Navigating Complex Car Issues and Customer Expectations with Chris Higgins, Part 2

They're not being forthcoming with the customer, letting them know the full expectations upon arrival. Like, hey, this is what's going to happen. This is the conversation we're going to have, you know? And there's going to be one of two ways we're going to go here. And communication is everything. And that just not even just in our industry, just in life in general. I think that's where most of frustration, confusion, and everything comes from.

That's Chris Higgins, this week's guest on the jaded mechanic podcast, part two. If you missed the first part of this conversation, be sure to listen to last week's episode. But right now, back to the conversation with Jeff and Chris on the jaded mechanic. I always use that analogy. You can have a car come in with a check engine light and an abs light on, and your customer can be a limited budget, and they say, okay, I just want the light to go off. Well, which light would you want? So you go and you look through it, and it's like, okay, so the car breaks fine, but the engine doesn't run real smooth. So you go to the customer and you go, okay, so we're going to limit a budget here. This is what's causing your abs light.

This is what's causing your check engine light and your symptom of how you drive it. That's what we're going to address. And the customer goes, okay, and then they pick up the car and they leave, and it's still got an abs light on. And then they jump on Google or they jump on the review board or whatever, and they say, hey, I paid you $1,500 and you didn't fix my car. That so many times falls on the fact that somebody that's communicating with the customer isn't schooled up enough to know that they're two completely different systems, right? It's two completely different broken things within this vehicle. It can be three, four, or five. You know how it goes.

Or even on some cars. Now, when you have the engine light on and it turns on the stabilitrak and every other light, and it's like, well, you need to fix this to turn these off and vice versa, you know?

But you could, you know, you could have the stability track lights been on forever, right? All of a sudden, the check engine light comes on, and then you have the advisor that may say, oh, yeah, when the check engine light comes on, it turns on the stabilitrak light to the customers, like they're thinking now, okay, when I leave here, I'm leaving both lights off. The reality that you're leaving with only one light off, you know, it'd be great. In a perfect world, we get them both for the budget, but sometimes it just doesn't allow. And that's the part I struggle with because I've had lots of cars that come in, they got an airbag light on, customers not concerned, tpms light, something like that. But when the car won't run. Right. Okay, now I got to get that fixed. There's where I love this process of thorough inspections because we have to document all that.

The best thing function I've started to really use now on my scanner is getting it hooked up so that it sends the report right to the cloud that is now logged on the file and the snap on, you know, so we can go back and look and say, so see all these other codes that were in here on other systems. We got your car to start and run for you, but, like, you were going to have an ABS code come back. There. There it was. And that's been so good for CyA, right? Cover your ass.

Yep. You got to.

It's getting the person at the front counter to have, like you said, that level of communication with the customers. And it's hard, you know, there's so much information going on around now. Like, I just. And me, I live in it, right? So it's like, you know, I've had a conversation this morning on TikTok with. With people about, you know, do we do pad slaps or not? Like, is that professional? And then you see people in another group that are talking about, you know, different levels of training and technicians, commitment to training and so on. So we're inundated with so much opinion and information right now that I used to think that I had all the answers and I had all the.

Right.

And now I know that there's so much going on out there, a Chris, that it's just like, I have it all, but I'm.

I think we all. I don't know anybody that tells me that they never felt like that at one point in their career, life. I'm gonna tell them they're a liar because I felt the same way, you know, but you grow, right? You. Or you realize, like, I do not know everything, but I have enough knowledge and know how I'll be able to get to the bottom of it, or I'll be able to get in touch with somebody that'll. That'll help bring me up to speed. Right. And, yeah, there's no possible way I think it's, you know, it it's all honestly meaningless to try to make sure you know absolutely everything, but to know where to go and look. I mean, that's something that, you know, we have that in the cloud.

We have that in our technology, right? It's like people are like, oh, you know, I can't, you know, then you find your friends that you haven't or acquaintances you haven't talked to in years, and then you get this random text, hey, how's it going? I'm like, just ask the question, right? What's going on with your car now? Why have this code? And I'm like, well, it could be one of ten things. So what do you mean one of ten things? You know, people, I think it's still a hard concept for the general consumer to understand that their automobile is probably the most advanced piece of equipment they'll ever own or maintain. They just think that some of them still think you plug this magic box and it tells you what's wrong. You know, why do you have to charge me for that? I'm like, well, if that were the case, I wouldn't have a job and had been done a long time ago, you know, there wouldn't have been any hope to try. But all these, then you have to try to explain to them, like, yeah, there's 23 of these different, there's 23 different computers that have to talk to each other, right? And if, and if one person has a problem talking, they can prevent your car from starting. They can, you know, shut down your, your radio, you know. Yeah. And then don't even get me started on Bluetooth connectivity, trying to connect multiple different softwares and different iPhones and androids with whatever software the OE decides to use on their infotainment at the time, you know, and that's a whole other animal in itself.

Sometimes different software versions aren't, aren't compatible for a month or so. So you have dropping out and cutting out, and then they're like, well, can't you just fix that? I'm like, I don't write software. I thought it'd be interesting once until I saw coding being written. I'm like, well, I don't do near enough of that to even make that interesting for me right now. Like, no, I can't, unless the, either your phone manufacturer or the OE manufacturer comes out with a different software to flash it to make them talk better. Unfortunately, it's, it is what it is, you know?

Yeah. And that, that level attack right now for me holds no fascination. You know what I mean? Like, I am so over that idea. Like, the. Not now that I'm over the programming thing, because I realize that we're fixing a lot more cars every day, which is program, but it's like, I don't want to step off into that and really commit to it. Like, I see some friends because it's like, they love it and they do it, and it's. My friend Brian says it's easy until it's not, and then all of a sudden, like, it's. You jammed it, and now how do you get it unjammed? And then that becomes the real workaround is, like, am I having to buy a brand new $800 module, or is there some way that I can make one work? And then that's where you get into the real expertise, and I don't want to commit to that this late in my career.

