Marcus Armstrong

This is off track.

My weekend was not as bad as yours for a myriad of reasons,

but ladies and gentlemen, it's Thursday.

We've got a guest.

James isn't here because James gets paid more to be other places.

So it's me and Tim and I would like to welcome

the dulcet tones of Marcus Armstrong to the show.

Last time I saw him, I walked in on him in a port of John.

So honestly, I don't know if I will refer this view of that view.

That was by design, actually.

Was I?

I figure.

I left I left the port of party open and anticipation for your arrival.

And yeah, yeah, you heard me on my crutches coming up.

I heard you.

I heard your attitude first and then I read your crutches.

It was yeah.

Anyway, things proceed me at this point in my life.

But anyways, thank you.

Thank you for joining us.

I do want to talk about recent events, but I also want to give our listeners

the opportunity to hear about young Marcus Armstrong and what he

kind of dreamed of doing.

I'm going to sing your praises a little bit just in the fact

that, you know, through your early days in carding and such, you were

successful, so successful that you attracted the likes of Ferrari, which

I'm sure some people have heard of and were a part of the Fry Driver Academy

for several years kind of went through the F4, F3, F2 ranks.

And obviously you're over here now, but why don't you kind of walk us

through, you know, your early days, what made you fall in love with the sport

and kind of your time over in Europe?

What made me fall in love with the sport was watching on and GP2, a

young Alex Rossi hacking away and as green, was it green?

I'm pretty sure it was.

There was there was times that it was green.

Yeah.

And I remember UNF2 and GP2, what was it 2015?

It would have been the green one was 14, it was 13 actually.

Right.

I remember that.

Well, actually GP2 and GP3 was televised quite heavily in New Zealand

growing up.

So I looked at the GP2 guys like they were, you know, as famous as James

Hinchcliffe, you know, I just really liked them.

So I saw you race in GP2.

I saw you race in F1 very briefly.

But I actually had already left New Zealand at that point.

I was at the tender age of 12.

I left the country and it's a crazy sport, isn't it?

Because you have to certainly when you're from our part of the world,

Australia and New Zealand, you kind of have to pack your bags and say

Cheerios to everyone at home and just like crack on because back in the

day, I remember like Lando and Max and I remember a whole load of people

like just having their own test teams away from their racing teams

and they wouldn't even go to school.

Like they were just testing every single day.

I could hear about the staff and testing and gank on Wednesday and

lousy string on Thursday and just like traveling around constantly.

So you kind of had to anyway, the thing was you had to be over there

doing it full time, even as like a 13 year old.

So I was very lucky.

I was I was actually initially it was Oli Oaks.

You might know him.

He was a talent scout for Tony Cass at the time and he he invited me over

just to come and race full time in Europe, leave school, leave your family.

Let's go and my interesting looking back at it.

My dad, however, was how would you say like completely against the idea?

He's like, no.

Was he usually it's usually the other way around.

All right.

Okay.

No, he was like, what are you talking about?

Like, who are these random people telling you to move to Europe?

Like that's not happening.

So after a lot of convincing, I said that I would just go for a couple of

races and just see how it goes.

And this is you 12.

This is me as a 12 year old.

Yeah, I was negotiating from a young age.

And so he eventually let me go and and we forgot to tell my mom that I was

leaving, of course, which was a real popular, popular thing.

And then I finished second at the winter cup on my second race and and

obviously it was like all flowing straight away.

So that was it really left left New Zealand and when you went when you

left New Zealand, were you like truly solo like all the Oaks, the

strangers just picking you up at the airport and it's like getting my

van sort of situation or was like, did your parents go initially and set

you up and I don't know a home?

It was it was crazy actually because like I wouldn't even let my 12 year

old younger brother go to the supermarket on his own.

But right, I went completely alone.

All he was kind of meant to be looking after me, but he was he was busy

looking after Nikita Mazapin at the time, the Russian guy and Kalamaila

free enough.

