Nissan WTF??? | Episode 927

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It's noon here in Ventner City, New Jersey and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.

And this is Car Agile Live for Thursday, September 18th with your hosts, me, Ray, here in

my condo in Ventner City, New Jersey, and Zach, dreamin' of the Red Rocks in Vegas.

But unfortunately for him, he's still in his office in Washington, D.C.

How are you today, Hanson?

I'm doing well.

I'm going to be out there though in two weeks.

I don't think I'm going to be able to do any climbing, but I've got a buddy's bachelor

party in Vegas, so that'll be fun for a weekend.

But yeah, I don't think I'll be able to go climb the Red Rocks with such a bummer.

But anyway, folks, maybe they should change the venue of the bachelor party.

Maybe.

Today's show, folks, is brought to you by CarEdge.com as seen on the ABC affiliate

over in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, excuse me, saving money with artificial-

The big city of Philadelphia, my hometown.

Yeah, there you go.

So thank you to ABC Action News out of Philly for doing an awesome piece about saving money

with artificial intelligence on the AI negotiator from CarEdge.

What a cool moment this morning to have seen that go out.

Really huge thanks to them.

But Dad, the big story this morning.

Well, no, the big story is I didn't even know that piece aired.

And I started getting texts from friends of mine who live here in South Jersey and apparently

watch Action News at four o'clock in the afternoon, going, wow, that AI, the agent

is incurred.

Wow, I just saw you and Zach on the action.

That's incredible.

So that's the big story, buddy.

Going up to New York to do an in-person interview with one of the news affiliates up there next

week.

So yeah, more press coming, which we love to see.

Let's start here, though, Dad, Nissan WTF.

Two big stories this morning from Nissan First, year sales and marketing chief Vinay

Shahani, resigns after less than two years on the job and, quite frankly, the bigger

story I think, Nissan getting rid of the Nissan Aria in the United States for the

2026 model year.

Where do you want to start, Dad?

We've got an executive leaving his role, which is a little bit shocking.

And then we've got the pullback of Nissan's Aria EV.

Where do you want to start?

I think the big WTF here for Nissan is losing their sales and marketing hit.

All right, I'll start that.

This is a guy, Vinay, who they poached from Lexus less than two years ago.

And, you know, to suggest that he probably had a good run at Lexus because I don't know,

they have like a 39-day supply of automobiles at the Lexus dealerships and they've created

a certain mystique about the Lexus products.

And so you poach a guy like that to help turn around the fortunes of Nissan in North

America and North America is their most important area.

I'm going to sneeze.

Oh, my God.

Excuse me for that, ladies and gentlemen, I forgot to hit my sneeze button.

Oh, I don't have one.

And so you poach a guy like that to to really turn the tides for you.

And then he just quits.

I mean, it's not like.

He said, hey, you know what?

I'll give you two weeks.

He just he just up and quit.

OK, he said basically what he's saying is enough is enough.

This ain't going to work.

I don't want to solely my reputation any more than I already have.

Oh, by the way, I'm taking a job outside of automotive because, well, probably

nobody in automotive wants to hire me again because I was stupid enough

to leave Lexus to go to Nissan.

But in my opinion, because I don't, you know, but but the point is

if if you poach somebody from a company like Lexus and you can't

give them the tools that they need to do what it is that you hired them for

and they just abruptly quit.

That's that's the WTF moment.

That's that's that's a WTF moment.

And and maybe maybe a death knell moment

for the company here in the United States.

Just what do you make that of the decision to pull the Aria?

I think this is this one makes sense.

I mean, Nissan is not selling the Aria well in the United States.

Even your tax credits go away.

The countdown's on 13 days from now.

You're no longer going to have even tax credits.

So Nissan pulling back on one of their models that they invested a ton of

money into. So you've got an executive leaving and you also have the pullback

of what was supposed to be the future of their business, their their hot EV.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's it's imported from Japan.

So it's subject to higher tariffs than it was when they first came out with it.

They came out with it and the public's reaction was that's nice.

We don't want it.

