LIVE
This is the Automotive Repair Podcast Network.
Hey everybody, Karm Capriotto, remarkable results radio.
Good to have you here.
You know, we're recording this kind of just before the holidays and everybody's getting ready to find their own personal downtime.
And I hope you have some and find some time to maybe slow down and rethink.
We have a great episode today. We're kind of titling it what I learned from my accountant.
You would imagine that Hunt Demarest is on with me, wouldn't you?
Amazing stuff.
Hey, I'm so happy to have you here.
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Okay, we're ready to go.
Let's see.
Liz Perkins.
Always got to do ladies before guys, right, huh?
Yep.
Liz Perkins.
God, I just saw Liz a couple of weeks ago with the two kids on the cruise.
The Carb Cruise at 2.0, L1 Automotive, your mobile programmer, your key specialist,
you know and get 8S, and you keep Keith Perkins in place.
I know that.
That's the biggest part.
Like, let's be honest.
Keith says, just got to listen to the wife and things go great.
Liz, glad to have you here.
Hunt Demerist, CPA, Par Melis, and the Business by the Numbers podcast on the Automated Repair Podcast Network.
Hello, Hunt.
Hey, Carm.
Thanks for having me on here.
Hunt, I learned so much when I listened to your episodes, and I think Liz even mentioned
that in her talking points, so we're so happy to have you inside of our network.
Look, what I learned from my accountant, what's so interesting is you've recently made a change,
Liz, and I think part of so many people that are listening, we love status quo.
We don't want to interrupt a boat.
We don't want to stop and do research.
We don't want to read anything.
We don't want to ask anybody for anything.
And then all of a sudden, you know, something kind of hits you upside the head and you look
in the mirror in the morning and there's a black and blue mark there and you're saying,
that's because I'm not paying attention to my numbers.
Oh, yeah.
It's like the, if you have those little punching bags and it's like the guy in front of you
hit it, it's like he just spins around and just hits you again.
That's kind of what happens.
You just, after a while, you're like, okay, okay, I get it.
I got to know.
I got to understand more than what I'm understanding.
So how did you decide to put your hand in a bucket and find hunt, pick hunt out?
The easiest way was we were at vision a couple of years ago.
It's silly cause I was like, at that point I was like, okay, we're going to go with hunt.
We like, we talked to him like, this is what we're going to do.
Talk to somebody else.
Like, well, we can do more than that.
We can do more than just your numbers.
We can, you know, you know, help you with shop management.
We can help you with, you know, business coaching, all the stuff.
So we went down that path, that path just led us right back to hunt.
And I had another talk with him at vision this year.
We were just sitting in at breakfast, had a quick little chat and he said, hey,
I'm still not seeing the numbers I want to see.
I'm still not understanding what I need to do in my business.
And he's like, we're always here.
He wasn't super pressuring.
That always is, you know, wonderful thing when you're doing business.
So one is they're not being overly, you know, pressuring, but more, you know,
advice, just trying to help you.
So we came back and we're like, okay, this is what we're going to do.
And man, oh man, I wish I could turn that time back and go from the very first
time I had that class and just jump right in from there.
It would have saved us so much heartache, honestly.
Hunt, Liz just said something really big and powerful.
And I know you probably feel it on a daily basis.
Listen, I love every coach in the industry.
I'm agnostic.
I will never recommend a coach.
But I so believe that it is exactly what you need as we're looking here.
And this is our goal in our numbers.
We've got to do something with effective labor rate.
Now, maybe the coach will help you in internally and processes and systems to
get there, but not necessarily is that individual going to pay attention to
the degree of we've got sales and we've got margin and we've got costs.
We've got EBITDA and we've got taxes and we've got investments.
That's where the combination of a great business coach and a
premier CPA firm, I think is magic.
What Liz is talking about is really why I do this stuff, right?
Like everyone's like, oh, you must love numbers.
Like I am kind of a strange dude.
I'm not that strange, right?
Like I like helping people with their numbers.
We have a unique business that we don't sell anything.
I'm selling Liz her own numbers, but really what we're trying to sell is
an understanding.
