GHiT 0725: Peter Krause Returns and We Start a New Tradition for the GHiT Podcast with Him

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Captain's Log Supplemental

Hey, Jeremy, you know those race cars you're busy building?

Yeah, I do. I got one that I'm looking at every day.

You know what I don't see you working on?

You don't see me working on the amazing Sentinel System yet.

That's true. It would take all of 10 minutes for you to have one.

And it's very quick and easy to install.

It is. It is. And we could watch you when we are not at the race with you and see how you're doing.

And then we can call you up when you get out of the car and tell you everything you did wrong.

And I love that because so many years I've been driving and not been able to see what I'm doing.

I know.

And now we can.

I know. You know what I'd like to do with the video?

My most favorite thing is I take the video and I load it on YouTube.

And then I send it to my coach and say, look at 26 minutes and 17 seconds.

Look at this one lap and tell me what I can do better.

And every single time, you know what they say?

Everything.

Exactly. Precisely.

So with the Sentinel System, you get instantaneous feedback plus useful feedback that unfortunately is accurate for my driving.

I think it's accurate for all of our driving.

Pretty much. Yeah, that's probably true.

Yeah, but you need to get one in your car, sir.

Yes, I do.

And with the discount code that you're going to tell everybody, they can save 10% on this awesome system.

Trouble free.

I haven't had an issue getting video every time we've gone out with the Sentinel.

It's always worked.

Can't say the same for some of the other systems we've tried.

So I don't know.

It's on the podcast notes down there.

Don't do it while you're driving though.

We like to have our listeners live. It's good.

Share what is right and wrong to get you out of your house and come out racing with them and serve all mankind.

They are the garage heroes in training team.

Welcome to the podcast.

Vicki's going to jump in anytime now.

She's not waiting for anything.

I'm one of the hosts, Bill.

Vicki's here too.

We have Peter.

Peter Kraus.

Peter Kraus, welcome back.

Well, thank you, Bill.

Thank you, Vicki.

It's always a pleasure to be here.

I have to truncate the normal podcast intro because Vicki cannot control herself.

I know.

I love Peter.

I do.

Why?

Because you're awesome.

I don't know if Peter knows Vicki's earned nickname.

Peter, do you know what Vicki's nickname is on the podcast?

No.

Her nickname is a bulldozer.

You know why?

I have.

There it is.

That's why.

Just a little bit.

I get excited.

I have to write things down so I don't interrupt.

It doesn't work.

But that's okay.

So, Peter, we've had you on the podcast a couple of times before.

We just went to an event that we're going to talk about.

You are a silly man and have agreed to come on every 50 episodes so that at least

now between the every 50 that Ross comes on and the staggered every 50 that you come on,

we'll have two good episodes every 50.

Well, Bill, I tell you, I love being on the podcast because you guys have a great and

unique take on everything that we talk about.

And we're not talking about simple things.

We're talking about hard things.

And that makes what we're talking about and what we're doing so much more important.

I mean, it's really fun.

Well, it was way too kind.

But we want to remind you that your official title on the podcast is Our Mr.

VIR.

Well, you know, I never get tired of that place.

I never do.

We don't either because we can't ever get there.

We keep trying to get there.

I know this year we tried to get to VIR this year this year and come to find out that our

co-driver that was going had to have surgery had to have eye surgery.

So he goes, I can't even drive.

So we sent him out a shirt and a bunch of googly eyes.

But yeah, so like we can't even make it because we just came back for a vacation

and immediately people get surgery.

So we can't go and he's like, I can't go.

I can't make it this year either.

So bulldozer and Peter.

Yep.

You two did a thing a couple of weeks back and it's been a little bit of time.

But I thought we might start off with the Ross Bentley.

I don't even know the official name.

Ross and Peter and Ian and Mario at Pine View Run set up what's not an

HPDE but if it was, if we're going to call it an HPD, I would pick HPDE

exclamation point.

I don't know.

It was much better, I think.

And I just wanted to get your feedback, Peter.

You were one of the instructors there.

And you personally had the highlight of my, I'll call it a weekend

even though it was during the week, was when you got so excited

when you heard a certain Orange Miata going around the track.

And I believe you screamed out in the middle of someone else's sentence.

And my favorite part of the weekend.

That was so much fun.

That was really, really good.

It was, it was so much fun.

And, you know, it's interesting because you don't get a chance.

A lot of times to work with people who are really, really tuned in.

And I think Ross put together a group of people that I think they put

together a program called SSA, Speed Secrets Academy.

So this was under the secrets banner.

And Speed Secrets Academy was an idea to talk about more than just

HPDE stuff, but how to teach yourself how to move in a particular

direction, how to get the most out of what you were doing.

And it really wasn't even dependent on the circuit.

That's what was really, really fun about it.

I think everybody has a sense of familiarity that they really don't

want to transcend because they're anxious about it.

And I think that's fair and that's reasonable to say,

well, you know, I don't think I can learn unless I'm on a track

that I really know well.

And in this particular case, this was very different from

everything that had ever happened before with Ross in the fact

that we went to a circuit to work with 40 people over the course

of five days on a track that none of us had ever been on before

with the exception of Ian and Mario Korff.

And it was really fun.

I just can't tell you how much fun it was.

And we had such a good group too.

We were in the first group and we had such a good group.

They were just funny.

They were a funny group.

They were.

They were great sense of humor.

They had a sense of humor.

People had the right perspective about the whole thing.

That was what I thought was neat.

They had an attitude.

Nobody had a chip on their shoulder.

Nobody was nervously laughing.

They were laughing genuinely and humanly and fully and openly.

And that's a big deal.

That's hard to do.

Right.

I would have to agree.

I think what made at least in that particular group,

because I can only speak for that group,

was just the receptiveness of everybody and the openness.

And they were just drinking in the knowledge that was coming,

which is what I really enjoyed about it.

It wasn't knowledge all the time.

I'm just going to say that.

It was pretty, yeah, it was pretty great.

That's true.

Well, I don't know why it was great.

I mean, I think we need to look at a little bit of that.

And from your guy's perspective,

because I think both of you are both incredibly experienced

listeners, which is a hard thing to do.

What did you say?

What did you say, Pierre?

I don't know what he's talking about.

I just think that it's unusual for people that are really good

at listening to latch on to this and say, hey, this is true wisdom.

And I don't know.

It just seemed like it worked out very, very well.

I think the hardest part we have is sometimes we're aiming

to help people either get better or get started.

And sometimes when we're doing the get started ones,

we have to ask questions as if we don't know the answer,

which I guess is part of coaching.

So it's always interesting.

Because some people are, you know, I've met a few people on the track

and they're like, you don't suck.

You're not slow.

And I'm like, no, I'm not.

I'm not fast, but I'm not slow.

So everybody's a spectrum.

That's a win.

That's a trade.

I mean, I think, you know, I get mad because there's a current.

I'm not going to say I get mad.

I get frustrated.

One of the biggest online forums that I spent a lot of time

with is Wren List.

And it's just Porsche-centric.

Because a large number of Porsche owners are very, you know,

really religious followers of driving on a circuit

and doing all kinds of things with their cars.

But the thing that was remarkable to me was that the

you could always learn more.

Everybody seemed to be able to be open to learning more.

And that is, that was one of the things that was really special about

what we're doing over the course of the, I'm getting a little lost here

because there were so many cool things I wanted to talk about.

We got plenty of tape in the podcast.

So we're good to go.

Well, we can start off, Miss Vicki.

Do you remember what your biggest learning points were

and what you were going to try to work on after?

Maybe you can entertain Peter.

Yeah, there was, there was something that I had a really

massive takeaway from.

