0:00
/
0:00
Political Courage with Brad Lander
Political Courage with Brad Lander
0:00
0:00
0:00
0:00
About this episode
Brad Lander, New York City's comptroller and former council member, shares insights on his political journey marked by courage and coalition-building. He discusses his role in defending livable streets initiatives like the Prospect Park West bike lane, the Reckless Driver Accountability Act, and congestion pricing. Lander reflects on accountability, community solidarity, and fighting authoritarianism while envisioning a more inclusive, safer, and vibrant city. The conversation highlights the challenges and progress in urban transportation and governance, emphasizing the importance of honest leadership and collective action.
Topics:
political courage
livable streets
prospect park west bike lane
reckless driver accountability act
congestion pricing
coalition building
accountability in politics
urban transportation policy
anti-authoritarianism
new york city governance
Brad Lander has been a fixture in New York's progressive political scene for nearly two decades now, and has earned a reputation as a strong advocate for bike lanes, bike share, driver accountability, and congestion pricing. This year, though, he's become known in a new way. As a candidate in a crowded Democratic mayoral primary, Brad cross-endorsed Zohran Mamdani, who eventually won the race with a margin that shocked the Democratic establishment. And in June, mere days before the primary ended, Brad was escorting a man named out of an immigration hearing when he was arrested by federal agents. Brad joins us to explain how his defense of the Prospect Park West bike lane as a then-new member of the New York City Council became a formative experience in his political career and why the courage and coalition building it takes to stand up for safe streets are also the same tools it takes to fight fascism.
Support The War on Cars on Patreon and receive ad-free versions of regular episodes, exclusive bonus content, Discord access, presale tickets for live events, merch discounts, and free stickers!
***Our new book, Life After Cars: Freeing Ourselves from the Tyranny of the Automobile, will be published on October 21, 2025. Pre-order now.***
Purchase tickets for our Life After Cars publication party and live show at The Bell House in Brooklyn on October 28th. And find don't miss our events in San Francisco, Vancouver, Washington, DC, and more.
The War on Cars is produced with the generous support of the Helen & William Mazer Foundation.
This episode was sponsored by Cleverhood and Upway. Listen for the latest discount codes.
Filter:
|
Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Chrysler New Yorker
"...who knows you but was experiencing this just as a New Yorker was when you did that cross endorsement. And this..."
Car
Chrysler Fifth Avenue
"groups one in the neighborhood the Fifth Avenue Committee and the Pratt Center"
Select text to request an explanation
Hey everyone, it's Doug. Finding the right e-bike isn't always easy. Some brands only have a
few models for really specific uses. Your local shop might only carry a small number of bikes.
And if you're looking for a used bike from a random seller online, good luck. Even if
you do find an e-bike you like, you never know what to expect. That's why I'm a
fan of Upway. If you visit Upway.co, you will find a huge selection of certified,
pre-owned e-bikes all at discounted prices. I'll let Maxime Rensen, the head of Upway
US, explain it. We at Upway, we offer the best of both worlds. Pricing and
affordability, it's a great purchasing experience, and also you get
access to a ton of e-bikes. You have a great selection. Right now I think
online we have around 800 bikes that you can choose from. But unlike other
online marketplaces, Upway not only offers a wide array of e-bikes, but also
prides itself on giving you an experience you can trust. Each bike
itself goes through a rigorous inspection process, so you can be sure
you're getting a bike that's as good as new. Our bikes are checked by your
trained and certified mechanics. All of our mechanics, for example, are
certified by Bosch and also other batteries and motors. And again, you
get that selection, but also a trustworthy selection. And speaking of
selection, Upway is also a great option for people who might not have access to
a good local bike shop. Upway is so powerful for people living a bit
further from city centers. Usually these people will be a bit far from the
nearest bike shop, and then in that nearest bike shop the selection will
be quite scarce. While here you're talking about right now 700 to 1000
e-bikes that can be shipped to you in literally your five days, and yeah,
you have all the price points. Because Upway has so many bikes in its
massive upcenters, you can guarantee that you'll be able to find the right
e-bike to fit your needs at a price that fits your budget. Everything
happens online, but these cost savings, we can put that back into more
space. More space means more selection and more diverse selection. So it's
visit upway.co and check out the amazing selection of certified pre-owned
e-bikes ready to be packed up and delivered right to your door. If you're
in New York or Los Angeles, you can go to an Upway Upcenter and check
things out in person. I've been to the one in Brooklyn and it's true the
amount of e-bikes cannot be beat. If you purchase an e-bike from Upway, you
can save $150 off any e-bike order over $1,000 with code WarOnCars now
through the end of September. Find the right e-bike for you at an unbeatable
price at Upway.co.
This is the WarOnCars. I'm Doug Gordon and I am here in the studio, as always,
with my co-host Sarah Goodyear. Happy September. Happy September. It's the
re-entry. I love it. You can tell it's September in our neighborhood because the
traffic is back. That's right. The school drivers are back. It's sad, but
there are also a lot of nice kids and parents walking on the street. It is
adorable. Biking and it's lovely. I love that. So real quick, we are on Patreon at
patreon.com slash the WarOnCars pod. You can also pre-order our book, which is
coming in October. It's called Life After Cars, freeing ourselves from the
tyranny of the automobile. It's available wherever books are sold. We're
also going on tour. That's right. You can go to lifeaftercars.com and
find out if we're coming to a city near you and we are adding new cities all the
time. In big news, we just announced our guest for our show in Brooklyn at the
Bell House. Yes. Former New York City DOT commissioner, Jeanette Sadekhan. Yes,
like a superstar special guest. I'm so excited. Rockstar of the Livable
Streets movement. Speaking of which, I think we have one here. We do indeed.
Brad Lander is the 45th comptroller of the city of New York. He has held that
position since 2022. Before that, he was my New York City Council member, and
that was a position he held, not just mine, but a lot of people. Yes. For 12
years in the city council, he co-founded the Progressive Caucus. He
represented, like I said, me and my neighborhood, including the neighborhood
we're sitting in here in Brooklyn. A lot of you may know him as a
candidate for mayor during the Democratic primary that just wrapped up in
June. And Brad really distinguished himself in a very crowded field with
his detailed platform, all of his policies, as well as his cross
endorsement of Zoran Mamdani, who eventually won the race. Also, in
June, mere days, I think it was a week out from the primary day, Brad was
escorting a man out of an asylum hearing down in Lower Manhattan when
he was arrested by federal agents. And that became big news, of course. Brad
is the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in the city of New York. And
it was a really shocking moment on, I guess, our country's road to
autocracy. Yeah, I have to say, though, I heard that Brad got
arrested. I saw the call to action to go to Foley Square to show
support. And I was in Foley Square with hundreds of other people when
Brad was released and spoke to the crowd. And I have to say, it was an
incredibly moving event and day in general, because there were just so
many people there who had just run there out of a sense of urgency, the
way that when bad things happen in New York, I feel like New Yorkers are
very, very good at springing into action to try to repair and support
and make things right. And so then when you came out, it was just really
inspiring. And it's a personal thing for me, too, because my grandfather, who
is Italian, was arrested under the Alien Enemies Act in 1942 and was
processed right there, that same court complex. And then he was taken
to a cell on Ellis Island and interned for six months without access to
counsel. So anyway, I think we should officially welcome Brad Lander to
the war on cars.
