F1 special: Horner's departure, Alpine rumours and Formula 1 at Le Mans | The evo podcast | Episode 27

So I've got a car on the side, so I'm not just happy on either side of it.

Car on the side?

It's the hair.

Hello and welcome to a special edition of the Evo podcast, because we thought with the F1 season coming back off that summer holidays,

we'd do a quick, short and sweet F1 Evo podcast.

We don't often talk about F1 and motorsport, but we thought it was quite a fascinating season so far,

and it seemed to, the summer break seemed to come at the right time, particularly from McLaren,

so it looked like Oscar and Land are about to...

It's building up again, isn't it?

It's building up, wasn't it, as a massive sort of penultimate lap of Hungary where Oscar just thought,

I'll dive for it.

Absolutely.

Send it and take him out.

Nearly in the gearbox, yeah.

So yeah, we thought, you know, Youssef and James have dressed for the occasion as Carlos Sainz and Max Verstappen.

Yeah, Dicky Sainz.

I'm the slow vehicle recovering on that circuit.

Yeah, Youssef's overtaking.

And I'll come as James' favorite commentator, Crofty.

I'll tell her about that, yeah.

So yeah, what do we think of it so far this season?

It's been, I mean, the McLaren's are sort of fighting out amongst themselves,

and it's the rest everyone else for the summer.

Well, there's so much going on, isn't there?

It's not, there's like the title fight.

That's almost a side show, isn't it?

There's like...

It's jumbled up, isn't it, the rest of it?

Yeah, there's the continuing tragedy of Lewis and Ferrari, isn't there?

It's like, oh, how much worse can it get for him?

He can't get anywhere.

So surely he comes back and wins every race at the second part of the season, doesn't he?

It's painful, isn't it?

Yeah.

I find it painful to watch him because he's never been very good at hiding how he

feels as he's impressed in the pen when he's talking.

But he just looks like a...

Well, he looks like a broken man.

He's almost...

Disturbing and hurried, isn't it?

How he...

Charles de Klerk's almost the same, but they're both experiencing the same challenges.

Well, he was completely bemused, wasn't he?

It's like when they said that's pole position.

That was a terrible line.

You what?

How could he possibly be pole position?

But then they throw it away as only Ferrari can, and you've got two drivers that just,

in very different ways, are being very open and emotional.

This is just what we've got to do, what's happening.

It feels like there's a bit of a tug of war between, obviously, Charles is the established,

they've kind of built, had built the team around him, hadn't he?

Then Lewis has come in, and Lewis has been quite public in saying all the work he's

done to tell them where he thinks the car's at and what it needs and what he'd like.

And so he's obviously doing what he can to try and steer the car in more in his

direction.

You don't really know, like, on results, you'd say Charles is much more comfortable in

the car than Lewis, but you'd expect that if the car's been designed around Charles

anyway.

But that's an additional bit of friction within a team that always seems quite complicated.

I think Lewis is, it's a different frustration because Charles is obviously getting pretty

much the most out of the car, more often than not.

He seems frustrated at the team and the car because he's delivering, whereas for Lewis,

I think it bothers him that he's not extracting the most out of what is a difficult package.

That's going to be killing him, isn't it?

And it's weird because, I mean, this is Lewis Hamilton.

You've never thought, oh, Lewis isn't getting the most out of it.

He's always been absolutely on it compared to his teammates as well, but something's

not clicking.

So is that, yeah, he's been so hard on himself because he knows that he can do,

he feels he should be doing more.

But actually, if the car's the car, that's what you can do.

And if it can't, that's not a great look for Ferrari.

If it's, if you have got a car that only one person can get anything from it.

That doesn't happen at any other teams, does it?

Or Red Bull.

Yes, exactly.

I think maybe that's the nature of the cars.

Perhaps now is, they are much more designed around a driver.

But McLaren, two drivers getting the most out of that car.

Maybe.

And it's not as if it's, Oscar's always going to get polled and win and Lando picks up

and he's not doing the bot-axe roll, is it?

They are going hell for leather, hang for tongue in every practice session,

every qualification session, every race.

Those two are just knocking the shit out of each other.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's, and the result, actually the result, like Lando's results have been

good the last couple of races, haven't they?

But they don't actually reflect how the race was going.

Oscar seemed to be the one that was driving better and then something has happened.