Exactly pre pre European sanction.

And he he had his hands full with Nikita and I was kind of like I was

quite self-sufficient anyway and low maintenance.

Luckily I was I was actually too young to live at the factory, the Tony

car factory with the other drivers to do anything.

Like yeah, I was just thinking like I barely like I get worried if I have

to go to the grocery store and leave my 12 year old daughter here alone.

I can't imagine just be like, hey, go to this other continent like you're fine.

The thing is at the time it felt like I'm sure you had a similar experience

when you were young because you have a desire to fill your dream.

But yeah, yeah, but you like you know what you want to do.

Like there's just no doubt about it in your mind and and at the time I was

like looking back at it anyway, I was just completely chill about it.

Like it's no stress.

I only got homesick after like the first race weekend when I suddenly

realized I had like two weeks to kill and I had like, what do I do?

I just sit here in this apartment hotel complex for two weeks.

You know, that was about the only time where I was like, what do I do?

But for the most part, it was just like focused, you know, there was

always a way forward.

So I wouldn't change it, mate.

Like it was it was the craziest thing like looking back.

And that's the only way to be to at least get close to fulfilling an F1 dream.

Right.

So yeah.

So all right.

So walk us through that.

So you you make the transition successfully.

You're obviously winning races.

You're moving up through the program with the support of the FDA, not food

and drug administration for those wondering for our driver Academy.

And you decide to leave that.

Did you did you see that the there was just no route for you to get to F1 in

the way there was no vacancies or like what what gave you the confidence

that that leaving that was the right decision.

Yeah.

I mean, leaving the leaving the Ferrari fold was was a tricky call really.

But it was it was a bit average from like 2019 onwards because pre 2019

it was I was one of the younger guys and everything was going well.

And Ferrari and Prima were very close.

Prima was the strongest team in Europe at the time.

And then in 2019, Mick Schumacher came along and he was very much the golden

boy of that operation and yeah.

And also sort of me me Robert and Callum were there before and then Mick

came along and it was it was fairly obvious that Mick was going to get the

open seat that was eventually going to come, which was an ass.

Yeah.

And in 20 into 21, we yeah, we sort of made the call that it wasn't the

right wasn't the right place for me.

I was also spending like 140 days a year on the simulator, which for

Ferrari doing their development stuff.

So yeah, I was meant to be actually that was meant to be I lot's job because

I lot was in theory, the development driver and for whatever reason, he

didn't do any of it and I did everything and Antonio Fuoco was meant to be

doing it with me as well.

But he he had something going on that year and I basically did everything.

So it was not complimenting my F2 program very well.

And the workload was pretty high, which was okay.

But like doing all the F1 stuff and then and then flying out to do like

my F2 races was just not ideal.

And then yeah, there was just no seat available.

So yeah, it was at that point.

I was already looking at Indy car.

Like I was I came to my first race August 2021.

And I think my manager at the time Nicholas Todd was he said he was going

over to look for a seat for me, but I had I had doubts.

So I was like, because I knew he was looking after Daniel Kivi at the time as

well. So I was like, you know, well, I want to tag along on this trip because

I want to make sure that like I'm showing my face.

And I also I appreciate the American culture where they kind of want to talk

directly to the driver, right?

They don't they don't care about what the manager has to say, especially a manager

that is not American.

I don't know.

That's just my perception anyway.

You're not wrong.

So so I came over and just started trying to wheel and deal myself.

And that but that was I mean, Indy car was on my radar since I was four years

old, you know, because I've been watching Scott Dixon kick ass for that long.

But I wouldn't change it for the world.

I think that it's I've landed in the best possible spot.

And that whole European ladder was a good learning process.

But I think Indy car racing is way cooler.

Like you surely will agree with me.

Like, you know, no, you know, well about it.

It's nice to hear though, because I think a lot of people who make

the transition from Europe, they view Indy car is kind of like a as a last resort

B plan and I'll first handedly admit that I was in that that grouping.

