How Racing Pre-War Bentleys Changed My Life w. Katarina Kyvalova

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How we say racing, it's you can't replace it with anything else.

It gives you the kick, the adrenaline and everything.

And you get out of the car and you're busy.

And for me personally, there's no other kick of this kind with other support or whatever.

It's addictive.

It's highly addictive.

Hi, everyone.

Welcome to the CarChat podcast.

I'm Sam Morse and I'm here with Katarina.

Hello.

Hi, Sam.

Welcome.

Welcome to the podcast.

Can you tell the listeners a little bit about sort of short summary of who you are and what you do?

Yeah.

Well, I'm Katarina Kupala, my name.

I'm born in Slovakia and living in Germany for, oh my goodness, quarter of a century.

And clearly fell in love with cars many, many years ago.

Why?

I don't know.

Cars found me, but absolutely lived the passion and racing, rallying and everything.

When I got four wheels, I'm just in love with that.

So I'm lost around the world.

A long, a long time fan and in deep.

Now, how and how did you get to the point?

Because I was, you know, having a look around and I looked at various articles and stories

and seeing you in racing some Bentley's and things like that.

How, you know, how did that sort of like come about?

How did you get to the point where you're owning a Bentley and racing a Bentley?

And also like, why older cars?

Like, how did that part of the journey come about?

Yeah, it was a very, I would say, unusual start into the automotive world.

I had, oh, I have still friends who love cars.

So I just found myself many, many years ago and a group of car friends who just, you know,

got me into that a little bit, you know, to join a rally as a co-navigator, you know,

as a passenger in the car simply for classic car rallies.

So that was pretty much the start of me, you know, loving classic cars itself.

And the step was very close.

Then, you know, just go to Concord d'Elegance.

I loved pre-war cars from beginning on, the beautiful 23rd, these coach-built cars

with beautiful bodies on it.

So, yeah, I started to go to Apple Beach and I don't know, you know, Concord d'Elegance and just

admired these cars.

So race cars back in time.

It was just like ugly, you know, I was like, I don't understand what it's all about.

I was absolutely in all my world.

And, you know, the one thing come with the other one and, yeah, got a chance to drive

a classic car at some point by chance.

And I seriously knew straight away, like, this is my thing.

This is my, this is my hobby.

I knew I'm lost.

So, yeah, so that is why I love pre-war cars.

And I have a really, there's a huge space in my heart for pre-war cars until today,

especially for Bentley, as you said.

And I love them.

They are, they are like a huge beast and drive them.

It's great, great fun, you know, everybody think like it's, they are slow.

I've got no hope.

So, yeah, still, still using them, loving them.

And, yeah, always choose them when I have a chance.

Yeah, I think we've always my first car.

And what was the, what was the first car you, did you get into racing straight away?

Or, yeah, what was the first sort of classic?

Well, first, my first, the very first car which I sort of bought, it's, it's,

it's a long time ago, it's like maybe 20 years ago.

And it was an Austin Healey, 3,000.

So, I love them, you know, light blue or sky blue with white, with cream, the classic.

The classic color, yeah.

Exactly, 3,000, big engine, you know, good sound.

So, it's a girly, girly car in the sense of, but still, still good engine.

So, it was my very first car.

And I drove just in town with that, you know, just, you know, to the office and bag.

And, you know, to the pub around the corner.

So, that was my very first car and I have it until today.

I think I will never sell it, you know.

Your first ever car.

Yeah, well, not ever car, classic car, not classic.

First classic car, okay, yeah, yeah.

First car ever, oh my goodness.

It was Fiat Cinquecento, honestly.

Oh, nice.

With 18 painting or 20 painting, the wheels, you know, it just didn't cost anything.

So, always sort of had a crash on cars from beginning on, after I made my driving lessons.

So, yeah, that was, you know, the very basic begin of me, you know, driving cars around.

Yeah.

And was there, was the Austin Healy, was it reliable?

Did it end up leaving you in certain places?

Oh, God, you know, you know, Austin Healy, especially in the summer, you know, my feet,

my shoes were almost like melted.

So, I never forget it.

You know, it was so hard, but it never gave up.

I like played cool and, yeah, no, it's a great car.

And, you know, back to your question with racing.

I fell in love with the idea.

And my first race car that I ever was, Austin Healy again, because I felt like this is the

way forward, big Healy.

And, yeah, so I sort of stitched to them for a while.

And where was that first race?

Well, my first race, shockingly, was in the most unusual car you can start racing with.

And it was the Bentley 4.5 liters.

So, it was the 1958 car.

And it was straight 24 hours and straight in Portimao and Portugal.

So, kind of, you know, you want to do like suicide and do that.

I never raced.

I never been to circuit before properly.

I had no idea what Apex are, all, you know, terminology.

And, yeah, my good friends in the UK, a free will Bentley drivers convinced me,

you know what, you can drive to car quite okay.

Why don't you join us for this race 24 hours?

And I said, yeah, well, why actually not?

So, having no idea what I did myself.

And did you have a 4.5 Bentley at that time?

Yes, there was.

And it was a very short time, to be fair, because I sort of drove the car, but I was

far off the driving skills, which I would say, yes, I can drive the car pretty well these days.

But back then, I was driving it, you know, I did one millimetre in that,

one rally properly in that.

And that was me done in terms of experience.

So, committing myself for 24 hours, right after with the three goals,

Bentley bells and all the story, which I sure you know, that was kind of crazy.

So, yeah, I was big in my motorsport racing, you know.

Had you driven it on track?

Have you driven much on track before that?

Never, I've never been on track.

I've never been, no, I've never, no.

I was a regular visitor from Goodwood, Goodwood Revival.

I was so proud, you know, living in Germany, no one knew back in time.

I'm talking early 2000s, right?

I became a member of the GRRC and I was going every year to Goodwood,

sitting on the grandstands.