And I know that you don't get luck all the time

and Lando's probably had bad luck and will have more.

But it's a really hard one to judge, isn't it?

Lando's got some momentum, but you think, I don't know, Oscar's just a bit of a,

he seems so level, but when he gets angry, he seems to drive even better.

He doesn't seem to lose his head, he just seems to focus even more.

It's really hard one to call, isn't it?

I don't know if the team are ever going to favour one or the other.

They're so close, if they stay within one race,

win of each other for the second half of the season, how can they really?

I think that because they've always made a big thing of, oh, we let the drivers fight,

so it would have to be mathematically impossible for one of them not to win it,

which is on the basis of this first half of the season isn't going to happen.

It would be brilliant though, wouldn't it?

To manage, I know it's not just Zack Brown, he's done it all,

but he's orchestrated much of it, hasn't he?

To turn that team around from, it was an embarrassment, wasn't it?

Terrible, no sponsors.

For like ten years straight.

And not only have they managed to build a really dominant car,

but they're doing what everyone wants all the teams to do,

which is just strap the drivers in and tell them to not crash into one another.

But otherwise, just race as hard as you possibly can.

It's a real, I can't think of another time, maybe apart from, I don't know,

Mansoul and PK or something, like when they just hated one another.

You know, we're driving super aggressively.

I can't think of another time where...

Yeah, not with teammates, has it?

No, it's just been...

Nico and Louis were quite heated.

Yeah, I think that was more when that Bahrain battled.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that was few and far between, I think,

when you look back a bit of Barcelona in Barcelona.

Yeah, Austria, they came together as well, Spa.

But that was over a number of seasons.

But they've never let...

They've always had a clear number one driver after that, haven't they?

After Nico retired.

They've never gone back to that plan.

And that was very much a mathematical thing

and there seemed to be an advantage to one driver

to get that mathematical advantage

and then you get the rear gunner support, don't you?

I don't know whether it's just because I'm a huge Louis fan

and I'm just focusing on Hamilton and Ferrari,

but I don't feel excited by this championship battle

in a weird way because even though it's super close

and they are fighting for wins all the time,

maybe it's just because they're two drivers

that aren't yet world champions and aren't yet established.

So it doesn't feel like there's a lot at stake

if you're clutching a Titan.

Yeah, it's not like two greats meeting

and sort of like...

Or an established champion being taken on by a...

There's not really the stakes there.

I think it's everything, isn't it?

I don't think the stakes could be any higher

because the rules change next year.

Neither of them, it's unlikely,

but it could be that neither of them are in a winning car

ever again in their careers.

McLaren's focus must be so much on this season

they might drop back.

I think every race in every championship

I think is crucial, isn't it?

Yes, that's where you can make or not break your career

if you're Lewis or something,

but if you're those two guys...

The pressure's huge, isn't it?

It's really, really important, isn't it?

It probably could be the first...

The only time for a number of years

is that you're in with a shout.

You can't take anything for granted, can they?

To Alonso, we thought Alonso would win.

I think the rule changes next year are so big

that you just don't know what the competition will do

and is Red Bull sort of dragging that donkey,

is Max dragging that donkey around every race

way above the car's capability.

But what have they been working on the next year?

I think from what I've read,

it's a power train formula.

They're trying to make the aero

significant in terms of how the cars deliver their lap time,

but it's not the principal contributor

to how good the car is.

And I think all the engines are within about 10ps

or something, aren't they?

So I've heard, but that doesn't say how they...

With circuits, they'll maybe sue...

Yeah, I think the rule changes are...

They change everything, don't they?

But I think the powertrains are...

There's more focus on the powertrains than the aero.

Yeah, more critical, I think, than they have been.

And there's quite a mix up

in terms of who's providing the powertrains

and there's some switches between teams, aren't there?

So I don't think anything's given now, is it?

Yeah.

But I think that's...

For the second half, it is for...

Not only at the front,

but I think for those midfield teams,

apart from helping, which we might come on to,

but there's teams that are scoring points,

which is obviously in terms of budget and funding and stuff,

is really important.

And those teams as well are looking at it.

This is our opportunity to score podiums.

You look at how Salba reacted

when Hülkenberg finally got his podium.

It's that opportunity Aston Martin mentioned in another podcast.

You know, that's a now a midfield team with...

Well, it was in the last race,

but it might not be...

Yeah, it seems so unpredictable.

