It’s a camera that reads license plates automatically. Instead of a person typing the plate number, the system turns it into computer data. That data can be used to track or check vehicles.
TPMS is a system that checks your tire pressure. Small sensors in the tires can tell when a tire is low and then your car warns you. It’s meant to help you avoid driving on unsafe tires.
They’re describing a way to build a detailed, unique profile from lots of small clues. The idea is that the combination of devices and vehicle data can identify you more specifically than just a license plate.
In this discussion, “signal trace” means tracking the signals devices emit into the air. The claim is that it records signal activity (like that something is broadcasting) instead of reading the private message content.
To “decrypt” means to unlock scrambled, protected information so it can be read. The claim here is that the system doesn’t do that, so it shouldn’t be reading the private content of communications.
“Dual use” means the same tool can be used for two different purposes. The point being made is that people might think it’s for convenience, but it could also be used for tracking or other uses they didn’t expect.
Encryption is like locking a message so only the right person can open it. If something isn’t encrypted, other people may be able to capture and read what’s being sent.
Here, “broadcasting” means sending a signal wirelessly that other devices can pick up. The worry is that you might be sharing data without realizing it.
The Fourth Amendment is a legal rule that limits when police can search or collect information about you. The point here is that grabbing data from outside your car could be legally complicated.
An iPhone is a phone that sends wireless signals to nearby devices and networks. The point is that it can share data in the background without you realizing it.
Term
AirPods
AirPods are wireless earbuds that connect to your phone. The concern is that they can also be part of the wireless signals being sent around while you’re driving.
TPMS is the system that tells you when your tires are low on air. The concern here is that the sensors can sometimes send more information than people expect, like hints about where the car is.
The point is that it’s not just seeing you once—it’s building a record of where you go. Repeated camera reads can show a pattern of your daily movements.
The idea is that the system doesn’t just guess where you are—it treats the world like it’s divided into zones. As you move from one zone to another, it can track your route more precisely.
Data brokers are businesses that gather information about people from different places and then use or sell it. When location data is involved, they can figure out patterns like where someone goes every day.
A Toyota RAV4 is a very common SUV. The point here is that newer cars like it have lots of built-in tech (like GPS and Bluetooth) that can share information, which makes them easier to track than older cars.
SiriusXM is satellite radio, meaning it comes from space instead of regular radio towers. The mention here is to show how many connected systems are built into modern cars.
Connected cars are cars with built-in wireless features that can communicate with the outside world. The point here is that they can create more opportunities for tracking than older cars.
CarPlay is Apple’s system that lets you use your iPhone through your car’s screen. It’s mentioned here because it’s another example of how cars are built to stay connected to your phone.
Hands-free laws are rules that say you shouldn’t hold your phone while driving. They encourage using phone features through the car instead, like Bluetooth calling.
License plate readers are cameras that scan cars’ license plates automatically. The concern is that they can build a record of where vehicles go, which can be used to track people.
Here, “electronics” means the car’s computer systems. The speaker is saying that if you turn off or disable parts of those systems, the car may not work the way you expect. It’s used to explain why people should understand what’s being changed before buying.
A warranty is what helps pay for repairs if something breaks. The speaker is saying that if you mess with certain systems, you might not be covered anymore. That can make problems cost more out of pocket.
Bluetooth is the wireless connection that lets your phone talk to your car or headphones. The host is using it as an example that turning something off might not actually keep it off.
To “opt out” means to choose not to be part of something—like not sharing data. The point being made is that cars and tracking systems can make that choice harder than you’d expect.
Joseph Cox is a journalist associated with technology-focused reporting. Here, he’s mentioned as the person who produced the story that helped bring attention to the surveillance activity discussed in the episode.
The EFF is a group that works to protect people’s rights online, including privacy. The host is saying they do serious, thoughtful work on these issues.
Here, “privacy” means having control over your personal information. The speaker is saying that even helpful technology can be used in ways that track people more than they expect.
