That Car Show Jan 23, 2026

Mecum and Go. And the 2026 That Car Show BS Market List

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Company

Meekum

Meekum is a company that sells classic cars at auctions. People can buy and sell rare cars there, and it's a popular place for car enthusiasts.

Car

Ferrari Enzo

The Ferrari Enzo is a supercar made by Ferrari, known for its speed and sleek design. It was built in limited numbers and is very valuable, often selling for millions.

Term

V8

A V8 is a type of engine that has eight cylinders. It's powerful and is often used in trucks and sports cars for better performance.

Car

Ferrari 250 GTO

The Ferrari 250 GTO is a famous sports car from the early 1960s, known for being very fast and successful in races. It's also one of the most expensive cars in the world today.

Concept

Car Week

Car Week is a big event in Monterey, California, where people who love cars come together. There are shows and auctions where you can see and buy fancy cars.

Car

Porsche 917

The Porsche 917 is a famous racing car that won many prestigious races. It's known for its unique shape and powerful engine, and it's a big deal in the world of car enthusiasts.

Term

high bid

A high bid is the most money someone is willing to pay for something at an auction. In this case, it's about how much someone is ready to pay for a car.

Car

Ferrari F50

The Ferrari F50 is another super-fast car from Ferrari, made in the 1990s. It's known for being very light and having a powerful engine, making it great for racing.

Car

Ferrari 288 GTO

The Ferrari 288 GTO is a classic sports car from the 1980s. It's famous for its powerful turbo engine and unique look, and it's very popular among car collectors.

Car

Ford GT40

The Ford GT40 is a famous race car from the 1960s. It's known for being very fast and winning a big race called Le Mans, and it has a cool, low design.

Term

mileage

Mileage is how far a car has driven, measured in miles. It's important because lower mileage usually means the car is in better condition and worth more money.

Concept

Hagerty bull market

The Hagerty bull market is when classic cars are becoming more valuable because more people want to buy them. This can make it harder for regular buyers to afford these cars.

Car

Porsche Career Gt

The Porsche Carrera GT is a supercar made by Porsche, famous for its powerful engine and fast performance. It was produced in the early 2000s and is considered a classic today.

Car

Honda S 2000

The Honda S2000 is a small sports car that is fun to drive and can be easily customized. It's known for being a good car for racing on tracks.

Term

modifiable

A modifiable car is one that you can change or improve by adding new parts or features. This makes it more personal and can make it perform better.

Term

factory red line

The factory red line is the highest speed the engine is designed to safely run. Going past this speed can hurt the engine.

Car

Porsche 911 GT3 RS

The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is a super sporty version of the 911 car, designed for racing and high performance. The '991.2' indicates it's from a specific version of the 911 made between 2016 and 2019.

Car

Subaru Wrx

The Subaru WRX STI is a sporty car that's great for both everyday driving and racing. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, especially on winding roads or tracks.

Car

Ford Broncos

The fifth generation Ford Bronco is a type of SUV made by Ford between 1992 and 1996. The Eddie Bauer version is a fancier model with special features and design.

Term

twin beam truck front axle

A twin beam truck front axle is a special kind of suspension used in some trucks. It helps the vehicle ride more smoothly over bumps and uneven surfaces.

Car

Porsche 718

The Porsche 718 is a type of sports car made by Porsche. It has a great balance and is fun to drive, which is why many people like it.

Car

Porsche 982

The Porsche 982 is the latest version of the Boxster and Cayman sports cars, which started being made in 2016. They have better features and performance than the older models.

Car

Porsche 981

The Porsche 981 is a version of the Boxster and Cayman sports cars that were made between 2012 and 2016. They are known for being stylish and fun to drive.

Car

Porsche 911 GT4

The Porsche 911 GT4 is a special version of the 911 sports car that is built for speed and handling on the racetrack. It's more powerful and has better features for driving enthusiasts.

Car

Porsche Spider

The Porsche Spider is a type of sports car that is very light and made for fun driving. It usually has a convertible roof, so you can enjoy the open air while driving.

Car

The 1987 to 1994 Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can drive well on rough roads and looks nice too. It's important because it made luxury SUVs popular and showed that you can have both style and adventure in one vehicle.

Car

Land Rover Discovery

The Land Rover Discovery is a spacious SUV that can handle rough roads and is also very comfortable inside. It's popular with families and people who like to go on adventures.

Term

V8 engine

A V8 engine is a powerful type of car engine that has eight cylinders. It's often used in bigger cars and trucks because it provides a lot of strength and speed.

Car

Buick V8

The Buick V8 is a type of engine made by Buick, which is part of General Motors. This particular engine was designed but never actually used in cars, making it an interesting piece of automotive history.

Car

This is the first annual BS list tonight on that car show.

It's a cruise show with Lindsey, Michael and me hanging out for way too long.

Well, Danny P's down in Arizona for Scott Stelkar week.

We talk about some of the surprising

prices achieved at the recent Meekum auction in Kissimmee, Florida,

like almost $18 million for an Enzo. Meekum, you come, we all come.

Also, after the great time we had talking with Hagerty's John Wiley last week,

it's the debut of our very own that car show bullshit market list.

The cars that we think are going to only go up this year.

Also, the absolute worst cars we've ever driven.

And here's your trigger warning now, BMW people.

All that and a lot of laughs.

It's that car show.

Hey, it's that car show.

I'm here tonight with Lindsey and our pal, Michael, who's sitting in for Danny P,

who's down at Scottsdale car week, I think is what they're calling it,

along with our pal Jorge Aquino from tormenting Tarmac and most of the rest

of Instagram, apparently, but it's good to see you guys. How are you both doing?

Great to see you both.

I'm very happy to be here and I'm excited to record tonight.

Absolutely. And in the internet, we'll tell us what goes on at car week.

So we don't, you know, car week, so we don't even have to be there and pay

the exorbitant fees and, you know, still get to enjoy it.

I'm excited to hear what Dan thinks. I know.

Yeah, yeah, I just couldn't make it happen.

You can't do everything, right?

You know, it's overwhelming only because unlike, you know,

we talked about it when we all went to Monterey, it's kind of contained, right?

Everybody kind of descends on, you know, pebble or whatever.

And then they do those those those kind of satellite car shows.

But Westworld, where they hold

Bear Jackson is literally tens of acres.

And then that's separate from where RM holds their stuff.

I forget, I think I forget who's at the built like it's none of its geographically close.

I mean, it is relatively, but, you know, you're you're traveling.

You're moving between these places.

And so it's not like you can kind of just show up in one spot and Uber to another, etc.

You're you're moving around in a larger geographic area.

And I mean, you know, to dovetail into it, that's coming off of two weeks of

Mekum being at Cassini and doing literally two weeks for the cars.

And, you know, what they claim to be is the largest amount ever sold at a continuous auction.

Well, what was those numbers?

Yeah, I apologize for looking at my phone, but no, no, no, no, no, no.

And I know we dumped on Mekum a little bit in their sausage casing shirts last week,

but we like Mekum and they delivered this year in Cassini.

So there's a white 250 GTO.

That's a very special car.

They advertise for over a year.

They've been showing for that car for 12 months.

So what was making the rounds of events?

It was one of the events up here because it was a car based in the Pacific Northwest.

You were there with us at Car Week right at Mekum when it was out in the middle of a field,

right? In a glass box or something.

But that actually went for 38,500,000 dollars, which I thought it'd be more.

Yeah, it's a story in history.

It's that we're like, I don't know the history, but it has racing pedigree.

Yeah. One of the few white cars or maybe the only white car.

It's the only factory white one.

OK, yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, can you imagine like the world that we're in where we're like,

a car went for 38,500,000 and we're saying like, gee, that's all.

And I was going to say, it's not the place, but.

Well, they do, you know, Mekum has done a really great job of bringing in.

I mean, they tried to do Jerry's 917 last year.

And that was really just an advertisement for it sold.

It sold afterwards.

And I think the high bid there was 24 and change.

So they did.

Four hundred and forty one million in overall sales.

January the 17th, so a few days ago, they had the highest single day auction

in in automotive auction history of 259 million in one day.

Yeah.

You had the Bachman Ferrari crew election, which was a yellow

Enzo, a red F 50, a yellow

and a perta and a 288 GTO, a red 288.

So for 125 collectively, I loved that lightweight GT 40.

That would have been my choice.

Yeah, I think that brought 13.

OK, well, let's go back to that Enzo for a minute, though, Michael,

like what made that Enzo worth that number?

Because that's the hundred and 125 is for all four cars.

So you had it.

But the but the Enzo went for what, 17 million?

I don't have that.

Got it right here.

Seventeen point seven five million.

It's yellow. It's got only 649 miles.

But every one of the ends is usually go for nowhere near that, right?

Enzels are high. Yeah.

High. High.

Seven digits.

High seven digits, you know, nine, ten.

You know, I thought I mean, it's just I mean, to me comes credit

in that organization's credit.

They they, you know, they

they do well.

Yeah, first in the pudding, I guess.

There was a conversation with Dana

who's last year, the year before at Monterey.

And I'm probably spilling the beans a bit, but they, you know,

they actually are doing better on the financing of these cars.

First, you know, they do obviously a very good job of selling them,

but the financing has been another revenue generator.

And that's why if that's a whole other level of this, this

this ecosystem that we're seeing going on, because, you know,

you don't get that a bring a trailer.

You got to bring your own financing.

You don't get that a car isn't big.

When you can walk into a Barrett Jackson, you can walk into an R.M.

You can walk into, you know, a meekum and and buy the car and finance

it all at once. I mean, yeah.

Are we separating the have and have nots?

They're starting to do what car dealerships have always done.

I mean, they always say that that's where they make their money to

is in the financing, extending the loans.

There's no cross shopping though.

And you're sitting there with a man in a sausage casing shirt,

you know, trying to sign on the dotted line and get out of Florida, right?

I mean, you're you're kind of sign in where they tell you to sign.

And so, you know, captive audience, I guess.

And but you know what? Good on them.

Even better. You want it. You want it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so I guess the larger question is, and then we can do a postmortem

after after Barrett.

But what does that portend for the greater market?

Because that there is a trickle down effect.

And we're I know we're going to talk about a little teaser for the audience

to stay tuned.

We're going to talk about the the Haggerty bull market and the cars

that are represented there.

But that does have a trickle down effect to cars that that are

enthusiast cars or cars that maybe we we lust after for for various reasons.

And if prices are elevated because someone's financing it or someone's

willing to pay an extra amount at an auction, what does that mean for

the rest of us?

Because that's why I feel like the first couple of months of the year

kind of set the tone barring a major economic disaster, which I'm

not rooting for.

Like it sets the tone for the rest of the year for the rest of us

that want to do things.

Yeah. Yeah.

Stocks are down.

401ks are down.