We're big about relationships.
I think that you need to have a relationship where you can call your
accountant because really that's the biggest thing that I think people miss.
A lot of people that come to us, they have decent financials.
They have decent tax returns, but they don't understand what's on those
tax returns, what's on those financials.
And until you do that, your business is not going to make much sense.
Your tax planning is not going to make much sense.
And like you were talking about, you know, a lot of people understand a lot
of things about coaching, but until you understand your numbers and how
some of those changes have effects on your numbers, it's really kind of hard
to take that stuff to the next level.
And Liz, I think that was in your year before you brought humpback exactly
what we're talking about.
And I think this discussion needs to tell people that your numbers is not a
DIY style job.
I guess when you want to grow a great business and you want to take advantage
of every potential thing you want to do, I agree that having a coach will help
you find that strategic plan to help you with your SWAT and all the other
things, but hunts the numbers man or a CPA firm is a numbers man.
They're two completely different things.
Even though hunting in your survey in the books you've written, and I guess you've
got a new book coming out.
Let's talk about that a little later.
There's an opportunity to, if you will, almost, you know, husband and wife
traveling down the church, you know, at the same time, you know, making them
both mean something at the altar.
I don't necessarily think they need to be that far apart, but I think they need to
be closely aligned.
When you first started the business, it was all about using QuickBooks for the
bare minimum and then sending everything to an accountant that was local.
And that local accountant was like, oh yeah, this has got to be categorized this
way and then just kind of throwing things into categories.
He was too busy.
And he's like, hey, I just can't handle your caseload.
It's getting pretty large.
So then he turned around and we found another person that said, hey, I've done it for
the automotive industry.
I can definitely help that.
Well, then we look and then start looking at their numbers.
Like we spent $5,000 in marketing.
Well, we've actually never done any marketing.
So how is it that I actually spent $5,000 in my marketing?
And that's what's classified.
But at the end of the day, I didn't spend that.
So where was that supposed to go?
And starting working with Hunt and his team, they worked with me and said, okay, you know,
you know your numbers best.
Do you want us to completely do it for you?
Or do you want to have a piece in it?
And I said, to be honest, because of the history that I've had, I'd rather have a
bigger piece and, you know, doing like putting everything into the right buckets.
And then you guys kind of like working with me and making sure that's and, you know,
they're properly, it's super helpful.
And it's helping me to understand too, as I'm doing everything and putting
everything in every month, hey, I'm not going to end up with, you know,
some report that comes back saying that I had $5,000 in marketing when I never
spent it.
It's working hand in hand with somebody that knows this type of business too.
I know that a lot of people I'll talk with, well,
my local accountant can take care of me just fine.
And I'm like, okay, I'm sure they can.
But are you really looking into your numbers the way you're supposed to?
And are you really looking and seeing what that $5,000 worth accounting line
for marketing is?
What I just heard you say, Liz, kind of lends itself right into my passion,
the rise of the specialist.
Okay.
And Liz, I know that you believe in this great language shift because you've
done this in your business.
But what I just heard you say is what Hunt does in the focus on the automotive
professional service shop owner is he specializes.
And so you've decided your whole point about local, I get it really.
Hell, years ago, we had an accountant and I ran a business and it wasn't that
difficult for an accountant 30 years ago to know we're 20 years ago.
But today, this business is so, what's the word I'm trying to find here,
specific in the challenges that it has in producing revenue and how we do it.
And I mean, every day we're bombarded with something new that we have to think
about or do.
And it all ends up becoming part of a numbers game at the end, right Hunt?
And also, I think that a lot of that is also, you know, knowing what our clients
are going through, right?
Like we're specialized.
We're really only in one industry.
99.9% of our businesses look and smell very similar to Liz's businesses,
independent repair shops.
So there's some stuff that we can just save time on actually doing the accounting.
I know what that vendor is.
All my clients use them.
I know what this lease looks like.
We see these all the time, but also, you know, for those questions that our
clients aren't asking.
Hey, I know other shops struggle with the same issue or the same idea.