“Guardrails” are safety rules that keep something from being used in harmful or unexpected ways. The speaker is saying we may need similar rules for technology that can be misused.
OBD2 is a built-in computer system in most modern cars that can report problems and emissions data. It’s often used with a plug-in scanner or app to read what the car is doing.
“Emissions equipment” refers to the hardware on a vehicle that reduces pollution, such as components that control exhaust gases and help the engine meet legal emission limits. In the transcript, it’s mentioned in the context of tuning that can bypass or undermine those systems.
LIVE
Hello, everyone, and welcome to The DriveCast.
I'm Joel Fetter, Director of Content and Product of The Drive.
And I'm Adam Ismael, a senior editor at The Drive.
And The DriveCast is our weekly podcast, giving you an inside look at the biggest stories,
controversies, and people shaping the automotive industry.
Today, we are talking about how the devices you carry will enable law enforcement and
the government to track your every move.
Scary thought. Time to break out the tinfoil hats.
That's right, Joel. A new kind of license plate reading camera is said to be far more than its name.
It will be able to scrape the smart devices you take with you and wrap all that data in the neat little bow for law enforcement and government agencies.
To be clear, we aren't talking about your connected car being tracked here, right, Adam?
Because that's a topic, dare I say, old and tired.
No, unfortunately, it goes way beyond that.
We're talking phones, wearables, infotainment systems, even your pet's microchip if they have one.
Yikes. And my dog is definitely chipped.
Who would have thought air tags and smartwatches would enable someone or something to track you, right?
This topic all started last week when Adam covered the story on The Drive.
And boy, did it get some reactions. Shocking.
Today, we are going to dive into what's really going on and have a special guest to help us dissect fact from fiction, my friend.
And more importantly, security expert, Matt Hurwitz, who is currently the CISO at NTAI.
By the way, if you like what we're doing here, do us a favor and hit us with a five star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
It really does help get The Drive cast in front of more people.
OK, let's go.
So, Adam, I swear, we're like living in a movie.
And I say this all the time, like with Elon's robots and all this stuff.
I always say, has no one seen the movie I, Robot or whatever with Will Smith?
And now, now there's so many movies that literally depict what we are living or about to live through.
And I swear, if like my grandmother was alive today and saw like electric cars and robots,
she would be like, what is this kid? Like, it's like a movie.
Yeah. And, you know, in times like this, I always go back to, I don't know,
somebody tweeted this a long time ago, but it's like, dang,
it would be really nice to live in some precedented times for a change because,
you know, I mean, the technology accelerates so quickly in so many facets of life.
And the world is only starting to grapple with something that I'm sure,
you know, our guest Matt will be able to speak to how big the automated license plate reader
camera situation is globally. And those have been out for years to now have to deal with this on top
of that is just a whole new field, you know. Well, and so, and we're going to get to Matt
and the topic at hand. The one thing we're going to do real quick, I think this would be fun,
because it's going to lead into the topic. I thought it'd be fun to admit to each other
all the stuff that we carry on our person, on a regular or our dog. I mean, I'm always walking
around with, I mean, I have my iPhone, I've got my smart watch, I have a smart ring, I'm very
into fitness for those that don't know, and tracking everything. I have AirPods, I have air tags,
my dog is chipped, our cars are modern enough that they have infotainment systems and GPS in them.
I'm sure I miss something, but like, that's just a high level. How about you?
Yeah, I think you covered pretty much every single possible category that they list here
and things that they track. As for me, like on the surface, I travel pretty light, I guess,
like I have my phone, sometimes I wear my smart watch, I'm not good about wearing it every single
day. But the thing is, you know, it almost doesn't matter, right? Like, TPMS sensors are covered here,
right? Just so everyone knows, he just used the acronym for tire pressure monitoring system.