And clearly, I love that, you know, racing, watching it.

But I never did one single lap actually on a circuit.

So, was that quite, that must have been or was that quite intimidating,

sitting on the start line of a 24 hour Le Mans race?

Well, it was in 40 miles, thank God for that.

It's a demanding track anyway.

But of course, you know, I had to do my race car license to start with quickly.

So, yeah, I rented a car at the Frankfurt Airport.

Now, this is a true story, it's so bad actually, I can't believe I've done that.

And I went to the Nürburgring to do my race car license in Germany

because I needed it for the 24 hours.

And that was the first moment where I really realized, you know,

being in the rental car doing my race car license.

Oh my goodness, like this is crazy.

I mean, I don't know if I made it, you know, I did my first laps,

you know, I was breaking too early, too late.

And that was the moment where I thought, well, the idea might be a bit,

you know, crazier than I thought.

But, you know, I just, you know, I did it.

I was like, I'm not pulling back.

So I guess, I guess you don't know what you don't know.

Yeah, that was the great thing.

You're absolutely right.

Because I had this freedom in my mind in the sense of I had no idea

what I was, what I committed myself to, right, clearly.

And I told many people around.

I didn't want to sort of give up and look, you know, bad.

I found my three girls, so I didn't want to cancel.

They had experience, all of them with racing.

I was the only rookie, like really.

And yeah, I think it was just the lightness of not knowing what I'm up to,

what I'm actually putting myself, getting myself into.

And yeah, I'm sure there wasn't.

What were they saying to you before the start?

The girls?

Yeah.

Well, we never met before.

Did you have a conversation?

Well, we had a conversation on the phone because I was clearly running out of time.

Yeah.

So we had only, we had only three months to the race.

So I had to make do my race car license, right?

Yeah.

To start.

Then we won the phones.

The dear friends from the UK found these crazy girls who were like,

sort of willing or had said, okay, let's do it with this girl one over there.

And we just had no time to meet.

So, you know, we were on the phone and so on.

And they went testing.

I went to Goodwood to drive track day, you know, the couple of laps.

And we met literally in Portugal and Portimao then before the race.

And one of us could probably change the gear on the Bentley.

So that was hilarious.

So, yeah, we were learning on the parking lot behind the track, you know, how to change

these gears is tricky.

And we're changing from first to fourth gear for the next 24 hours during the race.

That was a true story.

So, and with that, like learning to drive that car, presuming the gearbox, you've got to,

you know, like get the revs right to get the gears to go in.

Otherwise, they just bounce out.

Is it like that?

Or has it got any sort of synchro?

No, no, absolutely not.

I always say when you can drive a pre-world Bentley, you can pretty much drive everything.

This was the easy step for me then to go to different cars clearly.

They have so-called crash box.

And we call it because, you know, when you're not in the right,

you know, when the gearbox doesn't have to ride speed for the particular gear,

you are not getting the gear in.

So you are not able, so it's crashing, so you'll never get the gear in.

So that's the ultimate test, you know, if you're able to drive a Bentley or not.

And yeah, the car doesn't let you do it.

You know, it's a huge, robust car and the gearbox is, you know, you can't break it.

And, you know, and then you have a double D clutch clearly, you know,

you have to blip the throttle on downshift.

And the main thing, you have to central throttle and brake on the right.

So that's really different gig competency for cars or even later cars.

So all this together, you know, it's kind of a tricky way to drive and to race it.

Because in a race, mainly, you know, it's so easy to forget in the heat of driving

that you have to throttle in the middle and brake.

And all the gears and everything.

Did you have any, like, particularly hairy moments?

In a race.

In that race, no, I don't think so.

Very gently, you know, driving from first to fourth, saving the car.

And that was all right.

When I watched some footage from that, that was 2014 when we've done that.

Yeah.

And I think, Jesus, we had no sort of idea about racing line, you know,

literally driving, you know, we did our laps, let the cars and the guys

pass over the only old female team.

And I just admire literally backwards, you know, ourselves for the enthusiasm.

And then we were so well prepared.

We were the best prepared team in terms of strategy, right?

Fueling, refueling, and we used to wear sheets over sheets.

So that was really female approach to racing, quite fun.

No, that was fine.

I can't remember any hairy moments, not in that race.

So you're basically going for a drive?

Basically, I was like, let's have fun.

Yeah, yeah, having no sort of idea.

I like that.

And we had to drive because back, you know, there was a back to the original idea

of Bentley boys driving in Le Mans.

So we had to run to the cars as a Le Mans start.

Close to hood of the car yourself, with no help.

Do 20 laps with closed hood.

And then when over the driver change, open the hood and carry on.

So closing hood on a Bentley, you know, on your own.

That's a thing itself.

So very good for movie or something.

We had good videos of that.

Very entertaining.

I went for fun.

You know, I ended up racing right after because it was so good.

And, you know, what I had during the race, I have to say,

one of the most memorable and epic moments when it was just sunrise.

And I was in the car in the early morning and I saw the sunrise in Portimao.

And I never forget it.

And I literally, you know, thought this is amazing.

This is better than rallying.

This is better than racing.

And here I was, you know, straight away to racing.

That time of day on a track is super special.

It is the night, the long night.

Every endurance driver, you know, the moon and so on.

The night is endless.

It's darkness and it's just bad.

The moment you see the light and sun is like, oh my God, almost done it.

Well, actually not.

But the light gives you certain hope.

There's a light at the end of the tunnel in the end of the race.

That moment was very memorable.

And what are the lights like on a car like that at night?

Can you see very far?

No, terrible.

Absolutely terrible.

We did have, oh, I still have, you know, additional lights, fog lights.

It's a safety measure.

But still, I mean, with them, with the spots, you can see better.

But the lights, the original lights, they are huge.

But honestly, like two candles is anything you can't see much.

