Open Road on Third-Party Overreach, Five Star Chevrolet on Chevy EV Strategy | Daily Dealer Live
Car Dealership Guy Podcast
Open Road on Third-Party Overreach, Five Star Chevrolet on Chevy EV Strategy | Daily Dealer Live
Car Dealership Guy Podcast · Aug 22, 2025
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Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of the Daily Dealer Live.
Back with us today, co-hosting is the Yuli, D Martino Yuli, welcome back to the show.
What's up, guys?
Thanks so much.
What's up?
What's up?
What's up?
And for everyone, all of you are a loyal listening audience joining our live stream.
Remember, we're live across all CDG social media platforms you can share, you can post.
We want your comments, all of them.
Bring them in.
They'll help enrich today's show.
And speaking of the show, we've got a bunch of cool topics coming up today.
For example, what do we have?
We've got third-party lead sources and some potential overreach.
We'll have that first up in today's show.
We've got a bunch of really cool stuff.
Actually, this thing reverted back.
I have no idea why it reverted back.
We've got a bunch of great topics, so anyway, all of that and more, so make sure you
get on to the comments and we'll look forward to having a great show.
Let's dive into today's headlines, Yuli, shall we?
We've got some breaking stuff, absolutely.
All right.
So, hey, first up today, Fed Chair Jerome Powell moved markets up today with a simple
comment at a speech in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, hinting that current economic conditions,
quote, may warrant interest rate cuts as the Fed proceeds carefully.
Well, that's news all automotive has been waiting for for a long time and the
stock market seems to agree pricing the increased possibility of a rate decrease as
early as September.
In fact, I think you may see the Dow jumping in the thousand-point
increased territory and above.
So a heck of a lot of fun today as automotive waits for that long-awaited decision.
First up today, Jeep is reviving, get this, the Cherokee after nearly three years now
as a larger hybrid SUV positioned against Toyota's Rav4 and Honda's CR-V.
The 2026 Cherokee debuts Stellantis' first North America hybrid system offering 210 horsepower,
37 miles per gallon, and over 500 miles of range.
What's pricing look like on this Cherokee?
36,995.
That's slightly above a Rav4 hybrid, but well below a Highlander signaling a middle ground play.
Additionally, the Cherokee will be built in Mexico with engines from Michigan,
meaning it could face U.S. tariffs on non-domestic content.
What's the bottom line here?
Well, the Cherokee's return is critical for new CEO Antonio Filosa's turnaround plan
as Jeep has suffered six straight years of declining U.S. SUV sales,
with market share falling from 13% in 2015 to just 5.9% in 2024.
What do you think of this strategy, Julie?
Will this work alongside the rooftop wind turbines that Jeep's bringing out?
I think it's another bullet in the gun.
I don't know about the wind turbine ones, but my first car was a 93 Jeep Cherokee with that 4.0
high output, so pretty iconic.
It's a good-looking ride.
It does look a little bit like the old one, but it's a good-looking ride.
Next up today in news, most assume autonomous vehicles or self-driving cars will shrink
the auto insurance business by cutting down on accidents.
But Bank of America analysts argue insurers could actually benefit.
Today, drivers obviously take the blame when crashes happen.
But in a driverless world, that responsibility moves to who?
Automakers and tech firms, the people who design the cars and software.
Historically, liability coverage has been a money loser for insurance companies,
and offloading that risk to OEMs with deep pockets and tech companies
could remove a drag on profitability.
You see, even if autonomous vehicles reduce crash frequency,
the ones that do happen are costly, loaded with sensors, cameras, and advanced materials.
So insurers still have plenty of premium justification.
The takeaway here?
Well, if Bank of America is right, self-driving cars may not crush insurers.
They could turn them into steady fee collectors while the real financial exposure
shifts to automakers and tech players.
Fascinating insight from Bank of America.
As you think about it, I've always wondered in a driverless situation or in an autonomous
situation who takes out liability because the computer, the sensor, it makes a decision,
and in a no-win solution, it could be loss of life.
It could be physical impairment and somebody has to pay for that.
And those OEMs and tech companies have deep pockets.
Fascinating.
We'll check that out.
So next up, Hertz just teamed up with Amazon Autos to sell its retired rental fleet online,
starting in Dallas, Houston, LA, and Seattle with plans to expand to all 45 Hertz car sales locations.
For Amazon, it's the second big swing into auto retail after launching new car sales with Hyundai,
signaling a much deeper push into the car buying marketplace.
Shoppers can now browse, finance, and buy Hertz cars on Amazon the same way they'd
order electronics or furniture, then pick up at a local Hertz store.
Each vehicle comes with 115-point inspection, a 12-month, 12,000-mile warranty, and a 7-day,
250-mile return option.
And as far as dealers are concerned, Amazon may be able to match convenience at scale,
but personalized service and creative financing remain the edge traditional rooftops can use
to compete.
It's about the experience, it's not the transaction.
So interesting, yeah?
I agree.
This is very scary, though.
I mean, a new landscape is coming for sure.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
I was reading some of the social commentary out on a Cliff Banks who puts out the Banks report.
He's like, look, I don't know that it's completely new.
Like, Hertz uses multiple different distribution sources to get their inventory out in the
marketplace.
I think what is new is Amazon is actively looking for you, for dealers to add their
used inventory to their platform.
They could become a behemoth distribution platform.
But again, it's not an experience, it's not a value add, it's a transaction.
And as long as franchise dealers focus on the transaction and delivering above and beyond,
I think that's where the secret sauce lie, and also learning and understanding the
strength of Amazon.
So this is going to be a fun topic in the coming months.
We'd love to have somebody from Amazon Auto come on and talk about that.
We had them on the industry spotlight several months ago talking about their
beginning into Hyundai.
We'd love to catch up with them on the use side.
Call to Amazon Auto, come on the show.
Finally up today, August is shaping up as one of the hottest sales months of 25,
with new vehicle sales projected at 1.48 million units.
That's up more than 8% year over year, according to JD Power and Global Data.
Consumers are set to spend a record $54.6 billion on new cars, with average monthly
premium climbing to an all-time high of $743, and incentives remain somewhat light
at just over $3,100 per unit, or 6.2% of MSRP.
