Charles Leclerc is a top Formula 1 race driver. In this episode, the hosts are talking about his deal to keep driving for Ferrari for the foreseeable future.
Michael Schumacher was one of the greatest Formula 1 race drivers ever. The hosts are saying it would be a big deal if he won a championship while driving for Ferrari.
A V8 engine is a type of engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. The hosts are joking/speculating that future F1 rules could push Ferrari toward that kind of engine setup.
“2030 regulations” means the new set of rules coming to Formula 1 in the year 2030. Teams have to plan ahead because the rules can change how the cars are built and what kind of engines they use.
“Sliding doors moments” means one small choice or event can completely change what happens next. The hosts are saying that in Formula 1, timing and luck can swing a driver’s career a lot.
Mercedes is a major Formula 1 team. The hosts are saying that being at a top team at the right time matters, and they’re also unsure about Mercedes’ driver plans.
Lewis Hamilton is one of the most successful Formula 1 drivers ever. The hosts are using his move to Mercedes to show that big career decisions still have risks.
Lando is a Formula 1 driver. The hosts are talking about whether he should switch teams, and they point out that staying with McLaren can still lead to championships.
George Russell is a Formula 1 driver. The hosts are talking about whether Mercedes will keep him, and how that uncertainty affects other drivers’ career decisions.
“Toto” is a reference to the Mercedes team leader. They’re saying he may be offering shorter contracts, which can make driver decisions more complicated.
ADUO is an F1 rule that helps teams that are falling behind. If their engine performance is judged to be behind the best, they can get extra money under the cost cap to bring upgrades later.
F1 teams have a spending limit called the cost cap. “Cost cap allowance” here means extra budget they’re allowed to spend so they can develop and install upgrades later.
Balance of performance is when race organizers try to make different cars perform more similarly. The concern is that teams might intentionally drive slower so they get “help” from the rules later.
Le Mans is one of the most famous endurance races in the world, held in France. The host mentions it to illustrate how rule systems can lead to unexpected or controversial results.
In racing, “sandbagging” means intentionally holding back performance during practice or early sessions to avoid revealing true pace. Teams may do it to manage risk, gather data, or keep competitors from learning their setup and capabilities.
ICE stands for internal combustion engine. In hybrid race cars, people sometimes talk about “ICE performance” to mean just the engine part, separate from the electric/hybrid parts.
ChatGPT is an AI chatbot. Here it’s used as a comparison—basically saying the calculation feels like a mysterious AI that turns inputs into an official answer.
A “second driver” is a driver who’s usually not the team’s main priority for wins. Their job is often to help the lead driver—like supporting strategy—so the team can score more points.
“Winning cars” just means the cars that are fast enough and reliable enough to compete for race wins. The point here is that only a few teams usually have that kind of car in a given season.
when he won in Monaco, when Charle won in Monaco, the epic thing. Just imagine if he wins the world
title, like, the story would be incredible for Formula One, the hardship there's so many years
where people said you're wasting your career. Like, if he actually did it, it would be unbelievable.
But there's no denying that it's a risk. And the thing here is people can't predict the future.
There's so many sliding doors moments in Formula One, and you just don't know how it's going to go.
However, much everyone thinks Lewis Hamilton was a genius for joining Mercedes.
It was still like a moment where, like, you just don't know. And things have gone one way,
and things have gone the other. And you look at Lando, I remember doing a podcast when we first
started P1 about Lando and Orison going, does he need to leave McLaren? They're not going anywhere.
He should probably think he's going to waste his talent. He's one of the best drivers in Formula
One. He needs to go somewhere else. And he stayed at McLaren. They turned it around and won the
World Championship. So it's not impossible. I think that's some positive to hang on to,
some hope and point. Oh, I will be clinging on to that. So thank you, Tommy. That's made me
believe all over again. Let's get into some questions. NerdLFC asks, what do you think was
the biggest factor in Leclerc choosing to extend? I think, without discrediting him,
is that there was nowhere really else to go. Because, as we mentioned, you've got to be in
the right place at the right time. And at the moment, that is Mercedes and McLaren. And they're
two kind of driver lineups that are kind of locked in. We still don't know whether Mercedes are going
to keep George Russell on board, depending on what happens this season, whether George decides to go
elsewhere, whether Toto keeps him, because he's offering him very short deals as well.