Even in the Lamon, you know, I'm racing the car in Lamon regularly.

And in the middle of the night, you're really guessing sometimes

where the corner is because, yeah, they are high, you know, high.

So they are like, you know, you can see the trees clearly, but not where you should go.

And so was this, this was the start of a new, a new thing?

Have you then done a bunch of, have you done a bunch more races?

Did you do a bunch of more racing in that Bentley?

Well, it was the absolute ultimate start of racing.

I had my race hilly by then.

I literally boarded in our auction, not knowing.

I had the decision to go racing and went back to Portimao two weeks later,

straight away with this Austin Healy.

Oh, wow.

Which because I thought, like, I know the track.

Everybody told me, you know, the track after 24 hours go.

And yeah, I was, it was, it was, it was more serious than, you know,

be surrounded by GT cars and in the rain and rumble.

And yeah.

So I kept on racing my Austin Healy and, and the Bentley until today and clearly,

you know, go into e-types and all different cars.

And there's no help, you know, once you are in it, it's nothing.

Exactly.

And was there a point in time when you were like, okay, racing one car, that's great,

but actually I need more than one car at the weekend.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's clearly it was influenced from my friends.

You know, I got into the racing circles and you have these friends who are racing

more cars and giving you ideas, which are very nice.

You know, you could race this and that.

Oh, it's a bad influence.

Friends with bad influence, clearly.

And so yeah, I stand later on Solar Healy, the race Healy.

And instead of that, I got an e-type 3.8 liter, you know, 365 spec, quite a grown up car.

So that was a huge step for me to going from from Healy into e-type racing.

And, you know, I was like, I can't waste any time.

So I went straight away in those past six hours and the big, the big races and

baptism of fire straight away.

And sure, you know, I'm back to back to the story with Goodwood Revival.

My old, the only big dream was I want to race around the revival.

Who doesn't?

Who is in historic racing?

So yeah, then I was really looking for car, which is eligible for for revival.

And on the Koopa Jaguar T3, which I'm racing until today in Goodwood,

as well as in Monaco.

And it's a lovely, it's a lovely car, the proper race car.

And I'm still growing into it.

I have to say, I'm not 100% there yet.

How do you drive?

Well, what do you have to, how do you have to drive all those cars differently?

Well, you have to, obviously, in terms of just like center throttle and whatever,

but like in terms of how they handle and things like that.

It's a funny thing when you have more cars at one weekend.

So you're racing more cars the same weekend from different periods.

I find it sort of, I find it okay, like center throttle and all that's,

that's something you don't think about.

I don't think about in the Bentley.

You know, when I jump from Bentley to Bentley, they're different.

You don't think about, it's just straight away automatic.

What is different is how you, how you, how you're driving this itself.

You know, the braking points, turning points, you know, the speed you carry through corners.

It takes me a couple of laps to just then, you know, adjust and, and, you know,

drive it in differently than new car.

But, you know, I think when others can do it, I always say I can do it too.

So I'm trying.

Yeah, totally.

Do you like, do you make detailed notes from each track and each car and things like that?

Or not so much?

Maybe not so much anymore.

I should, but I really remember and I have these notes until today.

When I raced first time in 2016 in Monaco with the Cooper Jaguar,

and I was really sort of new racer.

I, I've got my license end of 2014.

So I had one year racing experience, one and a half, and went to Monaco.

So you can imagine, I did the track walk.

I let Coach explain me everything.

And I had these notes, my notes about Monaco.

And I kept it as like really one page per corner.

And it's very entertaining because absolutely no one, no me,

understand what I was writing there.

And it's full of notes and sort of drawings around, obviously I needed it.

And it's, it's good when you do the notes and I do them, but not like that.

Yeah, that was, that was rather fun.

That must be quite fun actually getting like a,

it's like a, almost like a letter to your future self.

If you, if you wrote some notes every time you went or every year or whatever,

it'd be interesting to look back and like how they've changed.

And you're like, well, I know I'm in the same car, but like all the things I'm thinking about

are completely, they must be completely different now loosely to way back when you first started.

True. It's absolutely true.

You reduce it to less notes.

You reduce it to the most important notes, like the information you need.

I definitely write down less because you remember some, some, you know, some stuff.

I just recently raised in Barcelona for the first time. I've never been there.

And actually I didn't do any notes. You, I look at notes from others, right?

These days in the internet, you can find so many helpful,

so much, you know, helpful information and tools and, and on board videos.

That's more than sort of my, you know, my learning tool. And yeah, the notes were very little.

And, and I just, you know, tried to remember the key points, turning points, breaking points.

It must be a bit tricky. I've done some, some racing in a variety of things,

but never in any older cars. And I can always look at

sort of some reference YouTube videos where I've done a bit of radicals.

And I can normally find someone in a radical, very similar to mine on that circuit on that day.

Or, you know, and so you can go, it's basically that's flat and fifth, that's third, that's second.

You can pick up that information. But I guess in historic stuff, all the cars are like a bit

different. Sometimes people have some that are a bit faster than they should be.

You know, so you, can you use those reference clips as much like that?

Well, that's a very good question. Very good question. Because I did some,

oh, I do from time to time, GP4, some modern stuff did radicals too, like you.

And I'm not sure if I could apply those notes for the historic ones.

I think the corners, yes, if it's a double APEC, right? Oh, just, just the basic, but just the

absolutely not. Because you can imagine like the difference between people time and let's say

radical, right? Yeah, we are going to kill yourself. And I like, I always like to just,

just keep them apart. So the GT4 notes is like different worlds. And I don't even look at them.

So even if I have the same circuit, I keep all these notes for next time. And they're my historic

notes. And the GT notes are different, because I think it's going to confuse you otherwise.

