Mentorship is the Beginning of Leadership

As a leader, you have to figure out how you connect to an individual to be able to inspire

them and then help them achieve the goals and dreams that they have.

It's interesting.

I think it's part of the joy of leadership is figuring that out because it's always changing.

Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Gannon and I'm your host. Today's guest is

Dwayne Myers, owner of Dynamic Automotive. Dwayne is someone who's been very intentional about how

technicians are developed inside his shops, not just hiring people and hoping it works out,

but building systems around training, growth, and long-term careers. In an industry that spends a

lot of time talking about the technician shortage, Dwayne has focused on what happens after a tech

walks through the door, how you invest in them, how you help them improve, and how you create an

environment where people actually want to stay and grow. Today, we're going to talk about how he

approaches technician development, what's worked, what hasn't, and some of the lessons he's learned

along the way. Dwayne, welcome to the show. How are you? Jay, thanks for having me. I'm great.

I'm great. It's an honor to be here with you today. What worries me about this podcast is that every

conversation I've ever had with you, I think we could go on for days with. We've got a short

period of time to talk today, and I think the reason why we've just always hit it off, and I

always appreciated your insights on everything shop-related. At times, I think you always have

good life advice as a whole, but then you're running a pretty special operation. For me,

selfishly, I'm able to take so much from our conversations, and I've learned so much from

you over the years. To have you on the podcast is a privilege. I'm really, really looking forward

to this conversation. I'm a firm believer that none of us know everything, and those conversations,

you don't know what you don't know, and when you have them, what comes out of it. Sometimes,

it's gospel, and there are great things, and other times, it's just ideas. When we chat,

you're doing with Ranchway and everything. You're doing so much to help our future, and really,

everything that, not everything we do, but a lot of what we do is just about offering

opportunities for people. It's as simple as that, and figuring out what people want.

Let's start, and thank you for that. I want to start with the layout of your shops. How many

shops do you have explain dynamic automotive to us in a way that the person that doesn't know you,

apparently, would be living under a rock, because I think everybody knows Dwayne.

Explain dynamic automotive to us. Dynamic automotive has been in business almost 32 years.

Currently, seven locations. I have two business partners, and I was not a founding father. I

came in two years in. I knew Lee and Jose. They both worked at the dealership, and I was working,

I was in the military, working on tanks. I went to heavy duty. I was working on that,

and at night, going to automotive classes in Baltimore, about an hour away, to learn automotive,

and my electronics teacher was Jose's boss at Capital Cadillac, and he connected us. When I got

done going to school, I went part-time. I started as a part-time tech. I went full-time when we

store number two, and then moved up into leadership when we built store three, which is the one I'm

actually sitting in today, which has the quick glue. Used to have a car wash. Now, it's Ados

calibration, and then the repair shop. Then bought into the company. They actually did

something that's very rare as they opened their doors and allowed me to buy in, which was probably

a really strong thing in my belief. It helped set my beliefs in giving people chances

and actually giving them opportunities to grow, and they helped me grow, and then eventually

became CEO of the company. We're still three partners. Each of us, as life has progressed,

they're at a little bit different stages. Still working in the business, still owners,

want to be owners, remain owners. I enjoy it too much, although it's challenging. There's a lot

of fun there, but not constantly. We're strategic about our growth, which we can definitely talk

more about, but we're growing, and one of the big drivers is giving our team opportunities.

When you were in that spot, and you're looking at becoming involved from an owner standpoint,

was that a difficult decision for you, or was that one where you're like,

this makes all the sense in the world. I'm just going to do it. I know early on in your career,

financially, that can be a big impact in trying to get together the funds to be able to do something

like that. Just walk me through your thought process there, because I have to imagine there

was a lot on your shoulders at that point. At the time when I originally bought in was around

2007-08, which was not a good time economically. No. I borrowed the money. I literally went and

got a big loan and borrowed the money to do it. I took advantage. You asked Lear Jose, they'll tell

you I was a good negotiator, but dynamic wasn't doing well then. We had opened this head open,

this Urbana store. We built it from the ground up, and it was a huge store, almost 13,000 square

feet. We went from two little stores to this, and we were hemorrhaging money. Me buying in did

help. It wasn't the savior by any means, but what caused me to want to do that?

Complete risk, because I'm already looking at bad financials, risk in the economy, and I'm like,

why buy in now? I saw the opportunity. I liked what I was doing, and I told them when I came full

time, I was either going to open my own business or I was going to do something with them. I don't

think they took me serious enough at the time until I was persistent about it. They saw that I

kept reinvesting my own efforts to Lear. I didn't just stay as a technician. I started to understand

financials. I started understanding the leadership side of things. I started understanding dealing

with banks, and dealing with problems, and customers. It's what I use to this day is when I

have someone tell me they want to be a leader in a company, I look and see what classes they pick

when they go to a vision, or they go to APEX, or they go to A-S-T-E-A, or whatever they do.

If they pick all technical stuff, they're still in the technical world. They start

getting in some leadership stuff, some sales training, something different. I'm like,

their mind is ready to be expanded.

Did you do any studying off hours back when you were coming up? I asked this because I want

young technicians to listen to this piece, or people that are in our industry that have that

desire to move up. You have your day job, which you learned at. The nighttime was for me. The

constant learner my entire life. I've always went to school. I've always learned. I always try to be

better because I just feel this industry and just in general will leave you behind if you don't do

that. I did that first technically. Then to grow leadership-wise, I would go to take classes at

night, not just automotive repair, but I would go take an Excel class. Sometimes they were doing

the day and the company would pay for it and pay me to go. A lot of times they were at night or on

the weekends, and I would invest in that because it made me better. It's like buying that one extra

tool in your toolbox. That's what it was. It was another tool in my toolbox. I would use my time

to do that because it was for me. I always tell people, training is for you. No one can take it

from you. If you leave today, you take all that knowledge with you. None of it stays on the book

shelf. Training to me is for the individual. Whenever it was available, I did it.

