TFL Car Chat Feb 16, 2026

Is The All New 2027 Toyota Highlander REALLY Going To Sell? | Ep. 324

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60:46

Concept

electric vehicles

Electric vehicles are cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline, which can be better for the environment.

Car

Toyota Highlander

The Toyota Highlander is a family-friendly SUV that has lots of room for people and their stuff. It's known for being safe and reliable, which is why many families choose it.

Car

Toyota bZ4X

The Toyota BZ4X is a new electric SUV from Toyota, designed to be eco-friendly and part of their electric vehicle lineup.

Car

Toyota Chr

The Toyota C-HR is a small SUV that has a cool, modern look. It's great for people who want something stylish that can still carry a few passengers and bags.

Car

Toyota Grand Highlander

The Toyota Highlander is a popular SUV that will become fully electric by 2027, meaning it will run on electricity instead of gasoline, which is part of a trend in the car industry.

Car

Mazda Cx5

The Mazda CX-5 is a small SUV that looks nice and is fun to drive. People like to talk about it because it has a good mix of comfort and style.

Term

EV

An EV, or electric vehicle, is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas. This means it doesn't produce exhaust fumes and can be better for the environment.

Car

Toyota RAV4

The Toyota RAV4 is a smaller SUV compared to the Highlander and is very popular for its reliability and practicality. It can also come in a hybrid version, which is more fuel-efficient.

Term

electric door handles

Electric door handles let you open the car doors without a traditional handle. Instead, you push a button or touch a spot, which can look sleek but might be tricky if there's a power failure.

Term

electronic shifter

An electronic shifter is a modern way to change gears in a car using buttons or a dial instead of a traditional stick. It helps make the inside of the car look nicer and gives you more room.

Term

rotary shifter

A rotary shifter is a round dial that you turn to change gears in a car, instead of using a stick. It helps make the car's interior look cleaner and gives you more room.

Term

three in the tree

'Three in the tree' is an old way to change gears in a car where the gear stick is located on the steering column. It was popular in older cars and helped save space inside the car.

Term

three on the tree

'Three on the tree' is a way to describe a gear shifter that is located on the steering column of a car. This was popular in older vehicles, especially trucks, because it saved space inside the car.

Term

aerodynamic

Aerodynamics is about how air moves around a car. A car designed to be more aerodynamic can use less fuel and go faster because it cuts through the air better.

Term

manual override

A manual override is a way to control something by hand if the automatic system stops working. In cars, it helps you open doors or operate features even if the buttons fail.

Car

Chevrolet Corvette

The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast and stylish sports car that many people admire. It's known for being powerful and fun to drive, which is why it often comes up in conversations about exciting cars.

Car

Tesla Model Y

The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV made by Tesla. It's popular for being spacious and having cool tech features like self-driving capabilities.

Car

Toyota Land Cruiser

The Toyota Land Cruiser is a large SUV that is great for driving on rough terrain. The 2005 version is known for being tough and reliable, which is why many people like to use it for off-roading.

Brand

Mercedes-Benz

Mercedes-Benz is a famous car brand that makes luxury vehicles. They are known for having nice designs and technology in their cars.

Brand

Porsche

Porsche is a high-end car brand that makes sports cars. They are known for having stylish designs and new technology in their cars, like curved screens.

Term

kilowatt hour battery

A kilowatt hour is a way to measure how much energy a battery can hold. The bigger the number, the more energy it can store, which usually means the car can go further on a single charge.

Term

charging speed

Charging speed is how fast you can fill up an electric car's battery. The faster it charges, the less time you have to wait before you can drive again.

Term

800 volt system

An 800 volt system is a type of electrical setup in electric cars that helps them charge faster. The higher the voltage, the quicker you can fill up the battery.

Car

Volkswagen Egolfs

The Volkswagen e-Golf is an electric car that looks like a regular Golf but runs on electricity instead of gas. It's a good option for those who want to drive green and save on fuel.

Car

Dodge Charger

The Dodge Charger is a big car that's known for being really fast and having a cool look. People like to talk about it because it offers a lot of power and is fun to drive.

Car

Rivian R1T

The Rivian R1T is a new electric truck that can go off-road and is made for outdoor adventures. It's designed to be tough and has cool tech features.

Car

Volkswagen Id Buzz

The Volkswagen ID. Buzz is a new electric van that looks like the old VW buses. It's designed for families and is great for road trips.

Term

EVs

EVs stands for electric vehicles, which are cars that run on electricity instead of traditional fuels like gas.

Term

batteries

Batteries are devices that store energy, and in electric cars, they provide the power needed to drive the vehicle.

Car

Toyota Corolla

The Toyota Corolla is a small car that's very popular because it's dependable and gets good gas mileage. Many people choose it for everyday driving.

Car

Toyota Tacoma

The Toyota Tacoma is a smaller truck that many people in North America buy for its strength and ability to drive off-road. It's popular for work and adventure.

Car

Toyota Camry

The Toyota Camry is a popular car that many people like because it's comfortable and lasts a long time. It's a good choice for anyone needing a reliable vehicle.

Car

Toyota Crown

The Toyota Crown is a big, fancy car that's comfortable to drive. It's often talked about because it has a lot of nice features and is seen as a luxury vehicle.

Car

Lincoln Nautilus

The Lincoln Nautilus is a fancy SUV that's designed for a smooth and comfortable ride. People talk about it because it has a lot of nice features and is great for long trips.

Term

CarPlay

CarPlay is a system that lets you connect your iPhone to your car so you can use apps and music on the car's screen.

Car

Ford Ranger

The Ford Ranger is a smaller truck that can be used for work or play. It's tough and can handle rough roads, which is why people often mention it when talking about trucks.

Term

Ranger Raptor

The Ranger Raptor is a special version of the Ford Ranger truck that is built for off-roading, with better suspension and a stronger engine.

Car

Chrysler P Chrysler

The Chrysler PT Cruiser is a small car that has a unique, old-fashioned look. People remember it because it was different from most cars on the road and was popular for a while.

Car

Ford Maverick

The Ford Maverick is a small truck that's easy to drive and good on gas. It's a great choice for people who want a truck without spending too much money.

Car

Ford F150

The Ford F-150 is a large truck that many people use for work or towing. It's very popular in the U.S. and is known for being tough and reliable.

Car

Honda CR-V

The Honda CR-V is a popular small SUV that offers a lot of space and good gas mileage. It's a great option for families or anyone needing extra room for passengers and cargo.

Car

Jeep Wrangler

The Jeep Wrangler is a tough car that's great for driving off-road. People love it because it can go almost anywhere and has a unique, boxy shape.

Car

Cupra Born

The Cupra Born is a sporty electric car that looks cool and is fun to drive. It's a great choice for people who want a fast car that doesn't use gas.

Car

Mitsubishi Outlander

The Mitsubishi Outlander is a family SUV that has room for lots of people and their gear. It's a good choice for families who need space and want a reliable car.

Car

Fiat 500e

The Fiat 500e is a small electric car that's perfect for driving around the city. It's easy to park and helps reduce pollution, which is why people like it.

Car

Jeep Cherokee

The Jeep Cherokee is a smaller SUV that's good for both city driving and going off-road. It's a popular choice for people who want a car that can handle different types of roads.

LIVE

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Tommy, I've got some breaking news.

[SPEAKER_00]: Toyota is already offering a 5,000-thord discount or 0% APR financing on their three electric vehicles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you know Toyota even had three electric vehicles?

