Honda Sends a HUGE SHOCK to The AUTO Industry | Episode 910

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Dad, go ahead and before we turn to our number one story.

No, no, no, I was just, you know, I was.

Yeah, it's almost six years, damn it.

Pretty crazy.

Let's start here, Dad Honda sending a wake up call to the auto industry.

And we're also going to tie in with the broader recall

McGeddon, that is the year 2025.

And it's a is probing Honda for more than 1.4 million vehicles over engine failures.

Dad, what the heck is going on here at Honda?

I don't know.

But as a 74 year old man, I hate hearing the word probe.

I just I need to say that.

And when you use it as probing, that's even scarier.

There's like a probe going on right now for 1.4 million vehicles.

Which which, by the way, is a lot of vehicles that could have connecting rod

issues that, well, if if the issues come to fruition, I could just destroy

the engine completely.

I would say that's that's a real issue for for Honda, because,

you know, Honda, much like Toyota is known for their reliability

and realistically, the the strength of Honda has always been in engines

and in suspensions from Honda racing.

And this doesn't, in my opinion, this doesn't bode well for our dear friends at Honda.

It definitely doesn't, Dad.

And this is this comes on the heels of I think it was last year, Pops.

Yeah, in 2024, there were 1.4 million other Honda vehicles

that also had ultimately resulted in almost a quarter of a million of them

being recalled the year prior.

So there's all sorts of activity here with these brands that are typically

respected as like being, I don't know, kind of bulletproof, having their issues.

These vehicles that are in question right now, just so everyone knows,

twenty eighteen to twenty twenty model year Acura TLX is twenty sixteen

to twenty twenty Acura MDX is twenty sixteen to twenty twenty Honda pilots

twenty eighteen to twenty twenty Honda Odyssey's and twenty seventeen

to twenty nineteen Honda Ridgelines.

These are popular vehicles.

These are not, you know, one ops.

The the only one of the group that wasn't particularly popular is the TLX,

which is why the TLX is being discontinued.

But yeah, the the MDX is Acura's best seller.

The pilot is a big seller for for Honda, shows the Odyssey

and shows the Ridgeline.

So, you know, obviously, this is this is relating to slightly older

vehicles, the two thousand sixteen to two thousand twenty model years

and in many cases and I guess the hope would be that either they've

done a much better job with their engines since twenty twenty or we can

await a NHTSA probe for for Honda again in the future for for the

engines on the cars built from twenty twenty one on.

I think that's like a little bit of the question for me,

as we've seen questionable new vehicle reliability.

And this is obviously from a time period before the questionable new

vehicle reliability really post chip shortage and post pandemic is when

we think of vehicles not being produced as well, which leads me over here,

dad, I'm going to share it on the screen, the latest and greatest

NHTSA recalls by manufacturer Ford is up to an astounding one hundred

and four recalls so far this year.

I mean, Honda's on here as well.

Where are they?

They've got 14.

Yeah, that for a second, folks, the new vehicle

reliability is new vehicle for ability, something we talk a lot about

and new vehicle reliability is another thing that we talk about.

Ford with a hundred and four recalls so far this year, Honda with

14, but likely potentially is another one coming on the other side of this probe.

Dad, a hundred and four recalls.

What do you make of that?

Well, the the prior to this, the record for the number of recalls

in a given year was held by GM and it was 72.

We are I'm not good at math, but at least 32 recalls ahead of that.

And we ain't even in September yet.

OK, so we're at 104 recalls in less than three quarters of the year.

This this is crazy.

These are these are staggering numbers.

And I know that Ford will say, well, you know, we realize

that there's some issues and we're being proactive.

And that's why there's so many.

And, you know, because we want to take care of our customers.

That's great. That's great.

It's all crap. It's all BS. It's all corporate speak.

OK, you build vehicles that fail way too often and way more often than they should.

And you are forced as a manufacturer to bring them back and repair them

so that you're just not absolutely ripping your customers off.

It is this speaks volumes to the problem that Ford has had

for the for the longest time when it comes to quality control

and the quality of the vehicles that they build.

And, you know, I I I don't know how many vehicles

those 104 recalls cover.

