Car Dealer Podcast Apr 10, 2026

FCA crackdown on sale or return, Jaecoo 7 tops sales charts, and Motorpoint back in profit – with Clive Messenger, episode 253

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Company

Autotrader

Autotrader is a website where people look for cars to buy. Dealers use it to get in front of more customers and generate more sales.

Term

buying signals

Buying signals are clues from a website that someone is more likely to buy a car. Dealers can use that to focus on the customers who are ready to make a deal.

Concept

leads through the door

It means people are getting in touch because they’re interested in the cars. Dealers want those messages to turn into test drives and purchases.

Concept

EVs

EVs are electric cars that run on a battery instead of petrol or diesel. When fuel gets expensive, more people start considering EVs.

Company

Carwow

Carwow is a website/app where you can compare car prices and get offers. It makes it easier to shop for a car without visiting lots of dealerships.

Car

The Tesla Model 3 is an electric car, so it uses electricity instead of petrol. The “long-range” version is meant to help you drive farther on a single charge. In the podcast, the speaker says they bought one and really like it.

Car

Tesla Model

The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gasoline. People talk about it a lot because it’s designed to be practical for daily driving and it’s widely available. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as part of someone’s EV purchases.

Term

charged it overnight

They’re talking about plugging the car in to charge while they sleep. That’s a common way to make an electric car convenient for everyday driving.

Term

interest rates

Interest rates are what lenders charge for loans. If they go up, car loans cost more each month, so fewer people buy.

Concept

rebrand a company and come up with a whole new name

Rebranding means changing the name and image of a business. It’s a big deal because people get used to a brand over time, and changing it can affect sales and awareness.

Brand

Renault

Renault is a well-known car brand. In this episode, it’s mentioned because Jaecoo’s sales have moved ahead of Renault’s in that month’s rankings.

Brand

BYD

BYD is a big car company, especially known for electric vehicles. The speaker mentions its ranking to show how the market share picture looks across EV-focused brands.

Concept

lease deals

A lease deal is when you pay monthly to use a car for a few years. It’s often used to make the monthly cost look low and encourage people to sign up.

Term

£650 a month

They’re comparing another monthly payment number—£650. The point is that this higher payment likely won’t convince many people to buy or lease.

Brand

DS

DS is a car brand that sells more premium versions of cars than the mainstream brands. The speaker is saying DS is struggling because not many people are buying them.

Brand

Fiat

Fiat is a well-known car brand, especially for smaller cars. The host is saying Fiat sales also dropped a lot, so the overall picture is still negative.

Brand

Volkswagen

Volkswagen is one of the biggest mainstream car brands. The speaker is saying it won’t vanish, but its sales are down compared with stronger premium brands.

Company

FCA

The FCA is the UK’s financial regulator. Here, it’s stepping in to protect customers from risky business practices that can leave people out of pocket.

Concept

administrators

Administrators step in when a business can’t pay its debts. They take control of what’s left, and in this case they’re still dealing with cars that customers thought they owned.

Concept

sale or return model

This is a way dealers handle cars where they can sell them, but if they don’t, they can send them back. The problem is that if the dealer goes under, it can be unclear who the car really belongs to and consumers may lose money.

Brand

Mitsubishi

Mitsubishi is a car manufacturer. Here they’re talking about working with dealers in the UK—basically who gets to sell Mitsubishi cars.

Concept

business case

A “business case” is the justification for a decision based on expected costs, risks, and returns. Here, it frames the brand’s return as something that may be strategically right but financially difficult given the market conditions.

Concept

volumes

In car sales, “volumes” just means how many cars they expect to sell. If the target is modest, they’re planning for fewer sales than a bigger brand.

Company

Motorpoint

Motorpoint is a company that sells used cars in the UK. They’re talking about how the business went from losing money to making profit again.

Concept

pre-tax profit

Pre-tax profit is the amount a business earns before paying income taxes. It’s a common metric in financial reporting because it allows comparisons of operating performance without tax differences.

Concept

turnaround

A turnaround is when a business that was struggling starts doing much better. Here, they’re saying Motorpoint moved from losing money to making profit.

Concept

used car market

The used car market is just the business of selling cars that aren’t brand new. When people want to buy used cars more (or fewer), prices and how fast cars sell can change a lot.

Concept

demand

Demand is how many buyers want to purchase used cars at different prices. Dealer performance often hinges on demand because it affects pricing power, how long cars sit on the lot, and how quickly inventory is replenished.

Concept

being slick and reacting

“Being slick and reacting” describes how dealers and marketplaces manage pricing, sourcing, and marketing quickly as conditions change. In used cars, reacting fast can mean adjusting purchase offers, re-pricing inventory, and targeting the right buyers to prevent stock from getting stale.

Concept

warranty claim

A warranty claim is when a car needs a repair and the cost is covered by the warranty. The speaker is guessing the missed calls were about a warranty-related issue.

LIVE

The car dealer podcast is sponsored by Autotrader.

John, have you ever wondered why I, along with 14,000 other dealers, choose to partner

with Autotrader?

Well, actually, I didn't think so.

I'll tell you anyway, with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us

with more engaged car buyers and delivers more deals than anyone else in the UK.

And now, with the launch of buying signals, we'll have brand new insights on every deal

showing how likely a customer is to buy the car they're interested in.

Plus, as someone who set out to use AI and data as much as possible in my business, I've

found their technology, data and tools genuinely invaluable.

But when I do get stuck, which is, let's face it, most of the time, Autotrader is always

on hand and committed to supporting us to get the very best from our package.

To find out how they can help you, visit trade.autotrader.co.uk

Welcome back to the Cardiola Podcast, where we pick our favourite stories of the week

and ask an industry guest to choose which were the best.

I'm John Ray, and joining me this week, always proud owner of the largest collection of automatic

VWUps in the Northern Hemisphere, is James Bagger, of course.

James, hi.

Are you here to tell us about Jaguars this week?

No, not this week.

I think I'll listen.

There's probably not enough of that, actually.

We'll put that one to bed, shall we?

John, nice to see you back.

I mean, you've been, well, on your travels, you had a holiday, you were sick.