All right, well, I am thrilled to be here. Thank you for the invitation. I
have wanted to join the war on cars for quite some time now.
You've been a member for a long time.
Honored to be doing it. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you for being
there that day at Foley Square. I will say that free Brad Lander signs
were not something I ever imagined I would see or really want to see again.
But it felt powerful to have all those people out there saying for all the
things that are going on in the world for all the ways this country is
creeping toward fascism. New Yorkers know better. We show up and for each
other, you know, I had tried to do that that day at Gardo, who I was
accompanying and lots of other folks that I've been with since have been back
pretty much weekly since then. Our neighbors, our New Yorkers, we show
up for them. Thank you for showing up for me and want to hear that story
about your grandfather is pretty powerful. But that's what New York City
is all about. Like at this moment with creeping authoritarianism, fighting
back by getting out in the streets and insisting on inclusive, multi
racial democracy by showing up for our neighbors is what we're called to do.
And I do think courage is is required. And it's nice to have you on not too
many elected officials actually have the courage even to come on the war
on cars because they think perhaps that the New York Post will seize on
that as evidence of their radical tendencies. They will. So they're
not wrong about about that. Right. That's what we're hoping will
happen. But you're here for it. So we really appreciate.
Well, I wonder, Brad, like, have you reached a new stage of your political
career where I don't want to say you have like no Fs left to give, but
like, because you care very deeply about the stuff that you're doing.
And and even though you, you know, I was recently saying to someone
that like, I don't think a person has lost an election and come out
as much of a winner as you did. Because if you didn't already
have the respect of so many New Yorkers, which you do, so many
people saw something that I'd know about you, which is your
political courage, your ability to stand up for people in different
coalitions, your ability to reach across different demographics
and say we're all one New York and we do better together. But have
you sort of reached a new stage? We're like, I'll go on the war
on cars. I'll do anything now.
Absolutely. I mean, I would have, I think I would have been
willing to come on the war on cars earlier. But I also
think it's fair to say, you know, I'm in my, I don't give
a f**k phase.
Alright, you swore you made it, that's fine.
Yeah. Well, the fact that Stephen Colbert not just had Zoran and
me on earlier that week, but then let me say good f**king
riddance to Andrew Cuomo the next night was maybe the, you
know, one of my favorite media appearances, but but taking
your question seriously. Look, when you do something like run
for mayor, you worry a lot. You are thinking, can I
control my message? I've got a set of things I want to
say, what will the implications of this be? And yes, your head
goes to, okay, yes, I of course want more livable streets and
fewer traffic crashes and people to be able to have outdoor
dining at open streets. But I don't want the car owners to
think I'm coming actually, you know, to declare war on them.
And you spend a lot of time with your comms team in your
head trying to calibrate in all those directions. And it
helps a lot after going through all of that to see that what
actually people respond to best is when you are able to be just
your most honest, clear self. And people could figure out who
you are. And the fact for me that I spent millions of
dollars trying to get people's attention to a long track
record of working to make the city better, a whole bunch of
detailed policies, without a whole lot of success at drawing
attention to me or to those things. But then down the stretch
when an arrest just doing the simple thing of showing up to
a company immigrant New Yorkers who deserve due process and the
rule of law, going after Andrew Cuomo on the debate stage for
all the reasons I thought he would be a disaster in ways
that showed yeah, being unafraid, but also just being
willing to throw and take some punches. And then to do the
cross endorsement and say, yeah, implicitly, I see it's not
that likely to be me, but I care more about the city and its
future. That did put me in a space of saying what's best to be
able to do is just go out there and be who you are. And
that really is both more fun. And people respond to it a
lot better.
The fun part for me, even as someone who knows you but
was experiencing this just as a New Yorker was when you did
that cross endorsement. And this happened before. But the love
that you both have for the city, I don't think we've seen a
campaign based on this is a great city, and it can be
better. You know, Eric Adams ran on New York City is a hell
whole of crime and only I can fix it. That's Andrew Cuomo's
pitch is like the city is terrible. I don't even live
here. And I'm telling you that it's terrible. But you
guys just have this like buddy cop energy that I really
loved, especially in the the cross endorsement video where
you were just ordering from a, you know, what's more New
York than ordering from a street, a food cart. I loved it.
Thank you. Yeah, we felt it, which was nice. Now, I've
said this before, but I really did decide to do the
cross endorsement in a more like rank choice math sort of
way. Don't want Andrew Cuomo to be mayor. Our voters
have to we got to add our voters up to make sure
that doesn't happen. And I give credit to the, you
know, the staff are actually a lifelong resident of
Park Slope, somebody born not too far from where we are
young staffer, Arden Dressner Levy, who put the script
together. And when I read that script, I was like, this
is perfect. Like it really does convey that love of
New York. And it's sad that our politics is at a
point where people are so used to ego driven, selfish,
sour, you know, I thought it was pretty
significant that on election day, both Andrew
Cuomo and Eric Adams went out of their way to let
everyone know they were the only ones that they were
voting for, right? They weren't going to have two,
three, four or five. And for us to say, no, there's a
vision of this city we love and share that so many
New Yorkers do. And yeah, of course, you're
frustrated with how unaffordable things are or
with ways that city government isn't delivering
in how it needs to absolutely. But what drives
here is a love of this place.
Well, I was going to say, you know, I think
that it can be so hard to build coalitions and to
find solidarity. And I guess I wanted to ask you
about that because I think we're at a point where
it's just incredibly important to figure that out.
And who can you be in coalition with? And it's
not going to be people that you agree with on
every single point. And so how do you approach
finding people that you can be in coalition with,
build solidarity with? What is that made of?
What has to underlie those alliances?
