How Important is Customer Service in the Automotive Industry? With Dan Licharson

What I don't accept in the automotive industry is how hard would it have been for all the dealerships that I worked for and even the independents, any place that had any kind of health benefits. Yeah, I would gladly have paid an extra $10 a month to have the kind of short-term disability coverage that I have now. And I don't feel guilty for taking the disability coverage that I have now because I have paid into it and it's there for a reason. And if I don't come back at 100%, what good am I? I want to come back and be the best I can for them because they're supporting me now when I need it.

To remind my listeners, Dan is a gentleman. I had on a few months ago that Dan left the industry and went to work for Goodyear tire factory. Local to me. And Dan and I have been friends for a few years now, talk the industry a lot and share a lot of things back and forth. And we've been in the same circles for a long time, even before we knew one another. And what I wanted to kind of touch on with Dan and have Dan kind of share the little bit of health stuff is you're in a very fortunate place to be where you are employee wise. Right. Employment because.

Yes, definitely they're taking very good care of you in terms of, I want to say some shops, some employers, we don't always have to say shops. If you were to come back after this, it'd be a lot of changes for you, right? Wouldn't it? You'd be thrown back maybe to the wolves in terms of, can you even turn and burn like you used to and without being able to lift right now, what is modified duty going to be for somebody like you if you did have to rush it back, right?

Yeah, well, I wouldn't be able to. And my personality is such that I'm the bull. I go in there, I'm the human forklift. I, yeah, I just push too hard. Yeah, I've always done that. And work has been fantastic. We have a couple of nurses and a doctor on staff and in a complete health unit, and they have called me on a regular basis to make sure that I'm okay. My managers have called to make sure that I'm okay.

HR has been in touch. I actually went in to visit my crew last week and said hi to everyone and that was great.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

And even better than all of that is our short term disability program covers my wage 100% while I'm off.

Yeah.

So I don't have to worry about my daily expenses.

Right.

I don't have to worry about my mortgage. I don't have to worry about my truck payment. I don't have to worry about anything. It's just concentrate on getting better and take that a day at a time. And I feel better and better every day. I can't wait to get back. I'm not the kind of guy that does very well sitting around.

You definitely aren't.

Yeah.

Now, so, hypothetically, what do you see for yourself? Kind of. And please don't the shop owners and whatnot in the industry that are listening to this think that I'm trying to say that we're doing things wrong, but, Dan, say you hadn't made the right to the factory job and you had to go through this, because we can see that probably it was going to be coming. Right. It was a family thing, and there's a history of it. And you were going to go through. How bad would it be for you right now, just to put it in perspective?

Well, I can't think of any automotive business that I ever worked in where I had this kind of short term coverage.

Yeah.

So I would be facing either getting as many lines of credit as I could and just burying myself in debt to keep my mortgage going. I don't know what I would have been able to do. And then what kind of automotive shop is going to say, okay, yeah, we'll see you in three months. Be great to have you back. We'll have an apprentice with you when you come back to do all your lifting for you. Yeah, it's just not going to happen.

No.

Like, in my own shop right now, we have a tech that's been off since the summer with a broken foot. And, I mean, it wasn't just like a little break. It was like complete reconstruction of his foot. It's still up in the air. How functional it's going to be when he's finally been cleared. So when you think about that, I think he broke it in August. He fell off a roof. We're, what, six months in now, and he's still not cleared to come back.

And he wanted to come back in the new year because he's sitting at home on long term disability and he's struggling. He came in just before Christmas time and kind of said hello, and I'd never met the gentleman and got to meet him. And you could tell that he's kind of like, he was a little stressed. He wants to come back even while he's still kind of hopping around on 1ft because it's piling up for him.

Right.

So I'm thankful that you've been blessed with this opportunity. Not blessed with the medical, but you know what I mean. You understand what I'm saying? You've been blessed with the employer that essentially this is all taken care of for you. They don't want you back until you're 100%. I think that's awesome. I think that's pretty friggin cool.

It's very reassuring to have them reach out on a fairly regular basis. I don't know. You think you're just a number sometimes in a plant with what, 700, 800 people, but you're not. It feels good to know that I made a difference and that my presence was appreciated.

Yeah.

That you're definitely missed.

Right.

You're for sure you're missed.

And not just because I'm another body to spin a wrench. Right. It's because of the skill sets that I have, you know?

Yeah.

I'm happy that you have this opportunity for yourself right now because, I mean, there's no better time to be taking care of yourself. And it really sets a good precedence, I think, for how they're treating you and how they're looking after you about what more can do, what more people can stand up and do. I'm not necessarily, and this doesn't mean, I'm not trying to say that everybody should get 100% pay when they're off. That's above my pay grade to understand the analytics of that. But reaching out to the employee when he or she is not there, just for little messages to say, how's it going? How do you feel? Miss you. That kind of stuff that goes so far. It goes far.

Can I go get your groceries for you? It's things like that.

Yeah.

It's crazy because it sounds funny. I had some 3d printing filament delivered and it was dropped off on my front step and I think there was eight rolls of filament, so less than 10 kg in a box for our american friends. What's that say? 25 pounds?

22.2 pounds.

Yeah.

I couldn't carry it in the house.

Yeah.

I had a neighbor come over and offered to carry it in for me, which was great. And then I felt foolish because.

I.

Walk around with 236 inch pipe wrench, swinging them around like they're 10. Here I am. Yeah. I can't lift a damn thing.

No. Thank God people are understanding, you know what I mean? It's the same. Like, I'm very fortunate. I've got shoulder issues. And lifting, for me, is hard. I mean, it's not that physically I can't lift. If I have to be in a precarious situation for more than about two minutes. Precarious being like arms above parallel.

I get in a lot of pain real quick. And that's just the byproduct of this job. And wrestling in high school, sports injuries and stuff like that, it just catches up. So I'm very fortunate that my boss understands that, yeah, I can do tires all day long, but I'm going to be hurting the next day. And if it's multiple days in a row, just doing them all day long, by the end of the week, I am not worth anything to you. Right? I'm very fortunate. I'm blessed that he appreciates that because he's a guy that he's a little guy. He's my age, he's already had a hip done from being in this business.