So it's the thing that tells you your car to go, ding, your tire is low on air. But that brings
us right into this topic. And so we're going to get to Matt here in a second. But before we can
ask Matt for all his expert information on the topic, I think we need to just dive into the story
itself and what actually is happening in the report. So specifically, what are we talking
about today and what did you report on, Adam? So Leonardo, which is an Italian defense contractor,
they make surveillance systems, all that, all that kind of stuff. They're coming out or rather,
I should say, they have come out, it's already being introduced in certain markets around the
country. But they have this new technology called Signal Trace. And what it basically is, as I said
earlier, we're all familiar now, for the most part, with automated license plate reader cameras.
And this supplements those cameras, which are already able to basically, if you stitch enough
of the data points together and enough of what's been captured day in, day out, you can pretty much
gather like a person sort of like path through life, through just their vehicle and their license
plate being photographed repeatedly. This now attaches data from smart devices that you carry
with you to that vehicle or to that, that thing you're traveling with it kind of packages everything
together. So it knows, okay, you have this car. And with this car, I see an iPhone 13 or something
with a unique ID. I see this smart watch. Maybe you're traveling with your pet or your dog. If
your dog's shipped, as you said earlier, Joel, that's in there too. And there's so many things
today, obviously, that we rely on. And it's also taking stuff that's built into the car. So infotainment
systems, 5G modems for your Wi-Fi hotspot, if your car has that feature, TPMS sensors, like
everything, it really runs a gamut. And once you're able to do this and take a vehicle and
associate it with sort of a mix of devices, I mean, everyone's mix of devices is unique.
So what that does is it allows whether it's police, law enforcement, government agencies,
investigators, whatever it may be, that allows them to get pretty much like a digital fingerprint
for who you are because everyone's mix is unique. And so the ramifications here are obviously like
wide reaching and kind of a absolutely like a dystopian minefield, right?
And before we talk to Matt, I have one last question. If I were to correctly reading a report
that you did, they made a claim that they're not decrypting any of this information, right? So it's
anonymous, whatever. So what was that claim? And then I have some questions from Matt,
we're going to bring him in. Yeah. So, and this is a quote from Leonardo's own literature here.
They say signal trace captures only publicly broadcast device frequency activity. It does
not decrypt or store any content from devices or communications. It functions like a license plate
reader by capturing identifiers without accessing personal or message data. And what's really
interesting about this is disclaimer is in there basically for saying like, we're not getting any
unauthorized access. We're just picking up on what your devices and what you've purchased and
choose to carry with you just put out into the air. And I think, and this is I think part of like a
really interesting part of the discussion is that seems to on the surface absolve them of some legal,
you know, culpability there. But we're living in a time where again, the technology is advancing
so quickly that, you know, there should be laws around that, right? But there aren't yet. And so
they're kind of able to run with the ball here. Boy, is that a perfect segue to bring in our
friend Matt. So Matt Hurwitz, friend of mine, poker player at my house actually lives here in
Minnesota. We know each other from outside of the work world. Ironically, we're friends. But
sometimes our work worlds collide. You are a security expert, correct? Yes. Though I would
never use that language to describe myself, but yeah. But I do because I love you and you are a
security expert. So just off the top here, Matt. So everyone knows how nervous should consumers be?
Is the strong reaction to this story justified or are people just overreacting like high level?
So listen, Adam, you did a fantastic job representing the technology and the uses
broadly. It's a hugely important part of the conversation because the consumer high level
is used to giving up certain information for convenience or what they perceive as value.
This, well, I'll call it dual use, you know, is probably not what they signed up for when they
clicked the buttons that everybody knows they should read to accept the use of the thing.
I'm sure Adam and Joel read them. I also read them as well, but many people do not.
And so gosh, there's there's a lot to unpack, but they're correct in saying this information is
broadcasted saying I don't encrypt something as Joel like touched on is technically correct. But
encryption is a specific control that stops a very specific type of thing from happening.
