The Late Braking F1 Podcast May 31, 2026

Is Alpine's Gucci partnership the start of something bigger?

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64:51

Brand

Gucci

Gucci is a luxury fashion brand. The hosts are arguing that a brand like Gucci makes sense for F1 because it targets a similar “premium” audience.

Brand

PSG

PSG is a big football club from Paris. They’re using it as an example of how fashion and sports brands team up and create a really distinctive look.

Brand

Jordan

Jordan is a sportswear brand. They mention it to show how fashion brands can team up with sports clubs to make special-looking kits.

Brand

Dior

Dior is a luxury fashion brand. They’re using it as an example of how high-end fashion can show up on sports team designs.

Brand

Nike

Nike is a sportswear brand. They mention it as part of the example of big brands collaborating on team clothing.

Brand

Alpine

Alpine is the F1 team they’re talking about. They’re saying Alpine’s new style and colors make it stand out to fans.

Term

livery

In F1, “livery” means the car’s paint and design—its colors and graphics. Teams use it to look like themselves, and fans often remember certain liveries for years.

Person

Luca D'Ameo

Luca D'Ameo is a business leader. The hosts are saying his decisions about hiring and firing are a clue about where Alpine is heading.

Term

title sponsor

A title sponsor is the main sponsor that gets top billing for a team. In F1, it usually means the sponsor pays a lot and gets the most prominent branding.

Topic

2015 Hungarian Grand Prix

They bring up the 2015 Hungarian Grand Prix as an example. The point is to show that F1 sponsorship has evolved a lot over the last decade.

Term

MoneyGram

MoneyGram is a company that has sponsored F1 teams. The hosts are using it as an example of how sponsor lineups change over time.

Term

Rocket

Rocket is another sponsor name the hosts mention. They’re using it to show how many different companies have tried sponsoring F1 teams.

Term

Flexbox

Flexbox is mentioned as an example of a sponsor that sounds weird for F1. The hosts are basically saying some sponsor choices feel out of place.

Concept

ridiculous sponsors in Formula One across the 90s

They’re talking about how, back in the 1990s, some F1 sponsors were really strange. The idea is that sponsorships weren’t always serious or believable.

Concept

Nigerian princes coming along to sponsor F1 teams

They’re referencing a well-known scam story about a “Nigerian prince.” The point is that some sponsor rumors in F1 are fake and never actually materialized.

Brand

Auricolor HP

Auricolor HP is mentioned as another sponsor brand. The host is using it as a comparison point for how big different sponsorship deals are.

Brand

BWT

BWT is another sponsor brand mentioned for comparison. The host is basically saying Gucci’s deal is bigger money than what BWT was paying.

Concept

aren't anymore creating their own engines

This refers to an F1 team no longer designing and building its own engines, which shifts the team toward relying on an external engine supplier. That can reduce development complexity and cost, and it changes how sponsorship income impacts the team’s overall ability to compete.

Brand

Adidas

Adidas is used as an example of a sportswear brand that already shows up in racing sponsorships. The host is saying luxury brands might start doing the same thing.

Brand

Puma

Puma is another sportswear brand mentioned as part of the usual sponsor mix. The host is using it to set up the idea that luxury fashion could become common too.

Brand

Prada

Prada is mentioned as an example of a luxury fashion brand. The host thinks brands like this could start sponsoring F1 teams more often.

Brand

Louis Vuitton

Louis Vuitton is another luxury brand mentioned as a possible future sponsor. The host is suggesting luxury fashion could become a regular part of F1 sponsorship.

Brand

Mercedes

Mercedes is one of the big Formula 1 teams. The discussion here is about how a new engine rule (compression ratio) could force Mercedes to change its engine setup, which can affect how fast they are. So their results may swing depending on how well they adapt.

Brand

McLaren

McLaren is another major Formula 1 team. In this segment, they’re described as being affected by the same engine rule changes as Mercedes, meaning they may need to update their engines too. That can change how competitive they are.

Term

power unit

In F1, the “power unit” means the whole engine package, not just the part that burns fuel. It includes systems that store and reuse energy to help the car go faster. So if the power unit changes, the car’s speed and feel can change too.

Term

compression ratio

Compression ratio is how tightly an engine squeezes the air-fuel mixture inside the cylinder. If the rules force teams to use a certain squeeze level (like 16:1 to 18:1), the engine may make less power or behave differently, especially as temperatures change. That can make some teams faster and others slower.

Term

rule set

A rule set is the official set of technical rules teams have to follow in racing. Here, the rules specify what the engine’s compression ratio must be, even when conditions change. Teams have to adjust their engines to stay within those limits.

Brand

Red Bull

Red Bull is a top Formula 1 team. The host is saying the new engine rule could also hurt or help Red Bull, depending on how they respond. So their speed could change when teams update engines to match the rules.

Brand

Williams

Williams is another Formula 1 team. The host is saying the new engine rule about compression ratio could affect Williams too. If they have to update their engines to comply, their race performance could change.

Term

ADUO system

An “ADUO system” is a special tech feature on an F1 car. The hosts are saying it can help a team get an advantage, especially when other teams are struggling with a related issue.

Term

constructor's championship

The constructor’s championship is the points race between teams. It’s based on how both cars in the team do, not just one driver.

Term

driver's championship

The driver’s championship is the points race between individual drivers. Each driver earns points based on where they finish in races.

Term

D&Fs

D&Fs means “Did Not Finish” results, where a car fails to complete the race due to mechanical issues, crashes, or other problems. In F1 standings, multiple D&Fs can swing points quickly because the affected driver/team scores little or nothing.

Term

out the box

“Out the box” means right away, without extra tuning or learning. The point is that Mercedes likely knows the system better, so they get results faster.

Term

customer

A “customer” team is one that buys or receives parts/technology from another team or manufacturer. They may need time to learn how to get the best performance from it.

Topic

Australia

They’re talking about how the team looked early in the season in Australia, before improvements later on.

Term

engine upgrade

An engine upgrade is when an F1 team brings a newer, improved version of the engine parts. Even if it’s faster on paper, the team may need a couple races to get the car working with it perfectly.

Person

Lando Norris

Lando Norris is an F1 driver for McLaren. They’re talking about how he won the drivers’ championship recently, but this year hasn’t been as consistently strong.

Place

Miami

Miami is where one of the F1 races takes place. They’re using it as an example of when Norris was doing well.

Person

Oscar Piatri

Oscar Piastri is an F1 driver. They’re saying he’s had some bad luck this season, but he also had one standout race at Suzuka.

Place

Suzuka

Suzuka is a famous race track in Japan that hosts an F1 race. They’re saying Piastri had one really good result there compared with the rest of the season.

Term

2030, 2031

They’re talking about 2030/2031 as a likely time for a big new set of F1 rules. When that happens, teams often plan development around the new rules rather than the current ones.

Term

engines were frozen

An “engine freeze” is when F1 rules stop teams from making big updates to their engines for a while. With engines locked in, teams have to win more by improving things like car handling and body shape.

Term

aero and chassis

“Aero” is how the car’s shape affects airflow, which helps it stick to the track. “Chassis” is the main structure and suspension setup that controls how the car handles.

Term

engine development is back

When the speaker says “engine development is back,” they mean F1 rules allow teams to resume meaningful power-unit upgrades. That shifts the competitive balance back toward engine performance, not just aerodynamic and chassis improvements.

Term

2027

The speaker mentions 2027 because F1 has scheduled rule changes around then. Those changes can affect what teams are allowed to do with their engines and how they build the cars.

Term

engine being a lot cheaper

Here “engine” means the car’s main power system in Formula 1. The hosts are saying that future rules could make these power units cheaper, which would change how teams plan and budget over the next decade.

Person

Felix Rosimus

Felix Rosimus is being congratulated for winning the Indy 500 for the first time. The Indy 500 is a major race, so a first win is a big deal.

Topic

Formula E

Formula E is a racing series where the cars are electric. Drivers use it to prove they can race at a high level, even if they’re not in Formula 1.

