I WON A SIM RACE?! Porsche Goals, Wild News, $2M Rally Car & New Year Automotive Chaos | Full Throttle Talk
Full Throttle Talk
I WON A SIM RACE?! Porsche Goals, Wild News, $2M Rally Car & New Year Automotive Chaos | Full Throttle Talk
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Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette is a famous sports car made in America that is known for being fast and stylish. It has been around since the 1950s and is loved by many car enthusiasts. People often talk about it because it's a symbol of American car culture.
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
The Chevrolet Camaro is a popular sports car that has been around since the late 1960s. The 1969 version is famous for its cool design and powerful engine, making it a classic choice for car lovers.
Term
long hood
A 'long hood' is a design feature of some older Porsche cars, especially the 911. It means the front part of the car is longer, which many people find attractive and valuable.
Term
Bring a Trailer
Bring a Trailer is a website where people can buy and sell special cars, especially older or unique ones. It's like an online auction for car lovers.
Term
reserve not met
When something is sold at an auction, the seller has a minimum price they want. If the highest bid is lower than that price, the item doesn't get sold, and we say 'reserve not met.'
Car
Porsche 912
The Porsche 912 is another car from Porsche that is similar to the 911 but was made to be less expensive. It's also popular among car fans.
Car
Porsche Targa
A Targa is a type of Porsche that has a special roof design. It has a removable top section, so you can enjoy the open air while still having a solid back part of the car.
Car
Porsche 356
The Porsche 356 is an early sports car made by Porsche that started production in 1948. It's known for being light and fun to drive, and many people love it because it's one of the first cars made by Porsche. Recently, its value has gone up a lot, which makes it popular among collectors.
Term
four cam car
A 'four cam car' is a type of car that has an engine with four camshafts. This setup helps the engine run better and can make it more powerful.
Term
964
'964' is a name for a specific version of the Porsche 911 that was made in the late 80s and early 90s. It has some new features but still looks like the classic 911 people love.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super-fast version of the regular Porsche 911 sports car, made for people who love to drive on tracks. It has a really powerful engine and special features that help it go fast and handle well. Car fans talk about it because it's one of the best cars for driving excitement.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that has been around since the 1960s and is known for its unique shape and powerful performance. It's loved by many car enthusiasts and is often talked about because of its history and how well it drives. People admire it for being a top-quality car.
Company
BaT
BaT is a website where people can buy and sell classic cars through online auctions. It's known for having a lot of interesting and unique vehicles.
Brand
Talbot
Talbot was a car brand from France that made various types of vehicles. They were popular in the past but are not well-known today.
Car
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS is a special version of the Cayman sports car that is built for performance on the track. It has a more powerful engine and better handling than regular models, making it very exciting to drive.
Term
MSRP
MSRP means the price that the car maker suggests you should pay for a car. It's like a guideline for how much a new car should cost when you buy it.
Term
option package
An option package is a group of extra features you can choose when buying a car. It allows you to customize your car with things like better sound systems or special seats.
Term
front nose lift
A front nose lift is a system that can lift the front of the car higher off the ground. This helps prevent damage when driving over bumps or steep driveways.
Term
ceramic brakes
Ceramic brakes are a type of brake that uses special materials to stop the car. They work better in high-performance situations but can cost a lot more than regular brakes.
Car
Ram 3500
The Ram 3500 is a big pickup truck that is great for towing heavy things and doing tough jobs. It's built to be strong and reliable, which makes it popular for work and play. People talk about it because it can handle a lot of different tasks really well.
Part
carbon buckets
Carbon buckets are special seats made from a lightweight material called carbon fiber. They help keep you secure in your seat while driving fast and make the car lighter.
Term
paint to sample
Paint to sample means you can pick a special color for your car that isn't usually available. It makes your car look unique but doesn't change how it performs.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is a super-fast version of the 911 GT3, made for racing and high-performance driving. It's built to be lightweight and has special features that help it go even faster and handle better on tracks. Car fans love to talk about it because it's one of the best cars for serious driving.
Term
GT silver
GT Silver is a shiny silver color that Porsche offers for its cars. It's a popular choice because it looks very stylish and sporty.
Term
golf blue
Golf Blue is a bright blue color that Porsche offers for its cars. It's a fun and eye-catching choice for people who want their car to stand out.
Term
almost five hundred thousand dollars
When someone says a car sold for almost five hundred thousand dollars, it means that the car is very expensive, usually because it's rare or really special.
Term
Averinting Green
Averinting Green is a color that some Porsche cars, like the 993, can be painted in. It used to be unpopular but is now considered beautiful.
Term
sport buckets
Sport buckets are special car seats that hold you in place better when you're driving fast. They are designed for comfort and support during performance driving.
Term
Alcantara
Alcantara is a soft, suede-like fabric used in car interiors. It's often found in luxury cars because it looks nice and lasts a long time.
Term
livery
Livery is the way a car is painted or decorated, especially in racing. It helps people identify the car and often includes logos and colors that represent sponsors or teams.
Car
Porsche 917
The Porsche 917 is a famous race car that won many races in the 1970s. It's known for its unique look and fast speed, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Car
Porsche Carrera GT
The Porsche Carrera GT is a supercar made by Porsche, famous for its powerful engine and fast performance. It was made in limited numbers, making it very valuable.
Concept
Le Mans
Le Mans is a famous car race in France that lasts for 24 hours. It's one of the most important races in the world.
Car
Porsche 918 Spyder
The Porsche 918 Spyder is a super-fast car that uses both a regular engine and electric power to go really fast. It can even drive on electricity alone for a short distance. People talk about it because it's a special car that shows how fast and efficient hybrid cars can be.
Car
Volkswagen Id Buzz
The Volkswagen ID. Buzz is an electric van that looks like the old VW Microbus but is made with new technology. It's designed to be roomy and useful for families or trips, making it a fun option for electric vehicle lovers. People talk about it because it combines a classic look with modern electric features.
Car
Tesla Model Y
The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV that is known for being roomy and having lots of cool technology. It's popular because it can go a long distance on a single charge and is very safe to drive. People talk about it because it's part of the movement towards electric cars.
Car
Porsche 550
The Porsche 550 Spyder is a small and light sports car from the 1950s that was famous for racing. It's known for its simple design and has a cool history, including being driven by famous people like James Dean. People talk about it because it's an important part of Porsche's racing story.
Car
Porsche 911 Turbo S
The Porsche 911 Turbo S is the fastest and most powerful version of the 911 sports car, featuring a turbo engine that makes it super quick. It's also very luxurious inside, which makes it a favorite among car lovers. People talk about it because it's one of the best sports cars you can buy.
Car
Porsche 944
Car
Lamborghini Countach
The Lamborghini Countach is a famous supercar made between the 1970s and early 1990s, known for its eye-catching design and speed. It's considered one of the coolest cars ever and is loved by car fans. People talk about it because it represents a special time in car history.
Car
Acura Integra
The Acura Integra Coupe is a small car that was popular in the 1980s and 1990s, known for being fun to drive and reliable. Many people like it because it's affordable and can be customized to make it even cooler. Car fans often talk about it because it has a special place in car culture.
Car
Porsche 928
The Porsche 928 is a stylish sports car made by Porsche from the late 1970s to the mid-1990s, known for having its engine in the front instead of the back. It was designed to be comfortable and fast, and people talk about it because it's different from the more famous 911 model.
Car
Alfa Romeo Julia
The Alfa Romeo Giulia is a stylish small luxury car from Italy that is fun to drive. It's known for looking good and performing well, which makes it different from other luxury cars. People talk about it because it combines sporty driving with elegance.
Car
Audi RS4 Avant
The Audi RS4 Avant is a fast and powerful station wagon that offers a lot of space while still being fun to drive. It's known for its strong engine and sporty features, making it a favorite among people who want both practicality and speed in one car. Car fans often talk about it because it does both jobs really well.
Car
Audi RS6 Avant
The Audi RS6 Avant is a fast and powerful station wagon that offers lots of space for passengers and cargo while still being fun to drive. It's known for its strong engine and all-wheel drive, making it great for different driving conditions. People talk about it because it combines the best of both worlds: practicality and speed.
Car
BMW M4
The BMW M4 is a fast and sporty version of the BMW 4 Series car, designed for people who enjoy driving. It has a powerful engine and looks really cool, making it fun to drive while still being comfortable. Car enthusiasts often talk about it because it stands out in the sports car world.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a fast and powerful version of the regular BMW 5 Series car, designed for people who want a sporty driving experience. It's known for being comfortable while still being really fun to drive. Car enthusiasts often talk about it because it mixes luxury with speed.
Car
Ferrari 296 GTB
The Ferrari 296 GTB is a new sports car that uses both a gas engine and electric power to go really fast. It's designed to be both powerful and efficient, showing how Ferrari is moving towards new technology. People talk about it because it's a blend of tradition and modern innovation in sports cars.
LIVE
We'll go, so, so when's the best time for me to sell my car?
I assume like now is probably not.
Maybe I wait till the spring or summer because I have a cab or whatever.
And since we started this business, I remember the very beginning.
We started this business in the early 2000s.
My dad was retired.
We came in and he's like, oh, we'll just, you know, no one's going to be doing
stuff this week.
We'll just stop working between Christmas and New Year's and then take
week or two weeks off.
And we, after the first year, we're like, oh, we can't do that again.
And since then, um, somewhere around Thanksgiving, all the way through the
spring, it is generally the busiest time.
And if I had to pick a time where it got less busy would be middle summer.
And then in the fall, it seemed like everyone wants to sell their car.
Like this, it's like this mass exodus.
So my theory on this, which is anecdotal, is the people who buy these cars are
professionals and they work on a calendar year.
And during the holidays, it's one of the few times that the year is done.
They know what they made.
They're, they're, they're, they have time off.
They're with the family.
They're not really going anywhere.
A lot of them were in winter states.
They're kind of got cabin fever.
They're sort of by, by like two days after Christmas, they're done with their
family.
They're hiding out online, looking at cars and they're planning what they're
going to be driving when things thaw out.
And then that fervor just keeps going until, and then in the summertime,
they're busy with their family doing family trips.
And then in the fall comes around, they go, Oh crap, I went another year
and I didn't drive that car.
I better get rid of it.
And it just, that's, I don't know, Dave, you tell me if I'm wrong.
That's what I, Oh no, that's, that's exactly.
I mean, I've been tracking it now for about, you know, four or five years.
And there's a few little dips during the year that where you get a little dip,
but this month has not been a dip.
It certainly as it relates to selling cars, I would agree.
I think it's most of the time it's peep.
I wouldn't even give them two days.
I think they're done in two hours with Christmas and now they're like looking
at stuff and people are buying this time of year.
That's what you're seeing.
And oh yeah, absolutely.
Well, I mean, it's so it's people buying themselves Christmas presents giving
themselves their own bonuses.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, they're not buying for anyone else.
They're buying for themselves for sure.
Wouldn't that be nice?
Oh man, my wife so wants a short wheelbase this year.
She does, right?
Mine too.
I'm going to get it for her.
Damn it.
We're bastards if we don't buy our wives new Porsches.
Yeah, here's a bowling ball and iron and a short wheelbase.
Exactly.
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horse power meets
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So I'm at it, just out of curiosity, Dave, you said that you've been tracking this.
And I think Paul, you said the same thing, the nature of the market.
And it does make sense.
Like when kids go back to school, um, people are occupied.
When summer vacations happen, people are occupied.
You know, so those kind of fall the same patterns of real estate sales, frankly.
Uh, but out of curiosity, do you see a unusual uptick this time of year?
Cause Paul, when we started the show, almost a year ago, right?
We were talking about a lot of uncertainty that was in the marketplace.
And we were seeing it in some of the no sales that were happening
on all the auction sites.
And I'd see the exact hop, exact opposite happening now.
Do you guys sense that there's more optimism going into the new year?
And do you think that's one of the reasons why you guys are seeing more sales?
I mean, definitely.
I think this, this season is definitely more robust than a year ago, but still
even a year ago, when the things were looking a little more uncertain and a
little more volatile, the winter into spring was still more robust than the late
summer into fall, which seems to be the pattern.
It's just a matter of what degree right now.
And Dave, we often, you know, before we start a show, Dave and I are talking about
it's, it's like, I feel like we're going into, like, where people are just
hoarding and trying to buy stuff, you know, whatever that, uh, the law of scarcity is.
That's fascinating.
So you're saying you're seeing buyers that are buying with the intention of
keeping and rebuild.
So do you think this could be the return of our coveted long hood portion of
values and three 56 values?
You think that ship is saying that's for sure.
Yeah, it's so sad.
I was, I was, um, hired by a client of mine who's been looking for, uh, an
early car, uh, or he's kind of all over the place.
And he had me look at a, I don't know if you saw him bring a trailer.
It didn't sell a few days a week ago.
It was a Bahia red 73 S really nice.
Like, like I was trying to tell him a little trick, you know, the first thing
I do when I want to quickly look at a car, if you just look at that front, we
talked about for that front shot.
And that is one of the hardest places.
And Dave, you could attest this, getting the hood to line up with the
fenders, the bumper, the horn grills tend to kind of be tilted in.
So when you see, when I see that whole front shot, like tidy, I'm like, huh,
this could be a good car.
And I think that car was really good.
And I was trying to explain to him because he wanted no value.
I think they want 200 grand.
I think it hammered for 158, but didn't sell reserve, not met.
And I think the problem was Bahia red, like, and it's sort of a shame.
And, and, and then pretty common color, though, too.
Right.
For that, for a 73 S, it doesn't even matter whether it's common or not.
Long hood cars, nine, 12s, or, or for, for instance, 73 and older
long hoods, short wheel base, nine, 12s, three, 56s.
I would say red and white are the least popular colors.
And when you're talking about 150 to $200,000 car, that guy will pay 10 to
20, 30, 40% more for something that it's pretty rad, like a blue, orange, green.
And going back to your question about the long hood, another friend of mine
called me wants to, his name's calling.
He wants to sell us 67, 9, 12.
He wants to get a Targa.
He was looking at 80s, G body cars, SCs and stuff like that, Targas.
And I'm like, you love your 67, 9, 12.
Why don't you look at a long hood Targa?
And so I just walked him through, bring a trailer of the last like 20
long hood Targas, just drivers, nice drivers.
And he was shocked that they're like 70, 80 grand.
I agree completely.
I was wondering that too.
Our fricking G body now is worth more than a fricking F body.
And the F bodies way rare and frankly, a lot more enjoyable, dare I say,
because it's lighter, I don't get it.
