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Coming up on episode 416 of Wheel Bearings, we've got the Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro, Acura ADX, Honda Passport, Trail Sport Elite.

More on EV tax credits ending at the end of the month.

Ineos is cutting prices. Volvo's XC70 has 120 miles of plug-in hybrid range.

GM's cutting production of EVs in Detroit.

Ram's now shipping Hemi Ram 1500s.

We've got an off-roading Chrysler Pacifica concept.

AMG sets a bunch of EV records.

Lucid's doing some updates for 2026.

And Robbie visits Slate. All that and more coming up next.

This is episode 416 of Wheel Bearings.

I'm Sam O'Buell-Sammet from Telemetry.

And I'm Nicole Wakeland from Top Speed.

And I'm Roberto Baldwin from SAE International and also Ars Technica this week.

Ooh, excellent.

Well, there'll be another Ars Technica thing going up this week for me.

So, Nicole, what have you been driving?

Well, last week I had the, what's it, the Honda Acura.

Nope, that's not what the car is.

Honda Acura.

That's what you get when you look both cars.

Acuras are basically Hondas.

The Honda Acura, yeah.

The 2025 Acura 80X all-wheel-drive A-spec Advance.

Again, these long titles.

So, this is an all-new car, I guess, or SUV this year?

It's a new nameplate.

New nameplate. There we go. Thank you.

Robbie's the one who just woke up and I'm the one who has no words.

So, it's a new nameplate.

It's, you know, this is, this is, I feel like this is just the continued expansion

of every OEM to have an SUV for every conceivable, like, size, right?

Every 30 inches there has to be a brand new SUV.

Right, it's like, wait, we can make one one inch smaller, wedge it right in there.

So, it's just another SUV, which sounds like I'm discounting it, but it's a good SUV.

I like it. I did enjoy driving this.

I thought it was a great vehicle.

It starts at $42,000, but mine was a bit pricier than that.

Mine was, sorry, close the wrong page, $45,950.

So, it's a little bit more.

Do you guys want to take a guess at the destination handling charge on this puppy?

$13.95.

$1,400.

Well, Sam wins, $13.50. You were really good.

Oh, well, you talked about it last week, so I think Sam just remembers.

That's cheating, Sam.

Who had it last week? Wait, who had it last week?

I did, but I honestly don't remember.

I just think most Honda's and Acura's are in that range.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have remembered.

Did I drive that last week? I wouldn't remember the car.

By the time the show was over, I'd be like, how much was it?

To be honest, I didn't find it all that memorable anyway.

I thought it was fine. I liked it.

It's fine.

That is the key word.

It's fine.

Fine.

Tell us what you love about the ADX.

What I love about the ADX.

I liked it a lot.

I like the ADX. It feels like an Acura.

There's nothing really to complain about, but I don't know

that there's anything to specifically cheer about.

It has a 1.5-liter engine, 190 horsepower.

That's not very much. That's kind of modest.

A CVT. There's paddle shifters. Why do they do that?

No one's using paddle shifters on this.

No one. It just makes you think it's fine.

Because Acura is Honda's performance brand.

So you've got to have paddles.

Did yours do that?

I didn't play with them.

You're not buying this if you're looking for a sports car.

Definitely not.

Why give us paddle shifters?

I don't want to say it's underpowered, but it's just enough.

It is the just right car.

It's the one that Goldilocks would be like, this is okay.

It's okay for a Honda, I think.

I guess that would be the challenge.

For $40,000, what did I just say?

$45,950.

I feel like it's a lot.

That's a lot for this vehicle.

It's got leather seats.

It has the A-spec package, which gives cool styling stuff.

It has ventilated front seats.

It has sport pedals, which look pretty cool.

You get ambient lighting.

You get some LED fog lights.

It's for that just looks.

There's the advanced package, which is part of it, too, on this one.

You get a 15-speaker Bang & Olufsen audio.

Cool.

You get a heated sport steering wheel.

Cool.

You add some stuff to it.

You said that's a good idea.

I thought everything about this vehicle was good,

but I didn't think it was great.

It wasn't something that I thought, okay, I'm so impressed with this.

I have to share the news of the ADX with everybody.

I thought it's going to check the box for some people

who are looking for a relatively affordable Acura,

459.50 for an Acura, for an SUV.

That's fine.

It has just enough power, just enough, just enough.

I don't know about that.

You didn't think it had enough.

I wasn't here last week, so what did you think?

Did you think it was way underpowered or just like?

I think it's definitely on the underpowered side

for what is supposed to be a performance brand.

I clocked it 9.5 seconds zero to 60,

and it doesn't feel quick.

It feels slow.

Well, you're calling Acura a performance brand.

Do you really think of it as-

Acura calls themselves a performance brand.

But do you think of them as a performance brand?

Do you think of them as like a Honda's luxury brand,

or do you think of them as a Honda's performance brand?

They're Honda's Audi.

They're Honda's Audi?

Yeah.

They are more luxurious than a Honda,

but I would not put them in the same luxury class

as, let's say, Lexus.

Traditionally, Acura's have been,

if you have a spectrum of performance to luxury,

Lexus has veered more towards the luxury side of that spectrum.

Acura has veered a little more to the performance side

of that spectrum.

And as a brand that explicitly

promotes themselves as a performance brand,

the Integra, the TLX, the RDX,

these are models that, to me,

feel much more sporting.

They're not sports cars,

but they feel much more performance oriented,

even though they also have nice premium interiors.

And in the case of the ADX,

is like the one model in the lineup

that, to me, just really misses the boat

of what Acura themselves claim the brand to be.

The styling is a little more bland

than any of the other Acuras.

And the thing I talked about last week was

the powertrain in this thing is actually

it's a good powertrain.

We had basically the same engine

and transmission in our Civic for eight years,

and my wife loved it.

But that Civic weighed 700 pounds less.

Exactly.

That's the problem.

This is too big.

Even now, well, it's not that it's that big.

It's just too heavy.

Too heavy, yeah.

They've added some ballast in there somewhere.

Because an Integra,

an Integra is basically the same size

and weighs 550 pounds less.

Yeah.

The engine, and I would agree,

this is a great little engine.

It's a turbocharged little four-cylinder,

190 horsepower, the CVT, it's all,

that is all really actually quite good.

It's just not quite good for this vehicle.

It's not enough for this vehicle.

If you put it into a Civic,

suddenly you've got a great combination.

This is just, it's too heavy,

and it's not enough power for this vehicle.

So I didn't find it horrifically underpowered.

I definitely didn't find it sporty.

But I think sometimes, you know,

like you're saying,

Accura-Bills itself is the performance brand.

I still think a lot of people,

some people think of it that way.

I think a lot of people think of it

as more like the luxury-ish,

luxury light brand of Honda.

You know, like there's Honda Accura,

Toyota Lexus, Hyundai Genesis.

They're all very different in those top brands.

But I think people just say,

well, it's their fancy brand.

Everything's a little bit nicer.

In that regard, I think it looks nicer

than the average Honda.

It's a little bit more luxurious

than the average Honda.

So I think it's good,

but I think if you're looking

for the performance part of this,

I don't think it's,

for the average person,

they're going to think it's terrible.

I think if you're looking for the performance,

you're going to be disappointed.

If that's like your focus

and that's what you think

you're getting in this Accura,

you're going to be sad.

If you just want a nice little SUV

that has a decent amount of power

and looks good and has an accurate badge on the front,

then you're not going to be disappointed.

And the thing is, for $45,000,

you can get a base RDX

that has all-wheel drive.

It has super-handling all-wheel drive.

So it's got the torque vectoring system in there

and a 2-liter turbo with 272 horsepower.

And yeah, it doesn't have all of the features

that you get in the ASPEC ADX at that price point.

But even the ASPEC RDX is $50,000,

$50,300.

And if you're going to spend $45,000,

can you manage to spend a few thousand more?

Maybe, probably.

Yeah.

But even if you go,

just go for the base RDX

for the same amount of money.

And yes, you give up a few features,

but it's a lot more enjoyable vehicle to drive.

So did you do the launch program for the ADX?

I did.

I did not.

So that's what I hate about missing a launch.

It's not so much driving the car.

I know I'll get it in my driveway.

But you miss what they think they built.

Like, what was their...

Do you remember what they said?

Like, we built this because...

They called it the gateway to the Acura brand.

Okay.

Okay, so if you look at it as the gateway,

I can't really get the first little baby step

into something nicer than a Honda.

But to me, the entry point I would prefer to take

if I'm interested in an Acura is the Integra.

Yeah.

Which has the same starting price.

But maybe you need more car

than maybe you need more room than an Integra.

I like the Integra better too,

but maybe you need more car than that.

But if you actually look at the numbers,

the ADX has a shorter wheelbase.

It does not actually have any more interior volume

than an Integra.

The only thing it has over an Integra

is you sit up a little bit higher.

You sit a couple inches higher.

And if that is an issue for you

that you really want that higher seating point.

But the thing is, this is not like a real SUV.

This is very much a car crossover.

It's a crossover.

Yeah, they're calling it a premium compact SUV.

It's kind of a compact crossover.

Yeah.

It's not big and roomy.

And it has a very sloped...

The back is very sloped.

So in the back, you're losing both cargo room

and you're using some headroom.

Like it feels smaller when you're sitting...

Yeah, Robbie's doing the hunch thing.

That's what he would be doing in the back,

which you wouldn't do in the ADX.

Yeah.

I mean, if what you want is a more

performance-oriented Acura

that has similar amount of interior space,

get the Integra.

If what you want is an Acura SUV,

get the RDX.

Yeah.

Unless you're going to go for a base-level ADX,

which, again, kind of...

Well, and that's the thing.

I pulled up just the consumer side

because I was curious.

So if you're just a consumer and you're shopping,

you're right.

The Integra starts at 33.

The ADX starts at 35.

But the RDX starts at 44.7.

So if you're just looking at base prices,

the ADX is...

That's like almost 10...

That's basically 10 grand.

But that $35,000 ADX is also front-wheel drive.

Right.

So you had a couple thousand more for all-wheel drive.

Exactly.

But if you're really like as a consumer just looking

like, oh my God, wait, I can get that one for 35.

So you're going to go right to that

if your budget is tight and you're kind of stretching

to get yourself into an Acura.