But my guess it's more than the 1.4 million engines

that Honda is getting probed about.

Let's take a peek, dad. Let's take a peek.

I mean, this is what's kind of nice about what NHTSA provides here.

We can search by manufacturers who will choose Ford Motor Company.

All right. So now we've got all 104 and let's look here.

Let's go down below so we can we can sort this by when the report was received.

So now here are all the August ones.

I mean, 21,000 vehicles on a recent one.

This is for what does that say headlights?

Headlights may fail.

Parking lights impacting another 18,000 vehicles, 102 vehicles.

There's a what is this window?

Man, they don't make it easy here.

I'd have to actually click into the recall window automatic

reversal system malfunction. Another one for parking lights.

Here's dad.

We've got a recall of one vehicle for a blank instrument panel.

You think somebody might have caught that at the

at the dealership when they were doing the pre-delivery inspection?

Possibly. Here was another one.

Here's 103.

This is for the powertrain, the rear axle hub.

Bolt may break.

Let's go to this particular recall.

Let me jump on this really quickly.

Yeah, this is rear axle hub may break.

What is this impacting 2023 to 2025 Ford F-150s?

There you go.

And it was 103,000 of them, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah.

OK. Yeah.

That's that's pretty significant.

You know, it is.

I would I would just think that it should be incumbent upon

the manufacturers to try and and produce

the best quality vehicles that they can.

And I I know people get mad at me

because I I tend to not speak fondly or kindly afford.

But you you you can't.

You can't.

How can you tell me you're not serious about quality

without telling me you're not serious about quality?

And the way you can tell me that is by the number

of recalls you have year in and year out.

And and so it just it just becomes

to me to a degree nonsensical when we hear

Farley and others speak

platitudes about Ford and what Ford stands for

and what Ford's doing.

And, you know, everything that they're doing

doesn't necessarily align with what the quality should be.

Yeah.

And it's kind of sort of sad to see.

But yet they they have a very loyal following.

What do you make, though, dad, of what's going on at Honda?

So obviously, this is a probe for engines.

But those engines, again, are actually kind of old relative

to, for example, what we're just showing 103,000 Ford F-150s.

They were twenty twenty threes to twenty twenty fives.

The other issues seem to be a little bit more backdated

anywhere from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty.

Do you anticipate that we're going to see other automakers

kind of following in Ford's footsteps with other quality issues?

Because to me, they're kind of apples and oranges,

like Honda's got issues from the past, Ford's got issues in the moment.

Well, let me put it this way.

I would feel better about Ford's situation

if if it was recalls or probes for vehicles that were nine,

you know, five to nine years old as opposed to vehicles

that are one or two or three years old.

Yeah. You know, let's face it.

Every manufacturer is struggling engine wise

to produce engines, at least

ice engines, internal combustion engines that meet federal guidelines

for emissions and everything else.

And and unfortunately, the way that most manufacturers

have decided to do that is to go to three and four cylinder turbo engines.

And so that typically a turbo engine has more strain on it

than say a six cylinder or eight cylinder engine would.

And so I think most manufacturers are struggling to a degree

with the quality of their engines.

And I think historically we can see that since most have switched

like four cylinder turbo turbo engines and gone away with sixes and eightes.

So I would think that would, in my mind, lead me to believe

that we will see more engineering calls moving forward

for all these fuel, more fuel efficient, less emission

producing engines that all the manufacturers have tried to come out with.

Kind of where my head goes as well.

And then it's juxtaposed with the fact that cafe standards just got erased.

So now we're going to go back to using prior technology

that's more bulletproof.

I'm thinking about that V8 Cummins diesel engine I was in a couple of weeks ago.

That thing has no issues, never has seemingly never will.

But all the new tech that you're talking about.

OK, let's switch gears, Dad.

Let's turn our attention over to Audi.

They had some pretty big news last week that I think is indicative

of potential broader trends in the auto industry.

Audi hikes 2026 prices by up to forty one hundred dollars

in mid tariffs adds free maintenance.

There you go, folks.

Well, you know, I may I say something.

You know, I helped run an Audi dealership.

And I'm not sure that that that you're going to spend forty one

hundred dollars on maintenance the first three years.