Cars are up. Apparently.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

No, I was going to say, I like that he's saying the rest of us like we could

have been in the market for the Enzo were it not for me come extending

financing to those in the room.

Well, we can show up and they can go and apply.

Yeah, what is it?

Dress for the job you want like ask me for the one.

Yeah.

Dress for the dress for the job.

You drop you want their dress for the job they want.

It's obvious.

Yes, you know, so some sad news, though, out of that auction came out in

the news.

I think yesterday there were three guys from Ohio just regular, you know,

guys that had gone down for the auction had rented an Airbnb.

I think it was they had a rental car.

They had some trouble with they were standing out in front of their Airbnb

with this car waiting for a, you know, a new rental car or something.

And there's this crazy next door neighbor of the Airbnb that shot and

killed all three of them.

So really a terrible tragedy and Lindsay, I think as you alluded to,

this is a guy that had been already been arrested for shooting into cars

or something.

He was arrested on attempted murder five or six years ago.

So I'm not sure how he was out, but of course, you know, I mean, you never

want to see that ever, but I think it hits home for the car community in

this instance, because it could have been any of us attending that.

And obviously, you know, our hearts go out to these guys and their families

and just, you know, we got to go.

Meekums, of course, had nothing to do with Meekum other than the guys were

there, but, um, but Sadge is the same.

And, uh, yeah, really, uh, so keep your wits about you heads on a swivel.

Absolutely.

You know, we'll hear from Dan and the rest of Instagram about Scott still

here by the time we record next week.

So I'm very curious because, uh, with world events and everything else,

you know, what's the consumer confidence level or to your point, Michael, does

it not matter because, you know, that's just a pittance to these folks, right?

You know, 17 million here and there.

I've, I've been watching, yeah.

Well, it's an interesting group because you bring up a very good point

because I, I've been watching, uh, you know, when, when did they start

really broadcasting Barry Jackson on like speed channel?

What was it?

20 years ago, 15 years ago.

So it was a while back and yeah.

Yeah.

You saw, you saw Friday, I forget if they did Thursday, but you for sure

saw Friday and Saturday, right?

Well, they've been running live streams on YouTube all, you know, since Monday.

Or excuse me, since Tuesday.

And like just before we started recording, I was, I was catching

it for an hour or two.

They're selling six-figure cars on a Wednesday, you know, and in, in, you

know, I mean, by the way, beautiful automobiles.

No, you know, I'm not saying that the product's not good, but for a Wednesday

night, right?

It's not the biggest, you know, the action hasn't really started.

Maybe the big buyers haven't shown up and they're still selling high five

figure, low six-figure cars.

And I'm thinking like, where is this, like, where's this money?

You know, this, this is not all foreign money coming in.

Like what, like these people are spending real money on what it would

arguably be a quote unquote off night.

And, and, and what does that portend?

Again, going back to my earlier statement or question, really, like, what

does that mean for the rest of us as we try to find, build, fix?

I mean, we'll talk again, going back to the Haggerty Bullets, like those types

of cars that people are bidding up fairly, unfairly.

We can argue that.

But, but there was, there was multiple six-figure cars the last two

hours before we started recording.

Crazy.

We're just crazy.

Well, to bring this back to last week's episode when we had our friend

John Wiley from Haggerty on talking about the 2026 bull market list.

So you got some big money.

What's that?

Thanks.

That was a fun one.

He's great.

He really knows his stuff.

And, you know, just to, to recap the bull market list, these are the cars

that Haggerty expects will rise appreciably in value.

There were some surprises for sure.

Most notably that hundred thousand dollar Pontiac Aztec, but it got me

thinking because, you know, there's queer GT on there, which is, you know,

no one's, but there was some, some much more modest stuff as well.

And it was definitely a thought-provoking list.

And it was interesting to kind of hear it from the horse's mouth and

have John go through it for us.

Yeah.

Go back and listen.

If you, that was a really good one, or even better yet, watch it on YouTube

or on Spotify video, because we've, you know, got photos of all the cars

he's talking about.

And it was just a great conversation.

And incidentally, one of our most successful shows to date when you look

at the metrics around who watches or listens to the end.

So if you missed it, make sure you go back.

I think you're going to like it.

And then tell us which ones you disagree with.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's, you know, now obviously he has got algorithms and, you know,

research and, you know, all this, whatever behind it.

But it got me thinking, if we were to each pick three, that would sort of

qualify for our own bull market list.

Where would it bring us?

So I had three come to mind right away.

I don't know about you guys.

Ladies first.

Come on.

Let's be gentlemen.

Hey, well, Lindsay, what do you, what do you have?

All right.

So initially I went, Oh my gosh.

I don't know.

And then like you said, Ryan, they three rather quickly jumped into my head.

So I had a couple criteria.

And the biggest one was cars that are still currently attainable.

Cause I feel like that's in the spirit of the bull market list is

they haven't quite taken off, but these are for that career GT.

Right.

Except for the career GT.

That was a hilarious, like we're just going to put that there and see who's

paying attention.

So cars that are still attainable and the three that I shows are right now.

There are obviously outliers and you know, one of them, like you really have

to look, but they are out there, but they're becoming harder and harder to

find, which is why I thought they warranted inclusion on the, that car show.

2026 bull market list.

But we got to come up with another name.

We can't take bull, maybe the bullshit market list, right?

There you go.

That's what we call it.

The, that car show, the BS list.

This is the first annual BS list.

Your kids college fund car show.

By the way, I like that I'm in Seattle, but Ryan has the pike place mug.

Very nice.

Oh, good, good, good, good, good.

Nice little strike for those paying attention.

Yeah.

I almost grabbed the steering committee mug, but you know, I don't want

to lead our brand.

So you had to go all the way to pike's place to get it because

Lindsay couldn't send you one.

Right.

Um, so, and the three that I chose are all daily a bowl and there are

examples of all three available for around 25,000.

So that was my kind of guidance.

Okay.

So the, and the ones that I like when I say a car, the example

that I am intending is all stock.

Okay.

Not heavily modified, but that was the spirit of John's list.

Really?

Yeah.

Like, you know, do with it what you will once you acquire it.

But I was thinking of stock examples.

So the first one is a Honda S 2000 and obviously if stock again,

but one of the things I like about it is that they are easily modifiable.

Sure.

It's a lot of bang for your buck and they make good track cars.

Uh, they came with three different engines and one of them,

the AP one has a factory red line of 9,000, which is pretty good.

And right now you can find a decent example for 19 to 25,000.

So really still that's not bad at all.

You know, it's really like Honda.

Yeah.

You know, all that comes along with, with that, right?

Yeah.

And like the people that the people that I know that have had them love

them, like really enjoy them.

There was one that used to go to the track with me consistently

and the guy just, you know, drove it hard and really enjoyed it and

was thrilled with the performance.

So versatile and yeah, I think worth considering.

Uh, shut it.

If I may do our friend, uh, Evan Lewis, uh, front of the show,

photographer, uh, he's on his, I think third 991.2 GT three RS, uh,

and enjoying it very much, but made a point of going out and finding

a really good S 2000 and, and he swears up and down that he enjoys driving

that car, you know, in its own way as much as the, as the 33 RS.

So, you know, that's awesome.

Well, we have the Evan Lewis stamp of approval on the car.

Number one on the BS list.

So moving right along, uh, the a second gen Subaru WRX STI, of

course, blue, um, again, a lot of bang for the buck.

They're easily modifiable, but they're really fun stock also.

Definitely daily a bowl, but you could take it to the track.

You could take it in the canyons.

Um, really a lot of the Hawkeye, which one is that?

Uh, I think this is the, yeah, it's not the bug eyed one.

Okay.

Right.

Which also has its charms, especially in yellow, but, uh, yeah.

I mean, you came around with blue with gold wheels, right?

No, so, so good.

And I feel like those were just such good cars and unfortunately

they haven't really gained much power over the years, um, which

makes me really appreciate those early ones even more.

They're just inherently good, right?

Yeah.

They didn't over promise and under deliver.

Like I, I feel, you know, a lot of cars.

Yeah.

So that's number two.

And number three will not be a surprise to anyone.

Hey,

sorry to pee.

All right.

Wait, wait, hold on.

I think it starts with a pee.

I'm going to say it starts with an F.

I was going to say Ryan, uh, has guessed it.

Okay.

Uh, a stock fifth generation Eddie Bauer Ford Broncos of 92 to 96,

which was the last year of the classic, like what I consider the

classic style, um, prices are holding on those.

You can find them around 25,000, but a lot of them have a ton of

miles on them.

Um, I was actually on the way to look at one in California

within the last six months.

It was a gorgeous example, you know, the red Eddie Bauer and

it had low miles and it was, I want to say it was around 20,000

and of course it sold before I could even go look at it.

Really?

Yeah.

Because have you, have you driven one of those?

Yeah.

That, so Ryan, the reason I bring it up is in the nineties,

they still had a twin beam truck front axle on them.

Okay, right.

And for a live axle, it is incredibly smooth.

Really?

Those trucks, oh my, you wouldn't think it.

It's this big lumbering thing.

Now you can't callings.

Uh, what's, uh, right?

It's a, you can't, they don't modify well suspension wise and

whatnot, but, but just as a stock truck, it is shocking how

well that big lumbering thing like floats down the road.

Interesting.

Um, yeah.

It is, they're, they're, they're, they're spectacular as far as

just like a get in it, drive to, you know, Pike's Peak, drive

up to Vale, it's comfortable, it's got power, it's got room.

They're incredibly good drives for, I mean, for what they are.

You're not, you're not canning ripping at them, but they're

just like, they're do everything.

Yeah.

I like all those.

One of the many reasons I love them.

And cars just don't ride like they used to, right?

Like those big American cars with their trucks or old

Lincoln's or whatever, they just had a, you know, Rolls Royce

to say that they would waft or whatever, right?

You know, but those cars would waft, right?

I mean, there was a waftiness about those, those cars for

sure.

So to recap, Lindsay, your three, uh, bullshit market list cars are

a Honda S 2000.

Yep.

A second gen Subaru WRX STI and a fifth generation Eddie

Bauer Ford Bronco.

Good choices all.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I'm excited to hear both of yours.

So who's that John Wiley?

Ryan, you're ready.

You're ready.

Go, go.

Sure.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, please.

Um, you know, this is the kind of, the kind of thing I

can get into.

So I have three and then I have a couple of alternates as well.

You took the page out of my book where you're like, I did the

three and then I gave myself as many bonuses as I wanted.

This may be a two hour show.

This is not, this is not high school.

They don't offer you extra credit for bringing in more homework.

But hey, extra credit was what got me graduated.

If you found five that you love, I'm here for it.

So let's hear it.

All right.

Well, how about three I love and two that, uh, you know, are,

are, are close, but no cigar.

So, um, I didn't stick to any sort of, you know, price cap.

Uh, mine are, are, uh, nothing's too crazy, but the first one's

the most expensive.

