They talk about how the team deals with a bad situation during the weekend and still finishes strong. The takeaway is how that experience builds confidence for future races.
Road courses are tracks with lots of turns and braking, not just left turns on an oval. Cars and drivers usually need different setups and skills to handle the corners and slow-downs.
Michigan International Speedway is a NASCAR oval track. It’s the kind of place where how your tires and car feel over a long stretch can decide whether you’re fighting for the win.
During a pit stop, NASCAR teams can change all four tires or just some. Changing all four usually gives the car better grip and handling for the next stretch of the race.
“Stage two” is the second part of a NASCAR race. It’s a key time because drivers and teams try to improve their position and car feel before the final stretch.
NASCAR races are broken into chunks called stages. “Stage one” is the first chunk, and drivers earn points and teams make strategy decisions based on how they’re doing.
Berlin Raceway is a track where late model stock cars race. The driver says racing there helps him stay sharp and improve his racecraft for the higher-level Cup races.
“Super late model” is a type of race car used on short tracks. It’s a tough, competitive class, and racing it can help a driver get better at reading races and managing car behavior.
“Cup side” means NASCAR’s top series. The driver is saying that racing in other types of stock cars helps him learn skills that make him better when he goes back to the Cup races.
The Xfinity Series is NASCAR’s “next step down” from the main Cup series. It’s a major league where drivers learn and compete hard, and many future Cup stars come through it.
Pocono Raceway is a NASCAR track with a weird, distinctive shape compared to most ovals. Because of that, teams have to set up the car and choose lines carefully to handle the different corners.
“Turn three” just means a particular corner on the track. If you’re strong through that corner, it can help your whole lap and make the car easier to drive the rest of the way around.
Term
short pitch stage
“Short pitch stage” describes a strategy where a team plans to pit earlier than the maximum run to position the car for better performance in the stage finish. It’s a tradeoff: you may sacrifice some track position or tire/fuel efficiency to gain speed when it matters most for stage results.
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What was that like for you as you get a head pat there, you know, it's just nice to race up there and it's not as challenging in some ways as when you're running, you know, 15th or 20th.
Yeah, David, he's enjoying the interview too.
Welcome in to a special edition of Kevin Harvex Happier. I'm Caitlin Vinci and so thrilled to have Eric Jones joining us on the show today from the car.
I see you are still out traveling in Michigan. It's great to see you and what a great weekend as well. You had out there in Michigan, the home track for you.
You have to be pretty pleased with that performance for a variety of reasons, I imagine.
Yeah, I mean, it was a great day in a lot of ways, but obviously having a good one at home is always fun.
So yeah, we were up here all week and just catching up with friends and family and then we're still here driving over today to run the late model tomorrow night.
And so yeah, it's been great. You know, I think the last, I would say month or so, we've had some really strong cars and some good runs, but we haven't really put the finishes together.
So Michigan was the first one. I felt like we just put the whole day together and, you know, got some stage points at stage two and ran up front and had an opportunity, had things, you know, played out a little better to win the race.
So it was just a lot of fun. It's fun to drive fast cars and run up front and challenge for the win and, you know, hopefully we can keep doing that.
I don't know how fun it is to have to do it from the back, but you made a show out of it, very impressive, just like our race winner doing it from the rear.
How were you able to make your way up through there, through the field like that?
Yeah, we obviously didn't want to start back there and we had a good qualifying effort up there in 10th. And so we had to make a decision and it was really sort of last minute.
We talked about it all the way until race day morning and making the choice to repair some damage from practice from the flat tire and then go to the back.
And I think super glad we did. I think we were a little concerned to get starting position initially, but knew that Michigan's place you could pass and get, you know, your position back if you have a good car.
And felt like we had a car that, you know, damage free was going to be a top five car. So we didn't want to have ourselves, I guess, any excuses in the basket if we go out and we had a, you know, a 10th place day or 15th place day going to say,
well, you know, we should have fixed the damage or we had this going on and that's why we weren't good enough.
So just made the choice to fix it and I'm glad we did because the car was really good and we were able to get through there so fast.
How do you feel like performances like Sunday though are defining moments for the team when you face those difficulties and you're still able to overcome them and have a really solid finish like that?
I think everybody was nervous about having to go to the back. We all know that, you know, qualifying is so important and we've been focusing really hard on qualifying and getting better at it and starting farther forward.