But then I think if that's an issue,

then you should...

I would strongly recommend people actually look

at the Integra over this.

Yeah.

I agree.

Because you're going to have a lot more fun

driving an Integra than you are.

Because even that front-wheel drive ADX

is still about 250, 300 pounds heavier

than the Integra.

So it's not going to have as much performance.

You're not getting any extra interior room.

It's like it's kind of the worst of all worlds to me.

Wow.

So you loved the ADX.

I can see that's the top of your shopping list.

I will grant the handling.

It's good in typical Honda fashion.

It's good driving dynamics.

But again, that ultimately you're limiting it

because of that added weight to your hauling around too.

Yeah.

So yeah, I would agree with everything.

It was a fine.

It was fine.

It was just fine.

But there's better options out there.

There's nothing really wrong with it.

Even within the Acura lineup.

Even with an Acura.

You can get a better Acura than this if you want to.

It's like the Chevy Malibu.

It's fine, but there's so many other things

in the world that are so much better.

On the other hand, you will never find an ADX

in a daily rental fleet.

As a car, it's fine.

It's fine.

Somehow, I never liked the Malibu.

I don't like it at all.

I generally hate the Malibu.

But if you just look at it as a car, it's fine.

But also, I absolutely hate it.

See, when I say fine about the ADX, I'm like, it's fine.

When I say fine about the Malibu,

I literally mean that meme with the dumpster fire.

It's fine.

I would not go that far with the Malibu.

I did not like it.

Oh, I don't like it either.

But as a vehicle, it's just like,

all right, they built a car that'll be, you can rent.

Yeah.

It is the official, like...

You can genuinely tolerate the Malibu.

They sent me the Malibu to test out the teen

NARC setting that they had on there.

Teen NARC setting.

Isn't it called teen driver?

Yeah, like teen ever.

Teen NARC.

Snitch.

They call it the teen snitch.

And I had the car.

I'm like, I hate this car so much.

I didn't even write about the car.

I just wrote about the feature.

Because I knew if I'd write about the car,

it would just be like a tirade of anger.

Yeah, I didn't, I don't know why I didn't like that car,

but I just...

It's just something about it.

Yeah.

Not even there was anything wrong with it.

It's like Dane Cook of cars.

There's just something about it in here.

Dane Cook of cars.

Like you kind of just don't want to be like,

I don't want to be around this.

I don't want to be associated with it.

I don't know what it is.

You're just something.

Fair.

That's all fair.

I hope Dane Cook doesn't listen to this.

I don't know Dane Cook.

He might be a nice person.

Who knows?

Probably not.

I doubt it.

It's probably not being weird somewhere.

So there's my thoughts on the ADX.

We love it people.

Go buy one.

That was not my favorite car.

Or not.

Yeah, or not.

Go buy an Integra.

Yes.

Buy an Integra.

And you get a manual transmission.

Yes, exactly.

You can get a six-speed manual on the Integra.

You'll get extra pedal.

So I had a...

I was in an Uber and the kid had a...

He was very young and I'm like,

oh, this is a car guy.

He had a bright orange Civic.

What is the Civic Sporty?

S-S-I-S.

S-S-I?

S-I.

With a manual transmission, it was...

It was such a pretty car.

And he drove on like, ooh.

Like, you don't really find these super fun sporty cars.

You get picked.

And I was like, oh, nice car guy.

We started talking and he started talking about this.

And he's like, wait, you actually...

He's like, I talked to my girlfriend.

She doesn't know anything about this.

How do you know so much about cars?

He's like, somebody finally appreciated my car.

He was so grateful.

I don't think anybody appreciated how cool this car was.

I was like, it is a cool car.

It is a cool car.

I liked this car.

It was a really nice car.

See, unlike the Malibu, it was sort of like,

I was like, oh, look at your sporty little Civic.

I love this thing.

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So I had another car last week,

not last week, last week I had the ADX.

This week, still sitting in my driveway,

which my neighbor really wishes that we had

for Halloween because the color of this is

sunset orange.

It looks like a giant pumpkin.

It's the Honda Passport TS Elite.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Not a trail sport.

No.

Well, see, here's the fun.

Trail sport is the TS.

TS, yes.

Is it got recovery hooks on it?

Yes.

It is a bright orange recovery hooks that match

the bright orange car.

Yeah, right?

Maybe they just didn't have room on the Minroni.

I think they couldn't fit it on the Minroni.

In 2020, it's TS.

They just did TS, abbreviation.

The TS.

It's cooler that way.

So I really like the new Honda Passport.

I genuinely like this car.

When we did the drive for it, I really liked it.

We took it off-road.

Did some off-roading stuff in Puerto Rico.

And it really could go off-roading.

It's not like Rubicon Trail worthy off-roading,

but 99% of us don't do that.

But if you're just the kind of light off-roading

that you typically do as someone who is just

an average consumer, you're going to drive

down a dirt trail here and there.

You might have a dirt road.

You might park for some event out in a field.

If you want to do some, you know,

you have a trail that you want to go to

that's not super technical.

You can do it.

But we did done some steep ascents

and downhill the other way on sort of slippery stuff

because it was very wet.

It was like very slick mud.

I know mud is always slippery,

but some mud is like really slippery.

It was the kind of stuff

like if you stepped out in the wrong spot,

you'd have been on your butt.

It was really slippery.

And it was great.

So I was really impressed with it.

I genuinely like this car.

So the Trail Sport, oh God,

they didn't put a price on this one.

I had the other one put a price.

So I thought I had it right in front of me.

$40.

Wait.

More than $40, less than a million.

There we go.

I was trying to find them like I had it.

So first, what do you think destination is?

There it is.

What do you think destination is?

1350.

You're wrong.

1450.

Sam got it.

It's just Sam's week.

He gets all the...

He gets it.

So the Trail Sport,

there's a Trail Sport and a Trail Sport Elite.

You get extra goodies on the Elite.

So the Trail Sport is 48, 450.

The Elite is 52, 450.

So it's not an exclusive...

Would you get...

Okay, for 48, 450, it's slightly more than the ADX.

Which one would you guys get?

Have you driven both of these?

Oh gosh, I totally get the Passport already.

Absolutely.

ADX.

Right?

Man, for the $3,000 price difference,

yeah, I would absolutely take the Passport.

Right?

And it's...

And the way it's equipped even,

like it's a different fancy.

Like the Acura is designed to be a little bit more refined.

The Trail Sport is like,

ah, I'm rugged.

I'm burly.

I'm going to take you in the dirt.

It still looks better.

I'd still rather buy this.

Like I love...

The Honda Passport is like one of my favorite cars this year.

I love this one.

I'm rugged.

I'm burly.

I'm going to take you in the dirt.

I'm already going in the dirt.

So I thought this was good.

So this one,

just in terms of difference of stuff,

it has a 3.5-liter V6 with 285 horsepower.

You have a horsepower difference.

190 in the ADX.

285 in this.

Holy be Jesus.

That's a huge difference, right?

So this is far more responsive.

It has a 10-speed automatic,

which also adds to its nice driving,

to its just the way, you know,

it accelerates smoothly.

Liveliness.

Yes.

It's a peppy little thing.

That's a little...

Not so little.

It is pretty big.

There's torque everywhere.

I'm sorry.

Torque everywhere.

My neighbor was looking at it,

and she was like,

it's fun to see what people say about a car

that people know.

Like people know the Passport, right?

And she said,

that looks really good.

Did they change that?

That looks really burly.

I'm like,

what is the off-road-ish one that they have?

I like that thing.

I want you to have it at school.

She was like coming over and checking it out.

I was at an appointment,

and somebody looks out the window,

and they know what I do.

That orange thing has to be yours.

Yeah, the orange thing is mine.

But then they're all at the window going,

orange thing looks pretty good.

Like everyone uniformly thought

that this is a good look.

Like the very angular styling.

So this car, it looks fantastic.

I love how it looks.

I think it has more than enough power.

It drives beautifully.

It's, despite its rough and ready off-road capabilities,

it is still a relatively smooth car to drive.

It doesn't feel like,

like off-road,

true off-road vehicles,

even since they just have off-road trims,

you get very bouncy on the highway.

It's very rough.

It's very loud.

All these things, nope.

It was still well-mannered on the highway.

I took it on some twisty,

sturdy back roads near my house.

Handles well on those.

You don't, it doesn't feel sloppy.

It feels very controlled.

So I actually really,

I really enjoyed driving this

and I get an extra day with it

because Monday is a holiday

and I'm not sad about that.

Yeah, I'm like,

there's like work only

and I could come pick up your car

till Tuesday.

I'm like, that's fine.

That's fine.

I will keep the Honda Passport T as elite

for an extra day.

And it gets like,

inside there's leather trim.

They have a 12 speaker Bose audio system.

It has a 12.3 inch touchscreen.

It has all the things

that you want.

And it's like,

not outrageously expensive.

It's, I feel like this is a good price.

And if you don't want the extra bells

and whistles,

48, 450, just get the regular transport.

Use a couple of the little

extra sort of comfort stuff

if you don't go with the elite.

You got the orange stripes on the seats?

Yes, it does have,

it has orange,

does it have orange stripes on the seats?

But I'm sure you remember.

I know there's orange on the seats.

Now I remember,

I can't remember if it was just like

contrast or if it was actually stripes.

I think it's just contrast.

There was the one that I photographed

when we were in Puerto Rico

had the orange contrast stitching.

And then it also had

the trail sport logo stitched

on the headrest in orange.

And then orange stripes

on the seat cushion and the seat back.

It does have trail sport logos on the seats.

I don't know why I'm not remembering

the orange stripe.

Yeah, okay.

But it just could be, you know.

I've got pictures of a couple of different ones.

They both have the orange stripe there.

Striped there, so.

But I love the orange.

I think this,

like I'm a fan of this one.

Bold colors are good.

They're, yeah.

Bold colors are good.

We had a conversation about that yesterday.

We went up to the seacoast

and we kept seeing Mustangs.

Everyone had a Mustang.

A lot of them were convertibles.

I don't know if it's because

everybody's desperately holding on

to the last days of summer.

And it's a holiday weekend.

So there were lots of rentals, exactly.

But they were really,

like we were in the one parking lot

and there was a bright yellow one,

a bright green one,

and a bright blue.

