Is the Future Scary Or Exciting? | Mickey Leech with Schumacher Electric

I see so many friends of mine who, who have become that grumpy and you know, they, they think there's loyalty with the shop owner, but the shop owner hasn't been doing them any favors. Right? No, they've got a, it's the individual's responsibility to grow and develop, like you said, but the shop leader has to provide those opportunities.

I'm just sitting here with a, a new friend of mine, somebody that I don't know all that well, but I had the pleasure of meeting at SEMA, Mr. Mickey Leach from Schumacher Electronics. How are you today?

Hey, I'm doing fine, thanks and had a good time in Vegas with you. So appreciate you having me on the show.

Yeah, now that's, I meant to ask because how many times have you been to sema?

Now I've only been formally in the industry for four years, so it's, we had Covid for one of those years, so it's only been three.

And like I was saying, when I got to meet you, that was my first time and we talked about how I've been wanting to go to SEMA since I was a young, young whippersnapper of a boy. Before I had a driver's license, I knew what SEMA was. And so you're, you're the CEO, I can say that, of Schumacher Electronics, right?

Yep. Schumacher electric. We're a 77 year old company. Yeah, I'm, I'm leading the organization after the, the, the son of the founder turned the business over to me. So we're, we like to think of ourselves as the third generation.

Right on, right on. Very established name in the industry. I'm sure everybody that's ever been in a shop or worked in a shop at some points can remember seeing an old Schumacher battery charger. You know, that kind of stuff. Like they've been around a long, long time. I know I've grown up. There's been one in my garage my whole life. So, you know, when I got a chance to meet with you, I was pretty honored because it's, it's, it's a big deal.

You know, the, one of the nameplate brands within the industry. So what's your, you say you're relatively new, you got a kind of an interesting background. Can we talk about it a little bit?

Sure, sure. I hope, hope it's interesting enough to talk about.

It certainly will be, yes.

So I. So prior to coming to Schumacher Electric, I was in the outdoor power equipment business. It was a company called MTD Products. The business has since been sold to Stanley, Black and Decker. And we represented great brands like Cub Cadet, Troy built and we also made the Craftsman products for Sears and then now Craftsman for Lowe's. So it's. I always think of. I was in the service business for outdoor power equipment and so many of the people I worked with wanted.

We all had cars and we all worked on cars.

Yeah.

So, you know, there are professional mechanics for small engine, but then side. Side automotive mechanics, you know, under the shade tree.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like I kind of can see how the similarities in that industry versus the automotive are very closely tied. Right. Like, I mean, Craftsman, when we think about that, like there's so many of us still that started out on Craftsman tools. Right. Or grandpa had Craftsman tools and you're, you're talking about some pretty big nameplates. So I mean that's, that's pretty neat. The.

Did you grow up as kind of like a. Were you a gearhead or.

Yeah, so I grew up. So my father always liked old convertibles. So I grew up around a couple versions of a 64 Corvair, which wasn't. Everyone knows what it is, but it wasn't very popular. And then I was also into early 70s convertible muscle cars.

Oh, nice.

Like every couple years we were working on a car and then he'd see something he liked, we'd sell the other one so that we could buy a new one and then work on it.

Yeah. I remember the Corvairs reading about them as a, as a young lad in, in different automotive trade publications and everything. And for people that don't. Aren't really aware, Corvair is a kind of. Can we say it's a mid engine or is it a rear engine? But it's air cool. Air cool. Kind of think for the.

More.

God, I'm dating myself, Mickey. Think about a Fiero before a Fiero was a Fiero. That's kind of the, you know, Zorcus Duntov that was famous for the Corvette, had a soft spot for European technology obviously, and was into the. So that's kind of how the Corvair came. They did not sell well. They were quirky. They had a lot of weird things about them. But there was.

They. They did some really. They're a pretty cool looking car now. When you see them at the car shows, they're pretty and the people are.

They stand out because they're pretty different. And in the US they weren't really considered safe. So it was another reason to maybe have it because other people didn't want it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Of course, back in 64 there were no seat belts, right. So you know, I grew up in a car that didn't have seat belts. So when that rule became important, it seemed like, hey, we're pretty, pretty special this way.

Ashtrays and no seat belts, right?

Yeah. Why, of course, why would you need them?

So your dad, what was he like? He was obviously a tinkerer. But where, how did the. And is that how you got the passion for just this kind of stuff?

Yeah, yeah. And just he, yeah, he, he was a sales guy and he was just tinkering and I think, you know, the, the nostalgia of, of that particular vehicle drew it to him. And we were also cheap, right? Sometimes you're cheap and poor. I just tend to think we were probably both, but I felt like we were just cheap. Yeah, you learn how to do anything yourself, right? It's maybe back in those days because we could right now. You know, I listened to some of your, your sessions and it, it's too hard, it's too complicated for me to tinker professionals.

It's come very far, right. With the sense of what you need access wise for information. You know, like we can all talk about the days of even, even in the small engine stuff. Now you can see where more and more, where it used to have a set of points has got a, an ignition module, right? And now an ignition module is where a lot of older technicians at the very beginning were like, ah, once that's in there, man, I don't know, like how do I troubleshoot that, right? Which is still. It's very basic, right? But back in the mechanical points we could see and we could understand what was going on. And then as soon as you put this module in place and then you talk to the really old guys, Mickey, like that are used to a magneto, right? And they go, I don't want, you know, and it's like, it's. Dude, the principles are all the same, you know. So yeah, it's the biggest thing now I find when I'm talking to people is the information access is what's keeping so many people from being, you know, going into this yet.

We're inundated. We were just talking about that with tick tock and everything else, the amount of information that's available to us. But yet at the same time, is it accurate information? Is it really valuable information?

Right, right. And we, we scratch the surface with everything, right? So, you know, it's really hard to get an expertise in a particular area. You can go find a video On a, on a quick little fix. But it doesn't teach you, you know, any of the diagnostic work or any of the stuff that comes with judgment.

Yeah, well, and that's it, you know, because it's like so much. We have a saying on my side. It is like, well, an engine DTC or an engine code is not a part number yet. You know, people that are familiar with the product line, you can almost kind of say I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't really as simple as that for me for a long part of my career, because there were certain, certain DTCs. You always knew. Exactly. Then I have to go and look at this part. It was as simple as looking at that part.

Yes, you're breaking down a system, but you didn't go look at that part. So, you know, when we're talking with the people in the outer realms of, you know, the DIYers, whatever, it's like Google and everything has been a man a fantastic tool for teaching people how to where to look and gives them some information. But you know, we talk about the same people that they put six parts on a car trying to fix a system and there's a bad ground. Well, that doesn't help anybody. And then as you know and you've seen through your. Sometimes the parts that we're putting on, you know, we're taking off a good part in the name of trying to diagnose something. We put on a part that is not working at all. So now we created another ripple into the, into the whole onion.

You know, it's crazy. So what. When you were in the power sports side of things, what was the biggest. I don't want to say hurdle, but like, is it similar that you, you guys had restriction to access for information or.