That doesn't mean that what they're doing is any less creepy or invasive. And from a policy
perspective, I think, yes, the courts are way behind and the laws are way behind. But there's
something that feels weird about somebody outside of my vehicle, extracting information from devices
that I didn't know was broadcasting it, or I certainly didn't know for this use. So that
law enforcement can grab stuff from outside of my car to know things about me. Like that there's
probably like I'm not an attorney, but there's probably fourth amendment issues that need to
get navigated there. But generally, I say this, if you give a security practitioner access to
you while you're inside their car and they're outside of it with our tools, you might be very
surprised with what we can extract out of the air. And then we can connect that to other things about
you that's generally available on the internet. And we have a very good picture of things that
you didn't know was readily out there. That is a perfect setup for what I wanted to ask you.
I wanted to know, you can't opt out because you mentioned in here about how you're driving around
and you mean like you get an iPhone, you get AirPods, you get anything new with Tronk device,
you basically have to click the terms and conditions and you accept it. And again,
while the three of us absolutely read every word of those things or assume it probably does.
Yes. And I'm sure Matt like prints them out and puts them in a file. But the reality is,
is that you really don't know. And to your point, you're driving down the road and you're just
broadcasting all these things. And you can't opt out. Now, if I invite you in my car, I invited
you a security expert into my car. And while we're friends, you could do things. You could do things
that I probably wouldn't even know you could do. But what about my dad? What about like my friends
that don't even know about cars and didn't realize their tire pressure monitoring system could
broadcast their location? It doesn't protect them. Ignorance for what you've bought and what you're
using, at least according to laws today, doesn't protect them. And what makes it even more difficult
to suss out is that you have something in mind when you opt in, when you buy your iPhone and you
click through and you log in, you're thinking about talking with your friends and families,
staying connected in social media, accessing your photos, all of those things. And to make those
ecosystem work, there are great conveniences built in. So like when, when you go to the airport
and you want to get online and you open your laptop or your phone and you see 30 different
Wi-Fi things and you pick the one you want to connect to, the reason you know they're there
is because they broadcast things out into the world, the name of my network, the MAC address,
like various things, so that you as the end user can pick MSP free Wi-Fi and get online.
And those protocols that are there to help devices discover each other and know who they are
can be used in interesting ways. When you broadcast, whether it's a Bluetooth Low Energy device,
the things that, the beacons that you hear about that, you know, let you find your wallet when you
lose it and your keys, they're constantly broadcasting a few pieces of information
that are relevant to make that experience work, signal strength, the name of the tag,
there's a MAC address, which is like an identifier for the device and some of the pieces on the device.
When you put all of that together, it helps you find your wallet, but it also would let somebody
like me discover like signal strength is a decent proxy for how far are you from the thing
that is receiving this signal or sending this signal. So that gives me proximity to where you
are at a given time. When you connect to a Wi-Fi network or some vehicles have Wi-Fi that the
users can connect to, if I'm driving around in the car next to you and I'm looking to see that,
we've all done that. We've seen our neighbor's Wi-Fi. Even if we can't connect to it, we can see
where it is. And that data helps build a profile and a picture. That technology that is broadcasted
publicly, it is only available over a certain distance that is not super far, but it's far enough
that if you're close to it or if you can otherwise harness the signal, that information
is technically out there. So yes, it is not encrypted. You don't technically need a key
to make sense of the information. So that is correct. But how somebody might use that information
is probably not what the end user had in mind. So these devices that are already out there and
doing these single function or dual function things, now having the ability to track basically
all the things that are putting off these Bluetooth and RF signals. So whether it's
your tire pressure monitoring system, your air tag, your dog's chip, your iPhone, your
Oro ring, your watch, we can just go through the list of all the things that I own in my life.
And you don't realize that these things are now being picked up. But the scary part of it is not
just being picked up at the stoplight or at that stoplight. Because when you're going from this
stoplight to that stoplight to this stoplight to that stoplight, you're not creating a map.
You're on a grid. And these things can paint a picture of your actual location and your whereabouts.
And to be clear, a lot of people have routines. So you can suddenly paint a picture of someone's
life on the daily or on the regular. And you could use this for very nefarious uses. Did
I summarize all this correctly, Adam, and why people are nervous?