I don't get it either.
And the sad thing is to your point, I don't think that's coming back.
If we base it on history.
If you look at what happened to the 356 market, it exploded in 2012.
2016 at the end, it just fell off a cliff.
And then outside of the top grade collectibles, anything else just doesn't do
well, even your beloved four cam cars, the ones that you saw that were 400,000,
they were just OK.
And if someone's going to buy a four cam car, they're going to buy something
great, not just OK.
And that market's tiny.
So it's a weird market.
I think my thing is buy something no one else is looking at.
I and my thesis, I'm going to.
It'll be interesting to see if I'm right.
I'll just leave it at that.
I think these old nine elevens have got such an international following
that breaks through the normal demographic age barriers
that were in a short period of time before the longhood start going up in value again.
That's personally, that's what I think.
And as the millennial starts rods, yeah, exactly.
And as the millennial start to come in as is and cool, cold color cars,
I bet you were going to see a resurgence in this longhood s values
or longhood, you know, early nine eleven, I would be shocked if that wasn't true.
Because as more people experience these cars,
they're going to have the same epiphany that I did.
Why the hell is my paying this much money for a late 80s car that's kind of heavy?
And I mean, everyone loves nine sixty fours.
You guys have all driven on my own to nine sixty four target.
I didn't really like it.
I thought it was too much of a GT car.
I thought I didn't think it was very freaking that much fun to drive.
It was over boosted power steering, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then you get into an older car.
It's so amazing.
I it's the whole Instagram effect, right?
That's I mean, that's what do you think of Dave as as we're yammering about?
No, I mean, I think that if you take one of these older cars
and you do a bunch of suspension upgrades to it and get it tight
and get it nice and get a good decent, you know, you don't even have to do much
power wise, obviously, get out there.
Gorgeous. I just like the lines of these cars much better.
Like everybody does the impact bumper cars, but a lot of them are rusty.
So that's a problem.
So people think they're going to have to spend a lot of money to get these cars.
Nice. But if you can find a good, you know, a good example of one
like good old Albert here behind me, they're gorgeous.
I mean, they're just beautiful cars.
They're great cars to look at. They're fun.
But they they can be a little loose and sloppy
if you don't get them tightened up and do good suspension upgrades.
Sure. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Well, let's go on to automotive news.
It's so funny that I have to think that there's a.
Well, we didn't talk about what you did in cars this week.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I skipped it.
Yes, you get to follow them.
You're your own outline here, Tim.
And we got to get you to follow it.
Paul made the outline this week.
That's really big. Oh, I did.
OK, well, that explains everything.
All right. What did you do in cars this week, Mr. Kramer?
Well, I drove my GT3, as you can see,
and I've driven it many times before I drove it up to Newcombe's Ranch
two weeks ago and before all the chaos has broken out,
which I'll talk about in the news.
And yes, it's really one of my favorite experiences.
I've driven that. I've had that car for now coming on five years.
I've put almost 15,000 miles on it,
exclusively driving just on Fridays to Newcombe's Ranch.
It literally is like self-driving.
It knows the route.
It is it is probably my favorite car for that road.
But I have not done it since the surgery.
It is that and my green 911 are probably the most difficult
to safely operate a clutch.
And I will say I did cheat because I went up the back way
and the back way you could pretty much stay in third gear the entire way.
This is the back way through right way.
And by the way, it's like this for 40 miles.
No one far is it from from your place to Newcombe's.
So so it's if I go the back way,
it's round trip faster than 11.
Two hundred and eleven miles for round round trip.
Two hundred and eleven round trip to eleven miles.
But here's the thing is to get to the start of the fun stuff going through
rightward, which is off Cajun Pass, the 15 to get there or to get to
the start through La Canyada or Sunland the other way through L.A.
It's the exact same amount of time because when I'm going against traffic,
when I'm going with traffic and when I get to rightward,
I've got like 42 miles of this until if you're if you're listening,
there's a video playing of me driving the back way from rightward,
you know, over the hill, 42 miles to know to get to Newcombe's ranch.
If I go the other way, it's 28 miles.
So the problem with this road is, and you'll see in the news,
as soon as there's a storm, it pretty much closes the road down for the season
because the Caltrans district that handles it and it's it divides
right in the middle of Angel's Crest, the Caltrans district that handles
that the part of it from rightward, their main priority is Big Bear
Arrowhead, which obviously has a much bigger impact
because of residential and skis skiing.
So they just literally ignore this, which is this road has been closed
for two and a half years because it just gets underkept.
And ironically, the day it opened was the day I got out of the hospital
and I had been itching to drive it.
I've now driven it four or five times and as of Christmas Day,
it is it is not only closed for the season, it is closed, closed.
And I'll talk about it in the news.
But it was just a milestone to be able to drive.
Well, there's nobody on the road when you are on the road.
What a beautiful scene that was.
That was gorgeous.
How not when I California when I do that road, that's the beauty of that road.
Now, like anything that's great, there's always a compromise, right?
Nothing is just truly great.
So the downside about this is because there's no one on the road,
it doesn't get kept up as much and you have to be so vigilant
because there are insane boulders that are that will see the see the hillside.
It is just, you know, loose shale.
So I have now had four or five flats going that way.
Early on in the early 2000s, I ran over rock.
Can you see the signs as falling rock?
I actually saw rocks falling and drove right over them and it deployed airbags
and it was a night.
Oh, Jesus, it was a nightmare.
So it is a dangerous road and you have to be cautious.
But you can, you know, the neat thing is you're already at altitude
and it's just it's like an autocross.
You're just that altitude left, right?
But anywhere along the centerline and the edge, there's just rocks hiding.
You can't wear sunglasses.
You can't deal with shadows.
So have you ever driven this, Tim, when you're out here?
I have. And at the start of it, it's really funny.
If I remember correctly, you just basically are driving in a normal
neighborhood and then you go up a hill.
That's is that am I remembering the right one?
I took our lotus.
That's kind of the front way in, right?
I think that's the front way through La Cagnada.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, you have to go on the shell station there where you start at the bottom.
Right.
The back way you go through right wood, which feels like a big bear town,
feels like a ski town, little tiny, tiny nice.
Yeah. And it's beautiful.
That's so the right wood part.
That's where Rod Emory moved his entire business,
or it's in the process of being moved there, which this is going to be
his backyard for testing, which is perfect, phenomenal.
Yeah. Cool.
Well, congratulations on multiple fronts on that one.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a huge accomplishment.
I imagine after your ordeals this past 12 months, you basically are
when you're driving, especially your GT3, that's got to feel like
a billion times more special than it ever has been.
It did.
It was and by the time I was done, because I had plans,
I'm going to just drive it all weekend.
By the time I got home, I was like done.
I was like, get in my automatic again.
But it was worth it.
It was really, really fun.
Dave, what did you do this week?
Well, yeah, obviously Christmas, not a lot of like actually out and about stuff,
but I did get this car behind me, this beautiful Talbot Yellow 9-11 SC
up on BAT this week.
And it's there right now, actually.
I think we're on the third day of the auction and it's doing really well.
Typical comments.
I mean, the typical stuff that we've been talking about
when posting a car on bring a trailer in terms of this sort of,
you know, there's questions that are coming from, you know, commenters
that have no intention of bidding on the car.
Instead, they want to talk about this or that or picture number 30.
Looks like this.
What's going on here?
But this is such a terrific car.
The color is fantastic.
I think this one's going to do well.
It closes next Monday, I think.
So I expect this car is going to do pretty well.
That would be a great color.
That makes such a nice car for somebody.
It's a fun sports car for the weekend, but also could be somebody's daily
if they lived in the right environment.
What a wonderful little, you know, and the color is beautiful.
The color is killer.
And that's what's going to help pop this car for sure.
The color is just going to it's a rare color for sure.
And the parlance of UTA's rainbow, it's a four bucket out of five bucket
in terms of color rarity on a 70s and C.
So it's a great color, very much like speed yellow.
You know, got a lot of orange in it.
It's for people that don't like yellow cars, for some reason, this particular yellow.
People seem to gravitate to because I think it's got enough orange in it or whatever.
It just looks it's just a great color.
Yeah, I like it.
It is.
And you ever had any Talbot's that went through your hands?
Any Talbot yellow cars?
Yeah, Talbot yellow, Sahara beige kind of looks similar.
There's this whole vibe just really quick.
And Tim, I don't know if you are familiar with Renbo, R-E-N-N-A-O-W.
Do you guys like that site?
I don't like it or use it.
Those are two different things.
It's just cringy.
So sorry, I digress.
There's no, don't don't don't digress, I'm on the cusp of a rant.
I was just thinking the data and we I mentioned in the WhatsApp when I quoted
Doug DeMiro's thing and just some of the things I really hate in the Porsche
world because it just takes it away from why we like these cars, which is
because they are amazing to drive.
They're not Porsches are not the most beautiful cars.
They're totally form falls, function utilitarian, kind of actually awkward and
weird and sort of beetle like, but we love them because once you've driven
and especially an air-cooled Porsche, you're like, your minds, if you really
like to drive, your mind's blown.
It's there is nothing comparable that's in its contemporary that even comes
close to this unique special experience.
Not even contemporary, dude.
And what nothing especially newer comes even closer.
Right.
There's no and and I know people love to hate it.
And I think they hate it because they're so damn good.
But the problem I have is when they start talking about, hey, I've got a
four-bucket paying car.
Sorry, Dave.
I mean, when you're marketing a car, hey, leaning four buckets, four
buckets, God love him.
He like, or it's a five bucket.
And in when I hear this, I can walk you through cars and coffee and I could
hear it in the background and I just want to fucking scream.
Sorry.
I just hear nice spec and I'm like, I throw up a little in my mouth.
It is.
It's like, oh, good for you.
You ordered a bunch of options.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
All right.
So I shared with you guys what I I don't know whether I loved it or I hated it
or I just didn't, you know, to think that GT four RS that was out at the Porsche
dealer, my God, Washington.
And listen, so I was wanting to load the picture so I can share it on our show
today and gone.
The goal.
I know I was I was trying to show someone else and ask them they worked in the
Porsche dealership and say, Hey, what do you guys do with this?
Like going, following up with Dave, like you have to put a deposit.
P nine grand with all this underwashed stuff.
And did you did you guys save that picture?
I can't find it.
I can't find it either.
The interior.
The internet probably came and sucked it away.
It, you know what it looked like when the first time I saw it is if you go to
Havasu in the 80s and that's what your your jet boat looks like.
Your jet skis, your jet skis and your matching jet boat.
And your color.
It was it was like lime green and like sky blue.
Murph blue, Smurf blue, Smurf blue.
Oh my God, it was, I wish we could.
So if anyone is on YouTube or anywhere, share that picture with us so we can put
it in our newsletter, because they scraped that shit.
I couldn't even find it on Instagram.
So did that mean that they sold it?
No, I think they're probably running in an embarrassment where they're hiding.
So it's 359 grand for a GT four RS.
All right.
So there's that.
But then what the hell?
Who that what's the use case?
Who's what's that thing worth?
It ain't worth 359 grand.
Well, what's so what's a normal optioned silver, not crazy GT four RS?
Like I saw probably 80, 190.
Probably a OK.
And so they're asking for 60 grand more for just three, five, nine Kramer.
Oh, shit, double, double.
So that's what I saw it listed for, right?
Or someone is just saying that's what it was listed for.
But that's the number that I last saw associated with that really special spec
car. But what I was shocked by, did you, did you see David?
Did you see this one?
The one I'm talking about?
All right.
How, yeah, how the heck did they get Porsche agree to do that?
And what size deposit you were thinking five grand?
Did the dealership get out of that customer typically is?
I mean, it's typically five grand, but then you can still walk away from the car at
that point.
Yeah, I think it's got to be something more severe.
Put it this way, if any of the listeners out there work on the inside of this and
know if you order something really nutty that Porsche is raising their eyebrow on.
But going back, I don't really like to quote someone, but I think I post it.
And I found the post, the quote, it was from Doug Dumiro in the recent podcast.
And he goes, there's a large contingent of Porsche enthusiasts who care more about
their spec than the driving experience of their car.
And I think it's probably the single most pathetic thing that goes on in the
automotive industry today.
And like, I was listening to that.
I'm in my office and I'm like, yes.
Well, why, why do you guys, why do you guys feel that way?
You said, because they're moving away from the drive.
It's a new Porsche buyer versus the old Porsche buyer and seeing the, and seeing
the transference from that new mindset to the old mindset or old mindset to the
new mindset is painful for us old parts.
I mean, that's really the takeaway.
Yeah, it is to some degree.
And really the first taste I had of that.
And I remember distinctly as we got a, this is in 2019, we got a 2018 GT3 touring.
And I'm listing it and it was like a thousand miles and it was stripper model.
I think the base MSRP on that car was like 150, 155.
And this was like a one, this was like a 161, like really stripped white, nothing fancy.
Rubber dash.
And I start listing it.
Every question is, what's the MSRP?
Yep.
And I go, like, I listed the options.
I didn't put the MSRP.
I said, here's the three options it got.
You know, and, and everyone's like, what's the MSRP?
And they would base their purchase on not what the car was, but what the MSRP was.
I'm like, this is nutty.
Because they want to know how much above the original MSRP they're paying in premium, right?
If you were going to list a car and you're just looking at that kind of going, OK, here's
the option package that this guy took.
He took Wysock.
He took this and this and they know that Wysock's 35 grand and the ceramic brakes are another 10.
Let's cut through it.
OK, so David, you agonize specking your, which I think is a perfect speck because I love GT
Silver GT3RS, your brand new one that you got this year.
Congratulations to you.
That is what was amazing.
You could have gone batshit crazy.
There you go.
You could have added a whole bunch of doodads and whatnot on it.
And I'm sure you were tempted to, you know, and you didn't.
So I had two cars, but in the Porsche world, unlike the Ferrari world or anybody else,
you oftentimes do make the car more valuable at a multiple, greater than what the option
cost. And I know that's not true with everything, leather covered fuse box, for example.
But for the most part, you get paid for spending more on a new special Porsche like that.
Discuss.
I think there are certain options that definitely pay off, i.e.
I didn't opt to have the leather wrapped AC vent above the shift knob.
I mean, that just to me was like stupid.
Why am I going to do that?
This isn't going to help the car drive at all.
I'm out.
I opted for the.
No, no leather wrap, no leather wrap visors.
What am I doing here?
I don't know.
You're shutting off your mic.
