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Welcome to a very special Thanksgiving episode of The Gas, brought to you by American Cars and
Racing.com.
I'm Gary Gastelew, this is the Gary and Alex show, and with me, of course, Alex Nunez
and Alex, this is definitely not a very special Thanksgiving episode.
I refuse to talk about Thanksgiving weekend travel and that sort of thing.
I'm on board.
I hate all of that fake news filler discussion.
SEO, bait, that said, though, I was looking at the gas prices just because I keep seeing
those stories that are all made up anyway, and they're pretty much exactly the same
as they were last year.
And even if they were a dollar more this year, over a 100, 200 mile Thanksgiving
day trip, if that five or 10 bucks is killing you, I think you have other things to
worry about financially.
I agree.
Listen, I'm the king of using the rewards points for the frequent fills or whatever for the
gas station that I go to, because I'll save, I'll be like, one week, I'll be like, oh,
got 50 cents off between this and the supermarket points.
And it's like $2 or whatever at the end of a couple bucks at the end of the day.
But people love to talk about it.
If the number gets under three, at least up here where we are, that's a win.
Hate to put you on the spot.
Yeah.
But do you have any guess as to how much a gallon of gas costs, a gallon of fuel, I
guess, in Formula One?
I don't.
I don't know.
Roughly $100, I understand.
I think there's a little wiggle room there.
But next year, they're going to be switching to a new sustainable fuel,
which I'm not even sure exactly what that means yet.
I don't think it's the carbon stuff.
They're sucking out of the air.
That's down the road a couple of seasons.
But it's sustainable in some fashion.
And apparently it's going to cost on the order of $600, $700, maybe even $1,000 a gallon.
That would be a problem on Thanksgiving.
Really sustainable for the person selling the sustainable fuel.
That's for sure.
We're talking a lot about Formula One these days with Cadillac and Ford
heading to the series.
But, you know, sometimes it goes the other way with open wheel racing.
We had McLaren come to IndyCar a couple of years ago, Prima Racing.
They're Formula Two, but the part of that ladder come into IndyCar.
And then there's the drivers, Marcus Erickson, Alexander Rossi,
Takuma Sado, of course, just to name a few of the recent ones.
Well, next season, we're going to be adding a very big name to that list
as former Hans Formula One driver, Mick Schumacher, who is, of course,
the son of seven time Formula One champion, Michael Schumacher,
is going to be joining the Ray Hall, Letterman, Lannigan, IndyCar team
after two seasons with the Alpine World Endurance Championship team.
Alex, as they say, this is a really big deal, isn't it?
It's a huge win for everybody, I think.
Mick gets back into a single-seater, which I think, you know,
as we saw in his press conference today was was an important thing.
And that's not that's no shot at the World Endurance Championship at all.
But it's huge for IndyCar, huge, great for Ray Hall, Letterman, Lannigan.
Big name, F1 credentials coming back this way,
brings all of that fan base to IndyCar now.
There's going to be a lot of interest in watching him race.
He's going to race in the Indy 500, which is the biggest race on Earth, period.
So total win, you know, good guy.
I feel like easy to root for.
Team seems thrilled about it.
It's just all upside for IndyCar to have this talent come over
and enjoying the series.
Millions and millions of social media followers, of course.
We were in the press conference announcing his arrival in IndyCar.
Here's what he said, sold him on the series.
The passion that people had, you know, to see that and to see how excited
they were about about racing it purely
really showed me that this is something that I could see myself in
and working in as an environment.
So definitely, I think as a whole, it has been very, very good experience.
And I guess therefore I just wanted to, you know, seal it and make sure
that I can get more of that in the next year.
Look, Alex, he's not Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel,
but these Formula One guys, they know how to drive.
Even the ones on the teams that don't do well and it is very car dependent.
They know how to drive and he should make a big impact from day one.
Totally agree.
And in this in this series, you know, the cars, I mean,
everybody's basically got the same car.
You've got a Chevy engine or a Honda engine.
But otherwise, you know, you've same hybrid system, same body kit.
It's what subtle tweaks your team can make to the platform
that is required by IndyCar.
I think it's going to showcase him as a driver really well.