All of them.

No, no career GTs, but I do have the 2016 Porsche GT four on here.

Now, you know, I'm still seeing these 2016's for 70 to 90,000,

right?

Uh, one of us here owns one.

Uh, I think they, I think in a lot of ways the, the 982 version

is a better car.

It's a little bit quicker and all this, but they made so far

fewer in number of the 2016, right?

And, you know, as John has told us, rarity factors into it.

Um, you know, I think most people tell you the 2016 sounds better.

Um, and it's just, it looks great, right?

You know, I think that's subjective.

Do you like the 16 or do you like the 20, you know, on or whatever.

But the big thing for me, it came down, I think to just rarity,

you know, they're just relatively rare.

They made them for one year.

Uh, and at least here in the States and, uh, and they're just,

just great cars.

And I think they're undervalued.

You know, I think they're only going to go up.

I think the seven 18s, the 982s are going to only go up as well,

but I think there's more of a gulf for the 16, the 981.

Um, so yeah, that's, uh, didn't pick the spider as well, because

as you know, in 16, the spider and the GT four weren't quite

as close as, you know, the later cars with the 982.

Um, the spider of that era is a lovely thing too.

Um, but it's missing the edge for a couple of reasons that the GT

four has.

So, um, I think you bought well, Lindsay and Tori, uh, and don't ever

get rid of that car because it's only going to go up.

And I think they're going to go up a lot.

Who are we talking about?

Was it John or someone else I was talking to the other day about

that, you know, the, the 991.2 GT three, uh, and especially the touring,

but the 991.2 GT three is a car that will always be worth more than the GT

four, but, you know, but that's going to continue to go up.

And I think that the GT four is going to close the gap a little bit.

I think it's so much of the, again, the inherent goodness of, of the GT three.

Um, so yeah, buy up all the good ones you can find.

Uh, and, uh, that may be easier to do than my second choice, which, um, at

least here in Denver, you don't see too much anymore, at least the good ones.

And that's the 1987 to 1994 Range Rover.

So the big boy, um, that is the first Range Rover that was brought to the

States.

Uh, and, uh, I fell in love with them then I, I, I begged, you know, pleaded

with my parents to buy one to trade in our, our Chrysler minivan, uh, uh,

which will come up later in the show, uh, for one of these.

And, uh, you know, years later, they were going to get a discovery too,

but, but there's something about that first Range Rover, right?

That 87 to 94.

And I have a soft spot for the later ones.

Um, you know, they, uh, there was a white extended wheelbase one that

they came out with, I think it was the County LWB.

And to me, that's the one to have.

It had this really high end ADS stereo system, which was cool at the

subwoofer in the back.

Um, if you had one of those with the car phone in the middle and

a little curly antenna, you were, um, so gangster and, uh, I, I love those

and you never see them.

And I think if you can find a good one, they're still pretty reasonable.

Um, and, uh, I would own one if I could.

So, uh, that's number two from either one of you, any experience?

Have either one of you owned a class over?

So the Range Rover I have.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

The fun thing and the interesting thing about that, that, uh, the V8 that

they use from like the mid sixties until the early, whatever, the late

nineties or whatever.

Yeah.

That's the, that is a Buick.

That's right.

You ever hear that story?

There's, I'm going to butcher the story, but, but for our listeners

that haven't heard the story, what was it?

Like Range Rover was in Britain.

Somehow, some way there was a discarded Buick V8 that GM didn't end up using

basically and, and somebody from, I think they went to, I'm going to butcher it,

but, but you guys, it's all over the internet.

Long story short, someone from, from Land Rover said, what's that over there?

It was literally discarded like in the side of a, of a, I shoot you not.

It was on the side of a, it was like, it was like in the corner of the building

of the, and they said, Oh, that's just a V, that's a V8.

We, you know, Buick never put into production.

And so they took the whole architecture.

That's amazing.

That, that architecture was from like the mid sixties.

Yeah.

And obviously they modified it a little bit, but that architecture ran

until what, like early 2000s, late nineties.

I believe so until it was replaced with a BMW.

It's the same, it's the same 48 that was a Buick derived Buick designed

discard from GM.

And so yeah, I owned one for a bit in Denver.

It was, it's just, it, they just get rusty, unfortunately.

That's, that's their great downfall.

I, I lost after the two doors.

I want to, you see the two doors, they never sold here.

So they, they three years ago at Pebble, they brought over a collection

of the Queens Land Rovers.

And it was stunning.

There's all sorts of fun stuff.

And there's pictures all over the, I definitely like

Pope Mobile-esque and the royal crest is on the door.

It's like, they're all beautiful, right?

Well, and all in her color of Claret.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah.

And they're fun.

They're fun.

So Ryan, go down that rabbit hole cause you're going to see some wonderful

stuff, but I two, I two door.

It's like not as big as the long wheelbase, but it's definitely a little

bit, it's almost as long as the regular wheelbase.

It is such a great, like that's a good pick.

That's a very good pick.

Thank you.

I just, I have such a thing.

I've never owned one.

You know, I've kind of, I don't know, segwayed more into the old G wagon

kind of camp lately, but I love those when I see one.

They just look so good.

And when those came out, you can, you have to take yourself back to that time

and remember how special those were.

And you know, it's just, it was, it was really the measure of success or it

was, it was something you wanted to own and unlike anything else.

And it just really was a statement piece in a way that I just don't know

there is a car that kind of is a statement piece in the same way now,

but, um, special, special things like that was, that was the sort of dawn

of the SUV age with SUVs were not everywhere the way that they are now

when those came out.

And I remember, you know, that became like very much a status symbol in New

Port Beach.

You know, that was the day we grew, you know, family car.

If you had arrived.

Yep.

And we've talked about, yeah, we've talked about when you could go back in

time and walk into a showroom, like what the peak year would be.

And you know, I think we talked about Porsche and Mercedes and Ford as well.

Well, 1994.

So the, the penultimate word, the last year of the classic Range Rover.

Uh, so, you know, 94, but in 94, you could also get the, uh, defender, right?

In the States, uh, at least the two door in the soft top two door.

Uh, and I think it was the discovery one that came out in 1994.

So in 1994, to me, peak Land Rover slash Range Rover slash defender in the

US and done and done.

But all right, I better move along.

Otherwise, again, this is going to be a three hour show.

My final pick is a car that's near and dear to my heart, even if I might not

be able to fit in one in 2026, but it is the 2005 to 2011 Lotus Elise.

Uh, this is a car that they're getting tougher and tougher to find.

They really are.

This was the car.

I think it was Doug DeMiro always joked about it was always the $32,000 car.

Well, those days are gone.

Uh, these have come up quite a bit.

I think a good one is closer to 50 or $60,000 more.

Someone's going to correct me.

Um, but it's, we've talked about, talked about this before.

It's one of those cars that it's on my bucket list cars.

You need to drive before you die.

Uh, and when they were new, my roommate, my buddy Andy got one.

It was a silver over red one.

He daily drove it.

We took that thing everywhere.

The two of us big guys stuffed into this little thing, but I have such

fond memories and well, it might not be so quick in 2026.

It's everything else.

It's quick enough.

It handles like nothing else.

It is a go cart that two grownups can fit in either.

One of you have experience with this car.

I have seen the outside of one, but I haven't driven it yet.

Is that all?

You've got to drive on Lindsay and you'd fit.

They're fun.

They're go carts very much in the Colin Chapman, you know, light,

lighter is better.

I think we'd be remiss not to give it its do is signifying how it

changed the world.

And you're both looking at me like, you know, normally I'm crazy,

but I'm going to go crazy.

That is, that is the, that is the Genesis in the basis car for the Tesla

Roadster.

Right.

So if you don't have the Lotus Elise, you don't have Tesla and you

don't have, you know, whatever direction the world is going to take

going forward, but Tesla's success was built on a Roadster that was

imported from England and basically just kind of slightly garage

modified.

I'm being a little facetious there, but I mean, if they don't have

the Lotus Elise, you don't have the Tesla Roadster.

I mean, that car probably should be very, very bored.

Maybe that's why the, the, the finances, the numbers are coming

up is because that without that car, you don't have, you don't, I

mean, maybe Tesla would have found a different car to base their, their

engineering on, but you don't have, you don't have Tesla with you without

that car, which I think is kind of a footnote of history.

Yeah.

That's a great, a great point.

It's funny because I think the Tesla Roadsters are generally worth more

than the Lotus Elise's these days, which is kind of crazy.

Oh yeah.

Now they are.

Because they didn't sell that many.

They, they didn't sell that many Elise's by and large because, you

know, it's easy to deal with, but I think they, I think they've, I think

they've managed, the aftermarkets managed to, to, to manage, you know,

to mitigate a lot of that.

It is one of the truly special cars and, you know, the fact that, yeah,

like Hennessy and others have, have put much more power than 190 horsepower

into these things, right?

I think is a testament to just, you know, what a great design they were.

So all right, the bullshit list continues.

Michael, you're going to have a, you're going to have a couple surprises.

I know you are.

Well, but wait, Ryan, you're two runners up.

Yeah.

What are you all there?

It's real quick.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Maybe we.

All right.

Okay.

A car.

I talk about a car you never see anymore.

The Honda Del Sol SI.

Oh, wow.

It was a car.

Not true.

I never see them.

No, we're going to do, I don't mean to interrupt, but round the, round the corner

for me is a, is a individual woman, very lovely neighbor of mine, two blocks

down, she has a pink, like pink inside and out Del Sol that she has the abbreviated

license plate of hello kitty.

I'm going to send that to you.

I'm going to send those photos to you tomorrow because she street parks it and

then you can use that as the thumbnail for this episode.

There we go.

There, there we go.

And that really kind of goes.

She drives it all the time.

Works just fine.

She, she's puts the top, you know, takes the target top off.

Yep.

It's a runner.

I had a friend in college who had not an SI, but they made like, you know, whatever

the, the lesser with LX or something, right?

And it was such a neat car because it had this removable roof panel that if I

recall correctly, you could put in the back.

It was, it felt kind of exotic or something, right?

It, it had, you know, it just didn't feel like, it felt like a Honda very much

so, but it also just felt special.

It felt like kind of a throwback kind of car.

It was just a neat sort of highly engineered little thing that I don't

think, you know, it was competing against cars like the Toyota Paseo at the time.

I mean, it was the last time you gave, you know, that a, you know, a passing

thought, right?

But the Del Sol was kind of neat.

And if you could find an SI again, tiny little thing that tried to fit in it in

2026, but a really neat car.

And then my other one that I went back and forth on about seriously including in

the top three is the original Jeep Cherokee.

I think it's the XJ if I'm not mistaken.

And that's a car that we had a couple in my family, a two door and then later a

white one with the burgundy interior, sort of the plaid seats, both wonderful cars.

Remember them driving very differently?