Well, it. So when I started, it was like 2003 and you know, we were just then putting illustrated parts lists online and you know, trying to, you know, people work in the parts desk, you know, they knew the part numbers, they knew everything. And you know, after a while, it just got too complex and it all had to be put digitally and online. Yeah, we spent a lot of time and energy around cataloging parts and making that information accessible to. To everybody. But in the end, I, I think it's the same challenges that I see today in that consumers think it's too simple.

Right.

You know, they come in, they tell you what you need to do, and then when you explain to them why, it just cost, you know, took you three hours. And however much cost that was. They. They don't believe it. Right. They. They just think it's such a simple fix. So I.

It's even more so in automotive, but even in outdoor power equipment, there's some complex electronics, there's some complex systems that it's more than just changing out a part.

Yeah, for sure. You know, we talk about the people that. One of the big conversations come up is like, I don't want to pay 150 for a diagnostic. You know, the Internet tells me this is the known part. Well, I can't just put the known part on for you because it's the known part. If it doesn't fix the car, you're now upset with me and it's wasted money. Like, I have to advocate for you. Maintenance is a big thing.

Did you. I mean, again, because it's. I've kind of dabbled in. In smaller engine stuff. But is that the biggest kind of. I want to say, probably misuse and lack of maintenance. Right.

I would say that was the biggest contributing to most issues, and it was actually a great way for a lot of shops to earn some supplemental income was to create service programs.

Okay.

You know, like, if you take care of any vehicle, it's going to perform well for you. Right. So while I've got it in the shop, I want to make sure it's ready to do other things. You know what, one of your. One of your guests a couple weeks ago was talking about the imbalance between an oil change and when you need to rotate and align your tires. Right. If. If consumers got it around their head to be able to do those things at the same time, or a service package, you know, everybody's happy.

So there's ways to kind of steer the end user into a good experience, which then reflects well on. On all of us because the vehicles perform well for them.

Yeah. I mean, nobody really. I think. And that's the thing in whether we're talking about cars or whether we're talking about a lawnmower. I mean, people are not intentionally, I believe, putting things out there that they know are going to have expensive failures. Right. Because it's killing the name brand. You know what I mean? It's like you've got 70 some years, you know, as an example, and millions and billions of dollars invested in your name.

You're not knowingly putting out things that are going to be not past the rigors of what it needs to be used for every day. Right. Like, it just makes me upset when everybody goes, oh, they knew that was going to fail.

Yeah. And for us, you know, we're making battery chargers and jump starters. And, you know, we cover the whole range of products and users. The quality and performance are so much better in what we make than it was in the past.

Yeah.

Just like a vehicle, but the performance and it does so much more. So it's more complex.

Yeah.

You know, so there. It's. It's a lot of times just troubleshooting when people don't really understand what it's supposed to do.

And see, I didn't know until I met you that you guys are branching out into the kind of. The evidence you're dabbling into. Into that.

We entered the EV charger market a couple years ago and really focused on, you know, staying true to our roots in that we are a battery charging company for vehicles. Right. So any car in your garage or in your shop, we. We feel like we should be able to take care of the battery for you. So whether it's EV or an old, you know, antique, we've got a charging solution for everybody.

Yeah, you guys sent me a couple of your new. And that's the other thing I. People, I gotta. I should have had the boxes here. They sent me a couple of the portable jump packs and they, you know, everybody. It's another portable jump pack. Theirs is really cool, guys, because it literally has wireless charging built into it. So you can just put your cell phone on the top of it and it will sit there and charge your phone.

Now, I'm talking to the mechanics. You're constantly probably, like, plugging in different tools. We're all used to using electric tools now. But you're constantly wondering, how do I get my phone charged? Well, a Schumacher's got a is. They were. When I looked at that, at your display at sema, I was like, God, why didn't I think of that? Like, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And it really stems from what we're trying to do with all our tools, and that is how do you create more value for the user. Right. So it's either more intuitive so that you don't have to spend time trying to troubleshoot the actual product, or giving you more features. And in this case, cable management is always a struggle, no matter what you're doing, or hose management is always a struggle. So it was like, well, wait a minute. Let's figure out how to put a wireless charger here. Unfortunately, our engineers did a great job, and we've got some patents and some things that were being able to protect ourselves.

And so really claiming the only ones in the market with that capability on a lithium jump pack.

Yeah. I was amazed when I saw it. I thought it was the neatest little thing in the world. And then, you know, for you guys to be able to send it to me, it's just like, I'm so blessed, you know, like, to have a conversation, you guys, to reach out to me and go, here, take a couple of these and demo them. Like, I mean, that's, man, I'm over the moon with that, you know.

Fantastic. And, you know, we appreciate what you're doing, really, to everybody. Right. I mean, it's, it's what you're seeing every day. So many other people are seeing it and just need a place to talk about and get through it together.

Yeah. What's a day to day like at your job? Like, not just what you do, but kind of like break it down for some people that are trying to these bigger companies. Like, I understand that it's so many levels and so many layers, but, like, when you're looking for young people to come in, what do you look for?

Technical aptitude is the biggest. Right. So the biggest area of our employment is in operations and in engineering. And, you know, I think working in a factory has gotten a bad rap. You know, I think we all think about, you know, steel mills and production lines from the old, old days and movies and, you know, there's so much technology and automation in our operations. There's a lot of technical skill and a lot of math that goes into it. And running a modern factory is not kind of like a grandfather's factory. Right?

For sure.

We spend a lot of time with process improvement and industrial engineering and making sure things are operating quicker, smoother, faster. And then with product development, you know, we're constantly improving the products that we already have in the market and then advancing the technology. So really understanding how things come together and the capability, working with other people.

Is pretty important because that must be where a lot of that, some of that input that you guys, you know, how to make better must come from a lot of those conversations of people that are like myself, that are using it every day, going, hey, you know, I really like it, but can you do this to it? You know?

Right. Yeah. And it's, it's fun because the ideas come from the people who are using the products day to day, not the technical experts. Right. The idea of how do I make this thing do what I want it to do faster, quicker, better, comes from talking to people using the products every day.

Yeah.

We have a discipline that we added to Schumacher Electric in the last two years and that's product management. So you know, these folks are really responsible for thinking about the next two or three years and how to bring innovation to the market that might exist in another market like our EV charging. So you know, everyone, when you think of EV charging, you think about the big, the big fast chargers at Starbucks and the side of the highway and the, there's, there's not enough of them. So everybody has rang range anxiety. We took a lot of that technology and capability and brought it into your garage or your shop. That's where I think a lot of our innovation comes from, is taking something that's out there and making it affordable and something we can mass produce.

Yeah, yeah. Do you, do you own an ev?

Right now I do. Well, at least I wasn't sure if I was going to like it or not. So I leased is so much fun to drive. I, I mean just to be able to, I have an easy drive. It's you know, 30 minutes along the highway and some traffic and it's so much fun to be on the highway and be able to step on it and give it a little bit extra.

Right.

Get out in front of somebody. So I, I enjoy driving electric cars.