And you kind of said this, we've had this conversation a few times of like, unfortunately,
for Leclerc, he's an incredibly good driver. I think one of the most gifted drivers on the
grid and one of the best. But unfortunately, his CV does not reflect that. And I think that's not
really fair on him. It's not all his driving, certainly not. But he doesn't have that credit
in the bank, like if a Stappen or a Lewis Hamilton has where he goes, I'm going to Ferrari now,
see you later, Carlos Sainz. I don't care that you're actually really good and definitely wouldn't
have left in any other situation. I'm joining Ferrari goodbye. Unfortunately, for Charles,
even those are fantastic driver, can't do that. So it does make sense. And I just don't see where
else he could go. The only other option might be Red Bull, if Max leaves. But is that, again,
we'd be talking about, is that just a sideways step? I don't personally see Red Bull returning to
the team that they were anytime soon, sadly for me. Bit of my pain now.
So in terms of the biggest factor for Leclerc choosing to extend, I think there was a few. But
one of the biggest for me was the fact that he just loves the team. He is absolutely
sold on the dream that we have just spoken about of winning a world championship for Ferrari.
I feel like just everything about the team fits so well with what Charles Leclerc stands for and
is. And I don't know, it just, it makes sense. And I don't know if that just sounds complete rubbish,
but it does. The Leclerc Ferrari partnership just is one that has gone on now for quite some time.
And yes, there have been some very, very difficult moments, but the highs, there's no other team
in the world where you could win at their home race. And it is like the biggest pandemonium event.
It's not like, for example, when we had a German Grand Prix and you won for Mercedes,
there, for example. It's not the same. You don't have the same as winning at Monza
for Ferrari. There's no better race. So I think those kind of moments just stick with the driver.
And for Leclerc, the love for the team is definitely one. And another one is the fact that
there is nowhere to go. Mercedes, McLaren, I feel, are firmly locked off at the moment,
at least for a Leclerc. For a Max Verstappen, he could knock on the door and speak to Toto and say,
can I play with your car? And he'll say yes. And then George will probably leave.
But sadly, as much as he has unlimited credit in the bank from me personally, Leclerc,
you know, he's incredible. It's not the same. So yeah, there's a lot of factors.
And also the fact that Ferrari aren't terrible. You know, people talk about Ferrari on social
media as if they're the fifth or sixth fastest team at the moment. They are a team that, yes,
have not won a race this year, but they've been right up there and close to being fastest.
And that's the problem that Ferrari always do is that they're second or third fastest.
They finish second in the constructors all the time. And that's not a bad team to be.
And you know, if Leclerc was to then announce this year, I'm going to ask to Martin,
because I believe in the dream there. Everyone would be questioning why the hell are you doing
that? Or why the hell are you going to any other team other than Mercedes or McLaren? But neither
of those are possible. So I don't really think the criticism that Leclerc will get of wasting
his career is fair. I know some people are going, oh, why don't you just wait to see what happens
with Max and how that changes the whole driver market? But what's to say that isn't happening
anyway? Just because he's announced this contract extension, we know how little contracts actually
matter in the world of Formula One. If a team wants a driver, they will make it happen. We've
seen that before. So as much as this has been announced, you know that the conversations,
or at least if you think about it, the paddock conversations are ongoing all the time. So I'm
sure Leclerc's team have looked at the options and this is the best one.
I think Ferrari, as you say, is that loyalty to Ferrari? And just to go on your point that
you made at the start, even with people that have won World Championships together like Max
Hustappen and Red Bull Lando with McLaren, there's no kind of more emotional bond between a team
and driver like there is Charlotte McLaren Ferrari. However, much people like take the
mick out of it. It's true that he kind of is born to be a Ferrari driver from the start
and he wants to win that world title for Ferrari. And that is a risk he's willing to take as well.
