Heather Gibbs: Losing Coy, Charter Negotiations, & Ty's First Cup Win

Heather Gibbs: Losing Coy, Charter Negotiations, & Ty's First Cup Win The Dale Jr. Download · Jul 1, 2026

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Company

Joe Gibbs Racing

A highly successful professional race team started by famous football coach Joe Gibbs that races cars in NASCAR's top divisions.

Person

Ty Gibbs

A young, talented NASCAR driver who races for his family's team, Joe Gibbs Racing, and is the grandson of the team's founder.

Place

Bristol Motor Speedway

A famous, very short, and highly steep concrete race track in Tennessee where cars race incredibly close together, often bumping into each other.

Person

Denny Hamlin

A famous and very successful NASCAR driver who has won the Daytona 500 three times and also co-owns his own race team with Michael Jordan.

Term

track position

How close to the front of the race a car is. Drivers hate giving up their spot near the front because it is very hard to pass other cars to get back there.

Term

pit box

The command center on the side of the track where the team's coaches and engineers sit to watch the race on screens and make strategy decisions.

Person

Coy Gibbs

A former racer and team leader at Joe Gibbs Racing who was the father of driver Ty Gibbs and sadly passed away in 2022.

Place

Daytona International Speedway

The most famous race track in NASCAR, located in Florida, where the biggest race of the year (the Daytona 500) is held at extremely high speeds.

Person

Chris Gabehart

The head coach and strategist (crew chief) for Denny Hamlin's NASCAR race car.

Term

late model

A type of powerful, custom-built race car used on local short tracks that serves as a training ground for young drivers trying to make it to the big leagues of NASCAR.

Concept

It is like a franchise ticket for a NASCAR team. Having a charter guarantees your car gets to race in every main event and guarantees you get a piece of the prize money, making the team worth a lot more money if you want to sell it.

Company

JR Motorsports

A top-level race team owned by Dale Earnhardt Jr. and his sister Kelly that competes in NASCAR's second-highest division.

Company

23XI Racing

A NASCAR race team co-owned by basketball superstar Michael Jordan and racing driver Denny Hamlin.

Part

engine dyno

A high-tech machine used in race shops to test how much power and speed an engine can make before they actually put it inside the race car.

LIVE

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.

Welcome to the business of motorsports. It is yours truly, Kelly Earnhardt Miller.

You know, one thing that I really hope that this series does is open up people's horizons.

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There's so much more involved in decision.

I don't want to rip my head off every day.

I say yes to it.

Oh, you say yes on the phone?

Well, you made me say.

This episode of Business of Motorsports is presented by Arby's.

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All right. Well, welcome today to Business of Motorsports.

I'm super excited to have Heather Gibbs here from Joe Gibbs Racing.

We're going to just dive into a lot of topics.

I'm Heather and I'm super excited to hear a lot of different stories.

I learned a few things I'm going to ask you about.

One thing's not on here, but I promise it's not bad.

Before we get into this is Business of Motorsports.

We're usually talking about how things work and all of the challenges and all that we have in the sport and the fun that we have in the sport.

I don't want to make it all bad. It's not bad. It's a great sport.

But I want to start with the win at Bristol for Ty. Super special.

I understand the legacy of family, obviously, being in the sport.

And you guys, like our family, there are so many parallels to our families.

We have been through our share of heartache and agony in the sport and you guys especially in the Gibbs family.

What did this feel like?

I mean, that just had to be such a moment.

I watched on TV. We were excited. We're Ty Gibbs fans.

We've competed alongside him in the micros and sprint cars and things like that.

So what was that like for you as a mom?

You know, it's so funny just kind of going back thinking about it.

I never like ever stopped to think, what would I do if he wins?

I think just being so busy with the business of racing, having four kids,

I never kind of crossed my mind.

And also, it's really hard. You got to be your teammate.

You got to be Denny Hamlin on the track.

So your first year going in, you're thinking,

oh, we won so many races in Xfinity at the time.

We'll immediately win.

And you realize you were successful there.

You're going to get your butt kicked here.

And so it's very humbling.

So I just never kind of stopped to think about it.

So at the end of the race, and he's leading and we have a tired deficit.

And I love that when the caution came out the first time and they're like,

we want to come in and Ty's like, I don't want to lose track position.

And I was like, OK.

Because usually he's young and learning.

So he's not as vocal like, crew chief, you call the play.

I'm just going to go along with whatever you.

I'm a dog in the hunt.

So I love that he's like, no, keep me out.

And I'm like, oh, keep them out.

And then knowing that Larsson and Blaney had fresher tires,

caution comes out again.

And I'm like, you know what?

It was a great run.

If you finish top three, three.

And where we are sitting, I really couldn't see the start finish line.

Our TV, you know, I'm up on the pit box.

So I'm just listening to Tony Hirschman.

And, you know, you know, he's like, all right, you know, get cleaned up,

get ready for your restart.

And and then I just I remember hearing him and he's like, finish your Ben,

finish Mo's with you, you know, go and watching the guys jump off the pit box.

And I've never like at that moment, it was just so, so emotional.

And I'm so good at compartmentalizing and guarding my emotions that it all kind of

everything came out all at once.

And I just, I mean, it probably took me 10 minutes to get my composure.

And Byron, who's one of our great employees and helps with coach a lot.

And he just said, you take all the time you need.

So I was up there for for a while, you know, just trying to just just

just wishing so bad being so proud of Ty, but wishing so badly that Coy was there.

It was just kind of the happiest and the saddest.

And that emotion just it just was overwhelming.

I called, you know, my daughter and then case and jet later, my younger two,

but took a while to get me to come down and, you know, you're walking down there

and, you know, being at the track all day, you know, I'm like my makeup's all over my face.

My hair's a wreck, you know, it's just it's rough for women at the track, right?

And walking up and, you know, I could see Ty kind of looking for me.

And finally, when I got over there, you know, he jumped over the wall and gave me the flag.

And it was just for everybody and watching all of our pit crews, like, you know,

the guys in the 20 car and the 19 come running down and all of them celebrating.

It was just it was like it was a family win.

So it was just it was the coolest thing, the saddest thing, the happiest all all mixed into one.

So you jumped in the car and rode to victory lane with them.

Were there what were the what's the dialogue between the two of you?

What are you thinking?

So the funny part is, you know, when after Ty and then he ran over, saw coach,

and then he's he starts to climb back over the wall and then he looks at me and he's like,

come on. And I'm like, I'm not getting in the car.

And he's like, get in the car. Come on, mom.

So I'm, you know, trying to gracefully hop over the wall in my dress and get in the car.

And I wanted to do it because I was so excited for him.

And I was like, gosh, it's so hot in there. I mean, that was one thing.

It's not meant for a passenger.

You know, there's nowhere you're like gracefully kind of squatting in there.

And but the ride around he was funny because he's like, we can just keep it on the apron.

I'm like, yeah, just keep it on the apron. He's like, no, we're going to the top.

So I'm holding sideways, but watching all the fans cheer, you know,

you don't ever get to see that part of it and watching them cheer for him.

That was really just, it was just unbelievable.

And then when we pulled up, you know, Bristol, obviously you have to go up the ramp.

And the line of people like, I think the second most special thing was watching the NASCAR community.

You know, obviously media plays it one way you have to. It's good content, good stories.

But, you know, it was like, this is one of our own.

And finally, you know, just watching just the amount of drivers and owners and crew chiefs

and just members coming over and, you know, just congratulating him.

And it was, I just, it was just really just such an emotional, like special moment.

I can feel it. You know, we had those moments back in 2001 with Dale at Daytona

and that July race and all, and I can feel exactly, you know, what you're describing

and that excitement and obviously being a mom of a race or two and those feelings that you have

when they accomplish something, you know, he's had his share of criticism right through the career at that point.

A lot of noise about, you know, whether he deserves a seat, you've got the stuff going on with Chris Gaye part,

you've got just the pressure of being in a Joe Gibbs car and being a relative.

That's the hard part, being a family member.

You know, what did this prove to you guys or did it prove anything?

