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Person
Darragh O'Brien
An Irish government minister who helps create and run policies, grants, and programs to help people switch to electric cars.
Concept
EV scrappage scheme
A program where the government gives you extra money to trade in and destroy your old, polluting gas or diesel car if you agree to buy a clean electric car instead.
Term
VRT
A tax you have to pay when you first register a car in Ireland. Electric cars get a big discount on this tax to make them cheaper to buy.
Term
BIK
A tax you pay when your job gives you a perk instead of cash, like a company car. Governments make this tax much cheaper if the company car is electric to encourage businesses to buy EVs.
Concept
range anxiety
The fear of running out of battery power while driving an electric car and getting stranded before you can find a place to plug it in.
Concept
two-way charging
Technology that lets you use your electric car's battery to power your house during a blackout or when electricity is expensive, essentially using your car as a giant backup battery.
Term
CPOs
Companies that build, own, and run the public charging stations where you plug in your electric car.
Company
ESB
Ireland's main electricity company, which is responsible for setting up and running many of the public electric car chargers across the country.
LIVE
So today we have a very special edition of the Nevo EV news podcast.
My name is Simon under Chetty, I am the MD of Nevo and I am joined by the
Minister of Transportation, Dara O'Brien, TD.
Great to be here, Simon.
Again, good to, thanks for coming in to the office, Brendan.
Thanks very much for having us.
I know today, like of all days, July 1st, you've got the EV scraperage.
We also have the European Council.
So really do appreciate your time and so let's dive into it.
What I'd like to talk about obviously is the obvious, the EV scraperage.
And just to give the listeners an overview, Nevo.EE is Ireland's home
electric motoring.
We cover news, reviews, events, consumer education, as everyone knows
who follows us and I suppose the big success that we've had over the last
couple of years is focusing on the misinformation that's been out there
about EVs, working with bodies like SEI, Zevi, but also all the full car
industry and the local franchise dealers.
By launching the events, we've had over 52,000 people come into the
across the events.
We've had over 130,000 people come onto our websites every month now.
But the big thing that's really stood out is the EV scraperage scheme
over the last couple of days.
It's as of today, it's fully subscribed.
It is.
So you must be very happy with it because it was a new initiative that you launched.
No, look, I'm really pleased.
And look, as I said, it's good to have you in.
And I suppose the day that's in us is it's really timely.
We look, I want to see how I really wanted to run a pilot scheme to get
real data and actually try to tackle the older cars and to actually
sort of deal with the myth that EVs are more expensive too.
And what we're seeing now in Ireland is the three most, you know, reasonable
or cheapest cars out in the market are now full EVs, right?
So we've done very well on EVs.
I think as of the end of May, about 247,000 on our roads, we're seeing
massive take up in EVs, which is great because it's great for our climate.
But it's also great for people's pockets, right?
And with all the measures we have in relation to BIK, VRT, reduce road tax,
all of those various different things, as well as the grants to the three
and a half thousand Euro grant that we have in place.
So people are responding to that.
And I want more and more of our private car fleet and the taxi please to be EVs.
Now, what are the scrappage scheme?
Because I looked at the rural areas in particular, I looked at older cars
and I said, OK, well, how are we going to see if we can make a really
impact in a short space of time to remove older, more polluting cars?
Where maybe people felt they couldn't afford to change those cars.
So that's why we targeted specifically two thirds rural, one third urban,
basically a 5000 top up on the grant.
It opened this morning and it closed after 90 minutes.
Very good.
And what's really interesting within the initial data I have is that it looks
like there's a size of a portion of those cars are the smaller EVs.
Very good.
So look, I'm delighted with us and in fairness to the motor sector,
that would have well, I know there's a lot of demands than that demand
and expectation has to be managed.
But I did say this would be, you know, a short, sharp scheme.
And then I will assess the scheme itself, look at the data within us
and then see how we move forward with this.
Very good.
I suppose because we regularly do a survey or a quarterly survey
with concern to get consumer sentiment towards EVs.
And we just did that for Q2.
So the biggest drivers for people moving to electric top three drivers
are basically lower running costs.
Second is basically because of sustainability benefits, which is great
to see because in our last Q4 survey, that was actually fifth.
So that's jumped right up and people prefer the driving experience.
So that's number three.
But still the top barrier for people actually making the switch across
is upfront costs.
Yeah.
So obviously the scrapper scheme has spoke to that and you can see
through the help and the benefits of the grant.
So with the data, do we think then there's the grant, the current grant
we'll tell you on into 27 or do we think there will be some form
of the scrappage scheme in early 27?
Well, firstly, the three and a half thousand euro grants will be maintained.
OK, and that's a real support for people.
And we did a one off on the scrappage scheme.
This is only the third one, I think it's been done in the country.