And Ferrari equally, I think, want as much as they've got Lewis Hamilton, I think deep down
Ferrari want Charlotte to be that driver to win the World Championship for them because it would
be an unbelievable story. I mean, if Hamilton won it, it would be as well. So basically,
if either of them win, they've got a great story. But I think obviously Hamilton's gone there
because he always wanted to drive for Ferrari if he wins the World Title, great. Whereas,
I mean, this is proving that Charlotte McLaren is always their kind of future plan,
if you like, for the long term because Lewis Hamilton isn't, with the greatest of respect,
getting a multi year deal because he probably will retire because he just will have to at some
point, even though I think he will stay longer than maybe we expected initially. So yeah,
I do think that a lot of it is just the bond between them as well. And they really, really,
really want to make it work. And there is however much you want to be in the best car,
there is loyalty to Formula One as much as people maybe don't think there would be.
Well, there's a lot of red bull like there's loyalty and then there's just generally like
people forget that these are actual human beings, the drivers as well. And they'd have to uproot
their entire life. If LeClaire was to move from Ferrari to Mercedes, or I guess he would take
Mercedes in a heartbeat. But like, you know, there are plenty of other logistical reasons
that we don't think about as well. You'd have to change his car from a Ferrari to a Mercedes.
Yeah. It's a tough life. You've got to think about these things.
It is very tough. But I will say that if Hamilton won for Ferrari, I think from a global side of
things that would transcend the LeClaire Championship at Ferrari as much as that breaks my
heart to say. But both of them would be massive for the sport. Next question, Brock and Soles.
Is this promising for Ferrari in the sense that Charles is hopeful they can deliver a title
winning car under these regulations? I love the positive spin on with this question of the fact
that, you know, it could be that he just likes a lot of money driving Ferraris and it's very,
very comfortable life with a podium sitting car at the moment. But no, it's we're going to get a
title winning car under these regulations. I don't know if Charles, I mean, Charles is hopeful
and Charles has been hopeful since 2019. So I guess the fact that there is still hope is a good
thing. But I'm not reading into this as Ferrari are cooking up something. They know they've done
a double. Shall know something next year. I would love to say that, but I can't I can't jump. I can't
for my own emotion. I can't jump on that hype train.
I think they the promise of them delivering a title in these regulations.
The thing we said at the start about Lando never say never because no one would have expected it.
And it's very easy to look at it and go, Oh, well, Red Bull are just going to dominate this whole
regulation the last time out. And actually by the end of it, they fell off a bit. The pack always
gets closer. And then McLaren managed to, you know, go into a year where they were actually pretty
dominant, particularly at the start of the year, which if you'd have said three years previously,
you'd have said jog on no chance that that's definitely not going to happen.
So I don't think it's out the question that Mercedes aren't going to just completely dominate
for the rest of time in these regulations and win every single race that they're doing at the moment.
That being said, just this is a bit of a side note, but I don't think it's been said enough.
And we've probably not had this conversation. So let's have it now.
How much Ferrari have been shafted with these regulations? And I don't think they're shouting
about this anywhere near enough as I think someone like Christian Horner or Toto Wolf would be.
Because they built a car for these regs to just start a Grand Prix normally, knowing they'd
have an advantage with a great start. And yet they changed the rules. So there was a start
procedure, which immediately kind of made their starts less good. Because if it was just a case
of five lights come on and go, Ferrari would be leading into turn one every single week at the
start of the season. So they changed that. Then they changed the kind of regulations again,
which has kind of made them further back. And for all the criticism that Ferrari get,
they built, I think, a very good car for these regulations. And I think had things just stuck
there where they were with normal start procedure, yes, we'd be complaining about how ridiculous
the regulations are. But I genuinely think Ferrari would be up there challenging for the
championship and race wins this year. Oh, no, they'd lead for three more laps and then lose
the lead again, mate. Just because they get to the lead, I don't think that would change.