Right? So we forget sometimes how many mechanics do you know that have issues, right? Whether it's wrists, elbows, shoulders, knees, back, back injury. Like, what technician doesn't have a bad back by the time they're 40? Almost all of us do, just like you said. Because even if you're not, like you and I, upwards of 250, you're expected to just bullet. You're expected to get it lifted and get it in there and get it done, because I got two more waiting outside that need it.

Well, the sad thing is, when I was back working at the Chrysler dealership about 20 years ago now, I had complained to the shop foreman that I didn't think the job was safe. Yeah, we didn't have a hoist that would handle the vehicle that I had to pull a transmission out of. And he said, too bad, do it on the floor.

Yeah.

And I was off for the better part of three months then, because when I did get that giant transmission out of that one ton dually diesel dump truck, I was taking over to my bench, and the apprentice that was working with me dropped his end of the transmission without giving me any warning. And I don't know, I felt expendable.

Yeah.

Probably 2001, 2002, I saw a dodge 3500 dually with the Cummins in it on a two post. I saw it slide off the two post, and the only thing that caught it from completely hitting the ground and killing probably the tech underneath it, he ran. Thank God he heard it. He felt it. He ran out the front, and it was sliding to the back, and it completely demolished the box on that truck.

Right.

So that's a dually. Completely demolished it. I'm not sure. I don't remember what other damages. But he had said the same thing. I cannot put twenty five s and thirty five s on this hoist. And of course, their situation, they said, was, well, the guy next to you, he seems to do them no problem. When they told him you could probably do it on the floor, he said, I'm not doing it on the floor.

Sorry. So it happens. So thank God nobody got hurt but the shop. Never again then put that size of truck on that hoist. He didn't work there much longer after that. Anyway. He was fed up. But it was one of those things where you always just think, and sure, some guy can say, oh, well, if you'd have just put a safety stand at the back on a trailer hitch or something.

It could also tilt the other way and slide off the front versus sliding off the back. It's sketchy. And I mean, shops sell stuff some days that they're not even equipped to service after the fact. And they still sell it. You know what I mean?

We all acknowledge, and I acknowledge this fully. In my new profession, my new career. There are inherent dangers that we accept as part of the job and part of our compensation. Our pay scale is based on that danger. I accept that.

Yeah, for sure.

What I don't accept in the automotive industry is how hard would it have been for all the dealerships that I worked for. And even the independents. Any place that had any kind of health benefits. I would gladly have paid an extra $10 a month. To have the kind of short term disability coverage that I have now. And I don't feel guilty for taking the disability coverage that I have now. Because I have paid into it.

Yes.

And it's there for a reason. And if I don't come back at 100%, what good am I? Yeah, I want to come back and be the best I can for them. Because they're supporting me now when I need it.

Amen. Amen. And that's exactly it. And we're not whiners, we're not crybabies when we're discussing what can make the job safer. We're not. And yet, I've seen it in the groups. Guys talk about having to fix hoists. Or having to trying to lock out a hoist when it's unsafe.

And then putting it right back into being in use. I've seen it happen. It doesn't happen as much now, thank God, but I have witnessed it. And you kind of wonder how many times does a truck have to fall off a hoist? Why does it have to fall off in the first place for some people to just get it, that it should never happen? It can't happen. We've all seen everybody. If you're in this industry long enough, sometimes you do see things happen, and sometimes it just happens. You can't really point a finger at and say whose fault that is. And there's better ways.

But the truck thing was always like, that's in a non modified vehicle, you know what I mean? That says that that can lift that. All of a sudden, if that's got a dump box on the back, if it's got a service box on the back, that completely changes the weight distribution. Like, how many of us drive a pickup truck on and it might have a ton of COVID on and a tailgate up. We don't ever look at what's in the back of it, you know what I mean? And then you go and lift it and you hear the hoist make a different noise than it normally does, and you're like, I wonder what's in here? And you go back and you look at it and it might be just say it's a two wheel drive and it might have eight patio stones in the back. Well, that just completely changed how that's supposed to be lifted. You're going to go tell the customer, sorry, we can't do your oil change, because it's got the right thing to do, is say, yeah, that's what has to be done here, or it has to schedule back when we can drive it on a drive on. I worked in lots of shops that didn't have a drive on. It was post hoist only.

So instead of saying to your tech, oh, you guys are such a whiny, or, I've worked for people that would have went out and done it themselves and said, see, nothing to worry about there. Cool, man. You rolled the dice and you won on it. Fantastic.

Exactly. It's rolling the dice.

Yeah.

What I don't get is why a customer wouldn't say, oh, hey, if you got to put that thing up in the air, I got a bunch of weight in the back.

Because they don't even know. I think they think that every hoist out there can lift at least 20,000 pounds. And the reality is, if you ask half these people what they're driving around, what is the way? They wouldn't know, right? And they don't understand the Olympics. I think some of them honestly think we still lay on creepers and roll around underneath it like they used to do in the 60s, right? They don't know and I don't expect them to know. Who I put the responsibility on and the expectations on is the people that I work for that they provide what needs to be provided and it's implemented and used properly. And no offense, exceptions. If something happens to me, yeah, it sucks. And if it leaves you as a business owner in a rough spot because somebody got hurt under your watch financially, is in a rough spot, I don't feel all that sorry for you because I agree there unsafe stuff is normally.

Unsafe things are normally brought to people's attention and it's how you handle it after it's brought. Every, every shop has a health and safety community. I've seen some that were jokes. But anyway, enough of that kind of, uh. So while you've been off, you got yourself a new yourself. You came back to the dark side. You got yourself a Chrysler product.

Yeah, I did. So it was kind of funny the way that came about. Let's go back to COVID.

Yeah.

I was driving a 2017 GMC Sierra, which was a used vehicle that I bought. But when I made the transition from working in the automotive field to going to work for Goodyear, I knew that I wasn't going to have access to a shop anymore, access to wholesale pricing. I needed something more reliable than the old beaters that I kept driving. Fast forward a year after I had that first truck, my daughter was going to Ottawa. I thoroughly enjoyed working shift work. So when I had days off during the week, I would routinely fly up to Ottawa and take Shannon out to lunch. And we went to Cabela's and we're supposed to have some sale on and they had nothing. Everything was garbage.