And it wasn't until I was talking with Mario and Ian,

Dr. Ian, sorry, that early on, part of the reason in why I do

what I do on the track, okay, was, was that I have always been

working on waiting for the car to settle, which is why I do

and perform the way I do after looking at what the car can do

with the reference lab that she put down.

And some, and they just said, why do you do that?

Why do you wait for the car to settle?

And I said, well, that's how I was taught.

That's how I was taught because I remember going to NJMP

and NJMP has this off camber turn that when you go around it,

I had not waited for, I had gone off because I felt the car float

and then it would have to settle.

And then you could take off when you need to feel all the grip.

This is turn five at lightning.

Turn five at lightning, okay.

And they're like, well, why do you do that?

And I'm like, because I had gone off and that's what they

had told me and that's what I had learned.

They said, make it settle.

Make the car do it.

Instead of waiting for the car to do it, make the car do it.

And I'm like, oh, I can do that.

So now that's what I'm working on is now is to really work

on throwing that car around instead of waiting.

Because all of a sudden you're ahead of the game.

You're ahead of the horse.

That's been five years of a bad, of a bad, not bad.

It is what was done through HPDEs and training

and coaching, you know?

But that stuck.

So I'm like, what else stuck that I'm doing?

So, well, yeah, I got Bill.

I can answer.

Yeah, what's that?

The saddest question you asked during the entire weekend

was what does full throttle mean?

Because nobody.

You're into me.

It's so elementary.

It's an elementary question.

But what does that mean?

Seems like it's an elementary question,

but it's an elementary question

only because people haven't thought about it more.

And I think it was very interesting

because we talked about that.

We talked about the number one difference

between what you were doing

and what Alyssa was doing.

And you went up later further down the road

doing substantially more full throttle.

I was throwing myself into that thing

that they referred to as the catcher's mitt.

You guys said this is like a cat.

By the end of that weekend,

which I did not want to take that last run

because, well, I did, but I was really cautious.

I'm always cautious on the last run of the day.

I think that's why.

That's just wise.

Right.

But I think towards the end of our weekend

or days that we were doing that,

I was really trying to throw myself into that.

I was like, let's see how hard

I can slam into that before I go up the hill.

But yeah, so there was some...

I would like to do it again.

I would like to do the Academy again

because it's like, what else am I doing?

Because I'm not saying that what I learned was wrong,

but I think that I've outgrown it.

So now...

I agree.

Now it's time to like the data.

We had that conversation about the data

that I had to go into, which is like,

I think that there's a certain time

in your learning for that.

It's not something that you just say,

oh, we're going to do data.

So I'm going to teach you now.

You have to be receptive for it.

You have to get to that point.

Now I can do that.

Now I got all this other stuff.

Now I can focus on it.

But yeah, so that was massive.

That was the biggest takeaway that I got from that.

And then especially I was looking at a thing

that popped up on my feed.

And it was just, it was for high planes.

And there was like, this Corvette goes around

and he's going around the corner.

And then another car goes around the corner.

And then there's this frickin' Miata that comes around

and he is drifting into the corner, grabs it

and then goes, I'm like, that's what I need to be doing.

Like you said, and that was drilled in my head,

full commitment.

Right.

Because you yelled at that in the class

when you heard...

I love that, you know what I mean?

But you're just like, full commitment.

I'm like, ah!

And he came and said, my car doesn't sound like that

because it was in your car.

It's fun when you pull it off.

It's really fun.

But it's hard to do.

You can't just turn a switch on and have that happen.

No.

I mean, you had a journey.

You had a journey.

And then the light bulb came on.

And that I think is what is so much fun about this sport

is we really get multiple opportunities to get better

and to recognize what it takes to get better.

Right.

For sure.

But the thing is, is that elementary question

that we had, full throttle, what does that mean?

What does that translate out to?

Because to me, it's just punching it.

But then you can't really punch it

unless you're in the proper gear

and then what does that look like?

It's such an elementary question, but you're right.

It's something that you didn't really think about.

And all of a sudden, like a bunch of other people are like,

yeah, what does that mean?

What does that mean?

It's not that people are afraid to ask the question.

That was one of the things that I thought was really,

really cool about Speed Secrets Academy

is everybody was there

and nobody was worried about the judgment

of anyone else there.

It freed everybody from

afraid of sounding not up to speed

or asking silly questions or anything like that.

And obviously, Ross is the best about it.

He's like a kid.

He's like a baby.

He is.

He disarms people's anxiety

about asking these questions so easily

and so with such wonderful slate of hand

that people want to ask questions

for the sake of asking questions.

And that's what he got.

And my problem is I'm a kid too

because I started bouncing off the wall going,

be me, me, me, me.

And he's nice enough to throw me a bone every now and then

and say, okay, talk it, talk it through.

And we, you know, Ross and I have so much fun

because we do believe in the same thing.

We almost can finish each other's sentences,

but we don't necessarily agree with each other

as to the priority of things.

And that to me is helpful

because it gives people an additional perspective

like you saying, man, I was,

it was pounded into my head to do this, this way,

this way, this way.

And now you people are telling me this is all wrong.

Or at least they didn't give me enough detail

to get, help me get to where I want to be.

And that was really cool about showroom,

about Speed Secrets Academy.

I keep thinking showroom stock A.

Yeah.

Not obsessed at all.

Our main classroom from SCCA racing years and years ago,

I raced a Z28 Camaro about 30 years ago

in showroom stock A.

It was really fun.

79, 79?

Yeah.

Yeah, but one LE it was all.

Oh, look at you.

It was a, that was 179.

I think it was a little later than that, 82, 83.

Well, it still had the plastic bumper, so that's good.

Really, yeah.

Those things were really fun.

Anyway, I think it is your revelation, Vicki,

is the reason why I did this,

is the reason why Ross,

after five years of pestering by Ian and Mario,

got, said, okay, if we're going to do this, let's do it.

But we're going to do it this way.

And Ross is really, really good because he knows a structure

that works because he's done it a thousand times.

I also thought that the group that he put together,

particularly Ian and Mario,

but also Sam, who has the most wonderful way with words

and, I mean, talk about a guy who can think on his feet.

Right?

Sam, he really is.

And I've discovered since then that he's actually a very gifted racer.

He won't, he will deny, deny, deny.

If you want to see him get uncomfortable,

the only time he will be uncomfortable speaking is if you ask him,

it's like, alright, how good a racer are you?

Or, alright, here you're a really good racer.

Then he's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Well, it's so funny because he got a deal to drive

the McLaren F1 car that Montoya,

or no, it wasn't Montoya.

It was, I think, Lewis.

Well, no, it was Alonzo's, McLaren F1.

So this would have been 2008, 2009.

And he drove it for a magazine article at Indianapolis.

And I can count on two hands how many people I know

who have driven in anger a modern F1 car.

And by modern, I mean something younger

than the last F1 car I drove,

which was about 40 years old, which was an Alfa Romeo B12.

And this car had modern electronics

and really cool stuff.

And I mean, it was a spaceship.

And it required the ministrations of two dozen people

just to start the car.

And Sam wrote a wonderful article about it.

And if you do a little bit of a search

on some work that he's done for Road and Track Magazine,

I think it's Road and Track.

It's got a wonderful article of him driving this MP4-12,

I think it was, at Indianapolis.

And it was just remarkable.

But he would never come out and say that stuff.

And we would leave the Speed Secrets Academy

daily activities and then we would go back to the farmhouse.

And Ross and I and Sam beat to death

would just sit around talking about racing in cars

and vehicle dynamics for the next three hours.

It was crazy.

It was nuts.

And about wonderful cars that we have known and loved

and traded the fact that all three of us

have been with the same partner or ladies

for three decades more, more decades.

And so that's always a good thing.

But anyway, that's a little far afield.

But I just thought the chemistry between everybody

at that event was really, really good.