One was like an early, like an 8045 and the later one was like maybe an

88 or an 89 and so different interiors and all that, but never see a good one.

Occasionally see one here in Denver, you know, lifted or something.

But I like that, especially that first generation before they went to the round

or the, you know, the more rounded headlights and tail lights.

Yeah, that's weird steering wheel and all that.

Yeah, I just think those are neat.

Neat cars, 190 horsepower, straight six.

They felt pretty quick on their feet at the time.

Small, you know, by today's standards, really, really tight little things, but

wonderful cars.

Again, if you couldn't afford a Range Rover back in the day, a Cherokee

limited was kind of a, you know, a nice second place.

Well, and I, so Ryan, I had two friends, one in college and one after who had

two doors that were manual was.

Wow.

Is that what you guys had?

No, both of ours are automatics, but you know, I spent one of the best summers

in my life working in Dora County, Wisconsin, one, one summer waiting

tables and washing dishes in a yacht, yacht club of all places.

My grandparents had a silver two door.

I think it was a Cherokee chief, whatever that meant.

Yeah.

And it had a Blaupunk head unit in it.

And I thought I was the king that summer.

I just, I love that thing.

Yeah, just fantastic.

This is living.

Yeah.

So that's my three and three plus two.

I think it's going to be 10 plus a bonus because those are all good choices.

Those are great choices.

This is good.

Right.

I mean, you know, I think, I think the, the, you know, the, the, that car show

bullshit list, I think has legs, but I think it does.

All right.

What do you have, Michael?

I can't wait to, to hear.

This is, this is going to require a little bit of work on your, your part.

And either one of you seen a, I think it's like an 80s.

I think they were 88, 87, 88.

They only made it for a couple of two, three years.

The seven, the Volvo 780 Bertone.

Yes, it's chopped.

Well, no, it seems chopped, right?

It seems chopped.

It's so, so Lizzie, it's a two door Volvo, right?

Designed, designed by Bertone.

So it's, so it's got a little flavor to it.

It's got these really wild kind of two-tone seats.

It's a, it's, it's not really a two plus two, but they advertises a two plus

two.

It was a five cylinder Volvo motor.

It's the square body.

Like this, this kind of seven 40 style with the long nose, the

wear squared off nose.

I'm looking at it now.

So good.

That, that, but, but that is a perfect engine swap.

We'll go down in another podcast.

What Paul Newman had for his, um, he, he, he swapped out like

two or three different Volvos.

I think he lived in Connecticut and he would put at the time, you

know, this is in the eighties and nineties, like five liter Mustang

motors in them.

So, and David Letterman, he told Dave, he's like, this is what

I'm having made.

Do you want one?

So David has, Dave has one too.

Yep.

So, so I've always been a fantasy to take one of those two door

pitonies, put in like a, you know, a small block, whatever the

five speed and it looks good.

It's a cruiser.

It's got, you know, a decent stare.

Like it's just, it's very of its era, but you're never going to

see, you know, I, we've all been to, you know, uh, Radwood or

whatever, you don't, you know, again, lost to the ages of time.

Yeah.

So to speak.

Um, but, but, but that's been, I fantasized about those and search

for those for a look and they're super cheap.

But, you know, they're a full redo.

I mean, they're, they're not a cheap, you know, they're

that's an expensive proposition to renovate it.

Not so much to buy it.

That's it.

And when you, when you first said the Bertone, I was thinking about the

earlier, I think it was based on the 240.

That had a really tropical, the gasly thing.

That 240 is beautiful.

Equally gorgeous.

Oh, I think it's hideous.

I think it's hideous.

Oh, I love it.

I love it.

I have an eBay search for that 240 Bertone.

I like it.

All it keeps showing me is models.

Like I got small companies.

I can't find you.

Impossible to find.

Okay.

Impossible.

I think you could turn that into like a cool low rider hot rod, but stock.

I thought that thing was gas.

They're buying a roof.

They're both ugly as shit.

Oh, I think the newer one is really, really quite nice.

And it kind of was a precursor to, is it the C 70 that came out a few years

later, right?

Kind of, but the Volvo underrated, underrated enthusiast car across the board,

but that's a deep cut, Michael.

That was like a behind the scenes, like the making of the BS list.

Like there's fighting.

It's also kind of a workshop.

Here, you know, we bring up, and that was my, that was, if I had took

the issue with anything, I can only speak about one.

Wow.

A couple cars in the, in the haggardly list, but what's challenging

about, oh goodness.

Um, which I know, which I beg you to bang on the table and tell you podcasts.

Never bang on the table.

What's challenging about these lists is that the career GT not withstanding

and, but like, I, I haven't owned one, but I've driven extensively like the,

the, the M five, right?

Or, um, now that alpha GTB, those are always great, but I'll tell you flat

out, they picked the 454 SS and this is not me bagging on haggardy.

God bless them.

They do their thing.

They're excellent at what they do.

That's a car you buy.

It is rare.

Yeah.

It's boring.

It's heavy.

I mean, I don't have it.

That's not a 454, but it's the same by like, drive that car for six months.

And then you're going to get rid of it.

Right.

So, so when you look at these cars and if they, to achieve kind of a

grand national GNX status or the career, like how do you make them desirable?

Once you've driven them and other people drive them and say, Oh my God,

I want that experience too.

And I felt like this year it was a little lacking in that regard because you

could buy these cars and they're going up in value and they're cool, but

would you keep them or a friend drove them and much like to what you guys

do, especially Ryan, you know, we want to hear about your cars and coffee,

but like when you hand the keys to a friend and say experience this with

me and they're like, Oh shit, I need one of these too.

How do you further things?

And there were a couple cars and I promise you a 454 SS, which I've owned

and driven and they're boring.

They look badass though.

They look so good, but you can make any one of these look badass for a third

of the price and it's a 454 cubic inch V8 that makes all of 255 horsepower

and it'll get you about eight gallons to the mile.

Like it's the novelty is going to wear off and if it's 30, 40, 50 grand,

you ain't throwing anything in the bed.

So you can't even really use it as a truck.

Okay.

You know what's a better choice?

Maybe the Dodge Dakota convertible could have taken that one.

The Shelby convertible.

The Shelby, were they all Shelby's?

I can't remember.

Yes.

The, the, the, well, you may be, I forget.

You may be right.

I don't like that, that, that target bar or whatever.

Yeah.

The halo bar.

Yeah.

Those are same problem there.

Rusted out, but again, not fast.

Like you had this, you're, you ever seen a, a, a, a, an omni GLH?

Sure.

It goes like hell.

Yeah.

Goes like hell.

I mean, like they're, so these cars are grand national.

There's the fine words.

I know I'm like, well, I just looked up the Dodge Dakota convertible.

I don't think anybody would look at that silhouette and expect a lot

of performance.

That is a, that is a performance art driving that.

That's where our nostalgia and that's where the, like, that's

where we're, we're, we're, we're out of an age group that, that is

at the middle of the Venn diagram, right?

Cause we, we heard about the sixties performance and got to experience

it one way or the other virtue, you know, you know, seeing it or,

you know, being in the passenger seat, then we saw the eighties and

nineties where they tried to do performance, right?

And it was, but yet, you know, you know, the, the E 36 M threes and

all these things that are like going up in value, but they're not really

that fast.

But then you get into where we're at now in people with, with, with

significant money or rush, you know, the rest of modding everything.

I mean, singer is a singer is the perfect example of overspending on

something that wasn't very good to be.

I mean, it was, it was good at, at what it was at the time, but like,

it was, you know, there was ancient and, and they're spending a million

dollars on a car that you could have bought for five grand 15 years ago.

And they're not to say that the car is not brilliant, but like they're

changing what it was.

It's, that's not the thing.

And so we're at this weird intersection of you buy these cars and

then what do you do with it?

And, and, and is it, you know, I took a little bit issue with like the,

the, the, what N D or N a Miata that they had.

I mean, the first thing you, or NB, you take that Miata, the first thing

you're going to do is either throw a supercharge on it, V eight, swap it.

Like, you know, you're not just going to go slow.

You're slow and, and especially to, you know, as Ryan, you're going to

talk about your experiences with the loaner cars you've had in a minute.

Everything's fast now.

Like the, well, not everything, like, well, but whatever you throw, as you

talk about these two cars you're going to talk about, they're both

faster than that Miata.

Oh, it's, it's, it's true.

It's true, especially an NB, you know, I think, uh, you know, the NBs

seem slow, but they're quite a bit quicker even than the NBs, right?

But I think that's the fun part because you can buy the stock one and then

you can change it the way that you want.

You can make it your own.

It's true.

But then again, then real quickly, then when we, then we move past them,

how, why it's a valuable, why a value car, right?

Then why it's an affordable car.

All right.

Real quickly.

Well, let's finish this out.

Um, I think somewhere we're at 41 minutes.

This, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but everybody, everybody knows I'm

long with the sleeper car.

Honestly is the, um, what is it?

The 0708 RS for convertible.

They only made like, they only made like 400, like literally only

made like 300 a year or 400 a year.

Yep.

Um, they don't have, I owned an, I, I could tell you a whole other story about

my S four, my O two S four, which I loved to death until I got someone

hit it while it was parked.

Those are great cars.

Um, yes, they're not the fastest of that era with the, with the C class and

all the rest of it, but it works great.

Like, especially the RS four, cause it's got the improved timing chain guides.

Some generally bulletproof, but, but they literally made like 300 a year.

Those things are here.

That's a car I've, I've almost forgotten about.

We talk about the sedan quite often and I have a couple of friends here who've

got them.

I owned the, the S, the non RS, but the, the, oh wait, the last year of that,

that yeah, I had to know, I don't know four.

Yeah.

Which is more or less the same car.

Yeah.

But that convertible, Michael, you, you know, that was a rare, rare thing as

you've illustrated and it had a completely different interior.

Do you remember that?

Then the sedan dash, hold it completely different, but it still has the, it

still had a good, it had more bracing.

So it was stiffer than the, than the sedan, but it had, it still had that

aggressive kind of, you know, it had the haunches.

Yeah.

It was beautiful.

In retrospect, maybe even the better looking of the two, right?

It just, I agree.

I, I like any car that kind of has a square stance and that very much had that.

I don't know if it actually had a shorter wheelbase or not, but it seemed like

a different car and yeah, that's a, that again, that is a relatively modern deep

cut.

So all right, how do you top that?

Last, lastly, a car that, um, that I owned that, that, and it will, this will

go on the record.

A, I owned a 92, but, um, the 90, the 90 through 95 ZR one, the C four Corvette.

Yeah.

The car, the, the interior is garbage, but the drivetrain is that car.

That's a low, that's a Lotus design.

It has no, it has no shared parts with the normal 5.7 350 VA is a Lotus

designed, right?

It is completely Lotus design built in England or a engineering and built

in Stillwater, Oklahoma from Mercury Marine, the, the, the, the, the boat.

