Orphan Cars

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Welcome to Car Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works.

Hi and welcome to Car Stuff. I'm your host Scott Benjamin.

And today I've got a topic that I know we have just touched on in the past.

I've covered this on Car Stuff and it might have been even a nuts and bolts episode or something like that.

We spent just a few minutes on it, but today I would like to spend a little bit more time talking about this topic.

And I think it's one of interest and probably one that a lot of people can relate to in that more and more cars are becoming orphan cars.

We're going to talk about orphan cars today.

And what that means exactly.

And what is what isn't an orphan car.

What's the difference between like an abandoned make within a brand I guess?

It gets a little bit tricky this definition of what makes an orphan car an orphan car.

Well, we can even talk about a car show that's of interest for people that have orphan cars.

And talk about some of these older defunct automobile manufacturers from the United States that are now I guess,

well, these are all the dead parent companies that have left behind these orphan cars that people collect and want.

And sometimes come together and show off in certain cases like in the car show that we're going to talk about.

Now, I know it's a little bit cold to talk about this, but this is where the term comes from.

And this is a, I mean, it's the similar situation, not nearly as tragic, of course.

But an orphan is when a child who's parents are dead.

And I guess the case here is that with an orphan car is that the parent company, the parent company that built the vehicle is also dead.

It's defunct. It's gone away.

There's no parent company left behind.

And this gets a little bit tricky.

There's some, I guess, a way to weasel word the description of what makes an orphan car an orphan car to fit for different brands or makes that you've heard of in the past.

And some that you might think are orphan cars that aren't necessarily orphan cars.

Or there's a, I don't know, just a little bit of a variation in the definition.

And we'll talk about that, too, because there's a great article that I'm going to kind of follow along with here that is called,

what is an isn't an orphan car.

And it was written by a guy named Gerald over at Old Cars Weekly.

And this is from a couple of years ago, but the information doesn't really change in this.

So it doesn't matter if it's a few years old.

But it is of interest to me because this goes into some of the cars that you might think are orphan cars, but really aren't.

So I found this fascinating when I was reading this.

So the article starts off with Acme, Auburn, Briscoe, Bantam, Cole, and Chandler.

I just a few of the ABCs of notable cars considered orphaned in America's automotive history.

And he's right, he's right.

He says figures differ, but most historians agree that about 2000 or more makes of cars and trucks

came onto the scene only to eclipse and fade into memory.

So in other words, 2000 makes of automobiles have been made here in the United States.

Now really when you think about people that are still making cars, still building cars, they're just aren't that many.

I mean, there's more now than there were in the past.

We've got Tesla making cars now.

We've got other manufacturers that are coming out that are making automobiles that weren't even 10, 15 years ago.

But if you look at the list of, and I encourage all of you to do this, go on Wikipedia.

You can go to find a list of defunct automobile manufacturers just from the United States.

And they list them alphabetically.

I mean, just the A's alone.

It's three columns long.

There must be 100 car companies that start with the letter A alone that have gone out of business.

And you know, some of them were only around for years, some of them were around for a decade or so.

But most of them were really, really quick, just flashing the pan type company that's gone right away.

But if you go through the whole thing 2000, I don't know if they're 2000 listed here, but I think that's the general consensus.

The general idea is that there were somewhere around 2000 automobile manufacturers at some point in US history making cars.

So really, I mean, when you think about this with 2000 automobile manufacturers going bankrupt or just going out of business in general,

orphan cars really aren't that rare.

If you want to look at it that way, if you're looking at a historical make.

Now, they are rare in that a lot of them are at this point 110 years old or whatever.

They might not be around. There might not even be any existing vehicles left anymore.

In that case, you know, some of these manufacturers that only made one or two or half a dozen cars at the most and then they're out of business.

You're not going to find those cars around. They're completely gone or in museums somewhere.

But the truth is that being an orphan car is kind of the normal situation.

It's not really the exception in a lot of cases. Now, if you go to dealership and you pick up the latest Toyota camera or something that's not going to be an orphan car anytime soon,

because I think Toyota is going to be around for a long, long time, as well as General Motors is going to be around for a long, long time.

