He's Terrified But Jamie McMurray Is Back | Stacking Pennies
Stacking Pennies with Corey LaJoie · Jun 15, 2026
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Term
modified
In this context, “modified” refers to a specific style/class of dirt-track race car (often called a modified or dirt modified), which is meaningfully different from a late model. The host says it’s a “whole different animal,” implying different driving feel, setup, and exposure.
Car
410 Sprint car
A 410 sprint car is a fast, race-only car class used on short tracks. It’s powerful and you sit low and exposed, so it can feel really scary even for experienced drivers.
Term
late model
A “late model” is a type of dirt-track race car class. It’s different from other classes like modifieds, so the driving experience can feel quite different.
Place
Cairway
“Cairway” appears to be the name of a racetrack where the host got in the modified car and immediately felt uncomfortable. Track layout and car setup can strongly affect how exposed and difficult a car feels.
Place
Franklin
“Franklin” is referenced as the venue where the host raced with Carter after doing tests. In dirt racing, track characteristics (surface, banking, and typical line) can change driver comfort and confidence quickly.
Place
Talladega
Talladega is a famous NASCAR race track. Because of how the track is shaped, cars tend to run close together at high speed, and races can go a long time without a caution.
Term
caution flag
A caution flag means something happened on the track and the race slows down. Teams often pit or adjust their strategy because the rules and timing change during cautions.
Term
went green
“Went green” means the race is back to normal speed and racing. If it stays green the whole time, teams have to manage tires and fuel without the breaks that cautions provide.
Term
green flag pit stop
A green-flag pit stop is when you come into the pits while the race is still running normally. It’s different from pitting during a caution, because everyone else is still driving fast.
Term
out of gas
Running out of gas means the car doesn’t have enough fuel left to finish the race. In racing, it’s typically a strategy/timing problem—like pitting a little too late or using more fuel than expected.
Term
qualifying trim
Qualifying trim is how a race car is adjusted for its fastest possible lap. It’s usually optimized for short bursts, not for staying fast for the whole race.
Term
500 horsepower
Horsepower is a measure of how much power the engine can make. The host is using it to show that one group of race cars has way more power than the other.
Term
800
The “800” is shorthand for how much power the Cup cars have. It’s meant to show the Cup cars are dramatically stronger than the other cars mentioned.
Term
pit run
A pit run is the period of track time after leaving the pits following a stop. Drivers and teams use it to evaluate how the car performs on that specific stint—especially right after changes made during the pit stop.
Term
qualified seventh
“Qualified seventh” means the driver earned the 7th spot on the starting grid. Where you start can make it easier—or harder—to move up during the race.
Term
qualified six
“Qualified six” means the driver got the 6th spot to start the race. It’s based on qualifying speed, and it can help with early positioning.
Term
strategy
In racing, “strategy” is the plan for things like when to pit and how to manage tires and fuel. The right plan can help you gain positions even if you’re not the fastest car.
Term
flat
A “flat” means the tire went punctured or lost air. In a race, that usually forces you to stop and can cost you a lot of positions.
Term
road course
A road course is a race track with lots of turns and braking, more like a twisting road than a big oval. It’s the kind of track where driving skill and cornering matter a lot.
Term
tire slip
Tire slip is when the tires aren’t fully gripping the road. If they slip too much, you lose traction and the car won’t turn or slow down as well. Drivers try to manage slip so the tires stay in their best grip zone.
Term
brake pressure
Brake pressure is how hard the brakes are being applied. More pressure usually means more slowing, but too much can make the tires lose grip. On a race track, drivers try to apply the right amount so the tires keep traction while braking.
Term
trail off
“Trail off” means you start braking and then slowly ease off the brakes. On a track, that can make you lose some stopping power or timing. The speaker is saying you shouldn’t do that—you should keep the braking input more consistent.
Place
Sonoma
Sonoma is a famous race track in California. It’s known for lots of turns and braking, so cars need good grip—exactly what the speaker says they liked about that setup.
Term
grip
Grip is how well the tires can hold the track. If it “falls off,” it means the tires stop sticking as well after some laps or when conditions change.
Term
big spoilers
A spoiler is a shape on the car that helps it press down onto the road. That extra “push down” helps the tires grip the track, especially in corners.
Place
Martinsville
Martinsville is another well-known NASCAR track, but it’s a short track with tight turns. The speaker mentions it because they enjoyed how the car felt there—staying planted and fast through corners.
Term
hairpin
A hairpin is a super tight turn, like a U-turn. Race cars have to slow down a lot to get around it, then they accelerate hard when they’re pointed back down the track.
Term
10 lap shootout
A 10-lap shootout is basically a short sprint race—only ten laps long. With so few laps, tires and getting track position quickly can make a huge difference.
Term
four new tires
“Four new tires” means the car gets brand-new tires all around. New tires usually grip much better, which helps the car go faster through turns and off the line.
Term
barely lifting
“Barely lifting” means the driver doesn’t fully take their foot off the gas—just eases off a little. That helps the car stay stable in the turn without slowing down as much.
Term
900 horsepower
Horsepower is how much power the engine can make. “900 horsepower” means the car is extremely powerful, so it can keep accelerating hard instead of needing to slow down much.
LIVE
Hey friends, about to have a lot of fun today joined by a good friend and teammate this week, Jamie McMurray our fearless co-host Ryan Flores is out in New Jersey.
We miss him dearly, but yet we still have an awesome conversation. Jamie now is a racing dad with his son Carter racing Modifieds,
blowing the rust off and running at San Diego this week, all that and more.
Talk a little bit about Pocono, talk a little bit about racing stories, all that and more right here on Stackin' Pennies.
Alright friends, help me welcome Indy, Brickyard 400, Daytona 500 winner and just overall cool dude, Jamie McMurray.
Thanks for making the time buddy.
I appreciate it. I don't know what I've gotten myself into.
No, you do not.
You don't know what you're gotten to getting yourself into overall this week because not only are you jumping on the podcast,
you are jumping in the 25 free agent truck for San Diego.
Well, welcome man. I'm excited to be teammates with you.
Yeah, so San Diego, we can start there. I am beyond nervous.
Petrified?
Terrified, yeah. And honestly, it's just been a long time since I've raced and people, I've had a lot of fans, family.