So they those vehicles they'd been languishing with since they introduced them.

So, yeah, they said, OK, we're not going to we're not going to ship

any of the 2026s to the United States in 2026.

They're also not committing to bringing it back in 2027.

So I think I think the handwriting's on the wall.

The Aria will be an EV that will be available in its home market

and in Europe and for whoever might want it there.

And their hope will be that the newly

redesigned Nissan Leaf will be there.

Their standard bear as far as an EV is concerned.

And yet they're having issues with that during production, because, well,

the battery doesn't seem to hold its charge the way it's supposed to

and doesn't get the range that it was supposed to get.

So it just seems.

It it it seems like everything

at Nissan at the moment is is just going to hell on a handbasket.

If they touch it, it dies.

If they touch it, there's issues.

So I, you know, literally they say that the North American market

is their most important market.

And even though sales are up, I think 3.3 percent year over year,

they're still down like, I don't know, 15 or 20 percent from four or five years ago.

It is it is a brand that has lost whatever luster it had

and is struggling mightily.

So yeah, this is this is for sure.

Two WTF moments for Nissan

and how they recover from things like this beyond me.

Yeah, I hear you loud and clear.

All right, I want to parlay this into a conversation around what's

happening at the car dealership market in China.

Now, you might be saying, Zach, why the heck are we going to China?

And the reason I'm bringing this up is because there was an article

in automotive news how China's auto industry got stuck in a profit tailspin.

If there is an automaker domestically here in the United States

that's in a profit tailspin, it is most certainly Nissan.

And the reason I bring this up is because look at some of these numbers

on about retail.

Visitors can choose from some 5,000 vehicles at one of these showrooms

where you can purchase new cars in China.

Locally made Audi's are 50 percent off.

A seven-seater SUV from China's F.A.W.

is about twenty two thousand three hundred dollars, more than 60 percent

below sticker price.

I'm bringing this up dad because in the second largest market

outside of the United States, you want to see, you know,

you know, big price decreases.

OK, here's what's going on in China.

I'm not saying you're going to see 50 percent off Nissan Arias

any time soon, but this is how bad it can get.

This is insanity to me.

Well, well, it's insane.

Here's what you have to remember about China.

And I'm not going to sit here and suggest that I am an expert

on what goes on in China.

Yep.

Because I am so far from an expert.

I don't even know how to order Chinese food

when I go to a Chinese restaurant.

There it is.

Why? But I will say this.

There are cities in China where they are imploding

high rise residents, high rise condos

that they built that that, you know, the the government helped

subsidize these giant real estate developments

that nobody ever moved into that they couldn't sell any of the.

And so I literally there are.

What does that have to do with the car market there?

Well, I'm getting to that.

I can tie all this together.

You have you have no idea how my mind works.

So the government encouraged these real estate developers

to go ahead and build all this housing

that they then had to implode because these giant buildings

just set their vacant.

Well, the same thinking was utilized

by the Chinese government to encourage automobile manufacturing

and EV automobile manufacturing to the point

that there are so many EV manufacturers in China

that cannot compete, that cannot make money

because they have built much more supply

than there is demand even in their own home market.

Yeah. So it's it's if you watched what they did with real estate

and you apply that same thinking to what they're doing to the EV industry.

You've got to believe that it's not just EVs.

I want to just caution you here. It's not just EVs.

Well, it's automotive.

Yeah, it's cars. No, it's just cars.

Like this is the reason I brought it up

is because when you have such an out of wax supply and demand,

which is what we're seeing here in the second largest market in the world.

Yes. But again, Nissan Profit tailspin, they lost.

What was it?

Pretty much 99.

I think it was 99 percent of their operating margin last year in one of the quarters.

This is how bad it can get. We've never.

I mean, keep me honest here.

I don't think we've ever seen 50 percent off here in the United States,

even though OZ 72 says you may see 50 percent off or more on Ram products.

I don't think I'm right here with Mr.

Seeing they've never seen it, but it is possible.

And that's what we're seeing here in China.

