Mid-Ohio is a famous race track in Ohio where IndyCar races happen. It’s a twisty road course, so the cars have to be set up well and driven precisely.
“Driver changes” just means the team is changing who will drive the cars next season. That matters because drivers help shape how the car is set up and how it’s raced.
Zach Brown is a leader/executive in motorsport connected to McLaren. The hosts are saying he helped drive the decision-making behind the IndyCar changes.
McLaren is a major motorsport brand known for racing across multiple disciplines, including IndyCar. In this context, the speaker is talking about McLaren’s IndyCar program and how it wants to evolve its team culture and driver lineup.
A “street road course” is a race track made from regular city streets. Cars often need different setup and driving because the turns are tighter and the track is less forgiving.
“Barber” means Barber Motorsports Park, a road-racing track. The speaker is using it as an example of where the team’s strengths might differ from oval racing.
“Dampers” are the shock absorbers that help the car stay stable over bumps and while turning. Changing damper settings can make the car handle very differently.
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This is a heck of a Monday for you team celebrating one to finish your first ever at mid Ohio.
And on the back end of that less than 24 hours later confirmation of what we've many of us
have kind of known has been in the works. Huge confirmation of driver changes for next
year. Legitimately, I can't think of this kind of oh my gosh, we're spraying champagne
on Sunday. And then this kind of big news on a Monday. How'd you guys get to this decision?
This wasn't an overnight thing. But this is a big move that you and Zach Brown have orchestrated.
How'd you get here? Oh, I don't think we have enough time for me to go through it,
but I think we'll get through it. I think, Marsha, I got to go back three years ago thinking what does
this team needs, what McLaren wants to be an IndyCar. Then I go and put my fan hat on the
history of McLaren and racing, because if you're a fan of racing, you can denied some of it, you
know, three years ago. And it took me a little bit to understand the direction. And what did we have?
How we are going to make this team what everybody expects. We had a big name. We got labeled and
the expectations to go fight for very well successfully established teams like Penske
and Genasi. But we were not there yet, but people thought we were there. So a lot of hard decisions
I had to make in the past three years, a lot of culture changing, not that the people that are
here, they're not capable, they're not good, they're, they'd be successful here. Now they're
successful somewhere else. But I had to bring the culture in that I have that is similar to
what the company wants and then what Zach has. We're racers first. This is a race team,
made a lot of calls, changes, got a lot of people to come in with me on this journey.
They're extremely successful. And eventually I need to look and say, okay, Roger and Chip,
I've been around for 30 plus years. They have won everything. the race that I,
that changed my life, which is the Indie 500 multiple times. And in the past 20 years,
that is the only two teams apart from I went away, one of my drivers from Andrade at the time
that actually have broken that. Well, then the driver part of me is saying the car is good,
but it's not dominant yet. So, and sometimes you have to take that good damper out and gamble
with something that you don't know, but you think it's better. And you have to adjust that. And then
that's what using a metaphor, it's doing with some of the hard changes I had to make on an
engineering side, on a crew chief, on a team manager, and now obviously to the most recent
and sore point that a lot of people cannot understand is because the vision is not the
short term. The short term for Tony never worked. No disrespect to anybody I got put in a place that
it is my responsibility to take care of the people that I have here that spend 15 hours a day,
seven days a week, don't even have barely have a personal life. If I'm going to preach something,
I'm a man of my word. I have my morals. I have a way of working that
I had to make tough calls. And then for a lot of people, sometimes it's like, well,
that was working, but sometimes the obvious or the part that you go being comfortable and happy,
it's not good enough. Because if I go back to realities, is it winning two or three races a year?
Is that your definition of success? Or it's a defense, you're not thinking big, or
and if you think out throughout my career, what I had to endure in my personal life, I think
I have a tendency to just take big risks and big gamble. So I'm not being irresponsible, but I am
when I make a decision, decision right or wrong.
Plan A is always going to be plan A. That is no plan B. We make plan A work. We're what just will
and yes, since I took this role. This is probably was one of the most difficult decisions I had to
make for many reasons for the human side of Tony, for the results that this kid is having.
But I got to look for the best interest of this company and we cannot deny facts. And that doesn't
mean we're making one guy look better than the other. We're replacing people just because we
like drivers. We can get labels and opinions and in this modern world, everybody has an opinion
so quick that if you're not strong enough in the head, you didn't end up then you don't need to be
a leader. You just put it out on the internet and they were going to give you the answer.