Meanwhile, lease returns are still scarce after the 22 production pullback,
leaving dealers without the usual flow of customers rolling into showrooms with trades.
And as for electric vehicle sales, sales are pacing to reach record market share,
as shoppers rush in before the federal $7,500 lease credit expires on September 30th.
That's coming up.
Looking ahead, August may be the last sugar high month of 2025.
The looming expiration of EV credits plus the timing of Labor Day weekend
inside August's reporting window are inflating the numbers.
Come Q4, the market will surely look very different.
And I'm not sure, just talking to other dealers about where everybody is this
month in August of 2025.
I'm not sure I would describe this month as a sugar high, but that could be.
That's a wrap on today's news this Friday, August 22nd.
A sugar high in a very niche market, obviously.
You know what? You're absolutely right.
Your experience may vary as some of the disclaimers out there are.
So, hey, just a quick word before we get to our first guest.
We get a lot of requests to join the show.
We want all the requests to come into one place.
Dealers, if you want to join the show, please visit cdgguest.com.
Fill out our intake form to be considered for a future spot.
We want everyone and anyone with a great opinion, with an insight,
and with a news item to come join us on the show and share it with all of Automotive.
This platform is what is awesome about Automotive in the United States of America,
because while we compete, we talked about this last episode with Ryan Rohrman,
we also collaborate and work well together unlike I think any other industry on the face of
planet Earth.
Steel, sharp and steel.
Is proof of it. Absolutely.
Hey, we even got the ring there. Very good.
And we got Nate. I'm loving Nate, our loyal viewer here.
Yeah, that's right. Bring it.
Yeah, so Nate says, Nate, the truck driver says,
we'll put a prayer in for Jeep.
Maybe the new Cherokee will help.
He also says Hertz better knows what they're doing.
They recently came out of bankruptcy a few years ago.
And then my Honda guy says, come see me if you're looking to get a new certified
pre-owned used leases.
Cool, cool advertisement going on there.
All right, first guest up today, President of Open Road Auto Group, Michael Moray.
Welcome to the show, Michael.
Oh, thank you, everybody.
Sam, Julie, thank you.
I'm a big fan of the show.
Thank you for having me today.
Thanks for being on.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives with us.
So before we get to the topic and the reason why you're here today,
we want to go with our signature question, which is,
how's business part of that?
Tell us a little bit about yourself and your auto group.
Well, yeah, look, I wouldn't say it's as robust as the report just echoed.
However, I agree.
You know, it is better.
You're seeing a little bit of urgency on what we have for electric cars right now.
You're seeing those last consumer rush.
I guess if you could say there's some seasonality or some forced sales.
People know that the $7,500 federal credit's going away and they're coming in.
We're seeing great movement there.
You know, as far as used cars,
we're definitely having one of our better months of the year.
It's been, I'm in the Northeast predominantly.
So open road auto group is 20 dealerships in the Northeast.
Mostly import brands, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, New York City, Volkswagen, Honda, Acura, Mazda,
as well as a couple of domestic.
We have Chevy and we have Cadillac, General Motors, 1,100 employees.
And again, we're really tri-state, mostly predominantly New Jersey and New York City.
Awesome.
Well, thanks for that insight.
Your geography is fine.
Well, great, great franchises too.
So you're on to talk about something interesting that happened to you recently.
Tell us a little bit about this situation that has developed with a lead provider.
Well, yeah, I love your platform because it gives dealers a chance to come in and
give a little dealer beware.
And I was so frustrated on Friday night.
And I really, I thank Michelle in your office for listening to me.
He's awesome.
She gave me an hour of therapy after I was done venting my frustration to her.
You know, I immediately called her after after my attorney and he said, sure,
go right ahead and let it let it rip because I've been fighting this battle for a decade from,
you know, when when Carfax would come in on holidays with their representatives and
decorate our trees and our showroom with Carfox stuffed animals.
And, you know, I would say, please kindly stop decorating, stop hanging Carfox post,
you know, posters all over our our showrooms.
You know, we give you $3,000 a month for the dignity of, you know,
having exposure and having vehicle history reports and being on your listings,
which is a great tool, by the way.
Yeah, you know, I'm not, you know, here to bash anybody's actual software or their tool.
They're viable.
They do ring sales.
Unfortunately, also compete for our intergranate search.
So that causes a bit of flux because when you really think about it,
all the dealers are ending up, you know, giving them the money to basically buy paid
search for pre-owned, which, you know, kicks us down the funnel quite a bit on the page for
the vehicles we're listing.
But, you know, the frustrating thing that happened last week was CarGurus,
who we've had a partnership with on and off for over 10 years.
In 2023, I exited almost every third party vendor contract.
We were cascading off the profits of the, you know, supernatural COVID, you know,
we could do no wrong.
I had a PhD in profitability.
It was fantastic.
And we were doing such a great job.
And then all of a sudden we were done again and we were starting to fall.
We looked at some of our contracts and, you know, our structures on the President of
Open Road Auto Group, we have five vice presidents that run four stores each.
And, you know, our VP's and I meet weekly.
And, you know, I keep a division for myself to run as well as a vice president
because I want to understand boots to the ground.
And it was a really interesting conversation.
And back then, what triggered our departure and reevaluation of our third party contracts was,
you know, a young lady came in from Carfax and basically said,
you know, you're the only store I haven't been able to sign up in your group.
I said, really?
Tell me more.
And told me all about, you know, this particular service that Carfax offered,
you know, Carfax for Life, which was basically to notify customers about recalls.
And I kind of looked at our product.
Yeah, it's a service notification product.
I'm worried.
I said, well, you know, with that said, it's solid product.
I said, but why would I pay you for that when really my OEMs do that?
And, you know, we do that.
And I just stared.
And I just realized that every other service manager in my company basically said,
yes, and nodded to a $1,100 upcharge on 20 stores.
It's $300,000 a year.
So I started to reevaluate all of our contracts.
And again, for decades, I've been saying there's got to be a
there's got to be a bottleneck when it comes to who makes that decision for signing.
And, you know, this is my caution to my fellow dealers is, look,
make sure that you control and micromanage your third party vendors,
because what you think you signed for three years ago for $2,100 per month
is now probably $3,800 a month.