Well, we have seen it in this country.

OK, in fit on Fisker products.

When when Fisker first brought out the ocean and their and their other new EV,

I mean, nothing, nothing failed quite as quickly as that vehicle did.

The reviews that it got were so horrible

that vehicles that had allegedly had an MSRP of around $40,000

were selling in the teens because Fisker was going out of business.

So we have seen it and you don't see it often.

You don't see it on brands that I don't know stick around

and they're going to be here for a long time.

And so you're seeing that same impact on the automotive industry in China

because the government encouraged through price reductions

these companies to compete worldwide

and have a competitive advantage because they could sell their stuff

much cheaper than other manufacturers.

Well, they could sell it because the government was subsidizing it to a certain degree.

And now they're all struggling because you've got way too many cars

and not enough buyers.

I don't know. I've heard of that somewhere before.

Well, that's what I'm saying, man.

I was just thinking like we're looking at all this Nissan information

and how they're in, you know, a tailspin.

Could this be a potential place where we land?

I don't think the ecosystem in the United States can support

50 percent off for the sale of new vehicles.

But let's do a live experiment.

You know, I love doing this.

I pulled up a 2025 Nissan Rogue were in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Lovely place. OK.

Supplies, 58 days.

That's actually that's great.

If I'm a Nissan dealer, I love that.

Even though this one's been sitting for 130 days,

you're not seeing 50 percent off when there's a 58 days supply of inventory.

You're actually seeing relative price strength for the dealer

when there's a 58 days supply of inventory.

So, you know, there are some makes and models we've seen,

like for example, the new 2026 Ram pickup trucks

where I think we were looking in some markets, there was like a 4,000

days supply because they just came out.

Yes. And the dealers haven't sold the 2025s yet.

But I don't think things get quite as bad as they've gotten in China.

I don't think you're going to see 50 and 60 percent off MSRP ever

in the United States market.

Prices will get lower, significantly lower.

But I don't think for the mainstream brands, you're ever going to quite see that.

The only way you see that.

Is if one of the major brands just

pulls up the state stakes on their tents and and and closes up shop.

And so, you know, in order for their dealer body to get rid of the vehicles,

you know, they're going to have to price them 40, 50, 60 percent off.

You know, because that that then becomes distressed merchandise.

Could could could I see a future

where Nissan pulls up stakes in this country?

I don't I doubt it.

This is their biggest and best market.

So it's it's not like they're going to say to themselves, well, let's pull up

stakes in the United States and we'll just concentrate on Europe, Japan and China.

Oh, wait, things are worse in Europe, Japan and China.

So I don't see that happening here.

But I do I do foresee.

Certain brands that are relatively mainstream brands,

Alfa Romeo, for example, I can I can see them vacating the US market again.

If and when they do that, will you be able to buy

an Alfa Romeo at 50 percent off?

Not sure what I could I suspect that perhaps

Jaguar's foray into an all electric vehicle and taking a year off

could spell the end of Jaguar in this country come next year,

when they try and re-enter the market, perhaps.

So I think there are some brands out there

Mitsubishi might be one.

I think there are some brands out there

that that could really struggle and maybe at a certain point

decided it's time to exit the US market again.

And if they do, maybe that's the one circumstance where we see

similar price decreases like what we're seeing in China.

I thought that was crazy when I saw 50 and 60 percent off MSRP

further reinforces the idea that the MSRP is just that it's just

an arbitrary line in the sand.

It's a joke.

And the beauty of that is that this particular reseller

they go out and they buy the distressed merchandise from the manufacturer.

They're not even necessarily a manufacturer or dealer in that sense.

They are a reseller of distressed merchandise that they bought.

OK, and then they turn around.

And so if they're offering outies at 50 percent off

or they're offering vehicles from F.A.W. at 60 percent off.

Well, that means they paid less than 50 percent off

to buy the outies and less than and they got more than 60 percent off

to buy those F.A.W.s because they're still making money.

They I mean, there are always liquidators out there who buy goods

at pennies on the dollar and then turn around and sell them

at 40, 50, 60 percent off of what the asking price was.