You're like, oh, it's just like riding a bike. I'm like, well, I want to ride that bike fast though.
You know what I mean? Like it's easy to get back on and be a part of it, but it's just, it's been harder for me than what I thought it was going to be.
So, and this is in the nitty gritty. If you were, say, what year would you consider your peak abilities as a racer driver?
Like your abilities were honed and sharp.
Yeah, I mean, I don't, I would say honestly, until I stopped, I felt pretty good about where I was, yeah.
2011, 2012.
No, so I stopped in 18. It was my last year of racing and I still felt like, I mean, I was 42, 43 years old then.
I felt pretty good about everything like prep, fitness, all that. I mean, I, you know, reaction.
I felt really good there, but it's, here's the thing for me is that, and I think Harvick or Dale Jr.'s may be a good comparison.
Those guys just continued to race when they got done, even though it was at a late model or Dale doing the O'Reilly series here and there.
They were racing yearly or maybe a couple of times a year when I stopped racing. I just stopped.
Yeah, there was, and I remember doing Dale's show and he was like, he couldn't understand like, why?
What do you mean? Like, why are you not? And I was like, I just, for me, I knew that racing is pretty addictive.
And I'm like, I don't want to tempt myself. And so mentally, I just shut it out.
And then when my kids started racing, that became my racing, right? I kind of did it through him.
So I haven't done anything. And when this opportunity came along to do this, it's just been, it's been harder than I thought it was going to be.
What are you most nervous about?
Failure. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think, but listen, I feel like it's been that way. Yeah, you're scared of failing.
What I would tell you, like when I say difficult, and I don't, I think you could appreciate this.
I don't know because you still are racing. I can't tell you how uncomfortable I was getting back in a seat, putting a helmet on, being confined,
looking out of a windshield, like every, and I got a little taste of that with the modified.
And I went and drove that a little bit.
Nothing makes you feel closer to death. Now, I haven't driven a 410 Sprint car. You feel exposed and modified, buddy.
Yeah, and because you can see those massive tires, but just I got in that car.
Heads up against the ceiling. Window that's right here.
Yeah, well, I'm a lot smaller than you. So it's not quite the type.
But when I saw, so I agreed to go run some of these modified races for Hermie Sadler, which is the same team that Carter, Carter races for,
for a few reasons. First off, I thought it was going to be good to be fun to get to race against Carter, right?
And he's 15 and a half now and be fun to go out and be a part of doing that.
But and then also being able to understand what he's going through because I'd never driven a car like that.
And so they're modified. They're a whole different animal than a late model or anything I have been a part of.
But I thought I was like, it's also going to let me just get in a car and experience a lot, right?
And then we went to Cairway and I got in. I'm like, I don't really want to be in this right now.
I'm pretty uncomfortable. And, you know, it started to get better.
I did a couple of tests and I went and raced at Franklin with Carter.
And I was, I was fairly uncomfortable the whole time until the race started.
And once the race started and you, you all of a sudden you realize, well, I don't have to drive as hard as I thought.
Like everyone's were all kind of the same speed. That was pretty fun.
But man, like the truck, the lack of practice.
It's going to be sketchy.
Yeah. And I thought, I mean, I picked a road course.
So I'm like, oh, it'll be a slick, like no grip, slow track.
And then it's so fast.
There's nothing slow about it. Maybe a couple of corners.
But yeah, a couple of corners and then just rough and trying to learn.
I don't know. I probably have not picked the right place, but you're committed now.
But my here's the thing. I want it to be fun, right?
Like I want the whole experience to be just fun.
I'm taking Carter with me. We're just just he and I are flying out together.
I want it to be a great experience, but, you know, fun is doing well.
You're not having fun running 20. That's no fun. Yeah.
But I hope can have a good time and enjoy the experience.
I think it's I almost wish that I had kids a little bit earlier so they could have seen the work and all the stuff that comes goes into being a professional.
Like when I was doing that for the last however many years.
What do you think Carter is going to notice or what do you want Carter to notice through the whole process?
So I have I've even when we were in carting and then moved up to legend cars and then he did the modifies.
He was I would say annoyed with me at how I wanted him to prepare for races.
And even though they're, you know, it's not at the same level.
I told him, I'm like, listen, if you want to do this at a high level, you have to learn at a young age what that commitment is.
So whether it's watching video driver debriefs, I was making him driver debriefs.
I'm like, you need to fill this out after every race and it's not it's not for the team.
This is for you. You make some notes like this. This is what this track did when the sun went down.
These are the bumps. I need to start my balance out tighter or loose or whatever.
You just and I was like, Carter, I can't tell you what you need to know.
You're going to have to figure that out on your own.
But I can give you kind of a little template to go off of and he didn't like it.
Right. And I could tell we'd get in the car to drive home and I'd be like, you need to do your notes right now.
What's fresh in your mind?
And and but what I figured out is after a year or so, he developed his own process and it's not exactly what I want or what I would do.
But that's OK. It's what he needs.
And he's very disciplined in that.
But without a doubt, he has watched me watch hours of video.
Yeah.
How do you balance? We talked about we talked about racing dads.
I mean, I third generation.
So like my dad, same thing.
He had his process and I figured out mine and whether he agreed or didn't agree or liked it or not.
And he would, you know, Randy LeJoy is not.
He's not one to keep his thoughts to himself.
Right. He's one.
He's one to vocalize his opinion, which I which I appreciate and love.
But how do you when because like your kid now is starting to be in the mix like he's starting to be his peers are, you know, Keelan's little younger.
Now he's a couple of years behind Brent Cruz.
Right. He's kind of like the William Swaloch is like he's like the next little group.
How much are you pushing him versus how much are you just letting them go pursue what he wants?
Well, I so yeah, that's that's a great question.
And I have witnessed a lot of my peers, kids, and this has been for the last 20 years.
So it could have been drivers.
Tails oldest time.
Yeah. And I watched a lot of parents just give their kids everything.
And the kid after a year or two was like for me, like I was fun.
But and and I was like, I'm not going to do that.
And so I have intentionally tried not to give him the best of everything.
Like I don't want him to be in junk and I want it to be safe.
But I just have I know that I could always give him a little bit more.
But I want him to to try to compete with I don't I just don't want him to be that guy.
Right. Yeah.