I just want to kind of continue to do what I do and, you know, focus on my fundamentals. Focus on training the fundamentals into the next generation to see how they can all link it together. But the new technology, to me, it's not that it scares me. I just look at it and go, okay. I know my limitations. Like, I just. It's gotten to me to the point of where it's. It's right on the borderline of redundancy, because it's like that.

I just want the car to drive and run for the customer. I understand that it's frustrating if you can't hook up to your Spotify account on the car, but, I mean, I can turn the radio on, you know? But when people would come in, it's like a Nissan I can still remember. She's like, it's supposed to be able to link four. Four phones to my Wi Fi. And, you know, she's like, as soon as the fourth one hooks up, it all goes slow. And I'm just rolling my eyes going, we've told. Told. Excuse me.

We've torn this car apart countless hours with engineering on it, and there is no fix for it. It's probably not broken. I understand they told you four could. The reality is three. Ken, what I like to say is.

Working as designed, not as desired. You know, that's a nice. I learned that. Picked that phrase up along the way, and I like to use that one quite a bit, because it's. You know, it's still, like you said, piece of machinery. It's a software. You know, there's certain limitations, you know, and it is what it is sometimes. And they may not like to hear that.

And then you get the time, you know, the, the response, well, I spent 80. I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you spent this much money on your automobile. Probably more than I could afford, you know, but it, it is what it is. This is the technology we have to work with, and this is how it's gonna operate until a software hardware change, you know, or some people aren't as receptive like that, you know, and that's, that goes back to like, you know, the customer that you could probably give a car, and they'd still have 500 things to complain about. Right. You know, there's just some people, excuse me, whether they have something going on in their own personal life that just makes them miserable to other human beings, it, you know, it is what it is. And sometimes you just gotta swallow your pride and let them have their rant, and hopefully that helped them to have a better day.

You know, it's, it's frustrating.

But what, um, what's so in all your years? Because people hear me and they know that I'm big on a process, right? Like, I have to have a process to know how I approach the car, how I then approach the problem within the car, so on and so forth. What's the biggest glaring thing that you've seen other tech struggle with? What, is it a lack of process or is it a lack of training or lack of mentorship? What do you, what's, what have you seen that's been, could you say is the one contributing factor?

Um, you know, that is a very interesting question, in my opinion, from the outside looking in or just kind of working with other techs. A lot of it is, has nothing to do with their level of intelligence. It's critical thinking. Right. It's, it's. And sometimes confidence. Yes. They have absolutely, like, no, you know, I still get my butt kicked on a regular basis because I choose to dive in and go down the rabbit hole in some of these things.

And one of my newest and co workers that I work with last summer, I was helping them see I'm pretty big, and like, I'll do, I'll program Fords. And GM's no problem there, especially. Well, GM's obviously, it's kind of been, you know, my life, but I was helping them, you know, program a Ford one day, and he came up to me and I was doing that, hooking this up, flying through ids quick, and, you know, and I should have took the time to kind of show them more, but until they start doing it, they're not going to learn anyhow. But he says, how do you just know all this stuff? You, you know, and I'm like, I screwed up a lot along the way, you know, some of its trial and error, and I wasn't afraid to screw up. I mean, that's one thing I'm really thankful for, like, because my whole career, and it started at the dealership level, learning how to document and write a story. But if you're justified in what you do and you have a clear, you know, whatever issue process, this is why I went this route, you know, people understand, but like, a lot of technicians, they'll get the deer in the headlight. Look, they haven't had that taught to them, right? I mean, they're still that, hey, when the vehicle comes in, you know, duplicate the issue. Like me, I'm still, our shops kind of run a little, maybe unconventional to others.

I still speak with, like, a lot of, like, my customers, right? And the owner, you know, he'll build a lot of estimates. Believe it or not, I'm still about 120% efficient. I build 90% of my estimates. I talk to 85% of my customer. And I'm not bragging or nothing. It's just, it's all my brain works. I just have a process. I'm good at speaking with people too.

Like with all my different, you know, with the FSC job, I just speak to numerous different people every day. And you got to be, you know, you got to be respectful, you got to be able to work even if you disagree with someone and all sorts of different personalities. So I've had that always. And that's another thing that works to me. A lot of techs, they don't want nothing to do with that, right? Like, I'll call a customer, you know, misses Jones right up on the phone and be like, hey, you know, this is, my name's Chris. I'm the technician working on your vehicle. I'm just trying to understand a little bit better, you know, what's happening and when it's happening. That's a lot of things, too.

Like, some people will drive it, why can't I ever duplicate it? I can't duplicate it. Ship it. Customer gets it, they get a block away, the issue happens again, and then they get all frustrated. I'm like, well, slow down a minute. Maybe ask misses Jones, hey, what are you doing before you get into your car? Are you throwing your purse in the backseat? Right? Are you pop in the trunk? Is there something that's being disturbed in the car before they're starting it. Right. And that, and I learned that from a couple very, very intelligent FSCs working at GM to be a critical thinker. I guess, to sum it up in a nutshell, I think there's a lot of people that just, like, basic critical thinking skills are being lacked.

You know, they get, you know, they get scared. They don't want to be pushed out of their comfort zone, and that's where growth happens. Right. So you have to find a way to, like, kind of give them some constructive criticism, like, not point out maybe what they're doing wrong or incorrectly or even if it, it's not always wrong or incorrectly. It's just a very inefficient way of doing it. Maybe saying, like, you know, that's a different way of doing it. When I've done it, I've done it this way. And then kind of see if maybe they pick up and say, oh, yeah, why the hell am I doing this? And a lot of it is that I found out when I was working with other technicians is they're just nervous because they're working with someone from GM.