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, they have four.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this is a big news because in today's podcast, we're going to talk about the new Highlander.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to find out, is it really going to sell?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good question.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you may be thinking to yourself, what Toyota has three normal EVs?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact is, yes, they do.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have the BZ, which used to be the BZ4X.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have the new woodland BZ, which is kind of the off-road E1, which I just drove.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that video will be coming out next week.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have the new CHR, which you remember we saw in Plano.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also a electric.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the one that they just unveiled.

[SPEAKER_00]: Drummers, please.

[SPEAKER_00]: is the Highlander, not the Grand Highlander, but the Highlander, which is going all electric in 2027.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what will be discussing besides that today is you also want an program, what did you go on?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I just drove the new Mazda CX5 and we're gonna talk about [SPEAKER_02]: tech overload and what that means in terms of cars and have we gone too far with technology?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh hell yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well answer that question.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't answer it in the first 30 seconds or people want to stick around in the next hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no we haven't gone far enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to have more screens.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we could do another giant screen in the second row and then of course another one in the third row.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's talk about the Highlander, and here's a crazy thing, so I got invited to go to unveiling of the new Highlander, and when I did the video, I was under the assumption that the new Highlander was going to come both as an EV and as an non-EV, so they were going to keep both.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know why I was under the assumption?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because the Highlanders, one of the best selling Toyota, they sell many, many thousands of units, and it would be a dramatic change for them to go all electric.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I would think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there, a couple of years ago, they would sell over 200,000 of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Last year, they sold 65,000, but two had kind of hit the fact that they're getting rid of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They never actually called it the only way you knew that it was replacing the Highlander, the electric one was, [SPEAKER_00]: By the fact that they didn't have two letters behind its name, you know, those two are EV?

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how excited they were about.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they buried that news.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and the reason, of course, they did that is because there's a Grand Highlighter, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it makes sense, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You have the Grand Highlighter, which is...

[SPEAKER_02]: the gasoline slash hybrid option for the for the people that want that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it wouldn't make sense to have another gasoline highlander slightly under the highlander.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of been the big confusion with the current one.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it makes sense to to make the new standard highlander more differentiated from the grand highlander.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was talking to some people on my program because a couple of our YouTube friends were coming up.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I want to talk about what you just said.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think one of the big mistakes toilet made with the BZ is they should have just called it the RAF4 or RAF4 EV, because Highlander such a strong brand just like RAF4 is, it makes sense to leverage that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't think BZ4X is a strong brand?

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't, that's a, so they could have called this the BZ8, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or the BZ8X.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's start with the Highlander.

[SPEAKER_00]: A call if you could roll the video and show Tommy what the Highlander looks like if you haven't seen it, I'd like to get your opinion on what you think of the styling.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think they did a good job.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, definitely there's a lot of RAF4 in the front end of this.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's got that new corporate headlight design that we're now seeing on the camera on the RAF4 and now of course on Highlander.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the best angles are rear.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they did a really cool thing with the rear.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very kind of tough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so, of course, this is going to compete with, there's a good shot of it, it's going to compete with the Ionic 9 and the EV 9.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the cool things about this is that it doesn't lean into that defender, very boxy look, so it's boxy, but yet it's kind of swept back and very modern.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they did do a good job with the styling, and I'm kind of a [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of getting over everybody copying the defender and making theirs, you know, a two or three box design and look, we have real door handles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, not, well, not real ones are still electric, but yeah, I was going to say they're not real at all, they're still but they're not like the ones you have to push out, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are recessed holes that you can reach into and actually grab onto something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you hear the news that China is thinking about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, heard that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Outlawing electric door handles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anything that is electronically actuated because people are, um, well, dying.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was an old gentleman who actually got stuck in his Tesla and couldn't figure out where the manual release was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he, uh, he died in his garage.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was stuck in the thing for like 36 hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a news story that hit a while ago.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't you think that's a good idea?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's a really good idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why designers have all gone and reinvented all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not just the door handle, but the shifter, which is when I'm looking at it right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everything got reinvented.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, now they're putting a light switch into the screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Stuff that just seems very stupid to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's especially like the, there are, there's an argument to be made for like an electronic shifter, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because you clear up a lot of space in the center console.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what they say for cubbies, for cup holders.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember when the four fusion went to the rotary shifter.

[SPEAKER_00]: When it opened up a lot of space, three in the tree tummy, three in the tree.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, we're kind of going back to that, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of companies are going back to that is called three in the tree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I figured Cole wouldn't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in the old and days, Cole, who was that mean, he's called out Cole.

[SPEAKER_02]: Poor Cole over here is getting roasted, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to call him out, and I'm trying to call you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't even know what a three on the tree.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I just asked, I didn't think he knew.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think a lot of people don't know that back in the 60s, they would put the shifter over here behind the steering wheel.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a lever that you would actually put in gear behind the steering wheel, and so that could throw it up a lot of space.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though there was, usually in those trucks, probably a third seat in the middle.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is like a term for yeah, yes, all right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So three on the tree is just just a cool kids way of saying calm shifter I mean, I think it was cool in 1954 These knees Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the bees knees [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but no, I mean like there's real there's real benefits to go into an electronic shifter right because you clear up a lot of space and there's real issues like with Honda's where you every time you try to like make a three-point turn you got to hit drive reverse drive reverse there's an argument for that but I'm saying with the electronic door handle it's not like you're saving room on the door for a more couple of space I just don't see the benefit of having electronic door handles it's just cool and [SPEAKER_00]: Except for designers love cool maybe saving some aerodynamic on the side of the car No, I actually that was a study believe it or not So they did a study because one of the reasons that the manufacturer's gave to you know make the door flush and okay Hold on let's take a step back for a long time customizers designers have been shaving off door handles This is not something new right if you look at if you look at like the seam a crowd those guys have been shaving door handles forever

[SPEAKER_00]: But the manufacturers have decided that the reason you do that, especially with an EV is because it makes the car more aerodynamic, and somebody actually studied it, and the truth is, the number was something like 0.002%.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so negligible that it was beyond meaningless, so you're not saving any arrow by not having door handles.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, every little bit count no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, I'm like they're very smart of an I am right.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've got that degree in engineering All right, so so I think it's a good thing and look, you may be thinking to yourself This is interesting that that doesn't affect America what the Chinese do sure so in America That there's no legislation saying you know you have to have a mechanical non-electronic [SPEAKER_00]: way of opening the door, but here's the fact China sells, I want to say if you can Google this call for me, but I think it's 26 million cars if you'd be so kind a year and we only sell last year I think we sold 16 million.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the market is bigger than this market and it's kind of like California, whatever happens in China will also happen here in America because it will be more expensive [SPEAKER_00]: one with well sure electric door handles and one without them so the Chinese regulation should and theory also uh... filtered down to america i mean not in chinese cars like the testers are made in china right in american cars the stupid thing about the electronic door handle is even in the cars in the u.s. you still need a manual override

[SPEAKER_02]: So, in a Tesla, in a Corvette, you've got the button, but you also have to have to have a lever in case that button fails, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we just released a new model Y, and in that one you've got the button, and then right in front of it, you've got a little handle you can pull up.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about the backseat?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's still hidden.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you watch my short?