And everyone who came in, the first group and the second group,

and it was a very different group, I think, Bill.

Maybe you had a better insight.

But it worked out great.

It was very fluid, I'd have to say,

the way everything was set up.

It just, it went seamless.

Like, if there was hiccups, which I knew there were hiccups,

we didn't know about them.

Well, that's a successful program.

It really is.

I mean, we were sweating bullets, actually, all of us.

But once everybody gets into it

and the questions start rolling and people get into it

and we know we have the room,

and all of a sudden I was looking at my watch going,

holy Moses, we're two thirds of the way through

or we're three quarters of the way through.

And it felt like it took 15 minutes.

And it had been four hours.

I was just shocked.

And that's how you know it's really, really good

because we covered so many different things.

And Ross is a master at rejiggering the program

to address a particular group or an audience

that is hungry for a segment or sector

or piece of the pie of information.

And that was another part of the magic,

was the program was defined by the people that went to it.

And that's another reason why the feedback was phenomenal.

I'm always worried because I think Ross is his own worst critic.

I think Sam is his own worst critic.

I tend to blow it off now.

I'm my worst critic.

I mean, I always think I've hit the wall

and people sit there and say,

man, that's something I've never heard before

or that really made a difference

or people come up 10 years later and say,

what, when you gave that discussion about end of breaking,

which has been a thing for as long as all of us have been studying.

Self-preservation kicks in.

So it's tough to get over it.

Self-preservation kicks in.

It is really hard.

And the problem is self-preservation is such a limiter.

You know, we sit there and we say,

I'm trying harder.

I'm doing something different.

And then they look at the stopwatch and it's the same time.

Or slower.

My God.

I mean, that can be the most,

that can suck all the oxygen out of the room

for the people that I work with at the track.

Is they're sitting there saying, but I tried this and I did that.

And I said, okay, we have to break it into smaller bits.

We have to make, we have to focus on a smaller,

best execution of fundamental skills.

And then you need to do more of that.

And then it will get better.

And sometimes it doesn't get better that day

that we work together.

Sometimes it takes a little bit of time,

but almost always the light bulb comes on

definitely like it did for Vicki.

And bang, people are up to speak.

So it works okay.

You can become comfortable being slightly uncomfortable.

It's a great program to figure out what,

like you've doing it, like you said, like if you're stuck

or if you're feel like the HPD ease

or wherever you're at is just not enough.

And in your racing and you're doing, like you said,

you're doing things, but you just can't seem to improve.

This is what your program is really great for.

You know, I'm not saying that's the only thing is great for,

but it does help you sort things out.

It helps you think differently.

And I think that's what I really appreciated

when I talked to Ross about it.

And just the way you guys discuss things,

it was like, it just made me think

about a lot of things differently.

Not, and it was like a takeaway of like, oh,

and he spent, first of all, first of all,

the walk around on the track.

Now I've walked tracks before and I'm like, yeah, this,

yeah, that, yeah, this, yeah, that.

And they kind of point out the basics,

but yours was more in depth when you guys did it.

It was, it was more of, yes, we look at, you know,

pitches and yes, we looked at edges and yes,

we look at transitions and, you know, the apex,

but you guys had us really looking at the track

and skids and where the traction is

and where the where marks are.

And it was more of an in-depth thing

that I had this massive takeaway,

like I'm going to walk every track now

because now I know what I'm looking for.

And the second thing was, was that he thought,

part of it was, is that you are what you tell yourself.

And that was my biggest takeaway

and it wasn't just about racing.

So now I walk around and I'm like,

that's not a great thought

or if I'm having a really bad day

or if I'm really, things aren't really going to go,

like going well, like we keep hitting walls or whatever.

But if you keep focusing on those things,

you're going to hit all those things.

So now it's just like, I'm even looking at other people

in my life and what they're telling themselves.

I'm like, you're giving yourself a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You are what you tell yourself.

Absolutely.

So, I mean, it just blew my mind

some of the stuff that I walked away with.

And I'm like, this is, it was incredible

just changing the thought process

of even being behind the wheel

and getting behind the wheel again.

That was crazy fun.

So that was, that was the cool thing was

we could talk about it all we wanted in class,

but then everybody got in their cars.

Right.

And that cycle allowed people,

much quicker uptake

of everything we talked about in the class.

And I mean, I still,

I love the track walks because

everything that we talked about in class

and on the track walk is universal.

It doesn't matter what car it is.

It doesn't matter what track it is.

It doesn't matter what tire you're on.

I mean, I love Ian and Mario and those guys

and they have spent a lifetime, it seems,

charting the characteristics of a 200 treadwear tire.

But the laws of physics don't know the difference

between a 200 treadwear tire

and a 40 treadwear Hoosier.

It's just that the limits are higher.

That's it, you know.

And so, so the thing about it was,

was how can we talk and speak

and address universal truths

rather than this specific stuff

everybody seems to get involved in?

You talk about HPDE,

and I'm not going to get off on this

because I get off a cliff if I do.

Oh, yes, you are.

My next question is getting there.

So don't you worry.

You know, you talk about HPDE

and HPDE, I think, is a wonderful introduction.

I think it serves a very useful purpose

and I think the right seat instructor

serves as a tremendous resource.

But I also think that a lot of HPDE programs

are stultifyingly stuck in the mud.

I mean, they really are.

This is the way we've always done it.

This is the secret sauce line.

This is the school line.

It's never any discussion about driving the car

to its limit to the point where it pushes back.

Never any discussion about that.

And they can't and they don't

to keep everybody safe.

I understand that.

And that, like I get that.

There are ways that people can probe the limit

with such fine increments

that they don't endanger themselves or others.

But it's like a nanny holding

and toddler and saying,

don't step off the sidewalk.

When just putting one foot off to see

what the grass feels like is a good idea sometimes.

Yeah.

And I just, you know, I feel like, you know,

HPDE has gotten into a little bit of a rut.

Sure, there are some programs

that are better than others.

But unfortunately, or fortunately,

that's a lot of the reason why people go racing

is because they experiment

without the sort of Damocles over their head.

HPD is very widely, I think,

is the easiest way to put it.

We've been to some very good ones

and we haven't.

Right.

There's some that we just use as a track day.

We don't really even pay attention

because there's no coaching available.

It's just go in.

It's just a point buys.

You know, I'm out there, you know, raising my hand

saying, listen, if you're in three or four

and you're still talking about point buys,

you shouldn't be in three and four.

And I love the fact that you're raising that

because that's important.

The organizers hear that.

The people that are running a meeting to hear that.

Right.

If this is what your major concern is

and all your people, and that's all you're talking about,

you shouldn't be here.

You need to be, you know, I'm just saying.

But then there's other ones who are really great,

you know, and they really focus on drills

and things like that.

But I think that some of them work

on such a volume

of people

that it's now, now it's,

it's like you got what you can out of that

and now it's like you got to focus on nuances

and then you got to break old habits.

You got to break bad habits you picked up

because you don't have that side-by-side seat

and you don't

have some of the

personal coaching.

And I think that the nice thing about the program

is that they didn't

discuss,

they didn't really

focus so much on

how the car

drives.

You know, because we're all expected

to know that.

We're all expected to know how to handle a car,

how to recover a car,

how to, you know,

these things we

already should be there.

Now let's

tweak things.

We're tweaking things. We're solving problems

that we've picked up along the way,

which is what I really

appreciated about that so much.

So much.

You walk away thinking.

You walk away thinking

and not just saying, oh, that was a great day.

Now,

like,

the whole thing,

the whole thing especially,

over the course of those five days is

how many tools can we give these people

to help themselves?

How many tools can we

help them?

Can we give them to allow them

to know how much is too much

and how much is not enough?