And you know, Chevrolet is going to be around, etc.

So you can kind of understand, you know, some of these companies that have been in existence for a long, long time for 100 years or more in some cases,

the chances are your car is not going to be an orphan car anytime in the near future.

But if you do pick up one of these cars that like, gosh, one that I'm going to mention here that I know is not an orphan car,

but it's a sell. We'll talk about a sell. But if you if you own a sell, there's kind of a tricky thing that's happening with that one.

I don't know if it can be considered an orphan car. We'll talk about that when we get to it here.

But going down the list, I mean, I've told you the A's are huge, but there's like the AIMS company.

There's the anchor, buggy and carriage company. I'm just going to scroll down. You might hear me scrolling here, but there's the club car.

There's the centaur. Some of these names are kind of funny. There's the Eastman car. There's the Edwards night car.

I mean, you can go down the list and find some of these just really obscure car companies, the Nance car company, Napier Motor car company of North America.

You can find the Napoleon car. It was only built for three years. There's all sorts of cars. If you go through this list, all the way down to Z,

where you get two car companies like the Zair and the Zent and the Zent Mobile and the Zimmer Motor cars.

Even X has an entry. There's the Zander, which was a car company that went out of business in 1902. It was only around for one year.

1901 to 1902. There's just a huge long list of these cars. And again, they're all makers now of orphan cars.

These cars that have been left behind. So think about cars that we've talked about in the past on the show.

I mean, we talked about Tucker. We talked about, oh gosh, even Saturn. But you know what, Saturn is another tricky one.

We'll talk about that too. Gosh, all right. I feel like I'm kind of given some of this away already now that I've kind of mentioned a few of these cars that don't necessarily fit the strict definition of an orphan car.

And the reason is that the company itself was then, you know, it was purchased by another company that is still making the car.

So I can think of a couple of examples of this red top of my head. The Sal is one. We've already mentioned the Sal, right?

So the Sal is gone. But the parent company of the Sal was Cadillac. So you can't realistically call a Sal and orphan car even though according to most people that would be an orphan car.

Because the Sal isn't still building cars, but the parent company Cadillac is still building cars. And they probably will be for a long, long time.

So that's one of those like tricky definition, you know, it's kind of the, like I said, a way to weasel around calling something that it either it is or it isn't an orphan car.

Think about Saturn. Saturn is another car. That's a whole brand that was around for a cash. I don't even know how long Saturn was around.

I could probably look it up here on my list as we're talking, but does Saturn no longer exist? The cars are no longer being built. But the parent company was General Motors.

And General Motors is very much still building cars, obviously. So that's another one. Now think about brands that have gone away even in the most recent, you know, like maybe within the last decade or two, we're talking about things like Plymouth.

I wouldn't call any Plymouth car an orphan car. Although Plymouth doesn't build cars anymore. The division is no longer around. And of course, Chrysler became part of the Fiat group. And you know, that whole thing.

There's another whole story there that we go into another full episode if we wanted to. But we probably will at some point. Think about Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Those are brands that were made by General Motors that are no longer around. So those are some that have gone away.

But I wouldn't call an Oldsmobile or a Pontiac an orphan car. Not yet anyway. I mean, not until General Motors goes away. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

So I don't know. You know, you understand that companies like Tucker, Tucker made automobiles for a very short time. They made, I think it was only it was less than 50 or something like that. I can't remember the number.

We did a whole show on Tucker as well. You can check that out in our archives at carstuffshow.com. If you want to find our episode on the Tucker, you know, I think our Tucker episode was like a three-parter. So we had a lot to say about Tucker.

A lot of good stuff, some bad stuff as well, but check it out. But Tucker was never picked up by another company. No one bought the rights to make Tucker or kept the Tucker brand around. So absolutely Tucker cars are orphan cars.

And there's a whole long list of cars that do fit a very strict definition. But again, there's this kind of like there's wiggle room on either end of that definition based on what happened to the parent company.

