Field Report: Is Sim Racing A WASTE OF TIME?
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One of the standout cars that I was really looking forward to catching up with here World Time Attack Challenge 2023, is Mike Burrow's Ferrari.
There's Honda powered Ferrari specifically Welcome to High Performance Academy's tuned in field report podcast series.
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Now, mike, this has been a build that's taken a fair amount of time, and I know that you didn't get a lot of time to actually shake it down and really get on top of it stateside before you had to ship out.
How much testing did you actually get done?
Two test sessions in maybe a cumulative 15 laps in total.
I mean it was a half day and a half day, so very minimal time.
It was basically the bare minimum to ensure we could come here and turn laps successfully and so far the cars felt awesome.
I mean we did some dyno sessions yesterday at Haltech.
They said the cars were running beautifully, really happy with it.
Car just felt awesome in our first test session.
I mean I couldn't ask for anything more.
Even if, from this point forward, it went in the dumpster, I'd be happy.
Well, let's not put it in the dumpster just yet.
I know there's a bunch of people who still want to see it run.
Let's just go back to the testing you did stateside first, because this is a car that essentially every component on it has been hand built by you, and I think a lot of people would expect you know, you take the car, roll it out of the trailer, it hits the track and everything just goes perfectly.
That's not always the case.
There's usually almost always some tealings, problems, gremlins, things that you didn't even know.
You don't know what did you strike when you hit the track for the first time.
You know we ran into a handful of just teething problems.
We lost one of our kind of intake clamp couplers on our first track day.
That cut it short.
But otherwise the car was happy.
It was balanced, it was neutral, nothing that really reared its ugly head where it was like, oh man, we really messed that up.
And the same thing with the second day.
Really, the biggest issue we encountered on day two out at Horse Thief Mile, which is at Willow Springs, was realizing that the brake bias was just not set correctly.
The rear end was locking up early.
We tried to run the bias all the way to the front and was still just you would lock up at the back just a smidge before.
So the first thing we did when we got here was to swap the rear brake pads to a just slightly less aggressive compound and the car feels great now.
I mean when it comes to brake bias I don't want to go too deep on this, but you've got the bias adjustment, which most people think does everything.
But there's also the actual mechanical bias itself between the size of the master cylinder front and rear, and also, as you mentioned, pad compound.
Do you need to go down the path of maybe making a swap to a different size master cylinder in the pedal box as well?
I think right now it feels good if it continues to kind of not have issues, if it feels like the balance.
As I get further and further into the brakes here at the track this weekend it feels good.
I'm not going to make any changes, it feels like we're in the neighborhood.
When we specced the brakes for the car with AP Racing, they were really helpful in deciding exactly what size brakes to put on the car and then they took all of the information I gave them in terms of, you know, not only the weight bias of the car and the aero load it was going to, you know, generate what tires are going to put on it, what pedal box was in it, et cetera, and really helped us spec the right master cylinders for the car.
And I think that's probably part of the reason why we're not really having much brake issues right out of the box.
I'm just interested in your approach here as well.
15 laps, two half days of testing it's not a lot.
You've got so much adjustability on just about every component of the car in terms of the suspension.
So what's the approach?
Sort of you don't want to go out and necessarily immediately start making changes until you're actually comfortable and understand what the car's doing.
So how have you approached that?
I think there's kind of a golden rule of don't make too many changes at once and so just trying to follow that, work my way up to the limit of the car I mean this is way more car than I'm realistically capable of utilizing.
I mean I can drive it, I'm comfortable in it, but somebody a lot faster than me could pull a hell of a lot more time out of the car, no question.
So, slowly working my way up to the limit of the car, finding where the problems are going to lie and kind of where those issues are going to rear their head.
So I think as long as I'm careful and I'm slow and methodical in getting to that limit, I'll be able to make changes slowly and not kind of run into issues like trying to fix a bunch of problems at once.
Let's talk about the build up to world time attack.
Obviously, again, short amount of testing back home before it went in a container.
How have you gone about learning Eastern Creek here in Sydney in terms of a track, so that you are not spending your entire time here just finding your way around?
So I did a lot of simulator time on Assetto Corsa.
I found it really good, kind of seems like the status quo, the model everybody's using for testing and whatnot.
In the sim.
