Off-Road Adventures: Inside the All-Female Rebelle Rally and Understanding Diesel Exhaust Fluid
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Off-Road Adventures: Inside the All-Female Rebelle Rally and Understanding Diesel Exhaust Fluid
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Welcome to another In Wheel Time Podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am.
Central Podcast Channel.
Welcome to the In Wheel Time car talk show Coming up.
We're going to talk to Jill and Kristen about the Rebel rally, Conrad's got the In Wheel Time car clinic and we'll have this week's auto news all about the big strike with the UAW mainly up north.
Howdy, along with Mike out of this World, Mars King, Conrad DeLong.
We always need more.
Jeff Zekin.
I'm Don Armstrong.
Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday.
Going to be hot here in Houston today and it's just as hot on this car talk show Because we have joining us right now.
Jill Seminello and Kristen Shaw.
Rebel rally participants.
Good morning ladies.
How are you?
Good morning.
How are you doing?
Well, we're doing great.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
So before we get started here, let's talk about the Rebel rally and explain to everybody what it really is.
Yeah, you know I mean a lot of people will call it a race, but it's not really a race, it's more of a navigational challenge.
So essentially you start in one location this year we're starting in Mammoth, california, and you end in one location, which is usually the Glamis Dunes, down near the Mexican border.
So we cover about 1200 to 1500 miles of driving over eight days and they take away your phone.
They take away your GPS and your vehicle.
You're not allowed to ask for outside help and you have a map, a compass, a plotter and longitude, latitude points to get you from point A to point B.
Is this all female?
It is.
It is all female competition.
Some of the sports staff are men, but all of the competitors are women.
How many competitors are there?
Well, I know last year there were about 50 teams.
I feel like this year there might be more, maybe like 55 teams.
I'm not exactly sure how many teams.
Teams of two.
Teams of two.
Yeah, and what kind of cars I mean you drive, press cars or your own car?
How does that work?
You know, it's usually your own car.
Chris and I are sponsored by Hyundai, so they've given us a Hyundai Santa Cruz to drive and we've modified it, you know, adding a lift, we've added some rally lights, we've added skid plates, you know, things like that to make it a little bit more off-road worthy.
But most of the competitors out there are self-funded, which means that they are, you know, doing their own entry fees and they are paying their own way.
Got to buy your own gas.
Are there any Buy?
your own gas.
It's like $30,000 to compete in the event, because the registration fee itself is $15,000.
And then you've got all the travel, the hotels, the training, the supplies.
Are there any EVs in this?
Yes, how do they charge on the way I was going?
to say how does that work?
Do you pull a trailer with a diesel generator on the back of it?
No, Well, maybe actually what they do is they have some sponsors that will bring, like, essentially, a charging truck, and so, similar to bringing a fuel truck, which there's a fuel truck at base camp, every night the EVs will go and charge and the gasoline vehicles will go and fuel up, and then there are sometimes when we do long transfers, so we'll go 500 miles in
a day and there are specific gas stations that are charging stations that we are allowed to stop at Does everybody?
I'm sorry to interrupt, but does everybody leave at the same time?
Yes and no, you leave around the same time, but not at exactly the same time, so sometimes you draw a number out of a hat and it'll tell you the order in which you leave.
They usually send people out in about 10-minute increments, so that not everybody is going to the same place at the same time, and then oftentimes, though, your wave or your departure time is determined by how well you did the previous day, so if you end up leaving late, that is not a good thing.
Kristen, how did you get suckered into this?
It's Jill's fault.
I think everything is always my fault.
It's fine.
Yeah, I got it.
No, I totally understand.
No, seriously, how do you two know each other?
We've known each other for several years as automotive journalists and I really liked her.
As soon as I met her, and when she asked me if I wanted to do this with her, I said yes, I'd been thinking about it because I covered it as media in 2021.
And I thought, wow, this is crazy.
This is epic.
I don't know if I can do this.
So when Jill asked me, I thought it was worth a try and we had a great experience.
Do you all swap duties on?
One drive some segment and the other one does the navigation?
The other one reads the map.
We did that last year.
We swapped back and forth, each person had a day and this year I'm going to be the driver and Jill's going to be the navigator.
She wanted to take on that challenge.
So is all the navigation done with paper maps, because I know you can't use any electronic help.
That's correct.
We seal up our phones with like crime scene tape so we can't use them.
And they give us paper maps, just like the one that's behind me here in the video, and they give us latitude and longitude points and we have to plot those out.
So, they may also give us a bearing where we use our so it's tempting to use the nav in the vehicle.