I would I would bet dollars to doughnuts that you're going to spend forty one

hundred dollars in maintenance after the warranty runs out.

But yeah, that's yeah, we're going to charge you forty one hundred dollars more.

But don't worry about it.

We're going to do your first three oil changes for free.

Let's keep looking into this, Dad.

It's fascinating.

Forty one hundred is the high end of what Audi is doing.

Let's jump in here.

We've got the A3.

It's going to see its prices go up

nineteen hundred dollars starting MSRPs at forty one thousand three hundred

ninety five dollars. The A6 all road good looking vehicle going up twenty

hundred bucks to seventy four thousand three hundred ninety five.

The RS seven RIP to the RS seven being forty one hundred dollars more affordable.

It's now up to one thousand or excuse me, one hundred and thirty two thousand

nine hundred ninety five dollars eight going up by thirty one hundred bucks

to Q for each run by eight hundred bucks to Q seven by sixteen hundred

bucks, the Q eight by twelve hundred bucks and the E Tron GT by twenty two

hundred dollars. Now, what's interesting here, Dad, is we were actually interviewed.

You were interviewed.

You were actually featured in an NPR piece on Marketplace last week on Friday.

You're talking about how the model year changeover is slower this year and

also we're anticipating more price increases during this model year changeover.

So what do you make of here, Audi coming out and saying, hey,

the twenty twenty six vehicles are going to have a price increase.

Are you surprised by the amount of these price increases or not?

And do you anticipate seeing more manufacturers announce these price

increases and trying to justify, you know, hey, but now you're getting free

maintenance when really it's just in response to tariffs.

What's your take on this?

My take is that, you know, they don't want to use the tariff word because

they don't want to they don't want to piss anybody off.

So they don't want to use the tariff word.

So rather than use the tariff words, well, we're, you know,

hey, it's a twenty twenty six.

It's got the latest and greatest.

It's really got to enhance this or an enhanced that.

Plus, plus we're adding free maintenance.

So they're making it seem like they've added so much to the vehicles

that that's the root cause of the price increases.

Typically, the price increases from from one model year to the next

don't range from eight hundred dollars to forty one hundred dollars.

OK, that typically they're not that high.

So I think we're we're just trying to use different words to describe what's happening.

And do you think we're going to continue to see price increase

announcements like this?

I mean, obviously we saw it with Subaru on many of their vehicles.

Now Audi coming out.

Audi actually already earlier this year announced the Q five,

which is not covered here.

Q five price went up by as much as almost what was it over over four figures.

It was it was like around five thousand dollars.

Yeah.

Yes, in answer to your question, yes, I think we're going to see more

manufacturers with larger model year price increases

for the twenty twenty six model year than what we historically have seen.

And it all boils down to the fact

that the manufacturers can only afford to eat

so much of the added tariff costs that that they've encountered.

You know, Ford said it was billions of dollars.

GM said it's billions of dollars.

Toyota is saying it's like ten billion dollars.

We know that Mazda is costing them one hundred and fifty million dollars a month.

These these are profit driven businesses.

Can they can they operate on a lower profit margin than what they had in the past?

Yes, they're proving that they can.

They're eating as much of this as they as they can.

But at a certain point, they can't and they will not eat at all

to think otherwise is really kind of foolish.

So in my opinion, they're just going to couch the price increases in.

Well, it's the new model year and we've added certain enhancements.

And that's why the prices are going up as much as they are.

The real dilemma for all these manufacturers is how to how to do this

and still make affordable vehicles.

You know, because we know there's an affordability issue

and you can't keep raising prices and and and and take care of that affordability issue now.

Obviously, I hope to some degree is that the Fed will lower interest rates next month.

And so we'll see lower auto rates in the future.

So perhaps the lower interest rate will mitigate some of the price increase,

at least monthly payment wise for a lot of buyers.

There's a lot currently writing on exactly that on interest rates coming down.

And for some context here, folks, Toyota,

they announced that they were going to raise their prices on average

two hundred and seventy dollars across their lineup for the new model year.

Honda for the Civic increased the price by three hundred and forty five dollars.