I think you're going away in protest or something.
But, you know, there are certain options that you should have.
I, you know, I opted for the fire extinguisher.
I opted, obviously, the front nose lift.
You got to have some of those things.
And those are expensive things, $3,500 for the front nose lift, the ceramic brakes,
which for me, do I really need the ceramic brakes?
Hell no, because I'm not going to beat this thing at the track or do anything.
But people down line feel that they want to have that, which is kind of gets into that.
What's the spec?
Oh, nice spec, man.
And most times when they throw that out, Paul, they don't even know what the
damn spec is.
They're just looking at the car.
Well, let's go down.
You don't know what's underneath it.
Well, let's go down.
What are the options that you can get on a new car that actually pay you back if
not increase that you can make money on?
I'm sorry.
This is Paul's, you know, hated topic.
But I know what it is.
Yeah, it is anything that anything that adds to the performance like ceramic
brakes, carbon buckets.
I mean, I would say with GT three is not the RS is ceramic brakes, carbon
buckets, paint to sample.
And here's the other sample doesn't help the performance at all.
No, no, but this is the one cosmetic.
And the other thing that literally makes it's almost a point where you have to
pay the money to add it in afterwards.
If you don't, if you have a GT three with an out front axle lift, it will cost
you twice as much than in just to go put it in.
I don't.
Is it like a four thousand dollar option or something for five thousand thirty five
hundred bucks?
And I think it's like double that to go put it in afterwards.
But when I think about it, when I go to bat and I go to some of these other
auction sites and I see some of these really ridiculously specked out
Sunderwood, I always say it wrong.
Sorry, that was good.
I did learn with that net and that like small river or creek or something.
White river, I mean, special wishes, Tim, special wishes.
That's what I think.
No, no, no, I'm thinking of White Sock.
White Sock actually means something in German.
That's nothing to it.
Anyway, the name of the town.
Yeah, thank you.
Well, OK, but the town runs through it.
Thank you. All right.
But anyway, when I see, OK, so these crazy option, like open checkbook,
blah, blah, blah, blah, they are still selling for an enormous amount
over what the owner paid for them.
So there is a logic to the specking going crazy on these newer cars
if you give a shit about making money.
So that's my point.
And I and I car behind me.
Yeah, I'll talk about this later.
But this is effectively it's a very similar spec to my car.
But this car just sold for massive money.
It's a golf blue GT3 RS.
And it just sold for a ton of money.
And I know it's well optioned and whatnot.
What is it for three four fifty nine.
A tiny and then.
Yeah, almost that's a 24 as well.
It's not even a brand new one for Dave.
I had a question because I've been watching those.
There was a there was a green one that sold for like three eighty.
I saw that. Yeah.
When you ordered yours, did you want GT silver so bad?
Or were you open to getting painted sample or could you?
Because my first thought with your car is you obviously like golf blue.
Why didn't you order paint to sample golf blue, which would have been
what, thousands of more?
Yeah, it wasn't the money.
I would have done it in a heartbeat if I could.
But because of where my build was at the end of the cycle
as a twenty five.
And it was a October delivery that I could not get paint to sample.
I only had six colors I could choose from two silvers and a gray
plus red, white and black.
So I took the GT silver.
Those were my only options.
OK, I like the GT silver.
I mean, I think it's a great color.
I would have done a paint to sample color, though, for sure.
Well, let's make a half step back just so we can close the loop
because you guys love changing the topic.
And I just want to just I want to clarify this.
I know I'm not the only one out there that wants this curious about this.
So your car, which is very similar to the golf blue car, had you done golf blue?
Could you have done PTS?
It would have cost you an additional how much more would I think it's almost 20 now?
I think it's like 18 something now is paint to sample.
All right.
So you're all in before taxes and Mickey Mouse on that car.
Had it been, you know, paint to sample would have been how much?
Three thirty ish, three thirty five, something like that.
And in that car, the blue one just sold for almost five hundred thousand dollars.
Oh, yeah, for I want to say four fifty eight.
And it wasn't that it was something like that.
OK, I'm looking at really quick on GT, three R.S. is just by the way hundred thousand more.
So what? So right now, if you were to put your car for sale, realistically,
what's it worth over what you paid?
I'm looking for it right now.
I'm bringing a trailer, but Dave probably knows better.
He said forty nine.
I'm not sure if I know, honestly, because I think it just depends on the color.
Come back miles, all that kind of stuff.
But I would hope.
Yeah, here's a black one with red wheels and it sold for three ninety six in November.
Here's these are all white socks, black.
That's that's not a R.S.
Probably seventy five or eighty above stickers.
What I would say is probably where the market tends to be right now,
where it likes to be wants to be on yours and on.
Yeah, I mean, I would think mine is in the fours, you know, low fours,
maybe, you know, maybe four, maybe three ninety seven, something like that.
I don't know.
It's hard for me to say, and I'm not even thinking about that right now,
because I just want to drive and enjoy it.
And whatever it falls out to be a year from now or 18 months from now, we'll see.
Well, I mean, I'm not going to lose, you know, you're not going to lose.
So Kramer, let me ask you a question.
So given what we just talked about, as far as some of these options
actually being essentially, oh, I'm going to say the hated word in the
portion realm and investment, right?
Given the fact that some of these options actually pay you to buy them,
not just pay you back, but pay you to buy them.
Does that change your mindset?
Change my mindset about what like about about specs.
About options and about this new breed of people who are really sensitive
to what they're putting on their cars, because they're thinking about,
you know, making money in some cases.
What do you think?
Oh, no, in the end, I still don't like it by the color you like.
Like, like if Dave really, really like GT silver and I have clients
who love GT silver and even though it's 20 grand more and maybe down the road,
it would be worth more than who, you know, to get something else,
a paint to sample.
But if you really like paint to sample, it seems like a win-win situation.
Because also the thing here's the thing we don't understand is I keep cars
for quite a while comparatively.
And I don't know what the colors are going to mean in 10 years.
I mean, Averinting Green, a 993, we could not give that fricking color away.
And now it is such a gorgeous color.
But everyone says it's a cool color.
But 10 years ago, it was like such the settle for color.
And usually it was something like I really don't want it, but my wife likes the color.
So I can't find anything else.
I'll just get it.
And that's my problem with color is it's such a trend focus thing
that we don't know what will be cool in 10 years.
I always joke like when 991.2 came out, I was like,
man, what if you order a base guards red Carrera and only option it
with things that add to the driving experience, you know, carbon ceramic
brakes, sport buckets, just do base Carrera and try to get the MSRP as low as possible.
That's your career, right?
That's your career, T, but that was before we knew there was a career T.
But yeah, essentially a career T.
And I was like, oh, this will be great in 10 years from now.
People will be like, oh, there's a guards red 991.2.
They just lose their mind.
And I'd be like, and the color was free.
They're like, I mean, think about 993 turquoise blue that that that cool.
It looks almost like Mexico, non-metallic and pastel yellow.
People lose their mind over free colors.
They were absolutely free, no cost.
Yep. Let's let's move on.
I'm going to show you guys what I did in cars this week.
So you guys can see the carding club.
I've yet to learn how to flip my yeah, I need to get my 12 year old.
Oh, it's always birthdays tomorrow.
How cool is that?
She's happy birthday, Zoe.
Yeah, she's probably going to photobomb us here in a second
because she's not at school, right?
So I'm going to show you guys a video, see if I can get it to work.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Isn't it?
Is that Zoe?
This is this.
This is a friend of yours or something, right?
Doing a test.
Yeah, I'm not allowed to say names.
He was doing an unauthorized test on the new.
If that's an FIA approved, like built by the FIA, the whole thing,
you guys can see it's got real formula one.
We're looking at a go kart track in case you're just listening,
but it's got all the safety equipment, all the just crazy,
ridiculous levels of detail, and it's a real honest to God racing track.
And it's going to be electric carts.
I'm incredibly excited about it.
I actually gave up part racing back when I was in my twenties
because it was taking, I was just basically becoming all consumed by it.
And that's all I wanted to do.
And I needed to build a business or two before I could actually give myself
the, you know, time off to enjoy hobbies.
And so here I am in my fifties and they're building a, you know,
go kart track, which is in our neighborhood.
That's an amenity of our neighborhood.
It's going to cost extra.
We don't know how much.
So I know we have a lot of listeners that are actually live
in our community here in Dorado.
And a lot of you guys don't know that we have a go kart track
that's about to open, but there it is.
And you can see everything's done correctly.
It's got electronic timing and scoring.
It's incredible.
I just incredibly excited about it.
Have you guys ever go kart race before?
Have you ever been on that race?
By the way, I'm looking at the guy's helmet and if I'm correct,
it's my favorite F1 driver, Rubens Barrichello on your track.
No, no, but so, so I will tell you, and I'm not going to say his name
because I got that.
He sent that to me in WhatsApp.
And so he is driving somebody else's car who's taller than him.
And he's shorter than me.
He's five, seven.
So he's shorter than me.
So that's the reason he looks like he's a child in somebody else's
car because he is a child in somebody else's car.
That sounds like an F1 driver.
Yeah, basically.
Well, okay.
Well, will that be, will this thing be open to others?
Like, I mean, other people that are staying at the resorts or anything
like that around or so, so there's the Ritz Carlton hotel here.
And I'm not sure how they're, I doubt if they're going to make it
available to a guest.
I think it's just literally going to be a private club, a private
amenity for the club that you're going to have to pay an extra amount of money
for.
I'm like, take my money.
Let's go.
Who the hell sponsored them?
Somebody had to spend a lot of time and effort to sponsor that thing
to get that built in that neighborhood.
I don't know how to do.
The track, the track is called the, were you on that committee in some way?
I wasn't, I wasn't.
I found, I knew about this five years ago that they were talking about doing
it and just to make a long story short, the developers here wanted to build it.
And so they just did.
That's just the answer.
That's really the answer.
His grandson was into kart racing and evidently is quite good at it.
And there's a really long, there's, in Puerto Rico, people don't know, but
there's a lot of actually, a lot of famous baseball players, a lot of, I'm
watching this, I'm getting distracted by own video, but it's mesmerizing.
But any event, yeah.
So there's a lot of European focused sports activities that happen in
Puerto Rico, because Puerto Rico is very attached to Spain.
So when you're in Puerto Rico, it doesn't feel like anywhere else in the
United States or any of the other Hispanic parts of the world I've been to,
it feels like Europe.
And that's really what it feels like.
So they're all into European hobbies and European fashion, European clothes
and European, you know, all the rest of it, which, you know, a lot of people don't
realize when they think of Puerto Rico, they're just thinking of the next hurricane
and they're watching CNN and all this other crap.
Puerto Rico is not like that.
It's a wonderful, wonderful place.
I was at the gym yesterday and there was a lot of tourists here,
wall to wall tourists, because it's the season.
And I was talking to some guy working out, he was about to hurt himself.
And I helped him do a void, having a weight fall on his ankle.
And he and I started talking and his misperceptions, he was visiting here
with his parents, his misperceptions about Puerto Rico were all centered
around politics in the United States.
And don't worry, Paul, I'm not going to talk about politics.
And so you don't say that you are.
Why? Why? Why?
I'm not going to control myself.
And there's no US politics in Puerto Rico ever.
Nobody talks about it here, except if you're visiting.
That's what's so incredible.
No, because we can't vote in the presidential elections.
There's no, none of that's here.
And so when you're here and you're not around that environment, it's not anywhere.
It's if people are just more communicative, they're less combative.
They're more, I don't know how to describe it.
It's wonderful. I love it.
It's yeah.
So anyway, there it is.
Go Cartrack and I want to race on my sim racer.
I actually started in 20th in Mid-Ohio and finished first, which nobody but me
and my neighbor who I know is listening.
We care about it.
That's awesome.
All right.
So I think we're all kind of, all right, automotive news.
I'll go first.
And I was just showing this real quick, since we were on the Puerto Rico theme.
You guys ever live someplace and basically find yourself falling in love with it again?
Like all over again?
All right, we'll have a place for a while and get burned out on it.
That's a hard one.
I mean, I where I live is fine.
But what I crave the most is rallies to go see other roads.
I mean, I love part of the reason I do these rallies is just to see other parts
of the country via car.
So yeah, well, I'm finding myself falling more and more in love with Puerto Rico is all
I'm saying, and I'll team myself up.
So this was all over the Instagrams and everything.
And what we're seeing is a, you guys can help me out here.
Make sure I don't get my German wrong.
But this is a Sunderwich.
I think I got it right.
A 19 and what?
No, Courage E.T. isn't it?
I'm sorry, Courage E.T.
And what Porsche is doing is they're actually allowing owners of these cars to send
them back to, you know, Germany, and they're doing them up high up.
They want to be done up.
And I think they've been doing this for a few years, but this one is owned by a
friend of ours who owns the Porsche dealership and a lot of other dealerships
here. His name is Victor Gomez, one of this, just an unbelievably good person
helped me out in many, many, many times over car stuff here.
And any of that.
So that was his car and the lengths that they went to, I actually peeled out
interior pictures for you, Dave.
Did you see this?
Oh, I didn't see the interior pictures, but that's beautiful.
I've got more.
That's got to be what is that Alcantara everywhere in there?
Alcantara.
Yeah, look at the look at the diamond diamond stitch headliner.
Headliner. I mean, I like the interior minus it's just a personal thing.
I'm probably wrong.
I hate steering wheels that are any other color, but black.
That's just a personal thing.
But it wasn't dashes black.
Please. Isn't that just breathtakingly gorgeous?
Yeah, it is.
I would have loved to see it without the gumball.
That's the only thing is I'm not a fan of such a famous livery, though, right?
Such a famous livery, you know, 917 livery from the day.
I mean, it's gorgeous.
That's I just think that's gorgeous.
And it looks great on that car.
And a lot of times when people, you know, chuck liveries on these cars,
they don't look right on the car.
This one is actually done pretty well.
I'm impressed with it.
And so the big question is how much portion now to doing the same thing, you know?
Tim, the big question I had when I heard this break the news and saw the pictures,
how much?
I mean, to buy the car currently, if you bought just a Carrera GT,
and a nice high level driver, you're spending a little over 1 million, 1.2?
I looked actually, because I was curious to Paul.
And yeah, it's more than that.
I couldn't find it.
I think it's pushing up on two now.
Yeah.
Well, two would be like yellow or an unusual color.
But if you got like the silver, the communication color,
and it was like 5,000 miles, not low miles, I think the low end is 1.2.