Well, Australia was definitely a showcase of that. But then they didn't pit under the
BSE and then their strategies. Yeah, there are other factors. I'd love to say that, right?
But obviously they've brought those kind of procedures in for health and safety of the
drivers as well. You can't be having Ferrari launching off at 50 mile an hour quicker than
everybody else because that could cause some issues. And so I can understand to a degree why
they've brought that in. And also, I guess, of course, there's going to be a lot of conversations
behind closed doors. But Ferrari building that car was awesome to see in the first few races.
But I think we all knew that it wasn't going to last. And already we're seeing that that's not
the case. And McLaren are getting just as good a start as George had the best start of everybody
in Canada. So teams were able to figure it out pretty quickly, I guess, with the fact they have
this pre-race start thing. But I wonder how long that will last in the regulations as well
before they eventually scrap it because teams have figured it out. I think it's going to be
harder that Ferrari have had an advantage. And now they're almost going to have to not like start
again from scratch, but like, refind their performance in a different way. Whereas obviously,
other teams, you were kind of like further back like McLaren surprised everyone with how much
they they kind of improved. Whereas Ferrari started strong and have like fallen off and now
they need to kind of get back there, which I think is going to be quite a struggle. But I don't
think it's impossible. Gosh, who's the Ferrari fan on this podcast? We'd love to see it.
P1P, do you remember a good Karen asks, will we see Ferrari force a seven time world champion
into retirement for the second time? They can't keep Berman waiting forever.
This is going to be very fascinating to see now what what they do with Lewis Hamilton.
He's obviously, his form is now so much better than it was last year. He's having a great season,
I think, and improved massively. And as we were saying, like, Hamilton winning a world championship
at Ferrari or just winning races with Ferrari would be an enormous story for Ferrari.
It'd be huge for their brand, their stock might go up after that hideous electric car that they
released and get back into some positive light. And as much as Ollie Berman, I think, is a real
talent for Ferrari as a brand, you know, Lewis Hamilton is the guy that they want one in
for the name for everything. And obviously he's performing a lot better now and very well indeed,
actually. So Hamilton's going to want to stay longer now, I think.
They are, they do run the risk of Berman looking elsewhere. You know, we look what happened with
Schall, they tried to like get him in early. Sebastian Betel ended up leaving. So for I
have done it before, and like this question sort of mentions, they did it with Michael Schumacher,
where they, something Mercedes did with Lewis Hamilton, where they don't quite
push them out, but they kind of do things. Yeah, yeah. But even Hamilton at Mercedes,
it was kind of a, and we've had this conversation before, a Toto now loves to go, oh, he, I still
feel like he's my driver. It's like, well, you should have offered him a multi a deal then if
he cared about that much. So yeah, they can't keep Berman waiting forever because
I think he's, he would be ready to go into Ferrari next year, I think, but that's not
going to happen because they have the statistical greatest of all time in that seat. And he wants
to stay and he's driving well at the moment. He is, yeah, he's turned around his form this
year as Hamilton, especially off the back of Canada that we saw last time out.
It's going to be fascinating to see what Ferrari do here. If Hamilton's quick enough,
I think Berman will have to wait. I think the beauty of Ferrari and where they sit is that
they can keep Berman waiting forever because the minute Berman gets given the opportunity,
Oli will take it. That's it. There's no, there's no denying that whatsoever. So
just because Oli might have to wait a season or two, or maybe even three, find another team,
if he's not happy at Haas, he will go to Ferrari eventually. It just, it just depends when, I
think, unless Oli's performance, of course, dips and then the whole landscape changes once again.