Because

when the questionnaire went out

to all of the attendees,

the number one

answer that came back out of the question,

what do you most

hope to achieve by attending this program

was

I would like to know how to approach

the limits

of driving my car.

That was the one answer.

And we were saying, oh my God,

they don't talk much about that

in DE.

They don't want to talk about that in DE.

But there are ways

to do it in such a way through

calibrated exercises,

through highly targeted drills

to do it without

adding undue risk.

That's the key.

That was the thing that I really liked.

Yeah, I just

it took me back to this one drill.

This one drill.

Oh my gosh, it was the no brakes

drill.

I have

I woke up a lot of people.

Oh my gosh.

And you know, Ian,

it was Mario saying, that's been

around for decades, that drill.

I've never had it.

But when I pulled in

with Ross

and he goes, how was it?

And I'm like, it was great.

It was scary, but it was great.

He goes, okay, great. Now do it one gear higher.

And I'm like, oh jeez.

And I took off.

He can't let you

let you lie. He has to push.

And I'm like, that was hard, but oh jeez.

Okay.

And you did.

And I did.

You know, that was another thing like, oh, I don't

really need brakes

in certain spots. Like, what am I

doing?

Yeah, so anyway.

That was what I remember the most.

You know, the beauty

of that whole thing was that it showed everybody

how much the car slowed just by turning the

steering wheel.

That you could actually overcook it

a little bit going in

and still rely on the

scrub to slow

the car down to the point where by

the apex or shortly after

the nose was

tightening up and the car would stay on track

leaving.

And that was the first exercise

Ross and I did Tuesday

afternoon when he brought me back from the

airport arriving.

We go out in that

Corvette

in that C7 Corvette

and Ross says, oh, let's do a no brakes

drill.

And I got to say, that's a lot of car for

that track too.

Because they're arriving at a relatively

high rate of speed and

all credit to him, he did not

touch the brake pedal one time.

I've never done that before.

That was crazy.

That's the one of all the drills.

That's the one drill I remember the most

and I'm like, oh my God.

That was something.

We looked at some of the data

from some of the people who had been

running conventionally

before the no brakes drill

and then

their data from the no brakes drill

and a lot of the slowest

v-mins

higher

in the no brakes drill.

Well, I'm not

a full blown advocate

of Mario's idea

that a no brakes drill

is always

yields a faster lap

than a conventional lap.

I think that

there's no question that it helps people understand

they can roll

a lot more speed in and through the

corner.

That

I learned

from other people who are a lot smarter

than me, a lot older

than I am, 20 years ago

was

the concept of rolling speed

into the corner.

Everybody

tends to stop short.

It's the self preservation.

So they over break, they over slow

which means they come

they break down to

speed that is slower than they

need to negotiate the entry

of the corner.

And then they sort of trundle around

to the apex and then they go,

ah, now I'm pointed in the right direction

I can accelerate.

And where the

if you look at any of

good professional drivers

you hear the engine

note continue to

drop

not steady, not

but it continues to drop

past turn in

to the apex and then it rises again.

So they're either slowing

down and speeding up

or they're rolling

speed into the corner and using that

steering scrub to get rid of the rest

of the speed to get the car as the car

slows down it can tighten the

radius

and we are always taught to be smooth

this fast, right?

A lot of people are taught that

it's one arc of the wheel.

You turn one arc of the wheel when you turn

in and you hold it all the way through.

Well, what people

don't realize is

the radius that the car

will accept changes

according to the speed that you're

going.

If you are going faster you can't turn

the wheel as much. If you're going slower

you can turn the wheel more.

So if

correctly choreographed

past the end of braking

to the apex

you could conceivably

add a little bit more steering

swoop

into the apex

and roll on out.

This was

something that was really important for all of us

to cover and

something that the no brakes

drill pounded

home for a lot of people.

Wow, this thing

sticks a lot better than I thought. It rolls

a little more speed than I thought.

Crazy.

You wouldn't have known that

if you hadn't done the exercise. No.

That's what was really fun about it.

It was incredible.

I recommended

a friend of mine for the second

three day program

who is racing a Formula 1 car

1989

Formula 1 car with a

Ford DFR V8

truck

in a week

and

he told me about

I don't know, the morning of the second day

he said

is this course really going to

give me a lot to work on

and I said yeah, it will.

And

morning of the second day he's like

I haven't heard the epiphany yet

and then he did

the one gear up

exercise

and he had been used to screaming

around at high revs

and get the acceleration out of the corner

and

and he ended up

going around the track in one

maybe two gears higher in his

purpose built race car

and he went quicker and he was like

mind blown.

