Drive Torque Podcast Oct 10, 2025

Mercedes using BMW Engines? Must Have & Must Avoid Options For Your Car |Ep 73| Drive Torque Podcast

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Car

Ford RS200

The Ford RS200 is a famous rally car from the 1980s. It's known for being fast and has a unique look that car enthusiasts really like.

Car

The Ford Mustang is a famous sports car from America that people love for its speed and style. It has been around for a long time and is often talked about because it's a classic example of American car design.

Car

Mustang Mach-E

The Mustang Mach-E is a new electric SUV from Ford that uses the Mustang name, even though it looks different from the traditional Mustang sports car.

Car

Ford Capri

The Ford Capri was a cool sports car made a long time ago that many people loved because it looked good and was not too expensive. It's remembered fondly by car enthusiasts today.

Term

GT products

GT products are special high-performance cars made for speed and racing. They are designed to be better on the track and are often more powerful than regular models.

Car

Porsche 911

The Porsche 911 is a popular sports car that many people love for its speed and unique shape. It's known for being fun to drive and has been around for a long time.

Term

supercharger

A supercharger helps an engine produce more power by pushing in extra air, which lets it burn more fuel and go faster.

Term

trans-axle

A trans-axle is a part of a car that combines the gears that change speed and the part that drives the wheels into one piece, making the car more efficient.

Term

GT3 RS

The GT3 RS is a special version of the Porsche 911 that is built for racing and has features that make it faster and lighter.

Company

Steeda

Steeda is a company that makes parts to make Ford cars, especially Mustangs, go faster and perform better.

Company

Multimatic

Multimatic is a company that makes special parts for cars, especially for racing and high-performance vehicles. They help build some of the fastest cars in the world.

Car

Bugatti Veyron

The Bugatti Veyron is an incredibly fast and expensive car that many people dream about. It's famous for being one of the fastest cars you can buy, and it looks really fancy too.

Term

downforce

Downforce helps keep a car on the ground when it's going fast, making it easier to handle and safer to drive. It's created by parts like wings that push the car down.

Part

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2R tyres

These are special tires made by Michelin that help cars grip the road better, especially when driving fast. They're often used on race cars or high-performance sports cars.

Part

315

This number tells you how wide the tire is. Wider tires can help a car grip the road better when going fast.

Part

335

This number shows how wide the back tire is. Like the front, a wider back tire helps the car stay on the road better when driving fast.

Term

Chiron tyre

The Chiron tyre is the special rubber used on the Bugatti Chiron, a very fast and expensive car. These tyres are made to handle the car's incredible speed and performance.

Brand

AMG

AMG is a special part of Mercedes that makes their cars faster and more powerful. They take regular Mercedes cars and make them sportier.

Brand

Audi

Audi is a luxury car brand from Germany, known for making high-quality vehicles with advanced technology. They offer a variety of cars, including sedans and SUVs.

Company

Ineos Grenadier

Ineos Grenadier is a company that makes tough, off-road vehicles. Their first car, called the Grenadier, is built for adventure and rough terrain.

Company

Morgan

Morgan is a small car company from Britain that makes special sports cars by hand. They often use engines from bigger brands like BMW to power their cars.

Car

Mercedes-Benz C63

The C63 is a fast and powerful version of the regular Mercedes C-Class. It's designed for performance and is popular among car enthusiasts.

Term

6.2 litre V8

A 6.2 litre V8 is a type of engine that has eight cylinders arranged in a V shape and has a total volume of 6.2 liters. It's known for being very powerful and is often used in fast cars.

Car

Mercedes-Benz 190

The Mercedes-Benz 190 is a car model that was made in the 1980s and 1990s. It was known for being very reliable and was often seen in places like Africa because it could handle tough conditions.

Car

Mercedes-AMG A45 S

The Mercedes-AMG A45 S is a fast and sporty version of a small car made by Mercedes-Benz. It has a powerful engine that makes it fun to drive, and it's designed for people who want a high-performance vehicle.

Car

He's an owl.

Right.

He's an owl.

We're starting.

It's like having our parents, kind of, you know, moderators, isn't it, having Pat to come

on.

Yeah, it is.

Well, I think we should start, I think we should start with what we were just talking

about.

That was quite a natural start.

But yeah, that Chris Harris video of Max Stappen is one of the best 40-minute videos

I've seen on YouTube in a while.

It's so un-peard, as in Chris Harris gets to ask what he wants, and really just ask quite

blunt questions to Max Stappen, and Max answers like a normal person and not in, like, a media

trained way.

It was really refreshing.

It's like the stuff Chris Harris did before he went to Top Gear and had that kind of

corporate thing cover up, I mean, anybody who works for the BBC and any of the outlets,

there's so many do's and don'ts, and there's so much kind of prescription about what you

can say.

And we start to see Chris coming away from that now, but I agree.

And I'm going to say something.

I can't believe that.

So I am really not a fan of Max Stappen at all.

I can appreciate him as an amazing driver, a talent of his generation, and I am sure

he will go down as one of the all-time greats in F1 and will be in the same conversation

as your Schumacher's, and your Senors, and your Hamilton's, and your Fangios.

I just don't like the way he portrays himself, and I don't like the kind of, sometimes, the

lack of sportsman-like behaviour, however.

I saw a completely different side to him in that film, and I won't say I'm now

a massive Max Stappen fan, but I see him in a different light.

If anything, that film's done that for me, and that should be applauded.

Yeah.

I mean, I've always been more of a Max fan.

Again, some of the things he's said or done have been a bit questionable.

But yeah, that film, you just wanted to be there on the day, and even when you see

how hard Max is driving on a...

From lap one as well.

From lap one.

Literally from other bits.

On a circuit that doesn't look like it meets FIA safety standards.

I mean, there's concrete walls that are like six foot away, but it just, that makes that

that makes that whole video, and I mean, what a great thing.

It also starts drizzling after lap one, doesn't it?

It starts raining a little bit.

Yeah.

He doesn't care about that.

No problem at all.

The thing that gets me, when it comes into one of the, I think it might be the

first braking zone, you can see how hard he's braking, because Chris Harris kind

of does that.

Throws himself forward in the car, and you think, well, Chris is a, he's a very, very

good driver.

He's been, I'm sure, a passenger in many, many people, and that was dead impressive.

And the fact they started it in an RS 200 valley car, which they're just cool anyway.

Yeah.

Of course.

Yeah, even that part.

I think that part, and the two sides of the videos, the track stuff, and kind

of the prologue beforehand in the RS 200, I think the biggest thing about that

for me is showed the max helmet on and helmet off personality in one video, like

helmet off, super chilled, like just happy to be about answering questions, like

happy to get not grilled, but you know, questioned on his mentality and his

driving techniques and how he does things.

Like he's happy, you could see in that that he is an enthusiast, and he's

an enthusiast in racing, as well as a professional racing driver and an

enthusiast in cars as well.

But the second he put his helmet on, like he said, first corner, he's

breaking at the last point you could have breaks immediately out of the pits.

The car's not even warmed up yet.

He doesn't even know, I think he said he'd been to the track once before for

something, but it was like for filming as well.

And he doesn't really even know the track.

And he won't have done a pit.

He won't have done a trackwalk because that's one of the things he says.

He never does a trackwalk.

That's what he does.

Yeah.

And didn't he say, yeah, and didn't he say, what's the one of the

questions like what he tries to get up to his optimum lap time by about

a fourth lap or something anywhere?

Like within the fourth lap, he wants to be within a percent of where, and it's

just like, I mean, that's, and I'm sure that's the case with a lot of the

very top best drivers, but it's just, it's an amazing ability.

And it's amazing film.

But what's interesting that came off the back of that, again, we're

just talking about off camera is Jim Farley, who is the current Ford

CEO, put out a statement and I found it quite amusing.

I'm very pleased that he said it, but it kind of doesn't make any sense.

We will never make an electric Mustang.

That I, I don't know, I've definitely not been living under a rock

for the last four or five years, and there's definitely been something

called a Mustang Mackey.

Oh, was that a Mustang?

I had no idea it was a Mustang Mackey.

