

Amazing.

And if Lando or Oscar win it,

then we're watching two young drivers

winning their first world championship.

Like brilliant, stories everywhere.

Alex, you must be shaking in your boots

at the thought of commentating on that.

I can't wait.

Honestly, we haven't had a...

I remember 2021 there was a title decider

and someone very, very senior said,

oh, you'll get loads,

you'll get loads more of these.

That won't be, you know,

there'll be loads of these

and we haven't had one since.

So we're overdue for a last race title decider.

And I can't wait.

Australia have only had two world champions all time.

So Oscar would only be the third.

Lando to come in as preseason favourite

to take all the hits that he did

at the start of the year

to fall all the way back.

Let's be honest,

everyone thought it was done

when he's engine blew in Zandvoort.

If he comes back

and like, you know,

almost buys fingertips,

hauls himself to the top of the mountain,

that will be an epic as well.

So I agree, Petty,

whoever wins, we've got a story for the ages.

Alex, I don't know if you know this,

but when like a good new song comes out,

Greg stands in the mirror

and like pretends introducing it on the radio,

just like hit the vocal and stuff.

That's fact.

Are you with this title battler?

You already like talking through the lines,

like, do you wake up in the morning

and just when you're not brushing your teeth

because that'd be impractical,

but you just sort of wander around the house going to you

and it's a first title for Piastry.

No, maybe I should.

Maybe I should.

Imagine if I now fumble the line in Abu Dhabi

and the first thing I'll think is,

I should have done what Chris can say.

That means of existence.

Oh my word.

It's a first title for Piastry.

A pi...

Oh no, I said first title.

Yeah, that's all right.

All winter, just hating myself

for getting it wrong at the end.

But no, thanks for the yips, Christian.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, appreciate it, mate.

Don't curse him.

Sort of reminds me of the sheer horror

I had every time I...

When I used to do the news on Radio One,

introduced the reporter, Tamsin Kent.

Hi, Tamsin, if you're listening.

I always got you, Ed.

I never did it.

I never did what you think it...

I hate it.

I hate just saying the word Kent.

Because it's...

Yeah.

I mean, if you say it like,

Kent County Council is a nightmare,

or like saying someone listening

driving through the Kent countryside.

Very difficult.

On my first ever Radio Two sports bulletin shift

that I did into Sarah Cox's show,

I had to talk about tennis world rankings.

I said tennis world,

and you can imagine what I said.

And I had loads of friends that were in a car

and they were filming it all being like,

Oh my God, Betty's on Radio Two,

this is amazing.

They filmed it.

They're like, Oh my God, there she is, there she is.

And then I say, f***ing.

And they're all like, everyone just falls silent.

And they're like, did she just say f***ing on the radio?

It's also, it's also doubly bad

because it was on Sarah Cox's show.

I know.

Do you know what?

Oh, awful.

Won't ever get over that.

Thank you.

But anyway, look,

I'm sure you're not going to say

then Tastry wins the Puffer Trivler.

I think it's going to be absolutely fine.

Don't worry about it.

And just to go back to what Christian was saying,

I do practice sometimes.

Do you?

Are you just making that up?

Yeah.

I do practice my links sometimes.

I think about what I believe it or not.

Sometimes I think about what I'm about to say.

I don't believe that I've worked with you too long.

I will think about it the night before.

As I go to bed and like,

what's the first thing I'm probably going to say

tomorrow morning?

I do think about it.

So there you go.

And when he wakes up in the morning,

it's eight o'clock newsbeat now with Callum Leslie.

Every morning.

Anyway, moving on.

This has got niche, hasn't it?

It's still to come and talk about it.

Well, it's good.

It's good.

Do you know what it is?

What?

It's really positive.

And I like that.

Alex, you're a good...

You're a good...

Making a...

What's the word I'm looking for?

You're a good...

You should have thought this through

and then maybe you...

Yeah.

When everything collapsed earlier,

you should have practiced the compliment.

Correct.

You can't think about every live interaction.

Influence, influence.

You're a good influence on all of us, Alex.

Positive.

You're getting us excited

and we love your insight

and we're going to get more insight from you

as we talk about your book

and Christian Hugo will speak to Esteban Ocon

next on The Fast and the Curious.

