Porsche 911 Turbo S vs Ferrari 296 GTB: Which Supercar Wins? | Porsche Realignment, Youngtimers vs Oldtimers & Auction Shockers

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Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

Hey Paul, you know I'm recording right?

Oh jeez you blew it again.

I did, hold on.

Oh Casey, by the way congratulations, I see that picture in the background.

Porsche was at PCA that put it on their Instagram feed, your 997 that you're selling?

Yeah man, looks good.

Yeah, it came out great and your photographer's great and I like his comment, the fact that

which our photographer does the same, which is try not to edit in post, just take the

great shot the first time and…

Yeah, it's all about just cropping and I always shoot my videos too.

I shoot everything, photographs and pictures in multiple lights so people can see any prior

paint work, matches, scratches, those sorts of things.

I believe that's the only way to be transparent but thank you for saying that Paul.

Yeah, I like it.

So I've already started the recording, I want to welcome everyone to Full Throttle

Talk and this is your favorite weekly podcast about all things cars but mostly Porsches

if we're being honest.

This week in Full Throttle Talk we're going to be talking about what you did in cars this

week, we're talking about automotive news and I have dropped in a lot of topics that

hopefully will cause some heated debate.

For example, the new Turbo S for our Ferrari 296 GTB, I think we already know what everyone's

votes are going to be.

We're going to talk about major market trends of old-timers versus young-timers so buckle

up this is going to be a great show so everyone welcome to the show.

So just back to our pre-show banter, Paul and I were talking about the fact that the

what's it called Paul once upon a time in Hollywood, Tarantino's doing a follow up

on that and you sold them a car, right?

Yeah, actually I was talking to my client, I sold a couple, oh gosh probably 15 years

ago a beautiful 69 Golden Green 911 E and when I was talking to the husband he's like

yeah Denise's, she's up in Hollywood or LA, they're down in Fallbrook because they're

using the car in the movie.

I don't know to what degree and I'll see her in a few weeks so hopefully I'll get more

information and I probably should have queued up a photo but it is a beautiful, if you

have seen Golden Green I'm sure Casey has but it's kind of like leaf green with a little

bit of urine in it.

Is that non-metallic or metallic Paul?

Non-metallic.

I can't say I'm familiar then.

And it was a sport-o-matic and it was so cool about it and it was a long convincing with

the owner, the old owner was the owner of our building and he passed away from cancer and

right after he passed away I sold it to this, I sold it a couple times and ended up with

this couple and they, and each time I sold it it already had a five speed manual in it

and everyone wanted to take the sport-o-matic badge off the back and I, it's still there.

I have convinced him, leave it, I think it's kind of a badge of honor.

I don't know, what do you guys think about leaving a sport-o-matic badge on when you

take out the automatic?

As long as Brad, as long as Brad Pitt's not the one driving and I assume this is going

to be a chick's car?

Well, it's the husband and wife but he's the wrench and she's the driver.

I mean, almost all the time on the Targ California other rallies they'll have a 930.

No, no, I met in the movie.

Who's using the car in the movie?

She's with the car so it'll be her in the car, I'm guessing.

Oh, cool.

All right.

But I have no idea.

I'll find out more about it.

So, you know, she told me when she was very excited to be on it and Brad Pitt and all that

and he told me what she was getting paid daily and he was excited by that and I was like,

not enough dude.

So it's not a star car.

It's not like Brad will be driving.

Okay, got it.

I don't know.

No, it's not the hero car like you said, which is what a mock Mustang or something.

Yeah, I know.

I think it is a mock and it's a really interesting 1970s color that everyone will remember not

fondly.

Right?

Yeah.

All right.

So let's jump to our first segment.

What'd you guys do in cars this week?

Casey, you're up first.

So I mentioned a couple of weeks ago on the podcast that I was a little reluctant to drive

the 964 to Lüft and I didn't really get into that.

But a couple of years ago I had surgery on my left foot and that surgery led to issues

pushing on the clutch.

So if you look behind me, I've been searching for a solution to make this better.

And this is a product, a clutch slave cylinder from a company in Germany called MPL and they

make a product that I ordered in March.

It took almost six months to get to me and was at the end of the day with shipping was

almost 500 bucks.

I had replaced the clutch slave cylinder and everything in line to make sure everything

was fine before.

But I installed this this week and honestly, for a lot of people this will dissuade them

from it, but the clutch feels very similar to what a 997 turbo feels like.

So boosted, but for my foot and for the pressure in the area where the clutch pedal hits, it's

perfect.

So I wanted to bring this to people's attention because if they have an issue like this and

it's all G50 cars excluding it's all sorry, I take that back.

It's all air cooled G50 cars.

It doesn't fit on GT3s or 911 turbos, but Carrera, 87 and later, 964, C2, C4 and 993,

C2, C4.

So it's awesome.

It fixed the problem.

Not for the Carrera.

The 915.

The 915 Carrera.

No, so it's a G50 and higher.

OK.

I think that's a great idea.

Because it's amazing and it solved my problem.

And I mean, I normally like I'm not this wasn't sponsored.

This is something I paid for, but I would recommend this to anybody that has any sort

of issue like that with their foot.

And to me, it made a huge difference and it made me enjoy driving my car that much more.

So kudos to them.

Well, kudos to them for actually making a product for an old car like that.

That's really cool.

I mean, that was not cheap to make.

And wow, that's incredible.

And the normal one is cast iron or something like that and probably weighs two pounds.

This thing is is milled aluminum and weighs, geez, nothing.

It's awesome.

It's really cool.

And the quality is insane.

It's awesome.

Hey, Dave, what'd you do?

What'd you do in cars this week?

We have had a busy, busy week, guys.

It's been, you know, it's all the loof prep, right?

So we've probably got six or eight cars.

Everyone is coming in all the out of towners.

We've got two things coming up.

Tharga Carolina starts next Tuesday evening, which is in little Switzerland,

North Carolina.

That's going to be two days, solid two days of driving, you know,

lots of partying, hanging out in the parking lot, hanging out with dudes,

all this stuff I love doing.

I then had to shake down Black Betty and we are putting the new

Sunderair AC in there.

So that went in the car as well.

That's working fantastic.

I'm doing a couple of mods to it in order to make the cosmetics a little bit

better of the control unit and so on.

I'll show you guys all that when we wrap that up.

But that's really cool.

That's actually going into your car as well, Tim.

And then the other, I mean, in your car as well, when I say that,

we're rocking on this interior.

So I'm not sure if you're going to be able to see that very well.

But that's one of your door cards right there for your interior where we've

integrated, well, it's a side view of the door card and a custom pocket

that we're making, an old school pocket that's going to go.

And then there's going to be this lovely little detail right here,

which is the hole to release the door.

Sorry, the way this is cropping it, obviously, it's not great on this crop.

But Tim's car had a bunch of woven leather in it that had been the

entire panel on the door inserts and so on.

But the entire panel was just done in woven leather.

So what we did was we refarvested some of that woven leather to pick up

the detail in the door panel.

And then we reused it here in the back as well to make these rear seat cushions

out of it. Square weave looks great, Dave.

Well, square weave was actually in the car, but the entire rear deck was there

was it was just carpeted the entire back.

So we're doing this.

The side panels are done in the rear, the rear package trays done,

the verticals done.

These pictures aren't doing it justice in terms of the cropping and whatnot.

But I thought this piece, Tim, you're really going to love because that's

going to give you some definition.

This will all be wrapped in leather and the top will be wrapped in leather,

cool stitching, all that kind of stuff.

We've really, really been super, super busy.

And then we're wrapping up your AC as well, as well as, you know,

everything else we are going in the shop right now.

So lots, lots going on.

Make sure you send that invoice directly to me so Julie doesn't see it.

I will, for sure.

Definitely not.

Here, your pigeon to Puerto Rico.

Exactly, 100 percent.

Well, that's cool. Thank you.

I really appreciate seeing the updates.

By the way, just to the record, I had no input on the design.

I just left it up to him and his guys after seeing all their work.

And I'm very happy that I did.