And it sounds like you were kind of already a fan of it.

And so for you, it wasn't like a step backwards.

If anything, it was an exciting proposition and an opportunity for you.

So let's talk about how that came to be.

You know, you you're, as you said, kind of landed in an incredible situation

as a as a rookie coming into a team of the stature of CGR and obviously

all of the the success that they have had historically and obviously currently

were they the only teams that you were they the only team you were talking to?

Or like, how did how did that relationship kind of develop before

you kind of made your debut in 23?

Was it? Yeah, that's right.

I did part time in 23.

So yeah, it would have been middle of 22 when things were kicking off with

Palu, I don't know if you remember that, obviously you do.

And and I was very eager to get out of Europe.

Basically, I wanted to come and race in America full stop.

Like I was ready to pack up and leave.

And I I was just calling calling a lot of team owners at the time

and just expressing my interest and the opportunity to move over.

And like, I'm definitely not hesitant to completely switch my life up and come.

And I did make the call to Mike Hull and Mike was Mike was obviously

in the middle of a debacle with Alex at the time.

But you know, I did.

I said to him, like, I don't expect to be in Chip Ganassi racing on my first year.

You know, like, but I do want to be driving for you in the future.

And and he appreciated that.

And he he also knew me because obviously with the connection with Scott

and I actually met him in Nashville when I came fast forward a couple of months.

Obviously a miracle happens and the opportunity comes to join to take the the Jimmy car,

the Jimmy Johnson car from it was the 48 turning into the 11.

And I was going to do part time with Sato.

And I remember the call very well.

It was one of the best calls in my life, I think.

But it was it was great to just to be in a position where I can sort of start clean

and be in control of my own destiny.

The politics was clearly a lot.

It's minimal over here.

Like it's truly about your work ethic.

That's what gets you far.

And what I love about it too is they don't care what you did in Europe.

Like you're only as good as your last day in America.

Like, you know, I finished 24th and wrote America.

So I'm only as good as 24th.

Like that's how American racing is.

So I appreciated that.

But yeah, I have a great selfie of the moment that I found out that I was joining CGR back in 2022.

I might share it with you.

You know, I look I look very happy and I look very young.

This is now I look kind of old.

Yeah, I mean, even though it's gone pretty well, it has aged you quite aggressively

since I first met you.

I remember the first time I met you.

I think we were sharing a truck on the lap around St. Pete.

Really?

I guess in 2023, I guess it would have been.

Yeah.

And yeah, you were just you were you were explaining to me like this is the greatest day of my life

because I get to drive an Indy car for chip and what more could you ask for?

So that was I'll remember that conversation for for quite some time.

All right.

So let's get let's get into it because I don't want to take that's really cute.

I appreciate that my diary actually.

Yeah, it was it was aggressively cute.

It was that standard Alex Rossi cuteness though.

You know, that's how he is journaling like with your little legs off the end of the bed

like kind of kicking away journaling like that.

See, I went the other way.

I went that his head was down at the foot of the bed and his legs, his knees were on the pillows

and they were just kind of kicking like that.

Lizzie McGuire poster is above my desk in my room, which of your Lizzie McGuire posters?

Well, I've got exactly.

I've got Lizzie McGuire or I callie.

I forget how old you are.

This is a Lizzie McGuire podcast and you can talk with that.

I currently stuff.

Okay.

Let's talk about current day.

Well, before we get there, can you can you explain so 2023-24 you drive for chip and then this thing

that we've covered on the podcast a lot.

So people know about it.

Charters become a thing in 2025 and there can only be three cars per team that have a charter.

So you now drive for MSR, Meyer-Shank Racing, which has a technical partnership with Ganassi.

But can you explain to us as much as you can without giving away all of your details?

Like, are you a chip guy?

Are you a shank guy?

Like where do you kind of fall?

Or if you can't answer that, that's okay.