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Hello and welcome back to the cast and the fury.

Oh, no, no, no, I'm selling Alex Jakes.

I like it.

It'd be good that we can just call it Alex Jakes,

but you've actually never done this.

That's cool.

Yeah, we'll call it, we'll call it a Jalix Akes.

Yeah, it'd be like that Michael Cain thing where, like,

he never said not a lot of people know that.

And it's exactly that.

Okay, anyway, welcome back to the Fast and the Curious.

Kristian Hugo, we are about to speak to Esteban Ocon,

but he's not here.

No, he's not.

He's not here with us because

Mexico has quite the time difference,

but I thought of a way we can do it.

Don't worry.

I thought of a way it will slot seamlessly into the podcast.

We've done it once before.

This is going to be bad.

By the way, this is going to be bad.

Just let everyone know.

No, it's not.

It's already it's bad.

No, it's not.

It's going to be excellent.

Because thanks to the magic of podcasting,

we can cross live now to Kristian Hugo,

who joins us from the future.

Future Kristian, talk to us.

Past Kristian, thank you very much.

You're looking very handsome this evening.

I am here in the future and I'm not alone.

I'm with Esteban Ocon.

Esteban, welcome back to the Fast and the Curious.

What a joy to see you.

Thank you very much for having me.

It's an absolute pleasure.

The last time you were on this podcast,

we were sat at F175 in London.

Is it just me or does that seem like several years ago?

Decades ago?

No, to be honest,

it actually doesn't feel that long ago for me.

Really?

Yeah, this year has flew by.

It's been incredible.

But no, it feels like a month ago, to be honest.

Yeah, it's quite strange.

I think that's probably a great sign.

And it's not that I've not enjoyed this season.

I'm loving it.

But it feels like it is a long season.

Seasons used to be much shorter.

So it's nice that it doesn't feel as long for you as a sign.

You're having a lovely time, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, lovely time is a big word.

But it would be a lovely time

if we were winning every race.

But no, I mean, it's when your head is down

and focus on the job,

you go from races to races,

from simulator work, from debrief,

and races to races, it goes by fast.

You are focused on what matters and it's good.

I wish normally we say that when we are getting older,

things go by quicker.

So that's not really a great sign.

But at the moment, it still feels like a month ago

that we were in front of 75.

But yeah, I realize that there's a lot of things

that have gone by.

A lot of things that have gone by.

I'm lucky, Esteban, obviously come to several of the races.

We only spoke last weekend, actually,

when you were on my other podcast.

So I'm lucky to see you in and around F1.

You've always, this season,

had such a nice smile on your face,

even when stuff hasn't gone your way.

Not every weekend is going to be like a great weekend,

but you seem to always still be smiling.

Is this fair to say, you look to me

like you're enjoying Formula One more this season?

Is that a fair thing to say?

I am, I am, yeah.

I think it's a good environment,

being here with this team,

the teams really trying to push themselves forward

and improving and the competition

is the main goal behind everything.

And that's the reason why I wanted to come here

is the fact that people are proud about doing well

and people are proud about when weekends are decent

and we are doing what's needed.

So yeah, I feel like I have a good environment.

I have good relationship with everyone here,

including Oli.

Yeah, that definitely is a great place to be working.

If you're happy with the place of work,

that's the most important normally.

But yeah, we need to have a little bit

of a quicker machine, hopefully,

to be fighting a little bit more in the points more often.

And that's what we're working on, but the rest we have.

But you're picking up those points still

and as we speak, pre-Mexico, your ninth in the standings,

you guys know like one result

from even one of you or Oli can change that.

It's so close.

What are the aims for you guys in these final handful of races?

And do you know whether they'll suit you or not?

Mexico, as we look ahead to the likes of Brazil or Vegas,

do you think it'll suit you guys?

I hope so.

And I think, you know, since we have the updates,

it should go in the right direction as well.

You know, tracks like Mexico, for example here,

you know, it's quite a lot of low-speed corner

with traction and it's usually a place

where we are pretty decent exiting corners

is usually a strong point of us.

