Jonny Lieberman | From the Hoonivault

Here we are, Hooniverse Podcast 375, Johnny Lieberman.

Johnny, welcome back.

It's August 8th, it's Friday, it's 145 Eastern Time, and I want to bring up with you what

I think is something kind of interesting in today's auto news, which is the Hurricane

powered charger.

Is there any sadder picture of a quote unquote performance vehicle ever than what this perspective

charger looks like?

Yeah, it looks like it's on like 17 inch wheels, and obviously like we don't care about our

life, silver is never good for us.

Yeah, I mean like there was no big secret, like I think I broke the news that the charger

was actually getting, I was told it could actually still fit a V8, but we also said

like it'll probably get a six cylinder quite a while ago, in fact it was such breaking

news, you know when you get a story right, if you break news when Dodge calls your bosses

and says like, they start freaking out about it.

If they ignore it then it's wrong, but if they get upset then they're demanding to

know who told me, which they're never going to know.

Well, Dodge has, there's two extremes for Dodge, there's no action in all of the action

and you know if you've spurred all of the action then you've unearthed something.

Yeah, I mean no big surprise to me, you know look in the US, EVs are struggling for a lot

of reasons and Dodge is a strange brand to electrify, especially a big muscle car thing

and the other thing was like, I didn't go on the launch, I heard from a lot of people

on the launch that the PRs were like, yeah we know this one's no good, but just wait

there's a gas one coming, which is a crazy way to launch a car and that was mentioned

in like several reviews, it was like, well they said even if you don't like it just wait

for the gas one, which is like, boy, and like, you know, I haven't driven it and I hate

comedy on cars, I haven't driven, but I did it with people that drove it that are journalists

that I respect and they were just like, yeah they didn't make a very good EV, there are

things that make EVs good and things that make EVs bad and they just didn't do a great

job with it and I've seen like, I think it's zero on the road and it's been out for like,

I've never seen one, nine months, yeah I live in EV capital of the world, the amount of,

like I dropped my kid off at summer camp this morning, I saw including the Rivian, I drove

four Rivians were at this one summer camp, two Kia EV-9s, that new Hyundai Ioniq 9,

I think it's called, oh you saw one, wow, okay, yeah it's got dealer plates on, well your EV

capital you should see one. EV capital man, and that's not even counting, I don't even,

like I've stopped noticing Tesla Model Ys because there's so many of them and that's not, you know,

and like, there's tons of EVs like, you know, IXs, so people are buying EVs, you know, out here at

least and I've seen none of these, you know, I've seen more Nissan Z Nismo's, which is one.

I was just gonna say, I have seen two Nissan Z's, the current, the modern, you know,

I've seen a few Z's but no, I saw one Nismo, I've seen zero Nismo's, I've seen two of the

non-Nismo's and, well I think, I think there's a couple things, one is that the people that are

into chargers aren't into EVs, two, no one's really into big two doors, just not anymore, not here,

well, the general public, like there's, there's obviously the Wraith and, you know,

the Continental GT like market, that's a, that's like, that's like a percent of the one percent,

but that's not, that's not people for, when you talk to people, you'll hear, I need an SUV,

oh, you're going off-roading, well no, but what if it rains, what if, like, you're on all season

tires, your hose, so, yeah, the car buying public, they're just, you know, they're not

looking for two doors, they're not looking for sporty EVs, so yeah, the six-cylinder here makes

sense, that said, even if it makes over 500 horsepower, there's a large segment of the

charger demographic that gotta have a V8, you know, even though it makes more power.

Dude, there's money, money on the hood. I care about cylinders, why? You want, you want to buy

Ram RHO, there's money on the hood because it isn't a V8 TRX. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, but, but again,

like, remember the Challenger Scat Pack or whatever, you know, the 392 with 485 horsepower,

this makes 525. It's also a lot heavier. It's more power, you know, let's go.

Number sell, that's really where it is. I don't think any individual vehicle has been as

mechanically and like lineage-ly politicized or politically affected in recent memory as the

charger because it went from, it has to be an EV to, it will absolutely not succeed as an EV,

we needed to have, you know, combustion and it's just been this like huge, they don't know what

to do with it juggling kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, it's a strange time period.

I think it says more about Stellantis than it does about the actual car. And again, I just

haven't driven one. I should get a whole to one and drive it. I'd be curious, you know,

but yeah, it's everything's politicized and, you know, Dodge had this whole like, you know,

American flag as their campaign mantra, you know, and then that weirdly has connotations now.

It's not just like all Americans. It means something more than that, sadly.

Do you remember, do you remember the Challenger ad with like, it was like George Washington?