And but so this would go back to what you just asked me about like work ethic and preparation.
I pushed him pretty hard and I felt like I wasn't getting what I wanted.
And last year at a we hit a point where I was like, you know, Carter, I think we should take a break.
And and there were there were some there was a lot of reasons tied into that.
And then I watched his work ethic go through the roof.
And he he realized, and I might not have this, you know, I should probably make the most out of it right now.
And he did that without me asking.
And and he's not even going to know that I know that because I've never acknowledged him with it.
But I just have watched him for the last, I don't know, maybe for like the last eight months.
And when I go downstairs, I see him watching film or I will get on his computer and read his debriefs where I used to making.
I was like, hey, send that to me.
And now I don't I just go in and I read it.
And I'm like, yeah, you're doing you're doing all the things.
So that makes it for me.
I know that he wants it really bad.
And it makes it easier for me to make a commitment to him to try to give him this opportunity because the reality is and I this and you know this as well as anyone.
I have told Carter there are maybe three kids every five years that are going to make it purely on their ability.
And they don't have to bring a sponsor for everybody else.
You need money.
And that's that is the bottom line.
And I told him, I'm like, you need to always be working on your skills as a driver and try to win all the races.
But you also got to be really good at marketing yourself.
That's right.
And how do we you know, how do you because I I was a good race car driver, but I was really good at taking care of my partners and being friends with them and building relationships.
And I still have relationships with a lot of them.
And it wasn't because I had to it was genuine.
I enjoyed being around those people.
But that's how you have a long life other than three or you know, there's a few generational talents that come along.
And they don't have to be good.
And I was I was not one of those.
I just had to work a lot harder.
And now the other areas.
To stay a lot.
Yep.
I want to go.
I want to go touch on Pocono and Denny Hamlin particular.
But I also want I don't want to just breeze over when I was like a kid, it it was like.
When you came in, you drove for James Finch in the one yellow car, right?
You were dabbing around.
And then when you get that shot for the Nassi and you go your second career race, first race, second race, we're going in for tomorrow.
Yep.
Sterling Brook is neck at Kansas.
And you jumped in at Charlotte.
Coke 600.
No, it's a fall race.
And you went to race.
Yeah, I've I'd tell you I told the story a few times.
But so I was I was driving.
I was going to go real quick through.
I was driving Mittler Brothers truck and I was pretty content.
I know how how I was ever getting another opportunity.
And I got an opportunity to get in this 41 Ferris concrete truck.
Went to the first two races qualified on the pole of both of those.
I think we ran the top five.
It was Michigan.
A qualified on the pole round top five went to the national fairgrounds qualified on the pole.
We ran the top five and literally in two weeks, like I went from just this kid from Missouri.
All of a sudden, I had Hendrick Motorsports called and it was actually for the same chance
that Jimmy Johnson was running that Herzog Herzog car.
I don't remember that.
Yep.
Brew co-called C.C.
Wellover, which your dad was your dad at C.C.
Wellover.
You was right later.
He was like 2004.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it was right before that.
This is like in the early 2000s to 2001.
All these teams all of a sudden called and I got this opportunity to go go run in the in
the O'Reilly series or the Bush series at the time.
My first year that was not good.
Just sub average.
And I was like, oh, I'm going to lose my job.
But I had a good run.
I got a chance.
And then I got the opportunity to stay at Brew co.
I had a pretty good following year and I got the call to go do.
Get nasty.
And and I was like, this is a great man.
I'm going to get this chance.
They hired me.
I'm going to be in the 42 car the following year.
They were actually going to run me in like five or six races in the Melling car.
It was the other Dodge car at the time.
Stacey Compton, I think drove it.
And then I don't know.
I don't know what happened with Stacey, but I was going to go run some races and Chad
Knauss, ironically, was the was the had been the crew chief on that.
This is before Chad Knauss.
Right.
Right.
And so I'm going to do this and then the over OCD obsessive Chad was still in there.
He just didn't have the tools to go put it towards it until he got to Hendrick and
Jimmy John.
But at the time that car qualified on the pole of every like super speedway race, they
had something cheated up with the truck arms.
I don't know exactly what it was, but Chad definitely had something to do with that.
So I was excited to get to have that opportunity.
Sterling breaks his neck.
They're like, Hey, you know, and I remember Andy Graves being like, Hey, we've talked
and we think if you're the guy for next year, then we're just going to be you're going to
be the guy that's going to fill in for us.
And I'm like, OK.
How old are you?
I don't remember 27 maybe.
I was I told you I was nervous here.
I was way more nervous then because I'm like, oh, my life is depending on this.
And if you if we could rewind the 40 car had led the points up to that point.
I'm like, man, not only am I getting in a car, I'm getting in like the car.
Right.
So we went to Talladega, ran the first race and there was not a caution flag in the race.
It went green the entire race.
I had never made a green flag pit stop in my life up to this point.
So and we ran really well.
I don't I don't remember exactly where we ran, but we ran like fifth to 10th all day
long, which was awesome to do that.
Ended up running out of gas with I don't remember on one of the sequences.
So we didn't finish well.
And I told Tony Glover was the like team manager at the time.
Lee McCall is a crew chief, but Glover kind of was always the guy on the radio for the
40 team.
And I told I told Glover, I said, you know, Charlotte's not a good track for me.
And he's like, oh, Jamie, he's like, we have a good car for Charlotte.
He's like, we're going to be fine.
Yeah, great.
Perfect.
Yep.
We go to Charlotte.
We get there on Friday.
I go out and I do practice and I was last.
And I mean like last and it was six tenths to the next guy in front of me.
Oh boy.
And we they went they went there straight and qualifying trim.
And it's hard for me to express to you like the O'Reilly cars at the time had like 500
horsepower and the cup cars had like 800.
Yeah.
And when I left pit run, so I left in qualifying trim.
I left in qualifying trim.
I rolled around the back stretch.
I started giving it throttle.
I'm like, oh, I've never felt anything like this in my life.
I didn't even want to go to high gear.
I'm going so fast right now.
And so we did like, I don't know, three qualifying runs and we were last.
And I remember Glover coming down and he put the window net down and he like pulled his
head to that off and he stuck his head in the window and he's like, well, you weren't
lying.
He's like, well, tough here, huh, buddy?
And I'm like, yeah, I told you guys it was going to be a struggle.