And you're probably asking yourself, what the heck happened?
And that was pretty much us in December of 2023.
We re-signed up with everybody slowly.
Car brewers came right back to the table with a sort of a price adjustment for us.
And, you know, grateful.
It went really well and confirmed that any and all changes in price,
changes in services, updates to services would have to come through my office
and my office exclusively.
So fast forward to last week.
And why I'm probably here today is we found out last week in an email
that my five, five of our stores that weren't in my division,
ironically, there were in all the other divisions and had been chosen to do a pilot,
a beta test, if you will, for a new service, an enhanced pricing tool for car gurus.
And they said, well, that's interesting.
I said, and yeah, it's been running for 98.
Lucky them.
But how much does it cost?
Lucky them.
But how much does it cost?
Right?
Yeah.
Know what?
For the privilege.
They never got that far.
Oh, okay.
I was already saying, wait a minute.
You used so our BDC managers were involved.
We found out that all of our BDC managers were being, they'd been trained,
they'd been involved in it.
And I said, so you took my, you took my employees and you used them for your benefit
on a beta test for a product you're bringing to market.
Now you're walking it back to me to say, by the way,
we'd like you to sign up for it because we're going to make a deal for you.
They never got that far.
I basically proposed to them.
I said, look, you violated our, you know,
actually our sales in those five stores went down.
You violated our agreement, which I had emails back and forth that were acknowledged
by the, by the local reps.
And, you know, this changed our strategy going forward,
which I'll go through in a minute.
What we're doing to do the change this process for all third party vendors.
But for us, you know, we looked at this and said, you know,
this price strategy tool detracted from our typical business model.
And, you know, when you're looking, and sometimes when you're looking at
the market as a whole, especially for pre-owned,
it can create a downward funnel of price.
You know, if I'm looking at, if I'm looking at Yulie's,
if I'm a pre-owned manager and I'm over in Bridgewater, New Jersey,
and Yulie's over in, let's say, Edison, New Jersey,
and he's got, and he's got a Jeep Wrangler at a certain price,
and I look at his and say, well, I got to be $500 lower.
And you get that behavior with pre-owned managers, right?
But we all learned that, hey, look, no two pre-owned vehicles are the same.
There's different levels of condition, ownership,
multi-ownership versus just one owner.
There are different factors that create that car.
The truth is what we train our management team in our stores is, look,
the car stands on its own.
You own it, correct?
We watch MMR.
That's truly the only thing we look at for pricing is,
what will this car, we keep our inventory for 60 days.
At 60 days, we used to keep it after COVID strictly internal.
If it was a retail piece,
but even if this car needed a transmission,
we would do the work, but we'd always keep the retail piece.
It was too hard to source for a while.
And then Leasing came back and then we had a brief reintroduction of off-lease.
The off-lease for northeast anyways, robust up until the second and third quarter of 2025.
Obviously, we've seen that shrinkage from the whiplash effect of COVID come in,
and now we haven't had that off-lease sourcing.
So we've been very protective of what we've had.
But it's been hard to ignore with interest rates still being high.
Actually, pre-owned sales through the dealership have dropped quite a bit,
but the auction sale has been incredible.
We've been averaging over $1,600, $1,700 of the auction,
and we've taken a larger percentage.
We're on 180 to 200 cars every other week,
and we're averaging about $1,600 per car.
It has been incredibly robust.
We use that MMR report to say, well, what's our worst case scenario?
Well, you keep the car for 60 days and you have to get rid of it.
That's what we use when we're pricing a pre-owned vehicle
and when we're trading in it, when we're owning it.
And then so when we're pricing it to the street,
I'm really not worried about what the other dealers are doing.
Anyway, this pricing tool, I think, might have detracted our team
from our internal processes, which disturbed me.
And then to get back to where, again, they used our stores to test their products
and benefit themselves.
So my response to CarGurus was simply, look, for the 90 days that you tested us,
I want our money back for the group for our subscription.
And what was the response?
Well, although I wasn't, in the being a car dealership world
and understanding, hey, we're deal makers,
I also wanted the rest of the year absolutely for free.
They politely declined my offer and told me to basically,
and they understand it's September one, should they say, no,
this distrust relationship is now permanently ended.
I've terminated the relationship.
We're probably not going to seek legal action at this point
due to the nature of the complaint being, look,
I'm going to not spend all this money to chase.
It's not about money.
It's about principle.
It's about, you have a business, you have a dealership,
you have partnerships, and you also have, you enter into agreements with vendors,
but it's not a license for them to come in and camp out in your dealership
and turn their business into, turn your showroom into their business playground.
And it can't be that way.
My question was going to be just that, right?
You have this decree that everything's going to funnel through your office.
You're the decision maker for signing all contracts.
How then did this company come in and kind of nestle up and say,
hey, we're going to do this?
How are these decisions made without the oversight of the VPs there?
So their answer was, it's absolutely free.
So we're not violating any agreement because we didn't charge you.
No, but you benefit from this.
And that's where the violation comes in.
And again, am I seeking legal remedies?
No, at this point, you know what?
This was probably about a $600,000 account that's completely gone.
And yes, the best deals in life, you have to be willing to walk away from.
And we're gone.
And they can call other vendors that we've dealt with.
When we're gone, we're gone for good.
So it's interesting.
This really isn't just a, this isn't really commentary on that particular vendor.
That's it.
This is commentary on in automotive, we're surrounded by vendor partners,
people that have permission by us to walk into stores
and help us achieve and accomplish our goal.
And it's a fascinating masterclass on what is the line between help and hurt.
And there are a couple of things I noticed in what you said.
So I'd love for you to give our audience,
our auto dealer audience that's listening to this,
your takeaways after this experience because it's painful, right?
Like they provided a service for you.
They violated what you felt like was that obligation.
And now you've got to take action that may create additional challenges, right?
So it's interesting, where is that line?
Like I think you said at some point,
you said somebody came in and said,
well, hey, I've signed up all the other stores.
You're the only other one.
How do we get you signed up?
That's a little bit of a sales job.
Tell us about that.