So, I mean, these are all facts on previous races and stuff,

but we need to see it in action,

see how it goes after practice.

But yeah, I mean, if we have a weekend

where we don't have issues

and we manage to extract the best out of it,

we should be in a decent position

and that's going to be the end.

We said you were coming on the podcast in the week.

We got so many questions.

I'm going to put a couple of those questions to you now.

This first one is from one of our listeners and viewers called Izzy.

And Izzy, and our producer Will actually,

I need to give Will some credit for this,

told me something I had no idea

and I'm staggered at myself, I didn't know this,

that you were in a French language,

Netflix original film.

So Izzy's question is,

is there more acting on the way in your career?

But right, we need to go back a bit.

How did this come about?

What role do you play

before we answer Izzy's question about any more acting?

Well, I don't know if it's really a role,

but to be honest, I have two scenes in a great,

actually, Netflix movie with some great French actors as well.

We have a good friend of mine who's called Michel Laroc,

she's a French actress,

she's been having so much experience in movies,

she's done so many great movies,

and she's going to be playing in Emilia in Paris quite soon as well.

So, you know, she basically asked me if I wanted to do that little cameo.

It was supposed to be a cameo,

but at the end of the day,

they gave me a little bit of a bigger scene

where I had two scenes on two different locations.

And it was one on a church,

and then the other one was in Barcelona.

So it's a bit weird because I play Damien,

and I still, basically, the girl there.

She exited the church,

and she doesn't want to get married with her husband,

and I basically steal her away.

But on the track, you know, I'm Damien,

I'm not Esteban,

but I'm still in an Alpine suit because it was last year.

So, you know, it's quite funny, the whole thing.

And it was great to have a little bit of experience,

see how, you know, movie works and how it is.

I don't know if there will be more soon,

but there will be definitely more in the future.

That's what I want to do for sure.

So this is a thing.

You'll do more acting in the future.

This is a bit of a thing.

I would love to.

I mean, that was an experience that I could not say no.

I could not decline the way it was presented to me,

and how Michel wanted me to play in that movie was...

Yeah, I had to try.

Basically, I had to give it a go,

and everyone will welcome me so well and teach me,

you know, the little things that I could do better,

and, you know, learning about the job, really.

But yeah, I would love to do, you know,

a bit more maybe action stuff in the future.

We never know after my career when I retire.

This is comfortably my favorite thing I've ever found out

about a Formula One driver away from the track,

because you know this podcast.

We speak to you guys about your lives away from the track,

and a lot of them, your colleagues, Esteban, Max especially,

they all say, oh, well, what do you do in your spare time?

I'm a sim racer, I drive something else.

I do that too, mate.

Oh, I know you do.

But you've got something else called that's brilliant,

that's absolutely fantastic.

So, I guess what I was going to ask is,

who'd play you in, like, a story of your career,

in, like, a film of your life?

You'd play you, I guess.

I don't know.

I don't know if there will be a movie about me in the future.

First of all, I don't know if, you know,

there is enough to tell about me, but...

Yes, there is.

I don't know.

At the moment, I'm still in my career.

There's still a lot of things that has to come

and that I have to achieve.

And, you know, we can talk about that in 10 years' time.

Okay.

Get thinking about what roles you'd play,

because I think you could play...

I think you could be the hero.

I think you could be the anti-hero.

I think you've got range, Esteban.

I think there's a...

Oh, thank you, mate.

I appreciate it.

There's a career in that.

I appreciate it.

Andy's question is a funny one.

Now, for those that don't know, last weekend,

there was a bit of a story that came out after the weekend

about crafty red bull people peeling away tape

that other drivers had been using to mark their grid slots.

So, Andy asks, do you use tape to align your car on the grid, Esteban?

No, but I take your reference before,

because, you know, there's always those banners and sponsors,

which was MSC crews, I think, from that last race.

Yeah.

And basically, I was on the bottom of the M.

If I look left, you know, my chassis and my headrest

were stopping there at the bottom of the M,

so that was my reference.

But I understand the little mind games

that they are trying to play to each other or the team

is what we like about competition, really.

Oh, totally.

I like that.

Yeah, it's a bit of gamesmanship.