Yeah, I'm trying to decide whether to go from the
love or go from the things we oppose. I guess I'll
start from the love just because it's a nicer
place to start, even though being honest, like
this is a moment. You know, when people say
popular front, right, like that's maybe like
this classic political starting from the negative
I said I wasn't going to. But I actually think it's
useful. You know, people, I don't know that
everyone knows what popular front refers to,
but it refers to anti-fascist coalitions
that did include a pretty big range of people
on the left, you know, in that case, this was
Europe before the war, so broad groups of
socialists, of liberals, social Democrats,
but also liberals and, you know, people more
moderate in our context, who recognize that if
they were going to block creeping authoritarianism
and fascism in their countries, they would need
these broader coalitions, you know, in a classic
form in France, it brought a like a Jewish
socialist Leon Bloom to power. And they're
not easy coalitions to build, but I do think
they need two things. One, that level at
this moment of clarity, like we really do have
all around the world, not just in Donald Trump,
threats to the things we care the most about,
to like the rule of law, to democracy, to these
core values. But obviously you also have to
be inspired by something in New York City.
That's not hard, you know, you mentioned it's
the first day of, you know, first day of
first week of school. And when you're out
on the sidewalks watching diverse sets of
parents hold their, you know, kids walking
in their hands and that's such an incredible
diverse set of people wherever you are, even for
as segregated as the city is, you know, the
kids walking into neighborhood public schools
are often pretty diverse. And here are these
public institutions that got started, you
know, most of the school buildings in this
neighborhood over a hundred years old. And
yet they're just the platforms for people's
hopes and dreams for their kids. So I
guess what I'd say is that model of a belief
in the idea that we all do better when we all
do better, that there's something foundational
about the, not just kind of like democracy
is separation of powers and some principles
in a constitution, but the foundation for
our shared life in common in which we get
to dream for our kids of a life better
than the one we had in this city with
people from all around the world who see the
possibility of the things we build in common,
our schools, our parks, our libraries, our
streets as a shared treasure that's for our
thriving and for our kids future success.
Like that is a vision of coalition and then
people really do view that differently.
You know, we're going to have our
factional fights within the Democratic
Party, within New York City, within the
livable streets movement about what's
most important now about where you can and
can't compromise, but okay let's get to it.
It felt like such a turn from the last
election because last time out,
Catherine Garcia's voters and Maya Wiley's
voters, they didn't cross endorse and so
their voters, many of them left the
other person off and if they had
crossed endorsed one of them probably
would have won, we would not have been
in this nightmare that we're in with
Eric Adams, this time around the kind
of purity test that I think sometimes
the left that's very self-defeating on
the left just didn't happen.
I feel like people on the left, this
broad definition of that, understood
the stakes better than I can recall in
any other election. I think part of
that is because you and Zaron
communicated those stakes as well as
you did, but something just shifted.
I think maybe it was having Trump in
the White House or something like
that, but it was very different this
time around.
Agreed. I mean I said that a lot
throughout the campaign. People would
ask me about okay so what are you
going to do differently from last time?
We've got ranked choice voting but we
added four years ago and that cross
endorsement didn't happen and part of
what I would say is look I'm controller
because people who voted either for
Catherine Garcia or for Maya Wiley
voted for for Mayor, voted for me for
controller four years ago. That is a
coalition that makes sense to me.
It is in some ways what I was trying
to rebuild in my campaign, but it
also requires openness to a team
sport politics and of course I went
into it hoping that you know I would
be the one that was emerging in first
with that broader coalition, but
that's what it means to approach it
as a team sport. Everybody thinks
like that, but you better be willing
and of course normal people do this
all the time. People play team sports.
You go out for the baseball team and
you'd like to be the shortstop and
the coach chooses someone else to be
the shortstop and you get to play
second base or right field but you're
excited to show up again and try to
contribute to the teams winning. That is
a very normal human thing to do
unfortunately it's not a very normal
political thing to do. That's why I
sort of said you're like a like a
buddy cop sort of movie because
an old improv teacher would say you
know the goal is not to be funny the
goal is to make your teammate look
like a genius
and if you all go out to make your
teammate look like a genius
you look like a genius and so does
everyone else and I felt like you guys
had that dynamic you and Zaron really
that was clear on the Colbert
appearance it was clear in the videos
your goal was I'm going to make this
other person look good and it worked.
I got to tell you one funny story
though that may be transition for
talking about our livable streets
infrastructure because one of the fun
things we did during that week was
to ride down the Prospect Park West
bike lane. Actually we were coming from
my house in the South Slope
where we had done the pre-interview
with Colbert's team because we were
going on a couple of days later and we
had decided after the cross investment
we would visit each other's
neighborhood so I had gone the day
before
to Steinway Street and we had gone to
some of the Yemeni cafes
there and then he came over here we
did the Colbert thing and then we
jumped on on city bikes and
rode up to the park and then rode
down the Prospect Park West bike lane
toward Grand Army Plaza.
You know I feel a lot of pride in that
in that bike lane so he was like
it's your neighborhood and so I was
riding in front but
as we came into
Grand Army Plaza the press and people
were there so I was like Zaron come on
up and so we're riding
side by side we reach Grand Army
Plaza
he gets off in a very elegant
rolling dismount
and then
you know there's some of the
comments are about you know how
you know sweet and buddy cop movie
is and how rank choice voting is the
cure for male loneliness but honestly
most of the comments were about his
rolling dismount and I'm like dude
you even got to look better than me
getting off a bicycle.
That was the moment he became
mayor.
That's right and considering the
history of that bike lane
which we're going to get into
I think it would have been
poetic if you had owned that moment
but these are the these are the
sacrifices we have to make
but this kind of goes to Doug's point
it's like you know
sure you think ah you know I could
do a rolling dismount and then you
think the project here is bigger
the bike lane looks good
Grand Army Plaza looks good
Prospect Park looks good
we are trying to build a future
for a politics that can do
more of that and what's
not important is how I get off a
bicycle.
All right so let's talk about
Prospect Park West
Sarah I'm going to put you on the
spot here for a moment because we were
joking we just recorded the audio
book and we each had
a word or a phrase we could not
pronounce out loud and yours was
Prospect Park West.
It was no it's Prospect Park West
bike lane.
Oh okay so I'll take this
I'll leave this part of it.
See I can say it now.
You did it yeah.
But the language here is so
significant because was it a bike
lane or a bike path and was it a
trial period or a pilot project
turned out to be the subject of
all the litigation.
All right so we'll back it up a
little bit so June 2010
DOT installs this bike lane.
Goes from a three lane street
down to a two lane street with a
two-way bike lane much safer
but of course let's say a
loud minority started making
trouble about it and this wasn't
your ordinary group of
Nimbies this was some of the most
powerful people in your district.
Do you are then in your first
term as city council?
Just a few months I literally
started in January of 2010.