Yeah, it was George Washington and the Brits. It's crazy. In 2025, thinking about that, it's

crazy. It was a fun ad. But again, that, you know, you're saying something about your brand when

you do that. And, you know, then you get into the fallacy of like, oh, it's more American than

this, you know, it's like one of those things like Stellantis is owned, you know, was owned by a Fiat

and Italian company. And then, you know, now it's a French company, you know, so, you know,

it's like, oh, Rivian and Tesla and Lucid, those are American car companies. Everything they make,

Tesla, you can argue, the Chinese stuff's made in China. But, you know, every Rivian and Lucid's

made in America, like that. No factories in Mexico or Canada, Stellantis or France or Italy.

So I don't know. It's a strange time, you know, politically, it's a strange time, you know,

there are countries in a weird place and high level. That's, you can just put that out there.

High level. That's high level. It's a weird time. Yeah, it's a weird time. Everything automotive,

whether it's cars that you're talking about now that won't be here for a few years because

tooling and parts and all that stuff, the companies are planning for years ahead of time.

Or, you know, so we're talking about stuff. It's 2025. You could be talking about 2028,

2029 production model cars. But at the same time, you're talking about, you know, what's

happening in California with like, you know, legality of historical vehicles and what emissions

need to or don't need to be. So yeah, if California even gets to retain that, right? I mean, the

friggin' EPA came out and said that carbon dioxide is a positive for the planet. It's kind of all

over for the next little while here, at least. So yeah, it's a weird time. It's a weird time to

be living in. God damn. You're going to get weird cars and weird decisions and weird stuff as a

result, you know? And again, like, you know, it's like, okay, you know, we're dodged. We're the

power brand. It's like, oh, here's an EV that makes a lot of power. Hate it. Here's a six cylinder

makes a lot of power. Also hate it. You know, it's like, we're orthodox. We need to have VH

for some reason. We can't create from the cylinder count. Like, okay, so you just want noise and

waste? That's what, whatever. You know, so I don't know. It's just, it's a very strange time.

Yeah, you can't quantify experience, but you can put perspectives in writing and turn that into

marketing. Yeah, again, it's just, it's just, it's the moving of the goalposts. Like, you know,

again, it was like people that are into, you know, the V8 stuff, let's for lack of a better term,

they're all about drag racing. EVs came along. Hey, these are better at drag racing. Oh, we hate

them. I thought you liked drag racing. No, no, no, no, no. We like loud drag racing. It's like,

what? You know, like, you know, and again. You like drag racing and speed if. I always point

out to people too. It's like, you know, with internal combustion, it's fun and all, but 20%

of the gas burn goes towards forward momentum. 80% is turned into heat and sound. Super wasteful.

Well, yes, Harley Davidson has made a decade's worth of sales based on that. So let's zoom out a

little bit. First of all, thank you for joining us in our new universe podcast era. This is a new

direction that we're going and podcasting has taken a very strange turn over the last stretch,

but you know, there's, yeah, it has because there was the absolute like bombardment of anybody who

has any perspective has a podcast and that it kind of evolved as a curated media, you know,

in the same way that you watch Netflix and there's ads on Netflix, but like if you pay a step up and

then it doesn't and and people have come to the surface that are really like on the forefront

of things and I am the first person to acknowledge that Chris and I had an amazing show and we like

we're just floating above breathing level and then there's, you know, guys like you and the

SCR crew and Farrah and everybody that have really, you know, have driven and pointed the whole

automotive podcasting world towards what it has become and and here we are. So thank you for being

here. Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah. And that said, you have decided I was I was literally at the table

the moment that Jeff and Tim decided to do Hooniverse. I was I was egging them on. So yeah,

that's we were talking about that, you know, the the Hoons of us recently and talking about that

and then talking about like Jeff recording TST centric stuff because that's where he could record

is it's it's the genesis of how how all of us have gotten here, you know, and it is inadvertently

made automotive media what it is. Right. And and and that's inadvertently how you've created a

YouTube channel like you went from like one of the the Motor Trends stalwarts to not yeah, it's

I launched a new channel driving with Johnny. And yeah, you know, it's one of those things like

I was I don't know why I waited so long. I'm glad I did though, because I found this guy Rylic

Alexander that I make the videos with. It was just great. I couldn't do without him. So, you know,

that worked out well. I should have done it years ago, honestly. And I just sort of like I

was pretty comfortable at Motor Trend for a long time. And I had this really great contract that

kind of, you know, predated discovery in a way. And it's you were one of the few through lines,

like through all the shit that Motor Trend has kind of seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I've been there, you know, 15 years, I'm still there in some capacity. It's much smaller than

used to be. But like, yeah, about a year and a half ago or so, they just said, Hey, you're your

freelance now. And I was just sort of like in shock for a year, like, not really understanding

standing what that meant. And I don't know. Yeah, it was just a weird year. And then I finally was

like, you got to do something, dude. And because freelance, I'm doing it, but it's just, it sucks.

So yeah, I have my own thing, my own channel. Everyone tells me it's going really well.

We're like over 8,000 subscribers, it's been two months, which apparently is very good.