Yeah, the performance is amazing. I, my former, one of my former employers bought a Tesla Y and I remember riding in that for the first time and it absolutely just like, I mean, and I've, I've driven all the sports cars and the performance cars and stuff like that and that initial, you know, off the line acceleration, there's nothing like it in the world.

So I, again, I'm cheap. So I've never really spent money on a good sports car or anything that, you know, very high performance. I've never had that, you know, for myself. And I'm also old, right. So I also now I like quiet so I don't really need it to be loud.

I'm the same way. Like, and that's the thing, like I used to think when I was 18, you know, the louder the pipes on a car or something like that, the cooler it was. And now I, I hear a bike rving up or a car and I'm just like, oh God, what a kid. You know, it's, it's, it's funny, right? We used to love that. Then you see the old timers at the drags that are still like, you know, you got the ear cans on and everything and they're still going down and it's like, but you, you talk to them and it's the same as talking to me. It's like, what? Huh? So, yeah, I what. So going back to the performance question, what, what do you kind of see with people when they come to you and say, I need the, I need this to do this? What are they asking for? Faster. Is it just faster times faster? They need the battery charged up faster.

They need it like. Yeah.

I think a recent example that we just brought to market is answers that specific question. And that was in the U.S. the Department of Energy made a change, let's say five or six years ago, and the products had to be able to control like charging couldn't be manual anymore. We had to control it so that you knew exactly when there was power being output and so on and so forth. So people want in a wheelcharger or in a high amperage charger, you want to have a manual capability so that you could set the time, you know, somebody's coming in to pick up the vehicle. And you only got 90 minutes. So you want to set it for 90 minutes and give everybody a good charge and a fresh battery. And the products weren't able to do that after the Department of Energy change.

So the idea was, I want more control. But we couldn't give more control like in the old days. So then we had to figure out a modern way or innovative way to do an old school application. So we now have egg timers on our chargers, but they're controlled with microprocessors, not like they were in the old days.

Yeah, that and see, that's fascinating because it's the same thing. Like I, you know, I still have customers that it's like, we know some of the smart. We can all remember the older chargers where you could put them on, you know, crank it up. Some people say the nuclear, you could smell them working.

There's why.

Yeah. And you know, all that gassing is not really what everybody still wants us to be doing. And it's hard on the machine. Right. Like you guys were known for being able to build a machine that could do decades of cycles and still work. You know, that was the beauty of your machines. Now with this new way, like I've looked at some things and it's like, and then AGMs too, that have are becoming so common now. Like you can't just, I mean, they're a different thing.

You know, you can't just crank an old charger onto an AGM and not expect some complications. I guess we could call it, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And the next area where we're Spending time on charging is. We're seeing a lot more lithium in power sports. So we're putting a lot more capabilities to be able to charge traditional lead acid and AGM or lithium so that we, you know, it doesn't matter what type of battery you have, you want to be able to use the same tool.

Yeah. What's, what's the most exciting thing that you're seeing coming, coming down? Like, what's, what is it when you, when your people are coming to you going, mickey, we've got this, we've got this. What's the most thing that you get really excited about?

I, I think it's high amperage jump packs that are going to be lithium. You know, we, we've all broken our backs trying to carry big heavy lead acid jump packs. If you're just taking, either taking the wheelchair out into the, into the parking lot or carrying that thing out there. Yeah, you know, it's, it's rough. So I think being able to get a really solid jump starter for trucks and cold weather with lithium. We have it, it's out there, but I think it's going to become more prevalent over the next few years.

I can remember some of my, my days in the truck shops. I can remember wheeling them out and it was like wheeling out a wagon, which sounds great. You're like, well that's. At least it's wheeled. We had snow. A lot of trucks don't start when it snow. It's, it's like some days, yeah, it's got wheels on it, but you wish it had skis, you know, or, and I'm talking like, you know, two, three, 31 size batteries, minimum. Right.

To go and get some of these rigs started. Like it was a lot like you said, to think now that we have these. Well, like the one you sent me, it'll, it'll crank up a diesel truck. Like that's incredible that I have this much power that I can go crank up a power stroke in, in something that's the size of my sandwich. Like that's just, you know.

Yeah. And we're, we're seeing, you know, you, you still have to be a little careful right now because there's some toys out on the market. They're, there's some, there's some really major websites that sell products that aren't really regulated.

Yeah.

And when, when you see labels, I, I guess my advice would be trust, trust the brands you trust. And I'm not saying it's just Schumacher Electric, but others, because there's A lot of exaggeration of what these things can do. So, you know, trust credible brands.

I see them like, you know, the, the tick tock we were talking about tick tock and all this kind of. You can see some people showing off some. Oh, this little booster pack will do this. Ah, I'm like, it was how much? How many dollars? Yeah, yeah, it might start one car one time, but I don't think it's, it's not something in Canada that I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust. So.

No. And, and you. The cost of screwing around with that is too high. Right. You may pay, you may save 10, 20 bucks.

Yeah.

But you're gonna have frustration and you're gonna lose that money the first time you try to do something that doesn't.

Happen for you or you may not even notice. You might. If their circuitry is not built well, you may end up putting 20 volts into a car. You know what I mean? Like, and all that could always happen. Not really. Like, you know, not the way that it can now with some of the way these things are being built. How far back do you guys are you still supporting some of your products? Like somebody calls you up and they've still got like a 50 year old.

Battery charger.

Like, is it.

I wish we were doing this on video because I could show you some of the old ones that I've got here in the office. So we, we constantly get tech calls from people who are, you know, my, let's say my father's age, who've been using it in their barn for 20, 30 years. And they're like, hey, I need a new, you know, clamp. I wrote, drove it over and busted the thing.

Right.

Help me out or whatever. So, you know, it, it's really fun to talk to people who have been using product for 20, 30 years now. Of course, you know, because we got to pay our bills, it's always fun to be able to sell them a new one.

Yeah.

And you know, we talk about like, the benefits. There are things that you'd want a new one for. But, you know, once these things are built to survive, right. So they're safe, they're durable, and they're not toys, so they last a long time.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I can remember, God, it was back in the 90s. I remember seeing an ad that Schumacher did, and it was like a battery charger from like 1912. And I know that we're talking about like your prior to your days within the company, but I can remember Seeing that, like they said all it took was like some paint or whatever and a new, like you said, some new cables on the back or something and it worked and it still worked. And we're talking like in the 90s, so that's impressive, man. That's, that, that is really, really cool. You know that.

And that's, you know, as times change, we can't continue to make products at the same cost that we used to.

Yes. Right.

People still only, you know, only want to pay so much, so we' technology to find better ways to give higher performance at a lower cost. So, you know, the products may not feel like they used to in the old days because they had a big metal case and they were heavy, but it doesn't mean that they're not performing like they used to.

Right. So I gotta ask them because sometimes we talk about, in this industry and I mean there's, it's kind of two sides of the opinions, but some people say there's like planned obsolescence going on and then other people say it's not so much planned obsolescence as it's just like we're realizing there's not necessarily a whole lot of sense in building something that's going to last 30 years because the customer probably won't still own it. Where are you on the fence about that?