And so over that it ended up raining qualifying out.
And I was like, thank gosh, it rained because we started fifth, I think now.
And so they had told me like that night, they're like, you have to take a bigger arc into three.
There's a bump down there.
And I'm like, I don't even know what bump you're talking about.
Like I haven't even seen that bump yet.
The next day, the way the schedule was then I got to have, I think one or two practices
in the O'Reilly car.
And I left pit road and I'm like, this thing is, it's a turd.
Like it's so slow.
And I got to turn three and I'm like, oh, I see that bump they're talking about.
And I took a big arc and I got around it.
And I was like third in practice or something.
And we hadn't really been that fast in the, in the O'Reilly car up to that point either.
I think I was going to run second or third in the O'Reilly race.
The motor blew up fast forwarded the following day in the cup car.
And I was like, it just all made sense.
It just all made sense.
Yeah.
And they got me out front on some strategy.
And then all of a sudden I was leading.
And I had never led a truck race in O'Reilly.
I've never led anything.
And I'm like, I'm leaving a Charlotte.
Yeah.
100,000 fans there up the front stretch down the back stretch is unbelievable, man.
And you win that race is unbelievable.
What happens then?
All your dreams come true.
Well, it's, you know, I was, let me tell you something.
Being in victory lane was, was like the most special moment and also the most uncomfortable
because they called Sterling on a cell phone and they gave it to me.
And I knew in that moment I'm like, man, you just need to be very gracious right now
because this is his car.
He's hurt at home.
And there is no doubt that anybody that's ever had someone else get in their car.
So worst.
You root against them as much as you can.
You might not tell her about that.
Not outwardly, but internally.
But internally you're like, I hope it blows up on level one.
I hope he wrecks.
You just, you do not want to see them do be successful.
And I can only imagine the, the emotions that Sterling was going through where he led the
points all year.
His best year of his, his career, most likely, then he gets hurt and then they put this kid
in the car and he goes and I just, it would be terrible, right?
So I, that's what I remember.
I remember them handing me the cell phone.
I remember being so excited, but also it just being just uncomfortable.
Yeah.
But it obviously like, then I was like, well, gosh, I'm going to be easy.
I'm like, I'm like, I might win all the races.
We should just go the next weekend.
But it, yeah.
So it was, it was an incredible start.
How's Sterling Marlman?
Cuckoo's boy.
I haven't seen Sterling in a while, but I will tell you as a teammate, he was a, he was
awesome.
Yeah.
Like he was just fun.
Like Sterling, listen, he was like when I came along and there was a group of all of
us, Elliot, Dale Jr.
Gosh, Ryan Newman.
There was this young group wave that came along all right then.
And, and I remember Sterling getting annoyed on the restart.
She's like, why is everybody like going so fast?
Like why are hitting each other?
Just take a break.
It's 500 miles.
Like, but all of us were just like, you just go the outside, you'd pass people and it,
it was a, it was just, it is what it is.
You know, it kept escalating like as the years went on.
I'm not going to get there.
That's a good segue.
But Sterling, you know, Sterling was just like, man, it's, it's, we've got four hours to
figure this out.
Like where's, where's the fire?
Yeah.
Sterling was on our, was on my, got enough boy, boy kids now.
We had some name options.
I throw, I threw Sterling on the list.
That was a quick shot down.
I'm a massive Sterling Marlin fan.
Cuckoo's boy.
Let's, let's, let's go to Pocono since we raced yesterday.
Danny Hamlin is on a heater of all heaters and the stat.
Is that another baseball term?
No.
I mean, I guess.
Yeah, just like the mow, the mow is with you.
Just ride the mow.
But the, the stat that they keep pushing is three in a row from the pole.
When that's not even real, statistically sure.
Yeah.
But he started last twice.
Yep.
That's even more of an oppressive feat.
And he's 45, 43.
I think.
What do you think about what Danny's doing?
Well, I, I, um, first off, Denny obviously incredibly talented, but I feel like for,
because I do TV and, and the drivers like all the cars are the same.
I can tell you the 11's not the same as all the other ones.
The Toyota's clearly have an advantage.
I don't know what that is.
I mean, ever.
It's somewhere.
But there's a clear advantage of the speed that those cars have and Denny's has been
able to, I mean, all the Gibbs cars are fast, but the 11 is just capitalizing on it every
single weekend.
Yeah.
Some racing luck has went his way.
Also like Nashville, most likely shouldn't have won, but he did.
It doesn't matter how you get it done.
I mean, he's just, he's done an incredible job.
The fact that he can start in the back and drive through the fields, the way that he
has, but he's also so methodical.
I don't know that he gets credit, uh, you know, because you watch like, well, I mean,
I've watched the last three weeks and you're like, yeah, not today.
Like he's, you know, he's, he's just, then have it today.
They come in and I, I, I'm envious of guys like Denny and, and I'm going to say chase
Elliott, I'm going to put him in this category as well.
Because I feel like they run these first like 60% of the race.
You're like, yeah, they just don't have a car capable of winning, but it's because
they're not like going 10-tenths.
Yeah.
And I feel like when they used to the green flag, I was 11-tenths.
Yeah.
Like just driving as hard as I could every single lap to maintain.
And it's like those guys have this ability to, to not have to push the car to the limit.
And then when Denny, like at the end of Michigan, all of a sudden it's like, Denny is like,
well, let me show you actually how fast my car is today.
And he drives off to 11 second lead.
But what I would warn Denny of is age catches up with you.
And he's probably the best he's ever been right now.
But we, we don't get to pick when our reaction time goes down or when our eyes don't work
as well as they did.
And our kids, Denny and I, our kids go to school together.
So I see him at functions away from the track and he saw me with glasses on and he was a
little inquisitive about how long, you know, and I was like, oh, about 45 is when I needed
those.
But it's different for everybody.
But he just has to enjoy that why he has it right now because we've watched with a lot
of great drivers.
All of a sudden that just, that speed goes away and that ability goes away.
And it happens between 43 and 47, I would say.
It's, I mean, it's so impressive to see.
It is.
He's just getting better.
And he's been good since he was a rookie 20 years ago.
Really good.
So I was in, I was in Denny's first O'Reilly series race.
I believe it was Darlington and he was in the 20 Rockwell automation car.
