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The following is a production of Dirty Moe Media.
Welcome to the business of motorsports. It is yours truly, Kelly Earnhardt Miller.
You know, one thing that I really hope that this series does is open up people's horizons.
I got in a lot of trouble and I got challenged. I don't know why you're coming here. You don't trust us.
I said, no, it's not. I don't trust you. I'm running a business.
A lot of people kind of feel like, well, we're never getting back to where we were. Why do we ever get to where we were?
There's so much more involved in decision.
I don't want to rip somebody's head off every day.
I'd say yes to it.
Oh, you'd say yes on the phone?
Well, you made me say.
Welcome back to business of motorsports. We had so much to talk about with Mike Davis, so there was no way we could fit that all into one episode.
So here's part two of that conversation.
In part one, we talked about how Mike got started in the sport of NASCAR, how the Dell Junior Download and Dirty Moe Media came to be,
and why he eventually decided to step aside from the Dell Junior Download and focus on building the company.
Now we're getting into where Dirty Moe goes from there.
We'll talk about how Mike decides show fits, the risks that come with growing beyond NASCAR, the bets that the company is making,
and what he wants Dirty Moe Media to be in the years to come.
This episode of Business of Motorsports is presented by Arby's.
Don't forget about Arby's new meat and three box.
Get more meal for your money at Arby's.
We have the meats.
Moving into kind of the shows and, you know, your lane has been building shows within our NASCAR industry and landscape,
you know, a lot of those shows.
And I don't know if there's any shows you want to talk about in particular because we only talked about Business of Motorsports,
but you, you know, how, what kind of risks were there?
How did you think about that process when you're introducing new shows as it relates to your relationship with NASCAR?
Obviously, they have podcasts that they do.
And we also, Dirty Moe Media relies on NASCAR in a lot of ways for content that you produce,
or if you're working on original, you know, television programming, different things like that,
you know, you've got to work alongside the sanctioning body for, for some of those things.
So talk about, you know, making those decisions, your shows, that background and that relationship with NASCAR and where your head is in kind of that space.
Well, let's, let's move the relationship with NASCAR all for a second.
That's its own whole conversation.
And I'm happy to talk about it.
But in terms of shows, every show, as I said, has a purpose.
Let's just start from the top.
Dell Junior Download.
What is the purpose?
Well, it is back to my old philosophy of access to the Dell Junior world.
What's going on in his mind?
What did he think about the race?
What did he, and by the way, when he has conversations,
I think there's a real, real truth going on that Dell Junior still learning about his dad and your dad.
I think there's been not every guest, but there's certainly guests throughout the year that he's still like feeding into those stories and hearing and listening to that.
The download was that it's just the Dell world.
And by the way, it's still our number one show.
Yeah.
Of course it is.
Action is detrimental.
I needed an advantage point from a driver.
Dell Junior, when he was no longer a driver, we lose that vantage point.
Denny Hamlin, one of the last, if not the last of the, I'm going to just say things, what's on my mind.
That may not be true anymore after watching Zane Smith and Carson Hosevar have their back and forth this past weekend in Atlanta.
People are coming out.
I think people are finding comfort in their opinions again.
But like Denny, you know, I'm real proud of what actions detrimental has become because again, we get access into a A-list driver that just wouldn't have.
And that was an ambitious jump for Dirty Mo Media because we really didn't know what it was like to work outside of the Dell Junior orbit, right?
You know, Denny's got his own sponsors, his own interests, his own stuff, and yet we were able to start actions detrimental.
Door bumper clear, vantage point from a different group, from the team side, from spotters, from team managers, and that's not always the same as the driver.
And it's certainly not always the same as Dell.
So now we've got this whole thing covered.
Okay. Well, then how can we expand it further?
Well, what about Dell Junior's life beyond the race?
Well, bless your heart.
Here it is.
And that's funny because we had been talking with Amy for years about doing a show and it just, we couldn't ever find the right thing.
So it was clear to us, looking at the data and everything, that there was a better way to use Amy and bless your heart emerged.
Tear down, vantage point from the media, the people covering it.
Also, debate.
Also, George Bianchi and Jeff Gluck doing an amazing job with that.
We've even done a spin-off with Gluckcast.
It's awesome.
Speed Street, Connor Daly, same vantage point, IndyCar, you know?
And by the way, Connor Daly's a grinder, man.
I mean, like nobody pours more into the creation of their podcast than Connor Daly.
He's amazing guy.
Herman Schrader, vantage point from the old guard, right?
And by the way, I just wanted to always work with Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader, right?
Now, just a note on that show, like that one, when we talk about running its course, that one is going to sunset at the end of this year.
Kenny Wallace has taken a step back.
Ken Schrader's taken a step back.
We always knew that, like, hey, look, let's just work together.
Let's do two years.
See if that feels right.
This will be their second year.
And then after this year, they're going to hang up Herman Schrader.
And by the way, we're all good with that.
Kenny says he's right-sizing his life.
He's right-sizing it.
And I think that that...
And you know what?
Where he's at in his life, he deserves it so much.
I want people to be able to do that in their life, right?
Have that type of control.
When you're ready to step away, you don't need to be tied to things.
And I think the world of him, and it's been awesome.
So Herman Schrader will go away after 2026 and we'll find something else to do.
And like, you know, do I do a Jimmy Spencer show?
Do I do it, you know, whatever it is, right?
Something to make him talk.
But so, like, all these different shows serve different purposes.
We're now getting into some lifestyle shows and getting a little bit outside the racing part where...
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Rare Breeds was a big, ambitious step for us.
I would still say that a lot of these ideas are in the experiment phase because I'm not...
I'm no fortune-teller here.
I don't know what audiences will respond to, especially our audience when we get outside.
But I think our goal was to find new audience, not just ask Dale Jr. fans to care about what Carson does when she's on a date or when she's...
Right.
Like, I think that's just a different audience, right?
And so Rare Breeds, we've had, you know, we...
I don't know how many episodes we've done, 20 or 30 of those.
Sons and Daughters is a new show.
I love Sons and Daughters.
This is a new show.
But we're experimenting on this.
But I had this premise several years ago of just a show about origin stories and about how, you know, normal, ordinary people become extraordinary.
And what those transitional points of life are.
Like, I can point back to, like, some significant things in my life that got me to where I am today.
You can look it back at things that happened.
Not all of them are good.
Some of them are bad.
Or maybe it's relationships that happened along the way.
And I always had this idea of telling or having conversations with people in a very vulnerable state where they can talk about their, you know, what decisions they make good and bad.