And then we did that and all of a sudden we're going to say, well, okay, now we're going to start at the back when I make this choice. So I think the momentum is the big thing, you know, when we have a day like Sunday where we can just go out and show that we've got that kind of speed and that pace.
I think the momentum carries through the whole team. I know it definitely feels good for myself just being able to have some speed and feel good about when I get in the car knowing that it's going to be good and we've had good cars.
So I think that's the biggest thing is that momentum and that competence that you can kind of carry on from each week.
You mentioned the momentum. You guys have made a lot of gains as of late. What do you think has been the biggest contributing factor for that with really legacy as a whole?
Yeah, I don't think it's really just one thing. You know, you can't just say we did this one thing better or something of that sort. I guess, you know, it's a lot of little things that we've kind of added together that have made a big difference.
I feel like we've obviously had a lot of speed. I feel like the 42s had some good speed. They haven't got the finishes that they've deserved. So as a company, I feel like we have just been bringing better race cars and better performance in the track each week.
You know, it's a good stretch of tracks, too, for us historic ladies. These ones we've been on the last month or so. But, you know, I think we get through next week with hopefully a bunch more points in Pocono.
And then we go into these two road courses and hopefully, you know, just show improvement. Road courses have been a big struggle for us as a group and we've been working really, really hard to get them better.
So, you know, if we can go through those two with a little bit of improvement and just showing that we've gotten our cars better and our drivers better as well, you know, I think that would be a big day.
With Michigan specifically, you're very good in the long run. At what point in the race did you start to realize, okay, we got something good here beneath me right now?
Yeah, I think it was, you know, in, I mean, in the stage one, we got up there at like 14th or 13th. And I felt pretty good about that. But I think stage two when we started driving through the field there on that long run when we had four tires and some of those guys had taken two.
And I thought as we rolled through the field and we were passing, some of the guys were passing, I knew that we had a really good car. And that was kind of the moment where I thought maybe we were going to have a chance to contend for the win.
You know, the first stage was a little hard to tell. We didn't get up front far enough to know. But by stage two when we ran second in that stage and just kind of ran out of time really to win it, I knew that our car was super strong.
And having to hold off some very tough competitors, I might add as well with Larson and Hosevar and all the different things in the mix, you know, what was that like from your vantage point?
Yeah, you know, it's just nice to race up there. And with those guys, and it's definitely not as, it's not as challenging in some ways as when you're running, you know, 15th or 20th. The battles back there are, you know, so intense.
Everybody's kind of scrapping and falling for every inch. When you get up in the top five, everybody gets a little bit more laid back, just knowing that, you know, maybe it's one run where someone's trying to get their car a little better or they're working on their stuff and they know they're going to have a shot to get back up front if they just have some more time.
So the racing is way more relaxed, which is nice. And hopefully we just can run up there more and gain those guys, I guess, confidence in racing with us and, you know, know that we can get up there and be good.
And the racing continues because as you mentioned, super late model race there in Berlin. What's that race mean to you and having the opportunity to do that? And how does that help you translate in other ways to the cup side?
Well, it's nice to come back here. I enjoy just getting to race late model when I can and I only get to do it maybe four times a year and these two at Berlin and this coming up this week and then later in August in the year we come back again.
It's fun. This is a place I grew up racing at for years and years and just raced against a lot of guys I learned a lot from and still get the chance to race against a few of them. They're still out here running and running these cars.
So for me, as far as it goes, you know, connecting the cup side, I think it's just helpful to stay in a car and in the rhythm. You know, anytime you just get in any vehicle and you're out there doing it and learning more racecraft and keeping up with it all during the week.
I think it's a benefit for the weekend when you go back into the cup car just being a little bit more sharp.
You referenced just growing up racing in Michigan. What was the culture like growing up racing in that state? Because every state's kind of different. It has its own ways about it. What was that like for you as you get a head pat there?
Yeah. Yeah, David's he's enjoying the interview too. But yeah, you know, it's funny. You don't think of I don't think people think of Michigan as like a big state for racing or somewhere that it's, you know, really, really popular.
But there is a big racing culture up here and I think just a big car culture in general. So we have tons of local tracks and pavement tracks and you think of a lot of great racers that came from up here.
And so for me, yeah, it's always been kind of ingrained. I think we weren't a racing family, but we had cars and always loved cars and that sort of thing.
