{"version":"1.0.0","episode":{"title":"EV Charging Still Sucks. This Guy Is Making It Better","url":"http://getcarcurious.com/episodes/ev-charging-still-sucks-this-guy-is-making-it-better","audioUrl":"https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ieqx6nt22w68ks7w/mt_the_inevitable_ep135_ionna_seth_cutler_audio.mp3","description":"What does it take to compete with Tesla’s Supercharger network? In this episode of The Inevitable by MotorTrend, we sit down with Seth Cutler, CEO of IONNA, the fast-growing EV charging network backed by BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis, and Toyota. IONNA has gone from zero to 100+ charging sites in just two years, with plans to scale to 30,000 high-powered chargers by 2030. But they’re not just building chargers — they’re rethinking the entire charging experience.\n"},"annotations":[{"startTime":73.3,"endTime":99.4,"type":"concept","title":"joint venture","url":"/glossary/joint-venture","quote":"Because they were started by eight car companies... They're a big joint venture. They're a consortium between eight car manufacturers...","canonicalId":"concept:joint-venture","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"A joint venture is when multiple companies pool resources to create and run a new business. Here, the charging network is described as a consortium where several automakers contribute funding and influence.","simplifiedExplanation":"A joint venture is a partnership where companies team up and share money and responsibilities. In this case, multiple car brands are working together on the charging network."}},{"startTime":96.1,"endTime":99.4,"type":"brand","title":"Toyota","url":"/glossary/toyota","quote":"...Stalantis, and then Toyota joined them a year later. They were the Magnificent Seven and now they're the Elite Eight.","canonicalId":"brand:toyota","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Toyota is mentioned as joining the consortium a year after the original group. Late additions can change funding, coverage plans, and how quickly the network scales.","simplifiedExplanation":"Toyota joined the charging partnership after it started. That can help the network grow faster and reach more drivers."}},{"startTime":168.5,"endTime":174.2,"type":"concept","title":"sites live","url":"/glossary/sites-live","quote":"So I think it leads with how many sites are live now in the Iona network? So the time the release goes out... that week we'll have over 100 sites live...","canonicalId":"concept:sites-live","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"“Sites live” means charging locations that are operational and available for drivers, as opposed to planned or under construction. For EV charging, the number of live sites is a practical measure of real-world availability.","simplifiedExplanation":"“Sites live” means the charging locations are open and working for drivers. It’s a way to measure what you can actually use today."}},{"startTime":350.4,"endTime":364.0,"type":"company","title":"Tesla Supercharger","url":"/glossary/tesla-supercharger","quote":"Right. And so the last Tesla supercharger site I was at was in Baker, California, and it was a parking lot with one trash can that was overflowing. And no restrooms or anything like that.","canonicalId":"company:tesla-supercharger","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Tesla Superchargers are Tesla’s fast-charging network for EVs. The speaker uses a specific Supercharger site example to illustrate how site amenities (restrooms, cleanliness, trash overflow) affect the overall charging experience, even if the chargers themselves are plentiful.","simplifiedExplanation":"Tesla Superchargers are Tesla’s fast charging stations. The point here is that the “experience” isn’t just how fast you charge—it’s also things like bathrooms and overall site comfort."}},{"startTime":567.9,"endTime":571.9,"type":"concept","title":"remediate the location","url":"/glossary/remediate-the-location","quote":"we picked the most difficult one was a hundred old gas station that we, as we're doing construction, found an old gas tank, had to remediate the location, still get it live within nine months...","canonicalId":"concept:remediate-the-location","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"“Remediate the location” means cleaning up contamination or hazards at a site before construction and operation. For former gas stations, this often involves environmental cleanup related to old fuel tanks and soil contamination.","simplifiedExplanation":"“Remediate” means fix the problem in the ground or on the property before building. Old gas stations can have leftover contamination that has to be cleaned up."