And I have to look at them, say, hey, I'm a technician at heart, too. Don't be afraid to rip that apart. Don't be. Everybody is, you know, it's like somebody looking over your shoulder, right? You're afraid of screwing up. And really, we all just want the same thing. We want the car fixed, right? However we get there, how quick, how long it takes, whatever the end result, we want the car fixed. So, yeah, I know.

I never even thought about that. That would have been a great question, too, because some of the, like, the ego, because I want to say that some of the time when you're gonna march in there, you're dealing with, quote unquote, maybe the go to guy within the shop, right? So, yeah, there's always some ego there. And then he or she has to look at you and go, this guy's here to like, you know, bail me out or maybe make me look bad. And I don't, like, I knock on wood. I've never had to have a fields rep come in to a car that I was worked on because it was just too far away. The areas where I was at, they didn't seem to be, that didn't seem to be a thing. We had to spend a lot of time on the phone, you know, back and forth, go through, uh, document this and that and the other thing. But eventually it was just, I don't know, whatever happened to those cars, sometimes it was like.

Because chasing intermittence was the worst, right?

Like, it was absolutely.

You know, I always said, like, if the car is in front of me doing it, I'm 50% there. I'm already 50%. And it's the intermittent stuff that would drive you nuts. And I, you know, it's. To this day, it still haunts me, some of them, because it's like, did I ever really fix that car? Did the customer just go effort and live with it? You know, and that's the online thing I see all the time is I see these guys stuff their chest out and they're like, I fix every car. No, you don't. There isn't one of us every car, because we all work in shops, and it's like, all of a sudden you see this customer you've never seen before, and they have this issue, and then you hear the story and you're like, john, over at whatever shop thinks that he fixed that car months ago. The reality is misses Smith, you know, it's an intermittent thing.

She's just frustrated, she's tired. She's not going back to John. She doesn't want to raise hell, you know, that they were good for her for years and years and years. She just wants another. A second opinion, you know, another perspective, and she's there. And then we look at it with a completely different set of eyes and, you know, sometimes we go, what the heck? And a lot of the time it's been like, I've looked at it and it's like, well, there's why you couldn't get it fixed, because you never gave anybody enough money and enough time to fix it. But then the other situation is like, they just needed a next perspective. And that's why I wish we in the industry could work better to help one another in terms of, like, a much more communal feel.

You know, it drives me crazy when I see them people still running down. Dealer techs can't do this OETA, you know, aftermarket techs suck at that. And it's like, man, we're all just techs, you know, it's just a different way of how we have to approach the job. If we could all get to a point where we could share more information, reach out to one another a lot more, we could fix a whole lot more cars. And that's what I love about these network in these groups and stuff, like how you and I came to know one another and everything. It's just because that's that's the best part of all of this. It is truly own network of, like, hey, I'm stuck. What do you think about this? Because I know my friend Brian and I, we're in groups, and we talk about that all the time.

I'll reach out to him when I got one that's just like, Brian, what do you think about this? And he'd be like, and Brian's super smart, so. Brian.

Brian Pollock.

Yeah.

Yeah. I message him back and forth to y'all. I feel like I'm. I don't feel like I'm on my own little island anymore. You know, I message you guys, like, if. And I'm quick to call it if I really enjoyed, like, a podcast episode. Whoever listened to, like, it sounds cliche, but, like, I messaged him and saying, I really enjoyed that. I mean, I think that goes a long way to let you know that people are listening, right? That you're helping someone.

He's.

He's. He's next level smart, and then he is just like, you know, we say it all the time, that person will give the shirt off their back. But Brian really would, you know what I mean?

Seems like a genuine good guy will.

Stop whatever he's doing to help somebody else. It's amazing. The amount of work he gets done still manages to get done. The amount of cars that he gets to die with all the other time that he's on his phone or networking with other people that are reaching out to him to struggle, and it's. It's incredible. And, I mean, that's been. The beauty of these. These groups is, um.

A lot of the people that really have the skills have been come to the forefront. We see it. You know, there's a whole lot of guys that are, like, they talk a good game, but then, you know, and there's some other guys that are hanging in the back that are, like, their results speak for themselves, you know? And. And it's the people that are around them that. That. That speak for them that they don't even have to be braggadocious. But I love being able to connect with so many different people because I'm seeing it now. I'm seeing more and more cars get fixed.

It's just the way it goes is because it's like, well, we had one. We had a Subaru come in, and it been in three weeks ago, and it was for an oil leak diagnosis. And while we're looking at it like, it's a 2015 WRX, and while we're looking at it, we're like, well, the oil level is overfilled. You go ask the customer, did you change oil or no, no, but he's just there for the oil leak. So we make a note of it. The oil overfilled, no check engine light on, no drivability complaints from anybody. It comes back in, and it's like, okay, we shampooed it all off. Comes back in for an oil leak reevaluation.

We do it and we're like, so it looks like it's running out of that bolt hole. We smell the oil. Smells like gas, right?

Oh, boy. Yep, it's over.

It's got fuel in the oil, and it's making sure it's overfilled again. Well, we kind of know on a GDI system probably what's going to be happening right here, right? But still no check engine light, no codes, right?

No rich codes or nothing weird like that.

Yet you go, clear, frank, clear crank. You know, not hooking a scope up, but just an audible relative compression sounds great. So you look real quick. I don't see any kind of bulletin, but I'm like, well, if this was a GM, certain models, I'd be probably thinking that the high pressure fuel pump was leaking down, right? So sure enough, I can reach out to a friend of mine that's a Subaru guy, and he's like, oh, yeah, I changed all kinds of those pumps.