[SPEAKER_02]: I did a whole short of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it hidden?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it hidden still in the door, in the door like pocket thing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's the door cubby, and then you lift up on the floor of the door cubby, and there's like an emergency strap you pull.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not going to be very easily found if the car is on fire or if the house is on fire.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's the argument that I think that the critics and electronic door handles are saying.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm with those people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they're just so stupid.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we have them in our feet out that my wife and I own, and I did just annoying and just don't see any benefit for them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Plus the cheap ones is the brand, I think, because like, still antists, I've cut the same door handle now on the feet out.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's on the Jeep Jerarchy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, it just looks cheap parts bin crap.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it really cheapens a brand, screens, screens really cheap in the brand.

[SPEAKER_00]: We just bought, we could talk about this too, we just bought a 2005 land cruiser and I drove back from the ranch because we're going to take it off road tomorrow and I was looking at that screen that's in with the old Toyota system, my God is that date that thing, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And as you can choose four colors, like red, blue, no, sorry, a green, blue, gray, or white, that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you got these giant icons that look like something out of, I don't know, 20 year old video game, or maybe a 30 year old video game.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it just really, the rest of the line cursor looks nice, but the second you look at that screen, the whole thing just looks like holy cow, is this horrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing about the screen is you drove it, but I couldn't see it, so you have to crank the [SPEAKER_00]: Brightness all the way up to actually see it in sunlight and I think what's happening over the well this this Land Cruiser just so you know has 240,000 miles So I think it's lost some pixels and I think a lot of the brightness has gone and that's gonna happen to all Screen's not just obviously the link was a screen with older technology, but still it's gonna happen to modern screens as well And so if you want to cheap in your screen number say these [SPEAKER_00]: Because in the new S class, they went from hyper to super screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still huge.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it does a new highlander of a big screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: We got to finish a highlander discussion.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's show them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully going into her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's pretty big.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I do still see switches for the climate control.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have theirs less switches.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a volume knob, so that's.

[SPEAKER_00]: But look at the HVAC is down in the screen in the bottom of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, but there's buttons for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Next to it I see it there's a defrost button and then a temperature button.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's good there So I mean, yeah, is it we're like what you gave me one knob and two buttons.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's better than that So I where I was going with this is I just drove the new Mazda CX5 yes, and Cole can you pull up an interior of the 26 CX5 and what they did What do you got some buttons there?

[SPEAKER_02]: What they did for the CX5 is they got it but they get rid of all the buttons inside the the new CX5 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a generation behind, now manufacturers are starting to get rid of screens and coming back to buttons.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mazda is now going in the deep end in the screen world.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's exactly how I felt about the system is, so they had this rotary knob system forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was horrible.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I hated it, you hated it, but people that own Mazda's actually love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I talked to a bunch of Mazda owners on my trip, Zach owned a Mazda, he loved it, case owned a Mazda, he loved it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was ancient.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it, but Mazda people say that you could, you could go through the menus without taking your eyes off the road.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was a benefit.

[SPEAKER_02]: And apparently, I haven't felt this way, but apparently, if you've lived with that rotary system after a few weeks, you come to love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've had now every Mazda owner I've talked to say that, so I'm not going to like, [SPEAKER_02]: Question at that much.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's an way you can keep your eye on the screen and the not the mouse and the test them out of the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Grock, turn the temperature to 68.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what they did in the new CX5 is they've got a Google built-in system with Gemini.

[SPEAKER_02]: And with Gemini, you can do exactly that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's basically using AI.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I hate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why do I need to talk to my car?

[SPEAKER_02]: How is saying, hey, Grok, turn the temperature to 68.

[SPEAKER_02]: Quicker than just clicking a button to 68, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's almost like a little dystopian.

[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of just being able to control a car, I have to talk to some fake human to control a car.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just, it's silly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, look, Mazda did too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually like a lot of the, [SPEAKER_02]: usability of the screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that it has Google Maps.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that the screen is pretty high-res.

[SPEAKER_02]: It tells you a lot of good information.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they put everything in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: They got rid of all the buttons.

[SPEAKER_02]: Volume.

[SPEAKER_02]: No volume knob.

[SPEAKER_02]: A climate control.

[SPEAKER_02]: No temperature knob.

[SPEAKER_02]: No fan knob.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's all the screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just too much.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you control the vents with your finger?

[SPEAKER_02]: That you can do.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is a good thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't go, they went like 98% of the way there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think what you said about cheapening the tears true because like the CX5, the new one has this incredible interior.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's the qualities of fit and finish the color palettes are so, so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the reason the cheap one said is if you show that interior again, Cole, it's like there's no design to that screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a block.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a big square stuck in the middle, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: No design or said, hey, let's somehow incorporate this screen, at least Mercedes does that [SPEAKER_00]: So Porsche does that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They have this new curved screen that's like a ski slope.

[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of comes down and add to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: At least there is some attempt to incorporate the screen into the actual design of the dashboard, into the holistic design of the car.

[SPEAKER_00]: But both the, [SPEAKER_00]: Toyota and the Mazda.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a big old iPad stuck on to, you know, in the middle of the dashboard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's lazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's going to make cars look cheap.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's cheap, but it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the problem is it ages them very quickly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're turning it from a, a finely crafted transportation good into a piece of technology.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if, like, with that O5 line cruiser, I mean, within five years, it's looking old within ten years, it's looking dated, and with when 20, it's almost laughably dated.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, like, if you compare that line cruiser to my landrover, they're both the same year, but my landrover doesn't have a screen on it, it uses physical buttons for everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it just looks much more fresh and modern, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like some really took the time to design the interior instead of relying on a little black square.

[SPEAKER_00]: to control everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have the Malays era of cars from the 70s with the fuel crisis, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where all the power was gone and all the fun was sucked out of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a screen era.

[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're living through the, I think I'm hoping toward the end of the screen era, but I think a lot of people will 20 years from now look back upon this as like one of the worst times for car design.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, did you see that new Ferrari in the?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I liked it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: He said screens are a crappy way to actually interact with the car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's right about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not a good way necessarily to interact with the car.

[SPEAKER_02]: But let's bring this back to the island a really quick.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let me give you some stabs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to figure out his difficult cell or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I've got an idea, and I have an apology.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have an idea and I have an apology, and then I have a retraction of the apology.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'm going to do three things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So first, the new Highlander is going to come with a front wheel driving a rear wheel drive.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're basically two models.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, probably they're driving out of the roof.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sorry, front will drive single motor dual.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's go that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to have a 77 kilowatt hour battery, a 98 kilowatt hour battery, front will drive 280 miles of range or so, all will drive without the XSC, which is this one, the really fancy one about 320 miles of range.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of where it should be in terms of where modern electric cars are right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which is good, not exceptional, I mean, the two that's never going to be, you know, the hair, they're always going to be the turtle, but there is one, there's two places where it's lacking, I believe, and I don't want to win genuine about it, but that's kind of my job.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first place is they specifically didn't mention in the press release or during the press presentation, what's the charging speed?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that to me suggested it's not class leading.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm guessing it's going to be like the BZ, which is 150 kilowatts, which is, you know, when you compare it to like an 800 volt system that like the ionic has, it's pretty, it's pretty, you know, it's getting dated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what they'll tell you is it'll take 30 minutes to go from 10 to 80 percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but that number is kind of meaningless because what's the charge or how much let me kill a wise is putting out, you know, what's the temperature?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's all these other factors.