But I'm open to looking at it again and to see if we need to do it again.
Not this year.
I need time to assess it and meet with the sector as well.
See the type of cars that are purchased and where.
And one area is said earlier on as I particularly wanted to focus
on our rural areas and it seems to me from the initial data
that we've had that has been really successful.
So I want to see the continued acceleration of EVs and EV purchases
are now the number one car type being purchased out there.
Really interesting to see the work that you're doing with regard to the survey
and sentiment and I think if you even go back a few years,
people would have said too expensive, range anxiety,
you know, didn't like or maybe thought they would not like the driving experience.
Yeah, all of those myths have been busted now.
OK, that's really important.
So I've a target as transport minister under a climate action plan
of 30 percent of our private fleet to be EVs by 2030.
If you asked me earlier last year, if I'm being really honest,
would we get to that?
I said it's going to be a real.
Which it, you know, probably not.
Yeah, I think now what we're seeing over the course of the last
812 months, but particularly this year,
that we're seeing such an accelerated take up of EVs
that that target is when in our reach.
Yes, I totally agree.
And I think it's almost like it always a perfect storm,
which is a perfect mixture of things that's happening.
The government brands coming through at the right time, the initial launch
at the right time and the product range is now available from electric vehicles.
It's like when electric vehicles first really kind of came out
into the market, they were very focused on the kind of large SUVs,
which obviously had a hard price tag with them because of the batteries
and everything else. But now it's really diverse to product range.
And as we just spoke about before, I suppose we start recording is that
the mid 20 car market, 25 cars, around 25 grand are coming out
under the fastest growing segment in the market at the moment.
And it's great to see because this EV is kind of from what you're saying,
it's going to really fuel getting those cars on to excuse the pun,
but getting those cars out to the road.
Yes, we get more of those, you know, between the 19 to 25 grand cars on the road.
A lot of them probably will end up being the first people,
the cars that people have to drive on, you know, that's a point you make
before we started recording and hadn't actually thought about it that way,
if I'm being really honest. And yeah, I agree with you.
So it could be the first drive for someone and that they're only ever driving
EVs for people of my vintage is obviously substantially older than you, Simon,
as well. My first car was not an EV, right?
So but what I really think as well is the other thing,
the scrappage scheme has enabled us to do is to get other more people
into the discussion on EVs.
I know from talking to motor dealers and to different showrooms
that people were coming in asking about EVs that wouldn't,
didn't have a 13 year old car that actually weren't going to be in
the additional grant scheme, but we're getting the three and a half thousand
and then we're getting the grant for the home charging and all of the
various different sports that we have.
So I think it's piqued a lot of other people's interest in it.
You know what? Now is the time to do it.
You're right when you mention the, for want of a better phrase, the perfect storm.
Yes.
Certainly when you see the volatility in fossil fuel prices because of the
outbreak of the war in the Middle East, because of the illegal invasion
of Ukraine by Russia, that the price of fuel at the pump is fluctuating
so much that people can't plan that they can't budget properly.
And cost of motoring, it is expensive.
And that's why you look at the government level.
We have taken measures in the short term about a billion euro of supports
to reduce exercise duties, but that's not something that's sustainable
in the long term.
Of course.
What is sustainable from a climate perspective and from a cost
and affordability perspective is EVs.
Okay.
And where people then can, can a lot of people want to charge at home,
can pick the times when they charge as well with those cheaper electricity rates.
We're going to continue to improve the EV charging infrastructure
at an under 30% around the country.
But I think Ireland is perfect for EVs.
It is.
Look at the range that we have and the size of our country.
Yeah, but it's also not just the range and the size of our country,
it's the amount of the driveways we have.
Now, I know, I do know there's a lot of apartments out there
and I'm not going to put you in the position to ask about getting charges
into buildings because, you know, there's other,
there's other things that need to happen there as well.
But I think it's like, if we focus on the people who can have access to
home charging and, you know, to solar or to charging providers, that's a win.
And if we can look at basically getting charging into the arm blocks,
that'll be an irritable win working with developers.
Can I mention something quickly?
Yes.
Because I am working now through private wires legislation,
okay, to deal with that issue of people who don't have their own driveways,
basically.
Okay.
And I've looked at what's happened in Britain, how it's worked in Britain,
and we're going to make changes through the local authorities on that
over the course of this year.
So I'm hopeful by early next year,
I'm hopeful and aiming by early next year to have that through and in place,
that there will be guidelines for local authorities on permitting,
basically cross common areas for charging of street parking,
Austrian parking, exactly.
So we've worked on that over the last number of months.
We're nearly boxed off with it now, to be honest with you.
And I'm looking to have that in place, as I said, very early next year.
And that will help.
Very good.