I mean, I think for me, I never doubted it.

I think being a part of our O'Reilly series and the Arca series and watching kids come up through the ranks.

I mean, Ty, he didn't start running go-karts until he was like 12.

He was old for getting into the racing business.

He wanted to, he raced bicycles. He wanted to do the tour to France one day.

I mean, he loved road bike mountain bikes.

So we were kind of later into the racing, you know, now they start so young and you're all over the place traveling.

So I think he's been, you know, kind of came into it and just having that, you know, kind of target on your back everywhere you go.

You know, you're a silver spoon or you, you know, someone's writing the check for you.

And it's funny because for us, it was great for Ty just to be able to learn to have grit.

I remember, you know, as he was coming through late models and they have the NASCAR next and Coy was like, yeah, we're not doing that.

Go win and they'll talk about you.

It is amazing some of the things as parents that we do to protect them in that way, right?

You know, whether we allow them to be part of NASCAR next or, you know, we're even in the considerations why it drives our late model car here.

But, you know, is that a great thing?

Do we want them to go race with other people, different things like that?

Or, you know, we, in the cars tour, we have a relationship with Kevin Harbick and Keelan doesn't run all of our races for that very reason.

You know, it's you get the, you get the noise and the noise can be a distraction even when you know where we stand as a family, how we go about things, the hard work that's put into it and all of those things.

You know, just a side note from me.

We obviously, you know, had our run ins with Ty and the Xfinity series at the time and, you know, I didn't know Ty very well and I only got to see kind of that on track side of Ty at the time and when we started being around him under the

and, and LWB's like, man, you won't believe how nice that Ty Gibbs is.

He is a nice kid and I was like, really?

And, you know, I love to hear that.

And because I'm guilty as everyone to kind of have that, you know, judge a book by its cover kind of thing, right?

I'm just as guilty.

I'm human.

And it's, it's was great, you know, getting to know him through that lens and he's got such a great personality and he's really cool and down to earth.

But, you know, that's not the vibe that he gave, you know, and I'm sure like, he seems somewhat shy until he gets to know you, you know, he's definitely guarded.

I think it's, it's hard in our sport, you know, we, these young kids come up, we're watching them under a microscope.

They say stupid things.

They do stupid things.

You're doing it.

You're doing it in middle school and high school, but they're on the national stage.

You know, I laugh because I'm like, I can't imagine if we like, mic'd up our travel baseball parents and what they really think of your kid.

Oh yeah.

And, and, and our young drivers are facing it, you know, the criticism live and they do something stupid.

I mean, can you imagine if you're every single time you go to high school, you know, a sporting event and your son's fight is on the jumbo tron, you know, you're like, yes, there it is again.

Thank you.

But I'm glad we didn't grow up in that age of all the video and digital age that there is today.

My daughter Carson, she's since she was young, she said the same thing.

I can't just be a normal kid, you know, and, and do normal kid things.

And it's a, it's not that they're trying to do bad things.

It's just a maturity level at the end of the day.

Right.

I mean, we did things, said things, hid things, whatever, you know, all of those things that kids do.

And, but yeah, you're right, they're held to a different standard because they're in the limelight and they're supposed to be role models.

But, you know, what, at what age is that fair?

Right.

You know.

And they're, they're learning how to handle circumstances, you know, and, and learning the sport and how to respect people, how to earn respect, how to show your, you know, like, can't push me around.

How, how far do you push that?

And I mean, it is, it's tough.

And I'm sure as, especially as like Wyatt, you know, in the name, kids want to beat him.

They want to be like, yeah, I got street cred.

I beat that, you know, I mean, and, and if you don't beat them, well, they have their equipment.

They have more money, you know, and I think that's Kenny Wallace, I think, did a really great podcast one time or interview.

And he was talking about like, what kid goes to like the go-kart track when you have the rental carts and they're like, give me the slowest car because I, you know, I mean, you, you want the best stuff.

You want to get in the best stuff.

And I think that's what we've been able to, you know, start with trust in other people.

And then we bring it in house and kind of manage the whole course of it.

Absolutely.

So talking about bringing it in house, let's shift to Joe Gibbs racing.

We got a lot of topics in terms of the charter and different things like that.

But, you know, I know that fans don't always understand what it takes to run a race team.

We're also going to get into, to you moving into that role.

You guys have 450 employees.

I have 130 and I'm like, oh my gosh, times that by three.

Yeah.

Four cup teams.

Just the massive demand, sponsorship, partnership, all of those kinds of things.

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You said in your testimony during the lawsuit, you know, that you guys have operated on about a 2% profit margin.

And I feel you just after reading that, I've never really looked at our profit margin because I'm just happy if it's in the black.

Right?

Like it can be zero.

It can be $10,000.

It can be $100,000.

And I'm just happy that it's in the black.

I looked at ours and we're about a one and a half percent.

So I feel you.

But you know, we don't, we don't do this.

We junior motorsports doesn't do this to make money.

Right.

You know, we, we started our team because of the legacy of our family and the passion of racing.

And, you know, we get in here and we're like, if we, from the very first days, if we were able to, you know, just ride that fence on the line of slightly profitable or not losing, you know, our butt, that was good for us.

And I always say to Dale, you know, we have, you got, you have 450 families.

I have 130 families.

And they make their living doing this, you know, and we're fortunate in other ways that, that we can, you know, we've made a living.

We've done things.

Dale's career, so on and so forth.

You are a very accomplished realtor and the family at Joe Gibbs.

So, you know, there's no room for error kind of in this sport to, to, to mess up.

Explain kind of what that looks like to the fans in terms of this, you know, the way we operate and this very minor profit margin that we're going to, and the pressures of that, you know, when it comes to, to sponsors and partners.

You even said, I think this year you've got 20 sponsors.

Yeah.

26 this year.

26 sponsors.

Yep.

I feel you, you know, and, and that costs money too.

You're changing wraps.

You're changing this.

It's more demand on your people to, to prioritize those relationships and how do you prioritize what and how, you know, based off of their involvement.

So talk about that a little bit just in terms of, you know, how, how you feel about that and the sport and running Joe Gibbs from that perspective.

Well, you know, I think for Joe Gibbs racing, it started as a hobby, right?

With coach after, after coming from the Redskins and he and my mother-in-law put kind of a dream on a piece of paper and, and they built it from there.

They never imagined, you know, from one car to two to three to 44 O'Reilly cars, one Arca car and, and never could they have imagined that it would have grown.

And, and I think what they always wanted was that they had the right people, but they wanted coach.

He didn't want to just, you know, be an owner and something that was fun.

He wanted to win.

And, and I think for us, that's probably the most important thing.

I'm, it probably is unbalanced and, you know, competitive.

I sometimes I'm like, I wish didn't care, but I care so much and we want to win.

So that means putting everything back in.

It's not putting it back in your wallet.

Not it puts it right back in there.

And there's, and there's no outside revenue for us.

We're the business of racing.

We're bringing in sponsorship.

We don't have car dealerships.

We don't have any outside other.

So every, every, you know, every sponsor counts and, and those relationships count because you can't,

if you don't have partners on the track, you can't compete.

And, and ours, they want to be in the front.

They don't want to be in the back.

And, and so having like the right drivers, all of that matters.

And, and that's where we put all of our four, you know, it's funny.

We, we didn't have a sign in the front of the building forever because we were like, it doesn't make us go fast.

So finally we spent the money to put a sign in the front of the shop, but we were like, everything we do, we want to make it go fast.

And yeah, I mean, we've grown our social media team, our marketing team.

We're like a mini marketing department.

We're working on like, you know, capital campaigns for progressive and just so many different things with 26 partners.

I mean, back in the day, you know, you had, you had a FedEx, Mars and, you know, you that you just, it was one and it was easy.

And they brought their own marketing department.

I think this is also a good thing for us because we always worry.

I know Koi always worried what's going to happen when, when the name of the organization isn't there to run it, you know, where he's like, the doors are going to be shut.

We won't be able to do it.