You know, that's one thing I've noticed, too, that's unique. You know, everybody's like, it doesn't seem to be make, model, or brand specific anymore, you know, getting. Not trying to backtrack here at all. But when we were talking about these newer vehicles and stuff like that, I'm like, and I'm sure you're seeing it, too. And all of us are more and more. It's actually fundamentals that are fixing more of these more advanced cars than ever before, I believe, with all these different modules and all these different ground circuits and power circuits, if you lose one ground, it may work, quote unquote, for a while because you're getting a. You're getting your grounding or you're feeding through some other ground. But then when it's this cold or when it's wet, that's when you're going to catch the glitch and what's it end up boiling down to you? Bad ground, you know, and it's like, what the hell? But it's that.

Or if you get with that and water intrusion, but, you know, it's. It's not so much of the days where my coil shortened the driver out in the module, like on the Fords. Normally if there's a bad module nowadays, it's from water intrusion. Um, I'm not. Okay. There are some bad modules or solder joints, you know, but it, it's the fundamentals now more than ever because we're trying to cram so much small stuff into tighter areas instead of like one big, huge ground islet that provides a great ground. You know, we have tiny islet and there's a lot less grounding surface on there. It doesn't take as much corrosion and oxidation to start screwing us at.

Yeah.

And it, those are still what trips people up, you know, and I made my living on a pattern failure I did for years. That's how a dealer tech should make their. But when I came out, it was like, it just. I wouldn't have survived if I hadn't have realized what they all had in common instead of what they all had different. And you can start to see it now. When you take these parts apart, like a high pressure fuel pump on a GM doesn't look a whole lot different than a high pressure fuel pump on just about anything else. You know, they're in. Obviously then.

Yeah, probably built by the same company. Whoever designed it builds it. So when you start to see a failure in one. Yeah. Don't immediately rule that out because all, they never do that. You know, if I'd ever said, oh, they never did that. And the Subaru one was funny is because my boss calls a guy that he knows and it worked at the dealer and he's like, I don't remember ever doing one. And then I talked to my friend that works in a shop and he's like, oh yeah, they go bad all the time.

And then he can show me because he's into, like, his is heavily modified. He's into some of the forums for subarus and stuff. And it's like, it's a rampant thing. It happens a lot that that pump fails like that. So we now go to feeling very confident without having to remove it and do it, you know, the smell test or whatever, the check. We feel really confident saying to the customer, yeah, it's probably going to be this thousand dollar part. Now our dower diags in. Do you want us to try and fed it out further or do you want to commit to doing this part? Because we probably know if we go in and pull it out, we're gonna definitely prove that it is.

But then some of them, like, he warned me, don't pull it out to have a replacement because the plunger is going to stick in the bore. And when you go to lift it out of there, it's going to come out in pieces and then you're committed. So you don't want to do that. When it's like the customer, this is on a whim of an inspection. This is like, I already want that customer to approve. If we go in here and we find this, you're buying it, right? And that's, that's tough. A, like I, I diagnosed a Kia for high pressure fuel pump a couple months ago and I'd never seen it, never been on that, but it was like the codes were showing me that. I vetted out my circuits real quick and I'm like, it needs a pump.

It's $1500. Part cars. Not that old like it said a warranty, but it's not that old. And nothing felt better than when I got to drive it. It drove like a brand new one again, like it was. And people are like, oh, come on. No, the data wasn't exactly pointing it to me. It was.

It was an intermittent thing. For the first time he brought it to us. It was just a light on to when he brought it back next week, it definitely had a drivability issue. You could definitely feel it drove it, which he didn't bother to mention. So if you come down and it's like, that's the part that I'm not scared to screw up, but I mean, I am really. When I get to be where I'm the first one down that path that nobody else has ever been, that's when it gets scary for me, you know, and I can say that because in a dealer where you're going down that path every day, but you always have somebody else that's familiar with it. Somebody else. There's a whole parking lot full of known good parts.

But when you're in the independent side and you're the first one going down that path, it's scary. And, you know, I have so much respect for fellow techs in this industry because I don't think. I don't think we celebrate ourselves enough and I don't think. I had an interesting conversation. Somebody was saying this morning to me, they're just trying to help the consumer better understand what it is we face. And I'm on a completely different side of it because it's like I don't ever have the confidence that they're ever going to understand or appreciate. I just want to bring us all our competency level up to where they can be less grievance about how we do business. But I just look at.

That's.

I completely agree, too, on that. You know, I'm trying to, you know, kind of educate the customer a little bit, even the people I work with, you know? And that's when, you know, being an f, a lot of people become an FSC, and they keep moving up the corporate ladder, right? So I'm unique. I went back into the independent world for, you know, life reasons, and. But it was something I'd never change in my life, you know, because having that, right, you're nervous. You're going on uncharted path. You're going to work on new makes and models. That's broken, mister. Customers mad.

I got to drive 300 miles. Do I have everything I need? I'm gonna be working at a dealership with a technician I've never worked with before, a service manager I've never spoke with before. And they look at you for answers, right? You are. Yeah. You're the gatekeeper. You're the. How we proceed to, you know. And I was scared shitless the first few months doing that, right? You'd go train under another one, you know, on a couple cases you make.

All right, you know? And then, you know, your team leader pulls a rug out from underneath you, like, all right, yeah, you know, go to this case, you know, or, you know, work. Work as you would, you know. You know, make your own schedule and do so doing that and then coming back into the independent world, you know, and being home every night, you know, which is awesome. It's just amazing. And that's. Gives you that confidence right there. There's a lot of stuff I've never seen before, you know, in the FSC side of it on a new model year, but, well, there's only one way to find out, right? And dive in and learn. So now, when you're transitioning back into the independent world and some of these cars are, you know, five, six, seven years, you know, there's not.

There's not a thing. I'm not. Am I going to get it right all the time? No, but I'm not afraid to tackle, you know what I mean? It's just a car, right? Then the day it.

It.