And it was too early to go to lunch. So I walked across the street to the GM dealer and they had almost no trucks there, but of course we were looking just for something to I bought. I ended up buying a three liter diesel. Diesel at the time was peanuts. I think it was eighty nine cents a liter.

Yeah.

And I waited 17 weeks for the truck and I loved it. But I knew right from the get go I was not going to own that thing out of warranty.

I remember, sorry to interrupt. You messaged me and you told me what you bought and I'm like, are you crazy? Like, you bought one of those little duramaxes. Like, my God, do you know how the oil pump drive belt is in there? You're like, yeah, I know all that. That's good. I'm not going to keep it at a warranty. So carry on, go ahead, keep with your story.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the truck for roughly 50,000 miles. I think it was 71,800 km when I traded it and it towed my trailer to Florida. I averaged almost 16 miles to the gallon to Florida and back across the mountains through gale forest winds. You just couldn't ask for a better truck. And a week before my surgery, which was the end of January, I had a check engine light come on. And that's the first issue I'd had with the truck in what, two and a half years? Yeah, of course I still have scan tool and I have a launch that is totally current. And of course I scanned it and figured out fairly quickly I had a good idea what was going on. There was an issue with what I knew was going to be a powertrain warranty covered part.

So I called a local GM dealer in Kingston. Not really local to me because I'm about 40 minutes outside of Kingston.

Yeah.

But it's across the street from Costco and up the street from where my daughter lives. So I could book it in at a time where I could go hang out with my daughter and have a good, uh. So anyway, I called them, told them what was going on, told them that I had scanned it and I have a print out of the codes and I could email it to them, told them that I'm a 30 year veteran tech, I'm not the average guy off the street. I fully and completely understand that they have to diagnose it in order to get paid by GM Canada for the time and parts that they put into it.

Sure.

But I also know that there is still a supply chain issue.

Yeah.

And in the interest of making everything go smoothly, and I cannot be without a vehicle right now, it would be okay if I stopped in and they could quickly scan it, confirm what I already suspected, get the parts ordered, and then I will come back for my appointment, which was two weeks after my surgery.

Right.

They said no. So I showed up for my appointment. Actually the appointment was for 840. I showed up at 08:00 booked the truck in. Oh yeah. When I made the appointment, the service coordinator or service advisor, whoever it was, had told me that because my truck is out of warranty, which it's not.

Yeah.

I had to pre authorize 2 hours of diesel diagnosis.

2 hours of diesel diagnosis.

Yeah.

And if it didn't take that, they wouldn't charge me that yada, yada, yada.

Yeah.

Now I got to interject. Is this the first visit you had made to this dealer since buying the truck, because he didn't buy it from that dealer. You bought it in ottawa. But did you have any kind of rapport with this dealership before going in?

No. I think I had one complimentary oil change done there, and I had a check engine light come on early on, and it was simply something to do with a regen issue.

Yeah, software probably fixed that, right?

Yeah, it was just a software update. But other than that, there was no point in going back there because I'm 40 minutes away. Yeah, I took it someplace else for an oil change. Kept all my receipts, of course, because I want to maintain my warranty.

So they tell you it's 2 hours diesel diag. You go in, you sign it, you agree to it, right?

Yeah, I dropped the truck off, told them I am two weeks post surgery. I cannot be without a vehicle for long. This Wednesday and Thursday, I have cleared my schedule and made arrangements for another vehicle. If need be, I'm going to hang out with my kid and she can ferry me around. But I would like to be kept in the loop. So the service advisor, who was very green and nothing wrong with that. No, four months on the job, really nice guy, said, I will email you, gave him my email address. And he said, that way you'll have a direct line of communication with me and we'll keep you in the loop.

By 04:00 I hadn't heard anything. Was getting close to the point where I wanted to head home. I was getting pretty tired.

Yeah.

So I called and had to leave a message, and I didn't hear back within an hour. So I borrowed my daughter's car and I headed home for the night.

Yeah.

And here's where it gets interesting. 530. On my way home, the service advisor calls me and says that a technician couldn't find anything wrong with your truck. He scanned it, and there's no codes current, and you'll have to bring it back when the fault is present.

Right.

And I said to the advisor, I understand what you're saying, but I brought it in with a hard fault.

Yeah.

Light was on when you dropped it off. Right.

Light was on when I dropped it off. So if I were to scan it right then and there and clear the code, it would come right back. So I said, well, why didn't you have something to base some diagnosis on? And he said, well, the technician didn't make any notes. I don't know what to tell you. I said, fine, I'll come in in the morning. So I showed back up and they had a bill for me, and I was kind of thinking, why is there a bill? Yeah, I brought it in for diagnosis. You didn't diagnose anything.

That's right.

And with no check engine light on and no records, all they had was my word and a printout that I provided saying that there was this issue.

Yeah.

So I was a bit bent out of shape, but I agreed to pay for a half hour's labor because that's how long the tech had a punch on the truck.

Right.

And with the understanding that when the check engine light came back on, which I knew it would sure that we would readdress whether or not I should be paying any diagnosis time at that point, depending on what the fault was.

Yeah.

And so to back up a little bit, you knew what the fault was. Can you kind of let us fill us in on what it was? Because you told me, and I'm like, well, I don't work on those things every day, but it seems pretty straightforward.

Yes.

It was something to do with. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. I can't remember exactly what the description was, but it was a low temperature coolant loop issue, which, with some really simple research for a guy that's been out of the trade for five years, boiled down to a pattern failure auxiliary coolant pump.

An electronic water pump that pushes.

Yeah.

With that aluminum three liter diesel. It has adaptive cooling. Right. So it gets up to temperature nice and quick and makes all your pretty boys driving trucks nice and toasty warm in the winter. So, anyway, I was a little bit sort of bent out of shape because they were already talking to me and not forcing it down my throat, but talking to me about what services were due.

Yeah.