And that's kind of how you uncovered it, right?
And how you started to dig in.
And that was a different vendor.
That wasn't, this wasn't cargo.
This was a different vendor.
And this was end of December of 2023.
And I just looked at this young lady and I said, I'm sorry.
What do you mean?
And now we have standard operating procedure guidebook in our company
that everybody from every management level has been instructed and signed off on
that says all third party, any services, any changes to services,
any, anything, you are not allowed to sign up for anything.
Everything comes through the office of the president of the company.
And, you know, this is, you know, how we do business.
We do micromanage that because if you left it wide open,
before you know it, you're going to be bogged down with incredible expenses.
So, and we communicate.
Listen, I'm a hands-on operator.
You know, I'm in the office every day, five days a week.
Our vice presidents and I work out of our corporate center in Bridgewater
every Thursday.
We're all together for these vendors.
Yeah, they can have a conversation with you and have that conversation,
right?
So what was the nature of the pilot that CarGurus did that created this result,
in your opinion?
They explained that the nature of this was a pricing tool.
They were there developing.
And apparently it's fully developed and they were just,
you know, test driving it so that they were going to use my own employees
to come to me and advocate for this tool.
That's a very foolish way to take on this approach.
For sure.
And in your opinion, what gave them the kind of the
impression that they could do that, that they could change your business operation that way?
Their justification is, well, this is absolutely for free.
But this is like, you know, those parents out there that have a young child,
this is kind of like when my daughter would come to me and say,
listen, dad, mom said I can have two friends sleep over tonight if it's okay with you.
And I said, well, okay.
And then my wife would say, did you just tell our daughter that you can have two
kids sleep over tonight on a school night?
And I said, no, well, she told me that you told me that she could do it.
And, you know, and that's sort of what this sort of scheme is almost about,
is like, well, they come in and they give it to your people for free.
And then they get your people to come to you and say, we must have this.
And it was just, you know, I'm like, no, we have to monitor our expenses.
We also have to look at what our sales are.
What's our available turn?
Have we been monitoring the turn in your stores?
Oh, by the way, we did look at the last 90 days in that store.
And you sold, on the average, five less units per store for those 90 days.
What's the answer to that?
Oh, well, that was because the market's been slowing.
We've been sending more cars to the auction.
And I said, what, that's preposterous.
So at the end of the day, what we did is we're entering into a new,
we're actually drawing up a new vendor agreement for all third party vendors.
It's going to be strict and it has to be signed,
not by the local area rep, but it's going to have to be signed by the regional manager
or the CEO to say, look, if you want to do business with our organization,
if you want to do business with our dealership,
you're going to have to sign an understanding letter that says,
any services, upgrades of any kind, even for free,
cannot be, any changes to our services have to be discussed
with the dealer principle with no exception to the rule
or the services are cancelable immediately.
So in a large dealer group, you've uncovered this
and you're taking actions to stop it.
What steps or advice would you give to other dealers
watching this show right now with multiple rooftops
that have multiple vendors?
Like, hey, how do you find this?
How do you uncover this?
And then I would presume part of your advice
would be part of this agreement.
But what's your advice to dealers today to limit this,
to prevent this from happening?
First thing, go back and look at every contract and say,
what did I sign up for?
How much was my rate?
And how much am I paying today?
Go back to your, if you have a payables clerk,
if you have a single point store,
sit with your office manager, your controller.
If you're in a group, get with your CFO,
review all these contracts, look at the scope of services.
Anybody tells you, well, it's got to be more money
because your Honda store does 5,000 cars a year
versus your Volkswagen store that does 800 cars a year
is usually, it's nonsense, the software is paid for.
Work your best deal and every deal that you do work.
Please understand you have to also manage the change factor.
They're going to come in and change this.
It's not a matter of what we've learned from COVID was,
we were doing so well at COVID that we got complacent.
We took our eye off the call for about 24 months
because the profits were supernatural.
And who could complain about those months between 2022 and 21, 22, 23.
And then as we started to see it, the tide pulled back out a little.
We noticed, hey, look, there's definitely some issues here.
Like I said, I wasn't even looking.
I just happened to be a heavy dealership on a Tuesday.
And Rep walks in and she said, oh my God, Mike Murrays,
I've been looking for you.
You're the only division in your company
that hasn't signed up for this particular service.
I said, that's interesting because nobody's allowed
to sign up for any service in our company
without my direct authority.
And so it's a program.
It's a look, everybody, even our vice presidents,
were like, I didn't sign up for this.
Who signed up for it?
We don't think that anybody was even offered it in certain.
And I can't accuse anybody.
I can only tell, look, to all the dealers out there,
go through your contracts, look at what you're paying today,
check and see if you've had a price increase since COVID
because I guarantee most have and haven't even gotten to it yet.
And then honestly, after COVID, right around December of 2023,
as we were starting to normalize,
we started to review and walk away.
Because believe me, in December of 2023,
the last thing you were going to get was sympathy or empathy
from a third-party vendor and why you need a price increase.
So the only thing that worked for us was actually walking away.
So and I agree with that.
It's interesting.
In our world, we see that.
We see the pricing creep on vendor services
and you've got to be just vigilant in watching it
and then pushing back and challenging it.
But let me also challenge what you're talking about
just a little bit.
So if you allow platform managers, VPs and GMs
to have accountability for processes in their store
and you want them to have P&L responsibility bottom line,
do you risk by locking it all up
and not allowing any kind of innovation?
Do you risk taking away the ability to find new
and interesting ways to deliver products
and services to the ground?
Could there be a freezing effect to locking it up too tightly
and not allowing vendor partners to come in?
I mean, they need to do it the right way.
That would be the big call here, I guess.
But what's your thought on that?
Because there is a balance.
Isn't there a little bit?
Yeah, Sam, you're right.
Listen, I'm not opposed to do innovations.
I'm all for it.
I just met with an incredible software company yesterday
that handles backstop calling.
And Andrew Paul and I, our vice president
for all of our BMW stores and I, we met at BMW of Marstown
with this young lady out of DC.
And her tool was fantastic.
It's basically transcribes voicemail messages,
puts it on a dashboard for our manager
so he could say, look, this has actually,
and they pick up word tracks that says,
like, this is fire.