And Nissan has said higher prices may come into play later this year.

So we are seeing again with Audi, for example, a significantly larger

and Subaru, too, I don't want to leave Subaru off.

Yeah. What was it that was the Subaru?

It was Subaru was was like seven hundred and fifty five

dollars to a little over two thousand dollars were the price increases across the board.

And that's that's that's a pretty significant price increase,

regardless of it, of, you know, it's a new refreshed model.

I get it. You know, I remember.

Back in the in the olden days, when I was with Acura

and they refreshed the TL and in that when they refreshed that in 1999,

they actually lowered the price by four or five thousand dollars

and they increased the level of standard equipment significantly.

So it is it is possible

when there aren't external pressures

to actually update and enhance a vehicle while lowering the price of it.

Just it's just not possible at the present time.

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Yeah, absolutely.

And again, anticipate that we're going to see more and more of that

as the model year switchover happens, which we should comment on that.

It is happening more slowly than it has in years past.

There's been a very much there very much has been a wait and see attitude

and approach to the model year switchover.

Typically, we would see more of the inventory in the market being 2026.

At this point, I think we had the data.

What was it from car gurus?

I think it's like 13 percent.

Yeah, yeah.

And we still have a ton of 2024s out there for many friends

like Mitsubishi Ram Jeep.

So there's a very, very, very different kind of go to market

strategy happening right now for the 2026 model year.

And I think as more time happens and these tariffs don't go away,

you will see more announcements like we saw from Audi saying,

hey, prices are going up or an announcement similar to Subaru prices

are going up and by a significant amount from Matthew earlier in the show.

Dan, appreciate seeing you here, Matthew.

As always, an Audi A6 all road is seventy five thousand dollars.

That was the starting MSRP F me almost high and money.

I mean, probably when you start adding options and things like that.

Yeah, we're competing with a Porsche.

I was talking to some friends over the weekend that yes, and they were talking

about, you know, they wanted to get a new car, but they didn't want to spend

more than like, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month.

They remember back in the day, if I was going to spend seven hundred

fifty a thousand dollars a month on a car, I'd want like a Porsche 911.

Like it's absurd when you go into the market to buy a car

and you haven't been, I don't know, in four or five years.

It's a totally different ballgame.

You know, I there there's always been as long as as long as I had been

in the car business, there has always been sticker shock.

I mean, people are just amazed at the price of things.

Yeah.

Sticker shock today is like you need one of those cardiac arrest things

to, you know, to attach to somebody's chest when they walk into a showroom

and they see what the price of vehicles are.

When we were at the Detroit auto show and that was a year and a half ago

or two years, two years ago, it'll be two years next month.

We were, we were, I mean, we're in the business and we were literally

flabbergasted at the price of vehicles that they had on display.

It is so, so somebody who hasn't been in the market since, I don't know,

2018, 2019, maybe even 2020.

When they get back in the market today, I'm telling you,

somebody's going to have to resuscitate them because it is just

staggering how pricey vehicles have gotten.

You know, when you showed the Audi numbers, the A3, it's their entry level

cars starts at 41 large.

Okay. For their entry level car.

Now, I, you know, I understand that that they consider themselves a luxury

brand akin to BMW and Mercedes-Benz,

except like they're the redheaded stepsister of those three.

And the A3, I mean, if you said it's a nice little car and they weren't 41 grand.

So it is, it's just staggering when you look at the prices today

and what people are going to face when they walk into a dealership.

And I think when we see an announcement like we saw from Audi,

it needs to be couched in this data from car hearers.

This is back from July, but we are only at to your point at 13% of the

model mix right now being 2026s.

Most 80% of inventory are 2025s and 5% are 2024s are older.

And you can see here dad, some brands in particular Honda, they have

the most inventory that are 2026s on dealer lots right now.

They're number one here with almost half of their inventory being 2026s.

And that leads me into a really interesting comment, which is,

I just posted this over on X that this is one of the deals that our

concierge team was able to recently secure for one of our customers.

They are taking advantage of our 20% off promotion.

And look at this dad, this is on a 2026 Honda passport.

We're talking about maybe overly inflated MSRPs yielding really big

dealer discounts. This is a seventy five hundred dollar dealer discount.