Yeah so and you're going up
against a dean of Brooklyn
College a former deputy mayor
under Giuliani and the former
DOT commissioner who happens
to be married to Senator
Chuck Schumer.
This is a lot to take on.
How did you navigate this?
I know the answers to some of
these questions because this
is how I kind of cut my teeth
in the livable streets
movement it's how I got
introduced to you and it really
was a knock down drag out
fight that a different city
council person a different
elected official could have
found a compromise and we
sort of know what those
compromises look like which is
the status quo.
How did you feel when that
opposition started mounting?
It really was my first big
political battle you know I
had run for city council in
2009 I hadn't been in politics
before I had run to
non-profit affordable housing
groups one in the
neighborhood the Fifth Avenue
Committee and the Pratt Center
so I was already a part of
the livable streets community
at the Pratt Center we had
supported the effort to
bring congestion pricing into
the city and done a lot of
work on bus rapid transit
and so it wasn't a total
neophyte but I had been a
policy wonk and a planner
in the work not an elected
official or a political leader
in it I had been on
community board six when
we voted to ask DOT to
bring the bike lane and had
voted in favor of that resolution
so I knew which side I was on
but I was in no way prepared
for the level of backlash
I wasn't surprised that there
were opponents but this
wound up just exploding
in a way that was surprising
to me and I was like whoa
we put up a web form
like a survey and I remember
it was like a 13 question
survey with three open-ended
questions about how people
felt about it
3,000 people filled out the
survey and I mean 2,000
in favor but a thousand
opposed so on the one hand
it was clear how people felt
which was really useful
and also it was clear
there was a very strong
of course if people lived
maybe not of course
but if people lived on
or closer to Prospect
Park West they were more
likely to be opposed
and clearly in a certain way
to feel more strongly
like oppositional energy
like that's not that there wasn't
a huge amount of support
but there was an anger
that it was clear
it was gonna people
were gonna remember
and so yeah I had some thoughts
of maybe there's a way
to navigate to compromise here
that's kind of where you go
if you're an elected official
but I had a few things
first I had an amazing
policy director named
Michael Friedman Schnapp
who already at that point
as a pretty young person
was a real leader on
on livable streets
and really my most important
educator on these issues
and we went back and forth
about it a little
and what was clear to me here
was you know
there wasn't actually
going to be
even if we wanted there
like making everyone happy
that wasn't the thing here
and so it would be better
to just lean in
and be clear with people
about why I believed
it was gonna be better
when we got there
and of course let's listen
we found a few things
to do like make sure
the design of it
echoed Prospect Park
a little thing
like having aggregate concrete
on the islands
matching the aggregate concrete
of the Prospect Park West sidewalks
like fair enough
let's make it as nice as we can
but let's also just have the courage
to say
this is gonna make the streets safer
fewer people are gonna get killed
in traffic crashes
it's gonna be a lovely place to
ride
it's gonna enhance
the public realm of our neighborhood
and the things people are afraid of
are in this case mostly change
change is not always easy
but if we do it boldly
and do it together
it'll work out better
and the nice thing for me
is that really turned out to be true
I did get a lot of pushback
I took a lot of heat
I was the subject of a
you know a deposition
in the lawsuit
and at the end of the day
not even at the end of the day
by the middle of the day
it was clear
it was beautiful
it was working
it was safer to ride
people liked it
the momentum was with us
and I think that helped me say
all right as as often as I can
that's the right way to approach a fight
I don't think people
who are outside of New York
understand how important that fight was
because
had that gone down
had you folded
had DOT folded
I think the
New York City that we know today
wouldn't exist in the same way
it might have happened
in fits and starts
but that really was a sort of crucible
of the moment
I agreed you mentioned
Jeanette Sadik Khan
coming to the Brooklyn
Book Tour line here
and I urge people to go
and to read her book
Street Fight
as well as Life After Cars
she had taken the helm
and was doing a whole set
of really important things
that Times Square redesigned
moving towards City Bike
but this was the first place
that she encountered
as part of that livable streets work
where there was huge
and well organized political pushback
and it is easy to imagine
a world where
the mayor
or what had had
sided with the opponents
against her
that Lane had been stripped out
as we're still all these years later
seeing
that bike lanes can be stripped out
when a mayor sides
with a different political constituency
whatever
maybe she would have quit
who knows exactly
how it would have gone
but the work that got done
with the momentum
that came at that moment
is really critical
still right now
to people's confidence
in the city we can have
if we keep pushing forward
Yeah I mean you mentioned City Bike
which was one of the things
that was coming into being
at that time
you know City Bike
now we
it's just so much a part
of the landscape of New York
people use it
as a really helpful
part of our public transportation system
tourists love it
it just makes pieces fit together
in a whole new way
but that was another thing
that in 2016
when the system was expanding
into your district
that there were
also complaints about
stations eliminating parking
and you managed to thread
the needle on
on this one too
I mean streets blog called
your statement
a pitch perfect statement
on bike share
and talking about the impact on parking
and you know it wasn't going to be
a catastrophe
that we couldn't recover from
now of course
there are city bike stations
everywhere
and they are very very well used
and people just accept it
but I guess my question for you is
at that first fight
you were at the beginning of your term
did that experience
help you to realize like
oh I can actually
do the things that
I stand for
and you know stand for what I stand for
it really did
and that you know the
what streets blog was referring to
there was an email
we put out more broadly
I think the inclination
of an elected official otherwise
so when something like that happens
city bikes coming to your neighborhood
you know some people are
going to want it and like it
but then in each place
where the station is coming
and is going to take a couple of
parking places
people on that block
are going to reach out to your office
and say do you know how hard it is
for me to find parking
I'm never going to be able to find
parking again
I'm going to blame you every time
I'll be circling around cursing you
and the impulse
you know you got some ports
not that elected official
who's usually on the phone for that
you got some young staffer
and you know it's quite often well
we'll take a look at that one
maybe we can get them
to move it to the sidewalk
or move it to the next block over
or kind of work out a compromise here
and that's not a necessarily
a terrible impulse
some people will navigate this
by saying okay we are
going to have city bike come
but let's see how much
we can do to mitigate the anger
and the approach I took there
was a little different
it was to say
let's explain to people
why this is a good thing
try to ask them to see the bigger picture
a tiny percentage of the parking spaces
in the neighborhood
were being you know transitioned
into city bike
and every one of those city bike stations
was going to serve dramatically
more people for their transportation needs
than the two or three cars
that were parked there
that's a very different answer
to give people on a block than
okay we know you hate this
and you think it's terrible