Oh, totally different. But even in, within the class, if you have, I don't know,

I don't know what races against each other, like, but you get a whole variety in the classic series,

you know, you might have a mini, you might have a E type, there might be some cobras or something in

the, like, I think I'm crossing classes a little bit there. But, you know, you get some quite different

cars. Do they still follow the same line in an ideal world around the track? Or actually,

do some cars drive the circuit differently based on the style?

No, I would definitely say we all follow the same line. In the end of the day, there is only one

ID line. Sometimes there are corners, the people sort of, you know, discussing how to do this line,

you know, which is better. But in general, it's the same line, absolutely independent from the car

which you're racing. So I would say that's, that's the same for all of us.

In general, is, you know, I think touring cars are different. You have the, you have the element

of sliding, for example, right? So that's, you know, that's a little bit different or on the

pre-war cars, you know, I can't take chicane like you do with a, you know, nimble Lotus, right?

The Lana or something. So it's lovely to see that line, but I'm not even able to make it.

So it's obviously there are differences, but there's only one ID line for all of us.

Yeah, I guess whenever I see the Bentley is going around, I was just, they just look so big

and, well, they look heavy. I don't know, they are like heavier than some cars, but they don't

drive like that, do they? Or do they? Okay, it's a question. What are we comparing with?

Okay, yeah. I definitely confirm they look, they look more impressive and heavier or complicated

than they are, but it's easy to say for me, right? Because I've raced them now for decades, for two

decades. So that's, that's a different, that's a different thing. And it looks easy to me, but

when I let dry friends or let have a go try and I see how they struggle, you know,

if it's changing the gear or even turn the wheel, right? You can't turn the wheel when you're not

moving. It's impossible, right? There's 2.1 times. It's just, so you know, thinking about a carry

speed through corners, it's just you do drive them differently. And I have to say when I see it,

then I think, okay, this is something you have to gain as experienced drive them in a certain way.

And definitely to race them, I have to say when I started to race to Bentley, it's like

more competitive than my first race. And it was in Le Mans. And I had the helmet on, I couldn't

hear the rafts. So you change the gear pretty much. I do it, I'm not looking in the rough

count, right? But you know, but sound, so this is a good, you know, I know how much I have to,

you know, use to central throttle and oblip and get the gear in. And I had the helmet on and I had

these roaring cars around me. And I couldn't really hear it. And then in the night, the gearbox was

colder. And it was it was a totally different gig. And I really struggled with some corners to change

to downshift to change the gear. So so that requires really, obviously, a long experience

compared to modern cars, right? It's the night or day they drive like clock, Swiss clock. So

so that is something what takes time and they are right, they are heavy. I'm not going to lie.

You know, when you are like into tight corner and or quick corner, right, you have muscle

loss afterwards. I'm in the middle, you know, that's, you really feel what you've been doing for

three or four days. So I thought about that, like that totally not being able to hear the exhaust.

I have a theory on like sports cars driving on the road that they need to be a certain volume

with the exhaust, like the noise coming to you needs to be a certain volume for it to like

engage properly with my brain, where you're like, I can hear very, very clearly what's

happening with the throttle. And that that feedback loop totally comes through. And you

saying not being able to hear the engine, it makes me think of

ages ago, I play the guitar, and I was doing a concert, it was back when I was at school,

and we were in this like sort of stadium, big hall type thing. And it got to the point where

I was meant to be doing a solo. And I pressed the button on my amp to change channel or whatever.

And I couldn't hear it. I actually could not hear the guitar at all. And it's that thing if you're

like, well, I kind of know how this goes. But I've got no reference point whatsoever. And you're

just kind of like, okay, well, let's just hopefully this works out. But yeah, I can imagine.

It's very chilling. So what was there a solution to that? Do you go, it's already straight pipes,

we can't make it any louder, or you just have to learn? Oh, solution of Jesus, I was driving.

Oh, I still, it happens to me, as I said, Hello Morning is just the perfect example.

Happens to me that I'm not even able to change the gear and you don't have much time, right?

And eventually you have to have then your hands in the corner with both hands on the wheel,

you're not going to turn otherwise. So I was in a high gear and going through

corner and I changed the gear afterwards. Well, that is a solution you have to help yourself

somehow, right? Pretending you have everything under control. Yeah, change gear afterwards,

spectators have no idea, but clearly you are you're a slower out of the corner. So

learning, you know, I'm going, you know, now to the morning to not even two months. And

I see myself already like, you know, having the same situation again, because you forget it somehow.

Let's see. Do you leave a little bit more space in a car like that for these things,

then say, instead of you race the GT4 GT4, I presume it's paddles, you're pulling the downshift,

it's changing down, you don't need to think about that. But this you're like, well, there's a chance

I might stuff this gear change, at which point I'm going to go another four meters further ahead

or whatever. Hopefully there's no wall. Yeah, exactly. I'm leaving and giving myself way more

pace and time for exactly this kind of, you know, chingling around, especially at the begin,

where I didn't drive now to Bentley for a long time. I did, you know, big rally last year,

so I put the racing a little bit aside. And I kind of nervous about it, because you don't

sort of don't forget it, but you are out of practice. Yeah. So I see myself already giving

myself even a little bit more space and time for these kind of unforeseen situations, what could

happen. And also clearly in the brakes, I mean, they are big, you have huge wheels, big brakes,

they are bad, they're predictably bad, but right. So to pick up the right breaking points, because

once you're not able to stop the car, it's not good. It's just not good. Right. It's like

terrain goes. So anyway, we have no seat belts, right? No seat belts. No, no, no seat belt is

nothing. And, you know, you were just sliding on the seat from left to right. And it's just like,

that is kind of really crazy, what are we doing there? And especially after GT, when I, when I

started, you know, do GTs and the radicals, I went back to pre-war, I realized how dangerous that

actually is. I was never realizing it until I went to GTs, so the level of safety measures and

how really save these cars are, right? And going back into this, I drive more careful. I have to

say this, this lightness we were talking about at the beginning, right? It's there, but not into

that extent. What is good, I think is good, because it's things are happening and, you know, in the

end of today, we're doing it for fun. Yeah, totally. And then I guess like, do you find the people,

because of this, the racing is quite different in modern GT type stuff versus more historic?