And I'm like, I love the Skittles colors for cars.

And I feel like it especially works on a Mustang.

But then we looked at everything else in the parking lot,

like aside from these Mustangs

that were glowing in the dark

in the parking lot by the lobster shack,

black, gray, white.

Everything was really muted.

Rentals.

Yeah.

Probably all rentals.

So I genuinely like the passport.

I was impressed the first time I drove it

in Puerto Rico.

I was impressed driving it again.

I just think it's just,

it's a very solid vehicle

and it has lots of personality,

lots of style,

even if you're not going for the trail sport,

even if you're not going for the,

what did I just call it?

I want to call it pumpkin.

Sunset orange.

It's just a good looking car.

Pumpkin's good.

Pumpkin.

I'm going to call it pumpkin.

Even if you don't get the pumpkin passport,

I like that.

They should just call it pumpkin.

Pumpkin passport.

It's still a good looking vehicle.

It's fun to drive.

It's affordably priced.

It has tons of room in it.

It's got good capability.

I mean, like, giant thumbs up for this one.

This one I like.

I like this one.

Yeah.

No, I like the passport too.

I think, you know,

it's a huge improvement over the last gen.

And, you know,

it does have surprisingly good ride quality

and everything.

I had one for the weekend in June

when, you know,

we're invited to join Honda

at the Detroit Grand Prix.

And when they do that, you know,

they always send Hondas and Acura's out to everybody

that they're hosting at the race.

And so they sent me one for a couple of them

for the weekend to drive.

And it was good fun.

So I can't remember it.

I'm looking because I didn't actually look to see

if this one had it.

But I know that it is available

and I don't see it listed on them in Rony

because I didn't take this thing apart.

But they also have a table in the back

of some of these.

I think it depends on the trim.

Yeah, it's an option.

Yeah.

Like the old CRVs.

But it's so much better.

Yeah, no, you're right.

It was the CRV.

Yeah.

The CRV.

But the one they had in the CRV

was like the rickety-est of, like, card tables.

Like, think old-school card table.

It was great.

Like, I loved it,

but it was very thin legs on the table

and a very thin table surface.

The new one, they beefed it up

and the legs screw into the bottom.

They have a little storage spot in the back

where you can, like, lay them in there

and it holds the legs and the table fits in.

It's much, like, sturdier.

Like, I feel like now they're like,

we're not messing around.

This table is a table.

So the mind doesn't have it, I don't think.

But I love that when they had that it,

again, and they did the first drive on that.

I got to see that

and that was one of the things

I really liked about this.

Although I don't know why

they just didn't put one on the CRV.

Put the weedy little table back on the CRV

and it was the burly table on the passport.

I'm sure maybe they saw one

through the accessory program.

They might, I'm sure.

But it was part of the,

if I'm remembering right on the CRV,

it was literally the load floor, wasn't it?

Like, so you would have to...

I think so, yeah.

So you would take that out.

It's been a few years,

but I thought it was a load floor

that you had to take out.

There's somebody in my neighborhood

that still has a first gen CRV.

Really?

I have to ask him if he's got the table.

If he has the table.

You should, and then if you get the passport,

you need to do a table to table comparison.

Like, if yours has it and showed the difference.

This one is far sturdier

than the old one in the CRV was.

So yeah, passport, big fan.

All right.

Well, I had a similarly sized vehicle

to the passport that is also off-road oriented.

It has slightly more capability

than the passport.

It can go places the passport can't.

And that is the 2025 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro.

Ooh.

And fortunately, unlike the Tacoma TRD Pro,

this one does not have the isodynamic seats.

So, you know, the seats are not like a foot thick,

the seat backs,

because you don't have those dampers

built into the back of the seat.

And so, you know, the TRD Pro 4Runners

come standard with the hybrid drivetrain

that you get in a bunch of the Tacomas

and the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner now.

So it's the 2.4 liter turbo with the Toyota hybrid,

their rear wheel drive hybrid system

that goes in the...

It's the same system basically

that's in the Tundra and Sequoia as well,

which is really a system that is tuned more

for performance than for fuel economy.

So you're not really...

This is not a 4Runner that's going to get you

50 miles per gallon.

In fact, most of the time it's not a 4Runner

that's going to get you 20 miles per gallon.

On the Minroni, the official EPA rating

is 23 miles per gallon combined, 23 city, 24 highway.

In the times that I've had the opportunity to drive

any of these three vehicles,

the 4Runner, the Tacoma,

or the Land Cruiser with this powertrain in there,

I have never managed to get 20 miles per gallon.

In this one, I got 17.5,

which is not great for a mid-sized SUV,

mid-sized two-row SUV.

But this thing sits fairly high.

It's on 33-inch off-altering tires.

Oh, well, let me finish with the powertrain.

In this form in the 4Runner,

326 horsepower, 465 foot-pounds of torque.

So performance, not an issue.

8-speed automatic transmission.

Again, performance, not really an issue with this.

It is nominally, let me say on the label,

gets a couple miles per gallon better

than the turbo,

the same engine without the hybrid system.

But in reality, in most normal driving,

it doesn't really do any better.

But like I said, it's got decent performance.

It's, you know, with the TRD Pro package on there,

you get TRD tuned Fox shocks, Fox dampers,

extra ride height,

it's got some custom machined control arms in the front.

It's designed to have more wheel travel.

So as with the Tacoma,

they've got two high-end off-road versions.

You know, there's the Trail Hunter,

which has the same powertrain,

but is tuned a little differently.

That's the one that is designed to be the equivalent of,

you know, a Wrangler Rubicon.

You know, for, you know, the hardcore off-road rock crawling,

you know, it's got all the locking differentials

and the tires and the dampers and everything,

and lots of skid plates for rock crawling.

This one, the TRD Pros, are designed more

as the equivalent of a Ford Raptor.

So more for high-speed desert running.

In either case, they both do well off-road.

You know, when we did the first driver,

I didn't do any off-roading while I had it this time,

but when we did the first drive out in California

earlier this year, you know, we had a chance

to do some rock crawling with a Trail Hunter,

do some faster off-roading on dirt trails

with the TRD Pro, both very, very capable.

What else?

You got electronic locking, rear differential,

crawl control, downhill, set control,

all that, all the stuff that you expect.

Also, a stabilizer bar disconnect

for the front stabilizer bar,

so you get a little more wheel articulation.

So if you're going over, you know,

if you've got some, you know, bigger moguls

that you're trying to get over

and you want to keep trying to keep

the wheels more in contact,

the stabilizer bar disconnect helps

keep the, helps those wheels move around

independently a little bit more than they normally would.

18-inch TRD Pro wheels, the Heritage Grill,

it's got the LED light bar integrated into the grill,

so I could not get that to actually turn on.

I have to figure out, there's some combination,

I think with headlights and that LED light bar

that you have to have for the light bar

to actually come on, so I didn't actually get it to come on,

but you get front skid plates

and additional skid plates underneath the,

some of the other components underneath,

underneath this SUV.

They're, one of the things that they retained

on the Forerunner this year is the slide down rear window,

so if you want to carry your surfboard

or anything else hanging out the back

or your paddle board, if you got a rigid paddle board,

you can put down the rear window

or you just want a little extra airflow,

you can put that down, stick that stuff out the rear window.

It's got the 14-inch Toyota Multimedia system

with wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto,

nice big screen, still have knobs for,

two knobs for temperature controls for the driver

and front passenger, volume knob for the audio,

and it still has the same issue with the infotainment

that I've had since they launched this current generation

where it generally works really well,

the graphics are good, it's responsive,

but you can't display two things on the screen at the same time.

You can have your media player or you can have your maps

or you can have your settings,

but you can't have media player and maps at the same time,

which is a little bit annoying,

but if you want, you know,

if you use your smartphone projection,

then you can have all that stuff on screen simultaneously.

What else?

This one also had the optional onboard air compressor,

an Airbnb roof rack for $1,700.

The air compressor, by the way, $1,475.

Wow, you can buy an air compressor for like 20 bucks.

Yeah, I know.

That's a lot.

You can buy a decent air compressor for 100 bucks.

So, you know, if you don't necessarily need one

that's built into the truck,

maybe just, you know, go to Lowe's or somewhere

and buy one.

I did a whole, like, roundup of air compressors

either on the Wall Street Journal or USA Today.

So, just go look that up.

Go look at my name.

There you go.

One of those places, air compressors.

There you go.

There's a bunch of them.

Yeah.

What else?

Let's see.

This one had the digital key system, $275.

Well, a bunch of options on here.

With, you know, one of the advantages,

you know, even if you're not driving off-road,

if you live somewhere like Michigan,

where the roads are generally crap,

you know, having at least something with smaller wheels,

taller sidewall tires,

more likely to survive the potholes.

So, that's always a good thing.

All in total price,

probably the biggest downside of the current generation

of Tacomas and forerunners,

they're expensive.

If you get anything but the base model,

the base like SR, SR5,

which are pretty close to the same price

as the previous generation,

all the other trims got substantially more expensive,

including this forerunner TRD Pro.

Grand total, $73,523.

Oof.

Wow.

That's a lot.

That's steep.

Yeah.

You know, so that's what 25,

about 25 grand more than that passport.

And if you're not actually going to be taking it

on serious off-road adventures,

you know, if you're, you know,

if you just need something to, you know,

take you down the trail to a cabin

or something like that,

maybe consider that passport trail sport.

It's pretty good at that.

Handle that stuff.

Exactly.

Handle that stuff without any real issues.

You know, if you plan to, you know,

run across the Mojave Desert, you know,

or, you know, do the, you know, do the BA 1000,

okay, you know, get the TRD Pro.

But $73,500.

So it's a lot of money.

That's a lot.

You want to guess that the destination charge?

$1,800.

$1,695.

Nicole's closer, $1,450.

Ooh.

Okay.

I lost all.

I was going to say this.

I was going to say lower.

Really blue.

But I was like, it felt like it should be more

because the car was more.

Well, the base price of the four-runner TRD Pro

is $66,900.

That's a lot.

That's a lot of money.

I mean, you know, that's an expensive air compressor.

$1,700 roof rack.

It's a lot of money for a roof rack.

But, you know, if that's what you want,

you know, go for it.