Topic

Indy 500

The Indy 500 is a huge race in the U.S., held on an oval track. The discussion here is about whether Formula 1 drivers can also do well in that kind of race.

Person

Daniel Ricciardo

Daniel Ricciardo is a Formula 1 driver. The host brings him up while discussing the Indy 500 and whether F1 drivers might compete there.

Person

Fernando Alonso

Fernando Alonso is a famous Formula 1 driver. Here, they’re saying he helped show that it’s possible to compete in more than just F1.

Person

Ericsson

Ericsson is referenced as someone who won the Indy 500. The host is using that as proof that success at Indy is possible, even if it’s not guaranteed.

Topic

24 hours

They’re talking about endurance racing that lasts 24 hours. Instead of just racing for a short time, drivers have to stay consistent and keep the car running for a whole day.

Topic

European formula system

In Europe, there’s a set of junior race series that young drivers move through. The hosts are saying many F1 drivers come from that path, but some go elsewhere too.

Person

Takuma Sato

Takuma Sato is a professional race driver. The hosts mention him in the context of drivers moving between major open-wheel series like IndyCar and F1.

Person

Alexander Rossi

Alexander Rossi is a top-level race driver. The hosts bring him up as an example when they talk about how risky the Indy 500 can be.

Person

Daniel Ricardo

The host is saying that Daniel Ricciardo (the F1 driver) should consider racing in the Indy 500. They think it could help his career and make him more popular with fans.

LIVE

Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday.

Hello and a very warm welcome to the Late Breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hawking, back for another Sunday episode.

No F1 this week, but Sam, we're starting to get into a bit of a run of F1 after this week.

We seem to have had like five races in five months and we're now just going to be hit with them one after the other.

And you know what? I'm okay with that.

Yeah, I don't like running at the best of times, but if I have to run into anything, it's a number of F1 races, because that means we have a good time.

And that's the only time I'm having a good time when I'm moving fast and then sitting down on the sofa.

So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

And look at us. We've managed to complete a whole intro without complaining about the heat.

I wasn't actually going to mention it. I feel like I've written about it.

Yeah, well done. Part of the back, we really are the best of people.

I'm not sure about that.

Yeah, we're going to prove that we're not the best of people in that we've got Monaco coming up next week and we never have anything bad to say about Monaco.

But before we get there, we've got plenty to talk about.

On today's episode, we've got a game of F1 back and back coming up later on.

Sam got hags.

The newest game show where Sam cannot lose.

We've got Mohammed Ben-Sullyam and possibly Removing Term Limits.

We've got McLaren, a bit of chat about where they're at at the moment early on in this 26th season.

But we're going to start with some news that came out this week.

Haven't had much of that recently.

News being that Gucci will enter Formula One next year as title sponsor of Alpine in a multi-year deal worth an estimated $50 to $60 million per season.

Although bonus clauses tied to performance could take the total value up to $50 to $60 million per season.

The team is expected to be rebranded as Gucci Racing Alpine F1 team with new black and gold branding featuring Gucci's logo, which will feature prominently on the 2027 car.

Gucci won significant car branding presence, though Alpine aims to retain some of its own blue identity.

The partnership will also extend beyond the car to include team apparel, paddock gear, and performance products for staff and drivers.

This one, at least to me, Sam, kind of came out the blue. I was a bit stunned by this.

It came out the blue indeed.

But in terms of partnerships and the way that they work with the sport of Formula One, the level of luxury is the high value, the customer base.

I think Gucci fits absolutely perfectly.

It's a no-brainer.

You look at incredible collaborations between sporting brands around the world and high-class sporting outfits or fashion outfits.

It fits perfectly in that mould.

You've got PSG at the moment.

We've just won the Champions League and they've got a kit that's coming out at the moment that's mixing Jordan, Dior, Nike itself, and of course the PSG brand.

And that's obviously pinnacle Paris.

It's fashion.

It makes sense and it works.

It's almost a collector's item.

I think the same thing can be said here.

I think Alpine have just elevated themselves by being the blue team with the pink bit on the side if you're a new F1 fang.

And you kind of don't really get the livery to now being this kind of fashion assassin almost where they just look absolutely gorgeous.

And how many times have we said that black and gold is a livery works so well?

You don't have to look at the Lotus, right?

The John play a special Lotus to be iconic.

Now, if they can make something even 50% as iconic as that, then we've got a great livery on our hands.

And if you know me, you know that I absolutely love livery watch.

So I'm very excited.

Pin My F1 started early.

Yeah, bring up.

Goot Chief, you want to get involved?

I'm all right with that.

Let me know.

I'm looking forward to this.

I think just from a spectator, from a person who enjoys F1 and the world that we're in, I'm really excited by this partnership.

I think it's a really natural fit and I'm glad it's happened.

I think it's really cool.

Sam says, hit us up, Goot Chief, to sponsor Pin My F1 in 2027.

In completely separate news, Goot Chief and Alpine have won 2027 Pin My F1 with an unprecedented score of 100 out of 10.

Well done, Goot Chief.

Great job.

Entry to the sport has gone well.

Yeah.

I was pretty stunned by this.

But on a second look, I guess it does make a lot of sense.

Goot Chief is owned by Kerring.

I'm not sure if that's the correct pronunciation.

Kerring, yes.

Yeah, of the parent company.

The CEO of that parent company is Luca D'Ameo.

Luca D'Ameo, for those of you who can't remember or don't know, was the former CEO of Renault, Renault being the parent company of Alpine.

So once you start to connect the dots, makes a lot of sense.

Bad news for Alpine and for Goot Chief is that if Luca D'Ameo is involved in this in any way whatsoever, this thing will be over in three months and we won't ever see the car.

And there goes the Goot Chief sponsorship for us.

Never mind.

Hey, I've always been a big fan of Luca D'Ameo and his hiring and firing strategies.

I think it's a sign of where not only where Alpine is right now, it's where F1 is right now to have claimed a title sponsor as lucrative as this.

I was looking back sort of 10 years ago.

We reviewed the 2015 Hungarian Grand Prix as part of our Patreon Historic Race Review series that you can watch on Patreon now.

And you look back at sort of 10, 11 years ago, there's only two or three title sponsors on the grid full stop.

And in between now and then even, we've had some pretty shoddy ones.

If you think of, and I mean, no disrespect to any of these companies that I am severing ties with and never getting on the podcast as a sponsor.

But I don't think you'll be too disappointed by these names.

But you remember MoneyGram and...

MoneyGram, I still remember them.

They were on the grid last year, weren't they?

Yeah, it wasn't that long ago.

But like you look at Rocket as well, that was...

Flexbox.

And we don't even need to go into the whole William Story rich energy nonsense.

You say black and gold can work on a car.

It can.

If it's not led by that muppet.

Yeah, no.

Where there is a great sponsor, there are tech and not so great sponsors.

And there are some...

I'm going to shout out another show here, but Donut Media do a really good job actually of documenting some of the most ridiculous sponsors in Formula One across the 90s.

Now, some of them are just completely fabricated as well.

And it's really fascinating to hear about things like Nigerian princes coming along to sponsor F1 teams that never actually happened.

It's quite fascinating.

So it's a delicate world.

It's an exciting world.

And it can lead to brilliant things.

As you mentioned, the evolution of what is sponsored in Formula One has grown monumentally.

And arguably the last five to seven years, we've seen a real increase where there were teams like Ferrari that would never have a title sponsor.

HP now sit proudly alongside that famous game.

And they pay, I think it's upwards of $90 million a year to be involved with that project.

So it's huge money for the teams that are involved.

And you look at...

It's not just HP.

You look at what we're likely looking at in terms of sponsors next year as well as Gucci.

You've got HP.

You've got Mastercard.

You've got Visa.

You've got Oracle.

Atlassian.

You've got Revolute as well for Audi.

Like these are all quite reputable names that we didn't really have in F1 10 years ago.

Gucci themselves being described as the first luxury brand to ever be a title sponsor in F1.

And again, I would draw your attention to Moneygram and say that's probably a luxury brand too.

But it's a real statement.

And it's a sign that these companies that previously wouldn't have been interested are now getting involved.

