The Porsche Cayman is a sporty car that has its engine in the middle, which helps it handle really well on the road. It's a fun car to drive and is often seen as a less expensive option compared to the more famous Porsche 911.
The Porsche 911 is a classic sports car that has been around since the 1960s and is famous for its unique shape and powerful performance. Many people love it for how well it drives and its status as a luxury car.
Oil leaks happen when oil escapes from the engine, which can cause problems if not fixed. It's important to keep an eye on oil levels to avoid engine damage.
Fuchs wheels are special wheels made for Porsche cars that are known for being lightweight and stylish. Many people love them for how they look and perform.
Hot rodding is when people change and improve their cars to make them faster and more fun to drive. This can include making the engine stronger or changing the way the car handles.
The Porsche 959 is a fast sports car made by Porsche in the late '80s and early '90s. It had cool features like all-wheel drive and a powerful engine, making it very special.
The Porsche 964 Turbo is a version of the 911 made between 1990 and 1994. It has a turbocharged engine, which makes it faster and more exciting to drive compared to older models.
The Porsche 964 RS is a special, lighter version of the 911 made in the early '90s. It's known for being fun to drive and is popular with car collectors.
FD Motorsports is a business that makes and sells parts to make cars go faster or look better, especially for Porsches. They help car enthusiasts customize their vehicles.
Fister Exhaust is a company that makes special exhaust systems for cars, especially Porsches. These exhausts help the car sound better and can make it perform better too.
The Porsche 982 is part of the 718 series, which are sporty cars that handle well and look great. They have engines in the middle of the car, which helps with balance and performance.
Air-cooled engines use air to keep them cool instead of water. This was common in older Porsches, making them unique compared to many modern cars that use water for cooling.
The Nissan Skyline GT-R is a powerful sports car known for its speed and performance. It has a strong following among car enthusiasts and is famous for its racing capabilities.
The Nissan GT-R is a super-fast sports car that is famous for its incredible speed and advanced technology. It's known for being one of the best performance cars you can buy.
The 'GTR effect' is when cars are designed to be super fast and have lots of technology, sometimes making them less fun to drive for people who enjoy a more hands-on experience.
The Porsche Boxster is a small convertible sports car that you can drive with the top down. It's known for being fun to drive and is often seen as a more affordable option compared to the 911.
Rust is what happens to metal when it gets wet and starts to break down. It's a big problem for old cars because it can make them unsafe and hard to fix.
The hot rod scene is a community of car enthusiasts who love to modify and customize cars to make them faster or look cooler. It's all about personal style and creativity with vehicles.
Restoration means fixing up an old car to make it look and work like it did when it was new. This can include a lot of work, like painting and fixing parts.
Over-spray is when paint accidentally gets on parts of the car that weren't supposed to be painted. It can make the car look messy and might need to be cleaned up.
A driver's car is a type of car that is really fun to drive. It's built for people who enjoy the experience of driving rather than just getting from one place to another.
Paint on a car is the colored coating that makes it look nice and protects the metal underneath from rust and damage. It's important for both looks and protection.
The Porsche 944 is a sporty car that was made in the 1980s and early 1990s. It's known for being fun to drive and is often considered a good option for people who want to own a Porsche without spending too much money.
LIVE
Welcome to Porsche Patter with Bracken Helms, the show where we hear Bracken and his distinguished
guests from the Porsche community patter on about Porsches and all things automated.
Porsche Patter is sponsored by Circuit 6-4. Circuit 6-4 creates authentic automotive apparel made
for life-minded automotive enthusiasts. The links for Circuit 6-4 are in the shown notes. Okay,
let's get to it.
Pedering on with Bill Helms, part six. Alright, so here's another one with me talking to my dad.
And this one, I asked him, you know, whether he prefers the 964 or 993. And at one point,
I talk about buying a 993 or a 964 RS. Obviously, I'm talking about an RS America,
but we were blabbering back and forth quickly, so I just said RS. He knew what I was talking about,
but I'm talking about an RS America because they were cheap back then or enough to where I could
have bought one. It sure as hell wasn't an real RS. I can't afford that, especially back then.
And then at another point, I ask about Darren Fister. I wonder if he likes his 964 or 993
better because he now has a 964. Well, he's since sold his 964, so I guess that answers that
question. I'm pretty sure he still has the 993, not that it's stocked by any means. Then we go
into what he thinks is a great starter Porsche today, which, you know, starts with like 996
or Cayman and leads to like getting an old 911 and what it takes to like buy an old 911 that you
can live with because the air cools are so much money now, which that starts a whole
other conversation. But anyway, here's pattering on with Bill Helms.
