This specific race is famous because Ferrari had to deal with a big controversy about team orders. Basically, the team wanted one driver to let the other pass, and it caused a lot of debate.
“Team orders” are instructions from a Formula 1 team telling drivers how to race relative to each other—often to maximize points or protect a championship position. They’re controversial because they can reduce the sense of pure, competitive racing between teammates.
The Dutch Grand Prix is the Formula 1 race held in the Netherlands. The hosts are saying they’ll be there for the whole weekend and want to meet fans at the track.
A sprint weekend is an F1 format where a shorter “sprint” race is held earlier in the weekend and affects grid positions for the main Sunday race. It changes strategy and makes qualifying-like performance matter even more.
Silverstone is the famous race track in the UK where the British Formula 1 race is held. The hosts are saying they’ll do a similar fan meet-up as they did there before.
They’re talking about the U.S. Formula 1 race in Austin, Texas. It’s held at a track called Circuit of the Americas, and it’s one of the main F1 events in the United States.
In F1, there’s a championship for teams, not just drivers. If a team wins “constructors’ titles,” it means both of their cars collectively scored enough points to be the best team that year.
They’re talking about times in F1 when one team was clearly better than the rest. Those stretches usually happen because the team gets the whole package right—car, strategy, and drivers—while rivals struggle to match it.
F1 has two big trophies. One is for the team (based on how all their cars finish), and one is for the driver (based on that person’s points). Winning lots of both usually means the team was truly strong overall, not just one lucky driver.
In F1, the engine isn’t just a component—it strongly affects how fast and reliable the car is. If a team works with different engine suppliers, it can change the car’s performance a lot.
McLaren is a major F1 team with a long history. When people talk about dominance, McLaren is often mentioned because they’ve had stretches where they could seriously compete with the top teams.
Benetton is another F1 team mentioned as an example of how dominance doesn’t always stay with one outfit. In F1, teams can rise and fall as cars improve and competition changes.
Cooper was a famous F1 racing team from the early era. They’re important here because they helped push a new way of building race cars—putting the engine in the back.
In the earlier days of F1, cars broke down more often. Even if a team was fast, reliability issues could stop them from finishing races and winning consistently.
They’re talking about how hard it is for one team to stay on top for a long time. In older F1, rules and technology changed quickly, and cars were less reliable, so dominance was harder to maintain.
Concept
rear engine layout vs front engine layout
They’re comparing where the engine sits: in the back versus in the front. That placement changes how the car feels and grips in corners, so it was a big deal.
Back then, most race cars put the engine up front. Cooper started using a rear-mounted engine, which helped the car handle better and made it a big step forward in race-car design.
They’re talking about a stretch where Red Bull was winning championships almost every year. The key idea is that they weren’t just fast drivers—they had the whole package working together.
The constructors’ championship is the team title. It’s based on how both cars perform across the season, so it rewards the whole organization, not just one driver.
The drivers’ championship is for the single driver who scores the most points across the season. It’s different from the team championship, which is about how well the whole team performs.
Toro Rosso was Red Bull’s sister team in Formula 1. The idea is that Red Bull had more than one team working in the same system, which helps with development and performance.
Topic
2008 in mongza in that horrible wet race
They’re talking about the 2008 Monza race when the track was extremely wet. Rain changes how the tires work and how drivers can brake and accelerate, so races can turn chaotic.
Jaguar is a car brand that was connected to an F1 team in the past. The point here is that teams can change owners and names, and that history matters for how they evolve.
In F1, a “customer team” is typically a team that isn’t a full manufacturer works team, but instead relies on another organization for key resources like engines, technical support, or infrastructure. The hosts are pointing out that it’s notable when a customer-style setup still manages to win races and championships.
Toyota is referenced as a long-time global manufacturer that struggled to convert effort and spending into F1 success. In this context, it highlights how even major budgets don’t guarantee dominance in motorsport.
BMW is cited as another major manufacturer that spent heavily in motorsport but “could not amount to anything.” The point is about the gap between investment and results in F1’s competitive environment.
Adrian Newey is credited as a major factor behind Red Bull’s peak performance, with the hosts calling this era his “crowning moment.” The idea is that his car design philosophy and development skill translated into consistent competitiveness and championship-winning performance.
Pole positions are awarded to the driver who qualifies fastest and starts the race from the front of the grid. The hosts use the “15 pole positions” stat to argue that the 2010 car was especially strong in qualifying, which often sets up race control and points.
This segment centers on a specific 2010 championship moment involving the Brazilian Grand Prix and the points battle between teammates. It’s framed as a critical decision point that could have changed who won the title.
The hosts mention Abu Dhabi as the place where Vettel ultimately wins enough points to secure the championship. This acts as the payoff to the earlier strategic controversy and sets the narrative of “dominant era” completion.
The hosts point to the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix as a key example of Red Bull/Vettel’s dominance—yet also a race where the result swung dramatically. It’s used to illustrate how dominance can still be disrupted by race incidents and late-race strategy.
A last-lap overtake means the pass happened right at the end of the race. In F1, that’s exciting because it usually requires perfect timing and a strong run at the right moment.
The segment discusses how Vettel’s on-track dominance and perceived incidents shaped his public image as the “bad boy” of F1. This is about the feedback loop between racing narratives, media framing, and fan perception.
They’re saying the biggest success comes when the driver and the car “click.” A great driver can make a good car faster, but a great car also helps a driver win more consistently.
They’re comparing the situation to a game where you can spend as much as you want. In real F1, having more resources helps a team keep improving and stay ahead, even though it’s never a sure thing.
Concept
chicken pox
They’re referencing an illness that kept a driver out and led to someone else filling in. In racing, if a driver can’t race, it can change results and even the championship.
If one driver is so much faster, they can pass the other car and complete an extra lap. That can be tricky because the slower car is trying to stay out of the way while the faster car is racing hard.
The hosts are describing a rule incentive/encouragement that pushed teams to adopt the next engine direction earlier than required. In F1, such regulation timing can strongly affect development schedules and competitive advantage.
In racing, a “near miss” is when you’re close to winning something big, but it doesn’t quite happen. It could be because of crashes, mistakes, or bad luck.
Concept
VILNERV crashes into schumacher
This is describing a crash between Schumacher and another driver. In F1, crashes are huge because they can end a race early and cost valuable points.
F1 has two big season trophies. One is for the driver who scores the most points, and the other is for the team that scores the most points with both of its cars.
They’re talking about which F1 seasons were especially dominant and why—using points gaps and consistency to show how strong the winning teams/drivers were.
F1 doesn’t just crown the winner of one race—it adds up points from many races. The bigger the points gap, the more clearly one driver was beating the rest over the season.
Inflation makes numbers from the past look smaller or bigger than they really were. “Adjusted for inflation” means they’re re-calculating the figure so it’s fair to compare with today.
A “podium” is finishing in the top three. Doing it in every race means the driver never had a bad weekend—no crashes, no retirements, and no finishes outside the top three.
A “world title” is the championship trophy for the season. In F1, it’s earned by scoring the most points over the year, either as a driver or as a team.
Concept
regulation of dominance
Sometimes F1 rules stay similar for a while. If one team figures out how to build the best car for those rules, they can stay on top for years.
This means the team made their own engine instead of buying one. When you build it yourself, you can tune the whole car around it, which can make you faster.
Concept
dominant over midfield teams
The hosts describe dominance as spreading beyond the front of the grid, affecting how midfield teams performed. When a top engine package and technical support become available, teams can leap forward quickly, compressing the performance gap.
Mercedes is one of F1’s biggest teams, and in this era they were winning so much that other teams couldn’t keep up. The episode also mentions how Mercedes did in the team championship versus the driver championship.
Lewis Hamilton is one of F1’s most successful drivers. Here, the hosts are saying that when Mercedes had the best car, Hamilton made it look even more unstoppable.
Nico Rosberg is another Mercedes-era F1 driver. The segment is basically saying that while Mercedes dominated, there were still race wins spread around by different drivers.
A period of dominance means one team is winning again and again for a long time. In F1, that usually happens when their car and team setup are clearly better than everyone else’s.
They’re talking about how F1 teams update their cars during the season. The key idea is that teams have to decide when to bring new parts and how to time them with other planned improvements.
The Bahrain GP is one of the F1 races on the calendar. Here, it’s mentioned because the team planned an upgrade for that race but ended up bringing it later.
Sometimes teams bring a new part just for a single race. That can be because they’re testing it, or because they’re planning a bigger update soon and want to manage timing.
In F1, rules can change, and that can force teams to redesign how they build the car. The hosts are saying the timing of upgrades was affected because the sport was moving into a new rules era.
Preseason testing is where teams validate baseline car performance and collect initial data before the race calendar begins. It’s often used to establish a “foundation” setup, then later compared against results after upgrades.
If you only get one practice session, you have less time to try things and fix problems. So bringing new parts can be risky because you can’t learn as much.
Car setup is how teams tune the car to make it handle the way they want. If you don’t have time to test, you might not know what to change after a new part goes on.
Qualifying is when drivers try to set the fastest lap to decide where they start the race. If you haven’t tested enough, you can’t easily fix problems before it matters.
They mean the team tries new parts quickly to see if they work. It’s risky because if the changes don’t behave as expected, the car can get worse and you lose time and positions.
They’re talking about the Canada Grand Prix as the next place to bring improvements. They also say it will be a sprint, which changes how teams plan the weekend.