This is a hot system.
Get on it and allows for that sort of,
so yeah, no, we're still looking at all new software
that helps us be better dealers
and deliver better customer service.
I am super open-minded to that.
But you got to walk through the front door.
Yeah, you've got to do it the right way.
You can't sneak it in.
And my gosh, changing a business system
of a large organization, the financial impact downside,
if it doesn't go well,
I don't want to be the person responsible
for that or liable for it.
So I love it.
DriveStar Auto says online 30-party vendors
must be looked after as they change
the prices for services.
Very often, Lauren Klein says,
a great dealer partner doesn't create problems.
They solve them.
And I think to your point, Mike,
they do it up front so that everybody can see it.
And then Daniel Gonzalez says,
hire managers who have the lights on
and don't just say yes to everything offered.
It is an interesting point.
Some people in the store take a shotgun approach,
I think, in automotive,
where it's like they'll buy every little shiny thing
and just see what sticks.
And what you're talking about
in terms of vendor management helps prevent that, right?
Because you have to say no a lot,
don't you, Mike, in your role?
Well, in our business,
we have to take it in with a wheelbarrow,
give it out with an eyedropper.
We also try to say to our people,
look, our model pays our management team on gross.
Okay, we want them to go out and raise
the earnings as high as they can.
And again, but if you give them every tool
to go do that and you give them
complete autonomy to sign on for every service
and they're not paid on net profit,
well, you're doing the business of disservice
because you're probably not entering
into the best deals.
What allows me to do something
that my other managers,
including our vice presidents, can't do
is I can leverage, I'm coming in with a 20 store buy.
A vice president's coming in with a four store purchase,
but I'm coming in with a 20 store purchase.
So I'm going to have the leverage
to make the best deal.
So what I've said to my team is,
look, I get paid the way you all do off net profit.
Let me help you help all of us
by giving me, if someone comes in
with a great idea and you're passionate about it,
I'll make time.
I'll come to the store, I'll come to the meeting.
Like I said, I'm not,
I'm as boots on the ground as you could probably ask for.
So I'll be there and I'll be there tomorrow.
Let's meet with them if they're still in town.
Have them come into our corporate office.
We meet every Thursday.
Let's innovate.
Let's get better.
We want to be better.
We chase volume.
We want to be the best at what we do
and we want the best tools for our people.
So no question.
But when it comes to locking in the price,
let me negotiate.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Does the OEM relationship fall into this a little bit?
Because the OEMs notoriously come in and do similar, right?
But they have a, they have a,
they have a, I guess they've got a dog in the race, right?
I'm going to tell you the best story.
I just got this yesterday about Volvo.
So, you know, my vice president,
Joe Bellotti calls me up and says,
Hey, you know, Volvo,
we're already signed on with my karma.
Full suite.
But Volvo's got a special service reception
service innovation package.
Yeah.
For all the dealers in the country, right?
All the dealers in the country.
And they're my karma price is $150 more than I negotiated
for our 20 store group.
How's that possible?
You know, and I just laughed like,
this is impossible that we have a,
we got a better deal than they did.
And I'm like, you know, so.
Or is there something a little extra in that
for them though is the question.
That might be the case.
I'm sure all we have partners,
you know, focused on just making,
you know, make their profit on selling cars
and service, you know,
and let us like,
let us make our best deals with these vendors
instead of they make their best deal with the vendors,
which by the way,
BMW has been notorious for this for years.
You know, so, you know,
how many times I've had to deal
with so many third party vendors
that have come in and like mastermind
and whatever and said,
well, I can give you that rate
for all your other stores,
but the BMW stores have to be up here.
But it applies to your co-op.
I'm like, yeah, what?
So we've had this move many times.
Which co-op could be a completely
separate conversation today,
which we, which unfortunately,
we don't have time for,
but Mike Marais,
president of open road auto group,
thank you for this masterclass
in vendor negotiation
in making sure that pricing is accurate
and that no new programs
are put in place without,
obviously our understanding,
I sincerely hope you get this issue resolved
and really thank you for helping all of us
that dealers see something
that potentially could be a big problem
and something that we see in our world
and I'm sure many others see.
So thanks for being on the show today, Mike.
Sam Uly, thank you so much.
And again, continued success on the show.
Thank you. We appreciate everything.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks, Mike.
Thanks for being here.
Thank you both.
Yeah, you know, I would love to say
I've never seen that before,
but man, I have seen that before.
Like, you know,
there is premium creep in vendor services
and it feels like you just constantly
have to be pushing it back down.
But, you know, the game at the field level of,
and you don't even have to point your finger
at one vendor or another in this case.
The game of, hey, everybody else signed up
when you need you to sign up.
Like, look, we're all good at selling
and most great vendors have ex-car people
that are in selling
and so they kind of learn the quickest path
to the close.
When if I'm working with open road
as an example, I'm going straight to Michael
and I'm going to have that tough conversation
and I'm going to sell him
or I'm not going to take my toys
and try to play around with his business.
When I play around with his business,
that brings liability on me,
my company, my product
and heaven help anybody
that tries to do that in our group
or anybody else's group.
So transition.
Oh, go ahead, Julie.
Go ahead.
No, I was going to say that's just
and that's just entering the right way.
This is another example of you just have
to keep your eye on the prize at all times
because even the vendors that do things
the right way,
we're all constantly iterating
and evolving the products, right?
But you need to make sure you're constantly testing it.
So along with price creep,
there could also be some products
that end up getting rolled out
by these third party vendors
that don't benefit your business.
So it's really important to not just,
you know, sign a contract
and assume that things are going to go great.
You got to be policing it every step of the way.
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So thanks to the Prime Dealer Equity Fund
for supporting today's show
and the content we have on today's show,
including that awesome masterclass
and vendor management negotiations
from open roads.
So next up today,
we go to General Manager of SAMPAC's
five-star Chevrolet, Allen Brown.
Allen, welcome to the show.
Hello, hello.
How is everybody today?
Doing good.
How are your vendor contracts today?
Are you reading this whole thing?
You need to go back and look at them?
I took a few notes from Michael here.
He's got it buttoned up pretty tight.