I think the other piece as well where we need to stop looking now,
SCAO, I do great work when it comes to solar home grants as well.
What's coming out more and more popular is people using their vehicles to actually charge
their house and not get away around.
So the advances in technology there as well,
it's going to be incredible when you look at that full 360,
where people become less dependent on, I suppose,
more dependent on their own energy that they can charge or develop at home.
Well, you mentioned it earlier, Simon, sorry to go across.
If you look at, let's say, the rooftop revolution that we're having now on solar,
okay, and we support that with solar grants,
the people generating their own energy, two-way charging.
So charging from your car battery into your home.
Yes.
We're looking at those things around batteries in the home,
but we've seen it in Britain as well, certain parts of Britain,
where you're looking at the battery now and in Germany, indeed,
is becoming part of your home energy supply.
So, and that two ways.
So we can do that and we are starting to do that.
So there's massive potential in this.
It's good from an affordability perspective.
It's great from a climate perspective as well.
And also from an energy perspective.
Yeah, just all around.
I think when what happened at the start of the year,
without getting geopolitical issues, what happened at the start of the year
and the volatile that was around fuel pricing,
it was clear to see everyone's focus shifted towards electric vehicles,
but not just electric vehicles, the full 360 solution with solar.
And it's actually, it's unfortunate,
it took that much to kind of get people to realize the benefits of it,
but it's great to see there's so much grants involved on different bodies for it.
The one thing that I feel that doesn't get enough air time sometimes
is the grant for taxi drivers.
Yes.
We saw that and we would regularly look to do content with taxi drivers
or people whose vehicles are service goods or for workday today.
If a taxi man can drive a vehicle, that's electric,
all day long, every day, charged at night,
and of all the people not give out too much about it,
I think it's a real testament.
Do we think the taxi grant then is going to continue on as it is?
I know it has reduced down slightly,
but is that something that's still on the cards for 27 as well?
It is.
It's a real driver for endorsing
how suitable electric vehicles are for day-to-day commuters.
No, no question.
If you're a taxi driver, you're doing the miles.
Exactly.
It's as simple as that.
So everyone can see it.
Our taxi fleet has improved greatly over the last five years.
Okay, wheelchair accessibility grants,
which we have coupled with the EV grants.
So when you couple them together, it's substantial.
They reduce slightly.
This year, the reason for that is because the uptake was so much,
and I don't have a certain pot of money,
so I wanted to make sure that we will continue.
We've made some changes as well to it,
but we've been well received in relation to
not allowing multiple applications.
When I came in here first,
we opened one grand scheme that was closed in a matter of minutes,
because some of the larger operators,
and I'm not slagging them off in any way, shape, or form,
were able to put in multiple applications.
Of course.
So the guy or the girl who's running their own car then,
were at a disadvantage.
So we've restricted the number of applications as well,
which means we can have a greater breadth of people
actually being able to, particularly those own car operators.
And they're the ones that I really want to get to,
because it's good from a cost perspective for them.
These would have been heavy diesel or petrol users.
So you're taking those emissions out.
You're reducing their costs as well,
and therefore increasing their margin
and making that taxi sector and the job of a taxi driver
more sustainable, and actually, as I said,
improving their own margin.
So they'd better take on that.
Yeah.
And I think that's a really good thing.
Yeah, that was like any time we were in the taxi sector,
we were typically talking about the cost savings,
of just like the overheads they're reducing with fuel.
But again, I think it's just,
we should probably do more to promote it,
because if the daily consumer will own,
our daily commuter will only travel around 30 kilometers a day.
So the real show is that the average EV at the moment
will do 400 kilometers on a single charge.
So unless you're really doing the taxi miles,
there's no reason why you can't get away with charging
even once a week.
And that's the message we're really trying to get out there
for the people to move across.
There's no denying that electric vehicles
are now tipping into the mainstream.
It's great to see the price point is right,
the product range is there.
And I suppose the charging, and since I don't know
everybody touching up, but I feel like getting the charging
and making charging more public.
So the CPOs, I know there was a grant that went to CPOs as well
to help them get charges out,
but there's been a little bit of red tape there as well
when it comes to the building.
Is does that fall again into the new reg
that you're speaking about to help it?
I know that was about off-street parking,
but is there anything we can do to help get the building
and the infrastructure done for the larger CPOs?
I think we need better.
The changes are bringing forward for, let's say,
off-street parking don't relate to EV charging.
We need to just do it better.
Okay, and that's better coordination
between the local authorities and who are managing us,
and they're doing well.
Like we provided substantial funds this year.
I think in the range of 45 million,
I'm going to say in relation to charging infrastructure,
but there needs to be better coordination
between ESB local authorities,
and I've actually had in this very rude meetings with them,
ESB and ESPN are really positive about EV charging.