}},{"startTime":640.5,"endTime":650.5,"type":"brand","title":"Ford","url":"/glossary/ford","quote":"Ford announced that they were going to ditch CCS and go to NACS... everybody else followed the first domino.","canonicalId":"brand:ford","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Ford is the automaker mentioned as announcing a shift away from CCS toward NACS. In the transcript, Ford’s decision is framed as influential—“the first domino”—prompting other OEMs to follow.","simplifiedExplanation":"Ford is the car company in this story that said it would move toward the NACS charging plug standard. The point is that when a big automaker makes that move, others often follow."}},{"startTime":640.5,"endTime":759.16,"type":"concept","title":"CCS","url":"/glossary/ccs","quote":"Ford announced that they were going to ditch CCS and go to NACS... And so we can actually go back and we're watching our network in terms of which sites are higher utilization on NACS versus CCS.","canonicalId":"concept:ccs","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"CCS (Combined Charging System) is the dominant fast-charging standard for many non-Tesla EVs in North America. It defines the connector shape and the charging communication so compatible vehicles can negotiate power levels with the charger.","simplifiedExplanation":"CCS is one of the main plug types used for fast charging EVs. If your car supports CCS, it can use chargers with that connector to charge quickly."}},{"startTime":640.5,"endTime":759.16,"type":"concept","title":"NACS","url":"/glossary/nacs","quote":"Ford announced that they were going to ditch CCS and go to NACS... So you guys said, you hit the ground running and saying NACS... And so all of our sites are 60% NACS, 40% CCS right now.","canonicalId":"concept:nacs","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"NACS (North American Charging Standard) is the charging connector standard associated with Tesla’s Supercharger network. When OEMs adopt NACS, it generally means their vehicles can charge at NACS stations with less friction (often fewer adapters) and standardized connector compatibility.","simplifiedExplanation":"NACS is a newer charging plug standard that’s closely tied to Tesla’s Supercharger network. If your EV supports NACS, you can use those chargers more easily."}},{"startTime":731.7,"endTime":736.7,"type":"car","title":"Dodge Charger","url":"/cars/dodge/charger","image":"https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/1970_Dodge_Charger_R-T_Hirschaid_22-20220709-RM-120204.jpg","quote":"...And then  where's the magnetic handle on the NACS charger, does it? We're not seeing that. I mean, I think ...","canonicalId":"car:dodge:charger","priority":0.5,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"The Dodge Charger is a full-size American performance sedan that’s known for strong acceleration and a sporty, driver-focused layout. It may come up in a podcast discussion around charging because owners often talk about how their vehicle connects to charging hardware and what adapters or ports are needed. In this context, the mention of a “magnetic handle” points to how the car interfaces with a specific charging connector style.","simplifiedExplanation":"The Dodge Charger is a car designed for performance, with a focus on fast driving. When people discuss charging it, they’re usually talking about how the car plugs into a charger and whether it uses a certain connector type. The podcast is specifically questioning whether it has a connector design that uses a magnetic-style handle.","imageAttribution":"Ermell (CC BY-SA 4.0)"}},{"startTime":773.64,"endTime":780.82,"type":"car","title":"Tesla Roadster","url":"/cars/tesla/roadster","image":"https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Nederlandse_Tesla_Roadster_Signature_250.jpg","quote":"...dealing with Teslas since like late 2012. And the roadster shirt, yeah, the roadster  shirt. But I mean, the...","canonicalId":"car:tesla:roadster","priority":0.5,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"The Tesla Roadster is an electric sports car built to deliver high performance with a battery-electric powertrain. It’s often discussed because it represents Tesla’s early, halo-style EV approach and helped establish the brand’s reputation for fast, tech-forward electric driving. In the podcast, it’s referenced alongside Tesla ownership history and related memorabilia, suggesting it’s part of the conversation’s Tesla background.","simplifiedExplanation":"The Tesla Roadster is an electric sports car, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gasoline. It’s known for being a high-performance model. The podcast mentions it as part of Tesla-related experience and references to the Roadster.","imageAttribution":"Logti (CC BY-SA 4.0)"}},{"startTime":780.82,"endTime":784.32,"type":"car","title":"Tesla Model S","url":"/cars/tesla/model-s","image":"https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/20180630_Tesla_Model_S_70D_2015_midnight_blue_left_front.jpg","quote":"...shirt, yeah, the roadster  shirt. But I mean, the Model S, you know, that was, we were very deep into that....","canonicalId":"car:tesla:model-s","priority":0.5,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"The