And that's not always a good phrase either, I mean, because they are very advanced, right. But the end of the day, it's. It's a car, right? You know, so. But that's helped me out a lot. And, like, some people, you know, there's a lot of people that, you know, still text me like, I'm sure text you, you know, and they look for pointers just because, you know, they know your experience or you're well rounded in different areas. And I'm like, you know, check this. I'm like, oh, that burnt me before. You know, test this, this, this and this and then, or, hey, that one's unique.

This is how I would do it. But let me know what you find because, you know, my, mine's kind of like a sponge. I'm constantly absorbing stuff and whether it sticks or not, but I just. Curiosity, right? It's like going down the rabbit hole. There's some stuff we probably don't have enough time sold on, but I'm stubborn and I'll work through my lunch break a little bit. I'm like, no, I want to do this one other test. I got to do this one other test or I'm going to be mad at myself and it's going to eat me up, you know, and, and it's just the nature of the be and I think that kind of separates like the passionate ones about it and the ones that treat is just a job. They punch in at eight, you punch out at five and that's it.

Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, you know, I was, you know, growing up on a farm and, you know, farming, anything worth doing is worth doing well, right? It doesn't matter what time of the day it is. If it's this time, you go work, right? So that passion kind of carried over into my career now where I don't just go to, you know, I get to work at 630, quarter to seven every day and, you know, our lunch and leave at five, you know, and it doesn't just stop at five, you know, it's listening to these podcasts we always do. It's networking and in the groups, right? It's, you know, it's watching the latest, you know, scanner, Danner video. It's looking at, you know, TikTok. It's, it's constant, you know, and it's, and I wouldn't have it any other way but to try to get some technicians to get on board with that too. They're like, well, what's in it for me? And I'm like, well, if you want to get to that level of a decent to very, very good living, that's what it takes.

You know, I had a friend, you know, he's in the, in the body side of things, right? And he's been. He's been, like, working, you know, for himself, doing side jobs for a while. And he went to college, too, right? And he's going through some family issues. It's like child support and stuff, you know? And I got that, too. And he's, like, messaging me. He's like, I don't know what to do. You know, it doesn't pay for me to work. You know, they want me to pay this, and I'm like.

And I kind of had to have that brother talk to them. I'm like, here's the deal. This is how I do it. I don't punch. Go to work eight to five and punch out and be done with it. I mean, you got to either pick, are you going to be employed or are you going to be self employed? And then you got to pick your hard, right, if you're going to be employed. Well, it doesn't just stop always at your job. What are you doing in your spare time? Are you doing anything to make your processes more efficient? Are you going to paint three cars a day or two cars a day? Are you going to do stuff to show value and sell yourself to your employer? And if you can't say yes to any of those, you're gonna have to choose your other heart and be self employed and then find your own way to get your revenue streams come in.

Right. I mean, you gotta choose your hard. It's hard being a business owner, and it's hard being a top tier employee, but choose your hard.

Yeah, you always gotta make. I say it all the time, you've got to make yourself indispensable. Us are truly safe. None of us are always, like I say, just listening to, you know, another conversation. Yeah, you can leave. And it leaves a ripple. Absolutely none of us are ever to where they're not gonna. Something can't happen.

You know, even if I remember now, I keep thinking as I. As I get older, it could be an injury that takes me out, right? It could not. It might not be a situation of they. An attitude change or whatever, personnel change. It could be an injury. We have a tech off from work right now or at the shop. I've never worked with him because he fell off his roof last summer. I started in September.

He is still not back to work. He is that, like, he broke his foot, really messed up his leg and other spots. I think there's a back injury now that's a result of this.

That's.

We don't know. He's trying to come back to work. So I keep thinking I can pour all my effort into becoming the go to guy, becoming the sharpest guy, the best attitude, whatever it is, it could still take something else, could take me out of the game, so. But I still have to put that into myself, build my skillset, always be learning, because it's the only thing that keeps us safe. If we just go and do the job. Yeah, you go in and do the job, you're valuable to your employer, right? You turn x amount of hours a day, you make some profit. But if you really want to go that next level, that different level of security, that different level of input, you know, when my boss leans on me for so many opinions now, I don't even know how to handle it sometimes. And because I'm just like, how do I not say the wrong thing, you know? Because people that know me, they know I'm.

I'm sometimes blunt, dangerously. Right. And it's tough.

I can relate. Yeah. Funny to say that I just had one of those experiences a couple weeks ago. And, you know, not always that I wasn't maybe necessarily wrong in the situation, but how I kind of spoke to my boss about it was completely wrong of me. Right. So I had some amends to make there. After the weekend of thinking about, I talked to him. I'm like, you know, you're right, and I apologize.

I'm like, I should never have talked to you that way. I'm just really passionate about. And this is why I wanted to do it. I didn't mean any malice by it, right. I didn't mean any harm. And he understood, too. And he was like. And he appreciates, like, it.

Don't take a big man to apologize. But, you know, it's who we are as human. You know, at the end of the day, he's worried about keeping the lights on, keeping us work fed. Right. And there's certain things that I don't like to deflect from whether I'm employed, you know, with whoever on my process and essentially my morals, right. Like, there's certain things that I won't, you know, like with the inspection process, you know, it's our job as professionals to make sure the customer knows everything about their vehicle, whether they like to hear it or not, because, you know, it's an investment for them. Right. You know, so.

And then if you ask some shops, you know, there's a gray area there. Some shops want to just sell what it needs to get the sale, but. And then after the fact, tell them something. And then I'm like, I don't like that because you're putting a bad taste in your mouth. Because they might have went about the process differently if they were better informed. Yeah.

So you don't want to, you don't want to put new brakes and tires and struts on a car that the transmission slipping and let them know slipping when all the work is sold. That's not, that's not advocating for the customer.

100%.