Right.

That's right.

Um, 32 valves, 16, uh, 16 injectors had a power key, right?

You could go from 275 to, it was 375 and in the later years, it was 405, but

that thing, it had a ZF, so it had a ZF six speed, one of the early six speed

boxes, bulletproof that car drove so well.

It sounded, there's nothing that sounds like it is 400 horsepower or 500.

Uh, 90 through 92 were two or 375 in 93 to 95.

When they stopped production, they were 405 and just that car ran, that car ran

with a good exhaust.

Yeah.

I owned a 92 that was cocaine spec white on white.

I love it.

I had a coke, I had a cocaine spec white on white.

Um, I mean Deluxe people would give you, especially once they saw the interior,

but yeah, yeah, and it rattles like, like the car is sure, sure.

It's not in the car.

It's horrible and it all works, but it, it ran, it steers really well.

Yeah, it rotates very well.

I never took it on track, but you know, you do some spirit of driving in it.

It's, it's a better car.

And you think it is, and that, uh, Highmiler is in the teens of collector

grade is, is 40, 50 plus.

But then again, it's going to have all the seals are bad.

Like it's, you know, it's a problem, but you could, you could buy one

for 20, 25 grand and drive the ever living snot out of it.

Tons of aftermarket support and, you know, our pal Brian Rudin, uh, who's

been on the show who has, among other things, uh, Diablo I've driven

and F 40 I haven't driven yet.

Oh yeah.

Dino goes on and on.

He just picked one up because it was like these other cars, a poster car

for him when he was in middle school, high school.

I think he paid like 25 grand.

It's a really nice car.

It's not, you know, a concor.

We should, I'm happy to coach him through it because there are some

things that those things need, um, not just maintenance wise, but also the

only thing it needs is just an exhaust.

You don't need to cut the headers out.

You don't need to do all the crap.

You don't need like none of it.

You just, oh, it's so much fun.

You should, you know, you got it.

You got to get behind the wheel.

Yeah, no, I plan, I plan to, you know, and, um, you know, we talk

about the Diablo, right?

That he's got in the auto blog article I did.

I refer to it as, I don't know, like a cigarette boat or something, but I

kind of feel like, you know, the, the ZR one is that same sort of vibe.

It's all fiberglass and literally a marine engine, right?

Um, or damn close, right?

No, no, no.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's as close as you can get because people forget at one point

GM owned Lotus, like fully owned Lotus hired them to, to engineer

a brand new engine.

There was all sorts of, you know, obviously backroom drama.

And then they, they outsourced it to a, you know, Merckney Marine

and still water Oklahoma to build the actual motor.

It's amazing.

Um, Tim Allen had, had GM put one in a Impala SS for him.

That's right.

Uh, Boyd Cottington put one in a, in a OBS truck, a 92 or a 93.

Um, they're, they're remarkable engines and sound.

I promise you 32 valve, just 16, 16 injectors, individual runners,

like, you know, as complex as anything of its time.

Um, it just didn't, the, the downfall was it didn't look that much

different than a regular Corvette.

So when you walk into the showroom and it's $30,000 for a Corvette

and it's $70,000 for a ZR one, you're like short of the motor.

Like, what am I getting?

And you know, that was bad marketing, but that thing runs.

And for a reasonable amount, it runs Lindsay, you know this back

in the day, when those were new, you would check the taillights

of every Corvette of that era you saw in hopes that you'd see

the squared off taillights and that it was a ZR one, right?

I would tell you.

Yep.

But that's, that's what you couldn't do.

There's only two places you can see where that's a ZR one.

It had, it was the only one at least until 96 that had a stop lamp up above.

So, you know how it had the hatch?

It had a third brake light up top.

But instead of on the deck, yeah.

Correct.

Instead of on the back bumper, it had a stop light.

But the other thing you could tell is when you looked at the license plate

surround, you have the license plate, right?

And it was called rectangle.

And then the, the mounting point was the, was this black frame.

It was like that thick.

Okay.

The ZR ones were wider because the car is an inch and a half.

It's three inches wider in the rear.

The doors are different.

Interesting.

Everything from the cowl back is different.

The doors are wider because they have to flare out more because the car is

literally three inches.

But you, but to the average person, they didn't put flares.

They didn't do all the body mud.

It doesn't look any different.

And I think when you're spending 70 grand back in the day, you wanted to, you

pulled the valet, you wanted to look different than the guy who's just driving

his run of the mill.

But getting that car, I think that is a 2026 Q one.

Well, whether or not was standing out there, you need to get in that car so

we can, we can hear your thoughts.

But more importantly, take that top off and hear what it sounds like.

So in college, I had a girl pick me up in a yellow ZR one.

And I thought she was the coolest thing in the world.

I later figured out that it was most likely her boyfriend's car and her

boyfriend owned a strip club.

So it all kind of tracked.

I was hoping you're going to say husband, but that's all right.

So it all made sense.

Yeah.

That's the first and last time I've ever been in a zero one.

I'll never forget it.

And you've got a great story out of it.

That's a better story than me on anyone.

That is a memorable story.

Well done.

Sometimes you got to do things for the sake of the plot.

Right.

That's, that's, that's right.

That's right.

Well, I think these are, uh, I guess nine or 11, depending on how you're counting

we have one alternate is what we're going to say.

Have either one of you, Ryan, you probably seen a lot out there.

Have you ever driven an Audi 4,000?

I have not.

Although my, I have an uncle who I believe still owns one has one in his.

I want to buy one.

I'm going on the record.

I want to buy the best car, especially in, especially in Colorado.

Yeah.

That and a set of snow tires.

Honest to God.

You can drive.

I drove that thing to steamboat.

Best car ever.

Oh my God.

If you could plan for the rest of the day.

Tall.

That is a statement.

Six, 60 minutes era Audi right there.

Oh my God.

I mean, I was your uncle's uncle owns one.

I want it.

Well, that's a car you just don't see.

And maybe that should be on a, yeah, on the next list, right?

But there, there you go.

There's the 2026, uh, that car show, uh, market list.

Yeah.

That's right.

So all right.

Should we move on?

Yes.

Yes, please.

But that was fun.

I, I, uh, I, uh, I applaud you both on, on very good choices.

So, um, well, you both had great ideas.

Well chosen gentlemen.

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All right.

So, uh, in the interest of moving on and not going too long tonight.

Uh, when I was thinking about those cars and they're all wonderful in

their own ways, it got me thinking, um, you know, what, what are the three

worst cars you've ever driven and why?

Um, because I've driven a couple of stinkers lately than they haven't

been pressed cars, but they've been rental cars.

Um, and you know, rental cars tend to, I think they continue to sell cars

to rental outfits after they go out of, you know, commission or out of

circulation for the general public.

And then as you both know too, uh, rental cars seem to be staying in

circulation a lot longer than ever before.

Um, I've had a couple of rental cars recently with, uh, with well over 50,000

miles, uh, which is something that you would not have had back in the day.

Uh, and the other thing that got me thinking about this is, um, I got

a letter in the mail the other day from, uh, Hertz, uh, they've put me in

collections for $52 over something.

I have no idea what, um, mystery charge, you know, um, and we hear about

all the shady shit that Hertz is doing with their, their car scanners and all

this.

Yeah.

So, you know, just send a, send a bill for $52 to everyone who ever rented

it from, from Hertz and that'll get you out of it.

Collections.

They didn't bother to reach out.

You didn't get anything about anything.

Nothing.

Collections.

Well, I love the surprise element of it where they're like, we're going to

do a penalty, but we're going to make it fun.

Uh-huh.

$52, you know, I mean, tell me what it's for.

Of course I'm not going to pay because I'm, I'm not.

I don't know what it's for.

I do it.

Do it.

You know, I just, I, I, I collections, you know, so.

So screw you Hertz.

Um, so we're going to dump on you a little bit here today.

Uh, and that got me thinking about the really shitty cars I've gotten from

Hertz, including a, a Tesla model three.

I've had recently, I think that had 60 or 80,000 miles on it beat all the crap.

Um, but the, but two of the three worst cars I have on my list are recent

rentals from, from Hertz.

So, um, but I don't want to go first.

Michael, you want to take this one first?

Three worst cars you've ever driven.

This is sounding less like the worst cars you've ever driven.

And I'm like, who's the worst car rental company that you've rented from?

I want to make that $52 Hertz inventory, which is, uh, um, Ford fusion is

undrivable.

It's just, it drives.

It just, it's just so many things wrong with it.

It's just so many things wrong.

It's just, it's a car that never should have been.

Um, they tried to sell those as police cars.

And I feel like in New York city, you still see them or did up until recent

the fusions.

Yeah.

It's just everything about it.

You're just like, uh, if Waymo was around when I had to read the fusion, I

would have taken away Mo and I am not a, I am not a autonomous driving person.

Um, Michael, they had the Aston Martin grill, lest we forget.

Do you remember that?

Yes, they did.

Um, I struggle with this one because there's just a lot of garbage.

There's just, there's so many.

And by the way, not because, well, a lot of times the cars are garbage, but

they're not meant for me.

If that makes sense, like there's just a lot of a lot of shit out there that

it's just, it's just no fun to drive.

You, you look around and be like, I not even, I don't want to be seen about

it because I'm not that vain, but like I'm worried I'm going to get home or

this is operating safely.

Um, so what I'm hearing is it's not them.

It's you.

Yeah, it's totally me.

I'm sorry guys.

I, I failed at this one cause I had fun with the, with the other one obviously,

but when Ryan said, Hey, what are the three worst cars you've driven?

Like there's just, if the world was a rational place, we'd all just be driving

Honda Civics, right?

Cause they work.

They get good gas mileage.

They're affordable or they were affordable.

Like, but everything else is just, you know, it falls into a category of lust and

want and, and are willing to put up with some quirks or it just turns into

a transportation and that's just, that's a lot.

That's a lot.

I deferred.

Well, the rest of the brain trust.

Well, it's funny that you said we'd all be driving that because I don't know

if he listened to Spikes show this week, but at the end they asked Jerry Seinfeld

if he wanted like what he would choose and he said a current Honda Accord

just because they had pictures of the court.

Yeah.

Interesting.

It's probably a guy who's never been to a grocery store either.

So like everything mundane is probably very interesting.

It's a novelty.

Right.

It's a novelty.

I mean, but when you think about like it's one of those things where it's almost

circular, like he's, he has this amazing collection.

I can understand the intrigue of like it's so different from anything else he

has, which there are a lot of cars in that category.

But yeah, he was waxing lyrical about the current Honda Accord.

And in the current one is probably the best one ever made.

And yet, at least here in Denver, you hardly see them.

Everyone's in a passport or a pilot or whatever.

But yeah, that makes sense with the weather.

It's true.

But you know, Ford said something with interest rates and just everything

that's going on in the cost of cars.