But in terms of the Constructors' Championship,

it's so close because at one race you'll dominate,

the next you won't,

so you're constantly taking points out of each other.

But we now know what the teams are worth as well.

That's the Martin have sold their share from themselves.

But that's valued the team at $3 billion,

so a midfield team is $3 billion.

And so therefore that is an important thing for all the teams.

So fighting for Constructors' points is even more important

because you've got them to go to market

of we're worth this much and we're going to do this.

The way the cars are in the racing is at the moment.

It makes it very hard.

It's what everyone wants, isn't it?

And what you kind of know is that most of the grid,

if you stuck most of the drivers in a McLaren,

unless they find they can't deal with the pressure

of actually being in a competitive car,

they're going to be there or thereabouts, aren't they?

So when Aston's on form,

suddenly Lance Stroll is qualifying sixth or whatever he did

and Fernando's fifth,

but then two races previously,

he was out in Q1, 20th or something.

He's so hard to gauge.

The Portoletto start of the year you think is a bit overrated.

But again, I read because of the restriction in testing,

he's really learning as he goes.

But he's won every championship he's been in

and suddenly he seems like a force to be reckoned with, doesn't he?

With Q, isn't it? There's no testing.

You're learning that Mercedes and every race, every test.

But he's kind of struggling now.

He started off well and now he sort of seems to be struggling.

He sort of reached a point in the car.

Portoletto was struggling and now whether the team's running better

since Jonathan's taken charge.

Right, well, that's the car for this year.

We're thinking of 26 and we'd be back stronger

so don't worry about it.

I think it's also because these ground effect cars

seem really tricky to drive

and because the quali is so close,

the tenth of a second can be five places.

They seem like they're on an off-edge

and if you push just a little bit too much

you're dropping way down the order

and the less experienced guys are really suffering with that

at certain points.

Then when they nail it, they're right up there

so it's like an inconsistency.

And it's the blink of an eye.

I know it's a cliche, isn't it?

But I don't think we can comprehend

just how fine the margins are in the driving

set up and there's so many variables, aren't there,

and things that affect the way those cars

will perform from lap to lap with wind direction

and any car that any normal person drives

nothing really makes any difference

to how it feels and performs, does it?

You never driven a car that's that sensitive

and that finely balanced.

I think it's easy to sit in your armchair

and look at the ghost lap and go,

yeah, he's pretty lost it there.

It does blow my mind how close it is now

between drivers in the same team

but also between other drivers in other cars together

given that they're all prototype cars, aren't they?

Every time they run, they're probably running new parts.

Testing something.

I mean, they're designed to run to finish the race

plus one lap pretty much and they just sort of

collapse and need rebuilding, don't they?

They're such fine margins in the engineering of them and...

Like, you'd ride Liam Lawson off, wouldn't you?

Like, he had an absolute nightmare at Red Bull

then he had a really hard time to start with racing balls

but now Haja had a terrible first race

but then he's been absolutely mega.

But now Lawson is getting better.

He's so hard to...

I can't remember a time where F1 was like that though

because it used to be quite categorized

like you had a pretty qualified team

there might be a 10 or two separating them

and then there'd be a gap to the midfield

but now it's just all...

It was Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull

with the top three and then...

and they'd be quite close

and then the midfield would be some way off those top three

but would be quite close together in their midfield

and their towel end again would be close

but they'd be a way off the midfield

so you got races where you were three packs effectively running with each other

but now it's...

they're not... I mean the gap...

it's rare, I think it's Austria they were lapping cars...

That's a short lap though isn't it?

It's a short lap but some of the circuits

they're very rare now

unless they've had an extra pit stop or something's happened

they tend to be finishing on the same lap

but finishing gap is quite tight isn't it?

It's not winning by a minute or anything

it's winning by seconds

I wonder if some of that is because there's been a period of stability

with the regs and so teams have all settled on relatively...

It's probably the cost cap as well isn't it?

Like a big team if they've gone in the wrong direction

they could spend their way out of that

but now if they've got restricted wind tunnel time

and restricted budgets and there's only so much they can do

I know this season is slightly odd because they're all

to a greater or lesser extent they've been focusing on next year's cars

but I think it's so competitive

I don't know how much

we'll just pull the covers off that next weekend and run it

they're still doing some development work

I think you can't afford just the value of sports teams now

you can't afford to go out of 2025

we just run last year's car with a new livery

with the folks on 26 because...