And my attitude towards that was, hey, I completely agree, but let's address the issue at hand before I start throwing money at other stuff right now.

Right.

That's fair.

Yeah.

I'm not saying I wasn't going to do it. Maybe I would do it myself. Maybe it wouldn't be done there. But in the interest of keeping my warranty, because I bought an extended warranty with it, in the interest of keeping my warranty, I wanted to make sure that everything was done. Also, I like to have my vehicles in good shape.

Yeah.

I sort of started thinking, the truck is two and a half years old. I probably have another year of warranty before I need to consider getting out of this thing and getting into something new. So I went to see what it was worth in trade value and what a new one was worth. Because I really like the truck.

Yeah.

I was offered, I think it was $32,000 on trade for a truck that stickered at 68 when I bought it two years previously, and a new one not fully specked out the way I would want. It was 90,000.

For our american friends listening, that's 90,000, which is not the highest sticker we've seen up here. I think somebody talked about some of the brand new, like Ford 250. King ranches and stuff are upwards of 100K, which is to me, is just absolutely ridiculous. You're going to spend six figures on a pickup truck that most people 99% don't use as a pickup truck. But I digress. That's not my point. It is what it is. It's people want to buy it and that's the sticker.

You took a $32,000, a little more than $32,000 depreciation value, which you're fine with. You understand that, right? You're just thinking like this little Duramax is not necessarily maybe something that I want to be on the hook for when the warranties expired, for the repairs. Because of what it is. It's an expensive vehicle to service and repair after the fact.

It is what it is, right? In my daily use of the truck, it would quite often return close to 30 miles to the gallon for our us friends. And it was comfortable to drive. But do I really need to be driving around in a crew cab truck by myself? Most of the time? I needed the truck when I was going through. I bought a house a year ago, did a ton of renovation. So I was always hauling lumber or cement or something. After all that was said and done, do I really need a pickup anymore?

Yeah.

No, but I like pickups. And I have a 19 foot camper that I haul around all summer long. Actually almost all year long. So I needed something that would tow it anyway. Yeah. So back to the truck. After finding out what kind of values there were, I was not interested in trading it in. But I wanted to take a look at the Dodge dealer because I guess I should go back about a year.

I went through a pretty messy separation, and it was looking like I was going to be stuck in a house that I probably couldn't afford. I wanted to try to downsize a vehicle, but of course I still needed something that would tow. I wanted the security of all wheel drive. In my mind, the only thing that fit the bill was a Durango. Specifically a Durango Rt. Because if I'm going to make the change. I want something that I'm still going to enjoy driving.

Yeah.

Anyway, the local dodge dealer offered me really good value on my trade then. So just for interest sakes, I stopped in to see what they had and to see what they were to offer me. And they offered me what I think was an incredible deal. They offered me 13,000 more on my trade value than the GM dealer did. And working for the company that I work for, we have a preferred customer agreement with a bunch of manufacturers.

Yeah.

So if you want to call it employee pricing, if you want to call it a discount, whatever you want to call it, there was also another 16,000 od dollars in incentives and discounts.

So substantial savings for yourself.

Substantial, yeah. And of course, you know what Chrysler service contracts and extended warranties are like. They're actually really good.

Very good.

And now they're including maintenance packages. So if you don't end up using your warranty, you aren't feeling like you're flushing $3,500 down the toilet.

That's right.

Yeah.

They've kind of wrapped it into one, which I always think is how it should have been right from the get go.

So then my thoughts were, okay, I can get into a new vehicle with full warranty for five years, 100,000, including oil changes and rotations. And at any time before 100,000, if I think I'm going to keep this vehicle, I can extend that coverage to 240,000 for not a lot of cost.

Yeah.

And then I'm in a vehicle that has all the amenities that I want, all the things that I was missing from the truck that I did have. Things like adaptive cruise control, which sounds.

Trivial, but it's nice to have.

If you spend enough time driving on our 401 highway, there's enough morons out there that don't know how to keep a steady pace. That comes in handy. So I was tempted, but I didn't want to pull the trigger and I wanted to think about it overnight. But I put a deposit down on it to hold it. And yeah, they took a look at my trade and everything was good. They did a full inspection on my trade. They were ready to sign off on it, I was ready to sign off on the deal and I hopped in the truck and I left. Said, I'll call the next morning and make my decision.

Sorry. Tell you what my decision is. And sure enough, I left the dodge dealership and the check engine light came back on.

Yeah, in your Chevy, it didn't go.

8 km since I left GM store.

Yeah. So for perspective of my listeners. We're literally talking a dealer that's like four stoplights down the road. I mean, it's literally like 5 miles down the street. It's about a five minute drive. And you're from the Chevrolet dealer to the Ford dealer. So anyway, so of course the light comes back on for you because, know, not diagnosed properly and not fixed, you turn around.

I drove straight back to the GM dealer. I drove straight into the service drive thru, and I stood there was. I didn't see the advisor that had helped me.

Yeah.

But there was two other advisors and someone else hanging out with them, and they would glance up and look at me and quickly advert their gaze so they weren't making eye contact. I don't know whether it was a warranty administrator or the service manager sitting behind a window who would glance out and quickly turn away. And of course, I'm stewing now.

Yeah.

I'm not letting myself get upset.

Yeah. When he says he pulled in, he didn't drive through the door, which would have been my suggestion. Right. He waited for the. They have bay doors on automatic that open.

I waited for the automatic door to open.

That's right. He didn't drive through. And I pulled in, calmly got out of the truck. And you stood next to the truck.

I hopped out and I stood at the service counter.

Yeah.

Which had no man at it. I shouldn't say it was unmanned. It had no person standing at the service kiosk, which is not entirely uncommon for that particular dealership. Every time I've taken something over there, I don't know if they're out smoking or getting in trouble or what, but they're not there anyway.

But also, it's early February, right?

It's a busy time of year, and.

You know what the trade is like in early February. They weren't busy.

Yeah.

So finally a tech comes out carrying a laptop and asks me for my keys. And he was really nice, really nice young man. He said, excuse me, sir, could I see your keys? I'm not the technician that worked on your vehicle, but they've asked me to come out and scan it for you. So obviously they knew who I was.