I don't say that's good. Yeah, yeah, making some money, which is crazy already, but we've made

some money. If you make any money on a YouTube channel, you have already beaten the odds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, we're, we're, it's okay. It's where I believe actually at the

point where we're taking in more than we're spending, which is, that's good too. So it's a

little tiny bit of profit. And it's been fun, you know, and like today, today, we were supposed to

go yesterday, but we screwed up, but we got, we got the, the Z Nismo review went live. And yeah,

it's, it's, it's fun. I mean, as an old man at this point, old automotive journalist,

it's just like, I have all these stories that I've told like on podcasts and anecdotally for years,

but it's nice to like tell the stories in a car. And, you know, monetize everything that you've

helped others monetize. I've worked for others for a long time and it's, it's kind of, I guess,

nice to be working for myself. You know, long way to go. And somebody told me like, hey,

don't even think about your channel. Don't come to any conclusions about your channel until you've

uploaded a hundred videos when you've done a hundred years. Yeah. And then, then you'll know

what you have something. So it's like, basically two years at the rate we're going. So, okay, that's

fine. The inside baseball of YouTube and automotive is like a hundred videos to somebody who's never

touched this stuff seems like it's like monumental, you know, atmospheric launch, but

hundred videos is if you do clips and shorts and all that stuff. I don't think it's counting that.

I think it's like a hundred actual videos. But, you know, I mean, I've done over, I think I counted

one time, this is years ago, I've done like over 700 videos on Motor Trend. So I'm probably now,

probably close to a thousand videos on Motor Trend. So, yeah, 200 or a hundred big deal.

You ever count how many, how many things you've written for an outlet?

No, I used to write a lot more. I don't write that much now. So, you know, I'm sure it's like

15 years of Motor Trend. It's probably, I don't know, if I write 100 things a year, I don't

know. That's a shit done by normal people's standards. That's a shit done. I mean, I,

I sat down to record with Jeff the other day and was like, Oh my God, I've been doing this for 10

years. Just for who? In a verse, like it's crazy how people become figments of the culture.

Okay. Crazy. You've driven some crazy stuff and I want to, I want to start with the M5 touring

because there has been an enormous divide. I don't think there's anything,

been anything as divisive as the M5 because you and Spike had completely conflicting ideas of

things. And then Jeff and Camille on our, you know, side talks have also had. Who was on your side,

who was pro M5 touring? Camille. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. And what color was Camille's?

I think it was white because I asked him if it's the same one that I'm getting in a few weeks.

Okay. What color was Jeff's? Great question. That's a better question for Jeff because Camille

lives in Boston. You and Camille aren't getting the same car. So, well, sometimes you do. But my,

I have a theory about this because somebody was telling me, I don't, I really don't pay

attention to what anyone else does. Maybe it's a bad thing, but Spike mentioned, he's like,

Camille said hated it, but then somebody told me that Chris Harris loved it.

Yeah. I literally just listened to that episode of you and Spike. Yeah. Going at it and like him

saying, Jason loved it and like, or do no, Jason hated it. Yeah. My theory is, I was talking

to with Jethro Bovington about this. I think there's a lot of variance with the M5 tourings.

I think it's really, you know, varies from car to car. Might be one explanation. It's also might

be one of those things that a lot of people never really spend enough time figuring out how BMWs

work. And but what I mean by that is you have the M1 and the M2 button and just take a moment and

drive around and set the thing up. And then when you hop in it, click and you're in M1 and you have

it set the way you want. I kind of know how Spike drives. I think he just got in there and left

everything in like comfort and then like didn't think much of it and like, yeah, leave it in

comfort and don't push it. It's a pretty slow car. If you bother to put everything into like,

you know, I do M1 kind of like the mid setting, everything sport and I do M2 is like sport plus

with traction control off and like, I didn't have a hard time believing any professional car reviewer

could put that thing in sport plus with everything off and take and really go for a drive and not

not come away liking it. It's rad. It's a good vehicle. And I will also temper that by saying

with Spike, what I was trying to argue is that the RS6 is not as good to drive.

Yeah, it's just worse. And again, I drove both on the same day at the same conditions and like,

boy, the BMW is way better. And it sounds like a lot of that is really circumstantial and like

vehicle to vehicle setup to setup. And for those listening that don't know how it works,

a modern performance cars with adaptive or magnetic or any kind of, you know,

setable, you know, suspension or engine or brakes or suspension, you can tell her to how you like

the car to be. So in the case of, let's say a BMW, there's, there's engine responsiveness,

there's brakes, brake responsiveness, suspension responsiveness and steering and

transmission. Yeah. And you can like toggle all of them. And if you set one of the M settings

traction control, and so it's very customizable and tailored, but you got to actually do it.