Tesla Model S is a battery-electric luxury sedan that’s known for long-range capability and strong performance. It’s a major model in Tesla’s lineup and often comes up when people discuss real-world ownership, charging, and day-to-day usability. The podcast’s reference to being “deep into” the Model S suggests it was a significant part of the discussion or the hosts’ experience.","simplifiedExplanation":"The Tesla Model S is an electric car that’s built like a luxury sedan. Instead of using gasoline, it uses a battery and an electric motor. The podcast is mentioning it because it was a big focus during their Tesla experience.","imageAttribution":"Granada (CC BY-SA 4.0)"}},{"startTime":909.2,"endTime":922.7,"type":"concept","title":"terrible uptime","url":"/glossary/terrible-uptime","quote":"The terrible uptime, right? You would show up at a charger and the handles busted or the card just didn't work.","canonicalId":"concept:terrible-uptime","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"In EV charging, “uptime” means how often chargers are actually working and available when you arrive. Low uptime is a major frustration because it turns a planned charging stop into a wait, detour, or failed attempt.","simplifiedExplanation":"Uptime just means whether the charger is working when you get there. If uptime is bad, you show up and the charger won’t work, so you can’t charge."}},{"startTime":976.3,"endTime":979.7,"type":"company","title":"EA","quote":"Tesla was really the first one that said, Hey, we're going to build a national network, EA followed suit after that.","canonicalId":"company:ea","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"EA refers to Electrify America, a major US EV fast-charging network. The episode frames EA as following Tesla’s lead in building a broader network rather than only scattered charger locations.","simplifiedExplanation":"EA (Electrify America) is a company that runs fast-charging stations. They’re brought up as part of the shift toward a bigger, more consistent charging network."}},{"startTime":1038.6,"endTime":1042.9,"type":"concept","title":"canopies","url":"/glossary/canopies","quote":"That's why we're doing canopies. That's why we're building amenities.","canonicalId":"concept:canopies","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Canopies are covered structures over EV charging bays. They improve comfort and usability by protecting drivers from sun and rain while they wait, which directly supports the “customer experience” goal.","simplifiedExplanation":"A canopy is basically a roof over the charging spot. It helps keep you dry or out of the sun while you wait for your car to charge."}},{"startTime":1072.8,"endTime":1077.1,"type":"concept","title":"anchor tenant","url":"/glossary/anchor-tenant","quote":"It may not have an anchor tenant, meaning... we sometimes we bought land and we'll have it adjacent to a Starbucks or a donut shop...","canonicalId":"concept:anchor-tenant","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"An “anchor tenant” is a major business (like a retailer) that draws customers and makes a site more attractive. The speaker uses it to explain how some charging locations rely on nearby established destinations for amenities rather than building everything themselves."}},{"startTime":1096.1,"endTime":1100.6,"type":"company","title":"Wawa","url":"/glossary/wawa","quote":"we will partner with a Wawa, big on the East Coast, the Sheets, the Casey's, General's.","canonicalId":"company:wawa","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Wawa is a convenience-store and food retailer commonly used as an “anchor tenant” for EV charging sites. The speaker is describing a site model where charging is paired with a well-known retail location to improve convenience and foot traffic."}},{"startTime":1171.8,"endTime":1177.1,"type":"concept","title":"permitting and zoning","url":"/glossary/permitting-and-zoning","quote":"I would agree with the exception again about where we can and where it's possible from a permitting and from a zoning perspective. We've got canopies on top of these locations.","canonicalId":"concept:permitting-and-zoning","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Permitting and zoning are local-government processes that determine what can be built and where—especially for infrastructure like EV charging. Constraints can affect charger placement, site layout, and whether features like canopies are allowed.","simplifiedExplanation":"Permitting and zoning are the local rules for building. They can limit where chargers can go and what the site can look like."}},{"startTime":1362.0,"endTime":1377.8,"type":"brand","title":"Shell","url":"/glossary/shell","quote":"Are you working with like a major like petroleum, like a, like a mobile or a shell or any. In terms of like the actual electricity?","canonicalId":"brand:shell","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Shell is a major petroleum company that’s moving into EV charging through branded programs like Shell Recharge. The segment uses Shell as an example of how traditional fuel players are partnering or deploying chargers."