Shannon Spakes doing that right now with Sons and Daughters.
I love the show.
I hope people find it.
Yeah, I think it's great.
And I think, you know, to that point too, you have to have the right person to be able to go there and get there.
You know, I think that's one of the things that when we're talking about business and motor sports, it was just that honesty piece of it of, you know, where you can tell the good and the bad.
And I'm thinking of it as you talk about these shows, you know, and, you know, that's what I love about Denny is that he just tells it like it is, you know, and he's got the owner hat.
He's got his driver hat.
He's got so many different hats that he can throw in, but he's not scared to challenge all sides, you know, and where he sits in for that.
Because I think that's, that's a lot of the things when you are having these conversations is you have to be able to talk about the risks.
You have to be able to talk about the not so good that got you there and all those different kind of things on a podcast.
Because I think that's what's, that's part of the journey and what you're learning, you know, and why you're listening and what's compelling and all those things.
You talked about new shows.
And so this is a great time for us to talk about the rodeo world and this cowboy life and dirty my rodeo, which we, which you now have and walking into that space.
So you've got a new podcast with Jerome and Tiffany Davis.
Jerome is a very well-known, very well-known North Carolinian in the rodeo world and has persevered through an injury very early on in his career where he was, you know, just the top of his game and really going to.
If you, if you recall in the rodeo world, the days of time Murray and tough Hiedemann and those names that was where Jerome Davis was headed.
And, and so you, you started this podcast.
Let's dive in to kind of where that came from and how that idea came, came forward because rodeo, right?
A lot of similarities to racing though, actually, when we think about it, when you get down and start unpacking values.
You have to go back because on a surface level, you're like, I don't see the similarities, you know, you're riding bulls and driving race cars.
What's what's the similar?
No, but if you start unpacking and getting down into the values, you see a lot of patriotism.
You see a lot of faith, you know, racing and rodeo are still, I think the only events that are the only sporting events where they start off with prayer and they lean into it and family.
The connectivity between all of the people that are involved in that world.
Exactly. You see a lot of legacies. You see a lot of it.
I mean, and so, and there's something really pure about it that I honestly, myself didn't even realize until I actually started, you know, paying attention.
And there's a purity about it. There's a, you know, like the love of the land and the love of the automobile seem to kind of come from the same place.
It's kind of part of that American soul.
And when we started really kind of exposing ourselves to that world, it felt there was a natural, there's something natural about it.
Now, one of the natural things about it was that I'm talking to Austin Dillon last year and, you know, the children's team and Richard Children himself, they own a PBR team.
And so they were really just educating me.
And it's like, wait, so you're telling me this is how that's done.
And wow, all this stuff.
And they're like, you need to come to an event.
So we go to event Colby Bass and myself go to an event.
And at the time we were going to look at actual bull riders to be the podcasters.
And we even had some picked out.
It occurred to me that bull riders, again, another similarity is between bull riders and race car drivers, especially 19 and 20 year olds is they, their priorities aren't exactly in podcasting.
Right.
Communications.
Right.
Communications.
Oh, you know, our friend Andrew Gingola used to be, he used to be in NASCAR PR, but now he runs PBR communications, pro bull riders association communications.
And he said, I asked him in New York, I said, what, what is it like to try to go, you know, get media interest in pitch stories?
And he's like, you know, usually the biggest challenge is I'm trying.
I got a good story.
I got a cover of the New York Times or whatever, but I'm competing with a fence post because there's a fence post somewhere in Texas or Oklahoma that needs to be replaced.
And so that's what's keeping me from having this big space.
And I laughed and I'm like, that's so true because, you know, priorities are this, these bull riders are chasing buckles.
Probably some girls that, you know, you know, here and there, but like, that's what they're after.
I did not think we'd get much off the ground if we were relying on the bull riders themselves to be our first podcast for Dirty Mo Rodeo.
But in the corner of my eye, I see this guy and his wife and that's Jerome and Tiffany Davis and I didn't know them.
And they seem to have an influence and an aura about them in this space that I'm like, they matter.
They matter.
You're just watching.
You're at the event.
Just observing.
This comes out.
I knew of them because of Austin.
Yeah.
But I just, you know, Jerome is the coach of the Carolina Cowboys, which Children's Owns and Austin's the general manager.
But I needed to see them in my, because again, they weren't on my radar in terms of doing a podcast.
But I'm like, I remember being in a coffee shop the next morning with Colby and I said, you know, I feel like those are, that's who we need to be looking at.
They're adults.
They're grown people with grown priorities and we need to learn, meet them.
I did not know that they lived an hour from where we sit right now.
I did not know that.
Sure, they're with the Carolina Cowboys, but most of the bull riders in Carolina for the Carolina Cowboys do not live in Carolina.
So I didn't, I did not know this.
Within a week, we are sitting at Jerome and Tiffany's table in Archdale, North Carolina at the Davis Rodeo Ranch and we're introducing ourselves, myself, Colby and Tiff Powers.
And we just, their world was just like, we just like, I love this, right?
We were still not thinking about them as podcasters, but we were just learning about it.
And I just was enamored by the whole thing.
It didn't take long for us to go, they're the show.
I'm telling you, they're stock contractors.
They raise bucking bulls.
They're also the coach, obviously, of the Carolina Cowboys and Tiffany has every title.
And he also happens to be a Hall of Famer.
He also was like the top of his game when he got injured.
And by the way, the story, the Jerome Davis story, it became clear to us immediately.
It's like, wait a second, before we start doing a podcast with them, we need to introduce our audience to who they are because that story, I was captivated by it.
The man was at the top of his game and they were just, they were engaged and he suffers his injury from that wreck.
And then suing months, tested everyone's resolve, including their own.
Tiffany had every chance to walk.
They didn't have to get married.
Jerome even tried to run her off because this is not a road you want to go down.
And she stuck.
And now you go, you wonder, like, why does Tiffany does this?
Like, why would God do this?
Well, to me, it's clear.
You didn't know it at the time, but you think about their story, their testimony, it's still being played out right now.
I love their story.
I said to them, I said, hey, I'm going to, I would like to do a podcast with you guys.
I think you're the show being who they are.
They're like, we're going to have to pray about this and they did.
And turns out we were able to make it happen.
And you know this because we had several variations of this bull riding show before we actually ended on this cowboy life and with Jerome and Tiffany.
So we just started this show and I love it.
We've had such a good response from the rodeo community.
One of my biggest concerns was do we have the credibility?
Well, that's Jerome brings the credibility.
Tiffany brings the credibility, but it's like, you know, how will that community respond to it?