That's disabled, can't do that.
They take it out.
Oh yeah, so Jill understands how to operate the origami of opening and closing that Texaco map I used to get back in the 60s right.
Exactly.
We hope so.
I don't want to break it or rip it or lose it.
That would be the goal.
Do they issue maps or you just have to go find your own map?
They issue the maps On the prologue day.
Essentially what they do is they have a one or a two hour.
They call it a training session, but during that time they kind of give you the notes for the rally in general and then they will give you all of your maps.
So if there's 12 maps for the rally, you get all 12 maps.
So typically what people do is you get your maps, you fold them neatly and then you let them number them and then they have little organizers.
Last year we did not have an organizer, this year we have an organizer, but they have organizers that you put them in so that when you need the map you know where it is and you can pull it out, and it's more difficult to lose it that way.
But every day when you get your longitude and latitude points, it'll say on your checkpoint sheet which maps you will be using for the day, sort of like a trapper keeper.
Yep, exactly, exactly, so you can put it without punching holes in it, because that would take up a lot of square foot.
So how do you become a winner on this?
I mean, is it timed and making sure that you hit all of your check?
How does that all work?
Yep, can I say it's designed for people to win that have had the experience, so it would be highly unlikely for a rookie to win, because there's so much that you have to know and collecting all these checkpoints each day.
Like they have green, blue and black.
Green might be worth 20 points, blues might be worth a little bit less and the blacks might be worth a little bit less than that.
The black ones are unmarked, so we get this little digital tracker device.
The green ones have a big flag, those are easy to see.
The blue might have a flag.
It might have a little pole in the ground, and the black ones we click the checker, the checkpoint thing.
When you think you're there and we say you think it's here, yeah, I got you.
How often do you get lost?
Every day, no comment.
I don't know.
I will totally comment every day, at least when I'm navigating.
We get lost every day.
But here's the thing it's like you're lost but you're never truly lost because you have a vague idea of where you're going to be like, where you are, and you do always have that tracker so you can click it and get your longitude, latitude points and then plot it on the map and you can be like oh, I thought it was over here but no, it's actually over here, and then you can kind of reroute, plan depending on where you actually are versus where you need to be.
Now, the one problem that we ran into a couple of times last year so we're driving a Hyundai Santa Cruz which probably only has nine or 10 inches of ground clearance it's not a lot and I would look out into the distance and I would see like a telephone pole or a power line.
It'd be like that is where we need to be, and then we just couldn't get there.
How do you get there right?
Yeah, because I mean it's not a straight line.
It's never a straight line and you know, okay, I have to go 46 degrees and I need to go 1.2
kilometers for 46 degrees.
But again, it's not just you know one straight 1.2
kilometers, and in the middle of all of this you know there could be sand dunes, there could be rocks, there could be a mountain, there could be like any number of things in that direction that you have to get around or get over to get to that telephone pole or you know power line, the landmark yeah.
There was one day, specifically, where I was like the power line is right there, I see it.
And we literally like went back and forth for two hours and I just couldn't find a way to get there.
And you know, one of the beautiful things about Rebell is it's a lot of women helping women.
And we finally ran across another couple teams, you know, one was in a Ram 1500 and the other was in a Jeep Wrangler, and I was like let's work, we're trying to go and we just can't figure out how to get there.
And the Ram was like we'll go first you follow us and then the Jeep will follow you, and then that way, if you get stuck, if you have a problem, you've got two of us to pull you out of it.
And I was like okay, I can manage that and we've managed to get out of it to get where we need to be.
So this is not just strictly an on-road kind of course thing that you, it's off-road as well.
Oh, it's pretty much 90% off-road 90% off-road.
Now, when you say starting in Mammoth, california, is that up there near Yosemite Park?
Okay?
We don't know yet.
Oh, okay, okay.
So we have a location for the hotel that we will be staying at, and it won't be until we get to the hotel that they tell us where our first base camp is.
Oh, so do you have to take your own camping gear.
We do.
We have a six-person tent.
There's a really funny video of Jill practicing first time how to put it up and take it down, because it's one of those that you have to twist and fold and she basically pounced on it to fold it back the first time.
But now we've got to figure out.
We've got our sleeping bag, pillows, everything we need to be self-sufficient.
Well, if she can do the map, she can do the tent.
Right, yeah, fold it.
Well, no, that's my job as the driver now.
I've got to put the tent away every day while she's plotting the map.
Just drag it behind you.
Yeah, tie it to the top, throw it on the top.
Fine.