MSRP of fifty seven thousand nine hundred and seventy dollars

selling price of fifty thousand three hundred and sixty eight dollars

and fifty seven cents. Yes, Florida, they're adding a twelve hundred

dollar dock feedback and and and a four hundred dollar processing fee.

There is sixteen hundred dollars in make believe fees, ladies and gentlemen.

But that's not the point here, dad.

The point that I want to hammer home is that this is a brand new twenty

twenty six Honda passport that has an inflated price.

Fifty thousand dollars for a Honda SUV.

And again, Honda is the manufacturer that has the most number of inflated

price twenty twenty six vehicles on the road right now.

And it's yielding dealerships giving you don't want to call it a seventy

five hundred dollar discount because they add sixteen hundred dollars back.

A fifty four hundred dollar discount, which is a 10% off of MSRP discount

on a brand new vehicle.

That's that's like Stalantis type crap that we see, you know what I mean?

Like to me, this is uber fascinating for the dynamics of what's going on in the market.

Well, it is.

I mean that that that's a hefty discount and and that would be a discount

that if if somebody shopped it, say, in Georgia, they wouldn't be able to

get that same discount because the dealer in Georgia probably doesn't charge

sixteen hundred dollars in processing and dock fees.

Um, because those are just pure profit.

So you have to you really have to look at the size of a discount

and then and then compare it to the size of processing and dock fees.

Of course, that I didn't bring it up in service of that.

I brought it up in service.

Take a second, stick with me here.

I just wanted to say that as a warning to people out there

because you can get hung up on the size of the discount.

And when there's other factors involved, that's why I believe you and I always

remind people to get the out the door number with the breakdown of all the fees.

So that's what you want to shop against.

But yes, I understand what you're saying that that these overpriced

vehicles are yielding much larger discounts than they have in the past.

In order to be able to sell them.

But just between you and me, who the hell in their right minds

looking at a fifty eight thousand dollar Honda Passport?

I mean, again, that was a deal done by one of our concierge team members.

So one of our community members and customers to add one of the

five dollars dollar to the eight thousand dollar Honda Passport.

So we appreciate them.

But I hear you loud and clear.

And again, that's why I brought it up is like there's one manufacturer

who has flooded the market with the most twenty twenty six model year vehicles.

We know twenty twenty six model year vehicles are more expensive than

their predecessors because of tariffs, even if they might say otherwise.

And then what's ultimately happening is they're not selling.

And so you see dealers offering 10 percent off MSRP on a Honda, which is absurd.

Like a year ago, two years ago, two years ago, you're not getting 10

percent of MSRP on a Honda, maybe to get 10 percent off the Jeep, but not the Honda.

And again, why?

Because they are not selling at seventy thousand or sixty thousand dollar price points

four years ago, you would have you would have probably paid a ten thousand

dollar dealer market adjustment to have the privilege of being able to buy one

when there was a a a girth of fine Honda available vehicles.

Yeah, so there you go.

Times certainly are a change in math.

You appreciate the contribution again.

Thank you, sir.

I'm old enough to remember a seventy five thousand dollar portion nine

eleven and I'm not that old nine now.

Right. Again, price is just going crazy.

Missed pops at the Lake Tahoe open swim yesterday in the rain and thunder

had to be brisk lest I get blitzed.

There you go, dad.

Why weren't you swimming in Lake Tahoe yesterday?

And and and you can verify this.

One of my favorite places on the planet is Lake Tahoe.

You know, we used to go up there every summer.

I love it up there.

You know, I'm here at the at the Jersey.

Sure, I got the ocean.

I got the bay.

What what the hell do I have to slip all the way out the Lake Tahoe

so I can go swim in some ice cold water?

I I I don't think so.

But but you know, I if I live there, it'd be a different story.

Pops, let's answer science question.

What's a good discount off MSRP on a new twenty twenty six key of sport

to try and negotiate down the OTT price using your best practices

and data on car edge.

So here's what we're going to do, folks.

That's a friendly reminder that right now we're offering 20% off

for the end of our month insights, car edge insights

and our car buying services.

Check it out at caredge.com.