Turns out they've responded big time, big time.
And I think that there's real opportunity for us to add on shows into the Dirty Moe rodeo vertical.
And we'll see.
Is it an experiment?
Yeah, still.
Because again, what does a Dale Jr.
Media Company look like in rodeo?
None of us know, but I like a lot of the similar values.
And at the end of the day, we just go chase real authentic people.
That's what for Dirty Moe media, you got to be true to yourself.
That's kind of what we pride ourselves on.
I don't think you can find more authentic people than them.
And I hope I hope our audience, I hope the audience finds that show to be as gratifying and as informational and all that is.
I think it is.
It's just getting off the ground.
Your first episode was last week or we started off with a three part documentary and that came out a few weeks ago.
It's on YouTube.
The first podcast.
But yeah, the first podcast, which is available everywhere.
It just started last week.
Yeah.
In fact, what is today?
Today's Monday.
Wednesday, we'll go back out to the ranch and take the second episode.
So you're doing it at their place.
Doing it at their place, built a set right there in their downstairs.
What are you learning about bucking bulls?
I want one.
I knew you did.
I want to own one.
That's what I learned about it.
You know, I got a funny story.
Is there as much money and bucking bulls as there are in racehorses?
Probably not.
No, no, but that makes it more my speed, right?
Yeah.
Racehorses are another level.
Out of your league.
But you know, I don't know, we've been taking it back by, I don't profess to be any type
of expert in that rodeo space or whatever, but we have a good time.
You know what else?
And I want to, you should really think about this.
Jerome was an founding investor of the PBR.
When they sold, Jerome made some money.
What does a cowboy do with money he just happened upon?
He builds himself a huge arena right in his front yard.
So they basically, they have a full on grandstands, press box, this whole thing right there in
their front yard and they hold rodeo events every other Wednesday.
They call it Wild West Wednesday.
And so in the summer, Wild West Wednesday happens.
It's happening again this coming Wednesday and people can show up and watch a legit
rodeo and Jerome's up there on the microphone and Tiffany's down there in the microphone.
And our families have just loved going to them.
Tiff Power's kid, he was doing a button busting thing just a few weeks ago.
And so it's just fun.
It's family fun.
Yeah.
And they're just awesome people.
Yeah.
I know a little bit about the rodeo world when I was younger.
And then of course, you know, Taylor's participated, Kayla Earnhardt, Carrie's daughter, you know,
and also it is, it's a, a great world.
I mean, it's a, there are a lot of similarities.
Like you said, after you unpack kind of the foundation of, you know, what they, who the
people are and what their values are and all of those things.
Why rodeo?
Why go outside of motor sports?
What's in it for Dirty Mo Media?
Well, look, I mean, the space is crowded.
We can acknowledge that you mentioned NASCAR and we can talk about NASCAR, but like, yeah,
you know, look, there's, there's new podcasts starting every day.
I think that for us to be able to see out the vision for Dirty Mo Media, we were never going
to just be racing in my opinion.
We never were.
Dale, I'm not asking Dale to put on chaps and boots, but others can.
And I'm not, you know, we're also going to get into football.
We're talking right now and finalizing a deal with the new football podcast.
And so getting into Dirty Mo football and Dirty, you know, Dirty Mo lifestyle stuff.
These are all new verticals that I think that we can, we can plan.
Dale Jr. transcends NASCAR always has.
I think that if we do it smartly and look and stay true to who are, what our core values are,
which is passion, authenticity, agenda-less, we're not going to get into politics.
You can probably, I can say right now with a hundred percent certainty, we're never going
to start politics shows.
That's not who we are.
But there are things that we are getting into that do make sense for us.
By the way, I say, when I say get into them, I'm not asking our race fans or our Dale
Jr. download fans to all of a sudden be hit with a bunch of rodeo stuff or football stuff.
We start new verticals, new social channels that if that's into your thing, if that's you,
you'll find it.
If not, you're not going to be hit upside the head with it.
And that's kind of like, so nothing really changes in terms of our long-term fans.
We're trying to just go look and find new audiences.
Yeah.
I mean, you've mentioned this already, I think, but maybe you can expand just a tick.
But because I know these things have been on your strategy list, you know, different
verticals, different sports, different areas.
You explained this from the rodeo perspective, but like, what, what makes it right?
You know, when, when do you know?
What do you know?
What makes it right?
Well, this is podcast.
Yeah.
That's what I was saying.
What's all the things that's talked about authenticity, which is important.
But yeah, talk about, you know, how you know a situation is the right situation as it comes
together or the right experiment.
Because like you said, you don't always know how they're going to pan out.
Listen, I don't mind.
I'm humble enough to know when I've missed on stuff.
I've missed on some.
I've started shows that did tell us about a miss.
Well, I mean, and why it missed.
What do you think?
Well, timing sometimes matters.
Commitment is a big one.
And sometimes we just, you know, we, you know, people are in different seasons of life that
you, you thought you were, uh, you better aligned on those things.
Um, that can be one.
Um, sometimes again, like I use it.
I mentioned that we're still not sure if rare breeds and sons and daughters are going to
be successful.
I don't know until I've tried.
I don't mind swinging and missing.
I just, I'm going to swing at it.
Um, ultimately if it's successful, audience finds it and they react to it and they respond
to it and they come back and it takes time.
That's what's how long, how long does it take for me?
I need, I need two years.
I need two years because again, for like, I can't just start something and expect all of a sudden
people to drop.
I think that the statistics show that, um, a person will have about three to five podcasts,
podcast listeners.
They'll have three to five that they, that they will find, find, uh, you know, during
their week.
Doesn't mean they're hitting them all the time.
Sometimes they do.
Sometimes they don't, but they look, you know, if you were to pull, pull people to say, if
you're a podcaster week, yeah, there's usually three to five.
Well, when I start a new one, I'm asking someone to drop one and go back in.
And it's so funny.
Like I don't, I don't listen to a lot of what social media has to tell me, uh, as much
as I used to, but like when I, when I did, I'll see people like, you know, you'll start
something like, I ain't listening to that.
I'm not listening to that.
Well, I'm not trying to ask you to listen to it.
I'm, I'm trying to go create something that somebody will be important enough to them
and they can decide if that's one of their three to five.
And if it's not great, again, yeah, people are like, yeah, you've started so many shows.
I don't have time to listen to them all.
That's okay.
I'm not asking you to listen to them all.
I'm asking you to find something.
If my job is to find one thing that you will be served, that you will find to be a value
of your time to give that hour or hour and a half, whatever it is that you'll find value
in it, whether it be entertainment, information, whatever it is you're seeking.