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All right, let's move on to some other stuff.

Let's see.

So we've talked about the EV tax credits ending.

As of today, you have, well, let's see,

basically you've got 30 days left nominally

to buy a new EV or used EV.

If it's at least two years old

and you're buying it from a dealer,

you can get a $4,000 tax credit on a used EV.

And new, you can still get up to $7,500

for the next 30 days.

So September 30th is when it nominally ends.

But this week we found out that the IRS has said

that just as they did the last time around

when they changed from the previous tax credit scheme

to the IRA tax credits,

there was a bunch of cars that lost eligibility

for the tax credits when they switched over to the IRA.

But they said, you know, by this deadline,

if you have a purchase contract in place

and you've paid at least a nonrefundable deposit,

even if you take delivery of the car after the deadline,

you can still claim the tax credit.

And the same is true this time.

So if you're not actually able to take delivery

by September 30th, but you have a signed purchase agreement

and you've paid a nonrefundable deposit towards that,

then you can still get the car,

you can still take delivery after September 30th.

So you could take delivery.

So I'm reading this and if you had a car

that isn't due to come out until next August or something,

if you made one payment and you signed a contract,

would you be okay?

Or just put a deposit down that was nonrefundable?

Like I wonder how long it'll help.

Yeah, I don't think, I don't think they're, you know,

I don't think it, well, it might have to look

at the actual IRS language.

I think it's probably only for stuff that is available now

that's on sale now, but you know, maybe it's in transit,

you know, from the factory or something like that.

So you couldn't deal with a slate.

That's what I'm thinking.

I literally was thinking slate.

That's so funny.

Yeah, I don't, I don't think it's,

I don't think it applies to anything

that is not currently on sale.

I think it's because, well, because that one,

you know, for the slate, for example, you know,

because it has to be something that is on the approved list

because, you know, right now, you know,

it's got to be assembled in North America

and it's got to have a certain percentage

of the battery content that is domestically sourced.

And the, you know, and so until the vehicle

actually goes on sale, the IRS won't even consider

putting it on the list.

The slate is not on the list of approved vehicles.

So the list of approved vehicles is on,

you can find it on fueleconomy.gov.

So yeah, so anything like, like the slate

or, you know, the upcoming Ford electric,

compact electric pickup, things like that,

those will not, you can't get those

because they are not on the approved list.

So it's just stuff that's out now.

But still, though, that gives people,

I don't want to remember to sum another three months

that their vehicle could be in transit or whatever,

four months or whatever, like if it's out now,

you just pay that one payment,

even if you're not getting it for a little bit, you're okay.

Okay.

So exciting.

Do you think that's going to change much for anybody?

I think everybody was kind of tanking up.

I think probably, you know,

what we'll probably see is a rush of,

Tesla, as they've done in the past,

of, you know, taking payments from customers,

you know, on September 29th, September 30th,

you know, and then delivering those vehicles

sometime in October or November,

you know, so people that are ordering a new Tesla,

something like that, they, you know,

that's probably what we'll see,

you know, maybe a few others,

but it's not going to have a huge impact.

But I think, you know,

there are already signs that, you know,

in August, a lot of the EV sales are up significantly

as people are rushing to get something

before the tax credits go away.

So, you know, we'll probably see

a good third quarter for EV sales in the U.S.

and then a pretty notable drop-off

in Q4 before things maybe start to pick up again

a little bit in 2026.

Yeah, because everybody in Q3,

they're like, I'm just going to now.

Yeah, this seems more like,

it'll help those who do direct sales

like Tesla, Ravian, et cetera,

versus like going down to your local dealership

and they're like, yeah,

they barely want to sell you an EV anyway, so.

Unless they have one just sitting on the lot,

they're just desperately trying to get rid of.

I will say that my dealership is actually,

they were actually quite nice to me

and actually quite helpful, so.

The dealer we bought our EV6 from was great too, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, so.

But when we walk in, my wife usually will be like,

oh yeah, he drives cars for a living,

that's his job and that really changes everything.

I'm pretty sure that changes everything very quickly

that I have the advantage versus the average person,

so let's just, I'm not going to pretend like,

oh, I'm just like a regular guy

because my wife puts it into that really quickly.

Speaking of non-electric vehicles,

Ineos, they have cut their prices

on the Grenadier and the Quartermaster

because, you know, slow sales.

Shocker.

Yeah.

So the Grenadier SUV now starts at just $72,600,

down by 7,900 bucks,

and the Quartermaster is down to $86,000,

which is $8,500 less before.

Quartermaster is the pick up.

So you ready to trade in the wagon or S

for a Quartermaster or for a Grenadier?

No, thank you.

Actually, I really like the Grenadier.

I think it's fun, but it's just not.

It's on the round town.

Well, it's a round town if you're not going really quickly.

Yeah, like I wouldn't want a road trip in a Grenadier.

Like if I was just like, that would be not fun.

But I do really like it.

Yeah, exactly.

Robbie's bouncing around in his seat.

I do love it.

I think it's cool.

I think it's very expensive.

I think it's a specific use case.

It's not expensive now, but still goes.

What's that?

That is expensive.

That's a true wagon.

That's true.

This is true.

But a G-Wagon, when you go around a corner

and you, you know, release the steering wheel,

the G-Wagon will self-center.

You don't have to crank the wheel back again

to get going on a straight line.

Oh, I forgot about that.

They do warn you.

They're like, we tell people this is what this is.

I've forgotten that they had said that was part of the experience.

I mean, I do like it, but I...

It's an experience, all right.

I like it for what it is.

I really like it for what it is.

I wish that there was a proper dash cluster

with like not just, you know, check engine lights,

but the speed.

Just put the speed there.

At least a decent display in the center stack.

I don't really care about that.

It's a terrible display.

It's not a very good display.

No, it's a terrible display.

It's not great.

But just put the speed in the middle.

I don't know why that's...

I just...

No, you don't even need a center display.

You have so many buttons in there.

There are a lot of...

There are all these things.

You don't need all those things.

There are a lot.

Like, I'm looking at the picture they have on this of the interior.

It's like, wow, there's a lot on that interior.

I know, but it's like you're flying a jet in the 60s.

It looks supposed to look like a cockpit.

It has a cockpit vibe, which is good.

On the top, there's...

And bad.

Because there's a lot of buttons.

You have a checkpoint.

You have a checklist like you're on a plane.

Exactly.

Yeah, I want to do that when I turn on the car.

Yeah, exactly.

Click, click, click.

You have to file a driver.

I have Ineos to survive, but it's one of the many smaller, less car companies that I worry

about being here.

They've got a big pile of cash behind them.

I know they have a big pile of cash behind them.

It's really until the rich people who own it get bored.

That's it.

So if they get bored, goodbye Ineos.

Goodbye Ineos.

You could get bored.

If you have enough money to start a car company, you could then be like, I want

to start a, I don't know, a private jet company, a boat company.

Yeah.

Tequila, everyone seems to start a liquor company.

Tequila company.

Tequila, their own special whiskey, I don't know.

A clothing line.

Do they have clothing?

No, they have a partnership.

Well, they're petroleum, so they probably have some sort of clothing.

Yeah, they're giant corporations, so they probably have all that stuff already.

And Ineos also owns a one-third stake in the Mercedes Formula One team.

So they've got all the Mercedes F1 merch, so they're gaining from that.

They're doing fine.

I hope they stick around.

I like the folks in Ineos.

They can sell all of these at a loss and still be like,

At this point, I'm pretty sure they are selling all of them at a loss because

Right.

So with this price drop, the Grenadier has a 27.5% tariff rate on it right now.

And then the quartermaster, because it's a pickup truck, also has the chicken tax on top of that.

So you've got another 25%.

So it's got a 52.5% tariff on the quartermaster.

That's a lot.

People are just going to get the Grenadier anyway.

Yeah.

Again, I'm doing the most wonderful off-road.

If you know what you're doing, good enough on the road.

I think most of these are probably being driven around town by the same kind of customers that would buy a G-Wagon.

It's an Instagram car.

Yeah, but want something.

All my neighbors have G-Wagons.

I want something a little bit different.

Yeah.

Just slightly different.

And so they get the quartermaster.

It's not a run-of-the-mill G-Wagon like everybody has.

I talk to them about it.

I'm like, this is either an Instagram car or somebody who lives in Alaska and lives off the grid

and has a lot of angry ramblings about the government.

All right.

Next up, we got the Volvo XC70, which is slightly smaller than an XC90, larger than an XC60, hence the 70.

They get the nesting dolls of SUVs, every size you can get.

Mid-size two-row.

This one was developed in China with the folks, with the, you know, the GLE team.

And it's targeted primarily at the Chinese market.

And it is Volvo's first long-range plug-in hybrid.

They're referring to it as a plug-in hybrid.

I've reached out to Volvo to try and get some clarity on exactly what the powertrain is in this thing,

because none of the stuff that they've released so far has any detail about the powertrain.

You know, is this, you know, the same kind of plug-in hybrid architecture as the other Volvos,

where you've got an engine, an internal combustion engine, transmission driving the front wheels,

electric motor on the rear axle driving the rear wheels,

or is this more of an extended-range EV where the engine only drives a generator?

We don't know.

But it's based on a new scalable modular architecture, which is being shared with other GLE brands.

And in China, it is rated, has an electric driving range of 200 kilometers under the CLTC driving cycle.

So that's about 120 miles.

That's a long range. That's a lot.

And that's, well, that's the China light-duty test cycle, which is, shall we say, optimistic.

So that 120 miles, real world is probably more like 70 to 80 miles.

Which is still significant for a plug-in, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's double, you know, that would be double what you would get with an XC60 or XC90 plug-in hybrid.

You know, those will do about 34, 35 miles on a charge.

But, you know, I'm still trying to find out from Volvo, you know, exactly what this powertrain architecture is.

Because if it is more of an e-rev, then that would make it a lot easier to do the, you know, that full range driving electrically alone.

Because, you know, with an XC9, with the current XC90, XC60, you kind of got to be fairly light on the throttle if you want to keep it in electric mode.

So, no, right now there's no indication that they're going to bring this to the North American market.

Although they probably, it sounds like they are going to offer it in Europe, but it's launching in China.