It's what we like in sport.

Also, but I also think it shows you an example

of your guy's talent, because I've sat in the shell

of an F1 car, so there was nothing in it,

but it was an actual chassis.

I am staggered at how little you guys can see.

Like, when you're going onto the grids,

just explain how difficult it is.

You look at it and think it's the easiest thing in the world.

Park the car up on the grid before the start of the race.

Even that bit's difficult, right?

Yeah, it is.

It is super difficult.

We can't see anything.

We don't know where the lines are,

you know, where the grid spots are.

It's super difficult.

And actually, I made my girlfriend Flavie sit in my race car

in my YouTube video, and she was amazed as well

on how she could not see anything.

She was like, you can't drive like that.

No way, you're lying to me, you're higher than this.

And I'm like, no, that's the actual position.

Yeah, it's surprising because from outside,

you know, it looks like the helmet's quite high

and we see quite a lot of it,

but we don't see the front wing.

We see only that much of the wheel on the top of the wheel.

So, yeah, it is part of the job

and it is one of the difficult bits of things.

And especially these new cars, you see less and less.

But yet weirdly, the halo, you see less of than you think, right?

That's sort of, I don't know whether it sits in the bridge

if you know, but I thought the halo would block the view,

but that seems okay.

No, that's not too bad.

Yeah, that's actually okay.

It's like if you put your hand like that,

but you see through, for example,

like I'm in front of you now,

but I see you because, I don't know,

the eyes, they basically match up

so that you can see in front of it, you know?

So that's okay.

Estaban, I'd now like to apologise.

I'm looking after my dad's dog who has been quiet all day

except for when I interviewed a Formula One driver

and he's now parking at next door.

What's your name?

His name is Teddy.

He's a Golden Tree driver.

He's gorgeous.

Hang on a minute.

Oh, that's awesome.

Teddy!

Teddy, can you treat me as a Formula One driver?

Teddy!

Right, I'm going to ask you another question

because this has all gone terribly wrong.

Don't be mean to him.

Oh, he is gorgeous,

but he barks at people getting home

in the next door flat and it's not his flat.

He's got no right to do so.

Katie says you're clearly at a better place

this year compared to last.

When you get into a better car

or the car has improved,

can you feel the change when you get in the car?

That's from Katie.

Yeah, yeah, you do feel.

You know, changing things is not an easy thing.

There's a lot of things to learn,

but you straight away feel

when I did the test in Abu Dhabi,

you know, where the differences are,

where the car is stronger,

where the car is a bit weaker.

And it's a different way of driving as well

because you extract the lap time

from a different place normally.

But yeah, straight away took me three or four laps

to discover, you know,

where the car was stronger,

where it was a bit weaker,

and the way that I should have drive, you know.

And then the rest is about adapting,

about making sure I'm comfortable really.

But on that side of things,

I think we've done a pretty good job

in terms of adapting

and that's been quite flawless.

Loads of these came in,

so I'm not going to name any listeners

and viewers in particular,

but we're obviously a podcast

presented by British people.

So hence this question,

we've obviously got loads of listeners

and viewers in America,

you guys are an American team.

Therefore, loads of said,

how are you getting on with Oli?

I guess it's a bit different

for you compared to say last year,

you were with Pierre,

who's experienced.

How different is it being

with a rookie alongside you?

Does it feel different

or is it completely the same?

No, it's great with Oli.

I mean, he's a really nice character,

really fun, you know,

to spend time with.

You know, once we get to work,

obviously it's very professional

and we talk a lot about a lot of things,

you know, in debriefs

and we make sure to be transparent,

you know, from one side of the garage

to the other.

But when we do activations outside the track,

that's where we'll spend the most times.

It's very fun,

you know, to spend time with him.

He's a very nice guy.

I get along super well with him

and, you know,

I'm really happy to be teaming up with him

for this year and also the next.

So yeah, I mean,

it's going well at the moment.

The atmosphere that there is in the team

and yeah, there's no reason that it should change

and I hope that, you know,

we get a lot of success together

because yeah, we are putting the work in,

you know, with the team

and I hope it will pay off.

Love it.