So that's the kind of trust you can have in Dave when you want to send the car.

So, oh, by the way, Paul and I had a vote that you weren't participating in,

that you have to start talking about some of your NASCAR drivers

that you're doing these hot rods for, because Paul and I both find it, I'd say.

Curious, curious, curious.

Well, NASCAR drivers buying hot rod 9-11s.

That to us seems curious.

So we want to know how.

So would you would you believe that they would have like, you know,

they should be driving Chevelle's or what?

Oh, yeah, yeah, a little bit of Chevelle's.

But, you know, here's a guy and we want to do something different

than we do maybe in our daily life.

They go one direction around a track.

And in and then we were talking about it, even when they get to tracks

where there's lefts and rights, they basically hire, you know,

a hot shoe to come in and drive for them and then go back to just driving in circles.

And now they're coming to you wanting a car known for doing

everything but driving in circles.

And I'm just sort of curious, you know, what Billy Joe Bob is fascinated

with in an old 9-11 and, you know.

Who would you be fascinated by an old 9-11?

I mean, that is the it's, you know, everybody loves them.

We want more NASCAR owner profiles, please.

OK, well, let's see.

What is it like to be in a car with them the first time

and they realize cars go in a different direction other than to the right?

I mean, do they cry?

These guys have cars, have some amazing cars.

They know what they're doing.

These guys are drivers for sure.

Oh, look at this thing.

It goes to the left.

And they're just like, sorry.

We're just making fun of them.

Yeah, it's OK.

Well, I mean, that's OK.

I'm sure you used to it.

The truth is the NASCAR drivers, some of them are some of the most,

you know, skilled drivers in the world.

Who is the driver you build a car for him?

I think that was went over and did a test drive.

Gordon, Jeff Gordon.

There you go.

And a freaking Formula One car.

And he like had no experience in those types of cars and was almost on pace

with the actual Formula One.

Yeah, he was he was with Juan Pablo Montoya.

And I think it was in the Williams car and he gets in there.

And I remember he was just blown away with brakes.

He was like cars, race cars can stop like this.

You're just not done.

Call is not done.

It's OK.

Jeff is a good guy.

He's very good.

He sees, you know, they're very involved.

He's involved with this new 10-tenths racetrack that's here.

You know, that's a roughly a two mile circuit that they've done private

club out near the the racetrack, the main NASCAR racetrack.

So Jeff's involved with that as well.

So, Dave, here's what you need to do.

Catch Jeff Gordon when you're helping with one of his cars,

a five minute little video interlude like, hey, why do you like this?

And then we'll just drop it in the show.

Beautiful. OK, I'll get I'll get bubble wallets.

We'll get get them all.

Yes, we'll get them all. Exactly.

We'll do a panel and why I want to go right and left.

Yeah, exactly. All right.

So Paul, you're up next.

What did you do?

Yeah. Are you finally out of your sick bed

and getting back to real life?

Well, as you saw, like the private videos,

I am starting to walk with a walker, big news with walking.

I did 157 meters in six minutes,

which was the most exhausting thing I've done.

But the big thing I did this weekend was

or this last week was Friday.

We went up to Good Vibes Breakfast Club

via Jennifer taking me in her Volvo XC60,

which was probably smart because when we left the house,

it looked like it looked nice and sunny and beautiful.

Hell, it's, you know, September in Southern California.

As we're on the freeway, I start to see that.

And then we get on Angeles Crest and we see that.

And that's 44 miles of that.

Oh, my God.

Have you ever been hit by a rock driving up there, Paul?

Yeah, a long story short.

When I first got my M-Coupe,

you see the signs that say falling rock

and actually saw rocks falling, drove over them.

Damn near close to salvage titled the car

with the only paintwork being one rocker.

And I'll tell you that story about driving over rocks.

Actually, we had to stop several times,

get my daughter, who's down from Portland,

visiting to kick rocks out of the road.

But then I did some high speed runs in my scooter.

But we made it up there.

And that was really, you know, the important thing.

It was exhausting.

You know, you know how it is when you're with your wife,

you know, like, hey, this will be fun.

This will be great.

You get them to do whatever it is you're going to do.

And it turns out it's not optimal.

And the whole time, she's just like, I am going to kill you.

But it was worth it.

It was weird, rainy up there, but there was still, you know,

hunter cars. I don't know who have any of you

been to Good Vibes Breakfast Club on Friday?

You have, you have Dave.

I have, yep.

I have the t-shirt to prove it, Paul.

Oh, OK. Wow.

You have one more than I do.

They have t-shirts.

I don't know who I bought it from, but they do have a t-shirt.

So, and we saw, you know, we saw the doctor yesterday.

Like I said, there's a rally in October.

I am vying to go.

The doctor didn't show up for the appointment.

And basically it's postponed till four days before the rally

on the thumbs up or thumbs down if I can go.

So I'm I am so anxious to to go on this rally.

I'm Dave, the fact that you're going with Charles Stanley

and this thing coming up, I am so envious.

I have not done a rally in so long.

It's just killing me.

Oh, we're we're going to have you out here for sure.

You're going to love it when you come out here for these.

So it's a great rally.

It'll be, you know, we'll do the one in the spring.

You'll be ready to go.

And Paul, it's the exact opposite of killing you.

It's motivating you. Yeah, true.

True. Yeah.

So the only thing I did in cars this week is I helped a friend

of mine, a neighbor who bought a Ferrari 296 GTB back in April.

And I'm like, where's the car?

I never see him driving it.

And then I finally corner him and he admits that he's never driven the car

and sitting in his garage and it's been sitting there with like 80 miles on it.

And I he said, he hasn't really learned how to use it.

The haptics, the modern Ferrari, so you have to have a bit of a decoder ring.

It's it's just is what it is.

So I went over there and I showed him how to use it and I took him on a drive.

He's had exotic cars before, but the interfaces and the new Ferraris,

if you're not used to them, if you're used to buttons and knobs,

it's definitely a little intimidating.

So that's what I did.

I freed a night.

I freed a Ferrari 296 from a hibernation and set it free.

It was a good experience.

Is there an owner's manual?

It's Italian, bro.

It's not normal.

So here's your car with complicated UI and you don't get an owner's manual.

You do. You do.

But do you know what, for example, do you know what what is it?

Adas, you know what that is, right?

Sure, sure.

It's all the European like safety stuff.

All right.

So all the Adas crap in his car was turned on and it's behind.

I think either three or four menus and maybe it was only two,

but it wasn't easy to find.

So he every when he had sign and trying to drive it,

the car was just flashing up all these things and like all this stuff.

And they just basically decided not to even he was, he was probably just

going to let the car just sit there for years and never drive it.

How long did he have it before you went and saved him?

April, April, this year.

Yeah, April.

It's almost October and get this, it is the nicest.

It's the nicest Ferrari 296.

I probably have ever seen a GTB and had options on it

that brought it up to like, I mean, five hundred and fifty or sixty thousand dollars.

And so it had carbon fiber wheels and had all this other doodads and stuff.

And he didn't even spec it.

Somebody specced it for him.

The dealer specced it for him.

That he said, I want this particular color and I'm interested in this thing.

And other than that, he just didn't really care.

They just basically made a very special car for him.

It was awesome. I'm just like, there you go.

Is he is he a NASCAR driver?

Which way do you come to clockwise around the island?

Right. Oh, oh, nice.

Look there, Paul. OK.

The pop quiz. What what watch are you wearing today?

Casey, you first.

Nothing. Nothing.

All right. Nothing.

All right. What is that, Dave?

Dave wins so far. I am wearing a Seiko rally watch.

This is a new copy of a vintage Seiko that was done back in the 80s, I think.

But this is a it's kind of a checkered flag inspiration, automatic watch.

So, you know, not terribly expensive watch, but, you know, I like the way it looks.

It's a good looking piece. Cool.

And Paul, what is that?

And mine is a Tudor black back bay black watch.

Why will it not? There we go.

There we go. There you go.

It's in brass, so kind of as you bear it.

And it's got a custom strap off of a military like canvas bag

made by a guy in Canada.