The perception is everything isn't it?

Because you need that for the 2026 and onwards

you need that position and standing and status

and if you stand still

the teams around you won't

they will be developing

and that seems to be what's happened at Alpine

Alpine's a weird one isn't it?

Because they have occasional flashes where they do really well

but I don't know whether that's Gasly out driving the car

I think that's Gasly doing a bit of a max with the Red Bull

isn't it? They're both out driving that car

and out performing

But then Williams will do that

but then they seem to have been having a really bad run

Science seems a bit lost doesn't he?

And then sometimes they'll pop up in top 6

They're going from race to race

and one week, this is perfect

Brilliant, don't change the thing

Next race, well this is undriveable, what have you done?

I think it's not to change anything

But it's track temperatures isn't it?

It's tyres as well

It's the nature of the track

Every single thing changes

in so many different ways

between weekends

when you look at it simplistically

and see it as the same playing field

every other weekend

or whatever the cadence is

The summer break is quite an odd one

because there must be a Grand Prix on the track

I still have two weeks

or it's still a week

What do you think with 24 races

surely there must be one?

Can they have a three week or two week break?

They'll keep their sanity and then fall over

They're going to come back

Well quite a lot of the

news happened beforehand

with Christian departing

That's true, there's a lot of news before the season

There's a lot, yeah

Just that run-in

into the second half of the season

So what's the gossip then, Stuart?

You must have it

You must have a bit of gossip from somewhere

On what? Alpine maybe

Alpine maybe

I've heard that

Christian and Flav

will be taken on Alpine

at some point

Obviously Dimeo

Luca Dimeo has left Renault

and he was a big driving force

Is that buying

because Alpine's got a weird structure anyway

because it's got half of Hollywood equity

and half the golfing

footballers, golfers

all kinds of people being wheeled out

as investment funds

into Alpine

I think

Luca Dimeo was very much

the driving force behind Alpine

being a very front and centre motorsport

brand

So you had Le Mans

you had F1

You had the Alpine cars

road cars and stuff

With him gone

New CAO comes in

the pressures that car companies are under

with their financial results

and you've got a Formula 1 team

running around at the back of the grid

it's been quite an easy decision

And it doesn't have an obvious connection

unless you love the sport

and the idea of your brand being Formula 1

there's very little point in doing it

I guess for somebody

So then you've got

how do you

if someone comes along with an offer

to get you out of

out of this

and you run the team, bar the team

and send it to someone else who is maybe interested

because we know what Le Mans Cadillac went to

become the 11th team on the grid

Separatory

and Christian

Horner are like the

front men

That's a wild combination

Aren't you sure Flav's still banned

isn't he from owning a team or running a team

No I think that's

Well he's allowed back in the paddock

I think he got around it with his job title

it's something strange

like he's technically not allowed to be involved

in the operations

but he's always there

and wears the shirt and sits on the pit wall

and is in the garage all the time

Yes I think they will be

I mean when Horner was

ousted from Red Bull

Flavio Breatory was one of the first people to publicly

say incredible legacy

wish you the best for the future

He's done an extraordinary job

can you imagine if he was a football manager

or something and he just won

seven European cups

and then led a national team

to a world

It's kind of that level of achievement

In another sport

It's being a football manager

a young football manager that everyone goes

you're a bit young and then you've

built a team that is

pretty much unstoppable

He's basically Alex Ferguson but 30 years younger

wasn't he really and created a team

of people and drivers

and culture within a team

that was quite unlike any other

very disruptive

I guess it just rubbed

everyone's nose up the wrong way

I suspect the whole way the team went about

it was deliberately a bit maverick

Yeah it was a bit provocative wasn't it

you're all stuffy F1 teams

and he quite liked that

I think the Netflix stuff

has probably shown

they like to have the team bosses playing

they kind of typecast him don't they

so I don't think he came out

of some of that particularly well

with the way he was

maybe portrayed

or maybe that's the way he is I don't know

you can't even judge from what you see

but it is obviously

some people have a great deal of respect

for him other people

I guess within the same paddock

and the paddocks notoriously

it would be interesting won't you

because I think it would be one of those

people when they're in that role

it's very decisive you either

be an amazing team boss

or you think he's an arrogant little

sort of egotistical

gobsite

Is that your opinion she?

Are you from the legal department?