Sorry to interrupt you there. Keep going.

No, and that's, and that's where I was going, so. And that's not really what, you know, was going on in this situation, you know, and. But it kind of was. I don't know. That doesn't really make sense, but it's just like, first time customer, right? And they're like, well, geez, you know, some of this stuff can wait. And I'm like, well, and that's basically what we had. He didn't want to withhold the information from him, but it was a first time customer. The estimate I built was like, 4400.

Right? And he knows I can sell, too, but he's like, we can't present, you know, that way they're just going to leave and go somewhere else. And I'm like, and then he kind of said, sorry about that, too, because how I presented, I'm like, hey, this is what we need to take care of in the next six months. You know, this is kind of what you need to plan on budgeting for, you know, and it worked out right. But just, he was stressed about certain things I was at the time, and then how we conveyed that to each other was, was not good. Right. So I had some amends to make with him. And then bay partner next to me, because he didn't really like how I said it, too. But, you know, it's like our mouth, you know, because he, he had to do one of those, you know, talks with me where, you know, remember, you know, I'm the boss yet.

And I'm like, yes, you are. You know, I respect you, but doesn't mean you're always right.

That's right.

And, and I said that, and it was one of them things. I'm like, God, did I say that? You know, I should have bit my tongue. So, I mean, that was kind of disrespectful because the other techs heard it, right? So after I thought about it, you know, I should have never said that. If anything, I should have. We should have went into another office and say, hey, this is why I want to do this, you know, and it shouldn't have been out front, but, you know, that's not the first, it's not the last time. In different scenarios, you know, sometimes my mouth gets me in trouble. Um, I just. But, you know, what you see is what you get.

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I'm gonna be really, you know, truthful, and I want that conversation back, you know, because I'm not. I don't always have the. The right outlook on things, but that's how I've done it forever. So I need somebody to look me back in the eye and say, well, no, this is why I do it this way. And I'm like, well, why? And I'm not doing it to be mean. It's because I want to learn. I want to maybe modify my process or help yours.

You know, I ask why all the.

Time, and I'm sure it's probably frustrated some of my co workers and some of my managers pass. I'm not asking it to challenge.

Right?

I'm asking to understand, you know, the why is, like, I post in the group all the time. The why is way more important. It's not a challenge. Please don't take why. When somebody asks you, why, why? Why? Don't take it as a challenge. Take it as a. It's a better understanding. You know, they're just trying to get closer to being on the same page, you know, that's why I do it.

Because to you, if you say this reason, and I might immediately go, well, what about that? That could be something you never even considered, something that you never even thought about. If I, we didn't have the open lines of communication for me to say why, we might not have even improved on the process or improved on how we do things because we would have been closed off to one another. So the why is critical. The why, the why is not a challenge. The why is an invitation to improve. Please, everybody listening, take it that way. That's how I want to feel. Most of us are coming at you when we come at you with a why.

It's not because we want to do less. It's not because it's an in ego thing. It's like, help me help you get on the same page. We can always just, we can try it and it doesn't work, or I can try it your way and it's not my way. And that's all right. We'll still going to work together. But don't take it as a challenge. It's not meant to be.

It frustrates me, because it's. I'm so forthcoming with everything. I wear my heart on my sleeve, you know? I'll tell you, I don't like to do this. I don't like to do that. I feel like, you know, I'm. My boss comes at me sometimes, and he. He's a much nicer person than I am. He is much more emotionally invested in.

In the customer. Each customer's experience, and I'm not right. To me, it's just a broken. It's just a broken car. I had a customer where. I'll give you an example. They brought us a Kia, was probably six, seven, eight years old. Like a sportage, I think it was.

And they just bought the car. They bring it to us for safety inspection. It needed $8,000 worth of work, right? They ended up taking it out of there and going, I don't know where they went. I don't know if they went to sell the car. I don't know if they went somewhere that could beat the price to get a different state. I don't know. It doesn't matter. My boss felt terrible for them, right? He felt off, and I looked at it and went, they just spent dollar 150 on a pre purchase inspection.

They wouldn't have made that mistake, right? Just that simple to me. And they look at me like I'm crazy, but it's just how my. My mind works, right? Like, I look like the very small investment would have saved you that very big expenditure that you're now stuck with. You own this car. You bought this car as is now. You got to safety it. You're stuck. You are stuck with it.

$200, $150 for an inspection would have saved you a shit ton of money.

He feels thing. Yeah, I had that same thing, you know, and it's. A customer got mad, right? We had to say, and I don't mean to cut you off, but I just did before it was fresh in my mind that triggered a memory. Like, in November, we had a GMC acadia. My wife actually works with this lady, and she went to some guy, and he ended up getting in trouble for it. He'd been apparently done shady business deals before, but she went for a test drive in it. The guy wouldn't barely let her go around the block, but she still, for whatever reason, ended up buying it, right? And then it ends up at our shop because she knows my wife anyway. And I'm like, well, this transmission is cooked.

I mean, six speed. Probably never had the, you know, transmission fluid changed. And, you know, so then I tell that, and I didn't know this at the time because she, my wife had given her my number, and I'm like, okay, yeah, we'll look at it when it comes in. But it already been being looked at, right? She, you know, after the fact, you know, so I. So she's all, you know, trying to play the emotional discount. Cause she had some life changes going on or divorce or what have you. So then she needed this car to work, and. And she just spent, you know, seven, $8,000 on it with a bad tranny.

And I called her and I told her, I'm like, you know, I know they're pricing you out a used tranny, but I would highly advise against that. I would, you know, pay the extra three grand to have it because this used tranny, we're going to find we don't have any guarantees on it. And even if we do have, and you're out for a month or two and you're in the same position, you know, what did that benefit you? You know, and then for whatever reason, she, she kept being adamant about it. Then she called back once and I wasn't there. And we wanted to go the used. She wanted to go to use trainer. She didn't care. And I flat out said, I'm like, this is crap.