Do the car, do people in the cars act differently, or is it down to the individual?

Good question. I think, personally, there's a difference between GT drivers or modern

cars, racers and historic racers. Who is doing modern racing is a good reason to do it, you know.

So it's not like they own a car, like historic, some racers, who means they own a car and heritage

it. There's a story about every single historic car in the paddock. So the people have different

reasons why they go racing with these cars. And in the GT racing, you go racing because you planned

it. So for purpose, right? The majority of people are renting these cars and don't own them.

So this is a different approach. And I think this is also differently. You know, we are all friends

and maids in the pit lane and paddock. We talk to each other and so on. In the GT racing, as you

know, it's a very serious business, right? We all sit and look at data. We are friends, but we are

not like from garage to garage having fun. That's more serious business. So it's a different world.

For me, it's a very different world, which is beautiful in both, on both sides, when you like it,

when you like, when you like the, you know, the elements of it. But yeah, there are differences

from my point of view, yes. And the two people are different, even, right? Sometimes, you know,

historic racers now these days like to go to GT. And they're quite surprised. Like, wow, this is

like, they call it less friendly, but it's more head down and everyone is focusing on our business.

It's not, it's not that what we have in the historic racing. And it's great in a certain way,

but also more serious, definitely, but more, you know, more colder atmosphere.

What is good? Sure. So do you have more fun historic racing?

Oh, that's a question. I don't have more fun. I love more, I love more historic cars to start

with. I'm coming from that. They have more soul, historic cars. What is beautiful? I just

raced in Spa a few days ago and it, it calls gentlemen's trophy. And it's amazing, amazing

racing was because there was so many brands, right? So many cars from different periods.

The look, they all look different. They're beautiful to look at. I mean, you don't have it

these days, do you? Right? You go to GT historicism, they sort of look. They're kind of all the same,

but not all the same, right? The beauty just disappeared. I think these days, car manufacturers

are building cars for efficiency, right? They're doing, they're building in less or the other

aspect of beauty is pretty much less on the list they follow. So it has to be aerodynamics and so

and, and, and it just disappears. So when you look at these historic races, you know, races,

and you see this grid of beautiful cars, how, how can you love it? I think everybody love it,

like spectators, you know, we love it. And you have to be one unit with the car. GT racing,

they're machines. You're there. And if it doesn't work, you can blame the team. We have always

this, you know, book of excuses, obviously, but, you know, with historic cars, you have to sort of

think things couldn't go wrong more often than in a modern cars. And it's okay. It's part of the

game. Have you ever had any interesting situations with like, throttle sticking and stuff like that?

Sadly, yes. Yes. I always feared it's going to happen. I had to thank God for that only once.

Not in the best situation ever, not in the race. I had it at the Milamilia in Italy.

What is even more dangerous? Because you have normal traffic there. And it was in the Bentley

and it was really not very busy road and the throttle was sticking. And yeah, thank God,

I remember what to do. Yeah. And indeed, you just turn it off and yeah, the ignition and not the

ignition. And it was, it was, but even that situation because we had some issues with the

ignition. So the mechanic moved, you know, the switch ignition switch to the other side.

I thought it wasn't the usual way, but thank God, I would have been literally like straight

downhill. Otherwise, and don't want to have it again. I have to admit that is not.

No, not a nice feeling. When the car just pulls itself and you can't do anything.

I can't remember when someone, I think it was my coach at some point in time was like, oh, yeah,

we were talking about this and he'd been racing something and I was like, what did you do?

And until someone says, oh, yeah, you just turn off the ignition, you probably don't necessarily

think like if you've never, if that thought process has never gone through your head and no

one has ever said turn off the ignition, I don't think I would immediately think of turning off

the ignition. I'm like, I'm going to pull the press the brakes, pull the hammer, like all this

stuff. They're like, yeah, turn the car off like now fast, and then you're okay.

It's, I think, surprising. Maybe you would have done it, right?

Yeah, maybe, yeah.

And so it's an interesting thing. I was surprised by myself, you know, I was proud of myself.

Yeah, that's the right thing.

Didn't die.

But maybe I told myself so many times what to do in case this happens. Also,

thank racing, you should should not know that's funny enough to split my brain and,

you know, the panic came afterwards. Honestly, it was all fine. I knew sort of what to do

straight away and, and try to avoid the cars hitting them because the car was so far so awesome.

But afterwards, if, you know, when I stopped the car and ignition was off, I think then the panic

came and I was like, oh my God, which just happened.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You deal with whatever it is, whatever the situation, you deal with it,

and then you stop and go, that was really close.

That was close. Yeah.

It's like with accidents, isn't it? Car accidents and especially in race, in racing,

the panic comes afterwards. Like, you're okay over them five minutes later and you were shaking.

So I think it's similar, similar to this.

Yeah, I had a moment, I'll be interested on your thoughts on this recently. I was driving

someone else's car on track and it turned out, and I've learned a lesson from this, which is

check brake bias, just check it yourself. Don't assume someone else has got it right.

Anyway, I absolutely monstered the brakes going into this corner at Donnington and

just full lock the rears, big spin. The first thought was, I'm going to have to give this guy

a lot of money for his car. The first thought was like, this is going to be a big bill,

and then you're dealing with all the stuff and you're like, got the clutch down and whatever,

and then you realize, okay, we're not actually going to hit anything. Perfect.

Amazing. And then you sort of think about all the other stuff, but it's really funny that

the thought that comes into your head straight away, I think is like,

am I going to die? No, I'm not going to die. Then like, is this going to be a really big bill?