So I don't need to hear, I don't like Denny Hamlin.
So I ain't listening to actions detrimental.
Somebody does and we got the numbers to back it up.
If we don't have the numbers to back it up, I promise you, I won't keep doing it.
That means that it didn't work.
And we've had shows that we tried and they didn't work.
And so, and we have also started shows that they always had an end date.
Like, you know, we, one of my favorite shows that we did was the Burton continuum.
That was an editorial show.
It wasn't a talk show.
It had a very clear beginning and a clear end.
It was like eight episodes.
There was never intention to go to nine, right?
And there's going to be shows like that.
So we, listen, I got a team that thinks ambitiously.
We take swings.
We have a vision.
I'm very strategic.
I operate off a strategy and I believe in the strategy.
And in that strategy, I have room for misses and failure.
I think you have to, right?
And then if you are okay with the misses, the ones that hit feel that much better.
And should make up for the ones that miss.
Yeah.
I can tell you this.
Before we even got to the first episode of this cowboy life with Jerome and Tiffany,
our YouTube channel on Dirty Mo Rodeo had already had a pretty good following.
More than we'd ever had at any other shows launch.
So like there's signs that say, yeah, this is going to work, right?
And by the way, I've already had advertiser interest on a show that just started.
That never happens.
Usually I have to have, you know, good 10, 20 episodes in so people know what they're listening to.
But you know, there's a lot of interest in this cowboy life already because you're hitting a different audience.
And that's what I think we're able to do.
Yeah.
Let's, let's talk briefly about NASCAR because we, I teed this up earlier and we got into a different conversation.
But you know, your relationship with NASCAR, are you competing against NASCAR?
What does your world look like this different than theirs?
And so on and so forth.
I know you've had an opportunity to work with NASCAR in a lot of different areas and things like that.
Yeah.
Listen, the relationship with NASCAR, if it was a Facebook profile, I would say it's complicated.
And I think I say,
Do not worry with what you can't control.
That's on my Facebook and that seems to apply too.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
So listen, you said it, we compete, but at the same time, when your competition, you need them to succeed for your own success.
Well, then that's where the complicated part comes in.
I need NASCAR to be as healthy and as prosperous as they can possibly be.
And I also think that they need the same thing from us because you know what?
We have an audience and we have Dale Jr.
Go back to the Dale Jr.
Download.
I mean, like Dale Jr.
Every single week is going to say his opinion and he ain't taking cues from anybody but himself, right?
We don't even know what he's going to say about a particular thing.
And that always doesn't align with what NASCAR wishes he would say.
But listen, Dale Jr. is an integral part of the NASCAR community.
I think he's the most valuable commodity even to this day.
He's a Hall of Famer.
He's a broadcaster.
He has a ton of influence even to this day.
His relevancy still is very high.
I think the Dale Jr.
Download, excuse me, the Dale Jr.
Download keeps that wick lit, right?
In terms of the relevancy and the brand.
So we need each other to be successful.
But I think our goals are different, right?
I'm radically honest.
My philosophy to content is come as you are, we own our flaws.
And also, I am very, I not only am not afraid of different opinions or diversity of thought, I embrace it.
That's pretty intimidating and scary for a lot of other companies.
I won't even just put that on NASCAR.
Like, you know, anybody, probably even junior motorsports to a degree.
Well, that's what I was going to say.
How do you, how, I mean, how, how do you support that if it affects your own company negatively?
Own company being junior motorsports.
I don't handle it quite well, to be honest with you.
And I know that to be the case.
Listen, I think a lot of people struggle with that.
That's a fair thing.
I think that's a fair thing from a business perspective to understand when you can lay it out on the table.
It's hard these days.
It used to be a lot easier to talk about your strengths and weaknesses.
It's hard these days because of, I feel because of social, because of everybody else's rhetoric.
That's what rhetoric, whatever the right word is.
And I hate that.
Yeah.
So listen, I've been trying for 10 years to figure out a way to work with NASCAR in a very productive, you know, collaborative way.
We almost got there this year.
We almost got there.
I really thought this was it.
I thought this was it.
I'm like, we're about to make history.
We're about to work with NASCAR on something.
And it's going to be a way that benefits us both, which again, we spent a lot of time working on that.
And yet, right at the last minute, gone.
And it's hard not to take that personal and it's hard to sit there and go, OK, well, maybe this just is a further indication that we're just not aligned in what our end goals are.
Dirty Mo is going to stay open for business if there's new ideas that we can pursue and NASCAR will try.
But at the end of the day, we've not been very successful in figuring out ways.
And I don't listen.
I think we're good partners and I have receipts.
We work with IndyCar.
We work with a bunch of other entities.
PBR and the PRCA have been awesome to work with.
And so I think that we all it just goes down to the fact that I'm never going to tell my host what to say or what their opinions got to be.
I want their authentic opinion.
I don't want to tell Denny Hamlin what he's got to say.
I don't want to tell Door Bumper Clear.
I'm not going to tell them what they're going to say about a race just because it's good for business.
And we have lost business.
It wasn't just this year.
We've lost business to stand on that principle, but it's one that I can sleep at night.
I'm not going to sacrifice our authenticity and our opinion.
A lot of people go, well, you're just trying to be clickbait on Door Bumper Clear.
I promise you, if I were being clickbait, then I would be telling them what to say to be better at getting clicks.
I've never once done that.
And I never will do that.
Freddie, Tommy, Carson, they'll say what they want to say.
And if there's things that are problematic, then we'll have conversations about that.
But at the end of the day, we are free thinkers and we have diversity of thought.
And sometimes that doesn't align with other people.
Yeah.
Going back to thinking about the things you've said, its timing, its commitment, its alignment, its authenticity and all those things.
And if they're not working, it's not working.
So there's definitely things on the NASCAR side that you just haven't clicked, you know, in terms of working together.
I won't stop trying.
I won't stop trying.
We're always open for business.
We're always coming up with ideas.
I'll give you one.
I think Dirty Mode would do a good job being at track doing live shows.
We've done live shows at tracks.
We do them in Daytona every year.
We do it through our partner series XM.
We do other things.
We've done them.
I think we do them well.
I've tried to talk about that with not just NASCAR but SMI and we're still working on that.
But I do think that Dirty Mode's presence at there.
We did a really successful ultimate experience program with the suites.
That was something else I'm real proud of.
The rice fans love that.
I think that our rapport with the audience and the fans means that we should always continue track
because I do think that there's something that NASCAR could gain hopefully by working with us.