Does everybody have their own method of camping?
I mean, you don't have one standard-sized tent that everybody has, huh.
No, some people like the one-person tent, so that each person has their own little cave.
Space yeah.
Yeah, for us it's just easier to share a tent and put everything together.
But everybody's got different kinds of tents and different methods, the way they camp, but we all end up in the same place camping together.
We're not camping out in the middle of nowhere by ourselves, gotcha.
Now, what do you do for bathroom breaks and food?
Well, bathroom breaks you go where you are, because there's no bathrooms out in the middle of the desert.
So we have this invention called the privacy sheet.
It's just a big king-size fitted sheet that hangs between our two doors.
And that makes a little little cove for us.
Yeah, well, it's a little bit different for girls than it is for guys, because all we need is a tree.
We don't even need a tree.
It doesn't make any difference, you don't even need a tree.
So what do you do?
What do you do for food?
I mean, you pack your own food or you stop at the 7-Eleven on the corner.
Everything tastes good when it sits on a writ.
Yeah, that's right, there's no 7-Eleven anywhere, sadly, but they feed us breakfast as we're getting ready for the day, as we're plotting our points, and then we bring our own lunch.
Might be snacks.
There's not a whole lot of time to sit and eat lunch, so it might be apple and a handful of corn nuts as you drive Lots of water.
Finger food that you can eat and drive if you need it.
And then I assume that when you get to the stopping point that night, that there's going to be food there for you.
Exactly, they actually have a Michelin chef hired.
It's not fancy food, but it's a good food.
It's better than a Goodyear chef.
Right yeah, food and liquor, and liquor.
So do you have a little nip every once in?
a while at the end of the evening.
No, never.
Never.
I mean some people do.
Some people do, but we did not Our treat.
We had a refrigerator last year in our truck, so our treat was like a cold sparkling water or cold coconut water at the end of the day.
God.
But that's good with vodka.
That's what I think Tito's.
Here I come.
I will say that one of the competitors brought us little bottles of fireball at the beginning last year.
Oh.
And they were like look at me the entire time.
And there were a couple of days where I was like damn it.
I need the fireball.
Break out the fireball.
Just that little hit of cinnamon, right?
So they give you longitude and latitude points that you have to hit to earn your green, blue, black flag, correct?
Is that what you're saying, correct?
And that's how you accumulate points.
Now, is there also a time to distance component of that?
Or is it just about accumulating points by hitting those uh, lange Lat, those marks, yup.
There is a time speed distance segment called an Enduro.
On every day, and that is you know.
It'll say for 1.8
kilometers, you're going to go 25 kilometers per hour.
Everything's in kilometers, by the way, so we've been wrapping our head around that for the last two years.
What, where did you place?
Last year we were.
We were probably in the bottom third overall.
Like I said but you finished, yeah we finished that, absolutely finished, and we were we did about, as well as most rookies do.
See, they'd say we finished, but ours would be six months later.
That's what we would do.
Now do you guys have any experience in off-roading or racing or any any kind of competitive things to do with an automobile?
I do not.
I mean other than so.
As automotive journalists you attend a lot of like driving programs.
You know Land Rover or Ford or whatever they will, a Jeep you know they'll have let's test the new Jeep Wrangler and we'll go out to Moab to do that and so a lot of experience driving in controlled environments with instructors and spotters and things like that and vehicles that are incredibly capable.
But I've never competed on a racetrack or in an off-road environment.
So this, this is a completely new thing where I have to look at the situation and be like all right, I think we can make it through that, I think it'll be fine.
Are you growing doing this?
Are you growing in any aspirations to do Dakar?
I'm not yet.
Because I think that's, that's even crazier than what you're doing now.
Do you have family members that follow you during this event or they like go to different stages or they meet you places?
They're not allowed to because if you talk to anyone outside of your competitors while you're on the road it could be considered cheating.
They could give you information.
Can't stop and ask directions.
Nobody on the side of the road holding up a, you know, a sign or something.
Nope.
No, no there is, there is a tracker so they can follow you online and see where you are.
Like the day that we were stuck in that wash and going back and forth and back and forth, our engineer for Hyundai was following us and he was like, yeah, there was this.
One day he's like I just couldn't figure out what you were trying to do and I was like, yeah, that would be us in the middle of a block.
Neither could we right.
Yeah, Are you guys broadcasting this stuff on for your followers or anything?
There is a live show that the rebel does every day.
They have people that host a show and they interview different competitors and they show where we are and they have drone footage and everything that.
The photography and video quality is unbelievable.