But you then

you look back on their career

and go blind with that look at what they achieved

and it's the same with

at a time when Schumacher

and Ferrari were dominating

oh they're killing F1 this is boring

and now everyone looks back

just how good they were

you put it into perspective

how that achievement is

to do that

time and time again same with Mercedes

and when Lewis was there

to do that

repeating that success I think

people outside of any sport

don't appreciate how hard it is

to stay at the very beginning

there's a lot of moving parts aren't there

in an organisation with 1,200 people

the strongest leaders

and regardless of what you think of someone's personality

when they're on TV

and being interviewed and stuff like that

how provocative they are

portrayed on a documentary

the Netflix thing

they wouldn't have achieved that success

without Christian Horner at the top

regardless of what you think of him

and that has to be

and I think that is you know

and everyone else in the Paddock

is very respectful of him

he's achieved and everyone will say

well you had the best team

you had Adrian Newey

you had Jonathan Wheatley

at least in part responsible

for bringing those people in

you still have to bring them in

retain them and get them to

give them the resource

and the support they need to deliver

what you've employed them to do

and attract the drivers

knowing when to let Seb go

and you took a punt on Max

a young driver

going into a team

Helmut Marco though

I mean he's the ultimate James Bond baddie

isn't he

but I never quite know

the organisation is so mysterious

because he's just been the other permanent

fixture

and then to have a figure like Helmut Marco

in the team

who wants his actual roles

but he seems to be the one that

moves the chess pieces doesn't he

with the drivers

and maybe with

more other team personnel

but he's actually

the most

interesting person in the paddock

in a way isn't he

because he's just this slightly sinister

ruthless character

but if

he is the kind of talent

scout

then you think of the drivers that have been through that

they've had a few misses but they've

been great

well I do, he's a Danny Rick

Carlos Sainz

Albon went through and got spat out the other side

but he's still a really talented driver

Max was a really talented driver

Vettel was a really talented driver

Mark Webber was a really talented

you know they have had some

consistently some really incredibly

good drivers

where the drop off has been so noticeable

it's the churn rate that's quite hard

to get your head around isn't it

the best, then how the hell are you expected to perform

it is a bit like football managers

where they're very keen to fire them

and it seems to be

with drivers isn't it, are you not performing

we get rid of you after six races

just as they're bedding in, oh we go

and then how disruptive is that

into a team, when you're going in

when the other driver

is the best, the fastest

most sort of aggressive

I'm trying to think of any of the driver swaps

where any of the

drivers have gone in to replace someone else's actually

whether it's been

worthwhile

I'm not sure

I think given how many

drivers that we know are quality drivers

have gone into that second seat

and not performed

and then maybe gone back into the racing

and then performed

there has to be something

whether it's

preferential treatment or upgrades or whatever

or the style of the car

a style other than max

I think that's the only explanation

and that's the only

bit of a team

that doesn't make sense to me because

teams historically

within the drivers championship

is important

but for a team within the constructors championship

it's far more important and if you

tie one hand behind your back if you put a week

if you design the car that only suits one driver

and the other driver just can't get out

you're penalising yourself

to appease

a driver and having everyone

talk about the world championship

I wonder with

max with

some of the stuff he said in monkey's

Ford

film where he was talking about

that particular

issue and I'm sure he's not going to go into great detail

but he did just say well it's identifying

the

weakness in the car and either

changing your driving to get around it or just

that is the main problem

this is what we need to work on

and he does seem to have a completely

just

brilliantly

binary ability to

it's how he decides his overtaking maneuvers

or just how he conducts himself

is absolutely

no doubt no question

no remorse

it's just

this is what he needs doing

and maybe the team responds

to that because he can

do that and

he's blisteringly quick isn't he

whatever decision he makes for the car

they know well it's going to be

I really like max

I didn't dislike him

even though some of the things he

does are hard to

hard to like but I think he's

become a much more

he's given a little bit more

of his character

because he's not winning all the time

and you can see that when he does drive out

of his skin like in Japan

or whatever he can really see it in

him and he's absolutely

buzzing because it's not just

turning up win

go home and race on the city

he's having to earn it isn't he

and you can see it when he's driving

that car looks

an edgy

he's a fascinating

character isn't he

and I think all the cars seem to be

able to change their characteristics

at every circuit

and he seems to be the one

that isn't impacted

the McLaren seem to work everywhere

but regardless

of how the Red Bull performs Max seems to be

able to drag it

further up the grid he's just quite level isn't he

he can adapt to the challenge they find

on a Friday morning practice of

oh god this isn't going to work this weekend

right I'm going to have to do it like this

it's going to have to change it

I don't know just agile in his

thinking isn't he and attitude

and he's not just turning up

and if he's not on pole and fastest lap

and it doesn't seem to phase in

he still seems to want to have a fight

for whether he's fighting for the last

podium place and he knows and the McLaren

is going to walk it or whether he's fighting for

7th and 8th I think Alonso is a bit like that

he'll drive the wheels off something or he'll try

a totally different for 14th place

like 40 laps on the same tires

and then there's nowhere and then suddenly

I like that there's definitely what

sets those guys apart

doesn't it?