I also know that NASCAR needs to also go find new audiences and new people as well
just to say why I'm doing that with Rodeo.
That still can exist.
But I don't know.
Maybe I'm not as easy to work with as I think I am.
I want to ask you and you'll be honest with me.
Is Dirty Mode, you also have to have a relationship with NASCAR.
You guys operate.
You're the most successful team in the O'Reilly series.
Does Dirty Mode's existence ever complicate that?
I have not had a situation where it has complicated anything with junior sports to my knowledge.
I say to my knowledge because I don't know if I don't think they would say
we're looking at your race organization in a certain way from a tech capability or anything like that
that would suggest anything.
But no, I've never had an issue.
I think on the side of Dale, obviously I think there's been conversation sometimes about the way Dale
may talk about certain things on the download and what that looks like.
And look, I do have a saying of let's don't pee in our own pool.
That's just kind of something that comes to mind whenever I'm thinking about how we all make something better.
And the Cars Tour has kind of taught me this in thinking of running the sanction and you're dealing with the tracks
and you're dealing with the drivers and you're dealing with the teams
and you're dealing with all the different individuals that make up what you're trying to make great.
And there's opinions that are said here or there.
Somebody doesn't like something and all that.
And I'm like, I just go back to thinking about how can we make this great together?
But that's your point with NASCAR.
There should be opportunities to work together to elevate the whole ecosystem,
not just dirty mode, not just NASCAR.
And so, yeah, I don't know of any particular instance.
And I think they've been, I know we want to have some guests.
We've had some guests.
We want to have some more guests like on the business and motor sports part.
But that's kind of where I go to also on back to talking about business and motor sports is like, who can talk honestly?
Who's going to talk honestly?
Honestly is the good and the bad.
I just don't want to sit here and talk to people for a nice commercial.
Right.
Right.
I want to dig into that's what business and motor sports is.
Business and motor sports is digging into what doesn't work, what risks are there, talking about your failure,
talking about the good things, talking about wins and how you got through all of that.
That's what our audience appreciates.
I agree.
And so when I think about guests that cannot deliver that.
Now, I don't want the whole show to be negative, you know, but, you know, our sport, it's hard to talk about our sport at times
because there is issues with the business model and the plan and how we take it to the racetrack and how we do all of that.
And so, you know, sometimes I get lost in my own thoughts about, you know, those challenges and how they're perceived by our fans
and people who listen, you know, me and Heather, we're sitting there talking about our challenges when it comes to our margins and things like that.
And, you know, we're thinking of it from a real conversation.
I know that anybody gets in business to sell widgets.
They want to make money selling widgets.
Who doesn't want to make money selling widgets?
I want to make money running a race team.
I want to make money doing whatever you want to make money having a podcast.
And so if you're only making 2% on this widget, you know, what can you be doing different?
What's wrong with the business model?
What's wrong with the plan?
So, you know, just going back to kind of that honesty, but no, I've not had anything direct.
My last run in with NASCAR was like 2007 over Adidas and I'll never forget that run in.
Oh, that's right.
We left that out of our 2007.
I think you were in that conversation.
We left that out.
Oh, gosh, yeah.
Which I didn't know I was causing a problem until later.
But yeah, when, yeah, so just for the audience, we were, we were working on a deal with Adidas and a lot of Adidas and a lot of people will,
will remember that for, for Del Jr and our company, not knowing that, that the sport was working on something with a competitor that would encompass all of the drivers and whatnot.
And we were kind of going on our own to do something.
And I didn't read between the facial expressions or something from a meeting and got called out about it later.
But again, that's just, you know, it's about if, if you're clear on what you're doing, how you're going to involve your constituents in what you're doing.
I think that's super important, that communication.
Where do we all fit into the picture?
Then something like that doesn't happen.
But yeah, that was my last.
Yeah.
My last hand slap.
Didn't it kill that deal too?
It killed their deal.
It killed their deal.
It killed their deal.
I don't know what was in it for us.
I really don't, but it killed their deal.
Yeah.
Well, listen, you know, when you talk about the business of motorsports, you mentioned the business model.
I can promise you, I have never envied you or anybody that has to operate on the racing business model.
It is so hard.
Yeah.
It is so hard.
And junior motorsports does an amazing job given how difficult this business model is.
And by the way, I probably don't even know if I probably don't know a tenth of how difficult that actually is.
You're probably thinking in your head, oh yeah, like you actually know anything about this.
I know that the business model.
You've been in enough meetings and conversations to know it's difficult.
I also know that running a media company is hard.
There's a graveyard full of race teams and media companies around us all over the place.
And there's new ones all the time.
So we didn't pick, maybe that says more about us.
We didn't pick the easiest thing, but at the end of the day, you follow your passions.
The thing I always love about your conversations on business and motorsports is that given how difficult the business is, the business model is when you get with other racing executives, almost just kind of comparing battle wounds.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, the Heather Gibbs was such an amazing conversation, but you had a lot of amazing conversations and it's like, I know that they can start to feel repetitive or you might be asking a lot of the same questions.
But at the end of the day, I do think that everyone has a little bit of a different story.
The challenge is, will they actually come out with it?
Yeah, tell their story.
And most of them, to be honest, and this is, I shouldn't say this to you, most of them probably don't.
Yeah.
Right?
That just...
It goes back to that vulnerability that you talked about.
Right.
You know, it is easier to, in this atmosphere, to get people to talk about things that maybe they wouldn't.
I mean, Dale Jr. does a great job of it on the download.
I can remember that from Fastlane Family and I'm pointing over there to where I used to sit on the couch and do that.
You know, you get comfortable and with people that you know and know of and so on and so forth.
And you're talking about intimate things, you know, especially when you think about Dale and talking and learning about my dad and our dad and all those things that he really enjoys.
You know, you can lose sight of fact that thousands of people are going to listen to this, you know.
Right.
But that's good.
That's good stuff.
That's when the real honest and the real heart comes out and talking and that makes, it ends up being great, you know.
Am I doing a good job of encouraging you to keep going on?
You're doing a good job.
Let's talk about Dirty Bo Media and its future.
Five years from now, what's the percentage of racing or other?
And what does Dirty Mo look like?
Do you think?
Yeah.
What's your strategy?
Say it's going to look like.
Well, listen, a lot of people ask me about, you know, what are you trying to be?
Are you trying to be?
Are you a racing platform or are you trying?
Now you're getting into Dirty Mo Rodeo and football, F1, those different things.
Listen, I want Dirty Mo Media to be a diversified sports media platform that happens to do racing better than everybody else.