Kind of like our show.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Don't laugh too hard, Jill.
I mean, but you guys you got.
Are you guys considered influences or influencers, or just journalists, or both?
Journalists, journalists, Okay, and all of your competitors are journalists as well.
No.
Very few.
There's maybe one other set of.
Well, there's maybe two, two or three other journalists, I think.
Who are these other people?
Do you even know?
Yeah, we know, mina and Mara are from Hearst Corporation, so they're with the Road and Track and ones from Cosmopolitan.
And then Mercedes Lillianthol is a freelance writer.
Oh yeah, we know the Lillianthol Friend of the show, absolutely.
Yeah, but outside of the journalists, do you know any of the other people, and where are they from?
Oh, yes, Well, we know the ones that we've met through training and through last year, you know.
So repeat competitors will know them.
And we've got a group on Facebook where everybody kind of keeps touch and talks about different things they're working on or different tips.
So gotcha.
Are there any international players in this game?
I mean, does anybody come in from?
Europe or someplace.
Somebody came in from Canada and that was as international as it got last year.
There isn't any reason why they couldn't come in internationally, I mean, and there are women's competitions overseas, but I don't.
Last year I think Canada was as far as the international was.
And you said start to finish, you'll put on 1500 miles.
Is that correct?
I mean 1200 to 1500.
Yeah, I mean, we don't know.
And how many days will that take To eight days Eight or 12?
.
Eight, eight days.
So, Jill, you're in Chicago and Kristen where are you.
Austin Texas.
Oh, you're Austin.
Okay, very good, and let's see Kristen, instagram, facebook, tiktok, twitter, but you also have written for popular science, edmunds, motor One, forbes, road and Track, so you're well versed as well.
Love my job, love my life.
No doubt.
Well, listen, ladies, it's a pleasure to talk to you.
We wish you the best of luck.
Will you please keep us posted on your actual run in the Rebel Rally this year.
Absolutely, and you know, if anybody is curious, they can follow us on Instagram at teambrootsquad, and we will have a social media manager who will be posting things during the event of us and of the event itself.
So you know you can track us via the rebelrallycom website.
They tell you how to do that, but our Instagram teambrootsquad, or we use the hashtag we are thebrootsquad because that's our team name.
Well, jill and Kristen, it is great to talk to you guys and we wish you the best of luck.
Thank you so much for being with us today, and we'll be following.
Thank you.
Thank you, good luck, yeah, good luck to see it please.
Hey, we'd love to hear from you.
Just shoot us an email.
The address here is info at inwheeltimecom.
I'm now for Conrad's car clinic.
What are we talking about today?
Well, one of the other fluids in a vehicle is a diesel exhaust fluid and it's not the lubricator muffler.
You know, diesel exhaust fluid has been around since about 2014.
And what it's designed to do is reduce the amount of nitrates of oxygen in the exhaust of a diesel engine.
So this is actually a fluid that's sprayed into the exhaust system to act as a catalyst to knock the nitrates of oxygen down, which is a poisonous exhaust emission.
So that's what they're trying to do with it and it's basically death fluid is about 67% deionized water, which is more of a pure water, and about 32.
Put you at, put in your iron, yeah, well, ok, like a distilled water.
Death is an acronym of diesel exhaust fluid.
There you go.
Ok, I missed that.
And then 32% is urea, and that is the urea as a catalyst, and that mixture has to be pretty good.
Does that have anything to do with urine?
I don't know, I've never tried Don.
But well, no, I don't know.
I'm asking sincerely what is it Urea?
It's a liquid that's 32% of death fluid.
There you go, so scientific to know.
You could use regular water, but the problem with using tap water like washing a black car.
What happens if you don't dry off Spots?
So all of that mineral in there is going to cause problems inside your death fluid.
OK, I got you.
That's why they have to use a distilled, or what they call deionized water, because they don't want that corrosive.
But it's not corrosive, but it'll cause clogs It'll, clogs it up like a plaque.
It'll turn crystal on the injector sprayer and then all the injector sprayers start spraying on.
I understand that death fluid is expensive.
It's not outrageously expensive but it does have a shelf life.
And in Texas the shelf life is short because of the ambient temperature.
And they tell and I know this at the dealerships.
They tell the dealerships you want to store your death fluid in an air conditioned area and you want it up off the concrete floor because the concrete floor is going to change temperature greater so you want a little airflow around it because the death fluids, half life, the life of the fluids, cut in half every 30 days above 90 degrees.