And I think we've diversified so much trying to bring in that ROI for the different, you know, the different sponsors and showing our, you know, value, our media value that you see light at the end of the tunnel.

That these amazing patriarchs that are still here and running and running the operation and being a part of it.

There, there is an opportunity to continue to keep these sponsorships happy and the teams doing well, you know, bringing in great, you know, like, like progressive is a great.

They just wanted to, they didn't want to talk to us.

They just want to know what is our earned media value.

And finally, you know, coach loves to call people in winner circle.

And he was like calling the security guard because there was, we literally had no number for now we're great friends with like Trish and Mari.

But at the time we were like, just give him, I was like, give him someone else like give him your wife's number and let him call and answer just so he feels good, you know, talking to him.

But, but that was, you know, just having that personal detail.

But now, you know, that we've shown our value and I think the teams like you guys do such a good job of, you know, representing different sponsors, the drivers do a great job.

I mean, they, they all play an important role in it.

But it is, it's, and then you've got 415 employees, you've got, you know, down from, like I said, Arca and O'Reilly and the cups here, you know, it matters to them.

So they, you know, they, it is there, you're taking care of their family, it's their livelihood and it is really stressful.

Not watching how much our team has diversified has helped, you know, me kind of have like more of a peace of mind.

I mean, it's, it's not me, it's, it's having a great leadership team around you.

And we, I feel like Jogo's Racing has done a great job of that.

Yeah, Joe Mattis here has always said, you know, we're a marketing company that just happens to race.

And I think that's how we have to look at it, especially through the lens of gone are those full season sponsorships, you know, that we've had.

And, and you said something else that I think is important, like with progressive and what they're interested in, you know, we have to listen to the sponsor.

We have to really no, no longer can we just provide a sheet of paper and say, you know, this is how we can service you.

We have to listen to them and then take all of these assets that we have and then figure out what makes the most sense, you know, what they're looking for to meet.

Because you can mess the sponsorship up that way, right?

By thinking that, you know, what they want or only focusing on what we're best at and it not really work, you know, for them.

And the whole marketing department is a whole different animal from when I started in the sport.

Like you said, sponsors had agencies and they had multiple agencies.

They had a PR agency.

They had a creative agency, you know, all of these different agencies and we as the race teams have become that agency.

Yes.

And we have had to acquire necessary skill sets within the company and within the marketing departments to do that.

I'm sure that you guys have have done the same thing.

Yes.

Well, and I think what's the coolest part about NASCAR is the fact that, you know, you could you could buy a spot on an MLB team or NBA team.

And you, you know, get a little patch on a jersey, but they're not going to rename the team, you know, after that sponsorship where you are the, you know, you are the monster energy car.

You are the SIA car.

You are the Bass Pro, you know, where you get to represent them in different areas and, and the access to the driver, the access to the teams, the pit crew.

I mean, the identity and the branding is, it's amazing.

And for two hours on a Saturday, three hours on a Sunday, that that brand is seen.

And, and I think the teams do a great job.

I mean, I think, and that's one thing that's been a huge focus for us, but also learning.

Some are in it just for B2B.

Some are in it just for earned media.

You know, and those are where you have to sit and think and go through.

We have a whole, you know, we have a group that just, that is all we do is business to business and try to figure out how you introduce this sponsor to this other sponsor and across the industry, which I think is great.

You know, where if they have access, you know, like young life loves to be there on a Saturday.

Those people get to interact with other other sponsors at the track.

And I think that NASCAR does a really good job allowing the teams to put them together and work together.

Yeah, absolutely.

This was like a good time to talk about Denny's success and kind of, you know, thinking through how you go about planning and running your race team.

You know, we're constantly looking, we try to look two and three years out.

You know, in this sport, that's difficult due to sponsorships and all the business that you're trying to make.

You know, we're already starting now talking about 27.

It never stops, you know, but there's a real focus and emphasis when you get to June and you're like, okay, what does 27 look like?

And I thought about it too as you were talking about Bass Pro with your, with the Truex to Brisco transition.

You know, Denny has a contract through 27.

Man, is he on a roll.

I mean, congratulations.

Wow.

Thank you.

He just said, take, you know, it was Reddick.

I thought that was going to run away with the season and here comes Denny right there.

But you know, what does that look like for you guys as you're planning and doing, you know, looking at what 28 looks like at this point?

Well, I mean, I think for Denny, it's, it's kind of funny because every, you know, so many years, you would change the crew chief and there's just like a whole new ramp up of Denny.

And I think he is, he has come into his own.

He's, he's comfortable.

He's confident.

He's got kind of a piece about him.

The entire art, you know, our whole cut program right now is, it has this great camaraderie and kind of a gel about them.

The crew chiefs do, and it really reflects back to the drivers.

And it's, it's really,

Is that something new for you that you feel is just really something special this year?

Yeah, I mean, I think all the crew chiefs just there and, you know, having Wally Brown does a great job as a competition director.

He's, he's more of a facilitator.

He's not a dominator.

So he's, he's a great go back and forth on ideas.

He'll let you share your opinion instead of, you know, saying we're going to do it this way.

And I think the crew chiefs really enjoy it.

Some are more, you know, want to go more AI focused and more technical, some are more old school and it works for everybody.

But how the leadership, it trickles down to the drivers, you know, and starts at the top.

It's a cliche, but it does.

It totally does.

And the drivers, you know, watching them all kind of laughing, joking around.

I think, you know, like Ty running dirt, Christopher Bell, Chase Briscoe can all kind of relate to that.

But it's, it is, it's a great, it's like a great camaraderie that we have.

And Denny is, he is, I mean, you're listening to him in the, you know, competition meetings where he's, he has a whole toolbox of, you know, just wealth and knowledge that you can't get,

especially nowadays is 25 minutes of practice.

He has 20 years of it.

And he, he's gone through, you know, highs and lows and made mistakes.

And, and so I think just listening to him, it's, he's, he helps our organization so much.

He's a great voice for us and provides a lot of wisdom.

And I think our partnership with 20 through 11 has been great because of that.

And, and obviously drivers, but Denny is, I mean, he's outstanding and really, you know, I'm like, you know, like Dale senior got 76 went like you, you're not even close.

Like how could you even, you know, hang it up now?

So we kind of tease him.

And who knows, you know, maybe if, if he wins a championship, he may be like, I'm done.

But I feel like he's, you know, going through a lot of tragedies and going through a lot of difficulties off season, especially your, your, your home, maybe, and your pieces at the track.

You know, that's those are your people.

That's where you want to be.

And so I don't know, we'll, we'll see what happens with him.

We would love to keep, you know, he reminds me of the Justin here, you know, in terms of Justin's just such a great ambassador for us and the kids that are coming through.

And, and all and that same wisdom and experience and all the things that they can provide.

And, you know, to the point to the track, you know, I think we saw that with Samantha and, and Brexton and her family when they came out to Charlotte.

I was just, I wanted to see them, but I was just shaken that they were able to do that.

And, but I understand it because it is this is home.

You know, this is weekend and week out.

Your family, we are a family sport, no matter if we're competing, no matter what it is.

You know, when we competed for the championship in 22.

You know, boy, did we want to win.

And when we woke up that next morning, it was like God wrote the story.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's what you lean into, you know, in times like this.

And, and so, yeah, that, that family environment for everybody.

And that's what I, that's what I wonder about Denny is, you know, can he not, he, he's not going to step away from the sport, but, you know, can he step away from driving?

That's a really hard thing to do.

Yeah.

You know, and he puts a ton of effort in throughout the week, though, and puts a lot in to Sim.

I mean, he's, he's not going to do it if he can't do it 110%.

Yeah.

So it is.

He's always been his MO.

Yes.

And he wants to leave on top where maybe he left a few wins on the, you know, on the table.

But he'd rather do that than, than it, you know, really people are like, okay, it's time.

Yeah.

So I can see and I respect that.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Well, Denny, Denny was going into kind of the charter conversation.

Denny was the ringleader there with 2311.

You know, we, we was back in 24.

Gosh, the years are crazy.

I know.

Thinking through how time flies.