Yes, they knew why you were there.

And why I was there. And he went ahead and did his thing. When he was done scanning it, he came out and he said, well, this is the code that I've pulled up. And it was exactly what I had said it was. And he started to try to explain it to me, and I didn't really interrupt him, but I said, look, you probably don't know, but I was a tech for 30 years, and I told him all this when I brought it in, and I brought it in with a hard fault. So I don't know why it wasn't diagnosed yesterday, but here we are today. Now, what I need from you is to go to the parts counter and make sure that you can get this in good time, because I can't be without a vehicle. And he said, okay, yeah, I'll do that.

And then the service advisor that I was dealing with came out, and he was, I don't know, not apologetic, but he seemed kind of sympathetic.

Yeah.

And they determined that, yes, it is a powertrain warranty covered part, but there are none in stock.

Sure.

And no idea when they would have anything available.

Yeah.

And so if I can quickly interject, because you and I both have had more than one customer in our bay at some point, one time or another say to you, well, I'm a tech like you, or I was a tech for 20 years or whatever. Right. Sometimes that can be like, I immediately I hear that and I roll my eyes. But you're not coming to them. I want to say, with probably the same kind of attitude or distrust, or you're coming with a lot more ammunition and knowledge than I would interject to say that most of the people that you and I have dealt with in the past would have brought.

I was trying to go in there to make their job easier.

Right.

Yeah.

You've got a printout, you have a code. You've done your kind of Google quick check that says, it's probably this. Because, let's be real. I'm not saying Google is what everybody should run to, but Google, the information gets there because people bother to fill out the sentence that says, hey, I had the same code on my same truck, and this part they installed, and it fixed it. That's how Google works. So you went into there with them, respectful, equipped with knowledge, understanding of the industry and what it is, and they completely, like I said to you, I said they completely dropped the ball.

Well, and I have to agree with you there. They dropped the ball because I also went in and I made a point of saying, I know that you have to diagnose this. You can't take my word for it. You have to follow your protocol to make sure that you get paid. And of course, my daughter, who was with me when I'd gone to dodge, she sticks her head in and comes into the service drive through and stands next to me, and I'm six foot, 300 pounds. She's five foot three.

Redhead, tiny little thing, fire and spite.

And the service advisor is starting to kind of try to joke with her. Oh, are you here to back him up? And Shannon didn't even skip a beat. She looked right at the guy with a straight face and said, no, actually, I'm here to protect you from.

Yep.

And then he looked at me all worried, and I said, hey, look, I'm not getting upset. I'm two weeks post surgery. This isn't worth the stress. I just need this thing fixed, and I have to have a vehicle. The technician said that when this pump goes offline, it takes down the lin bus and it can burn out the ECU, so we really recommend not driving it.

Yeah.

Hey, I understand.

Cool.

How about a loaner vehicle?

Yeah.

Oh, we don't have any.

Okay.

How about calling enterprise or whoever you do with for rental on GM's dime?

Yeah.

Oh, we don't do that. Okay, well, I'm guessing I'm going to drive it and burn out the.

Sure.

Yeah.

Well, you know, if you cause any more damage, it might not be covered under warranty. All right, well, that just reaffirms my decision. I'm trading it. So I need documentation that says that the part is covered under powertrain and that it is ordered for this truck with this VIN number so that when I trade it in, I can trade it in in good faith.

Yes.

And I also need a refund on the diagnosis that I have paid for.

Right.

Oh, well, we'll have to see if we can get you a credit or something. No, you won't. You're going to get me a refund, and I'm not leaving without it.

Yeah, because at this point, what good is. Under no circumstance, a credit is no good. You don't want to go back there.

Yeah, but under no circumstances does a retail customer pay for warranty diagnosis ever. I spent enough years in the automotive trade and enough years at dealerships to know how it works.

Yeah, what they're trying to do is obviously, they're doing way more warranty than they probably want to in relative relation to the amount of retail work that they want to do. And that dealer has been famous for that forever.

Right.

They drop the ball too often on looking after the customer after it's sold. It's like any other dealer in our area, Dan. They got by so long on sales, their service departments never really were what they could have been or should have been. And I'm not trying to rip them. Know, I worked at some of them, I come from it, I know what it's about. It's never a perfect. Every customer would want it to always be free. Warranty would never run out and they could just love it and brag about it and then go buy another one.

That's what they always would love. And that's not reality. And I'm not trying to say that it should be, but that dealer has a reputation. They earned it. It is what it is. A credit to you for them is no good. And that's what's so stupid about that advisor is because he's talking to you about maintenance. That needs to be done on the truck, which I'm all for.

I'm not against him, I'm not faulting him for doing that. That's his darn job.

Neither am I.

Right? But the idea, then it's like, wake up, guys. You just screwed the pooch on this diag thing. You charged me for something that I shouldn't have been charged for, but I willingly to keep the process going. I paid a little bit. That's cool. And then you tell me that I'm going to get a credit. Now after you've screwed the dog on this work, do you think the credit is good? To me it's zero value. And that's why he'll do it.

Because here's $100 credit, here's a $50 credit. Whatever it is, if you never cash it in, it don't cost them nothing.

Right.

And they know that that's what's going to happen.

You know what the worst part of the entire situation was, Jeff? The other long term service advisors that stood there.

Sure.

And watched this poor guy that's been doing this job for four months just try to figure stuff out. And I said to him multiple times, this is not your fault. I'm not upset with you. You didn't break my truck.

That's right.

But we need to get this process going and those other idiots in the background. And I'm going to go out, not on a limb, I'm going to stand up proud and say they're idiots for watching this poor guy that's part of their team flounder and try to get through this situation.

But it's like my good friend Chris Craig and Joshua Taylor, both two guys that know the advisor role better than most. I'll say that they talk all the time about leadership, right. And setting an example, but mostly leadership. And I will say that that dealer has. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody in a leadership role there that has enough time in to really know how it is. You know what I mean? Because the turnover in that place is terrible. Now. I haven't had to deal with them a ton in service.