So I think that's what kind of sparked the racing interest is just the love of cars and being around them as a kid.
And now you have your own child. David has been hanging out with us during the course of this interview. I loved the picture you posted over the weekend of your wife, Holly, and just the family side.
And I'm curious, you know, how you feel like you've changed since you've become a dad and how it even has maybe it changed your approach to racing?
Yeah, I think it, you know, it definitely makes you more patient being able to deal with David every day and how crazy he is all the time.
But yeah, I think it gets you a different meaning to and why you why you do what you do. And, you know, a lot of it is to show him, I guess, later on why, you know, why I'm doing this, why I'm racing and how I approach it.
And it's just lessons that, you know, for him later on, I hope he can take something from.
And so that's the part that I think has really changed the way I look at racing and how I go about what I do on a week to week basis is just for him to have something to look at later on.
I know he's very young, but what's kind of his reaction when he is at the track?
Is he curious about it? Is he just kind of looking around like what's going on here?
Yeah, he likes it. He loves the cars and being around them and seeing him.
He always wants to get in the car even after the race at Michigan.
He was out there and he wanted to hop in the car after I got out.
And so he's definitely interested in it and curious and wants to know, I guess, I think, kind of what is going on a little bit more.
But it's just, it's always fun.
I mean, just showing him and having him around be a part of it and learning about it.
That's the part that's really cool for me.
That's very special for sure.
It's cool to see you as a dad now.
You also work a lot with another fellow racing dad and Jimmy Johnson.
I'm curious from you, what are some of the biggest things that you've learned from Jimmy and just being in his presence week to week?
Yeah, I think just the way, you know, he approaches racing and some of the things that he did when he was a driver is the things that I take from him.
You know, he obviously the cars are really different now, so he can't always add a lot on just the driving style of what he did.
It just has changed so much.
But I think the approach that he had, how he went about his weeks and his approach to the track on each weekend is something that obviously still applies today.
So I think that's the biggest thing he shared.
It's just the approach that he had and how he went about his business is something that I've always been able to learn from him since he's been around at Legacy.
That's a great person to be learning from.
You know, when you guys started this team not that long ago, it's been really neat to see the progress of it.
What are some things maybe though the average fan may not understand about the challenges and the growing pains that comes when you completely start a new organization?
Yeah, it's really challenging in a lot of ways.
But, you know, the manufacturers which we made a couple of years ago to Toyota was a huge change for us.
We had to take on so much more to be, you know, not relying on another team with an alliance.
And that's what we always did for years.
We were an alliance team and we wanted to go out on our own and be able to, you know, build this program and build these cars.
And I would say the biggest thing was just the amount of people that we had to bring on and the departments that we had to build out were just massive.
So we're finally, you know, getting there.
I think we got to the point maybe a year or six months ago, we had almost all our positions filled.
And now we're, you know, back adding on again, like crazy, getting ready for this third car next year.
So it's been a huge building process.
It's been fun to be a part of and it's been a great learning experience to be a part of it all.
And there's times where it's a lot of fun and rewarding.
There's times where it's really frustrating and you wish it was just better.
So yeah, it's a tough process from top to bottom.
But it's at the end of the day, it has been rewarding this last month, especially days like yesterday.
You know, when you put in the work and grind it out and you see the progress, that's when it really makes it feel right.
And it was announced recently, there will be 27 celebrity investors coming in that was announced.
What do you think, how does that speak to just the influence of Jimmy and what legacy is doing that all these different people want to be a part of it?
Yeah, I mean, I think Jimmy has a great vision for what he wants the team to be.
And I think bringing awareness to the team through the celebrity investors is great.
You know, we, we have to, at the end of the day, we have to make it sustainable.
And we have to make it a business that works for us on the racing side.
And I think he's done a great job of kind of bridging that gap and finding different areas that he can bring in revenue and bring in people
who are interested in racing and also bring in an experience that people who don't know about racing,
they want to come and check it out.
They want to be at the track and see what it's really all about.
So I think that's been the coolest part about the investment group that he's been bringing on.
We're showing the Darius Rucker impromptu concert at the racetrack.
I don't think I ever would have expected to see something like that.
That's pretty cool and very unique just things going on with your team.
Yeah, it's fun.
I mean, we do different stuff.