I wasn't here last week, James, and you weren't, but yes.

I know.

I missed that return, though.

So, like, we're back together.

Have you missed me?

Oh, yeah.

Well, we got sounding enthusiastic, John.

That was terrible.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's like that.

Excellent.

Lovely to see you, John.

How have you been?

I've been very well, James, as you well know, because I've been working with you all week.

Yeah.

Yes, fine.

It's been lovely weather.

It's been very nice, hasn't it?

But people don't care about the weather, do they?

What do they care about?

Well, it's just an update, then, because you...

I was spending your dealership a little bit this week, and there's this thing called the

phone, and it's not really been ringing.

No, it's not been ringing.

Which is concerning, because you've also got this thing called 45 cars in stock when you

normally have 12.

Yeah.

That's a bit of a problem, isn't it?

And Nigel, who was doing some video for us, did some AI generation of some tumbleweed

rolling across the front of the dealership, and you actually believed it was real.

That's how quiet it is, really.

I did.

I should point out it wasn't the tumbleweed, it was a hay bale.

That's what the AI managed to do.

It was believable, given the weird antics that go on in your particular industrial estate.

This is true.

It has been quiet, though.

It has been quiet.

We've taken a reservation this morning, though, so that's not so bad.

And I've just looked at the phone, and there's a WhatsApp, and somebody wants to see a car

this afternoon.

So fingers crossed, John, we start getting some out the door.

It's been a quiet Easter.

We did a few over the bank holiday weekend, but not loads.

We were sort of hoping to sell lots.

Did I tell you I've increased our auto trader package recently as well?

Because we've got so many cars in stock, we've increased the number that we can advertise,

and we're sort of thinking as a result of that, we'll get loads of leads through the door,

but not so much.

It's been rather quiet.

And a little bit soul-destroying, in some respects.

We're trying to keep us spirits up, but it's quite hard at the moment.

I don't know how other people are feeling it, but some of the dealers I've spoken to

are doing all right, especially in the new car world, especially if you're selling Chinese

cars, which I'm sure will come on to this week.

So I wonder whether all of the used car buyers are ending up in a Chinese car dealership at the moment.

Possibly.

Well, at least you...

It is the war, isn't it, really?

At least you've diversified into EVs.

I have.

I bought quite a few EVs over the last two weeks.

Looking at the petrol and diesel prices, it's absolutely crazy, isn't it, at the moment?

I think the last time I went past the petrol station, it was £195 a litre for diesel, which is just crazy.

I filled up my Volvo long-term with petrol £1.65.

So I think at that point in time, people start looking at EVs, don't they?

So I had a little fish around on Carwow and MotoA.

I bought a couple.

I bought a Tesla Model 3 long-range, which I absolutely love.

I can't believe how much car that is for the money.

I spent £11,000 on it.

It's done 90,000 miles, but it's immaculate.

And the tech on it...

I've charged it overnight for the first time.

It's got 300 miles of range.

It's a lot of car for the money.

It really is.

And I bought a few Nissan Leafs.

I see at me electric.

Do you remember those?

No.

No, nobody did.

But yeah, I bought one of those just in the hope that some people are going to be shopping around for some EVs.

But even those are quiet.

So yeah, who knows?

We'll hopefully be able to report back some good news next week, John.

Yeah.

Somebody's going to have to buy a used car eventually.

Anyway, shall I introduce our guest who has more positive things to say than you?

So I guess this week joins us from Korean car company KGM, formerly Sangyong, of course.

Please welcome sales director, Clive Messenger.

Clive, thanks for joining us.

Good morning.

Good morning, James.

Good morning, John.

Nice to see you.

I think last time we crossed paths, it was Mitsubishi days, wasn't it?

Yeah.

It was some time ago.

James, indeed, yeah.

It was.

New world order.

New world order these days.

Well, nice to see you.

What are you seeing out there in the market then?

I've painted a rather negative picture there.

Cheer us up.

Yeah.

I mean, to be fair, we all know what's going on.

You read the headlines and the influx of Chinese brands are taking over, etc.

The reality is that people are still buying cars.

And those that do the right things get the basics right and focus on delivering some

value to the customer are still actually having some success.

So it's not all doom and gloom, but it's a much more competitive environment than what

we've seen for some time.

This is back to pre-COVID kind of territory where the market is very much a push market

rather than a pull market.

And in which case, you have to find little pockets of opportunity and ways that the whole

brand, whether it's the brand, the dealer, or the salesperson within the dealership,

how can they add value to the customer?

We're finding that some of our dealers are having quite a good time of it selling a sensible

number of cars.

So it's not as bad, but it's tough out there.

Yeah.

Do you think the political situation across the world is having an impact on the car market

here?

I mean, dealers are very good at coming up with excuses, aren't they?

I mean, we like to try and blame everything on why we're not selling cars.

One week is the weather, next week it's Iran and a war.

Do you actually think it is having an impact?

Well, certainly people will start to get concerned, won't they, when they start to see the impact.

And I'm not sure that it's really so much the headline of the fuel prices per se.

It's the undercurrent of the knock-on effect of all of these things.

You're starting to see rhetoric around cost of money going up, interest rates not going

to reduce, possibly even increasing, that knocking onto mortgages, et cetera.

And generally what you find with people is that when there is uncertainty, people start

to button down hatches and just maybe drag out or defer that payment or purchase decision

for a bit longer just to see how to landlize really.

So I think also you've got to take into account we are in the midst of the Easter holidays.

And it's been fairly pleasant weather on some of the days, et cetera.

And we do know that that does take people away from car show rooms and to do other things

because they want to maximize the weather whilst it's there.

Yeah, I mean, it's all these little things that you do when you're at home with the family

and you think everybody else is doing exactly the same thing and we're not shopping for cars

and neither are our customers.

So it's nice to be able to have some decent excuses.

Clive, tell us a little bit about how KGM is getting on at the moment then.

So, well, we've been in a period of transition really since rebranding to KGM since 2024.

So the business was previously sangong as most people will know.

The factory takeover has been a real positive for us.