[SPEAKER_00]: So having a real charging speed is a much better indicator of how good it will do.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing it doesn't do, but apparently Google does and Android does, for it is it doesn't do wrong planning.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, which is also bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: It does have an ax, so it does have the North American charging standard, which is a Tesla standard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it doesn't do Rob playing, but in order to effective Rob planning, you need two things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it does one, but it doesn't do the other, which the Tesla does.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the one that it does, I think, is [SPEAKER_00]: Google or Apple CarPlay will know the state of the battery, so it does share that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it knows how much battery you have, but it doesn't know the state of the chargers.

[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, it doesn't know like Tesla does, you know, there's 10 chargers on the two of them are occupied, or that one is down, or how many kilowatt hours they're putting out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And kilowatt's sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it knows half of the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you're going to build a three-row family haul in, [SPEAKER_00]: road trip in in my mind car, it should have, it should have rock planning, built in without having to, you know, go to like these band aids.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree that it should have it, but I do wonder in the real world, how many people are going to care about that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you're going to take your family across country, are you going to care about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I just don't know if people are going to use this vehicle for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think if they're planning the road trip, they're going to go by a Grand Highlander.

[SPEAKER_00]: because I like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the grand hell here will come in two flavors.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll come in a hybrid, and it will come in a regular ice, not a hybrid.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they'll have an electric highlander and a gas highlander, which also has three rows.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I just, it's an interesting conversation though, because like I've been talking to a bunch of EV owners, and you know, I run into my travels, and everything from like e-golfs, derivians, to Tesla's.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been talking to these folks like how often are you DC fast charging them and probably the 10 or 12 conversations I've had in the last two weeks, not a single one has ever used a DC fast charger.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just think that people that are buying these EVs in modern day from my tiny, tiny poll that I've been running, a typically live in a house, typically of home charging, and a lot of the times have other cars that they would rather road trip in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it seems like most of these EVs are a lot of people second or third cars.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like when I asked this one guy, I'm like, how fast is your Rivian R1 teacher, I've done a DC teacher, he's like, I don't know, I'm like, you carry, he's like, no, because I wouldn't road trip.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that is somewhat true, but when we bought the ID buzz, one of the reasons besides the fact that Steve was great over at Volkswagen of a running was we wanted a road trip because that is the quintessential road trip that she had been through SUVs are that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, if you have a RAF for EV, if there were such a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tesla Model Y.

[SPEAKER_00]: You may or may not road trip it, but these three rows tend to be the main family hauling vehicle, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're talking, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something like you have a me out as your main driver, and then, you know, that's the one you're going to take cross-country.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be your main main driver.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think this is especially important that it needs to be able to do around planning for road triping.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's my guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could be wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you could be right about that for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I [SPEAKER_02]: But I just think like certainly that one time of year you would need the road tripping that's going to be a real pain in the ass.

[SPEAKER_02]: But for most people just taking their kids to school, like if you've a place to charge it at home, you're not going to be route planning to the school, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So here's my question, okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, to it was late.

[SPEAKER_00]: There I say last to the EV game and now they're going to have four within a year they're going to be four of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They went one to four like that while everybody else is cutting EVs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that because Toyota is very slow in developing?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they came to the game late or is that because Toyota knows something that other manufacturers don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what I mean by that is every other manufacturer is pulling back for EVs and now now to quadruple or triple [SPEAKER_00]: The number of EVs you have is pretty bold.

[SPEAKER_00]: So is that because the product planning took so long that it took a long time to get to 2026 with EVs?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it because they've got their ionomagic ball and they're looking at it and they're saying, maybe EVs are going to become popular or are going to become more popular?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it because they need a car that, so this car is going to be built the new Highlander, both [SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing we asked this question, but certainly for it's going to be built in Kentucky.

[SPEAKER_00]: The batteries are also going to be built here, so both batteries and vehicle are going to be built here, but two is a global company, so the question of course was, is it going to export this year up, or is it going to get exported to Asia or wherever?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that answer was not forthcoming, so I don't know, but usually when Toyota plans something, they make sure that it's available for sale in the entire world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the things that could be happening is a term, it may feel that even though they're going to be building in America, this will be a world of current, it'll get sold everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's worth continuing with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think that's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they've tweeted as a lot of cars.

[SPEAKER_02]: They don't prefer the US market.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when they do that, they try to build cars that they can sell around the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think of the most popular cars, Corolla.

[SPEAKER_02]: Tacoma, only sold North America.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, not the trucks cars.

[SPEAKER_02]: Grand Highlander, only sold North America, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly the biggest selling cars, Camry, around the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Corolla, around the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Grand Highlander is another.

[SPEAKER_00]: Raff four, same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Grand Highlander is one of the biggest cars, period.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just telling you what the journalist said, and I agree with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: We welcome disagree.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can see if you can buy a highlander in Europe.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know, but I do know that like Europeans lead America in coffee and bread In the roads, you know, they have all you know when I first came here We had two kinds of coffee and that was decaffer regular now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can get, you know, the European kind Yeah, but we lead the world kind of in the kind of cars or we used to at least until China came along and so yes Big three row SUVs across over is we're not a thing But I think there are going to become a thing in Europe and so maybe that's what to it is looking at anyway that that side tracks and whole thing [SPEAKER_00]: Question is does Tuna know something that the rest of the manufacturing world does not know or did they just come to a late and they're kind of stuck with it Because now, you know, they got too far down the road and they had to unveil these three cars.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it does look like they're going to be selling this thing in a headwind Especially because you know since Since the Current administration has got rid of the tax credit right a lot of states are sunset in their tax credit That was a big driver of EV sales [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that's not going to be an option for Grand Highlander buyers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Cole, can you give me Google how many BZ 4xers were sold?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think it was 30 something thousand.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about this yesterday at dinner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a crazy thing, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That car was at least one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say two generations behind.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hey, go.

[SPEAKER_02]: A staggering 95.6% dropier here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not good news.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_02]: 920, how many were sold?

[SPEAKER_02]: 12,000.

[SPEAKER_02]: In 2025, 12,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: So which is amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was year to date when it was a historical written, scroll up cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: October, so they sold 12,000 directives, which is amazing because that car, you know, would be the last crown of my list because it was at least One maybe not if not two generations older than anything else out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's charging speed and it's and it's range Everything about it was just old tech really old tech and yet they still managed to sell 12,000 But for Toyota that's like Lotus selling one car, but I'm saying 12,000 such a drop in the bucket.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying is that Toyota because they're Toyota [SPEAKER_00]: has this ability to sell cars that other manufacturers may not have because people will buy them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me only put that in other words.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you want your first electric car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know nothing about Tesla and you know nothing about any what's the first brand you're going to look at.

[SPEAKER_02]: Probably if you're like 60 years looking for an electric car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's the first brand?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think people know Toyota makes electric cars.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying you're probably going to make an electric vehicle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to take this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you keep talking for a second?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean the [SPEAKER_02]: What I think is going to be the key to the highlander sales is going to be the pricing because I do think actually the specs well not best in class are fairly competitive.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the design is really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the interior direction they went with is pretty good and it's not a very offensive or polarizing car in any direction.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for me, [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see, let's think about the pricing.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you could get about 300 miles of range for $55,000, and have it be a fairly well equipped car with all the Toyota safety sense stuff, I actually do think that there's a potential to be a pretty big seller, but the pricing is gonna be what makes her breaks this car in my book.