Yeah. And you know, gang sort of caught up with this most recent development and what Leonardo
is doing. And obviously, they're not the only company. We can talk about others that kind of
run the gamut more in terms of like the ALPR stuff. But like, I remember like back in 2019,
what turned me on to this was I think there was a New York Times report that was just basically
sort of laid bare like all of the ways that data brokers can track you. And it's just as simple as
like knowing where you are and that you do that routine every single day. And that's it. And this
is something to kind of go into, I guess, and that would be a good judge of this. But like,
has the horse left the barn in a way? Like, are we, you know, have we already given up so much
just with the license plate cameras already? And the technology that existed previously
that, you know, obviously, I won't say this doesn't matter. This seriously matters. But
I think what's almost happening is when we when things like this happen, when this technology
becomes aware, or when the public becomes aware of it, we're all just getting caught up, you know,
and then you're waiting for policy to catch up. And it's just like, how much of our lives have
we already been living like this without even knowing it? I guess it's just kind of a question
I just keep reflecting back on. So we've been talking about this in the practitioner community
for a long time. And what's generally accepted is convenience and value tends to trump security
most of the time for most people. There is a lack of meaningful policy regulation. What have you
around this? But I think if you wait long enough, there will be examples that affect people in a
very real way. And that will cause a conversation to happen, which I think is really important.
There's some other things that you guys should probably kind of think about in this kind of
problem space more generally. As chips get better over time, they get more powerful,
they get smaller. It becomes much easier for a manufacturer to buy a chip that does more than
they need. And so like, what does that mean? I want to buy a small chip that opens a doorknob,
or, you know, like pose a cord or whatever it is in the digital equivalent. The chip that I'm
buying is one of 10 billion made a year by a large manufacturer somewhere in the world.
And they build a chip that's most readily appealing to the market. So that chip may have
capabilities above and beyond the doorknob and the string that go into the device that
don't get used or don't seemingly get used because of the function, right? Like all I'm
trying to do is turn a doorknob. I'm not expecting it to open my garage door. But it's already in
the chip. It already is powered. There's already like the built-in wiring there. We think about that
as like third party supply chain risk in like the parlance. You hear a lot of like Congress is
starting to talk about and federal agencies are starting to talk about the bill of materials and
the risk of the bill of materials that go into the thing, right? And so this is kind of an extension
of this where if you buy a new car off the line now that's mid-priced, it probably has 120 computers
in it. Everything is super technical, right? There's a lot of questions as to what else these
things can do. And every once in a while you'll see interesting research come out about, you know,
like security researchers that have found ways to abuse stuff. That's something to keep in mind
as well. So it's not just this particular vendor using a signal that is broadcast publicly to do
something that's unexpected. Much more broadly, this is going to happen more and more in the
automotive space but in the world in general. I think consumers, ignorance is bliss and you
just agree to the terms of service or whatever. And I don't think people realize how complicated
cars are. And I'll put this story then about to note here in like one sentence in the show notes
here so that people can click and read it. But we just recently, within the last couple of weeks,
did a story about a guy who went and bought a new Toyota RAV4 to your point, Matt. That's a mid-priced,
you know, let's call it a $32,000, very mainstream. It's one of the best-selling cars in the world.
This is not a fancy luxury car. But those cars have big screens. They have a ton of chips in them.
They're computerized. Most of them are all hybrids now. And it has GPS and Bluetooth and all these
and AM FM radio and Sirius XM radio. And he didn't want anybody to be able to track his car. I'm
dead serious. This is a guy that was in the security field or whatever like that. And I don't know
whether we're in the tin foil hat realm or not. I don't know. I don't know this person. But the
story goes that he wanted his car to be untrackable. And to do that, he literally had to rip out
Bluetooth and GPS and sat radio. And he had to rip off all the communications electronics,
essentially. So to your point, we are living in their connected cars. Just to have your phone
via Bluetooth, that is a connected car. And we now live in a society where people can literally
not go down the road without texting someone. That's why we have carplay and everyone argues
whether you need carplay. Stop texting while you're driving people. But that's not the point.