But, you know, in 24, you guys were negotiating for, for really a couple years at that point,

you know, for the new charter agreement that was expiring.

You guys got hit with a deadline there in September of 24 to sign the charters.

Denny and, and front row obviously decided to withhold, which man, what a huge decision.

You know, I listened to some of your commentary about in your testimony and whatnot about,

you know, how you guys were feeling.

And I think the day that that information was given to you guys to sign, I think you

had to go to a ball game maybe with one of your sons and you guys were back and forth

on what is this going to look like and what do you do?

You know, talk just a little bit about that in terms of the employees.

I can't imagine being really hit with something like that.

That is so consequential to how you move your business forward that you've been doing for

30 years.

Well, it was, was really scary for us because again, there's no outside revenue.

There's no, no one's going to be like, look, we'll back you.

Staying there to hold you up.

To do that.

And, and, and I think for us just thinking, you know, you're flashing the legacy of your

family, what all that JD put into the sport, all that coy did, you know, walking into that

building every day.

And if you didn't have that charter financially, it just wouldn't make sense.

And even though we had a private investor, they're not writing a check for us.

So if we,

And also just explaining all this, I mean, goodness, you know,

Sponsors to your drivers.

You know, it was,

Just to ask them to take that risk alongside with you, you know, like that's a big deal.

It was hard.

I mean, I think I, I have so much respect for Lisa Kennedy.

She was probably one of the first people I talked to after losing coy cause she went through a similar

tragedy with her husband and Ben was at the same age as, as Ty at that time.

And I just had a, like a really close, you know, relationship with her early on.

I, I think the world of Jim, I mean, I think he's, he's just like, when you see him in person,

he's this gracious, kind, gentle, you know, person.

And so it was frustrating through the negotiations cause you're like, they're very reasonable how could,

you know, but they, they also have their own family history and their own family legacy that they,

they wanted to carry on.

Which is why I wrote the letter.

I mean, never knew.

I mean, I was like,

You didn't know you were going to make such a splash, did you?

I was like, I was a journalism major in college.

Finally, I, something I did in college.

What did you want them to understand from that letter?

I just wanted them to see how, you know, that we, we're with them.

We're a fan of the sport.

We want to grow the sport.

We want to, we want to carry on their family legacy through, through our organization,

through our drivers, through our employees.

We don't want to hurt it and help us just help, help it make sense that,

especially for us, that the charters could never be taken away, that they're permanent and,

and that we've earned that right.

In 35 years, we've poured millions into the sport.

We've, we've raised so many drivers and those drivers are now raising their

children into the sport.

We're all addicted to this thing that doesn't make, you know, it's,

it's something, it's a family history that you don't have that in,

you don't have that really in the NFL or the MLB or stick and ball sports.

You have it in, in motor sports.

And, and I think, you know, in NASCAR, such an all-American motor sport.

So people know, you know, the, the dynasty of the Earnhardt name.

I mean, the, the Elliott name.

I mean, they're just, so I wanted them to understand that,

how much, how much we cared about it and, you know,

just plead to their, their heart strings saying, you know, it doesn't make sense.

Rick Hendrick and Joe Gibbs should have packed up and been like,

I lost the greatest, the closest, you know, my children and why am I still in this?

What all, it's all for what?

What is this for?

Yeah.

And, and, but we're still here, you know, we're still here.

I, I came over, you know, from my business because it mattered that much

and it mattered for the employees that are staring at us going, what's going to happen?

So that night of, you know, signing the charter and we're, we're like,

none of this makes sense.

I shared it on the stand.

I was like, you know, the, it had grammatical errors, you know,

I mean, when I'm writing a real estate contract, if it was, I had your middle name wrong.

I wouldn't, I'd be like, no, let's fix it before we sign it.

So, and there was such a sense of urgency and you had spent two years plus drag.

I think Coy was part of the original negotiations.

Conversations, yeah.

Yeah.

And so that was upsetting and, and I, and defeating somewhat, you know, it was,

it really was.

And, and I, you know, Denny and, and their whole group and Bob Jenkins and Michael

Jordan, you know, they, they took a leap of faith.

They could, but they did, you know, they had the financial backing to do it,

but it was a huge leap, a leap of faith.

And, and it was because they love expensive, really expensive and scary,

but like Michael is a fan of the sport.

Denny is a fan of the sport.

They love it.

They, you know, Bob, he, he is, they, he's, it's just, it's amazing what they've done

and, and they were brave and, and it helped us.

And I think NASCAR wants to work, you know, with the teams more and, and we have that

security.

So it is, it gives you a sense of like, you take a deep breath, you know, you're

going to have, you have this value that you are continuing to build into.

And, and that's, you know, that's what you wanted.

You know, that's the thing that when always asked about, you know, charters and whether

or not junior motorsports is going cup racing is the thing I always could not get past,

you know, as a business person, you know, I couldn't get past the fact that you were

going to make this investment into a charter that you didn't know at a specific time,

a point in time, if it still had the value that, you know, I mean, it's not from an

investment standpoint, you, you, you get that, you know, values go up and down.

But, you know, you, you buy a charter for 20 million.

And then in seven years they go, oh, okay, we're not going to have charters anymore.

And you're like, well, okay, what is this?

What did I get for this?

Right.

So what did the permanent charters kind of mean for your family from a legacy standpoint

and kind of passing your team to the next generation?

Well, I think it gives us stability.

It gives us the ability to, when you market to sponsors, you know, I think that's really

important having just, just understanding that we have our place in history and it's

not going to be taken away from us.

You know, we helped, we helped, you know, we helped build the sport.

Joe definitely did and the boys and their legacy will carry on.

I think that's, that's really important.

We're, we're so fortunate, you know, to have four teams and to be, you know, grandfathered

in with four, along with Hendrick.

And, and it's hard, you know, people always are like, well, yeah, four teams.

And I'm like, it's, it's really hard.

Three teams would be a lot easier.

You know, it, it's extra sponsors to figure out is trying to find drivers.

But just like us, four teams makes the, you know, the overhead work, right?

Yes.

And then sometimes it's, yes, is it difficult to find, you know, that fourth car in terms

of sponsors and all of those things, but the overhead overall, it's the sweet spot.

Yes.

I mean, for us, it's the same way.

When we went to four cars, it was sort of a bridge in between some driver relationships

and things that we knew that were going to be happening.

But then year after year, it's like we want to be four cars.

We want to be four cars because going to three cars certainly would be easier in a lot of

ways, but then your whole model and your whole overhead model.

There's more scale.

Yeah.

There's, there's a lot to it.

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Joe, I'm certainly built a heck of an organization alongside with JD and Koi and their involvement.

You know, want to move to kind of your role in Joe Gibbs Racing after losing Koi.

You kind of surfaced, I think, somewhere around April 23, you know, is like maybe someone

that was going to be stepping up into the business.

What did that time period look like between losing Koi and realizing that this is where

you're being called to be, you know, in terms of leadership within the organization?

Well, I think for me, the most important thing was that I, the only person that's going to

take better care, no one will take better care of my family than myself.

And I saw that and I remember early on, you know, Ty asking me like, what's going to happen

to us?

Like what's going to happen?

It's Uncle JD, now it's dad.

And I was like, you know, we have an outstanding leadership group, but it's still not like

I could never just say, okay, yeah, go ahead and take it over.

It was so important that a family member and still your name.

It's still your name and reputation.

And for Joe, I mean, I feel, you know, he had his two boys and now he's got, you know, his

daughter-in-law, right?

And I get that and I respect that.

I mean, I think he's been so gracious and allowing me to be a part of it.

And I also needed to earn my way.

I mean, I wasn't just going to walk in the building and, you know, I needed to build,

I needed to earn respect of our employees and spend time with guys on the shop floor

and let them see that I'm authentic and that I care about it and that I love it and I'm

a race fan myself.

You know, I watch, I'll watch dirt racing, you know, on flow if it's on and it's a

Friday night and I'm, you know, just sitting there.

I love racing and so it's fun for me watching it.