Since 2021.

So, you know, it's like, it's only been over four years.

It's got a Mustang on it.

It's got the horse thing on it.

It's called a Mustang Mackey.

It's upset the whole Mustang community.

It's up there.

It's up there with naming it.

Just imagine if they did that again and called like a car a

Capri that wasn't anything like a free.

I mean, they wouldn't do that.

They wouldn't be ridiculous.

A crap.

We will never make an electric Capri.

That's it.

No, I just, I mean, I can remember reading a thing saying

that they justified naming it the Mustang because the

electric Mustang Mackey, because of the whole EV mandate thing,

enabled them to carry on making the V8 Mustang.

That was the kind of the whole justification for it to try and

appease Mustang owners who felt like they just had their world

end because there was an electric Mustang.

Do we know how much one of those GTDs is?

Because there are a lot of money, aren't they?

I think there are a lot of money.

I think you're the quickest Googler.

I'll Google it.

But like, after seeing that video, I mean, look, we'd all love,

we always talk about GT products from Porsche GT3, GT3 RS.

But I don't know if you've got, if you've got something

special from the Porsche, let's just say you've got a Porsche

in the garage already.

You've got a 911 or something like, and you want a different

track experience that normally isn't really very many places

to go after GT3 RS, but this does look like a great option.

Doesn't it?

Jesus, the thing that's insane.

The thing I didn't realize, I just thought from the pictures,

it was just going to be a Mustang that had been tuned

and had a big supercharger checked on it.

But it's not at all.

Is it underneath?

It's trans-axle, isn't it?

The gearbox is on the back axle.

Yeah, it's a proper race car.

Underneath the skin, it's like a proper, proper race car.

Just to correct the pricing here, it's 315,000 pound.

Yeah, so it's not really even GT3 RS or even 911 ST money.

It's it's it's this is Ferrari money.

Like you're buying a Ferrari or one of these.

You're not buying a GT3 RS.

Here's the thing then.

Could you get like 80% of the way there by just taking

a standard Mustang, like a dark horse?

No, I don't think so.

No, I'm said 80% of the way there.

And you know, Steeda do loads of really cool performance bits.

You could probably do an awful lot to a dark horse to make it.

I think if you wanted to go 80% of the way there, you'd just buy the Porsche

for you buy GT3 for 150 grand or something.

Obviously, I'm talking about if you wanted a Mustang thing.

I think, yeah, I think in terms of like the sound and the straight line pace,

probably, but like we started with, I think that for a car to look

that fast, albeit in Max's hands, it like and like you just

said there, Ped, the there is fundamentally a different car underneath.

And I think that's what makes it so amazing.

And clearly, I think Ford are not the sort of brand that would just

put a hundred grand on something that they think is special.

I think that list price that Pat just said, and I've looked in the States,

option cars are like $400,000.

I reckon that is genuinely the price of what it costs them in terms of

probably made by multi-matic, isn't it?

The same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is not this is not a money making scheme.

This is definitely like when Veyron came out on every car that they lost.

Like, you know, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this was

just facilitate, yeah, just just breaking even and facilitating existing

in the first place that I found amazing was that all the all the work

we had to do at the back of the car just to enable a car to deal

with the downforce created by that giganormous wing on the back of it

because it's massive.

Yeah. And it looks mega as well.

I mean, what a body just looks unreal.

Yeah, nah, cool car, fair play, fair play.

Oh, and running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2R tyres.

Oh, of course.

Would you like to guess how wide they are on the front and the back?

Is it a square? I'm guessing I bet you it's not square.

No, it's not. OK.

Three 15 on the front and three three five on the rear.

You are ten off on both three, two, five on the front and three, four, five

on the rear, three, four, five.

That's a big tyre.

Like, and that is that.

I mean, we've just said what a race car is.

But that is such an American strategy.

It's like just throw all size of it.

It's like just just give it the widest and biggest tyres ever to give it that maximum.

They're only 10 mil narrower, the 10 mil narrower than a Chiron tyre.

Wow. And 40 mil wider at the front.

That's I mean, that's that's a mate.

Well, even if you say we'll have to do a Tim's game on any.

So we'll have to kind of when that when that arrives at the schmoozium,

we'll have to go over and do another part of the thing.

We'll have to ogle at that for sure.

Yeah, definitely.

Yep. Amazing.

Cool. That's a good start.

We didn't even introduce the podcast.

We just got straight into it because we were that excited about about mustang maki.

Let's do an easy now and an American accent.

He's an owl.

You sound like a donkey.

Yeah, it's the drive to a podcast time again.

And we haven't been drinking or anything and we're feeling happier, happier life, I think.

Yep. Yep.

I hope everyone is well.

Big shout out to our headline sponsor, Mission, for supporting us throughout the year.

And yeah, looking forward to this podcast, although we've already started it.

But I think we have, we have.

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give us love on all of the various just search drive talk podcast anywhere and you'll find us.

Yep. Yep.

They're going really well.

Once again, our reels are flying on on on the drive talk podcast Instagram page.

They really are.

They they've built a lot of traction.

So yeah, very pleased about that.

Thanks for supporting the reels on my, my, my channel.

And I think I'm really, I think we need to just keep keep saying more controversial things.

Don't we have made these reels kind of like potentially Mercedes using BMW engines?

Is that controversial?

I think it is.

I wanted to get you on the phone to speak to you about this because you just, I think

the technical term is lost your poo.

What do you think about that, Joe?

I mean, Mercedes in general.

And I know we've got a couple of topics to talk about that include Mercedes or AMG

Mercedes umbrella.

They are, I feel like they are, you know, really difficult place at the moment.

And I think it's been happening for years with all of their, we've talked about

their horrible, mostly horrible electric lineup.

And the fact that in my opinion, I'm not the biggest Merck boy.

I never have been.

And I know you're not really, but no, but no, I could appreciate some of

their, some of their models in the past, but I've never, I've always thought

they're a bit overrated in modern times and a bit overpriced and people going

about their amazing interiors and they're really not.

They're just plasticky and horrible, mostly.

But I think the recent years, they've really started to go downhill.

The difference with with Merck and let's say the other big German brands

Porsche, BMW, Audi, they all need to

pay for themselves.

They haven't got a huge, okay, Audi arguably have got the Volkswagen group

behind them and so Porsche in a way, but let's say BMW have got BMW.

They haven't got a massive commercial vehicle side, which Mercedes have.

And I think what a lot of people might not realize is Mercedes

as a brand has always been supported and had a huge backing

and infinite amount of money from their commercial vehicle size side,

whether it's their trucks, their vans, that's where they make the majority of

their tanks, tanks, everything.

I'm sure I'm sure they've got lots.

I'm sure they're behind a lot of things, but they've got a lot of money

and their costs have always done relatively well until recent years.

But I think their commercial vehicle side have kept them afloat and out

of serious financial problems.

Well, I think we've got to a point now five or six years down the track

where their commercial vehicle side, this is I'm guessing this is all

guesswork where they're suddenly like, we actually need to start making a bit

of an effort with our cars again because no one's behind them

and they're predominantly not great.

And so I think they've panicked in many ways and and whether that's

say marketing and the amount they spend on getting people to these events

and launches, which to me is a complete waste of money or whether

it's now the fact that it looks like they're going to be outsourcing

engines from BMW.

Do I blame them on that?

No, because I think BMW as a BMW fanboy makes some of the best petrol

diesel engines out there.

And if you're going to buy an engine, look at Iniesta Grenadier.

They use BMW engines.

Look at Morgan.

They use BMW engines.

There's a lot of brands over the years that have outsourced BMW

engines, but you can understand it with someone like Morgan because

they're a tiny in-house hand-built British manufacturer that can't

afford to develop their own engine that today needs to pass a

bazillion stupid, you know, regulations and rules to fit all

these, you know, it's true, isn't it?

Like I can't imagine what it would cost to develop an engine

that would tick enough boxes today.

So but when Mercedes turn around and do that to let's face it,

probably their biggest rival over the last 30 plus years, to me,

it's almost like they're giving up and we know they produce

them their C63 four-pot.