So now we have to have these Bluetooth and all these other signals because otherwise we have
hands free laws, which because people can't drive without talking on the phone. But cars are data
themselves. And now we're talking about expanding to the stuff you're carrying on your person in
the automotive world for license plate readers and all that stuff to literally connect you that way
and make a digital map of your entire life. It is scary. It's totally scary. Matt, what can people
actually do? I mean, beyond this guy, other than this guy who'd like ripped everything out of his
actual car, aside from that part of it, right? What can people do? Should they really be concerned?
Should they not be concerned? I think people should be aware and they get to determine how
much concern and how much like behavior change they want to make based on that. Like my biggest
problem is when people don't know and then they find themselves caught up in the bad
and had no idea. So I think that because I'm surprised that Joan's car still worked because
I imagine you disabled a bunch of the electronics and you're on your own, no warranty. Maybe it
doesn't even start. I had no idea. But like the average consumer needs to have like three sentences
before they make a choice or iconography that they can trust or something so that at the speed in
which I make my purchase, I can take a beat and understand what's going on. There's a secondary
issue that much like you mentioned in like with related to your phone, those ecosystems
in and of themselves right now don't have a lot of choice, especially for the average consumer.
It's like, are you using Apple or are you not? And for most people, not using Apple is a non-starter.
I think in the short term, it could be painful in the long term. It could lead to more choice,
more meaningful legislation, potentially regulation that helps consumers. I'm not a huge
pro-regulatory person, but I think the consumer has to know in a way that makes sense to them as
to what the risks are. I think that's a big gap right now. People are going to be very surprised.
I would agree with you. And it is funny you mentioned that because like you go on Reddit,
you go to, I mean, even the comments on the drive. And if you go to a car like a Rivian or a Tesla
or even any of GM's new EVs and you make mention in the story, as we would as journalists that
these cars don't have Apple CarPlay, you either have someone in the comments who owns one of
these vehicles and they're like, well, it's not that big a deal. I live with it and it's fine or
I miss it. Or you have people in the comments who are like, well, I won't buy a GM EV or
I won't buy a Rivian or I won't buy a Tesla because they don't have CarPlay. And I need CarPlay.
And you know, stick it in my veins. I can't drive without it. It is a very big lightning rod for
people of, I need it. I don't need it. And in those cases, a lot of people either haven't tried to
live without it. And so then you end up with people in the comments that own one of these vehicles
saying, I miss it or I don't. And it's very interesting. But I want to do, because we want to
keep everything tight here. Let's read through some final thoughts here. Adam, I want to start
with you. Final thoughts on the topic as the one who originally reported on all this for us.
Obviously, dangerous, very interesting times. It's going to be interesting to see
what stories like this, because obviously it won't be the last they're going to do the public
awareness, as Matt mentioned earlier, and also policy. I'm also curious how, you know, device
makers and technology companies and stuff like that respond to this, because like, I'm just
thinking off top of my head, like, if I turn off Bluetooth on my iPhone, it turns itself back on.
Like, I have to go at least in like the pull down control center, whatever, if you tap that,
turn itself back on tomorrow, right? People don't even know that they might think they're
turning it off, and they're turning it off for good. Cars work the same way too. Your level
of control in a car might not be as granular as you need it to be. And obviously, like,
this isn't something, as we've said multiple times, you can just opt out of, right? It's going to be
really, really hard if you really want to try and be that person who rips the serious XM out of
your RAV4. That might be what it takes. You know, I guess it's one of those things like,
watch this space, because this conversation is going to only deepen. And also shout out,
by the way, the 404 media, who they were the ones who, Joseph Cox there, who did that story that,
you know, kind of got a lot of people aware of what Leonard was doing and then what's been
going on there. So shout out to them. Matt, final thoughts on this topic. For today, at least,
because I think Adam is right about this won't be the last time.
There's a small number of people that care about privacy holistically all of the time.