[SPEAKER_02]: Going to the Patreon, by the way, if you are interested in supporting the podcast, patreon.com slash tfokr, we've got all the stuff over there, but you can also comment live on these podcasts, and I'll do the best to read them.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, trade, ask a really good question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd be curious.

[SPEAKER_02]: What you think is the worst car feature that is controlled by a screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, that is a good question.

[SPEAKER_02]: So basically what Tray is saying here, there's been a ton of features now that are being integrated into screens rather than having physical controls, and he gives his example that the Rivian air vent has to be up there.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is definitely up there.

[SPEAKER_02]: For me, I think it's probably headlights.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think anytime you integrate major safety features into a screen, it's never good because they're harder to access and there's always a potential for a glitter failure, so that's going to be me.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're answering trays, question here, then.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think is the worst car feature that is controlled by screen?

[SPEAKER_02]: He said the vents in the room.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, the vents by far.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a really good one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also in the Nautilus.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also think gear shift should never be on the screen, like I know your model, why has it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the model why has it, but they've got this, I don't know if it's AI or if it's just smart gear shift.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mark gear shift where it uses its sensors, if it sees that you're parked in front of a wall, it knows that you're not going to go into drive and so put you in reverse automatically.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, I had that feature turned off in the model why and I just turned it down because I really like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh good, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it works pretty well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it does tend to work pretty well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think The other really stupid thing that I don't understand well.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about technology is YGM is getting rid of CarPlay.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is very done.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that two out of try that and being the world's largest car company It didn't work.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what tried that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Toyota.

[SPEAKER_02]: What did they do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: They were the last to go to CarPlay.

[SPEAKER_00]: They kept they they were just slow to adopt [SPEAKER_00]: Not just slow, they specifically didn't want it, didn't want it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they were the last of the major manufacturers to actually implement it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because not because they wanted to, but because they had to, because there was so much pent-up consumer demand for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that that's kind of a deal breaker for a lot of...

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Perches of GM cars is the fact that there's no car play.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's just really, really stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's just, you know, I can take the dog for a walk in the morning.

[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to my podcast, I get in the car, just, you know, takes off, where I left it when I was walking the dog.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's really sweet and it's easy to use and I've got you know ways as part of that as well Which tells me where the cops are which I like and it tells me you know how to get somewhere quickly And so it's it's becoming the thing in a car If I'm being completely honest with you, I always am that I look for the most For by foreign enthusiasts, I agree headlights would be terrible and lockers on the Ranger Raptor Yeah, that's one two that's a little bit [SPEAKER_02]: kind of mind-blowing that they have such a major offered control in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, ultimately the reason they do that is it's cheaper, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's cheaper, you can move switches, you can put them in different places, you can make a bigger and larger on the screen versus having actually engineer in a physical control into the dash that you've got to cut a hole, you've got to build a switch, you've got to build the wiring, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just cheaper to put it in a screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, we were living in a really weird time, and maybe I, maybe because I, I wasn't doing this 30 years ago, but I, I don't believe I've ever lived through a time where the manufacturers are doing so many things that the consumer's hate, specifically not just dislike, but hate.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you have to take a poll to figure out that the most consumer's hate having, [SPEAKER_00]: vent controls in the screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or that they don't like, you know, electronic door handles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, this is, you get the manual.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even after like 10 years of this, because Tesla pioneered a lot of this stuff, and so a lot of people specifically won't buy Tesla's because of it, or are extremely turned off by it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, all the other manufacturers are adopting it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're completely toned off to the things that people are asking for.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very odd.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very odd time that we're living.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that it's not only are they creating features that people are not asking for and don't want, but then they're charging more for them, which is, that's just, I mean, it's, it's a real headscratcher.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that's why people are excited about companies like Slate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to go there.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were in the same wavelength.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I don't think people are excited by two-door compact truck.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're excited by the fact that this is actually something that is easy to use and doesn't have a plethora of all kinds of technology that is hard to decide for hard to use and unwanted.

[SPEAKER_02]: The problem with a slate is actually the same problem with the grenadier, which is something that I think does not get talked about nearly enough, and that's the spouse factor.

[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, like I would love a slate, I think that they're really cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love the two-door trucks, but then you got to run it past, you know, my wife, and she would say, well, where are we going to put stuff in the backseat?

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's no backseat, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Same thing was like a grenadier.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love a grenadier, and then it goes yanking you out of your lane, because the lane keeps us now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Break, break assisted.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we're saying this is the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I think that like the problem with what Slay has done with that two-door truck thing is it's the truck everyone says they want But then you look at the cold hard data.

[SPEAKER_02]: No one buy single-cap truck, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why they're going away is there's a reason you can't buy a single-cab Mid-sized truck and it's not because people love them.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's because people weren't buying them, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So the manufacturer's like why are we putting all this investment in single-cab mid-sizeders if people aren't buying them?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a soapbox I'm going to get up on for a sec.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, if you don't mind, but I've seen this play before, and I think I know where this is going to end.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what ends up happening is, and I think I saw this with Ruby in, when they first came out, and I'm thinking I'm seeing it with slate.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is this belief in maybe Silicon Valley outside of the, the usual places like Detroit.

[SPEAKER_00]: where, you know, a lot of cars are built or Tokyo that there is this pool of buyers that is etching for a small truck or an electric truck that lives outside of the pool of truck buyers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, so let me give you a metaphor, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's this giant pond full of trout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you have a friend.

[SPEAKER_00]: His name is Ford and he goes in there and he pulls out 600,000 trout every year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have another friend and his name is General Motors.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's Com Chevy.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Chevy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or Durant?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes and pulls out like when you combine, you know, him and his buddy GMC.

[SPEAKER_00]: They plow like 80,000 trucks out of that pond.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, here comes slate, and here comes Ruby, and they're like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go to this pond over here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We think that this pond, which firmly has sunfish in it, in other words, cars, has a whole bunch of trout that are hiding in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to go pull out trout out of this pond.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I know that is because [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be a little tfl now, you know, we are the biggest truck channel or Andrea runs a biggest truck channel on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think we're very close to the truck world and yet when Slate decided to, you know, do its first public introduction, they didn't invite us when they did their first video, they took it to J-Leno.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, because he's J-Leno.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the J-Leno.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many truck buyers are actually watching J-Leno?

[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is, [SPEAKER_00]: I get who I know I understand who J. Leno is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean he's he'd pretty big deal J. Leno Yes, he's a pretty big name.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a household name So it makes that's why they would go to J. Leno the problem that what you're saying is that they're trying to appeal to non-truck buyers Yes, they think that there's a And I think that works and there's there's a vehicle that proves that

[SPEAKER_00]: Pratone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maverick.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maverick is not bought by truck buyers, and we know that because when we did the towing test, we actually heard back from the Ford people and they say we've run the data and these Maverick buyers are not towing at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are not truck buyers and Ford flat out said the PR manager was like, people are buying Mavericks are not truck buyers and they sell a heck of a lot of Mavericks because what slate knows is that the baits [SPEAKER_02]: that are our friend Henry Ford and Walter P. Chrysler and Mr. Durand are using to get those truck buyers that bait's not gonna work on a non-truck buyer but the fish are different, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You need the right bait for the right fish.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe that type.