I would not have tried that

on my own but you guys

asked me to ask the question

so I did

and I

learned something and I'm like

yes

this is what we want

I mean

so

I have to defend my beautiful bride just a moment

and she won't listen because it's a compliment

so she never hears that

the one thing she'll do

is she will do the same thing

over and over and over again

until she's told not to do it

like Ross said hey why don't you go try driving

one gear higher

so my beautiful bride

goes to the next HPD and she drives one gear higher

then she goes to the next race and she does

one gear higher

and she goes to the next race and she goes one gear higher

and she's at the next race and she goes one gear higher

and she's like I won't get into fifth gear

I'm like why are you in fifth gear

you don't need to be this is Thompson

you don't need fifth gear what are you doing

I'm drinking it up

I'm drinking it up I'm drinking up the knowledge

so

HPD providers please

please realize

that when you say

breaking a straight line

and then turn in my beautiful bride

is going to break in a straight line

and then turn in

for the rest of her life until you give her the

get out of jail free card this is hey trail breaking is okay

that was a big epiphany

you know what you learn

she does what they say

she just doesn't stop

but

so Peter I think the

one of the things I wanted to get from you

was

I'm always interested in what

the instructors and the coaches

learn so what did you learn

from the event at Pineview

oh goodness

I mean where do I start

I mean the best part about it is

I think that the best coaches and the best

instructors learn from every student

that they work with

and every client they work with

and every car they work with

and every group of instructors

and coaches that they are in contact with

because there's always a better way

to communicate something

there's always another complex

concept that can

return rewards

if the time

to learn it is invested

what I

learn more out of Pineview

is

that

people are open people are more open

than we think

they're more malleable than we think

their minds are more

flexible than we think

we need to give I mean I didn't

learn this from this program per se

but it reinforced it

is that people who are open

to learning can make great strides

and

and you know Vicki you

hit the nail on the head and Bill you just

reinforced this

I believe that people look to

instructors and coaches as authority

figures and I am one of those

people who doesn't believe

in that culture

I do not put pro drivers on a

pedestal I think some of the worst drivers

I've ever worked with

are quote unquote professional drivers

to me

a professional driver is a driver who makes

a majority of the share of

his living racing

cars and that's a very

small number of people in North

America and only

slightly bigger worldwide

right

mostly pro drivers are people who

have perfected

a sponsorship proposal

which provides them with the money that

allows them to retain a professional

team to prepare

a car enter the car

campaign the car and win

some poultry winnings

unless it's the Indianapolis

500 or NASCAR

because it certainly ain't

IMSA

and the point is you can't live

on those winnings

but what I'm trying to say

is I don't believe in hero worship

I believe in

proven

tested results

and I think that

pro drivers and very

very well practiced AMS

AM drivers

put their pants on the same way every morning

bleed red when they get cut

on a jagged edge of the car

the same way

there's really no

yes

Tommy Milner is an exceptional

Corvette driver probably one of the

finest there's ever been

but the point is he's a man

and he has been

in a racing family since he was born

his father started

the BMW factory racing program

in this country in 1995

with the M3

and worked before that with

SuperV and Porsche

and a whole bunch of other organizations

and now his kid

is a factory driver and has kids himself

and all

I'm saying is

these people dedicated

the time and effort to learn

and they are learning every day

I am learning every day

Ross is learning every day

Sam is learning every day

everybody in that room was learning every day

and you were like

man, my friend

Ben, mind blown, you

I walked away with all this cool stuff

and I'm sitting there saying

yes, yes, that's what I learned

is that there's so much more

out there

and there's always gonna be

more out there

and we can afford to learn

as long as we keep our minds open

that's what I came away with

it's so great

so I'm gonna give you two things

Peter

for coming on the podcast

one, see this

this is your own personal soapbox

alright

so I'm giving you the power

you have the power

five things

maybe six, maybe 20

maybe three

what are the five pet peeves you have

with the current HPDE

haha

so

I don't know if I can stop at five

but I have always

said

that I am a distiller

I'm not really a coach

I'm a driver performance analyst

Ross is a coach

he works on the head

he works on the heart

he works on the physiological response

I don't really give a damn about that

what I care about is

are you doing what you think you're doing

that's why I love data

data is not a tabletail

it's just a tool

and we remember things the way we wish they were

not as they were

and that's okay

that's the way the human mind works

it's a very powerful thing

about DE

about the conventional DE program

and I agree with you 100%

there are

mark club

drivers education

events

chapters of the PCA

and BMW CCA in particular

as well as the Audi Club

Potomac

region

in my mind

I'm talking primarily east coast

you know I could talk about

across country but

I'm talking about mostly mid-Atlantic

northeast east coast

there are some

really really good programs

I wish every DE program could look

at the instructor training

program that

BMW CCA runs

because I think that is

something that has begun

was begun a long time ago

was begun

through under the auspices

of a number of really really good people

including Scott Hughes

and Dan Unkefer who is a guy that I

taught classroom with for

20 times a year for 8 years

very dear friend of mine

he has passed

since but

has touched so many lives

that it made a big difference

but the instructor training

seminar program that

BMW CCA runs

people should go look at that

they should look at that

training their instructors

the second thing is that

I think

the secret

sauce

the way that

drivers education programs seek to

differentiate their own program

from other programs

should not be

thought of in a punitive way

as a mind expanding way

by that I mean

instead of

vesting people with the power to

come down on other people

or

decide other people's fates

people ought to be able

to demonstrate competence

and move through the system that way

and when I look

at PCA

like Niagara region

in upstate New York

or

Potomac region in Maryland

I think

that

or Suncoast

does a great job in Florida

New England region

Northern New England region

and NJR

Northern New Jersey region

PCA does a very good job

New England region PCA

does a really good job

if

people could look

and open their mind

to visit other programs

people who operate the DE programs

I tend to feel like

my second thing about

the thing that I would like to change

is I would like to see more

cross-pollination between programs

I'd like people to be able to say

maybe we don't know all the answers

we should go

and audit

another region's

premier DE

date

and then have

some of these regions

that are doing a pretty good job

make a space

or leave a space or two

for visiting region

officials and volunteers

to come in and see

how they do it

and the problem is

you know as well as I do

racing is extremely

stratified

secularized

NASA people race with NASA people

champ car people race with

champ car people

Porsche Club America club racing

thinks they run the most safest

club racing program in the country

and I can tell you that's just not

true with the number of incidents

involved

there are

three dozen

significant historic racing

organizations in North America

and everybody

only knows

or most of the people only know what

they do

they don't know what other people do so

again the distillation

might come down

to one thing on the soapbox and that is

I wish there was more cross-pollination

I wish people would go out and visit

other people to see how it's done

now

to back that up we've been to a couple

of D.E.s that were regionals

different regions

and we addressed

that same question like why is

one region is all

based on learning and drills and you go

to another one and they do none

and

I think what the gentleman had said

was that we tried that

and our

people here

don't want that they want track time

but I don't think you should

do that

I think that if you're there you want to

make sure of safety you want to make sure

that people are learning and how to

properly handle their cars now

when those two regions get on track

it's usually the one that doesn't have all

the strict learning is the one that ends up

in the most accidents

absolutely

and that's how we've divided up our time

we would go one to get all the education

and we'd go for the one not even paying

attention to them just do the track time

because you didn't have anything to pay

attention to really right there really

wasn't any learning involved I mean it was

just some grievances that people

have when they come in off the track

and you know how to do things maybe

a little bit better but there was zero education

in it and it was just you know

which I think is highly dangerous

I really do and that's why

my soapbox position will always be

pie in the sky

always be pie in the sky it's not possible

to do it

we were lucky enough to stumble

upon that as

we went to a few HPD

once we knew what an HPD stood for

our second year

of racing and I saw

that there was a very big difference so we spent that year

in the following year going to I think

we did 13

we traveled 10

hours to get to an HPD

which is kind of silly but we did

but you guys now know more than

anybody else

runs those HPDs

you know who cares zero for that

Ross I have tried to get somebody

closer to me to listen and say

listen I've tried them all I know

I'm actually a teacher

at college level

but they don't care

at least I haven't told anybody who cares

but that's okay someday

I mean you just have to accept that

and that's part of the deal

nice to see but

you know that and what

snow, snow cones and icicles

and July would be nice

snow cones

you got me off track now you're thinking snow cones

I'm thinking shave ice okay

sorry

you know you're one of the few

guests that we have on Peter

you're one of the few guests where I