So it's kind of although it's new as of like five years ago,

it has a very vintage worn out look.

And ironically, Dave, I have the same watch that you do.

The original 1969 one, it looks like and I almost wore that today.

So I'll wear that next week.

Oh, that would be cool.

That's a very cool watch as well.

A good friend of mine has that watch.

So that's a very cool watch.

And the funny thing is I buy I buy used watches

because they're a better value.

And this was one of the few watches I bought new because if you can see it,

it's all brass and it patinas based on your sweat.

And the thought of wearing someone.

Yes, it's like it's like, you know, the Alcantara steering wheels.

And you just see him, you're like, I don't want to touch that.

And I hate Alcantara steering wheels.

I hate Alcantara, period.

But so this is one of the ones I sprung for a new watch

just because I didn't want to wear anyone else's DNA.

OK, thanks for that, Cher.

And that's the reason you put the fabric strap on it, too,

because you won't have nothing to do with somebody else's DNA.

Exactly. Yeah, lovely.

All right. So moving, moving along with you guys, what about you?

What's on your wrist there, buddy?

I am I'm wearing my Submariner

because I know you guys will that's fits to type.

And I'm thinking, of course.

Yeah, well, OK.

So before you say before you say anything, Kramer,

I'm going to start calling you Kramer.

All right, Julie gave this to me on my first Father's Day.

Come on. That's awesome.

And did but did she right on the back, you know, like drive safely

or something iconic like the Paul Newman watch?

No, she didn't. Oh, yeah, she should.

Yeah, she should just one day go into your watch case, grab it

and go get it inscribed to something, you know, personal.

You're the key to not over collecting watches.

I've discovered this little secret of your maybe like two or three years ago.

It's by one case that only has so many openings.

And once it's full in order to buy something new,

you have to replace something you have and I can't sell stuff.

I'm a bit of a hoarder, so that means I don't buy any more watches.

I'm done. I literally bought two in the last month.

I can't help myself.

You got a lot of time to be shopping right now, Paul.

No, they just they fall in my inbox and it's like it's horrible.

I'm like, well, that doesn't seem so bad.

And next, you know, and my wife's got to the point

where she just knows the shape of the boxes and it's got like a EU,

you know, label or whatever on it.

She's like, did you buy another watch?

Casey, what's your dream watch?

If you have one watch, just dream watch, have it forever.

It's only watch you'll ever wear.

One and one.

I'll so I'll tell you quick.

I love my Speedmaster.

It's my favorite watch that I own.

And I probably won't get another expensive watch

just because that one's kind of peak for me.

But I was at a clients the other day and he was wearing an Explorer one,

which I think is a really awesome watch.

And he said, oh, let me show you this.

So he took it off and showed me the back of it and had coordinates on it.

And I was like, well, that's cool.

And this guy, he's he's done a lot.

He's seen a lot. And he's like, that's the that's a mountain I climbed.

I was like, OK, that's cool.

I was like, well, where was the mountain?

He's like, oh, it's the tallest peak on Antarctica.

And I was like, OK.

So he was like, yeah.

And he told me the story of how he wore this Explorer one

to go to the peak of this 16,000 foot mountain in Antarctica,

where it was at night, it was negative 92 degrees ambient before wind chill.

And I was like, if I'm doing stuff like that,

I could probably justify buying an Explorer one.

So until I do that, we're going to we're going to hold off on that purchase.

But no, I love my Speedmaster.

I think that's about the most perfect watch.

I love how he's kind of didn't like just brag about his ridiculous adventure.

You had to kind of pull it out of him.

I mean, whoever that guy is, straight up badass for sure.

You have no idea.

I mean, we were talking about cars that he regretted selling.

And I've I've sent you guys some of his stuff before.

But he said number one was his Lark F1 long tail.

Lark. So we'll just we'll just leave it there and move on.

But yeah, I encounters how old is he?

Early sixties.

Yeah, you have to be that age to be that interesting, frankly.

Yeah, he is he is like he is top tier.

You know, the stories he's got is awesome.

So yeah, awesome. That's cool.

All right. So I mean, Tim, which is really quick, Tim,

do you have a Holy Grail watch that like you would maybe have to sell something to get?

I mean, honestly, guys, if it's not for the sake of I like watches and whatnot,

but I'm honestly, I'm more like Casey on most days.

I don't even want to draw attention to anything I've got on my wrist.

And I just don't like to wear things that draw attention.

And and it just in the guy world, a lot of times guys will try to

I mean, it's a conversation starter, what a watch is.

And I guess being totally transparent,

I don't always want to be engaged in conversation.

So if I don't wear a watch, there's not a little hook for someone to pull me in.

But it just depends on the environment.

But you have to I mean, honestly, watches are I try to use them as benchmarks.

I'm sure you get well, unlike Paul, it just buys them.

But I try to use them as a, you know, little cornerstones,

and I'll just put them in the drawer.

But as far as a goal watch, I've had all kinds of different ideas,

but I've changed my mind about all of them.

Rolexes to me are pretty much the perfect watch.

I'm not a big person, so they fit my wrist really well.

I try it on a friend.

So you guys know what Richard Millay is, right?

So we went out to drinks the other night with my friend,

who's a big former, you know, professional baseball player and the guy's huge.

And I asked him, he let me try his Millay on.

It was like some freaking four hundred thousand dollars, something or another.

And I swear to you, the case was bigger, wider than my wrist.

So that's out. Yeah.

Anyway, yes. All right.

So you guys want another pop quiz just for fun?

Do you want to move on to content?

Don't care. Pop quiz is fine.

All right. So what's the hottest, most talked about car of 2025?

And so what's the most hottest, most talked about car of 2025 of all brands?

And will and we'll see what and what will be the it girl

are the most talked about car in 2026?

One answer and it has to be quick.

Dave, you're first. Oh, no, don't make me go first.

Oh, no, you're going first.

You're going first. Well, I mean, the most talked about car in 2025.

I don't know. I mean, I so I'm so Porsche focused.

That's fine.

But I, you know, for me, I'm going to go.

We'll go with, you know, the new turbo ass, I guess, you know, that's probably

now the most talked about.

I'm not sure if it'll be the most talked about.

It's certainly talked about.

And then, you know, I think we're going to pivot

into a subject about the Porsche brand overall.

But we are. I don't think I have a lot in that fight.

Casey, what about you?

What's what's the most talked about?

You can call it, you can, you know, Instagram car, you know, whatever.

If 2025 and what will be the most popular talked about car in 2026.

So you bring this up a lot and you've sent us some videos in our WhatsApp chat

regarding Dave's next car, the GT3 RS.

And, you know, I look after a lot of these cars.

I've driven a lot of cars.

I ordered a lot of the cars.

I took European delivery of two of those cars, so I'm very familiar.

And I watched a video, some influencer was on in the background yesterday.

But I think that's it.

I think that that's going to continue to be it.

I think it's going to be the the number one car in the world that all of them,

they must all, they must all live in Montana.

I mean, from what I can tell.

But I mean, hold on, hold on, no, no, no, no.

I think nearly every GT3 RS in the United States, at least 90 percent of them

live, they all live in Montana, which is great.

That must be a really nice place.

You guys are hypocrites.

So Casey, you just baited me trying to get me to be political

and you guys admonished me when I did not at all.

I was just I was just making a joke.

But anyway, I do think that the 20 I do think that the GT3 RS is is peak peak.

It's it's become aspirational.

It's become fashion.

What about next year, Casey?

You think it'll be the same next year?

I think it's going to be whatever replaces that car.

OK, I think that car is probably I think that's got to be on the precipice.

What did you just say?

What were your answer?

Would you say to two RS?

I think we're going to RS, which is the rumored, you know, car

that they're going to come out with next year.

And they probably won't have a GT3 RS in 2026 is my guess, right?

Paul, what's your answer?

I mean, my answer is this is literally every cars and coffee

for the last year, I'm so frickin tired of it is ADMs and tariffs.

You know, it has nothing to do with the car.