I built a simulator specifically to prep for this because I knew, hey, if I'm going to go to Australia and run around Eastern Creek or Sydney Motorsport Spark, I've got to be prepared and know what direction it's going to go.
I don't want to be out here trying to find my way around or be wondering.
I don't want to be lost on track and things like that.
So I put together a pretty decent sim and then I turned a lot of laps in it.
But I was kind of giving some advice don't spend too much time in the sim, because the track for this is not a laser scan.
You don't want to start developing bad habits and really trying to look for the nuances of the track.
So just know exactly where the track is going to go and then cut it off there.
And so that's what I did.
I think that's definitely smart advice.
There are always going to be subtle differences.
I am talking to you here after just your first session, so let's be honest you haven't had a lot of laps under your belt yet, but I'm interested for that initial perspective.
How close did Assetto Corsa actually come out and has it been as helpful as you thought?
even more helpful than I thought it would be.
I am blown away with how accurate the track map felt compared to real life.
Honestly, the only real difference that I feel immediately is the sense of scale, and it's backwards from what I expected.
I expected the track in real life to feel even bigger than it does on the simulator, but it was the inverse it feels a little bit smaller, and I don't think that's problematic, it's really just kind of an observation, but otherwise I mean, the tracks go in the exact direction you know.
All of the turns feel exactly as they did.
The line feels accurate.
The line that I've practiced in the sim really feels translatable to real life.
I feel like I short-cutted having to spend even a couple of days out here practicing.
I got that out of the way, so now I can come out here and I can focus on the car and the way that the car feels and focus on getting faster.
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Yeah, I've used iRacing and Assetto Corsa myself to practice tracks that I'm going to, that I've never raced on before, and I think what it means is that at the end of one stint you're kind of at least in the ballpark or up speed, rather than wasting an entire day kind of finding your way around.
In terms of the car setup that you were using in Assetto Corsa, did you use something generic or did you go a little bit further and actually sort of develop something with similar characteristics power, gear ratios, et cetera to the Ferrari?
So I have a buddy who's working on like a carbon copy model of the Ferrari with the drivetrain and all the characteristics and stuff.
It's not done yet.
So I really just try to play it safe and I went with cars that people have told me are some of the better driving and better kind of programmed ones within Assetto Corsa.
So I just kind of stuck to those and focused more on learning the track and less about how to drive the track, if that makes sense.
I think one of the advantages if you've got an absolute carbon copy of the car is not only you're learning the track, but you're going to get a sense of where your braking points are, because the speeds will be similar, and also, really importantly, what gear you should be in for a certain part of the track, and you can start playing around with those things.
But obviously there's limitations here on what you're going to achieve.
Okay, so in terms of the setup of the car at the moment there's the potential to make a 1000 horsepower there or there about.
So I'm guessing that's probably not what you're running for your first session.
Not at all.
So right now we're on low boost so we're running 14 psi, 12 to 14 psi.
It's making 640 at the wheels and I mean it's still wicked fast.
I mean coming out of the last turn and just barreling down the straight.
That first time standing on it and just going, it was, it was a hold on tight moment.
It's definitely the fastest I've gotten to drive the car we don't have a straight like this back home but also just a rewarding moment.
To stand on it and have it do what it's meant to do was awesome.
So just kind of, you know, learning those aspects of the car, the aspects that I haven't gotten to feel yet, and feeling it out.
Now, I follow your YouTube channel and you've made quite a few points that you're not a professional racing driver and you're not expecting to be on the podium here.
Do you feel, though, with such a large following on social media, sort of a certain amount of pressure from your followers to maybe overperform where you think you can get to?
I mean, I think anybody in my shoes would probably feel some sense of pressure where it's like, you know, there's so many eyeballs watching and you know, if you come out here and you go slow, you'll, you'll, you know, look or feel stupid or something.
And I'm sure some people might kind of look down and if you know if I turn the slowest lap in my group.
But for me it's like, hey, I'm here, I built my car, it showed up, we're turning laps and I'm having fun.
So I don't really care about any of that.
As long as I improve from my first lap to my last lap, I'm excited.
I'm just trying to become a better driver and a better car builder and overall I'm just.
You know, ian told me when we first kind of started chatting about bringing the car out here.
I said, hey, this car is untested.
This is going to be an 8,000 mile from home test session, more than anything else.