we'll see if we could get it
you know moved around the corner
to say look
we respect you
we take your point of view seriously
here's why I believe
this makes more sense for all of us
and I'm going to ask you
I'm going to take your point of view
seriously but also ask you
to see the bigger picture
and your neighbors needs
and all our needs seriously
and and I do think that came from the
you know in part from the feeling
that you know the prospect park west lane
over time
everyone came to see that it was better
for the whole community
how do you cultivate that
in elected officials
because I think there's like a
memento-esque attitude
with some elected officials
is that they never really learn
oh we had that fight before
and it was fine
and every time we approach these
you know it's
New York is not Amsterdam
Manhattan is not Brooklyn
51st street is not 52nd street
like we some somehow forget
that these things work out
it's unfortunate that you're unique
in that sense
like there are other people
I think zoran is a really good example
of someone who's been through a couple
of street fights
and understood
this is better in the long run
but how do you
balance that
technocratic impulse of like
I'm going to explain how this works
with the empathy of
I know parking is very difficult
when you come back on a sunday night
or a grocery shopping trip or whatever
with
the long-term view
things are dramatically better than
they were in 2010 or 11
2016
so I do feel like
something is
working here
and you know some folks
I guess go back to that
but maybe not everybody does
it was so different than
there were just a tiny handful of people
Jeanette would come to the city council
and almost all the council members
repress
it was like they rep
could we're still cling
into the steering wheel
and it really played out as though
like the city council represented
drivers and car owners
and
Jeanette represented
you know other
other people
and that has changed dramatically
and mostly it's changed dramatically
because people see the benefits
because they
love outdoor dining
and because they've got open streets
in their neighborhood
or because they themselves are city
bike riders
like a whole lot more
of our elected officials are today
than possibly were then
so I guess I'd say
a couple of things
one
I do think there's a way in which
courage is contagious
it is easy
I mean unfortunately we are
you know
evolved biologically
to be motivated by fear
like that is just a thing we have
and you have to recognize it
and kind of managing yourself
and whatever you know
whether that's mindfulness
or that you do to try to not be
reactive to your fears
there's that in politics too
but nothing helps like
seeing somebody else
go out there
and say something you think
but that you were afraid to say
I think it's like why it's great
the podcast is called the war on cars
you know
it's
it helps
it you know
the first couple of times
I heard it even being an ally
I'm like
oh are we gonna alienate people
and no one
people might not like the agenda
but no one thinks it's meant
literally
you know
it's a good example of like
okay
there's something
courage is contagious
and it's useful
to have people out there
it's useful to have been
through a few of these battles
yourself and get to the other side
and see
it's gonna be all right
better than all right
we're gonna have some solidarity
from having worked together with people
and then we're gonna feel really proud
of that thing we won
and then
when you're in that plaza
or riding that bike lane
or on that open street
you get both
this is awesome
like all these New Yorkers out here
and
it was our courage that made it happen
and and you're seeing a lot of that
amongst young elected officials these days
well I was going to say
your successor
Shahana Hanif has been
an incredible partner
on so many awesome bike lane
I wouldn't even call them fights anymore
just a sort of
it's almost like the bike lanes
now are the default
and now we're just arguing
over the particulars of the design
and where
you know depending on the elected official
but still credit to her
like extending
we did the first little bit
of Kensington Plaza
and
but still closing
the piece of each second street
that they had to close
to expand
it took a lot of courage
got a lot of blowback
so I
you know and
and
now she gets to have that same feeling
in the neighborhood
where she grew up
of
doing something that took courage
that now both people love
it's clearly right in hindsight
and that feels good
because you risk something for it
we'll be right back
and hear more from Brad
after this break
the seasons are changing
and the weather is getting
unpredictable
you can always be ready
with a clever hood rover
2.0
rain cape
which will keep you dry
on foot
or on bike
through all the changes
check out their wild new
limited edition
store meat print
it's a colorful pattern
based on
Noah Doppler radar data
the vivid
eye-catching pattern
keeps you more visible
in a car-centric world
even on the grayest
and rainiest day
for 15% off everything
in the clever hood store
head to cleverhood.com
slash war on cars
and enter code
livable city
that's cleverhood.com
slash war on cars
code
livable city
so Brad you
you have a reputation of being
a technocrat
with
I don't know a good
empathetic side as well
like not just
buy the numbers
but like I think the city bike
example is a really
good example of how you use
like here are the numbers
here's the percentage on parking
and yes I understand
that it kind of stinks
if you're looking for a parking
space on your block
but let's talk about something
that was much more
on the technocratic side
that's the reckless driver
accountability act
for years
people were saying
we have these tools
to identify the worst of the worst
when it comes to speeding
drivers
reckless drivers
why isn't the city doing anything
to at the very least
reach out to these people and say
hey
we know you're driving
in a way that could endanger other
people
I wonder if you could explain the
process that led to that
you know
it didn't get implemented the way
that you originally envisioned it
but we could talk about
how that came to be
like so many of these
unfortunately it did start
the real political energy
started from tragedy
not from
from
technocracy
you know
when we were talking about
prospect park west
but the
move to
you know reduce the speed limit
comes from the
death of semicolon
x-teen
the extraordinary
courage and generosity
of families for safe streets
to turn their pain into
something that saves the lives of
other people's children
I mean it's just
it continues to be
extraordinary to me
that that set of folks can
go through the worst possible
thing imaginable
and that is part of what happened
here
my office
when I was in the city council
was on 5th avenue
between 9th and 10th street
we were in the office
the day this
hideously reckless driver
who should not have been on the streets
went through a red light
and killed one and four-year-old
Abigail Blumenstein
and Josh Lu
and we're all wrecked by it
and there was a
engineering
a change
9th street solution
that we did work hard to fight for
that led to the protected bike lanes
on 9th street
but it was also clear
that that was a driver
who should not have been out
on the road
and something had to change
so the energy that propelled it
was that
families for safe streets
you must learn from those tragedies
but then
we did get deep down into the weeds
because okay
how do you know
who the reckless drivers are
and what is the data
and how much is it running
through speed cameras
and how much is it running through red lights
and could you use insurance data
my friend Aaron Napristeck said
let's talk to the insurance companies
and what else could we use
so we did a whole set of data analysis
to try to say okay
what do we know about
who are most reckless
what is predictive
can we show that there's a correlation
between these things
and dangerous crashes
then we had some like
okay we think we can identify them
the speed cameras
and the red light cameras
actually now that we didn't have before
and that people had had fight
fight a big political battle