They're just talking about how much extra it's going to be to get their GT3 RS,

which even, you know, Dave, you've experienced a bit of that.

So I think the GT2 RS will certainly be the conversation, darling,

of next year, possibly.

Also, we're going to start to see the tourings, you know,

with a GT3 touring with a rear seat option.

And I like I know.

It's I throw up in my mouth a little bit, which is hard because I love the brand,

but I, I hate the, the just narrowing and slicing it in, in like the big

marketing hoopla is you can put rear seats in and I'm just like, you got to be

kidding, but don't, don't jump on our next topic yet.

Casey, I wanted you guys, can you pull up the notes?

I did a step research on our next topic.

So one of you guys can have this handy.

I'm monitoring multiple screens.

I agree with what you guys said.

I think the hot car right now is what Dave is getting.

And I think personally, even though they're making more of the,

they made supposedly around 5,000 of those cars, I personally think that's

going to be one of the hottest cars to Casey's point forever, because the

generation loves them.

And I think the most talked about car next year is going to be the GT2 RS.

I would be shocked if that wasn't the case.

All right.

So let's do you think that the GT2 RS is going to be so much more expensive

that it's not going to be as aspirational as the, as the GT3 RS?

I mean, that's a really good point.

It's going to be 500.

That's a good question.

They, they could charge $500,000 for that car.

And I know that $500,000 or $300,000 is a ton of money.

But, you know, you can, a lot of people, I'm assuming, not myself,

could stretch to something like a GT3 RS, if it's their aspirational

poster board type thing.

But half a million dollars is a lot more for people of that kind of coming up range.

Let me drop something on this.

And again, this is all new to me guys, honestly.

But I, in the sense I started doing this podcast with you guys, I've been

really researching a lot about how these younger people, especially after

going to cars and coffee the other day or last, you know, last month or whatever.

By the way, I concluded that cars and coffee has become the, you know,

the, the chacal, what is it called?

The out in the desert, that big music festival.

The Burning Man, Burning Man.

Coachella?

Oh yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Coachella.

It's become the Coachella of music.

In other words, basically it's a place to be seen at more than it is about cars

anymore, but that aside.

Uh, but how did kids pay for these kids, right?

I can say that now that I'm 55.

How do those kids pay for those expensive cars?

They all finance them.

That's what they're doing.

And I was really, I've researched that and I'm trying to understand like, okay,

that's a whole world.

I don't know about, about financing these really expensive cars.

And what they're doing a lot of times is they're financing and then they're

sharing the car and sharing the payment, not a Toro type deal with their buddies.

And so they're sharing this car amongst a small group of friends and they're,

that's how they're buying these really expensive Lamborghinis and Bugatti's and

whatnot.

And with interest rates going down, I think that frankly, Dave's holding a

winning hand with the car he's getting.

And I think that's the reason that we're going to start seeing an escalation in

these more expensive cars.

Are you going to go up in value?

Cause frankly, more people will be able to afford them.

Casey?

So for when I sold these cars new, this was a cash transaction.

This, this sharing and like I'm very familiar with automotive financing

because I was part of it and called in deals.

So I don't know how they're getting creative to make this happen because you

have to show proof of income and then it's debt to income ratio.

It's just like buying house.

So I don't know how it's accomplished, but I believe exactly what you're saying.

To me, I guess stuff is just getting more and more creative.

There's whole podcasts that are about folks in their 20s and 30s that are

doing exactly what I just said.

I mean, that's where I've learned about this, but look at what is it called?

Paul Ogara coach.

Is that the big deal?

Yeah, the, the big dealer.

They, I don't know, they do all those super cars out here.

Yeah.

Go on their website.

They advertise payments.

They're advertising payments on these really, really expensive cars.

Or you've got like we, we, we partner with Woodside credit just cause

they're easy and they'll do vintage cars and some exotics and their rates are

crazy, but it's super easy.

You have to have good credit and they'll, they'll do it.

But I think with the new, I mean, first of all, well, Porsche is making you,

are they making you lease the GT3 RS or is that just the ST?

ST.

Just the ST.

So, but I would be, I would be really curious to see the GT3 RS's that are

current, that were purchased.

How many of those were leased?

Cause I'll bet you a majority of those were leased.

I've been shocked about that one in case.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

And your neck of the woods, especially.

Oh yeah.

Well, you know, we, we joke about Southern California, you know, most people live

in shit boxes and drive nice cars.

And that's kind of the thing.

I'll tell you guys a funny, quick story.

Julie and I were, this was back during the housing crash.

It was an 07.

And get ready to get, make fun of me guys ready.

All right.

So we bought a slightly used 07 Lamborghini Gardo spider and we bought it from

a guy that was in the real estate business that wanted to sell it.

It was a great car.

And anyway, so I'm sitting, we park it in the parking lot and some guy pulls up

next to me in a replica Cobra or whatever.

And without just really nice car nerd stuff.

And then he starts telling me how he hasn't made his house payment in like,

you know, 12 months, saved up the money.

He had his, you know, essentially the whole Southern California thing.

My point is being on Ohio boy, the way that Southern California people, not

all of them, but a lot of them look at credit and look at money.

It's different than say an East coaster type, more conservative.

So your exposure to all this is, you know, Casey and I's exposure to all this is

probably more limited versus yours.

That's my only observation.

Yes.

All right.

So let's go on to automotive news.

And this is a big topic.

And I think this is something Casey, thank you for proposing this.

I think if you guys are okay with it, we can just encapsulate this as the topic.

So who wants to, first of all, talk about what it is.

And it's essentially Porsche's strategic realignment and what the hell it's

actually going to mean to us car nerds.

Who would like to present?

So I'll start only because I'll let you guys dive into it.

But I wanted to thank a listener who actually posted something about this.

Um, they started, uh, they commented on something that, that I posted.

I think it was one of our collaborative posts.

And then we've become kind of friendly, uh, and over, over messaging, but they,

they follow Porsche's, um, uh, investor news.

And of course this was done in Germany.

And then of course it trickled in the United States.

But I wanted to thank that listener for bringing this to my attention.

And of course the, what Paul has up behind him currently is, is what he sent me,

which is all public information.

And I actually sent it to some of my friends at PCNA and I was like, can I

talk about this?

And I'm like, well, we saw something that looked like this, but it was not nearly

this in depth.

So thank you to that listener.

I appreciate it.

Let's take a victory lap.

This is breaking news, sort of not really, but kind of, um, and thank you for

you guys who are participating in helping us make the shows better.

Any ideas, tips or suggestions, always message them or direct message, uh, to us

in Instagram or all the contacts for all the hosts are down below.

You can message them directly as well.

Sorry, Casey.

No, so, so anyway, uh, the, the long and short of it is we talked to the other

week and we even, I, we even, um, talked to some people on Instagram or message

with them, but basically Portia's pivoting.

Portia sees the issues with Bev vehicles, battery electric vehicles, not

necessarily being the future and they have to pivot.

Uh, the most, the biggest thing, um, that I saw that came out of this is the

thing that I'm most excited about is hybrid McCann.

Um, but then other thing that they're also talking about is top range seven

18 cars making a return in, in ice format.

Um, and I'll let, uh, Dave, why don't you, uh, I know that you and I talked

about this a little bit.

What did you think about what you saw?

Well, you know, obviously the, the whole concept of them extending or moving

the big win that I saw in there was making sure that they had a replacement

for the seven 18 in an ice car.

Cause I think that was a giant hole that they had where they were going to

lose a lot of that entry level market for, for these cars if they did not do

that.

So I thought that was fantastic.

Was it entry level though?

Dave, was the entry level, were the entry level cars in the seven 18 range going

to be the ice cars or the EV cars?

My impression was the ice cars and trolling combustion engine cars were

going to be the high end cars and the EVs are going to be the entry level.

Did you read something different?

That may well be.

I guess my point being that at least they're still going to have an ice car.

Yeah.

In a, in an area and when I say entry level, obviously the seven 18 line is kind

of Porsche's entry level sports car.

So they don't seem to have something in the wind for a new entry level sports car.