But something I wanted to say about Ferrari as well, which was probably more linked to the
previous question around Shell being hopeful of a title winning car. Let's not forget that the
engine performance assessment has happened after Canada now. So we should, in theory, hear
which teams are getting an upgrade or allowed to have an upgrade before Monaco. So I haven't seen
that yet. I haven't seen a list or anything like that. But just to give you guys an idea,
I've got it here of what that means if you're not entirely up to speed. So it's called the ADUO,
Additional Development and Upgrade Opportunities, to essentially help manufacturers that are behind
to catch up. So the engine performance is measured across three periods, rounds one to five. So we've
had five, then six to 11 and then 12 to 18. And essentially, if there are engines that are deemed
to be between two and four percent behind the lead engine, then they're given an extra three
million dollars of cost cap allowance and allowed to bring an extensive upgrade at some point later
in this season. So that'll be really interesting to see. And if you further back, by the way,
you get two upgrades and things like that, and also up to, I think, 11 million dollars worth of
cost cap. So I really like this as basically a stop, kind of a blockade of not having a 2014
season all over again with Mercedes dominating by a country mile. So let's see what the results
come of that, because that will be a fascinating thing to see if Ferrari, for example, are deemed
to be two to four percent behind, which I would like to assume that they will be to be able to then
bring upgrades to their engine or an upgrade to their engine. So I just wanted to bring that up,
because of course we're talking about Ferrari. We find out that Mercedes were just sandbagging
the whole time and actually now can stretch their legs. Because there was a whole talk of like,
they were pretending to be slower to let people catch up and it doesn't look like they actually
have that much of an advantage and then it wouldn't. But I think this is like an independent test
that it's not like they look at the races and go, oh, you're two percent ahead. So they get their
engine and put it through stuff. That's my understanding of it anyway, because otherwise
you would have sandbagging and then, you know, oh, at Ferrari are actually 1.9 percent behind guys.
Oh yeah, it would be like the balance of performance in the WC that has caused lots of
controversy because people like end up just being slow on purpose and then winning Le Mans
by miles because they basically sandbag, then they do the bop and then they win Le Mans.
So oh, actually no, I tell a lie. So what they do is use live telemetry from the cars during
Grand Prix weekends. Because teams can always sandbag, the calculation relies on objective
physical parameters. So there's more to it, I think, than sandbagging and getting away with it.
So that's why Russell and Antonelli have been battling every race so they slow down.
So apparently the FIA feeds this real-time data into a highly complex secret mathematical equation
to produce the official ICE performance. Otherwise known as ChatGPT.
that the results are released and Ferrari are 5% clear and everybody gets it. Oh, actually Ferrari
you've got the best engine. They're like what? Please no, please no. Okay, next question. LH44SHM7
asks, do you think Charles will eventually win a title with Ferrari or will he bail out of this
extension for a better offer? Yes, he's winning a title at Ferrari and no, he's not bailing out.
It's either not winning a title at all or winning a title with Ferrari and I'm going to go with the
beautiful scenario of him winning a world title at some point with Ferrari. It has to happen. It
has to. For all the banter that we have, I hope it does happen. I think it would be a great story
for Formula One. I'd like to see it and I do think that if Charles Leclerc ends his career,
not even just with not winning a world title, but with the number of wins he has like
or not mastering his potential because I look at the kind of wins that he's had and comparing him
to other people in that situation. He is a fantastic driver and I think it was Sebastian
Vettel that wrote on his helmet when they did a helmet swap when I think Vettel retired or left
Ferrari and said, don't waste your talent. You're one of the one or even the best driver,
the most talented driver I've seen. I think it was something along those lines and yet
here we are with him extending with Ferrari again, hoping for it. But this is the nature of the
beast and the nature of Formula One and I'm not saying that people are, there is an element of
luck in Formula One. That is true. It's not to discredit anyone in Formula One. Had a sliding
doors moment not happened with Braun GP, Jensen Burton would have just been thought of as he's
wasted his career at Honda, didn't go well. He was at the back of the grid and then he got the car
and then he could share what he could do. There's so many great drivers on the grid. This is what
the conversation that we've had of like and it's because there's so many talented drivers on the
grid that we go, Fernando Alonso is wasting his career here. He can never get the right team.