I mean, that was a disaster from start to finish.

It was never going to sell and it's sad that they've gone

from making some of the most.

We're not being not Mercedes fanboys, but I can always step

back and appreciate like their 6.2 litre V8 that was hand-built

at a back and each engine was signed.

I mean, you brought a C63 just so you could lift the bonnet

and look at that.

Look at the badge.

Look at the amazing.

That's where my money's gone.

Forget about the crappy plastics in the interior.

That's what I'm buying the C63 for, but now the fact

they're doing that, it just seems bizarre and I mean, it

doesn't.

Yeah, it's it's it's sad if anything because yeah, it's

cost-cutting.

It's but I don't know.

That's I guess if you because didn't they have like, I mean,

as I said, hands up, not the biggest Mercedes fanboy.

But if you went back to like the back end of the 80s

and 90s, they had a reputation of just making bulletproof

cars.

Oh, you know, you like one 90s and that kind of thing

and you'd travel abroad if you went to like Africa, you

know, the only car you'd see were like Mercedes 190 they

were everywhere because they knew that they didn't they

just literally would you do a billion miles in them and

then they have that kind of whole dipping quality and

I think a well-reported dip in build quality and they

had 2000 for that.

Yeah, and whether that's, you know, it's like most of

these companies, the bean counters take over, don't

they?

The accountants and they start having to cut corners

or shave budget and they had a big problem and they started

to lose that reputation and they kind of kind of came back

a little bit and built it back up again.

But for me, the bit that so this this the AMG cars like

you said with the amazing engines and I remember I had

an A45 s.

I've not been doing YouTube very long.

It's probably the only only like one of two AMG's I

ever had on the channel and they're saying like those

engines at a fault about they'd take one in every

like 10 or 20 engines off the production line and just

run it at maximum RPM for 24 hours just to make sure

the quality is good enough.

So you've got AMG, right?

But then the rest of Mercedes is just like it's almost

like you're giving up life basically and if they if

they have kind of gone that route, then either

they've done it because they're like we'll focus

in-house on doing the electric stuff, but we'll

let BMW do all the R&D on development of combustion

engines and we may as well just use those because the

world's going electric.

There's no point developing or or or or progressing the

the I.C. stuff we've got.

Will that BMW do it?

Maybe that's it.

I don't know.

I think it's worth I've got this article up here

talking about the the potential details and all of

this is advanced talks and it's I'd say rumors, but

it's in industry inside a knowledge being provided here.

So they're looking to use BMW's four cylinder petrol

engines for a wide range of vehicles, but it's their

lower end of the range.

They're talking CLA, GLA, GLB, C-Class, E-Class, GLC

and apparently there's a little G coming up to a

smaller G wagon as well.

Now I never thought I've always said I think

VW will be the first big manufacturer to die because

of this electric thing.

But this isn't the first time Mercedes have used

other people's engines.

They use the 1.5 litre turbocharged M252 engine

produced in China by Geely and Renault in the A-Class.

They also put it in the CLA as well.

They've got three power outputs that says it for that.

So this isn't the first time they've done that.

But that's for their really entry level models where

frankly, they are actually competing at a lower

end of the market.

I think the bigger issue here and we've spoken

about this before about BMW have always continued

an ICE lineup alongside an electric lineup.

And so they've been very clever to kind of

safety net themselves or provide themselves a safety

net because if all this EV stuff goes pitong

or that it gets laxer with the regulations,

then they have an opportunity to just ramp back

up the ICE line that they never got rid of.

Right.

And yes, they've reduced the amount of options

of engines, but they still have quite a nice range.

Don't they?

They still have a selection of petrol and even

diesel, right?

They still have diesels.

Yeah, one or two.

Yeah.

And so reading here, this article is suggesting

that Euro 7 compliant engines, which are coming

out, I don't know when, what in the next few years.

Right.

Now, we all know a production cycle of these engines

are going to be 10 years, seven years.

It's a very long time.

And so what's probably happened here is Mercedes,

as we've seen with their fleet of cars,

has not made it all in on an electric.

Yeah.

Then not thought about Euro 7 at all because

why would you?

Because we're all going electric in nine years time.

So it doesn't even matter.

Then they've realized that actually that's probably

not a reality.

I think the Mercedes people have been quite outspoken

about the fact that we can't keep going on like this.

We need to change the rules.

And so they have to go to BMW.

They have no choice.

It's if they don't go to BMW, their company dies

because if those rules change at all and we'll go

on to speak about AMG in a second and their potential

new electric offering, they've got that flat plane crank

eight cylinder engine, which they've said they're going

to detune from black series and just putting everything

in all of those kind of cars in the future.

So that's kind of secure.

And maybe they'll have some electric offerings,

but it looks like Mercedes kind of they went

so all in an electric side potentially that they never

had a Euro 7 compliant engine.

And now that they're thinking there is a future

in the next because they've got a plan 10,

15 years ahead, but there is a future that those

Euro 7 cars are still their bread and butter

alongside their commercial products that they

have no choice.

It's that or die.

They either have to take on BMW's engines because

they have them still and they have compliant ones

for the future or they'll cease to exist because

there's no way they can run that company on just

selling electric cars.

Yeah, you're 100%.

Yeah, I think you nailed that.

And actually if you look at someone like Porsche,

if you look at all of their motors apart from

their 9 11 stuff, it's all Volkswagen group engines.

Right?

It's and it has been for many, many years.

So you look at like, you know, all the four liter V8s

that you get in in the KNs and stuff.

They're all the RS6 that it's a Volkswagen group engine

that Porsche have played with and fettled.

But and you even look at the the McCann T that

that's a that's a two liter out of the Golf GTI

and Golf R.

So they, you know, they're lucky that they can

share those parts and those costs that Mercedes,

like you said, I think you're 100% right.

They focused like so many brands have focused.

Oh, well, this is what we've been told we need to do.

We're going to set ourselves up to be EV only.

And now we're a few months away from 2026 and it's

like, or actually it's a combustion engine stuff

that's still selling and we need to.

So it's you could you can sort of see why they've done

it, but it is quite ironic and I think just

and also when you look at F1 teams, well, what's been

a dominant F1 team over the past 12, 13 years up

until the last couple Mercedes and why mostly?

Okay, you could argue Hamilton and the drivers yet.

That's a big part of it, but also because it's the

only and I'm not to upspeed with F1, but I think

I'm right.

It's the only manufacturer that produces the

entire car, including the engine, right?

Oh, no, Ferrari, Ferrari.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry, but then don't forget you got you got a Mercedes

in the back of McLaren.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

And Mercedes in the house is what?

No, that's Ferrari anyway.

I think that was a big part of why that Merc was so

good was the fact that they married engine up

from day one.

Oh, when those when the was it 2016 those the new

V6 regulations came out.

That engine was that engine was light years ahead

of anybody else.

Yeah, yeah.

Does this mean that we're going to get a BMW engine?

Aston Martin, because the Aston Martin's currently

get their engines from AMG.

So whether or not they end up.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I wonder what they do on the buff.

Yeah, like I said with AMG have that flat plane crank

eight cylinder engine that they have from the black

series.

I don't know.

I haven't seen Razor's video on his GT 55 AMG.

I don't know if those cars, I don't know what

those cars have engine wise, whether they have a

the flat plane or they have a traditional V8 or

I'm not sure.

I think I think the traditional because it still sounds

good that the problem with that flat plane.

Yeah, it doesn't sound very good.

Is it sounds it doesn't sound great at all.

And so I think yeah, I think that that GT 55 still

has the four liter.

So maybe AMG gets to live on with let's make it up

like three engine choices, you know, like a few V8

and a flat plane crank one and then you've got

Mercedes themselves ended up using.

Yeah, all your BMW engines for their day to day

vehicles.

I mean, Joe, I mean, you'll be the first person to

say it, but like they're all those engines are great.

So it won't make the cars worse, but the biggest

problem to have as a business is they then become

beholden to BMW.

And so BMW go, no, you can't have them anymore.

We don't have a business.

You can't build a business of someone else's engines.

Not the whole business.