They have invested heavily in product development, which has been great.

What we're starting to see now is the fruits of that labor, should you say?

So we're starting to see more new products coming in, interesting products, compelling products,

but also a little bit different from everything else to a degree really.

So the last couple of years has been a transition.

We've had some growth, which has been great.

And we're kind of now at a point where we're looking forwards to the future

because we've got a fairly new lineup now and by this time next year,

our full lineup will be completely new.

And what we do know is that new products get people excited.

So it's enjoyable at the moment, lots to look forward to, lots of work.

And as you can imagine with everything else going on in the industry

and many new entrants, et cetera, and the competitive nature,

we have to navigate through all of those things as well as just getting excited about new product.

It's a massive decision to rebrand a company and come up with a whole new name.

Lots of car manufacturers spend years building a brand, building the name,

building that established mark on the market.

What was the decision behind changing and has it worked?

Okay, so first things first that we all kind of have to accept is we had no choice.

The business and the brand of Sangyong was purchased by a Korean investor.

The KG Group and they changed name of the brand.

So it was coming. The product name was changing.

And we were given a choice of, did we want to do it early or did we want to kind of roll out over a couple of years?

And we had a lot of debate about this because none of us within this business have ever rebranded a business before.

So you don't really know how it's going to pan out.

But we kind of took the decision and I'm going to use a phrase that probably I'm hoping is okay on this podcast.

But we took a decision that you couldn't be half pregnant with this in terms of, you know, you're either KGM or you're either Sangyong and you can be a bit of both.

So we took a decision to switch pretty much on the 1st of January 2024.

It gave us a great opportunity though to refresh the brand identity.

So we changed all of our dealer partners CI within about three to four months.

We changed all of the magnitude of our vehicle range, et cetera, pretty much immediately.

So it was a lot of work and yeah, did it work?

The reality is we didn't continue with Sangyong.

So you can't really compare.

You don't know how it would have gone if Sangyong would have continued as the brand naming.

So therefore we've got to look at it in terms of has it worked for us in all?

Yeah, it's been a success.

We've got a brand now that is appealing.

Our CI is good looking.

And if I said it properly from a personal perspective,

we've also got a brand name that people can actually pronounce now.

It's very simple.

And spell.

Absolutely.

So, you know, all things are difficult.

One of the things that we did encounter is that, and we didn't really foresee,

is that our rebranding was at a time when kind of the emergence of the new Chinese brands kind of came along at the same time.

And, you know, you can look at that in different ways.

You know, it was more difficult to get cut through in terms of getting recognition of our brand identity.

And we were in some parts being caught up as a new Chinese brand.

And we had to spend some extra time and energy trying to educate the industry and consumers that know we're not a new Chinese brand.

We are very much Korean and we've been around for a long time.

But actually looking at the positives of that timing is that now more than ever before in my 35 years in this industry,

we're seeing that customers are willing to look at something different.

And that brand loyalty or badge snobbery, if you like, is probably at the lowest position that I've ever experienced.

So for us, actually, it was quite good timing because people see us as a new brand.

There's lots of other new brands coming.

And yeah, so it's an opportunity for them to say, yeah, we'll take a look.

I've been amazed by that.

The way that the British consumer has just taken to these new brands so quickly.

I mean, if someone had asked me whether it would happen as fast as it did a few years back,

I would have said never in a million years would people accept these brands so quickly.

And it does play as an advantage, doesn't it?

Give me an idea then of what KGM stands for.

What is the brand?

So the brand really is about being a little bit different.

We use a brand catch line of escape convention.

We're slightly different.

We provide cars that fit the segments that they work in, but they don't look exactly the same as all of the others.

It's just a little bit different.

And that's really what we're about, is just being a little bit different.

Where are you having the most success at the moment?

Success.

Well, we've had multiple successes over the last couple of years.

Pick up was a big success for us.

Certainly over the last three or four years, we've quadrupled our volume of pickup trucks.

That's somewhat been impeded by the wonderful government's decision to target those vehicles and those operators.

But where we have off the back of that had some success is we evolved our Rexton, which was a 7C SUV,

and decided to convert that into a 2C commercial vehicle,

which provided quite a compelling alternative to a double cab pickup truck, low benefiting kind, etc.

So that's been a real success for us.

And we just hit the start of a journey really on something really quite exciting,

which is the Musso EV double cab pickup truck.

Now, 12 months ago, we had the opportunity to introduce this vehicle to the UK and we thought it wasn't right.

An electrified pickup truck doesn't really do everything that an ice pickup truck does.

There has to be some compromises somewhere when you electrify a product in terms of whether it's the range or towing capacity or load capacity, etc.

However, we've been kind of monitoring things and the market and our competitors, etc. with electric pickup trucks.

And we think we've hit on a real opportunity here because the factory of really embraced what we wanted to do here,

which is to introduce an electric pickup truck pretty much at the same price as a diesel one,

so that we give customers choice, you know, whether they want a traditional combustion engine or whether they want to go for electrified vehicle.

There's no premium for it and the product works really well.

It's a really credible double cab pickup truck.

It's got fairly decent range. It's nearly 250 miles worth of range.

It can tow 2.3 tons, etc.

So that kind of ticked a lot of boxes for a lot of people,

but it's also because of its EV powertrain and also its price.

It's actually the lowest benefit in kind.

So at a time when the pickup market is being blurred all about benefit in kind charges and 37% BIK charges treat as a passenger car now,

the beauty here is that this Musso EV is just 4% BIK.

It's 30 quid a month for a 20% taxpayer.

This is really, really potentially a sweet spot for us.

Now, we've been doing quite a bit of activity with it.

It's been really well received, you know, no real negatives.

In fact, no negatives about the product only positives.

We're getting a high level of of inbound inquiries across the spectrum as well from small businesses to large national fleets,

but interestingly from private buyers as well.

So it's, yeah, this is this is kind of, you know, for me, our big potential over the coming 12 months and beyond.

Yeah, I think there's not many of them out there.

John and I were in America a few weeks back, we drove a Rivian electric pickup and we absolutely loved it.

We raved about it.

And you can sort of see where the opportunity is there.