That seems to have a ghost in my head. Exactly. It is absolutely the process

happening in the brake. Yes, it is. Oh my goodness. Is it going to be bad? Yeah. I'm also always like,

I always think first thing in history, I want to save the car. So I never go into situations

because they are for me like my babies. I don't want to do any harm. So always the thing about

the car, this is not worded. And when you say for the situations, I have it funny enough

regularly and getting better, but still remind yourself. So when you do a driver change, you

stop and you have like two minutes stop and then you carry on, you have to pump the brake

pedal, right? Because we don't have the pressure. So, and when it's the heat of the driver change,

right? And I got literally this weekend again. And yeah, so I went spa and you go straight on the

camel straight from, you know, it's a good speed in the end. And it's been absolutely raining

kids of dogs. And I literally got there where I should start, right? And it's nothing. It's just

like empty. And I knew exactly what happened. I've forgotten it. And I was, I never pumped

the pedal in brake pedals as quick as that. And I was thinking, Jesus, that was again classic,

like very blunt moment. I actually know I should know that. But how scared you are in that moment,

right? Yeah, it's all just so many times. And so many times I'm able to forget it. And as you said,

oh my God, this is going to be expensive. It's you think you're going to crash and die.

Yeah, you're going to get thrown from the car. That's it. It's the moment

you put an input in a car, and it does something completely different to what you're expecting.

Oops. Yeah, not not. But look, we we all do it. Also for that is gives you the kick,

the adrenaline and everything. And you get out of the car and you're buzzing and and I always say

you can't replace it with anything else. For me, personally, there's no other kick

of this kind with other sport or whatever, which gives racers like you and me. And it's addictive.

It's highly addictive. Yeah. And so you've done also done a lot of like big road trips and stuff

like that in classics and things. What have been the funnest, most interesting? What ones have you

done? Oh, I started a little bit like driving rallying tours that was begin as I told them to

begin what I was doing like flying Scotsman and all these sort of classical rallies. That is fun.

That is not serious. You have these irregularities, which are boring for me. But I done last year

recently, the Beijing to Paris rally race, however you call it, which is seriously extraordinary. So

that is that got on top of my list of, you know, road trips. And it's difficult to talk,

because it is the most demanding and longest competition rally you can do. And it takes

five weeks driving. And you go through highs and lows, no supporting is allowed. What is a challenge

on top? And I was doing with a very good friend of mine who is a racer, but never did rally of

this kind. So we had this element to that, okay, let's see how he's getting on and coping with it.

And so yeah, I had to learn how to sort of a little bit work with the car, you know,

because we had to fix it ourselves, or at least every day checks and wheels off and these and

that nuts. So interesting after so many years, I had to get 30. And clearly, it's, it's crazy,

right? You're crossing China and all these countries and you see, you see things you haven't

seen before. And most likely, you're not going to see any soon. And you have these daily dramas,

whatever that is, right? So what were some of the bigger dramas? Well, the bigger dramas,

you can imagine the roads. I mean, the organizer definitely didn't have a purpose. They haven't

chosen the best roads for us. You're not driving highway, right? You sort of majority

of the roads are off road. So, you know, I mean, you lose your shock absorbers quickly.

So all of us, we had the same sort of issues. And it's the amazing dust which you have there. So

just surviving in the car, you know what I mean? You're 40 degrees, you have dust, which you can't

breathe properly, and you can't see anything. You have construction Chinese trucks, you have to deal

with it, right? You almost think you're going to die every minute. And clearly, you stay one week in

intent and camp. So it's the endurance. So I personally love endurance. And this was endurance

like, wow, as it's best. So you do it day by day for five weeks, and that you have to feel the

good spirits. You really have to keep, you know, your, your, you know, good spirits and still

enthusiasm until the very last day. And obviously, we had very big highs and lows, right? We had not

so much experience. We rented a car of pro drive, which was really great. And we did very well. So

our result was for four weeks, what we didn't expect. And the pressure came, obviously the pressure

came. And that is when you start to do mistakes. And, you know, one day we literally stayed with

with no damn prison and things. So, you know, France flew, our good friends flew from

Netherlands to UK, collect them, you know, the new ones, the shocks, and flew to Georgia to the

village, literally in the middle of the night. And handed them over to concierge of the hotel,

the main hotel we were staying. And yeah, I never actually met our friend because it was only hand

over and he flew back again eight hours. I don't know how far that was. So, so and you have to

organize yourself. You have your satellite phone, you have your phone, which hopefully works. And so

you are, it's a mix between driving endurance, being your own manager, your mechanic, you still

have to stay France, clearly, you fall out on a daily basis. We did. So it's really something,

something out of different world, I say this, this trip or was.

Was there a certain time in, when you just started to like, the team sort of came together,

you know, in the car of like, this is what we're doing, this is where we're at. Like, you know,

you find your level, presumably after a certain, you've got ups and downs and whatever. But as

like a team, was there a certain map time in where you were like, oh no, we're, we're sort of in this,

we're doing this now. Yeah, it took us some time because we've never done any rally together.

So we spend so much time in the paddock and racing together against each other, whatever.

This is a different gig. You are 24 seven, actually, together. And there's no way out.

You can sort of set off, you know, your car driver, driver, we were swapping driving,

co-driving, but it's not going to help. So you have to get on. So it took us, I would say,

the first week was very challenging because it's just a system who is doing what? Yeah.