I kind of already think we do, to be honest with you, because we got Dale Jr. and we got Denny these people.
And I just don't think, I don't see anybody else replicating the cred, the street cred that we bring.
So I like the way we cover the sport of racing.
I think we, as I said earlier, we hit it from a bunch of different vantage points.
So it's not like any one of them is right or wrong.
Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi's vantage point is as important to me as anybody else's.
They just see the world differently.
Jeff Gluck had, I think it was last week, he had a, he has on his Gluck cast, which is the Thursday episode.
He'll have interviews and he had one with Tommy Joe Martin's last week.
And it's just like, I didn't know anything about Tommy Joe Martin, to be honest with you.
But man, I just thought the conversation was amazing.
And you know, I really do feel a sense of pride when I go, we produce that, we produce that.
And Jeff Gluck, because we had the, the way we thought to get Jeff Gluck on our platform, he went and got, he had the, the instincts to go get that.
And that was an amazing conversation that I learned a lot from.
So like, yeah, I think that we, I have a vision, strategy.
It's, I always want us to do racing better than everyone else.
I say this a lot.
We're still an Earnhardt company.
Earnhardts do one thing, they race.
That's not changing.
So if, if, if this is a Dale Earnhardt Junior company, I can promise you that racing is going to be something we do very well.
And it's going to be even a priority.
Doesn't mean that we're not going to try to do other things well.
But, you know, knowing who we are and who are, you know, again, being true to ourselves, I think that there's room for all of that.
You mentioned earlier about not having a business plan when we talked about, you know, dirty Mo media and kind of its roots.
And I'm asked that all the time, you know, what's the business, you know, did you and Dale set out to do this?
You know, what did you and Dale set out to do?
And, you know, I go back to thinking about our Hooters Pro Cup car and our late model car and how that turned into Xfinity,
because an opportunity came timing, you know, all of those things, an opportunity came, a Bush car at the time,
and then now being four cars in their Raleigh series.
And we've never had a business plan.
You know, we don't have a written business plan.
We do have a philosophy on how we operate.
We ban junior motorsports, me and Dale, etc.
You know, we have a philosophy on how we operate and what we want to do.
I don't think a business plan is always necessary.
You know, I think that you look at, you know, you're having conversations, you look at opportunities just like the opportunity with Rodeo.
You're having a conversation with Austin.
You learn about this other sport that's out there and then you figure, you're thinking that you're going to do something with it
and then you figure out the right thing to do with it, right?
So I think that's kind of how our business has been built.
But the philosophy kind of, I feel like always stays the same and the principles and, you know, who we are,
what kind of people we want to work here, the culture of the company and all that.
When you set out for Dirty Mo Media, is that philosophy, how's that philosophy changed?
I remember the day it changed.
How you set out?
I remember the day it changed.
You're right.
I didn't have a business plan for Dirty Mo Media.
What we had was a brand plan of Dale Jr. content, continuation of what we started early in the junior motorsports days,
and it just kind of grew on us.
I remember the day, I don't remember the date, but I do remember you and I talking and then me and Dale talking.
And it's like, hey, I'm on the brand team.
Dirty Mo is a side project.
I don't have a business plan.
I think I might have had even one or two employees.
I don't even, it was probably one.
And it's like, I'm not doing a good job on the brand or on Dirty Mo Media because they're both,
there's a tension and trying to keep me in all these things.
I'm not doing either one of them, right?
What do we want?
Do we want to get serious about this or are we okay with it just being on the side?
Dale Jr. says, let's get serious.
And I'm like, do we want to get after it serious?
He's like, let's get after it.
I said, okay, well, if we're going to do that, I can't be on the brand anymore.
And you and I had already talked about this, but it's like, again, us going to Dale about it.
I can't be on meetings about Whiskey River or, you know, books and these kind of things because my heart is actually,
I think I think we have opportunity here, but we don't have a plan and we certainly haven't figured out.
We've made it a business, but the business plan at that point was don't lose Dale money.
Don't lose Dale money.
Don't cost Dale money.
Don't cost.
Don't cost Dale money.
Don't make it where we have to ask Dale for money.
That's exactly right.
That was our plan.
It's the same plan on Jr. right?
Don't ask Dale or Mr. H for money.
Right.
If you can make the money, but that was not envisioned at that point.
It was just don't cost Dale money.
So if we're going to get serious about it, well, then let's figure out a way to make the money, right?
Or let's wait to do it.
One of that meant I need to come off of the brand team and I need to start hiring people in a team around me.
So I think this was around 2018, 2019.
I know that a hard tip powers in 2022.
So it was this, you know, manifestation of building up a team around us to really kind of get after it.
A key part of the business strategy was getting with then silver tribe.
Now they're called initial digital.
Michael Klein and Jack Rose were really helpful for me enter into building this into a back actual strategy.
And they continue to this day to be an asset to me.
And I left a meeting with them, both of those guys before I came here today.
So in there, listen, the thing I loved about them is that they never try to change us.
You think of Los Angeles agencies and stuff like that.
They're not trying to make us LA-ified and we're not trying to be.
We know who we are, but they were able to help author a strategy for us to make this into a viable business.
And it was when we started turning this into a viable business that I started becoming really protective of the business itself, the identity of who we are.
And it's still a work in progress, frankly.
But, you know, like that's that's one of my things.
It's one of my pet peeves is like, you know, when we aren't treated as a business that we are, I understand why because we didn't start out that way.
But we have evolved into that.
And so that's kind of like what we are.
So our business strategy now is starting shows, bringing on clients, being the best at what we can do to serve brands and the branded content business.
We had a really successful San Diego where we activated for Arby's and the U.S. Navy.
We did two live shows out there.
That's when it's working well because the business responds well to that.
Well, you talked about your pet peeve.
You got another pet peeve in there.
Oh, I got a lot of pet peeves.
Give me another one.
Well, OK, one of my one of one of my pet peeves is I I don't really like hearing people's criticisms when I would never talk to them about advice.
Like when I never would seek people's advice, I certainly don't care about their opinions or critique.
I've never been there was a time I wasn't that good at that.
And I would let that fester way more than I needed to.
But at the end of the day, listen, I'm about to turn 50 this year.
So in my old days here as I turn 50, I've started to prioritize my time and the things that I would waste my time on.
I don't do that as much anymore.
I let it go.
Or again, I can count on one hand how many people I really care about their advice.
You're one of them.
So it's like, if you come back to me and you say something to me, I'm going to listen to it.
But if there's people that I would never take their advice for, I'm not going to let it in my day.