[SPEAKER_02]: It really works well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I tell you, I'm just gonna tell you why I don't believe that.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'll tell you why I don't believe that because we had a, we had a, we had a maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, we had a maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember how you had your little sample of 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I had like six months of driving that thing right and every time I would pull up to somebody in In a maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would just look over to him because I was curious who was driving it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and not in one of those instances.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tommy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now one of those instances did I see a woman or What we would call a mommy vlogger not in one sure figure if these are you know 50% of the car buyers are bought [SPEAKER_00]: by women right and yet I've never seen actually a woman and I'm not saying they don't drive him I'm not saying they'll love him I believe there are a lot of women but this is not a demographic that the that the that the maverick at least for my sample size has gone to I did see a lot of poop guy collectors in maverick sure I did see a lot of like pool guys yeah I did see a lot of like Riley's

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, parts guys and mavericks, but I did never saw like this mystery mysterious of nine, but you always see that in a review.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but counterpoint, I disagree completely because the women in my life who include my wife and also Mary, the only vehicle we've ever owned that either I'm cared about was a maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you didn't buy it from the company.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, because I don't like them ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't care enough to buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't like it that much, but my wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we specifically, one of the reasons we bought it was because you were like, Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was too expensive and I just wasn't feeling it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like it that much.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that was me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Morgan loved the truck.

[SPEAKER_02]: She thought it was awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just wasn't that excited about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like if four of themselves are saying, [SPEAKER_02]: that truck people are not buying each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's facet, you're the managing editor of TFO car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not that huge of a truck guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was boring.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had nothing to do with being a truck or not a truck.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just wasn't interested in the product.

[SPEAKER_00]: It might be that.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're not that big of a truck guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're really not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not that that that you don't like truck.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not a very, I'm not a truck guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You, you, you, you tobe with, you know, hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm not a new car.

[SPEAKER_02]: guy, that's the problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't own a new car because they're too expensive.

[SPEAKER_02]: I went to Morgan, I said for $36,000, we could have this landover and $30,000 left over for repairs.

[SPEAKER_02]: That'll last a least a month.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she bought on board with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the product was an interesting to me because it was new, not because it was a bad product.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't see the value in spending $36,000 on appreciating asset.

[SPEAKER_02]: even though it's arguably they don't appreciate very much.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that if four of themselves are saying truck people are buying these, no one's crushed out being a maverick with an F-150.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even think people are crushed out being a maverick with the ranger.

[SPEAKER_02]: That thought product is bought by someone who's looking at a RAF 4 or a brand new one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good luck, it's poop.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure, or Riley's part-sky, he's 100% buying a Maverick, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of fleets.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think that that is proof, but the key here is, and this is the big deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: The reason that that works for the Maverick is that it's a useful for-door family vehicle, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm not a truck person, I want a vehicle that works like a car but has a bed for the occasional adventure.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know who wanted him?

[SPEAKER_02]: Can I finish this point?

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that works great with the Maverick.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm looking at a slate, [SPEAKER_02]: Then the conversation changes, because a slate doesn't work like my CRV.

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have a back seat, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have a place to put more than two people comfortably.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then that conversation shifts back to now I got to convince the hardcore truck guy to buy this weird real drive 150 mile range thing and I'm not sure they will.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've only known, once again, I don't want to be sexist, but this is a small scam.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only known to one woman who has lost it after my average.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary loved the Maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mary's dream car is a Maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, not Mary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mary didn't love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she loved it, but she didn't like lost after it.

[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't actually buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know one woman would have bought it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Should we call her?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't call.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't call.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't call her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't call her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't call her [SPEAKER_00]: and she bought it for two reasons, one she wanted to track, which is cool, and two she wanted, I think, I should let her tell the story, I shouldn't tell her story, but I think she wanted, like the self, the self, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the driver's systems back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason when they ordered it, the dealer screwed it up, but they didn't get it, so that's why she sold it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she's the only woman I've known who's actually bought, I'm average.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a very tiny sample size.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to make this sexes, and this is kind of the road that's going down.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there are vehicles, I think, that appeal to both men and women.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can give you a good example of that, a wrangler.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or a wrangler, I think appeals to equally to both men and women.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't feel that that maverick, or should I say that that there is that pond of none truck buying people.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's say that you're in that sunfish pond, and there are some trout swimming right in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some trout, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's some trout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Toyota's swimming around there.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some oxyos in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's fishing.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's some trout.

[SPEAKER_00]: But why wouldn't you go and fish in the freaking truck pond?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you go after truck buyers?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, why don't you lure the buyers out?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because their argument is that those truck buyers, they're not going to buy a small electric truck.

[SPEAKER_02]: Those guys, they're big in the gas, they're big in a four wheel drive, they're big in a large beds.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're already taken care of, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, especially if you look at how competitive and cut throat is if I was at trying to enter a new market I'm I'm not trying to want to go astray until the truck podcast by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's a story.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm right The truck podcast from the non truck person Yeah, you're a truck guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I shouldn't say you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really a truck guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've never owned a truck I just like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm an off-road guy, but I don't think I'm a truck guy I just I don't I don't need to truck from my life so I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't track but You just said something interesting you said that that market is saturated [SPEAKER_00]: But that market is saturated with the last five, 10 years, very expensive trucks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you come in with a price point truck, electric or gas, I think you're going to do well in that pond.

[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, if your bait is the bait that people are expecting, which is an affordable truck at this point, however, that translates.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to catch some trout.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, none of these people out.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're fishing for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're all, you know, they're all out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem is you're not going to fish with them [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not going to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the problem with that is it's just not going to work period.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that is also the problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm going to say it right here right now, the slate's not going to sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's just not.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to have a big initial first year like the Ineos, and I think they're going to sell a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then year two, once those people have that product, think it's going to be a tough sell.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really think if I was in their position, I would be doing everything to try to license a foresolder from Toyota or Nissan or someone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And stick that in the truck.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that product with a gas engine at $25,000 is very compelling.

[SPEAKER_02]: That product at $30,000 was an electric power train that only go 150 miles in his rear wheel drive.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure there's an audience.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've just seen this story before, I know how this story ends, it'd be it, you know, the plethora of electric truck companies that are now, you know, dead workhorse, I can go through [SPEAKER_00]: through a mile.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could just see some of my guy in Seattle because I guess Amazon has this thing where you could float ideas up to because obviously Slade is partially funded by Basel so you can float like these crazy ideas and I can see somebody like hey, you know what's that out there?

[SPEAKER_00]: A cheap electric truck that's very basic and then they floated it but it's some tech bro or broy gal or guy who don't understand who doesn't understand and who did not take the time to understand who and why and where trucks are bought in America.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they just had this idea and because non-truck people, you know, green-litred doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're right, the first thing I should have thought of is, let's see how many dead, forget electric trucks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just talk about regular trucks that are too door.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why isn't anybody selling a two door door?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That means there's other reasons why you also don't see two RSVs like the chicken tax, but they also just don't work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[SPEAKER_02]: A fundamentally you're selling a practical tool and then making it in practical for a lot of use cases.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in the tutor SUV.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take you and me as example.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an empty nester.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're young.

[SPEAKER_00]: newly somewhat newly married man so you go and you know if you were to go to let's go to the website because you can't go to the slate dealership you go to the website and you're more than looking at the slate and you're like configuring it and at some point at your age you'll be like I'm not putting words in your mouth when I'm saying hey maybe we'll want to kid sure and the first question will be like where do we put the kid?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what site would say is that's when you convert your truck to the SUV and how safe is that in a bank seat?