to to get in place
tell us who the most reckless drivers are
but then the lawyers were like
well cameras get the cars
and not the drivers
and so you don't have a framework
and the state controls licensing
but we had Steve Vakaro
and Adam White to say
actually you could use
nuisance law
and say the vehicles themselves are
like it's true
that people are driving them
but those people are
the owners of those vehicles
are letting them be used
like weapons aimed at their neighbors
and whether they're driving them
or their kids are driving them
or someone they lent a car
are driving them
you can regulate
the harm cause
or the nuisance the car
and so that took a lot of work
but the combination of that legal
in the weedness
with that data
produced this reckless driver accountability act
that then yes unfortunately the pandemic hit
it did not get stood up at first
by the de Blasio administration
as robustly as we wanted
the Adams administration
never really cared about it
and so it was never implemented
with fidelity
but it still can show it
and I hope will be
because we do know
that if you take an escalating approach
the first times you start to show
recklessness
you get an educational opportunity
but with escalation
and if you can't stop
using your car
like a weapon aimed at your neighbor
then you can't operate it
and whether that's because
it'll be booted and towed
or whether that's because
your license will be suspended
or some combination of those things
we can save more lives
with that approach
the cool thing about it
I think also was that
there was a restorative justice component
too often in the livable streets movement
people get accused of like
you just want to punish people
we know that fines disproportionately affect
low-income people
rich people can afford that $50 ticket
it's almost like permission to speed
but your vision
of the reckless driver accountability act
involved like taking a safe driving course
which the imposition there is time
which really felt like
okay that's again to Sarah's point
like threading the needle
like okay we're gonna do this
we're gonna do this in a way
that isn't gonna cause undue harm
for people who can least afford it
but we're gonna do something
about that weapon the car
and this is a place where people get it
because they've been there
you know if you're a pedestrian
or a cyclist and you're out on the street
you want something more to restrain
you know drivers
if you're a driver yourself
who's pretty safe
you see that sociopathically
reckless driver out there
and you have the thought in your head
that guy's gonna kill someone
but you don't feel like you can do anything about it
and look at you know this is a place for me to be honest
if you're a driver who has sped
who has you know gotten speed zone violations
you know how you can drift into reckless action
with no intention to harm anyone
but do something that statistically over time
if it keeps happening is gonna cause harm
and so yes the system we need
is one that can change people's behavior
set some limits and boundaries
give you a chance
to get right in your action
and I mean
not everyone should have to have like I had
like accountability in the form of being on the
cover the New York Post
we should stop for a moment
Brad you had
we should explain to our listeners
like the New York Post
reported that you had accumulated
some number of speeding tickets
on your personal car
and that yeah that was a big tough moment
for us in the liberal streets movement
and obviously for you personally
this was really hard
like I feel like one of the times I had most
disappointed allies
and people who I trusted
and disappointed myself to
you know this was the time when I was fighting
for and navigating for
and and winning that reckless driver
accountability act
and also driving all over the city
as I was running for
controller
and I sped through school speed zones
not as many times as would get you
held accountable by the reckless driver
accountability act
but a lot more than I should have
and the form of accountability
that I wound up facing was yes
then the New York Post
put that on the cover
just at a time
when I was working with again
these sold same families
who have lost loved ones in traffic
crashes who I'd gotten
arrested in civil disobedience
with outside state senator
Marty Golden's office
because he was holding up the
speed zone and red light camera program
in the state legislature in Albany
and I had really deeply let down
not just an important set of allies
like an important set of allies
who I had stood with
who had lost loved ones to traffic
violence
and yes like that was very painful
but it in a certain way
it actually functioned to show
that accountability can be a way
of changing your behavior
this is different from
you have to take a
you know a safe driving class
or risk losing your vehicle
but still it's like a form of accountability
that comes from data
and an inconsistency between the values
I had and the actions I was doing
and you know that was now five years ago
and I have gotten one speed camera violation
over the last five years
so you know full disclosure
I'm not I'm not perfect on it
but that's a lot better than I
than I had been before
and hard
but actually makes me hopeful
that if we take accountability
seriously and give people an
opportunity to get right
in which their actions match their values
that does take like boundary and limit setting
it takes using data and transparency
it takes some clarity together
on what will keep people safe
and you know I wish I hadn't done it
I don't want to tell it as like a
just so story
but it also helps me believe
like change is possible
accountability matters
the answer was not to stop there
and say okay yeah fair enough
I was a hypocrite
and so I'm going to go hide under a table
the answer was to say no the values
I was expressing were the right ones
I got to change what I'm doing here
let's keep moving forward
and that's part of what truly being
in community does right
is it creates an environment in which
you are held accountable by a community
that then also understands
we all make mistakes
and we all need to
watch out for each other
and call each other out
and then repair together
the damage that's been done
when I had to make the cross endorsement
decision
which wasn't an easy one
I mean in many ways
it was effectively saying okay I see
that I'm not winning this race
I talked to a lot of people
and what I discovered was this
extraordinary community of people
I had been
had the good fortune the blessing
to build up over time
who on the one hand
had my back
like cared about me
thought protectively about me
and on the other hand
counted on me
to find my way to do the right thing
like with a form of accountability
like sort of parts love
and part accountability
and yes like that's what solidarity
actually is
and it's not easy
it's not saccharine
it's not sadly as nice
as just can't we all have
you know candy canes
and and and rainbows
it's like
there are gonna be hard things
in in your life
whoever you are
you know every advocacy you're doing
whatever role you have to play
and if you're fortunate
you will have built relationships
up with people
who yeah who care about you a lot
who share values
who know you're gonna make mistakes
and so are they
so that can't be the thing at which you
throw somebody overboard
or cancel them
and instead who say
let's keep oriented to
what the right thing to do is here
and who believe in each other
enough to keep pushing for that
and yeah like I found that to be
just an amazing blessing
at that moment
when I most needed it
to help me get on the right path
I'm gonna get a little Jewish for a moment
because Brad you know my wife
Leora from youth group
activities in the Midwest
and summer camp stuff from the Midwest
and I think she would
I'm channeling her
you know the Jewish concept of chuva
of repair
I do remember when the tickets happened
you called people
and apologized to them directly
including me
for letting us down
and that was such a gracious moment
I feel like a lot of elected officials
would issue a quick statement
and that would be the end of it