And I loved your comment about,
hey, great process,
but also be careful
that you're not boxing your people in from that point.
But hey, it sounds like they're meeting weekly.
And if they're doing that,
then they've got good forward progress with it.
It is a balance
because you want the GMs to be able to make decisions
that help increase and better the operation.
And I would have hoped in his case
that that rep is working with the GM
to create a better process
or test something or try something.
But you've got to understand the impact
and everybody's got to be aligned that it's okay
because it's not their business.
It's not the vendor's business.
But we have so many hands in our business pot
between OEMs and vendors
and all the other people trying to help us
for a fee, right?
To his point, everybody's feeling margin compression, right?
And his pay playing is geared towards gross
and I'm sure he's got great longevity on his teams.
And so you also have to be very cognizant
of the dollar spent.
Sometimes can't be a dollar in place.
Yeah, for sure.
Well, hey, let's go to the first question
that we always ask everyone, Allen.
How's biz?
And as you answer that,
tell everybody a little bit about yourself
and the auto group you work with.
Yeah, so I'm Allen Brown, obviously,
Sandpack Auto Group.
We have six stores here in Dallas,
four of the largest Ford stores in the country.
One of the largest Subaru stores in the country.
And then the Chevy store that operate here.
You know, I'm in the same market
with the number one Chevy store in the world classic
right down the street from us.
So obviously Chevy perspective,
there's a lot of competition.
And so, you know, over the last,
I would say 30 days or so,
because it's been hyper competitive
from a pricing strategy standpoint.
We've actually taken a step back
because a lot of our team is very long term
and paid from a gross perspective.
And we've kind of pulled back on being hyper competitive
on those negative growth fields.
And you know, we're holding the line okay
in a lot of ways.
We're very big in fleet,
very big in parts and service,
but from a new car perspective,
you know, we're focusing on experience
and gross right now.
And actually it's penciling up.
And you know, with my topics on EV,
that ought to be a fun conversation
where we mirror,
where we match gross
and in an EV conversation.
Well, let's go there.
Let's talk EV conversation.
Tell us about it.
Well, you know, I see the EV business,
obviously it's growing momentum.
We see it in every market.
In fact, I think Chevrolet was very pleased
to see that the North Texas market
has been performing at the pace
that we've performed at.
I think we have absolutely exceeded
their factory forecast from that regard.
You know, I think our only concern
from, you know, from my chair,
looking at things,
especially from a GM financial standpoint,
you know, what these cars look like
in 24 months when they come back.
And you know,
everybody's chasing a cell phone payment
on an EV Equinox
and they're obtaining it
in a competitive market,
you know, a 220 or 240 per month payment.
And so what does it look like
when those cars come back
and with that residual value
that's probably overinflated, right?
And then what does it look like
as a retailer for us
when we try to put Mr. Smith back
in an EV Equinox in 24 to 36 months?
Are we going to have a massive Delta
between the current payment
and the new payment?
And is that going to put the customer
in an adverse situation?
Is it going to put us in an adverse situation?
Yeah, how are you preparing for that?
As a GM dealer in August 25,
is there anything you can do
to prepare for that potential outcome?
Or do you just roll?
Well, you know, I mean,
obviously you don't want to take away
from the moment that we're having
with the customer,
especially someone that,
you know, Mr. Smith has never owned an EV before
and has his entire life.
You know, if you think about
what the dealer network
has really adapted
and overcame in the last 18 to 24 months
with charging system and infrastructure
and how to use the app.
And when you travel out of town,
you know, this is the app
is going to guide you and direct you
based on utilization of the car.
You know, there has been a lot
that's gone into this.
So I don't think anyone,
nor should we worry too much
with the client face to face
about what 24 or 36 months
into the future looks like.
But it is a concern with the colleagues
in and out of market
that I talked to the app stores.
You know, how are we really setting up
the EV market for the future?
So with you selling,
how many EVs do you sell a month currently?
Let's say on average, it's eight.
Eight, okay.
And then the rebate goes away
in September, end of September.
How are you prepared?
You know, do you expect
that demand to fall off?
Do you expect it to go away?
Do you think it'll right size?
Well, the leadership business side
of Val and Brown is we're selling
to the wall between now
in September 30th, right?
And I think a lot of our dealers
out there are the same mindset.
And then we've got to then see
where does not just Chevrolet
but all the manufacturers,
what do we do going forward?
October one forward.
You know, we all know that the manufacturers
are doing massive subsidy, right?
And in a lot of cases,
I think we would all agree
that they've taken away incentives
from ICE cars to prop up the EV market.
So when that leg drops,
you know, is there really that type
of resources to also tap into,
hold the line where we're at
and add to it?
I think that's our concern going forward.
Yeah, interesting.
So how are you doing with the used cars?
Sorry, with used cars, EVs,
we talk about it all the time.
You know, it's one of the backbones
of the car dealership, you know,
used cars and so many people
are averse to doing the EV thing.
And we see especially a lot of our Texas guys
are crushing it on the EV used car scene.
Are you leaning into that as well?
We've done very well.
You know, it's about the price point
and them qualifying for the used vehicle incentive,
$25,000 and below, if I remember that correctly.
So, you know, that's a very, very important driver.
But, you know, when you look at those cars
and you think about the client that first bought it,
imagine the haircut.
We know that we're doing well with that.
But, you know, Elon's figured out
how to sell everyone,
regardless of who they are.
They're selling everybody at Sticker, right?
And so, you know, we know where they bought that car
and 24, 36 months later,
we know what we, you know, acquired the car for.
And there's somebody that's taken a pretty big haircut.
For sure.
Yeah. So, hey, let's transition for a moment from EVs.
It is going to be what it is.
It's fast.
It's fascinating to understand,
I think for you and I to see,
you know, how are different dealers
kind of closing out this moment in time.
Like, there's a certain number of days
before this moment in time ends.
And I think part of what you're describing
is there's excitement around it
because there's an opportunity,
that cell phone payment.
I love that, by the way.
I'm stealing that.
We're going to start talking
about cell phone payments and EVs
until we can't anymore.
And that's what we do in automotive.
We capitalize on the moment.