Gucci as part of this sort of media release mentioned that the average age of F1 followers now is 32, which I like.

Because that makes us young.

Come on.

We bring it down.

But I mean, 10 years ago, that number wasn't 32.

Like those brands that are trying to activate a younger audience, there is actual reason for them to be involved in F1 now.

And it's also demographics as well.

Gucci, by their own research, are saying that around half of new listeners, new watchers of F1 are women.

So there is, again, if you are, and I don't know what you would say, Sam, but Gucci to me kind of feels very targeting men and women roughly similarly.

Like it's...

You look at me, it screams Gucci.

So I get what you're saying.

Why do you direct this question over to me?

But yes.

It's probably 50-50ish, right?

It feels like...

I mean, fashion generally, I think, is still very much a woman's game.

I do think that, you know, you go down the high street, you look at websites.

It is the collections for women are wider when it comes to clothing.

I think men definitely also have different buying habits.

For example, women will buy in the balance of the season.

Men buy during the season because we're so short-minded that if we need an umbrella, we won't buy one in summer when it's discounting and get ready.

We'll wait till it rains outside and then go into a shop and buy an umbrella.

But I do think that Gucci are correct in saying that you look at the luxury collabs that have happened around Formula One.

We were just talking about the most recent Jackie Stuart collab that came out.

It's high prices for high quality items and Gucci are tapping into that.

I'm expecting replicas of race suits.

I'm expecting people to want to dress up like race engineers.

You know, you see these rip-off Ferrari jackets coming out everywhere.

You see team jackets being made by people on Etsy and things like that where they want to feel like a part of a team.

This is a gateway for Alpine to have some merch everywhere you go, but for Gucci to be the face of that merch.

I really think it's a great combination of brands.

I'm going to have to give credit to Tony Cowan Brown for this on Instagram as her real, managed to spot something that I hadn't.

And I was wondering if you'd seen this as well.

Gucci have put out, at least at the time of recording, they've put out three separate posts about their F1 sort of venture racing.

Right. Three posts on there, two of them, two images and then one video.

There's one thing that connects all three of them.

Exclude the caption and just focus on the image in the video.

There is not one mention of Alpine anywhere in all three.

Again, in the caption, they do mention it, obviously, but neither driver is featured in any of those three posts.

There's no Alpine team members.

There's no Alpine car. The name of Alpine is not there.

And I think it's very telling because Gucci are here for F1.

They're looking to capitalise on F1's name.

Alpine is a means by which to achieve that.

They aren't trying to capitalise on Alpine's name here.

It's just a vehicle.

Literally.

Literally is.

Do you also think contractually, when Pierre Gastly wins the first race of 2027,

he has to come over the radio and say, it's all Gucci, baby.

Yeah, I stopped listening when you said win.

Fantasyland.

What I do think is interesting about it is the value of the deal.

Of course, rumoured to be upwards of $150 million over what the 345 years together,

it is quite small in comparison to competitors that, yes, sit above them in the table,

but the overall value of Formula One has increased so much

that you think they might be able to bring out a little bit more cash.

We brought out HP at $90 million.

Oracle, I think you're $100 million a year, give or take.

And Master Car for McLaren sit around that $90 million as well.

Now, I know these are title-winning teams that are regularly come across this,

but with the way that F1 has grown so massively,

it's got the Apple deal recently that's coming as well only last year,

you would think that it would be a little closer to deals that were made around 2022, 2023.

Yet they seem to be able to gather that much cash and come from Gucci.

Yeah, it's interesting because it is still quite in advance on what they've got at the moment with BWT.

I can't remember where exactly that number sits,

but I think it's about maybe 50% of what Gucci will be.

So it's a real advancement for Alpine, but yeah, you're right,

it still sits below some of these other bigger teams

and maybe that is related to the team's success.

I'm not too sure.

What do you make of maybe Gucci's other intentions outside of just being the title sponsor?

They're saying here they're going to be involved in activations,

they're going to be involved in products for the team, for example.

What do you make of their involvement there?

Makes social sense.

If you're going to spend this much money to be discommitted to the overall journey,

I think, again, as you mentioned, they're not here for Alpine,

they're here to be recognized as Formula One.

And you're seeing how brand sponsorships can evolve.

Sergio Perez, of course, a couple of years ago,

brought in KitKat as a sponsor of himself personally.

Now look what's happened to KitKat.

They're now the official chocolate provider of Formula One,

and you could buy tiny little Formula One KitKat cars that you could get in packets.

Not sponsored.

We're not, but I love chocolate, so KitKat also.

And if you do form these relationships,

you start to evolve in the conversation.

If Gucci could be the first luxury clothing brand to really establish itself

as a home name of Formula One,

a name that you directly recognize one next to another,

who's to say that in four or five years' time,

when Formula One's around to go,

we want a luxury clothing provider to have merch that rolls out across all stores globally?

Well, Gucci are really involved. It makes an actual fit here.

The same with being at the race track.

If you've seen how you can activate at-tracks, right?

It's the same at all sporting events. You get pop-up stores.

And I say we've been victims of this ourselves.

You know, us lot have turned up to pop-up stores.

We bought merch, right? You were wearing an Austin shirt just the other day.

I was wearing my Canada shirt the other day that I bought at Austin.

But the point is, you turn up and you buy things.

We bought hats. I've got big jumpers that I've bought there.

People will buy this stuff if it is cool-looking,

and it represents the sport that you love.

I do think it's a really big opportunity for someone like Gucci to pick up their pop-up store,

put it down at every race track around the globe,

and go, come in and buy, yeah, there'll be some Alpine merch in there,

in the corner, in the back over there.

In the bargain bins, like just...

Yeah, yeah, behind the...

...midline of Audi kind of style.

See, the guy on the back of the shop is just there.

But in the shop itself, there's a lot of Gucci stuff that you could pick up.

It's got a little F1 logo on it as well.

And I do think that that's what they're wrangling to appeal to.

Yeah, I feel like if this is done correctly,

Gucci could be the blueprint, possibly,

for other similar brands to get involved in F1.

I wouldn't be surprised at that at all.

And I'm not surprised by what Gucci is saying here

about how they'll be involved in F1,

because if you are Gucci and you want to enter the sport,

they operate on prestige and luxury

and want to be seen as associated with Gucci.

You can't then turn up and then have Alpine looking

the worst team on the grid.

I don't just mean out on track, which they have been in the past.

I just mean how they actually look.

They're an image brand now.

Right, and they are saying they will make sure

that Alpine are sort of kitted out

in whatever they're planning to do.

They are going to have to look the best,

because if you are Gucci, that's how you thrive,

is by looking the best.

Colla Pinto's going to look so bloody good, man.

The drip on Colla Pinto.

He's already got the Riz.

And now he's going to have the drip.

It's going to be ridiculous.

The man can't be stopped.

The Riz drip.

Best winter of all time,

because it's the best life of all time.

My God.

Fair play, Franco.

I wanted to ask you as well about Alpine a bit more generally,

because Alpine have been rumoured to be thinking about selling

the entire team maybe for a few years now,

and nothing's properly materialised.

We've got news just over the last couple of days

that apparently Mercedes are no longer interested

in that 24% stake that Otra Capital currently owned,

because the asking price is too high.

But do you think this move in particular towards Gucci,

does that make the team easier or more difficult to sell?

I actually think it's more difficult to sell.

I think such a prominent brand who are looking for stability,

they want, as we mentioned,

they want to being here for the long haul.

This could be a template for how other brands work.

You don't want a team that's going through a turmoil,

that's got share prices dropping,

that looks like it's a bit of a bargain being in the corner.

Gucci never wants to be associated with being the cheapest thing

on the market.

And I wouldn't be surprised if a big part

of the sponsorship conversation was,

how are you planning to handle the potential sale of this company

if we were to still be around and would we be put along with it?

Because if to be a title sponsor, someone like Gucci,

imagine if a brand that they internally disagree with

comes along and buys that team,

it will fracture the entire point of what they're looking to do.