You know, you basically start with the same at the same place for everybody.
And best drivers are going to rise to the top.
I mean, you know, look at Alex Palo.
I mean, the guy's been unbelievable.
Indy cars, they're up a wheel like Formula One cars,
but they are very different.
As you said, here is what he thinks the difference is
and also how they compare to the hypercars he's been driving
in the World Doors Championship.
The car has the windscreen, so there's a lot of air kind of
that is not really being brought to the driver.
So compared to F1, I think that feeling of speed
isn't quite as excessive or as crazy.
You know, and I've wanted one of the big things that stands out
is the speed that you have in acceleration and corners
with the downforce that the cars create.
Obviously, we have quite a bit less downforce
and quite a bit less power in the IndyCar.
So what I kind of reference to was a bit more of a feeling
like an F2 car just with better tires.
And, you know, it is a car that you have to muscle around the track.
So you kind of fight it quite a lot.
You try and, you know, overdrive in some ways
to get performance out of it.
That is obviously very different to all the cars
that I've been racing so far.
You know, you kind of try and underdrive an F1 car
just to get the best performance out of it,
to try and get the best performance out of the tires.
You know, it is very tire driven.
Obviously, championship wise in WEC it is a bit different.
WEC, you do have tendencies where you are
really driving all out and try and get the best
out of the tire and out of the car.
But I think IndyCar just kind of sets a little bit
a higher bar when it comes to really, you know, pushing hard.
So I've really enjoyed it.
The test that I did in Indy has been really fun.
You know, also learning more about the car,
how it behaves, the little things that we can change.
He and there are very interesting.
And I think it's a different driving style.
It's a different car, obviously.
So I can't say if it's more fun or less fun
than an F1, but it's obviously racing a car.
And I think there's nothing more fun than racing a car
or in a racetrack.
In F1, when you start a race,
you have a pretty good idea where you're gonna finish.
It's very based on the car's performance.
In IndyCar, almost anybody can win a race.
You can't hide behind a car that's not a front runner.
How is that for you as far as living up to that challenge?
No, it's great.
I think it's the way it should be.
And I think it's great.
It is down to yourself to really dig deep
and try and get everything out of you.
So yeah, very excited for it.
And I think there's lots to look forward to.
He mentioned the F2 car.
He was actually the 2020 Formula Two champion.
So again, he was stuck on Haas for a couple of years
in a bad car.
You couldn't expect much more from him
than he was able to deliver for that team.
But to win Formula Two, which is much more like
IndyCar really shows the kind of skills this guy has.
The stuff that he brings up is really interesting.
He brought up the windscreen in the IndyCar,
reducing the sort of sense of speed compared to F1.
Because F1, yes, you have a halo, but it's an open car.
So the IndyCar is kind of like a cross
between the European open-meal experience
and to a degree, probably running in WEC
where you're in an enclosed car.
It's a little bit of everything with IndyCar.
One of the big hitches for a lot of drivers
from other series, especially the European drivers,
are IndyCar's oval tracks, particularly the Indy500.
They perceive them to be dangerous, very daunting,
especially Indy, 230 miles an hour
for two and a half, three hours, wheel-to-wheel.
They don't do anything like that
in any of the Formula Series
or even in the sports car racing series.
But it sounds like he doesn't care.
It sounds like he's a dangerous,
my middle name kind of guy.
Yeah, of course.
It's something that I've been thinking about,
but on the other hand, I think motorsport
in a hole is dangerous.
So I don't really see why particularly
that one thing should be more dangerous
than anything else.
Obviously, there's been multiple things
and Jay has been a big part of that
in making overracing or just racing in IndyCar safer.
And therefore, we've had multiple conversations
about that and they've all been positive in my ears.
And so therefore, yeah, that's why
I ultimately took the decision
and I don't think that there is really...
I mean, of course, it's not to be taken on the easy shoulder.
I don't take it on the easy shoulder.
I think that it is crazy speed, it's super quick.
We obviously racing hard side by side,
but I accept the risk for the enjoyment of the racing sake.
I mean, what he said was
he goes, all motorsports is dangerous and it's true.
I mean, you don't know what's gonna happen.
And he's fine with that.