come in with like 15 questions

and I leave

with 13 of them I never asked

and 20 more so

you're stuck with us buddy we know your number now

you're toast

I just thought you know you'd like to know

but that's okay

I think that's a compliment

it is for sure

and one of the things that I did was

I went back and I listened to

I think I went to

four different podcasts that you'd been on

and I pretended to be

a somewhat educated listener

and I pretended to be not that the

podcast host wasn't doing their guest it's very difficult

to host and talk and think

and listen at the same time

sometimes there were some follow

up questions where I was like

but but but because

you kind of talked around it but you didn't really

give me you didn't really give me something

to get into so

there's this guy

there's always

this guy

there's this guy and you're right

has a cheeseburger in his hand

there's this guy there's this guy

cheeseburger so it's not me

he

he does this speed secrets

thing you know and he

he used to he used to podcast with it but now

he has all kinds of fun with

with Sam and

I just blanked on him

Jeff oh Jeff Jeff

yeah but but way back

way back

in the old speed secrets podcast

you and Ross got into a discussion

about how there is no magic bullet

there's no magic you know

the fast guys know this or the fast

girls know this and then none of you

people are allowed into the club because you don't know

the secret handshake

and he said that the thing was

they were just better at the

basics they had they had been

proficient they they knew what the basics

were and how to get better out and how

to use them to

manufacture the best

lap very quickly very safely

so

backseat quarterback bill wants to say

what would

those key basic

pillars be

that the the

part time

amateur grassroots

people who race

that they should be focused on

oh my god where do I

start okay that's why

I only get through three questions Peter

get that so we're gonna say

three things whatever you want

as many as you want

so this is

a fantastic question Bill and I thank you

for asking it because honestly

this defines my whole

professional occupational

existence is

I have compiled

somewhere between

18 and 20 terabytes

of video and data of some of the finest drivers

in the world

including a world driving champion

and

you know

class winners at Le Mans

outright winners at Daytona

and Sebring

and

this is

this compilation

of information that I have

there is not a needle

in a haystack there is not

the silver bullet

in that 20 terabytes of data that

if I gave it to you

you could just do it

that's all I need Peter just give me that one bullet

that's all I need

but I will tell you that the three things

that the best drivers

do more than any other single thing

is

they have

absolute and stunning

commitment

to throttle and brakes

and steering

they have no doubt

no pause

no

that doesn't mean that they're

either on the gas or on the brake

the cars

sliding around at the limits of adhesion

sometimes and if you gave it a tiny bit

a break or a tiny bit of throttle

it would go off into the next county

but the point is

that they are totally committed

to

excising

to pulling from the car

and the tire grip contact patch

the maximum that can be pulled

from that over the largest percentage

of the lap

and they can do that

over and over

and over again

the second thing they do and the reason why they can do this

over and over and over again

is because they place

the car

as best they can

on a trajectory

that will allow them

to stay

relatively on the pavement

they are not

totally and completely

in control of the trajectory

of the car once it is set

entering the corner

they are actually

slightly over driving

the car

from the beginning

of braking all the way through

wide open throttle

and track out

so they are not

following cones

that are placed besides the track

that is a

foreign entity to them

that is superfluous to them

it has no bearing

on their selection

of the beginning of the radius

where the meat of the tightest radius

is

where the area of the apex is

and where the car is carried

to

upon track out

so the first thing is commitment

they are in a conversation with the car

and they set the car

sail

to sail through the corner

the third thing

they are really really really good at

and this is something that

I was really happy to hear

Ross pound on everybody

so much in this speed secrets academy

is they are really good at end of braking

they are so

freaking good at end of braking

they are so good at blending

the end of the braking

into maximum cornering

that there is no

lost opportunity

to use all the grip

that is in the tire

and in the car at that point

so those are the three big things

and what is remarkable to me

is when I look

at and I have done this

if I look at six

of the leading

GTD pro drivers

in IMSA from a couple of years ago

and I overlay

their

throttle and brake

and their speeds

in particular closely

matched cars

due to BOP and other

performance adjustments made to the cars

to equalize their performance as much as they can

it is almost indistinguishable

there is really not as much

of a difference between some of these

drivers as you might think

but they are maximizing

everything they got

all the time

and that is magic

to watch and it is something that we can

always drive for

first in little tiny pieces

in slower areas

of the track with less

risk and then as we

get more comfortable and we get to the

point where we know what is going to happen

before it happens

then we can start

scratching

on the

edge of what

a lot of these top level drivers are doing

and I must say

I have worked with amateur drivers

drivers in no recognized

series who are

exhibiting some of the best

execution of

fundamental skills

that I would put them

against

the top level pros

I mean you know it is not magic

that is the issue and that is where that

comes from

is the fact that Ross and I have looked at so much

information from so many

high level drivers

that we realize it is all about

hard work and it is all about seat time

but not just

pounding around

doing the same old thing

that is the key

we have to

do something different nothing ventured

nothing gained

these people have gotten to the point where

they are consciously

slightly over driving the car

even though

you could sit right next to them and not

even know it

wow

so I've got two follow up questions before Vicki

explodes on me and we have the

she will not let this podcast go

and I don't want to respect your time

so

an example of that

would be

I believe when you look at the data for

Miss Vicki versus Alyssa

their min speeds were

the same or very close

yet

Alyssa was quite a bit faster

so what Alyssa did

and this is funny Vicki

that you open this podcast

with me jumping up

and down next to that window

when I heard your car going

around the track and you were sitting at the desk

and I didn't know this was going down

was cracking up

I didn't know

I didn't know it was going down until it was

happening

and I was

I mean all I had to do

and this

this comes from a lot of things

but it comes from the fact that my

office at VIR

is up on a hill

about

half a mile from the racetrack

I can't see the racetrack

but I can hear everything on it

and when somebody leaves the pit lane

in a particular way

I know that that person knows

what the hell they're doing

yep you can tell

I can tell right away

I can hear the first three gear shifts and I go

I think I'm going to stop what I'm doing

for a second

because I can tell exactly where they are on the track

I can tell exactly what they're doing on the track

I can tell exactly what's next on the track

and if they do it right

I know exactly what it's supposed to

sound like

so I was sitting next to that

window we had the window open because it was

hot in the classroom

your car

leaves the pit lane

and I'm like hmm okay

and just for reference it's a 99

Miata

expect Miata

and what was remarkable about it

was I could hear the driver

building

so I could hear a recce lap

which was an out lap

that was not at

6 tenths or 7 tenths

but more like 8 tenths or 8 and a half tenths

right off the bat

meaning that the driver had some

level of confidence in their own

capabilities

if the car decided it didn't want to do what

they were asking it to do

then about the fourth lap

in well third lap in

it was up to speed

and I heard

such crisp transitions

between wide open throttle and braking

between the end of braking and throttle pickup

between the throttle pickup

and wide open throttle

and just sustain periods

of just

all out

and I was like okay

first off this person knows this track

second off this person

doesn't just know this car

they know the physics and dynamics

that are going to affect this car

before they get to where they're going

to next

and so

that was really really fun

that you picked on that

opening podcast and said you

jumped up and down you yelled commitment

commitment that's what it was

it's just like right in the middle of this

seminar that we were

happening he goes no that's commitment

yeah I mean

lost a sitting there talking about

mental imagery and I'm like no this is

commitment

commitment I was

dying it was so freaking funny

and I was jumping up and down and I was like you know

there is something so satisfying as a

professional as a person that

makes their living

24-7 365 about how to

help people go quicker and help them

help them help themselves

go quicker that what

happens when you hear

that dynamic

reinforcement of the

best execution of fundamental skills

to me that

that is a really important thing and that's

why that was so much fun Bill

it was

100% it was

so

it was part of the follow-up of the prior question

because I have to do it so

would you say

that the

concept of a driver

style is overstated

then

you know that's a

that's one of the best questions I've ever been asked on any podcast

that's how we roll Peter you know we always ask the best

stuff you know I gotta tell you Bill that

that is awesome you know

I used to think

more than I do now that

style was a thing

style is like

English hitting a tennis ball

you know trying to figure out how to make it arc

in a different trajectory than just

a straight on trajectory

I have

had an opportunity to look at

some

Michelin pilot

drivers driving GT4

factory built race cars

last couple of years

and you this is a

because it's a two hour and 45 minute

race you always have

a co-driver so I've done

a lot more comparisons between

two drivers in the same car

on the same track in the same day which is awesome

yeah for sure

and

based on that

and based on the fact that

a lot of the best driver pairings

are within