We've got a great hospitality program that we set up each week and bring to the track.
Not every week, but most weeks.
And we have it's an experience that I guess I don't really see from other teams out there that we provide.
And it's been something that has been great for our partners.
You know, you see them come out and we show up and we do our appearances up there.
And what they're what they're having for an experience and falling out at the racetrack is really,
really unique and really fun to see.
So been fun to be a part of and watch it kind of grow and see Jimmy's vision come to life.
It has been very neat indeed.
I do want to talk to you for a moment about Kyle Busch.
The late Kyle Busch obviously had a very important role in your life.
I want to go back to 2012 in the snowball derby, which was a turning point for your life and your career and Kyle Busch was a big part of that.
You beat him, which many people can't do.
What do you remember about that day and how did it just totally change the trajectory of your life?
Yeah, I mean, I had known Kyle a little bit before that day and raced against him a couple of times in late models.
I'd actually tested his car one time for him a few months before that as he was he was traveling back and forth between Talladega and
the National Fairgrounds.
And so I was just shaking the car down while he wasn't there.
And, you know, we went to the snowball and then won that race and I had not had.
I was I was 16 at the time.
I didn't have any opportunity in NASCAR at all.
I wasn't really getting any interest from anyone on that side of things.
So all of a sudden it opened up a door to me to go drive his truck for a minute.
I got to do five races that next season for him and we won one of them at Phoenix.
And then that went to, you know, I think 14 maybe the next year and in 2014 and then full time and 15 with him.
And all along the way he was helping me build my relationship with with Toyota and Joe Gibbs at the time to get in their
Cindi car and their Wiley car and run races and then eventually go full time for them.
And, you know, and eventually after that all the way to the Cup Series.
And so it was really neat for me to meet him at that time and then go all the way to being a teammate with him in the Cup Series.
And I think that was cool for him too.
You know, he was always the guy that, you know, he he he got to kind of pick me from the from the crowd and help me along, you know,
and without him I don't think that, you know, I don't know if I ever would have really got to where I am.
I think maybe there were some opportunities along the way, but probably not like he gave me with the trucks and the equipment that he had at the time
that were, you know, top notch and I was able to go out and run up front and win.
And so I'll never forget that, you know, and for me it was just fun.
I just enjoyed hanging out with him.
I enjoyed being around him and his family and it was fun to watch him and Brexton just go race and watch that relationship grow
and then see how much he cared about him and his racing and how much he put into it.
There was just a lot of neat things that that Kyle had going on, you know, even away from from his own racing that was that was fun to watch.
Yeah, that's really neat.
I'm sure he's very, very proud of everything you've achieved.
And I feel like he was one of those individuals that just elevated everybody.
Would you say that's fair?
I mean, he was a tough teacher at times, but he made everybody better, whether you're a media member, a driver, all of those things.
Yeah, I always enjoyed getting a chance to race with him.
You know, it was challenging.
I think the most challenging was the Xfinity series when I went full time in 16.
He ran seemed like every race and he was always out there and super fast and hard to beat.
But those days where we did get to beat him those couple of times, it wasn't many times, you know, it felt great.
You knew that you beat the best.
You knew that there wasn't anybody else out there that was going to be harder to beat probably than him that day.
So I always learned so much just being on the track with him and watching him.
And, you know, he he helped me elevate my level of performance, you know, to the next level.
So I always remember that and just the times raised with him and being around him.
He definitely could could help you bring your game up to the next level.
I felt.
Yeah, thank you for sharing some of those memories and stories of him.
I want to look ahead to kind of the future here and you have good numbers.
Pocono, I noticed in the cup car over there at the tricky triangle.
What's the expectations going to that place because it is so unique and trying to get your car right in all three places.
Yeah, it is tough.
And in some ways, I think, you know, everybody's kind of found the biggest or the most important corner is is turn three and how you can get through there.
But overall, there's also a lot of choices.
You got to make it Pocono.
You know, there's opportunities to get stage points.
There's opportunities to short pitch stage and try to go for a better finish.
So, you know, we'll have to make a quick assessment early on.
I guess what kind of race car we think we have.
And, you know, if we have a car like Michigan, obviously going to play to try to win the race.
So I hope that's what we have.
And I hope that's the choice we're making.
But at the end of the day, there's there's a good opportunity to gain a lot more points.