Track time is how much time the team gets to drive and test during the weekend. If you lose that time, it’s harder to get the car working well for the race.
The Toyota Supra is a sports car made for fast driving and quick handling. People talk about it a lot because it’s designed to feel exciting to drive on a road or track. If the podcast is discussing longer practice sessions, the Supra might be mentioned as an example of a car that’s built for performance over time.
In F1, the rules can change between seasons or even mid-year. When that happens, teams have to adjust their cars and how they set up for each session, because what worked before might not work as well anymore.
F1 sometimes changes rules to make racing safer. Those changes can affect how the cars are built and how drivers approach sessions, even if the goal is safety rather than speed.
They mean Mercedes should keep pushing hard with new parts and improvements. In F1, even if you’re ahead, you can fall behind if you stop updating the car.
F1 cars manage stored energy (from the battery) and decide when to use it for extra power. The idea here is that teams were timing that power use to get a stronger push right before the qualifying lap.
In F1, teams can change how the car uses its power and energy depending on the session. A “qualifying map” is basically the settings that help the car deliver maximum performance for the qualifying lap.
They’re saying a certain trick or strategy is no longer allowed. When F1 changes what you can do, teams have to change how they plan their power use and setup.
In F1, every team uses an engine that’s part of the car’s overall speed. If one team’s engine is weaker than the others, it’s harder for them to catch up, even if their car is otherwise good.
Compression ratio is how “squeezed” the air-fuel mixture is inside the engine before it ignites. If the rules change what compression ratio teams are allowed to use, it can change engine power and performance in a big way.
They’re talking about whether teams can improve their cars with new parts during the season. The question is whether those updates will actually make the cars faster enough to change who’s winning.
They’re wondering if Red Bull might leave Formula 1. Teams don’t decide only based on race results—money, marketing value, and long-term plans also matter.
A “full manufacturer” in F1 typically means the company is deeply involved in building and developing the car, not just sponsoring. The speaker contrasts that with other forms of participation, emphasizing how manufacturer status can bring credibility and investment.
Aston Martin is a big car brand that also builds and races cars in Formula 1. When people talk about Aston Martin in F1, they’re usually talking about how well their race team and technology are performing.
“Gutting” an F1 engine program usually means cutting resources—people, budget, and development focus—often due to restructuring or poor performance. In F1, that can slow development because engine improvements require sustained engineering effort over time.
“Development of the engine” in F1 means continuous upgrades—improving power, efficiency, and reliability through iterative design changes. The segment emphasizes that catching up requires matching not just current performance, but the ongoing development pace.
In race cars, the body shape isn’t just for looks—it controls airflow. If the airflow around the engine and cooling isn’t right, the engine can’t perform as intended.
It means the team is trying to add lots of people quickly to improve the car. But even if you hire fast, it usually takes time before it turns into faster race results.
They’re talking about whether Aston Martin can change engine suppliers. Even if the current engine isn’t performing well, contracts and timing can stop a team from switching quickly.
It means they already have enough parts/engines on hand for now. So even if they want to change later, they can’t do it instantly because they’re set for the near term.
In F1, the power unit is the car’s main engine system, including the hybrid parts. The point here is that even if the engine improves, the car still has to be designed to work with it.
Jordan was a Formula 1 constructor (team) that competed for decades and is remembered for its distinctive identity and place in F1 history. The hosts discuss bringing back the Jordan name, focusing on the branding and legacy rather than the operational logistics.
Porsche is a major motorsport and automotive brand with deep racing heritage, including major involvement in endurance racing and past F1 engine/participation efforts. The hosts mention wanting Porsche to return, and they also reference engines, tying the brand’s legacy to F1 technical contribution.
“Recovery point” here means a realistic performance milestone for a struggling team to regain credibility—measured by consistent points and competitive pace rather than occasional flashes. The hosts argue Williams must be regularly scoring and beating specific rivals to be considered “back.”
A “midfield battle” in F1 refers to the fight for positions typically outside the top teams, where small performance differences decide who scores points. The hosts use it to describe the competitive target Williams must reach—being quick enough to consistently run with and beat other midfield cars.
Haas is an F1 team that often runs in the midfield and lower midfield depending on the season. The segment frames Haas as a benchmark Williams must surpass to achieve a “realistic recovery point.”
They’re talking about nostalgia—when people feel attached to a team because of its history. Even if the results aren’t as dominant today, the old wins and stories can still make people root for it.
They’re saying Ferrari should be more willing to hire people from outside the team. In racing, new perspectives can help a team improve faster.
Brand
fredverser
This sounds like the name of an F1 team boss. The point being made is that even a strong leader can be constrained by how the team is run internally.
Brand
john elkin
The hosts mention John Elkin as someone whose comments during the season didn’t help. They’re basically saying that certain kinds of criticism or meddling can make things worse.
Team culture is basically how a team is run and how people work together. The hosts are saying that if results aren’t great, it might be because of the way the team is managed, not just because of who’s in charge.
Brand
charlotte claire
This name looks like it’s referring to Charles Leclerc, a Ferrari driver. The hosts are saying Ferrari may have trouble keeping drivers fully committed because of how the team is run.
In F1, the engine matters a lot because it provides the power and efficiency the rest of the car depends on. If the engine isn’t strong enough, the team can’t fully use the car’s speed potential, even with good aerodynamics.
Concept
aerodynamically it was new his car
They’re saying that the car’s shape and airflow (aerodynamics) can be so good that it makes up for not having the very best engine. In F1, aero helps the car go faster and stick better in turns.
Concept
chassis upgrade in japan that doesn't work at all
They’re talking about a car update that was supposed to improve how the car handles, but it didn’t. In F1, changes to the car’s structure and setup can strongly affect grip and stability, so if an upgrade doesn’t work, it can set the team back.
“Mediocrity” here means consistently finishing around the middle of the field rather than challenging for podiums or wins. In F1 terms, it usually reflects a gap in car performance, development pace, and/or resources compared to the front-running teams.
“Scaling up the grid” means moving from being a mid-pack team to consistently competing at the front. In F1, that requires sustained upgrades across the car (especially aerodynamics and power unit integration), plus enough people and budget to keep improving each season.
Audi is mentioned as an example of a large manufacturer that could realistically scale up to win championships within a few years. The hosts connect that idea to having strong engine development and the ability to turn early performance into podiums.
Term
engine in the car start picking up podiums
The hosts attribute progress to “the engine in the car” leading to more podiums. In F1, the power unit’s performance and how well it’s integrated with the chassis and aerodynamics can strongly influence lap times and race results.
Cadillac is being talked about as a team that needs to focus on not having major problems during races. The suggestion is that staying out of trouble is the first step to improving results.
Concept
start the race at the same time as everyone else
They’re saying one team has trouble getting off the line or starting under the same conditions as the others. In racing, that can mean losing position immediately, which then makes it harder to score points.
The hosts debate whether F1 teams should formally declare a nation to encourage local fan support. They argue it could backfire by effectively “exiling” most of the globe, since there are only 11 teams and many are based in the UK, which could reduce the sense of global inclusion.
Alpine is a racing brand in Formula 1. The hosts are pointing out that even though it’s French, a lot of its current work is based in the UK, so the “country” of a team isn’t always straightforward.
If a team isn’t building its own engine, it means they’re using an engine from someone else. That can shift where the team’s real engineering work happens, even if the team’s brand is tied to a particular country.
Tribalism is basically when people pick a side and start thinking of it as “our team” versus “their team.” In F1, the hosts are saying that could make rivalries feel more personal than fun.
Brand
Italy
They mention Italy as part of the geography of where teams and fans might feel connected. It’s about how location influences which teams people think of as “local.”
They’re talking about how F1 teams are set up in certain places, so lots of talented people end up clustering there. That can shape where drivers and engineers get chances.
“Motorsport Valley” is a nickname for a part of the UK that has a lot of racing teams and car-development companies close together. Because they’re all near each other, it’s easier for drivers and engineers to find opportunities.
LIVE
Thank you for listening to the late breaking f1 podcast make sure to check out new episodes every wednesday and every sunday
Hello and everyone welcome to the late breaking f1 podcast presented by Sam sage and me ben hocking on what is
Thankfully the final sunday before we get some f1 racing again, Sam
Yeah, I'm really happy cheers Europe appreciate that obviously absolutely bangers. I get never fails. No
Miami though. We don't know if that's gonna fail yet. It's so what it's formula one
I'll take care of this point. Is it just gonna be like it doesn't matter if it's an awful race. It's f1
Yeah, it's great. I mean, yeah, I have I have very low standards. I'm not sure they're literally on the floor though
I found it quite funny because very random sky sports f1
Haven't done any classic races for like
Multiple years I think at this point and then really randomly they put on a few the other night and I watched one
Which was the 2010 German Grand Prix, which is quite famous because that's where Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa
had the Ferrari team orders debacle and
Again, given they haven't done a classic race in like years. I think genuinely years
It is
Garbage the Grand Prix is a
Trocious, why are you putting this one on? Yeah of all the Grand Prix they could choose from and we've done many ourselves
There is a plethora of wonderful Grand Prix to watch throughout history. That's the one
I swear down apart from that team order thing. Nothing happens
It is rubbish when you said it was like
No, I'd be why at 2010 a lot of good races to go out. They didn't pick one
Well, hopefully the next one we have is a good one indeed
But we're also looking ahead to other races that are happening later this year little bit of an LB update
So our summer plans. We've got two Grand Prix that we're going to later on in the year firstly
British Grand Prix we're going to be there on the Sunday on race day. So that's the 5th of July
Hopefully if you go into the British GP, you already know what date it is anyway, but yes, we're going to be there on the Sunday
We'll announce a few plans late closer to the dates
Just in terms of doing a bit of a bit of a quick meet-up while we're there on the Sunday in terms of where and when that will be
But we'd love to say hello to you if you are at the British GP on that Sunday
So if you're just keep listening and we'll we'll announce some plans a little bit closer to the date
But that's not the only venue we're going to this year because we are also the following month going to the Dutch Grand Prix
Max Max Max super Max Max Max. Yeah, we're going full orange army. We're coming over to the Netherlands
LB takes on Europe proper
I've not been to the Netherlands before I'm very excited. Yeah excited. We're doing the full weekend, right?