Like, we want the compliance standards keep changing and evolving, so we think it would be almost irresponsible to have a product that lasts forever because for whatever the standards are going to be in 15, 10 years, we'd want people using products that are compliant to the new standards.

Yeah.

So we, you know, we don't see people, you know, that's not a benefit to everybody. You, you want whatever the new safest lessons learned from the past into your current products. But it's not necessarily planned obsolescence either in that we, we don't, in some cases we don't know how long the products are going to last.

Right.

So we, we design it to make, you know, a certain service level and cycle time and so on and so forth, but they generally go much longer. We just never test it to the till it's end. So, you know, they go and go. We, we can guarantee how far they go, but we don't know how far further they can go.

Right. Yeah. And climate environment plays such a difference, you know, in, in, in how people like, it's how you've seen it with, with Power Sports. Right. One people, one particular operator maybe take really good care of their stuff and then the Other guys throw it in the back of the pickup truck and they go, hey, three years later, like this thing's not, you know, or the other guy is maintaining it, cleaning it up, hanging it up. You know, they're not, I don't want to say treating it like a tool, but. Because that's what it is. We all do.

But I'm R D is a big deal. Like, is that, is that kind of. When I, when I want to ask a company like that, is it like the biggest expense in, in developing new or is it kind of like I.

Would break it down into two ways? So the, the biggest, the most amount of money we spend is the materials that go into our products. All right. And then people is our second highest level of spending when it's not actually the cost of the actual products. R D is by far our biggest area of expense. So we are consist or constantly putting out new products. We're, we're spending money on new innovation. We spend more on R D than we do in marketing. I think the products speak for themselves.

You know, the user group for battery chargers and jump starters is relatively small community. Right. So we think word of mouth is more important than, you know, sizzle. Right. So we want to make sure the products are come. Are designed and new that are performing, but also day to day. Right. Our quality control processes and our labs and our testing facilities are pretty extensive.

Yeah. That's all cool, man. It's so, it's, it's fascinating to me, you know, because I'm so used to talking with people are, you know, mom and pop type businesses. Right. So when I, when I get into something like this is a massive corporation, it's. It always. There's so many questions that are always pop into my head all the time. Yeah.

Well, and, and what's fun for me is that we have over a thousand employees globally.

Yeah.

And the things that work for Schumacher Electric are the same things that work in a, in a shop of five. Five to. Right. You gotta be on the same page with everybody.

Yeah.

You know, you have to say, okay, this is how we're going to be successful. And whether, you know, some places are more focused on the front desk and, you know, making sure they're facing the consumer. Right. And they're doing high volume or there could be like a high technology and, you know, it's all about complicated work.

Yeah.

Maybe less on the, on the front desk or the parts counter.

And what I loved when you and I sat down is there were so many things I could see your Eyes getting wide when I was telling you so many different stories of what's happened in like my background as a technician and you know, what, what the techs face like you didn't, I don't want to say you didn't know, but it was like there was, there was some wow. I didn't realize that you guys actually, you know, went through that kind of thing. Right. Like it's, it's so fascinating to me. It's just being able to share that my reality, you know, and so many of the other tech in a Bayes reality to what the consumer out there might not even know about. Right.

What I also took away from that was there's a big disconnect in what whomever's funding the shop or whoever's, you know, living day to day on the winning or losing of the shop. And a lot of the people doing the work, like it almost seemed like how the shop makes money is thought of as different. And you know, even in our business, everyone has to think about, you know, how are we going to be successful?

Yeah.

Has to be the same whether you're in a factory in, you know, one in Mexico or you're in a distribution center in Europe.

Yeah. And, and, and I think in, in my industry, it comes from the fact that we, we all start, a lot of us anyway start as a technician and then it becomes really. We get good at it. We get a knack. You know, maybe we don't specialize in particular car brand or your dad's like, oh, he was my guy for, you know, a transmission overhaul or something like that back in the day in a neighborhood. I think some of these established shops have been around for so long. We didn't, we didn't get in the idea in our head of growth, of we only worked on survival. And I think that that's hurt a lot of people in the sense that all of a sudden now there's a reluctance to adapt, there's a reluctance to, you know, technology.

There's a reluctance to changing the way the business has to be done because we get so fast to where we just find our little niche and then we don't grow. And I think that that's been the biggest thing is sometimes we look at what the new technology is and I. They hate to hear it from me, but it's like the tech moves so fast and oftentimes the young person that's working for someone, by all intents and purposes is just better. You know what I mean? It's. They're more versed in a certain particular thing. And it's like, yes, you know, if that car comes in and it's 30 years old, you know, the. The older gentleman in the back will be the man to do it or woman to do it. But most of this young stuff, this new stuff coming in, it's the young people that are familiar with today's modern technology that are going to be awesome at fixing it.

It's just a reality. But I think there's that reluctance to go, oh, my God, I can't, like, I can't pay them that or treat them like that, or I can't accept that they're, you know, the millennials, because. And the reality is it doesn't really matter because we're talking. We're not talking about, like, apples to apples here. We're talking about, like, a generational thing of which is this is how they work. This is how they, you know, this is the personnel challenge of what it is. And I think that that's limiting our growth right now is how we're thinking about how to actually go forward in this industry. I think we're always, like, reluctant to hold on to what used to be, and that's just foolish to me.

Yeah. I don't think that's unique, though, to the industry, though. You see that in a lot of places. Right. So I talked about my dad earlier when I was in high school, he lost his job, and it, like, it stunted, you know, the growth and development of our family. Right. There were things we couldn't do. My sister and brother didn't have the opportunities that I had because I was a little bit older.

And it. At the time, you know, we always blame. When we're younger, we don't appreciate our parents as much as we do when we're older. But at the time, you know, I kind of blamed him because he was doing things the way he had been doing them 15 years earlier.

Right.

The world changed and he became less competitive.

Right.

You know, so I. There's. There's a lot of folks I interact with here at Schumacher and other places where they feel like they should be rewarded for their longevity. Yet that's, you know, picture any sports team, you know, it's. It's who. Who's bringing in, you know, who's. Who's scoring the points is going to be rewarded, not who's been on the team the longest. So, ye.

For me, one of the personal objectives I have is setting aside enough time and creating opportunities for those of us who've been around A long time to keep learning new things. For us, specifically, it's AI, right? When you see AI in the news and you read it online or whatever, you're like, okay, I get it, but how do I use it in my personal job? Well, these kids who are starting school this year and in four years are going to come out of school and be able to be using AI for whatever jobs they're in so that they're going to be more competitive. Right. So I've got to make sure everybody here at Schumacher Electric is focused on developing or actually the company becomes less competitive, not just the people.