And, you know, it's the styling, you know, is pretty much pretty similar to, you know, the other current generation Volvos, you know.

It looks like a slightly smaller EX90.

Looks like a Volvo.

Yep.

Looks like a modern Volvo.

I mean, it looks good.

It's an attractive looking car and it's a neat idea.

But he said, we're not going to get it.

It looks like it's China for now with plans for Europe at a later stage.

I don't know what that means, but eventually Europe.

Yeah.

So, let's see.

What else?

What's next?

Oh, back to EVs.

GM has apparently cut production at its Detroit Hamtramek assembly plant, which they refer to as Factory Zero.

This is the factory in Detroit where they build the Hummers, the Hummer EVs and the Silverado and Sierra EVs and the Cadillac Escalade IQ.

They have apparently cut one of the two shifts, at least for now.

Most likely they, you know, they have built enough vehicles to get them through whatever increase in demand that they have right now, you know, until the end of September.

And they probably realize that there's probably going to be a reduction in demand from October 1.

Yeah.

And so they're, you know, they're cutting production for a while.

And then they'll probably wait and see what happens before they call back those workers and resume that production.

And it's going to be really interesting to see how this rolls with the EV tax credit going away.

I feel like a lot of people who are super interested in EVs have already said, okay, we pulled the trigger now or we don't at all.

So they've, I feel like a lot of those people have already committed.

And I just wonder how much I'm really curious how much sales are going to drop off.

Like what's going to be, like if we're really going to see things fall off a cliff or if that's not really enough for most people to keep them from buying EVs.

I don't know.

It's going to be interesting.

Tesla kept selling cars after they lost access to the EV credits years ago.

So I think there's for a certain section of the people are still going to continue to buy EVs.

The Silverado EV had a huge problem, had a huge marketing problem.

First of all, they put out a press release that we're getting rid of the bolt and we're going to build the Silverado.

We're like, what are you doing?

That's not comparable.

That's tone deaf.

The Hummer EV was never going to be a huge seller.

No.

So I think, you know, they're not talking about the Blazer here.

They're not talking about the Lyric.

They're not talking about the Equinox.

I think more and more people, like when I had the Silverado EV, I had people come up to me.

They're like, do you buy that?

I'm like, oh, no.

I'm an automotive.

Blah, blah, blah.

The thing you always tell everybody.

And they're like, you know, it talks to $100,000.

I'm just a drug dealer.

But they're like, you know, it starts at $100,000, which isn't true, but was true

for a little while.

And that's what people think when they see those vehicles.

That's stuck in everyone's head and they haven't been able to ship it.

That's stuck in everyone's head is that this vehicle starts at $100,000.

And it really, you know, they're like, oh, it's not selling as well as it should.

I'm like, yeah, that's kind of your fault.

It kind of blew it.

Market of vehicle wrong and shocker it won't sell.

Yeah.

So that's stuck in everyone's head.

So I think there's a, you know, I think GM sort of blew it.

And also again, big trucks, that market is vroom, vroom.

Truck, rah.

Outside.

I see a lot of Silverado EVs in fleets.

Like Caltrans has them.

Like government fleets up here and in California.

I see them in fleets, which, okay.

Cool.

You're selling those in fleets.

I still think F-150 is a better vehicle just because you can take everything from a regular

F-150 and throw it on the lightning and just keep doing your job.

Keep doing your thing.

Yeah.

So it's, you know, it's, it's, these are very, I think we're, again, we need

to move away from just keep throwing giant expensive over $100,000 EVs into the market

and then wondering why people aren't buying them.

Why people don't buy them?

Because people don't, not everyone can afford or wants or needs a $100,000 car.

Yeah.

It's a lot of money for a car.

Although, you know, we, you know, a couple of weeks ago we were out at the lake and

when the DNR Rangers, Michigan Department of Natural Resources Rangers did their periodic

circulation through the lot there, they were driving a Silverado EV work truck.

And now, you know, when they launched, you know, you had the work truck, the Silverado

work truck for like mid-50s price range.

And then the RST, which was like $94,000.

Now, there are a bunch of other options available with different size batteries and

different option packages.

So you can get, you know, the LT standard range version starting at 63 grand.

The extended range is 70, 71.

And, you know, the max range is still 91,000.

And, you know, and they've got the trail boss now as well.

So there are, you know, it's by no means cheap or affordable, but there are less

expensive variants that are available at retail now.

So, I think a lot of them have done a good job like marketing that though.

People still think it's a $100,000 truck whenever I drive around.

All right, let's move on.

So, non-electric trucks, you know, you got the Ram 1500.

This week, they started shipping the 2026 Ram 1500 HEMIs again.

So they're on their way to dealerships.

So, you know, if you insist on paying more for less power and worse fuel

economy, Ram Scotch covered.

You can go to your local Ram dealer and pick up a Ram 1500 with a 5.7 liter HEMI

in it because boy, it sounds much better.

Well, it's all right.

You can say it's silly and it is silly, but they sold it.

Like, what's the number here?

They announced, since they announced it in June, they've had 10,000 orders

in the first 24 hours.

It's just the branding, man.

I mean, it's got great branding.

So, it's like, it might not be the...

Technically, it's silly, but 10,000 orders in 24 hours says it's a smart move.

I'll be very curious to look at what the numbers look like

at the end of the year for the different variants.

See how that breaks down.

I looked at the YouTube comments for Tim's, whatever, something about the trucks

or whatever, and HEMI.

One of his, whoo-hoo, America, like flag-waving things that he says.

And like all of the comments were like, yeah, bring back the HEMI.

I'm like, people, people, wait.

Stop, everyone.

Hold on a second.

We're not listening.

Okay.

HEMI.

It's great branding if that's who it keeps you.

Lots of people want it.

Give it to them.

Pays the bills.

Keep your car company alive.

Again, the Ram 1500 was the nicest riding trucks out there.

Oh, yeah.

It has been for a long time.

Oh, yeah.

The lighting's probably right up there with it just because it's an EV,

but no, it drives really nice.

And everyone's, yeah, best sir.

So if you want a HEMI, go a little less flower, but it drives real nice.

Boom.

Go ahead and go.

Yep.

All right.

Stalantas also went to the Overland Expo Mountain West in Colorado last week,

and they brought a new concept vehicle with them,

which is probably not what most people expected to see there.

They have, they brought, they brought the new Pacifica Grizzly Peak concept.

It's an off-road, sort of off-road version of the, you know, I mean,

they've got to do off-roading versions of everything else now.

So why not, why not a minivan?

I support this 1000%, by the way.

More than like most of the SUVs, like this makes more sense.

I want a camp inside.

I want a funny little bear badge.

I mean, this would absolutely be better for camping, you know,

and, you know, way better than an SUV.

It would be a much better choice for that.

So they lifted the suspension.

They took a limited all-wheel drive,

lifted the front suspension by 2.75 inches,

two and a half inches in the rear,

put on 31-inch Goodrich KO2 all-terrain tires.

It's got this fancy roof storage rack,

some auxiliary LED lighting,

the retractable awning, roof mounted retractable awning,

fog lamp pods, a protective wrap on the lower part of the body,

and splash guards and a bunch of stuff on the interior as well.

I have exactly one gripe with their choice of this car.

Yes.

We have given her off-road minivan,

which is in the dirt with children, presumably,

a very light gray interior seats.

The seats, they call them cement gray.

They almost look white.

Oh, no, that's a bad seat.

Because what I want with my kids in the dirt.

After doing the dirt.

Yeah, this is a bad seat.

Everything is cool.

I was like, what?

Why do you guys do it?

Like, it's such a cool concept.

But that through me.

I was like, oh.

You're so cost.

Even without kids, if it was just adults,

you're still going to get dirty.

White.

Now the floor is at least black.

But the seats are, again, cement gray.

They're white.

They are so light.

They're white.

So close.

You almost had it.

You almost had it, guys.

But I do like the badge.

Did you see the little bear badge?

It's got a little bear.

A little grizzly concept.

Oh, my God.

It's orange seatbelts.

I know the orange seatbelts are cool.

That also gets like a gold star.

Orange seatbelts.

Color seatbelts are cool.

They should.

This car should be a different color.

Yes.

It should be pumpkin orange.

This should be pumpkin orange.

What do they say with the exterior color?

It's just gray.

It's gray.

It's probably like Slater.

Is it also cement?

Let's see.

Something.

Why would you call it cement?

Arctose.

Wait.

It's called Arctose.

A-R-K-T-O-S matte finish paint with foreshadow accents.

Oh, because the thing you really want when you're going off-road is matte finish

paint.

How do you gotta wash that?

Okay.

Well, keep going.

Keep going.

Keep in mind, this is a concept.

It's not a real thing.

It's meant to get people's attention at this.

It is.

At this show.

It should have been orange.

If you want, I'll include a video from TFL where they do a walk around at Overland

Expo.

Some of the crazy rigs that they have there are just bonkers.

It's the kind of stuff that my neighbor's been building, which is he bought last year,

bought an F550 chassis cab and put a big bet on it and a liquid spring suspension.

Oh, my God.

You're right.

He's got a big camper that goes on the back.

There's some just insane rigs that show up at Overland Expo.

It's also all the companies that make all this gear for upfitting your vehicles.

This is purely a concept for now, but it's like actually, it's super cool.

The idea of this is very, very cool.

Yeah.

I would just change the color a little bit.

If they're going to keep the Chrysler brand alive for a while and all they have is

minivans to sell, you might as well do something like this that's going to at

least if you can sell it, get some better margins on it and get a few more people

into minivans.

When you think about how the off-road thing like once upon a time, it was all like

performance versions of sports cars is what was the iteration that everyone now it's

all the off-road version of SUVs.

Like, well, let's give an off-road version of a minivan and see what happens.

Oh, I know.

It should be Tuscadero pink like they had on the Wrangler.

Keep mansion roll it up to carpool and that thing.

That would rock.

That would be amazing.

That's good to know.

Concept color scheme.

Well, back to orange Mercedes took their AMG GTXX concept to the Nardo test track in

southern Italy recently.

So this is kind of a next generation of the AMG GT four door.

And there's there's a production version of this coming next year, I think that's

right.

Yeah, I think so.

And they took it to they took it to Nardo and set a bunch of records with this thing,

25 different long distance records.