I'm not putting that used tranny in unless at least we're putting a new torque converter in it. They agreed to that, at least. So they get to use tranny here, right? And I drained the fluid out of it before. I already had the cradle and everything on the ground and the other one off, and I drained the fluid out of the other one and pull the old torque converter out, put a new input seal, getting ready to slide the new torque converter on, and I come back and pull the pan out, and I'm like, I really don't like this fluid at all. It's black. It has that burnt smell, you know, that expensive smell. And I show the owner, and he's like, it's. It don't really look that burnt.

I'm like, I don't have a good feeling about this. We should not be doing this. He's like, we'll put it in. Just put it in, you know? And I'm like, all right. I put it in with that new toy converter, filled it up with fluid, you know, checked fluid level, whatever drove it, second geared, chattering to beat, held, barely going to third, hop into 4th, 5th, whatever. And I went back, I'm like, this tranny shot. I told you that when it's on the ground. No, can't be, really? And I'm like, it is shot.

And I'm like. He calls it salvage yard up again. They had another one that came out of it, and the customer apparently had paperwork. It got t boned out. Shortly after they got a Reman. So we ended up getting that one and putting it in. But, you know, I'm doing a tranny job twice. You know, we're not getting paid labor.

The second time, we had to pay the difference. And then, you know, explain to the customer that this other remand used one costs a little bit more because at the same time, they. Long story short, like that just should never have been presented as an option. Just be like with these vehicles the way it is, we want to put a certa in there. You know, you're going to have a three or a hundred thousand mile warranty and you going to pay two, $3,000 more. But you're not going to have to worry about coming back to us for this issue again. Instead, I did it twice. The customers, Madden didn't understand, and on top of it, it had a headlight out and it was one of them hid ones.

And the bulb is like 200 some dollars our cost. But she wanted it fixed. But it adds like $400 to the repair order, a little more. And she's like, well, I thought it was just a bulb. Like, hundred dollars. So you see where I'm going with this. You know, they. And then they're bad, and then not necessarily at you, but just their life situation, and they made poor decisions.

I told her, I'm like, same thing you were just saying, if you would have had this inspected, this wouldn't happen. And if he, the seller wasn't going to let you to take it and have it inspected, you didn't want to buy it anyway. It wasn't the car for you.

Yeah, I. And, you know, it's so tough because, you know, you. I look at it and it's like, if the person just bought it, the very likely chance that they're going to be able to do, just do a band aid and get rid of it, that ain't going to happen because most people don't. They still believe in that karma thing. They don't want to just band aid it and turn around and sell it. Now, they might go trade it, but they're not going to sell it. And trading is becoming a less and less of an option because the dealers out there, whoever they're trading to, they know, they know it's coming in for something. They're low ball and potentially so when somebody just bought something and immediately needs something, I don't even want to go the band aid route as an option.

No, because know that they're gonna be driving this thing at least a year or two years from now to whenever they think they might have, you know, their ducks in a row in a better way. And they can. They can then think about life doesn't work like that.

No.

They get wheels underneath them and are reliable again for a little while and it's all forgotten. Then it becomes just the gamble, the rolling, you know, the tick and time bomb, whatever you want to call it.

Fix it for cheap because I'm going to get rid of the vehicle. And two years later they come back, same issues. And it's like, I thought you were getting rid of it. Well, I kept it for a while. Why is it broke again now? And, well, because you tried. We didn't do it right the first time because you're gonna get rid of it. So I've quit doing that as well, too. I'm like, this is how we're gonna do it.

Either want to do it or you don't.

Yeah. And I think that's. So it goes back to the pad slap conversation. This morning, some guy was on me hard. But listen also, you, you put rotors on every time you do a brake job for people. Listening? Yep, I do.

Absolutely.

He's like, well, the service manual says, I'm like, nowhere does the service manual say just slap pads on old rotors. It gives specifications for rotor thickness and all that kind of stuff. And if that meets it, they tell you, you can. Real world situation is, if I do it, it's a cut rate hack repair for my customer. If that's the kind of customer that I have, I don't want that customer. If the person comes to me and wants that kind of repair, they're not my customer. It's not advocating for the customer the right way, the best repair to do it that way, no matter what the budget is or anything else, I can't do it. I cannot bring myself to do it.

And, you know, I've always said, even at the dealer, before I was ever an independent, if, if you didn't want me to do it, there was other people that would do it. I was do it that way. And I would, I would hand keys back more times than I probably should have. Now in this shop, it's tough. It's the boss that is in charge. So it's not like I can just hand keys back and they don't pay me because it's flat rate. He's paying me, right. I'm hourly.

But I still, I will never be at this point in my life, in my career, where I'm just going to shut up and not say anything. I'm going to speak my piece. I'm going to put my input in. Because if you're going to ask for my input when it's good, you're going to get my input when it's bad.

Absolutely.

Going to have that open line of communication. Those channels are going to be free. They're going to be free. And it sucks sometimes it's where we all have to be adults. Don't get your, don't get offended, don't get triggered. Just listen to what the other person in your career and in your business has to say because they don't. There isn't a, like you said, malice is a great word. There's not a lot of us going out there with a ton of malice.

I don't go to work and try to upset my boss if I already don't like him working there. I don't go and try to stir trouble, you know, but I don't walk around compromising my ethics or my beliefs just to get along. I don't go along. I don't get along just to go along. That isn't me, you know, I'm going to piece and that's it.