and like don't you see what I've done
for you people and move on
and you did the necessary work of repair
and I thought that was
you know that's why we have your back
because you do that kind of stuff
and that was a good lesson for me
as an advocate if you remember
I wrote like a big long thing of like
hey we got to hold our allies
to a higher standard
then we hold our enemies
and when one of them lets us down
we won't be taken seriously
if we don't take this seriously
and I really appreciated that call
and the work that I know you did
calling probably
Lord knows how many other advocates
and those members of families
for safe streets I'm sure
and I do think it's just one of those
hidden signs of sort of your
I don't know your empathy
but your toughness
because it takes some toughness
to have that happen to yourself
and to sort of take the punches
that you're gonna get
I mean look that was one of the hardest things
I have ever gone through
the calls especially
to those families for safe streets
members
yeah were some of the hardest
I've done
and it felt awful
and it over time
works out a lot better
at least in my experience
to try to act like that hard
in the moment
but then when you get to the next
thing like that
and there's going to be a next thing
like that
partly you just have the confidence
that you can go through it that way
got the muscle memory of being
willing to try to take accountability
of being genuine in it
and at least for me
it has paid off enormously
it's not just like a kind of
trying to do the right thing
it's like a much richer life
for having made some mistakes
try to own them
built relationships that moved through them
you won't all you can't
you don't save every one
like some people might just say
this is too much for me
but enough people will be there
and you wind up
I don't know my life has been much
much richer for finding ways to do that
so that's one kind of toughness
that you have learned
in your career
and as you say
you have that muscle memory now
there's another kind of toughness
that you've been called on
to demonstrate
as controller
as the Trump administration
has mounted a series of attacks
on New York
as part of its anti-urban agenda
and that anti-urban sentiment
has a long history
as I'm sure you're aware
in the United States of America
you can trace it back
to Thomas Jefferson
and his memorable words
I view great cities
as pestilential to the morals
the health and the liberties of man
okay so it
this this anti-urban strain
in American public life
is now being brought
into the fascist machine
of the Trump administration
and right as soon
he got into office
one of the things
that he said he was going to do
was stop congestion pricing
which was
talk about the long game
you were talking about playing
a long game
with the reckless drivers
accountability act
but the real long game
has been congestion pricing
because that has been going on
since basically
since I started covering this beat
in 2006
you know I mean we
I started supporting it in 2007
yeah so yeah
I mean it's
it's been a long long road
we finally got it in there
and then they wanted to take it away
right as soon as we
got it
so maybe you could talk about
specifically
your efforts to protect
what has turned out to be
an excellent policy
that is hitting its marks
and you know
policies aren't often
as effective
as this one is
so talk about your work
defending that
but also
what is called for
on a broader scale
that we have to defend
our cities
against these attacks
and how can we do that
effectively
and build those coalitions
that are needed to do that
so I started supporting
congestion pricing in 2007
you know with
Jeanette Sadiq Khan
as you know
as bold leader
Mike Bloomberg
proposed it
as part of his big
plan yc
sustainability initiative
I wasn't familiar with it
before that
and you know
that was another time
when this is something bold
that was proposed
and a few people got out and
and you know a lot of people
were like oh that's weird
that's going to be opposition
but I had some good
you know
tutors
here I'll give a big shout out
to Joan Byron
who was at the Pratt Center
at the time
and doing some amazing work
in the South Bronx
and
so we get on board
you know
then I'll skip the 15 years
of fighting for it
you know
and whatever Andrew Cuomo's
being against it
before he was for it
before he was against it
and of course it was tied
to the summer of hell
on the subways
which you know
got to kind of
roll yourself back to
but there was that summer
of just real
catastrophe on the subways
which did come in part
because Cuomo and other leaders
had starved the MTA
of the resources it needed
and it was mired and dead
and that was finally part
of pushing it over the finish
line
but even then
when they pushed it over
the finish line
they dragged its
implementation out
it was always going to take
a little while
because it needed federal
approval
and pretty complicated
but still it was
years added to it
for politics as well
but the amazing community
that it kept pushing for it
and in this case
is able to come together
it's not always
you know
it's pretty rare case
when a good livable streets
step
is also a good transit
financing step
that's a you know
what the sort of the beauty
of congestion pricing
is
is it really
brings those things
together
kept pushing
got it implemented
all that work done
and dogged
because yeah
like getting it through
the federal government
and you know
navigating this
city-state dynamics
you know
kept being work
and so when that was put
in jeopardy
because
Governor Huckle
who has
is now a good strong
supporter of it
put it on pause
look
believing it was going to be
bad politically
not only for her
but for democratic
congressional chances
and I never agreed
with that assessment
of the politics
but it wasn't
crazy to worry about
there was that same
suburban animus
toward the city
that was
being weaponized
by Republicans
we knew
we you know
we couldn't pause
that we had to be
pushing forward
and you know
it got put on pause
in the summer of 2024
and of course
there was this concern
oh my god
if Donald Trump is elected
he's gonna prevent it
but I also just think
there was this
if it gets paused
will it ever get
unpaused
regardless of what happened
so we reached out
to advocates
to say look
you know
we're happy to play
a supportive role here
let's talk about
what's going on
and there was good organizing
and people were out
in the streets
but no one had brought
together the stakeholders
for lawsuits
and it wasn't exactly
clear what the lawsuits
should be
because there were a few
different grounds
to be considered
a few different laws
there was some lawyers
who were interested
there were some
potential plaintiffs
so we said great
well we'll convene
the coalition
of legal experts
and stakeholders
who can then do the work
to figure out
who should be the plaintiffs
who should be the lawyers
should it be one suit
or two suit
or three suits
and
that's what happened
in our office
it led to the two lawsuits
that propelled energy forward
I think we're pretty clearly
gonna be decided
in the favor
of the plaintiffs
of congestion pricing
and that led
to a settlement
in which
Governor Huckle
agreed to take it off pause
get it implemented
before Donald Trump
could be in office
and yeah
then lo and behold
that put a
the state
and the MTA
in stronger position
to defend
against federal lawsuits
when they tried
to roll it back
and
I think we all knew
it would be a success
but honestly
it's more successful
than I even believed
it would be
in terms of
reducing traffic
easing congestion
and producing revenue
for
for mass transit
so
that says one
like stand up and fight
and you know
which was necessary here
through organizing
and litigation
and implementation
I mean credit to the
MTA
and Jano
and everyone who did the work
to implement it
as well as the lawyers
as well
as the advocates
and I think it also
just speaks to
in addition to
fighting back
against authoritarian
overreach
which uses cities
as its targets
part of why I am
still optimistic
why I'm excited
about Zoran's
mayoralty
I mean
if the line
of conflict
turns out to be
Donald Trump versus
New York City
which I think is