I do think that this is adding a real layer of complexity

and increased cost and longevity

to what the overall move is with buying out this team.

So I'm not surprised that Mercedes are going,

we're no longer getting a good deal to pick up

maybe a little secondary team on the grid

that we used to have with Williams when they were struggling.

We're now getting a fully-fledged F1 team

that has got proper sponsorship, long-term plans,

and two drivers that are currently doing a really good job on the racetrack.

It's suddenly become a bit more difficult to invest in Alpine

because they're doing better,

which weirdly is quite an odd direction to be in.

I could see it going both ways, to be honest,

to give my best Harry Eid impression.

Thanks, I can see you.

Yeah, because the whole idea of Alpine selling

is to be able to develop an attractive proposition

for someone coming in.

So that includes, it's a real package,

it includes the engine,

which obviously is now Mercedes,

it includes the infrastructure,

it includes things like the driver academy,

and it includes a title sponsor in Gucci,

which if someone is considering investing in Alpine,

that suddenly become a lot more attractive to them.

Gucci is a big get in that regard,

but it could work the other way in that Gucci,

I know they're not maybe hitting the numbers of Auricolor HP,

but they are paying quite a bit more than BWT currently are.

It actually means that Alpine,

who aren't anymore creating their own engines,

who have a title sponsor that are giving a good amount each year,

it's becoming cheaper and more attractive for Alpine to stay in the sport

because they can take advantage of being associated with F1

without the costs that they were maybe incurring in 2024 and 2025.

So I can actually see this one going both ways.

It'd be interesting.

I also think that this will open up the door for many other teams

to start having a luxury clothing provider.

As we've seen, every tiny thing gets sponsored,

everyone has a fitness drink,

they all have sportswear providers,

where you have Adidas or Puma or Castor or someone like that.

You now will have, I think,

luxury outerwear providers coming in,

you'll see a Prada, Louis Vuitton or someone like that.

I'm going to ask the marketing boss, I think,

you know, it will start to become a regular platform for Formula One.

Let's take a quick break.

On the other side, we'll just wrap up this chat

because there are a few comments from Flavio Briatoria wanting to get to

in regards to the lineup rather than Gucci,

and then we'll also get into some chat about McLaren.

Welcome back, everyone.

I just wanted to finish up on some Alpine chat

because outside of this deal that Flavio Briatoria

was very instrumental in putting together,

he was also asked by the race about the team's driver plans for 2027,

who will be those first Gucci drivers in F1.

Briatoria said,

we don't know what's going to happen with Mercedes.

We don't know if Mercedes will pick up Max or whatever,

so let's see what we have in the house before we proceed.

Classic Flavio giving both of his drivers a real pat on the back.

We've got you.

No, we'll just see what happens elsewhere.

Also, the phrase in the house.

He's already talking like he's part of a house of fashion.

He's like, you know, in the house of Gucci,

who have we got that could come in?

The absolute audacity from Flavio to be like,

I'm going to wait and see what I'm saying first.

Hold on.

Everyone, hold on a minute.

I just want to see what goes on with George Russell and Kimmy Anteagaly

because their first stop after getting booted from a title winning team

will be obviously here.

This is obviously where they're coming next, the next best thing.

I'd go back to F2, man.

What are you doing?

You've got a good thing going.

Pierre Gasly is one of the most underrated drivers on the grid.

He scored points in every single Grand Prix so far this season.

And Franco Colopinto is hanging two best race weekends

of his career back to back.

Why are you demoralising the guys?

I mean, I know it's not winter anymore,

but stop putting Franco down.

He's doing a good job for crying out loud.

I can't believe.

I mean, it can.

It's Flav, but I can't actually believe that he's come out with this

and said, I'm just going to wait to see what goes on with Mercedes first.

Like, that's a natural thing to do.

I don't know if Flavio Berietori genuinely believes

like if the Stappen went to Mercedes

and one of Russell and Anteagaly became available,

they're like, oh, we'll take whichever one they lose

because Alpine will be the obvious next stop.

Mercedes power unit, obviously.

Like, there's the connection there.

Yeah, that's going to happen.

Or if he actually means something like the domino effect of if they then went

whoever was the loser in that situation went somewhere else,

would that mean someone else becomes available?

I understand why he's not fully committing to going early on this.

Like, you would rather be...

There is a trickle down effect.

Yeah.

This could actually happen.

But even then, why do you think that drivers of a better caliber

than what you have now would be so readily available to come to Alpine?

I think he's in a good spot with what he's got.

I think he is as well.

And to be honest, I think he knows that.

But I understand why publicly he's being more coy about this right now

because, again, I don't think he wants to unnecessarily scare off people

who might be considering Alpine as an option in the future if they need it.

I think maybe the difference between Berietori

and all of the other 10 team principles,

because Flav technically doesn't want himself.

I think everyone else is maybe thinking the same thing as Berietori

in terms of, like, let's just see how everything plays out.

Don't want to commit.

Anyone else would probably come out and say,

look, our two drivers are doing a great job right now.

Love what Pierre Gasly's been doing.

He's contracted until the end of next year, or maybe even two years from now.

Franco Colopinto has had his best couple of races in the Alpine

in the last two races, really happy with where we're at.

We're going to keep going.

Look for that consistency from Franco as we go throughout the summer

and then we'll make decisions later in the year.

Most would say a better worded version of that.

Flavio would say something like this.

Yeah.

You just think, I think Flavio, if you were to look up the definition of

treat them mean, keep them keen, it would just be Flav's face.

Because I think it does kind of work for the business he runs

where you're almost like, oh, please, please, Flav, just like me.

Just please, you know, that time that you hugged someone,

it was like the best thing ever.

You think it's just that one-time Flav hug you because he likes you.

It's such a difficult relationship to have with this guy.

You're going to have to please him.

Yeah.

I do think as well he might just be keeping Colopinto on his toes

because that's the kind of manager he is.

But he has also...

We've got Monica coming up next.

Very true.

He has also had some words of encouragement as well for Colopinto.

Outside of this quote, I have seen some positivity towards him as well.

So important to mention that for some balance.

It's not just...

It's not all bad.

Yeah.

Very interesting.

Let's move on to McLaren, shall we?

Because after Canada, McLaren trail Mercedes in the constructors championship

by over 100 points.

It's 219 to 106 right now.

So even with Mercedes not having a brilliant weekend

with a retirement of one of their cars in the main Grand Prix.

It's still a pretty massive deficit at this stage in the season.

They're obviously defending both titles this year, Sam,

for the first time in a very long time.

Either of these titles still possible.

It's hard to be too optimistic for them right now.

And I do think there's a number of reasons why.

But the positive I want to go with first is the chassis, the car itself.

It looks like they've got a really well put together car.

And after a really tricky start to this season

where some of that points deficit you'll remember is because

they basically didn't have a car running into the first Grand Prix, especially.

So they lost out on a huge number of points.

So the gap would actually be a bit smaller

if the car was able to actually get itself out

or pedestrian wasn't in the wall in Australia.

But that would bring the gap down to what?

We're thinking 70 points at best, maybe.

The negatives here are everything that Mercedes has going well for it,

contractually, McLaren are under the same obligations.

So when McLaren are good, Mercedes are good.

And slightly better.

But if something were better to happen to Mercedes,

especially their power unit, which of course the ADUO systems coming out,

the compression ratio is now in effect.

They'll have to bring different engines, of course,

to satisfy the rule set where the compression ratio at all temperatures

has to be 16 to 1 or 18 to 1.

This is massively affecting Mercedes and potentially Red Bull.

McLaren are also affected by this, as are Alpine, for example, as are Williams.

We will see a shift in performance.

And this will be another hurdle that someone like McLaren will have to overcome.

Whilst teams like Ferrari will not have to overcome this.

They will not have to deal with this problem.

They will get a benefit from the ADUO system.

They will get a benefit from what happens to change in the compression ratio.

Their chassis is as good as the McLaren car already.

So I think whilst they may overcome the hurdle,

but Mercedes are also stepping backwards, other teams will step forwards.