And I suppose that a lot of the big construction firms are really leaning on their green credentials, aren't they?

And I suppose that they're really trying to reduce their CO2 emissions.

I suppose for people like that, it's a real opportunity.

It is.

It's an opportunity for any user really that needs a double cab pickup truck, you know, there are some slight compromises.

But the thing I would kind of beg the question to anybody is, you know, if you've ever tried to put one ton in the back of a one ton pickup truck and drive it,

it's not a pleasant experience.

So people don't really put a ton in the back.

That one ton stipulation was something that was mandated by the HMRC back in 2020 when they were trying to overcut.

Sorry, 2000 when they were trying to overcome this mass migration of people out of passenger car, company cars into double cab pickup trucks to save tax.

You know that the reality is that people don't put a ton in the back of a pickup truck.

So, you know, this is this ticks a lot of boxes.

But going back to your point earlier on about fuel prices, you know, you think about running costs for fleets.

Well, you know, you can you can charge an electric pickup truck for eight quid, you know, at home versus filling a diesel one up for 100 quid.

At the moment, that's quite a healthy saving, isn't it?

Clive, talk to me about the dealer network then. What's that look like?

And are there any opportunities for those people out there who might not be representing you at the moment?

Yeah, I mean, our dealer network, we are we're currently running just over 65 dealer partners.

We have we have a fairly good geographical coverage, although there are some some potential areas or territories that we would like to fill.

You know, namely kind of the Yorkshire area, sort of Cambridge in Essex, East Anglia area and and the one that everybody I think struggles with somewhat is the southeast because of the because of the costs of running businesses, etc.

So so there are some some some opportunities are dealers are dealers are generally kind of only driver operators quite often multi franchise in in that guys.

But you know, the ones that have the real success and we've got some really successful dealers out there are the ones where they live and breathe their business.

And you know, they know their community, they know their customers and they provide value to people and that value isn't, you know, in terms of money off that value is in terms of what they do to help their customers.

You know, we've got we've got some of our dealer partners that are achieving six, seven, eight percent local market share.

So, you know, the product is good. The pricing is good. It's good value for money.

And where we've got dealer partners that kind of want to roll their sleeves up and get involved in it.

They're having a really good time.

Yeah, so impressive figures there.

It's it's an incredibly competitive market, though, isn't it at the moment?

I mean, I've never known a time like it was so many brands coming into the UK wanting representation.

What is the opportunity for those dealers if they are considering a new partner?

What's their opportunity with you?

Well, I think with us that the key point to know is that one we're really easy to do business with.

We don't we don't have a, you know, a whole raft of mandatory requirements for a dealer partner.

We don't expect gin palaces, etc.

What we do ask our dealer partners to do is have a facility that is accommodating to customers somewhere that you would like to go and do business.

Is it clean? Is it tidy? Is it warm? Is it welcoming? That's really all we ask for.

There's no real cost to the franchise.

It's fairly straightforward and easy to do.

What we find in the main is that our brand and the offering can work quite well with with dealers of some of the legacy brands where they're starting to see volumes eroded.

And therefore we could complement possibly their lineup but but then share some of the overheads and some of those costs, etc.

And, you know, add some value into that business.

What about for larger used car dealers?

Well, any used car dealer for that matter who might be thinking why actually I fancy a step into the world of world of franchise representation.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we'd be interested in talking with with with anybody.

It's got to be the right fit, really.

And the one thing I would say from from experience is that the difference between being a used car dealer versus a franchise operator is different.

And if there's an acceptance that you have to do things a little bit differently and there are different ways about trading, etc.

Then all good.

It's about the right people, James, rather than rather than, you know, pigeonholing people into are there a used car dealer or they're a large group, etc.

It's about the right people.

This industry is all about people.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

You see that day in, day out.

What's next then?

What's next for the brand?

Well, we're going to we're going to look to grow a little bit.

I always get concerned when everyone talks about growth, because if you listen to every brand's growth aspirations in the UK, I think the market would be touching four million.

You know, so it's, you know, it's, it is something that I always get a bit nervous about kind of commenting on when we talk about growth, but we have to appreciate we're relatively small.

We currently operate below the ZEV mandate.

So we try to operate or we do operate below two and a half thousand passenger cars, two and a half thousand commercial vehicles, which, which means that we're under no pressure to achieve an EV mix, which helps because, you know, we all know the challenges and the costs that brands have selling EVs.

And it means that we've got an opportunity that when we bring an EV to the market, we're not bringing it to the market because we're forced to, we're bringing it to the market because we think there's an opportunity.

And that's, that's really where Musso EV is going to play its play its part for us.

You know, that's going to be really important.

We have also a new Musso arriving in July.

So that's going to be great.

You know, Musso has done very well for us as a pickup truck over the last four or five years.

And, you know, the factories, the factories investment in, in, in the product development has been incredible again on the new Musso.

It just looks fantastic.

And what we're starting to see is a real design DNA coming through all of the products, which is important for any brand, particularly for a small brand like, like us.

So, so that's, that's going to help.

And then we look forward to early next year when we get a new large SUV, which will be a replacement for Rexton and a new small SUV, which would be a replacement for Tivoli.

So over the next 12 months, we've got, we've got new products coming.

We'll have a brand new lineup pretty much or a lineup that is within 12 months old.

So some exciting times ahead.

Well, for us, we've got to decide, do we exceed that, that two and a half thousand on cars and commercials at some point?

Is it going to be this year or next year?

Possibly not this year, but I think possibly next year we might, we might be in that, that position where we have to make that decision.

And that's one that we'll have to think long and hard about because the rules change dramatically.

And what we can't do is think that volume is the driver of everything because that could put both ourselves and our dealer partners at a disadvantage and we don't want to do that.

Yeah, it's a big decision.

Just zooming out a little bit then and just looking at the wider car market.

What are your thoughts for the rest of this year?

What do you think we're in for?

It's that kind of crystal ball thing, isn't it really in terms of, you know, what happens all to the market forecast is that it will be above two million.

I think that's probably about about right.

But there are, for me, I think going to be some significant winners and losers in that when you look at volume.