And I think you can get into the low twos for something special.
But what did they charge your friend to do that?
I'll ask Victor next time I see him and he'll tell me.
Is that like seven figure refurbishment?
Because I know they did they did a full mechanical thing too.
When you really read into it, like it got the whole car got restored in a sense.
It was a different color, wasn't it?
Silver.
It was GT silver.
Yeah.
So they completely disassembled the car and they effectively restored it
into what he liked.
And the big question is going to be, and it sounds like he's doing something
which I approve of, which is for his passion for this.
You know, he owns a Porsche dealer.
This is celebrating Porsche's first overall win at Le Mans.
It really was the beginning of what, a 2017-20 overall win streak.
And he owns a Porsche dealer.
But I'm curious, like in 10, 15 years, what are these values going to be?
Oh, okay.
So there was, you guys will have to back me up here.
Again, I'm not in the car business, you guys are.
But wasn't there a 918 that just sold on that for over three million?
A white one, right?
Yep.
A white one.
I was shocked because they couldn't give them away like five years ago.
They were like, they were like 1.1 million.
I'm like, boy, these seem really cheap.
Well, what was special about that one?
I'm, we don't have to diagnose it.
But all I'm saying is, for example, that one that sold for over three million,
let's say Victor's owned this car for five years.
And let's say he paid 1.1 for it, even if he put, he's, you know,
he's not obviously going to be on the wrong side of that trade.
You know, he's going to be just fine.
That's a one-of-one car.
Yeah, the 918 was Onyx white.
It had 1600 miles.
It hammered for 3.1.
Would you have that Onyx white car or Victor's car for 3.1 million, Paul?
Well, that's not fair because I would take a Courgette over any 918 spider.
But I didn't give you that option, son.
It's a 9, that one 918 over the other.
All right.
So let me click.
Are those graphics vinyl or painted?
No, they're painted.
Fuck.
Because I would take your friend's car and I would just pull the 23 off and leave it alone.
That's the only thing.
No, I would take, I would take your friend's car over the 918.
I think the 918 is very pretty, very cool.
And I think it's sterile and it's almost too good at being a car,
which when cars get older, you want them to be hard.
You want them to feel like they're going to kill you,
which the Courgette does admirably well.
And the 918 spider is just such a,
I mean, when you listen to Matt Farah talk about that one he used for that tour back east,
actually in your area, Dave North Carolina, he did a rally in it.
And he says it was just really good at being a car.
And like, I don't want my supercar to be good at being a car.
I want it to be cantankerous, cold-blooded, angry.
I mean, think about the roller coasters that are really hot.
You just described yourself.
I mean that.
Yeah, I'm a supercar.
Cantanker.
I mean, when you're not on mic, when you're on mic, you're super sweet.
Off mic.
But did you see that Grant Larson did the graphics on this?
Isn't that your friend, Paul?
Don't you know that guy?
Yep.
Yeah, Grant Larson and Tony Hatter used to come in every year before Monterey Car Week,
buy a car for me, drive it up there, take it to Germany, sell it.
Until the last time they did it, they caught fire on the way back on Highway 1 and the SC they bought.
And they were hammering it down Highway 1 from Carmel when Highway 1 was open.
And they had a bunch of tools in the trunk and a crescent wrench, I think,
got wedged on the terminals of the battery.
And so the car caught fire.
Yeah, the whole front end burned.
And it was funny because I think Tony Hatter called me and said,
hey, what do we do to get it fixed?
I go, this is when the Porsche Classic Centers were just opening and South Bay was a Porsche
Classic Center.
I'm like, you work for Porsche.
Take it to your Classic Center and let them figure it out.
They won't know how to, though.
I know.
I mean, if I knew you, I would have said put it on a truck and send it over to Dave.
Victor owns Roof North America.
So Victor Gomez and his family owns Roof North America.
And so we'll try to get Victor maybe on our show to talk about some of the roofs he's got.
Because he's got a lot of interesting pre-owned roofs.
So in any event, yeah, anyway.
Very cool.
I want to rate him.
He sounds like my kind of people.
Oh, he's such a gentleman.
Let me share this with you, too.
Something I learned from being in Puerto Rico again is that the Puerto Ricans here drive the crap out
of their cars.
They do not garage queen cars here.
And in Puerto Rico, there's not a real culture around collecting cars.
They don't, I mean, I know some people have collections, but they don't like hoard them
like they do in the United States.
They go out and use them and put miles on them.
They don't baby them.
So those are, you know, I thought you guys would appreciate the difference.
So Dave.
I appreciate that.
I'm sorry.
When you said they enjoy their cars in Puerto Rico, the first image I had was a hamster on a wheel
just running.
Oh, dude.
So on hell, when you corner me because someone was bagging on Puerto Rican roads, remember
it was not me.
It was Kramer.
Because I have the last time you said that I had people say stuff to me.
Oh, good.
Yeah.
Tim had me.
Tim scripted that for me to say.
I had three or four people literally Paul that said to me, you need to learn where the good roads
are.
And I said, I didn't say it and I know where the roads are.
All right.
So moving off that, all right, David, ID buzz.
This is a very sad story.
Go ahead.
It's a shame because, and we've talked about this, this vehicle before obviously fully electric,
the, the successor to the famous split window bug buses or excuse me, the buses of days gone
by and this car came in seemingly, at least they're saying, pardon me, that they're just
going to take a one year hiatus with it.
So there won't be a 26 model.
But the issue of course is that they can't sell the 25s they have.
So the 25s are just sitting on lots.
And the, and if you're looking for a SUV and you're, or excuse me, a minivan and you're
ready to go electric, you can get a hell of a deal on one of these things right now.
They're $20, $25,000 off MSRP.
That's incredible.
Did you know they're just for brand new car?
So, so what would that, what would that cost new brand new?
I've seen them here locally in the mid 40s, like mid to low 40s,
brand new, like new on the floor, new.
The MSRP, what was the MSRP like 70, 80?
It's in the 60s, 62, 60 something for something typically, you know,
tricked with a few options or whatever.
So what would be the downside of buying that?
Like, Volkswagen will always service this, so I'm not worried about that.
At that price, what's your, what are you comparing against?
I guess it's how long you, how long you're going to have it because at some
point, if it actually dies and it probably will, where are you going to get parts?
You know, how, how, how's all that stuff?
You know, some plastic piece breaks.
What are you, where are you going to get it?
So there's, so you know how there's this whole, there's like EV West out here in
California and they're doing EV conversions on buses.
It'll be a whole new cottage industry.
A guy will be taking Gulf R engines and turning your, your ID buzz into a Gulf
R gas powered engine car and they will do well.
I mean, Tim, you, you and I talked about it.
They just had to have made a, either plug-in hybrid or an ice engine version, short
wheel base.
And I think they,
Why didn't that car sell?
It wasn't because it was an EV.
I don't think that was the reason why.
I think it was too expensive.
It's too expensive.
And too long.
The freaking thing is long.
It should have done a short wheel base.
We're okay with too long.
I just think when you look at that price range in the 60s, 70s, and you're going to
go buy an electric family hauler,
I think you've got a lot of choices.
I mean, Rivian, like boom, I think they're going to go to a Rivian over that.
If they're really looking at that, the Model Y, right?
A Model Y performance.
You're buying it for this.
Honestly, in that, in that 40,000, you know, whatever low 40s range, you know,
it's certainly something to think about, right?
Last day of the year folks, I don't know what it weighs,
but maybe it qualifies for the full depreciation.
I'll make it a Sunderban.
So my 296 is off warranty in November of this year, which, and those words kind of
send a shutter up my spine until I remind myself that it's probably not going to be me.
It will.
Okay.
So that the three year warranty, but the warranty on the battery goes for seven years.
And, you know, so just for what it's worth, if you bought one of those new buzzes and the whole
primary, you know, power train is a battery, you've got a seven year warranty on it.
The Volkswagen warranty goes for four years.
And Dave, to your point as to where you get parts, they're still selling those things in Europe.
So I wouldn't, I guess what I'm saying is I didn't know those are being discounted by that
much.
And if I were in the market for a car, I'd be taking a hard look at one of those because
that is a really cool looking car.
I think personally, it is why it's as gorgeous.
I agree.
Yep.
Well, that was my news, but you got Paul.
Well, Doug Taylor on 296, I'm sure you've seen this.
That was terrible news.
And it was sort of the beginning of just.
Can I interview you about this?
Do you mind?
No, no, not at all.
All right.
So what Paul has put up was a reel of a video of a crash that happened on Angeles Crest, right?
Yep.
Angeles Crest coming out of the tunnels, the two famous tunnels.
And then Zempella who passed away.
And just aside from the fact that you're, I mean, you put up that reel and it had
three million views.
And just as if we cared about all that stuff, Instagram influencer type things,
you'd be getting sponsored right now by the Kardashians, you know,
because it was an epic amount of people that showed interest in it.
But what I found was interesting were the comments.
And I know you probably want to talk about the architecture of the road.
But you guys, if you're not watching, if you're just listening, Paul's showing
a video that he took of driving out of the tunnel.
And at the end of the tunnel, and I'll give, and I'm hoping you don't agree with
me so we can have a little debate.
At the end of the tunnel, some jack hole working at some department of transportation
looks like they put a barrier right in the very spot where the road falls away.
And it looks like there's been multiple accidents judging by the tire marks going
into that spot that if that's not negligence, you know, maybe neglect
but negligence from the perspective of the Department of Transportation people,
I don't know what the hell is.
Because if you look to see where Vince passed away and his passenger also died,
that was the stupidest place they could have possibly put that.
And don't tell me it's just because they needed something to catch the rocks.
They could have put nets up there if that's a common place for rocks to fall.
Because a barrier is not going to keep the rocks from falling.
A net would have, and they have nets all the way up from LA to freaking,
you know, Monterey.
So don't tell me they couldn't have done nets.
So that's my.
Just watching that hurts.
My good friend is a captain at United.
And I remember he was on the safety committee and was really interesting because
I got to hear all the stuff that pilots did wrong, that no one was hurt, no one crashed.
And it's almost frightening about the airline industry.
But because they have so many safety checks, they catch things before they get bad.
But when things do go bad, and this is whether it's in a plane crash, car crash,
what any kind of catastrophe, it's usually the perfect storm of everything wrong.
And yes, he was carrying too much speed.
But how do we know?
I mean, visually, when you look at it and you don't know.
You don't know for sure.
But from what I can see watching cars go through that, I have a feeling he was carrying.
Here's the thing is, and when I posted that video, it wasn't to do anything more than like
literally two days before that crash, I had gone through there.
I've been through that tunnel hundreds of times.
And whichever direction you go, both directions exit into a turn.
This direction exits into a harder turn.
But what people don't understand is just the nature.
Unless it's dark out or really overcast, you're carrying any.
And by the way, the speed limit there is 55 on, you know, if it's not posted,
but there's no signs about, hey, besides the height of the tunnel,
there's no sign saying, hey, you're exiting into a turn.
Hey, you know, when you're driving on a twisty road and you see a speed limit sign with a turn,
and it says 35, you know that there is a turn that requires less speed.
So it's a combination of that.
Ultimately, Tim, you're right.
That barrier is horrible.
It's horrible.
Somebody needs to know.
If that barrier wasn't there, there is a high probability that there would be less tragedy.
The car would have been gone.
But you know, famously, if you go to YouTube and Google Oh No Corner,
Angeles Crest, there's a famous video of a Subaru guy coming out of the tunnel.
The car can't go as fast as the 296.
He loses control.
He does a tank slamper and he goes to the other side, which is downhill.
And the reason they call it Oh No is because the whole time he's going, Oh No, Oh No, Oh No.
He miraculously lands on a side about 20 feet down on a concrete drainage pipe.
I mean, it's like threading the needle.
If he hadn't landed there, for sure he would have been dead because it's about a 500 foot
pretty steep drop.
That corner has had so many accidents.
And then the other problem with that exit of that corner is because it's a big open area,
people go out there and do burnouts.
I've come through that tunnel and I can see, I'm looking for someone in the middle of that road.
See right there where you can see all the.
But Paul, let me, I'm sorry, but so how do we know there wasn't some jack hole in the road
taking pictures and he actually took maybe a little line that he wouldn't have normally
taken it to avoid the car, avoid the person because there was a mass of people there with
their video phones right there.
Number two, you're dead.
If you hit something going 30 miles per hour, 40 miles per hour, let alone faster than that.
If you come to a complete stop, you're dead period.
And some people were saying, well, he was obviously going over a hundred.
He wouldn't have died.
Bullshit.
And I researched this.
If you hit something 43 miles per hour faster and you come to a complete spot stop,
your body does not stay together on the inside.
So you're going to die.
And that's all these people are virtue signaling.
I don't know how else to say it.
Oh, a rich guy driving too fast being, you don't have all the facts.
And I feel really sorry for Vince and his family.
I mean, right before Christmas, it's so for Christmas.
It's, it's, it's horrible.
And, you know, and I post this video mostly to show people like, Hey, if you're in a tunnel,
whether it's this tunnel, another tunnel, you don't, it is almost impossible to see
what's on the other end unless you've gone through it.
And like, I already know that you just got to slow down and break.
And whenever I entered this tunnel and I see headlights or a car coming the other way,
you just have to chill the whole way.
If you want to go hear your car.
And by the way, before that tunnel, I slowed down to like 40 miles an hour,
went into second gear.
So I could actually hear my car went to third and then quickly slowed down.
So when I exit that tunnel, I was at the speed limit because just because I know what the road
does and also going back to, there's multiple reasons because people are there doing burnouts.
There's all these gumballs and marbles and rubber just loose.
So you've got a, a dangerous exit.
You've got a turn that's pretty sharp, even for, look how sharp that is even for the speed limit.
Crazy.
And then you've got lack, it's also off camber, lack of grip.
It falls away, it falls away.
And, and then to boot, if watch when I go straight out of the tunnel right here.
Let's explain that though.
So people are just listening.
So you come out, first of all, find his video on Instagram, right?
So if you, if you come out of this tunnel, it immediately goes to the left.
But what you can, you can kind of see is the road pivots you towards this freaking concrete
car killer, which is just waiting right there just to consume you.
Cause look, I'm, I'm going as close as I can to the yellow line.
And even though that, look at that.
If I go straight right there, I'm going to go right into that concrete barrier.
Imagine you were a Ferrari and you were basically making a lot of cool noises.
And there was probably, it looked like 20 kids on the other side of that
with their video phones.
You know for sure some of them are doing 1980s rally style standing in the freaking road.