We are doing the full weekend. We just love sprint weekend
So we had to go as soon as we heard it was a sprint weekend at Zanvo
But yeah, we're going to be there for the entire weekend
So 23rd of August is race day, but because we are there for the full weekend
We're looking to do something on the Thursday beforehand as well
So Thursday 20th, so that will probably be likely somewhere in Amsterdam
So if you'd like to let us know we're going to put a form in the description basically
You could just let us know whether you'd be
Interested in some drinks or a few few different options on there. Let us know
So we have a bit of an idea on on how many of you we might expect to see
And hopefully it's a lot of you because we love our Dutch fans
If it's only one of you, you're going to be getting a really intense couple of beers
Yes, um, and then for those at the track as well, we'll do something similar to what we said for Silverstone
And yeah, we'll we'll pick a place. We'll pick a time and we'd just love to say hello to you
Probably the best part of doing this show is actually
Meeting someone in real life that listens to this show. So if you're up for it, you want to come and say hello
It is the best bit. So please do. Uh, so we will be going to those two Grand Prix this year. Sadly, we won't be making an appearance
No
It's hard for us to say folks
We won't be making an appearance this year in in Austin, Texas for the united states gp
Which we've fallen in love with with austin over the last few years feel very at home feel very at home. Yes
So we say that with great resistance and I am holding back the tears
But it's it's a great opportunity for us this year to to get out some different different locations different parts of the world
Meet some meets more fans. We love meeting you. So, um, yeah, sadly, can't be a coda this year
But we are already looking at 20 27 plans. So, um, I was gonna say, uh, it's not the last the coach was seeing of of late breaking
Uh, coach just got damn
For the girl before we got rid of them for got got rid of late breaking boys. Yeah
Yes, so hopefully, um, that's covered absolutely everything in terms of those announcements
reminder of the dutch gp weekend if you are interested in seeing us on thursday the 20th
Fill in the form that is in the description to this episode really helps us out in preparation for that sort of thing. Thank you
Thank you very much indeed. Uh, let's crack on with the show and we're going to start today with a top five list
We're going to do a top five of the most dominant periods in f1 history. Um
A bit of an interesting one because we've left this quite
Vague in terms of how many years it might cover for a particular team
We're we're opening this up to the full extent of the the history of f1
So quite a few that we could go at we actually found that are the top four on our list of essentially ended up exactly the same
So we'll do a bit of a combined list
But we did at least have a bit of difference on what is number five
So we'll start there and that's where you highlighted the 1990s and williams
I will admit i'd completely forgotten to include williams on my list
But you're absolutely right too because five constructors titles in six years is very worthy of being a place on this list
Yeah, I mean williams obviously came into the sport in the 70s and it didn't take long for them to find success
Anyway, I think they picked up their first title. I've got my notes here. That's right folks. I make notes now
Without a joke in the 1980 and 1990, right? Um, and I believe they picked up nine constructors and seven drivers titles in only 16 years
So when you think about how new they were into the sport at the time
To win that many titles in a decade and a half was pretty special
And the drivers that they had in their roster at the time that were willing titles are also
Very special, you know, alan jones keke rosberg, of course alan prosp was there
Dr. Nige was of course very very important to us here damon hill and he's not here to disagree
But jack billner of course rounding off that set of championship winners
They were pioneers in technology
They were working with many different engine manufacturers at the time
And they're also going up against a real good liars to formula one
Which are the likes of McLaren who have one of the most famous dominance periods with some of the most famous driver line ups in
Formula one history at that same time period
So not one to be forgotten not one to be skipped at they were pretty mega in the the late 80s and early 90s
I think I forgot williams from my list for a couple of reasons firstly because the dominance was somewhat
Disturbed over time like i'm thinking benetton and michael schumacher in the mid 90s for example
But when you add up the number of championships they won they are very worthy of being on the list
The other reason why maybe it didn't immediately spring to mind for me was particularly the mid nine
Early to mid 90s, let's say when they were maybe at their most dominant
A lot of these other periods of dominance for a team you can almost assign one particular driver
Yeah, like vettel to red bull or hamilton to missades
With williams in the 90s you had essentially mansell won the title in 92
pros won it in 93 hill won it in 96
Villeneuve 97 like there isn't one driver that was synonymous with williams throughout all of those years
Yeah, five five titles in six years
But five different drivers to win those five titles in those six years, which is very very unusual for a formula one team
Of course only missing out on that one year in the middle due to schumacher of benetton
So magnificent period for them right at that start of the 90s
I'm surprised you forgot the but then quite fairly so because you brought back a little blast from the past
Yeah, I went a bit further back. I I went to
Cooper all the way back to the late 1950s and early 1960s for this one
Now as we were putting together our list and you'll see as we we go throughout this
There is more of a leaning towards
I'm going to say modern f1 in in terms of like the last maybe 30 years or so
And I think it's maybe been easier to dominate in the last maybe 30 years in f1 because in the 50s 60s and 70s
Like f1 is evolving at such a quick rate that it is very difficult and reliability is so bad as well
It's very difficult for one team to I don't know reign supreme for multiple years at a time
but I did want to include cooper in this so
The the team cooper probably
It's a long lasting legacy is that if you have a mini cooper folks, that's where cooper comes from the cooper car company
um, but they were a
On and off kind of entry throughout the 1950s all the way from 1950 to 1957 like they weren't
fully in the sport at this point
Largely uncompetitive, but when it came to I think it was 1957 they brought rear engine cars, which was a completely
revolutionary idea because at this point all of the competitive cars all winning cars had their engine in the front of the car
But the other teams were slow to adopt this because cooper with their rear engine cars
weren't competitive and even when cooper won their first race, which was at the beginning of 1958
There were circumstances around that where I think it was moss that won it, but it was there was strategy involved and
A lot of dnf some reliability. There were only 10 team
Sorry 10 cars that started that race that he won and I don't think any team actually took them seriously
until they won the monocoe gp later in that year and it was like oh
This might actually be the future and indeed it was jack brabham won two consecutive drivers titles cooper won two consecutive
constructors titles in 59 and 1960 pretty dominant in both of those years
and I just wanted to include it because
We're going to go through multiple teams in this list that are
These goliaths that you you said in terms of McLaren and ferrari and williams and long-lasting teams big legacies
This is what this was a small upstart team who managed to find a revolutionary idea quicker than everyone else
And sure after 1960 everyone else brought better versions of what cooper were doing
But that legacy of having that the engine in the rear of the car
It's sped up the evolution of f1. I think by at least a couple of years
We it's important to remember cooper for that. It's not even in f1 as well
Like this this extends to motor racing more generally like the indy 500
They were the first team to introduce a rear engine car at the the indy 500 and within five years of them doing that
First rear engine car wins the indy 500. So isn't it interesting?
I think it's never really divulged too much onto the normal road use of cars like obviously Porsche
Have a essentially aligned rear engine car. They're pretty much the most famous for doing so and yet
Your car my car
Cursor your car. It's it's all sat right at the front in front of you as you drive
It's very interesting that it's not being adopted widely
I actually uh, I go backwards everywhere. So I thought you were gonna say you pictures. I'm putting it in the boot anyway
Yeah, yeah, that's how I do it. Yeah
Uh number four now we're going to uh a more agreed list at this point
We're going to go with red bull here and specifically looking at 2010 to 2013
So that's four consecutive years where they won the drivers championship and the constructors championship
We're vettel winning all of those drivers championships. Um
I don't know sammy
I think it's easy to forget with red bull that they were only five years removed from even existing as a team
and this was like
I'm not saying they were a small outfit
But this was an energy drinks company trying to prove that they can mix it with these big
car manufacturers
I'm not sure until it happened whether they were taken 100 seriously
Well, I don't think they were taking 100 seriously not until I only think win it
But oh nine when I really started to to stick the competition on and the fact that toro
Rosso who is their sister team got the victory
First in a race before they did of course with a battle again in a 2008 in mongza in that horrible wet race
Who was it then they took over jaguar?