If you just hop in the car and leave it in comfort mode, or even if I don't know if there's a

sport or sport plus mode, but you know, there's a sport button on the, so I actually was delivered

the the X five with the off road package with the $10,000 cent silver anniversary or whatever it is,

hell off road package thing. But yeah, the way that I set everything because I live in

Connecticut is like highest performance for engine transmission and steering and then like

medium brakes and comfort suspension. And the way that that is set, if you did that between,

if you had two M fives set up exactly the opposite based on just the way you tell the computer to

exist and what the output is, there would be completely different driving experiences. And I

I think what you're getting out of the M five touring, what other people who never touch that

stuff out of the M five touring are probably like literally different ways to experience and feel the car.

Yeah, it could be. And again, I'm convinced that there's just variants or some good ones and some

bad ones. That's that's the way I'm explaining it because I know the spike drove a different car

than I drove. And, you know, I had a colleague along with me when we did the the test and even,

you know, even he at the end of it, not the end of the day, too, he's like, man, he's like,

BMW is really good, isn't it? Yeah, it's really good. So I don't I don't understand.

Like I understand again, philosophically, if people are just like, they can't get over the fact

that it weighs 5446 pounds, it weighs more than my Lexus. It weighs the same as a as a

what was that thing, the Grand Cherokee Track Hawk, whatever it's called. Yes, which

you know, also make it makes 10 more horsepower. You know, so it's like the track is so good.

Like I feel I will be good. And something that weighs exactly the same that makes a little bit

more power. Why can't that be good and 100 pound feet of torque. So I just again, it's one of those

things. It's like, I think a lot of people just get hung up on the numbers and their their own

orthodoxy of what cars have to be and not really experiencing the car. So everything is relative.

And what people don't do is come into an automotive experience with like

their frame of reference or their expectations in reality, you know, like you but again, like,

you know, like I just I'm just a big believer in like driving the car and what does it feel like

to oh, it's really quick. Oh, it corners really well. Oh, the brakes are very good. Like, okay.

And then but then say, well, it's too heavy because, you know, it's it's like when I had the

SL, not the SL, the AMG GT 63, the coupe, the new one. And, you know, everyone, it's too heavy,

right? And I'm like, every 911 I passed, I was like, I'm too heavy. Right. I'm having so much

less fun than you. No, you know, like, if you're racing, weight becomes very, very important.

But for like driving around and having fun in the canyons, like the one percent of people that

do that with those vehicles, that said, I had the last gen m5 comp for a trip to my my cousin's

wedding. And it was like brutal, brutal ride quality in that car. It wasn't a CS. It was a comp. And

brutal. Yeah, it was it was 20 percent too stiff for for like the Merritt Parkway.

And I got a slight tired coming home at like 10 o'clock, which was awesome and not a sprint

against time or anything. But God damn, was that a great thing to drive? Yeah, that's a funny car

because I actually drove that in Connecticut in New York, but it's like it's just too stiff for the

street. But nobody tracks an m5 comp. So no, no, very, very, very, very well sorted track car.

People who care about tracking and own an m5 comp also have like an E 36.

Yeah, yeah. Caged track abomination. Okay. Yeah, we are on the clock and I just want to do a a

watch assessment. I did this with Jeff on the Wow, what's on your wrist right now?

Because I did it with Jeff and we had some crazy deep conversations. It's hard to make that out.

I can't. It's a Sheffield. Okay, but it's just it's a Sheffield. Is that the that's not the 24 hour?

That's the no, it's just a new watch. They have a camera name with maybe it says

it's very it's called the all sport rally.

That's right. It's very like retro vintage, like space race looking. Yeah, which is I put it on this

new under the cuff. NATO NATO. Yeah, but I got and I think it works. Do the NATO straps bother you?

I've had a couple of NATO straps and and they make watches feel like they're

30% too thick. No, they don't bother me. I have I have abnormally thick wrist.

I like I like a big thick watch doesn't bother me. That's that's fair enough. I've also got

I've also got some other watches here. It's another Sheffield. Yeah, I was gonna say I was going to

wear my my SCR QL one, but I figured that would be a little cliche. Yeah, well, this is another

Sheffield. This is like a GMT kind of driving watch thing and then it's on this cool another

under the cuff official strap. But it's like a it's a rubber strap with this cool deployment.

So it like snaps together like that. Yeah, that's a weird and different kind of

that's that's not a it's almost like a bracelet latch. Yeah, but yeah, rubber is but there it's

great very comfortable and you you know, you literally get a pair of scissors and cut cut it

down to size and that's a good one. And then I also have got some new straps in this morning. I was

putting them on before you called this is super cool. This is I'm so into this watch. This is

a Seiko 5 Actus. So Seiko 5 Actus and it's like from the late 60s. I think it's like 68 or 69.

So it's like just before the Pogues came out, it's got the weird pillowcase, which I love. Yep.

It's a real squared off pillowcase with this, you know, obviously round dial but

and like the Pogue, you can see the crown is sort of inserted into the case there. So it

doesn't have a crown guard per se, but it tucks in and that's very cool. I just love this thing. I

was actually in Tokyo hunting for stuff like this. Didn't find it, but I needed parts for an

turtle that I have. And the company sent me the parts plus like a match book of a 5 Actus. And

I was like, whoa. Nice. Nice. Looking them up. A Seiko turtle? Yeah. Yeah. I got I have a bunch

of turtles. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I'm a turtle collector. I probably have six at the moment.