But I think, yeah, I mean, that was, it was, when I stepped over, I just was like, what,

you know, I want to understand what's going on.

You're also become a majority owner overnight.

So I want to understand what is going on, what's being done, what's the future and

make, help be informed to help make decisions.

And it's also hard because you're walking into an organization and you're like, okay,

I'm the only one with the dress on in the room.

I remember going like, hey, maybe I'll sit in on the competition meetings and they're

like, oh, you know, it's a bunch of guys and sometimes they use bad words and I'm like,

well, sometimes I use bad words, you know?

I was like, if I just show up all of a sudden, it's going to be awkward.

So I might as well be there, be present and it was fine and really getting to understand

and know all the people and players and there's so many amazing people in that building.

And so it's over time slowly, you know, just getting to be a part of it.

Have you thought about whether you would have wanted to step up like that if Ty wasn't

involved in a driver?

I think that's a good...

I absolutely think that...

I mean, you don't know, but I'm just saying had that crossed your mind.

I mean, and that's a really good question because obviously the mother instinct of me

was like, I want to make sure that everything is organized and taken care of and that for

Ty, you're either...

If you get something that people feel like it's ahead of others, it's because you're

silver spoon and you're getting favored or it's the opposite and you don't get as much

and I feel like we've done a really good job trying to balance that and make sure it's fair

across the board.

I know our crew chiefs, they wouldn't be there if they thought otherwise.

But yeah, I mean, I wanted to be there.

It's my family name and it was like therapeutic for me.

You walk in and just the...

I was talking about the other day, I'm like, you know, people go to the beach and they

listen to ocean waves.

I'm like, I listened to our engine dyno and I'm like, am I just hearing there?

Like, no, the dyno is running.

I'm like, am I imagining it?

So in the smell of the building and the people's faces and it was...

It reminded me...

It was just...

It was a place that I could go and it was safe and it reminded me of Koi.

It was just the...

Of just walking into that building every single day and it was a place that I could kind of

forget about all the other worries and sadness because you walk in and one, it's men.

So they don't care how you feel.

So they're not going to be like, how are you...

They're not going to ask any of those questions.

They don't want to know.

So it was great.

You could just walk around and not have to be to share anything.

And it's a place that I just wanted to be.

It was closer to him.

And the other thing is I knew...

We were so aligned in so many areas.

So I knew what he wanted.

I knew what he's thought of for the future.

So now I can be his advocate and I can be his voice and kind of carry that on for him.

Yeah.

I completely respect that.

Obviously, you know, going through some of the things that we've been through and with

our dad and not being able to see what we felt like he wanted to come to fruition, you know,

in Dellenhorn Incorporated and things like that.

I'm super proud and inspired that you've stepped up in that way because you didn't have to.

I mean, you didn't have to for a lot of reasons.

But you had your own career.

You were a very accomplished realtor.

And I feel like...

Do you still dabble there?

Because I don't know if I'm seeing things or sometimes I see little posts or whatnot here and there.

Very close, like very close friends.

You have four kids.

You have four kids that you're still raising, Ty being the oldest.

And so you didn't have to do this.

And so I really admire you for that because you could have just simply said, you know what,

we're going a different direction.

This is the tidbit that I learned.

So prior to becoming a realtor and when you moved to Charlotte, and maybe I think you

owned these in Charlotte, but you were a baker.

Is that right?

So you came out of school and you were a baker and you got to bake cakes for Martha Stewart.

I want to hear about it.

Well, it's so funny.

I always loved baking growing up.

Like I remember in fourth grade when entertaining came out by Martha Stewart.

And for Christmas, it's all I wanted was her cookbook and it was about weddings.

And so I always loved baking.

I always loved art.

You know, after graduating college, you know, moved to Charlotte, worked selling payroll processing.

It was very exciting.

It was.

And started working for a caterer.

Best impressions, which is ironically is William Byron's uncle.

Oh, wow.

So and and at night, you know, I was like, gosh, I have, you know, you make no money.

You're just trying to make ends meet.

And he's like, you should learn how to bake.

Do wedding cakes.

You could do that as a side hustle.

So he let me use his kitchen at night.

So after I worked for him, I would bake cakes and and it sort of became, it just became,

you know, something I loved.

It's trial and error went to took different classes and ended up, I went to work at the,

for a bakery in Charlotte doing wedding cakes.

I worked at the peninsula club as their pastry chef.

Well, being a nanny trying to pay the bills and amazing.

And the morning of my rehearsal dinner in January 30th, 1999, I went to Sun Trust Bank.

I had my small business plan and got my first loan.

So when we got back from our honeymoon, I had bought rented a space that was like a vanilla shell.

So I had to, you know, hire the outfit, the whole thing.

And that's where my bakery started.

It was cake designs.

And it was, I mean, so many people in racing.

I did Andrea Nemechek's baby shower cake for John Hunter.

Oh my gosh.

I mean, it's just that so many of the sobotas cakes and I mean, I can't.

And it was such a, it was so much fun because it was like you're in a happy environment with people

or sad, you know, whatever the environment was.

I loved having like the moms come in and the daughter and there's a rift.

And so you could problem solve them through it.

And, um, but, and I had the opportunity.

Martha Stewart came.

It was right before she's actually indicted.

And, um, she came to speak.

It was the, um, art and bloom conference at the Mitt Museum.

And there was like 500 people.

So I did these fun cupcakes with these fondant flowers.

And I got to meet her and they were like, no picture.

She's not, you know, cause of all the press that was about to go down.

And I was like, Martha, I just, you know, um, I did the cupcakes.

Can you do one picture?

And she did a picture, an opportunity, right?

I have to get it.

Yeah.

And she was, I remember her being just like so confident and she was like so beautiful

and taller than I imagined.

And, um, and took the time, did a picture with me.

So I'm like all goofy and so excited.

But, um, I have that framed at home with the picture of the cupcake.

But it was, it was really, it was, it was so much, it was very rewarding.

It was fun.

I love that.

You just, um, you know, people's backgrounds are, um, this interesting and how you,

how you start and go and grow.

And, um, you know, our kids these days, one of the things that drives me crazy is

that, um, you know, there's this immediate gratification for everything.

Right.

And, and to hear the stories of, um, you know, coming out of school and,

and working hard to do something like that.

And then moving into your real estate business and then, you know,

here you are running and operating a race team.

Yeah.

Um, you talked a little bit about, um, uh, you know, coming into the shop and,

and being a female, uh, question that I've been asked all of my life, you know,

being a female in this sport, sometimes you're the only one in the room.

Um, you were probably the only one in the room when it came to the,

the race team discussions and stuff.

I would assume, right?

Yeah.

The only one in the room.

Um, what did you want to preserve about Joe Gibbs and the legacy and,

um, what has, has been there for 30 years and what do you see that you've kind

of want to make your own?

Or have you crossed that bridge, you know, in the last several years?

I mean, it, it, I don't know.

I mean, that's a really good question.

I feel like for us, what we want to preserve is, is the culture of Joe

Gibbs racing.

We want, I think people come there.

They love, they, they, they begin and end their career there.

I mean, we have so many lifers that have been there in it and they,

they are all passionate about our, you know, relentless pursuit of excellence,

wanting to be there to win and knowing that we're going to do whatever it takes

to give them the resources to do it.

Um, there's no marching orders at Joe Gibbs racing.

There's no, this team is going to win over this.

I mean, every single door number gets every, it's equal and we want to

provide them as much as we can.

And I think that's something that the, that's built the culture around it.

And, and so many of our, our people, and I'm sure you've gone through that,

you know, with JRM, but you know, we've walked through tough times with people

through amazing times.

Um, and we're there to support them no matter what, um, we have a great

culture committee that, you know, helps in crisis, um, and, and want to support

the family.

So I think for us, for Joe Gibbs racing, it's bigger.

It's not just, it's not the Gibbs family, you know, family comes in all different

shapes and sizes.

It's not blood.

I'm not blood.

So, um, and, and the, and the people there, that's, that's kind of what

matters the most.