You can have obviously engines borrowed from people,

but I mean, Aston Martin would have the same

problem if Mercedes then go, well, we're not

giving you our engines because we don't really

make engines anymore.

Well, then where do they go?

They have to come to BMW or Porsche or, you know,

how does that work?

Do you not have to?

I mean, I guess this is more of a thing for

internal combustion engine cars.

For me, though, I think the engine's kind of

such a crucial part of the soul of the car.

I know it says the guy with the McCann Park

downstairs with an Audi engine in it.

But the, you know, for Mercedes, I don't know,

maybe it's not important in the lower entry level

cars, maybe people don't care.

They just want a car that is a good price, well,

well-specced and is going to be reliable.

That's probably who it's only, you know, petrol head

balls like us.

They go, oh, with a flat plane, frankly, it doesn't

sound nearly as good as the other one.

Who cares?

Yeah, I think, I think you're right.

There's definitely two types of customer in most

brands, especially Mercedes.

The majority of Mercedes customers just want the

Mercedes badge and that's why, unfortunately,

they've almost failed over the past 20 years or

more or less.

It's because they've just kind of become displace

and complacent, whatever the saying is.

Yeah, complacent.

It's a badge.

It's a bit like a five-star hotel in London.

And I know over the last few years, they've

all kind of up their games a bit, but I know

some of them really weren't great, but it was

a five-star hotel with a big name in London.

Therefore, people are always going to book it.

But, and it's the same with the Merc.

It's like, I'll have a Mercedes because I want

my neighbours to see that I've got a Mercedes.

And then you've got the AMG customer, which I

think they've really missed the trick with, where

that AMG customer wants a nice sounding V8 or

V12 and they can't, you can't just feed them

nonsense.

But anyway, I'm waiting for the segue here,

Pet.

Come on.

There's the next, we're going to move on to

something else, Mercedes.

Well, yeah, no.

So if they're having a problem with their

internal combustion engines, just how far

can they go with their EV side of things?

Well, they've tried their best to go as far as possible.

That was amazing.

So, because apparently they can go quite a long

way or can they?

So it looks like this story, there's two sides

of this story.

There's there's one side that we want to talk

a lot about because Michelin were involved

in this project.

And then the other side is the more Mercedes

side of things.

So should we just set the context?

Who's going to set the context?

Pat, you seem to be the moderator and the sensible.

Yeah, I've got the article up in front of me.

And then, oh, see, that's one ahead of me and Joe.

And then we can start picking it apart.

So it says in Mercedes Benz has borrowed the Porsche

Taycan because they couldn't sell any of them

and rebodied it to make Mercedes concepts

AMG GTXX because that is what it looks like.

It looks like someone's modified a Porsche Taycan.

But this is a concept.

Not a Porsche Taycan.

No, no, it's not.

It's a concept four door AMG called the AMG GTXX

and it's an electric vehicle.

It was released, I think a few months ago,

like not very long ago at all.

And this is a, as always, this is a development

place and a test bed for upcoming charging battery

EV technology.

And so Mercedes have set themselves a challenge.

They were set themselves a challenge to drive and drive.

I think the basically the full distance around the around

the earth.

So what's that?

It's 40,000 kilometers to the Earth's circumference

to drive 40,000 kilometers in under eight days.

That was their aim.

That would require them to do an average speed of 186

miles an hour or 300 kilometers an hour.

This is all whilst the car being electric.

So we know what that means.

You've got to charge it at point two.

And yeah, they be they will.

They have 25 performance records and they average

3,300 miles per day.

Right.

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

Yeah, charging levels.

Can we do a little bit of a buck?

Well, they had two vehicles.

They had to be asked if they use they used to right.

So there are two cars.

Yeah.

So while one was charging, the other one kept going.

Yes.

So so they really they need to half that number or double

the number of days in my book.

Yeah, I think they've showcased to play devil's advocate

against you.

They've showcased that these cars can perform at high

speeds for a very long period of time, which is brilliant.

And I will say the thing I was most surprised by and

engaged by was the fact that they have an average charging

power of 850 kilowatts, which that I mean, that's very

impressive because they would charge the AMI in like

two seconds.

Yeah.

What would the charging infrastructure be on board

then that would be way more than like 800.

But I'd be like silly bolt architecture in the EV

does it say?

Yes, the EV generates peak output of a thousand kilowatts

because of three motors.

It has two oil called Axel flux motors, which combines

the transmission and invert it into one single housing

makes it significantly more powerful, lighter, more power

dense and requires one third of the installation space

and delivers continuous output and torque.

It doesn't mention just trying to read here about the

how it delivers the power to the vehicle as in charging.

It doesn't necessarily say but yeah, they had I did see

a small video on it.

They did have a very custom obviously again, development

level, you know, research level, level charger that did

work.

So that's great.

How we implement those worldwide is obviously a different

question, but they did something very cool.

The coolest part about it was the tires though.

Right before we get into the tires, here's my analogy

with my issue, right?

So I'm going to set a new record for running round

Goodwood.

I'm going to run as far as I can for 24 hours, right?

So see just exactly how far I can run for 24 hours, right?

That would be one.

So or I could say actually me and Joe are going to run

as far as we can run Goodwood 24 hours.

I'm going to run for an hour and then while I'm

resting Joe runs for an hour and when and then between

us, the two of us would run further than one of us

would run on our own because you have to rest.

Can I just do, can I do five minutes since and

you can do the hour?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, but that's that's the issue I have.

So I would have been much more impressed had they

decided to just use one car and take into account

the charging points and the charging time rather

than running two cars because it almost for me.

I think the record would have been more impressive

if they'd have only used one car.

I totally agree with you, Ben.

I think I think as Pat and I discovered, especially

when we did our Passat mileage challenge that we

were trying to use two cars.

Did you use two cars?

Yeah, yeah.

We actually I actually used two Patrick's as well

because the first one got really tired.

But I think what we found out when we're researching

that and we definitely weren't going to try and beat

the record because we knew that was going to be

almost impossible and and it turned out to be

impossible class anyway was with our route, etc.

But what we found out in terms of like the Guinness

World Record is providing you've got the funds.

Firstly, you need what?

What did you work out?

How much it costs about 20 grand or something to get?

Yeah, it's like they won't speak to you unless

unless you say you've got at least 10 grand to give

them to get a world record.

So sorry, can we just I just assumed if you

wanted to Guinness World Record, you rang up

Norris McWhorter.

No, he's probably dead now, isn't he?

But and say, can you come along?

You've got to pay them.

Oh, so I went through this process.

Yeah.

Now you can as an individual.

It's I found it almost impossible to to get it to get

to get to the point of understanding how to submit

or be a part of Guinness World Record.

Instead, the second you say, I'm working with a

brand, they get brilliant.

Our prices start at 10 grand.

Would you like to speak to our agency about how

we engage and I reckon a ballpark if for Mercedes

so they were not only is that where it was?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they were there for what was it eight days

or seven or eight days?

Yes, eight days of driving.

So probably 14 days, 20 days they would have had two or

three minimum people from Guinness there for the entire

time before and after it would have cost I reckon it

would have cost Mercedes minimum 250,000 pounds for

that record because they would need people there

and you get adjudicating the whole time.

So before they've even started and this is

where records become a little bit blurry because

I mean, if I had the money, I could maybe try and make a

record for the longest time spent on my toilet taking a

poo is, you know, has anyone if the money is there as

anyone going knowing you knowing you you'd smash the

record to be fair exactly.

Exactly.

So there's a world record and what I'm trying to

get at is therefore you could really I mean the

records are, you know, there's so many different

things you go for.

And then when you get to EVs because they're a relatively

new concept to a new car that obviously records are

going to be broken all the time if it comes to doing

this in an electric car and I think this particular

challenge and Pat and I heard whispers about this

obviously through Michelin before and then I just

remember thinking what bizarre record to go for like

what a weird like it's not something to really I

don't understand apart from what they've learned with

the charging technology which is going to benefit

owners in the future and what they run what they've

learned with the tire which we're going to talk about

because the tire what they would have learned in

that small space of time is similar to what they

would learn at Le Mans and so I can understand

Michelin's investment and you know they're going to

take away a lot from what they've developed and

what they've learned on this challenge.