Okay. But I think I'm now more of a 5 Actus guy or Actus 5. Yeah. See, so I'm looking

Yeah. It's called 5 Actus. I'm looking for a nicer watch than I usually wear to kind of wear for

everything. And every angle points at Seiko 5. I'm like, I'm telling you man, Seiko 5 Actus.

Look at this. Yeah. That is pretty cool. All right. So come on. Talk about a conversation piece.

This is actually the first time this is my deceased, long since deceased grandfather's

Luminox. His Navy Seal Luminox. And it's really like small, like it's like a 38 or a 37 millimeter

case. And it's got, I don't know if something's wrong with it, which it's probably 30 or 40 years

old and something very well may be wrong with it. But it has like a five second jump. And I don't

know if that's a Luminox thing. Like it's like a jumping second hand. Yeah. Yeah. And people who

are listening to this, I guess not watching, they're going to love it. But it, the second hand

does like a five second jump. And yeah, that looks, it looks like something is probably wrong.

That looks like you need, you need to get it oiled. I put a, I put a battery in it

within the last like year. And that's, I think the first time that it's actually been working.

Yeah, I would say. Chris and Johnny, you were, you were on the show, but Chris and I used to have

jokes about like who was president when this car came out or something. And I think, I think the

first bush was, was an office when this watch was last functional. So it probably needs a service

or two. Yeah. And also the, the loom part of the Luminox is completely not functional. But, you

know, you can, you can get watches, reloomed, you can, you know, you can do anything too.

Yeah. Yeah. Your grandfather, that's cool. Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's, let's delve into a couple

other things that I want to talk about before I will let you go. And also, is that a ZZYY

by ZX? Is that a rush thing or the road thing? Zizzix is a town. And there's an exit off the,

off the 10 freeway. But yeah, this guy, I forget his name, but he started like a health spa out

in the desert. It was real popular, you know, hot desert, hot springs, mineral water, blah, blah.

And for some reason, he wanted to be very last in the phone book. So he came up with the word

Zizzix, obviously with the very last word in the phone book. And then my, my wife got me this hat.

And it's a cool hat. It's called a pocket hat. I've never seen this, but like, what is that?

You can like shove $20 bills in here. Let me see. Take this off. That sounds like you're,

going for a surf and need a way to, to buy a beer. Maybe. Yeah. But like, see, there's a little

pocket. Okay. I'm going to shove a 20 in there. A pocket hat. Yeah. That's a new one. That's a new

one. I do know Corey Taylor of Slipknot has a song about that road, which is, I guess,

now, because it is the last road in the, in the phone book or the road.

Yeah, which is so sad because like, don't even know what a phone book is anymore. But

yes, this is a crew, but, but it's, it's a, it's an old abandoned hot spring house spa type thing.

Okay. Fair enough. There we go. There we go. Okay.

We've got a Mistral or, or Diablo GT, which you want to do, or do you want to do both?

Yeah. Mistral, man. Bugatti. What a thing. That is, I've been describing it as the final boss and

yeah, I'm, I'm fortunate. I've driven many W16 powered Bugattis and this, this is the one.

I kind of, I used to say that the Veyron Vitesse, Grand Sport Vitesse was the one. So

notice the pattern. I like, I like W16s with no roofs or the roof comes off and

God damn the Mistral has no roof. And I got to go to the Bugatti factory, which is really cool.

That might be the one I drove. Very similar. It's always fun when you see a picture of a car

and like media stuff and you're like, huh, that's, I think I drove that or that's in my driveway.

Yeah. I think the one I drove at Copper Wheels, but it was exposed blue carbon fiber bodywork.

I drove around with Andy Wallace, which was a real treat. And, you know, aside from being like

25 over the mall winner in the silk cut Jag, he drove this Mistral here, 282 miles an hour.

And so he went 282 miles an hour. That's crazy. I've gone 245, which was like, that was fast.

What's the fastest you've gone with no roof?

168 maybe? I'm trying to think with the roof off. That's fast with no roof.

You're in the backseat? What? Boston was driving. Anyhow, long story.

Oh, yeah. That tracks. Yeah. Mistral, absolutely like,

man, if I had a lot of money, I would buy one. They're just terrific. And it's just,

you know, look, it's everything Bugatti's figured out after 20 years of making

the W16 and that chassis. And they just made it better. 20 years. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, the Mistral, yeah, like it came out in 24 or whatever. They showed it in 22.

Time flies. I thought it was last year. They should have. But anyways, yeah,

they're building 99 of them. They're almost done. And just a special, special, wonderful car. Loved it.

So I will poke the bear here and say this being like the end game, the end all be all.