I think that's a common theme I've seen amongst a lot of the folks in our industry that came up as

technicians and really evolved to that next step was that they weren't afraid to to dive into things

or when I say that, they weren't afraid to take that class. They weren't afraid to go to vision

and take a leadership class rather than all technical classes. They were reading in their

off time or listening to podcasts. Maybe when we were growing up, the podcast piece wasn't there,

but now you see that I think with some high achievers that they're looking for ways to grow.

They're looking for ways to make themselves better and expand their skill set. I think as the years

have gone by, there's a clear delineation or difference between the technical skills and

the leadership skills and the management skills that are required from somebody that takes that

step. We've all seen technicians that came out of the shop that were great technicians and failed

once they got into the office. We've seen some that have done a phenomenal job of making that

transition, but I think those are the ones that have been intentional in learning something outside

of technical skill knowing that it's a different job. That's not the same responsibility. That

isn't the same requirement in terms of it's more than just you. You're managing a team now. There's

so many things that go into that that you didn't have to deal with when you were in the Bay.

Working on cars is hard. It's only getting harder. I challenge people that aspire

to move into leadership, and leadership is the word I'll constantly use. Even our location

leads, they are leaders. We have no managers here at all. I don't want them. I don't even

like the word. I've forbidden it for many of our paperwork. It's a mindset, but I tell them, as I

said, cars are hard. People are messy, and they are because it's not to see emotions. It's just

where they're at. Generationally, things are different. As a leader, you have to figure out

and figure out how you connect to an individual to be able to inspire them and then help them

achieve the goals and dreams that they have because it's interesting. I think it's part

of the joy of leadership is figuring that out because it's always changing. As soon as you

think you have it, something else comes along. That's for sure.

Isn't that true? Have you seen growth in yourself in terms of being able to lead a young person as

they're coming in? I know something that I hear commonly, as I'm sure you do, is that

this next generation, they blah, blah, blah. They're not hard workers. They're not this,

they're not that. Have you been able to kind of morph into somebody that's adaptable to all

generations? You walk me through that piece. You know, that's a hit or miss target there.

I want to say more so than before, but every generation is different. You have to learn

how to connect with them. It can't be one conversation. Usually, it's all not through

me now. Now I train our other leaders how to have those 101s and how to build that bridge

with them of confidence. They find out when you're actually there to help them grow,

whatever that looks like. They open up and are more giving, but people are motivated differently.

Certain generations that wanted to save the world, the current generation of our newest

team members, they want to make a difference. In not saving the world, they want to do stuff.

They want to do things. They want to learn and grow. They remind me a lot more of Gen X,

but each one is different. But once you find out what is it that motivates them,

then try to help them achieve that. I can't connect every time you try because sometimes

I'm not the perfect person. Sometimes it's Sarah or Paul or Todd that's on my team that can make

that better connection. I'm not sure why, but just know that you're not always the one that'll do

that, but keep trying. Those things will mature into a relationship that you can help.

I think the part that you had talked about there that I would pull out of that is

the need for consistent communication, the need for consistent leadership. I look at it when

I talk to a lot of shop leaders in that I try to make clear that it's your job to communicate.

A lot of leaders, I think, get frustrated when they're struggling with communication with their

staff. And sometimes it comes down to, like you said, different personalities, maybe not aligning

or maybe aligning better. But then taking accountability as a leader to say, okay,

if they're not hearing my message, maybe I'm communicating it incorrectly. Maybe I'm not

even the right person to be communicating it. I give you a lot of credit for understanding

that piece and then being able to kind of meet these folks where they're at.

I think one of the most important, two things I talk to our leaders a lot about,

there's a lot of things, they say I talk a lot. There's a lot of things I talk about, but one

of them is listening. And really, it's the why behind everything. No one goes to work wanting

to suck. I've said that to you before, is you have a team member who's been with you a while

and all of a sudden they start showing up late. Something's going on. It's our job to figure

out why, not just react, but actually help. What's going on and how can we resolve that?

Because you know what, we actually can resolve it more often than not. And it stops that turn,

well, they're gone, I got somebody new. That gets that tenure going, which imposes the culture

over time. It really is, you have to listen to them and then have patience. And they say,

when you have a lot of patience, I said, I've learned to be more patient. I don't have a lot,

be honest with you. My patience is short. I just have learned by using that tool, it pays off.

So it can be difficult, but you sit there and you wait, listen, learn and then advise. And really

mentoring is what's taught me that. Leadership's one lane, mentoring is another. And then you can

put friends. That's a whole other different one too. But mentoring taught you, your patience is

important. You have to let them be them so then you can help them. That really nicely transitions

into our topic of conversation for today, which is developing that next generation of technicians

and I think as we go through the life cycle of a technician, it'll be fun to go through and talk

about everything you're doing in your apprenticeship programs and then kind of all the way through.

I'd like to kind of take the conversation to where we walk through all the way to an experience

technician and saying, okay, how do we continue to grow these folks and talk through the career

path inside? But let's start by talking about the work that you're doing with young people to get

them into your shop, to get them trained up. And the reason I say that's a good transition is because

that part does take patience. And I think that's something a lot of our industry lacks, right?