I think all these guys that race are fine with that.
And the ovals are a unique thing.
And that's something that I think gets
that he'll have to learn.
But there is a reason why you win the Indy 500.
Even once, you are part of history, you're legendary,
your face is on the trophy forever after.
All racing is risk-reward.
I think there is a lot of reward to be harvested
in Indy car, especially around the 500.
If you're someone like Mick Schumacher,
who has raced successfully internationally
and now you're coming here to prove your worth
in our open wheel series, which is unique.
One interesting thing I've heard from these drivers
from the Formula Series is that the Indy 500,
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway actually drives
more like a fast road course than an oval to them
with those sort of flat 90 degree turns.
It's obviously not the same,
but it's a very different setup
than you get on the more traditional ovals.
Yeah, I mean, Indy is Indy.
Again, it gets back to what I was just saying.
It's so special because it's so different.
It is unlike every other big oval.
Like you said, because I mean, there's no banking.
You're flat going into those turns.
You can do a Google search and find any number
of stories about what going into turn one at Indy is like.
And that is some hairy stuff.
There's a reason why Indy car drivers,
especially Indy 500 winners or guys that had consistently
run up front at Indy through the years,
there's like hush tones.
This is like heroic stuff going around Indy.
One little interesting thing I noticed,
his father, Michael Schumacher,
seven time Formula One champ, A.J. Foyt
holds the record in Indy car with seven championships.
He's a young guy who's 26
and maybe he's got a shot at tying that record.
Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing.
This is a young driver.
It's not like when Fernando came over
and did the Indy 500 those few times with McLaren.
This is not a sort of guy at the tail end
doing something because it might be interesting or whatever.
He's gonna be all in and he was up front.
He's all in on Indy car.
I think somebody else asked
because RLL also is running in IMSA this year
and in GTD Pro with McLaren.
And they're like, oh, is there a potential
for you because of your sports car pedigree also
that you would take part in RLL's IMSA program?
And he's like, no, he's fully focused on Indy car all in.
That's it.
This is what your focus is.
I think we're gonna see some interesting growth
through the season from him.
Well, while Indy car's wrapping up, it's silly season, Alex.
NASCAR's off season is about to get a little crazy.
The antitrust lawsuit followed by 2311 racing
in front row motorsports against NASCAR
over the latest charter agreements going to trial next week.
And there have been some bombshell exhibits released
ahead of the court proceedings
among them some text messages from 2023
when NASCAR commissioner Steve Phelps
who was then the president of NASCAR
called team owner Richard Childress a stupid redneck
an idiot and a dinosaur
after he had made some critical comments
about the next gen car and how the teams
would benefit under the new media rights deal
tied to the charter negotiations.
With us now to unpack that
and the lawsuit in general
is Mr. NASCAR news himself, Fox Sports reporter,
Bob Pocrus.
Thanks for joining us, Bob.
Thanks for having me on, Gary.
And you forgot ask clown and malcontent.
So you forgot those two in your summary there,
but just want to make sure to get those in there.
It was some string of expletives or clean expletives.
Nevertheless, Hey, Bob, before we get to that though,
you're also one of Fox's IndyCar reporters now.
We're just talking about
Mick Schumacher coming to IndyCar.
You know, for a sport that's got to go up against F1 next year
with Ford and General Motors coming in
and the new cars and the new powertrains
while IndyCar is really just IndyCar again next year
and a lot of big changes there.
How important is this storyline for IndyCar?
To have a big name like Schumacher joining the series.
I think it's incredible for IndyCar
because it brings interest from people who in the US
who have interest in F1
or people maybe have watched Drive to survive
and saw him on back a few years ago on the show
as well as gives another reason for people overseas
and in other countries who follow F1
to maybe take a look and see what Mick can do.
And so, you combine that with Colton Hurta
going over there and running F2.
And if he does well, which we'll see if he does
but it probably piques some more interest into IndyCar
which as you said, that their cars are the same.
Many of the drivers are the same.
One of the big differences this year
will be that you're talking about few new venues
in Phoenix and the Arlington course
around the Cowboys and Rangers stadiums
and the new course in Canada.