I think the average car now is $50,000 or more that they are planning to start

building more sedans because they're going back just to what we've talked about

this, everything is cyclical, right?

Yeah.

But but also factoring into that is the fact that, you know,

crossovers and SUVs have just broken that $50,000 part for the first time.

So yeah, I will say I do lust after a neighbor of mine who move recently had

a two door 90 90 windows, two door accords.

Oh my God.

So yeah, they really were.

They really were.

They were so good.

Just a simple like four speed four cylinder just to, you know, if Jerry saw

one of those, he'd own one of those too.

I remember when they redesigned them, I don't know if I think it was like

late early mid 90s, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it sounds like they were more soupy.

The soupier ones.

Yeah, it was it was like they were trying to make it look more like a luxury car.

It was a huge design.

So I think it was 1990, if I'm not mistaken, because I went in with my

the accurate, the accurate legend.

Thank you.

The legend two door.

Lusted after those.

Yeah, which by the way, great name for a car, the legend.

I mean, come on, you're setting the bar high.

But but 1990.

I remember going in with my parents that was that 90 to 94.

I think it was that that redone car.

You get the four door.

I'm thinking of the 94 or 95.

Okay, right.

For they really got sexy.

That's what I mean.

Like it was a huge leap forward.

Yes.

And they were all deal with the gold package.

Yeah.

No, those are the accurate.

Those are the accurate vigors.

Yeah.

Well, and the redesigned the like early 90s or no, it was

mid 90s suburban redesign, like 50% of those were teal.

You know, teal was having a moment.

Let's bring teal back.

If teal was on a Porsche, we'd be paying a premium for it.

Like we talked about it, the auto show color color.

Yeah, bring color to the world again.

Absolutely.

And let's bring simplicity back to this was the era we could get

a four cylinder or a six cylinder two door or four door and

you got a DX and LX or if you were really feeling rich and

EX, you know, and done.

And that was what you got, right?

You know, I don't know, simpler, simpler times.

Well, we'll always look back on the good old days, right?

All right, Lindsay, what do you have here?

Okay, so this was a struggle for me because one of the things

that I have noticed about myself is, you know, we're all very

lucky.

We get to drive a wide variety of cars.

Like people are very generous with their keys much more, I

think, than outside the car world.

So I, I love driving so much and I love trying something new

that it's very rare for me to drive something that I take

it overall as a negative because there's something about

just getting to drive a different car that I'm inherently,

you know, looking at it in a positive light.

Yeah.

So it was tricky.

I came up with two and then I had to bring in reinforcements

and ask Tori if he had any ideas.

Two are mine and one is his.

He's a good, what, phone to home or what are they called?

Yeah, I did a phone to friend and so, so I'll start with that

one.

Yeah.

Because he had lots of thoughts.

So he had a GR 86 at one point for, I believe less than

three months, he put maybe 900 miles on it, couldn't stand

it and ended up selling it back to the dealer like before

he had even put a thousand miles on it.

Was this one of the early ones with the torque dip?

I don't know that much about them.

It was in the last couple of years.

Let's say it was.

Oh, really?

Okay, interesting.

So maybe it was a newer one.

It was a new, yeah, he bought it.

Did he give any insight as to like, was it, I don't want to

call it an impulse purchase, but like what drove, what got

him there to say yes?

He was intrigued and thought he would enjoy it and thought

it would be a fun car and it turned out none of that was

correct.

So he said it had like copious, you know, nanny aids that

couldn't be turned off to the point where if the car sensed

something like up ahead, it would just randomly slam the

brakes on and so there were multiple instances where he

almost got re-rendered because the car slammed the brakes on.

That's a deal killer.

It's too bad.

Yeah, that was, you know, it doesn't make you want to go

drive around.

It had poor visibility.

It was underpowered.

He said it had engine, like fake engine noises piped into

the cabin, which is, you know, for a car enthusiast, that's

an immediate no.

He said the rear three quarter visibility was abysmal and

apparently those cars come with like a track day experience

and the car was so bad that he never even took him up on it.

Oh no.

Yeah.

I mean, I've driven both models, the earlier car and the newer

one.

I like them both, but both woefully underpowered, especially

the earlier one.

Yeah, that was this sort of torque dip.

So as you were running through the revs, it like the power

fell off, which is just a weird and sort of disconcerting

feeling.

That's not the way you want that curve to go.

No, no, you know, like the GR Corolla is just so much better

and so much quicker, you know, I just I could never see, you

know,

like committing to the GR a little bit more.

Right.

But that's too bad.

I want to love those.

I think they should have come out with a convertible version.

I think that would have been a real competitor to the Miata

because despite our complaints, it's still more powerful,

right?

Or at least was.

Yeah.

Do you have any experience with the 86, the the BRZ or the

there's also siams at the auto show two years ago when we

were doing our drives and you know, I thought it was fun, but

again, it's like any test drive where it's tough to really

form an opinion one way or another when you drive it, you

know, for three or four blocks.

Yeah.

I liked that it was a manual.

I was impressed that they had manuals available at the auto

show for people to drive.

Yeah, because you guys took the other manual, right?

Right.

WRX.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

So I was, you know, enamored of that.

And again, it's I was like, oh, I get to drive something too

and it's a manual and you know, the vehicle host was fun.

So yeah, you know, it's hard to really get a feel for the car

unless you get to spend some real time with it.

But yeah, so that was that in and this is throwing it way back

to probably 25 years ago.

I got to drive a Mercedes Benz SL 500 and I believe it was

the R three R 230 model.

Oh, so the peanut headlights.

Possibly.

Yeah.

I don't remember the headlights that like that finally.

But oh, you know, yeah, I was.

Wasn't an R 129 though.

Wasn't an R 129 like the classic.

No, no, it was the R 230 I believe and I was so excited to drive

this car and it was a hard top convertible and you know, I was

just jazzed and it was a friend's car and I was driving down

on the road and I was found myself very baffled and confused

because it was driving just like an 85 Bronco, which is fine

if you're driving an 85 Bronco, but not if you're driving a

fancy, you know, Mercedes Benz convertible.

So it was all over the place on that one.

Sorry.

It was all over the place.

Um, I mean, actually, I was just moving around or it just,

well, then I probably need to refine.

I need to refine my description because it's not fair to a

Bronco really.

I just, I was like, how do you, how do you succinctly describe

and contrast that the driving experience was not what you would

expect given what I was driving.

Um, the steering was really vague and the ride was really

rough and it was hard to tell like where the car was on the

road and it just, it wasn't the luxurious driving, you know,

luxurious engaged driving experience that I would have

expected from what the car was and the way it looked and the

brand and all that.

Um, but again, it was an interesting.

I was like, this is wild.

I did not see this coming.

No, no, that era of Mercedes Benz, at least for me is probably

my least favorite era.

Um, and there's just something about, so I don't know what is

that like the 2003 to like 2008 or something.

Well, I was going to say they were Chrysler, Chrysler infusion

in there.

Yeah.

So that, that was probably part of it that it wasn't, you know,

a true Mercedes experience or whatever, but sure, sure, sure.

Yeah, definitely.

You Lindsay, I had a friend who was so excited to get a first

nice car, you know, out of college, whatever and got a C220

or whatever it was at the same time.

I remember getting it.

Oh my God.

My God.

This isn't half as nice as my, you know, A4 that I had at the

time, I was really disappointed and just like, oh, so close.

Yeah.

Or not.

Yeah.

And I just, you know, at the time, I mean, like driving a convertible,

I didn't have any, I didn't have access to that in my daily life.

And so I was like, I just felt like the coolest girl, you know,

driving down the road and then not.

Yeah.

No, that's a, that's a.

So they look at your face and you look so sad and they're like,

why is this beautiful lady so sad in her beautiful car?

I'm like, zero out of 10.

Do not recommend, you know, that is, we've talked about Malae's era cars,

but I think like Mercedes-Benz was killing it in the 70s in the early 80s.

Right.

I mean, those cars are great.

They're still around, but that was the Malae's era for.

What's funny is it looked great.

Like I loved the design and, you know, so it was even, it was just

shocking all around weird era for Mercedes.

Yeah.

Um, okay.

So my third choice is it's a unique to me bad car because I love these.

And I know that they are highly regarded and they're sort of thought

of as like the peak, uh, you know, enduring example of this car, but

the only one that I've ever driven of this model of these, it turned

out it had been totally neglected, not maintained at all.

So it drove again.

It was all over the road.

Like the steering was, you know, was numb suspension was shot.

Like again, it was one of those.

Like the person I was driving it with, we kept looking at each other

and going like, this cannot be the car that everybody talks about.

Like something's not right.

An E 39 M five.

Really?

Oh yeah.

Which, oh yeah.

I've experienced that.

I love them.

And I mean, everybody knows I love BMWs, you know, like I, I, I went

in as a friendly audience and I was so excited to drive this car

and it was in beautiful cosmetic shape and it was the red, you

know, of those, which is such a classic car.

I love that body style.

I see them on the road.

I get so excited and it was the red with the black interior and I

was driving it to possibly buy it.

And again, it was like, what is it?

It's, you know, don't meet your heroes moments because you're

like, oh, this is going to be fun.

And then you think about, oh, I could modify it and like just

bring it up two tenths and then you drive it and you're just

like, this is boring.

Well, this one was like, this was just a poor example of turned

out, but you know, but it was, it was comical because of how

highly regarded those cars are.

And then to find one that was not representing the brand well.

Yeah, that's a car that I think more than most cars really

depends on, on condition.

And when I say that we're tuned, I don't mean that it's been

tuned, but just sort of the state of tune, right?

Yeah, I've driven a couple.

I've driven a really exceptional example and one when it was

still relatively new, but that had been beat.

It was a Michigan cars 2000.

It was the blue color and I didn't get, that was the first

time I've been in E39.

Oh, no, I've been in a 540, a Dynan and some other, you know,

same and they had torque and this car didn't have the torque

that, you know, the Dynan 540 had, you know, yeah, I was a

little disappointed too, but I think when those cars are

dialed in, they're pretty, they're sublime, but the problem

is it's got to be dialed in, right?

They're labor intensive.

And I think that's what's so interesting is like when you talk

to people that have a good example, like they just wax on

and on about how amazing they are.

And I like, I think that is one of the most timeless designs,

especially because the Bengal era followed it.

So the contrast was even more, you know, highlighting

how good the E39 design is.

So no, it's, that's more of like, it makes me laugh to look

back on how, how crazy that one was.

Right, right.

No, it's, that's a, again, a brave choice for the worst cars

you've ever driven.

No, it's true.

It's true.

I had, you know, I was fortunate of my dad bought a, a 97

six speed 540 and it brand new and it, it ran, it ran and two,

three years later replaced it with a 01 automatic 540 and it

was just like, it just, it just, it lost its soul.