But the one thing I would say is that, you know, rather than everybody just following in and reacting to the headlines of the numbers, you know, what other brands and us included do within those numbers is what's important.

You know, reducing your volume but taking it out of all of the low profit high, you know, high volume channels is not the worst thing in the world.

You know, it's, you know, so we'll see.

I think the market will be where it's forecast to be.

But I do think there will be some serious movers and shakers and you'll have many brands shouting from the rooftops that, you know, they, you know,

compete the market, etc.

And you'll find other brands that are quietly getting on with things and readjusting what they've, what they're doing internally.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure we'll come on to some of that when we do our stories.

But Clive, thank you very much for joining us. Lovely to see you again.

And thank you for sticking around for our stories.

But John, we should probably do some.

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Now, back to the podcast.

So James and I are going to run through our favourite stories of the week.

And at the end, Clive gets to decide which one of us chose the best ones, me and who is the winner, me.

I won last week, so I am going to start.

I'm going to start with news that will have been...

Well, I'm going to start with SMMT figures, basically, for March,

which what I'm going to say is going to be of no surprise to anyone,

because I think if you're in the motor industry, you'll have seen them anyway.

Maybe male and the son and so on and so forth,

because the JQ7 was the best selling car in March.

So it's climbed all the way to the top, overtaking the likes of the Ford Puma,

the Qashqai, the Sportage, the Corsa and so on and so forth.

It's not the best selling year to date, but it's very close.

So year to date, the Puma is still leading,

but the JQ7 is something like a thousand units behind.

So 15,500 for the JQ, 16...

Oh, it's 500 units behind the Ford Puma.

So that's going to change very soon, I would imagine.

And I mean, all right, this is kind of a topic we've talked about a million, billion times now,

but the rise of JQ is just mad.

So I want to touch on it briefly,

because the other way of looking at this is the brand by brand stats.

So in March, JQ with their two models, let's not forget,

overtook Renault, Tesla, Mini, Cupra, Mazda, Suzuki, Honda, Citra and all these.

And BYD, actually, I know this is not about BYD, but BYD I've only just noticed is,

well, 11th in the country now in March in terms of share.

MG is 10th, but MG have had a lot longer.

So the rise continues, doesn't it, James?

I mean, the other headlines from this particular story,

obviously my cause has not been talking about how lovely the JQ7 is,

but he has been talking about BEVs, battery electric vehicles, as he loves to do.

And it's that familiar sentiment of battery electric vehicles set new record,

but market share is still behind the ZV mandate quota.

So that sort of continues.

But it's also the best March since 2019, apparently.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of positives in there.

A lot of positives in there.

I wrote about this for my sub-stat this morning,

because I've been focused on this quite a lot this week.

I did a video about JQ7 topping the charts,

because I mean, we just need to focus on that.

I mean, that is a staggering achievement.

They only launched here in January last year.

The fact that they are now leading the sales charts,

beating those legacy manufacturers who have been around a long time,

it really is something to be celebrated for those Chinese firms.

I mean, it's just, it's amazing, I think.

I mean, whatever way you look at it.

But it does come at a cost to some of those other brands.

And that's what I looked at.

I looked at those brands that have fallen drastically in the sales charts

and sort of looked into my crystal ball a little bit

about which brands are at serious risk of extinction,

you know, for not wanting to put a tabloid headline on it, but I will.

There is some brands out there that are in serious trouble.

DS John, can you guess how many cars they registered in March?

I can, because I'm looking at it.

I'm just, why are they bothering?

Why are they still bothering to sell cars, 22 cars in March?

I mean, that is frankly bonkers, isn't it?

22 cars.

And yeah, that's down 70% on last year.

And then I thought, right, OK, why is that?

Because they've definitely got cars, they've certainly launched some.

I looked at the DS4.

So a JQ7, for example, can be, you can be had for £250 a month,

£250 down in some, some lease deals, you know, some really competitive lease deals.

I looked, I did a quick search for a DS4, £650 a month.

Well, nobody's going to buy that, are they?

Well, as we can see, nobody is buying them.

So I think DS are in, are in some serious trouble.

I mean, Stellantis in general, I mean, some of their brands,

Abarth, 43 cars in March.

I mean, you know, again, I mean, I know they're quite niche, but...

Abarth doesn't feel quite so bad,

because at least they are just sort of dressed up fiat.

So I mean, it's a sort of like the AMG,

if you split out AMG from Mercedes almost, isn't it?

True.

But then if you look at Fiat, they were also down 43% in March.

So, you know, they, you know, it's not a positive story there.

Peugeot and Vauxhall both down, not considerable numbers,

but Peugeot were down nearly 9%, Vauxhall down nearly 2%.

Not huge, but you've got to remember these are big brands

who have been around a long time, interestingly,

offering cars that are very similar to those Chinese rivals, SUVs,

that are not as competitive when you, when you put Statham up against the Chinese.

So, yeah, I mean, I came up with a bit of a top five of the brands,

I think, are most at risk, John.

DS was understandably top.

In second, I put Seat.

I mean, Seat, they had a disastrous year last year,

37% down in all of 2025, last month down 29%,

and so far this year down to 30%.

And that is on a really bad year last year.

So year on year, that is not looking good.

So DS, DS Seat, Abarth, Fiat and Subaru were my, were my top five.

I mean, obviously very sad story, but these, I mean, as Clive points out,

you know, where these, where these, that the market is only so big,

it's 2 million predicted for this year.

Those Chinese brands are not coming in and increasing the market.

They're stealing from other manufacturers and we're seeing that in the figures.

And I think this year is the year we'll probably see some disappear.

It looks to me, I mean, I'm going to say Volkswagen.

Volkswagen is obviously not going to disappear,

but it's the volume brands actually have all taken quite a hit rather.

So VW is down 13.3%, Ford's down 18.85%.

Really, it's only the premium brands that are kind of clinging on.

And actually in quite a few cases, increasing their market share.

The other thing I just wanted to touch on, sorry, this has gone on for quite a while

and we will come to you Clive, is not all the Chinese brands are winners here.