But I want to talk about,
you recently were honored by Jint GM
for receiving the Financial Presidents Club Award.
And you have something that's called
a signature pep rally strategy.
And it's defined as an energized,
transparent monthly gathering
that celebrates team achievements.
What the heck is this?
And how does this help you sell
a heck of a lot of cars
month after month,
whether it's EVs, gas, whatever?
Well, you know, when you really
peel back the layers of any of us
that's been on the retail side
for a long time.
And you know, I started when I was 18 years old.
And now I'm 35 years in the business.
And you know, I looked back on that
and it was because I had really good mentors.
And you know, mentorship is about transparency.
And so when we go into the pep rally question
of the show, we're very big
on having a monthly pep rally.
We have the factory show up,
the financial arms show up,
you know, the accessory side of
general motors and everyone on our team.
So from Porter to general sales manager,
service manager, we're all in a big circle
if you can imagine.
And you know, if you want to read deeper on this,
we had an automotive news article
that actually came out and did
in a pep rally experience.
And at this point, yeah, and you know,
what was fun about this particular experience
was not planned.
But we had on the books,
the high school marching band
in our market, they were there.
So when you walked into the shop,
felt like you're walking into a high school football game.
The little hair on the back of your neck stands up.
And we literally go through birthdays,
anniversaries, top performers of the month.
We go through how we did as a team
against forecasts.
And I'm fully transparent with every number.
And then we talk about the new month
that we're walking into together
and we talk about what that forecast is.
So within this 20 minute window of time,
everybody walks away with love and appreciation, right?
They also walk away with an understanding
of we pushed you pretty hard last month
and how did that unfold for all of us?
And then what are we going to go after in the new month?
And if you look online or you read the article,
there's a huge blackjack wheel.
And this blackjack wheel, obviously,
if you hit blackjack and blackjack has four points on it,
you win $500 cash.
The other numbers pay anywhere from $100 and $250.
And we have about well different categories
of employees of the month.
So if I personally, for a moment,
as we talk through this, reflect back,
what kept me in the business?
It was great mentors that recognized my performance
at key moments of time that kept me hooked up in the deal, right?
I'm excited about growing my own way
of approaching the auto industry
and developing in that piece of it.
And so the history of the store,
the first five years of ownership, it failed.
It had a lot of trials and tribulations.
In the last five years, we've been voted
top 100 best places to work
and have the lowest turnover in our automotive group
and our automotive group has very low turnover.
So it was a very, very tough bar to achieve.
But we've done that through hiring good people,
putting the right people on the bus,
and then equipping and encouraging and training
and being alongside of them with good solid communication.
And that's what our pep rally does for us.
So Alan, you've given us a lot of different things.
So I want to pull on a bunch of threads,
almost kind of rapid fire style.
So first of all, you said one of the results of this
is lowest turnover in the group.
What's the turnover?
How do you measure that just kind of briefly?
I believe last year it was 7%.
So yeah, that's all aspects of the store.
And what day of the month are you typically doing
this pep rally?
Is it the beginning of the month?
First of all, the early of the new month.
Okay. And how long is it?
How long do you do it?
20 minutes.
20 minutes.
20 minutes.
How do you get a marching band in in 20 minutes, Alan?
They're marching.
Yeah, they got here about 30 minutes before.
You know, it's pretty easy to toss up between the Mariachi band
or the high school marching band, right?
You don't hear them comment as they're crossing
through the dealership.
And what's your way of recognizing?
Like, when you talk about your recognizing people
and you're like, what is the method
during that meeting to doing that?
So let me walk you through it.
We'll start with birthdays and anniversaries.
And the milestones of a birthday.
And then we go into the milestones of 10 year.
And when you're celebrating someone that was with us
even before the buy sale that took place,
you know, almost 12 years ago, 11 years ago.
So we get a chance to really recognize that
and see that and celebrate that.
And then the milestones of the obvious,
salesman of the month, tech of the month,
parts person of the month, support person of the month.
Business office person of the month.
But here it is, I want to give you some insight
because this thing, if you allow the voice
of the employee to come up through it,
you will uncover some amazing moments.
So we had our techs challenge us about
two and a half years ago and said, hey,
the one or two techs in the shop out of 14,
15 techs are winning it every single month.
And a lot of our shops have that
for one reason or another, right?
And so they said, we'd like to create a category
where we vote on ourselves and have a tech
attitude, production, tech of the month, right?
I love that, I love that.
That's awesome.
Yeah, and so here it is real quick.
The techs, our human resources created
an online survey that was a blind survey
nobody could see.
And they got to survey each other.
And they got to write comments blindly.
And I will tell you when you read them out,
it'll almost bring tears to your eyes when you get to say,
hey, tech A is being honored.
But before I tell you tech A's name,
here's everything every other technician said about you.
Clean, strong, great attitude, always on time,
willingness to help, right?
And you go over those 10 or 12 beautiful comments
and you announce their name.
And what's cool about this,
we might have people on our team
that have never been recognized publicly
among 70 or 80 people in their entire life.
And I've had people bring their wives
knowing they were getting recognized
because they were salesmen of the month.
I had just this last pepper off.
I had a mother flying from Florida
because her son was salesman of the month.
So can I tell you something, Allen?
Recognition like that isn't just a nice to have.
It's a need to have an automotive today.
And it's the difference what you're doing
in your auto group.
And we do a similar.
I'm going to learn from you.
We may implement a part of it.
It connects the individual's efforts,
however visible or invisible, invisible,
with the purpose of the organization.
And it drives purpose into their life and their work.
And I think a basic human right in automotive
and in any industry in today
is to know that as we invest our time,
we're doing it towards something bigger
and greater than ourselves.
And you're doing that by highlighting something
in a way that it brings in family
and it brings in other people for that recognition.
Technicians, parts people, they don't usually get that.
So I just think it's awesome
that you guys are doing that.
And Allen Brown, thank you for being on today.
General Manager, Sam Pack, 5-Star Chevrolet
for sharing this awesome process with us, Pepp Raleigh,
and a little bit on your EV strategy, Allen.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks, Allen.
The producers are, you know, I got to tell you,
we do something similar at Ziggler Auto Group.
So we have something called a diamond drop.