And I remember Elliot Sadler was my best friend at the time and he's like, you got to watch
this guy.
And I'm like, why do you say that?
And he's like, I'm telling you, he's like, he's so smooth because Elliot knew him from
late model stock racing, you know, in, in this area.
And he's like, I've been watching him for a while and he's like, I'm telling you, incredibly
talented.
And I remember, I think Denny finished in the top five or he should have finished in the
top five in that first race.
And, and I'm like, it's pretty impressive to come to Darlington and to be able to do that.
Especially like those cars back then, they drove so bad.
Like is, it's pretty impressive.
It's been that way for 20 years now.
You talk about when you like guys like Sterling, there's like the evolution of racecraft, right?
The cars change, cars get quote unquote safer.
So it allows you to be more aggressive and you're not able, like you don't take into account
a driver's health like those guys had to in the 80s and 90s.
Like if you spun somebody out, there's a good chance that guy gets hurt.
So there was that prop.
There was that thought in somebody's head in terms of how they raised somebody to give
and take.
And then there was, you know, the, the car tomorrow stuff and now the dirty air becomes a little
more prevalent because now the disparity closed the gap even more.
Now you're as plugged in as anybody watch you broadcasting on CW and then you're doing
the TNT stuff.
You're starting up next week at Sonoma.
So you're, you're involved and you're as aware of what's going on with the cup garage as anybody.
When you watch the racecraft and the aggressiveness of the young guys coming in or even relative
to like the guys 35, 40 and up years ago when short track racing was generally stronger
than it is now.
Right.
So lean and the payouts aren't very good.
There still seems to be fans are going out to sport the short tracks more than they had
been lately.
Back in the day, they'd get guys like Kent Schrader and they would, they would fly a group
of guys.
I did a bunch of them.
Yeah.
That's what I wanted.
I know.
And they would hand you a brown cash.
Brown paper bag of cash.
You have a good story of like one of those instances where you drive somebody's pro stock
at Oxford Plains when you're up at New Hampshire or something like that.
I don't remember what kind of cars we even drove.
The guy's name was Bruce Payton.
That's who put those all on and they would, they would get, they get like six or eight
guys and when practice was over Saturday at whatever cup race we were at, we would all
get on a plane and fly somewhere as a group and then you bring your helmet and your fire
suit.
Yeah.
And you would get there and there would just be a line miles long outside the racetrack
because whatever, whatever the capacity was of the short track, they doubled it.
Yes.
That night.
Right.
Yeah.
And, and, but, you know, it wasn't just about racing.
They would set up like a little tent.
We'd sign autographs for a couple hours for all the fans and then you would go out and
those races were, were a little, they weren't staged, but like, they're like, don't, don't
check out exhibition.
Like let's, let's, let's race, you know, but as it got closer to the end, everyone got
a little selfish.
It was like, well, who'd you do those with?
Sterling did it.
I remember Carl Edwards did a couple of them with me.
Uh, I don't remember, I don't remember Rusty would do those.
Um, I don't remember.
And there was a, there was kind of a, there was just kind of a little consistent group
that would go do those.
I didn't do a lot of them, but I did a few of them.
I can't imagine Carl Edwards being in it for funsies.
Well, I only remember Carl doing it because, because we flew with, I think it was a Michigan
race and we flew somewhere, no, Chicago, because we were flying back into Joliet Airport.
And I don't remember who's plane we were on.
It was somebody's King Air and, and the, we were coming into land and the guy, the pilot
turns around and he's like, Hey, the landing gear lights aren't, we think there's a malfunction
in the lights, but we were pretty sure the gears down.
And I remember thinking, well, this isn't a good idea, but I couldn't get the words
to come out of my mouth.
And Carl was like, well, I got an idea.
How about if we go to a bigger airport in case they don't come down and the firetrucks
can come, you know, come put us out, come help us out here a little bit, right?
And I remember, I think we had to do like a fly by and they, the tower like, look, like
give us a thumbs up.
That's what I'm at.
The only reason I remember Carl going and doing that is because he obviously was a little
more into aviation than the rest of us were being a Missouri guy.
Do you have any good Carl Edwards stories?
I've really enjoyed my, I have one and I don't know if it's good, but I'll tell you my first
time I met Carl.
I was working for Mittler Brothers and when I say working for Mittler Brothers, I drove
that truck, but I was also one of two employees that worked on the truck all day long.
And it, Mittler Brothers shop, it was awesome.
It was an old quick trip like a C store.
And they had ripped everything out of it.
And we just had the trucks in there.
We had a dyno in there.
We had a bunch of great fab equipment because that's what he made.
Um, but it was in there working on the truck one day and Carl showed up.
Not into who Carl was, but he came in and, and I, and they knew him some, some other
people that were volunteering there kind of knew Carl.
And I remember talking to him and I, I believe if I, and I'm, I'm, this story is probably
exaggerated a little bit because it's been so long ago, but I think he was in like an
old chivette and it was hand painted or brushed orange.
Like he had, like it was, he just wanted to change colors.
And it was, I feel like it was brushed and like bright orange.
That sounds like, uh, yeah.
And I, and I just remember, I remember that's the first time that I had met him.
And then ironically, he drove that truck like after I left.
Yeah.
He's so fun to work with, man.
We got some penny for thoughts questions.
A couple of them here.
Can you read that?
Yeah.
I cannot read that.
Yeah.
Not, not very good.
I was, I was too scared to ask if you can read that or not.
I cannot read that now.
Cause it's a little fuzzy.
Talk about what I was going to, uh, Andrew Miller fires off with driving the one off race
for growing pro program and Colligan Ram.
What kind of goals do you have for yourself a team this weekend?
Uh, beat Corey.
I talked about this.
No, I, so my goal, I, I'm going to win.
Do you, do you feel at what, why do you feel so confident that you have it?
So I ran the, I ran, yeah, I ran the, I ran the robo last year.
It's spire.
You ran the, you ran the 77 truck.
Okay.
Yep.
Zillich was in the seven.
Yep.
Um, I qualified seventh, he qualified six by like 200.
So I'm like, Oh, like pretty good.
If Conor Zillich couldn't lose at a road course in O'Reilly's or, or in trucks.
And, and he's, he didn't miss a corner.
Did he?