It feels like we've said that a lot recently with with sure on and then pure sport and everything

from from there on. How do you know or any indication that this is actually like

where it ends? You know, because somebody actually yesterday, I was saying that would have been nice

when I was at the factory two weeks ago, they could have given me a hint. They dropped that new

program solitaire. Oh, I saw that. Rod, which means fog, apparently,

which is basically a Mistral with a roof. But yeah, it's a one of one. So they have this new

program where for 20 million bucks, the green on green on green, they'll build you whatever you

want for 20 million bucks. And so there's one more. And they in their in their kind of

typical Bugatti press release, they say at the bottom that, you know, the one offs, the solitaire

cars will always be built on the current technology. They're going to do two a year. So the Tourbillon,

which is the V 16 replacement, half EV replacement of the watch, the watch named

the named after watch. It will be as complicated as the complication.

Yeah, the the rematch car. But so that, you know, they're actually building a new factory next to

the factory at Bugatti. And I think the old factory becomes the place where they do like

more one off stuff and new factories where they pump out the Tourbillon. That's under

construction. So that factory is not even built. So if they're going to do two a year,

I think there'll be one more solitaire, maybe two more solitaires that are built on

the W 16. And so they're still building the rest of the mistrels are still building the bulleads.

You know, and they're gonna build 40 bulleads and they got 99 mistrels. And I was in there

two weeks ago, they had about I couldn't take pictures. So they had about 12 mistrels under

construction and about four bulleads believed under construction. So, you know, they'll still

be using that factory for a while. But I would guess there'll be two more solitaire W 16 cars.

And then the next solitaire car will be the V 16. Do you ever find yourself in the presence of

these cars and these companies and these facilities thinking how is there this much wealth in the

world that's going exclusively to cars in America and and and you know, we stopped taxing the rich

in 1981. So if you don't tax people with enormous wealth, they they hoard it, you know, inadvertently

inadvertently find a way for it to be right off them. Yeah, they could buy a $6 million car. And

again, it's not like they buy one, it's a stretch they buy several, you know. Yeah. So you know,

average Bugatti owner, I forget the number, but like 10 years ago, it was like the average Bugatti

owner owned 72 cars and two airplanes. The Veyron had like the Veyron owner had

like three helicopters and yeah, 100 cars or something like that. No, I don't wonder about

that at all. I've never never thought about it for a second. And I'm not around the owners all

that often. I'm around the the the working slubs, the PR people and the poor Andy Wallace who's

got to like sit next to me while I'm like in a 600 horsepower car. Dude, I I just had the

the Range Rover Sport SVR, the addition to her, whatever it's called, and it was like 205 grand.

And I'm looking at it going, there is a perspective buying public for this thing, not just like

like the Mistral or, you know, something in that capacity where there's a couple people

they're expecting to purchase it. There's like a sliver that is actually like multiple people

buying this without thinking twice. And it's crazy just to be I mean, cars have gotten expensive.

Like, I mean, you know, $205,000 ain't what it used to be. Six million still a lot for a car. Six.

Yeah. Six million. Five is not. And remember, that's that's the Range Rover Sport, you said. So

the Range Rover, you know, but they they study that they sell it for what they know they can

sell it for. And they sell everyone. Actually, I don't know about the sport, but the Range Rovers

they sell everyone. Yes. Yes, they do. And and it is a wild thing to behold and to be to be like

a degree of separation from Diablo GT. I don't know if have you spoken about that on any platform

yet? Or is this today's Friday during a Wednesday? Yeah. Yeah. So Diablo GT, they built 80 of them.

It's very, very rare to expect it actually. Yeah, 80. Never, never imported to the US.

A few were gray marketed in, including this one. This is the only one and it's kind of this

blurple color. It's called like blue sucre or something. It's purple blue. It's the only one

that left the factory in that color. And I'm no expert in there. There was probably a registry

somewhere, but I believe they were all orange, yellow, black or dark gray, all the GPs. There

was one that was like a French blue that went to Tokyo. And then there was this one, which I'm not

sure where went at first, but it came to the US of all the colors. Blurple is the color to have.

It's a great color and it's got a cool interior. It's got like comfort seats, plus like red and

blue leather. Very cool car. And just a crazy thing. So it's, you know, it was the first

six liter Diablo. It was pre-refresh. So kind of if you think about Lamborghini does it like,

you know, they'll release like a special car just before the refresh. And so this was like

98. Just before Audi bottom, I think bottom in 99. And so they, you know, the became the VT or

it's called the six liter, but this, the engine got punched out from five, seven to six for this.

For the GT, they removed the all wheel drive system. So it's rear drive only and then just tons

of carbon fiber. Yeah. Yeah. How much does it weigh? Nothing. It's all carbon fiber. I don't know

exactly what it weighs, but I think that's it's, I'm going to say 33. You'll never find no one's

ever weighed one. So you'll find like the dry weight or the Italian weight, which is bullshit, but

1460 kilograms. How much? 1460 kilograms. So 3400 pounds, only that 3500. Yeah, 3218.