But, uh, uh, I thought that was great news.

And likewise, my feeling on the, as we've talked about before, my feeling on the

McCann that they're going to have both, uh, a McCann EV, a hybrid and an ice car.

And then this new car, which is going to now also be an ice car and a hybrid,

then the new car, um, I believe it's a, I believe it's a three row, if I'm not

mistaken, K nine or whatever, from what I understand, from what I understand,

it's a three row SUV.

And that's just from, there's, that's just from the research that I've done.

Okay.

So the McCann replacement is in fact some new car, but, um, I mean, that's

where, that's where this whole thing has to work for Porsche in order for them

to continue to succeed the rest of the cars, but they're calling their

sports limousines, which I thought was really kind of interesting because it

has four seats, it's a limousine, right?

Um, but those, you know, those cars are kind of, you know, they sit there.

If you need a four door, that's what you want, but they're making their

money obviously on the SUV side.

So I thought the, the realignment on SUVs made a ton of sense to me.

Can we vamp on stuff?

Can we vamp on something other than the mommy wagons and talk about the GT

cars and the special edition cars?

Well, cause, and then Paul has got this slide up.

If you guys aren't watching on YouTube, what he's showing is a video or a

little slide from the presentation that essentially, you know, rattles off with

their, with the direction they're going.

And I'll tell you what I, I went through the whole thing and I ran it through

AI just to make sure I didn't miss anything.

My takeaway was they're going to make a crap ton more of these special

edition, you know, vinyl livery, GT variants, and they, you know, rambled on

about, you know, more manual transmissions.

And I just, they're basically wrote down the list of their best USBs that

caught unique selling propositions that cause these, there you go GT adventure,

heritage, urban, I mean, okay.

And, and then you dig into it and it does seem to me like they're going to cash

in on their high value customer in more ways than they can probably keep track of.

And I just don't know how that works out at the end of the day when there's

that many special editions or variations that are close enough to the numbered

special edition cars that they're indiscernible thoughts.

When I worked for Porsche, they, they stated something that they can only

build X amount of cars.

Um, so in order to increase profitability, of course, you take that X amount of

cars and you slide it upscale because there's always seems to be people that

want to buy the upscale car and just like Ferrari being able to profit more off

of more expensive vehicles, Porsche pushes option content.

They push these high end vehicles like GT three RS's and those sorts of things.

And that's what they make the most amount of money on.

And I believe it's about the law of averages, taking those expensive cars and

also being able to supply lesser expensive cars such as Cayenne, um,

McCann and seven 18 and then averaging out the two and making those lesser

expensive cars, introducing the people to the brand there and then having them

be more aspirational to move up market.

It makes sense.

And you know, they're probably using the more expensive cars to subsidize the

lesser expensive ones.

Were you guys surprised how small their margins were?

Like, what was it?

Less than 3% right now.

I mean, that's kind of like automotive manufacturing in general.

I mean, it's not a, it's not a profit.

I mean, it's, it's volume.

Um, I wasn't surprised.

In fact, I would say 3% is probably pretty good.

If you go to someone like GM or a hue or cilantro, I'll bet you it's maybe

2% or even under 2% and you guys are going to have to scold me on this.

And I'll, I don't mind exposing my ignorance, but when they say 3%, is that

3% when they sell it to the dealer, that's their margin, because I know Ferrari

supposedly, and I'm not, again, I'm not sure if I'm comparing apples to apples.

When Ferrari says they make an average of like 20 or 25%, is that from

manufacturer to the dealer, or is that from manufacturer to the retail customer?

You guys understand?

Yeah.

What you're seeing in the slides behind Paul, that has to do with PAG.

That doesn't have anything to do with importers of vehicles outside the United States.

So when it comes to profitability, I don't think anyone will ever figure

out how much it costs Porsche to make a car.

But I do know that when it came time, we've talked about this before, but when

it came time to that era of a couple of months where Porsche was sending cars

to the United States and completely eating the tariff, whatever it was at

that point, 15 or 17%, that was not being passed on to the client, even

though that people are still buying the car for the agreed prior MSRP.

So when you look at something like that, that does, as Dave mentioned,

significantly take down profitability for a period of time.

And I'm assuming I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche lost money this year in that,

or a lot of German car manufacturers lost money this year in doing that.

But as we've discussed before, Germany's biggest export is cars.

They need to make this work or it's really bad for Germany.

So that's what Paul is getting on.

And of course, you as well, Tim.

One of those slides had, I mean, if you look at their original forecasting

on one of those slides, I mean, that's really the overall profitability

of the company is what I was seeing there as I looked at it.

And they had to re forecast it looked like three times as they're heading

toward the end of the year.

And it's basically, I think they had 10, I can't remember what it was,

but they had 10% overall margins in, you know, even on margins at one point.

And now it's sliding down to almost neutral or 2% or something like that.

So all the tariffs, all the pressure from China, you know, lack of sales

definitely has pressed down on it for sure.

It didn't look like it was dire, but, you know, I mean, it was certainly

going to be almost a break even years, what I was reading in that deck.

Before this becomes automotive accountant nerds, let's talk about what actually

happens to the special cars.

And that's really where I'm, what I'm curious about, because in this presentation,

they made it really clear that they're going to be cashing in on all the, you know,

their best customers.

So when they're, when they, so like, you know, for example, we've all concluded,

I, you know, that there's going to be a GT3 cabriolet.

OK, and then there's going to be, and then there's going to be Paul,

you kind of did both.

You're OK there.

I just hope they don't call it that.

I mean, where did they call it?

But I thought they were going to call it the GT, GT3 something cabriolet.

But then they're going to have the speedster and then they're going to have that.

OK, so then they're going to have that this, this, this, this, this.

OK, the 911 ST, it's got all these special doodads on it.

Well, you're going to put the ST parts on the speedster.

I'm kind of, you know, figuring all this out.

And then, OK, well, then your base car, make sure you put a manual transmission in it.

Well, it's the same manual transmission mechanism from the more expensive GT3.

It just gets confusing.

My little P brain can't really sort out.

Like, OK, I mean, there was already too many 911s.

And now if I'm the ender in there and I walk into the special room

where they have all the selections of wheels and crap, you know,

and then it's really confusing, like, oh, and how many different variants

of different decals or stickers are they going to start selling?

Well, there there was a I was watching the other day on throttle house.

One of the guests or one of the the host was testing three cars.

And it was a 992 Carrot T, a 992, the new the new GTS and then a GT3 touring.

And he's just sort of like he keeps getting in the wrong one.

He's like, what's the difference?

You know, and as portioners like, well, of course, this one's this.

And it goes back to just another, you know, they're like taking the automotive

mandolin and just slicing it thinner and thinner.

And I look at this report.

And the funny thing is I get this sort of

verklempt old days in corporate world where they try to spin bad news

to make it look OK.

And you're like, that looks like shit news to me.

You know, like, hey, this is going to be great.

We're going to just do a few things.

Your lifestyle is going to be screwed for a while, but it'll be OK.

But I'm looking at this going, OK, the plug-in hybrid, the con,

that is going to be their bread and butter.

They're going to get a bunch of revenue from that car.

Period. Will it be will it be made in Tennessee?

Where are they going to move production?

I wonder, I think I think they are so they're so hesitant about.

I mean, the Germans, they move slow anyway.

I don't think they have a facility there.

It's called Volkswagen.

And they would make prove their margins by 15 percent instantly.

Well, well, the car I would picture there, kind of like how BMW and Spartanberg

did, was they moved their SUVs there and they moved their Z3 Roadster.

And what I picture them doing is taking that new 718 ice engine, base ice

engine manual, and that would be a I mean, that that car could almost be,

you know, imagine it's a it's a GTI, you know, R in a 718 four cylinder

turbo that gets made in Tennessee.

So that's here or there.

I think what's going to happen is the plug in hybrid.

McCann is going to be one end of the revenue, just bolstering revenue

to get them back up.

And then, like you said, Tim, they're going to basically take all of these

high end GT products, go to the Ferrari way, have, you know, each dealer

is going to try to get, you know, 30 to 40 percent of the MSRP in options added to it.