So I'm guessing that you probably are going to be in a similar position.
Also know where a lot of people come from, you know, most of our clients have
been in this industry.
A lot of them started their shop in a very small size and we see that kind of
growing with our clients a lot.
Kind of like what Liz talks about, her struggles is kind of our classic example.
You go out, you start a business, you start working with QuickBooks because
you got to stay legal, right?
You start filing some taxes, start making some money and it's like, oh wait,
I think there's more to learn here on the business side and that's where we come in.
I don't need to teach you how to run a business.
You know how to run a business.
You know how to fix cars.
I'm going to help you understand the back end of your, you know,
numbers and taxes as much as a client wants to.
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How they get there. Talk to me about the transition, Liz.
You made this move and did it. Was it painful at all in any way?
Not really. I honestly was a lot usually what I had made up in my head, to be really honest.
I mean, everyone thinks like, okay, well, I get a new accountant and I have to, you know,
I have to go over everything with my business and I'm going to have to like run down every single expense.
I will say that talking to everybody, working directly with the one accountant that I was working with,
made things far, far easier than what I assumed that they were going to be when she's like,
hey, like, wait, let's pull in all of this data.
And I'm like, but I have to do that like one at a time.
And she's like, no, you don't see, you don't have to do that one at a time.
Like, let me show you.
And so then we did what worked together one on one for a couple hours here and a couple hours there.
Whereas I was thinking this is going to take months and months and months of like hard work.
I mean, believe me, it was hard work.
But we were also in a point where we hadn't filed for 24 when we started and we were late to the game.
I mean, we had to file an extension.
So I had to redo all of the numbers for your 24 and then also catch up for 25.
So there was a lot of work to be done, but they made it feel a lot less by, okay,
these are things that we can group together.
These are things we can make rules for.
These are things that we can make an easier transition than I feel like in the past it had been.
But you mentioned extension hunt.
How many people in your experience, what percent have to do that?
Because they're either falling behind or didn't do something.
Yeah, I mean, I would say extensions aren't necessarily a bad thing.
They're becoming a lot more common recently because a lot of investments,
they just don't even plan to give you your tax information until after April 15th.
But I would say that the number one thing probably costing people money is people in like in Liz's position,
you know, in past years of being late to the game on it,
having to extend because your information's not ready.
If you're kind of forced to extend because you don't have the previous year done,
then how would you ever have really tax planned in the previous year,
you know, without having that information?
So I really look at more people of having to extend by force probably means
that they didn't do the necessary planning to really minimize those as much as they should have.
So you're really mentioning tax planning or tax prep.
And Liz, did you guys do any of that previous to going with Parmelas?
No, we had zero tax planning.
And actually, I was told by the accountant is that based on the way that our business operates,
I could never tax plan, which was I've been with Parmelas.
We started at the very end of May, I think is when we signed up and I started the work after we got back from a trip.
And I already have tax planning.
I already know what to expect for the rest of the year.
And I know what to expect when it does come around to April this year.
And I'll be ready.
So all of my numbers, I have it done by the 10th of the month for previous.
So for in, I mean, we're in December now already have my numbers like submitted and ready to go
and going to have a conversation with him in January about it.
So it's a rolling.
It's continuous.
I don't have to wait a certain time.
I don't have to wait.
One thing that's really nice is when I took the class, he's like, Hey, you know, around September,
we always go with our clients and say, Hey, this is what it's looking like.
You know, do you need to spend more money, you know, to make your tax liabilities, you know, make sense?
Or, Hey, maybe we should wait for like a bigger purchase or making any type of forward movements.
So maybe it's a January decision.
And I already had that conversation.
I already know what to do.
Or maybe let me see.
It's time to talk to our client about spending money.
They don't have any.
What happened?
I can't imagine how many times with new clients that you say, this is the time of the year that we think about investing in the business.
But even with it's just a little bit of time, there's some problems here.
You have got to work on the profitability of your business happen like that.
And also, you know, having these conversations for taxes is a lot more of a two way street.
It's longer term conversations.
It's multiple steps throughout the year.