964 or 993? 993. Just the dependability and I'm superficial. I like the aesthetics of the 993.
It's really, really a good car. The 964 is kind of a weird car because, I mean,
they weren't selling cars. I mean, that was about the time you and mom got divorced and
it was expensive. It was an expensive car. Like I remember going to the dealership and it's like
they were all just sitting there. They weren't moving. Oh, no. Even when I moved to California,
which wasn't that long ago, I remember when I first moved to California, which I moved in
the fall of 2009. I remember seeing a 964 run around this town I live in and just thinking,
oh, that, you know, you don't see a lot of those. That's pretty cool. You know,
but even then it was still this kind of like, and it was shortly after that,
that all of a sudden it's like, oh, 964 is the car to have.
Well, it was, you know, it was such a switch and I have to admit jumping into the first one,
first 964. I mean, it was so smooth and it wasn't improvement. It was a big jump and there was
really a smooth refinement, but it was a lot heavier too. The car felt a lot heavier, but
it was really nice. But you started to have some problems with the car. I mean, we all know about
the oil leaks, but there were, you know, there were clutch issues. There were issues with the
air conditioner. For a mechanic, if you talk to a mechanic on the side, there were just a whole
lot more issues with the 964. And, you know, you fix the oil leaks and then they're going to return
later. That was a big deal and it just, and it never had the look. And so all of a sudden I
walk up and we got a flat wheel, like a 928 style wheel. I never liked the wheel on the C2 or the
C4 or the 964. It never was magical. It never really seemed. Not even the cup one. I know at
first there was about 90 wheels, something 90. Right. The cup wheel was nice. The cup
wheel made the car look a lot better. But the Fuchs is magic for me. The Fuchs are,
that's a beautiful wheel right from the start. I mean, I love the wheel. Like I say, I like the
the wheel on the 74, 75, 76, but I like the Fuchs on the 69 and 71 T2. I just thought,
I just think it's a masterpiece. It's an unbelievably beautiful wheel.
So like, I think with like the 964, I think, okay, well, no one cared for so long. So do they care now
because don't get me wrong, like it's, it was underrated. People just didn't have money at the
time. Like it's a great car. You have that 3.6. A lot of the hot riders are taking, they want the
3.6. So the 3.6 is nice. Um, yeah, it has its problems, but like to have the bigger motor more
torque and you know, they drive nice and it's got that newer suspension. So that's a great
selling point. But I'm also wondering is like, is it sought after now more than it was because
there's such limited numbers? Is it because Singer takes those cars and that's their base
that Singer starts with? But there was also very expensive and a lot of people didn't jump on and
didn't like the look of the car too. I had a hard time selling. I didn't, boy, I didn't sell very
many of them all. The expense, the look, the economy, there were a lot of different things
going on. And then the troubles they started having with the car. But I like the 964. I mean, if I,
I would have a 964 turbo than a 993 turbo, much, much better car for me to drive. In fact,
one of the sweetest cars I've ever driven, I remember a guy knew me and was going to sell
this car and he called me and he said, come over and he threw me the keys. Just take the car,
take it for as long as you want and come back. And it was a 9133 turbo and it was dialed in.
It was a low mile car. It was 30,000 miles or less. I can't remember. And that's one of those times
I didn't want to take that car back. I remember going, God, this car is magical. There was something
sweet. I never been able to drive a 959, but I've read about it. But I hear there's just a little
bit of that 33. They're related to each other. But that really is one of the most memorable cars
I've ever driven. It was a red coupe with gray interior, red piping, and it was a magnificent
car to drive. I really remember going, I'm going to go around the block. I'm going to go down a
couple more miles. I wanted to drive this car. It was just an amazing car. And the 993 turbo,
even though I love the car, the suspension is pretty soft. So it wasn't as fun for me to drive.
But the 964 turbo was an amazing car to drive. If I was going to get one, I would rather have a
964 turbo than a 993 turbo. Because I remember when I was debating, I was going to buy a 993
or the 964 RS and people were thinking I was crazy. Because the 993 was last air-cooled. So
993 was like, ah, and the 964 just kind of got forgotten. But nowadays, the 964, 993,
that's why I ask that one question. They're kind of hand-in-hand.