They took over jaguar who yeah before that was stewart
But yes, there you go
So it has a real formula one history to it and you know jaguar is a car manufacturer as I'm sure you all know
stewart was a well-known name of course throughout racing famously and
It's unusual not unusual to see a
Customer team so to speak you know a non manufacturer team to go out and win
We've seen that before williams. We just spoke about how proving clara misades just exactly as before that
You know it wasn't unusual, but all of these teams previously
Realistically, I either had a driver that was heavily related to them that had gone to win something or heavily related to
Or the automotive world in the first place
Red Bull had turned up bought out a team that was starting to struggle in terms of formula one to fund that and within five years
Who rocked up and creating this absolute monster of a car old perishing news monster in a conversation about red bull
Red Bull coming for us
Shoes what energy drinks at your own at your own pleasure. I guess
um
So this was a real turnout for the books the fact that not only had they gone ahead and become successful
They hang out done Ferrari McLaren, you know, they were beating the likes of huge global manufacturers
Who were involved in the sport for a long period of time that couldn't grasp these like toyota
Who had just left the year before their success who spent hundreds of millions of dollars on their car
And could not amount to anything BMW were involved, you know
These are collides of of automotive that could not achieve
What red bull who made cans of energy drink went on to achieve four years in a row and a vessel, of course
I think before the staffing has really reached his most recent success was the synonymous game with red bull
I think it's who you originally thought of when you thought red bull racing back driver their champion was sabastian better
Yeah, I always think of this era as adrian newies crowning moment as well because whilst he had had success elsewhere beforehand
At McLaren at williams in the early 90s that that we obviously touched on with the number five pick in this list
Um, but this these four years were really his years
Um and vettel and webber particularly in in 2010 were both competitive and then that almost gave that championship
I think gave vettel the the impetus to then go on to
That further success because if you think back to 2010 that car was very good in qualifying at 15 pole positions that year
But webber was very much in that championship fight just as vettel was to the point where an ultimate race in brazil
Webber was sorry. Vettel was leading webber was second, but webber was ahead in the championship
There were discussions in that grand prix should webber be let by
For the championship ultimately that doesn't happen and vettel gets enough points to win in Abu Dhabi
And win the title obviously
I just think that's uh, there's a very critical moment in f1 history because what if they had made that call to switch them over
I'm not sure
Sure, vettel would have listened or not. Who knows but if he had maybe webber wins the title and
And vettel doesn't gain that additional confidence then go off into
2011 2012 20 2011 of 13 in particular are so dominant
So dominant the ability that he has to just stretch away from webber
Who was as you mentioned such good competition for him in their first proper competitive year as teammates
Is almost left in the dust immediately, but you're right
It could have been three titles for vettel once a webber, but maybe it doesn't kick start it
Maybe it's to a piece it is interesting how in one result history could go down a completely different path
Yeah, it closing four on this one as well is just 2011 the canadian gp
I think is the number one sign to how dominant
Vettel and red bull were because in that race very dramatic race jensen button overtakes vettel on the last lap to win
The crowd goes absolutely mental for it, which is deserved because it was a thrilling finale
So what was a very long race?
But the only reason they get that reaction is because vettel was so dominant at this point that it was like
I think unfairly so to an extent but it was like
He was taken down by jensen button by someone else by another team
And that's why it got the euphoria that it did it also caused vettel to be the bad boy of formula one
Who was the ultimate villain? It's almost like
Formula one found the new german driver they didn't want to like because michael schumacher, of course only five years before that
Was just coming to the end of his dominant reign and vettel had kind of taken on that mantle
I think vettel was quite pleased you've taken on that mantle from michael schumacher as his hero
This is racing hero, but yeah, it was really interesting now
We love sebb. He's like the good guy of motorsport, right?
He's the guy that we all look to so it is interesting how the media can really paint that picture indeed
um
number three on the list
Alain prost hurt and senna mp4 4
Is that just the best combination of car and driver? We've ever seen
I don't know if it will ever get better than that. Maybe not like
I don't know maybe in like
Five years time let's say
I don't george russell is a five-time world champion and then max for stapling and george russell go into the same team in the
Mercedes that's the kind of levels we're talking about for being like you're that good individually
Now the machinery is that incredible and you're racing together in that machine
It's like playing f1 manager and you've just got unlimited funds to do whatever you want. That's how this occurred
It's insane. Yeah, they won. It wasn't just 1988 when they had the mp4 4 but they won for
consecutive constructors titles the first of which was with that mp4 4
115 out of 16 races in that season
And you could argue the only reason they didn't win the 16 out of 16 was due to chicken pox
Because tell the story. Well, the only race they didn't win
um
Etton senna, I believe this is true etton senna crashed into replacement williams driver whilst lapping him
Shlester, I think his name was who was only subbing in at williams because Nigel mansell dr. Nigel chicken pox, so
Classic dr. Move that is to pick up chicken pox. He must have been tending to many a poor patient
Of course, Nigel I'm sure was helping
I think the crazy thing about that dominant period where they had the four in a row as well
Is that it was only broken up for being eight in a row because of what pk was able to do in williams?
Yes, yeah before that it was louder picked up one and it was prost and prost again right before that
So it picked up an eight in a row, but it was seven in eight years. Yeah, pretty phenomenal
um
McLaren had a real choice to make in 1988 as well because they
We were in we were in the turbocharged era at that point
But we were heading back to naturally aspirated sort of v10 engines and there were a lot of
Uh, there was a lot of encouragement in the regulations for teams to do that a year early
McLaren decided still not to do that. They they wanted one more year with honda that had come in
With that v6 turbo and it worked brilliantly well for one year
And that also let them have an extra year's worth of development behind the scenes before introducing the naturally aspirated engine
And when they do that, it's great as well. So they played it very well. It was clever
It is funny to look back and see just how much of a difficult time mclaren they end up going through
In modern times after they had this period of dominance
I'm gonna hit you with one more stat about 1988. I'd love to hear it the number 28
Why is that significant to the 1988 season? I don't know. You tell me back. That's the number of laps mclaren didn't lead that year
Oh, my lord. Yeah
They they didn't lead 28 laps in 1988. Wow. I bet half of those are because they pity
Uh, or yeah retired as yeah as the case with um the italian gp, but yeah
That's just insane. There's a reason the mp4-4 is kind of a thing of legend
Indeed and the mp4-5 that followed it not too bad either not quite the same level, but I still take it
Yeah, I mean they still won pretty much 50 of the races. They ended with that car. So not too bad at all
Uh, let's take a quick break on this episode on the other side. We'll complete our list
Welcome back everyone number two on our list. We go to good ol ferrari
Look, you can't have a dominance list without a little mention of the boys in red and I say that actually
2020 to 2026
That's the one we're talking about
um
Yeah, I mean
It's tricky actually to speak about ferrari in a dominant fashion because actually
Apart from the bit that we're going to speak about
They haven't ever really been too dominant and before this period where shoemaker, of course kick starts ferrari's dominance at the turn of the millennium
It'll be 21 years before they actually take a title beforehand with joey schecter in 1979
You know, they haven't won two million races in that period either
They never really got a sniff at being the top dogs
The likes of begatting have come out of beating them mclaren williams
You hang others have all come along and beating them handedly time and time again
And finally after michael schumacher went to a struggling ferrari after being you know
The top dog in a car that maybe shouldn't have allowed him to be the top dog. Wow finally
Come on some of those performances in that begatting especially in uh in 95. You think how's he done that? How has he done that?
um
And then finally it clicks and they bring in the right person out such as wasp wrong ish on top are there and it just delivers these five seasons of
Impossible impossible brilliance, you know, they are almost invincible in comparison to others
Yeah, I think people often forget the struggle that ferrari went to to get to this
dominant period it's not just the
The 21 years between schecter and schumacher
It's also the amount of near misses they had in those first couple of schumacher years like 97
Obviously schumacher's competing for the title going into the last race of the season and as i'm sure harry would say
Vilnerv crashes into schumacher
More accurately the other way around
98 he's in with a chance going into the last race of the year versus hacken and and 99
You know Irvine's in with a chance but only let's face it probably because schumacher's out for most of that season due to
The leg injury he he suffered at the british gp
So they had a couple of real near misses and they did win the constructors title in 99 as well
But as soon as the 2000s rolled around those five years
A couple of them aren't massively dominant particularly 2003 like that one was close, but you look at
2001 he wins the title schumacher wins the title by 58 points
2002 sounds small now
Yes, but then it was blooming huge
Yeah, I would say adjusted for inflation. That's probably not far off 150 points
Yeah, it's five or six race wings comfortably. Yeah
You look at 2002 as well
Still the only season ever where a driver has finished on the podium in every single race every single grand prix. Yeah
I mean before
back 1999 championship constructed championship they picked up
They only had nine world titles throughout the whole history of formula one and they almost doubled it
In that period, you know, that's how dominant it suddenly became for them
I say they only had nine that's feeling incredible. That's not bad. But you've got to remember that they had nine between
1950 and 1979 and then they can't have anything until this 1999 constructed and the 2000 actual drivers for schumacher
So it was a big old gap. They had to fill I guess what we're just about to come around to another 21 year drought
Almost for ferrari. So give it a couple of years. Maybe we'll see history repeat itself
We're getting there. We're starting to get to the point now after
Doing a quick maths, but
We're getting our first driver on the grid this year in arvid limblad who has not been alive for a ferrari drivers championship win
Like that's where we're at now. Yeah kimmy n07 that was the last time they tasted your proper success
Even then that was by the skimmer their teeth
It sure was
Yeah, well a great era though for ferrari like when you win as schumacher did in this is 2002 very specifically
When you win a drivers championship after the french grand prix
You've had a pretty good year
Like I know that we don't we didn't at that point have as many races like in in asia in october for example, but
To win a to win a season in france
I think yeah, I think you dig it in something like 60% of the season. Yeah, you know if you're going to put it into percentage terms
But they haven't quite claimed number one on our list because that goes to
Mercedes and we're not talking about 2026. We're talking about 2014 to maybe about 2020
I feel like the longevity of this is what has at least for me
Separated it out like this is just
almost one long set of regulation of dominance
I mean they also won the constructors in 21, right? I mean, yeah, sure. They won. Yeah, yeah
They weren't quite dominant obviously with it being close of red bull
But as a manufacturer they won any other one there. So
We've watched formula one for a while now, you know, consciously I've been watching formula ones
It's probably about 99 2000 where I can actually remember the pictures on the screen properly
This felt like the biggest step for a certain team to make impure dominance
I've seen in formula one even bigger than red bull in the
You know the 10 to 13 seasons. It was the engine that did it for them
It was entirely self-built. They understood everything they needed to and it's so quickly
It's so obviously came down to only two drivers
But it was so dominant
They helped every other customer team that they were giving agents to
To also become so much more dominant over all the other midfield teams they were racing against
We saw the likes of williams leapfrog all the way to like the top two or three regularly
Force india who are racing in uh, Mercedes engines, right? They they take a massive step forward as well
They were I mean very much not involved
beforehand
It was a real shift for so many teams because they were using Mercedes and of course Mercedes themselves absolutely
capitalized
And and just run away with it year after year until 17
Where we start to see a little bit of competition with ferrari who once again
Very quickly dropped the ball and then 18 which is almost as good
And then lewis hamilton decides to go super sighing and just become the best guy of all time
And then 18 1920. It's just a lewis hamilton playground at that point. Yeah. I mean in particular
It's the first three years for me 14 15 16. They're just they scored over 700 points in all three of those seasons
And if you add up every one everyone who's not Mercedes add up all their wins from those three seasons and you get eight
Eight up about 63 64
Yeah, and then rosberg and ableton have won absolutely everything else
Yeah, ricardo won a few races vettel won a few races, but those first few years were just ridiculous
There's a reason why we voted 2015 is one of the worst seasons in modern formula. It's it's no slight on Mercedes
They were just too good
I would also say about Mercedes in the way the dominance ended because you're right
They won the constructors title in in 21 even if they didn't win the driver's title that year
And there were a number of reasons why it came to an end this this period of dominance. Verstappen is included in that list
Nui is included in that list. But what is also included in that list?