Good point. Going back to the sports analogy, we talk about that a lot. And, you know, I'll reference hockey. I can think about like a player like Mario Lemieux, who played for the Penguins forever, who eventually Mario got older and, you know, Mario couldn't play, but he went from being captain and to coach, you know what I mean? Of the team. So that's. There's so many things where it's like in our industry, yet we don't seem to adopt that where. And I don't. Maybe it's the way some of us are wired, where it's just like, we weren't necessarily people, people, you know, technicians and, oh, I don't want to talk to the customers or something like that, that I don't necessarily think that the senior technicians need to be talking to a pile of customers, but there's some leadership value there that they should really.

I think we're still, as an industry, we're not. We're not capitalizing on the way we should in terms of being able to show them that it's like they can nurture and mentor next generation into the culture of what we're trying to do. I don't know where. I don't know where the wheels always fall off on that. I don't know if it's because.

Do you think it has to do with, like, the size of the shops? Like, if you're in a big organization, you could have some of the.

I was just gonna say yeah, because traditionally, traditionally I look at a dealership, which are still, for the most part, the larger shops, right. And they might have a guy. The service manager that I worked for, he had started there as a technician, right? Worked technician, foreman, became service manager. He was there 30 years. When we see an independent shop of a little bit smaller size, if we see that long person, that person that's been there oftentimes 20 plus years, they're probably either like part owner of the business, right? They were the person started the business or the worst case is like they are, have become people that we failed to bring up. And so they've always, we've kept them in a role, but we didn't bring them up to that level of okay, what are we going to do with them when they just hurt too much to be able to do the job? How do we, you know, the grumpy old mechanic is a, is a very real thing. You know, they're just not set up well to be nurturing and, and whereas you see in the dealership where it's like this is what we know our methods are supposed to be. He might be grumpy and he might have, you know, a little rough around the edges, but he is well versed in how it has always been done and how it needs to be done.

And they continue to keep that going. The traditions, it has become so familiar. Familiar feeling is what I'm trying to say, right? Is in the independent shops, the smaller sizes, they might have a guy that's been there 15 years and then all of a sudden they just get rid of them one day. I mean, a new manager comes in and there's a, there's a butt heads and gone 15 years. It's brutal.

And it's a fail on who's ever running that shop or whoever owns it in that you've got to care about the people who are coming to work every day. You got to make sure they're staying safe. You're giving them the equipment so that they stay safe. You got to train them and you got to make sure that they stay competitive. You know, I see so many friends of mine who, who have become that grumpy and you know, they, they think there's loyalty with the shop owner, but the shop owner hasn't been doing them any favors, right? No, they've got a. It's the individual's responsibility to grow and develop, like you said. But the shop leader has to provide those opportunities.

And the thing is, what we forget in our industry, what happens so much is sometimes that long established person, when they leave, they take your clientele with you, with them. Excuse me? You know what I mean? Like, don't even think about that. How many times that happens. And it's so common in my industry. But you know, large, large companies, it doesn't happen that way. Like I know what the dealerships like when, when a shop foreman left or service manager left, if they were, if they were set on that brand, they didn't necessarily Go buy another brand because they wanted to deal with that guy. It did happen, but it wasn't like a huge thing. Whereas when you talk in independent shops, if you've got a guy that has always been there and has always worked on Mrs.

Smith's car and for whatever reason he goes to your competitor, don't be surprised. We don't see Mrs. Smith anymore. Because if you've allowed, if he's built that reputation up, that familiarity with Mrs. Smith and her vehicle, she is going to feel very, very comfortable with him, regardless of where he is. They follow us.

Yeah, yeah. I, I wonder how much there should be in terms of the, the tax and the guys owning or operating the shop should be talking about two or three years into the future of the shop. It almost seems like, you know, back to what we were talking about with we don't know how money's actually being made in the shop. The guy who owns it probably doesn't know how he's making money. He's probably got a couple good techs who are overachieving and then a couple who are underachieving, but probably measuring them the wrong way.

Yeah.

Doesn't really know and then isn't thinking about, well, how do I keep this person.

Current? Yeah, well. And that's it. You know, there's so much of this that goes down to, and I, I talked it before. I think I talked when you sat with you. Some technicians just have knacks of being able to, like I, I, I talk about all the time. If I take a carburetor part and throw all the pieces in a bucket, I need a manual on how to put it back together. And then I've worked with guys that could like throw it all in the bucket. They didn't mean a manual.

They could remember a week later the sequence of how that thing went together. Not all good mechanics have that knack.

Right.

We all have. Some of us have different methods of how we, we get to the end result. I've seen so many times when it's like they, like you said, we have some really top performers and then we have some people down in the middle and all that kind of stuff. And, and shop owners are terrible. Regardless of what the eye they say. They look at the average, they look at the number, they get the collective at the end. And then sometimes what happens is that little difference of that tech that feels like they were not, they're never going to be able to get to the top. They feel like that because they feel like there's an obstacle in their way or they feel like they weren't recognized because they weren't.

And then they go somewhere else and all of a sudden is they're a superstar. Like they're a rock star somewhere else. I've been that tech, you know, I've also been that. That rock star, that left and small fish in a big pond all over again. Right. Like it just. We, we don't oftentimes look at the individual. We look too much at the, the core group, the team results.

You know, Wayne Gretzky got to know how many cups, right. And it was because he could score a ton of goals, but it was still the team that got him there. You know what I mean? And that's where I think in this.

Industry he was pretty good at passing as well.

Fantastic. You know, Messier scored a bunch of goals too, thanks to Wayne. You know, we forget that too much as we in our industry we look and we have a superstar and we look at our collective numbers and I think that we have to get away from that a little bit and we have to look at everybody as like an absolute key element to the team, you know, not just so.

And manage. Manage everybody like where they are. Not manage everybody the same way.

Right. Yeah. Huge.

Because the grump, the grumpy old mechanic may actually could become really more productive if you manage them whatever or her needs are right. Not don't treat them like a 25 year old who's never worked before because that's probably the fastest way to get somebody to go into neutral.

Yeah. If he's the type that if he spills a little bit oil and he doesn't immediately throw a rag on it, but he gets everything else is like, don't like that's the process. We need rags put on the spills. He knows. He knows or she knows. It's just they're, they're. What makes them them is it's not the priority thing to do right now. Right.

I'm focused on I got to get that bolt in and I got it. They're 10. 10 million. I used to like freak out and I still do. When I'd be in the middle of something and somebody could walk up to me and it's funny. Another tech can walk up to you and they know what you're in the middle of doing and they don't say anything, they're behind you. Other people blurt right in and go, hey, do you remember about Mrs. Smith's car? And, and, and you're in the middle of trying to do Something that is dire, and you stop your.

Shut your brain off for a minute and go talk to the service writer about What? What, what? Mrs. Smith's car? Because she's on the phone and she's asking, guess what? That's how you forget to. You know, you go and put a transfer case in, and you forget to plug a connector in. Or. You know how some. That's how that stuff happens is. Is timing and not respecting that person's, like, where they are in their job, you know, I guess that's interesting.

Yeah. It's being aware of that. And, you know, in multitasking is not. I. Maybe other people can multitask, but I can't.

You're not. Well, you're not good at that.