And I think, unfortunately, due to the start of this season,

it feels very unlikely that McLaren are going to have enough

to muster any difference between those other two teams around them.

Yeah, the points deficits themselves,

I don't think should scare McLaren too much right now.

We've seen a bigger overhaul before.

Yeah, even though it does sound pretty scary,

like that constructor's championship is well over 100 points,

the driver's championship isn't looking much better.

They were 87 points down in 2024 after 11 rounds.

And they were leading the championship after 17 rounds.

So these things can turn around quite quickly with a few D&Fs,

an upturn in performance.

And obviously, in 2024, they went on to win that constructor's championship

as well as last year.

So even though it is over 100 right now, is it 113 after five races?

It's by no means over.

I mean, we've still got as many as maybe 17 races this year,

could be a couple more than that,

depending on what they do with the calendar.

And I think where we're at in terms of the regulations as well,

you've already mentioned ADUO and what might happen there.

There's so many different things that could still happen this year.

There's opportunities for all of these teams

to improve their performance right now.

We're still very early in that development cycle,

means that there are maybe bigger waves of performance

or upgrade performance.

We've got the cost cap in effect.

We don't know how each team is doing versus that.

And then, of course, we've got the relatively new news

that in 2027, it looks like we're going to have a slight change

in the engine formula.

All of these teams are going to have to dedicate something to that.

And it's going to be a team-by-team decision

as to how much you do on that this year.

And whatever you do on that this year is going to take away

from your ability of the current car.

And McLaren, you could say,

may be in a slightly advantageous situation there

in that Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mercedes

are all running their own power units.

They are going to have to, you would think,

put quite a lot of effort into that.

McLaren might actually be able to take one step back from that.

And so maybe we don't need to spend the same amount

as those three teams.

And we can actually spend a little bit more on our current car.

Maybe that's what they need in order to get closer to Mercedes.

So in terms of the constructors championship,

I know it's a big deficit.

I don't think it's over yet.

Driver's championship might worry me a little bit more

because we've had, not Lando Norris has had what,

one did not start and one did not finish so far this year.

Piastri's had two did not starts,

which means Lando Norris currently 73 points down

on Antonelli, Piastri 83 points down.

The conversation at the moment is about

whether George Russell can even overturn the deficit

he has to Antonelli, let alone the McLaren.

So that feels like the bigger challenge to me.

Yeah, I agree.

I think where there is only two teams realistically,

maybe Red Bull, if they really keep picking up the performances,

but can stop McLaren from picking up their constructors title.

With the drivers, it's actually four, maybe five drivers

that are in the way here.

And they're all incredibly competitive because the cars are so close.

And on their day, those drivers are just as good as the McLaren drivers.

If not, some are better.

The Stap and Longest Day will beat them both,

I think quite comfortably.

Leclerc is as good.

Hamilton Longest Day can be as good still.

Russell and Antonelli have both proven they can be as good,

if not better again.

So it's not just passing as a team, two units.

It's both of those people against each other,

passing another five drivers to try and maximize their points.

It's so easy to lose points is the point I'm making here,

that overcoming that massive hole that can be Antonelli's managed to pick up

is just so tough.

It will require several DNFs and a real turn down in pace.

There isn't engine related for Mercedes to be able to give McLaren the advantage.

And that is the problem with McLaren being a customer of Mercedes.

Anything that affects Mercedes affects McLaren.

And they need to spend so much more in their aero development,

their chassis development to overcome the lack of output from an engine.

It's a lot of cash and a lot of hope to get that right.

And they're always on the back foot in terms of this,

I don't know, knowledge transfer.

I know that's something we've discussed a few times this year

about how whilst they have exactly the same power unit as Mercedes,

they don't have the same knowledge out the box as Mercedes,

because they are just being given something.

Part of being a customer.

Yeah, exactly.

But it just means that whilst I think they have made quite good strides

on that in the first five races,

because they are definitely stronger now than where they were in Australia,

every time Mercedes bring something of an engine upgrade,

Mercedes are probably going to benefit from that straight away.

McLaren are going to have to take maybe a race or two to fully get 100% out of it.

And that can be the difference in these championship challenges.

In terms of the two drivers,

where do you think their heads will be at right now?

We've obviously got Lando Norris fresh off of his first drivers championship last year,

but struggling a bit this year in terms of having that did not finish,

having that did not start.

He was competitive in Miami,

but that's probably the only race so far this year that he's been in contention for a win.

Similarly, Oscar Piatri's had some really horrid luck so far this year

and a very good race at Suzuka, but outside of that,

hasn't really had a chance to challenge for a win.

Where do you think they're both at?

I know that Lando Norris wakes up every day.

He looks in the mirror and he says to himself,

you're a world champion.

That's what Lando Norris does.

So I think he's fine.

I think mentally he's quite strong.

I won't treat that.

Well, you know, I've got to hurt anyone before.

I just wrote that myself.

I think that he is mentally quite strong.

And I think he's also very McLaren.

I think he is one of these drivers,

much like the Clare with Ferrari,

much like the Stappen with Red Bull.

Now Russell, you argue with Mercedes.

I think you would see him there for a long time.

And I think he's reading out the loads already, right?

17th in a D&F in Bahreng only 34 seasons ago.

He's rode all the way up and it's still a better situation

than it was a couple of seasons ago.

And your luck comes and your luck goes

and your time will come and your time will go.

Then if you're there long enough in theory,

it will come back round the game.

I think Norris is happy to run that team.

Piastri, on the other hand, we already heard murmurings

of a potential move if the opportunity arose

over the winter period.

There were conversations that Mark Webber, his manager,

was speaking to Ferrari, Mercedes,

was speaking to Red Bull.

So we know that he is not 100% mentally aligned

with McLaren.

He's open.

The door is hija, you would say, to a potential move.

And I do think if it continued to fall out and laugh

in terms of the performances and the relationship

that he has with McLaren,

there might be a, hey, this is this regulation

with McLaren isn't working for me.

I want to step away.

I want to do something else.

If we saw someone like Verstappen leave the sport entirely,

I think Piastri would jump up to be one of the favourites

to take that Red Bull seat off of him.

I know Piastri over the Canadian GP weekend,

just to say that he went out of his way

to kind of address these Red Bull rumours

and shut them down to at least say

there hadn't been any contact at this point.

Doesn't mean there wouldn't be in the future, obviously.

But for now, at least, I think he's committed enough

to McLaren and the team as a whole.

Lando Norris, I think if he wants it,

like the championship should give McLaren

some breathing room in terms of

if he can't compete for a title this year,

having won that title last year, and you're right,

he has been on that full journey of McLaren

really ever since he was their development driver

back in 2018 or so.

So you do go back quite a few years

and you think of where McLaren were at that point,

they were just starting to get out of the Honda deal

and get back to some...

I've got those shots with him next to Fernando Alonso,

as a mere boy.

Yeah, but Norris was making Alonso tea or something, wasn't it?

I think it was, yeah, maybe an espresso or something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, he has been on that journey.

So I would be surprised if he bailed out of that super early.

I'm still on the back burner got this take

that I can't fully commit to,

which is I don't think Norris is here for a long time in F1.

Yeah, you've said this a couple of times.

I can't put any fact behind it at all.

It's just one of those where it's a hunch.

I'm going to disagree.

I think he will be one of those drivers.

I think for at least another decade, we've got Landon Norris.

No way we remember we've had this conversation.

We can go back to it.

I can't remember more than two particular times outside of this.

I also wanted to chat about Zach Brown, who he was asked.

He was at the Indy 500 at the weekend.

He was asked about McLaren sort of having their own engine in F1

and whether that would ever be a possibility

and what the conditions would need to be.

He said, if a financially viable engine formula is introduced,

we would definitely consider developing our own power unit and technology.

What are your thoughts on that?

That one caught my eye.

I am fully with him.

I think that actually they should let's do this sooner rather than later.

You just have to go back through the last quarter of a century of titles

to realize just how powerful it is to be in control of your own power unit.

If you're not in control of your own power unit,

you are the direct and only customer of an outside supplier.

When I say outside supplier,

I mean the person giving you the engine may not be yours,

but they are not also racing in the sport at the time.