And who is the boss in the car and accepting it other way around? Yeah, not easy. And obviously,

it was very difficult because the beginning and the big Chinese cities, right? You start in

pretty much Beijing, and you go to these huge cities without no navigation, if you want. And,

you know, we have a roadbook. And that's the easiest thing ever to get lost in a 20 million

city. And there's no space to stop and just, okay, let's regroup and do it again. You have to sort

of keep the nerves. What we did and didn't. I would say after seven days, after the first week,

we feel like, okay, now we sort of know how this works. And obviously had our moments, big

moments falling out. But there's more nerves and being tired, exhausted. That is when you start to

be on the edge. But we did so well in the results. So there was what I put us together. It was like,

okay, let's do it. Let's really, let's try it. You know, I reduced myself for one beer a day. I

was like, I'm drinking. I'm taking this seriously. I was so on it. Both of us. And in the end,

honestly, in the last week, it was difficult, very difficult, but in terms of circumstances,

what was happening with the car. And we've been already a team which grown and, you know,

I could have done it for next week. We got to Paris, it was emotional and we arrived and,

you know, unfortunately, you know, the great podium result we lost due to issues with car,

accepted it and actually was sad when we arrived. You know, as a team, we knew what we're doing and

we could do this for next week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of the logistics of an event like that,

do you get your car to the start and then they've planned all the stops or do you have to plan

the stops as you go? How does that all work? Well, in the morning, you set off, you have no

lunch stop, you have to look what you, how you sort of, you know, where you stop, where you eat.

It's great for losing weight. Brilliant, right? Because the heat and

no food you can imagine in China, you rather sometimes don't need the need. And then obviously,

you know, you have to plan your fuel a little bit. So that is, that is something that keeps you

busy quite a lot. You have to, you know, do your countings. And you have stops where you have to

stop for checks, route check. So it means that you really go the route you're supposed to.

You have speed tests, special stages like rally stages. You have average speed stages,

circuits in between. So you pretty much stop when the organizer tells you to stop. But otherwise,

when you have to time, which you absolutely never have, you pretty much offer you to do what you

want. But it was so, it's tight, the schedule is very tight. So you mostly are chasing the time

because it's on the clock, you have to appear in a certain minute somewhere. And wow, yeah,

you're not bored. It's quite a full rally. Yeah. And are they, are they chosen like you're all

staying in this hotel tonight, this hotel tomorrow, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, also the camping

places, everything they do. And then if you say when you have your damper issue, does that throw

you, did you get thrown back off time or you were like, we know we have this issue, we're going to

drive through it and hopefully, you know, meet the parts further down the line. We were lucky.

That was, that was the very difficult thing to accept in the end, because you have to be also

lucky, right? So when you have your technical issues, you, you pray they're going to happen

when you can allow to have a technical issues means you're not going to miss any check in the

special stage, because then you get a full penalty and you know, you get bad points and time,

extra time penalty time, which you don't need. So we had a clutch issues as the very first sort of

problems and they happen in the end of the day was brilliant. So but what you do, you know,

I had to find a workshop in the middle of Turkey in the mountains, and it was 8 p.m. and I go and I

know find that 8 p.m. So it's a challenge. And then we were there and you know, the change,

the change, you know, the components and so on. And it was like 2 a.m. We didn't lose any time.

It was our time. I was sleeping time. But so that was lucky. And we actually were lucky with all

these things, even with the with the damper is, you know, in Georgia, it was just a lucky

circumstances that we could arrive with, you know, quite a hot, you know, a bumpy car, but we made it.

And the problem was then in Greece was literally three days before finish and we were still,

you know, up in the charts and the fuel pump gave up and we stranded. And that was the end of our

hopes for podium. We missed all checks and all, you know, stages and we knew this is it. In three

days, you're not going to make it up again. So, you know, it was easy. Then we just cruise it home

pretty much. Yeah. And you were in a, was it a Mustang? Is that right? Yeah, it was, it was a

Mustang fastback. Very cool machine, prepared by Pro Drive. Actually a prototype, if you want to put

it in this way. And they have racing legends project. So they prepped this car to really

high rally standards, all within regulations, which are allowed. And it's one hell of,

you know, race ballads. So it's cool, cool car. Perfect for that. But obviously, it was a prototype.

So, you know, we were also testing some, some part of it. And yeah, it was good. Lots of space

in the car for very limited luggage, as you can imagine. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was a good,

it was a good car. When you were choosing the car, was there, were you factoring in,

we're going to have to spend some time in, you know, all these different countries and

fixing stuff? Is there a sort of calculation and a thought process around that of like,

this car might be easier to fix than a different type of car or something?

You mean there's a choice at the beginning? Yeah, before you chose to go in a Mustang.

It was a bit of different story, because we actually, sort of story starts way before COVID,

right? And I put the entry for Beijing to Paris, because it was on my bucket list for ages. And I

had it in a Bentley. And then I heard all the stories how dangerous that is to do Beijing to

Paris in a Bentley, albeit the Privo car, they're dangerous open. And so I said, okay, maybe I'm

not doing it. I don't want to wreck my car. You pretty much, you know, do a harm to that.

So then, then COVID came, everything's been postponed, I didn't know what to do. And then

all this aside, with a little good friend of mine, we just put our heads together and said,

okay, let's do it together. And he is good at Porsche 911 S rally car. But the organizers said

they have already enough Porsche's quite a lot. It's very popular cars in it. And yeah, they came,

we're good friends, obviously. And they said, look, but there's this project from Prodrive,

and we're doing it together. So it's a hero era car. And it's absolutely prototype number one,

and we would love to drive with this car. Would that be an option? So it was then a very easy

convince me to do that. And here you go, you know, and we said, let's do it. And tested the car only

once before, once or twice, in Vista heritage, and went actually out with a car we had zero

experience with, well, learning by doing right again. Yeah. How hard can it be? Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it's not difficult to convince you, you want to have fast, but Mustang and the

Beijing to Paris and it'd be yeah. So it was, it was a good, it was a good decision. Yeah. Nice.

And what are your favorite or do you have a favorite sort of events of the year that you

might go to or typically go to? Do you have any particular standouts, whether like,

I know you've been some of the ice driving stuff that looks always quite cool?