I've had to deal with them in parts. We don't even call them for parts. We'll call in Ganon Aquay, we'll call Napanee. Because it is a cluster of trying to get somebody to answer your call or know what the frig they're talking about. When you say, hey, I need this part. It's to the point where. And I'm not knocking good. It's.

It's the technology there. We look up the part number and say, this is the last known part number that I have for this GM part. That's what I'm trying to find. How much and when can I get it. And they still can't get that handled in a timely manner. You can't. You got to ring the phone again and go, hey, or send them ten emails. It's a situation in that place, I think, where it's terribly understaffed with the amount that it is.

There is no processes and procedures in place to keep the flow going properly. I want to say that the owner, we all know who he is, he's got a reputation. It's probably not in the building a whole lot. If he is, he's maybe not leading his team. And it's a sad state. It really is.

Now, since all this has happened, I've talked to a couple of other friends in the trade that are still in the trade. And I have heard, without mentioning any specifics, that somebody has been hired to come in there and clean house and turn things around 100%. And if he can do it, man, if there's any place that needs it, I think it's that place.

Is this person somebody we know, Dan, like you and I know the person.

I was talking to is someone we know.

Right.

But I don't particularly know the guy that was hired to turn it around.

Yeah.

Because maybe off podcast we'll discuss it a bit.

Know, and that would be great. But I have to think that it's the end of the time, at the end of the day, that's probably already been tried once, right? Yeah. In that store's history. I mean, you and I have worked in stores where you went and bought that new dodge. That's the repeating goal there is. Every time they get a new SM service manager, he's supposed to come in and turn it around. Why does it not turn around, he's not allowed, or she's not allowed to turn it around.

He's micromanaged to the point where he can't do anything.

Yeah.

And I want to say, this is not just us ripping on dealers. It happens in shops. It doesn't have to be a dealership thing where several factions drop the ball and then there is not a clear cut process, there is not a clear cut leader. My heart breaks for that young person that's there four months and is sitting there floundering. How do I deal with this disgruntled customer? And people are standing around watching them. The reality is they probably are all out for themselves, not out as a team. Right. I'm not going to get involved in that because there's no money on it.

That's exactly probably what they're thinking. And why do I know that? Because I've witnessed it. But I also worked with some guys that it did not matter if they were gone in the afternoon. They had an appointment and their customer came in. They didn't immediately just stand there and look at the customer that would have never flown. They walk over, they introduce themselves and say, hey, excuse me, James is gone for the afternoon. My name's Mike, how can I help you? They. And they do their job and they don't sit there and look at the ticket and go, well, it's in his name and I ain't making any commission on it, so f that guy.

Right. They step up and do what's supposed to be done.

Yeah. I don't know if they were trying to.

Initiate him.

Yeah. I don't know what they were doing, but it's either like trial by fire, but I wasn't trying to light a fire under the guy. I genuinely felt bad for him.

Yeah.

And it's not like the place was flooded with other customers and I wasn't being loud and boisterous. You know me and you know that I can be.

Oh yeah.

And I usually only do that when it's justified. And in this case it would have been, but I still didn't do it. I don't want to work myself up.

Right. I had a situation with my mother's equinox, where she went in, was under powertrain warranty. Like all the equinoxes, it has a timing fault for a solenoid, right? So she goes in the first time, it's got whatever, 70,000 km out of it, out of the three year 60, but it sells powertrain. That solenoid is covered under powertrain. So they try to give her an estimate for diag. And I literally showed her on the car where the part is, how long it takes to do the diag. It's supposed to be twelve ohms. It's got 26 ohms.

That's all the check that the guy did. Here's the thing. And I said, you don't pay for that diag. It's covered under warranty. It's part of the labor op that when they submit it, it's done, it gets paid, the part gets changed.

Cool.

So she drives another 8000 km in one year. She goes back for another oil change. As soon as she drives it home again, there comes this timing solenoid fault for the other solenoid because they only changed the one. I get it. It's under warranty. You can't do two and you're supposed to do one. No problems. I didn't have a problem with that.

But this time it's the same thing. They tried again.

You need to pay.

For diag for this. And I'm like, she's like, I didn't have to pay last time. And I'm like, no, and you shouldn't have to pay this time. Well, this time when she calls them up and says, I don't think I should pay, they got really belligerent. And I said to her, I said, so what are they trying to. And she's like, well, they want $80. I said, that's not right. So she called back, talked to them, and they charge her like 15 minutes diet $40 or something like that.

And she's like, what do I do here? And I'm like, just pay the damn $40 to get your car back. But she now will never take that car back to them for anything. Because thanks to me and other people in the industry, you're not supposed to pay for Diag on a part that they are responsible for. Now, if you mess up the car, you modify it in some way. Yeah, you're going to pay diag, and you should. But a simple thing like a solenoid or like your water pump, like, as we talk about, I wish they'd stopped charging for that nonsense because it really is. There's a labor op to do it. They just do it because already their numbers suck and they're trying to make them less suck.

The reality is, the warranty is in place in this case. Both these scenarios. We're talking powertrain warranty, and that's beyond the dealership's control. That's a corporate thing, right?

That's right.

So how hard is it to just do the job right?

Yeah, it's not that hard. And it comes down to you end.

Up with happy customers and a happy customer is going to want to come back. They will be more apt to open their wallet and spend retail dollars to have retail services done.

Buy another car from them.

Exactly. Yeah. I'm not saying that because I got rid of my GMC and I got into a dodge that I will never go back to a GMC because that's my truck brand of preference. It was like when I was working for Toyota and I was looking at Sierras, our general manager walked through and heard me talking to the other know that I had driven a bunch of Sierras on the weekend and he was like, well, what's wrong with the Toyota? Absolutely nothing's wrong with the, you know, Toyota just doesn't make a Sierra.

Right.

Yeah.

And I don't want to sit in a truck that feels like I'm in a. Anyway, it's not hard to do the job right and keep your customer happy. And not every dealership is perfect. The Dodge dealer wasn't perfect.

No.

My delivery went swimmingly. Well, good. It was clean. It wasn't detailed, but it was clean. But the thing only had 300 km on it, so I didn't expect it to be ladled with arm roll or anything, but there were some. Yeah, whatever. I was happy to get into it.