And Vince probably saw that, right?
I already popped out of that tunnel, right?
Probably got hit with some light.
And he probably just hit, got sucked in by the kid.
So, so look at the kid standing on the other side of the tunnel.
See him in the shadow?
Yep.
Can you see that kid right there?
Yep.
They're kind of poking his head.
Watch him.
He's just poking his head out.
Oh, I didn't see that before.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
See him right there?
Yep.
Yeah.
So, so going back to your point, Tim, it is tragic.
It is horrible.
They haven't released anything on the passenger.
I really, you know, he had, you know, so, so Vince was survived.
You know, he's a father of three kids.
Their ages are like, let me just get this right.
Looking at the, it's 26, 22 and 19.
And you know, the first thought is, oh my gosh, I mean,
any time of the tragedy is horrible, but two days, three days before Christmas.
And I don't know, you know, and you're a father, you kind of, you know, you know.
Everyone, Vince, you never heard anything bad about this guy.
He was like, yeah.
Yeah.
All of his kids are out right there.
He's our age.
He's not young.
And I tried to find anything that was official from like Caltrans law enforcement.
It is under, to your point, Tim, under serious investigation because I don't think it is as
dry cut as he was speeding and crashed and died.
I think they're, I think for sure, especially whoever that passenger was, and I hope it wasn't
a minor, but whoever that passenger was, that, you know, that family, I mean, California already
has enough financial issues.
I mean, this is going to be severe.
Because if that for sure, or not for sure, but I feel 90% sure that if that concrete
barrier was not there or properly installed, we would be having a different conversation.
What did you read the comments?
I know you had like 2000 plus comments.
I read through some of them and a lot of, you know, I appreciate the people who actually
just did the right thing and said, hey, you know, our laws, our condolences for the family,
which is really what it's about.
You know, everyone wants to be an armchair quarterback.
I think a lot of people thought this was the POV of his crash, which obviously it isn't.
And that, and ironically, when I posted this Christmas Eve, I was just frustrated because
all my friends know I drive that exact route, which is an unusual route to drive to Newcombe's.
Most people don't go that way.
And I just was so frustrated that they all said the same thing that he's going too fast.
And I'm like, not really.
There's like so many variables that you have no idea.
And if you aren't familiar in, yes, he lives in the area and he's gone on an Angel's Crest,
but if you're not going up that road monthly, you forget how quickly, and then you throw in
the fact that you've got a crowd there, you're in a 296, you're having fun.
And, and in the end, I just, you know, my two hours after this happened, I got that really
clear video because my friend sent it to me because he apparently knew someone up there
who was filming.
And he says, Hey, do you know this guy?
And I'm like, no.
And then like literally a few hours later, it all came out.
And I watched it the first time and I was just shocked.
You just lose your breath.
You lose your breath.
It's like when Paul Walker died, you know, and these, I tell you what,
Porsches Southern California, well, that's a foray, but Southern California right before
Christmas, it's some of these, you know, it's horrible.
And then just to move on, add insult to injury, you know, Angel's Crest, as I mentioned before,
it was closed for two and a half years because that part of Angel's Crest doesn't get used a
lot.
There's a sort of a territorial battle battle between District 7, Caltrans, District 8,
and whose part, it literally splits in the middle of Angel's Crest.
So I think that road gets underused, under cared for, and just east.
So if you're going to New Covens from La Canyada, I don't know, it's Cedar something,
a little bit past that.
When the storms happened recently, the last few days, that washed out.
That whole road, that's that whole road.
That is between New Covens Ranch and where that tunnel is.
Oh my God.
And the tunnel is closer to Rightwood.
So when I go.
What we're seeing listeners is basically the road looked like it got hit by an apocalypse.
No more rambling.
A boulder, a boulder the size of a car came down the hill and just took out the road and the road
is already, as you can see underneath it, there's not much holding that road there.
It had been closed for two and a half years on another section of the road to clean up a sink
hole.
And my biggest fear is this road is going to get to the point where it's not worth saving.
Just like Highway 1 is this endless battle that, you know, it's not been open for years.
There's a road.
Oh my God, isn't it?
Isn't it one from LA to, they closed it again?
I'm pretty sure Highway 1 is still, you can't go from San Simeon to Carmel.
And it hasn't been that way because as soon as they fix the one part, another part.
You're right.
I mean, nature wants that road back.
This road is, I think more of, it doesn't get the resources because it's in this weird place.
There's not enough, there's not enough need for it.
There's no business.
There's a couple camps.
There's a church camp, which kind of is out of the way, doesn't really get hit.
And there's another camp that does get hurt by it.
And then if you want to go skiing and right now, I feel bad driving through Rightwood.
There's an old ski resort, Mountain High.
And this is the way, if you're going for LA, you would go there.
And it's just a ghost town.
I mean, they haven't had snow.
And for me personally, it is one of the most beautiful roads we have.
It is an amazing road, despite all the danger, every road is dangerous.
But if you treat it with respect, it is truly stunning.
Like I, you know, I mean, just look at that.
It is 42 miles of that.
Oh, you've never, I love it.
It's beautiful, especially I know, I know North Carolina.
I know Carolina.
You have Dave will have my back on this one.
You've never driven as before.
Trust me, I tell you, they are equally as beautiful, though we don't have the same
amount of topography as you do.
Yes.
But yeah, so I'm sad for the enthusiasts here in Southern California.
And this road has just been, you know, really, it's a sad thing about the road.
Didn't they open Mahalan again?
The snake got finally open.
There's already tons of tickets, tons of crashes.
Normal.
I have yet, I have yet to go there this Friday because it depends on whether I
probably going to stay away from Newcoms because if it is open, it might be a shit show,
especially if it snows.
I may go to Malibu, but I
What's with that new law in California that if you get caught driving 100 miles per hour,
not that they just confiscate your car, but also can take your driver's license without any sort of
hearing or nothing, just the DM, what the hell's up with that?
I mean, that just seems like a clickbait.
I think when they get to the legal part of that, I think there is plenty of
organizations and Paul Zuckerman's in the world that are going to fight that fiercely.
I think that's just posturing.
It's kind of like three strikes, things like that.
I think what will happen is they'll back down from that, but it will be something
more severe than what they have now.
Can't they take your car in California on the spot if you're caught doing over 100?
They can.
They can't impound the car, but impound is not like you mentioned, judge and jury.
That's just sort of like putting in this escrow until things get sorted out.
And if things aren't getting sorted out by the DMV or the Highway Patrol,
they're getting sorted out by a court.
So that's what they're arguing about.
The driver's license would hypothetically, assuming a driver's license is not a right,
which it's not, that's I'm sure where their legal standing is.
But you know what?
Let's not talk about that anymore because it's not that interesting.
You guys want to move on to segment three?
Automotive New Year's Goals.
I had a lot of fun with this.
Your top three 2026 automotive New Year's Goals.
And I gave you guys some suggestions, but I didn't need to.
You had plenty of them.
David, you are first.
I loved yours.
And I think I actually stole some ideas from you.
So go for it.
Well, cool.
And so, you know, I mean, maybe not in order, but I have this photo up.
And we talked about this a couple of weeks ago is this is going to be the full throttle talk
combo Sunderworks budget back date build that we're going to do here in 2026.
And our listener and contributor question asker John H.
is was looking all over the country to find a car that it had a good looking back date
on a later car.
So he's looking for a G body car with the back date and he couldn't find one.
And he'd listened to our show back in early December.
And then he called me and I said, Hey, I've got this 86 that's here that would be the perfect car
to donate, not donate, but to use as the donor car for this build.
So this is an 86 911 3.2 liter Carrera.
It paint was kind of rough on it.
But it makes a great car for a back date.
So we're going to just basically pull fenders, bumpers, rear fenders, excuse me, rear bumpers,
leaving the fenders alone.
He and I had a little online debate about fenders and we can talk about that later.
But this car is pretty much gutted at this point.
We pulled the interior and we're hoping I think we can build this car.
If I don't have to do any major engine work and I don't think we will because the engine is pretty strong.
We'll build this car for under 150 grand and that's going to be all in, including the price of the car.
So he's sold on a back date.
Is he absolutely sold on a back date?
Yeah, that's what he wants because this was the guy.
If you remember, we talked about a blue back date a few episodes ago, light blue.
I don't think I had maybe I do have it, but it was kind of his inspiration for this car.
And it was a back date we thought was under priced.
Oh, the one that was sold on West Coast and then it came back East and then it didn't do well again.
That one, the blue one.
That was a cool car.
That's exactly the one that had the red interior in it.
And he liked that look.
And I think that, I mean, no, it's all about 3.2 and modern transmission, modern interior, modern, you know.
Modern, more modern, right?
Makes total sense.
I mean, it's it's what I use as a rally machine.
And it sounds like he's building the I assume he wants to go do events with it.
Is that exactly?
But he's not going to this won't be some crazy.
We're not going to take the motor and turn it into a 3.8 liter monster.
Give me the details.
What color?
Yeah, what color?
That's the big one.
I don't know yet.
I don't know.
I mean, Dave, tell us this back.
Texting me, he was literally texting me here before we started the the podcast to talk about this fender thing again.
So we haven't gotten into colors, but I will keep you guys all.
We'll talk about this thing weekly as we start pulling it apart.
Because he wants suggestions.
Yeah.
Well, of course, of course, he's going to want suggestions.
You're going to be listening to John H.
John H.
Listen to Kramer.
My favorite early longhood color is leaf green.
It is so good.
Even though I would love to have a leaf green hot rod, I'll let you do yours.
Leaf green.
Chartreuse 150 grand all in, including the car.
That's kind of the idea.
Yeah.
Bargain.
Bargain.
That's the idea.
100% of bargain.
A brand new.
We'll see.
I mean, this is going to be a real experiment because there's going to be places where he's going to say, well, geez, can we do this?
And that's just where we went with fenders.
So where can you waste a lot?
I spend a lot of money on these things.
It's the motors, right?
That's where the big motors.
But here's the other thing.
If you don't start cutting and welding on the car, like if he wanted to turn this into an RSR style flared car,
that price is going to go up dramatically.
He started talking about the difference between SC flares or, you know, this sort of Carrera flair
and the flair that would have been on a longhood RS, 73 RS.
Those flares are identical inside.
The width of that car is exactly the same.
Same flair.
There's a slight difference to the shape of the edge of a 73 RS.
John, listen to your old friends Paul and Tim here.
That's not the conversation to have.
If you're going to change the rear flares, which it sounds like to me you shouldn't,
do ST flares, which are even barely noticeable the difference between that and ST flair, or just leave it as it is.
Leave it as it is.
Leave it as it is.
Spend the money on the interior.
Spend the money on suspension, on brakes, on the things that are going to make it.
Hell, put air conditioning on it.
You will thank me.
It makes these cars so much more usable.
Definitely. They see? Dave?
No.
You can.
Well, I'm not sure.
It does, but I'm not sure if it's commissioned and works.
If the compressor is still in it, I don't know.
But all the gobbledygook is there.
When you put AC and RS, none of the gobbledygook was there.
Correct.
That was all inside the gobbledygook.
Yeah, you don't have any gobbledygook in your car, Tim.
And a Carrera came with AC from the factory.
And believe it or not, if you just do an updated compressor,
some updated components, I mean, you could easily spend five grand,
but it does make these cars so much more usable, especially if you're in anywhere that has heat
and humidity.
But going back to what Dave said, I know everyone goes, ooh, RSR, it's so sexy.
But what people don't realize is how much work that is to do those flares.
And then once you're done, you have a car that generally doesn't drive as nice as the narrower
body.
Unless you spend a ton of money on the suspension.
And let's spend a ton of money on suspension.
And then you're now fighting good luck with tires.
Now your tire choices go down to, yeah, two tires that cost a fortune.
And yeah, I love 15, 9s and 11s.
But now you've got like Michelin TB's and these Pirelli's,
which you're talking $2,000 a set and they're like 3,000 mile tires.
I mean, they don't, whereas you're going to run that, you're going to run 16 inches.
I'll tell you right now, plug it.
The Michelin AS4 all season fours are awesome on those cars.
And everyone goes, ooh, I want summer tires.
Their summer compound sucks.
The winter compound's great.
On the interior of that car, it's obviously a very nice interior from the factory.
Would you, what would you, and you can, you know what?
I was going to suggest you put up pictures of Alberts interior,
just so you can get some more interior work, not like you need work.
Not sure I have any up here in my queue here, Tim, unfortunately.
He got it done, Paul.
And it's gorgeous.
I was hoping he was going to show off his craftsmanship.
As far as the interior of that car goes, what is, which way is he leaning?
Like ultra?
No, I think, I mean, I think it's going to be pretty purpose built.
But I think if, I mean, I'm trying to convince him,
we do a sports seat conversion here on the stock seat that would have come in that car.
Right.
So the stock Recaro 85 plus seat is a great base from which to convert the seat to the
Recaro sports seat.
So we pull that seat apart.
We weld the bars that are required to support the more bolstered seat.
My favorite seat of all Porsche seats is that sports seat.
I will try to convince him to do something like that, in which case we'll do some
cool inserts and so on.
But we're not, we've got to keep this thing in line.
So we're not doing anything crazy.
It's going to look great.
It'll have great tartans or a papita or a hound's tooth or something like that.
A more modern sports seat and a back date.
What do you think, Paul?
Yeah, but it's still, I still think it's going to look fine.
I really do.
Versus like fixed buckets and things like that.
But that'll be the only tell, right?
Unless someone's super nerd knows the dash, right?
So they're going to, I mean, that's just, that's a split hairs.
But those, those newer seats are a hell of a lot more comfortable though.
Yeah, the newer, I mean, the trick I've seen before, but this goes back to where
you get scope creep and the cost starts to go up.
I've seen them take those regular high back non-sport seats.
They can turn them into a sports seat like you're talking.
They cut the top part off and then they buy a D.
For the headrest or.
Headrest and you kind of get the look or you look at how much that costs.
You buy a really good replica seat.
I think those, the ones I sat in recently, they were from Italy.
Dresser.
Man, those were good.
I was like, man, if you could buy one, just the frame or just the basic.
They won't sell you the frame.
Trust me, I know this.
They, I mean, they won't sell me the frame now.
Let me just see that.
Cause I did buy the cheapest one, the vinyl cheapest one,
which I think they're probably for a pair of 2,500 maybe more.
By the time you import those, no, you're close to five grand.
By the time you import those.
Yeah.
Dude, that's too bad.