And just finally, Esteban,

Mexico this weekend,

we've already spoken about how tight it is.

Like the midfield battle

is genuinely ridiculous.

Like, I mean,

you look at like, say,

Hulk's podium back at Silverson or something.

It changes it completely.

When Carlos gets one for Williams,

like one little result

come out the difference.

So what's possible in Mexico?

What are you feeling and thinking?

Obviously, you've not driven the car yet.

So I know it's difficult to say,

but what should be possible for you guys?

Where are you looking to be in Mexico?

Well, the aim is going to be to qualify better

than we've done recently.

It's been quite tricky for us in Kuali,

but the race pace has been pretty solid, you know,

to be able to join the top 10.

And, you know,

the aim is to be scoring some points always

and I hope that, you know,

we can deliver something like that.

I think the team was very competitive here last year,

towards the end of the year, especially.

And, you know, we've got the upgrade as well.

So I hope it's going to go that direction also.

We've got everything crossed for you, Esteban.

Listen, Haas are great to this podcast.

You are great to this podcast.

Appreciate you coming back on.

So when you were last on, Esteban,

so many people got in touch

and said how much they enjoyed hearing from you.

So there's a lot of, like,

love and well wishes for you from team,

the fast and the curious.

So go well at the weekend, Esteban.

And we, yeah, we hope to see you in the points.

Thank you, mate.

We keep you in touch.

And thank you, everyone, for listening.

Take care, Esteban.

Go well this weekend.

Bye-bye.

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Oh, God.

Anyway, welcome back if you're still there

to the fast and the curious.

What?

I must say he was brilliant.

Loved what he said.

No, brilliant.

Who Esteban?

Oh, I'm grateful.

Great for him.

I really enjoyed that.

The bit where he talked about the F1 stuff was brilliant.

I do love the time traveling Christian Hugh Gill.

There's definitely mileage in that.

Although what I would say is

when you were introducing yourself in the future,

our guest, Alex Jakes, had his hands in his head

or his head in his hands.

Both either way, it was fine.

Alex knows me well.

Alex has to work with the other race weekend.

It won't be the first all the last time, don't worry.

So, Alex Jakes, tell us about Grid to Glory, please.

75 milestone F1 moments.

That is a lot of moments in F1.

To whittle it down to 75

was probably quite difficult, I imagine.

Yeah, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

And then as I was writing it,

I was thinking I should have written this

for the 60th anniversary of Formula One

rather than the 75th.

Yes.

You've got to cover the entire time.

Better than the 80th, though.

Better than the 80th.

Exactly, exactly.

So, it was a lot of fun.

We go all the way back to 1950

in the start of the championship.

And the idea was we've got so many new fans

who don't even know who Sebastian Vettel is,

let alone Sterling Moss.

So, let's tell the stories in a fun, accessible way.

And the maddest moments, the most serious moments,

the breakthrough moments,

everything that changed the game,

like the race where they turned up

with a giant fan on the back of the car.

And it's short chapters, hopefully,

covering the history of F1 in a fun way.

What is the funniest moment?

Can you whittle one down?

The fan sounds funny,

because I'm imagining a large person.

But you mean like an extractor fan, don't you?

Yeah, yeah.

Rather than someone in merch hanging on for dear life.

I hadn't even thought of it like that.

I'd say the one that I enjoyed the most

is the driver's strike, which happened in the 80s.

Loader, the drivers just signed their super licenses.

Nikki Lauda knew his onions, read the small print.

The small print was outrageous.

They're trying to take the drivers rights away.

So he sets up camp at the tunnel to the paddock,

and he says, yeah, have you read your super license?

And they all go, no, Nikki,

because Nikki's the one who pays attention to these things.

And he's like, yeah, well, it's really bad for us.

And we're going on strike because he was Nikki Lauda,

and he could do that.

And so the entire F1 grid threatened, it's like,

you got to back down.

All right, we're not signing these super licenses

and the powers that be said, you're going to have to,

or we're not going to have a race.

And they're like, all right, we're on strike.

And they all went to one hotel room.

They didn't have separate rooms.

So you imagine the entire grid today piling onto a bus.

They're all on there, all 20 are on there.