[SPEAKER_02]: They say five star safety.

[SPEAKER_02]: As a big test crack.

[SPEAKER_02]: They said the crash test is like 70 of them or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, no, I'm not like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be crashed as said by the instrument is behind.

[SPEAKER_00]: We say so because doesn't exist.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I saw on the interview.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are crash testing them.

[SPEAKER_02]: The NIH, yes, they give, they give the insurance institute of highway safety.

[SPEAKER_02]: It has the district call, can you look up to see it?

[SPEAKER_02]: It may not be published, but they work with them for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what they said, which is more interesting, this is, you'll appreciate this.

[SPEAKER_02]: They said, when that vehicle is released, it will have IIA just top safety pick.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't think it's been crash tested because as far as I know, I had H.S.

[SPEAKER_00]: only buys, the only buys trucks that vehicles that are in production.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, as far as I am aware, and I appreciate, you know, you reading this, I'm not calling you a liar.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not saying I'm just saying they are saying that, I don't have the need.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had H.S.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you did you watch the J.L.N.O.R.O interview, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who worked, who

[SPEAKER_02]: So here's what it says, numerous slate vehicles have undergone internal crash testing with early test indicating the vehicles meeting or exceeding benchmark for five star race safety ratings and IHS top safety pick goals.

[SPEAKER_02]: Goals.

[SPEAKER_02]: goals.

[SPEAKER_02]: I bet when that trucks out, it'll be IHS top 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just we're journalists and so let's let's let's be a little let's be a little hard nose here Tommy and let's, you know, let's not take the companies word for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great, but no, let's wait till because I know IHS, I get that wrong, only buys vehicles and then they test them only if they're for sale and in production they're not doing any [SPEAKER_00]: manufacturer, a favor by saying, Nudge Nudge Wink won't give you a five-star rating even before we get there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's see other one than I'm thinking of.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's two crash test companies.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also in Europe as in Europe.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, there's end-cap two, but there's another one in Europe.

[SPEAKER_02]: The anyways, I look at that.

[SPEAKER_02]: The reason I think that it will be IHS safety-rated is because the people that work there are not just some people that fall off the street.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of the people are Tesla.

[SPEAKER_02]: We personally know the power train guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to convert your pickup truck.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes I feel you like to argue for the sake of our own one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm just a normal person, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking for a vehicle for my family, potentially my growing family.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know your mom, and if I said to her, hey, guess what, honey, let's get this electric truck and she'll be like, hey, when Tommy is born, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll convert it to, you know, she looks at me and she'd be like, why don't you just get the Ford or now?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you completely.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's an impractical, and this is why it's not going to sell, is because it's an impractical choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: My argument is it's not a safety thing, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: If they can get that safety stamp of approval, that I think leaves the conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what doesn't leave the conversation is, what do we do with the kid?

[SPEAKER_02]: We've got our hands full, there's only two doors.

[SPEAKER_02]: We can't get him in the backseat.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do we do with that?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, let's go back to cars.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have a little bit of a high-ender cell.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'd like your high-ender.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'll actually sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be optimistic.

[SPEAKER_02]: I said when you were gone, it all depends on the price point.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think if it's 55, I think there's a good chance it will sell.

[SPEAKER_02]: If it's 75, I think it's that the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'll sell just because it's two people, you know, people will give two to the better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: To some extent, but like what?

[SPEAKER_02]: How much, uh, how far will that go, you know, because I know, like, that article they sold 12 or whatever, 20,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say that when Honda rebranded, um, the blazer, they actually sold more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you read the article that they came out with?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't read it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to say they lost like $3 billion on that part.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they still sold more than GM.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, because they were Honda.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no doubt that that brand will sell a certain number of vehicles.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just not convinced that it's going to be a long-term sales hit for Toyota, especially if it's too expensive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I also love that they're giving people a choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're walking on a dealership, and you don't want the electric one.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a Grand Highlander.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look, beasy for exult, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say, I'm up in the October they sold 12,000.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of vehicles for a small automaker, for Toyota, there's no one in Toyota saying that's a sales hit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just surprised it sold 12,000 because it was such a, like I say, that's your point.

[SPEAKER_02]: How strong that brand is is that 12,000 people off through October said, oh, buy one of those or release one of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, cold.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any more comments that we can answer?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there any?

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll keep going.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, tell me about the Mazda.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you like it?

[SPEAKER_00]: As much as you can before the embargo, because you did a video comparing it to, I believe, three other midsays.

[SPEAKER_02]: They go tad pee.

[SPEAKER_02]: The root of all evil in the out of world is descended from Tesla.

[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: There is a, maybe not total trees nepoters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some truth that like a lot of the things we hate about new cars, no volume controls, big touch screens, the vents that are controlled by the computer, that all did come from Tesla.

[SPEAKER_00]: The big screen that stuck in the middle of the dashboard.

[SPEAKER_02]: It all came from Tesla.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably another 15 things like the door handles, electronic door handles.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was another one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, getting rid of like and actually you just mentioned in you know, getting rid of the spedometer and the techometer, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have those in the review.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that was a Tesla thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a Tesla thing putting in the middle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think media at first but still, you know, Tesla.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they didn't put it in a screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: They had a separate dial.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the mustache is interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the new CX5, what they did is they kind of...

[SPEAKER_02]: And in a lot of ways, they listened to what their customers were saying in the CX5, and the previous generation was pretty small.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they grew at four and a half inches length.

[SPEAKER_02]: The trunk space is up big from 29 to almost 34 cubic feet worth of space.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's got that lost screen on the inside, which we talked about.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's got a lot more rear seat legroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: The rear seat, I think, is one of the best in the class.

[SPEAKER_02]: Same with the headroom is excellent, excellent, excellent.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing that people are really upset about.

[SPEAKER_02]: the comments I've read just don't like the tablet in the dash and then people are also bummed out that they got rid of the turbo so for 25 you can get this pretty neat for a cylinder turbo setup now it's only the naturally aspirated in line 4 that's been around for 15 years now so I think in some ways it's a step forward and in other ways it's maybe [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of feel like the manufacturers can't win.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when they add a turbo, people hate it because of reliability and because of, you know, they can't win, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when people complain about the knobs, they get rid of all the knobs, and then people complain about them getting rid of all the knobs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like it goes, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but it's a tough place to be in product planer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: But um, and hitting it just right is not easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very tough.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a tough thing to balance as an automaker.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure that they got everything right on this Mazda.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we'll have driving impressions next week.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, somebody said something smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's true in the comments in your video.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to see that video head over to Altia Faller, if you want to see the Highlander EV Highlander, see the same place, Altia Faller, they said the reason they wouldn't buy Mazda is because they don't have enough dealers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's always been...

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of the biggest issue that Mazda has had.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a small company where the small deal in that work.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you live in a place where there is no dealer, and it's easy to live in a place where there's no dealer, 500 miles away from you, then the chances of you buying a Mazda are pretty slim.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I think that's exactly on the money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Mazda should think about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they want to grow their business more, then this is certainly whether it's got a turbo or not that would just be my thought.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so the working on a hybrid system and in-house hybrid system, which is supposed to come out in 27, my opinion the car should have launched with that, because that would have been something they needed, especially because RAF4 has gone all hybrid.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's two sun hybrid.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's CRV hybrid that are all really big sellers.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's the road plug and hybrid tell if you want to go down that route.