But in terms of a record it's just like the more

you look into it like you said pet the two cars

it's like it's two cars and 15 drivers.

I think the I think the two car thing I think I've

just looked up so like how long was the charging

time and so they can put 250 miles into the car

in five minutes right for me like that record.

Okay.

It would have been reduced a bit but like five

minutes for 250 miles like I can't do the math

because 186 miles an hour like five minutes

isn't wouldn't have been you still win the record

because this is a record you're setting for the

first time right so I think you're right the one

car thing because then that is genuinely very

important to sit at 186 miles an hour like

said we'll get on to what that means for ties

as well and what they'll learn out of that

and the products that will come out of it

but that's very impressive for nothing to

overheat for everything to go right.

They had a bunch of different that's 17 drivers

George Russell was one of them Dorian Pan

as well the female driver from F1 Academy.

Chris was out there as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of that which but yeah you think

how much how much would that have cost millions

millions and millions and millions of millions.

Yeah, it's into the multiple millions for sure

easily and I just to me I struggle to understand

what what that is going to give back to Mercedes

in terms of what they invested into it.

It just doesn't it doesn't make any sense.

I guess we're talking about it.

Yeah, we are talking about it but I just don't.

Yeah, I mean it's a bizarre it is bizarre but I think

the bizarre is for me the bizarre thing of all

of this thinking about it now my joke at

the beginning about the Taycan is they will

release a AMG GT four door which is a car

that already exists they'll make an electric

version that's the kind of the whole point

of this concept car is that at some point

there'll be a four door AMG electric car

which is really like a Taycan.

Now if I was if I was in the if I was in the financial

department of Mercedes who was really struggling

to sell anything having to use BMW engines

because of that element you know they're in a bit

of turmoil at the moment trying to build a

competitor for a car that famously doesn't sell

and like has horrendous depreciation is probably

not where I would go but you're but like

we just talked about they're behind they're

so far behind the curve.