They're going to be incentivized to do that.

Yep.

And, you know, and they're not going to be the dealer is not going to be selling

stuff afterwards.

They're going to be selling stuff with the build.

And those two ends are going to cover up the nut, maybe.

Casey, what's the average?

Like what's the percent margin that a dealer makes back when you were

selling porces, you know, the average.

So traditional MSRP to invoice, it was roughly 10 percent based on just base

price of the car and options were closer to 15.

So it depends on how expensive the car is based upon that.

But in terms of that, go ahead.

The dealer is probably making more money than Porsche was making the cars in the

first place.

Well, you know, that's not the case now, because the dealerships now are feel,

I mean, I still have a lot of friends in the business and I talk to them.

And I know I just referred a client to buy a Panamera.

I know what he bought that Panamera for and he had to pay the extra

couple or percent for tariff.

And it did not work out well for the dealership, but they're moving product.

And if you sell product, then it gives you the opportunity for finance reserve.

It gives you the opportunity to sell wheel and tire.

I mean, it gives you all these profit centers that gets more people on the

road to get you more referral businesses, all those things.

So they're in the business of selling cars, not holding cars.

But pretty terrible business, pretty terrible business model now, though.

Honestly, it's really because the margins on that junk, that's a scary business model.

It's a survival business model.

That's all they're trying to do.

And I mean, I was there in 2008.

I know Paul was there in 2008.

He knows how difficult selling cars were.

And that's where Porsche started to refocus their allocation

and their cars to emerging markets, Russia and China primarily.

So it's cyclical.

It comes back being that Porsche sees how much these cars are selling for in the public.

Why wouldn't they charge more? Hell, yeah.

I mean, I mean, you the only people default for this is the people that buy the GT3 RS,

the 911 ST, the whatever, throw them on bring a trailer, get an extra

$100,000 profit, and then they're surprised when the car goes up 10% year to year.

I mean, what are you doing?

I mean, don't don't sell your car.

I think you don't want prices to go up.

I think Porsche for years has been frustrated by the by the US dealer

mark, you know, the dealer network, where they're getting all the money on the ADM.

And I think they've always tried to figure out, hey, we're building the car.

Why do they make more profit?

We should be making more profit.

And I think what's eventually going to happen when we're starting to see it

is the ADMs will shrink because the cars will be so damn expensive.

Just MSRP and that'll solve the problem.

Speaking of which, isn't the MSRP?

You guys correct me if I'm wrong on the new 911 Turbo S.

Isn't it like 300 grand?

And I mean, isn't that the start price on the new one?

Well, look at those.

Look at those turbo 50 years.

Those things are selling for like 350 grand for a turbo.

I mean, congratulations to Paul's buddy, Torsen, that clearly made a beautiful car.

But that's an insane amount of money for that car.

The cars are great.

Don't get me wrong, but 350 grand.

I mean, it's effectively it's effectively the same.

The same car is a, you know, a 22 turbo S that you could you used to be

able to get for 220 grand, walk into the dealership and order one.

Well, I think where the world is entering into a phase that is unfamiliar to all of us.

It'll be interesting for us to vamp about it every week on full throttle talk.

Because clearly, clearly prices are going to go up.

The, you know, people are saying, oh, the base 911 T and 130 grand is too expensive.

Maybe not.

Maybe that's the deal of the century if you want a new Porsche.

So it's crazy.

And so Paul, you had something in the notes.

I think maybe we covered it all with regards to dealer networks and whatnot.

But I think we probably talked enough about.

Yeah, we covered it.

Yeah, definitely.

All right.

So let's see.

Let's move on to the next topic.

I'm making sure.

Am I skipping over anything you guys have prepared?

Hopefully I'm not.

You had the pop quiz on.

I'm getting there.

Okay.

Pop quiz.

If you put it in the thing.

Casey, I don't like to be surprised.

Casey, I have to let these elderly gentlemen prepare ahead of time.

Otherwise you get, you see these little panicked sweat beads coming off their heads.

So I think we should do that.

I think that makes for good radio.

I had a full head of hair when full throttle talk started.

Yes.

It's called full follicles.

And then I stressed it out.

I think I agree with Casey.

Actually, it'd be fun to make you guys sweat.

All right.

Pop quiz, like Paul tried to do with me last week, pop quiz.

One answer, some 997 GTS or, uh, or a well option 997 S can near, uh, can

listen near or just under a 991.1 S, which would you go for, especially if

both were manuals in great condition?

Boy, I wrote that terribly, but you guys get the gist of it.

So a nice 997 GTS or a well option 997 S is roughly in the same price range

as a 991.1 S, which would you go for if they're both manual and in great

condition?

There you go.

Just, just a quick clarification.

A 997 S manual is actually worth more than a 991.1 S manual.

For instance, this one answer, oh 991.1 anything.

Um, and by the way, a 997 GTS manual, now you're looking at 991.1 GT3.

That's the, that's the dollar comparison.

And I don't care which 997 manual you throw at me.

Uh, you pay more, you get less 991.1 all day long.

Dave, we haven't heard from you in a while.

Which would you choose 997?

Not even a question, not even a slightest doubt in my mind.

Uh, you know, I'm a 997, uh, yeah.

Contrary and so to speak, but I had a 13, 911, 991 S that I loved, loved,

loved, kind of regret selling it because the prices have definitely gone up.

Great car, very still, still very close design wise.

That's why I think people like this car.

It's not a giant leap to get from that car to a 992.

So it's a great looking car.

It thrives beautifully.

I don't know why anybody needs more than 400 horsepower to be candid.

You know, I mean, that S was all the car I could really, I mean, what am I going

to use more?

I've got a, you know, RS coming, but that was a great car.

I mean, I would, I would absolutely pick that car.

Besides your well-documented being a 997 hater.

So we got you on that one.

All right, just kidding.

Casey, you're up next.

What would you choose and why?

So, so I'm going to twist it a little bit.

Um, 997 GTS, if it's a stick, um, I think I prefer the six speed in

that car versus the seven speed in the first gen 991, which to me is a detractor.

I love PDK 991s.

I think that's fantastic.

Um, but I had the, uh, I drew the short straw and went to Estrel for the

world launch of the 991 second gen.

And I have a really great feeling for that car.

Um, so I would, uh, it would be a hard toss up between a stick 991.2 and a 997

GTS, but to be a contrarian, I'll stick with 997.

Yeah, I'd choose the 991.1 too.

Cause I think those cars are proportionally prettier.

The whole thing about it's better.

The interiors alone, which I think Dave will have me have my back on this one.

Uh, are so much better made.

Sorry, 997 owners.

I had 997 too.

So I speak it from experience.

All right.

So let's bounce off to the next question and we'll get back to my pop quiz.

Cause, um, I like my pop quiz question, but all right.

So segment three, choosing your, this was, I think Paul, you proposed this, right?

Segment three.

Yeah, I think so.

I think so.

You want to, you want to read the question?

Yeah.

Choosing your weekend car to truly fit your goals.

How do you decide what goes into the mix when making that decision?

For example, regional preferences, access to driving roads, access to the right mechanics,

your willingness to deal with just the quirks and idiosyncrasies of an old car.

Do you have kids or not?

You know, all these different things, which, ironically, Tim, as I was reading this, I

was thinking, none of my clients actually think about this shit.

And then they get the car for all the wrong reasons and they sell it because it

doesn't actually fit their lifestyle.

It was just something on Instagram that said that, oh, their life would be better

with this car.

So let's, let's, you can, you can go last or summarize because I, your opinion as

well established on this podcast, but I think honestly, I would like to hear that

you dust off the, the vamp or dust off your soapbox and go back to that.

Cause I think it would save a lot of listeners from the anguish of choosing

the wrong car.

So Casey, what about you choosing the right weekend car?

What should, you know, when you're advising one of your clients or maybe

a friend and they're choosing one car, how do you go about helping them decide?

It's like spike.

Remember the TV show Spike used to have?

What was it called?