You know, because well, they bought it at 80 or 90 percent off

of what the asking price was again.

The market dynamics between the United States and China a little bit different.

Yeah, there is not a dealership network per se.

I mean, there are dealership groups out there,

but in there's also the case of these resellers.

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Let's have some good news.

OK, just and on our team compiled seven vehicles that are actually getting

cheaper in 2026 and it's not just electric vehicles.

You ready for some good news?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, clue me in.

All right, let's run through it, Dad.

First on our list, we got seven of them.

The 2026 Dodge Durango Road and Track Plus.

Yes, this vehicle, Dad, the 2026 base price is $47,490.

That's a seventy five hundred dollar price decrease year over year.

We're starting off with a banger here, man.

Dodge knows that they're struggling to sell vehicles.

They are reducing the base MSRP plus destination by seventy five hundred bucks

year over year.

So so so they're admitting that that for the past few years,

they've just really stuck it to their customers who were thinking of and who

purchased or at least a Durango.

I that's that's what they're saying.

Hey, man, you've got to give them credit.

At least they're they're doing something.

Well, yes, yeah, you do have to give them credit for that.

You still have to berate them a little bit for having waited five years to do it.

OK, as they watch their sales go down and they watch their market share shrink.

But but yeah, you have to give them credit for finally going.

You know what? It's I guess it's past time, so let's do it.

So yeah, God bless them for that.

Hopefully it'll be enough to get people to consider the Durango.

I know we rented one when we were in Puerto Rico and it was an all right vehicle.

But you've come on here and you've shared the story.

What was it, the actor at TL?

Yeah, it was a heel year over year.

They added functionality and features and they actually reduce the MSRP kudos

to Dodge here. They're doing the same exact thing.

But they redesigned the car.

It was a whole completely different car.

I'm pretty sure they haven't done that on the Durango other than just lower the price.

For sure. But still, that's a good kudos to them for realizing the error of their

ways five years late and doing something about next on the list.

That the Cadillac OPTIQ. Wow.

I didn't even realize you made this thing.

We're seeing a nineteen hundred and ninety five dollar price decrease.

So nearly two thousand dollars year over year.

This is their entry level luxury EV.

OK, great. It seems to me they they need to take more than nineteen ninety.

But hey, it's a start.

It's it's a start.

You can see the the side over here of the next one.

Twenty twenty six Chevrolet Silverado EV.

Dad also is seeing a price decrease year over year.

A twenty two hundred dollar price decrease year over year.

Can we go back to Cadillac for just one second?

Of course, you know, when Cadillac decided that they were going to go all EV,

they gave their dealers the option of going along with it or.

We'll buy back your franchise.

We'll pay you to buy back your franchise in your area so that we can have less dealers.

Yep. Those Cadillac dealers

that opted to sell back their franchise to GM were probably some of

the smartest people on the face of the planet when, you know, in hindsight.

You know, if your entry level luxury vehicle is fifty two grand

you on on models that, yes, sales are up because incentives are going away

on models that otherwise have been difficult at best to sell.

Those dealers adopted to give up their franchises made the right decision, in my opinion.

Interesting comment here.

The OPTIQ price cut is fake.

They removed the all wheel drive being standard equipment.

And now it's the base model with rear wheel drives.

That's a good inequality point here.

Thanks for calling that out.

Next on the list, Ed, was that Silverado EV?

You know, slight price.

And this includes the destination charge decline there.

Dad, another product from Stellantis, the twenty twenty six Jeep Cherokee is

actually seeing a two thousand two hundred and ninety five dollar price decrease.

They skip twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five on the Cherokee.

Yeah.

The twenty six is all new design and everything like that.

And the base price will be twenty two hundred dollars cheaper than it was three years ago.

And it'll come standard with the hybrid power train.

So there's there's a situation that's that's akin to what Accura did

with the TL in nineteen ninety nine and and two thousand,

where they completely redesigned the vehicle and added a lot of

of standard features that would have been optional on other vehicles

and lowered the price significantly.