I think Mercedes that they started developing

this you know probably before the Taycan was

even a thing or as the Taycan hit the market

in the Covid years when everyone wanted a Taycan

you're paying over the odds for a Taycan this

is when they would have started you know

really developing this car and by the time

it's finally surfaced and this is where

you got to take your hat off to the and

as much I'm not a Chinese car fan this way

you have to take your hat off to the Chinese

because the Chinese could could could think

that up and build it develop it in six

months you know whereas the Germans take

six years and and I think by the time

this car hits the market who is going

to want it because if you don't want

the Taycan Turbo S sports orismo which

I'm actually getting in a couple of months

as a press car which I know will be an

incredible piece of technology and car

but if you don't want to spend 200 grand

on that then why are you gonna why why would

you like you're not going to be like oh

wow it would charge 800 how how fast

is your home charger that it's not that

fast is it how fast is your charger

down the road at your shell petrol

station 150 kilowatts I think you're

lucky to get 100 kilowatts out of so

that 800 volt or 800 watt whatever

it is technology is great but it's not

realistic is it you're not going to have

I mean you're never going to get to

charge it like that no I'm going to I'm

going to kind of cancel it there's a

few things so well actually the first

one I'm going to say is if you're

going to do a record like that when

we were at the car fest Chris and

Julie Ramsey were there and they they

drove their electric Nissan area from

the magnetic North Pole to the South

Pole and they got a Guinness World

Record they've got to Guinness World

Records that that's a kind of more cool

record because that's they actually

did it they didn't just drive around

a test track and then they didn't do

it under they didn't swap cars in

like Central Europe and go just one

car but but no the way you go in a

way I get these challenges because

it's how you you push technology

that that you could well have come

downstream right so we're going to

move to chat about the tires and I'm

going to start off by if we look back

to when Veyron Bugatti Veyron was

developed a lot of people questioned

why you would want to develop a car

that would do 250 miles an hour

it's a waste of time well Mishlan

were key to that cars speed record

because they developed specific

tires for it the pilot sport packs

tire that went on it and at the

time that was a completely bespoke

tire just for Veyron you had to

change it every three high speed runs

they were like five thousand pound a

corner and but that technology years

later is now fundamental to the cup to

our tire that we've talked about on

the podcast lots of times that is

effectively an off-the-shelf tire

so there are things the charging

technology thing I under yet at

the moment you're lucky if you get

a couple of hundred kilowatts

and interesting talking to the guys

from car fest about charging a typical

you know like a forecourt where you

might have I don't know six to ten high

speed charges to build one of those

is like five million quid you know

so it because they you know if you

had like a 200 to 250 kilowatt

charge station and there's like ten

of them that probably draws the same

amount of power as a small village

so you have to have your own substation

so it's not that you can't do it

it just costs a lot of money because

one of the questions is why haven't

you got that kind of high speed

charger in rural areas like Cornwall

or Devon and it's it's a simple

question of build and they will come

it costs a lot of money to build it

so we're only going to build them

where we know they're going to get

lots of cars coming in because

then we get a return on investment

so it might be the chicken or egg

though isn't it very chicken or egg

because it's the same it's the same

for broadband you know a fiber

OPTIQ broadband rollout it's the same

for 5g mobile telecoms rollout

it's the same for you know anything

like every kind of things even a

corner shop that a corner shop

in your local village like there

has to be a business study there

right business they might they might

have learned something about 800

volts but let's chat about tires

before we start dissing the thing

completely because the tires

it Michelin were key to this

project because if you're going

to run a car at 200 and what was

170 of miles an hour for 186 other

86 it's the tires going to need to be

quite good right yes yeah I've got

I've got the document up again

if you'd like me to just give you a

very brief because you well you're

the center where you always have it

and you're like Richard Osmond on

pointless so Michelin spent five

years of research and development

using dynamic tire and vehicle

simulations coupled with unique

manufacturing processes to build

a pilot sport 5 energy tire so this

tire is is going to be new to the

range and will be kind of commercially

available from 2026 this car was

running 265 4020s and 295 4020s on the

rear they had RFID chips in the

tires to monitor them and optimize

kind of their use as well but

I think a big part of this of the

bits of this that I think are

hugely impressive for me is is I mean

Joe you spoke about this immediately

you're like oh what's the racing on

the tire because to sit at 186 miles

an hour even if you I mean we've

all done that when we went to the

Nurburgring and it's like you get a

buzz well Pete didn't because it was

in Geo Yaris but yeah you get a

buzz out of it 140 but you're

doing it it feels like forever but

you're doing it for like a minute

like not even a minute like 30

seconds 20 seconds whatever it is

until you can see that trafficking

you've got to slow down safely but

Joe yeah you were talking about the

the rating of the tires and to

consistently do that speed for so

long is is insane the energy that's

going through them the heat and the

energy that you know and even though

Nardo is I think it's like an eight

mile or six mile loop so it's a

very gradual turn but you're still

turning on a banking so you're

still putting is it lateral load

to the tire as yeah so you've got

that we know that the car is going

to weigh a lot because it's an EV

so it's going to be minimum 250

key to two and a half tons and in

fact look at the rear tires they're

one one three why which means that

those tires are rated to carry one

point 1150 kilos each weight the

rear tires so I don't think I've

ever seen a one one three why

tire but so they're designed not

only to carry that load but

they've also got to carry a certain

amount of or a lot of weight a lot

of forward propulsion they've got to

go at those speeds which as we

talked about the very one the

biggest thing with that and a

regular tire or any kind of tire

radial tire is the centrifugal

forces because the tire obviously

the faster it goes the bigger it

wants to expand and on what

happens with tires that aren't

designed to do high speed is

eventually the car because

everything just gives way the

sidewall goes so it's got all of

these crazy metrics that it

needs to live up to and even

somewhere like Le Mans or an F1

and I know Michelin aren't part

of F1 but or an F1 tire is

yeah they get to these 186

mile an hour regularly on most

straights but it's only for a

couple of seconds here and

there and then they slow down

then this week but on this

they're constantly doing that

and as we know if you get off

the motorway even at 70 mile an

hour after an hour if you feel

the temperature in your tires

they've gotten up quite a bit

even in the middle of winter

you get tire temperature just

from that friction so what

they've learned and this is

Michelin's philosophy philosophy

this is I mean it's always

been you know learning in

motorsports or now you know

with these sort of records is

is putting that technology into

your road tires and I think by

my understanding this is already

a tire that they've basically

developed and is pretty much

ready for off the shelf it's

called what is it say it's

a pilot sport five energy

tire so so yeah it's it the

end result for Michelin

getting involved with a project

like this is is basically making

our tires better and better

and that top of the range

tire that I'm sure isn't a

cheap tire especially for that

size and that or that car that

technology trickles down to the

the sort of more affordable

everyday tire Michelin tire

that you find on your Volkswagen

Golf yeah so it's it's it's

amazing what they would find

out doing something like this

project and record but the

record itself it's just yeah

it's funny if you if you take

the two main parties involved

in this record I totally get

why Michelin living it yeah and

why they gave but I just failed

to the see the Mercedes side

of things but as well just to

chat about a high speed runs

and high speed records in

general is is that it's it's

always the tire that really

starts to become an issue I

don't know what we're going

to talk about this record before

I mentioned that our Chinese

friends doing the EV speed

record last week I was just I

was actually just going to

quickly connect this I just

saw the final thing in this

press release here is about it

has a dual rubber architecture

so much like with a bike

tire the outer edges of this

tire has the latest generation

in energy passive compound which

allows for energy reducing

energy consumption very important

for electric but the center

has new adaptive grip compound

which maximizes grip on dry

wet surfaces so there you go

yeah a bit of PR speak for you

sorry about that that's exactly

what I said straight out of a

press release that was that's

the kind of thing you know

when you cook go and have to

do like a video or you're

filming like a launch and

they give you a press release

and I'm going to remember

that and then try and

recount it back to camera

without reading it and then

I don't know what you're

like I'll go yeah I'll do

that bit in VO then voice

over or get it right then

but the high speed thing

because although this isn't

this car wasn't on Michelin's

but lots of the high speed runs

are we've talked about Veyron

and Chiron and so on the Yang Wang

you nine which is an EV has just

break broken the fastest EV

production speed record

it's 3000 horsepower

right and it did 472.41

kilometers an hour which is

what about 300 293 miles an hour

yeah and and you just

I'm looking at that thinking

oh my goodness it's got its power

to weight ratio is 1,217 horsepower

per ton but it's the because

I know that Koenigsegg reckon

that they could they could do

more than 300 miles an hour

maybe even 350 miles an hour

but it's the tires it starts

to rubber tire irrespective

of how well they're designed

and you know they're designed

specifically for those high

speed runs the central

Fugal forces on them are just

so high like you said Joe

they just rip themselves apart

even things like the valve

and the valve caps by the time

you add the amount of G

that they're going around

they suddenly start weighing

tens and tens of kilograms

if a hundred two kilograms

and you look at the high

speed run cars that do

like land speed records

like thrust SSC

and I know bloodhound

never really happened

but they're all on on alloy wheels

basically the whole thing is

made of an alloy compound

no rubber at all

and then you look

you've got to look at the cost

for someone like Michelin

to invest into that

and then actually is a tire

that does 300 miles an hour

plus is that is that ever

going to trickle down to us

you know they're going to

learn stuff from it

but that's just

that's such an extreme

and it's like

because that even makes

that even makes hypercar

at Le Mans look slow

well exactly

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it

Yeah, I think you don't also learn stuff

but I was going to say

you've also got to then

got to consider the fact that

they there is a like a lifetime

of this product as well

so you build a share on

or you build a Kearney's egg