You know, on this cut line, we're getting really close.
It's obviously really tight right at the cut line.
There's a lot of guys that are kind of right on that number.
But, you know, we need a few more, a few more really good weeks at least get into the playoffs
and then, you know, hopefully add a cushion from there to the cut line.
So I'm excited.
I like Pocono a lot and I like racing there and just excited to get out there and see what kind of car we have.
Yeah, it's a unique part of the country to go to a person who is obviously pivotal to your success
and this whole operation that's happening right now.
I want to mention him is Dustin Alexander, your crew chief, first full season with you two together.
How do you feel like you compliment each other and just that that has been the good pairing for you?
Yeah, I think, you know, Justin and I always it seems like we're on the same page.
It's really easy to communicate with him and obviously having fast cars makes life easier too.
True.
You know, I don't know if we even made a single adjustment in Michigan all day during the race.
So, you know, it's been fun working with him.
He was obviously out of the sport for a while and to have him come back in this year.
And I think he's elevated the game.
I think overall our whole group is really strong.
You know, I think Justin and I communicate really well and the engineers that we have communicate well.
The guys who are wrenching on the cars, I've worked with them now for, you know, a handful of years.
So everybody's just really comfortable with each other.
And, you know, we know we have a great opportunity right now some some fast race cars.
We're all just trying to make the most of it.
But I think Justin has done a really good job with just the adjustment side and knowing when I'm asking for stuff,
you know, what I need and what I'm looking for as far as a feel in the race car.
And I always feel good about, you know, when I'm calling in and asking for stuff that he's going to come back with the right changes that I need.
It's good to have that trust there.
And you mentioned to the cut line a bit ago and I look at the Southern 500 that's obviously further down the season.
You've had a lot of great memories and moments at that racetrack.
So are you thinking about that mindful of that as you look towards the chase and what that race could present?
Yeah, definitely.
We always look forward to going to Darlington.
We were a little bit worried this year with the package change of things were still going to be as good for us.
But I felt like we went there in the spring and had another really good car.
So yeah, I would obviously love to add another win there.
And I feel like with the cars that we have right now, that's more than possible.
A couple of races we won there.
The first one, we were really strong 20 car and then the 43 car, we really weren't the best car that day.
We just had a lot of things really play out well for us.
So, you know, that race, you have to have kind of everything go right.
There's always one, I feel like funky sequence in there where guys are pitting, they're not pitting, yellow comes out in a cycle.
You know, something always a little bit strange happens in that race.
You just have to hit it all right.
So, yeah, definitely they're looking forward to it.
Always get excited to go to that track and especially in that race has won so well for us.
Well, this has been really interesting conversation with you today.
It's been a lot that you would join us and share more about your whole life and everything that you have going on.
I know you've got the family with you and you have a busy couple of days ahead of you before we get out to Pocono.
But thank you so much for joining us, Eric.
And best of luck to you, of course, this weekend as well.
Sounds good. Thanks for having me out.
Thank you.
About this episode
Kyle Busch’s influence on Erik Jones is traced from a Snowball Derby turning point to early truck opportunities and relationships that helped open doors toward Cup. The conversation then zooms in on race execution: a flat-tire repair decision at Michigan, stage-two momentum, and how tire strategy and long-run strength can move a team through the field. Harvick also reflects on learning from Jimmie Johnson’s week-to-week approach and the business side of building sustainable programs, while looking ahead to Pocono and Darlington.
Coming off an incredible, season-best 2nd-place finish at Michigan International Speedway, Erik Jones breaks down how he charged from the rear of the field to the front, helping secure a dominant 1-2-3 finish for Toyota. Erik opens up about what it took to go toe-to-toe with Denny Hamlin in the closing laps at his home track, the competitive gains Legacy Motor Club is making behind the scenes, and what it really takes to build a new manufacturer program from the ground up.
Plus, Erik shares an emotional reflection on his early career, detailing exactly how much Kyle Busch changed his life and trajectory forever by taking him under his wing. He also discusses learning from Legacy Motor Club co-owner Jimmie Johnson on a week-to-week basis, how grassroots racing shaped his career, and how fatherhood has changed his mindset behind the wheel. Finally, we look ahead to the Tricky Triangle at Pocono and outline the strategy needed to survive the high-stakes countdown to The Chase, NASCAR's new playoff format.
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