We have seen instances, if we're being really honest,
whereby EV charging points have been put in place,
be they on private four courts or public charging as well,
and it's taken too long to get them to connect.
So that's the type of thing that I'm working on.
So we can deploy them sooner.
We're also bringing out more EV charging
through sports clubs and mobility hubs.
Sports clubs are a really good place,
actually in Malahoy, and our own town very recently,
at Malahoy United that you'll know too,
we opened up a couple of fast EV charging points up there.
And that's just one of hundreds of clubs across the country
that we're doing.
That's a great place for people when they're going to their
golf club or their soccer or rugby club,
or whatever the case may be,
or their community centre,
that they've EV charging there available for them.
We're supporting that.
So I think it's not the finance, regulation,
it's about the implementation.
Yes.
So we're working on improving that.
That is not perfect.
We're going to be straight with people,
but we're going to make it better,
and we are making it better.
I'm aiming for a 30% increase in public charging points
over the course of the next year.
We're on a bit 3,400 nationwide, not bad.
It could be better though.
No, but it is.
It is.
I think people don't realise.
I know, I think it's one of those things,
when you buy an EV and you start driving,
you realise there's actually a lot more charging around it.
Unfortunately, the people without EVs
seem to think that there's none around,
but I think it's only when you access them
and start using them, you realise.
I think the growth of EV charging is great,
and it's great to hear 30%,
the target of 30% is a real tangible number
to go towards.
Look, I know you're very pressed for time today.
It's alright, but I really do appreciate it.
I actually had a lot of other questions,
but because of the EV strategy being so successful today.
Well, maybe I could say one thing.
Look, and I know I'm sorry about the pressure on time.
No, it's not a problem.
From a government perspective,
it's minister for transport and also minister for climate.
And there's actually a lot of synergies
between climate energy and transport.
Well, I said two departments,
a lot of work between them.
You can kind of, you know,
for using agricultural freight to cross-fertilise
between them and use those synergies.
How we were able to do this pilot scheme for argument's sake
was actually money from the Climate Action Fund
in the Department of Climate Energy and Environment,
basically coming across the Department of Transport
to support the decarbonisation and electrification scheme.
So we didn't have to look for more money.
Didn't have to go down without us to, you know.
So it was using our own resources,
but just using them better to have an impact.
So look, it's been great.
It's great the focus that you have on this
and through all your listeners and your followers
that can get more information out about it.
EVs are the thing now, and this is not going to change.
This is really how we can accelerate it further,
continue to support it.
That's why I made some changes
to the three and a half thousand New York grant
where we reduced the applicable amount of 50,000 for a car.
Yes.
To be straight at this stage,
we don't need to be supporting luxury cars.
I'm not giving out of someone going to afford my luxury car, Grace.
I think that's a fair point.
I think the grant should be focused
towards the people who need the most.
And so we had the Nevo EV show coming up now in November,
and we actually have 100% of the car brands booked in.
And so we have over 38 car brands
with these evening, and it would be 150 cars.
So it's on track to be the largest EV event ever in Europe.
Seriously?
So we'll have to pop in.
So we'll have to pop in.
So we'll send you across an invite,
but it's only solely electric vehicles.
So it hasn't been done to this scale
before anywhere else that we've seen or looked into it.
It's a typical petrol and diesel atom.
So we'll have to pop along there
and we'll see what the latest update is then as well.
All right.
Fair play to you.
Thanks for coming in, sir.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
About this episode
Ireland's Minister for Transport, Darragh O'Brien, joins Nevo's Simon Acton to discuss the massive success of the country's newly launched EV scrappage scheme, which fully subscribed in just 90 minutes. O'Brien explains how the scheme targets rural areas to replace older, polluting vehicles with affordable electric cars. The conversation covers Ireland's ambitious goal of reaching a 30% EV private fleet by 2030, upcoming legislation to solve on-street charging challenges for apartment dwellers, and the future of vehicle-to-home two-way charging technology.
Original notes
Today's EV Scrappage Scheme reached full capacity in just 90 minutes.
That's the scale of demand for electric vehicles in Ireland right now, and it's why we sat down with Darragh O'Brien, Minister for Transport, in Leinster House for a special edition of the Nevo EV News Podcast.
In this conversation, our Managing Director Simon Andreucetti asks the Minister about the rapid uptake behind today's scheme reaching capacity in under two hours, and how Government support has shaped this demand. They also discuss what's planned next to help more consumers switch to EV, along with the Government's approach to tackling home charging for homeowners with off street parking, one of the most common barriers to EV ownership.
A timely and important discussion on where Irish EV policy stands, and where it's going next. Listen to the full episode on Nevo EV News.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Nevo EV News Podcast
Derek Reilly
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