No, no, I mean, it was, was a laugh.
Yeah.
And we got completely jacked around on, on strategy and we were always on the
opposite side driving past cars, and we ended up having a
flat and somebody fit it up.
So I felt like we were a top three car there.
And I think going somewhere new, I think most of these guys besides St.
St. Petersburg to start the year have never really driven on a, on a street course.
Yeah.
Uh, and my confidence is high road courses now.
I think that I, two years ago when I was done cup racing or cup opportunities
weren't there anymore from me.
I was a top 10 road course guy.
So I think that we're not going to be at an arrow disadvantage at a road
course.
I think it's going to be feel and, you know, you're not worried about
dragged on the straightaways.
I feel legitimately like, uh, we can go.
That's a great, that's a great attitude to have going into that.
I did not know you felt that way.
Yeah.
I put a lot through the help of Josh Wise and Scott speed.
It was a light bulb flip.
I was the worst cup.
I was the worst cup guy at a road course.
What was the, what the one really?
And what did you learn under braking?
Short, short track guy.
You're using brake as a tool not to like maximize slowdown.
You're using as a tool to like keep your right front engaged and tire slip and move
your men speed around the corner where road courses.
It's the, it's the most essential thing at a road course because it minimizes.
If you don't get your braking right, as you well know, you miss time, your men speed,
then you're going too slow, too early in the corner, then you try to force it and you
got too much wheel, try to tip throttle at the wrong point.
So for Scott speed to say, Hey man, you get the most amount of tire capability
under braking that you can make.
And you're a bigger guy.
You can stab the brake pressure.
Don't let off of it.
Like it's not this trail off thing.
It is a punch and hold, hold, hold.
And you're on the verge of where those front tires wanted to slip.
And it was like, Oh, that makes sense.
I never had anybody tell me that before.
Cause I had never, my first ever road course race
was it a cup car at Watkins Glen in my entire life.
No sim time, no nothing.
So I had learned my road course experience on national television.
And then got to work with Josh and Scott speed and instantly after three weeks,
I went from the last guy to probably a 10th to 12th place guy.
So I felt real good about that.
And I feel real good about San Diego this weekend.
Question number two from Blaine Russell.
What does he remember about his first truck season?
The more fulfilling one in 2000.
What does it like to have to taste big time success with that first poll?
What?
I don't know.
What the hell does that say?
What does he remember about his first truck season?
Would that have been with Miller Brothers or the 41 truck?
Yeah, I think that's the 41 truck there.
I'm assuming they're referring to that.
What do I remember about it?
Well, I remember, I remember it just being.
First off, this is what I remember when I drove for Miller Brothers
and Mike gave me this tremendous start, but it was just, it was older equipment.
I was, I was one of two employees and we just barely got to the track.
When I got to get in the Ferris concrete truck, I had like five employees
and the trucks were all painted.
I'm like, man, like I've made it.
You know, I mean, just, I just remember how nice the equipment was and appreciating that.
And then they had good speed.
So, I mean, it was a, it was a great moment for me.
I remember, I mean, I was living out of, I had a Tahoe and date myself.
I had a VCR in the back of it with like a couple of laundry baskets with like movies and races.
What was your, what was your tape of taste?
I don't know.
I remember, I don't remember.
I had a tape with like major league.
No, I'm going to disappoint you here at this.
Like what weird science and what was that?
There was like two movies on their goonies maybe or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, I don't know.
I mean, it was like, you would tape things at home on TV.
You know, I was like, yeah, yeah.
So anyway, I just remember it was a great time though, because I was live.
I grew up in Missouri.
They were in Texas and I was driving back.
It was like a five hour trip.
I was driving back and forth and then I ended up moving to Kentucky later that year.
It was just a fun, fun time.
Yeah.
All right.
We're going to ask you three questions we would normally ask.
Flipping changing gears from paying for your thoughts to three questions.
First question is this.
We ask all of our drivers and any guest.
One track and one race, one track and one car the rest of your life.
What do you go with?
Modified at Franklin County?
No.
One track, one car Sonoma 2014 cup.
Lots of grip.
What about it?
Just lots of power, big spoilers.
I loved going to Sonoma that track.
It was a fun race track.
It had good grip, could fall off.
I just always enjoyed there or Martinsville, honestly, and probably that car.
It would definitely be that car because that was the time when we had
the most most power and also the biggest spoilers.
Whenever that range was, it was pretty fun.
You could literally blaze the tires from the hairpin all the way up to one.
If you wanted to.
I also remember the year I won the All-Star race, which was kind of that same era.
They had a 10 lap shootout.
You got four new tires and 10 laps at the end.
I took the lead in that race on the first lap.
I remember I ran like four or five laps.
On the map.
And I'm like, well, they can't pass me because I'm barely lifting in turn three
and I'm just like a wide open all around the track.
And I remember it being kind of easy and the amount of grip that I had
and contemplating, I'm like, this thing has 900 horsepower.
And I just have it wide open right now.
Madded.
I'm like, I don't care if it's Kevin Harvick.
I don't think he's going to catch me.
Would you spend your All-Star winnings on?
Would you buy anything cool?
Or anything dumb?
Nope.
I've never made a dumb purchase in my life.
Really?
No, I don't.
Smart investment, fella.
No, I mean, I just, I don't know.
I mean, I have a great house.
I don't, I guess.
You're selling your house.
I'm trying to, you know.
Yeah, let's promote that.
Oh, check out the Zilla List.
Well, yeah, we'll put that in the comments for you.
Put a link.
Question number two.
What's the most embarrassed you've ever been at the racetrack?
Probably Franklin County a couple of weeks ago.
Damn it.
Give the fans a little bit of context because if you know, you know,
on Franklin County, but, buddy, it's unlike anything you've ever seen.
I mean, yeah.
So, I mean, let me say.
You ever seen the Instagram account Weeber, Weeber Bill or Weeber Bill Speedway?
It's like an AI, oh my God.
Is it good?
Oh, it's the best.
Oh, I need to click on it.
Weeber Bill Speedway on Instagram is Franklin County for an asphalt racetrack, buddy.
Oh, yeah.
If Franklin County is an interesting place.
Yeah.
But so, like, I think I heard you guys, I think Ryan was talking about it.
I've never worn underwear under my fireproof underwear.