Ferrari, of course, pick up the first few titles with their own engine.

Straight after that, it goes to Renault with a Renault engine.

Then, of course, it's Ferrari again,

and then Hamilton picks up an engine at McLaren,

but they have a Mercedes engine.

Mercedes are in the sport at this point.

After that, it goes into Brawn and who were Brawn's engine?

The only one being, of course, they were running the Honda or was it the Mercedes?

Sorry, the 2009.

Yes.

They had a Honda left.

Yes.

There you go.

Then we move into Red Bull, of course,

who were running the Renault engine for those four years, of course.

Mercedes again, back to Mercedes engines.

You see the flow here.

Actually, McLaren, in the last couple of times that they won the constructors,

were pretty much the only time where their provider

was also running alongside them on the grid.

It's incredibly rare that a manufacturer of engines

is beaten by a customer who is also on the grid at the same time.

I do believe that if McLaren want to have long-term domination,

long-term top-tier success, and they're not culturally actually

around this second, third, fourth place,

especially when Mercedes are involved,

they will need to look at having some self-sustainability

and bringing either an outside provider,

whoever that might be.

It currently could be like a Toyota, a BMW, whatever it might be,

or they're going house and they created themselves.

I think if they're going to do it,

doing it now for the new era of Formula One,

or should be 2030, 2031,

it's the right time to potentially do that.

They've got to think about it now.

Even if they don't go ahead with it,

they have to think about it now, because whilst, yes,

McLaren have shown recently that you can win as a customer team in F1,

the conditions for them winning were very specific

in that the engines were frozen in 2020, 2021, or whenever it was,

meaning we had multiple years of engine performance

essentially being completely balanced.

And F1 became purely a game of,

can you do a better job on aero and chassis compared to your rivals?

But that's quite rare.

F1 is no longer in that space because engine development is back.

And we know that in 2027, it will be changed a little bit again.

And there's a good chance that they don't choose to freeze these engines

whatsoever until the new Formula again in 2030 or 2031.

They're probably not going to freeze that formula for at least four or five years.

I know we're guessing here and we're going quite far into the future.

There's a very good chance that the conditions McLaren won the championship

under last year aren't around for another 10 years, if at all.

And I don't think if you're McLaren, you can just bank on that particular situation.

They do need to think about whether the talks of the 2030,

2031 engine being a lot cheaper if that is the in.

We've seen with Red Bull who have kind of done a similar thing.

Appreciate it's not exactly the same because there was that transition

from Honda over the last couple of years.

But Red Bull's power unit isn't exactly well off the pace right now.

It's in the mix.

And maybe that gives McLaren the encouragement to go ahead with this.

I could see it happening.

If I was McLaren, I'd have very close fixed eyes on Audi and Cadillac.

Audi, of course, developing their own engine.

It'd be interesting to see how quickly that comes up to proper pace

and kind of like, of course, bringing their engine in a couple of years time.

If that gets off the mark and it is competitive, it shows you it can be done.

And I do think McLaren need to look for an outside provider long term

or start producing their own within the next decade.

A couple of more things just before we go to our second break about the Indy 500.

Firstly, congratulations to Felix Rosimus who won his first Indy 500.

Well done to you.

His first oval race win.

How ridiculous is that?

Yeah.

Excellent.

He's been in a brilliant race for years as Felix.

He's done a great job in Formula E.

He's been everywhere apart from F1, essentially.

So it's great to see him win such a high profile race.

Secondly, we had Lando Norris and Daniel Ricciardo, I think, both for 10th, the Indy 500.

Lando Norris was asked, would he ever consider doing the Indy 500?

And didn't exactly say no.

I think it's becoming a much more eye-opening and available opportunity for Formula One drivers.

I think Fernando Alonso has done a good job at paving a recent path for people doing both.

I also think that the fact that we saw Ericsson pick up his Indy 500 win shows that F1 drivers can have success there.

It's not a given.

You really have to make sure that you are on top form and the bigger luck goes your way.

You get the right team, but it can happen.

Why not?

It's one race.

It's one mega race.

It's one of the best races in the world.

Why not look to try and compete in both?

I miss the days where you have drivers being in two different respective formulas at once

or two different modes of formula at once.

It's kind of gone.

It's a bit of a bygone era, so I would love to see more drivers do 24 hours in a month.

I'd love to see more drivers do the Indy 500.

Go on.

Don't give it a go.

If you've got a car in there already, give it a try.

I think as well with these drivers that are in F1 or who are maybe considering doing this at some point in their careers,

there are more and more people around them that have gone and done it and are thriving.

Like you mentioned, Marcus Erickson,

but you think of so many drivers that sort of come up via the European formula system,

even those that don't make it to F1 like Marcus Armstrong's out there now, Christian Lundgaard's out there now.

You've got, I mean, Alex Polo has come from the European sort of system quite a few years ago.

Takuma Sato, who's very soon F1.

The list is endless.

Grosjean's there.

Right.

Mick Schumacher, of course.

It's mixed there, yeah.

Soon enough, you're going to get enough peers around you that you've raced against to think,

because there is still a bit of a notion of the maybe danger of the Indy 500 and it's still there.

Don't get me wrong.

I mean, we saw what happened with Alexander Rossi, of course, just over a week ago.

But I think maybe just seeing so many others around them doing this might prompt.

Ricardo has always said in the past that he's not interested.

I think he should have committed.

I actually think it would have been a sensational career move for Daniel Ricardo to do a couple of seasons in India.

I think he would have built up a massive fan base.

His personality suits it.

It's wild, which he suits brilliantly.

Also, I think he'd thrive on the actual circuits rather than the ovals as well.

It could be a good challenge for him.

Yeah, we'll see who's the next to make that jump.

We're going to take a quick break on the other side.

We've got comments from Mohammed Ben Suleyem.

Flavin' Begg on the same show.

Damn, yeah.

We don't space them out.

Both of the same type.

All the good stuff.

Welcome back, everyone.

Hope you're ready.

The FIA president Mohammed Ben Suleyem is proposing a removal of term limits for the position as head of mode sports governing body.

The move would enable Ben Suleyem, who was reelected unopposed in December as a result of election rules that prevented anyone else from standing to continue as president beyond the current 12 year limit.

The plan to change the FIA statutes will be discussed and voted on at next month's FIA General Assembly, where it is expected to be passed by members.

An FIA spokesperson said a proposal has been put forward to establish a consistent approach to tenure across all FIA bodies, similar to what currently exists for the world councils and the Senate.

Asked by BBC Sport why it was decided to abolish term limits for all posts, rather than instate them for those that don't currently have them, an FIA spokesperson was unable to provide a specific answer.

In another change to the statutes, the rules for FIA presidential candidates have been made stricter.

A requirement for candidates to demonstrate sufficient experience within an FIA member or an FIA body will be added.

What's your reaction here, Sam?

There are a lot of things I wanted to say that I don't think are appropriate for a podcast.

That's awesome.

Okay, good. It screams of world dictatorship.

It's giving world dictatorship, you know?

It is giving dictatorship. It's giving, you know, I want to run the show and I don't want to take away my fun little toy from me.

And so to do that, I'm getting a bend in changing all to the rules.

The line that you already came out with that no one was able to run against you because they didn't meet the sufficient election requirements, which are also some of the most stringent and ridiculous, difficult.

Can I just remind people exactly what that was?

Because you needed one person from each of the FIA's regions, which are roughly, I think, continents.

You need the support of one person in order to stand.

There's only one applicable person in South America who has the surname Eccleston who supported Mohammed Ben-Sulliam,

meaning literally no one could stand against Mohammed Ben-Sulliam.

So if that person decides that Ben-Sulliam doesn't want to run anymore or they go, actually, I don't like you, Ben.

You can't be the runner anymore.

He's out. In theory, that's how it works, right?

You can keep that person sweet and you've essentially got the job done.

It just feels a little corrupt.

It feels a little dodgy and it feels quite dictator-y.

And those are three things I don't think I would ever want to have associated with me going for any kind of position of power.