[SPEAKER_02]: You see the pricing on that?

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Too much.

[SPEAKER_02]: The new Rogue Plugin Hybrid, which is the rebadged Mitsubishi.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's for some reason.

[SPEAKER_02]: It clips across.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Normal Outlander.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's $5,000 more in the Mitsubishi.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a worse car because it's the old pre-face lift one.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are they doing over there?

[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's something interesting, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like, I'm kind of, of two minds on this, all right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, give me a, let me take a step and back and tell you what I mean.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we started this show podcast by saying that Toyota has already announced that they're going to take $5,000 and put it on the hood of the next EV that you buy or give you 0% financing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the three is the CHR, the BZ, and the BZ Woodland is three and it's three and it's three and the ones that are going to be in either available or will be very soon at the dealership.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's I mean that's a significant chunk of money because these cars are you know in the $40,000 range give or take.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a significant chunk of money considering they're not really on sale.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what, well, yeah, they're already discounted already on sale.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but the CHR's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're already discounted in the far that they haven't been on sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's 5,000 to 40,000 to 40,000 to 40,000?

[SPEAKER_00]: What percentage is that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're already offering a 12% discount, which is huge, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not good at math.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big percent.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very good tummy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's close.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when we went to pick up that land cruiser, we picked it up from my friends mother-in-law.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, hey, by the way, because we're doing the series where we've got this model Y.

[SPEAKER_00]: We drove here without ever touching the stream.

[SPEAKER_00]: I told you that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she looked at the model Y and she said, I would never buy an electric car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the headwind they're fighting against.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the headwind.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why they're fighting against.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you've got these two things like people are, everybody's complaining, not everybody, but a lot of people are complaining rightfully so the car prices have gotten too crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, and yet, when Toyota offers $5,000 on the hood, they would never even consider it because it's electric.

[SPEAKER_00]: As if somehow that car isn't worthy or isn't, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't, I those two things don't live in my head [SPEAKER_00]: If we're living during the E.V.

[SPEAKER_00]: 1, 20 years ago and electric cars were truly like, you know, crappy and had no range and you couldn't even 10 years ago and you couldn't charge them and you couldn't like cross-country him.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the charging network has rapidly been built out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Electric cars have a lot of advantage over internal combustion.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of this advantage is too, but there's a lot of advantages.

[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, they're cheaper to maintain, they're quiet, they're faster, quicker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no necessary maintenance on the downside, you know, burn through tires, quicker.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do have range anxiety, you know, you need a charger at your home, potentially to make them, you know, usable in and every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: But on the other side, if you have a charger in your home, then your home becomes its own gas station.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of pluses, and yet, [SPEAKER_00]: people would never even consider that car in that same conversation just because it's I'm doing air quotes here electric and that's that's a shame because for some reason cars have become political and as a person who loves all cars I don't care what they're powered by a coal steam electricity internal combustion diesel I just love cars I don't understand why it has become so politicized and so like crazy that it's some kind somehow people internalize

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, hemie guy or, you know, I would never touch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't understand that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there's all, there's all the things you need to take into account, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: There's other valid concerns for not buying an AV.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like the, [SPEAKER_02]: We need to replace our 500E.

[SPEAKER_02]: See, you're soon, because the lease is going to be up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you pay zero for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I'm saying we still need to replace it, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been looking, poking around, because we want to stay EV, because for our lifestyle, we have a place to charge.

[SPEAKER_02]: All the things you said are, have proven to be true.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have three chargers at the right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've got three chargers at the ranch, so we could charge.

[SPEAKER_02]: three different ports now but the like I was considering Morgan likes Toyota so I was looking into like CHRs and stuff and then I was looking into that five.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was not a thing I'm like ooh things are looking good but then I was curious to see what like BZ4X is doing in the use market and by buying that car [SPEAKER_02]: There's not a for sure guarantee, but a high probability that you would be bleeding money in three years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a major factor.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Lisa or by used one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's the solution.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're looking at.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we least amount of money.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we're looking at like a tour.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was looking at a tour three year old area with 30,000 miles, 20,000 miles.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how much are those?

[SPEAKER_02]: Those cars were 45, 50,000 miles new.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think that's worth now?

[SPEAKER_02]: 25.

[SPEAKER_02]: 19.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you bought that 45 grand I'm saying but that's why they're not interest that's one of the reason I agree It's true, but there's other reason you want to lease it and that's because the technology is improving so much Sure, did you're probably buying old technology actually going by but leasing is also problematic.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean a lot of the times it's so by use it's a bad [SPEAKER_02]: I will, I'm not, you don't have to tell me that, but I'm saying, as that lady who about the land cruiser, these could be other factors that are preventing or from being excited about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think her issue was the value.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that because some people have grown up with internal combustion, being the thing that they associate with cars, I mean, the true meaning of conservative is that you don't like change the non-political meaning or change is something that is not good [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people fall into that category where like I have always been I think and that's why it's so hard for me to understand Because I've always been an early adopter so for me change is exciting That's why we're doing the series about self-driving But like I was talking a lot of my journalist friends and I was telling him hey, we just went 2000 miles without touching the steering wheel on the Tesla and they looked at me like like wow that sucks

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think in her instance, two dead, you also have to look at a use case, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They live quite remote.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're... No, but I'm saying like they also live in a place that gets historically huge amounts of snow, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the mountains.

[SPEAKER_02]: You, but maybe they don't, maybe they have power outages, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They can't regularly charge the car, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: The remote enough where that could be.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so if you're out of gas and you can't get to the gas station, you have a gas canister, and then you put more gas in the car, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You, you know, electric canister, unless you get a power wall or solar, and that could be the other way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could then use the electric car to power your house, once the electric lines go down because of the snowstorm.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that cuts both ways.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that there's valid arguments in both camps.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's amazing to check that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me cut to the chase.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that electric cars were a place in internal combustion let's start with in China?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Europe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: America.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's where I'm at.

[SPEAKER_02]: At least not in probably the next 50 years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys, should we call it here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.

[SPEAKER_00]: Call any other comments before anything else we can answer before we wrap it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened to you, a podcast and Thursday.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know, we both, we both in travel and not great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you guys are interested in that land cruiser that we bought, we're going to do a Land Cruiser series with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're super excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have owned an 80 series and we have owned a 200.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have never owned a 100.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to have some fun with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the goal is there to build it up, a cheap off-roader.

[SPEAKER_00]: a budget off-road or shall I say so if you're wondering what we're gonna be doing with that that's that's what's coming with that I think build it up as a stretch.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean just putting tires on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, we'll do more than that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll build it up tires and wheels.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, you were hard at here first.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a little belt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, we'll do more Shall I spell the beans y'all spell the beans?

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to buy also a new one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh, and then the theory is [SPEAKER_00]: We'll take the new one and the old one and we'll take them off road and we'll see how they do Yep, in stock form because both will be stock and then the goal will be can we build out the old one to match the new one?

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's find out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that means a lot of means bigger tires.

[SPEAKER_00]: It means you know because the problem is the new one does have a rear locker And it does have a Disclgentable sway bar Which the old one doesn't have yeah, you know if I don't think ours does have the script will sway bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do yeah, it does [SPEAKER_00]: Not the blue one that you're thinking about buying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that'll be easier for the old one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.