Yeah.
Cause those would look great.
But yeah, you know, Stefan down at the GTS classics in Dallas as well.
He makes a pretty good copy of that seat as well.
If you want to go that way.
Back to the point.
We can't have scope creep.
We got to keep this thing in line.
That's the plan.
I think it's going to be stunning stellar.
I'm excited to try to do this and do it in a way that's going to be reasonably expensive.
No, it's going to be cool.
Excited to do that.
So that's excited.
That's just one of my three things.
I'll make the other two quick.
But on this court seat, you could put memory foam in.
You could build out the loan.
All that kind of stuff.
Absolutely.
And heated seats are cheap.
Yeah.
Totally.
Right now they're free because they came with a car.
Nice.
So that's what we got as a start.
Item two for 2026.
I have signed up.
I have paid my money.
I am going to run GT Smokies, the GT Smokies event,
in April in my fine, you know, the GT3RS.
And so that is a basically an almost a week event
that is driving through the Appalachian mountains and all kinds of stuff.
This is for GT cars.
Yeah.
But there's other ones that go on, too, though.
You should do that.
You should fly your butt out to, you know, God's country.
Okay.
You will.
You will.
I keep talking about sending my car out there and doing a bunch of events.
Like leave it out there for like half the year.
Okay.
So I'm going to give you a little insight here.
I happen to know somebody that generally speaking has two or three nice 9-11s for sale
that I would venture a guest might let you use one.
Well, I hate using other people's cars all over the place.
But I also know how it is to borrow somebody else's car to do a rally.
It's kind of like wearing somebody else's shoes to do a hike.
I was referred to him borrowing it from you.
Yeah.
No, I understand.
I understand that.
I would gladly put something in the loaner pool for Mr. Kramer, of course.
Right.
I've got plenty of cars, but it's just not the same when it's not your car.
I mean, I get it.
You know, sometimes you got to do it if your car is broken down before the rally,
but it's still, and I've loaned cars for sure.
But we're doing that.
That is in April.
I'm really looking forward to that.
That also includes a track day at VIR as part of that deal.
And it's just GT cars.
This group has gotten very big, reasonably well-known,
certainly around the country.
And I'm looking forward to that.
So that's coming up in April.
It's a classy event.
And I have not done it, but I obviously talked to Joe's people who had done it before.
Very, very well-organized.
And they keep the jackasses from participating, which is nice.
Because those roads in that part of the country are very technical.
I guess still won't let me in.
Oh, there you go.
That's true.
They'll let you in.
They'll let you in.
They said jackass.
Just don't check the jackass box on the web for them.
On the application.
All right.
So I want to hear about the Sunderworks Golf Targa.
Yes.
Okay.
This is the origin story of the Sunderworks car.
This is an 84-911 Targa.
I bought this car in 2018 while on vacation in LA.
I drove down to Santa Ana, I think, is where I found this car.
It was on Craigslist at the time.
And I think I paid $24,000 to bring this car back and shipped it back to California,
North Carolina.
And this was the outcome after six or eight months of restoring this car, right?
And this was sort of, you know me, I'm a big, I do like the Gulf livery.
This is 2018.
So it's really, I was hyped up on the Gulf livery.
Horses were just getting hot.
And, you know, here's Dave with his Gulf livery car.
I evolved this car quite a bit over time.
We put some cool interior in the car at one point.
This is a Paul Smith fabric we did on this interior.
He's coming out with a mini.
Paul Smith is a design mini that is going to have a Paul Smith design on it as well.
So I just, I saw that as a news item.
But I sold this car after five or six years of ownership to a friend of mine.
And my friend son and he were on away.
They had not even arrived at the event yet where they were driving to Target, Carolina.
And unfortunately, through a series of mishaps, one ran into the other in two, nine, 11s.
So son was driving this car.
Dad was driving a Brown SC coupe.
Both cars are here.
This car unfortunately got totaled.
So this is the car.
This is, you know, show you the white.
Why did it get totaled?
What was the bad part?
Well, if you take a look here, and let me see.
I got a picture here, but there's just a bunch of stuff on this car,
where all these circles are and so on that you can see.
It's other California.
They throw that thing back together in two seconds.
Well, it was, you know, we did an estimate to straighten the frame
and do a bunch of other stuff.
And basically he got cashed out on the car.
So you think it was insured properly?
Do you think?
Fortunately for him, he had it insured with Hagerty for the full amount that he had paid me for the car.
And he also had the extra 5 percent
terrorist salvage coverage, which I certainly highly recommend to anyone.
What is this?
What is it?
Terrorist, I can't even say it.
Cherished salvage means that they pay you out for the car.
And because you paid, I think it's only 5 percent extra on the premium.
They then give you the car back as well.
So you don't have to buy, you don't have to buy the out.
You don't have to buy the salvage.
Oh, you get it back for 5 percent?
Correct.
I'm going to cash out.
No, 5 percent of the premium.
You pay 5 percent extra on your premium, Tim?
Correct.
To buy this rider.
So once if this happens, you don't have to pay anything.
After they cash you out, they just give you the car back.
You don't have to re-buy it back.
Correct.
Now, the car then has a salvage title on it.
But at the same time, you've got the car, right?
Oh, okay.
I can see why they salvaged it right there.
I know.
Yeah, I know.
That's the bad part.
I know for sure that what motor was in this brand new Fresh 3.2 that we had rebuilt brand
new transmission.
Long story short is I'm buying the car from client.
So I'm getting the car back from him.
And my plan will be, I don't care if it has a salvage title, we'll fix it.
Or else if it's, I think it's fixable.
I mean, we're going to have to put it on the frame.
How far back does the frame damage go, David?
Do you know yet?
It goes back.
It goes back.
There's some damage behind the front wheel here.
So if people are not watching, the right fender or right front wing, as they call it,
is off the car.
There's damage right where the cross member of the very front that the hood latches into
is and then a part of the fender wheel.
It looks like Jake Paul after his last boxing match when he got hit in the jaw.
It looks wrinkled, but knowing these cars, they're meant to absorb impact.
So that probably shifted the whole chassis of the unibody all the way behind it.
In fact, when I see these impacts, often you'll see catty corner, like on the left rear,
things like the deck lid doesn't close.
It's a target.
Maybe the target bar doesn't quite fit.
I mean, I now can see because this probably rippled throughout the car.
But it's metal.
You can put it on.
It was about a 60 plus thousand dollar repair is what we estimated to fix the car in terms
of straightening it, putting fender, doing the whole nine yards.
Did your body shop have, would you straighten the frame on that yourself?
I have a, we have a partner that we work with who has a select bench and a frame straightening rig.
And so the brown car, which didn't get totaled, the brown car we had just built a $30,000 motor for
and he got hit from behind with this car.
So right front fender goes into left rear bumper of the car in front.
Hold on and wax the back of the car.
The brown car hit the blue car.
Both of these are your customers.
No, blue car hit the brown car.
Oh, blue car hit the brown car.
Blue car hit brown car.
Both are clients.
Both are cars that we've done work on.
One is car I used to own and sold to friend and friend basically smashes car, my old car,
sun driving it into his car.
What happened is a cop pulled up behind him.
They were on their way to target Carolina.
The cop flips on the blue lights because they were clicking along at a pretty good click.
Dad sees the, sees the lights immediately slows down.
Sun distracted by cop doesn't see dad is slowed down and plows right into the back of dad.
Nobody was hurt.
So that's what happened.
Everybody's good though.
Nobody was hurt.
Oh, no, no, nobody got hurt or anything.
And I don't think they were going at such any kind of high rate of speed.
And of course the cops let them go because it was like, oh Jesus,
you know, I was probably somewhat responsible for this wreck.
But we will bring this car back at some point and some point it will come back to its former glory as the
Gulf Sundermobile.
So that is my three objectives for 2026.
Make sure you make the gumballs bigger and just to piss Paul off.
Yeah, actually, actually, if you're going to put gumballs on, please make them bigger.
They look lost on that car.
They need to be, in fact,
they came off much later.
That one picture was just after I had done the car, but later on all that shit came off.
But if you do gumballs, what looks really cool is insanely oversized where it goes from the top
all the way, almost wrapping around the underside and you shift it forward.
So it goes onto the front fender and the door.
It looks actually, I can be on board with that.
You could be on board with those gumballs.
But you've got the stripe down the middle.
You've got the rocker stripes.
That's the problem is you get too many, like pick a stripe,
the rocker stripe or the one down the middle, not both.
Totally got it.
So you weren't in my life at this point, Paul.
So, you know, I did not have any way to lean on for this sort of,
but aren't you thrilled you get Paul to criticize every damn decision you've made?
Of course, I love it.
I messaged him when we were talking about your customer's car that you're going to be building
and told him for us to keep our yaps shut because we don't want to mess around with our
overriding opinioning, opinionating because we're only good.
Yeah, we want the total opinion.
Hey, one last quick thing.
We're building one of these too.
Oh, bad ass.
Is that for a customer or a spec?
It is.
That is a Russell built car out of California.
Yeah, those are cool.
Very cool, really nicely done.
He figured out that he himself cannot build enough of these cars.
So he's IDing shops around the country to basically sell his kit to because he's not a full kit.
This isn't like some, you know, elephant racing bolt on stuff.
He's built some very bespoke suspension stuff for this.
And I've seen his cars in person.
Super cool guy.
We've already talked about it.
Whole side story.
I can tell you about this, but this is going to be a really cool build.
Okay, I have questions.
I bet you I'm going to ask as well.
First of all, that'd make the perfect Puerto Rico car.
Number two, so all in would something like that cost to build.
And for those of you who are listening, it's going to be north of three.
Yeah, it'll be somewhere between three and four all together, including the price of the car.
It's a 964 based car.
All right, so for those of you listening, we're basically looking at what can only be described
as a really amazing looking, you know, rally, you know, 964 911.
I love the design stuff.
He's done with those players.
If you look up Russell, and he's one of the people that came out of the early, early singer days.
He was a fabricator for Singer.
He's here in LA.
He opened up his own shop.
He has an off road background.
And so what's unlike this compared to a lot of safari cars.
I mean, this is damn near close to a 911 pre-runner.
It is probably the most capable safari off road 911.
I've seen come out.
I mean, if there's plenty of videos, you can watch them.
I mean, he can do jumps like a pre-runner.
I mean, it could do dunes.
It is, it is probably the most aggressive.
I love it because I would say the only downside, he's driven it up to Newcombe's ranch.
I've talked to him about it.
I wonder really what the on-road dynamics are with.
I think the one, Paul, the one that his first one, he's got different names for these,
but this one's called the Clubman or something like that.
And if you go to his website, the first super extreme one that he built,
that the one I think you're talking about, his original kind of prototype,
he will only build those cars himself.
This is something that you can buy as bits and parts.
David, can you have something more formal to show to everyone next week
so we can actually break this out?
Because I am massively interested in this.
I love that I don't know shit about it.
So if you could actually do a little educational part about that.
Happy to.
That'll be fun.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, think about it, Tim.
This for the same price as that weird 997 turned into a short wheelbase?
Yeah.
This all day long.
All day long, this car.
Yeah, I like that.
Like I said, I'm genuinely interested.
I love the fact that there's people doing stuff like that.
It excites the hell out of me.
It's so cool.
Take a look at his website, Tim.
I mean, there's good details and he shows the cars that he's built.
You know what?
I'm going to show you guys this just real quick.
I wasn't planning on showing this to you, but I'm going to show you this.
I have talked to this guy on, let me find it again.
Give me two seconds.
I'm looking through my pictures.
He is going to start selling these.
I told you guys about this in the last show starting in two weeks.
Here we go.
The road legal and it's all these crazy things.
So I'm going to get this guy on either probably as a separate podcast,
but full throttle talk so we can talk about it.
So what we're seeing basically is an F3 open wheel.
Looks like a Formula One car.
It's going to have a halo.
It's at 200 horsepower, 220 horsepower.
Still don't know what motor it has and it is road legal.
So it originally comes as a three-wheeler and the back wheel is a three-wheel.
And then he's going to sell a kit that most people are obviously going to buy
right out of the gates that allows you to take the back three-wheel thing off
and then make it to true four-wheel car.
And it remains, it keeps its, I don't know.
A motorcycle lights.
It's basically registered as a motorcycle.
Yeah, registered as a motorcycle.
You know, Paul, I don't think you see these all over the place in North Carolina.
You don't need a motorcycle license for those three-wheelers.
I'm pretty sure.
Correct.
So you just be normal.
That's kind of crazy.
So sling shots and can-ams and those kind of car things.
You can basically, you don't have to have a motorcycle license,
but I think they're registered like a motorcycle.
They can go on the carpooling, the high occupancy lane with them.
That's crazy.
But can you, if the world is actually going to allow us the grace
of having Formula One cars on the road,
then I think it's definitely as a precursor to the return of Jesus Christ.
Because-
So he's like, I won't talk about politics, but I'm going to bring-
Yeah, I won't put a religion instead.
Well, I mean, if you're, you know, look, it's a Formula One car for the road.
What more do I need to say?
Yeah, that's right.
It's-
I'll go through my goals relatively quick.
This has been a four-year-long project that hopefully-
Oh, it looks awesome.
That's beautiful.
That's not ours.
No, no, no.
Ours is still in parts.
Well, that's a turd then.
That is, no, that is a car in Belgium that was restored for your boot,
your Porsche friend, the grandson guy.
Oh, Ferdy?
Ferdy.
So if I remember correctly, that car is a tribute that Ferdy had,
you know, built for himself.
And anyway, so the aluminum body is in,
getting our aluminum bodies from England.
It's waiting in a place in Kentucky.
The four cam motor, same place.
All the bits and pieces are coming together.
Next stage, it's supposedly happening January, February.
It's going to go to paint.
And I am putting gumballs on it, sorry.
And we are going to do FIA approved.
My dream with that, unfortunately, I haven't grown bored of the dream yet,
is to do rallies with that thing.
That you need to have an FIA approved car.
So that is a, in case you guys are listening and not watching,
that is a 55, it's a tribute.
It's a 55, one for one tribute to a Porsche 550,
with the exact right motor and a 547, all the bits and pieces.
So in order to get that, this is crazy,
but in order to get that FIA approved, every bit of it had to be,
as it was original, the motor had to be the 547,
the brakes had to be the drums in the front.
All the things had to be exact.
And that's what that car is.
And Paul, wouldn't you say this is, it's a nice spec?
Yeah.
Yeah, nice spec.