So Skywell, which is a name that not many people will be familiar with.

They've got one SUV launched to small fanfare a couple of years ago.

Five they managed to sell in March.

So they're obviously not really cutting through all the noise of all their rivals.

GWM 94, but they've only got one car and it's a tiny little hatchback,

which is in a very crowded market.

And expensive when you stack up.

Very expensive when it is.

X-Peng is kind of getting there 331, but it's still, you know, not a huge number.

Chang'an 540 really is only the likes of BYD Cherry a motor.

I think to some extent, you could say Geely and Leap Motor,

but they're the only ones that are really cutting through.

But I mean, these are all brands we weren't even talking about a year ago.

It is staggering.

Clive, we missed anything in these figures.

Are we misreading them in any way? Do you think?

Yeah.

The only thing I would always, you know, caveat on all of this is,

you know, we look at the overall market numbers in terms of registrations.

But, you know, some of those brands that you mentioned in terms of the negative volume versus last year,

that could well be in their plans, James.

You know, they could have planned their business for this year to pull out of certain,

like I said, high cost, low margin channels of business such as rental, etc.

So for me, you've always got to delve deeper into the detail.

Where are the cars getting registered?

Who's actually buying them, etc.

You know, that's the bit where you'll get a real flavour for who's succeeding and who's not.

You know, that's the bit that I would caveat.

All of that kind of, let's say, overview high level opinion of what's going on in the market.

The car market in this business is not solely down to registration numbers.

It's a key metric that we all use, but actually success can be not within just exceeding market volume.

Yeah, no, good point, good point.

And, you know, not wanting to name names, do you think all brands will survive?

Do I think all brands will survive?

Ultimately, again, nobody knows.

The bit that I kind of race and caution about is that, you know, I mentioned it earlier,

everyone comes with an aspiration of volume.

And my concern is for some brands when they don't realise that aspiration, what do they do?

Do they go harder or do they go home?

And I fear that some might decide to go home.

And then you've got a question, what happens to the cars, the dealers, the customers that get left behind?

And that's kind of an unanswered question really for anyone.

I don't think anyone knows the real answer until it happens, but ultimately it will.

And I think for all of the legacy brands, you know, we're quite a resilient business really in terms of the motor industry.

People will, you know, people will be creative, people will evolve.

People will restructure their businesses to cope with a different volume outlook, etc.

And so I think in the main, they'll be okay.

My point is, I think that some of the new entrants, not all of them will stick around forever.

Yeah, interesting. Well, I'm glad we got your take on this.

It's nice to have a different opinion on it.

Right, shall I pick a story, John?

OK, you did pick the one I was going to go with because I thought those March figures were fascinating.

But I'm going to go with news that the FCA has launched a crackdown on the sale or return business.

Now, this follows the closures of two big super car dealers that we've talked about in this podcast actually produced stories about videos about, I'm sorry,

GVE London and Targa Florio.

These were two big super car dealers that both had a big sale or return model and off the back of that collapsed quite simply.

As a result of those collapses, some customers were left without their money.

They're all left without their cars.

GVE London's administrators this week came up with a bit of a report of what had been happening and said that they're still holding on to some customer cars months on from that collapse.

And there's currently investigations ongoing to establish who actually owns them.

So clearly the FCA has been looking at these stories breaking in the automotive industry, looking at this quite risky sale or return model and these dealerships have collapsed.

And they have now started writing to dealers that offer this service.

This came off the back of a note from Logistics, the automotive legal firm, who told us that the FCA is now demanding evidence of robust risk controls,

clear consumer communications and board level oversight when it comes to sale or return.

They've said that if you are a dealer operating in this space that you should respond to any FCA letter very, very quickly.

And FCA spokesman told us that as part of their routine supervisory work, they're engaging with firms to better understand these business models.

It helps them to operate as a smart regulator, they say, so they can meet their strategic objectives to protect consumers from potential harm.

And quite clearly we have seen quite a few consumers lose out as a result of these sale or return models.

Because you have a problem when they get to the point where they do collapse, the money is just washed up in the business somewhere.

Nobody knows who owns the car, it becomes a civil matter, in some cases a criminal matter, and it's very, very difficult to unravel.

But I just thought it was interesting as if the FCA hasn't got enough on their hands, John.

They've decided to dabble in the automotive industry once again.

Part of me thinks this is lovely, the FCA has woken up to another issue and is now trying to deal with it.

There's a bit of reactive, not proactive going on here.

On the other hand, at least they are attempting to do something about it.

Somebody needs to possibly do something about it.

I don't know what, they have limited powers to do anything to an extent.

Apart from, am I wrong in this, James?

Take away your finance.

What actually can, if you were a car dealer operating with no finance partners,

and the really high-end stuff where, I don't know, somebody walks in with cash or something,

the FCA can't really stop you from doing sale or return anyway.

I would assume.

Because if you're an FCA-regulated firm, you are regulated by the FCA.

And to do that, and if you're selling these expensive cars,

you will probably be FCA-regulated because you probably do a large majority of it on finance.

Put your finance.

They can't do much more than that.

But what actually, what does all the things that they're asking for,

what does that actually look like, what does all this kind of robust,

what are the words that they've used, you've just said that I've forgotten,

all the evidence of robust risk controls, clear consumer communications,

and board level oversight, what does that actually look like?

Because there's a very big difference.

All mean. What does it mean?

All mean, exactly.

Because let's say, a dealer like yours, James,

let's say you take a friend's BMW 3 Series on sale or return,

and it's a 10 grand car, right?

So you've got a limited amount of stuff that's going to go wrong with a 10 grand car, aren't you?

So what are they saying that you perhaps need to, I don't know,

once that car is sold, keep that 10 grand in the bank,

or make sure you have 10 grand in the bank,

in addition to the 10 grand you've got to give to your friend who sold you that,

or done it on SOR, so that you can handle any warranty claims.

That's miles and miles away from somebody selling a McLaren

that might need a new gearbox or something like that.

It just, like, what is the framework that they want people to have in place?

They can't just say, well, what are you doing about it?

I just don't know.

That would be next, won't it?