Yeah, you were isolated, but you were kind of like, to your

point, numb, but like just, just, there was just, you drove

it like you would drive a Camry, you know, and, and, and the M5s

right to your point, like if they're maintained properly,

but like, you got to do the things.

You can't just like, you can't just let it sit.

It has to be, you have to do the suspension.

You have to do the right type of intake.

You know, you got to put a little work into it, but they

have potential, but unfortunately out the box or if you get

one that's heavily used, you know, worn down, they, they're

just, the juice isn't worth the squeeze sometimes, unfortunately,

but they are beautiful and they hold up, the interiors hold

up beautifully.

Yeah, I'll never forget when that car was new at the Chicago

Auto Show and I guess it would have been 99 or 2000 or whatever

and sitting in one and it was a dark blue with a camel leather

interior and I just thought it gave me sort of purpose to like

go out and get a job and graduate, you know, college and I guess

I graduated college at that point, but you know, it was just

it really, it, it, it was something to aspire to.

It was really special.

Yeah.

You're like this right here.

Well, steering wheel and that was, I don't know if anybody

remembers the, the BMW films that they made with Clive.

I have DVDs.

I can send you the actual DVD copy.

Yeah.

I think I, I have one around here too, like the DVD of the

series and that was the one that he drove.

That was also the one that they made the ad where there was a

big like cruise ship and it's on the water and then the car

drives by on the water.

Oh, I don't remember that one.

It was that era and five or five series.

So, you know, there's, there's a lot of like mystique and magic

around that one on top of how much people love them.

So it's even funnier Chris Bengal, you know, reared his

ugly head and all went to shit.

Right.

God love him.

Yeah.

Although that M5 that, that, that the, the car that succeeded

the E39 was on Hagerty's full market list.

So I know that's what was so, yeah.

Talk about a nice callback with bad rod bearings all the time.

But a V10, a V10.

No, they did good.

They and Audi, like they stepped up.

Like Audi's doing V10s, BMW doing V10s.

I don't want to say it's a bygone era because who knows what's

going to happen in the future, but it was like, I mean, no,

no, no passenger car was having V10s ever until they're like,

yeah, just here.

We'll just stick this thing in here and see what happens.

They did it.

All right, all right, I'm going to make this quick.

I have three, but these are going to be a bit of a letdown

after the E39 M5 being one of the worst cars you've ever driven.

So I'm going to go with any Chevy Malibu of recent vintage.

So I'm talking 2003 or 2007 to present, which they still make.

And it's basically the same damn car.

I've had several of these as rental cars over the years.

I was, I knew they were slow.

I was shocked to find out they are the base model, the rental

car spec are 122 to 124 horsepower depending on trim.

So, you know, you're getting spendy.

You get that extra two horsepower.

These are, they're still very popular.

Hertz again, Hertz, especially Hertz.

Pick it up a seed here with Hertz.

Well, there's no car that hurts quite like a modern Chevy

Malibu because it's just a throwback.

It's a big car, woefully underpowered again.

You know, they all smell like weed when you rent them from

Hertz and, you know, they still have like the, you know, the

the old school sort of infotainment and everything.

But so if you're starting out with a big car with 122 horsepower

and then you're at Denver, that car is already down to 100.

Right.

Just when you pulled out of the garage and as you go up, it

sounds like a traffic hazard more than anything.

It really is.

I had a buddy in one and we thought that was broken.

And then they gave us another one and realized it was just as

slow.

I mean, just a piece of junk, you know, I mean, they're okay

on the highway.

Once you're moving there, you know, they're kind of old

school and comfortable and all that, but terrible, terrible

cars.

You get momentum and it sort of builds on its downhill coming

back.

Yeah, no break.

It's got to be one of the slowest cars, you know, sold,

right?

And I think 2025 was actually the last year.

They finally put it to took it out of its misery.

Put it out to pasture.

Yeah.

Another one that that it actually has surprisingly a bit

more power, but just a strange car and then in its first

version, one of the ugliest cars in modern of the modern

era, and that's the Jeep Compass.

I don't know if either one of you have had the misery of driving

a Jeep Compass, especially the only one rental, you know, they

will force that thing on you, you know, if it kills them.

May we interest?

They had so ugly, 158 horsepower though.

So, you know, kind of a muscle car.

It compares the news is the good news is that Mother Earth is

taking those things back because they rusted like cheese.

So like they've been absorbed back into the earth.

It's funny.

You mentioned it.

They broke rod and so in front yard and then all that just

kind of reabsorbed into the into the earth.

Yep.

Absolutely.

You know, self recycling, right?

Yeah.

They are they are 100% recyclable.

I should probably just quit while I'm ahead, but my third

choice for this was a car that we own two of as a kid, but the

first gen Chrysler minivan.

We had the four cylinders.

You could get a six cylinder and I think it was a difference

of like 121 versus like 140 horsepower.

If you upgraded to the six, the Pentastar, I think it was, but

the thing that really killed those was that they had a three

speed automatic transmission.

Yeah.

Three speed.

A three speed.

And this was up up to the early 90s.

I think it had the speed or maybe got the force in 90.

Did you have one with wood paneling on the side?

We didn't because the town or country like like that.

No, we had the first one we had was the base and then we had

the middle one, which I think was the LX kind of like the

Honda model again.

And then there was one.

I don't know if it was the, or we had the SE.

That's what it was.

That was the sporty one that had the rally wheels, but I had

a friend at school whose parents had a, had a town and country

and it had the wood.

It had the infinity sound system.

Michael infinity.

You know, I know.

Oh, yeah.

The whole different kind of classic Cherokees.

Yeah.

It was all of their little equalizer.

The five, like it was like a five band or something.

Yeah.

Tiny little, you know, uh, chiclet, you know, buttons,

but yeah, that was, uh, so I'm going to push back on you on

that because that literally, like that's Lee, I coca that

saved Chrysler from like literally dissolving as a company.

So thank you for, for keeping a lot of people employed and

keeping Chrysler to wear it.

It the through line here is without you buying that minivan

and then Lindsay can't have that shitty experience later on

with, you know, the SL because Chrysler would have been about

been around to be bought by Mercedes if they didn't build

that minivan.

So that's right.

And what would her bad driving experience is your fault?

That's so funny.

And do you need to give credit credit where credits do?

Doug DeMiro can confirm this.

Um, they did do for a year or two, a four cylinder turbo and

you could also get a manual transmission for yes.

So the rare bird is the manual transmission turbo.

I think it was a Mitsubishi turbo.

Um, of course, this was the day, you know, the era of the

starry on and, you know, all that crossover.

Um, but, um, at the time it wasn't a bad car, but in retrospect,

it was a truly bad car.

But what was the car?

They had, it was the Dodge Caravan.

And what was the Chrysler equivalent called?

Voyager or the Plymouth Voyager.

Plymouth Voyager, Chrysler.

Chrysler Town and Country.

It wasn't, I think it was just the upscale because Chrysler

and I think Plymouth were sold at the same dealerships.

Dodge was its own thing, right?

Uh, you know, it was, uh, well, and what's funny about those

is they were very popular when they came out again, because

the, the minivan shape and concept, they created the minivan

segment.

There was not a minivan segment until that.

Right.

And so you could get a station wagon, which was not ideal

because you have the kids that are in the back where you're

facing seats.

The minivan with love of station wagon, love of station wagon.

I almost picked, picked that as my, my BS list because I love

a station wagon.

Oh, wagons there are good.

We're not going to get to it tonight, but I got to tell you

about my adventures in the new Subaru Forester wilderness

that I drove up about three quarters of the way to the

peak of Pikes Peak before I went around, but that was a throwback

cause that was the, probably the first car since a Chrysler

minivan that I've been in that had all that glass and, uh, it

was kind of a beautiful, a beautiful thing.

But, um, yeah, I'm so, you know, I don't know if we always

appreciate how good cars are now.

Right.

And, uh, it's, you know, we've come a long way from 1984.

How easy you brought up the Land Rover and people were spending

really big money back then, but they also like, people don't

put up with the kind of BS.

And this is not that the back then was better, but like people

were buying expensive Range Rovers.

And if it broke, they weren't that upset.

You go and you spend a hundred plus thousand range over now.

And, you know, you want to light the whole town on fire.

We put up with a lot more back then for Lindsay to your point

being seen in the, in the, I got here car, like I made a car.

Right.

People were willing to tolerate a less than stellar maintenance

record as long as they were seen around town.

I asked her, maybe it didn't, you know, it was your driveway.

So if someone knew, right, it never left your driveway.

Yeah.

I'm not stuck on the side of the road.

I'm parked here intentionally.

Um, I just thought of an alternate on my worst cars list and

it is one of the cars I learned how to drive in, uh, it was my

mom's car at the time, an Oldsmobile custom cruiser

station wagon, station wagon, but I will, I will always be

grateful to that car because it was the same length or longer

than a suburban.

So, you know, it really makes you learn how to drive in parallel

park and be aware of the size of your car.

But man, was that thing just a beast and not a good way to drive.

It was like driving in a park, a lounger, like, you know, it was

comfy, it was slow.

We did have the, you were smoking.

You know, Oh yeah, absolutely.

Uh, or no, this one might have had like, Naga hide seats.

Pleather.

So be careful where you ask.

Yeah.

I mean, and like, you know, those things are comically bad almost

because you step on the gas and the tail goes.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Cars just don't drive like that anymore.

You could run over your neighbor, your neighbor's house, the

mailbox, like you will be just fine.

Oh, absolutely.

And it was that it was middle gray, which meant everything was

middle gray, like inside outside.

Oh, really?

Oh, just look like concrete.

It's just just just color concrete.

That's like few cars give me PTSD, like almost none.

And that one I still like decades later, I'm still just like.

But now, now as a mother, imagine all the shit you could fit

not just in the backseat, but in the cargo area.

And you'd be like, that's a good Costco, right?

Six more kids, you know, that's a good Costco.

Think of how many, think about any Porsche parts or a whole Porsche.

You could probably fit a 350.

So you could easily put a 350, you know, a 1800 in motor in the back of

that.

So you could actually use as a parts runner.

I solved for that with something that's actually enjoyable to drive.

And that's the F-150.

There you go.

V8, that turbo six.

That one's a V six turbo.

Okay.

Because, you know, all those cars had V eights, you know, like that

big station wagon, you forget, you know, oh, I thought you were asking

about the truck.

I don't know the truck, but I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like all the, oh,

yeah, that, that, that Oldsville probably had a, it probably had a,

yeah, like a smaller visa or V eight.

Yeah.

It probably the same engine that's in that Range Rover we were talking

I'd be shocked if that one had a V eight.

It was not, yeah, it was underpowered.

Some straight six or something.

All right.

Well, we should move on.

We should move on and we are at an hour and 23 minutes.

So we'll, we'll try to keep this brief, but a couple of things I wanted to

mention, thank you to everyone who sent this in the Porsche 718.