And, and for me, I think a lot of our employees are like, what happens

when Joe's not here?

You know, he's, he has all these grandkids, they're young.

Um, and what I love, and I feel like Koi and JD helped build is this, this huge

organization that has so many different areas and, and they're able to find a

spot that they love to do.

Um, like Jackson is our, our front changer on the 54.

He was a quarterback.

He played at App State and he absolutely loves it.

You know, and the camaraderie Miller just came over.

He graduated at App State as a tight end and he's now trying to be, he's in our

devo group for, to be a Jackman.

Jason is on the social media team.

Ty raced.

And even though, you know, they don't want to sit in a board room meeting

because who really does, right?

Particularly with their age too, right?

Let them, let them, let them be, let them grow and figure it out out.

That's exactly right.

And, and my kids are younger coming up by daughters, just finished her junior year

college, you know, she's like, well, heck, I'm going to go to law school.

You guys are in so many lawsuits.

Like you need an attorney in the group.

So she's, she wants to go to law school and who knows where she'll go.

And, and then my younger two, you know, they, they love racing.

They love being a part of it.

So I, I, it'll be interesting to see, I'll probably be a little bit harder on them

coming into it.

Cause I'll be like, what, what's your value?

You know, go, go get some job work, go get some experience, intern, whatever,

and come back and bring us a skill set.

Yeah.

That is, you know, going to be beneficial to the organization.

It's funny that you brought that up because I've been in two situations over the last

year at two different speaking engagements where I feel like in our industry, like I

won't family as much as possible.

You said it to start the show, you know, your family, this is what you know, you know,

this is the Gibbs legacy, the reputation and all.

And I've been in two situations.

One with a speaker who is a home builder, she's a female home builder out of Raleigh

who they don't allow family to work in their business.

And then with another, I'm not going to say their name, but with another fast food restaurant

and they make you go outside of the company, get that work experience like you just spoke

of, and then, you know, you come in and you start at various levels and then work your

way up.

It's interesting because I just don't feel like we could do that in our sport.

Like I want the family in there, you know, I want them to make choices to be a part of

it, whether it's pit crewing, whether it's social media, whether it's in the boardroom,

you know, because you want that person to come and they don't need to fill your role

as the leader, but they need to fill your role as that voice for the company, right?

They need to be able to listen.

They need to be able to understand even if there's very competent group of leadership

people, you know, they need to kind of be in that circle, right?

Kind of what Ben's been going through, right?

Ben Kennedy.

So, yeah, I think it's so important.

I can't imagine telling my kids that you can't work in my business.

I think, you know, it's funny.

But we are going to be hard on them, right?

We're going to be hard on them.

I think, you know, it was Koi coach, Pop Warner football, and my, you know, the kids were,

I want to be the quarterback and he's like, you're not, you're on the line, you know,

and you're back, like, earning your spot.

And I see that for me with my children.

I want them to have a skill set they bring.

We had a great conversation with Mark Tyra of Kings Hawaiian.

They have, I mean, theirs is outstanding, their policy of family and they have a lot

of family involved, you know, going to get your, you know, undergrad, then you have to

get your masters.

And if someone else is up against you on a job, you know, you have to earn your, you're

not just going to get it because of your last name.

And I respect that.

I mean, there's so many, you know, Johnny Morris, there's so many different people in,

that have built these amazing organizations that they have a great history and policy

and you want family.

I mean, sometimes it's hard with family too, obviously.

And it's, it's just trying to find that right balance of and, and have your employees, you

know, the people there have to respect it and understand it and know they don't just

come in because of that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Which leads me to my kind of next conversation.

You know, you sit as an owner in the box on Sunday, but you watch your son out there

compete.

What does that balance look like, you know, for you?

It's, it's so, it's so difficult.

I, I think the first, you know, the first year it was, it was hard just, you know, just

trying to find the balance and, and, and coach will sit on the box and then, you know, people

will be like, well, you're, you know, they're, they're all down at the 54 and it's hard

because you're, you're invested in that.

And I feel like now I've, you know, kind of grown to have a healthy balance of it.

And so then that means every Sunday we go home and we're on the plane and we're just

disappointed.

Even though we just want to race, you know, because the other three didn't.

And, and you're like, gosh, that, you know, that just sucked.

And, you know, it's, it's.

That's the hardest thing for me.

You know, yesterday we had our bell ringing and beer toast.

And, you know, you get up there and Justin coming home as the winner of Pocono, but you

have, you know, in that case, five other teams that, you know, didn't have the success that

they wanted to have.

And, you know, you're sitting here talking to the 130 of them that make the win happen

and the 130 of them that the others, you know, didn't have the days they wanted.

That is so hard.

It's a, it's, it's a hard balance.

I think obviously.

It'd be even harder to be my son with your son.

And, and I mean, it's hard because I always am like, how would, how would Koi have handled

it?

And it would be different because a dad and a son, but when it's the mom and son, it's

even different.

But I feel like we've done a pretty good job.

I would say everyone inside of our building understands and sees it.

But yeah, no, I, I, I'm sure why you have like a list, your mom listing, you're like,

Oh, that guy's on my list.

Well, now it's like, I have it for like, I have it for Christopher and Chase and Denny

now, you know, and I'm like, Oh, that guy, you know, I'm like, done, you know, so you

feel this very, you know, having four kids, now you have four drivers and you feel very

protective of them all.

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I feel, you know, being a female leader here and, you know, my employees, we all, we all

kind of talk about this and laugh at times, but you know, I feel like I can come in because,

you know, you said earlier, okay, you can walk into the shop and the guys aren't going

to ask you about your day or your outfit or anything else because they don't care.

I feel like as a woman leading this group, I can do a lot of things that men wouldn't

do in terms of nurturing and leading and cheerleading and the fun stuff that gets them out of their

comfort zone.

You know, whether it's, you know, we have an Easter egg hunt and we play games and it's

fun to watch the guys get out there and get competitive, but have fun and laugh at the

same time.

Do you feel that way?

And do you see some change in that?

Have employees said anything about that?

No, I absolutely do.

And I think that they enjoy it when you go down there and you're able to talk with them.

I remember on Sunday walking up to Denny and he had his Minions driver suit on and he's

like, I know what you're doing.

He's like, you think my head's too big, so you put me in the Minions suit and we just

laughed because, you know, it was just kind of funny, but yeah, I think you can bring

that kind of more personal side and spend time with the guys, you know, when they're

talking about if they're going through a struggle, you know, one of our employees just lost his

wife and there's a lot that we can sit and talk about, talk about what the kids are going

through, what they, you know, are going through.

And it's not just a hug where I'm like, it sucks, you know, and they're like, it does.

And I think I'm able to give that to some of the employees and also enjoy and have fun

and have a different perspective of, you know, having a voice saying, hey, someone might

not want you to set up a meal, you know, train for those people, you know, they might not

want that.

Let's find out what they want.

It's fun what they need.

What they need.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I enjoy it.

I think there's a, there's certainly a perspective that we bring that, you know, makes our companies

different and unique.

And I love that.

Let's talk about Joe for a minute.

I don't know Joe super well, just been in a few conversations or what not here and there.

You know, he's been a coach, leader of Joe Gibbs, owner of Joe Gibbs.

But what's Joe the father-in-law like for, for you, can he just Joe the father-in-law?

He's probably, I mean, I have, you know, since going to races with Koi, you know, early on,

I never was the travel wife that went.

I would go on Sundays because I had my bakery, you know, and cakes to deliver on Saturday.

So I would go with him afterwards to races and got to spend a lot of time with him.

And, and he's, he's the greatest.

He's a peacemaker.

He, he, he definitely, he's a huge, he will outgrind, outwork anybody.

And if there's something he would take a shirt off and give it to anybody, he wants to help everyone.

He loves people that come up and talk to him.

I mean, you, you know, you think some people will be over it and he doesn't.

He wants to spend time with them, always has this track to pass out, you know, always one

last opportunity for him, which I admire so much his faith.

And he and Pat have been like a rock, a foundation for Melissa and I to know, you know,

we're the daughters-in-law.