Oh, Lando Norris, he's a really talented driver. Where can he go? Oscar Piastri,
does he want to be second driver to Charles Leclerc? It's because there's so many good
drivers on the grid and for the history of Formula One, as much as we want to see every
single team and driver be able to win, the history of Formula One tells us that
you're basically one or two every year winning cars. There's a very slim chance of you actually
being in the right place at the right time and I'm sorry to end on a bad note but I don't think
Charles will win a world title. I hope he does and I'd like to see it but unfortunately I just think
he won't because of Ferrari. Clip this up ready to roll out in 2013.
Well, everyone's already done the Lando Norris one. He's got to leave McLaren. They're never
going to win anything. Hey, we never said that Lando would win a world title. We said that McLaren
exactly. McLaren wouldn't be able to deliver and then they were like, actually, that's just become
the greatest team and win. So I think you mentioned about Willie Bell for a better offer.
I will confidently say, I don't know how confidently if he will win a title or not,
but I can confidently say I don't think he's ever leaving Ferrari. I think he's Ferrari
till the end now. Yeah, potentially. Although we have seen, we said Hamilton would stay at Mercedes
forever and then to the end of their career or McLaren and then things can change. Even the
team can go. We're looking for a bit of younger talent. Of course, Charles Leclerc is not old,
but when we get further down the line, perhaps that might be a case again where Ferrari go,
look, we'll give you a one year and Charles wants more than that and he'll go somewhere else and
inevitably win the world title. But yeah, I just looked up something which is sad reading,
which is a list of Formula One winners. I've literally got that open as well. Yeah,
I'm looking at people that have got more. It's funny that, well, it's not funny at all, that
when I see that he only has eight wins, that is absolute. I thought we were on nine at least,
but we're not. We're on eight, which is the same as Daniel Ricciardo. We're behind Oscar Piastri.
I say we, like we're all collectively a Charles Leclerc fan, do you know what I'm saying?
We're one win behind. We're two wins behind Valtteri Bottas. Lando has 11 wins,
which is pretty good going for him. And I'm looking at the next car driver on 32. So,
it's a big jump for current drivers. Yeah, I mean, come on, we've got to get ahead of Bottas
at least. We've got to get into double digits, but it's tough. It's been a while since we last
saw a Charles Leclerc win. But anyway, positive. When was it? We're winning a whole US 2024.
Oh yeah, because Carl lost the most recent Rory winner. Shut up. Why?
Actually, Max has won a race in a Rory more recently, actually, because he won that GT race.
Cool. Is that one of the ones he wasn't disqualified from?
Actually, let me well run the list of wins. 71, yeah, Max. Okay, just thought you'd check.
Yeah, 71. All right, I pray for your downfall. Not Max's downfall, just yours.
All right, thank you everybody for tuning in to this Charles Leclerc specific podcast.
Let us know what you think. Where does Charles Future take him?
And we'll see you in Monaco. We're flying to Monaco literally tomorrow morning,
so can't wait to be out there. Of course, all of our podcasts will be out
Internet willing at normal time. So we'll see you soon. Bye.
Bye. Of course, they'll have no wins on Monday.
I wasn't going to say that. You said
About this episode
Charles Leclerc’s Ferrari contract extension sparks a debate on loyalty, opportunity, and whether staying put is the smart move. The hosts frame Leclerc’s message as “forever,” while arguing F1 is full of “sliding doors moments” and that contracts don’t fully lock outcomes. They weigh Ferrari’s romantic appeal and Monza pressure against rule/regulation shifts that have left the team struggling. They also discuss ADUO, telemetry-based engine performance, and what it could mean for Ferrari’s title chances.
The copium dream continues at Ferrari, because Charles Leclerc has agreed to a new long-term contract! We wonder why Charles has committed to the team that promises so much - but delivers a bit less - as well as what his alternative options might have been. Plus, will he ever win the world title he probably deserves?
Our brand new live show 'Super Podding' is coming to the UK and Amsterdam this autumn! Get your tickets here: http:/tix.to/p1live
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