Yeah. And you're gonna skip something.

I see. I think as a technician, you have to be able to. I think it's just a. Like, there's so many things I think, even, like the way I. Like, when I'm cooking, I'm cleaning at the same time. You know what I mean? Like, it's nothing for me. Like, I don't have a dishwasher. I'll have a sink of dishes and be cooking a meal at the same time.

Because it's like, it's just part of me. I don't want to have it all that mess at the end. So I'm going as I go. Every technician I know is great at multitasking, but there's certain key points where it's. I'm torquing a cylinder head on. Don't bother me, right? Because I'm going through my process of I have to do this bolt and then this bolt. Then I have to put a paint mark on. So I know that it was done.

Because we all have. You know, we all have horror stories of. It's like, I forgot to do this because I was in the middle of it. And then somebody said, hey, you got to go do this thing. Or I worked at a shop where it was like, it did not matter. You could be doing in the middle of anything, and if it was 12 noon, it was immediately like, throw your tool. Throw your tools down and go take lunch. Because if you come back at 10 after 1, I might have a waiter, and that waiter's been waiting 10 minutes, and you're not able to go on the job.

Meanwhile, it's like. So you're in the middle of. Like, you were four bolts away from torquing ahead, and somebody says, hey, get out of here and take lunch. You gotta let your people be Flexible, I think Mickey, you know what I mean?

We're, we're trusting, we're trusting everybody to do a good job. We should trust them with those kinds of things.

Yeah, they're not, they're not kids. I mean they don't need to be told. And again, you know, a lot of technicians are known for like we, we punch in in the morning and we work through all day. You know, we might have a, I'm not advocating for smokes but like they go and have a cigarette break. But a lot of us, we don't, we don't take lunch or some days we're gone like a 90 minute lunch instead of a 60 minute lunch. If you have people that are kind of like, and I don't know the personality types, but they're like, they're not regimented to a certain schedule, but they can get the job done. Let them flow, man. Because they're, I can tell you that their brain works at a different thing where it's like some days they need 80 minutes to recover right from lunch to get back at it.

Some days they don't want to take lunch and they just want to go right through.

I think that's where back to what you're talking about, not managing to the average. If you know how individuals are performing.

Yeah.

You can't earn that. Right. Right. But if you're, if you're the screwball coming in late all the time and doing that, then it's a different story. But you know, you could also win new customers that way and create raving fans. Right. If something comes in late in the day and it becomes an emergence need, you know, most guys will sit there and do the work or stay there and do the work. Right.

Those are, you can't forget those moments because that create, that earns you freedom, I think.

Yeah. Now I gotta ask you, coming up then, what are some of your more challenging co workers or challenging scenarios or give us some examples of that coming up through like, you know.

Well, yeah, I'm like, well, I gotta tell you about this guy. I think a lot of it has to do with working in different, different parts of the organization. Right. So every, you know, we, we talk about teams and it's the same thing in a shop. You know, we're all working for the customer and everyone has to do their part for everything to go well. So a lot of it has to do with just working well with others. I mean, I, it's not so much like, hey, you got to teach people how to work well. It's just you got to create the environment for people to be able to do it, and you got to create the measurement, you know, back to what you're talking about.

Managing to the average. You know, working well with others should be something you measure. Right. You can't just be technically solid or you can't just go. You know, we've got really, really good, strong salespeople. And if they're out there killing it in sales, but stepping on the throats of everybody else in the company, well, they're not really helping the team win. So that's probably the one area where I spend more time than I would have expected is making sure different parts of the organization are working well with each other.

Do you think so? And some people, and I'm always on the fence about that too. Attitude, does it trump aptitude?

That's a good one. I. I would say to. To a point, it does. There. There are you. You can't. It's like the price of poker, right? You can't show up to the poker table without the aptitude.

Yeah.

But at some point it'll limit how far you can go and how much you can win if you don't have the right attitude.

Right. Because I think aptitude sometimes is talent and sometimes I think we just need. I've told lots of shop owners in my talkings to them online and offline, sometimes there's just some. There's a level of talent there that you need. And part of your biggest challenge every day might be getting past their attitude. You know what I mean? But you need that ability that they bring to the team to be able to get it done. There's been some superstar athletes that are just been absolute jerks. And I'm not trying to say defend that, that.

But they're just quirky people. You know what I mean? What makes them so good, whether they're on the spectrum in some way or something like that, is it's. And then as you. As a leader, it falls on you to understand how to navigate those people. Right. Like, I don't want to work for the best mechanic I've ever met in my life. Now, it helps when they've been a mechanic and been a good one that I should respect because I feel like they relate better to me. But I don't need you to be the best mechanic to tell me to go out there and fix the car.

I need you to be the best person that you can be as a leader to understand when I'm having an off day why I might Be having that off day and how to steer me back from that self destructive path that I can go down.

Yeah. A good coach. It's a good coach. Yes. When you were talking about that, I was thinking about Phil Jackson and all the characters he had with the Bulls. Right. I mean, some of the best talent and some of the quirkiest talent.

Dennis Rodman. Right. As an example or, or someone don't.

Get much quirkier than that.

Right. But if you can make that guy play with a guy like Jordan or, you know, a talent of that, and I'm not a huge basketball fan.

You'd have some rings. Yeah. Yes.

You know, but you're going to also have some. Two guys in the locker room that probably didn't think very much of each other or felt one wasn't as good as what everybody said. You know what I mean?

Yeah. However, if that quirky person is toxic and people aren't coming to work because they can't work with that person, you got to address that.

Yeah, I was just gonna, we were just gonna go down that road because that's the same thing. Like there's so many times I've been called toxic. There's been so many times that it's been like I've seen. And again, jaded, yes.

But not toxic.

No. I've been considered some people's. All your toxic attitude. No, but I think there's always like the. Everything that we get into just has a certain place that it's going to go. And then I don't know whether I say as a technician, as your skills increase, you outgrow a job or if you stop and the job outgrows you. I don't know what really becomes the case, but I know that I've talked to a lot of people that have been labeled as, you know, toxic technicians in a shop. They either probably weren't brought up to be like, okay, continuing to grow, go back to what growth? Or it was like they, they settled into their one little corner and said, this is all I do.

This is what I do well. And I to be left alone. Don't bother me. And we just said, okay, that's what we're going to have to do. At some point. That person doesn't become a key fit anymore. You know what I mean? They really don't because they just slow down. That's part of it, or whatever.

We're working on changes to the thing and what used to make you really valuable going back to like 1970 is not so valuable in 1980. And it's almost irrelevant in 1990. Right. So. And, and I think with. Now with the tech that's going on, we're gonna see it where it's like a guy that's super good at, you know, overhauling a combustion engine. 10 more years. If it's all EV, what.

What are you going to do? You know?

And it's a balance. Right. It's. What's one of those things where even with us and Schumacher Electric at a time, people were thinking we would be out of business by now because everything was going to be evolving, you know. Well, you know, There was an Internet.com bubble long, long ago, but it's still a relevant thing. You know, I think we're pretty. Pretty proficient now with doing this podcast online and so forth.