Oh, car matchmaker.

Yes, that's what we're doing.

Basically, what are the filters?

Go ahead, Casey.

So for me, um, you know, going back to Porsche, you know, I told them, I didn't

care what Porsche people bought.

It's like ice cream, you know, most of ice cream is good.

It just depends on which flavor that you like.

For me personally, um, I love 964s.

That's why I own one.

A car closed on P car market, which I was going to put in our auction thing, but

I'll leave it for today, but it was extremely rare car.

It's behind me.

The photos and representation were average at best, but it's a 90.

It's a 1992 964 RS touring.

So they made 964 RSs in three versions, basic, which is what people are used to.

Club sport, which is completely stripped out, basically the same as a super cup.

And then they had or a cup car rather, and then they have the touring model.

The touring model had AC, had power steering, had the awesome seats that we

all love out of 80s and 90s Porsche sports cars.

And they were done in like three tone leather that look like 964 RS seats.

Um, and it was the same engine, the same transmission, the same flywheel, the same

stitch welded chassis, but just it was a real touring model, kind of away from

what Porsche is going to now.

But for me, that would check every box.

Um, and I can't believe this car only sold.

It was in France, so people were scared of it.

And the representation showed it with two different sets of wheels on it.

But it hammered for 170.

You could probably get that.

You could probably get that car in the, I think it was 170.

Let me double check here.

But you could probably get that car in the United States for 200 grand.

It had, it was Miley.

It had a bunch of, I think it had 170,000 kilometers, something like that.

Why do you think it was 30 grand to bring it in, Casey?

Uh, well, I would fly it over.

Um, that costs money.

Um, that's 30 grand kind of things.

So, so I take that back 235,000 kilometers.

Um, so all of the importation stuff, you'd want to fly somebody over there to

inspect the car prior to buying it.

And that stuff costs money.

But that to me, I think is about as perfect as a car gets.

And I hate to, I hate to be really predictable.

But as Paul, I'm assuming was thinking right now when he posed this question.

But so when you're choosing, if you were choosing that car, you, that would

make sense for you or one of your friends that are in the area of country

where you live, because there's a lot of mechanics and whatnot, right?

So, and that car has a lot of practice and you can use it for a lot of different things.

But Paul, I mean, Dave, what's your answer?

Like when someone's choosing a car and you're trying to choose the perfect,

you have these questions all the fricking time from your clients.

You talk about this all the time.

So how do you go about helping them decide?

That's the direction they're coming from, right?

So if they're modern Porsche owners who've never owned the air cooled car,

I'm going to privately try to move them into 993, 964 to start versus even a G

body with a G 50 transmission.

And I say that because it's still the closest thing to the modern cars.

It's giving you air cooled motor.

It's giving you analog feel, but it's a more comfortable car, more comfortable ride,

more and we're talking very minor things here.

In terms of appointments in these cars, because there's not a ton of

appointment difference between a G body and a nine, six, four, nine, nine, three.

But that's where I would go in my my my perfect weekend car would be

probably, you know, eight, 97, 98, 993 C2S.

I don't have a picture of one behind me.

I'm sure there's probably one back there somewhere, probably

primarily saying that just to piss off Paul.

But I'm already feeling the ire in my throat.

That's great.

I mean, I own a nine, six, four.

I love the nine, six, four.

But if I had to only have one car, only one, and that was kind of the question,

I think, and that wouldn't be my weekend car.

I think that would be it because it would kind of.

Allow for all of the the the drivability that I want.

If I want to take it to the mountains, if I want to roll with it,

but still comfort, reasonable air conditioning, better stereo system,

shifts, great handles, well, beautiful car.

That's my pick.

C2S 98, 97, excuse me, 97, 98.

Are you guys noticing that none of us are even mentioning the older cars?

Are you noticing how they aren't even possible to I think?

Well, that's a that's a G body.

I mean, I'm talking about. Yeah.

But this is got this has got the the I mean, this isn't just a G body.

This is this is basically the ethos of Porsche 911.

The next generation from truly what I think is the 73 RS.

This is what it became was the Carrera Club sport.

And I'm not talking about the fluffy 28 units that came to the US.

There were such poser packages and they said, and I owned one and I.

And and we, you know, when it was cheap and I remember distinctly,

we bought a US club sport, me and my buddy, Jason, like 2001.

It was a diamond blue metallic one out of Kentucky with 14,000 miles.

We bought it for 28,000 at the same week.

We bought an 87 just regular Carrera was like 30,000 miles for 19.

And we drove around Manhattan Beach like a bag of dicks,

trying to see the difference between the two.

And we're like and we felt like we got screwed.

Like we just paid an extra 10 grand for a car that wasn't any different.

OK, it didn't have a sun visor and it didn't have the badge on the back.

And long story short, diamond blue metallic,

the only one in the US club sports.

It's since transacted in the three four hundred thousand dollar range.

But I sold this car for a friend of mine.

It's an 88 89 club sport Euro car.

You know, the most of the ones were white with that graphic on the side.

The US cars had this graphic on the fender.

My client, his car was ordered graphic delete, but he ended up putting this on.

So it's a silver 89 club sport.

Check out the interior.

Oh, I think that thing's awesome.

Great.

That's the studio of plaid like a good idea to check for us.

Oh, man. Seats.

They rated these cars at, I want to say, two hundred and forty horsepower.

Such sandbagging.

I mean, these cars, I'll bet you, dynoed it over to sixty to the wheels.

They felt like it felt so much like a nine six four RS,

a nine and six GT three, a seventy three RS, where just the steering is so light.

You could just grab the wheels.

These photos, by the way, were by my friend, Naveed,

who did them for speed hunters years ago.

The engine looks kind of normal, but I've been on a back road drive

with Naveed driving this car and he's a good driver.

I mean, you can't you cannot keep up.

That thing is so fast and fun.

And as a weekend car, I would say the only thing I would do, which is sort of,

you know, sacrilegious, is I would probably add an AC compressor right there

and put AC in it, which you could get back in the day.

And to me, it's easy enough to do transit miles, a blast on the back road.

OK, you're going to give up some sound deadening and it's going to be noisy.

That's what noise canceling headset is for.

But going back to the original question, Tim,

I asked my clients as Dave does all the time, like, OK, so you want nine twelve.

Why do you want a nine twelve?

Well, I'm going to do this and this and I'm like,

I go, but like you have four kids and you said you never get asked him,

like, how have you been up?

Angeles Crest, you've been in Malibu canyons.

Well, no, no, I don't really do that.

I go, you're going to be bored.

Like this car is going to be horrible in LA, you know, and he probably should have.

And I tell my clients, like, you know, if I were going to if at the time,

like if I had 100 grand, now it's probably 120,

I'd go buy a nine nine six turbo or a good nine nine six and I love an SC.

Well, but let's run, let's run.

Let's run it back to the original question.

And Casey, I did see that you.

So the real your question, which I thought was really insightful,

surprisingly, so actually, Paul, was that the fact that you're where you live

in the country really does matter what type of car you have as

especially as you're one sports car.

So if you're living in, I mean, even in North Carolina, and you go to a

cars and coffee, it's not like Southern California, where every freaking

cars, a European car, most of them are nine elevens.

And if you're in, you know, a different part of the world where you drive

a Porsche, you're not really going to be, you're going to be a little bit

on the outside of the, you know, social gatherings.

If you even get, you know, care about all of that.

You know, so you're going to get a Corvette, you're going to get a

Mustang, you're going to get a muscle car.

So really that's the regional preferences aspect of the question.

Because it really, because around that there's going to be mechanics.

There's going to be people to supply parts, whereas like where we have

our little house in North Carolina, I got to ship my Porsches all the

freaking way to Dave, and that's not close.

I mean, he's up here, where, where the hell down here?

And that's a long sojourn and a truck.

And you, you hit something really interesting.

I was talking, exchanging emails with Keith Martin, you know, he's the

editor of sports car market and he's up in Portland and he's getting to the

point where he wants to get another Porsche, something that fits his

lifestyle more.

He's, he's a diehard alpha guy.