And when some people first come into the group,
they're like, wait, what is this?
And it's basically just a recognition.
It's a thank you from one employee to the next.
And at the beginning of our version of a Pepp Raleigh,
we read through these.
And I've seen people tear up at the thought of it
because they're getting recognized in a time and place
when they're usually not.
So all right, let's transition over to Anna Delvolar,
our head of editorial content.
Now, Anna, welcome to the show.
And you know what's crazy?
You know what's crazy is we end up on such a time crunch
because we have so much content packed in this a little time.
Anna, you've been watching the buy-sell market like a hawk
with Q2 data now officially out.
There's some key trends emerging, Anna.
Tell us about those trends.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's going to be back guys.
And this week, I got to have kind of an early sneak peek
at the car dealership guy podcast episode with Allen Haig,
Mergers and Acquisitions expert.
It was so good.
Yes.
And what he had to say was super eye-opening,
kind of mind-blowing.
And I just want to dive in.
And he mentioned that public dealership groups are pulling back,
brands are fluctuating in value,
and there's a cohort of dealers
who made big bets during the pandemic
that are now kind of biding back.
I shared some of those signals that Allen gave me
with some acquisitive dealers.
And they kind of agreed that the buy-sell market
is kind of nearing a turning point.
First, public companies acquired just 13 rooftops
through the first half of 2025.
That's compared to 22 stores during the same time last year.
It's a 41% decline.
Meanwhile, private buyers picked up 179 stores
and actually increased their activity.
And that's because many sellers are still anchored to 2022-2023 valuations
and when the bid-ask spread gets too wide,
as it has this year, public companies walk
and opt for buy-backs and other things.
But private dealers are much more flexible,
much more tolerant of risk,
and they don't need to justify acquisition premiums
to shareholders.
Private dealers still have conviction and urgency,
especially when the right store opens up.
But this isn't just about who's buying,
it's also about what they're buying.
Take Audi, for example.
The brand just saw the steepest valuation cut
Hague Partners has ever recorded.
The chief reason being that Audi doesn't produce any vehicles in the U.S.,
which makes them one of the most exposed brands in today's trade environment.
Allen told me a story about a buyer who was locked into a deal
with two premium stores and an Audi rooftop,
and when tariffs came up, the buyer nearly backed out of the whole deal.
But brands like Toyota, Hyundai, and Kia all saw valuation bumps
primarily based on their strong product lineups.
But here's the kicker.
I've spoken with multiple dealers who are buying distress stores
for millions less than what the sellers paid for them just two or three years ago.
One dealer buyer told me he's acquiring a store
for around $13 million less than the seller bought it for in 2022.
And another store acquired previously for over $15 million,
lost $4 million in the seven months that the owner had it.
So they decided to throw in the towel.
We don't really have any hard data to back up this trend or anything,
but I've had several anecdotes from dealers
and it just doesn't seem to be isolated incidents.
And if this cohort of motivated sellers rather grows larger,
the number of dealerships available to buy will tick up
and likely pave the way for further consolidation.
Ultimately time will tell how all of this plays out,
but these are the trends we are keeping a super close eye on.
Anna, thanks for the feedback.
And by the way, it reminds me an automotive, the golden rule.
Buy low, sell high.
Don't buy high, sell low.
And it seems like you're starting to see the converse trend of that.
Anna, thanks for sharing the perspective of the story.
We're going to be excited to have you back next episode for the next story.
We love what your team and you and your team bring to the show when you're on.
So thanks, Anna, for being on.
Thanks, Anna.
Thanks, guys.
Lots of great comments today.
So Jason Pittick says,
Alan is a natural culture builder,
one of the most humble and genuine GMs out there.
Recognition is a dying art these days.
I love that.
It's fascinating because I think in automotive,
some people are afraid to recognize because they think,
hey, if I recognize too much, people will get ego and then they'll be uncourageable.
What he knows and a lot of us forget is there are so many roles,
so many faces inside automotive that don't get that recognition.
This is core.
You've got to do it.
And Jason also says no one wants to leave and everyone wants to join places like that.
Nate, the truck driver says,
fun fact, I served in my high school marching band.
We've got a 20-minute gig for you if you want.
Perfect.
And then Dan C, props to the producers of the show here.
The producer of CDG must not be an easy job.
Action, packed agendas.
Wait, what about us?
I want some.
I get all these little notes scrolling across the screen.
We get the applause.
That's fantastic.
I love it.
So launch live now.
We love what they bring to us every single week here.
So Julie, great show.
We're looking forward to Monday.
Excellent.
Right back at it.
So to our audience, our listening audience out there,
thanks for watching The Daily Dealer Live today,
where we break down the biggest moves in the car business as they happen.
Don't forget, we're here live every Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
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And everybody, we'll see you next episode.
See you guys.
About this episode
A lively discussion on the evolving automotive landscape, focusing on third-party vendor overreach and the implications for dealerships. Michael Moray from Open Road Auto Group shares his frustrations with vendor practices, emphasizing the need for strict oversight and control over contracts. The episode also features insights on the return of the Jeep Cherokee and the impact of autonomous vehicles on insurance. Allen Brown from Five Star Chevrolet discusses the challenges and strategies surrounding electric vehicle sales, especially with the impending expiration of federal incentives. The episode is packed with valuable lessons on vendor management and dealership operations.
Original notes
Today's show features:
Michael Morais, President of Open Road Auto Group
Alan Brown, General Manager of Sam Pack's Five Star Chevrolet
This episode is brought to you by:
Prime Dealer Equity Fund - Prime Dealer Equity Fund is providing a limited number of accredited investors with $100,000 or more the rare opportunity to invest directly into franchised auto dealerships; the offering can only be made via the Private Placement Memorandum under Regulation 506(c). Led by seasoned operators with deep experience in both dealership operations and fund management, the fund is designed to deliver consistent cash flow and long-term capital appreciation. f you’re looking to diversify into this asset class—this is your chance. Check out https://primedealerfund.com/CDG/ to learn more.
Disclaimer: This is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy securities. Any investment can only be made through the official Private Placement Memorandum and only by verified accredited investors. Nothing stated here should be considered investment advice.
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