They ran for eight days and seven days and 13 hours they ran for set 25 distance

records.

It's equipped with three actual flux motors, which is a different different design of electric

motor that produces more power and torque.

And the the AMG is probably going to be one of the first production vehicles to use the

use this type of motor over 1340 horsepower and this thing over the course of a little

over seven and a half days.

They let's see, they ran a grand total of 40,000 kilometers.

So about 24,000 miles.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

Basically just, you know, stopping to charge and swap drivers periodically.

In one 24 hour period, where was was the distance here for that?

Oh, this is a huge team of drivers, too.

Yeah.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17.

Well, they were running it.

I mean, Nardo is.

17.

Yeah.

Nardo is this giant circular track.

It's about six miles across and or six miles around, I should say.

And you know, the companies use it for maximum speed testing.

And you know, so they were running, you know, just flat out, you know, and it's a high bank

to track.

They ran 55, almost 5478 kilometers.

So over over almost 4,000 miles in a 24 hour in a single 24 hour period.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

So yeah, they were, they were cranking up the miles on this thing.

This is an impressive little feat that they did here.

Yeah.

Very, very fast charging on there.

They were charging at 850 kilowatts.

Wow.

Wowza.

Yeah.

Just five minutes.

It can recharge enough energy for a range of around 400 kilometers.

So that's about, about 250 miles.

So they just enough time for someone to get out, get in and go.

Pretty much.

That's just gas.

Five minutes is gas.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's see.

Lucid is apparently doing some updates for 2028 or 2026.

They're launching a rear wheel drive version of the gravity.

And you know, hopefully the gravities will actually start getting to customers soon.

There hasn't been many of those yet.

Got to build them.

Well, apparently there's a bunch of them built that they haven't delivered yet.

Something to miss in.

Yeah.

The only as fast as your slowest supply.

Yeah.

And they're also doing some updates to the air for 2026.

They've upgraded the battery.

So the standard range battery now is 92 kilowatt hour pack.

I think it was about 84 or 88 before.

It pops the, they've got newer higher density cells in there.

431 miles of range with the rear wheel drive.

So that's 20, 25 more than before.

So many miles.

And yeah.

And we mentioned before that they now have compatibility with superchargers.

Although you probably want to avoid charging an air at a supercharger.

It's fine with the gravity because they changed the way the charging system works on that

on the air.

But the gravity or the air, it's got to do a funky thing with actually taking the DC from

the supercharger and then converting that to AC and charging over the AC circuitry.

And it only charges at about 40 kilowatts if you're charging from a supercharger.

So not really worth it if you can avoid it.

Not what you want to do.

Yeah.

They'll fix that.

So they'll have to be an update at some point for that, obviously.

But you know, they're doing the same thing with the gravity that Hyundai is doing where

they're using the motor to do the, so it actually charges quicker.

But still not as quick as just going to DC fast charging.

And literally everywhere else who hasn't decided at 500 kilowatts is how much, you know, what

we want our charging setup to be.

Yeah.

And then Toyota announced that they're partnering up with Hyundai on some robotics work.

So Hyundai owns Boston Robotics, which is the company behind the Atlas humanoid robot that's

been dancing around for more than a decade.

The scary robot dog.

Doing all kinds of parkour.

Parkour.

Yeah.

And also the spot, the, as you said, the scary robot dog that Hyundai is actually using to

do quality control in their meta plant in Savannah.

That spot looks smaller.

Wasn't there really big version of the Boston Dynamics dog at one point that was like big

and big?

I thought there was a bigger one.

So I've seen the dog working at the plant in Singapore.

And so it walks up to something and then looks up to double check it.

And then it opens like its mouth to look at it.

I don't know.

That's so terrifying.

It's like.

It's the opening of the mouth or it's not a mouth, obviously, but the opening of

something that on the end of its head to take a picture that makes it just a little

bit more creepy.

It's a little creepy.

Yeah.

So they've got the latest version of Atlas, the humanoid robot or bipedal robot.

Let's call it that.

Because it's not really humanoid.

Bipedal.

It's very engineering of you.

Bipedal is what we're called.

The two-legged stand-up robot.

They're working with the team from Toyota Research Institute.

And TRI has developed some new AI models, something they call a large behavior model.

And so Boston Robotics is going to incorporate the AI stuff that TRI has been working on into

the control strategy for the robots.

So that should make them even scarier.

Yay, finally.

Oh, by the way, I'm not wrong.

What I'm thinking of is Boston Dynamics has something called the Big Dog.

Oh, yeah.

That's the scary one.

That's the one I was thinking that's horrifying.

It was made to like, I don't know, like an off-road mobility dog.

That's the one that they kicked, isn't it?

I think so.

There's a video of someone from Boston Dynamics kicking the dog to show that it can't

get knocked over.

They kick it really hard.

I'm like, oh, you're the first man in the robot.

I know.

Like, Skynet's coming for you, buddy.

Big Dog is scary.

Yeah.

That's the one I was thinking of.

I'm like, that terrifies me.

Even Google me now.

I'm like, I swear there was a big one.

Yeah, Big Dog.

Yeah.

Big dogs.

Big dogs about the size of a donkey.

Yeah.

Big Dog is big and he's scary.

He's not, like, spot.

Spot is cute except when he opens his mouth and looks like he's going to bite your head

off.

But Big Dog is just scary.

Just sitting there.

All right, Robbie, you paid a visit to our friends at Slate.

I did.

I went.

I got on a plane.

I got on another plane.

And then I went to Warsaw, Indiana, a small town in northern-ish Indiana.

And then I went to the Warsaw plant, which used to be a printing plant.

So this plant, it was our Donnelly and Sons printing in Warsaw, Indiana.

They used to print the JCPenney catalogs, the Sears catalog, my favorite, the Radio

Shack catalog.

Oh, my gosh.

Sears catalog.

I hope they did the Sears Christmas catalogs because my grandmother would send us that and

we could pick something every year.

You'd mark all the pages.

Yeah.

And so, but we were really weird kids because we, yeah, anyway.

So we, we, we, we, we, we trucked on out to there and I talked to Chris Barman and

I talked to the CEO, not sorry, the North American president of SK On, which I kept

referring to as SK One, even though I know it's SK On, I had to apologize.

I'm like, I would say one and then I, I'm sorry, it's on.

But it's, it's, it's just one step closer to what, you know, Slate says they're going

to do, you know, in a year from now, they're going to start production at this facility.

Right now there's really nothing in there.

It's just a big, empty facility.

They start to put everything in there.

They put the lines in.

You got to do tooling.

They have one year to pull all this off that they're going to start production in Q4 of

2026.

And they say, you know, it's, it's a 1.4 million square foot facility, which is actually

too small for an average car.

It's just not enough room, but they're not doing stamping.

They don't have a paint shop.

They don't have, you know, there's, you know, instead of, they talked about

how, you know, the average pickup has five to 6,000 parts.

This vehicle only has 600 parts.

And so, you know, when you, when you really break that down, like, oh, it's going

to be cheaper because of less parts, but it's that six, having fewer parts has pays

off in dividends for everything.

That means you, you have fewer suppliers of the deal.

Do you have fewer fewer invoices?

You have fewer, you know, inventory, you have small, you know, all these

things just keep making the vehicle cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

I did ask about the Ford.

I asked the CEO, Chris Barman, about the upcoming Ford.

And I can hear, I can read it exactly what she said.

Well, we've been working to solve the problem, the affordability problem,

but in a very different way and in a different approach.

We think that we're bringing, what we're bringing to offer to the market is

different from what Ford is doing.

And we think they're going to be a lot of people out there that love the

fact they can get to a blank slate.

And over time, they can accessorize it to become what they want it to be.

Which is sort of the big sort of selling point when I talk to

regular people about this vehicle.

It's very, I find it very interesting.

People either A, have no idea what I'm talking about when I mention slate

or B, they're extremely excited.

And these are just regular people.

This is the automotive press.

They're like, oh my God, this is, you know, the people are hungry

for an inexpensive EV that doesn't have all the other things.

That to be honest, I don't think most people are really using.

And so, yeah, nobody uses the radio.

That's it.

Well, you can put it, well, here's the thing is you have a whole, you know,

generation of people who did aftermarket installs for years.

I mean, that was one of my deals was I would put in car stereos.

And I had a big car stereo in my Honda Civic.

I could 3D print a din holder and then put it in there.

And boom, now I have my car stereo.

It's very much a DIY car.

They're very upfront about that.

They talked about how, you know, working with the local, state

and government in order to get the place up and running.

It was interesting that they had a Congressperson House

Representative who voted for the big, big, beautiful bill,

but who was a champion of Slate.

I'm like, well, that's OK.

Fine. I mean, that is that is pretty much standard operating procedure.

Whenever you go to the launch of any factory, you know, car factory

or anything else, you know, I've seen this for nearly 20 years now.

You know, every every local, state and federal politician

that is in any way related to it,

particularly the ones that voted against the funding

that that made this happen in the first place, they, you know,

they will still show up and take credit for it being there in their district

because they want to be there, you know, for, you know, for the people

that that are voting to say, hey, look, we brought jobs to our district,

you know, but you voted against the funding that made this possible.

Yeah, but we brought jobs to our district.

They're all a bunch of hypocrites.

Yeah. So it's Slate says they're going to have up to two thousand

over two thousand new jobs for the area, which is great.

The facilities near train, you know, train lines.

It was a, you know, it was a hub where people where, you know,

they had to send out stuff.

Those those magazines, those catalogs out to all over the country.

So it does make sense.

They're not too far from Michigan and Detroit.

Yeah, no, it was it was, you know, again, any automotive startup,

you always have to be like, well, we'll see.

And that's where I am with with Slate.

To be honest, that's where I am right now with Ford and their their their tiny truck.

So the tiny truck things, I'm like, well, let's let's see.

They did still no pricing.

I know people are always asking me, well, how much is it going to cost?

How much is the cost for a wrap?

How much is this?

They just put up a thing that said mid 20s, 26, 27 is, you know, a mid 20.

And so next year, we've seen the vehicle

and the wraps, I believe, are going to be like, I heard.

This is this is not, you know, probably not going to be.

This is an official, but probably about five hundred bucks for a wrap.

Yeah, I think that's what they said at the launch.