We, you know, we, they don't have to, to care about us anymore.

And yet they still do.

And, and, and I really think just watching, you know, what, what means more to me as a mom is having

people love your children and watching them love them unconditionally and having that support,

I think is, we're just really unique, I think with that and, and watching them, how they care

for Melissa and with all my nephews.

It means, it means a lot.

And, but Joe is, he's the greatest, he's the greatest recruiter.

I mean, heaven forbid, if, if you might want to leave and he finds out we want that person,

I mean, they're not leaving.

So he will get them and talk to them.

I mean, there's so many, and he's a great storyteller.

He remembers every story about every person.

So it's, it's just, I admire him so much.

I think to, you know, to be such a talented coach and for as long as he was, those are

qualities that just exist, right?

Because that's, that's how that team environment, I imagine on the, the NFL side, you know, has to

be in order to, to pull everybody together and make it all work.

And Pat, my goodness, she's a gym.

Yes.

She is such a gym.

She is.

Every now and then I'm on her email list.

And she's just such a gym.

She, she just cares about so many different things and wants to make you aware of different

things that you can help support and be a part of and things like that.

She's just a, she's just a gym.

Um, so your kids have been watching you since November of 22 and, and what you guys have

gone through and, and how you've handled, um, your world since then.

What do you hope they're taken from all of this and that you're giving them?

I would say the greatest thing that I hope is for them to see that I don't have the strength

by myself that, that it is an absolute foundation in faith and trusting God through it.

I got to spend time with Samantha a day or so after losing Kyle and I told her, I, she's like,

it, is it going to get, you know, what's it going to be like?

And I'm like, it absolutely sucks.

It's awful.

And, and my heart broke so much, but I said, your kids are going to watch you and you're

going to find strength.

You're not going to have it on your own.

You have to have a relationship with the Lord.

You have to trust in him because he's going to sustain you no matter how upset you are

with him right now.

And it's okay because we were made to have emotions, but he's going to walk with you

through the darkest moments, which we're in right now and through the highest moments

and back to the dark moments.

And, and if, if you don't have that foundation, you're going to be lost.

You're going to be bitter.

You're going to be empty and, and no one, no one on earth can, you know, fulfill that.

And I think for my kids also understanding that, you know, our, our home isn't here.

You know, it, we're not meant to be here forever.

Our home is in heaven and knowing, you know, it means so much more to me.

Now I grew up a Christian family and knowing, you know, growing up understanding

grandma and grandpa in heaven.

But when you have someone, your beloved that is there, I wanted to understand every part.

What is he seeing?

What does he under, you know, what, what's going on?

And, and it counts so much more.

And I think my kids have seen, you know, like this is, this is,

this is a moment that we're here.

Work hard, be relentless in everything you do, show compassion to everyone.

But, but this isn't, this isn't forever.

So it counts what you're doing here now.

And, and I think that's what I want them to see.

I want them to see that, that I, you know, it's, it's funny.

People are like, it's okay, crying in front of your kids.

And I'm like, no, nobody wants your mom to cry in front of me.

They want to see strength.

And I remember those first few days of like waking up and putting makeup on.

And finally, my daughter's like, are you all right?

You know, cause she's, you know, weekends, I have no makeup.

My hair is a mess.

And so, but I wanted, you know, just to be able to show up and show them,

we're going to get through it.

And, and right now it's going to be hour by hour.

And then it's going to be day by day.

And then it's going to be week by week.

But, and, and remembering, remembering Koi, we tell funny stories all the time.

We want to be happy.

We don't want to be sad.

And, and we want to celebrate him and, and remember him.

So it's in, in everything.

I mean, he is kind of a, you know, once in a lifetime.

And so I think our kids, you know, so many times will be like, okay, what would dad do?

And, you know, Ty's like, dad's going to kill you.

You know, what, what are you thinking?

So I, I love seeing that in all of them.

Keeping that at the front and center.

That, you know, the, the faith is, is big.

I, you know, same thing growing up, went to church, didn't really my, my grandparents

and all that were somewhere already past and this, that and the other.

So I didn't have like that modeled, you know, I just, our parents sent us to church.

It was the thing to do.

We were in church every Sunday, even when they were on the road and all that.

And, and I'm kind of got, it didn't get away from my belief in God and everything,

but, but kind of got away from the practice of every day, right?

You go to college, you do this and that.

And, and honestly, my mother's death in 2019, it was just like,

I mean, it just came as an aurora.

Like you have to give this up.

Like, and to, to have that peace about it, because you're right.

You, you will be bitter.

You will be angry.

You will have the regrets.

You will, you know, ask question why and all those things.

And that was the, that was the time for me whenever that really resonated to just hand

it over and, you know, have that faith that, you know, I said earlier God,

God's wrote the story.

Yes.

We're living it.

And that, that belief helps you through worry.

It helps you through the unknowns and all of those things, you know, that we just,

you know, we can't, and it's hard.

It's hard for driven people to, you know, relinquish kind of that control.

So hard.

It is.

So hard.

So many times I'm like, God, it doesn't want my perspective or opinion.

And I'm like, if we did it this way, I feel like it would be, you know, and, and.

We joked last night, we were talking about some decisions we were working on for Wyatt

and my husband goes, um, he goes, I'm just, I've got to let go of this.

I've got to turn to the, to the God.

And he turned and he just made a little quip and he goes, God,

can you just please give me an answer about tonight?

That's exactly right.

Sometimes the timing doesn't work.

Oh, like, I don't think that's how it works.

It's, it's, it's, it's so true though.

You know, I mean, I think, um, with all the kids, with all my, you know, my, my boys,

he's, Kase has just finished his freshman year, went into the transfer portal.

We've been praying about the right place.

He just committed a college at Charleston, which I'm so excited to be close by, but it's,

it's a huge leap of faith and a, and a huge, you know, like there isn't Koi to be there to

walk us through. And, and even though they lost, you know, their earthly father,

they have a heavenly father that cares about them more than even I care about them.

And it's hard to wrap your head around that.

Yeah, absolutely.

But I think our, our family kind of verse was that even L used it was, you know,

going back to Sharia Shadrach, Meshach, and Bendigo and, and what they went through and,

and that we know no matter what, but if not, you know, it was the verse that God is with us,

whether, whether he answers it the way that we want to, whether the story comes out the way

we want. And we know with losing Koi, it absolutely wasn't the story wanted. It wasn't what we want,

but, but we knew that God was with us and, and, and is, and continues to carry through,

you know, some days, some days are, are tough, you know, and, and my kids are like, sometimes we

don't act like Christians and they're like, it's okay. We're not perfect, but, but, but we know

that that's our foundation and that's, that's the most important part.

Yeah. And the days they, they're, they're are tough times and you guys are going to experience more,

you know, because your kids are younger and you're going to, you know, the things I think about,

like in the loss of my dad and loss of your dad and loss of your husband are so completely different.

But the loss of your dad of just, you know, seeing my kids accomplish things and do things,

Dale's children, you know, what, what we built here and what that looks like, you know, because

we lost them so soon and your kids are going to have those, you know, that's the weddings, the

babies, the grandkids, all of those things that where it's going to pop up and you're,

you're going to say what would dad think, you know, but there's a sadness to it at the same

time, right? That, that, that your kids can't experience what Koi was like or what JD was

like and all of those things, but except through your memories and stories.

It is. And, and I think, you know, it's hard because like now the, the pictures, they don't

go on, they end. So when you're, you know, it's the next holiday and you want to repost a birthday

and I'm like, these are the same. There's the, the, the, you know, those memories with photos here

kind of end, um, but it is, it though that's the hardest thing. I think for me, my youngest is going

to college next year, jet. And so I'm going to become an empty nester of like, what does that look

like? Um, so I'm, I'm in the process of, uh, Gotland and I'm going to build a farm. So I come

home to my, my animals. I was like, I want to come. I was like, I want to tractor. I want to, I want

to say, and my kids are like, and I'm like, no, I want, I want to go home and be busy and have

hard work to do at home and stay busy. And I love animals and feel like we, as moms, we still need

things to care about, care for, not care about, but care for, you know, that makes it so.