And most of us, we spend more time with our coworkers and our bosses, right, than we do with our own families. So if we can't have that open lines of communication, granted, doing it at the right times as well, too. Not always like where my mouth gets me in trouble, like we spoke about, but that needs to be there. Otherwise, what are we doing, right? I mean, everybody's like, well, it's just a job. Go to work, do your job and go home. But we spend a majority of our living life at our job. Why can't it be a little more right, you know, why can't we have those open lines of communication? Good or bad, you sit on that resentment's build. That's when blow ups happen, right? That's usually when people quit.

That's when, you know, people start hating each other, right? I hate to use that word, hate. It's usually another communication deal. You have different points of view, but, and that's what it is. It's communication or lack thereof. So if you can't you know, express how you're feeling, good, bad or indifferent in the right setting with your boss, with another co worker. You know, you're living a fake life, right? You know, and I think that would solve a lot of problems in any industry, not even just ours. You know, everybody gets so caught up in theirselves and myself, including, you know, we're not looking at the bigger picture, right. You know, it's, we're all human.

We all have problems. We all are going through tons of shit, right? And it's the human factor, you know, look at your Baymate. Don't look at them. You guys aren't there fighting each other. You're under the same roof. You're looking for the same goal. You know, whether he fixes the car, you fix the car. The customer knows that.

Hey, XYz autos, the one that fixed the car, right? You know, Bob's repair, fix the car, that is the end goal. They don't always care what individual in that business fixed it as long as it's fixed. So as a customer side, they look at the business as one business. You know, we have to be like one, you know, cohesive unit. We have to get along together. If one person's having a bad day, it'll help you understand maybe why, you know, they're not being short with you. They don't, they're not mad at you. They have shit going on in their own lives.

Okay? You know, so, and I think a lot of that, you know, I think a lot of, even now, more than ever after, you know, whatever your views on COVID was shit show in our area, it didn't affect our business as much as maybe, like you guys said, you got laid off for a while. It actually, yeah, it picked up around here quite a bit. It was some of the best years for shops ever. But at the same time, mental health greatly, greatly got impacted, you know, myself included at times. And so when you go to work and you're around people all day, but you can't in a respectful way, communicate whether you're feeling good, bad or indifferent or talk through problems, you build resentments, you self isolate. And then when you go home, you're not around anybody, then the real damage happens and we have to forget at the end of the day, we're all human. So what can we do better with each other to achieve the common goal? And I think it's coming around all I know, I guess in my own way, I can't speak for everywhere. I think it has a long way to go.

But I. Obviously, it's on the radar now, right. You know, there's been a lot of unfortunate events happen due to mental health, even, like, with some relationships and stuff that I know of certain people. And it's just a tragedy. Like, you know, wouldn't have to go that way. You know, my.

My friend, a month ago, took his own life.

I'm so sorry to hear that, man. I think you're speaking about that. Yeah.

And, you know, we'd kind of drifted apart and, you know, that was the biggest epidemic up here during COVID was the one I never talked about, which was mental health and suicide skyrocketed. And up here, COVID is over, but the fallout from it is not. And I think what happened is that their marriage was a casualty of COVID I think it was like, once it would happen, it was too much. And I don't know the whole story. I'll never will. But, you know, it's. It's why it's important all of us that we go to work every day and just, you know, be thankful. Like, it's.

It can, man. I've been. I've been in some jobs that sucked, but I was still thankful to have the job, right?

Absolutely.

And. Because being without one made it way worse. And if it wasn't for my little dog and if it wasn't for. If it wasn't for Lucas, you know, giving me a platform. The first time, the first recording of the first podcast ever recorded when I was off work and I was angry as hell at the world. If that hadn't to come along when it did, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be in this industry. I don't even know where I'd be in this universe.

And so things happen for a reason, and I've been a lot better and becoming a lot better at reaching out to people just to say hello, just to check in, just to. Because it's such a huge part. And it's not just within this little circle that we're all in, right? This industry. It's within other people, too. I reach out to people that I don't work with or I'm. I know them from different ways, you know, that come in my life. And that's what COVID taught me. I hated every second of it.

I saw what it was doing, and it made me very angry. But it's been this platform that has been able to. To help me heal through that, and that's why I want to thank yourself and, you know, everybody that comes on this podcast. I say it every week when I. When I post. You know, I love you all, and I appreciate you all because it's. This is so. People reach out to me all day long, and they're just like.

Like you said, the podcast, you know, I listen to it all the time, and it takes up all my time now, listening to podcasts. That's great to hear. But I hope my guests realize how much therapy I get out of just being able to have conversations like this today, Chris. Like, it's. It's so good for me because it keeps me grounded. It keeps, you know, everybody always reaches out to me and says, I heard that episode, and it's like, it so resonates with me. That particular guest resonates with me. Or that guest or, you know, the running joke.

Paul Danner. Right, right. So many of us, you know, he. I'm sure he'll probably stop listening eventually because he's just tired of hearing his name. He's that way. I mean, you know, it's. There's so much therapy that happens from having these conversations, and that's just what I wanted to thank. I want to thank you, Chris, for coming on today and giving me thanks.

For having me, Jeff. It's. It's my pleasure there. I've. I greatly appreciate it there. It's something I enjoy as well, too, there. And I think anytime you can, you know, shed light on that, too, because you never know what somebody's going through, right. And just that kind thought or that.

That kind word that you give them, that. That'll give them the extra. The extra fight to hopefully make the. The right decision and keep on living, you know?

So, yeah, on closing, what do you want to see improve in the industry?

Honestly? Communication. Right. And at the same time, remember, you know, no matter what you're going through, too. And it's tough for me, you know, I'm not perfect at it, too, but we're all human, right, at the end of the day. So, um, you know, be kind. Right. And. And communicate, you know, tell somebody how you're feeling.

Reach out.

Amen. Well, Chris, I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on.

Thanks again, Jeff. That's great.

We'll talk again soon, and I'll have you on again at some point.

I'd greatly appreciate that.

All right, take care. Thanks. You, too. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the changing the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for.

Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time.

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