Another good one that I can think of just again, top of my head, MG, the MG automobile. They've had something like nine owners over the past several years, over the past decades, I should say.

And I think the current company I want to say is called something like Nanjing Automobile Group. Now, MG's are not still being produced as far as I know, but I do believe that the Nanjing Automobile Company or Automobile Group is still producing vehicles.

So technically, MG is not an orphan car, even though you might consider it an orphan car because again, MG's not actually producing cars itself anymore.

These are all just a few examples of car companies that have come and gone, but are still around in some way, either the parent company just owns the name, the rights to the name. If they want to bring that brand back, they can. But in most cases, they'll just kind of let it die out and let it live on in history only.

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Alright, so, you know, get him back to this article. It's a good article. It's called What Is And Isn't An Orphan Car.

And again, it's written in oldcarsweekly.com by Gerald P. I mean, I'm going to try to pronounce Gerald's last name, but Gerald P from August 10th of 2009.

And um, I just couldn't go through what hobbyist, I guess. You know, people that are really into cars consider the strict definition of this, the wiggle way around it a little bit.

It goes through a couple of cases that I found interesting. One case in particular was the Packard and Piercero. That's a good example.

But he says that these are considered orphan car makes both the Packard and the Piercero.

But the makes were in full production right up until the time that each operation was stopped, and that's critical as well.

So they made cars right up until the very last minute, and then they stopped making the vehicle altogether.

But Packard's case, he says that it was an unwise purchase of studa bigger, really, which was like more of a merger than anything else.

That resulted in Packard and Clipper cars being manufactured in what became a branch of the new corporation by around 1954.

So Packards were made in 1955 and 1956 as full luxury cars with Clippers kind of being like the medium price entries in the whole makin' model, you know, of that new company, the merger company.

But in 1957, after the Detroit operations ceased, and then the Packard factory was kind of scrapped, production was consolidated in South Bend, Indiana.

And what happened was there was a modest number of 1957 Packard Clippers that were made just to kind of like appease some of these contracts that were supposed to be going to these dealers, you know, the supply to the dealers.

So in 1958, officials offered only a Packard range alongside studa beggars, and the Detroit mark was no more after that point.

So after 1958, Packards had kind of gone away.

You know, I want to mention one more thing here is that those 1958 Packards and studa beggars were built strictly because they felt that maybe easier to face these legal bells over the broken contracts than it was to produce a brand that was kind of like not up to par with what the former glory of the brand was.

So to make them in small numbers like that was just no longer possible, and they just decided to end it right there.

Kind of makes sense. Now, another one that we think about of being an orphan car, another one that is brought up in this article is the Nash, the Nash automobile.

And it's good question is the Nash truly an orphan car because Nash, I believe, was sold, well, I guess the name plate was sold through its parent company, which was American Motors.

And American Motors carried on through, I believe, was 1987, and at that time it was sold to Chrysler Corporation.

Chrysler Corporation, of course, still sells automobiles now they're fiat. So I mean, that's the whole fiat Chrysler thing.

So is the Nash considered a true orphan car? A lot of people would say that it is because American Motors isn't still producing vehicles. Nash is of course not producing cars, but Chrysler Corporation is through fiat.

So this article just gives me a whole bunch of ammunition, a whole bunch of material to think about, a whole new list of things to consider when you're talking about orphan cars.

Another one that they bring up here, of course, we talked about this already, the LaSalle parent company still exists, which was Cadillac.

Considering if you want to go by the strictest form of the definition, LaSalle is not an orphan car, nor would be the Nash, nor would be the Saturn, nor would be, you know, a lot of other companies.

Even the whole Plymouth brand, or the Oldsmobile brand, or Pontiac brand, none of those would be.

So let's look at this from a different perspective then. So there's all different levels of what this author calls orphanism.

Now, orphanism, if you want to look at it in a less strict manner, you could say that let's say you bought a making model a car that is no longer offered by that manufacturer, or they changed everything about it.

There's an all new model for the next year. Is the car that you bought an orphan car because they no longer really make new parts for it anymore?

They're not selling it at the dealership. It's going to have unique trim pieces and things like that that the newer models aren't going to have.