but you look at Veyron now

the unfortunate reality is

like you can't buy Pax tires

they don't produce them

like they used to

and so if you have a Veyron now

you basically have to buy

off some market wheels

and put on other Michelin tires

that are factory fit

because I think a Pax tire

as well is like 20 and a half inches

and stuff like they were very bespoke

and so not just on a sustainability

of the environment side

but as a sustaining like

with Crera GT

they brought out a new tire

with that right

so that there's a new Michelin tire

that fits that car

with these Kearney's eggs

and the assurance and stuff

you need to have

sustained high speed

but in 20 years time

if you serviced it correctly

and stuff you still want your share

on to be able to go do

whatever its top speed is

and you could spend all the money

in the world

to make this crazy tire

but if they can't keep making those

for the life cycle of that vehicle

for the projected life cycle

of supplying that

because the tire is as important

as a service

as all those other elements

that needs to be maintained

you can't just run old tires

meaning to always be changing those

particularly on cars like that

that don't do loads of mileage

so I think that's a big part of it

I'm sure they could develop a tire

that could do 500 miles an hour

whatever it is

but like

they've got to make that for the next 10 years

and is that financially viable

if they're doing it for a run of 10 cars

on a sheer or not something

and even stuff like the PAX tire

talking to the guys

a pro tire at Carfest

because we have this converse

this question come up

and is the PAX tire

the way it's fitted to the wheel

it's effectively glued onto the wheel

and you have to have a special machine

to put the tire on the wheel

and take the tire off the wheel

and most tire centres won't have that

so the car has to basically go back to Bugatti

to have the tires changed

at £20,000 a set

and every every

is that why you haven't got a Veyron

that's yeah that's why I didn't buy one

yeah cost of ownership

it's the tires that went over the edge for me

yeah just the tires

and then every third set of tires

you have to have the wheels inspected

for cracks

and and and so on

and more often than not

you need a new set of wheels

at every three sets of tires

yeah it's another level

oh mate could you imagine

but yeah no so I don't know

the speed record thing

the last bit for me and

is speed records are all very well and good

until something goes wrong

and you know we kind of saw that a little bit

with went with the old SSC to a tar

obviously that went wrong because they faked it

but you know talking to Oli Webel

and seeing him being interviewed about it

it not not a lot has to go wrong

when you're doing over 200 miles an hour

if I don't argue over 150 miles an hour

for it to be a big accident

and for these manufacturers if it was

you know the tire manufacturer

whose tire had an issue at that kind of speed

or the or the manufacturer the car

the PR you go from being hero

because you just made a car like the Yang Wang

you know I do 420 odd kilometers an hour

to being the worst PR disaster ever

so I kind of don't really understand

the whole high speed thing

if I'm honest

have you seen the new Kearnigsegg one

the zero to 400 to zero again

in 25 seconds or something

let me get out that's cool 400

they'd be because it was taken back

by there's a bit of a rivalry between Kearnigsegg

and Rimac

yeah and great bands

yeah yeah like really positive

back and forth yeah

Matty Rimac was he posted something didn't he

just saying yeah he posted Instagram real yeah

and that's that's great to see

because I think I mean that's unbelievable

it's yeah I think someone like

Matty and Rimac and

Ron now obviously Bugatti part of it

I think they can respect someone like Kearnigsegg

and vice versa

like they are the big players

the real players in the game

and so they probably have a lot of respect for each other

in that well they clearly do

but yeah naught to 400 to naught

that's that's incredible

and I think lap times as well

I know David

I don't I can't remember which brand it was

but David Pitard

set a lap record in an electric

something recently around the Nurburgring

and it was a

it was a very impressive lap

and that to me appeals more

like if I see that I'm like okay well fair play

like that's a heavy

electric sports car

it's done a good lap time but I think

yeah an electric car that's just the high speeds

the high speed run because it

is it because of aerodynamic drag

is it something like the

you have to quadruple the horsepower to double the speed

like I remember what the numbers are but

yeah it's all horsepower basically

so it's been to go from

to go from 250 miles an hour to 300 miles an hour

isn't like yeah 10% increase in power

it's like you want to know something

yeah yeah the exact numbers here

I'll just I'll just read them out

so 0 to 250 miles an hour and back to 0

was 25.67 seconds

Wow 0 to 215 miles an hour was 17 seconds

and 250 to 0 was 8.49 seconds

250 miles an hour to 0

in 8.5 seconds

with your face crossed against the dashboard

oh my god

that's absurd

I mean 0 to 250 miles an hour

17 seconds what what's a car

I look I'm gonna age you to here

what's a car in your childhood that was quite fast

and what was it 0 to 60 because

like what was it early

anything in single figures was like

yeah under 10 yeah

7, 8, 9 seconds

yeah I think 100 miles an hour pat

when we were younger so hot hatch

that would do 100 miles an hour

and under 17 or 18 seconds as quick

I would say

I don't know what the what the

yeah like a goal

I'm sure I don't know about you

when we were at school and I'm sure this is like

you know a kind of bike shed chat

but someone said at school

so obviously became instantly the law

that the the rev counter

although the odometer in a car

had to display 20 miles an hour

more than the car's maximum speed

so we'd always go around when we saw fast cars

looking through to sit

oh this one does 140

oh really

does 120 miles an hour

yeah

I don't know when I would

yeah yeah

oh no this one goes up to 200

wow

yeah yeah yeah

yeah

unless it was Italian

if it was Italian then you had to knock off

about 60 mile an hour

but yeah yeah

yeah no I can't remember you know

anything over 100 miles an hour was

pretty punchy

and then you look back

when you drive some

what are now called modern classics

the even the hot hatches and stuff

they're doing 60 in I don't know

seven eight seconds something like that

would you two both be able to tell me

the fastest you went in your first car

do you think you can rattle that one off of your head

I know what mine is

in my first car that I like

yeah yeah so your first car

your your first car

Mark one Ford Fiesta

probably about a hundred and four hundred and five

I remember going over a hundred miles an hour down hill

it had to be down hill

you've got to remember

Peds from a different era

so we're talking about horse and car

that's not really like

that was a Mark one Ford Fiesta shut up

it's not that old

yeah well my

I think it was about 120 indicated in my Golf

GTI

which um

which

was that your first car

yeah it was it

it was a pretty shit

Golf GTI

if I must say so

it was the Mark four

two liter

eight valve

hundred really heavy one

built like a tank

over engineered beautifully

that was literally a slowest thing on the planet

I think it was over 10 seconds to 60

but yeah

you might be hearing more about

that actual car

on my main channel very soon

say no more

not going to spoil it completely

but yeah

my one

I was going to say

sorry my one

my one was scary

because it was in my classic Mini

which I still have

but it was my first car

oh my God

and I did 68

I did ways

so not

not indicated

because obviously it was going like this

as we're going down the

but yeah

weighs 93 miles an hour in a classic

mate I've done

I've done 35 in that

and I thought I was going to die

everything was shaking

it was all like

I just like to say

by the way guys

we did all of these things

in Germany

in Mexico

yes

I forgot to say

I took the private road

in Mexico

the Autobahn

yeah

when I was on the autobahn

in the Mini

yeah

wow

we better hurry up

with our last

because I'm not hurry up

but we're now into the hour

basically

yeah

and I think we just

finished

well

oh yeah

we forgot that

I've asked

yeah I did research

for this and everything

two

two options

that

that are like the must-have option

options

in your car

so if you're speccing a car today

or if you're

buying a used car

and I know it's very

varied

and there's

so many directions

you can go in

whether it's like

a certain paint color

or whatever

or an option itself

what

yeah

what are your two must-have options

and what are your two

least favorite options

ones that you just

don't care about

or you wouldn't have

what apart from a GTS interior pack

oh that was my joke

oh I put that down

that was one of my

options

the GTS interior pack

I knew you'd be doing it

I just thought I'd just

say it off straight away

that's so do I

literally got it written down here

GTS interior pack for Pete

I'll give you that one

I'm there first

yeah

oh wait are we going

are we going must-have first

or not

we'll do a must-have first

I think let's let's do

both of the must-haves

and we can discuss them

and then we can all do two

and then

okay

yeah

for me

the must-have

and it is a

showstop

to the point

where I wouldn't buy a car

unless it has a pan roof

or no roof

okay

nice yeah

I don't think

does it have to open

or just be a glass roof

because no

the big no

just it has to be

a glass roof

preferably it will open though

but we

I don't think we've ever owned a car

without a pan roof

or what we used to call sunroof

back in the day

but yeah

so that's absolute

what's your other

what's your next one

as well

Ped you might as well do your

the next one

that is

the two very close ones

one is

the

whatever the upgrade stereo is

in that car

so let's say a boast

or something like that

or the

best

nicest wheels

I've never go for a car

with bog standard wheels

always has to have

like the

largest

or the nicest set of wheels

wheels for me

are super important

but when you say sometimes

sometimes base wheels

are the nicest wheels

say

never

not for us

oh well

I've got the G

yes it doesn't matter

yeah

I like center lock wheels

where you can't get

you know I only had those

for four weeks

though didn't I

thank God

with your pun

with your punter record

oh my God

right there

yeah

so there you go

there you might

nice

Pat

so mine

I actually don't have

even these things

but I think I would

if I was to

get another modern car

that's not the

Passat

I think I've

I definitely think these

two would be

would be on my list

reversing camera

I don't have a reversing

camera on the Passat

and I hadn't owned

such a long car

for a while

for me

it was always bit

daunting parking

it's got

reversing sensors

which is fine

it means I can park it

but you know

you want to

make sure you get the back

of the car

into the parking

place

perfectly

just that camera

the 360 camera system

I think is a

is a no-brainer

you got to have that

what's wrong with

a mirror and a window

well that's what I've got now

but I'd much rather

have a 360 camera

and the second one is

and I don't understand

why this isn't on

all cars these days

and maybe one of you

two will be able to tell me

but a heads up display

what

that is

the technology of that

I don't want

the fancy ones

the BMW has

where it has 3D graphics

in the road

showing you

which way to turn

I want a very clear

black and white

or just white text

or whatever it is

you know

on a background

giving me speed

potentially giving me

who's incoming call

maybe it's

basic written navigation

or something simple

but why doesn't all cars

it doesn't

it can't

it must be a costing

or something

because I don't know

but

you rarely see them

in cars

and at one point

it felt like

it was the future

but not anymore