Like the classic kind of accountant phone call that everyone kind of thinks of my industry is end of year.
Carm, we got to spend some money.
What can you buy?
Because really at that point in the year, you have one option, right?
Go burn some money.
But if you're having this throughout the year, you can go to a lot of different things.
Hey, we need to go get a retirement plan set up.
What are we doing for health insurance on this?
What are our longer term goals to make sure that this is in line?
But yeah, your exact question is some of this goes beyond just taxes.
Like, hey, Liz, let's go out.
And if you want to buy that alignment, right?
Great.
But we have a lot of debt.
We got to make sure that we have the underlying profitability.
We got to make sure that this business can cash flow this.
But then a lot of these goes into even kind of higher level tax planning.
If Liz has a ton of cash, I'm going to say, hey, Liz, right?
We're not going to finance this.
We got a ton of money in the savings account.
We need to get this.
Let's go. Let's buy this cash.
We'll get the deduction next year.
Where some of my other clients, I might say, Liz, it's been a great year.
Our bank account balance is looking good.
But let's maybe get a lease on that.
Even though it's interest rate, I'd rather this business have a little bit more cash going into the slow season.
So, you know, by looking at this throughout the year, by understanding what these businesses need,
we can go on just beyond tax planning.
But what does this business need to do tax or cash wise to make sure that they're healthy?
Hunter said the million dollar takeaway here.
Here's the takeaway.
Not everybody who's running a business today gets this, knows this, experienced it,
failed at this in the past.
We are people who love to repair cars and make people happy.
We weren't accountants.
We weren't CEOs, CFOs.
And the beauty of what Hunter said was maybe not.
Maybe we put this away.
There's not enough.
Maybe we want to finance this.
But those decisions cannot be yours in my opinion.
I would rather pick up the phone and talk to an accountant who's been with me every step of the way.
Liz, I think that's got to be the feeling of this transition for you is to say,
I got somebody who knows my business helping me.
Oh, yeah.
Someone has my back.
I'm not out here swimming in the middle of the ocean alone.
You know, I mean, we were just on a cruise.
You look out of that ocean, it's pretty desolate looking.
And that's what it feels like to being a shop owner and not having anybody knowing and understanding your business really from the inside out.
And this way they can.
They see all the numbers.
They know they can see how to project in and think about and plan for the future.
So you and Keith are sitting there talking.
The transition happened in May.
Any early wins or improvements to your think when it comes to the business's finances that you'd love to share?
One thing that we did, we have multiple businesses, right?
We have three actual businesses.
But in those businesses, we have different markets.
So we have Tulsa Market, Oklahoma City Market for our mobile site, and we have a brick and mortar in Tulsa.
And then we have a training company.
So those are all very different things.
One of the things I told them when we started was, hey, I really want to drill down and see just Oklahoma City.
I just want to see Tulsa.
I want to see what the profit and loss is for that area.
Am I charging enough?
I want to know, like in Oklahoma City, we drive longer distances than we drive in Tulsa.
Tulsa is really everything's pretty close, right?
Should I be charging more for fuel?
Should I be charging more for time?
I want to see those matrix a little bit better.
And I was able to actually go in and see, yep, here's how much I made for this.
Here's my return on investment.
Here's all of the things right there.
Just in one column, I can see Oklahoma City versus Tulsa versus the shop versus the training company.
I can see those things without having to make any, wait, how did I pull that report?
Or how did I do that?
I mean, it's just right in front of me.
There's no big hoops to jump through and stuff.
You know what?
I'm getting a feel that Keith and Liz have this comfort zone going on when it comes to,
you know, knowing that you always have someone you could pick up the phone and call when it comes to any financial decisions.
I got to pay somebody an expense that isn't working.
How does it all work and fit?
Yes, I think you could talk to a coach, no doubt.
But I think when it comes to the fact that it has a greenback attached to it,
I don't think there's anybody else but a CPA that you need to go to the person who understands your financial statements.
I want to ask you a question about new clients.
Is there a specific Q&A that you have to go through in order for you to select the new client or to find out what kind of help they need?