In myself included, it is really, really hard to be patient with a young person. But I look to

other industries and my co-founder at Wrenchway started off as a CPA. He said, I went to school

for six years and then they still started me off at entry level auditing, right? And here we are,

we'll send a kid to school for a year or two, throw them to the wolves and be disappointed

in three months when they're not producing, right? So when we talk through that patient side,

I do want to talk through kind of that full life cycle and maybe give you the stage to first off,

talk about your apprenticeship program and the development of young people. And then we'll kind

of tie it back into that, the patient's piece. Something we've always done, Lee and Jose were

great examples of this, is we've always invested in our local school system. From day one, we actually

helped them start an automotive program. They had a failing diesel program that was going away,

and we helped along with some other local, some dealerships, local independence,

helped to actually shore up and create an automotive program. And we've been on their advisory

board ever since. Even though we're not looking for, even when we're not looking for help,

we still support the program. For it to be there when we need it, we have to support it when we

don't. So it's important, and that's really been key because more than half of our technicians have

come from our local school systems, and they have been grown from absolutely entry level up to

at, you can say our C level suite now, just as they've moved up over time. But yeah,

to start, we realized back in, I think after 2010, we really saw a decline in interest in our industry,

and not just from the student, but really the parents. Big shift, I mean, there was a whole

generation that really went to college that didn't join the trades, and we all know that.

But how did we counter it? Because we countered it with trying to create our own apprenticeship

program, and we didn't do a really good job. We thought we did, but an apprenticeship is never

ran one year slow, or it's a rainy day. You run it, what we didn't know is you have to do it

consistently, and with a program, and you have to take it seriously. And it takes precedent,

no matter what. If the program's running and the program happens, and they're like, well,

they can't leave now to go to school because we're working on cars. No, they're leaving.

We find another way to get the cars done. You make that a priority, and that's what started

making our program really relevant, and not just to the students, but also to the parents.

Of course, we were paying for their education. They're going to college. Well, we have youth,

which is high school, and then afterwards, which is our registered program, which is college. But

our foster team, our farm team, if you think of baseball, is our youth apprenticeship program,

which is the high school. We bring a lot of young talent. Once we created the programs,

we've had a waiting line for 10 years now. Thankfully, we don't have to look hard for

young talent. It finds us. But we still support the schools. We're still at every mock interview,

career nights, apprenticeship evenings. Even though we're not looking, we're still there.

I'm like, it's like branding. I say, you're talking to a young individual that you may not

have room to hire, but you're helping them get better at their interview skills. But in two years

from now, three years from now, 10 years from now, they're going to remember you, and you might need

them. And they come in and say, I interviewed with you and you helped me. And that chance of that

connection is a lot higher and a lot better chance for it to be successful. So having these programs

where we had the youth, which really helped people try our industry, safe place to see if I liked it,

didn't like it, safe place for us to say, you're a good dynamic automotive team member. And what is

it that they need really? Do they show up on time? Do they have the off to learn? Do they want to

grow and expand? Are they a good team player? Which all that leads into culture now. And if you are

those things and you have a little bit of ability, we can teach skill. You just have to have a little

bit. If you have that right mindset, we now take those and put into our registered program, which

definitely is a bigger investment for us and them. And that's a three year program, which has

created a lot of our technicians. And I tell you, easily five years ahead in their career when they're

done with that. So we have a great pipeline. Right now, I think we have five registered and

about three youth apprentices. We were up to seven. We had two more graduate, which are doing a

phenomenal job. A lot of our technicians, all the majority of them have run through the program.

They're now mentors, but the pipeline is still going. We're adding more and more people because

we're growing. We're adding more stores, we're growing organically. A lot of the stores that we

look at, they don't have team members. They're either down to the owner, people are retiring,

they don't know what to do. We can offer succession because we have a talent pipeline.

And it's made a huge difference. But what apprenticeship taught us is that if a three-year

structured program worked so well, which was previously done with a youth program that was

one to two years, it really was just more, do I like this doughnut into a structured program?

Why not continue that? And that's what taught us about career paths, is if it worked so well

in that three years with the hardest demographics you can have for retention. That 18 to 25-year-old,

I mean, our retention ratio is really good. And that over a 10-year period, we're at 71%.

So we're in the high 90s every year in retention of 18 to 25-year-olds.

And that's because we've helped them with their career. They're part of our culture.

They understand we've been clear on our vision where we're heading.

We have opportunities for them. They're making a good living.

So yeah, sometimes, yeah, I just had one that was with us for 10 years that had an opportunity

three hours away with the family to help run a family, a family store, which, you know,

you align with this pretty good J. And I wished him well. And we still connect. I reached out

to him the other day. He's doing well. That's a success story. Even though he now has moved on

from dynamic, that is 10 years of his life that he spent and made great end rows and did a lot

of great things with us. And I think we made an impact on him. And I look at that as a success.

But there's a lot of other ones that stay with us even longer and all, but it just grows. It started

the whole culture thing of learning. At that point, at the young entry level, but then now we

stack it all the way up to hopefully an entire career to where when you retire, it's here too.