Red Bull starts to poach
Mercedes employees like they did a couple of years before you heard these big stories of red bull
You know go out and steal there were stories of hogs of employees moving because they were offering them huge pay packets
The animals going on to know as arc like they were going to buy to buy department
Yeah under under the cover of darkness with massive bags of money under their arms red bull did the only thing they could
They bought out the talent and it works. Yeah, I mean no shade at red bull by the way like that's play the game
um
You know there was a real chance that the next period for red bull also could have been closer being on this list as well
Because they then of course pick up a period of actual dominance
So we have that Verstappen season in 23 where you would put that up there with the mp4-4 as a singular season being that incredible
100 um, so that's our top five list. Um
Number of different ways we could have gone with this. So I'm sure there are going to be
Some periods of dominance that we haven't included
Certainly Ferrari in the mid 70s was one that I considered for this list red bull more recently that you've just mentioned as well
So let us know what your top five would have looked like. Let's move on to
something I wanted to chat about regarding
Uh upgrades that we're going to see from teams over the next few races because see we haven't had f1 in
a few millennia at this point
Star Wars intro rolls. Yes
One team that is specifically targeting an upgrade for miami is is racing bull
So we use this as an example, but this is indicative of other teams as well
They were going to have an upgrade that took place at the Bahrain GP
Obviously wouldn't have made much sense to do that anymore. So that's now arriving at the miami gp
But they've got another upgrade that's coming at the canadian gp
So they've almost they're they're going to have an alan permain their team principal has said this
They are going to have an upgrade that is on the car for one race
Yeah, and how do you go that works?
I just think it's going to be a really interesting one like how
This is how racing bulls are kind of dealing with it
But how do these other teams deal with you know a couple of races where they might well have introduced upgrades
But there might be another package that's coming in another races time
Yeah, these two races that have gone missing have come at a really pivotal area of a new set of regulations
You know the developments at the start of a new set of regs where you've actually got running time track time
You can see direct analytics of the reporting of what's coming on through the track time
It's so valuable that this is where we're going to see those engineers backing their factories
Producing and researching at a huge and rapid speed and bar rain the place where they are most comfortable
Would have been an obvious kind of embedding ground for new development because you've got a direct comparison
Between your car in preseason testing that was your kind of original your foundation
And then your car four races later, which it would have been which would have had a few upgrades on it
You could go right we are now one second a lap faster or we are exactly the same and they've done nothing
Which you know it can happen
So it is interesting to hear that quite a few teams are looking to bring upgrades
I know ferrari are bringing the macarena wing to miami get in there
Looking forward to seeing him every time that we see it go open and it's not just them
There are a number of other teams red bull are looking to bring a whole new package as well
I wouldn't be surprised if we seem to say he's bringing something mclaren definitely will
Usually with the fact that it's a sprint weekend. You would sit there and go
Or it's a bit risky. It's a little bit risky to sit there and try and bring upgrades
We've got one test session and you don't know what to bring
We said that about the macarena wing at china when ferrari brought that there
They used that as part of the only practice session and I remember we were like
Why are they doing this? They're not going to use it for the rest of the weekend
They've used up the only practice session they have on something that isn't on the car
If it goes wrong, then what do you do about it?
You've got no development time to sit there and understand how to adjust the car and the the setup and the feedback to know
Ah, it's drivable. It's quick. It's slow. You have no idea
You're going into a qualifying session and then into a race very very quickly
It will be the same at miami, but it's almost
Such a new fresh situation
They've kind of got to take the risk
I think they've kind of got to go out there and start throwing things on the car because if you do get it right
You might throw yourself up the bridge. You might find that racing balls, for example
And suddenly the third fastest car if they really get it, right?
We know how good the engine in theory is if the car is stable and the upgrades are good
They can really project themselves into the points. I think it proves as well
With racing balls in the position they're in they're currently in a fight with a red ball
But I don't think that will last but they're in a fight with
Alpine and Haas and the maybe Audi as well if they get their act together
it shows how
Critical each and every race is and how they cannot afford to drop points even at one weekend out of 22
That they are going to bring this upgrade for one Grand Prix because there was an argument to say
Let's scrap this and we're just going to put full development on the upgrade that's coming at canada
And we'll just live with what we've had for the rest of the year at miami
But clearly there's such a fight in this midfield to get points that they can't afford to do that
Yeah, I do think that they are losing valuable track time if they don't put it on in miami
as I said, usually I will be very much against bringing upgrades to a weekend like this, but
You losing a whole weekend is disastrous. They've already lost two
They need to make sure that what they're doing is going in the right direction waiting another whole racing weekend
It just puts you on the back foot. Um, and of course canada is going to be a sprint as well
So we've got two consecutive sprint weekends coming out of this extended break. That's going to be very interesting for these teams
I think f1 and the fia have kind of answered that to an extent
I don't know if you saw the news that the one and only practice session at miami is going to be extended to 90 minutes
So it's going to be an hour and a half from 60. That's a 90 minute practices, is it? But I won off I think just for
For the mitigating circumstances, which I understand. I know
Yeah, yeah, it's again new regulations so many changes
It does make a lot of sense, especially with the safety changes that they're making as well
We've obviously seen the rule changes come through in this gap. Yeah, it is sensible to give an extra 30 minutes for drivers
Just to really adjust
How do you think um, how do you think Mercedes will tackle upgrades?
I think they're going to have to still be aggressive with it
They've got a great lead at the moment, uh, but there's already been some changes that have affected them
Um, you know, of course they have altered the little trick that Mercedes and red bull were playing when it came to qualifying
which meant that they couldn't um
Adjust the battery essentially to ensure they got better propulsion at the end of the previous warm-up map to be faster
Going on to the the actual qualifying map. That's been
banned so to speak
But also these changes that have come through in the regulations are going to affect everything whether good whether bad
I think actually this might benefit the saying is it going to go properly?
But with the changes they've got to adjust we saw with kimmy anting alley. He starts when I deal with George Russell
He also made mistakes
They will want to bring upgrades to make sure they continue the the gap to the cars behind
I don't think they can really afford to rest on their laurels. I think they've got to be aggressive
I think based on toto wolf's comments as well
I don't think they are because toto wolf has been
saying a few things about
aduo or
Able recently
He's had a few comments about that and
See that the idea there is that if you don't have the the best engine on the grid you're you're able to
Uh, keep be given the opportunity to catch up
But he's very much saying that there's only one
manufacturer on the grid that's struggling right now
Honda
That's where the help should go and not towards like a performance boost in effect for
Red Bull or ferrari. Um, so you can tell toto wolf's already thinking like I have this advantage
But there are multiple things at play that could see that disappear
And give it four races and that new restriction for the compression ratio comes into play
So they do not have a lot of time left where all these little benefits that they found out are slowly going to dwindle away
Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I know some people think this one this season is a is a done deal
And it might be that might be the way it goes
But there's a lot of moving parts that still need to be answered yet if you enjoy f1
This is just going to be a bit of a different season
And I think you need to learn to try and enjoy it for
What technicality teams can bring will we see a real change in the performance halfway through the season?
It could still be an exciting season yet
Just feel very different formula one way and I get that doesn't mean that hey
You like this a bit because of the fun on track that you want it to be like this every year
But you can still try and enjoy it for what it's providing
Indeed, uh, should we take another break on this episode on the other side?