So you have that to generate interest
but now with somebody like Mick Schumacher coming
I think that adds another element to it.
Real quick before we get to the children's stuff
the lawsuit itself, as briefly as you can,
if 2311 and F1 were a sports win this thing
two weeks later when the trial's over
what happens to NASCAR?
What happens to the series
and what do the teams all get out of it?
Well, it's a great question
because the jury would only grant damages,
monetary damages to 2311 and F1.
And it would be up to the judge to decide
does he get rid of the charter system?
Does he force NASCAR to sell the tracks?
Does he force NASCAR to take away exclusivity clauses
in the contracts they have with the teams and the tracks?
Does he get rid of the next jank car?
Because that could be looked at as price fixing, right?
In some ways, because NASCAR requires them
to buy all the parts from single source suppliers.
So what would he do?
We don't know.
And that's been the biggest question
would he award permanent charters
which is what the teams want?
He can do any of those things, all those things
only a little bit of those things.
And I think the common theory is that
if the teams win, there would be a settlement
with NASCAR at some point
either before the judge rules
or while everything is under appeal.
Is there the potential with all this chaos
that the start of next season gets delayed?
I don't think so.
NASCAR will start the season with the clash.
They will have the Daytona 500.
I think the only question is
how do you qualify for those events?
Especially the Daytona 500.
Do you have 36 locked in teams?
Do you have 30 locked in teams?
Do you have any locked in teams?
I think that's all a little bit in question
until after you get through the lawsuit.
2311 and front row motorsports
the only two signatories to the lawsuit.
The other teams all signed the charter
including Richard Childress and Richard Childress Racing.
Although they've all been kind of quiet about it.
And he's actually, I remember last year
I think he told you.
He said he felt that he had to sign.
He had no choice.
He's got this big business, hundreds of employees
and it didn't sound like he was into it at all.
And I mean, is that kind of the feeling
you get across the board in NASCAR
or is he an outlier among the teams
that did sign the agreement?
I wouldn't call him an outlier.
I think there are other team owners
who feel similarly, I think there's a whole range
on the feelings of the team owners.
Some feel like, hey, we went through a drag out negotiation
and we didn't get what we wanted
but I've got to run a business
with a bunch of employees and I can live with this.
And then there were others who kind of more grudgingly
signed it, which I would put Richard Childress
in that category and it'd be like,
I can't risk not having a charter.
It's worth too much to me.
And so I've got to sign it.
And then you have obviously have the two teams
that never did sign it
and decided to take NASCAR to court.
So these text messages came out
and basically Steve Phelps was talking to other NASCAR
executives about the situation
while the media rights were being initially discussed,
while the charter was being initially discussed.
And he did have all of these very derogatory comments
about Childress.
Now NASCAR told you that Steve Phelps called Childress
and told him, I didn't really mean all that stuff.
And there is, we get angry, we send the tweets
but from a statement from Richard Childress Racing,
it sounds like they are not happy with the apology,
the disappointment, the defamatory statements
and that it shows how the series views the team owners
and that they're considering legal action
regarding that, not exactly sure what that would be.
But how do you think that part of this plays out
and how important that's going to be to the case itself?
Yeah, well, first off, the jury,
I don't believe we'll see this.
This was one of those exhibits that 2311 said,
hey, we may use and then NASCAR challenged it
by saying, you know, hey, this is just,
would just be used to embarrass Phelps
and even before the judge ruled 2311 in front row
said, okay, we won't use that one.
So, but because it was filed as part of the motion,
it came out in the public eye,
which might be was the goal in the first place
from the teams to kind of show the attitude of Steve Phelps.
So I think what it shows though,
is kind of the animosity that there was
and the friction that there was
during the charter negotiations
and during, you know, when NASCAR
was doing its meteorite negotiations,
you know, this came after an interview
where Richard Childress said
that he could build 14 of the old car
for what it cost him to buy seven of the new car.
And he said, when asked whether the new meteorite steel,
the potential of a new meteorite steel would be a positive,
he was like, well, for who?
Was his answer.
He said, I'll leave it at that.
And so I obviously read Steve Phelps the wrong way.
I'm not saying that it justifies what he said at all,
but it is one of those things.