I have so many things to pull out of what you just said there. The first being,

I think where your viewpoint on this is different than a lot of people is that

consistency and being involved in the school. And because of that, you're driving that interest

because there's awareness, right? If you're involved with the school and you are helping

at SkillsUSA or you're helping with something that gets you into the school, you have a better

relationship with the instructors. I know, shout out to Tracy Hicks, who does phenomenal work out

there, right? It takes the instructor as well. But you've been very intentional about that

relationship. And every time I've heard you talk with Tracy or anybody else, when we talk through

our ASC conversations, you have a genuine interest and care for that school in a way that I think a

lot of people miss. And something I often talk about is the need for our industry to focus on

the program as much as the one individual you're going to get out of that program. Because when

you do that, you are going to drive more interest in what you're doing from young people. And with

that, you can be a little more selective on who you bring into your program. That's why I'm such a

big fan of job shadowing, because you get somebody in the doors, you kind of get your hands on them,

so to say, to say, like, is this something that's going to be a fit for you? If it is, maybe we'll

try out an apprenticeship with you. But I think so often, people in our industry just get so excited

when somebody's interested in doing this for a living, that we'll jump at the first person,

even as a young person, to bring them in and put so much time and effort and money into a young

person that I think we really underrate how long that process takes. And I think we lack

intentionality at that early stage of bringing somebody in and in an effort just to get bodies

in, right? And so your viewpoint on consistently supporting the school, I think has set you up

so well to make the rest of this work that I do think a lot of our industry just flat out misses

on. Well, if you want to, and it doesn't, not just the automotive program, I mean, me and Jose

are both on CTE, which is the local community college, and the entire CTC program, which I

believe they have 23 programs. Anything from Homeland Security, IT, I mean, let's face it,

pretty soon automotive is going to be more IT than it is mechanical. You know,

why not pull some of that talent over as well? But we support the entire school system,

not just all the trades, but the entire all of it, because that is our future, not just our

future workforce, our future team. But that branding, people get to know, your community

gets to know you as a partner of the school, of the community, you're there to help. And it's

what a better way. The best way for a small business to be successful is invest in the

community they serve. I believe that to my core. And, and it's proven itself, the community will

respond in kind when it's ready. You know, you don't, you do it without expectations, but we've

never, ever been let down. And it's the same when you, when you invest in the school, the students

know it. You know, the students know that you helped. And, and, and they know, you know,

thankfully, we have a really good pack, you know, we have a really good advisory committee.

We have a broad range of independent shops of manufacturers, you dealerships,

some heavy duty, even the military, they're even involved in it. And so the resources and all

what's available to the students is just so much better. And the students, you know, not all of them

get it, but a lot of them do. And, and, and that hangs around. I tell you, if you're, it's no different

pain for marketing and branding. You are branding your business in the community. And what better

way to be successful than helping out the next generation? I've been fortunate enough to witness

some of Tracy's advisory committee meetings. And the point you made about having that diverse group

of an advisory committee is so important, because what I felt when I've been able to sit in on some

of those is that it does feel like the swords are put down, right? We're not competitors going in

here. We are working for the betterment of this school. And when you get an advisory committee

to that level, and I again give Tracy a lot of credit for this, to where you can get people that

might be fighting for customers in the same room, and even fighting for talent, right? Like we've

seen that more and more over the years, the more you can get them in the room together, fighting

for the betterment of that school, the betterment of the industry, I think the more effective it is

for everybody. But if you come in, and I've been on the opposite side of that as well, where you

walk into an advisory committee meeting where everybody's guarded, nobody's giving actual,

honest feedback. And really, you know, almost like I've been in some of them where the shops

are just so proud that they don't want to admit any faults or they don't want to like, you know,

you know what I'm saying? Like in it, it's very frustrating because you look at it and you're

like, I know your shop operation pretty well. And I know there are some things that you could improve.

And that's both dealers, that's independence, that's fleets, that's anybody.

Why would you not have the best interest of the school in mind when you're coming into this? And

if you're, I don't want to say insecure, but at some level, it is insecurity where you don't

want to have honest conversations with everybody in the room. I think that is really to the detriment

of the program. And it hurts those instructors too, because then if, especially in the community

colleges, the tech schools, they could have their dean in that meeting, and the dean needs to hear

some of this stuff. And like, there's just so, there's so much value to everything you said

there about putting the swords down and having good, honest conversations.

In four, I think for, especially for our culture, and really, it's a culture of learning.

And it's a learning, you know, at all levels, it's a culture of learning.

And I tell, you know, I have shops, you know, ask me about our apprenticeship program. And of

course, I share everything we have. It's, it's, I want everyone to be successful in this. And I

tell them, one of the things they have to, that culture of learning is really important, because

you can have all the nuts and bolts of the program, but you have to be willing to let people fail.

You have, and you help them fail full to where they're learning.

If you don't give people permission to fail, to make a mistake, to break apart,

how will they ever learn it? How will they ever challenge their self? Because if you tell me

you've never broken anything or made a mistake, you're not trying too hard. I broke a lot.

I made a lot of mistakes. And I have no problem owning them, because if, if, if I own them and

you learn from my mistake, we both went, you know, it's a, it's a bigger win. But yeah, it's

important. And Tracy, you know, and our local advisory board is actually really good. We work

well together. I mean, a lot of them are friends. We, and no matter where they're at, you know,

and we're not competing against each other, we're trying to help each other. And that's the same

thing. I think ASC and the Education Foundation has been really good is when we go to those meetings,

it's about helping the industry. And, and we've become friends and we realize we, we're not

competitors. And really, we need each other. And, and when we work together, it's amazing

the things that they can accomplish. Oh, and that, you couldn't be more spot on there. Like,

it's going to take the collective to kind of write this ship. And I think the more you can do this,

the less you'll be fighting for talent, quite frankly. I think that the more that

we're working together, it's going to be acting less out of, out of desperation and more out of

like, okay, like my system, my farm league, as you mentioned, like I'd love the baseball analogy is,

is, you know, I can run this as good as anybody, right? So I don't know, all of that just to say,

I love that piece of it.

Every shop, dealership and business in our industry depends on great technicians.

Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships and lack of trustworthy

workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan higher and grow. That's where ASC Connects

comes in. Created in partnership with Wrenchway, ASC Connects is a membership design specifically

for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools,

empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting, retention and performance.

With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist,

start building relationships and support the programs that educate our future technicians.

You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits and labor rates through the industry

data exchange, so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get proven

strategies for leadership, employee development and shop management through members only guides,

templates and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a stronger,

smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link in the

show notes. Now, when you like kind of rolling back the clock here a little bit, when you had

first really taken the apprenticeship piece, both the youth and the true apprenticeship,

seriously, did you fight any internal resistance with your group or was that mindset already there

with kind of that growth? Because I kind of, as I'm asking that question, think back to

how often we have maybe that more experienced technician in the shop that is resistant to

change and now all of a sudden you're going to push this on me. Did you fight any of that

resistance when you started this off? You know, there was resistance, but we'll get to that part

because it was actually external. Thankfully, we had such a culture of learning already

that people were up for it, but I actually included our team because we were kind of working from

scratch here of what all involved, I mean, the state of Maryland had certain, it was very open.

I mean, you could put so much in there to personalize it and I got the team to help and I asked

everything from potential apprentices to potential mentors, leaders in the company, even outside,

you know, asking, you know, what is it that we want in here? What makes it successful?

What are the challenges? Thankfully, because of that, we got a lot of buy-in, but I will tell you,

to me, the most important part of an apprenticeship program is selecting the right mentor. That is

that will ruin the program quicker than anything. If you pick someone, I always tell them, I said,

usually your highest performer is not the best mentor. We need those. We need the people that

are focused on just getting stuff done without a doubt. The person that is, you know, is efficient,

but, you know, likes to talk a little more, likes to explain a little more, has a little more patience.

That usually is a better mentor. Not that anyone cannot be selected, challenge them,

compensate them for their time, effort, knowledge, energy. And if you pick properly,

your success will be a lot higher. You know, it's a lot less because if someone's a bother,

I don't have time for you. You know, you don't have the patience. It's hard to transfer knowledge

when, you know, they don't feel like that it's wanted, you know, or I'm bothering you. That's

not it. You're supposed to go to them when you need help or advice and not feel like you're

bothering them. Of course, you know, there are limits to everything, but yeah, we found picking

the right mentor, and that's an area where we're constantly trying to be better at is

mentor training. ASC has done some mentor training. There's mentor training out there,

but I think that's key. Right now, I'm doing a lot of it myself, and at some point,

we'll need more of an official program, but a lot of it's just picking the right people. And if you

do that, you're more likely to be successful. Anything stand out to you about good mentors?

A good mentor wants to share, and they also are willing to let people try things. I think that's

another thing. One place we went off the rails was we ran an apprentice student program. They were

in the youth program, then they were the registered five years right there. Been with us five years.

They graduated our apprenticeship program, and this was early on. The location lead, the shop

foreman, was afraid to challenge them. They were already doing a lot of things, but now your

Florida's lawyer came in needing time to change. And in my mind, you know, that apprentice does

95% of the work, and the mentor is there to pull the pins on the grenades. But they weren't

allowing it. Doing a cam or a head on a Chrysler. Nope, can't touch that. And I'm like,

why not? They can do 95% of it, or 90, or wherever their skill levels at in their career,

their pathway. We lost a great young talent because we didn't challenge them anymore.

They were challenged all the way through the program, and we stopped. And that's because,

now, this is one of the best technicians I know. And he's on his way. He's actually

now leading a location. But what he had to learn was taking chances on people and letting them

try things. I said, now, we can control some of that, and a lot of it. But there's still some

risks there. But let's face it, we got to take a chance on people. If we don't take chance,

how will they ever grow, and why will they stay with us?

I think I've seen that same thing with business leaders, right, where people are afraid to

delegate or afraid to let somebody try something. And in that scenario that you just said,

the 95 and 5% is such a good picture in people's heads. Because if you're one of those technicians

that's listening to this, and you're struggling with this, and you want to become a good mentor,

I do think taking a step back and allowing somebody to do the work and helping them along

is such an impactful thing. But it takes some like, hey, my name's going to be on this repair.

I do not want this thing coming back. And you just letting go of that a little bit because

so many of our great technicians in our industry have so much pride in the work that they do.

And to kind of let that go, I think when you do let it go, what I've experienced is that

that mentor technician has an extreme amount of pride, not just in that job then,

they have an extreme amount of pride in that young person that they're trying to grow up, right?

And that mentorship is huge. Well, mentorship is the beginning of a leadership journey. And

there's where a lot of shops don't realize that I did a class at Ratchet Ranch last year.

And it was really, they wanted like, specs on, you know, the program as far as the results,

what's happened. And I went into it, it builds leaders. And then, you know, I got the night,

I even said to the room, I'm like, are you surprised by any of you here that apprenticeship

programs built leaders. And they're like, no, I said, you're only thinking of one side,

you're only thinking of the apprentice, the mentor, the first real training for a lot of them in

leadership is being a mentor. That's what leaders do, you know, leaders influence. And, you know,

and we do that through mentorship, guiding, helping, growing, you know, teaching. Those are

how we positively, in a positive way, influence people. And some of the beginnings of their

leadership is through that mentorship piece and that one on one connection. What a great way to

learn how to help and grow people doing it. It's your own case study, it's your own test bed.

And it's you and it's done in such a way that it's safe. You're learning how to lead in a safe

environment, just like they're learning how to fix cars and be a technician in a safe environment.