We asked you for some uh for some questions to have some answers. That's what we're going to do
Ah, yes answering said questions. Yes, we provide the answers to the questions
It would be weird if we just asked for the questions. Do they never use them? Yeah, q no way
No, hold the hold the a just full stop q and
q and q
Everyone back and back the people that brought you back
Another viral game shows
Welcome back everyone. Uh, thank you so much to everyone who completed the form that we asked about on Wednesday's episode
Gold gold stars for all of you because we asked for some questions about constructers very specifically that we're going to spend
the next couple of segments answering and
Well done lb collective because you were all quite serious
I want a chance to be silly. That's got fun. I appreciate, you know, there were still some
ridiculous comments looking at you salami man, but
What do you mean a man called salami man would not make a ridiculous comment?
but for the most part
All of the most the questions were actually quite serious ones that we'll get into so um and a good range of questions across the constructers too
So let's start with a question on
Start with a question on red bull. Shall we
Do you think red bull slash raising bulls is slowly crumbling down and are going to pull out of f1 in the next four to five years?
Oh interesting question. I do think they're crumbling. I think that's a very valid observation
I think they are nowhere near the dominance that they would just saw from them
Can I ask a further question on this? Uh, you say they're crumbling
Have they crumbled?
Oh, I mean, are we at the bottom of the the valley at this point?
I wouldn't say we're at the bottom. We're at the very bottom. Uh max the stop and going this season
Fair show. Yeah, that might be where it really hits rock bottom for them, but they're definitely on a real low
It has crumbled away. Do I think they can pull out a formula one?
No, no, I think this is now the powerhouse of red bull marketing
I think they've built so much around formula one now
It's obviously it's an extreme sports company with that sells energy drinks now. That's what red bull is
So to to leave the fastest most high octane sport in the world
Doesn't suit their agenda. They're still making tongues. They're still advertising their products everywhere
And even if max for snapper does leave it will still be a very viable area
Especially with the deal with forward and whatnot. There's a lot of money going on here
They will not just walk away because it's a tough time. They've had tough times before
Yeah, I cannot see this team leaving because of that very reason of
They aren't here to sell cars. They are here very purely as a marketing exercise
And it would just be completely backwards to go through the 2010s
We're at times f1 wasn't massively popular compared to what it is now to go through that to get to a point now where
It is so popular around the world
Whether that stays the same who knows but it's incredibly popular and incredibly well watched
Why would they why would they go away from that now? It's like buying low selling high but the other way around
You know, it doesn't really make sense to to do that sell so buy buy while the shares are high
No, that's watch them go down
And then I'll leave when my investment is that is it's worst
I'm less certain about what they'll do with racing balls
I wouldn't be surprised if there's movement on that in the next five years. I'm not sure but I think what frustrates me about racing balls is
Let's take Porsche right there were conversations in the last few years that they might come in. I'm a big Porsche fan
I love you know that
No, there was a real serious conversation around are they hogging a space on the grid a very limited and premium area in the world of sport
Should they be made to sell to a manufacturer such as Porsche who?
Think about the attention that it would bring to have someone of that caliber join the grid as a full manufacturer
Is it going to be less than racing balls? I argue no
I argue they bring way more in terms of fan base money appeal
Marketing value then a sister team that can't ever win a race realistically is going to bring
so
I wouldn't be shocked if rebel eventually
Come to realize that they have to give that spot up the fio make them give that spot up
Let's move on to a question about
Aston Martin and Honda which of course continues to be a big talking point in the sport
We've actually got a few questions about Aston Martin, but they they do have their own merits
So we'll tackle maybe the biggest one here
Which is with all the chat around the gutting of the Honda f1 engine program
How feasible is it that they are able to produce any meaningful improvements this season?
Are they aggressively hiring slash rehiring?
Is Laurence going to deal with the delay and failure to deliver love the podcast keep breaking late?
I like that a bit a lot. Yeah, that's that's why you've been you've been read out quite honestly
Same social. Yeah, what's the question?
Um, Honda this is so tough isn't it? They're so far behind they are so far behind if this
Which sounds a bit like the noise you make when you don't feel very well after you've had a few drinks
Yes, that's what that sounds like. I don't know. I wouldn't know what that feels like. No, gosh. No, I've never had an alcoholic
Life. I'm a very good boy
Yeah, I mean even if that is given to them in spades
It's going to take a very long time
I think for them to be able to match one the development of the engine and to put that on an even keel
So even you know the Ferrari engine for example, which seemingly is the third fastest out of kind of Ford
Mercedes and Ferrari out of those three
it's then got to match the
Seriousness in tanks of the design that new years created which is another
Issue all in itself and we've seen that the engine doesn't work properly with the shape of the car
So I think they're having to deal with the issues twofold whether they're having a mass hiring
I've not heard a lot about this. I've not seen
you know
engineers and mechanics and and
Brilliant people around Formula one being nicked from Ferrari or from Ford or from Mercedes
Seems to be very standard if they're not recruiting Lawrence is going ahead full on with conscription at this point because
That man will not settle for less than championships at some all of Japan will work on this engine
If it takes that that man to a win. That's that's what Andy Cowell's doing out there. He's recruiting. He's out there, isn't he?
Is that the streets with propaganda trying to get people in he's not allowed back until uh until they actually produce something meaningful
50,000 workers in the uh industry. I cannot say the problem is
They could make meaningful improvements this year. They could
And it will still get them nowhere. That's how far behind they are like they could improve quite significantly
Let's say that across the whole season they find a second
That gets them to Williams like that's not getting them anywhere theory will have also taken steps forward, right?
I i'm very happy if i'm wrong on this because i'd like to see a london competitive again, obviously
I don't think this any of this is solved this year
I I actually would be shocked if they make a shock move elsewhere
It's that bad. Is it aston martin? Yeah. Well, actually that leads us very nicely on to another question about aston martin, which is
Uh should aston martin pull off a brawn gp and go with Mercedes power again
Are they able to break their agreement with honda due to lack of performance? So
They can't go with Mercedes right now
Because based on Mercedes being
Yes, of course, they're fully stocked up. Yeah, they they have enough
They have themselves, of course, and then McLaren williams and now alpine remember. So that's the four
You're only allowed for any one point if very they could take an engine from Ferrari
If there's an option, um, they can also take a forward engine, of course
If that's something that the rebel power group are willing to give up
um, but yeah, it's uh
All they could go out and find themselves something new in the couple of years time and just bear with it
And do the same thing again now that feels risky, of course
they could very much end up being in the same spot again if that's what they do but, um
I wouldn't be shocked if there is change if if they have set hondus and performance related kpi's that they are so far from missing
I wouldn't be shocked if we see a switch
Yeah, I mean the thing is it can't really get much worse
Like they are so far off the pace right now that they have almost got nothing to lose
We don't know understandably what that contract looks like like that. They might be very locked in for a while
They might be it might be an easy case of getting out could be either of those. It's probably something in the middle
Like you say Mercedes that isn't an option right now unless Mercedes was to give up one of their teams
But there's no why would any of their three customer teams go elsewhere at the moment
It's
Audi you're going to get an Audi Audi Aston Martin sounds fun
Sure. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean Mercedes still have some form of relationship with Aston Martin
I don't think they're going to be very happy about that
um
I think the problem the the mat the engine manufacturer here the power unit is a big problem
It's not the only problem that car is slow. Exactly. Yeah, and that's the point
I was trying to make where even if the car the engine was improving
Does it actually fit with the way the car wants to be developed anyway? It's not just a problem with power
It is a problem of fit design synergy. There's a lot going wrong here. I I think I would probably lean towards
Aston Martin almost
taking the medicine and and
Long term out. Yeah, because we have at least got recent proof that Honda can do it in that they started the last
regulation cycle
atrociously
It took a while, but they were winning at the end of that with red bull
I think maybe you just have to
It took seven years for them to show actual proper regular success
Fernando Alonso can't do seven years Ben. I think he can and he will believe that
How old would it be 52?
Uh, but in Alonso years, that's actually 27. Oh, yes, of course. I forget he's only 20 years old now
Just hang his birthday. Happy birthday. Happy 20th. He gets younger every year. Such a young father. Yes
Let's move away from
Aston Martin. Let's go to
Let's go to a very quick question just about all constructors
If you could have any constructor avert to an old name, which one would it be? I do miss the Jordan name on
Oh, yeah, I've got a lot of love for Jordan
Um, we're talking about I suppose the team itself going back to our previously owned team name, right?
I think we're just talking about the name itself here rather than any logistics around how that would happen, but
I mean that makes sense. Um, I'd also take Jaguar. I think that's cool
I like any old school proper manufacturer as well. You know, I've got a lot of time for that
I'd love Porsche to come back in as I mentioned
I may of course have done engines before a long long time ago now
Yeah, Jordan is the one that sticks out to me. Maybe Ben is in as well. Like, yeah, wouldn't mind seeing
Why not? Um, hey Alpine just go back to Beniton. It's that's where
Honestly, it's better. I don't know what it is about Alpine. It's just it's not cool
Let's focus on a question about Williams. Um, because we're talking about
Aston Martin
You know, actually ironically, it's it's not a very long question at all. Um, but similar to Aston Martin
I guess we're talking about recovery here. What is a realistic recovery point for Williams in order to save daddy vows as a reputation?