So the Boxster and the Cayman, they wrap up their current generation,

the 982 with the best sales year of the whole run.

So this is a car that came out, I think in 17.

It is now 2026.

So nine year run.

But this last year, 2025, I think they're still making maybe just the

four R S's and the spider R S's, but, but this, this past year, 2025,

they've, they've sold more than they've ever sold.

And I think this is in part sort of a reaction to this threat that they had,

that had been living on this for the last couple years of it going electric.

Of course, those of us who have these cars, you know, we're kind of hoping

they wouldn't sell and stick to their guns.

A bunch more, but I thought that was very interesting.

You know, uh, speaking of which, uh, coming out in the forums and some

of the other, uh, you know, dark corners of the internet are that there are

some owners with the 718 GT4 RS.

So again, this is the, uh, sort of the top of the, this is the top of the line

Cayman.

So, um, you've got the standard cars, the two liter, the 2.5 liter, you

know, then you've got the GT4 and the GT4 RS.

Certain cars were delivered that had undertorked or loose drivetrain bolts.

Uh, and supposedly they were all cars that were built at Osnabrook and I'm

sure I'm butchering that pronunciation.

Um, but this is, uh, they, they call this the VW plant.

So apparently with this demand, that meant that some of these cars weren't

being built at Zufenhausen, but they were in fact going to this overflow plant

that also makes Volkswagen's, uh, and so, uh, that has been a rude surprise

to some folks, which, uh, I guess brings me to the question, uh, is it important

to you where your Porsche is made?

So, um, this happened earlier in the 17, 18, 7, 18 run as well, where some

of the cars were made at, let's call them offsite locations.

Uh, would you be disappointed, right?

I mean, you know, I mean, this is, this is a tale as all this time, right?

Some of these cars were, you know, well, well, I mean, you know, some

of the, uh, was it the G wagon?

I think at least for a long time was made in an Austria, right?

Would you be a G wagon?

Wasn't still is.

Okay.

So I can't speak to the electric.

I don't know if the electric ones are, but I, but every other G wagon since

the dawn of time has been made in Austria.

Okay.

Right.

Because of, uh, Steyrpuk or whatever the, I don't, I don't, I couldn't tell

you why, but I again, and maybe even the electric ones are too.

But every other G wagon since the beginning has been made in Austria and

to this day and continue to be.

And I guess you can, you can bring this down to like, does it matter if

it's even made in Germany?

Right?

I mean, you know, uh, and I bring that up because, you know, how many Mercedes

or BMWs are made in the States now, right?

Is this right?

Have we transcended this Alabama, right?

You know, South Carolina, South Carolina, is it?

Yeah.

Gartenburg.

Yeah.

It's part of Carolina.

North Carolina.

Garenburg, North Carolina.

It wasn't just the crossovers and the SUVs.

Is this a throwback to the, the, the days when, you know, there was a van

ice plant here in LA making Camaros and they're like, you know, you never

want a Monday car or a Friday car.

Right.

I mean, I think this is, I think what you, what you saw interesting about

Porsche was they were down for the year, especially with their China stuff.

But to your point, Ryan, you know, that model, the 17s were up, you know, with

the, at least in the first half of the year, the thought that it was going

away.

And so probably to meet demand, maybe they were a little quicker to get it

through the line than maybe they normally would have been.

If it had a cadence or it had, you know, it didn't have like an end date or

an expiration date, so to speak.

And then they revamped the whole thing.

It said, just kidding.

We're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to go back on that.

So I don't, I think this is a fluke personally.

I think just, you know, this is wonderful.

Now, I have heard stories of like a lot of those Volkswagen's, not

just the historical stuff, but even more recent stuff.

The stuff that's made in Germany has an actual different assembly than

the stuff that's made in Mexico, specifically for Volkswagen.

And that just may be the way the plants laid out and et cetera.

But I think the larger question is now that the Moroni label or the sticker,

you know, the window stickers, you know, Moroni labels a formal name for it.

Does anybody even look about where the final assembly occurred?

So Ryan, to your point, if the marketplace looks at that and someone

actually starts to point it out on a bring a trailer or whatever.

Is anybody going to blanch at it being not from Stuttgart or wherever?

The 356 is right.

There were cars that were made at, I'm going to mess this up.

There was a separate plant that made 912s and 356s, right?

That wasn't the, wasn't the Porsche plant.

And it's escaping me now.

And I don't know that those cars are considered lesser, but

they are considered different, right?

Yeah, okay.

You know, because they talk about, oh, this one was built here.

This one was built here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This group was built.

Yeah.

As soon as we hang up here, I'm going to remember the name, but I mean,

that's something, you know, in the grand in the, in the, in the row book

when we do the descriptions, that's something we weave into the narrative.

You know, it's part of the story, I guess, if nothing else.

And that leads me to the final thing we'll talk about.

There's so much we didn't get to, but we're already at an hour and a half,

which I think is some sort of record for a cruise show, which is a good sign.

But now that 718s, right, even a base 718, you know, is, is, you know,

$90,000 with a few options should Porsche come out with a car

that slots below the 718.

So obviously when, you know, was it 99 or 2000 when the Boxster came out?

It was a $40,000 car, right?

And of course, maybe when you factor into inflation, it's

not that different from $90,000 now.

But is it time to bring back a 924 or, you know, something

in the spirit of the original Boxster, right?

There's so much crossover anymore.

Yeah, Porsche has gotten so expensive.

I know when the Boxster first came out, it got a lot of, you know,

proverbial side-eye from people going like, well, it's the poor man's,

you know, Porsche and fill in XYZ.

But, you know, and looking at it now, there are people kind of coming

around to going like, that's going to be the next big thing in a lot

of ways, or it's something that's still accessible.

You know, you can pick them up and get a good deal.

So I think it made the brand accessible to a lot more people,

obviously, because it was more affordable.

So I think the question is like, is that what Porsche wants?

Or does it want to maintain the exclusivity that current pricing does?

Yeah, they're selling everyone they make, right?

So yeah.

So, I mean, in their mind, outside of like, maybe we can sell

more cars and make more money, it depends on what they want for the

brand, but it definitely allowed, like I knew people that bought Boxsters

and they were so excited that they were able to have a Porsche

and participate and buy into this brand that is a big deal and was a huge,

again, like a back to status symbol.

Like that was a big achievement at the time because it had seemed

unattainable until those came out.

I mean, and I think, you know, going back to the factory question,

unless there is a, like where everybody knows what the factory is,

I don't care where the car is built.

I just want to know that they're building it correctly.

So you don't end up with issues like what is happening now.

I mean, call me crazy.

Yeah.

No, I want a car where the drivetrain doesn't, you know, fall apart,

but I mean, I feel like it might be asking at least under warranty.

So long as it's still under warranty.

I think, I unfortunately think we've passed the era of affordability.

I mean, what are they talking about now?

The, the average new car, the new MSRP is over 50,000 on average.

And then you, what do they call it?

ATP actual transaction price is in, you know, for new cars is in the

high 40s, you know, so, so that is the new, you know, the, I don't

know where Porsche could be much below where it's at now.

Because that 90 is the new 40 or 50, you know what I mean?

Going back 30 years.

And so, you know, it's just nothing's getting cheaper.

And, and, and, you know, we're not going to get into politics and

inflation and all the rest of it.

But I just, I don't know that there's, there's no room because

when you can go buy a Camry or something that it's $50,000.

I mean, let's, ID buzz is the, is the perfect example, right?

Interesting car.

I think a lot of people like it, at least here in California.

Everybody turns their head when they see one.

And we can argue about the range anxiety, but the moment they see

it's $70,000, they're like, and they haven't sold.

I mean, they're sitting on, they, they're literally not going to

build an ID buzz for all of 2026 because they have too many to sell.

So proportion to try and move down, I don't want to say downmarket,

but, but quote unquote more affordable.

I don't know if there's, I don't think there's as much space there as

we think there is because they're just, they're just not, you know,

you're, you're buying $50,000, $60,000 Camry's.

That's it.

And what's in it for Porsche?

Because, you know, everything I hear from my sources say that Porsche

really wants to align themselves more with Ferrari, right?

As far as price points and all that.

So that's not the best margin.

Yeah.

I think Ferrari's margins are, I shit you not something like

it's 30% or, I mean, they, they have to report it on there.

At least their gross margins are on their annual, you know,

their quarterly reports and their margins are like 30, like you're

lucky if four GM and most car companies are in high single-digit,

low double-digit margins.

Ferrari's the envy of the world at like 20 or whatever it is.

20, 30% like you can go and look at their 10K or whatever.

But yeah, yeah, you just, you just can't.

Unfortunately, there's just no room, which, which is a larger

economic issue.

But yeah, would we all love something that was more obtainable

and Lindsay to your great point of aspirational, but, but still

feel achievable as the aspiration rather than it just be another thing.

You see a poster on a wall or someone else driving or you, you

know, you watch a YouTube video and, and unfortunately some people

feel like they'll, they'll never get there.

And that, that's, I hope we can get out of that mindset.

Yeah.

And I think at the end of the day, I'm not really craving a, you

know, a modern day, 924, even necessarily 914.

So, you know, and that 914, 914 6 is a hell of a lot of fun.

No, I know.

Well, I've never driven one.

I'm sure they are amazing.

I mean, it's built like a Volkswagen, but like, yeah, you

know, people are, people are, one of those Myers makes is the

room, you know, they're spending big money on a Myers makes.

I'd rather have a 914 6 personally.

Well, but, you know,

You should get a 1511, which is the sort of singerized 914.

I think is going to be the next big thing.

Check it out.

1511 out of the UK.

They're really, they're done to the level of a, of a single.

What, what, what, what's the number on the 14 in it?

A hundred, like two.

Yeah.

But, but when a singer now is a million and a half to start or

more, right?

Yeah, that's the parking seem like the value play.

So anyway, but all right, we better end this before, you

know, we just keep going for another hour and a half.

But this was fun.

Appreciate everyone listening.

Appreciate all the feedback and all that.

I give us your comments.

Tell us what you want.

Tell us what you think we got wrong or what cars we're missing

and more importantly, what part of the BS list should be on

everybody's radar for 26 by them first before you tell us.

I think this is the first of, this will be the first of many.

This will, this will be something we'll all look forward to

right in the years to come.

Michael, it's always a pleasure to have you sit in.

Thank you for the pleasure.

I hope you're having a great time in Scottsdale.

Lindsay, it's been fun tonight.

Just a reminder to please tell your friends, make sure that

you leave a review, a comment if you can.

It means the world to us and let us know that you're

listening and until next time we are that car show.

Lindsay and remember always be driving.

Thanks everyone.

0:00

97:17

Mecum and Go. And the 2026 That Car Show BS Market List

Porsche Spider

Buick V8

About this episode

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