They're mired deep in these negotiations.
They aren't going probably as well as they had hoped.
And it certainly, you know,
brought out to anger in Steve Phelps.
And you know, what type of case would Richard Childress have?
I don't know that he'd have a defamation case,
but the question would be,
is that NASCAR has made plenty of penalty rulings
against RCR in the two years since these comments.
And is there any way to say that those penalties
were retaliatory versus just, you know,
for competitive competition reasons?
The two big ones, Austin Dillon, Reg and Joey Logano,
Denny Hamlin at the end of Richmond last year,
loses his spot in the playoffs this year,
Austin Hill, Spin and Eric Almorella,
and getting penalized playoff points.
Alex, regardless of how this goes for the lawsuit,
the exposure of these messages,
what do you think that does for NASCAR with the fans?
Is this something that's going to see
there are people going to say,
ah, people say angry things and it's not a big deal?
Honestly, I think it's kind of disastrous all around.
Everybody's on social.
This stuff is tailor made for social
and the kinds of reactions that come there
on those platforms.
And I mean, you're on X, I'm on X, Bob's on X.
I mean, you see the reactions.
Fan reaction in general is not favorable,
especially to the children's stuff in particular.
But I mean, broadly, I think the fan reaction
has been negative, fair is fair.
There are fans that are coming out on NASCAR's side,
you know, of this stuff also.
But overall, it's just a terrible look for everybody.
I mean, next week, if anything, all of this stuff
makes the coverage and chatter around the trial uglier
even than it is now.
So I can see why the judge months ago came out and said,
you really don't want this to go to trial.
It's not gonna be good for anybody.
And I think that that's true.
This has gotten ugly fast and it has the potential,
I think to get worse.
I mean, Bob is like living this minute by minute.
So I'm sure he's got additional insights there,
but this is not a good look at all.
Bob, Denny Hamlin's been saying all along,
the truth will be told on December 1st
when the trial starts.
Is it all out there now?
Are there any more surprises between now and Monday?
I mean, I don't think there'll be any surprise
between now and Monday,
but during a 10 day trial,
you never know what's gonna be brought up.
But the exhibit list is about 1800 potential exhibits.
Now obviously you're not gonna put 1800 exhibits in trial.
There might be only 40 or 50 of them,
but there's a lot to pull from there.
I would imagine that there's still more stuff in there
that would make things look ugly.
The judge has warned both sides
that they shouldn't be as confident
as they maybe seem to be.
So I assume that was directed at both NASCAR
and Denny Hamlin when he said that a couple of months ago.
All right, well, Bob, I'm sure you'd rather be heading
to Charlotte Motor Speedway next week
instead of court in Charlotte,
but best of luck covering this story.
And maybe we'll catch up with you
after the verdict comes in, if there even is one.
All right, thank you guys.
Alex, I said this wasn't gonna be a Thanksgiving show,
but I did come across one funny thing this week
for whatever reason I was trying to find out.
If there were any cars or car companies
that shared a name with the breed of a turkey.
And what did you discover, Gary?
What I discovered was there is one that I could find.
There is a turkey called the Slate.
And of course now we have the new
super cheap electric pickup
that's gonna be made in America called the Slate.
It's a blank slate.
That's why they picked up the name,
not because it's a turkey,
but that company is gonna be a little more challenged now
with cracking the US market as it moves away
from the EV space and the federal tax credits go away.
And it's gonna not really be able
to sell a $20,000 electric pickup anymore.
Probably don't wanna know
that that was the hook on the name.
I am at a loss for words
that you were able to dig this one up.
So I got nothing to add to that.
How could I possibly add to any of this, Gary?
I would suggest automakers look at the list of turkey breeds
and don't name their company or their cars
after any of those in the future.
Alex, happy Thanksgiving to you.
I hope you enjoy listening to the show on your trip
wherever you're going for Thanksgiving
or if you're just sitting on the couch with your AirPods in.
I will be very local.
But the show works on the couch
just as well as it does in the car.
All right, well, if we can wake up next week,
we'll be back next week with another show.
Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast.
We'll see you soon.
The gas is a production of ACAR media
and American cars and Reasing.com.
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