So, yeah, it can be done, you know, to take off two years before you do it.

God, I mean, give I'll give some flowers to Stellantis for for

admitting the error of their ways and at least trying in some small way or another

to do something about it.

Yeah, absolutely. You have to.

You can't look at this and think otherwise.

Twenty twenty six Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is seeing its base price go down as well.

Fifteen hundred and ninety five dollars at the base price for twenty twenty six.

Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is still forty seven thousand three hundred and fifty five

dollars. Other Wrangler trims have actually seen their prices go up,

but the Rubicon actually has that sixteen hundred nearly sixteen hundred dollar

price decrease.

Well, OK, so that so so far three out of the seven are still at this promise.

Next, you've got that the key EV nine,

the EV nine, depending on the trim level, seeing a two thousand or one thousand

dollar price decrease.

But let this sink in, folks, the MSRPs on these are still absolutely crazy.

The GT line, for example, for the EV nine is seventy three thousand three hundred

and ninety five bucks.

I don't know, man, that's that's a hefty, hefty, hefty price tag.

Well, well, you know, I'm of the opinion and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm of the opinion that if someone were to go into a key

dealership and drop, say, seventy five large plus fees,

they're expecting to walk out with two or three cars, not one.

OK, that's just me,

because I I can't think of a Kia and seventy plus thousand dollar MSRP

in the same sentence.

Those two things do not go together.

Yeah, well, when when maybe you remember when you were in kindergarten or

first grade or second grade and they'd go through things and they'd go,

what doesn't belong here?

They'd show three pictures and they'd go, well, what doesn't belong here?

And and so if they showed pictures of vehicles that are seventy thousand dollars

MSRP, I think people would go, well, the Kia, that doesn't belong there.

So that that is that is it.

And I understand that the EV nine is a lovely, beautiful

EV, but oh my, it's seventy three thousand dollars worth.

It's a Kia, damn it.

OK, it's still a Kia.

Price price point went down, though.

I want to be very clear.

So year over year, what we're celebrating here is the price actually went down.

But it's still an absurd price point.

And then the fact that it's a Kia just adds insult to injury.

Then next vehicle in the last vehicle that's seeing its price decrease here over

year, notice, no Nissan's on this list.

Yes, we started the show with Nissan, no Nissan's on this list.

The twenty twenty six Kia Seltos, much different price point here.

Data thousand dollar, nine hundred and fifty dollar price point decline year over

year, we're talking about twenty five thousand one hundred and thirty five

dollar base MSRP, that's more like it.

Yes, that, you know, and, you know, when you when you say Kia and a twenty five

thousand dollar MSRP, that's what you think when you think Kia.

And that's why I'm thinking if somebody is going to drop that kind of money

on an EV nine, they're thinking that they're picking up three,

three of these type of vehicles and not that that EV.

Yeah, absolutely.

Done, though, I will say, good to see we've got some price declines heading in.

Yes, yes, twenty six.

Let's come here to the.

You know how you like to do things live, of course, live experiments.

I would like you, if you could, to we know that the Fed dropped the Fed

rate yesterday, twenty five basis points.

And we know from the Edmunds data that we talked about the other day

that the average new car APR is seven percent and the average amount

financed is forty two seven.

Yep.

And let's just say for fun that that's for 60 months.

I would I would like to see what that twenty five basis point drop.

How that would impact the payment if the auto finance drop was

the same twenty five basis points.

Cool. Yeah, let's do it.

So you're buying a fifty thousand dollar vehicle.

We're in the state of Utah, whatever.

We'll just keep all the open ten thousand dollars down.

So we're financing forty grand over 60 months, seven hundred and fifty four

dollar a month payment.

And that's a and that's a pretty good seven percent.

All right, so let's do some because we know that to be the average interest

rate today. So we're at seven hundred and ninety two bucks.

We're financing forty thousand dollars.

OK, now put it at six point seven five percent.

So it went from seven ninety two.

So it's a five dollar a month payment difference.