There's fabulous work being done at, like, the EFF and other orgs that are very, like,
intellectual about these types of things and in the practitioner community. I think broadly,
privacy only becomes a consumer concern when something bad happens and they get caught up in
it. And so I would love to see us get a little bit ahead of that happening. But there is a lot of
convenience in these electronics. I don't think it's a malicious conspiracy among, you know, like,
I'm not, I'm not in that way. I think that in this case, these are protocols that are being used
that were designed for convenience and efficiency and, and bring a lot of meaningful interactions
into people's life through technology, which I think is really important. But when people decide
to use it for alternative means or in ways that are unexpected to the consumer, or in this case,
it's essentially if I understand this correctly, to help coordinate with law enforcement for
some reason or other. I think that that's an area that we have to tread in to very carefully,
because privacy is important. And I'll just leave it at that.
And I will say, you know, to wrap my final thought into things with with everything you
guys said, I don't disagree with anything you said, I would love to see some kind of legal
framework being talked about or put around this. I mean, we've all seen the news that, you know,
whether it's anthropic with the with the current government or, or, or, or any of the AI systems
and the framework they're talking about and guardrails they're putting up within that system.
You know, it was just a couple of weeks ago that Caleb and I were on this podcast,
talking about the feds coming for diesel truck owners, and they're starting with your phone
because of this OBD2 app that was allowing tuners and people to basically skirt their emissions
equipment. And so the irony that we're sitting here literally, actually not almost a month,
almost a month to the day, and talking now about the government being able to track you via all
these other devices using license plate readers, it's, it's, to your point, the conversation,
it's, it's continuing a month later. It's, it's not the first time if it will absolutely not
be the last time. And I just want to say thank you to Matt, I mean, Adam, obviously, but you
have to do this, your worker, you work here. Matt does not have to do this. He doesn't work here.
And I really appreciate him taking the time to join us. I'm sure you'll be back. And I appreciate
your time insights and, and your knowledge. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you guys. This has been a lot
of fun and look forward to talking again soon. So if you know something that concerns you related
to the auto industry or on this topic, absolutely feel free to drop us a line at tips at the drive.com.
We'd love to hear from you. I read every email I promise. That's it for this week's episode of
the drive cast. Thanks to the defense contractor Leonardo for opening another iteration of Pandora's
box to Adam for his reporting on this important story to Matt for his time and insights. Thanks
to our editor Tyler Mark and thank you for listening. We'll be back next Wednesday.
Be sure to check out the drive.com for our full coverage on this topic and a whole lot more.
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About this episode
License plate readers are framed as more than roadside tech: the hosts connect ALPR cameras to phones, wearables, and in-car systems to build detailed profiles. They debate claims that some tracking only captures “publicly broadcast” signals, while explaining how unencrypted wireless data and signal strength can still reveal proximity and routines. Connected-car complexity and weak regulation make opt-outs difficult, and the show closes by urging attention to privacy guardrails.
The devices you carry will enable law enforcement and the government to track your every move. Scary thought. Time to break out the tin-foil hats.
A new kind of license-plate reading camera is said to be far more than its name. It will be able to scrape the smart devices you take with you and wrap all that data in a nice little bow for law enforcement and government agencies.
The Drive's Director Of Content And Product Joel Feder and Senior Editor Adam Ismail are joined by security expert Matt Hurewitz, who is currently the CISO at Ent.AI, to sort fact from fiction and dissect what's really going on here.
Stories mentioned in today's episode:
License Plate Cameras Will Soon Track Phones, Wearables, Infotainment, and Even Your Pets
Want To Stop Your New Car From Transmitting Your Personal Data? It’s Possible
Cops Are Already Using License Plate Readers to Stalk People
00:00 Intro
04:14 License plate cameras are about to track you
07:42 Should you be concerned?
13:56 The danger that lurks
16:42 Slippery slope
18:40 Cars are incredibly complicated and connected now
20:37 What can people do?
23:04 Final thoughts
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