Right. Yeah. And they got better too, those 93, 94s. And you get the right wheel on it and you get
it set up right. It's really great. If I was going to drive an air-cooled car as a daily driver,
there is no question I'd drive a 993 coupe. That's a magnificent car. That would be the car.
If I was going to drive it like a daily driver, like I did through my youth,
there's no question I'd drive a 993 coupe and a story. That would be my driver. That's an amazing
car. And I love the look of it too. You get it dialed in just right. It's a beautiful car.
I should go talk to Darren about this. Darren Fister. I mean, he lives in the same town I live
and we're pretty good friends. But he's liver die. I mean, if you don't know who Darren is,
FD Motorsports, Fister Exhaust. He's liver die 993 for the longest time. I knew him for years.
And then all of a sudden, he decided through a friend of his, Rudy, who passed on kind of a
big deal guy, has a lot of cars. I think he bought, when he died or noticed before he died,
he decided to buy a 964 from him. So he's big time 993 guys. But now that he loves his 964,
I'd like to pick his brain because I picked his brain about 993s. But now that he's
owned that 964 for probably four or five years now, I would love to ask him if he owns both of them.
Yeah, they're both really good cars. The 993 we all know is more dependable. I think the 993
is better looking. I mean, if I was to have a daily driver, you're going to give me one.
I'd take a 982s black on black. I'm done. That is one of the prettiest. That's probably the most
beautiful car other than I love that 79 turbo and that body like I love that one too. But that 982s
for a daily driver, black on black, I'm in heaven. I'm done. A black car is a daily driver. Oh,
black on black 982 with the turbo. That's such a beautiful car to walk out. That's I walked up
the other day. There was one at Strong's. It was sitting there getting ready to get picked up.
It was all cleaned up and it was a real car. This was a 982s and I think it had 30,000 miles
around and it was right. And one of the salesmen there, Daniel, I said, Daniel, come here. He's
look at that. Let's stand here. Look at this car. He goes, just looks at me and he's, you know,
he's older and been around the Porsches forever. He said, that's art. And he turned around, walked
off and that's it to me. It's just a magnificent, beautiful car and open and shut the doors to
that car. I mean, it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful car, but any 2s, any 2s, I'm in.
It's funny you should mention that. I have a coworker and he asked me all these questions
about Porsches all the time. You know, oh, well, you know, why the air cooled, why the,
why the water cooled, why this, why that. And one day I just thought, okay, I'm going to give you
an example. I'm going to send you a text message. So I went home, set my phone down, put it on,
put it on record, like I recorded a little audio. I opened the door, you know, that
vault like sound. And I sent him that and I'm like, have any new car open the door and shut
the door, have any car, get any car and open and shut the door and see if it sounds like an air
cooled car. Nothing. There, there's nothing like the sound in that 98. Just I stood there because
we were in a, in a building. So the echo open and shut that door. I mean, it's, it's as good as
it gets. I think they interviewed the guy that created that door, interviewed him once and they
said, you know, how come you didn't change that door for 50 years? You had it from here to here.
And the old way was the German guy and he just says that we felt like we made a pretty good door.
I think that pretty much sizes it out. I mean, it's, it's not fair to compare because they're
two different cars and the world had changed. And, you know, those were hand built cars and
then these are more corporate cars and how they're easy to look at the beautiful car.
I love the new Porsches, but when you've done something so long and they're hand built,
it's a hard adjustment. You know, and Porsche went through an adjustment period getting that car
a little bit better. Those hand built cars were just amazing. 996 or 997. 997. Yeah. 997 is a nice
car. The road noise gets me a little bit. I think the 991 is a really, really nice car,
but the 997 is a good car. This question I call like the Nissan Skyline GTR effect.
The Nissan GTR will come out and it'll be the fastest car. It will go fast. It will go around
corners. It will do everything and they'd love it when the cars first come out. And then like
within months, they'll do a comparison and they won't, they won't rate it very high and they say,
well, it's just kind of like it does all, it does everything for you. It's doesn't,
you're not really driving the car. The car just does everything perfect. Porsche will come out
with cars now that are we starting to get a little bit of the GTR effect? I think that's fair. I think
we're just moved into a kind of a corporate world in these cars. They corner and they handle
incredibly and they're unbelievably fast. And for me, they're boring. They kind of feel like each
other. Okay. Perfect starter Porsche today. Boy, boy, I think there's some, there's some good cars
out there. There's a lot of good cars. I think, I think the early Cayman, the great little car
for somebody, even the early Boxster, I like the Cayman better because I like that cool feeling.