I'm going to click on shop new bear with me for a moment here.

I've got my zip code set to Scottsdale, Arizona,

so we're going to roll with that.

We're going to do Kia.

What was it that Kia Sportage?

I think so.

OK, I mean a second here, Sportage.

We don't need to look nationwide.

We can look within 50 miles of where I currently am.

Can we look at what others have paid through our research tax?

No, I'm going to do it this way.

Is that OK?

Yeah, no, absolutely.

There's no other ways to do it.

Yeah, it depends on the trim.

But I'm going to go ahead and just click on this first one here.

So a couple of things I'm looking at.

First thing I'm looking at is what was the dealer's invoice price?

Just a good data point for me.

We've got a target discount range.

This is the dealer discount that we're suggesting is anywhere

from 500 bucks to 1500 bucks.

And then to my dad's point, if I scroll down here,

I can see what other Car Edge customers have gotten.

So here's a used one that's super helpful.

We've got a new 2025 in Florida that got $1,500 off

through our concierge service.

Here was a 24 in Maryland that got $2,000 off.

Another 24, another 25 got $1,000 off.

Another 25 got $500 off.

So there's some good data here that you can use

to help inform your discount.

But I'm saying, yeah, anywhere between 500,

I don't think we got $33,000 off,

maybe a little fat finger going on there.

But I'd say anywhere between, where was it?

519 and 1446?

I'm feeling like that's a pretty good answer for cyan pops.

Yeah, shoot for around two grand.

All right, I'm good with shooting for two grand too.

It's a little higher than what we're saying,

but you've got to start somewhere

and maybe you'll work your way down.

Something like that.

You're not going to go in and go, hey, I'd like 500.

And then get yourself the two bread, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you got to do the same thing the dealers do.

And that is, you can't get what you don't ask for.

So the dealers always ask hi.

And you as the customer, you need to do the same thing.

You say, well, I've done some research.

I don't know, I'm thinking that the discount

should probably be somewhere between two and 2,500 hours.

How can we get there?

And then the dance starts.

And again, you can use all the services tools.

We got the AI, we have anything to talk about that today.

So check it out, cyan, and I'm certain

we'll be able to help you out.

Pops, let's call it a show for today.

Huge thanks to our community who keep supporting us.

Thank you to everyone who's taken advantage

of our promotion right now.

If we've helped you out in any way,

obviously we appreciate when you subscribe and you share.

We've got CoreGuy here keeping us on for a moment,

which we appreciate.

Pops, thank you, CoreGuy.

I bought my nephew a $700 manuals,

2006 Honda Civic in Toddham, how to drive it this week,

and when's the Zach learns to drive a stick video dropping?

You're here in DC next week, Pops,

or two weeks from now.

What are we doing?

Are we gonna make it happen?

Well, if you can figure out where we can get our hands

on a stick, a manual transmission car,

I'm willing, you know.

I wanna learn how to ski.

I wanna learn how to drive manual.

Well, we'll give it to just those two right now.

I wanna learn how to ski and drive manual.

So let's make it happen, Pops.

Let's go, let's go.

Wouldn't it be fun to learn how to drive a manual

while you're driving to the slopes to ski?

Yeah, no, I'll be in DC from the ninth

to I'm coming back on the 13th.

So, you know, Wednesday the 10th, Thursday the 11th,

Friday the 12th, you can line up a manual transmission.

I will film it along with you.

And yeah, we will let people live vicariously

through your struggles with the clutch and the gears.

It'll be fun.

Stay tuned, folks.

All right, Pops, let's do it all again tomorrow.

Absolutely, I'll be here.

All right, see you guys.

Thanks so much.

Thank you, love you, handsome.

Honda Sends a HUGE SHOCK to The AUTO Industry | Episode 910

Toyota Camry

Toyota Corolla

Toyota Crown

Toyota RAV4

Toyota Tundra

Toyota Highlander

Acura Tlx

Honda Pilots

Acura Mdx

Honda Odyssey

Honda Ridgeline

Ford Probe

Ford F150S

Honda Civic

Audi A6

Porsche 911

Honda Passport

Kia Sportage

About this episode

Original notes