So does this definition, like a looser definition of an orphan car, apply to cars that are made just prior to when they change everything.

So like it's an all new Ford Mustang, or it's an all new Chevrolet Corvette, or whatever it is, is the previous model considered an orphan.

Some people say, yeah, it's kind of that way, I guess, but I don't see it that way.

The manufacturers are still going to have parts on hand for things like that. I think it's not going to be a situation where they're shutting down the factory, and they're never going to make another part for that car.

Although that does happen eventually to just about every car. It's harder and harder to get parts.

I understand that the farther away you get from your model year, but you can take this definition and kind of mold it into whatever you want.

I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that the parent car company is no longer around.

It could just mean that it's tougher to get parts for. It's tougher to get service for that vehicle or whatever.

I mean, it seems like there's just a, I don't know, there's a wide range of ways to look at this topic.

And I don't cause a lot of confusion, I understand. So even the author of this article points out that it's very confusing.

There's a lot of different concepts that play here and a lot of different definitions. And whether you go by the strict definition or you have more kind of a loosey goosey definition of what is and what isn't an orphan car.

So the question that he poses here are Nash and Hudson really orphans. And generally, as he says, they are accepted as such and have been for years.

But these are brands that were just simply abandoned by their parent company. It wasn't that the parent company wasn't around anymore. The parent company went away.

It's not like, you know, a Packard situation where Packard just went away. And they, you know, they stopped making cars altogether. You know, just drop of a hat it was done. It was over.

These are just brands that the parent company decided to stop making anymore. The parent companies are still selling cars. They're still around.

But mentions here that there's talk about older monarchers like Rambler and Hudson and even Nash itself. But Hudson was brought in under the wing of Nash to form American Motors.

And a lot of people might consider that the Hudson, I believe, would be a stronger candidate for true or from status. But they scrapped the body styling on the Hudson for the shared bodies with Nash.

And even some of the engines from Packard into the new organization until they had kind of a better idea of what the future was going to hold for that.

I don't know. There's a big gray area here with all of these car companies. And when they stop producing something, what is considered an orphan car, what's not considered an orphan car?

And I guess if you do go by that strict definition of the parent company being gone or being dead, being, you know, defunct, then it seems like, well, there's still thousands of makes and models out there that are considered orphan cars.

But if you're an orphan car show, you would expect to see cars that are truly orphan cars. And there are orphan car shows out there.

And I want to talk about that in just a minute after we take a break.

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But the whole idea of orphan car makes doesn't really, it shouldn't bring you down, really.

It shouldn't make you sad or anything, because that's just what happens.

But there are car events that are talked about as being orphan car meets, and I don't know.

I guess you'd have to look at the official rules for each one to determine if they go by that strict definition

or if it's a little bit more loose in the definition.

But, you know, if you go to these things, you're going to see Packards and Pierceros and Studebakers and Nash and Hudson.

And you might even see a Ford Falcon or something like that there.

Again, knowing that that is one that's just been abandoned by its parent company.

Obviously Ford is still making cars, so a Falcon wouldn't necessarily be one, but I don't know.

It seems like he got the idea now at this point.

One of the car shows that I want to talk about here, and I know this is one we've talked about in the past.

As far as I know, they're still operating this.

It's been around since 1997, and it's the annual orphan car show that's held in Riverside Park in Ipsilani, Michigan.

And Ipsilani's got a little tricky spell, and it's spelled with a Y.

It looks like Ipsilani, but it's Ipsilani.

And they have a little bit of a history.

The show co-founders, if the guy's name is Randy Mason and Jack Miller,

they were at a car show, apparently, and they were kind of reminiscing about the founding of the orphan car show.

And one of the guys, Jack said to the other one, you know, for a lot of years, we talked about how Hudson's and Stoodabegers and Willys and other orphan cars were always kind of overshadowed at the car shows.

And they were parked in the back rows, and you know, the ones that were up front were the Mustangs, the Corvettes, and the Chevy's, and all the typical cars you would see at the car show.