apparently

yeah

I agree with you

I think

head up display

and I talked about it

loads of my videos

over the years

it should be

mandatory

it's such a safety thing

and a lot of brands

aren't on board

I know Porsche

aren't great with it

they've

am I wrong in saying

you can't even get it

for things like

yeah

but for

I know you can get it

now on

on the new

McCann

and that one's

weird

because it's got

yeah

they do a virtual one

or I can't remember

augmented

head up display

it makes you feel sick

so you turn that off

straight away

but

but yeah

I agree

I think

I think it's a

very

it's an amazing

piece of technology

that

that adds safety

and

practicality

so yeah

and

as well as your speed

it should show

what gear

you are currently

if you have a

flappy paddle car

yeah

that is my

biggest bug bear

when the

gear indicator

is some tiny

three-point

font

bloody thing

on the dashboard somewhere

so yeah

right Joe

what are you also

must have

or what gear

you're about to go into

yeah that would be for you

if you're driving a manual

ha ha ha

no no no

I mean there's lots

but I think

for me

living in the UK

one must have

option

is heated seats

love them in the winter

I think they're just

I don't need those

don't need those

especially in a commercial

bucket seats

yeah

you don't need to

need to take

a stutter

and rubbish it

I also don't have them

in my M2 anymore

because I've got

I've put the

rikaros in there

yeah kind of goes again

to what I'm saying

but I guess that's

that's a nice option

and the other option

is cruise control

I think cruise control

was

is a must have

adaptive

or just any cruise control

well

because I know people

who will only buy a car

if it's got adaptive

cruise

okay well

as I'm lost

in what to have

what not to have

and you've just asked

that question

one of my favorite

options

now I will start

the least favorite options

one of my least favorite

options

especially in the UK

is adaptive cruise control

I don't think

the more I spend

time in cars

with adaptive cruise control

it just drives me

crazy

so I

hate adaptive cruise control

do you not

do not think it makes people lazy

yeah

I think

yeah there's that element to it

and I think any of those augmented

driving

features

that some are getting better and better

I think that

yes

you tend to switch off too much

but I just think

without traffic levels

without level of

driving ability

the way people cut you up

if you leave a safe gap and

yeah

or adaptive cruise

drives me nuts

and what I don't understand is

if you

buy like a top of the range

are

1300

GS motorbike

so the

the daddy

if you like

of what I've got

that comes with that

or you can option

adaptive cruise control

but you can turn the adaptive feature

on and off

you as far as I've

ever discovered on any car

if it's got adaptive cruise control

you can't just

you can't just turn the adaptive bit off

it's either adaptive cruise control

or you turn it off altogether

and I don't understand why

with technology today

if you've got adaptive

why you can't just press a switch

that just reverts it back to regular cruise control

maybe that's a safety issue

because

you might have done that by accident

so that's

yeah

so that's right

and he's got some numpty

who's forgotten they've turned it off

and just drives into the back of another car

yes

yeah

that's probably what it comes down to

yeah

and I think another

my second least favorite option

and now

as far as I know

it is a

it's a permanent fixture in all modern cars

as in

an option you can't avoid

but if I was

but only a few years ago

it was something that people actually used to spec

stuff like

lane departure

it's a legal requirement now

it's a legal requirement

but only a few years ago

it was something you could option in

it's a bit like

Bonnie

it's a bit like your

dashboard feature in your AMI Patrick

it's a feature that nobody

nobody

nobody wants

so yet

I'm gonna

all of those

safe

I'm gonna option in herpes to my life

that sounds like a great idea

itchy seats

yeah

so yeah

they're my two

I mean there's many more

there's a wider discussion

but they're my two

what about you guys

I'm not

there's not a great

I mean

any of the ADAS

the modern-day ADAS systems

just do my nut

and

but I know that they're not

they're not

something that

you know

modern-day

manufacturer can

kind of

not put in the car

because they're

they're a legal requirement

I've got four

if you'd like me to go

and this might inspire you

going

one of them is not really an option

but it's a

it's a

I still think it's a valid point to make

number one

wireless apple carplay

there is no point

having wireless apple carplay

because every time you get in your car

irrelevant if you're Joe Achilles

and need your phone to be at 100% to live

or whether you just do it because it's convenient

you're always plugging in your phone

you never don't plug in your phone

and wireless chargers are great

wireless chargers are great and all

in cars

but they overheat

and they're not always reliant

and sometimes you get out the car

and your phone's on 10% battery

because you've been using wireless carplay

the charger hasn't kicked in properly

and you

your day's now ruined

so forget wireless carplay

your phone is

10 centimeters away from your arm

plug it in

it doesn't matter

you can't touch it anyway

so it doesn't need to be wireless

just plug it in

wireless carplay is pointless

wireless carplay

when you just nip into the shops and back is

is great

it's a cable

how many

how hard is it to unplug or plug it

I'll die on this hill

how hard or not hard is it to unplug a cable

look

look at this

look watch watch watch

look at that

you're telling me when you go to the petrol station

that you can't do that

it's ridiculous

I can plug it in a hole

it's no problem

but it's when you've got two people in the car

so if we both go out

and it's like which phone connects to the carplay

yeah

so just have wide carplay

then it doesn't matter

yeah

okay

I'm not convinced about that

I'm glad you got four

go unpack carry on

auto high beam

it's not good enough

in the same way that aid assistance aren't good enough

auto high beam is not good enough

yeah that

I want to be in control of the little thing for the high beam

okay

so what about

what about the whole matrix lights thing then

I've never driven a car

I don't have made fully adaptable

I didn't I haven't got experience in this

yeah

has

it has got better

and I think it's paid said

I think it that very much depends on the brand

and the manufacturer

and the the era of

because the adaptive headlights have been around now

I think BMW

as far as I'm aware

they started out on the 7 series

back in 2010

ish

so it's been around for 15 years

the full adaptive ones

you know

but yeah

some of them like

had said the the matrix stuff

it's pretty funky these days

but

whenever I've got

whether it's a matrix

state of the art

or a more basic version

you always end up getting flash that

by people

because

it hasn't reacted

because at the end of the day

we can see at night

if we're going along a country road

we could see headlights

reflective of something

or we could

so we will

react to that

before the car even

turns and the driver can see us

whereas

all of these systems

we're proactive

whereas these systems are reactive

and so

they have to see that light

and then react to it

so there's a split second there

where that other drivers

always going to be partially blinded

and then you end up getting a flash

and that

that annoys me

it does annoy me

because then you're like

okay

so then you end up turning the system off

because you don't want to piss other people off

you know

Ben just doesn't give a shit

yeah

he's too busy trying to find his phone

that's

you know been lost into the foot world

because he's not got his car plate plugged in

no the phone

no the phone ran out of battery

ages ago

so he's putting the glove box

all right fine fine

he's too busy

he's too busy trying to figure out

the very simple briefing

that you've given for the next podcast

but

but final

final main point

and then there's a side point

piano gloss interior trim

oh yes

it's a good one

it is dreadful

avoid it option anymore

most manufacturers

that's their standard

just yeah

just it looks terrible

I remember like two weeks

we bought our discovery three

and I'm sure in that

it was like piano black

was like an option in

and the car we bought was a used one

but it had been optioned with it

we thought ice is nice

and then he lived with it for about a day

yeah yeah yeah

no and

yes

but even just the option of changing

trim like that back to you know

wood

you know something that's not shiny

like my

my my Passat has like silver brush

not brushed

just like matted silver plastic

and hasn't it aged as well

yeah

it just doesn't look like it's a brand new

you can barely see this

the scratches and

it doesn't reflect in the light

seven years

eight years old

and it still looks brand new

when you I was in your car recently

and I sat and I was like

this is fine

yeah

it's so nice

so well screwed together

the the aluminium trim

looks as good as it did

when it left the showroom

yeah

and he's new

my M5 has got piano black

absolutely everywhere

and it's just

it just shows everything

all my dandruff

all of Peggy's hairs

it's just disgusting

it's like

yeah anyway

the last

wow

what with my

dandruff

your dandruff and Peggy's hairs

well

Peggy's hairs are longer than my

my hairs

the hairs are black and minor silver

yeah too

and this final one

and we'll leave the podcast on this

anything on a subscription basis

if I have to option something

by paying monthly

I refuse

I don't even care

if it's

something that would save my life

I'm not spending monthlies

on a

on an option

about a bit more power

bit more power

oh god

yeah

anything on a subscription basis

just don't bother

if you can't get it

as an upfront price

just don't bother

because

you're just falling into a trap

it's like trying to clarner

your takeaway food

like what are you doing

just

if you can't afford to

wrap it into a PCP

or put it as the cash price

like do not start paying for

heated seats

that are in the car anyway

just find someone

who can turn them on for you

yeah

ooh

I agree

controversial

agreed

well all right guys

I'm going to say

long history

yeah

because you don't have to go to France now

any

yeah

it's been

as you got the M3 seat

if you got the M3

or you got a

it's

it's getting delivered

at some point today

I mean this is

yeah

anyway

who knows

a topic for another podcast

it's

yeah

it will be delivered at some point today

who knows when

but yeah

looking forward to it

all the same guys

everyone watching

or listening

thank you very much for your support as always

please make sure you subscribe

give us a thumbs up

leave any comments

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or Facebook

and

appreciate all the support

as always

leave any comments

and questions below

give us any ideas

and topics

because there are some

that I am slowly building up

I need to put in our group

that people are suggesting

on Instagram

especially

can you just define

the

the outline of

the requirements

for us

very clearly

outline of the requirements

oh yes of course

whatever the challenge is

just make sure you write

the challenge down

clearly

so I can understand it

for us or for you

for you

for me

obviously

yeah

and then we need

for Joe

we need to define

the

yeah

the spirit of the

sometimes show

gets them wrong

as he did

absolutely nailed that

so yeah

I can't believe you're still jaded about me winning

by so much

weeks later

yeah

it feels great

yeah

anyway

right

he's an owl

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76:23

Mercedes using BMW Engines? Must Have & Must Avoid Options For Your Car |Ep 73| Drive Torque Podcast

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Mercedes-AMG A45 S

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