Liz kind of mentioned this.
I am not the most salesy.
I think that this is a really big decision.
I think that there's a lot of people that I talk to whose accountants is doing a great job for them and they have a great relationship.
And if that's the case, I don't want to break that, right?
If someone feels like that they have the relationship that Liz does now where they can pick up the phone,
they feel like that they're paying a fair amount in taxes, then I think that they should stay there and they're probably being served well.
But for people that don't have that, for people that say, I look at my numbers, I don't understand that,
but I don't feel like that I can call my accountant.
One of the things that Liz struggled with, which is one of the really common things,
is a lot of shops out there have one business, but it's three kind of separate businesses in one.
It's very easy generally to figure out, am I making money or not making money overall?
But a lot of shops kind of struggle with, I want to figure out if my transportation business makes money.
I want to figure out if my collision shop actually makes money or lose money.
So really, we're trying to interview people to understand what they have going on.
I think that most anything we come across with, we know that we can solve.
But we also want to make sure that we're working with shops that want to learn.
Liz wants to understand more about her businesses so that she can make more educated decisions.
And that's really the big thing.
We offer a lot of education.
I want clients and shops that are looking to be educated and looking to kind of grow their understanding.
You know what he just said, Liz?
Something that a mentor of mine for years always said to me,
put his arm around me, walking me down the aisle of life.
And he would say, Carm, pay attention.
That's it.
And when you think about what Hunt just said, he's really saying, you've got to pay attention to your business.
Oh, it's so much fun turning wrenches and, you know, making sure I talk to clients.
All that's kind of important, but you got to pay attention to your business.
And that is the million-dollar winner-lose.
It really is, yeah.
Any advice you'd give to somebody that just says, hey, I see, I'm struggling with the finances.
Liz, what would you tell someone?
And it's a commercial for Paramellas.
It's really not because you've made a major transition.
Although Hunt's got a great firm.
Point is, is that what should people be looking at when it comes to their numbers?
Well, I mean, at the end of the day, you need to understand where you're making money and where you're not, right?
I mean, if you're exhausting, you know, a ton of money on, you know, one type of work or whatever,
then it's actually not getting you any return.
When you're looking at an accountant, I've unfortunately have hired and let go multiple at this point.
I wasn't asking the right questions.
I wasn't understanding the questions I really even needed to ask.
I'm like, okay, so you can do my books.
You need my logins.
What do you need?
I wanted someone, at least I thought I did, that could just do it in the background and let me be a technician.
Let me be a manager of my shop.
Let me do that and what I really actually wanted.
And this isn't going to be for every shop owner, honestly.
But for me, what I really actually wanted was to truly understand the numbers and where they're coming from.
And for me, that meant I really wanted to actually physically be involved in that, you know?
So I think you as a shop owner need to look at yourself in the mirror first and decide,
hey, how much do you want to be invested and how much time can you actually put into this?
I'll tell you that I don't have to.
I do it once a week.
I go and I move my numbers over and I see everything and then we have those conversations.
But as a shop owner, I understand what you want and how invested time-wise you can be
before you go looking for an account or having those conversations with an account that you even have right now.
And then, you know, what are you doing as far as tax preparation?
What are you doing as far as monthly numbers?
Are you looking at them by the week?
Are you saying, hey, this technician turned enough hours?
Well, what does that mean for your business?
Is just because the technician turned enough hours, does that make it actually profitable?
And so looking at them a lot more from that aspect is a lot more helpful.
There's a lot there.
You've done great homework in order to get to this point to share this to our industry.
You were saying I wasn't asking the right questions, okay?
My question to you of the accounting firm or of your own selves?
Both.
I mean, realistically, it's both.
When I was looking for an account, and I thought all I was doing was just calling an accounting firm and asking them,
can you do my books?
You know, can you handle this load?
You know, this case load.
So that's the wrong question.
Give me a question that you should have maybe asked.
Yeah.
I mean, what does it look like for you to do my books?
Is it you?
I give you a login.
Do you set up your own QuickBooks account for my business?