}},{"startTime":1524.0,"endTime":1531.4,"type":"concept","title":"footprint","url":"/glossary/footprint","quote":"we've been focused on getting kind of the footprint, right? And then, and using that as a foundation or platform to build on top of.","canonicalId":"concept:footprint","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"“Footprint” in this context means the physical network of charging locations—how many sites exist and where they’re placed. The speaker suggests building the charging network first, then layering additional brand experiences and services on top."}},{"startTime":1563.8,"endTime":1568.6,"type":"concept","title":"apartment dwellers who cannot charge at home","url":"/glossary/apartment-dwellers-who-cannot-charge-at-home","quote":"EV adoption. You also have tons and tons of apartment dwellers who cannot charge at home.","canonicalId":"concept:apartment-dwellers-who-cannot-charge-at-home","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"This highlights a major barrier to EV ownership: many renters can’t install home charging. Without home charging, drivers depend on public chargers, which can be harder to access and more expensive.","simplifiedExplanation":"A lot of people live in apartments and can’t put a charger in their parking spot. So they have to rely on public charging instead."}},{"startTime":1574.7,"endTime":1583.0,"type":"term","title":"electrified America","url":"/glossary/electrified-america","quote":"I live .8 miles from one electrified America location.","canonicalId":"term:electrified-america","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.9,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Electrify America is a major U.S. EV fast-charging network. The speaker references living near its locations and still not being able to plug in, illustrating real-world reliability and congestion issues.","simplifiedExplanation":"Electrify America is a company that puts fast chargers in public places. Even near their stations, the speaker is still running into trouble charging."}},{"startTime":1676.3,"endTime":1678.9,"type":"concept","title":"unlock that part of the market","url":"/glossary/unlock-that-part-of-the-market","quote":"the consumer... the folks are going to start buying EVs to unlock that part of the market.","canonicalId":"concept:unlock-that-part-of-the-market","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"“Unlock that part of the market” means removing barriers so more consumers are willing to buy EVs. In this context, better charging access—especially for people who can’t charge at home—is what makes EV ownership more appealing."}},{"startTime":1720.9,"endTime":1724.1,"type":"company","title":"EV Go","url":"/glossary/evgo","quote":"but I do talk to like EV Go or, you know, Electron America.","canonicalId":"company:evgo","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.86,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"EVgo is a public fast-charging network operator in the U.S. The speaker mentions it to illustrate how charging availability and usage have changed since earlier years.","simplifiedExplanation":"EVgo is a company that runs public fast chargers for EVs. The point here is that the network has grown a lot over time."}},{"startTime":1790.0,"endTime":1794.3,"type":"company","title":"ChargePoint","url":"/glossary/charge-point","quote":"we actually have, you know, a mobile app right now across all eight investors. We have, we have Roaming with ChargePoint, right?","canonicalId":"company:charge-point","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.86,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"ChargePoint is a well-known EV charging network operator. The transcript mentions “Roaming with ChargePoint,” implying interoperability where drivers can use one network’s access across others.","simplifiedExplanation":"ChargePoint is a company that runs EV charging stations. “Roaming” here means you can use access/payment across networks more easily."}},{"startTime":1799.24,"endTime":1804.5,"type":"concept","title":"EMSP","url":"/glossary/emsp","quote":"So what's an EMSP? An Electric Mobility Service Provider. So something that has an app is essentially an EMSP.","canonicalId":"concept:emsp","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"EMSP stands for Electric Mobility Service Provider. In EV charging, an EMSP is the company behind the charging service experience—often including account setup, authentication, and app or network integration.","simplifiedExplanation":"An EMSP is basically the company that runs the EV charging service you use. They handle things like your account and how your car gets authorized to charge."