Hülkenberg hasn't qualified well this year

but he's always climbed in every race

it's the experience

it's the experience of knowing right we're not going to

qualify but let's work on a race strategy

and having that confidence

but then the backing of the team

and again the backing of the team comes from

someone at the top so we bat the driver

if they say something you can see

Jonathan's influence

Jonathan Wheatley I would say

at Sal because they were a bit

quiet and they turn up

they participate but they didn't

really seem to be any

kind of contender did they

and then suddenly they

they were just in a holding pattern

for next year with Audi coming on board and

they were quite happy just to make up

well we got to turn up because otherwise

we'd be on this spot whereas now

we can't do this

it's just his mindset

you're not wired up to

just turn up

and they've got a lot to prove haven't they

when that car turns up with an Audi logo

on it everyone's going to

suddenly expect them to be doing

proper things with it

because Audi don't turn up to

anything and not expect to win at some

stage do they

I still can't believe we're only halfway

through the season and we've done

14 races or 13 races or something

it's till December and then

they've already announced calendar for

next year with

Madrid coming on

to another street circuit

so you've got two races in Spain

which not quite sure

where the rationale comes

for that because it seems to be a country

motorbike fans and

you've got Carlos

Fernando

street circuit and Barcelona

but

it's

the second half of the season

you need a good world, going back to your point

you need a good world championship fight at the front

because we know as you get to the second half

of the season it's going to those circuits

that perhaps aren't the best

for racing but it'll be fascinating this year

because the cars are so close

it's going to be good, I like to think I'm neutral

in the Oscar

but actually when they're really

like hungry or whatever

a race like that

I feel it

like you know where your allegiance lies

don't you in those moments

who do you want to come up with

I think I'm team

Lando, I'd love to see Lando do it

but my head

my heart wants him to win but

my head thinks

I think Oscar is to lose

Oscar is more

he seems to be more

clinical isn't he

more clinical, Lando's got the emotion

he's so calm Piastri

I find him almost spookily calm

and nothing fails him at all

no matter what position he finds himself in

whether he's

they've

they've switched strategies for both drivers

and Lando looks like on paper

he's just clearly going to walk away with this

but he just has that

ability to read the race of where he is

and what he needs to do

and when he needs to put the pressure on

whereas Lando has that emotion

you hear it and obviously the radio

broadcasts are selective of what they

want you to hear but Lando seems to be

more emotive

and get bogged down a bit sometimes

but it makes you feel like

he's more normal

and it means

it means as much to all of them doesn't it

but one just portrays it more overtly than

the other perhaps and Lando's got

a cool car collection

I'm beginning neuro

part share

in a F40 that had a bump

30 years

but yes it's going to be

so what do we want? we want Lewis

to

win every race

I think it's in there

it's stuff like China

it can't be a fluke

but you don't fluke pole position and walking away from the field

I just hope Ferrari has a good 2026 package

yeah yeah

and it should suit your style a bit more

because that car

the current car hasn't got issues with its ride height

yeah yeah

so George says

George the best number 2 on the grid

Alan Partridge

so there's

a new circuit

there's only one new circuit I think next year isn't it

the Madrid street circuit

where would we want

what is there an old circuit

that you want to bring back

or is there somewhere new you think F1 should go to

wow

old circuit

are you going to be old duff isn't it

well yes

I think the Landau Grand Prix would go down

yeah

would that be like a 192 lap race

would a modern F1 car fit

on Landau

might be siding the chicane

but I think it'd be doable

a lot of Landau laps

this would be mental

if we could bring a track from the past

back is one of the best tracks I've ever driven

was I did a test at

Charade which is at

Clermont-Ferrand where they had the French Grand Prix

back in the 60s

and the old track is

miles it's a bit like old spar

it's much bigger than eSpar

but it's still massive elevation change

it'd be epic to see them race there

it could never happen it could never get an FAA

license now but that would be amazing

to see them race there

scary

very scary

I don't know it's a tricky one isn't it

I know there was talk of a London Grand Prix

wasn't there like a street circuit

I think that would be

that would be pretty exciting because I'd love to go to