And my pet peeve is the people that do let those things.
They get caught up.
Also a pet peeve of mine.
And you'll know this because this is one of our fun little things with Dale Jr.
I'm very strategic.
If we operate off of a strategy or get away from a strategy, I don't know what to do with that.
And so like when, you know, like Dale sort of is more instinctual.
When you had to film the basketball league.
What's that?
When you had to film the basketball league way back in the day.
Basketball league.
Well, listen.
Get off strategy.
Well, yeah, that was off strategy.
Also, I lost an ACL on that one too that we needed to get back.
But you know, Dale is very instinctual.
Today's baseball cards is tomorrow's brisket and then tomorrow's brisket is, you know what, it's whatever.
And by the way, that's authentically him.
So I'll never ask him to be anything different.
I also don't like it when I get asked to be different.
And that is, I need, look, I operate off a strategy here.
It's a business strategy.
It's a vision.
It's, it's, uh, it allows room for some maneuvering and some, some fun time and stuff like that.
But at the end of the day, I do got to make sense of it.
And that's a pet peeve of mine.
When we go, Hey, Reddit says this, Reddit says this isn't working.
The data, the data says it is, I'll sit there with the data and then let Reddit, you know, critique it in their own space.
Exactly.
And that's not me trying to call out Reddit.
I'm about to get roasted from Reddit now for that.
No, but that's important.
The data, I say that all the time to people, the data is what you need to lean in on.
Like, you know, it's not emotions.
It's not what you think people are going to do.
What's working.
Even if you're not doing it.
So therefore you can't define what's working there.
You can look at other things to decipher if it could work or what the roadblocks are going to be or what's going to trip you up or things like that.
There are things that you get to look at, but yeah, I'm the same way.
I don't like always, um, how many people said that or, you know, whatever the situation is that we're working on.
It often reminds me of dealing with people.
And if you hear a complaint, is it one complaint or is it 10 complaints?
You know, if it's one complaint out of my employees, um, you know, maybe I need to look into it a little bit, but it's probably not that significant.
If there's 10 complaints about the same thing, maybe I need to take it more seriously, you know?
Yeah.
So, yeah.
But how do you, again, I wonder from you, you have, you run an entire operation.
So like when you, how do you decide between what you go spend the next hour of your time when it comes to complaints on?
Maybe you have multiple complaints.
How do you decide, all right, I'm going to stop what I'm doing and I'm going to go fix this, put out this fire.
I think just priority on, you know, thinking about that from, from, you know, business stuff going on every day.
Obviously, I get lots of emails about we're working with this and here's the request that we need to get approved by you or whatever.
Or if I've got a fire going on between people or, uh, something that's brewing.
I mean, I just, just prioritized by which one can affect me the quickest that I need to get in front of it.
Yeah.
Seriously.
Yeah.
I mean, what's going to, what's going to turn sour the quickest?
What's going to be an issue the quickest?
Or, or what's going to be, um, helpful, you know, what's going to be the best if I give this answer on a partnership?
Does that get us that much closer to the finish line, you know, um, or whatever that looks like, but sometimes you just have to wait.
I mean, I have to, you know, we, a lot of things that we do go through Dale and, you know, he's busy on the weekends broadcasting.
He doesn't, we, what we know about Dale is we need a clear mind.
Where he can focus on something or we need it to be coming from him to us, right?
That, and then you get into this conversation about wherever he's at, or if he calls you and says, Hey, what do you think about X, Y, Z?
Then you've got the platform to talk about that and maybe something else, you know?
Um, because that's important that we, you know, Dale's involved in so many of our things, but it's important for us to find that opportunity where we can get a clear
moment of his time because he's in a lot of different directions, right?
So yeah, I'm, I'm prioritizing what's going to benefit me the most if it's putting out a fire or if it's benefiting me to, to something good.
So those are decisions that you make every day.
Um, we talked a lot about your hiring process.
Um, you've grown your team.
I think you're 17 strong.
Where are you 16, 17 strong somewhere in that neighborhood?
Um, you had to move out of our building, um, for, because you're growing so much, we're growing, you're growing.
Um, you've got a great space right here up the road on our, if we want to call it our campus, so to speak.
Oh, that's right.
We're officially a campus now.
We're a campus now.
I know.
I didn't realize that.
We're a campus.
We're a campus.
Take that Mr. H.
I know, right?
We've got our own campus now.
Um, but you know, you, one of the things that I've seen about you and your people are how people grow within your organization and you give them opportunity to grow.
Um, you have people, you know, that have started on your team.
I can think of a couple, you know, Travis Rockhold, Alex, think of a few that have, have grown into new roles and new positions.
Um, you know, how, how do you bet on people like that?
And what are you providing that given them the opportunities and what do you see in that's working from your perspective as a leader?
All right.
Let me think about this one.
That's a good question.
All right.
Um, well, I go back.
Okay.
So not everybody's story is the same, but I think we can find some commonality in here.
Um, first of all, the, the, the people that are like, let's, let's, let's start with some of the, you mentioned Travis Rockhold.
Um, he came to us a few years ago.
Um, but like, we've got people that have been in the organization for more than 10 years, right?
James Brosan, who's integral part, uh, stuff like that.
He was at Hammerhead before it came here.
So like we got employees that came from Hammerhead, right?
Um, at the end of the day, the people that are able to thrive at dirty mo media are ones that bet on themselves, understand their, understand their role, work as a team.
Because again, our, we, we do run it lean.
You mentioned 16, 17 people, but like, um, we operate bigger than that.
And I know that the people that we compete against, and I say compete in air quotes, but like the people that, you know, have other things.
Let's just take Fox for example.
Okay.
I bet you Fox has a lot more resources than we have.
And I bet happy Harvick's podcast has a lot more resources than we have.
By the way, that's fine.
That's who they are.
Um, we run it differently.
We're, we're leaner and we, uh, we have people that know how to fill gaps in lines better than the rest.
I think that there's an efficiency about that.
I think that also there's leadership and I'm not even talking about myself.
I'm talking about, you know, the executives that we have in our team and the department heads.
You mentioned Alex and Travis.
Um, people know Travis Rockhold as being the producer of Denny show and, and, and the Dell junior download.
But what Travis is, is the most versatile, well-rounded producer that we could possibly have in that.
Think about Denny just last night.
He didn't get home till 4 30 a.m.
Well, their plan was to, the plan was to tape actions detrimental today at 10 a.m.
Turns out they're not doing it till 5 p.m.
I would not be able to keep that schedule.