My point for doing this experiment is that five dollars is not the difference

between what a customer can afford and they cannot afford when it comes to

their monthly payment.

So those people out there who are hoping against hope that

this cut in in fed rate is going to have a really positive impact on auto

loans. You're out of your mind.

OK, you can see right here that it is such an insignificant amount that it's

not really going to drive more sales because somebody could save five

dollars a month that that you know that that doesn't even pay for one

Starbucks coffee.

So you think about it.

I mean, I'm not saying that five hours isn't five hours.

Well, maybe today five hours is probably two dollars and fifty cents.

But whatever I am saying is that it's not a significant amount of savings

that it's going to to positively impact auto sales and save the industry from

itself. And what do I mean by that?

Well, the industry is are those who have continually increased MSRPs over the

year to make most vehicles out of people's reach and a five dollar a month

reduction in that payment is not something that's going to move sales forward.

I think you're on to something pops.

Let's come here to the chat.

Yeah, from Matthew.

I appreciate it, Matthew.

Yeah, buddy, just picked up a GT3 RS 350 large already.

Oh, damn, Matthew, I kind of wish I was you for a day.

Oh, why just do it for a day?

Yeah, I wish I was you.

I'm happy with where I am in life, but I also in mind having a Porsche GT3 RS.

That's awesome.

You know, you know, I'd like to be you for a month.

I don't know that I could handle it more than a month.

One month. Yeah.

Dad again, want to think ABC Six Action News outside of Philadelphia,

South Jersey, that whole area and DP saying they saw us on there yesterday.

I was an awesome moment.

If you guys don't have a connected with me on LinkedIn,

you know, please do just my name, Zach.

Chefs go really awesome to see this story go out yesterday.

And they just I mean, my dad said it was like an ad for us.

It kind of did feel like an ad for us.

It was awesome, man.

It was so awesome.

I don't know.

I'm guessing we didn't pay them to run this story, but literally this was

nothing but an ad and it was it was the best ad money could buy.

It does not pay for it.

Yeah. In that we didn't have to pay for it.

And they just and they just ran the story.

So bless them.

Thank thank you to everyone at Channel Six who made that happen in Philadelphia.

And I think it speaks not it's not.

But I want to be clear because it's it's earned media.

It's like a journalist made the story.

Like it's not an ad we didn't pay for it.

No, it's a great product and it's a great experience and it solves a real challenge.

And that's why I think it feels that way.

Well, and my whole point to all this was is that I think ultimately this will be

one of the things that drags the retail automotive industry into the 21st century.

It might be kicking and screaming.

But I think, you know,

one of our goals was to change the industry for the better.

And when we started this, I said to you, well, I'm never going to see it in my

lifetime, maybe in yours because you're a young man.

With the advent of this,

I pretty much can see it in my lifetime, I think.

Pretty cool, man.

Yeah, pretty cool.

Hey, from Matthew here, not me, a buddy.

Don't know Matthew, but OK, well, then give us your buddy's name.

And, you know, we'll we'll take on his identity for a month.

Works for me.

All right, folks, if we can help you out with anything, caredge.com.

Appreciate everyone tuning in and spend some time with us.

We'll be back tomorrow with another episode of Car Edge Live.

Enjoy the afternoon pops.

That's my plan here.

But well, you do the same young man.

I don't know.

Is it finally sunny in Washington because of that sunny here at the shore?

It's gorgeous. It's actually warm here today.

But yeah, it's supposed to be it's supposed to get up to seventy five here today

and eighty tomorrow and then back down to like seventy on Saturday.

But that's OK.

Well, you have you have a great afternoon, young man.

And and well, hell, I'll see you tomorrow.

We'll be back later. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks, everybody.

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Nissan WTF??? | Episode 927

Nissan Leaf

Nissan Arias

Nissan Rogue

Cadillac Optiq

Chevrolet Silverado EV

Jeep Cherokee

Jeep Wrangler

Kia Seltos

911 Porsche Gt3

Buick Century

About this episode

Original notes