And surely, where's the satisfaction of not beating anyone?

Being like, I'm the best guy for the job because all my peers think I'm legitimately winning because you do a good job.

He's the type of guy that thinks that is winning.

You know the meme of the guy with the bronze medal and he's just going crazy about it.

That's Ben-Sulliam.

Apart from their auntie, there's no one else in the meme. He's the only one.

The people on the meme are F1 drivers on the podium, but he's also put himself on and he's grabbing their hair or waterboarding or spraying the champagne of first place.

There'll be a rules suit where he gets to spray the winning champagne before the winner.

Just back off, man.

I hate it so much.

Just f*** off. I'm boring you being so involved.

I get that you're the FIA press through some de facto corruption, but just back off a bit.

Ben, give us your thoughts on this situation.

I will happily give you my thoughts on this situation.

This is so messed up, man.

You know, I'm only half joking when I say this.

I wish Ben-Sulliam would just come out and say, I want to be a dictator because at least at that point he would be honest.

Like that is his intention here rather than he's taking people for idiots when he makes changes like this.

Like the situation is, and just to reiterate what's going on here, some of the roles that he's talking about here already have term limits like the one that he has.

Some of them do not.

His solution is therefore abolish term limits for all of these posts.

And he's taking people for idiots to the point where you can imagine the conversation being like,

so that benefits you as well, doesn't it, Mohammed?

Oh, yeah. That benefits me.

I had thought of this.

What an unintended consequence of this move that I was making for really good reasons.

I'm so selfless. I haven't even thought about how it might hurt or benefit me.

And then you go, well, why didn't you just like introduce term limits for all every single post, including, you know, the ones that don't have it at the moment?

Sorry, what's that?

I can't hear you.

Going for a tunnel.

What's that?

Can't hear you.

Break it up.

What's that?

No term limits is what you're saying.

Yeah, agreed.

It's like the royal family of the FIA at this point.

That's going to be the start of the royal family.

I know.

He's crowned himself king.

He took all his little princesses and no one can be removed.

Oh, man.

After the farce of the election as well that you referenced to, like, where no one could stand against him,

he doesn't seem to have any notable opposition that will start.

Has he said in the report from the BBC, like, it looks like this will be passed.

And I know we've had...

Because they're terrified.

They are terrified to stand against him because they lose their careers if they stand against him.

Yeah.

And, like, outside of a few members, like, I'm not saying no one stood up to him.

We've had Tim Mayer, who wanted to stand for president last year.

How have I seen you try to?

And Dave Richards, he's said some things before.

But, like, there's never been enough of a push to go against a lot of what he's saying.

And you can just push these things through.

There's a rug in the FIA reception room that's got those three people swept under it.

Yeah, right.

Like, there's a reason that term limits exist in these bigger posts.

Like, we have it with UK prime ministers.

With most governments.

Yeah.

We have it for US presidents, at least for the next year or so.

Like, it's...

We have it for a reason, right?

Like, and it's not just a don't like Mohammed Ben-Sully and therefore I don't want him in the role.

It's like when you have this turnover of people at the top.

The whole point is you get fresh ideas.

You get...

It's just an injection of...

I'm not saying an injection of youth, but, like, an injection of, like, creativity.

Like, culture.

Right.

Like, different thought process.

Yes, it's how we stay innovative.

And it's why, you know, good team principals and Formula One teams, they are...

They can be voted out.

They can be outlawed by stakeholders and shareholders if they're not doing a good job.

If they do do a good job, they get re-voting in.

Right.

It's how these ideas and people retain.

This will sound like an awfully cringy sentence that belongs on some Instagram post rather

than on a podcast, but, like, our differences as humans make us special.

And, like, that's the whole point, like...

I've actually got that in my kitchen.

Right, yeah, yeah.

It's perfect for something as soon as you walk into a door of a 60-year-old mum or something.

But, like...

It seems so underneath.

Don't talk to me until I've had my first coffee.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yes, apologies for that.

But there is some truth in it, in that, like, our differences are what, like...

We can bring something different to these roles.

Like, if you get the same person doing the same job over and over again, there's just a lack of...

I don't know, incentive to get these things done.

But what point does it become a lack of interest at all?

And it's purely self-absorbed.

It's purely a, oh, yeah, I'm the top dog.

Doesn't matter.

I don't need to do anything.

I don't need to change it if I want to, because I've got the post permanently.

You can't get rid of me.

I mean, it's like...

When you've got terminus in place, you have reason, at least, to, like...

You know that you're not going to be here in four years' time.

Like, you've got...

You can set deadlines for things.

And people work quite effectively with deadlines.

Bam, I've been silly and can go, all right, I'll get to that at some point.

Don't really matter, does it?

Like, we don't want that for the progression of the sport.

Do I mention 2029 for V8s?

Make it 2039.

That's all right.

I'll get there eventually.

I do also want to congratulate the spokesperson here,

who's actually outside of what I mentioned about not being able to give an answer

for why they wouldn't just add term limits to those roles that don't have them at the moment.

They gave a few examples as to, like, other sports and how they don't have term limits,

one of which being the NFL.

So, Roger Goodell has been the commissioner of the NFL for 20 years this year.

So, he's been in post for a long time.

It's like, that's the example we're running with.

Let me play you a quick clip about what happens any time Roger Goodell steps out in front of people.

Thank you.

Come on, you can do better than that.

Let's go.

The heckling back is good.

Any time he presents the NFL Draft on a yearly basis,

it's literally a running joke that he gets booed every time he steps out.

So, him being the example of someone who's been in a post for a long time

isn't the best one in the world.

I really admire the fact that they don't hide the booing.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just fully out with it.

The last thing on this one, Sam, is that they want to be able to,

if someone wants to challenge Ben Suleyman in the future,

they want that person to fight to the death or...

I might as well.

Demonstrated sufficient experience.

Bit vague in it.

It's literally the final point I want to bring up.

What does that mean?

I've got sufficient experience as a podcast host.

It doesn't mean I could go and run BBC News.

You know, you've been on camera for a few years.

My little Sony that sits on a desk.

What does that mean?

What does it mean to be demonstrating any kind of experience

for a sufficient time?

What's a sufficient time?

A week, a year, a decade, a millennia?

I don't know.

Maybe only the Galactic Empire could dethrone Ben Suleyman.

I'm not sure.

But it does feel like it's purely subjective based on what he wants,

when he wants it and how he wants it.

And once again, it screams dictator.

Your little weirdo.

Oh, boy.

Got him.

Jeez, never know what words come in next.

Yeah, it is really horribly vague.

And it can just be interpreted in the way that he wants.

And this is why these things in combination really annoy me.

It's like, yes, you've demolished sort of term limits

for those roles that have them at the moment.

Okay, if you've done that independently,

maybe you could convince me that's for good reasons.

But you've done it at the same time as making it more difficult

for people to stand against you because they need experience.

The way in which they get experience is to get these roles.

The way in which they get these roles is by these roles coming up for re-election.

They don't come up for re-election anymore

because you've demolished the term limits.

Like, it's all...

One after the other, it doesn't make sense.

Awful, awful dominoes.

Yeah.

Awful, awful dominoes.

Yeah, it's just making it more difficult to gain experience

and then at the same time saying you need that experience.

It's the same as like those entry-level jobs

that ask for like 15 years' relevant experience.

It's a base-level job.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, can you be a social media manager?

You need 25 years' experience.

Social media is only inventing 15 years' experience.

Right, yeah, exactly.

That's what it feels like he's doing.

So, well, now I'm having been silly.

I mean, you haven't really got a lot of attention on the podcast recently.

But you've come back in a big way.

Yeah, yeah.

If you ever want to come on the show, have a chat.

I don't think he'd want to be here.

Probably not, but I...

I don't think I'd want him here.

Well, one on one.

Go on, I'll take you.

One on one.

Oh, yeah.

I'd like to see that to be fair.

Yeah, I'm Gucci.

You're welcome.

Gucci, Muhammad Ben-Sulliam and Sam Sage.

That's an interesting...

Nightmare block rotation.