Yeah, so it's not it's that's really cheap compared to your average wrap.

And then they just send it to you and like the video and you can wrap your own car.

Yeah, so yeah, it'll be, you know, again, I still think it's a very interesting vehicle.

It really scratches an itch that I have about having a very inexpensive

EV that I can do whatever I want to.

I can 3D print stuff for it.

I don't have to, you know, it's it's when you're for it.

The Ford electric shows up what it shows up as.

That's what it is forever.

You know, you can do software updates.

You can do, you know, add some accessories on.

But that's what it is.

The slate shows up to your house.

You're like, OK, I got a truck.

You know what? I need an SUV.

No, I want an open air where I just have the roll cage in the back and seats.

So I want, you know, I want to go to the beach and have my friends jump in the back

like we're, I don't know, in an 80s surf romcom.

I don't know.

Gene movie, you can just sort of and it's all you don't have to do it

like when you get the car, you can just add things as you have more money

as you you find that your life has changed.

It's still just a two door vehicle.

I think that's one of the things that I think some people are going to be a little

like, oh, but to be honest, we all drove a lot of two door vehicles up

until like the 2000s when everyone's like, you know what?

Every car should have four doors.

It should be easy to get in and out of the car.

You should have to put the seat for it.

So, yeah, no, let's see.

Do I have any other things?

No, that's probably about it.

Yeah, you know, they got a we got a year.

We'll see what happens.

It's going to be an interesting year.

You know, when I heard about the IRS thing, I thought, well, maybe this

will help slate the thing is, is that now everyone's on the same

playing field before, you know, everyone had a, you know, if you had

a certain if you're under a certain price point, if you made, you know,

a certain amount of money, you can get the tax credit.

Now that's gone.

People who are, you know, maybe on their, maybe on their second EV,

they're just going to buy that EV still, they bought the EV.

They're probably just going to buy another one.

There are people who are still like, I still want an EV, but I want

something inexpensive.

So I think slate the leaf, the bolt, and potentially this Ford, if Ford

can keep the price down and not raise it 36% like it did with the Maverick

or is it 38% whatever.

That's not till the second model year.

Yeah.

Second model year.

So if you, if you do want that for, you should get it

like right away because it's going to go up.

The price is going to, and who knows, I mean, I'd slate my, you

know, they, never when they'll talk about tariffs because

they, no one wants to, they don't want to talk about politics, but

they just only get in the rate, you know, in the crosshairs of

this administration because it's a vindictive administration.

If you say, well, you know, tariffs are making our things go up.

Suddenly you have, you know, problems, so many problems,

which is unfortunate.

That's not how the government should work.

You should be able to say, yeah, they did this and now it's

going to cost us a lot of money.

And the government should be like, well, sucks to be you as opposed

to, you know what, I'm going to make a point of going after you.

So with the, you know, they're not going to have a stamping shop in the factory.

No stamping.

Are they going to do the welding?

So are they going to get the stampings from a supplier and weld that

up in the factory?

Are they going to have a body shop in there or?

I'm assuming they didn't, we didn't get that far with that.

We didn't get that much information, unfortunately, or I didn't get it.

I had to leave early.

I didn't, yeah, because I had to go see the Pixies.

Well, you got to have your priorities.

I did my interviews with the president of SK on and the CEO of Slate.

And I stayed there and I was there for the presentation.

And I saw the outside of the factory.

And then I was said, okay, so what's inside the factory?

Is it just a big empty space?

And they're like, well, yeah, I'm like, okay, I should go then

because I have a two o'clock flight and it's now 12 30.

You know, like, yeah, you can, you can, you'll be fine.

You can go.

So, yeah, yeah.

I mean, at this stage, I mean, that's, it's like, you know,

when we, when I visited the Ford Marshall battery plant, you know,

it is mostly at the time it was still mostly an empty building

apart from all the air handling equipment and utilities were in there.

But none of the production equipment was installed yet.

That's actually now being installed.

But yeah, I think over the next several over the next, you know,

probably six to six to nine months, you know, they'll start

they'll get that equipment installed.

You know, if they want to start production, you know, Q4 next year,

they're going to, they're really, they're going to have to have

that stuff installed by at least early summer of next year to go

through pilot production and, you know, get everything debugged and everything.

Yeah.

I really think they've probably started doing stuff as soon as we all left.

Yeah, you can't have you can have people in there while you're doing

that, you know, in order to, because you would have to stop what you're

doing, you know, create a path where people aren't going to electrocute

themselves or, you know, get smashed by something, make everyone wear hard hat,

do all the high vis, the whole shebang.

It's the, and the value of that is like, oh, look at stuff.

Yeah, it's kind of, it's cool to do factory tours, but it's also it's

more cool when the factory is actually finished.

Yeah.

And stuff happening.

Yeah, as opposed to big space.

Yeah, big empty space is cool.

We know you have the space.

Good for you.

I know they worked really hard trying to find a space.

I asked because, because the CEO, she's from Indiana.

So I'm like, does it have it?

She's like, no, no, I didn't have any, any, any, you know, it just happened.

This just happened to be the place.

What's cool is that it says, he's not printing catalogs anymore.

You know, that space was available.

Yeah, it was the space was available.

So the room that we were in the sort of gathering room, they

want to make that a customer service side sort of center.

But they were also talking about, you could take delivery of your slate

from that, from the factory.

If you do that, will they waive the delivery charge?

I asked, they have not gotten there.

Like, we've got to check on that because they do.

Like, if it's 1500 bucks, you're like, well, if I get the higher

battery one, I could fly out to Indiana, take it, you know, for a

couple hundred bucks and then drive my slate across country.

I realize I didn't bring a Bluetooth speaker and then like, just

sing to myself like that.

But, you know, if you, if you, if you have flown from, from SFO

out to Warsaw, Indiana, chances are you've got some earbuds.

I can't imagine you got on an airplane without earbuds.

I forgot, you know what?

I forgot my earbuds getting on the plane because I have

refused to buy them and then my wife bought me some, but I

forgot them.

So I forget them a lot because they're, they're relatively

new thing, mostly.

And also you can't use Bluetooth to like make music

because the latency.

That's what I do a lot of, yeah.

So if I'm on a plane, I'm either riding or I'm trying to

like work on music stuff and yeah.

All right, let's wrap up with a couple of listener emails.

Well, first off, before we do that, Nicole, are there any

Wagon Air S updates?

Is there anything we should know about?

No, I've been driving it for a couple of weeks now since I

last got it back and I've had no problems.

I took it on a road trip yesterday at Portsmouth.

I took it on a road trip like a week or so before that.

I started it and stopped it many times.

And it restarted every time.

Actually, I have to be honest, this is our thing.

I really love this car.

Just it needs to go.

Like it needs to function, it needs to do the going part.

So far so good.

So and in fact, I was with my brother-in-law and his

wife and a friend of theirs and we all piled in.

I'm on a road trip yesterday and he was asking about

the car and I was telling him, he's like, wait, are you

telling him you're taking us all the way up to the, to

the sea coast in a car?

You're not confident we'll start like maybe.

Maybe, John, let's see how this goes.

I'm taking you all the way there.

Whether we get back is another question entirely.

I definitely am taking you there, whether we return

together in one vehicle, but it was fine.

And it was actually really nice to drive.

It was, it was a nice road trip and it was really, I

really enjoyed it.

I am, I am very torn about this car.

I know the reliability here has been garbage, but I

really enjoyed driving it.

And I'm trying to think if I got a different car, what

I would get.

And the thing is, nothing else is, is singing to

me the way this was.

So for the moment, for the moment, I'm still in the

wagon near us and it is still little, it's functioning

just perfectly.

All speakers working and everything too.

All the random speakers that stopped working started

working.

So everything, the speakers work, the, I still

have to have the, I have an appointment scheduled to

get the body damage fixed when they towed it and

they screwed it up because apparently it's

incredibly hard to get parts for this car.

They just don't have a lot of parts.

So I don't know, I feel like I'm going to be, you

can't really tell unless you know the parts are

missing on the bottom because it really evenly

ripped the black plastic trim off in one fell swoop.

So unless you know it's missing, you don't know

it's missing.

So yeah, so I have some that to fix.

But otherwise, the wagon near us is doing just fine

right now and I'm enjoying it.

Hopefully I say the same thing next week.

We'll see.

I think this is what I'm going to knock on it

for you.

Yeah, thank you.

I have a wood desk too.

Yeah.

Everybody listening, knock on wood for me please.

Everyone's dog is freaking out now.

Sorry.

Okay.

Emails.

Andy in New Jersey.

What do you think about the longevity of

Android Automotive and new cars?

I picked up my first EV two years ago and one

of the contenders was the Polestar 2.

One of the main reasons I didn't pick this

car was because of Android Automotive and the

worry that Google would get bored of it and

discontinue it like they're famous for doing.

Google, Google discontinuing products.

I don't think that's ever happened.

Google like, okay, first of all, Google will

say yes to everything.

And then once they're like a bunch of people

are using it like, yeah, we don't want to do that

no more.

It retains your mind.

Retains their mind.

We're all still using Google Reader, right?

Wave.

Whatever the messaging is called now.

They've changed the name like 15 times.

Well, I have Google Meet and Google Chat on

my phone and on my MacBook.

You're not even sure which one to use, are you?

Google Music was the best music player when

it came out.

Google Music because you could play, you

could stream music plus you could like, you

could have your own music in there.

So you can have like playlists with

streams, songs plus your own songs.

It was really easy to use.

It didn't, it wasn't to have all this

stupid whizbang features that makes it

impossible to manage.

It was amazing and they killed it for

YouTube music and YouTube music is crap.

It was the best RIP Google Music.

So I, yeah.

So I get it, Andy.

I get it.

Yeah.

Anyway, continuing on, Andy says it's

looking more and more car, looking like

more and more cars are going with

Android Automotive though.

Are they getting enough tracking

info from it to keep it going?

I'm in an almost exclusively Apple

ecosystem.

And if it wasn't for YouTube, I wouldn't

even have a Google account.

Keep up the great work.

Should we think so?

I guess, I mean, they have, so here's

the thing is like all of the other

things, it was just Google.

They didn't have partnerships.

They didn't have contracts.