But just walk us through kind of that transition from Ganassi to Ganassi Blight, if you will.

No, I think it's okay to say.

I mean, Chip has said it many times.

So I've been under Chip's contract for the past couple of years.

And then obviously the MSR connection is essentially, I wouldn't say I'm being loaned there,

but that was that seat was basically a CGR seat that was given to me.

And this, I mean, the technical partnership in general has been, it's almost been seamless.

I managed to keep my engineers, so my lead engineer, Angela Ashmore, which I'm sure you're aware of,

and all of my engineers from the 11 car actually came with me.

And so it was, and we still debrief inside the Ganassi fold.

So it's, it has been fairly seamless for me.

And I mean, it's been a, it's been a pretty great group to be a part of,

because I mean, especially the last two years with obviously Scott, Alex, Kiff and Felix and myself,

it's been like a proper good group of guys who work together well, which is like, it's hard to come by really.

I feel like, but it's also, it's a management thing as well.

Like Mike, Shang, Jim, Maya and Chip and Mike, the way they run their operations,

it's a tight ship, you know, and all of us, we work together well and there's no BS.

We all want to kick each other's asses.

There's no question about it, but I feel like we've all been on the same page.

So, you know, I feel like, yeah, it's just been very seamless.

The only thing that's been different is like my strategist is Billy Vincent now.

Do you know Billy?

You know, I'm from McLaren probably.

Very well, yes.

Yes.

He's the mastermind.

Yeah, man.

He is the mastermind behind all of our, you know, late day recoveries where we're like,

we have a bad luck at some point or if we have a poor pit stop or whatever, Billy, he's good.

And yeah, and also our crew chief, Jimmy Looper, he's been incredible too,

but I guess I've lost my train of thought now.

What was I going to say?

So, it's kind of what I imagined it to be, you know, you're able to kind of continue

the development and the relationship with Gnassie, albeit on a satellite kind of operation,

but everything that you're doing, they're seeing and they're seeing your progress firsthand,

which is obviously very important because as you said, you're very much judged in this series

by the amount of effort you put in and also unfortunately, unfortunately sometimes your

last result.

So, I want to get into that as much as we can.

So, I think, let's just talk about the 500.

So, obviously you come out of that event incredibly disappointed as you should, you know, to take

the white flag in the lead and to not win the race sucks, but at the same time, I think

you, that was an event that you showed that you are the kind of complete Indy car driver,

right?

You obviously have had proven that the pace was there on road and street courses, you'd

had podiums on some of the short ovals before, but as we all know, Indianapolis is kind of

the thing, right, in this championship and, you know, you were fast.

I remember last year, you were incredibly fast, but had an issue in practice before qualifying

and as we know, when you crush a race car at Indy before the race, your days a little

bit harder.

Yes, but you almost, I do know that well, but you almost won the Indy 500, right, in

your third attempt.

So, while you were disappointed, can you, at some point, you must have realized shortly

thereafter that that was a big breakthrough for you?

I mean, the speedway, it's a different base, doesn't it, like there's, there is nothing

quite like the Indy 500, not only from the, you know, you've heard it all before, but

like obviously the atmosphere is crazy, the build up is ridiculous, like you just have,

you have so much time to prepare yourself for race day, but at the same time, the resource

that's put into it, it starts eight months prior to the race, so the, obviously the stakes

are higher and the thing is, it's just so different to every other oval, like it was

my third attempt, but in reality, it was my second because on my first, I had an engine

failure on lap four, so that kind of, that even, and it also rained the whole month.

I don't know if you remember that year, but it was like, I was basically, it's like we

did the Indy open test and we rocked up for qualifying, basically, like it just rained

the whole time.