They go to a hotel.

Lauda's been clever enough to realize

that those at the back are going to be threatened with the sack

and then they're going to crumble.

So they have to sleep in the same room.

So you had drivers playing the piano,

others telling stories.

One was doing caricatures and then they all went on strike

for two days in the hotel for the South African Grand Prix.

And it's the, I loved it.

I like the idea of that happening today.

You've got, you know, Charlotte Claire on piano,

Lewis Hamilton singing along, Liam Lawson going,

when's it my go with the guitar?

Everyone's like, all right, Lawson, give it a time down.

Yeah.

All right.

And that really happened in the 80s.

This isn't happening now, by the way.

Even if they wanted to strike,

the backlash that they receive from the public,

because we all know how much they're paid,

it would just never work.

Unless they were striking for the rights of the team,

people work at the teams or something,

then you could get it.

But if it was anything to do with the drivers,

unfortunately, when people are paid that much money,

they just become collateral.

But, but if one driver on today's grid

was to read the small print and call a strike,

which driver would it be?

And why would it be George Russell?

George Russell, 100% George Russell,

any day of the week.

And do you know what?

He'd rock up, he'd be wearing a suit,

he'd be ready, he'd be like,

Oscar, come here right now.

I need to speak to you.

He would be on it.

He'd be like, right, everyone,

everyone to my yacht now.

We're striking.

Tarquin, get the drinks.

And this is going to take a while.

Yes.

Well, we'll set sail at noon.

We're not coming back until they've agreed to the terms.

Alex, that's a lovely moment.

And I do, I do wonder, like you,

I know that you, like me,

been a fan of this sport since you were a kid.

And now, like, obviously,

you're still a fan of the sport.

Obviously, you work in it.

But, like, you'll do what anyone else does.

And you'll scroll through your phone

and see a clip of an F1 race from recent times.

And because you do the F1 TV commentary,

it's your voice.

How is that to process when you're like,

oh, there's F1, but I'm all over it.

Like, you can't take yourself away from the sport.

That must be a bit mad in the nicest possible way.

Yeah, it is.

It doesn't really get old.

It gets really weird in the summer break

when you unplug for a couple of weeks

and then you come back and, like,

in the summer break, I always delete social media.

And then you go back to work and you need to use it.

So you download all the apps again.

And there is always a jolting moment where,

I'm commentating on this.

Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that's your job.

But there is always a jolting moment

where it is strange when we go back

to the first race after the summer break.

It's a lovely, it's a lovely thing.

I found it by accident flicking through the channels

as a kid.

It became my sport.

I always wanted to be a F1 commentator.

I would have been very, very happy

to do sports broadcasting of any description.

But to get the chance to do F1

is it just never gets old.

I love it.

Related to you having watched the sport

for a long time as a fan,

you've also, as Christian said,

spent a lot of time working in it.

You've spent a long time commentating

in F2 and F3 nine rookies

doing it free practice one this weekend.

Is that because a lot of the drivers

can't be asked or is that just

to give everyone a go or is it both?

A bit of both, no.

I'm not sure every driver would do F1

if they were forced to.

But no, it's a nice rule that we've had

in recent years that's been doubled for this year.

Four sessions for the teams,

two for each car across the year.

You've got to give to a driver

who doesn't have the same experience.

And it means that we get some different names.

And it is good this,

because sometimes you get drivers

who would deserve a seat on the grid,

who don't get the chance.

And these sessions mean that

even if they don't get a full-time seat,

they still get to participate

during the Grand Prix weekend.

And if you consider that there are tons of people

who don't quite make the grid,

who were brilliant drivers,

whose family spent a lot of money

and a decade of their lives

trying to reach the goal,

the least they deserve.

Someone like Fred Vesti at Mercedes,

the least Frederick Vesti deserves,

running up in Formula 2 a couple of years ago,

is a F1 at the Mexico City Grand Prix.

A lot of people,

when they talk about the Mexico City Grand Prix,

Alex, talk about the altitude

and what it's like racing in it.

Why does that matter?

And is there anybody in particular

who is just going to really suit?

Well, Max has won there five times,

so he just seems to love it full stop.