We're both, you're taking chances both ways, you know, that's the thing. And that's where

we went sideways. And of course, we learn is you have to keep, you still have to take chances on

people, control the risk to the best of your ability. But in the end of the day, I tell people,

if we mess up, we employ humans, you know, don't judge us on our mistakes, judge us from what we

do about it. And of course, we fix whatever, you know, we would fix anything, but it's very,

very rare. And I say that's for most of the shots, it's rare, but be willing to take the risk. And

if you do that, you know, I think people step up to the challenge. One of the common things I hear

a lot from folks that went from being a technician to a manager is that there wasn't a whole lot of

intermediate, right? You went from being a good technician or a technician in general to being

thrown to the wolves in the office side. And even if somebody's going to be a service

writer, service advisor, that they feel like, well, you know, about cars, here you go, we'll

chuck you into the deep end and hope you learn how to swim. I really, I genuinely enjoy what you

just said there about using that mentorship piece as kind of a transition to something more down the

road, because that then does dip their foot in the pool and it allows them to understand that

leadership is not easy. I think a lot of times from a technician standpoint, and I know I was

this way when I was younger, you're out there working on a car and you see the service manager

just behind the computer and on the phone, you're like, not doing anything like that's easy. And

then when you get into that role, you're like, this is really, really hard. I wish somebody

would have prepared me for this. And so I think that's your first step into leadership.

I just really enjoyed your viewpoint on that because it is so helpful if somebody views it

through that lens and that this is your introduction. This is your introduction to leadership. This is

introduction to maybe getting you to go to that conference and go to a leadership class because

you've started to understand that this is not easy stuff. People are not easy. And I just,

as you said that, a light bulb went on for me and I'm like, you are absolutely right.

And we learned that. We didn't know it. We figured that out as we were going through the

programs, making our mistakes, learning, just like everything else. We learned as we went through it.

Now, of course, I try to help people and tell them, this is the benefit, but there are risks,

but it's no different than starting a business or whatever you're doing. There's always risk.

Have you ever had anybody go into the mentorship piece to be a mentor and they just come back to

you and say, that's the same for me. I just want to go back to working on cars.

As far, okay. You mean as being a mentor?

They're normally a pretty good fit. You pretty much know, yeah.

They are, but I'll expand on that a little bit because I think it merits is,

I think you got a vet. And then part of that too is testing the waters and trying it out.

As far as mentorship, usually it's for a set time. And sometimes people don't

jive and you might have to switch things up where these two people don't communicate well.

So you got to find someone else that has a different mannerism or something that it helps them.

But even in leadership itself, let's just say they wanted to go and run a store.

And that's where we test and we, we try to, we try to be proactive to where, all right,

if you want to run a store, well, then let's, let's, all right, we, we have someone we want

on vacation next week. We've taught you a lot of these things. Why don't you go over to that

store and, and run it for the week with assistance, with somebody, not necessarily a store lead because

they're going to take over a lot because it's their store, but maybe, maybe an area

lead or something works with them and they get to experience it. You know, I got humbled

and humbled the word. Jose humbled me greatly 25 ish years ago. I was the, you know, technician,

running my app, you know, he was, he was a service advisor at the store and, and, and I'm just just

like, yep, yep, yep, you know, no, this didn't sell this thing, right? That ain't right. Well,

I think I just exceeded his limit of taking it. And he just said, that's fine. Next week,

I'm going to pay you to be at the counter. You're going to sit there and, and, and Shane and Lee's

daughter actually taught me how to be a service advisor. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, he says,

oh, yes, yes, yes. He put me at that counter and made me do it humbled me quite a bit.

I did not want any parts of that. And I tell you what, I learned a better respect for that job.

And it started the building process of me learning to little customers, people

turning towards leadership. It was, it helped me a lot, but yeah, it also humbled me a little bit

too. I, I actually really enjoy that as part of the onboarding process of just having somebody,

when you bring them in, I know everybody's in a rush to get a good experience technician into

production as immediately as soon as possible and turning hours as soon as possible. I like to take

a step back right there and have them spend a day with the service manager, have them spend a day

with the service writer and really just try to get some perspective of what they do each day.

And that's not the grand scale because they're still not the ones taking the call. They're

still not the ones kind of with the pressure of being on the phone and having four people

walking at the same time and all the craziness that happens as a result of that. But if at least

gives them a little perspective, I think it gives them a different appreciation for that job in a

way where when we don't have them behind the counter ever, it's, it's hard for them to see

how challenging that job is. Yeah, it, it absolutely is. And, and that's where, you know,

thankfully, you know, we, we do a lot of gold based, you know, our review process. And we ask

people like, what is your one, three and five year goals professionally? And if you want to

share personally, I would love it. If you want to buy a house, I want to know, we have a lot of

20 year olds that own houses, a lot of 30 year olds that own houses. I want to know because I,

you know, my connections to the community, I'm going to help you with a realtor, I'm going to

help you with a banker, I'm going to put, I'm going to set you up with people that I trust.

Now I'm not going to pay for it for you, but I will roll through some roll red tape that you

have no idea. And you're, you know, you may get a, a, I've seen some that have gotten a,

a, or a loan officer and they're getting them in a loan. I'm like, why are you in this type of

loan? And this is terrible. And they don't know, you know, especially not so much today, but there

was a time, but yeah, we try it. Like if, if you're trying to do something, let me help you.

Because if, if, if you're more successful in whatever part of your life, you're probably

going to be more successful with us as well. You know, it's that rising tides where I was all

ships. I think everything we've talked about does that. And, and, and if we're able to do that,

we're all better off for it. As far as the nuts and bolts of the apprenticeship program itself,

can you talk me through that? Is it, is it a credential based? Is it,

how do you judge when you're kind of graduating people through your tears of the apprenticeship?