Yeah.

So it's, It's. We just got to evolve. We just can't get too far, like, one direction or the other too fast.

Yeah. Because I'm sure, like, there's probably people bigger in the EV market than you guys, obviously. Obviously. Oh, for sure. But I mean, it's like. I think it's just something that it's like, like you can. You can offer a product with such an established name that people are going to be like, wow, I didn't know. And that's definitely something to now consider because grandpa had a box 50, you know, years ago.

Literally how that works. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that's cool. Cool as hell. And I mean, I think it's. It's so neat. You know, we go back to these. We're seeing so many of these name brands that are, you know, when we start to look into the inner workings of them are not. Not.

I don't want to wave the flag for America because I'm not one, but I mean, you see how it's come where it's like the name is only the name, and it doesn't hold what it used to hold, I guess from a culture or a reputation or something like that. What's going forward? What do you guys. Do you see that becoming a tough obstacle or do you kind of feel like you're in place, that it's always going to be.

It's exactly what you talked about with the grumpy mechanic. You know, there's a lot of brands who were successful and they think they're always going to be successful by doing what they were doing.

Yeah.

And. And the world's going to disrupt and. And come drive right over them. And I think there's other brands that they're. They've been Good. Because they keep competing, trying to be the best.

Yeah.

You know, and it's, it's no different than our personal development. Right. If. If you keep trying to be the best, you'll. You'll never be the best, but you'll always be good enough to be pretty dang good.

You'll always be in the mentionables for sure. You know what I mean? Because again, it's my, My background. Athletic is, is, is, is wrestling. Like, I was, I was never big on team sports. I wrestled in school, so I can remember so many of the coaching. Dan Gable, especially, going like he said that, you know, attitude trump talent every day. Right. Initiative and fight and dogged determination trumps talent every day.

I worked with lots of mechanics that were more talented than me, but, man, I caught up to them because I just wouldn't. Wouldn't let it go.

Yeah. And they're probably out of the business at this point because some of them.

Yeah, yeah. As crazy as it is, it's. This is such a fascinating industry to me because it's like I've talked to. In the last couple weeks, some people have come from my, My past of. Because Christmas time you get to re. Reconnect and all that kind of stuff. And it's like you hear about. For instance, like, I heard about a manager that I had worked for quit because I could not, Couldn't tolerate the gentleman.

And it took 14 years, but he finally got fired. And I mean, and I.

A lot of the same issues you probably had with him.

Yeah, I felt bad because, like 14 years, but at the same time, I'm like, you know, I celebrated a little bit and I was like, is that really the right thing to do now as a mature, you know, do you celebrate that? But it's like, karma is a very real thing. And I mean, at the same time, what my. I couldn't respect him because he went from being exactly like me to all of a sudden a person in management who's like, don't do what I did. And it's like, whoa, wait a second.

Now we see that in our production facilities, the people who have become supervisors, you either become a great supervisor because you want to learn how to be a good supervisor, or you want to get back on the guys that were crappy to you. Right? So now all of a sudden they're. They're stepping down on people and you're like, wait a minute.

That.

That's what you didn't like and that.

And that's not leadership. You know what I mean? Like, all of a sudden, being put in that role, sometimes just because of the seniority. You got the role because of seniority doesn't make you the best leader. You know, the person that necessarily has been there the longest isn't necessarily the best to, to steer it going forward. Right. But it was, yeah, it was a situation of I could not, I couldn't just forget all the things that I had watched him do as a, as a technician that all of a sudden excuse it, like we were supposed to forget that. That was, he was a manager, and I, I felt bad to hear, but at the same time, I'm like, good. He had that coming because he was always it.

The thing that never changed about him is he was always the type that he would throw somebody else under the bus to save his own butt.

Nah. Yeah, it catches up to you.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's just the way it is. You know, I, I, I hate to see that for people, but he's not a young man. I mean, he's probably been smart with his money and he'll find something else to do, but, you know, this is.

A part of being jaded. Are you trying, you know, it's like, it's a, it's an honor now to be jaded. Right. But are you trying to, like, help shop owners and managers see the need for leadership development, or are there resources that you kind of can point to people because they make it rough on the people in the shop. Right. If they're bad leaders, well, so.

And it's not even. I see. That's a, that's a whole thing. We can thank Jocko for that. Right. Because leadership became such a buzzword. Leader, leader, leader. But what it is, is now, as I advocate for so much more, there's been people that were just like me that started a shop and thank God, for whatever divine reason, I didn't start one.

Although maybe I should have, because I know now that I would have gone down the same path of dysfunction that. So in you want to change industry for the better, you can't necessarily, because I was the best technician that I've ever seen in some days that I should have opened the shop. What it should have been is understanding that, okay, so you were a really good mechanic and you started a shop, but you were terrible at business in terms of understanding, necessarily. We talked about emotional discounting, where it's like, I feel too sorry, so I don't charge.

Yeah, I don't want to charge somebody more money. It's, it's too expensive. For them.

So what happens now, Mickey, all the time is I'm advocating for more what you think your successful business. But go get a coach. Go get a coach. Just like we talk about now some of these top star athletes that go and get a psychologist as part of their coaching crew.

Yeah.

It's like you have to understand business wise, what you really don't know. You think you know, but you really don't know. And you have to immerse yourself with other people that have been more successful than you and done it a different way. And go, you can do this too. That's. It's not so much about me trying to say, hey, you need leadership, but you have to get it out of your own head that I am the number one greatest thing ever. And you have to go get yourself a coach and he will open up that can of worms and show you what you're doing wrong. And then that brings about your culture and your business becomes better to where your people want to come to work for you because they would rather work for you than anyone else.

Not just about the money, but the culture of it. Right?

Yeah. And that's no different for me. Right. I've had some really good mentors and some people I've worked side by side with that you learn good or bad. Right. You're always learning from somebody else. And you know, fortunately, other people cared about me and my career and, you know, what it would take to, you know, I wouldn't have this job if it wasn't for that coaching. And I think what you're talking about is, is, you know, how do you create a community to provide that coaching and that mentorship and leadership because we're all better off when.

When everybody's doing well.

Yeah. I, I think how we get. And then you didn't really post it as a question, but I think the biggest obstacle I see a lot of the time is, is it comes back to money. A lot of technicians, I think, are still feel like they're not compensated well for the amount of work that they do and that. And that's true. And it's even. We're in a tough time right now. But I think it's.

It's been the incentivized pay that we've all chased for so long that I really think has to go away so that we all can walk in day to day as a member of a team.

Right.

Going back to the thing, nobody ever expected to get paid as much as Jordan. Right. But at the same time, it's like we shouldn't be paying them pennies on the dollar of what he started out getting paid. They. Because there's still a support staff. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Actually, you're funny. You mentioned that. There's a ESPN show about Pippin and how he kept getting underrated and underpaid, but he kept, he stayed in there and finally got his payday. But it's an issue no matter what team you're on.