tents and hundreds of a second

for hours

of the stretch

I would have to say that style

is overblown

now when you get to something

like formula one

where

you have quote unquote the smooth

style of Jensen button

versus

Max Verstappen who is

organized chaos

but you never see it

because he's already

ahead of the car

I think that

that there is style is

more of a thing

at that ultimate level

but in terms of production

based cars

I think style is overblown I think that

a smooth driver

is often

a slow driver

and

a driver that is

bent on slightly over driving

the car

whether it be with

steering frequency

which is how often

they move the wheel

or steering amplitude

which is how much they move the wheel

those differences

when you look at the output

at what their speeds are

at any given point on the circuit

and what their time is

over the lap and the cumulative

amount of wide open throttle time

over the lap and percentage

and all of these real

numbers we can put to what we thought

were subjective measures

no I don't think that style

I don't think one person's

style is automatically better

than another person's style I do not

I think that people do

what they're comfortable with

and

when people say I have a particular style

where I need a particular setup

it's because

they are most comfortable with

what the car is going to do

when they give it their

perception

of what the car needs

whereas

I have plenty of drivers

who drive at a very high level who get in a car

that is not set up at all

and they're right on pace

right

and then they come back in

and the crew chief says okay what do we need to do

and the crew chief says

or the driver says

it's fine I'll drive around it

now

as you get

higher and higher in the food chain

in the pyramid it does

those changes make more of a difference

and the

operating margins between the competitors

are much finer

so yes

then it becomes more of a collaborative

experience but I think in terms of

driver's style

I think it's still the best execution of

fundamental skills rules

take that

anyway

so Vicki will not leave

I have been I want to tell you

the success that you've had so we've been

racing for you know this is our 8th season

this year

I have been an engineer

longer than that

and I have tried to get Miss Vicki to be

entertained with either

a graph

or squiggly line or a chart

or anything and I am

over about 050,000

now she goes to one event

with you and now she says

we cannot get off of this podcast

without talking about

a data 101

for someone just starting out in data

what should somebody

let's go with code name Vicki

or someone similar

what should they

look to and

try to pay attention to because I have tried the whole

V

path and U path and I have tried the

I have tried the ball Peter

she doesn't like it

so with your

eloquence and your tone

perhaps she will

finally become at one

with the data because she actually wants

to

she is taking notes

she may become as one with the

data and we may actually use

any of the systems we have

just tell her which one or what

data point she should look at her

data 101

101 maybe even 100

you know pre calc instead of calc

whatever

well I think you know

I you guys both know

that I have

hung my hat

on the objective

evaluation of driver

performance

since I started

one-on-one professional coaching full-time

18 years ago

and

I didn't want it to be my

opinion I wanted

to look at the accumulated

information

and in consultation with the driver

together look at it

as two people trying to

solve a common problem which is how do you go faster

based on what you're doing

now

and so I

think that there are

two levels of data

one level is

just

simple speed and track

position and segment

timing information

we know

devices like

some phone apps

which I don't particularly care for because

they're not updated quickly

enough or accurate enough for

good

reliable consistent information

then there are

devices like the AIMSOLO

or the AIMSOLO 2

which does not

have any connection physically to the car

so there's no

driver input information there's just

speed, lap time

segment time

lap time we decided a long time ago

lap time is too big a

measure

to figure out whether or not

people are doing

the best thing

lap time is the combination

of dozens of

decisions and skill executions

made every lap now if we

make every

skill execution

the best it can be

and you do that a dozen times

or dozens of times a lap

you will go quicker

so chasing a lap time

is chasing your tail

whereas working on the best execution

of fundamental skills

that is a building block

and a foundation for further

improvement

so if you have a device

that is like a Garmin Catalyst

or an Apex Pro

or a

SOLO 2

or a Garmin

I probably already said

Garmin Catalyst

which I think is a wonderful tool

no driver

does

their best individual corners

all in one lap

I wish I could sir

I try

I think everybody does

but I think that

if you were able to

find and focus

using

segment time analysis or split

time analysis

or opportunities in the Garmin

or the theoretical best lap

in Trackmate

or a theoretical best lap

in Apex Pro

or the ideal lap

in Vbox

or the eclectic lap

in Motec

a collection of your best

individual corners

drawn together

in one

ideal lap

that is a very powerful tool

because that is a set of goal posts

and that is

a set of goal posts

that always moves forward

so if you are doing 127.5

and your theoretical best is a 126.8

if you

get closer to a 126.8

that theoretical best is going to go to

a 126.2

then if you get to a 126.4

your best

theoretical might get to a 125.9

and so all of a sudden

you have

a goal

I want to get to

my theoretical best

I had

I have a lot of drivers who tell me

I really want to break

210 at the IR

Vbox stock Cayman

and I say

what are you doing now

and they say well I have done a 210

and they send me the data file

and I look at the data file

and there is a couple of 212

and 213, 214, 215

oh by the way there is a 210.8

and I say well the first thing you

got to do is you got to do

210s every time out

to call yourself a 210 driver

and to do a 209

you need to be able to do

more than one 210

so don't think you are going to

sit there and go from 212

which is your average lap

which is what the Garmin

actually calculates

a fast average

which I think is actually

more representative of a driver's

performance then people always

look at their best lap and they go

that's my performance, no it's not

it's an outlier

don't kid yourself

quit kidding yourself

so let's get to the point

where we are able to do

quick laps consistently first

you don't need throttle position

or brake pressure or engine revs

or gear or anything

to get to the point where you can drive

consistent quick laps

you need to shoot tight groups

that is the number one

thing I ask people to do first

because if they aren't running

if they aren't shooting tight groups

if they cannot do 3 or 4

laps in a row

on a clear

track within a couple of

tenths I'm talking 2 tenths

3 tenths 4 tenths max

then that means that

they are doing different things

at the same spot on the track

each lap they are not doing

the same things at the same

point on the

circuit lap after lap

and that is the other difference

about professional

drivers and top level drivers over

the rest of us

is they are like metronomes

so the first order

business and whether

you do it squiggly lines

or whether you do it a split time analysis

or whether you look

at

the optimal lap in a

Garmin, ideal lap in

V-Box, a split

time report in AIM

if you look at that

and there is too much of a

split

between the eclectic lap

you know what your best corners

strung together are

and your fast lap

or your fast average lap is not

as quick as

the outlier

the fast lap

then that is where you work on first

you know you got to be able to do that

over and over and over again

the second thing

is video

I mean I have had a discussion

you know

it is funny

I have a colleague

who is

a really good educator

on data

but he is married to one particular brand

and for years and years

this brand

they were the last to the table

offering squiggly lines with

the video

in the same window

and I got to tell you

the power of video is

extraordinary

and the point is that

most people

can assimilate more information

visually quicker

than they can trying to

parse through

squiggly lines

rows and rows of an excel spreadsheet

in

channels reports

or vmin charts

or whatever

if you look at the video

and especially intelligent video

intelligent video being the video

with throttle and brake

and gear and other stuff

that the driver is doing

rendered

on the background of the video in real time

so you are looking

at everything that is going on

so you will watch

that video

every driver can watch their own video

of their quick lap

and they can say

85-90% of that lap

is exactly as I remember it

but 10-15%

of that lap

that is not how I remember it

I don't remember blowing that apex

I don't remember missing that gear

I don't remember being offline

right there

I don't remember

crabbing in

at that point on the circuit

I need to fix that

so what happens is

a simple review of

video especially video with

throttle on the back of it

throttle is

the watch word, the throttle is the daddy

throttle is the commitment

throttle is the window into the mind

of confidence

and comfort

surety

if you watch that video

and you

identify the 10-15%

of the lap

that isn't as you

remember it

that's where you should work on next

because that

you jettison

all the stuff you are doing reasonably

well

and you find and you focus

on the area that

can really make a difference

and that is

so many people go out

we've discussed this

on this podcast multiple times tonight

about how people do the same

thing over and over again and expect

a different result and we know all know

what that is

what the definition of that is

and

what we really need to do

is we need to find and focus

on the 10-15% that will make a difference

and

stand pat

on the 85% or 90%

that we are already doing that well

drive as well as you can

that section

but find and focus on the areas that are not

as you remember it

because that means that there are gaps in your knowledge

gaps in your confidence

gaps in your precision

gaps in your commitment

and all of these things

can inspire

to rob you of the lap time

you justifiably deserve

he loves what he does

you can so tell

it's so much fun

it's you know I thought I would get

tired of it but I

and I do get tired of it sometimes

I mean people come up to me all the time

Ross will call me up and he say

so how many

different ways can you say more gas less break

but

or the