No, I do, as a former replica owner,
and it was nothing like what Tim's building.
You know, this is late 90s.
I strive so hard to replicate the pieces that now,
guys like Russ at Fiverr Steel make a lot of them.
But what Tim's doing is, is Herculean.
It's really taking it to a high level to do that much work,
especially what the costs are when you've told us bits and pieces
of how much this thing is and how much that thing is.
You know, this is where someone like,
I'm so excited my friend has a boat.
Four years.
So when I started four years ago, it was going to be less than half.
And we're going to put a pushrod in it, a 356 pushrod in it,
because the original 55s that raced had pushrod quarters in it.
And then of course, you know, and then of course there's tariffs
and all the shit got tariffed on the way in and boom,
the price goes up by, you know, 15%.
And I'm not going to think about it.
It's been four years.
Remember, I keep on saying the time.
It's going to be cool.
It's going to be cool.
Yeah.
And I do want to see you.
I want to see Tim and I talked about this.
We made a goal for you, Tim, in case you didn't read it in a thing,
which is I want to see you take one of these things you have,
whether it's your blue car on a North Carolina rally or that car on a FIA.
That's my next goal.
Okay.
With other people, with other people, like,
I don't want to drive around other people.
All right.
So my next goal is I'm going to hire a driving coach.
We'll break them down, Paul.
I could hire a driving coach to be better on the car for kart racing,
because I showed you guys the go kart.
And I'm going to hire a SIM coach to get better at SIM racing.
And then the last thing is motivated by David.
I'm going to do the rent.
I'm going to do the rent sport dragon rally.
And this is what I was going to suggest to you, Paul.
They do it four times a year.
The first one they do in April is just for air-cooled.
The other three, I think, or whatever you want to drive.
But that, from what I can tell, is not as specific as his,
which is the GT cars.
But that looks like it's really epic as well.
You might want to consider it.
You do it four times a year.
Right.
Really.
Different, yeah.
The different groupings and so on.
But they're all done here out around till the dragon and other places.
You've done that, no?
David?
Yeah.
I've not done it.
No, I haven't.
I've got enough other rallies that are more specific to air-cooled cars only,
which is the ones I really like.
Yeah.
And the community I built around that is a little bit different
than the dragon rally guys.
So I mean, but I would be open to it, of course,
especially Tim, if you're going.
If you're going, I'm there.
I'm coming.
I remember.
Well, the last thing is that we're, and this is motivated by you, Paul,
is I was so jealous of your trip to Germany, dude.
That was so gorgeous.
Your pictures on the mountain passes and all those, it was unbelievable.
So we are doing nothing like what you did.
We're going to be going to Germany and then ending up in Italy.
And we're going to rent, and I'll talk about it in a second.
We're going to rent something really cool to drive through.
We sent it to our travel agents.
I had a GROC help me make the itinerary and he messaged us back.
He goes, I have one question, $470 a day for a car.
Question mark, question mark, question mark.
He's obviously not a car guy.
Definitely not.
I'm like, that'll buy you something decent.
That'll raise something, something okay.
All right.
So Paul, you are up next.
Yeah, I'll try to go as quick as I can.
Three big things.
First thing we've got coming up the end of February.
I've talked about for the fat mankind, ice race and big sky, Montana.
My friend, Joe Hiles going with me.
We are taking the 944 Turbo S.
It's an 88.
It's Dutch police faux livery.
I don't know if I mentioned last time, but it got accepted under the exhibitor display.
So I get to do some laps.
Pirelli has generously donated sponsored five ice snow tires.
They're Pirelli, can't remember the name of them,
but they're going to be arriving in January.
Hopefully in time to take them up to Angeles Crest.
If there is an Angeles Crest left to go drive in the snow in practice.
Get the models right.
If you're getting free tires, you better be on the plane here.
Well, they all say the same.
They're like, Centurano, something.
Anyway, yeah.
So I mean, this was from the last ice race at Zell MC,
but I think it'll look pretty similar.
And obviously the cool thing is they have this thing about towing skiers,
but we'll be on a track like that.
It'll be exhibition.
So that's coming up.
I'm working hard to actually be physically also ready,
but it should be fun.
Get the car ready.
And then the next big goal, which we're, if you're listening to this
and you're interested in Hill Country Rally, I am sorry.
Tickets went live Monday and they were gone in 10 minutes.
They have got over 350 cars registered.
They take over this whole hotel in Curville.
This is an amazing event.
It's in the Hill Country part of Texas,
which is literally the only interesting place to drive in Texas,
Fredericksburg, that whole area.
Yep.
And it is, this is me and my dad.
We go all the way south on one day to barbecue.
We found that, yes, the left headlights missing.
This rally takes out headlights, windshields,
starters, and fuel pumps by far.
Like the carnage is insane when people go,
Oh, why do you have stone guards on your headlights?
I'm like, because they get destroyed.
We also make a fun trip.
We call it the rally to the rally.
It's going to be a four day, three night rally out.
This was me.
This is a famous checkpoint in Texas where Johnny,
where John now this was drugs.
This is where Johnny Cash famously got arrested for carrying marijuana.
Now, and that dog is not looking at me because I have treats.
It's just checking me out.
I guess it is looking to see if I have treats.
But the funny thing is two cars back is our friend who used to be a cannabis attorney
and his family used to run cannabis stores.
And I rarely see him not enjoying cannabis.
And he was trying to ditch this stuff as fast as possible.
He got through.
I do not know how to this day, but he got through.
And the last year's trip, we took the northern route.
And we had a little surprise of snow.
And yes, none of these cars were ready for snow.
We kind of threaded the needle between two storms.
We're going to be taking a southern route this year,
going through Big Bend National Park.
We have 17 cars coming out from California.
And I actually had to kind of cut it off from there
because we don't have enough room.
So that's the second goal, make it to Hill Country Rally in the middle of March.
And it will be really the first time driving one of my more difficult cars,
my Green 9-11, the car you see in this picture, all that distance.
It's 1,700 miles to the event.
It'll be 500 miles of driving at the event and another 1,300 miles back.
So we're going to talk like 4,200 miles.
Now granted, I'm going to be driving this to Big Sky, Montana,
but that's going to be mostly freeway.
The going to Texas is going to be almost all back roads.
And so I've got a few months, we might go to White Sands.
That is not snow.
That is gypsum, White Sands, New Mexico.
Oh, let me ask some questions.
How long are you going to be in the car?
Like on an average drive day, how long is your butt in that seat?
Total drive time will probably be eight to nine hours.
So you're going to be in a car driving occasional for gas and pee
for eight or nine hours a day?
Yep.
By the way, when I've been doing these drives to Newcombe's on Fridays,
that's two hours each way with a stop for an hour, two hours back.
Believe it or not, that actually is the easiest thing.
It's actually once I've been sitting for a while getting up,
it takes my body a little bit to get moving again.
Because your hip.
But now, like right now, I am no longer using a cane or any walking device.
I still walk like the penguin.
Someone said I look like a gangster with my walk.
But the reality is I don't need any devices for walking.
So I'm hoping that in a couple of months, I'm getting at the rate I should be.
I would like it if someone who doesn't know me doesn't know that I have a problem.
That's kind of the problem.
Oh, no.
Anybody looking who knows you have a problem?
Yeah.
But you have a weapon to fight.
No, you can't escape from that look.
And then the last goal, which I say this, but it's kind of like the last thing a gardener
wants to do is come home and mow their own lawn.
I have too many cars and I would love to sell two cars.
But it's like literally Sophie's choice of which cars do I get rid of.
And it really comes down to what fits my lifestyle, what I'm enjoying.
This was the car I wanted when I was in high school.
I wanted a Countach.
But this was what I could afford, which I really couldn't afford.
It's a Mitsubishi.
It's a no, my gosh, Mitsubishi.
It's a Nizuzu Impulse RS.
One of 1100 for North America.
And the only reason they made 1100 is because they can only probably sell 900.
And they are, they're fun.
They're two liter.
I mean, think about it, 1987.
An Acura Integra, which 16 valve was cool or Shirako.
They were 110 horsepower.
These were almost 150.
They were two liter turbocharged intercooled rear wheel drive for a Japanese car.
Five speed manual limited slip.
Now that sounds like a centerfold likes long walks on the beach is really fun,
you know, loves cars.
You read that and I remember I first drove it.
I was like, there's no way this is a steering rack.
This feels like the shittiest steering box.
And I looked it up.
It is rack and pinion steering, but they somehow managed to make it horrible.
It's not just not as fun to drive.
Now this car is really fun to drive.
This is a 66 BMW 1600.
It is the very first 1600 to the United States.
So Kramer, you realize by talking about these two cars,
being that we're on full throttle talk, being that you sell cars for a living,
being that you said you were thinking about selling them,
you're going to get people wanting to buy either of those cars.
So you, your decision might be being made for you.
Well, here's, here's what are you going to do with the money if you sell them?
Here's the pro tip.
If you come to the shop when I'm not there and my dad, the ad is there,
he will sell anything.
I am probably the worst person because I have separation anxiety.
If I magically sell these two cars, which I am really lazy at selling my own cars,
it's almost like someone has to walk in.
If I sell these two cars, I would love to buy something that I would use,
like a 991.1.
I don't care.
Coupe of some kind.
I don't care if it's base as I'm even not sure I necessarily want a manual or PDK.
I kind of go back and forth.
It would, it would just have to be a cool spec.
Oh man, what a hypocrite.
It is thick today.
No, that was just tongue in cheek.
Oh, I see.
All right.
That's my plans.
It sounds like we have got some good goals.
Think we're all thinking.
Totally.
Yeah, definitely.
Who I know for sure will happen.
The other one.
As soon as you need to go first, I'm sorry, as soon as you need to go first.
Well, what's your Susan worth?
All in, like best case scenario.
Probably 12 to 15 grand.
I don't know, man.
Yeah, it's one owner besides me, 70,000 miles.
Look at that interior.
Classic Giugiaro design.
I mean, this thing is crazy looking.
Other than it taking up space for 12 or 15 grand.
I mean, look at the 928 tail lights.
Oh, yeah, they kind of do look 928 tail lights.
That's hilarious, isn't it?
But my favorite part about it was the little headlights.
They were like little eyelids that would just sort of like ridiculous.
They pop up like an inch.
What would be harder to replace?
The Azuzu or the BMW?
Oh, the Azuzu.
Put it this way.
When I found that car, I had been looking quietly,
non-aggressively for almost 10 years.
Like they don't exist.
Let's help Paul out.
In your comments, what would you keep?
The 2002 or the Azuzu?
It's not 2002.
It's a 1600.
But it does have an Alpina 2002 liter motor in it.
You've talked about in the last show.
It's a good one.
So yeah, buy one of them.
Make the Ed happy.
All right.
So we're on to segment four.
This or that.
New Year's Ed's New Year's resolutions are.
I bet you there are nothing like yours.
Get Paul to sell cars.
Make room for more consignments.
Make more money.
This or that.
That is about right.
You nailed it.
That is dad.
I know you're watching, listening.
I will do my best.
This or that.
New Year's version.
Choose two car options that tie into reaching your New Year's resolutions.
No budget limit.
I had to really think about this one.
I'll go first because mine's pretty easy.
So we're going to go to Germany and we're going to go to Italy on the same trip.
And we're going to be doing a lot of driving.
I think the two to maybe four hours per day on average when we're driving.
We're not just driving constantly like Paul's going to be, but you get the idea.
So the question is what would be, and these are viable rental cars.
I've already checked into this.
What could we rent for that amount of time?
And we've been there before.
We've been our travel agent as I found out after we arrived was not a car guy.
So he put us some God awful alphas.
Oh, no, no.
He put us in some freaking French cars, which, oh, unbelievable.
All right.
So my choice is that I've given myself, let me see.
Okay.
So we could rent a, no, no, we can't rent one of those.
Sorry.
I'm lying.
Isn't that what you already have at home?
Yeah, we do.
Alfa Romeo, Julia Quadrifoglio.
Let me, that's like going to 31 flavors ice cream and getting a triple scoop of vanilla.
Yeah, that's true.
But let me, let me find, you know what, Paul, why don't you go first?
I got to find my pictures.
All right.
So if I was going to Hill Country, I tied him into what I'm doing.
Hill Country Rally, no budget limit.
I am for this car, this was me loading it onto the trailer.
It was owned by the owner of our building.
It's a 73 RS Touring.
I love the Tourings.
I think that's where they're really cool with the metal bumpers, metal trim.
And this is in my favorite color.
One of my favorite colors, chartreuse, which I was suggesting to your friend,
John, for his back date.
Look how bad asset looks.
I got the privilege of driving this car out of his shop, a mere 100 feet,
to load onto a trailer almost exactly a year ago.
I don't know exactly what it sold for, but it was an Italian car,
which only Italian delivered.
The very first owner painted it black, kind of like the picture you have there, Dave.
And then it came back and in Southern California got restored back to chartreuse.
I'm guessing it sold a year ago for $800 to a million dollars because it was
superb.
Houndstooth per the COA interior.
The car roads.
The car roads.
It was just restraint restoration done like it looked original.
So I'm driving that to Hill Country.
And I may send it to you, Dave, to put air conditioning.
I love air conditioning.
Now, this is one of my dream cars.
I don't know if I've talked about it before,
but this is what I'm driving to the frickin' ice race.
Tim, do you know what an SCRS is?
Do you remember John across the way from TLG?
Oh, yeah, John.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, John.
So he built a perfect one-for-one replica of one of those.
Yes, I actually sold that car for him.
Yeah, that was awesome.
And it went back, I think it went back to Maryland.
It went back to the East Coast.
And then it popped up and bring a trailer.
For listeners, it's a nine.
Which not a lot of people know about these.
I didn't until John was building it.
It's a 911 SCRS coupe.
Yep, it's an 84, which the SCs had already ended.
It was built for Group B, which if you remember,
Group B rally was the craziest high point.
And it really wasn't that competitive.
They built, I want to say, like 21 of these cars.
Most of them went to Pro Drive and became that famous Rothman
livery.
What's cool about this one was it was restored by Porsche.
It really, it had like one 14th place win.
Little trick.
If you have an unsuccessful race car, that means it survives.
And it actually becomes worth a little bit more.
It does have FIA history.
It has the Lollipop seats.
But here's the cool thing.
This is back the very end of the era where these were street legal rally cars
because they had to drive to and from each stage on the street and be registered.
Obviously not in California.
This one sold recently at the Chattanooga auction about a year ago for two million.