So good or bad, like it or not. So looking forward, Marshall, is what do I need to do
to beat Genasi and Penske? And I think we're dialing in the street road courses. I mean,
if you look at Christian's average and now Pato stepping up, we were there. Well, and then I go
back because the Indy 500 was May. We're already in July. The Indy 500 is not going to be a factor
until April next year, right? And then we get to the Indy 500. And I have some deficit in my team
that the other ones don't have. They have three guys, four guys that are going head to head to a
fight that I don't have. And then I don't need to answer. I don't want to answer that question
as an excuse after the race that eventually Christian is getting there. Do I think Christian's
going to win in the Oval? 100%. A guy that has that type of talent that is no way
to defer and struggle a little bit in the Oval and then he started it. I go look at my stats
in 98 and 99. But those times, Marshall, we were in small teams that we had time to learn that.
Palu struggle. I don't have that time. The company doesn't have that time. And those are the things
that the Knights that kept me awake because also my driver's hat feeling responsible for like,
what can I do to try to help? And then I bring Hunter Ray in. So I would challenge anyone.
And then I understand that is a hard kneel for Christian to take. If there is a way that you
have to leave a job or not, I didn't renew his contract as much as he's dominating. And the
seats there available right now, I should be concerned that if he jumps in one of those two
seats, he might make look stupid, right? But that's the wrist I take it. And on the other side,
I ask, I woke up this morning and I said, you know what, I actually put my Scott Dixon watch,
just this vintage as hell. I said, if you love racing and you know the history of racing,
today's a big deal, Marshall. For me, like I would say, you know, I'm announcing Hunter Ray,
which is an Indie 500 champion. Scott Dixon is a legend of my generation. If you're AJ Ford was
the all time him more like you talk about the AJ Ford of this era. And then one of the biggest
talent that the president, the lady, the president of Mexico, sent part to a tweet,
congratulate him today. It's a big deal. You know, if I have to explain that to anybody,
then I think we have a problem. So let's talk about long term development and gains versus
short term. So this has an interesting thing to consider. The balance that you're looking to
find is oval threat, as you mentioned, and this has been a fact.
Pato always been the number one bullet to go after Indie, name the other ovals.
He's had some really good teammates over the years, whether it's yourself, Montoya, Felix,
Rossi, there's been some really strong oval drivers within the camp over the years
that changed with some team changes. Nolan coming in a rookie, no expectations for him to
contribute, right? Christian learning ovals as well, been a bit of a longer arc for him to
develop and he's still developing. But this from the outside, and this is where I think a lot of
fans are struggling, is okay. The hole in the oval game for Aaron McLaren, it's been obvious.
Folks get that. But boy, it looks like you're accepting at least a short term retreat on road
and street course capabilities. Pato can do that as well. But with Lundgard in there for the first
time, this team's become a really powerful one to threat. It seems like you're accepting building
in the one side that you're missing while myself as well. I don't expect you guys to be as scary
when we get to barber, Indie road course, etc. Next year with some of the driver changes.
Tell me about that because you got to be a realist as well about what to expect in 2027, 2028 as well.
Well, let's start talking about the short term. How can I win the 500 and win the championship?
I got to be good on the ovals. How can I do that when I'm fighting three Penske's,
three Andretti's, and technically three Ganases with technically one guy?
I don't like my odds there. And that's not a jab. That is a reality. Unfortunately,
that is a reality. Again, is he going to get there? Yes. Next year, I don't think so. It might
shut me up and win the thing. It is what it is. And I will be the first one to take a big jab at
myself as you're dumb. But at this moment, I don't see it. Pato can win anywhere. Felix has proven
he can win anywhere. And if I need to talk about Scott Dixon, then the word is lost.
So that's 27 short term. I think to your point, if I was on another side and another team looking
at my lineup, I'm going to go, we might get away next year because it's the same car,
same dampers. Every team swapped people in the last 15 years that everybody has everybody set up.
My cannon went everywhere. Cowden came everywhere. What about 28? When I go in,
fighting with the Alex Palu, Chris Simmons, Julian Jacoby, Julian,
Robert Julian in that group with the experience, then the Penske camp with Faustino and the entire
entourage with the technical side and a brand new car that nobody ever ran. We all got somewhere
or somehow complacent about the same car with a fairly young lineup of our drivers,
apart from, you know, Pato is experienced, but he's not old. And I'm talking about my lineup today
with the technical experience that also that they have that I know they don't because they have
an experience with what I did, what Ryan Hunter Ray did. And still with some deficit here and there,
how am I expect to win? So I know that sounds harsh sometimes, but that is the reality. And I
gotta face the reality. I guess that's where we are. And then 28 is a big year. This team is on
a high expectations are high. No matter what I do, I can go back five years from now when I
didn't renew Rossi and how much I got hammered. Actually, didn't renew Rossi and I hire longer.