The rules will be next. They're clearly looking at this.

I just wonder whether the FCA got a dartboard with the automotive industry right above it,

and they just throw things at it and what they're going to deal with next.

Possibly, but I mean, I don't think it's wrong to look into this sort of stuff,

because I just think it is insane.

I just wonder if they're perhaps not,

I feel like probably it needs to be more different legislation from a different body,

not the FCA really dealing with this, but that's just my two cents.

Clive, what's your take on sale or return?

I mean, it's quite a risky business model, isn't it?

It is. I mean, if you look across the industry,

there's a number of the premium franchises where those dealers offer a SOR facility

to consumers of quite expensive and usually quite unique vehicles.

And that's gone on for many years without really any risk to the operator.

So the slight concern here is that we're delving into an SOR kind of function

that in the main has worked, but you've got a couple of scenarios

of somewhat independence that have failed.

So for me, it's probably a bit more about educating the owners of the vehicles

of who do you entrust to sell your asset for you.

That's that for me.

And one thing I just thought of whilst we were talking is that

could they not simply enforce that anything that comes in on an SOR program

has to go on to a funding line with a recognised funding partner

because then there's financial title to the vehicle owned by the funder

and it removes all of that ambiguity of who owns the asset, et cetera,

if something goes wrong.

I'm not experienced enough in this area of the market to really pass too much judgement.

I would just personally like the ability to be able to give a £150,000 car over to somebody

without worrying about where the money was coming in.

Right, John, that's my one.

OK, I'm going to talk about Mitsubishi.

I mean, this could be a headline for the 1970s, couldn't it?

Mitsubishi appoints first new dealer partners.

Got back in time.

Did you read that in a newspaper?

So Mitsubishi have announced most of, more than half of it,

planned 60 strong UK dealer network.

Quite a lot of them are its previous partners,

which is nice that they get to have their franchise back,

that they perhaps liked very much before Covid came, took it away,

as well as some new faces.

So that's quite nice. New members.

So, I mean, I won't read all of them,

but there's a few familiar names like Humphries and Parks,

which is in Maidstone, Fields of Bromsgrove, Celtic Mitsubishi, and so on and so forth.

And then, I don't know if they've put any new ones in here in this particular press release.

Oh, no, there we go.

I think York Mitsubishi is new, possibly.

There's a nice selection.

But anyway, I thought this is, I'm interested to see how Mitsubishi does,

and I'm sure Clive is also watching from the wings,

interested to see how they do as well.

I kind of, I do actually wish them all the best,

because I just think, you know, the products are pretty good.

Particularly, I mean, I haven't actually been near an L200,

but, you know, they're always classically quite good.

And this brand new one I can see is going to,

well, do quite well in its market space, I'm sure.

So I just, I think it's interesting that they're going to come back

and compete with all these new brands,

whether they'll succeed or not is a different matter.

But perhaps they were, they are to quote Nissan's boss

when they took over Mitsubishi,

beautifully small or whatever, I think they called it.

That's what he described Mitsubishi as.

Small is beautiful or something like that.

Obviously, you've never seen the size of an L200.

Or a Shogun.

Yeah.

I think, I agree with you there.

I'm pleased to see Mitsubishi back.

I was gutted when it decided to leave.

I thought it was much as myself, James.

No, I bet.

Kai, were you there at the time?

Indeed, I was.

I was one of the last out of the door, yeah.

What's your take on seeing it come back then?

Did you think at the time it would come back at some stage?

Yes, ultimately, it's too well known of a brand to stay away.

I'm pleased because actually it's somewhere where I grew up

as a person in the industry to kind of work through

various different aspects of the motor trade.

Some wonderful people that we had in the previous organization,

some of those people are still working in the new organization

and some of them are still fairly close friends of mine.

I wish them every success.

My take is it's probably the right brand to bring back,

but probably at the worst time you could do it.

You're bringing a pickup truck into a market that is down 50%

because of the government's actions.

That's going to be a challenge.

They've got some work ahead of them, but they've got great people

and I'm sure they'll give it every best effort

and I wish them really good luck with it.

Why do you think they have brought it back?

Because if you look at it as a business case, it's a tough one, isn't it?

You've clearly pointed out there two reasons why.

It's an opportunity and there will for sure be

some loyal following of that brand.

I get that.

As I said, how it will pan out, only time will tell.

I'm aware that their aspirations of volumes are fairly modest,

so not too dissimilar to the kind of volumes that we do.

Maybe that can sit well in the marketplace.

It will certainly be nice to see them back on the road.

The story you picked there, John,

the fact that a lot of these older dealers have signed back up.

Humphries and Parks is probably my favourite card in the name out there.

I think it's absolutely brilliant.

It could be a store in German Street in London.

It's absolutely fantastic.

It's nice to see some old names getting involved and some new ones too.

It will be fascinating to follow the story, develop and see how they do.

Well, thanks for giving us your take on that, Clive.

I'm glad we had...

What perfect timing to have you on?

It's slightly awkward, really, wasn't it?

I was there for nearly 30 years and...

Is that how long you were there?

30 years.

Well, 29 years with the brand.

No better person to comment than you.

I will move us on away from that awkward story for Clive to something completely different.

I'd like to talk about Motorpoint, John.

This is a used car supermarket that we know has had difficult times over the last few years,

but has now turned things around.

They issued a trading update to the London Stock Exchange this week,

saying that they expected their pre-tax profit to be around 7.5 million pounds to the end of June,

83% up on last year's 4.1 million.

I mean, that is an incredible turnaround for this business that was making a loss a couple of years ago.

The directors said they've put the success down to a record breaking year.

Their words, when it comes to retail volumes, they shifted 65,000 used cars.

I was quite interested to read also Mark Carpenter's comments.

He's the chief executive officer of Motorpoint Group PLC,

and he was talking about how the business has started to embrace the benefits of AI

and said that has significantly helped them when it comes to identifying stock,

talking to customers, and has made a big difference for their business.

He has warned about a bit of uncertainty in the weeks ahead, weeks and months ahead.