And I'm thinking let's see, I've got a truck and it's got a four and a half gallon death tank on it and the death tank is made of that black plastic and my truck sits outside in the heat in Texas and it's 105 degrees.
How quickly does that diesel exhaust deteriorate Just sitting in your truck waiting to use?
Back in the day my dad would have distilled water for filling the battery.
And because of the corrosive Same reason because you don't want to introduce those minerals into a battery.
That's going to affect the performance of the battery.
Same thing with the death fluid that crystallization becomes quite an issue because and it can be quite expensive to replace your diesel exhaust fluid.
Now if you drive a diesel, you know what I'm talking about.
When you open up the gas cap and there's the green cap, that's where the diesel fluid goes, and then there's the blue cap and that's where the death fluid goes.
My issue is they shouldn't be next to each other.
They should be in two separate parts of the vehicle because every now and then somebody will put death in their diesel or diesel in their death.
And it's not like mixing chocolate in your peanut butter and peanut butter with your chocolate, which is good.
Death fluid and diesel fluid will destroy an injection system and diesel fluid in the death tank will destroy the death injection system.
And that can be, you know, five $6,000 on the death side of things.
That can be $10,000, $12,000 on the diesel side, and if it doesn't, I think, a death leopard would not get here.
I'm thinking death leopard, I was thinking death jam.
You know, you get the damn thing.
Okay, are you done yet?
So so again you know if you're buying death fluid, you want to buy fresh and you want to buy often.
I wonder how many of our listeners, viewers, actually have diesel engines that that use death fluid, if they've got one that was built after 2014,.
Pretty much all of them have death fluid on them.
You know Chrysler was the one who came to death fluid last.
Don't know why, but the Cummings didn't start with diesel exhaust fluid as early as the GMs and the Ford's did.
A design, but it's all but it's also the diesel.
exhaust fluid is not just in what I'll call the automotive diesel, the Duramax, the power stroke and the Cummins, it's also in the off-road stuff.
So you actually see death fluid that has to be used on caterpillars and and and Volvo.
Half they were built after 2014.
Big 2014.
They were built after 2014.
So you know, hey, well, look at my new caterpillar with the tracks on it it was.
It was built in 2013.
So I don't have to worry about it.
But my buddy over here, he bought himself a new one and he's got one of 2020.
It's running just fine.
And that death fluid it costs a lot of money after a while.
Well over time, it does cost.
It does cost money.
It's not cheap.
It's not not nearly as expensive as fuel is, and fuel, you know, fuel is such a volatile price.
Diesel, fuel, diesel.
Hey, quick break now and we'll be back.
After these messages.
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About this episode
Jill Seminello and Kristen Shaw share their experiences participating in the all-female Rebelle Rally, a challenging navigational event covering 1200-1500 miles through off-road terrain. They discuss the unique aspects of the rally, including the use of paper maps and compasses, the camaraderie among competitors, and the challenges of off-roading in modified vehicles. The episode also features a segment on diesel exhaust fluid (DEF), explaining its role in reducing emissions and the importance of proper handling and storage.
Original notes
This episode is all about off-roading and adventures! Meet Jill Ciminillo and Kristin Shaw, two brave hearts who weathered the all-female Rebel Rally in 2022 and are preparing for the 2023 event. They throw light on the thrill of navigating through this unique challenge. No GPS or cellphones, only paper maps and latitude-longitude points. We also touch on the event's format, the types of vehicles used, and how participants are self-funded. The adrenaline doesn't stop there. Get a backstage pass into the strategy behind off-roading, camping, handling food, and bathroom breaks during the Rally and maybe the aspiration to tackle the Dakar Rally.
But the episode isn't just about the thrill, it is also about the grit. Our guests provide a deep dive into the nitty-gritty of the Rally - from the points system and the time-speed-distance segment to the fascinating rule of determining the departure times based on the previous day's performance.
In the Car Clinic, we are talking about performance, ever wondered about Diesel Exhaust Fluid and its role in diesel engine cars? We unveil the crucial role it plays in reducing the amount of nitrates of oxygen in the exhaust and the importance of storing it right.
As we steer towards the end, we bring you a peek into the award-winning In Wheel Time Car Talk Show. From car reviews, Conrad's car clinic, This Week in Auto history to the latest automotive news headlines, we cover it all. And we're not just talking about it; we're living it every Saturday morning from 8 to 11, central, on InWheelTime.com, the iHeart app, and YouTube. So, buckle up and join us in these fascinating automotive conversations.
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In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show
In Wheel Time Podcast | Automotive talk with Don Armstrong, Michael Marrs, and Jeff Dziekan
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