how it's very likely
to shape up
you know increasingly
after Kenahara
Zoran is elected
I mean
we don't want that
we wish we didn't have
National Guard
or federal troops coming
that we weren't fighting
these stupid retrograde
battles against lawlessness
but
to the extent that
that's how it lines up
we are the ones
with a place people love
to live
the fact that people
want to be here
from all over the country
and all over the world
that people are so
creative
that the artistic scene
that the business scene
that the creativity
that our vibrancy
like
we're going to win that
fight over time
because we have a model
which is creative
and economically generative
and
and people could just
see it with their own
eyes
so partly it's
stand up and fight
and then partly
it's lean into
what a joyful generative
creative economically
successful place we occupy
and let's just show that
to the world
keep carrying it forward
and I believe that's
part of how you
fight fascism and win
I'm basically a lifetime
New Yorker pretty much
and
when I was growing up
in the 70s and 80s here
things were rough
and there was
the almost universal
opinion that we could
not have nice things
then we got a few nice things
like Bryant Park
was one of the first nice things
and it was like wait
maybe we can have some nice things
looking at
the scene now
you've been in public life for
in one way or another
for 20 plus years in this city
you've seen a lot of change
in terms of
the appetite
and the understanding
of how our streets can change
what they can be used for
how they can serve
our residents better
has your sense of what is possible
changed
and
are you optimistic
about
the pace of change
and the momentum of change
could we have
even more nice things
than we ever dreamed of
I'll start by saying
the challenges are real
I feel very hopeful
and I'll get back to that
in a minute
but I don't want to do it
in a
Pollyannish
or naive way
New York City
faces a lot of very serious
challenges
and we gotta see them
and be honest about them
you know the affordability
when I started
we had an abandonment crisis
and you know the housing
I started renovating
a fit avenue committee
like the streets were abandoned
now they're so expensive
that people can't imagine
how they're gonna be able
to put down roots and live
and stay here
and that is a big challenge
and the city
will not be itself
if we can't address it
there is so little trust
in government
to deliver
and to build broader
community and solidarity
and that keeps getting eroded
by partisan political polarization
but also
when you have corrupt government
like Eric Adams
and so that
and putting that back together
and fixing it
is hard work
and you got this debate
between the
abundance and the populace
but you know
that it does
everyone's gotta figure out right
how do we make government
work better to deliver
Donald Trump is a giant threat
in all kinds of ways
that we could go on and on about
but everybody sees
and a whole new set of threats
you know like
what is AI
how's AI gonna work
and what do we do
all distracted by our devices
like so
that's a lot of problems
and so I don't want to
short shrift them
we do have the capacity
to confront them
and New York
is one of the most
brilliant places to do it
and you can see it
in like some days
you think
how could this city
work at all
and then you walk out
of your house
I mean this morning
I literally like
walked from my house
to coffee
about 10 blocks away
and I went by
three public schools
and the kids coming
into them
are just like
oh my god
that's the future
of our city
and it's because
we got some things
right in the past
of our city
and at PS1 18
there's a set of people
out defending
the open street
and saying
we need volunteers
to make it work
at my kids school
Brad was there
for the ribbon cutting
of our
bike corral actually
so yeah
it is
that sort of like
resolute optimistic
courage
and yes
can we have nicer things
like
we have to
if we're gonna make it
work
the things that they've done
in Copenhagen
or in Barcelona
that make it
lovely to live
in this city
and you know
sometimes you get those
things that push you
forward aggressively
in the way that
outdoor dining
emerged in the pandemic
and you're like
whoa
what the city
can be
is so much nicer
in a way that actually
really works
and then it gets
retrenched
and
then you got to go
push forward again
like it's gonna keep
being
some steps forward
some steps back
and sometimes
you're making progress
and sometimes
unfortunately
it's times of backlash
politically
these are times of
backlash
but
I think here
at the dawn
of the
Kenohara Mamdani
administration
at a moment
when
congestion pricing
is working
and
you know
34th street
even Eric Adams
is gonna help us
that become
a busway
and
we've got
the momentum
to pedestrianize
big swaths
of
lower Manhattan
and think about
what that looks like
in the outer borough
and momentum
on buses
and making them move
through the streets
of the city
this is a great moment
to make progress
and stitch those things together
I think people do get
that they're not
rarefied things
separate from
the fight for
inclusive
affordable
multiracial democracy
they're deeply woven together
and it's
our responsibility
to prove it
can't top that
nope
nope
I think we can end there
Brad
thank you so much
for joining us
and for all you do
you know
I think
sometimes I think
of safe streets
and the fight for them
as
the canary and the coal mine
of
larger political
struggles
because they're really about
power
who deserves space
on the street
who matters
who's weak
who's strong
who gets harmed
and who stands up
for those people
who get harmed
and I don't think anybody
in city government
there are more and more
examples these days
but I don't think
anybody has your track record
of standing up for people
who need help
whether that's on our streets
in our courtrooms
in city government
in general
and I just appreciate
that you'd approach
government
as a force
for helping people's lives
and
I'm looking forward to seeing
what happens next
as you said
hopefully under
Mayor Montani
and wherever you
wind up
next too
so thank you
for joining
The War on Cars
it's been great to be here
that's it
for this episode of
The War on Cars
thanks again
to comptroller
Brad Lander
remember
you can support us
and get exclusive
bonus content
pre-sale access
to live show tickets
free stickers
and more
by signing up on
patreon
at patreon.com
slash
The War on Cars pod
a big thanks to
everyone who supports us
including our top contributors
Charlie G of Human Powered Law
in Portland, Oregon
Mark Hedlund
Virginia Baker
and new this month
Brandon DeCoster
thanks Brandon
and please
pre-order our new book
Life After Cars
freeing ourselves
from the tyranny
of the automobile
because
pre-ordering
is really good for us
it helps build excitement
for the book
it helps get us
into more bookstores
let's spread the message
so we really appreciate it
you can do all of that
at lifeaftercars.com
we also want to thank
our friends at cleverhood
listeners of The War on Cars
can save 15%
on everything
in the cleverhood store
now through the end
of september
with code
livablecity
for the best gear
for cycling
and walking
you can go to cleverhood.com
slash war on cars
and thanks to
Upway
for a great deal
on a certified
pre-owned e-bike
visit
upway.co
and save $150
off any e-bike order
over a thousand dollars
with code
war on cars
now through the end of
september
again
that's
upway.co
The War on Cars
is produced with support
from the Helen
and William Mazer Foundation
this episode was edited
by me
it was recorded by
Justin Fernandez
at the Brooklyn Podcasting Studio
our theme music
is by Nathaniel Goodyear
transcripts are by Russell Greg
our logo
is by Danny Finkel
I'm Sarah Goodyear
I'm Doug Gordon
and this
is The War on Cars
Request an explanation for:
2 cars
2 cars featured
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.
Help improve this episode
See something that's not quite right? Our annotations are AI-generated and can sometimes miss the mark. Click the flag icon on any annotation to suggest a correction.
Report incorrect info
Suggest better explanations
Flag missing cars