And I really liked being in the Cayman and looking at those hips. And you know, I think
if you could find the right 996, it's not my look, but it's a cheaper, it's a cheaper car.
And I think that when you got into 020304, I think they were better cars. And if you put
the right wheels on them, I mean, it's hard to get past those headlights, but it's a, it's a pretty
decent little car. I was in a pretty decent one a year or so ago that little miles have been taken
care of. And I said, I like this car. I appreciated it. I didn't take it back. I took it a few more
blocks and drove it and went, I like this car. So, I mean, to get in at a price point to get
in cheaper, that would be a good car. Anytime you could find a good SC or a Carrera, that'd be
something you could really enjoy. If, you know, again, it's got to be basically there, or you
got to get in it and just drive it and enjoy it. You can't chase the paint anymore. Shops are backed
up. It's really hard to get a car painted unless you're really well connected. It's very expensive.
It's even harder to get the upholstery done. It's just more expensive. So, you've got to have a car
that's basically there that you can tweak, like your 74 we got. If you can get a car like that
and any 911, then I definitely look at it, but you can't chase the rust unless, if you want to just
drive it, but you can't, it's just too expensive to put a car back together if it's gone too far.
And I think that's kind of why the whole hot rod scene or, you know, you see guys just show up
at Luftkold and, you know, I run over at Easy, the R group crowd. I think that's, that scene's
kind of taken off because it's like, there's only so many cars. You can't go, not everybody can find
the perfect car. So they're buying cars and they're just like, okay, well, you know, maybe the paint's
got issues, but I'm just going to drive the hell out of it. As long as the engine's still good,
the things you need are good. Yeah, you can just buy them and drive them. But, you know,
it's hard when a Porsche has been abused and wrecked. And it's really hard to take the turd
out of these old 911s, like any car, but a 911 is more expensive. And I've had people so excited
and pick up a car and run it by and show me. And I'm never going to say something negative
about a car when someone's already purchased it because it made them feel bad. But, you know,
I'm just like, oh my gosh, if I would have bought that car and sold it to one of my people,
then had a heart attack. You just, it's hard to put a rough old Porsche back together. It's too
expensive and it's hard to get it right. Besides just like selling cars and all the other things
you do, when your biggest passion is like kind of putting people's cars together, like they go
buy a car and it's, I mean, to them, it's all there. You've gone to the point where you're not
just buying and selling cars, like people just call you because they want you to get their car
back right. Yeah, I've had, that's been a lot of fun later now because I have more time. And I'd
like taking a really, really good car that's basically the paint's been there, it's faded or
this or that. But the car is essentially there, it just has been neglected and hasn't been driven
that much. And I love to put it back together for not a lot of money. I like to tweak it,
I like to do this, I like to do that. Do all the things to make it, because you can bring these
cars back if they've been cared for. That person who's had his 84 career in the garage and when
they hadn't driven it much in 15 years, the leather's getting, needs to be oiled up a little bit
and maybe some stitching down and, you know, a couple of things in the interior. And then you go
out to the eyes, I don't really want to get into painting the car much. I mean, I've done that,
but that's much more time, nobody really wants to do it, it's really expensive anymore.
But, you know, just to take the edge out of the car, get the wheels and tires right. And, you
know, I mean, there's so many things you can do. There's just things you can do to dial a car
back in, get a little bit of over-spray off, maybe if the car's been painted in a couple of spots.
I've really enjoyed doing that. And it's fun to do it. And I've done that with all kinds of cars.
I've done that with cars that were a little bit marginal where I thought, you know, maybe we
ought to start over and just buy this car. And again, no, no, no, no. I've had this car an awful
long time. I love this car. I want to put this thing back together. Okay. I mean, those aren't
as fun. I've only done, I really can remember only doing one of those. And boy, that's a handful.
It's hard to take the edge out of a car that's been in a bad accident or has had this or
that happen. They're all through just harder and people don't want to do the extensive work on
the older cars anymore. It just takes too much time. There's more money working on new cars.