Now I'm getting hammered again. So it's just it is what it is, Ben. I think I have been through it.
I think I owe a lot of people an explanation because I think they're race fans. We wouldn't be
racing if they didn't exist. Take a jab at me. That's how I operate, but also hear me out because
I've been trying to be as truthful and also it's what I believe. And then my entire career,
I had to believe what I do and what I did was right. And if you're humble enough to admit and
keep working on it, then it's a win-win situation. Let's touch on a couple other quick things and
now you got to go afterwards. So this is a part that is really hard for any fan to get, especially
those who have not played organized sports, been on teams. Obviously,
my most of my background is on IndyCar teams, sports car, open wheel. So been a part of that
for so many years of my life. And boy, my fondest memories in racing are the years where chemistry
was the heart. We might not have had the most talented driver in some of those instances,
but as a unit, we were working so well together or our teammates worked so well together. I've been
at some, I know you have too, where everybody just got the knives out and they had to coexist,
but had no words to share with one another if they weren't in the moment at the track.
I know you don't want to get into all this, but I can see it and have seen it from the outside.
Another big play here is chemistry. You mentioned it. Zach has mentioned it in his quote about all
this. I don't want to say that there's bad blood between your two veteran drivers, but I do know
at least the previous lineup with Felix and Pato. I refer to jokingly as Felix being like Pato's
emotional support human, right? Like they love each other. I don't know if these two right now
are in that place, but Felix and Dixon love each other. Felix is one of Dixie's favorite
all time teammates. This just seems to me like that chemistry thing, which really is that hard to
define component that you often need to get over the hump. You know, you heard the expression,
if it's so good, why change it, right? That's my reference in life, Marshal. I think,
I mean, I live for racing. I grow up since I was eight years old. That's what I do in
the best moments of my career. We made history with all the criticism and did you live with us?
It was the Andrade days, me, Dan, Daria, and Brian. If you talk about it, how that went.
And to think about that, if anybody doesn't believe in chemistry, then I'm not here to convince
anybody. Go ahead, you guys are just missing it. All of us won. Brian was our engine meal,
I would say, right? It was the harder days, the engine war, but Dan, myself, and Daria,
we were racing the same team for 56 years. We were all doing that period,
one championship, one H in the 500, right? So that is so much into it. And maybe I'm biased
because I lived. Maybe I'm biased because I know it works. Yes, I mean, I'm not trying to,
you're never going to force that, right? Because you don't force friendship.
My best friends, I mean, some of them are here with me now, thank God, and my team,
my best friends I made in racing, right? So the chemistry between the drives that I have
here today is, no, it's not, but that's fine as well. It's just the way it is. Then you give me
an opportunity on top of everything else to go, this is not about the drivers. We are the quarterbacks.
According to you, we're getting Tom Brady anyway, right? That is going to transfer that to the
engineering room to the 110, 25 employees that we have it down on the floor, to the sponsors,
to the fans. He can't tell me that a good, healthy work environment is not more successful
than a toxic one. So not that we have a toxic or a normal, that's called a normal one.
I don't think I need to explain any more why I'm getting those three guys together. And I can
tell you what, we're going to go on the journey that hopefully, no matter what I can tell you,
the outcome, each member that is leaving this moment at this team is going to say what,
I didn't see it at the time back then, but today I can say those are one of the best moments of
my life and I can tell be thankful that I live that experience. I feel responsible to give
my team that. I feel responsible that I want them to feel that. I feel like with my very broken up
English, I cannot even put it in words what that means. People have to feel it. And I don't need
to win a single race, which is, I won't be around if that happens, but which I truly believe that
is impossible not to win the people that we have here. But we're going to live a life experience
that in the end of the day, I think, you know, 80, 90% of this team, we're still going to send
each other Christmas cards and hang together and be and care about our families and care about our,
you know, our lives and so on. So yeah, I think I'm being a little bit more philosophical about
the chemistry man starts with the drivers and those three, they already have it. I got the
opportunity to get them. My question is why not close on the drivers that are heading out the door,
or tweet it over the weekend or post it or whatever it's called in the X.com world.