He's issued a word of caution due to the risk of increased inflation and interest rates,

something we've already talked about in this podcast,

but he says their superior customer service, omnichannel business model,

and exciting growth plans means they're well placed to take advantage of the opportunities in the future.

But I like a little bit of a success story.

I like a turnaround, and I think Motorpoint has done a really, really good job over the last couple of years.

I think, John, two years ago, we were talking about them losing 300, 400,000 pounds in a year.

They've worked hard, they've got a good brand,

and they've managed to pull that around.

So, yeah, nice to see, especially at a time other used car markets are really struggling.

Well, that's what I was going to say the opposite, actually.

I wondered if we're now getting into a period where they've all adapted to the situation,

because, you know, obviously, lots of these figures are delayed, aren't they?

So, we're talking about periods not reasonably long ago,

but we've had lots of wheeling in another story, but Big Motoring World has, of course,

I'm not talking about a court case, we're thrilled to hear,

revealed record sales in quarter one of this year, which is not quite so delayed.

So, they're very happy with their performance leading up to March.

I'm not sure you could say the same about Clover Cal collection, could you, James?

Yes.

But maybe all, you know, either situation for the kind of used cars they're dealing with

that has stabilised or they've all learned to adapt.

One of those two things has happened, I suspect.

And that's, yeah, hopefully things are looking a bit more rosy going forwards.

Well, apart from just don't open the news, you'll be fine.

Yeah, no, it's an interesting part of the market, the used car market.

You know, you read lots, we publish a lot of news about what the marketplaces are seeing

in terms of demand.

And obviously, we're experiencing it firsthand in the Clover Cal collection.

I just think at the moment it's a mixed picture out there for the used car market.

Clive, we've talked a lot about new cars.

What's your take on the used car market at the moment?

Yeah, I mean, the used car market is all about being slick and reacting, really.

It's, talk about some of these, you know, motor points are a perfect example.

You know, they've become somewhat a household name in terms of a brand.

And what I think they've done really well themselves is kind of drop the shackles of being termed a supermarket.

I know we probably do so in the industry, but I don't think the buying public see it as a used car supermarket kind of organisation.

So that's good.

But used cars is all about trying to buy the right vehicles at the right time at the right prices so that you can turn the stock quick enough.

And, you know, I find it interesting that people start talking about the used market being a challenge because we still have that drag from COVID in terms of, you know, under supply of used cars from where it was before.

So it should be fairly stable and fairly buoyant.

And I think you see in that and some of the values, it's about finding the right products.

The other thing with used cars is that I do feel that consumers now expect a better quality, particularly from kind of the...

When you're talking about franchise dealers selling used cars and the so-called supermarket selling used cars,

there is quite an insistence on a well-prepared, good quality vehicle and getting that right.

And from a cost perspective, sourcing the inventory that requires less work on it is going to help because when it expediates the time to sell

and it also reduces your cost burden that you've got.

The other challenge that we've got in this day and age is that, you know, we've gone from a time where valuations were kind of monthly, etc.

But now you have completely live data for valuations, etc.

So something that stacks up today in two days time could be going the other way.

So it's a challenge, but it requires some quite skillful people to navigate through that.

And if you've got those people, I think you do well with it.

What I like about the Motorpoint Business is they have made a success of what Kizu didn't manage.

They operate this omnichannel business, they do sell a lot online, they've got a very good online offering,

they've got some great retail sites and they offer that home delivery and they've made it work.

I think they are proof that the model does work in large scale.

So yeah, I think it's certainly a business to be celebrated.

But John, I think that's pretty much it from me.

I haven't really got much else to add.

Because we have almost run out of time.

So Clive, before I ask your verdict, are there any stories you think we should have covered this week, but we haven't?

That we had summer on Wednesday of this week?

Yeah, that's it now, it's over.

It was nice, it was a lovely day and most of the UK based in Sun for 24 hours and now we're back to normal.

Everybody was smiling for one day of the week, it was a very nice day.

I almost took my hoodie off.

You did John actually, you were very very close to taking the hoodie off, it only comes off in July, doesn't it?

Yeah, that's right.

Your shorts were on, oh I don't need, people don't need to know this.

Anyway, apologies Clive, so I'm going to have to ask you, who chose the best stories, who's your winner?

Just for the pure awkwardness of it, John, you have to win that with the Mitsubishi story.

Brilliant, brilliant.

I mean to be honest with you, it couldn't have been better because I'm just, not only was it awkward, but also I like the fact that you've picked it as the winner.

So I mean that is fair play to you Clive, well done John.

If I can give something back to my old employers and brands, then giving it the winning story of the weeks probably.

29 years, I think they owe it to you.

Clive, well all that's left for me to say is thank you Clive for coming on and putting up with us this week.

Yeah, it's been great to hear all about KGM and lovely to see you again Clive, thank you for joining us.

Yeah, really nice.

Absolutely, thank you as well to James, who now needs to run out that door and desperately try and sell the...

I've just missed two missed calls on the back phone John, so hopefully it's signed off.

I hope it's for VWUp, because you've got a lot of those right now.

It's probably a warranty claim, isn't it?

Oh yeah, probably.

You enjoy that, hopefully not a Power Shift gearbox.

We'll be back next week with another episode and make sure to subscribe so you can be notified when that goes live.

If you want to check out the stories you mentioned today, take a look in the show notes below.

You know the deal or head to cardealmagazine.co.uk.

Thanks for listening and goodbye.

Please come to Gospel and buy some of James's stock because it's getting very dusty.

Please, please.

You

0:00

61:42

FCA crackdown on sale or return, Jaecoo 7 tops sales charts, and Motorpoint back in profit – with Clive Messenger, episode 253

Autotrader

buying signals

leads through the door

EVs

Carwow

Tesla Model 3

Tesla Model

charged it overnight

interest rates

rebrand a company and come up with a whole new name

Renault

BYD

lease deals

£650 a month

DS

Fiat

Volkswagen

FCA

administrators

sale or return model

Mitsubishi

business case

volumes

Motorpoint

pre-tax profit

turnaround

used car market

demand

being slick and reacting

warranty claim

About this episode

Original notes