Uh, a realistic recovery point
Cars regularly fighting for surface level points again
I would say if they end this season and and both Science and Alpine are fighting regularly for between
I think 11th and that's every race. Yeah, I mean it I have not lowered my expectations for Williams
They built them up so high as this being their era that
I can't really sit there and go. Oh, yeah, you're fine. If you get back to being 12th and 13th every race
That isn't good enough. It's just not good enough. So for me
It's gotta be points pretty pretty regularly the fact that you're losing this battle to Haas and Alpine and even Audi
Of course who have got so many changes. It isn't good enough
Yeah, the first point of order for them is to just get a car that is quick enough to be on the back of that midfield
Because right now that they're not really that they've almost lands
No, and they've got to a point at least and it is a small step like with Carlos signs
He is able to keep an Alpine behind him and Alpine is very much in that midfield battle
So they've kind of proven that if they're ahead
They can do enough to stay ahead
But right now they do not have the pace to catch up to other cars like that's just not there
So that's the first step is finding that once you do that
We're quite high on Science and Alpine as a duo. I'm pretty confident that they can get something done, but
They need a car to work with
So driver lineup's got the problem. No given machine that actually I'm just so tired of Williams being so far down the order
I'd love to see a Williams regularly fighting for podiums or at least top fives. You know, I'm just it's been so long
It's been so long since they were even a remote threat
I think there needs to be a couple of races at the end of this year where they are the best midfield team
That's fair. I don't think that's unrealistic in terms of if they really could shed this weight
I think there's probably some good parts to this car
It doesn't even need to be like
The last six races in a row that needs to be the case
But just one or two instances where they can prove that they are at least where they were last year
Because that then gives Williams something to work with and maybe confidence that
Vows is is still the right man for them moving forward because
I also don't want to see vows go the wrong way. I really like him. He seems like a great guy
I really enjoy how his culture building it would be a shame if they've got this wrong that we lose vows at the top of a team
Man's got a job in media if he if he does leave though. He says sorted. No doubt
He could be a guest on this show daddy bells anytime
Are you going to do as cool daddy bells? Give us a rick. Uh, let's take a quick break on the other side
We'll uh, we'll answer some more questions
Play some more cues. We might provide some more answers. Maybe
We had a couple of questions as you would expect about Ferrari. Um, first question is this
What actually is the point of Ferrari?
There's more to it than that
Take away the Schumacher years and they have won drivers title since 1979 as we referenced earlier on in the episode
I'd say they're living on past glory, but there's not even much of that to go around
How dare you besmirch can be right in this game
Well, that it's that one plus the Schumacher years and then you are back at 1979 like it's
They get a lot of love do Ferrari they really do. I'm walking. I'm walking. I'll put that past them
We spoke about how they only had nine championships before the 1990 one. It's impressive
Yeah, how they can garner such
Love respect and loyalty and yeah for something that for an hour longer younger viewers have never seen Ferrari even remotely closely successful
It's like being nostalgic about Grimsby town football club. It's like
There's nothing to be nostalgic about. What will we do in there?
Yeah, I think I think Grimsby had very much moved on or forgotten
What went on there you gotta be you gotta be over 20 years old to consciously remember any form of success for Ferrari now
Yeah, it's a long time
I I just I understand the question though because they are right in saying like Ferrari do hold this place as like
The oldest team in f1, which is true that they were there from the beginning in 1950 unlike any other team currently on the grid
But even though they had some limited success in the in the 50s
Didn't do much in the 1960s
A bit more success in the 70s, but like this isn't a team that has won like
double digit like drivers championships in multiple decades like this
It's impressive that they've got this nostalgia around them honestly. Yeah, um
Fair play to ferrari is accompanying themselves. I think I hate the word but for building more aura than anyone else
And they do have a presence both, you know, you see a Ferrari on the road
Everyone stops I was behind one going to work the other day
And I was like, I don't want anyone to overtake me because I guess what I talked about
See I want to be behind this Ferrari. I want to see it. I wish you were so close to the point
You went into the back of it then I destroyed it. Yeah, and I've had to sell my home. Um, please don't hate so I can live
Green screen is great though
So I think I kept
I'm actually freezing cold. Um
But I wish all the long drives like that when they don't want to pass the Ferrari because they like looking at the back a bit so much
I am surprised that they've been able to garner this level of respect for this long
The next question, um, which is far shorter and far more difficult to answer because if anyone had the answer to this
We wouldn't be in this spot. How do you fix ferrari?
Um, I've seen it before
I think I think a bog statement actually what we did this show
I think back in what 2020 maybe or I said ferrari would have wing a title this decade
And I think it's because of the culture of ferrari
There is you hear about it last year, you know, well, we've got the car so the drivers should be should be winning
No elking
That's not how it works. You clearly don't have the car. Do you elking?
um elkin
So
Build the best car go out and steal all the best engineers and the best engine manufacturers
They're not many factors creators. Sorry developers
Put them in a mega team do what you did in the early 2000s in the 90s and build that team and it just feels like they're so
They must want to be homegrown
They will be so Italian that they almost seem to close their doors to outsiders and look I'd really respect your pride
Love you. I should answer them fair play to you
But it's it's no slight going out there and just grabbing the best talent from around the world to make sure you really are at the top
Of your game. I do think they need to open the doors a little bit. I'm not saying like full
Autocracy is the way to go
shockingly, but if you look at
Mercedes it feels like toto wolves team
Red Bull certainly felt like it was christian horners team
For for better and for worse sadly
But if you look at ferrari
It doesn't feel like fredversers team and that's not a knock on fredverser himself
That's a knock on the way ferrari do things where they won't let him
Run the team as i'm sure he would like
Yeah, you you get these comments from john elkin midway through a season which are just completely unhelpful
Where it's essentially a criticism of the drivers
There's there's no point in that and this interference from from senior personnel
Always backfires and it just seems to be they they keep hitting themselves in the face over and over again
It's like they had bonotto. They had a river bernay. They've now got fredverser
These are talented individuals. I'm not saying they're all perfect
But at some point you have to look in the mirror and say surely there's something about the way that we're running this
The culture that we're instilling that is the issue not who we're putting in as team principal
I think that's the first thing many to do fully agree and uh elkin if you look at the
Successful individuals around formula one now so many of them came from ferrari
Why didn't you retain so many of these the staff at stellar was ferrari?
You know bernato now oudie which is growing was ferrari, of course
And these aren't the only two, you know even mechis who's now developing his own team at redbull was ferrari
You have such a great pool of talent. Why aren't you retaining it?
Why aren't you building on it and developing it and using it and creating a loyalty where
They are as committing a charlotte claire into driving for you because you seemingly can't do that
So, uh, yeah, I'd be intrigued to see if they could adapt and change that culture
I appreciate we've already had a question about redbull
But a question more about current redbull rather than in a few years time
If redbull's engine is as good as the rumors are saying is it reasonable?
They could turn their car around to compete for wins this year or is that more of a couple year development to change that much on the car?
It's a fair question, isn't it?
I mean, I think having the right engine is really core. It's a formula one success
Rarely do you see a team go out and win a championship without having
On par if not the best engine available to them
I think maybe actually it was redbull previously in their first series of winning the championships where maybe they didn't have the best
Outright engine in aerodynamically it was new his car that saw them go on to win those championships
I think it's going to take more than this year even with the engine being as good as it is
I think it's going to take a bit more development. Plus, there's so many moving parts internally with redbull with person l
And so many changes. I just don't think they've got the efficiency and the understanding of their internal system yet
So produce a car that can overcome the troubles. It's currently going through. I agree with that
I don't love what's coming out of the redbull camp this year in that
With mclaren's a good comparison here. So mclaren haven't started this year anywhere near as well as they would have liked
They're not at the same pace they were when they won constructors championships in back-to-back years, of course
But there has been an underlying optimism. They will get there lando norris has said on multiple occasions
I think we can win a race later this year whether it's multiple races or not
Who knows but he said we can win later this year
There does seem to be a sense of we're not there at the moment
But I think we can get there and they make a podium immediately. Sure two drivers finish a race. We're going to get some podium
redbull
I don't love the vibes at the moment in terms of
Hadja and Verstappen's criticism about the chassis Verstappen having something of an upgrade in japan that doesn't work at all
I think they are a bit stuck about where to go with this car
And I think miami and canada
Might tell us more about redbull than any other team on the grid as to what they're going to be able to achieve or indeed not achieve this year
I think that'll be quite radical. I wouldn't be surprised. We see some obvious
Visual differences on the red bull over the next few races. Yeah, we could well see that
Shall we go to haas next?
How long until haas sells to toyota for a full toyota gr team?
Um, if I'm going to talk personal once
I hope end of this season. Let's go with disrespect to haas as an outfit
They are the smallest team on the grid. They have struggled to achieve
Anything above mediocrity since they joined formula one now a decade ago. And I don't mean that disrespectfully
They just have very low funding. They have a very small team
Jean haas doesn't like to meet anyone new so the teams get smaller and smaller every year
Um, by the way, it's a running joke for anyone. It's a rain joke. I'm sure he actually doesn't mind new people
But at this point
Haas has many friends, new and old. Yeah, we don't even smile when we say it anymore
It's just like he doesn't like new people as if it's a fact. It's a genuine criticism now
a genuine criticism
Um, well done for explaining that to any of you. Let's just I just
I think they've run their course and I have there's no disrespect to haas
I think they're a really plucky little, you know, fighter who turn up and they really do try and I think kamatsu's really
Cooks and produce something brilliant. It's just never going to be enough
They never going to be able to go out there and actually scale themselves up the grid
Someone like Audi you could see in five years time. If I said to you, how do you want a championship in five years time?