Does it my QuickBooks account that you're setting up?
How much input do I have in doing my books?
Do I have to go in there and say what each charges each month?
You know, what does this look like is really the biggest question.
What does this look like, this relationship?
Would you ever ask a question of tell me about the end of the month when I get my statement?
How much time can I get with you?
Tell me what you see, what you forecast, what you believe I should be doing.
Right.
I mean, that's definitely a big part of it too.
I think a lot of people don't think of that as part of it though.
They're like, well, as long as they can do my books and then the year I can submit my
taxes, that's all I need.
And that's honestly not what you need as a business owner.
You need to understand where you're at throughout the year.
You can't look at the year end like a coach after a game watching back the replay.
You can't make any adjustments, right?
If you're watching that videotape, you cannot change anything except for everything going
forward.
So your armchair quarterbacking all day long.
And you can't actually make any plays in the time of the game.
And that's where it comes down to.
That is a powerful statement.
You can't rely on the replay.
In hot, you've covered this over the 200 plus episodes you've done over the last few years.
Four years.
Really, right?
Well, four years have been doing this.
There's no replay.
And I've heard you say that, you know, the numbers are the numbers now.
It's history.
November's history.
We always have to look forward.
This was a great episode.
Give us a wrap up as to why you need to learn good stuff from your accountant if you're
going to decide to change and or if they're giving you great advice to help your business
be more successful.
I think it all goes back to what Liz says, right?
You have to have that relationship.
Like I'm honored, you know, I'm blushing from what Liz has been saying about me.
It's not really for me.
This is true Sherry and the rest of my team of like what they can deliver.
But, you know, it's real value.
It's real peace of mind, which it's really hard to sell in intangible, but that's really
if you can hear from our clients what they value.
So if you feel like that you understand your numbers, that your bookkeepers doing a great
job, that your accountant is fighting for you and that you can call them at any time
on it, then you have a good relationship and I would stick to it.
But for the rest of the shop owners out there, if you don't feel like that you have that,
you know, there are other options and reach out and see if there's someone that you could
have a better relationship than you do right now.
I just so love this.
I can't say enough about why this is so important in our industry.
We are doing so many things to improve a language shift.
We're educating more than we ever have before.
And again, there's just this top, top tier in our industry that's doing it.
But one of the objectives that I had 10 years ago when I did this was to try to help lift
a lot of the next tier of struggling shop owners up and through this and to invest in
equipment and facility and process and systems and forget about finance.
The whole finance side is probably one of the biggest mistakes.
Two years down the road, we've done all this thing, but we're still not making any money.
You don't want to hire a coach.
You don't want to find a good financial advisor slash accountant and you're swimming.
And I call it, you know, I read this book called The Rule of Holes and The Rule of Holes says
you need to know when to stop digging.
And that's the purpose of The Height of Motive Repair Podcast Network is we teach every day
people things that they need to do to stop digging the hole that puts them in a place
that they don't want to be in.
And some of them don't even know that they're in a hole.
That's another major problem.
Liz Perkins, her and Keith Allen Automotive Tulsa.
Hey, is Sylvester Stallone ever come to your shop?
Does he film the Tulsa King there?
Not yet.
He does.
I just haven't seen yet.
I kind of like that series.
Don't ask me why.
I just think it's a great, great series.
Every time I watch it, I think of you guys and Hunt Demeris, of course, CPA Parmelas
and the Hunt Demeris business by the numbers podcast.
And oh, by the way, let me just throw this up quickly.
Don't forget, get the app that go to a very simply.
There's a QR code up on our app, the Automotive Repair Podcast Network dot com.
Find the app page, take your good old phone to it, scan it and get all the stuff every
time it releases seven new podcast episodes a week.
Thank you guys.
Happy holidays.
The best to you.
Thank you.
Thanks, Karm.
Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive Repair Business
podcast, Remarkable Results Radio.
Get your episodic education on the ARPN listening app at automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com.
Also, enjoy the podcast on our Karm Capriato YouTube channel.
Karm is all for advancing the professional automotive service industry.
Until next time.
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