The Christian Lundgaard revenge tour has started and he's already in the team. This is a kid who
is now, he says he's no more motivated. I don't believe it for a moment, but this is a kid who
right now is auditioning for every other team. He didn't necessarily know he would need to until
somewhat recently. How do you go about supporting him making sure like truly if this kid can win
the championship? There's no reason to not support him doing that. But you also have Nolan too who
the bar for him to stay we know is really high. It was almost impossible to reach. I do look at him,
especially over the last month, month and a half and say, you know what,
this kid is no longer an easy layup. I'm not saying Alex Polo is losing sleep at night,
but Nolan Siegel has made a huge jump in the last 345 races. Just talk about how you
manage Christian going out with an even bigger chip on his shoulder, but also Nolan who's heading
out. And I do think he has demonstrated to teams you should be considering this kid for
continuing his development in the future in IndyCar. 100% up on my end, on the team's end,
nothing is changing. We're here to win a championship and I'm here to put Nolan in the top 10,
which is the most favorite, favorite quote of people that I said at the beginning of the year,
to have a race. And the last four races, I'm glad that I made the changes that I made to be able
to and it was just, we didn't replace anybody. We shuffle some people around and he's being
doing great. Christian is in the hunt for the championship and I won that championship. And
I don't need to go that much further down the years when I got fired from Andretti and I came
back two years later and I won the 500 in front of three Andretti's. I told Christian if that happens
to you, you will see that it will be the best feeling in the world. I'll be in the short end
on the stick here, but in my opinion, they should drive even harder if that's even possible. I think
it's something that sometimes things like that happened and then that's how it makes you stronger
and makes you think what you could have done different, but from a team standpoint,
nothing has changed. I have not changed the dedication that I had, have and will have.
I think it was a statement just yesterday, Marshall. They raced and Pato passed Christian
because Christian made a mistake. It was not a hiccup and a pit stop that people were going to go,
ah, look at that. We're here to race. win a championship. And Christian,
we didn't renew Christian. Christian is going to be a huge threat if he goes to the two C's
that are available. Christian is going to prove a lot of people wrong. He's going to make a lot
of people proud. The sport benefits from it is going to keep me on my toes every morning, waking
up and like, man, it's going to keep the dicks and the losing Christian, the Pato's on their toes.
Paulo is going to look like, man, this guy, right? And that's how competition works. And you win some,
you lose some, and you take risks. You make the right calls, you make the wrong calls. And they
both deserve a seat. Nolan, obviously, it was my, you know, kind of a personal project. So I am
all for it. I told Mark, I told CR, I told Nolan, whatever you guys need from me, apart from giving
you the best I can until the last race of the year. If anybody wants to talk to me, if anybody needs
my opinion, I'll be truthful. I'm not trying to do this because I feel bad because they're leaving.
I think they deserve a seat. Life's not fair. Sometimes we don't know what's going to happen to
either one of them yet, but they're capable. They're pretty good. And then on the Nolan side,
I was very happy because this kid's option was going to be, should I try another year or should I
go back to school? I said, I would hate for you Nolan. And this is from the bottom of my heart
with what the potential that you have shown this last four races for you to go home, right? And
wonder for the rest of your life, should I have tried a couple more years? I said, you need to
do it. So I told his dad that I told Nolan that and hopefully, you know, if I could run six cars,
maybe people would criticize me that I was running six cars and giving as much as now
over a sudden, you know, so there's plenty of seats out there and hopefully they will both land in
good ones.
About this episode
Tony Kanaan talks through McLaren’s major IndyCar driver shakeup, explaining why the decision took years and why culture and long-term performance matter more than short-term comfort. He frames the move as a gamble to build dominance against Penske and Andretti, admitting oval strength is the immediate priority for winning the Indy 500 and championship. Kanaan also discusses the lineup’s development timeline (2026–2028), the tradeoffs fans may perceive on road/street courses, and the importance of team chemistry and leadership amid intense public scrutiny.
Arrow McLaren team principal Tony Kanaan joins us to talk through the reasoning behind signing Scott Dixon and Felix Rosenqvist and farewelling Christian Lundgaard and Nolan Siegel.
If you'd like to join the PrueDay podcast listener group, send an email to [email protected] and you'll be invited to participate in the Discord chat that takes place every day and meet up with your new family at IndyCar events.