I said 32. Yeah, maybe who knows, but it's a lot of carbon fiber, which in that year was crazy

to have that much carbon fiber. Yeah, crazy. Yeah. I think as the body panels are all carbon,

except for the doors are still aluminum and the roof is still steel for some reason.

I like the engine bay is lined with carbon fiber, the intake plenum is carbon fiber,

the interior is all carbon fiber. But the roof was steel. Yeah, probably for like

crash test. Yeah. There's no honestly, because so the frame of the GT is still, you know,

aluminum, it's still a space frame. So, you know, just no one had thought to do a carbon

fiber roof as a load bearing thing yet and probably honestly carbon fiber back then.

Who doubled the price of the car? Well, no, no, I wouldn't say that. I just, I don't,

I don't know how good it was, you know what I mean? Like, you know, carbon fiber is technically

stronger than steel if you put it together, right? You know, and this is not experimental, but like,

yeah, who knows what they were up to? And I think, I got to double check next time I see him. I'll

see him next week at the quail, but I think Pagani was, you know, he made his fortune making

carbon fiber for, you know, small projects. For others. Yeah. He was in the area with an auto

clave making car fires. I bet Pagani did all the carbon for this. And isn't that allegedly how,

like how the Von Koenigsegg made money selling tech to others, you know, like licensing what he

was able to do to other company? I thought that was like the solar deactivation thing

he came from. Could be. I mean, he's also, I think he's, you know, he's like Baron Von Koenigsegg,

so I think that's some family money. A ratio is very self made, but yeah, it was just an

absolutely killer car, very racy, great sound, you know, it's 567 horsepower to the rear wheels,

465 pound feet of torque. Yeah, great car, easy to drive. What's great steering,

better than other Diablo is actually really, really good steering. This is a question I

love to ask people who have driven a lot of shit. What's your happy number like

horsepower to weight not, not, not, not ratio, but like 100 horsepower. This is about right.

What's that? Oh, you're saying power to weight. Yeah, 800 horsepower. Yeah, that's awesome. But

1900 horsepower is what I like in the car. I figured out. I drove up. I drove the peanut

fring and Batista. Oh, yeah. That's, that's the correct amount of horsepower. That's the

correct amount of five of my house. Well, yeah, it's not cheap, but like, you know, the, the

Mistral's good. 1570 horsepower is good. 1900 better. Yeah. Yeah. More, I mean, more is generally

better. Yeah. I'm excited about the Tourbillon, just because it's 1800. Getting there, getting

there, you know, the Tourbillon Super Sport comes out and makes 2000. Now we're talking.

Man, what are you, what are you looking forward to at the quails coming up, right? Car week,

all that stuff. Are we looking at the double, like the 2000 plus numbers come any of the like

automotive releases at that point? 2000 plus. Are there going to be a 2000 plus horsepower cars

that? Oh, yeah, probably. I don't know. I honestly don't know that. I know Lamborghini is going to

show something of their few off programmers are now calling it. So like, yeah, PTS plus, like the

family, you know, Mario and the CN like those, the Kuntosh, they're calling those instead of

one off, it's a few off, which you work on a better name. They don't need to work on a

better name. They're making all the money and selling all the cars they need to sell. Yeah,

I'm looking forward to that. I think Lexus is showing something that's going to be the car that

ran up the hill. Something different. Really? Yeah, that I think the car that ran on the hill

will not be a Lexus and Toyota. I don't think it'll be a Toyota and GR. I think it's going to be a

GR. And I feel like you know something that you're not actually saying. I feel like I do too.

And I think Lexus is shy. I got a phone call in about four hours where all will be clarified.

But I think Lexus is showing something that is going to really anger people. Oh, boy. Well,

because they haven't angered people enough recently with a twin turbo V6 on the 550.

That doesn't piss people off enough. What's a good way to anger people in 2025?

It depends where you stand. Everybody can anger everybody. The name of the car that will anger

every single person. I think we'll see. We'll find out. We'll find out. I will call you and

promise to not say anything off the record after this after this podcast. Well, I'm not saying

anything. I got a clarification call. You're not going to get any info out of me, man. But yeah,

Porsche showing some stuff. And it might be, I don't know. I don't know actually what it's going

to be. I have a feeling it could be like new race cars. But Porsche's got a show.

You assume they're going to do a successor to the 918.

For ours on the F80. Yeah, McLaren has a W. You think they would.

So I don't know. Anything else? Yeah, I don't know. I think Aston's showing something.

The Pagani stand is going to be popping off. Pagani stand is going to be really cool. They're

going to have all the track only stuff there. So like Honda R's, YRA R's, the new YRA R Evo,

whatever it's called. That'll be cool. Lots of carbon. Yeah, lots and lots of carbon.

Yeah. So yeah, I'm looking forward to the quail. It should be good. I hope it's nice and cool.