Yeah.

But after the fact, I needed the business manager that took care of the financing to forward a copy of the bill of sale to my insurance company because I was making damn sure that I had full replacement on this thing for the first three years of ownership. Yeah, because if I drive it off a lot and I get smoked by a transport and it's written off, I don't want them to write me a check for 63 grand when it's going to cost me 78 plus tax to replace.

That's right.

Yeah.

So anyway, after repeat emails from my insurance broker to the business office, they never got back to me. Or, sorry, they never got back to her. I was cc'd on the email so I never saw anything back. I texted the sales guy who never got back to me. I ended up scanning it myself and sending it to my insurance broker and everybody was happy. We made sure that I had coverage.

Yeah.

But I can't help but feel like, oh, we made our sale, we don't have to deal with this guy ever again.

Yeah, that's exactly.

And we're talking days after arguably the second largest financial decision I've ever made in my life.

Yeah, 100%.

Have a little bit of self respect. Right?

Yeah.

Because what am I going to say about this now? And I still haven't gotten my survey to fill out, so I know full well if he doesn't get 100%, he gets nothing.

Right.

And I don't know how I'm going to play it. He did really well. Young guy, young service or, sorry, sales guy. But I don't know, does he deserve 100%? He could have simply replied to the sex. Yes. The text. Yeah, I'm on it.

Yeah.

Anyway, for sure.

And people have heard me joke for years and I say it's true and it's going to come true. And it has come true. You're going to see, I think, honestly, new car salesmen are going to be replaced with kiosks or vending machines. I mean, Carvana in the States did it when they showed that you can buy cars out of a vending machine. Now, Carvana is Carvana and it's not what it was. But, I mean, the proof of concept is still there, right? We do not need. There's the big boy. We do not need these people that are overworked, running around with multiple fires to put out at one time to actually make the transaction happen.

You know what I mean? Like, for a lot of us, we're quite willing and able to go on a website, look at the different options, spec it out ourselves, hit play and buy it. Just like people buy online. Every damn Hyundai or Kia one of the two was going to talk about, they're rolling out a model. This is what I've heard that you're only going to be able to purchase online, they're totally going to be headed towards that. So for the people that listen that are selling cars or handling service as an advisor, realize that as this next generation is coming up into the world, where we're starting to spend more and more money, we're very comfortable and very used to making transactions happen without talking to anyone else. So the reality is, yeah, we appreciate you. You're overworked. It's not easy.

We're not trying to say service advisor. Somebody's talking and they're saying it's the hardest job in the dealership. And I would probably have to agree. Right. It's not the most skilled, that's a technician, but it's certainly the hardest because they are constantly bombarded by technicians, by salesmen, by managers in all three departments about, hey, Mrs. Smith's car. Like she needs this part and the parts back ordered. But Mrs.

Smith's a really great customer. Is there any chance that we can go and yank it, know, unit number, whatever, and put it on Mrs. Smith's car so I don't get buried on the survey? And they face that stuff daily. So this is not me ripping on service advisors, it's not even me ripping on salesmen. It's just the reality is that as people get more entitled and less patient, some of them, I think, just need to slow down and do a better job. Which is the same advice I tell a lot of technicians every day. Slow down, do a better job.

Right there is true. Regardless of your profession, regardless of what trade you work in, regardless of what you do, slow down, take a breath, and see if you could do something a little bit better.

Yeah.

And I'm not going to fault this sales guy. He's going to get 100% because he came in on his day off to deliver my truck to me on my 51st birthday at 930 on a Saturday morning. I'd give him 150% if I could because it made me happy. It was great.

Yeah.

When I bought my jeep used and, like, you know that story, I drove over an hour and a half out of town to get the jeep that I wanted because nobody around here, like, their prices were ridiculous. It's the same thing. They couldn't call back. You say, I don't want to buy a stick shift because my knee will not allow me to drive a stick for more than about 20 minutes. So I need an automatic. And the guy says, oh, I got a stick one here. Are you paying attention, Scooter? It's not that I don't think it's a nice jeep. My knee won't allow me to drive it anyway.

So it's details, right? It's details. And you're slow down, take a breath and think about. I mean, you still implicate that every day in life. I do too.

Right?

It's just we have to all at all facets of this do it better. We're starting to slip. And I don't know what is. Whether all we're overworked or the margins have gotten thinner or if it's greed's gone up, I don't know. But I had a great experience buying my jeep, but it's pretty pathetic that I had to travel outside of my community to find it. And then, I mean, he went above and beyond. They've heard me joke. He offered me a job when I was there.

He's like, oh, you're a tech. And it's like, yeah, of course. Who isn't looking for techs right now? But he's like, no, but you worked on the product. I'm like, yeah, I've worked on the product. I'm familiar every place is needing right now. And that's the only excuse. Sometimes when I hear other people lament to me about the frustrations they're having with getting their cars fixed or serviced or salesmen and all that kind of stuff, I just say, listen, there's a massive shortage right now and this is unfortunately is the future of this because people are just not getting into this industry anymore. And I kind of understand why, but I'm here to try and my goal is to try and make this better again so that people like when you and I were young wanted to do this right.

I don't have a ton of love for salesmen just to put a person like, they're not my favorite people in the dealership environment, but that's not the point here. And it's not what you're trying to say either. Right. I appreciate how you handled it with the advisor because you and I kind of talked about how you're going through with it and I'm like, oh man, that's just ridiculous.

I don't want to curse, but it's bullshit.

Yeah, it is bullshit.

You can say bullshit, it's totally fine, but you and I have a good understanding of why it happens. Yeah, but it's sad that it's taken so long and it's still happening and that's why we're here doing what we're doing. Right. Is trying to.

And I can understand the frustration from a technician's aspect, but I didn't bring a truck in for a ghost code. Yeah, it was there because I left my house at 06:00 in the morning to get to town for seven, had a coffee with my kid, and then had it at the dealership for eight.

Yeah.