And just imagine that on snow tires, driving it in the snow, doing that shit.
By the way, that was my other choice.
That is the Borg-Waldegard SC rally car, predecessor to the SCRS.
And really the only thing problem with the SCRS is it failed
because by then everyone was going to turbo charging and it just wasn't competitive.
You know, interesting question.
David, this is tiling in that build you're doing for John H.
I wonder if he would consider considering that car's already a G body opposed to making it do
an F body, whether he would do something like that to make it maybe a little bit more without,
you know, I'm just we talked.
We talked about a lot of options.
He loved this look.
Yeah, I don't play it.
He too.
He too.
It's a good look.
Yeah, he's not he's not wrong.
I love the SCRS, but the problem even with the one that John Esposito did,
it was so SCRS is no one knows what the hell they are.
Even Porsche guys don't know what they are.
And it's so subtle and it's so plain.
It's it's sort of like if you know, you know, and that's what I love about it.
Like you show up at Big Sky in a real SCRS.
That is like pheromones to those guys.
They are just going to be losing themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think I find that appealing.
A bunch of guys chasing me because of my car.
But Paul, whatever, you know, I'm not judging pheromones, baby.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's not Puerto Rico, but it's all I got.
Oh, OK.
I get you.
David, I think you're next.
Oh, OK.
Well, fair fair enough.
So this car behind me is actually similar to what I think we're going to try to come up with here.
This happens to be an 87.
So it is a G50 car, but it was one on bring a trailer that did not sell.
It was very nicely done.
The car had a Bahama.
It is Bahama yellow.
And I think candidly, I think there was two things that held this car back from not closing.
I think it was this color, which is very specific.
You love it or you hate it typically on Bahama.
And number two was when it closed, because I actually think this car closed on Thanksgiving day.
So I think this car is probably, it was a back to our conversations we've had, Paul.
It was a triple dipper as a BAT car.
So this car had been back.
This was the third time it was back.
First time before a lot of work had been done with it, it sold in the 50s.
Next time around, it sold in the 160s.
And then I think it only got up into the 120s or 130s.
I'd have to look real quick and see what it did not sell.
No.
So I think this is probably a 175 car is what this car would be, in my opinion, given, I mean,
they did some nice interior work here.
Well, you know, some nice woven leather.
And what was it?
What was the engine on it?
I can't remember.
It's a stock.
It's a stock 32.
That was that car.
I'll tell you right now.
That's where it could be it.
I mean, let me double check that before I before I say that for sure,
because they could have built that a little bit.
It did.
It sold for 165 back when it sold the last time.
And then let me just see real quick.
That's rebuilt under current ownership.
Now it looks like a stock.
It's it's it's got a it was increased to 34.
Okay.
I mean, this is a nice build.
Don't get me wrong.
This is a very nice build.
I think it probably would have sold it once 175.
But this is kind of what and when I say budget build,
it's like not trying to do anything crazy to the car.
It's it's nicely done.
It's a good look.
It's perfect.
Um, and in that decos, did you guys see that someone actually put,
you never see people do that on back dates.
The the the side trip.
The rocker.
Yeah.
The rocker.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People never go back to other photo.
Yeah, because we know how expensive,
good looking rocker trim is.
I mean, that personally,
same reason I like the RS Tourings,
when you do a hot rod and you put a trim on it and steel bumpers,
I just think it elevates it because no one builds hot rods like that.
That begins to make it look more legitimate.
You know, and I, you know, I think I'm looking forward to what John builds.
I hope he, you know, takes your advice.
Well, we're going to follow along.
He's definitely a full throttle talk.
We'll be following along with our John H build.
Let me, let me, let me ask you a quick question.
Would you have done decos on the bumpers?
What do you guys think?
Since it's got the rocker trim,
would you have done the deco trim?
Yes.
Me too.
So John, if you listen, if you really want to tie it all together,
and I'm just going to say this, those wheels,
they're not, those aren't just put the rig.
They're too dishy.
No, they're, they look like they're 16, sevens and eights.
Yeah.
Or maybe they might be nines.
The hard part is the 16s always,
I went from 15s to 16s on my back date just because I go through tires like that.
And it was such, it got to the point where I couldn't do events
because I couldn't get tires in time.
You're limited to like a couple of tires.
So those are 15s that actually came on the car surprisingly.
Yeah.
No, so if you ordered, if you, that was an option,
you couldn't get 16, sevens and eights.
But if you want sevens and eights, you got 15s.
But now you're stuck with the 185 front and a 215 rear,
which you got a Pirelli CN36, which by the way,
aren't really stocked on the shelf.
Pirelli makes them whenever they just feel like making them in it.
And they're, they're almost too grand for a set.
So I'm always torn.
I'd love to look at the 15.
Tim, like you said, but then if you're actually going to use the car.
No, I am with you.
I agree.
Totally.
Okay.
So this was my other choice.
This is this or that.
If I recall our, the game we're playing here is this or that.
So we have the 87, what I think is probably a 175 car back date,
or this happens to be a 15 GT3, my 911 GT3, obviously a PDK car.
This car sold, I want to say sold for 130.
I got to look at my own notes here.
And this is what you would use on your, the GT rally.
Correct.
This would be, this was sort of, if I didn't have a GT3 RS.
And again, I'm just kind of playing the long here.
You know, this sold car for 127 was what this car sold for.
Has the, the upgraded the G6 motor that was the replacement motor in this car.
I think it's a G6.
Is that what it is?
Dave, if there's no budget limit, why wouldn't you get at least the 991.1 GT3 RS
instead of the GT3?
For 180.
I understand.
I totally understand what you're saying.
I would have, you know, if there was the no budget limit, this is what I wanted.
Right.
Perfect.
So this is what I would have put on.
That's what you should get.
Yes.
But I'm trying to, you know, be practical.
I appreciate what David's doing.
Cause those night, that generation of GT3s give me a freaking break.
I mean, honest to gosh, that is such a freaking bargain.
And I wouldn't, I wouldn't feel bad about driving.
I'm still going to feel a little bit bad about driving this car
on this rally.
You know, but I'm saying this car, I could drive and have a blast in and not sweat it.
Right.
It would be fine.
I wouldn't worry about, you know, some rock coming up and smacking my hood or something
like that.
I mean, it's just, this is the guilt free GT3.
And you would have, there we go.
You wouldn't have Kramer types coming up to you constantly asking about your spec.
Your spec.
Yes.
You know, by the way, just to note for another topic, and we would actually need real professionals
who understand what they're talking about.
I was just shooting from the hip.
There's this whole subject like 991.1 GT3s are thrown under the bus because of this perceived
and like the most misunderstood what is really wrong with them.
And the price values certainly reflect that 997.1s are another one where they're
get thrown under the bus 996s as well for some thing.
And I wish we would have people who actually knew what they were talking about going,
because I really think 991.1 GT3s.
It's not just because they came with PDK because you people,
a lot of people ordered PDK on the point twos.
But like the whole engine thing, every time I talk to a client about it,
the misunderstanding, they're like, oh, only those ones got new engines and this and
the little bit of research I've done.
I'm like, no, no, no, they all got new engines.
Oh, this one's the one that fails.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I think.
Well, so someone out there, someone out there, I know the answers.
I know the answers.
And write an article.
Dave, write an article about it.
I have the article written.
It's D mystify the 991.1 GT.
400 of those cars, 400 of them had bad motors.
They replaced all 400.
So write the article and then we'll start the next episode.
OK, very good.
It's done.
All right, so you're stepping on my pitch here.
So subscribe to the newsletter, fullthrottletalk.com,
or click the link down below.
And you can get David's article where he's going to explain, hopefully,
and hide nerd all the specifics as to answering Paul's question.
Yes.
So I didn't really basically compare.
I compare the three current VT3 versions, 991.1, 991.2, and 992.1,
all with PDKs so that we could keep the playing field even,
and the differences between the cars,
the differences between the PDKs and so on.
So my conclusion is, without a doubt, that's the buy right there.
That's the car.
130 grand, fantastic car.
No stress.
They look at the failure rates between the various cars.
And then the G8 engine, excuse me, the G6 engine
does not fail at any greater rate than any of these other cars.
We still need someone who works at Porsche, who builds these engines,
or really an engine builder, to talk about there was a G-series engine,
an E and an F. And every year, he goes by like,
those are no longer good.
The F's are good.
Oh, the F's aren't good.
You've got to have a G.
Dave, I still call bullshit.
OK, well then, between the two of you guys,
who's going to write the article?
Voluntary.
It's written.
Articles written.
OK, with all the using all the nomenclature that Kramer just wrote.
Yeah, engines, numbers, all this kind of stuff.
Check GTP health.
You know, it's all good.
OK, we're impressed you know your ABCs.
All right, let's move on.
So here you are, buddy.
I know.
So here are my two choices.
I'll keep this to sync.
And these are literally the two cars
that Julie and I are considering renting when we were in Europe.
So that is an Audi RS4 Avant.
It's funny.
I called it Artie because our RS6 Avant, we call it Artie.
That's his name because the salesperson I got it from was named Artie.
I know you guys don't care, but I was going to poison you
with that information anyway.
Or second choice.
You get a picture of Artie?
No, Artie's not coming to Europe with us.
So but that's an RS4, yes, Avant, or that, an M4 Touring.
Oh, so it's not the M5, so it's small.
Yeah, I don't like big cars.
Other than, yeah, I would definitely.
Because if you've driven in Europe, what you have,
there are very few big roads aside from the Autostrada or the Autobahn,
and you're mostly driving on these little tiny effing villages,
and you do not want a big car in Europe.
So between the two, and we're going to be there for over 10 days.
BMW.
We're going to be living in the car.
All right, so BMW or the Audi?
What do you think?
BMW.
I mean, we rented an A6, the fastest one we could get in Germany,
and it was great because we weren't doing a lot of back roads.
We're on the Autobahn, and in talk about blending in,
we did not look like a tourist.
But if you're going to be driving fun, like we drove,
when we drove the A6 on the fun road, the gross Glocker pass,
boy, the Audi shows off its front-wheel bias, its front heavy nose,
and I think it's bigger than the A6's five-series size.
Right, but I was comparing essentially the downsides from the A6, right?
So the A4, or the M4.
But I think the BMW too, honestly.
BMW.
Yeah.
It looks, it looks, now can you choose color?
I know.
I would just see you at the rental desk.
I need to have a nice spec.
Well, you know this because you did this,
and they know what else is thinking about going to Europe.
If you start in Germany, it's actually really freaking easy
to get a 911 rental.
It just is.
Everybody and their brother, even hotels, have 911s you can rent.
I was astonished.
But would you want a 911 for a two-plus-week sojourn around Europe?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
There's no luggage space.
Does Alpina rent anything?
Oh, there you go.
That would be cool.
Yeah.
That would be awesome, wouldn't it?
Yeah.
So I think we've gotten through all of our topics, haven't we?
We did.
Oh my God.
We did.
You know, it's so hilarious.
I think we actually got through the show quicker
when there was four of us.
It's not good.
It's not good.
We have a problem.
I bet.
Yeah.
Good problem though.
Not a bad problem.
My name is Paul.
I have a problem.
So guys, next week, I know this will be a fun topic,
at least I think it will.
Next week, I want to do.
We had some ideas that came up.
What are we going to talk about next week on the show?
What was the build, the Russell build stuff?
One more details on the Russell build stuff.
Definitely.
Cars.
You mentioned, Tim, something about new cars you're excited about
coming out.
Not just me, but all of us, right?
So bring a list of maybe three cars that you're excited about.
And I'm going to write an article about it
so you guys can steal some of my ideas if you want to.
OK.
Let's have some fun next week.
So listen, guys.
Another full throttle talk is in the can.
Thank you for listening to us every single week.
It is our passion to do this for you.
Please do like and subscribe.
And if you're on YouTube, definitely like and subscribe.
It helps us to get the word out.
It helps us to encourage us to do more shows.
If you're on iTunes, please give us
five stars and a piffy comment.
Guys, I feel goofy saying all of that.
But the reality of it is, is if you don't,
the algorithms essentially make the show go away.
So we're counting on you to help us have the motivation
to keep the show alive.
We want to keep doing it.
So please do like and subscribe.
And encourage us along the way.
And definitely subscribe to the newsletter fullthrottletalk.com.
In the meantime, guys, it's New Year's Eve.
Any New Year's plans?
Rolled.
Out to dinner.
I'm actually going to go to the office and work.
That's pathetic.
We're going to go watch fireworks.
And tomorrow, in honor of all the wonderful New Year's
day drives we used to do here in Southern California,
we're going to take the Ferrari 296 out.
There'll be nobody on the road.
We're going to go on a nice and no-pull,
not just driving a loop around Puerto Rico.
And it's actually going to rain today, tomorrow,
New Year's Day.
So all the New Year's drives are off.
It's actually ready to rain for over a week.
So we're finally tasting what the rest of the country has
to go through this season.
So boo-hoo.
You guys can come down and mess with us in Puerto Rico.
More than welcome.
All right.
See you tomorrow.
Happy New Year, everyone.
Happy New Year.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
About this episode
A lively discussion kicks off with insights on the best times to sell cars, reflecting on personal experiences and market trends. The hosts share their automotive news, including a unique Porsche restoration project and the latest in car values. They delve into the dynamics of the car market, discussing the impact of color choices and options on resale value. The episode wraps up with personal automotive goals for the new year, including exciting rally plans and the anticipation of upcoming car events.
Original notes
Welcome back to Full Throttle Talk — the automotive show for people who probably need a financial advisor, a driving coach, and fewer cars bookmarked on Bring a Trailer.
This week:
Tim wins a SIM race (we checked — hell is still warm, but not frozen)
Paul drives the GT3 to Good Vibes / Newcombs like a pilgrimage to Mecca… but with more tire smoke
Dave lists the Talbot Yellow ’79 SC on BaT and the internet is already fighting in the comments
A Puerto Rican collector sends a Carrera GT back to Porsche and gets a full Sonderwunsch rebuild with Salzburg livery 🤯
The ID. Buzz quietly takes a nap until 2026
A tragic crash in a Ferrari 296 GTS claims the life of Vince Zampella
And we make 2026 automotive New Year’s resolutions we are 100% not qualified to achieve
CONNECT WITH US
Paul Kramer — 714-335-4911 | [email protected] | Instagram/FB: @autokennel
David Van Epps — 704-799-7680 | [email protected] | Instagram/FB: @sonderwerks
Tim Harris — 512-758-0206 (text only) | [email protected]
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