And I don't want my kids to be like, imagining me sitting at home watching Netflix all night.

You know, I mean, like I need to have, be busy and, and want them to, to know they go on. We've,

we've raised them to launch them and I want them to go on and, and be successful and what

other are going to do and not to worry about me that I'll be okay. Um, and, and I think hopefully

they see that. That's awesome. Uh, well, let's switch gears just a bit, um, and, and kind of wrap

up. Um, NASCAR, we're in an incredible place this year, sold out crowds. Um, some of the

broadcast numbers are looking great, especially as we moved into the prom races here. Um, you know,

we've got the, the media deal out of the way. We've got the charter deal out of the way and

we're just looking forward. Um, what would, what does it look like for you, um, for new investment

in the sport, for new owners? You know, what would the, what would you tell them about the sport

right now and where we're at? Well, I think what's so unique, I mean, I think having such a close

community that most of the people all live in the same area. And so we're all, we all are working

towards the same point, you know, to grow the sport, to bring in new fans, watching, you know,

the O'Reilly series, these drivers coming up through the ranks, trying to get a younger

demographic, finding a different demographic, you know, with our, our pit crew members. Um,

I think that's, that's one thing that NASCAR is, they're, they're open-minded. Um, getting to see

Ben Kennedy at the track all the time or Steve OD. I mean, like, I think having those people there

and, and, and wanting really to hear the teams were, were the show, were the circus, were the

traveling circus. Um, and listening to us and, and wanting to, you know, kind of work together

to grow the sport, I think is really important. Um, I love seeing, I love seeing the fans. I love

watching, you know, when they sing the national anthem and hearing the fans chirping and yelling

and, you know, the flyovers, um, that, you know, and, and us owning who we are, we're, we're in

all America, you know, we, we started, you know, bootleg, you know, running from the, you know,

doing that. So I think that's, that's our roots. Being who we are and not trying to be something

that we're not for sure. Yes. Yes. We're, we're not, we're not other, we are, in our experiences

outstanding. It's, it's fun. They, you know, the guys, they're, they're tough drivers and,

and it's a, a cool sport. And I love watching, watching the fans engage, growing,

growing it with a younger demographic, watching college kids, even my kids age right now,

you know, and, and having all these young kids and they, they love the sport, they identify with the,

you know, like watching my kids getting to meet Brent Cruz and being like, this kid is my age,

you know, um, so that part I think is really exciting and fun. That is really cool. So,

you know, we've talked about, uh, being a baker, being a realtor, what has running the NASCAR team

taught you, um, that, that your previous experience has it? Well, so previous experience, I was an

independent contractor. It was up to me. I was with real estate, I never had an assistant. So I

was the, you know, the front of the house and the back of the house. I did the inspections. I went to

the closing table, you know, with baking, it was, you know, like ordering, doing, you know, working

through it and delivering the cakes. Um, and I made the decisions. I, and it was up to me. And if,

if we failed, it was because I failed. If a deal didn't close, it's because, you know, of those

circumstances. So I carried that weight where coming into Joe's racing and, and this community,

you're, now you're part of a team. So learning to become a team player was really, it's hard. And,

you know, I'm like, wait, we're having another meeting about this. Like, why don't we just make

a decision about the meeting? A meeting about the meeting. I'm like, we have to do that again.

So it was learning to be a good team player and taking, you know, being more collaborative and,

and listening to the group. And, and obviously, you know, you're surrounded by all these great

people that have good opinions and, and it doesn't all fall on your shoulders.

And I think that's probably been, you know, the, the biggest change for me.

Yeah. Delegation's always been tough for me. You know, I'm like, you want to teach,

mentor, you want to do all those things, especially as you're setting it up for the next leadership

group and so on and so forth. But man, delegating is like so hard for me. I'm like, man, I could

get this done so much quicker that I just get it done my way and, you know, I could just have it

completed. But yes, it doesn't work like that. All right. This has been just amazing. You know,

kind of getting some insight onto JGIV's racing, your culture, what things are really about,

how you've come in. What's some of the best business advice that you've been given that

you can turn around and maybe give to our listeners? I think the best business advice I've

been given is when coming into this organization, 450 people is, is form your own opinion. Don't

take the opinion of others. Take it with a grain of salt. So if, if someone's like that person's

like this, they operate like this, find out for yourself, go take time, spend time with that person

and get to know them and get to know all 450 of them. But, but don't take the opinion of others.

I think has been, and I've tried to kind of share that with my kids as they're, you know,

going through different circumstances. And I've learned it, you know, hands on at JGIV's racing

is just get to know that person, get to understand them. And then you can understand, you know,

form your own opinion. And everybody may have an agenda. So you have to kind of look at that,

you know, and, you know, overall and kind of take a bird's eye view at that and see where

they're coming from because you get that in every single department. And if they're the last person

that suggested something and you jump on that bandwagon, it may, you know, hurt a different

group. So I think being able to take all the different opinions, form your own and kind of

look at it from a bird's eye view is, is that's the biggest thing that I've learned.

Yeah, great advice. I know, you know, one of the things here, like when we're having

conflict or we want to change something or whatnot, you know, I always do exactly what you're

saying, I go talk to this person, you get this side of the story, you get this information,

you go talk to this person. And man, sometimes they hate it, but I bring us all together. And it's

like, if, if, you know, you really want to get to the root of something, let's all get in the

same room and talk to each other because we will say different things, you know, to different people

or this, that and the other. So let's work this out and hash this out and, and fix this. So I love

that advice. And it's, you know, it kind of leads us back to what I talked about with Ty and, and,

you know, an opinion that I had that I was able to make different and be different because of

talking to somebody face to face and seeing them in an environment that I hadn't seen them before

and things like that. So spot on. Well, Heather, this has been fun. I hope our listeners have

enjoyed it. I really appreciate your time and coming to, to speak with us and a big fan. I need

more, I need more ladies in dresses lining up beside me for sure. But and it's, you know, our sport

is fantastic. We wouldn't still be here sitting here talking about it if it wasn't. And there's a lot

of runway, a lot of opportunity and a lot of growth that we can pass on to the next generation of

fans and next generation of leadership and so on and so forth. So I really appreciate you being

here. Well, and thanks for having me and thanks for sharing people's story. I think that's important

and I appreciate all that you do. And I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us for Business and Motor

Sports in the Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meat and three bucks. More meal for

your money at Arby's. We have the meats. Check out dirty mode media. Check out dirty mode media.

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About this episode

Kelley Earnhardt Miller sits down with Joe Gibbs Racing's Heather Gibbs to discuss the emotional highs and lows of the motorsports industry. They dive deep into Ty Gibbs' emotional first Cup Series victory at Bristol, reflecting on the bittersweet nature of the win following the tragic loss of his father, Coy Gibbs. The two share unique perspectives on raising young drivers under the intense spotlight of family legacy, dealing with public criticism, and navigating the complex business side of NASCAR team ownership.

23XI Racing Bristol Motor Speedway Chris Gabehart Coy Gibbs Daytona International Speedway Denny Hamlin engine dyno Joe Gibbs Racing JR Motorsports late model

Original notes

When people hear the Gibbs name, most would think of NASCAR owner and Super Bowl champion Joe Gibbs. While Joe continues as the namesake of the motorsports powerhouse that is Joe Gibbs Racing, his daughter-in-law, Heather Gibbs, has stepped into a leadership role to help forge the future of the team.

From her early days as a baker to her success as a realtor, and now her role as a Co-Owner of Joe Gibbs Racing, Heather has a wealth of experience and perspective in the business world across real estate, racing, and even baking cakes! In this episode of Business of Motorsports with Kelley Earnhardt, Gibbs addresses the emotions of seeing her son Ty get his first Cup victory, the frustrations of the charter negotiations, the sadness of losing her husband Coy, and how the race team could look when Joe passes on the torch.

If you’re looking for business insight or just want to know more about Heather’s story, this is a fantastic interview.

Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia

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