And I made sure that the check engine light was on and I scanned it before I brought it in to make sure that there weren't any other codes. It was still the same code so I didn't look like an idiot. And they were diagnosing something that was completely different from what I told them I had found.

Yeah.

What scares, that's just a personal thing. That was the way I felt about it.

What scares me in that whole transaction is the idea that they could have had 2 hours approved, maybe billed somebody 2 hours.

Right.

And what would they have necessarily had different written down or done to justify that 2 hours. You know what I mean? How many people have gotten a bill for 2 hours for that same type of repair? Something that's covered under powertrain. Just like I said, what my mother went through. You and I know that tech's probably not getting paid 2 hours labor for what he did. That tech's probably getting paid nothing. Because depending know, extended warranty under GM is probably not paying him any diag for the code scan or the testing or so, which is maybe why nothing was done, we don't know. But the idea that it seems like you were tried to be charged a half an hour for nothing to be done. And sure you can hear the argument that says, well, that advisor has to, he has a salary, he has to get paid something.

Yes, I get it. But the technician needs to get something too. If you can't get it from your original manufacturer your know, that's not Dan's problem. That's not the customer's fault, that's not their problem. That's who you choose to do business with as a dealer owner. And that's for you to set up your shop, then your margins so that everybody still gets paid something at the end of the day. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It just sucks. That's the evil, slimy part of this whole industry that just makes me sick is because you know as well as I do, the guy that owns that dealer, he can afford to pay the staff, right? He didn't work for his money. He got it by name, right. Daddy left it to him. So the fact that this is still how they want to conduct business and do business is probably why they're losing money.

And I don't begrudge anyone that does have money. Yeah, no, I don't think that somebody that does have money should give it all away to somebody else.

God no.

But I do firmly believe in compensating someone fairly for what you ask them to do.

Yeah.

Just think about.

Go ahead.

I really wish that all the dealer principals out there could put themselves in the tech shoes or the sales guy's shoes, or the detail guy's shoes.

Put.

Themselves and realize that everybody has a job to do and everyone is an ingredient in making a recipe work.

Yeah, think about that poor guy that's only been on that job four months. And think about the way he's starting to feel about his job and his chosen career, profession, whatever it may be. You're probably not even the first person that he's dealt with that they've just let him out to hang, let him out to dry like his coworkers. It's just a sleaze ball kind of move. And I wish, like I said, everybody.

Could just for that reason alone. Because his teammates left him out to. Hung him out to dry. That's enough for me not to ever want to go back to that place.

That's right.

Yeah. My hopes for that young man is that he finds a dealership or an employer. Doesn't have to be dealership. Where if he's got skills and he's good with people and stuff, that they appreciate him and give him a pathway to become a valuable asset to their business. That's what I hope. It doesn't sound like he's going to probably get it there and then what's he going to be? He's going to be a washout. Maybe he goes to selling something else. Maybe he gets out of the automotive industry at all because he's like, f this.

It's toxic. And not all of it is, but that particular, obviously that scenario for him, that location. Yeah, it is. It's too bad. I just wanted to thank you for coming on. Like I said when you started talking to me about this a couple of weeks ago, I'm like, we got to dig into this because there's so many different perspectives that come out of this kind of experience. And I'm happy that you're being so well taken care of while you're recovering. Huge.

Makes me feel very happy that there's nobody that deserves it more than you. I'm over the moon ecstatic. So I'm glad that you've got all the time to recover and no stress about that.

That just accelerates the whole healing process. Right. I don't have to worry about it. And I've got coworkers that are reaching out saying, do you need me to go get groceries for you? These people don't know me. I work with them. Yeah, but they aren't close friends. Just the fact that they're willing to do that, it's huge.

Well, I will let you go. I'm sure you're going to fill me in after we stop recording about the inside info you were kind of given on what's going on there, and I'm dying to hear it. But as always, like I keep saying, we're going to keep having some of our popular guests back on and on. I want to thank you for coming in here to Sunday afternoon.

Anytime.

You could be doing 100 other things, and I appreciate you coming on and sharing this little thing with us. There's some good perspectives, some good fat for people to chew about how to do their job better. And we'll have you on again as things go on. Yeah, I want to hear if you wind up at this dealership for service. We want to hear how it goes.

Yeah.

All right, man.

I'm sure. Well, the beauty of the Chrysler service contract is that I don't have to go back to that. I can take it to any Chrysler dealership.

Yeah.

And I think if there's anything other than oil changes, I know a guy that, I know a couple of guys at the other Chrysler dealership that I have a lot of professional respect for and a lot of personal.

Sure, for sure.

And it'll go to them if it needs anything.

And you'd come see me, too. I can fumble my way through it. Yeah.

But if it's got warranty.

I'm not.

Going to ask you to do it for free. And I probably can't afford to pay you to do it.

Yeah, but I mean, it's a Chrysler. It's not really going to, actually. It's not going to break.

No, it probably won't. And just so we're clear, it's a Durango Rt plus black top. And I love it. It's not an SRT, it's not a hellcat. I'm never going to pretend that it is.

No.

And it sounds great when you romp on it, but it's just a little bit quiet.

Yeah.

So I have it booked at an independent in a couple of weeks to get some custom stainless exhaust done.

Nice.

Right on the place that I'm taking it to. Did a full stainless manifold back system on my crew cab, long box dually, and did an amazing job.

Yeah.

All I'm going to do on this thing is leave the suitcase muffler and replace the giant resonators at the back with a couple of two and a half inch, twelve inch long, vibrant straight throughs and a couple of different exhaust tips. And hopefully it's not in your face loud, because I don't want to be that guy. Yeah, but it needs a little bit more rumble. It is a hemi.

I know some people, my detractors will say that that's the only good part of a hemi, is buying one, is how it sounds until it breaks. But, I mean, they're haters regardless. Anyway, I will let you go. I appreciate you, as always. So we'll be talking again soon. Keep healing up, man. It's good to see you again. I'm happy that like I said, that things are going so well.

All right, we'll talk to you soon.

Much appreciate it. You too.

Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the changing the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter. And we'll see you all again next time. Bye.

How Important is Customer Service in the Automotive Industry? With Dan Licharson

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