there's always the bar

there's the harbor

hotel bar at Watkins Glen

where all the pro coaches

gather after the first day

of a club race

and sit around and say

so

how's your day going

and the other person will say

you know how it goes

sell your company buy a cup car

or something like that

but

occasionally

when the light bulb comes

on and when Vicki says

man I walked away from this thing

with so much more to think about

but with some really bright

light bulbs going off flash bulbs

going off they're really going to

affect me going forward and you guys

have already both said that

it just makes me want

to do it more you know

hang out with other people that do it more

you know I that's what

was so fun about I mean I haven't been

with Ross for

I guess two or three years last time

we were together was at Thunderbolt

when we were working with grid life

and we were

sort of the coaches for that and I love

grid life I think that is

a fantastic culture

and a really welcoming

warm environment and

some amazing driving going on

some really killer cars

but it had been a couple years since

I'd been in the same room with Ross

addressing a group

and so it was always fun to do

that and then with the addition of Sam

and Mario

and Ian

and Josh

I mean you know

and all the people that were there

I mean everybody cared everybody gave

a damn it's just like you said you know

he loves what he does well

I mean

anytime you can turn your passion into

your living that is a total

win

so Peter I have to keep my marriage

nice and solid so Miss Vicki

Miss Vicki Peter don't listen

Miss Vicki do you now know what to do

for data 101 part 1

I do

I do and

I'm excited to start

that journey because you're right

it is a journey

the whole thing has been a journey

since Bill's like

hey you know there's a car for $500

that we can race

and now look at

you know

I'm ready to start hopping into lots

of other things and other trainings but

I have one more question for you though Vicki

mm-hmm

what captured

your fancy

the most about data

at Pine View Run

Alyssa

she sat down

with you

no no

the reference lap

and then comparing

my lap to the reference lap

but it was also it wasn't

just that it was the fact that

the particular data unit that I had

which linked everything together

it wasn't just lines

it was video that was in there and then

there was speed that was going at the same

time and of course my

the way that my like I am very

in tune with the way my brain is structured

to receive information

I'm not by the way

yeah but

that kind of knitted everything

together

for me the way that was

because you're right it wasn't just squiggly lines

when I'm looking at squiggly lines

and I'm coming out of a race car

my brain's already popping

and I can't focus

on just the lines because

the lines aren't resonating with me

but when it got linked with the data

and then the speed

and I'm like oh

and then of course with the reference lap

so now

now it kind of

gave me something

to focus on

and for the other fact too was that

I've gotten into

a point of my learning

where I'm ready to

receive that information

where

now I'm not just

HPDE-ing or I'm just kind of slapping

a car around with reference laps

or you know

endurance racing

most of my endurance racing

in the particular sometimes the circuit

that I'm in is a lot of traffic management

until like you're on the second day

so it's really hard

to get

data to do that

but I haven't been in that particular

kind of racing but now

I'm at that point when I'm ready to receive that information

and do something with it

so I'm excited

because this whole

thing has been a journey

everything's been a journey

and you know

after I just left

that particular

academy which is a great word for it

it did feel like an academy

um

that

it just

it elevated

what I was already doing

I didn't feel like I was slamming laps

I didn't feel like I've heard all of this before

and I'm just kind of

it was different

well it's fun because as Bill pointed out

you were fully as quick

as the reference lap

in several points

on the circuit

the V-man's in the slower corners

but the reason why

you were slower is because you were slowing

sooner

you were slowing

to a low speed

sooner than you needed to

and that you were waiting until it was fully safe

and until you could see

the way out

to accelerate out

so what happened was

more area

under the curve for you

and there was

and so to me

that

throttle trace and that speed trace

together with the video side by side

was

amazing because we looked at the video

and we said there's nothing wrong with

your line

it's now working on

for aft it's now working on

that commitment

and

now you are

absolutely primed to receive that

because

understand

the difference that it can make

and I thought that was good

so

if only there was a trick to getting the

aim smarty cam

pointed in the right direction

because there's no

screen to say

there's no

oh I'm looking directly where I need to be

oh I'm looking at the back of her head

especially when you're trying to peek into a race car

so

that would be lovely the only thing I like better

about a GoPro is they have a little screen and I'm like

oh I'm looking at what I want to look at and the smarty cam just says

screw you

we're just going to have to do a test lap bring it in take a look at it

and then say okay that's good

well the best part

about those cameras is

that you can actually press one of the buttons on the face

of the camera and it will record manually

for a short

moment and you can push the button again

to turn it off and pull the card and take a look at

I knew there was a guy

who knew something about these things

I should talk to that guy

some more I think I will

the best part about it was

your car

you know I mean we talked about

data 101 100

about

the basics speed sector

times

lap timing

but what you've done is you've gone to the next step

you now have

data 201 because now you

have all your inputs

what are you actually doing with that brake

pedal what are you doing

oh

how fast are you applying

the brakes are you breaking

harder earlier

and releasing

but in fact sometimes we find

the opposite which is not as good

you know and then

the throttle which is

your big breakthrough

when I look at it

I'm looking at you going

I think yeah I like that sort of

yeah well no it's about time to slow down

see Alyssa go

time to go

stop

got places to be

that's right I gotta get air

right now

but anyway

you have everything you need

to

really supercharge your effort

yeah

spend the time to do that

we took

this

year up to this point off

and

we had a lot of stuff that were going on

and

getting in the car for me

was after

what about it was like seven months

or almost a year

of not even driving

we were

we were in two races

but because of everything we were dealing with

I think we were all just kind of going through the motions

you know they were fun

but when I went to the clinic

or the academy that you guys were doing it was like

this is like I missed this

I missed the adrenaline part of it

my body has felt

so lazy

and trying to find like these things

and everything is calm

but that's what we needed at the time

but then I got back in the car

and I'm just like I missed this

I missed this a lot

and I got real excited so when I got back

I got back in the garage to start putting

all of our stuff back together and getting ready for

autumn racing now

so we have a couple races that are coming up

and I'm just so excited to get behind the wheel again

and now we're already

discussed you know

going out and officially getting my comp

license and then officially going to get my

instructor license and

you know of the likes

but you know just kind of getting

back involved

with it all and

having fun so it was a lot

it was pretty great

that's great

that's really good to hear

Peter thank you for coming back on

thank you for putting up with us again

thank you for not putting us on the auto

junk filter that's greatly appreciated

we will bother you again don't worry

well I appreciate it Bill I really do

and I always enjoy talking to you and Vicky

it's a lot of fun

there's a reason why you'll be coming

on a lot

we love talking to you too sir

that sounds great thank you

alright podcast over

Miss Vicky you got a finger

I do I have a finger

I was just waiting so we just didn't you know

float off

so thank you so much

for coming on I just like

Bill when I had saw him I was like

I remembered

Peter Krause's name

and then when I saw him and I heard his

freaking voice I was like

I know him he was the first

he was the first guy

that registered in my brain because he taught

me the line when I first got behind the wheel

you don't remember that

I don't know I don't think

you know because I think it was a video

or something that okay

did we have a discussion with him

it was no it was

the

Road Atlanta

it was our fourth race ever

and we were going to Road Atlanta

and I bought yours and Ross's

Track Walk

and

Vicky can't stand to listen to me for a few minutes

but two and a half hours later

she's still listening to you guys talking

about turn 12

we haven't quite finished it

everybody else is tagged out

and Miss Vicky's just sitting there enthralled

like gotta do this and then we get there

I'm like oh there's a line he taught me the

line he taught me offline and a rain line

he taught me all this and then when I heard

your voice I'm like I know

and I was so excited when I heard his voice

and I told him I'm like you taught me

the line

and the best

joke I had

Ross and I have so much fun

doing those things

there's a few tracks I can make requests for

you know

there's a couple more tracks out there sir

there's a lot more tracks out there

I appreciate all you do

Peter I really do

and this idea

that you guys have all come up with

I really think

I really think it has something

unless work precludes

we will both be at the next one

whether I'm instructing or

studenting

we're empty nesters now

my daughter

just went off to college

congratulations were she gone

University of Vermont

oh terrific

that's a wonderful school

it is a great school she's

she went up there she's like this place feels like home

so she's

she's having the time of her life

we just moved her in just a couple days ago

yesterday that's great

congratulations good deal

alright sir well thank you

and we'll talk

go hopefully again soon

it doesn't take long we'll get you

it's great to hear from you Peter

thank you

good luck on your race good night

good luck

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GHiT 0725: Peter Krause Returns and We Start a New Tradition for the GHiT Podcast with Him

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