You go, oh, it's got impossible. Yeah, fair enough. You know same mechanic
You go, they got that engine in the car start picking up podiums. Yep fair enough. It's definitely possible
Our heart's ever going to achieve that
I've never won a race. They've been here a decade
Come on. It's the bad you can do it
I want toyota in the sport because I think they fluffed their lines last time and I think with a new
bigger interest
They could be great. I
I'm going to start my answer by saying I don't know
Which is great
I think we'll learn a lot more later this year in terms of the next set of regulations because I think that will determine what toyota do
Like if if the new regulations are announced and they're announced for a particular year probably 2030 or 2031
And it aligns with what they're doing as a car company
I can see them even if it's not making a move this year
I can see them starting to make moves for for something in a couple of years time
But I think it depends on what that announcement is if indeed there is an announcement this year
We know Stefano Domenicali has said he'd like to
Get that sorted in 2026 to know what we'll be doing in five years time. There's no guarantee that will actually happen
So I think that's going to that's going to be where the answer comes from
Yeah, very fair very logical if I was a betting man, which I'm not
I would put a fiver on toyota being here in 2030
And as we know you are homeless and do not have any money right now. So that means a lot to me
Yeah, I can't sell the green screen on my back
If it doesn't happen now, there will be no green screen left next week. That's gone
Um quick question on Audi and Cadillac because they've been rolled into the same question very helpfully
Realistically speaking, where do you see Audi and Cadillac finishing this season?
What should their goals be respectively and how can they best meet them?
Cadillac just to continue understanding what's going on. Don't lose half your car in the Grand Prix
Which I think is a very solid bit of advice
Um, I just try and take strikes towards the midfield. I don't think they'll catch anyone
I think they'll be behind all year
Understand your learnings and development for next year
Audi on the other hand so out it starts
And I genuinely think if you can start scoring one car in the points most grand prix 1.2 points
They've done well
Then you were very positive about where they were at the start of the season
I think realistically they could start to fight with
A head of racing balls and regularly with Haas and Alpine if they could get the development
Correct and get the car started properly
Yeah, I with Audi I'm still fairly bullish on them
I think they can get p5 this year if everything goes well for them
I am going to assume Red Bull at least get their act together enough to to get p4
But I think p5 is up for debate with them and Alpine and Haas and
I think they could they could end up there. They're not that far. They look further behind them what they are
I'm I'm fairly strong about that because they don't start the race at the same time as everyone else
That's a problem, which as you've identified if they can fix it and it is big if
That could go a long way in helping what they're doing this year Cadillac
Does not matter where they finish this year if it's 10 it could be 11th. It could be 10th
I'd be very surprised if it's not one of those two positions
Does not matter which one it is as long as the car goes forward. I mean that development wise
That's a struggle for some teams sometimes
We've just spoken about and it doesn't stay stagnant. That's a positive year
Yes, I would agree with that. Let's do one final question
Which is a bit more of a general question rather than about one in particular very intrigued by this one
Should every team declare for a nation formally to encourage fans to back the local team rather than just backing a team because they have your favorite driver
Now, we know a lot of teams are a british based
Sort of in the selfies having a b11
Yes, uh, at least have some presence there, but we know for example that
Alpine is a french company, but based on they're not doing their engines anymore
They are almost entirely operating out of the uk now
Have some Cadillac have bases in the us and the uk red bulls another good opportunity of that sort of austrian slash british
Heritage and now in us with their engine does there need to be a little bit more in terms of
What the question was referring to here a bit more? I don't know nationality around these teams
I see where the question is coming from it creates that tribalism a little bit
Which you know, I think can be very positive for sport
You see it happen all the time in in our football in soccer, for example, right?
You know, you get this kind of thing. I'm a new castle fang. I'm a diehard fang
I like to get all up in arms about it and have a laugh and be like our bagger off
We're better. We're not but we're better than you and you know, it goes vice versa
It builds a lot of relationships and fun and interest and rivalries all good things for sport
I do not think that transcends into formula one
I do not think having nationalities declared for four teams is a good thing one
You will actually I think create the opposite effect where you almost exile
Most of the globe because there's only 11 teams and as we've just mentioned the majority are in the uk
Yeah, not ideal for a start
Secondly, I just think that formula one at first. I don't really care about what seem to be british
I'm not doesn't bother me personally. Um formula one is a global sport
What if we're priding ourselves on being we are proud to have people from australia japan the us south america europe africa
Whatever it might be all involved in some capacity in this sport
I do not want to become
Closed off or closing our doors because actually you go. Oh well
I was in the sage van and I'm from you know, um
India well, I can't do that now because um, they're the son of a german and that well, I don't really stand
Care about germany. Sorry. You know, and that might happen. You might end up losing viewers. So I'm not here for it
I don't need it. Yeah, I'm not fussed about this either like genuinely what would your local team be if you were in australia like
Like geographically what actually classifies as the local team to australia
Toyota join is that sure that would what wins now though. Is it like are you going east to america?
Are you going west to to italy?
I mean honda so astamartic
Like the closest you have
Yeah, but the point is like just because of the way f1 is and I to an extent
It's it's a shame that it is this way that there's so much there is so much talent concentrated in one area of the world
but it's almost
the reason
I don't necessarily think that all of the talent in the world just happens to be in the same place in the uk
It's just that these teams have set up there and therefore
You you get people automatically
It's cool to be in the cone valley of you know, motorsport for a reason right motorsport valley
It's a well known phrase at the central part of the uk has
So much in terms of car development and racing development. It's not just formula one either
There are england's teams and what not that are set up in this part of our country. We're very lucky
We're very lucky that we live
Minutes if not hours at most away from 18. Yeah, I don't think that works if you are in
Some other part of the world. Yeah, unfortunately the calendar and indeed the the drivers
Are a far better worldwide representation of what the sport is
Compared to what the teams are. It's not great in that we still not
We're still not anywhere in africa at the moment in terms of the calendar and
There's still work to do to to get more markets involved in terms of drivers and making sure that those junior series are
Well funded and well connected that you don't necessarily maybe have to be in europe in order to
Progress up the ladder into f1. There's work to do on that front
but there's far more like if if you're if you're brazilian you've got a driver to to
Cheer on but not a team if you're argentinian you do if you're australian like but there's there's more nationalities that get involved
As a result of where the drivers are from
Equally don't choose to support things based on your nationality. Just pick something you like and have fun. Exactly
I'm not french, but estaban octon is my love
Me and ghastly get our softies out together. Maybe we're actually french
This whole show is actually being a french because we're so fluent. We haven't realized maybe maybe
Uh, it doesn't feel right to end a q&a on something that is an an abundant lie, but uh, yes
That is the end of the q&a. Thank you very much to all of those questions again
We'll bring this back at some point probably with a focus on on drivers rather than constructors. Um, but yeah very much appreciate all of your
Sensible questions. We're very proud. Thank you for all. Yeah. Thanks for always getting involved january. It makes the show a better place
I have some good news sam. What's the good news, ben? We have a raced preview on wednesday
The father christmas of birthdays has come out. Is that excited?
He will actually be needed on that episode. It will also be here. It's a full stacked episode raced
Preview and the father christmas of birthdays. What more could you want?
Nothing literally nothing
And that's why like a house same as same logic of you know going to sleep early on christmas eve
So christmas day comes here sooner. We're going to end this episode as quickly as we can
So wednesday's preview comes here sooner dig folks. Thanks so much for listening back to being involved with the questions join patreon
If you're gonna be even more involved and you're gonna support the show it helps us
massively discord the links in the description follow us on social media late breaking f1 and please please please go and subscribe
To youtube because we're so very close to 10k. Honestly at this point we kind of like tap dancing down there. I can see it
It's there
And they kick the marshals pick pick it up and take your step back every time i take one step forward
So go on go give it a try. I appreciate it. Please. Anyway, thanks for listening folks
We will be back midweek for a race preview how exciting and of course it's a sprint weekend
So we will do a sprint qualifying review on friday
We'll have a qualifying and sprint race review on saturday full race review sunday
And then power rankings are back on patreon on the monday afterwards as well. It does not get better than that
Thanks for listening in the meantime. Bye big time your sake and i've been ben hocking and remember keep breaking late
You
About this episode
Sam and Ben kick off with F1 weekend plans and fan meet-up announcements for the British and Dutch GPs, then pivot into a top-five debate on F1’s most dominant eras. They land on Williams’ early-90s title run, Cooper’s rear-engine revolution and 1950s/60s dominance, Red Bull’s 2010–13 Vettel sweep (with the Webber team-order “what if”), McLaren’s Prost/Senna MP4-4 peak, and Ferrari’s Schumacher-era resurgence (plus Mercedes’ 2014–20 engine-led dominance as #1). The Q&A covers Red Bull’s future, Aston Martin/Honda recovery, Williams’ realistic targets, and whether teams should lean into national identity.
Ben and Sam take you through F1 history, ranking the most dominant streaks where the competition had no answer. They also discuss the teams’ 2026 upgrade programmes, before answering your questions in a Constructors Q&A.
Heading to the Dutch GP and interested in a Thursday meet-up? Fill out this quick form so we can keep you updated: >>> CLICK HERE <<<