Okay. Two programs and they're both so important. But so youth, high school, that's how I, I, I always

label those high school, extremely simple. We're normally dealing with minors. So the school system

kind of dictates most of what, what that program is, which really, they get out of school early. So

we see them, it's part of their, their class credits. So we see them for most of the day.

They have a mentor and we have a goal list of what they're going to learn. So they know up front.

And, and this is, even if you can't do anything else, have a list of what people are going to learn.

It makes a difference in, in how engaged they are with you. But we have that. And actually, we,

we have set raises. If, if you can be proficient, not an expert at doing a digital inspection,

you do your safety training. You, you, you understand and can do an oil change, you know,

how to do a fluid exchange. Just be, you know, 80%, 90% of the time, you, you can do it without

help. Instant raises, you know how, you know how to get the raise right from the beginning.

That's been really successful because if they come to us wanting a raise, we go, well, which one

of these eight things have you mastered or become proficient at, sorry. And most of the time, they'll

have that. If not, they'll be like, I said, let's work on that, you know, instead of me just giving

you more money, let's help you get better to make you more valuable. That's been good. And we, and

it's been really good. But really, that's like time-based when they graduate high school, that

program ends. But they're graded for it. But it's really more of a, are they a good fit? That's,

that's the vetting process for our registered program. Our registered program after high school,

because you can be any age, you can be, you can be 18 or 65, whatever you want to be. If you want

to do this, you can. But it predominantly is 18 to 25. That's the predominant area. It is time-based.

That's what we picked. You can go competency. There are many ways to appeal the onion on this

thing. For us, it was three years because I went to a local, I went to the local community college

that has an amazing program and looked at their, their master, master certification

to get the 12 classes in, because they're four to five credit hour classes. It was three years.

So we created a three-year program. They do two, two in the spring, two in the fall,

class-wise. They end up with 54, 55 credits, college credits. I insist they are for credit.

Never know where your journey will take you. And you may go back like I did myself. I did an

automotive degree and went back for a business and then got a bachelor's in business because of

that. I built it off of that. And I want them to have the same opportunity. But really, it's

time-based. But as they take the class, they're, they're doing the work here. That three years seems

to be magical for us because they come out of it very skilled and, and really prepared. Now,

they, they still have help, but they're, they're ready to stand on the room for the most part.

And, and, and really the progression. Year one is more infancy. You know, I want to say

year two is they're really getting their feet under them. They're getting productive.

And year three is, is they're doing great things. They really are. And that's, that's work for us.

But now you can pick what you want, what works for you. Like I know Napa has a good program out

there and it's, it varies depends on its competency base. But you know, let's say it's two years.

You pick and choose whatever program works for you. I tell people, whatever it is, do something,

at least have a goal list. If you have a goal list, you're starting something good.

What is your expectation when they come out of the registered apprenticeship, like that first year?

That's a great question. I don't know if I've been asked.

Sorry to put you on the spot.

You know, what makes me think is, is I, you know, just like in leadership

and in apprenticeship, everyone has their own journey, their own speed.

Once they graduate, I've never had anyone not be able to perform

at an acceptable area level. I really, it's come, I need to understand,

our team needs to understand where they're at and how to help them get better if they're not

as far along as they need to be. But for most of the time, the way the program works

and in the school, we work with the school system, the teachers help us, we help them

get them to where they need to be. And they've been working on cars the whole time. They kind of

fit right in. Really, it just comes down to, you know, its attitude. And probably, you know,

probably one of the biggest challenges at the end of year three, they've graduated the program.

But sometimes they think they're, they know a little more than they've been experienced to.

And I tell them, I said, you have just created, it's been very successful and a really great

program. You have a lot of knowledge, you know, you've learned a lot, a lot, through book,

hands-on. But now you need to learn, now you need to get experience. And that takes time.

You know, no one can teach how tight a bolt is until you've broken a few of them. You have to

go through that process. I can give you the fundamentals. You can take advantage of that

and learn and have all the theory and understand how to work on things, but you've got to do

to get the experience to truly master your craft. And part of that, each one's a little

different really. It's on us to know where they're at in that journey. Horses on them to apply

their self and keep learning. But really is what do I expect? I expect them to keep learning and

keep trying. And if they're doing that, then they're in good shape, but they've all come out

at acceptable levels. But it's been from here to here. And more to the top side. That's where

that structured program is something special about it that works. And it's amazing what people

will do when they know you're investing in them. Something I've had to change my tune on over the

years was that I was pretty adamant that one thing that needed to be changed in our industry was

that we had this mentality as technicians that I learned the hard way, so you need to learn the

hard way. And I was frustrated at that, especially as a young technician. But then as the years have

gone by, one thing, I do think there's an element to you do have to go through this stuff. You have

to gain that experience. And you're going to get your butt kicked. I know looking back to one of

the very first jobs I did as a true technician was used a air ratchet on a transmission

pan bolt and snapped it immediately. And so then you're just so frustrated. And it's one of those

things where to this day, I've never done that again. But it was one of those where I had to learn.

And so while I think there's maybe a different way we could communicate that rather than the

old school, you know, I learned the hard way, you need to learn the hard way, it's like being able

to talk a young person through the fact that you're going to have to get experience doing this stuff.

And you can read about it in a book all you want. But until you apply it, it's you're not going to

break that bolt, you're not going to screw up and have that lesson that is just a part of learning.