I'm glad you brought this.
I mean, like, I've never, like, I just, that's why you have fireproof underwear is to take place of your underwear.
We got to talk about it.
And so, well, no, let's just go here.
Yeah, yeah.
So, no, no, no.
But like, I mean, for years, I had a motor home and or I went into like the back of the trailer and I would change, right?
You have privacy.
Yeah.
I mean, it just is what it is.
And so, we get to, I mean, even when I tested that modified, I'm like, man, I hope I don't hope no one's looking.
Because I'm just, I got to get my underwear off and get these other.
And I did it as quick as I could, right?
And I would face the front of the trailer.
And I don't know if the team guys saw, but if they did, they didn't acknowledge me.
And I just didn't, you know, so anyway, we get to Franklin County and and that trailer, freaking trailer is 50 foot long.
I'm in the very front of it, the side door shut.
And I'm like, I'm just going to change, change my clothes here real quick, right?
So I did.
And I got, I literally was in the front of the trailer.
I went back to get my like, put the rest of my clothes on and I saw my phone was, I'm like, man, my phone's blowing up.
Wonder why.
Wish me good luck.
My wife, first one, she's like, she says, I just want you to know that my mom is watching the race because Carter's in the race with me.
She thinks she saw you naked on TV.
And I'm like, when they, I'm like, what is she talking about?
I'm like, I haven't, I haven't been naked.
Yeah.
And I didn't realize that they had this drone.
It was a drone.
I think.
Was it a drone?
There it is.
There you go.
Yeah.
But now, listen, you're kind of hosing me here because that's a little bit zoomed in to what the actual image was.
But yeah, that's some Franklin County shit.
Like, you don't have a, I can't believe you go commando on your fireproof underwear.
You don't.
I'm just like a, I'm a brief sky under my fire suit.
I don't do pants.
But like.
You probably should.
I probably should.
Well, I mean, I just, there's, when you get in a race car, there's a lot going on in that area.
There is.
And less.
There's more.
Bunching is better.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, you should try it.
I think if you did that at San Diego, I feel like you're going to get in and you'd be like,
I'm jammed up.
Dan McMurray was right.
Like I feel pretty free right now.
Like.
I might have to try it out.
I don't know if I'll just drop trial right in the middle of the pit area.
Well, I won't, I won't be doing, let me tell you something.
When I drive that modified next, it'll be with two pairs of underwear on.
That was, man, that's pretty good.
Yeah.
I showed, I showed Dale.
So that would have been Saturday night.
It's Friday night.
Okay.
Friday night of, of.
Charlotte.
Was it Charlotte?
Yep.
Nashville.
Right.
So we got our production meeting.
I said, did you see, see Jamie?
You watch the little race?
No, I didn't get a chance to watch it.
I said, you miss this?
You got to pay for your subscription.
So what the hell is he doing?
Dropping his drawers, wearing underwear.
Question number three.
Yeah.
If I had the men in black pen, if I zapped all of your racing memories,
you don't get to keep one.
What do you keep one moment?
Oh, it's going to surprise you because it's not on track.
So when I won at Talladega in 2014 or 15, it would have been,
I think it was my last cup win.
My kids had never been to Victory Lane.
And when I got to Victory Lane, I remember getting out and I was like scanning,
like, like, like, where are they, you know?
And I was like, it's nap time.
I bet my wife's going to let him sleep.
And I was like, gosh, I wish she would bring him over here.
And she did.
I found him.
And so I got to have this.
I got to have a picture in Victory Lane with them.
And, and I remember Carter's hair was all sticking up because he'd been sleeping.
And just in a bad mood too.
For me, like that that is a great memory.
And then I would say the second thing would be after I won the Daytona 500,
I got out of my car.
And I remember like, I just remember I prayed so much leading up to that
because I'd lost my job the year before.
And I remember, I just remember, I'm like, I can't believe what's just happened.
I had this great moment in the infield.
It was awesome.
That's cool, man.
Great answers.
Let's land this bird here.
But before we're just going to go, we're going to San Diego,
talk about truck race and talk about we haven't really talked too much about O'Reilly.
Who's your pick for which one for Saturday for O'Reilly?
You're kind of putting me on the spot here.
It's it's a an interesting weekend because they don't let
any they won't let anyone from above or below come run.
And it's normally pretty easy because you just pick Connor SVG.
Right.
Right.
Who's the best?
You know my good?
Jesse Love.
OK.
Jesse Love.
I spoke with him last weekend.
He told me he felt pretty good about it.
I went on a limb, not really on a limb.
I went with Brent Cruz on the post race yesterday.
That's a good pick, too.
He's exceptional.
He is.
He was like a second faster than the truck field a lot.
It was ridiculous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those are here's the thing with whoever we pick for San Diego.
San Diego, I don't think I'll be about the fastest person.
No, it will not.
It will be about survival.
Yeah.
And it's not even about one of those.
Like it's not even about Jesse or Brent making a bad decision.
It's about someone behind them.
Making a wheel chopping and chunking.
Yeah.
And I just think you're going to see a lot of wheel hops and people get wrecked.
And it was like, I didn't mean to.
Like I just hit the bumper on it.
And now your day's done.
Sorry about it.
We're both done.
Next guy up.
Yeah.
Sunday.
SVG.
Oh, I mean, think he'll be far enough ahead that no one will be able to hit him in the back.
No kidding.
Dude, he's he's so fast.
Yeah.
And the more technical and more treacherous of a circuit that guy's just kind of his skills will overcome his skills were just shine even brighter.
One of the guys from Racing Insights, maybe Pratt and Miller, I was talking to the other day.
And he's like, he's an eye racing, right?
Young guy, no kids or anything.
He's on eye racing two o'clock in the morning because I saw an eye race last night and I fired up at like two 15.
I was bored and SVG is in there cutting laps in San Diego.
Two 15 in the morning.
Wow.
Yeah.
So I'm not doing that.
I don't think anybody other than many other cup drivers doing that.
Yeah, that's a wonder why I wonder what's going on at 2.15 a.m. in the SVG house that you're on.
He probably like, I made I got I got me four hours of sleep.
I'm a five simulator rig and go get a terrible, terrible access.
I got some access to that pretty good SVG to work on.
That was more of a British.
Yeah, that's it on San Diego.