I don't want a hot quail. Hot quail sucks. How hot does it actually get there?

It depends. Last year was nice, but yeah, it's been like, you know, one year was

mid-80s, which everyone dressed up walking around outside and no shade sucks. So I was

looking at the weather. It does. It is going to be kind of cool that Friday. That's the coldest day.

So it'll be 66 degrees in Pebble Beach on Friday. Hopefully the quail is like 75. Oh my god.

So we've had days of like 102 here in Connecticut,

and I'm looking at going to like the Audrin concourse in Newport. Yeah, I'm going to be the Audrin.

Are you going to Audrin? Yeah, I'm going to Audrin. I feel like that's really like the come up of all

the automotive events over the last, call it five years. That's been the one that has gone from like

nobody knew about it to it has weight, you know. That's the heat on it. Yeah. I'm excited to check

it out. They've been asking me to go for a while, and it finally all came together this year. Actually,

me and Zuckerman and Spike are heading out. GR Corolla, what's the latest on the on the

blue shit show? It's just really good. We actually, I saw this filming yesterday,

was I have the new 25 Corolla, and we were filming it kind of against my car checking it out. And

I still love my car. I actually, I will say like they did some real heavy lifting on the 25. I was

pretty impressed. I still like my car better and I come with more power it makes and all that,

but nothing new. I don't know if anyone cares. I have a GR Corolla that I've done some pretty

extensive modifications on. I just need to get a dyno to actually say how much power it's making,

but I'm I'm thinking it's like in the 375 horsepower range for three cylinder car. That is

that's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot left on the table. Like there's people doing,

you know, six to 800 horsepower builds on those blocks. I haven't opened up the internals yet,

but yeah, it's great. It's fun. It's like really a fun car. Yeah, just just a blast in the canyons.

Compared, I will say compared to the 25, my suspension moves around a lot, but I kind of

like that. It's kind of like a rally feel. Feels like an old STI. The 25 are really buttoned down.

They've done a nice job on the suspension. Buttoned down is in like compliant or like

it's stiff and. It's hella stiff and but it's like it's very good. It just doesn't move around in

the corners at all. It's very, it's just, you know, it's got rebound springs, which it just

means, I guess, another spring wrapped around the top of the actual springs. And so basically,

we call them dual rate and they offer it like, yeah, they're dual rate is exactly right. Yeah,

but so yeah. So it just that plus stiffer anti roll bar, stiffer springs overall, plus there's

a rear brace. And just the rear end compared to my car, it feels much more firm and planted.

I will say, sadly, Toyota, in their infinite wisdom, they only have automatics in the press

fleet. What? Yeah, I said, give me a manual. They said, we don't have any. I go, what? They go,

yeah, we're trying to sell the automatics. I mean, hey, yeah, you know, as well as I do,

as well as anybody else that does all this automotive media shit that they're not out there for us,

like they're the companies exist to sell cars to make money during profits. It's not about us,

you know? Yeah. So that said, like, yeah, the automatic adds 70 pounds and like the worst

place possible. So I would say like turning is not as sweet as the standard car, not that my car

stock, but just turn in kind of a little fussy transmission. It's fine. It's, you know, it's

better than a Z Nismo, but it ain't a dual clutch. And like, you know, hey, if Volkswagen can figure

out a dual clutch for a $30,000 GTI, like why can't Toyota? So yeah, but Volkswagen can't figure out

how to differentiate that 30,000 GTI transmission from a $51,000 Dolphins transmission substantially.

Sure. But I'm just saying, like, you know, the cars like this want dual clutches. They don't

want automatics and or manual. And so, but again, like the high speed stability in the new 25 is

very impressive. I was, you know, I don't think I want that. I think I drove back.

There's a big difference. Yeah. And I like how playful and like kind of boppy mine is.

The 23 is 24. So that's the one thing I didn't change at all was the suspension,

but I get why you would want that, especially if you're going to track it. It would be, I think

it would pay dividend to track. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, and I think they're also,

sorry to cut you off. I think they're also kind of trying to keep up with the Civic type R and,

you know, this new gen Civic type R is stiff, just a very stiff thing. So I think they're like,

oh, I got a stiffened up. But hey, they're letting, they're letting, uh,

sporty engineers do sporty stuff on cars and I can't hate them for that. So

there's a lot of really good shit out there. Can't complain about it, about the, about the

landscape. So that said, I'm going to call it. I can see on the monitor, my full month old has

decided that her arm is best eaten through two of the bars on her crib. Ross, take, take care of

your job. Yeah. Johnny, thank you. I appreciate you. Uh, let's connect about Audrey and yeah,

maybe next time we'll get Jeff on and he can, uh, he can tell us how, uh, how fucked up most of his

fleet is. So yeah, I'd love that. All right. So,

cool. Johnny, thank you. I'm going to hit stop in now.

Jonny Lieberman | From the Hoonivault

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BMW M5

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