They didn't have like, you know,

like there has to be some sort of

in order for people, in order for

automakers to use it, they have to

have something from Google that

says they're going to support this

for 10, 15, whatever.

I don't know what the contract

they say, but I hope that they

said that, but you have to support

these vehicles for at least 15 years.

And automakers are paying Google

to use Google Automotive services.

So, you know, Maps and

Google Assistant and the Play Store

that, you know, for the automakers

that are using Google services,

they they are paying Google a

fee to do that.

That's why, for example, there are

some cars like the Nissan Kix

where the base version of the Kix

does not have Android Automotive

system. It's got the same hardware

underneath, but it's using

Nissan's own in-house

infotainment system.

Stop.

My phone.

Google Gemini just woke up on my

phone and started.

I thought I was asking it a question.

Anyway, you know, so because

of the price point of the base Kix,

Nissan opted not to include

Android Automotive and Google

services on that version of it.

If you get the other trim levels,

so that's on the SR, I think, or

no, the the S and the SV and

SR trims have the Google services

because they're those are a little

more expensive and and Nissan

has factored in the cost

of that to to the

price point. And the same is true

for other automakers that are

using the Google services.

So Google is getting some revenue

for this, at least for the

companies that are using Google

services like Polestar.

So hopefully that'll be enough

to, you know, to keep them in the

game. And as you said, you know,

hopefully their contracts with the

automakers, you know, the automakers

are saying, if if we're going to

use this, you have to continue

supporting this for at least

the next 15 years or whatever.

Yeah, so thank you.

All right. Yeah, I get all you can

just get the slate like

me and I have to worry about it.

No modem. They can't track you.

They can't track you, Andy.

I got a lot of thoughts about

no modem. I'm very excited about

that.

All right. And then we also got

a follow up email from John W,

who we talked about answers

question last week about

adapters, charging adapters.

He he despite

Nicole's horror stories, Nicole,

I don't know if you listened to

this, but he went ahead

and and leased a wagon

or S as well.

And using the free to

move app for charging

was was less than magical.

But the follow up here

says, thanks again for pointing me

in the right direction with the

adapter. It was a big help.

And I really appreciate you being

such a valuable resource.

So, you know, we I recommended

a couple of NAACS to CCS adapters

and says I did run into one snag.

I was hopeful you could clarify

when I try to locate a nearby

Tesla superchargers through the

app, that's the Tesla app.

None of the stations close to

my house like Wawa or other local

spots. And John

lives somewhere in the general

vicinity of Philadelphia

are showing up as available.

The only ones appearing are 10 to

20 miles out.

And I was looking at the the

supercharger map and

for some reason, there's

a whole bunch of superchargers

across the Delaware River in New

Jersey, but not so many on the

Pennsylvania side of the river.

Not sure why that is, but anyway,

and also in the app,

the Jeep Avenger, which isn't

even sold here in the US is the

only Jeep listed.

Do you use the free to move

app, Nicole?

I haven't used it.

Honestly, I have not used the free

to move app. So I

I have I have no experience.

So I can't say that.

Yeah. So they've apparently Jeep

or Stalantis has not apparently

updated the app to include

the Avenger or I don't know

if the I haven't looked at it.

I don't know if the the

chargers listed in there either.

And when I tried entering a

generic vehicle in the profile

with 300 miles of range, I

still couldn't get the local

stations to populate.

And my limited in my ability to

use the superchargers with this

car, even though I have the adapter

or is there a tip or trick I

might be missing on the setup side.

So I think what's happening

here is that

most of the the charger

the chargers that are

that are in in John's

vicinity that are not

showing up in the app are

probably older version to

superchargers

because those do not support

charging non Tesla vehicles.

The Tesla has decided

you know, we're not going to update

the software in those vehicles to

support non Tesla vehicles.

They're only the version three

and version four dispensers

are compatible with non Tesla's.

So that that would be my

speculation about what's happening

why they're not showing up

because in in the Tesla app

if you select, you know, that

you're charging another EV,

it'll only show you the chargers

that are actually compatible

with charging a non Tesla vehicle.

Robbie, you got any other thoughts

on this one?

Yeah, it's it's their name

might just be older chargers.

So that yeah, they're they're not

the number three

or the yeah.

So that that's probably the issue.

And this is I'm assuming

you also looked in the Tesla app

when he says to use that.

Yeah, so that would give us,

you know, the most up to date

information for that.

Yeah, I'm clicking around

Philadelphia right now

with chargers and I'm seeing a lot

of to tell me what

there's a whole cluster of them

across the Delaware River in New

Jersey, but but not so many

on the on the Pennsylvania side.

Yeah, it might yeah, they might

you know, some of them are

getting I would hope, you know,

Tesla makes money when people

plug into their charging stations.

So I think, you know, these really

just kind of replace the the box

and have to replace the the the

back end, the big giant.

The cabinets, cabinets.

Yeah, it was another word

but I couldn't remember it.

He's making this big motion.

I had my hands all open,

like really wide.

But yeah, so yeah, that's

I mean, that's that's unfortunate.

I mean, it's that's sort of

the the crux of being like an

early, you know, getting those

chargers out as quickly as

possible is that, you know,

they had different versions and

they worked for the Tesla's.

And now that they're trying to

work with other ones and

they're probably not going to work.

They're I don't know what

the other charging situation is

around your area.

E.B. Go.

Well, try America.

Typically those are cheaper

than the Tesla chargers.

Yeah, to be honest, they're

usually Tesla charges

non premium for non Tesla

dollars. Yeah, it's like

10 cents more sometimes

per kilowatt hour, which is,

you know, you're putting up,

you know, 50 kilowatt hours.

That's, you know, five bucks

more for your for your vehicle.

I think that's how the math works.

And so yeah, yeah, so yeah,

it's it's it's a bit of a premium.

It's probably going to charge

a little bit slower than those

other charging stations.

But because there's so many

of them at those stations,

typically, especially with the new

ones, like, you know, this

one is like six plugs.

I'm like, oh, that's like a

level, you know, but you go to

some Tesla stations like 40.

Yeah, 40 chargers.

Well, just sort of that's that's

the one in California now

is like 120 dispensers.

Yeah, they're like spread out

over two different like pieces

of property and stuff.

Yeah, we the only time I've had

issues driving up and down the

state and myonic five just

using EA because it's free

free driving for Robbie was

over on Christmas, like the day

after Christmas, we were driving

back and we had to wait like an

hour to charge.

And then I leaned over and I

told my wife to like, you know,

if we had to the adapter, we

could just go to that chest.

It wasn't this, you know, she's

like, what the fuck?

So that's when it really pays off

to be able to to access that

that network is the ability to

when it's really busy, you can

probably find you can probably

still find a charging station

at the Tesla the Tesla location

versus EA, which is, you know,

when we put 10, like, oh,

guys, come on.

Yeah, well, like where I am

here, you know, I'm just

outside of Ann Arbor, Michigan

and the supercharger station

that's actually closest to me

here is relatively new.

It was just put in in late 2023

and that one actually even has

Magic Docks, but

that one works fine with

adapters or with the Magic

Dock on everything I've tried.

Every every EV I've tried from

every bunch of different brands

works fine.

But the the one that's on the

other side of Ann Arbor

was actually the very first

supercharger station in

Michigan.

And so it's it's like 10 years

old. And it's an old version

two charger.

And that one does not work with

non Tesla vehicles, even with

an adapter.

I've tried.

I've taken them the Maki

with the same thing.

So I'm like, I'm just going to

try and see what happens.

And it's like, no, we told

you it wouldn't work.

I'm like, you're not the boss

of me.

And then it didn't work.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I try when when

they first when they first

launched the supercharger

access on Fords last year,

you know, they sent sent over

a Maki for a couple of days

with the Tesla adapter,

which is what they were shipping

at the time.

And, you know, so I use using

the official Tesla adapter

on the Maki that wouldn't even

talk to them.

Didn't think there was anything

there.

It's like, I don't know what

you're doing.

I don't know what's going on.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Sorry about that, John.

But it does sound like this.

Those might be older

Tesla stations.

That's your there's nothing

you can do.

Yeah.

We tried.

We tried to.

We tried yelling.

We tried shaking, crying,

pleading, nothing worked.

Yeah.

All right.

While while we were having

that discussion here,

Nicole was messing around

with the free to move app

on her phone.

Nicole, tell us what you

what you just said.

OK, this this app is not

great.

So first of all, it has

I have two wagonnier

S's on here.

One of them is mine

with the correct VIN.

And I know it's mine

with the correct VIN

because I've given my VIN

that many times to people

over the phone now.

She's she's one more

I start VIN everyone.

I know the last 17 digit number.

And I'm like, I'm looking at the end

of the digits.

So I'm like, yep, that's mine.

But then there's another one

that's a wagonnier is

with nothing that's under a sheet

like it's about to be revealed.

That's listed as my main car.

And I switched it.

And it's like, are you sure?

I'm like, yes, I do, in fact,

want to switch it to my actual vehicle.

And then I'm trying to find

locations where there's charging.

And I it got me into Boston

and it's showing me Boston Logan

Airport, which I I know fairly well.

And when I click on that,

it shows me there is one thing

available, one one charging station.

And it is available and there has

to be like 30 or 40 at the airport.

There could be nothing available,

but there's more than one there.

There's it's like a whole wall.

Level six, Section AA.

There's a whole bunch of them.

I know where they are.

This what is happening with this app?

I to I to John.

I had to look at John.

I to him confused.

I'm going to play with this again

this week and see if I can figure it out.

But literally where we're talking about,

I'll just download this and see what it does for me.

Like, what is happening?

So this app is a little confusing.

Just a skosh, wonky.

I think I get my six hundred dollar credit is on there.

I figured out how to do that.

Have that all loaded up.

Now you just got to figure out how to actually use it.

I just got to figure out how to use it.

Well, there's no chargers.

So you never have to use that credit.

It looks like I can use it in any charge point location

is what it's telling me.

So I guess I'm just going to go charge a charge point

chargers from on the go.

That's my new plan.

If you can find one of the charges over 50 kilowatts.

If I can.

Yeah, I'll have to play with it.

I will play with this now over this week

just to see what happens.

All right.

Thank you.

Well, thanks everybody for listening

and we'll talk to you all next time.

Bye. Bye.

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