Azerbaijan

I think that looks

like such an exciting

ridiculous circuit

with that tiny tight bit through the car

friends did peeking to Paris

and part of the route went through

Azerbaijan stopped it back out and they just said

not only was it an amazing

place to arrive in and drive through

but the city as well was

stunning you can see

I think street circuits can be

pretty amazing actually

I think we always think of street circuits

as Monaco

I love the spectacle of Monaco and I'd love to go to

Monaco and see the wreck but

it's about everything

it's everything

qualifying is the highlight of the Monaco weekend

see them on it on that track and then the race

is always there

the circuit is designed made optimise for one car

on the track at any time

they're so big now I found the Monaco race a bit

embarrassing to watch this year because they just don't fit

on that track anymore

I can't remember the two drivers who came together

on lap one someone went down the inside

and there just wasn't space for two cars

the other car crashed

Baku or Jedda

Jedda looks absolutely terrified

I can't believe that track is allowed

it just looks designed to kill someone

just have a think of who's sponsors

Formula One that may be based in that country

what would you

is that one you want to bring back

God

Molly's getting his brain into gear

there's so many to choose from

but I like

that you know the cars wouldn't that you'd have to

completely remodel any old track

for them to

they have to build one special car with massive ride height

to manage Monza banking or

something

Monaco or something

Hockenheim

because with DRS

with those two massive straights

they would just all be taken

8 DRS's

we were like the MD500

you don't want to lead the last lap

you want to be in about 14th

on the last lap so you can draft

drafting into

those chicanes that they created

that could be

run if it was raining because the rain would have nowhere to go

would have that farce

hang in the trees wouldn't it

but yeah old Hockenheim I always like that

just because that's a proper just

speed isn't it

take all the air off and when they reconfigured it

for the new circuit

it kind of didn't really become a circuit

yeah not the same at all

but didn't sort of have any

features to it lost all its

features as a track

what do you want to bring back

apart from the one that's on your doorstep

maybe magnicle

I know the racing

was amazing but I just love seeing

the first sector super quick

then the hairpin

the big stop and it was just amazing to watch

the panning shots as they go through the chicanes

although that was

in the world of track limits now

if you look at any of the old onboard

straight lining it all

coming on to the start finish track

also takes about 4 days to get to Magnicourt

if you start in Magnicourt

it's that part of France

that seems to be a bit of a

mead of triangle

let's just wait for the next corner

let's just keep going down that straight

ah Le Mans actually

I'd like there to be a Grand Prix at Le Mans

they did it in the 60s once

that would mix

what we miss at Hockenheim with the long straights

imagine going through the Porsche car

that would be a hell of a race

that would be wild

that would be a good one though

the engines would be like

20,000 RPM or something

imagine the blow ups

coming down the straight

need to make that happen Stu

can you imagine trying to get the ACO involved

with the FIA to do a next one

you've got podcast influence to bear

that's it they'll buckle

and we're out

who do we want to

so we've got Cadillac next year

who do we think should go in

who deserves those two C's

well there's lots of rumours aren't there

Bottas and Checo

without wishing to sound like Tiff

Nadelle

should it be for younger drivers rather than bringing

we'd like to think they'd be an American driver

or someone from that side

Alex Pallou

that's part of American racing

culture

I'd love to see, it won't happen because he's a McLaren

driver but Pato Ward

which is such a talent

I'd love to see what he could do in F1

you never know, Zach's always up for a deal

maybe he could be on the conment

could be online

it'd be nice to bring some

new names in

just to be a bit more of a wild car

but are they going to invest that much money

in someone who's not raced

to develop a car

and I think that's actually the most

interesting pairing as a spectator

and a service driver you know

a wild newcomer to test against

surely Brad Pitt's got to be right out there

for things on that going

stranger things

a great episode of Drive to Survival

it is amazing

he's a 61 year old actor

I don't think he would survive would he

I don't think he would

but going back to the established

an established driver

and a rookie

do you take an established driver from a current team

or do you take

a bring one back from

who hasn't been in a car