Yeah, as a car event, generally you mean. Yeah, I actually, I do, I do love ice driving

on video mode. That's so fun, isn't it? I absolutely love it. I almost, well, I wish,

but I almost do it every year. It's just, it's just the beauty of the nature there,

what it is. Not only the cars I have to admit, I have really big thing for snow and Scandinavia,

it's gorgeous, it's beautiful. And then obviously drive cars there and I love to go there.

Lapland Ice Driving has, I started to go there because you can drive different cars. It's not

only one brand, so you can swap. That's quite fun. Yeah, that's quite fun. I love that bit of rallying

in between. I like the mix of it, you know, not only one thing, not only circuits. So, and it's

a good thing because the big race weekends or meetings are sometimes only once in two years.

So you have your highlight, you're looking forward to. So that's, you know, bit of,

you know, like more than a gentle all rates of racing and rallying together and doing in October,

what is fun and, you know, this comes together, you always think I'm not doing this year so much

and then in the end of the day, I have a full calendar and I think, what happened? Because

I can't resist. I mean, I think it's the same with you and all of us, like, I can resist everything

except temptations and you know, many want to do it, everything. Yeah, you're like, well,

if I can go to that thing, I'm going to go to that thing because it's cool.

It's cool. And I loved it last time, so I can't give a miss. And just watching it in the media

and others are doing it and you didn't because whatsoever. That's a killer. I've had a lot of

that. It's great. And I think you're honestly, in the end of today was wonderful and I love it.

And I embrace it more just to take a car and drive around yourself with no event, just

go out, go to pub around or just half day somewhere. Have a bit of fun.

Right. Well, I normally wrap these up with five questions. My first question,

I feel like we may have already answered is, do you have a most memorable driving trip or journey?

Well, journey would be definitely the Beijing to Paris, I would say, as I said before. Difficult

top. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. If you could only drive one sports car for the rest of your life,

what would it be? Good. 275 GTB Ferrari. That's, yeah, something that does a lot to me.

It's a nice looking thing. And to drive, yeah, what's it like to drive? You've got one, right?

Is that right? Yeah. Different. Dog lag, different kick, different way how you have to drive it. I'm

still learning. It's different how you drive Ferraris. You should drive them. So, yeah,

they like to be raft. They like to be driven properly, not cruising around. They like to be,

yeah. So kind of love it. Purity of motor driving or car driving.

What is the most undervalued car at the moment?

That's a good question. The most undervalued cars. I always say that the race cars from the 90s,

but that has been discovered already. So, yeah, that's too late. But I was a sort of like niche

group. One particular car, I didn't think about one. I think they are some kind of Ferraris.

Everybody discovered that these days. I literally have to think about this is a very, very good

question, which still is this one particular car. Yeah, I'm more thinking of period or brand or

something. I think it will come up. I could imagine it comes up. But you know, the, I think

vector racing, I think, and it's coming a little bit up. And I think this is going to be something

new. All the LMP cars, the E1, which disappeared. And that, I think, will come back and they will

just grow in the valley. That's my opinion. Yeah, it sort of fits with the ability to race some of

this stuff now. And as time goes on, the younger people, and you go, Oh, well, I remember those

racing. If I can drive one of those, that's pretty cool. Exactly. Yeah. What do you think? What's

the most interesting car to you at the moment? What are you googling? What are you looking at?

I'm trying not to because that's the most difficult thing.

Geez, you know, obviously, I fell in love with the fastback. I sort of have it now in my hands.

It's very difficult to give up the car and bring it back and hand over. So I could imagine it,

you know, this green color and, you know, the fastback Steve McQueen sort of situation.

So I think that will happen. I think it's nothing sort of super exciting, but

yeah, definitely. And after this experience, I can see myself. I get that.

Final question. Five car garage, unlimited value.

These are the only five cars you're going to have. So if you've got a drive to work or whatever,

it's got to be in one of these. What are you going to have? Wow, okay. Only five. That's difficult.

Well, it will be Alfa Romeo 80. Always a big dream. That will start with 100%.

It will be Ferrari, Shelby base, iconic, tasty car. You can do so much with it.

I could, I always think Jaguar C type ticks so many boxes as a car you can use. It's not that

sort of race to 50 GTO area, but it's a great car. And then from the new period, okay, that's

yeah, one of would be one of the GT1 cars, but which from particular doesn't matter. I just find

them all cool or Bentley Speed 6 P1. I can't get enough of that car, right? The LMP one,

it looks beautiful. One of the most beautiful LMP cars ever produced. I think I could really

see that in my garage. And do I have something left? Do I have one spot left? Let's say,

I think you may maybe watch your daily. You're going to have to have a daily.

Take a Bentley LMP one. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God, some supercar. What would I like to have a

supercar? I'm not so much into like, I like to sort of, you know, see them drive them from time to

time. It doesn't do as much to me as the others. So I don't know, what would that be?

Really? Honestly, I actually don't know from the newest one I would pick. There would be a blind

pick right now from the new from the daily smile. I don't know. Maybe, geez, you caught me. I have

a ranger over these days, right? I'm driving a drive really boring car on a daily basis. So

it's not exciting, is it? No, but that makes sense. It's got to do a job. I know it is a job

because daily car, you don't get me on that, you know, daily cars from the car, which does the job.

When I have to have a complicated car, be you whatsoever, it might be cool, might be fast,

might be whatsoever, right? And I do have some relatively nice cars, even sports cars. I don't

even take them out sometimes for two years. They're just sitting there. And it's a shame. And

it's not because of mileage, it's because of, you know, it's just too much drama, you know,

just taking it as well. I would always take something more iconic, you know, like Lamborghini,

Nura or something. Well, that's cool, right? That takes the box and, you know, go around.

Yeah, I honestly can't even tell you what I want from the new cars from the sports cars.

There we go. Well, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for the invitation.

Sweet.

How Racing Pre-War Bentleys Changed My Life w. Katarina Kyvalova

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Austin Healey

Jaguar T3

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