But that was a little bit because of the fact

that it takes the performance away from the engine.

Red Bull traditionally,

when he wasn't...

They always had a good chassis,

but they didn't always have a good engine.

So they would get to Mexico

and suddenly it would be a level playing field

for the first time all year,

when things were dominant for Mercedes.

So he's pinched a couple of wins there

because of the reset of the altitude.

The lack of air density means

that they run monocoe levels of downforce

at Monza levels of speed.

So they've got all the downforce

they can possibly bolt on

and there's just less oxygen,

less air density because of the altitude.

So as a result, they're going ludicrously quick

with loads of downforce,

which is why Verstappen's got so many wins,

because Red Bull has always been good at that.

And the power is a little bit down

on the outright performance.

So yeah, it does change things a little bit.

It won't change this year's world championship as much

because no one's got an outrageous advantage

with the engine

or a super efficient car

when it comes to the aero.

They're evenly matched.

Just on the FP1 thing

and getting a go in free practice.

This might be stupid question, Alex.

How exciting is that for a driver?

Because we, as the viewer

or the fan,

we look at it and go,

oh, who's that?

Or we might go, oh, yeah, I've heard of him.

That's cool that he gets to go.

But is that, as you mentioned,

the money they spend,

the years they spend trying to get into Formula One,

is that a really exciting moment?

Or are they going,

they've thrown me some crumbs here?

It's not quite the crumbs,

but you're on to something, Greg.

They work all their lives.

They're very appreciative of the moment.

But then if you speak to all the FP1 drivers,

the number one fear that they have

is binning the actual race driver's car.

Yeah, it's a nightmare, right, that gig?

You get this moment,

but then your moment is clouded by the fact

that please don't stick this in the wall

because then,

and you know for a while,

the driver's on the pit lane,

pick entry,

or in the garage,

and you know the director will just crash Zoom

to the driver,

like we saw with Antonelli

when he crashed George Russell's car.

Bang, Antonelli's in the wall

and let's crash Zoom to George Russell looking grumpy.

Russell's thinking don't look grumpy

on the international feed.

Mm-hmm.

One, two, three.

Russell's like that.

And then, yeah.

That's fine.

He's crashed my car.

There's no way I can now win this weekend.

That's all right.

Then they cut away from the garage

and then you can have a proper

stropping the debrief afterwards.

But now, Greg, you're right.

It's a lovely moment

that they can celebrate afterwards,

but not at the time.

They feel massive pressure in the car at the time.

I think with this particular batch we've got,

I think let's be honest,

there are more,

there are some who have more of a chance

of getting F1 seats in the future.

So the one I would look out for in particular

is Limblad at Red Bull.

So he, I'm going to go and talk about this in a minute.

The only non-Red Bull seat for grabs next year

is with Alpine.

Other than that,

your only hope of getting on the grid

next year is in a Red Bull car.

Well, basically, we don't really know what they're going to do

with Alfa...

Do you know, I went Alfa-Tarri,

then I went Toro Rosso.

I actually mean racing bulls.

Sorry.

There we go.

Yeah.

Here we go.

So we don't know what they're going to do with them

and we also don't know what they're going to do

with the main Red Bull seats.

But there is a world where, say, for example,

Isakhajia swaps out for Sonoda

and they, for whatever reason,

don't put Yuki back in the RB

or they choose not to put in Lawson.

Limblad is the one people are talking about, I think.

So he's maybe the one I'd keep an eye on,

the one, I think, who will be being judged very closely

as to his performance.

Because Dr. Helmut Markow,

the, I don't know his official title,

I suppose the Overlord,

the driver advisor of Red Bull,

the, you know, the Dark Lord.

The big dog.

Yeah, all of those.

He said that they're going to think

about this seat after Mexico

and you might hear something after Mexico.

I mean, you never know.

Red Bull's calmed a little bit, for whatever reason,

in the last few months.

But still, what Dr. Markow says

and what actually happens,

don't always follow perfectly in sync.

So, you know, it might be that we hear something

after Mexico, it might not.

But he's the one I'd keep an eye on, maybe.