That is a nightmare block rotation, no doubt.

Yeah.

Okay, that one.

Well, let's take our last break on this episode

on the other side.

Something that can only go better.

F1 back and back.

Welcome back, everyone.

I decided to bring back everyone's favourite sort of game.

It's time for F1 back and back.

F1 back and back.

Yes.

Adapted from our usual back-and-forth game,

where Harry and Sam go up against each other

on a particular category.

We've decided to very cleverly adapt that game here

to be F1 back and back.

Cleverly is a kind word.

Yeah, I'm not sure if that's the most appropriate word

in this situation,

but I've got a category in front of me, Sam.

There are 21 correct answers,

and we'll just see with three lives...

Scribes on the current grid.

Aye, I only got to nine.

Oh, man.

We'll see how far you can get with three lives

for this particular question, OK?

And play along at home.

See how many of these 21 you can name.

Again, give yourselves three lives at home as well.

I want you to name any driver

who has been in the points 100 times in their career.

So...

I've not scored 100 points.

Not scored 100 points.

How many times they have been in the points?

Finish in the points.

OK, all right.

Where are we starting?

We'll start with Lewis Hamilton.

It's a good place to start.

He is number one on this list,

having been in the points 339 times in his career.

Fly me, that's quite good.

It's not bad.

Let's go Michael Schumacher.

Michael Schumacher is a correct answer.

He is third place on this list with 221.

OK, Max Verstappen.

Max Verstappen is on this list.

He is currently sixth on 201.

Great.

Sebastian Vettel.

Sebastian Vettel is on this list.

219 puts him in a tie for fourth place.

Brilliant.

I'm missing second place.

Yes.

Whoa.

That is surprising.

Nico Rosberg.

Nico Rosberg is on this list.

He is in 15th on 133.

Great.

OK, good.

Got either in.

Rubens Barrichello.

Rubens Barrichello is 13th on this list with 140.

Great.

That's second place.

It's going to be an obvious one.

Maybe Prost.

Prost is on this list,

but he is in a tie for 16th place.

128 times he's been in the points.

That's criminal.

That is.

Senna.

Senna is your first strike.

Senna has not scored in 100 races.

Very unlucky.

He is the 23rd answer on this list.

96 times.

He's been in the points.

Mika Hakinen.

Strike number two.

Oh, gosh.

83 times.

Good Lord.

He's been in the points.

Got to pull this together now.

Sergio Perez.

Sergio Perez is a correct answer.

He is seventh on this list,

having scored in 188 races.

Fernando Alonso.

Fernando Alonso is that second place

you were missing 275 times.

He's been in the points.

You know what, with his recent career,

I am surprised that he's that far up the list

because he's barely scored a point

if it was like in the last decade.

Kimi Raikinen.

Kimi Raikinen is in that tie for fourth

with Sebastian Vettel with 219,

which means you now have got the top seven answers.

Brilliant.

A famous thing that's all I try and ever achieve.

Oh, yeah.

Mark Weber.

Mark Weber is a correct answer.

He is 20th on this list with 112.

Oh, I don't like this.

Someone below that.

That feels risky.

The one below is on 100 exactly.

Really?

Yeah.

Is that why you went down to 100?

Yeah, yeah.

It just worked out quite nicely.

Where do you find these statistics?

Are you counting these by hand?

I'm not counting these by hand, no.

Oh, you just have some weird fact archive chamber

that I need to discover.

Daniel Ricciardo.

Daniel Ricciardo is a correct answer.

137 puts him 14th.

OK.

What positions am I missing?

So you've got 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

Right.

And then 17, 18, 19, 21st.

Bottas.

Bottas is 11th on the list.

145.

Massa.

Massa's on this list.

165 puts him 8th.

OK.

Kultad.

Kultad is on this list.

120.

121.

18th.

We've got even last on the list, mate.

No.

164.

Six answers left.

OK.

There's going to be some glaring or obvious ones here

that I should be guessing.

Mansell?

Mansell is not on the list.

82 times. He would have done this to me, Dr. Nige. Dr. Nige. Um, give you one more, one

more life to play with. See if you can get any more of these, uh, any of these six.

I've got to think about it properly now. I was trying to go through some, some other world

champions left on there. Jensen Button. Jensen Button. Yeah. Jensen Button. 162 is in ninth.

Okay. Any other world champs? Uh, yeah. Two of them are world champs. Good. I'm really glad

there's as many as two that are world champions on there. Uh, right. We've done Schumacher

Alonso Reichen, Hamilton Vettel, Stappen, Rosberg, Norris. Norris is a correct answer. 128, uh,

puts him crucially ahead of David Coulthard in two 17th. Charlotte Clair. Charlotte Clair is

correct. 142. He's 12th. Three left. How many other currents have we got? Two of these three

are current. George Russell. No, not George Russell. 92. He's on. Wow. All right. Can I

give us the others? Uh, the other two, um, current in 10th place, Carlos Sainz of 159. Fair play.

In 19th with 120 is Nico Holkeberg and then on 100 exactly, Nelson Piquet. Ah, there's a reason

why I didn't remember that one. A pretty good effort there though. There were a few, quite

a few like close ones there. Um, other close answers, by the way, if you had these at home,

uh, Gasly's on 82, uh, Ralph Schumacher on 90, Gerhard Berger on 94, and Esteban Ocon on 97.

Come on, Esteban. He's almost there. We'll do it next year. You'll be on this list. No,

it'll be at 98 or something. Well, that's it for back and back, but that's not it for the episode

because everyone look to the skies. You might be able to see just in the distance.

It's got a little jazz jingle going this year. Okay. It's the father Christmas of jazz.

Oh, that's not good.

It's me, the father Christmas of birthdays.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Father Christmas of birthdays. Loves the end of the month. That's where he comes alive.

He sleeps for 20 to 30 days of a month. He hates February. Um, anyway, yeah. So as a perk

of patron being a top tier patron subscriber, you are permitted to, should you wish you use it,

a birthday shout out on your birthday month on the main show. Um, and to activate the issue

to be a top tier members mentioned, and you need to message us on patron with your whatever game

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which we understand or it could be the full thing you let us go and you'll hear some now so if you

are a top tier subscriber and you haven't sent this in and you want to use it please make sure you

do of course june will be coming up next month because that's how calendars work there you go

educational oh happy birthday from me to deets twyler and the anchor oh

ho ho ho Brenton on may the 3rd happy birthday call aka the wizard king i know him well on may the

4th happy birthday ho ho charlotte may the 5th happy birthday oh ho ho abilash on may the 8th

that's a great name by the way happy birthday dang boh smith on may 15th happy birthday so what

have you organized these in date order they're not usually in date order this is great i think they

all year have they really oh yeah maybe they weren't before maybe at least losing my mind

they are sensational improvement to my lists oh ho ho richard may 20th happy birthday so delicious

may 21st with barry k and carissa same birthdays happy birthday uh happy birthday to henry aria

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birthday to mama father christmas of birthdays happy birthday to rye guy for may 26th ho ho

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birthday to the gregar family that is an amazing congratulations an amazing moment and

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i like to think that the father christmas of birthdays was taught that the word birthday

is actually spelled b u f f d a y it's all getting it wrong this is how he says it

buff day yeah it's everyone has a buff day it's buff day and you must be buff

to have a day the worst part of this whole show really is um we're gonna get out of here um

we've got an episode of course can we up midweek it's our monaco preview my favorite episode of

the hot go i take it back the sunday of this week will be my favorite episode of the whole year

yeah it's monaco folks um for some a thrilling endeavor uh for others a nice time to catch up

on some sleep you might lose but either way we're going to be here reviewing it i'm sure it'll be

wonderful i'm sure going to be the best monaco gp we've ever had and someone might overtake someone

on the racetrack maybe that'll be good you never know join us anyway because i'm sure you'll get

a barrel of laughs or anger or a good time i know it'll be good fun and we appreciate your support

Matthew so thanks for listening in the meantime i hope you're having the same mistake and i've

been bandhawking and remember keep breaking late it's all right well i know

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64:51

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