I don't think I've been looking.
I don't think I've been looking more more ahead, more optimistic and more excited for a race in a while.
Who do you like?
I know you feel really good about the truck race.
Lane Riggs is a dude.
He is in here, right?
Like he won St. P, right?
Who else?
Hiding cut does a pretty good job on the road course, too.
He does.
I think he's going to have like we talked about the tools.
He's got the tools and he's got the help and he's got the truck underneath of him to be being attention.
I would I think Lane Riggs is going to be you got to go through him.
I think he I think he's in my opinion the most cup ready guy in trucks.
What do you think will be a successful day for the driver of the 25?
One piece.
I think if you just keep it one piece and keep the fenders on it, if all things consider somebody else,
you stay around other people, that's the thing.
Trucks of all of them have the steel body still so they don't have the composite.
It's zero forgiveness.
Yeah.
Somebody's breeze on your left for a quarter.
It's into the tire and you got to come down.
Like it's it's frustrating that regard.
So give yourself like way more space than where do you think I'm going to qualify?
Because that's just a speed thing.
17 19.
Oh, so I honestly, if I get in the top 20, I'd be pretty happy.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Yeah, I think I'm I'm shooting.
I think you have to qualify in the top seven to be in contention to win.
So that's my goal.
Very good.
That's all that's all I got guys.
Stay tuned.
Follow us along on Instagram at underscore second pennies.
Follow along Jamie and Parker and Alma Alexander on Saturday and the CW broadcast.
You guys have been doing an awesome job over a million viewers each and every week.
That seems like that series just on the rise.
You guys do a great job covering it.
And the racing super exciting.
Really good racing.
Every every week we get blessed with great races.
Yeah, that makes that makes your job up in the booth easy, but you guys are crushing it.
So follow those guys.
Follow him on social media.
Follow Carter.
What's his social as you got Facebook and screen 27.
I'm going to honestly can't just spit one of those out right now.
Sorry.
Follow Carter's journey, man.
He's going to be doing some cool things over the next several months to keep up with him.
He's going to run some late mile stock stuff as well as modified.
You got him going.
So good luck to him.
Appreciate you guys listening to us each and every week.
We we got we had Chip Bowers.
We had RFK President Chip Bowers last week, but we banked it because everyone's been traveling back
from San Diego on Monday.
So we talked to him about all things RFK.
He has a lot of sports experience in different leagues.
MLB NBA.
So he had he gave us a lot of cool stories and just a little bit peek behind the curtain.
What are case going on?
Did he tell you have bushers going to be back?
I didn't.
I didn't put a contract update.
I didn't put him on the spot.
Where do you think he's going to end up?
They would be they would be in bad shape if he left.
I think Chris Boucher.
I just hear his name pop up a lot of places and normally that's because you're talking to a lot
of people.
Yeah, you know.
And his stock is exceptionally high.
Should be he makes he has always maximized the day.
He has for as long as he's been on Sunday.
Yeah, he's that kind of guy.
Yeah.
And he he's humble.
He puts the work in.
He's not flashy.
Doesn't care to be.
He's he's he's awesome.
I've got to talk to him in depth a little bit about it over the last couple of weeks.
And I don't want to lean one way or the other.
But he's he's having some thoughts and some think about making some tea charts.
That always helped me literally.
What's a tea chart?
Pros and cons.
This opportunity where I'm at is this.
Yeah.
This is what I don't like chat.
GPT to help with those.
I would hope a big good call.
I mean, chat GPT might as well just script your life out for you these days.
It's an incredible.
It's a credible tool.
It is.
I I got some flack on this, but that's how we decided not we.
I propose the name Emmett after a many, many prompts on chat GPT.
Listen, you said this earlier and I didn't chime in.
But as the man, the husband, the dad, I was thankful that I even got McMurray on my.
Yeah, you can have it.
I am not going to win any of these battles.
Kelly, you're awesome.
She is.
Christy, you're awesome.
Yeah, so not often that we get to, you know,
give credit or credit to Kelly's crushing it with four kids at the house.
It's a lot.
Dude, my house is WrestleMania every night.
I love it.
I love it, man.
So and I love you guys.
I love you guys for coming in here, tuning into us each and every week for sacking pennies.
Hope you enjoy it.
Keep stacking pennies each and every day.
Get you where you want to go.
I'm looking forward for this week, buddy.
San Diego is going to be cool for the sport.
It's going to be cool for our country.
It's going to be cool for our drivers.
And I'm excited your teammate this weekend.
Yep.
I would say that I don't think I have seen why haven't I've never seen so much enthusiasm
around because it's more than a race this weekend.
It's an event like the what they're doing there.
I know Chicago was big.
This is this is 10 times bigger in Chicago.
Well, you're going to have to tune in, whether it's on CW or on prime for P and Q and racing
on Sunday and then FS one, I believe, I'm sure for for the truck racing on Friday.
I'll be there at the 10.
Fox, I think, actually.
Oh, network TV.
I believe I would say this is on Fox by the guest.
That's a big one.
So I'll be running the 1010 Mopar Ram.
You'll be driving the 25.
Looks pretty cool with Scott.
Yeah, they put fighter helmets on our Rams on the side of the truck.
So we're going to have some very, very Coronado themed schemes this week.
I like it.
So it's gonna be good.
Appreciate you guys.
Appreciate Jamie.
Y'all have a fantastic week.
About this episode
Jamie McMurray is back on the racing radar, and the conversation starts with nerves: “I am beyond nervous” and “Terrified, yeah.” The hosts then zoom out to what it really takes to get comfortable—different car classes, exposed feelings in sprint-car driving, and the grind of preparation. Carter’s development becomes a centerpiece, with film review and debriefs, plus coaching that balances guidance with letting him build his own process. The talk also covers sponsorship reality, race strategy, and even road-course braking technique.
Original notes
Jamie McMurray joins Corey LaJoie for a wide-ranging conversation about returning to competition, preparing for the San Diego street race, and helping his son Carter chase his own racing dreams.
The two discuss Denny Hamlin's recent run of dominance, the evolution of driver development, Jamie's memorable first Cup win and Daytona 500 victory, and what today's young drivers face on their path to NASCAR's top level.
It's part racing insight, part storytelling, and full of the behind-the-scenes perspective only two racers can provide.
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