So, this year was more like my second year and, but I, I'm a bit of a, I'm a bit of

like I love to, the 500 is a fun one because there's just so much to look at and I mean,

I look at a lot of your stuff as well, because I think that, you know, there's a couple of

guys that are really great and quality and this is just my perception, like you might

even argue with me, but there's like a couple of guys like you, um, feel it, and, uh, Taku

and, um, even Schwartzman, man, like the short, maybe it's because Schwartzman was

just like, so you didn't, I don't know if he just wasn't aware of the risk or what,

but like you can see the rear just so loose on a quality lap and, um, you, you're one

of the guys that has always got the car super on the nose and it looks almost scary to,

to watch because as a driver, you, you can kind of watch from the outboard when the car

isn't, when the tires are not digging into the track, they're just sort of skating and

you are like notorious for that. Anyway, so I love to just study that whole, that whole

event and, uh, but at the same time, I really want to look after my material because last

year I found out that when you destroy your speedway car, it's, it's a tricky, it's a

tricky race. So, um, I wanted to really look after everything and just arrive to race day

and, and race day was the first day that I was like, right, I can actually push here

and I'm actually going to gain something. I'm not just putting an Instagram reel out

of me overtaking 20 cars and one stent, you know, I'm actually like, uh, sussle dick.

No, I love him.

Um, no, like 10 tweets here. No, I was like race day is the first day that I can push.

So, um, I was so excited, man. And, uh, and I also knew that it would work out for us

because we had a strong car and we just played it so safe up until then. Um, it was just

one of those days where I was like, just delusional optimism. Like, I was sure it was just going

to work out. Um, and I'd even talked about day before, or maybe I shouldn't disclose

this, but I was like, if I'm leading on the last lap, should I just do one of those

abortion starts and just like leave like way before the restart line as a joke? Obviously

I didn't. Um, but, uh, I would have been very popular. Would have been quite unpopular

if I did that. In any case, everyone looks at the speed line.

You know what they call an unpopular winner though, right? A winner.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, right. Um, no, I'm glad I proved that I can, I can handle the speedway

because everyone looks at the speedway and if you can, if you can perform there, you know,

much like you can and, and Dickson and, and Pat out and all these guys here and you're out.

It raises your stock, you know. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Well, I'm, I'm glad to hear that you feel

that way because, um, I think everyone can, can sympathize with the immediate kind of probably

emotions you are feeling after the fact, you know, as much as you're happy for the team,

you know, it's, it's tough. It's tough to watch a teammate win the 500,

especially when you were in the position that you were in, as I said, to start the last lap.

But I think everyone, um, came out of there with a huge amount of additional respect

for what you're doing. So good job there. And to back it up, uh, two weeks later or whatever

the hell, uh, was road America. And in, in every sense of the word, uh, you won that race, which

would have been, uh, your first Indy car win, but the, uh, I don't know, there was a different

plan at place. It wasn't meant to be. So three laps ago, your engine like, let's go from the lead

and, um, talk us through that because if you were disappointed after Indy, I can't imagine what

that was like. No, no, but still nothing compares to the Indy thing. Like, um, like I don't even

want to compare the two because yes, I was very close to winning on Sunday, but, um, the Indy

thing is like, you just don't know how Indy chooses the race winner, doesn't it? It's,

you know, you could have the fastest car in the world and something could go wrong and very,

you know, it's not every year you're leading on the last lap. So it's just one of those things

where it's like, you know, I hope the opportunity comes around again, um, and then their future,

but you just never know, right? Um, and then with road America, I mean, frankly, I was,

I was very calm afterwards, like, because, uh, frankly, I wasn't like disbelief, like I couldn't

believe it, um, because it's just such a random thing. Hondas are so reliable. We never really

have, I haven't had an issue for, for forever basically since probably the Indy 524. And, uh,

yeah, I mean, I was very calm initially. It was like, I just wanted to make sure that the team

wasn't, you know, ready to jump off a ledge or anything because everyone did a great job. It

wasn't, you know, it wasn't only me that day. It was Billy running the strategy amazingly.