But the orphan cars, the one-off, the unusual ones, were always being kind of put to the corners, being kind of put in the back.

And it wasn't necessarily anything mean or anything, it was just there were more of the others.

There's more Mustangs, more Corvettes, you know, all that, and fewer of these orphan cars.

And they decided that they were going to do something about it.

And in 1997, they held the first orphan car show, which featured the make Hudson.

And kind of a funny thing happened.

Well, a lot of people showed up to it, obviously.

The funny thing that happened, though, was it was being held on the first Sunday in June, at least it was for the first couple of years.

And the reason behind that is, you know, it was a good time, family year for the car show this summertime.

The problem was they were dealing with rain and tornado warnings, and all kinds of just terrible weather.

They're in, in southeastern Michigan.

And after a couple of years, they decided that this is kind of a rainy time of the year for us around here, by June of 2010.

So this is like, yeah, this is like 13 years later, they had floods in the area and everything.

So they just were tired of fighting with the weather every year.

So they decided that, finally, they were going to move this show to the third Sunday in September,

which is a typically drier time of the year in that part of Michigan.

And I guess it's worked out for them in the past.

So the third Sunday in September, each year is when they hold the show.

The Motor City's national heritage area is one who operates this.

They highlight and promote the show as one of the top auto-related events in southeastern Michigan.

So it's a popular event.

It's held at the Ipsilani Automotive Heritage Museum.

I think the tickets are like, you know, under $10 for adults.

I think if you're like 12 and under it's free, but you can find the car registration

and, you know, the rules for the car show and everything on the website.

If you want to go to the Ipsilani Automotive Heritage Museum site and check that out.

And I think the mission to the museum is even cheap.

It's like a $5 mission to this museum.

I've never been to this one, but I would love to go.

And I'd love to be there for the show someday.

Maybe this year I'll get out there because September is a beautiful time in Michigan.

And I like to be there for Michigan summer. It's always fun.

And I know it's getting toward fall at that time of the year,

but that's a beautiful place.

And I encourage anyone and everyone to check it out if they can.

And, you know, I don't know if I have a whole lot more to say about orphan cars

other than what we've already covered.

And I probably have confused things quite a bit.

I hope I haven't mixed up any information or listed some cars that are not truly orphan cars,

or I've at least given it that little asterisk that says,

here's one that's been abandoned. It's not really truly an orphan or, you know, whatever.

But they're tough to keep up with.

It's tough to keep up with all these makes and models of cars,

especially when you look at that long, long list of defunct automobiles,

manufacturers, and then realize that the whole parent company thing

being purchased by another company kind of plays into this definition as well.

And that makes tricky, you know, like for a car like the MG,

think about that over the years, what that's gone through.

And even now is truly not an orphan car at this point,

but I don't know if it ever will be.

If it sold to some other company that eventually just goes out of business,

then it truly will be.

But you see the stickiness of this situation here, as we talk about it.

But again, always just a way to start the conversation.

So if you have some interest in orphan cars or if you own an orphan car,

I'd love for you to contact us and let us know all about it.

And if you've been to this orphan car show in the past,

or if you know of another event that's like that somewhere in your area,

I would love to hear about it.

You know, these unusual car shows are always fascinating to me.

Anyways, you can check us out.

We're on, of course, we got all the social media outlets covered.

So we're on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram,

where we are car stuff, HSW on all three of those.

And if you want to go to our website and check out any of the,

oh gosh, it's the, I guess we're on 900 or more episodes

that we already have of car stuff existing in our archives.

You could do that. That's a carstuffshow.com.

And those episodes go all the way back to 2008.

Some of the early days sound a little rough, so be kind.

As I hope you're being kind with some of these newer episodes

as we come back and try to build up the car stuff brand one more time.

That's what we're doing right now.

And I just appreciate you being here.

And again, right in with any kind of orphan car information

you might have that we'd love to hear from you.

Thanks again.

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This is an I Heart Podcast.

Guaranteed Human.

Ford Falcon

Jeep Willys

Ford Mustang

Chevrolet Corvette

About this episode

Original notes