}},{"startTime":1850.0,"endTime":1902.2,"type":"concept","title":"test lab","url":"/glossary/test-lab","quote":"we have a full test lab and a full engineering team that work a lot of hours testing and debugging... we actually have a lab at our Raleigh HQ. And then we have eight other labs.","canonicalId":"concept:test-lab","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.85,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"A test lab is where EV charging software and hardware integrations are validated before deployment. The speaker describes having a full test lab and engineering team, plus multiple labs, to test across OEMs and charging providers to prevent ecosystem issues.","simplifiedExplanation":"A test lab is a place where they try charging setups in controlled conditions. The goal is to catch problems before real customers plug in and the system fails."}},{"startTime":1970.4,"endTime":1978.6,"type":"concept","title":"power line communication (PLC)","url":"/glossary/power-line-communication-plc","quote":"Right. There's actual high level power line communication occurring PLC between the car and the charger makes sure no one gets hurt. You're talking about 400 kilowatts.","canonicalId":"concept:power-line-communication-plc","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Power line communication (PLC) is data sent over the same electrical connection used for charging. In EV charging, PLC is used so the car and charger can safely coordinate before high power flows. This is a big reason charging isn’t as “plug-and-play” as a phone charger.","simplifiedExplanation":"It’s like the car and the charger “talk” to each other using the charging cable. They exchange safety and control information before any big power starts flowing. That conversation helps prevent dangerous mistakes."}},{"startTime":2313.2,"endTime":2319.8,"type":"concept","title":"kilowatt-hour","url":"/glossary/kilowatt-hour","quote":"Okay. And there's another discount, which is when you open a new location, 20 cents per kilowatt hour, right? Yeah.","canonicalId":"concept:kilowatt-hour","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"A kilowatt-hour (kWh) is the unit used to measure how much electrical energy you use. EV charging prices are often quoted as a cost per kWh, so the total cost depends on both the kWh rate and how much energy you pull into the battery.","simplifiedExplanation":"A kilowatt-hour (kWh) is basically “how much electricity” you used. If charging costs $X per kWh, your bill depends on how many kWh your car took in."}},{"startTime":2502.0,"endTime":2506.0,"type":"concept","title":"utilization","url":"/glossary/utilization","quote":"we did our second anniversary, we partnered with our OEM friends, and they went out and said, hey, Iona's turning two, you go try them out. And we saw a 2x increase that day on utilization.","canonicalId":"concept:utilization","priority":0.5,"confidence":0.86,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"Utilization is how much the chargers are actually used compared to what’s available. Higher utilization typically improves unit economics and encourages further deployment, especially when marketing partnerships drive new users.","simplifiedExplanation":"Utilization means how often the chargers get used. If more people charge there, the network is working better and can grow."}},{"startTime":2630.9,"endTime":2638.8,"type":"concept","title":"OEMs","url":"/glossary/oem","quote":"...you'll start seeing us work more closely with our OEM friends, investors, partners...","canonicalId":"concept:oem","priority":0.9,"confidence":0.95,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"OEMs are Original Equipment Manufacturers—the companies that make the vehicles (and typically the vehicle brands). In EV charging, OEM partnerships matter because they help connect charging availability to the customer’s buying decision and brand experience.","simplifiedExplanation":"OEMs are the actual car makers. In this context, they’re important because charging networks want to work with the brands so customers know where they can charge."}},{"startTime":3437.6,"endTime":3444.2,"type":"concept","title":"multi-generational product plan roadmap","quote":"So, we're constantly understanding, hey, what's on the time rise and what's on your multi-generational product plan roadmap? Where should we intersect?","canonicalId":"concept:multi-generational-product-plan-roadmap","priority":0.2,"confidence":0.55,"source":"hybrid-fuzzy+gpt-5.4-nano","data":{"explanation":"A multi-generational roadmap is a long-term plan that accounts for multiple future vehicle and product “generations,” such as new battery designs and charging standards. The transcript implies charger partners align their hardware and software updates with what future EVs will be able to accept."}}],"speakers":[{"id":"s1","name":"MotorTrend","role":"host"}],"transcripts":[{"url":"http://getcarcurious.com/episodes/ev-charging-still-sucks-this-guy-is-making-it-better/transcript.vtt","type":"text/vtt"}]}