Yeah. And like going back to my thing, like, I look at the martial artists and it's like we always talk in combat sports about the little guys never get paid the same as the heavyweight. Right. And that's how I kind of equate to, to technicians in the shop is they've always got this bigger established guy that's been there forever and they pay him this or they, they funnel the work towards him. So he makes this and then the younger person that comes in is like, well, you have to get there one day. He might, that littler person knew might be more skilled than that guy ever even thought about. But it's that, that seniority role or that you got to put your time in. I'm not saying that people don't need to put their time in, but I think too many technicians walked away from this industry or in other skilled trades, period.

Walk away from it. Because being told you got to put your time in when they know how talented they are.

Yeah, no, that feels like old school thinking. Right. There isn't anybody coming out of a, any technical program that feels like they want to wait and have patience. Right. They put a lot of money on the table. They put a lot of energy into getting trained, trained up. You know, you're gonna, you want to.

Get paid what you're worth and, and unfortunately, you know, with more and more, you can't just start it like your dad, like you did working with your father and then, and then have a run at this. I, I hate to say it, but I think more and more technicians, like if we're going to be getting them, we're going to get, getting them out of a college program or a trade school program or something like that. That's a huge chunk of money that they've now laid down and invested to.

Be able to start talking about tools and everything else. Like you're, you're in for a lot of money and you know, you want to have a lifestyle right outside of work. You don't want to be working 100 hours a week.

So you, you go in maybe a hawk for six Figures for, you know, your education, just to get your foot in the door. And then the first thing we always did forever in this industry was like, oh, I don't care if you've got that, you know, you got to put your dues in. You got to pay your time, you know, and then. And then the tool thing. Now, what I love, Mickey, what I see is I see more and more shop owners that it's like they're celebrating. You know, I bought my technician a toolbox, you know, or I bought my technician, like, tools over Christmas, or, you know, I gave them, you know, a 500 tool truck bonus. Like a. Oh, cool.

I love that. I love that because it's showing that. It's like, I mean, I've worked with techs that didn't want to invest in themselves, so giving them 500 didn't go back into their toolbox bucks, you know what I mean? Like, it went to wherever it went. Yeah, A good time. Whereas if I give them 500 bucks to spend on the tool truck, I know that that tool, that's where they're going to spend it. They're going to get tools, hopefully. So I like that, and I like the fact that we're starting to. What we used to think is like, I'm not going to provide tools for them, or if they borrow it more than three times, you know, they got to buy it.

We're starting to get away from that mentality where it's like, hey, this stuff is really expensive. Expensive. We're not able to pay them a ton starting out just because of the way the numbers break down. So let's help them out a little bit more than when. When I came up, you know, I. I tell everybody all the time in my life, I've never owned a new car yet because I'm always like, if I was to get a new car, the payment on the new car, I would have never had any money left over for what I spent monthly on tools. It was nothing. To spend a car payment a month on tooling, not nothing easily.

And so now, whereas the young people I know, it's like they all have newer cars. Well, there's not a whole lot of money left over necessarily to buy tooling. Does that mean that I immediately say, no young people? Am I hiring because they have no money for tools? No, I have no choice. I have to hire young people. What do I do? I, me, the leader, the shop owner, I invested some tools and I say, here you go, here's a toolkit. It, you know, if you spend three years, five or five years, whatever the number might be, you keep it, it's yours. Done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. But it's keep evolving. Right. The tool program from 15 years ago doesn't work today. You just got. It has to keep changing and really there's no perfect way to do anything. So you keep testing and learning and trying new programs.

You're like, hey, that worked. Let's do more of that.

And.

But you got to keep trying new things.

Yeah. So going forward because I don't want to keep you all day. What's. What are you guys hoping for at Schumacher to see, to do, to develop. I mean, don't, I mean obviously the EV thing is going to continue to get bigger and you know, you've, you guys have got your. But where do you, where do you get excited about when you look coming forward products.

Well in the US the right to repair. Right. That's a big one. So we definitely, we see that coming and I think we're up. We're think. I think we'll be good there. What I maybe not concerned about what I am. We didn't talk too much about is new people coming into the business.

Right. So we see there's going to be a lot of retirement and not enough people coming into the business. So it's kind of a concern. Something we're trying to work with tech schools and trying to bring more chargers and jump starters to those to support them industry and trend wise. I, we're excited about the efficiency of products being able to do more with less cost or less battery power. It just seems like the technology keeps getting better and better. So we're kind of geeking out on, you know, technology, particularly around jump starting.

Right, right. Yeah. And going more and more. You see more and more like applications for ev.

Yeah. I think it'll sort out and it'll have its place.

Right.

I don't think there's so many places where like, I just don't think it's feasible. So I think there'll be particular niches within the industry where an EV vehicle or an like a delivery van or something may make sense. A lot of talk about autonomous and for delivery and you know, taxis and so on and so forth. We'll see. I'm sure, you know, there's enough money going into it that something will happen. But we're not, we're not afraid of the status quo either.

Right.

A lot of opportunities in the way things are today.

Yeah. And I mean we're still so far behind I think from where the grid has to be in order to really support everything, all of a sudden going forward that it's like, I wouldn't take all my. Put all my eggs in the basket at the ev thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's going to be a balance, I think. And, you know, the, the technology around gas combustion is getting so good. Right. So, you know, we got to remember what our objective was. Right. Is like, okay, let's, let's have clean, clean exhaust and, you know, better kilometers per. Per liter.

I think if I did that right in Canada.

Yeah, you did. Yeah.

But, you know, there's good technology with gas combustion, so let's don't give up on that.

Well, I want to appreciate, I want to thank you. I really appreciate you coming on. We had a hard time kind of getting our schedule on. You are a busy guy. You really are. And, you know, when Chelsea said, do you want to. Do you want to speak to him on, on New Year's Day? And I'm like, oh, God, no, I won't make him do that. You know, so today is perfect.

And I wanted to thank you for coming on. It was, like I said, it was a highlight for me to, at SEMA to be able to sit down and have that great conversation with you guys and, you know, thank you.

It's been a blast getting to learn you, learn about you and all that, all the struggles everybody deals with. Yeah, it's another way to keep learning. Right. We keep talking to each other. We're all trying to help each other out and, you know, good things happen for good people.

And I will be sure to showcase your products anytime that I can. And you know, going forward, I mean, any. If, if you make it back to SEMA next year and I make it back, I'll be sure to drop in and say hello again because, I mean, it's, you know, I, I genuinely really enjoy your outlook and all that kind of stuff. And it was, it was so cool to, to meet somebody that was like, relatively new to, to my industry, but yet so much to still excitement to offer and, and to be able to listen and learn about, you know, what, what my reality is. And most people aren't as receptive, so it was pretty cool.

Good deal. Yeah. It's a pleasure and thank you. Appreciate the, the conversations. It's a good time.

All the best to you guys at Schumacher in 2025. And, you know, I can't wait to just meet up with everybody and have another conversation. Someday. So thank you. Everyone's good. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change.

Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the Change in the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time.

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