So, you know, I've had to kind of walk back on that a little bit over the years where I was

frustrated with our industry's, I think, comfort level was just saying, I learned the hard way,

so you need to to kind of look at it through a different lens and say, you know what,

you kind of do, you kind of have to go through some of those challenges in order to become a

really, really good technician. I'm going to have to agree with you. But I think it's important

for the why. It's not a punishment. You know, the stories and lessons we've learned are not

our highest successes. You know, I got that engine replaced in half the time I called for it. We

don't normally remember that. We remember the one that took us twice as long because we forgot.

I can tell you right now, I put a used engine in one time, I forgot to put the flex plate,

it wasn't on there. I put the whole thing in and then I went under, there's no flex plate.

It's the fastest engine I ever took back out and put in. I will call you back one.

But you don't forget your mistakes. They hang with you and that's building blocks for

being better. It's the same analogy as people don't respect free. You know, free has no value.

You charge for something, they then appreciate what you're doing. It's like, if I come to help you,

Jay, and it's free, you're like, yeah, that's nice. If I charge you some time, you'll find more

value in it. And I think it's the same with just the pain level of learning. But don't do it out

of malice and not because you got beat up, do it for the wrong growth because we have to see all

cycles of life. And that's something, you know, within the newest generation, I'm seeing some

differences since COVID and risk averse, taking chances, you know, they've been through some

things and now they don't want to. And I'm like, they're not willing to take as many chances. And

all I'm like, we got to take chances to grow and learn. And that's another challenge we have.

And it's always going to be something, you know, that's just it. It won't be boring. You know,

there's always something new coming along. But you got good foundations, good building blocks,

people will grow and we will all be successful.

That's great. And I really like that you said it's not punishment. Going through the experiences

not punishment. And I think that's the way it was phrased to a lot of us when we were young in

the industry is that it is punishment, you kind of got to go through that in order and you really

do it just how we deliver that message and how we like you said deliver that why, because I do

think that's important. As we wrap up our podcast, we have three kind of quick hitting fun questions

for you that are just kind of more along the lines of the get to know you stuff. So what was your

first car? First car, 1977 Chevy Monza with a V8 in it. That's how I learned how to break stuff

really good. That would have been a fun one. It was fun. It started the spark, which when I,

I, you know, have to sideroad your three questions here, but that's why they say why do people not

want to be technicians? I said, well, when I grew up, you looked at a high school parking lot,

you saw Mustangs, Camaros, a Monza, we could work on our own cars. Now you're seeing BMWs,

Lexus, Teslas, they can't work on those things. How do you fall in love with an industry that you

can't truck? That's where the school systems are so important. That's why shops, opening their

doors to young individuals is so important. You want people in the industry, open your doors,

because they can't do it on the round. Boy, that is great. What is your favorite type of food?

Favorite food? Too much. I love sushi. That is one of my top ones. I am a meat and potatoes guy,

too. I'm not so much on the sweets, so protein, but yeah, I love probably sushi is probably one

of my favorites. Love it. It took me a while, but I was on the sushi train probably 15 years ago,

because a friend talked me into it, and to this day, I love sushi. Last one,

more routine-based, do you have a specific time that you wake up in the morning?

Yeah, I want to eat. I would say usually around 5.30, going on 6 o'clock,

Lawrence said or not, I'll wake up to it. It's naturally. Yeah, pretty natural, pretty steady,

and usually once I'm awake, once the mind starts, I'm done. It's like if I just keep my eyes shut,

I might be able to fall back asleep, but if my eyes open, it just turns on, and that's it. I'm

done. I got to get up. That's very frustrating on a Sunday morning when you say, hey, I'm going to

sleep in today, and then your mind starts going, and I think most people in business understand

that your mind really never probably completely disengages from business, and so if you get up

and you start thinking about something, or like in my mind, I'll be like, oh my goodness, I forgot

to respond to that email at 3 o'clock on a Sunday morning or something, so you get up and try to

get to it. And I have not mastered this, but it has helped me. Like when I go to bed and I know,

like I got some big things to do the next day that are critical, and we're not talking just

regular basic stuff, but like you got to have a heart to heart with somebody that's really important

that could go sideways on you or something. I will talk myself out of thinking about that.

I'll tell myself, just knock it off, stop thinking about it, and I've got decent about it to where

I can fall asleep pretty quickly, because if I let it, it'll dispester. And then sometimes even if I

wake up in the middle of the night, which thankfully don't happen often, but yeah, but once the morning

comes, it's all in. It's good to go. I think I have that same thing with me. Once the brain

starts going, there's no stopping it. But Duane, I have to say what an absolute pleasure this has

been. I'm so happy that you took the time to join us on the podcast and just an absolute

pleasure talking to you as always. Yep. We've connected. Every time we see each other,

it's like we haven't missed a day. It's pretty cool. It is. Well, best of luck here in 2026,

and I hope to have you back on sometime in the future. Sounds good. Thanks, Duane.

That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your

support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on

Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the

Wrenchway team. Wrenchway is dedicated to promoting and improving careers in the automotive, diesel,

and collision industries. In partnership with ASC, we run the ASC Connects community which

empowers shops and dealerships with reliable data, school connections, and industry insights

while helping grow the future technician workforce. You can learn more by visiting

Wrenchway.com. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.

Mentorship is the Beginning of Leadership

Lear

APEX

A-S-T-E-A

apprenticeship program

automotive program

CTE

CTC program

automotive IT integration

ASC Connects

Wrenchway

transmission pan bolt

flex plate

Chevrolet Monza

Chevrolet Spark

technician shortage

Chevrolet Camaro

Ford Mustang

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