I got a family and I've got to pick up this and pick up that and do this and do that.
Travis just Johnny on the spot and is able to do that.
He's also able to go to sons and daughters and do stuff for Shannon spake and that kind of stuff that that that's a team mentality.
That if you don't have it, it isn't going to work at dirty Mo media.
So I think there's a commonality between that.
I think that when I brought Tiff powers on in 2022, this was the second time she'd worked for us.
That was a big step.
I needed somebody that I knew that could hold an iron fist, but also have compassion and empathy.
She would say she doesn't have empathy, but like, but understand and, you know, how to make decisions in different areas.
She works well.
Colby Bass is amazing energy and ideas and she's able to work with the producers very well.
Everybody knows their role.
Not everybody has and they don't really last very long at dirty Mo because again, you know, that's like, you know, if it becomes sort of about yourself and about that.
We want to take care of people, but we also have to understand why we show up to work every day and the people look the hours are not going to be normal.
There never are not in our business.
We operate off deadlines and they're daily deadlines in the grind.
And by the way, we also have a high standard of quality and we go through these things.
And so that also adds time to it.
And so we try to be quick and nimble, but also good and quality and all these hard to do all this stuff on a set schedule.
And yet people still show up to work.
They show up like Mr. H says with their game face on.
They show up on time and that's what we ask of them in return.
I try to give them leniency and latitude where they need it.
I do believe in a work life balance that we got families that we want to be there for.
I got my own.
And so it's a balance.
It's a daily intention intentionality to commit to that type of thing.
But at the same time, I think that's what I see to work well for us.
I don't know if it changes.
It doesn't work that way for everybody else.
But for us, you know, up in our build new building on campus here, that's what works for us on the Northwest Quadrant.
I don't know where you are.
Oh yeah, we should come up with some directional type stuff there to make it seem important.
Well, you know, I was thinking leading off of that question.
I mean, you know, the the the old saying it does start at the top and I believe in that.
I mean, I believe that that you you provide that work environment, that opportunity, you know, they're they're taking the lead.
From what you put out, you know, and and taking the lead from from from what you're giving them.
So and it's it works well.
It works really well.
You got some great, great, great people.
When you look around Dirty Mo Media, what makes you most proud?
Besides your new building.
The new building is up there.
Yeah, for sure.
I love the new building.
I love the new building.
I do.
I love it.
And by the way, that's another whole conversation.
I'm not I'm going to answer your question, but I will say that like it's also taught us that when you're not in part of the.
You know, the the what do you call it the center part of like, you know, not being in your orbit every day.
Like you do lose some of that stuff.
And so, you know, it's it's required us to be you have to be more intentional.
Absolutely.
For me.
Absolutely.
For me.
So.
Listen, I am proud when of the shows that we've created and what I think that they're doing from a historical standpoint and also from a personal standpoint.
I see.
I see real.
I see Dale Jr. in a different place than he was when we started the download.
I mean, this was the guy that was the introvert.
He could never have held a held a long form conversation.
He wouldn't have wanted to.
Yeah.
You know, I was with him.
You've been with him when he tried to get him back in the day.
I mean, like that you would never bet that he was going to be a podcast host, but here he is and he thrives in it.
He's so good at it.
I think it's a real value to the industry.
I take pride in that.
I take pride and bless your heart.
I take pride in the fact that Amy's come out of her shell and that they get to have they open us up to their lives.
It's I don't take it for granted.
I'm proud that we've been able to develop that thing.
When we did Lost Speedways, that was that was a.
That happened to be right at the time when the COVID situation took root in.
Yeah, you guys are operating under COVID.
We were not just operating under COVID, but we were under contract to provide Peacock to, you know, a batch of shows.
And we were one of only four out of all the the shows that they were going to launch Peacock with.
That's right.
One of only four that actually came through with our commitment on time.
That's right.
And the way we did it, we had to get real creative by like our.
Our track was the last track.
The last episode we were going to do is in San Francisco, the same place that they couldn't even park the big cruise ship because because of a COVID outbreak and nobody knew what the heck was going on and all this stuff.
So we, our plans got canceled and we got together our little team and just said, how do we go make our commitment true to Peacock and still do it?
And so we got creative and we still, and I'm proud of that.
I'm proud that, you know, we've been able to build this into a business and we're able to serve partners in a way.
I hope we add value to the other parts of the Dell junior orbit, like the brand team and the race team.
I think that we've certainly given people additional things to consider on how to activate within our company.
All that to be said, it's hard for me to sit there and pinpoint like things because I feel like we're still so early in our story.
You're still growing.
And I don't want to be like, I don't really want to check up and go, oh, let's start taking, let's start counting our wins.
I don't, I'm not really in the wind counting mindset right now.
I'm like, you know, we got new shows to make, we got new verticals to start.
I really want to see this, the F1 show start.
I want to see a football vertical started and I want to continue evolving.
And one day we'll come back and look and see all the things that made me proud.
But I do think that it'll exceed some of the things that we can see right now.
Again, in hindsight, it's a lot easier to look at.
I hope that we have a big flourishing partnership with NASCAR one day to talk about how that worked because so far I've not really, I'm not succeeding in that one.
And so I don't know.
That's my answer to that, I think.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Well, Mike, it's been a great conversation.
You know, we, we've talked a lot about where, where you began, where you're going, what you're doing, how you've grown.
You've grown and Dirty Mo Media has changed.
You've stayed true to what you built Dirty Mo Media on, which is fantastic.
You got a lot of runway ahead of you, lots of ideas, a lot of great people.
I hope people have enjoyed hearing about the business and its growth.
I hope they've enjoyed and I hope they have a better understanding now of maybe why you left this table originally and you're not let you want to one last kick your feet up on the table.
Yeah.
And lay back from the down, down low days.
Come on, do it with me.
You know, they told me, they said, don't be leaning back in your chair, but I'm like, I don't know any other way.
Yeah, don't leave me alone here.
These Mike arms move with me so I can get comfortable.
Oh yeah, I forgot I got to move this part.
My shoes are in the way.
This is how we do that, right?
This is, this is it.
One last good hurrah.
Because I'm going back into my shell like this.
I said, I'm going to come talk to Kelly and we'll talk about this company and this is the way we'll do it.
And then I'm going to go right back behind the cameras where I belong.
It's going back behind the curtain.
All right, Mike, it's been super fun.
I appreciate you sitting down to tell the story.
We've definitely taken up a lot of your time in my time and I hope everyone enjoys it.
And as enjoyed this episode of business and motor sports.
This episode of business and motor sports is presented by Arby's.
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