for a year

two years and how much does that

would that be a hindrance

but the cars are all new so actually everyone's starting

Danny Rick's name kept popping up

next to Cadillac but he's said on record

he's not going to go on TO4

he's got to be done hasn't he

and the heart's going to be

done isn't it

he should race some other stuff

he should do the mom

yeah or was he

something I don't know

it'd be fun to see someone like that hooning around

in that sort of stuff

I don't know

Cadillac is such a weird

brand to be in Formula 1

I can't imagine a

you can't associate anybody there can you really

Boss Hog I don't know

I don't know

Paul Trickle

put a NASCAR driver in that would be interesting

maybe not

yeah it's going to be

because whatever way there's going to be

two new drivers isn't there there's not

yeah they're not replacing

a team

and how does

just how do you go

you know Audi are coming in but they're coming in

with an established team with

personnel who know how it runs

they've got drivers with the experience

but your Cadillac you're coming in

to a grueling

24-25

race series

there's probably a new circuit that we forgot to mention

that's on the calendar and new regs

for everyone

and a rookie that would be a big ask

yeah two rookies or one established driver

but their experience

because they're not racing at the moment

is anyone going to release a driver

doing all this work this season and also

on 26 car are you going to release a driver

from

your team

maybe someone taking a year out because

I read an interview with Fernando Alonso and someone said

you know at the year I've forgotten how old he is for 40 something

42

44 yeah I can't remember

and he said you know just how are you still so competitive

and he said I think it's because I had two years

out it was just maybe not of his own design

I don't think he intended to be out

but he said that time gave him the chance to recharge

mentally and physically

but he's got another year on his contract

hasn't he I think it lasted until the end of

26

but I think there's

you know can

can McLaren keep Oscar

and to your part Pato Ward can

Zach keep Lando and Oscar

happy together

because at the moment it just about

works doesn't it

does Red Bull need a proper strong number two

for Max?

I think the number two can enter me at Red Bull

by Horner is gone

you know that's the big it wasn't

just the allegations at the start of the year it's the whole

problem of

it's another season of not winning

not being competitive as a team

for the Constructors title

it is bizarre isn't it to have that

consistent huge gap between

the two cars

and I feel like in any other car

you would see maybe a couple of tents

between Max and like a really good driver

we had it with Czecho didn't you

being Q3

he was better than we thought

he was like three or four tents off on average

which is still quite a lot

on his day he would win a race

but just like Yuki's

a fun character isn't he

but I can't

ever imagine him being in a position

where he could win a race

in that car

I think it's just Max's ability to

manage a car that's

mathematically quick

in the wind tunnel but might be really tricky

to drive and need all that sensitivity

whereas the other drivers

if you put them in a normal

car one that's not so tricky

they probably get really close I think

but it's just that

extra talent that Max has

allows him to exploit this

tricky car he is a freak

isn't he but I think a lot of like the stuff

he says about sim racing and

learning to drive

different cars like understanding how to

drive a GT3 car

and he'll come in and race against people

and the real GT3 cars

but he likes the challenge

of comparing himself with people

he knows better

in that particular car

I know quite a lot of

the others do

sim race but I don't think any of them

do it to the degree that he does

didn't he do a 24 hour sim race

during a Grand Prix weekend?

I think his team won it as well

wasn't it? Was that Monza?

I don't remember that

he was up at 3 in the morning

doing his stint in the car on the sim race

it would be fascinating when he leaves at the end of

26 doesn't he

what will Red Bull do then

so we leave it there rather than

just speculating wildly

fun though it is

James might start ranting about

commentators

I can't believe you said that about Murray

unbelievable

that is the end of the Evo F1

special podcast

probably be a series of one

maybe we can do an end of season

maybe do an end of season

see how wrong we were

let's see if we can get

Crofty on or something like that

he knows his stuff

thank you very much

Yousif, James, Dickey

thank you

we will see you for a normal podcast

next week

thank you very much

thank you too

F1 special: Horner's departure, Alpine rumours and Formula 1 at Le Mans | The evo podcast | Episode 27

Ford Maverick

Ferrari F40

About this episode

Original notes