And he says, hey, as long as you're going to come and have fun, I want to hear.
Oh, you're smiling at this stage, which is really all we can ask, right?
Oh man, I'm having so much fun already, I joke.
As soon as I got out of the car, you were standing there and I said how do I plan on coming back next year already?
I'm interested.
This is probably a tricky question, given as we've already talked about a relatively small amount of testing time at the moment.
But with such a big project, is there anything, looking back now, that you wish you'd done different or would have changed, if you could start again knowing what you know at this point?
I mean, I think, realistically, the more that I learned about the Ferrari chassis and how it was built, it was definitely a don't meet your hero's moment.
Even knowing now like now, I know how an F40 is built.
I would never want to see underneath one.
But overall I'm happy with how the car has turned out for the most part.
There's not anything that I don't have any regrets.
I think if I were going to do something differently, I would have just tube chassised the car from the get go, Because what I had to work with only got worse and worse as I got further and further into it.
But I'm happy with the car as a whole and I guess it's one of those things that you start and as you go deeper and deeper and find how bad maybe that original Ferrari chassis is, you're so far down the path that it would almost be difficult to back up and start again with a tube chassis.
Yeah, I mean at this point I'm not going to cut it up and start back over.
That'll just be the next project.
Speaking of that next project nice segue there.
We spoke off camera a little bit earlier about what you do to decide on the next project or keep your followers happy and maybe one up the Ferrari.
Is that something you feel like you need to do, or is it just going to be a different project than?
That's absolutely fine, and I know you've already got a couple on the go.
Yeah, I mean, I think there's always that back of your head of did I peak early right?
For me, it's my first time out here for something like this, and so it's how do you do the next build better?
How do you keep your audience engaged?
I'm not the type of guy who's going to sit here and say the next car has to be crazier, wild or more powerful or anything like that.
I'm here building cars because is what I'd love to do, and I think, as long as I'm enthusiastic about what I'm building, that's what will resonate with my audience and they'll want to keep watching me do it.
I have a lot of development and refinement and certainly fixes to make on the Ferrari as we go forward for the next number of years, and I'm also thinking about what that next project's going to be.
Will it be bigger and better?
I don't know if it'll be better, but I definitely, kind of touching back on the last point, I'm going to go to Chassis next time, I think.
I mean, I think the point you just made there doesn't need to be better.
No, it's just going to be different and that's absolutely fine.
All right, mike, great to chat, great to catch up and really good to actually see the car out turning laps in anger very early in the world time attack weekend.
So we wish you all the best, and if our followers want to also see more in-depth footage and other men hiding under a rock and haven't seen your channel, we'll link to that in the description as well.
Thanks for your time.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
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About this episode
Mike Burrow discusses his Honda-powered Ferrari build ahead of the World Time Attack Challenge 2023. With limited testing time, he shares insights on initial challenges, including brake bias issues and the importance of methodical adjustments. Burrow highlights the value of sim racing for track preparation, specifically using Assetto Corsa to familiarize himself with Eastern Creek. He reflects on his journey, the pressures of social media, and future projects, emphasizing a passion for car building over competition.
Original notes
You might argue that it's not hard to build a better Ferrari than Ferrari could in the 80's, but good fabrication is only half the battle when it comes time to hit the race track and dial it all in on the international stage.
Use ‘PODCAST75’ for $75 off your first HPA course here: https://hpcdmy.co/hpa-tuned-in
With very little stock Ferrari left, this 640hp at 14psi (1000hp capable future proofing included too 👌) could be expected to face some massive teething issues and hours upon hours of adjustments before a major motorsport event, but that is not how Mike Burroughs of StanceWorks rolls, nor does he need to after putting the hard yards into to logical and quality fabrication work over the last few years.
With a quick pad change to counter some brake bias issues, Mike was setting lap times out the gate, also thanks to time spent on the simulator pre event. This left the team free to make methodical, iterative changes over the weekend so Mike could chase his personal goal of continuous improvement remembering he is an expert fabricator, not Logan Sargent (which is a good thing in a way since it meant he didn't crash).
Mike and the crew did have some gearbox issues a while after this interview. It's all covered by some very polished content on the@stanceworks YT channel. It's well worth the watch.
What would be done differently if the clock could be reset and can we expect Mike back at the World Time Attack Challenge again?
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