That's, that's just something. There's really no money in doing that, but I do it anyway. I do it
if someone comes to me with really a nice car and I can look at, I don't care if it's folks who
I can van. And I can look and it's pretty easy to see if you can tweak that car. And I like to do
it as inexpensive as possible with no compromise. So I'm taking it to the right mechanic. It's going
to be right. Or the paint, everything's going to be right. You're just not going to spend a fortune
so you can still go out and enjoy and drive the car. And a lot of things don't have to be done.
There's just so many different things you could do. So yeah, it's me. It's not, there's no,
there's really no money in it. I'm basically being a general contractor remodeling a house.
I'm just doing it with a car. I have all the connections to take it because I've known these
people over the years from door dings to touch up, to upholstery, to mechanics that I can take
them to and I'm going to be treated fairly and we're going to dial a car back in with no compromises
and not spend a lot of money. So that's just something fun to do. It's not like you're going
to make money out of it. I mean, but that kind of makes me think back to that 71S. That guy sold
his 71S and went and bought a total restored car that was taken apart, but was put back together
in perfect condition and he didn't like it as much. So he went and bought the same damn car back.
He did. He went and bought the same car. So that kind of relates in my head to what you're saying
now. It's like, if you're a driver and you want a driver's car, why not just do these little tweaks
that you can continue driving your car? Take it from like a five to an eight rather than taking
something and oh, it's a 10 and I don't want to drive it. It's perfect. And you know, and getting
it to a 10 means that you're nervous every time you pull out, where am I going to park it? Is a
rock chip going to fly out? So you dial everything in and you live kind of live with the paint.
But I like that, you know, some people are fine with an edgy interior. I'm not because that's an
easy thing to fix. I mean, interiors to dial back in, to me, one of the easiest things to do. You
want the right wheels and you want them looking sharp for me. You want the right tires on it.
There's all these things that you can do that are really, really easy
that make the car so much nicer. I really enjoy that I can get in my car and just go out and drive
it anywhere and don't worry about a rock chip. If I get a rock chip, so what? In the front of the
whole car is original paint and there's a lot of rock chips on that car, but it still looks good
going down the road and I don't take it out unless it's real clean. A lot of rock chips for you.
About 98% of people would look at your car and be like, oh, it's perfect, but do you? Yeah, it's
got a lot of rock chips. Oh, no. I mean, back in the day, you wanted your horses really,
really nice. So you would have rock chips, you painted them. And now, of course, it's changed,
which I like the change now. I like the change that people aren't as kooky about their cars.
But I'm kooky about everything but the paint. That's my thing. I mean, I've given up a little
bit of the paint because it's a big deal and you worry about the rock chips or a door doing
a much more. I still park my car like it's perfect, where I park and stuff, but I like
to get out on the road and don't worry about a rock flying up and hitting it. I bought and sold
so many new cars that my brain is wired to get in the car and look at that car in front of me's
tires. I don't get behind a truck. I had to deliver these cars 1,000 miles, 1,500 miles sometimes,
brand new cars and I couldn't get a rock chip. So you can imagine as a young person,
I mean, I've got to steer away from everything. I remember I got a brand new 944 and it was
when they were really hot. This car was brand new and I was taking it from Provo to Salt Lake
and a gravel truck out of the blue pulled right in front of me that was spilling it everywhere.
I literally, even there was snow, I had to take this 944 off the freeway and down towards the fence.
I had to take it off the road and then get towed out because it was going to destroy the car.
These were, I heard it hitting starting, you hit the car and I literally had to take it down
and just park it and then get myself out of there or I'm going to destroy the car. So many cars
got destroyed in a minute back then with the truck or something like that.
So now to be able to get out, pull the car cover off it,
not worry about rocks that way and just enjoy it and drive down the car and let the chips fall
where they may, feels a whole lot better. Thanks for joining us for today's episode.
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, comment, like and share with your friends.
Feel free to send questions or suggestions to the email in the description of the show.
Special thanks to our sponsor, Circuit64. Goodbye for now. We hope we can get together again
for our next episode. Now get out there and enjoy the cars and the people.
About this episode
Bracken Helms chats with his father, Bill Helms, about the nuances between the Porsche 964 and 993 models. They discuss personal experiences, preferences, and the evolution of these iconic cars over the years. Bill shares insights on the 964's underrated status and its mechanical quirks, while expressing a fondness for the aesthetics and reliability of the 993. The conversation also touches on starter Porsches, with recommendations for the 996 and Cayman, and reflections on the differences between air-cooled and water-cooled models. Their engaging banter offers a mix of nostalgia and practical advice for enthusiasts.