Angela gave me a car that was, I think the quickest weekend. Um, and everyone just did their job from

start to finish as well as they could. Um, so I kind of felt really for them as well, like

not even about me. It was like the whole team deserve this. Um, and that kind of put me in a

bit of a state of calm because I want to kind of lead by example a little bit and not throw my

toys out the car and, um, and just reassure everyone that we're going to get this chance again.

But, uh, I always imagined I'd win my first race at Road America, funnily enough. Um,

because, uh, Daria always said it, like when I was in CGR, Daria would always be like,

ah, yeah, my first race was, my first win was in Road America. I think you're going to get yours

in Road America too. And back in 24, when I started third and took out Linus at the first corner,

um, it was like that, I thought that was my day, you know, uh, so it was kind of like,

this was finally redemption. Uh, but nevertheless, um, I think that all in all, despite how terrible

the situation was, um, we're going to get this chance again simply because I have a great team

around me and we are, so, uh, if that didn't fire us up, um, nothing will, you know? Like,

I think that we're all, we're all better for funnily enough. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean,

IndyCar racing, man, anything can happen. You can be lost like long guard and win the race. And

that's just the night. That's why it's so amazing, isn't it? Like your day is never done. Um, so,

yeah, that's the magic. That's the magic of it all. Um, final question for you because

we've taken too much of your time. Give us just the quick synopsis of what it's like

and how frustrating it is to be Alex Palos teammate.

Like the lovely guy, so nice, so kind, great family, generous, funny, and just continually kicks

everyone's ass. Well, let me ask you in, in return, would you want to be his teammate?

Yeah. Like, but like, let's, let's take away the, the whole technical thing.

Yeah. If Palou was to arrive at, okay. Yeah, I, I, because I don't think it's painful. Um,

I think it's a, it's a great thing. It's almost, um, it's reassuring as a driver because you know,

like, you know, this guy is the benchmark. He is unquestionably the, the best guy in the series

at the moment. And you have his data, video, me being the study freak that I am. I

kind of like, I almost know what he's going to do before he does it. And that's how much I've

looked at his stuff. It's not as if I'm taking it for granted. However, to match him, it is a

tricky thing. He's very good at, um, adapting to every situation he's in. And, um, I think it's

also because he's so confident, right? So, um, he's confident and he's experienced at this point.

Um, but I feel very grateful to, to be in the position to just learn from him at the stage

of my career. Um, do I think I can beat him? Absolutely. Um, I think that the time will come.

But, uh, I'm also not so egotistical that I'm not going to look at his data and,

and learn from him. So that's not painful at all, man, to answer a question. I think it's,

it's, um, what would I compare it to? It's like, I don't know if you follow Iron Man. Do you follow

Iron Man? Like the, no, the triathlon. I know what it is, but not enough to get an analogy.

There's these three Norwegian guys that train together and they are the three best in the world

and they, uh, they basically live together. They're like brothers and they just dominate the whole,

the whole thing. And they, like for them, it's kind of reassuring. They know that the guy that

they're training with is going to be probably winning the race. So they know that if they're

close to him, he's going to be second. And if you're beating him, you're going to be first. So

that's, that's kind of how I would compare the whole thing with Alex is if you're faster than

him, you're, you know, you've got a good chance to win in the race. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's,

um, listen, that's, that's, uh, an answer that I would expect from someone who left their country

at 12 years old and started negotiating their own deals. Um, so that's, uh, whether it's true or not,

I'm going to believe you and, um, appreciate your time, man. I know you've got a hot yoga

class to get to. So I don't want to take too much more of your time, but, uh, it was a pleasure

getting to hear your story a little bit and look forward to seeing you in another restroom in the

future. Thank you. So that sounds quite ominous, but, um, it is looking forward to this. Yeah.

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Offtrack is produced by Tim Durham and by that we mean FIM.

Indy 500

white flag

road and street courses

short ovals

practice before qualifying

crush a race car at Indy

About this episode

Original notes