Alex, do you think Hadja should,

like, obviously, if he gets offered it,

do you think he would, he should be going to that

second Red Bull seat alongside Max?

Hard to say now, isn't it?

But like, do you think it would be good for his career?

Do you think he'd thrive in that seat?

I think it's a great seat to have for 26

with the regulation change.

I think if you offered it,

if we had the same rules next year,

I think you'd be looking at it going,

I've got to go,

but look at what's happened to Lawson,

look at what's happened to Yuki.

Also, Cecho was fairly good as well

in the grand scheme of winning races

in Formula One history.

He's had a very good career.

But a total rule reset,

they're going to have to understand the car.

It's the best chance to be Max Verstappen's teammate

is at the start of 2026 and a total rule change

because you don't know at that point

whether they're going to have the same problems

for the second car.

And I suppose as well, if you're going to do a long term,

if you're going to go long term

and they will want stability in that seat,

it sort of feels like to me,

they've got to go right,

or stick them in right from the start of this rule set

to give him the absolute maximum chance

and actually don't make it.

If he doesn't look quick after half a lap of FP1,

don't get rid of him then.

Just maybe stick with someone a bit.

I know it's a bit radical,

but maybe stick with someone a bit.

Well, there's no one obvious,

is there, after Isaac,

because if Lindblad gets promoted,

he's going to have to learn the sport.

He'd be a rookie.

I just, Hajar was very, very impressive last year in F2,

probably the fastest driver in F2 last year.

Didn't win the title.

Bortletto had world-class race craft,

almost outthought him to the title.

But in terms of raw pace,

Hajar is so quick that you'd say,

in terms of raw speed,

not overall race performance,

but in terms of raw speed,

I think he's probably the quickest driver

they'll have in that car,

since Alex Albin,

in terms of, you know,

Checo was brilliant all-rounder,

but not the fastest qualifier.

So if it doesn't work with Hajar,

who's he going to work with?

I mean, it's been a long-term problem for Red Bull.

Alex has been fantastic having you on the podcast.

Christian, lovely to see you.

Betty. Wonderful to see you.

Esteban probably won't answer me,

but lovely to have you on the podcast as well.

Be great if he answers me.

Sorry, I've just heard from,

from, hang on, future Christian,

who spoke to Esteban.

He told me to tell past Christians,

tell presents, Greg.

He's enjoyed it, and you're welcome.

Great, I thought he would have enjoyed it.

I just, I thought I'm just glad to get the confirmation.

Yeah, no, I'm just sure.

As we said at the start of the episode,

if you haven't listened to our special

Susie Wolf interview,

that is on the feed just before this episode.

Everyone should go out and buy Alex Jake's book.

That's the main thing.

And everyone should be following the Grand Prix this weekend.

We'll be back with a debrief on Sunday slash Monday.

What's the timings, Christian?

Give us some timings.

It's a late one.

Yeah, if you're in the UK, it's late.

If you're in the US, it's not quite as late.

Is that right? Have I got that right?

Is that?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's why I thank Alex.

Yeah, good.

So no, we'd think the race finishes about nine-ish.

So it will be, it'll be Sunday night if you're in the UK.

But after the race, a podcast will happen

and it will eventually get uploaded

and you'll be able to listen to it.

Or, thanks to the wonders of modern technology, watch it.

It's 8 p.m. UK time.

It starts.

That's when it starts, is it?

That one's good.

Yeah.

Strikes me as late for a breakfast shell host.

Greg, what are we saying?

Don't mind it.

Don't mind that because I'm on the sort of wind down.

I really didn't mind, I didn't mind Austin for that reason.

I thought, oh, this is quite nice.

It's quite, it's nice to have an afternoon situation.

Yeah.

But anyway, who cares about that?

Enjoy the race, everyone.

I hope you enjoyed the podcast.

We're going to be following it this season,

right to the very last race as there are,

there are twists coming.

We just know there are.

We know to expect them.

Alex, Jake's told us to.

And we'll speak to you very soon.

Alex, have a great rest of the season.

We'll catch up soon and we'll be back next week.

Bye bye.

Bye.

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Esteban Ocon & Alex Jacques | Mexico City GP Preview | "A championship for the ages"

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