In fact, sports car market used to be called alpha car, you know, alpha

market and the newsletter became sports car market.

I said, what about the alphas?

His main reason to get a Porsche is because the Porsche community in the

Portland area is the by far the most active community, more than any other.

And he just wants to be part of a car community.

So he doesn't love the brand.

He just loves the people and he's like, okay, I'm going to buy another

Porsche so I can join that community.

I would say, I would say, honestly, guys, that's the most important question,

especially if you're buying something older and weird, who the hell is going

to work on it when it breaks?

If you don't know how to, and I flipped through, I assure you guys do this too.

If you go through, you know, bring a trailer, you say, oh man, that's really

cool.

Wouldn't, and then you're like, okay, who's going to work on it?

What's my use case for that?

When am I going to drive that?

You know, and that's the reason people go back, always go back to 911s.

Honestly, I mean, I literally, if I want to get a BMW fixed or Mercedes fixed,

it doesn't matter, new or old, I have one BMW guy, he'll do all of it,

one Mercedes guy.

When they people ask me about Porsche mechanics, it's like, okay, is it early

air-cooled?

I have a mechanic for that.

I have a mechanic for later air-cooled.

Oh, you want water-cooled?

I have a mechanic for water-cooled.

Oh, you want to fix the convertible top?

I have a separate guy just for your freaking convertible top.

It's crazy.

Casey, what are you thinking?

So I hear what all of you are saying and something that I always had issues

with in sales and still currently with my clients that I work with now is

people get a preconceived notion of what they want.

And no matter the guidance and counseling that you provide,

95% of the time, they're going to buy what they want.

And Dave, I'm sure that you, I mean, I know that you said that you would

recommend this.

You know, there are cars that I would recommend to people.

I'd say that the suspension is too crashy, those sorts of things.

But at the end of the day, people have these notions in their mind of,

this is archetypal to me.

This is something that I want.

I would like to move forward with this.

I would like you to help me justify my decision.

So unfortunately, you do see cars transact a lot of times because

people have this idea in their head.

And then when really, when the rubber meets the road,

especially if it's an internet purchase,

they're not necessarily liking reality to what is in their head.

Dave, what do you think?

Oh, I totally agree with that.

I mean, I just, what I'm finding lately is I'm trying to expand people to not be

so narrow in those choices as well when they're looking at air-cooled cars.

I get calls all the time for people that are saying,

oh, I want to, I've got to have an 87 to 89 with a G50 transmission in it.

And while sure that transmission is a little smoother to shift,

its engagement is a little more positive and it's not quite as finicky as a 915,

I think a well-setup 915 is a great transmission.

So why would you limit yourself to three model years of cars

that are going to probably start to push $90,000 for a nice car over that?

Certainly in Paul's market for sure.

Probably Casey yours too, when you can buy a 3, 2, 84 to 86

and throw the hell out of that car and probably save $20,000 when you're buying it.

Just as a customer, we sold one too that way.

Yeah, I remember when I was buying a car from Magnus, the only car I bought from him

and I was driving it, it was like a 901.

Isn't that right, Paul?

Yeah, 67.

I was like, I thought these transmissions were supposed to suck.

And he just said, bushings.

It's all about the bushings.

That's what he said.

And he's right.

Bushings, mate.

Bushings.

Yes, that's all he said.

Those were his all.

I think it was terrorized by my driving, but that's a different.

All right, pop quiz.

You guys ready?

Or you have something?

Real pop quiz or?

No, no, it's in the notes.

I'm going to take Casey's suggestions and really start giving you guys some zingers

next week.

Paul's favorite option on the new Corvette C8.

Go.

The option that says no.

Yeah, I pass.

All right.

So here it is.

Ready?

Pop quiz, 997 GT3RS four liter or a Singer classic.

Nope.

One answer.

Dave goes first.

Singer.

I mean, it's a giant price difference, but Singer.

No, they're the same.

Basically, if you look what they're selling for, they're both around a million bucks.

Ridiculous.

Plus or minus.

But you're spending that much money.

Yeah.

Rounding error.

Okay.

Casey.

What kind of question is this?

White four liter, white wheels, black and red interior.

He's like, Mike drop.

There you go.

Paul.

I agree with Casey, except for the white.

I hate the white.

I hate the black.

It would have to be any other color, but white and black.

But after especially watching that intercooler video comparing the RS4.0, I think driving it

to and from Angeles Crest, I will hate the car.

But once I'm on Angeles Crest, I will forgive all the sins.

And this is regarding the fact that I think long term of all the current modern day water

cool, this is going to be the one to have, even though I think the GT2 RS of this variant

is the one to really have.

I've got a Casey question here in a second, but I actually agree with the three of you guys.

And not that I don't appreciate Dave's answer, but the reality of it was,

I'd absolutely choose that same car.

So I had a 38 RS and it was a 2010, obviously should have kept it.

So what is the difference in driving between a 38 RS and the four liter RS?

Because we sold our 38, this is a long time ago, for 165 grand and now they're 2x that.

Is it really, but the spread between a really nice 38 and a four liter is massive.

Is it just production numbers?

Once they made 600, the other, okay.

Casey, do you have any sort of technical information?

Is it Rose joined something or others or what is it?

So the everything that's on the four liter is pinnacle.

It is everything that they learned from the racing program.

It's the insane stroker crankshaft from the flying lizard RSR time period.

It is all the carbon fiber.

I mean, so much carbon fiber on that car compared to what was on your car.

It is peak everything.

I would tell you if you drive both back to back, it might feel like a

10% 7% difference in the way that they drive.

But the fact that it is all of the evolution of what I believe is the ultimate iteration

of water cooled 911 culminated in one thing.

I mean, you're paying for pulling into cars and coffee and having the YouTuber influencers just

cream themselves over seeing a 4.0.

That's what you're paying for.

Just every street, the ultimate street cred.

More than an ST more than 911 R.

When I go out in the four liter, people that know things about Porsche just stand there

and stare at me drive by.

It is uncomfortable and it's insane that people lose their minds when they see that car.

So Casey, do you stop right there and then just light them up for them?

Of course, Donuts.

Trust me.

You know me, man.

I get out of there as quickly and as calmly as possible so people don't look at me or run into me.

Exactly.

All right.

Segment four.

New 911 Turbo with options is easily in the 300,000s.

A one to two year old, no miles, four warranty.

A Ferrari 296 GTB is in the same price range.

The Porsche looks like a base 992.

It's true.

And the Ferrari looks well spectacular.

Discuss.

So come on.

Paul, you get to go first so you can get your rant over with.

So if you have to choose between.

I mean, I mean, really, the big thing is the 296 is beautiful.

I won't.

I won't argue with that.

That is beautiful.

That is utilitarian.

It's Porsche.

I've never driven.

I mean, the newest Ferrari I've ever driven is I think a 2010 California and then and then 430s.

So I don't even know what one of those drives.

I went for one ride in a Pista, an industrial section where the mechanic just wanted to scare

the shit out of me.

Check.

He did.

And it was frightening.

It was the most frightening thing to go 130 miles an hour in a narrow industrial

with parked cars.

My answer, Tim, it's going to cheat.

You're not going to like it.

I will go spend 200,000 on a slightly used Turbo S and take the other 100 grand

and go buy something I really want to drive.

Yeah, changing the rules with my question.

So that's fine.

But your first answer, just like when you were in elementary school,

was always the right answer.

And that was the Ferrari.

That's what I heard you say.

That's what you heard.

Kramer's now a Ferrari guy.

All right, Dave, you're up next.

I'm going to I have to take the Porsche.

I mean, there's no question.

And I would agree that I like the 296 as a car.

I mean, it's a lovely, it's a beautiful car.

I think it's a very emotional car, that particular car.

But I am drawn more to the Porsche brand as a whole.

And the thing about the Porsche brand that I don't like or excuse me,

that I do like versus the Ferrari brand is every car is a different animal.

There's not like there's no commonality in terms of the line of this car,

while the Porsche has kind of maintained this,

would agree or disagree in terms of the fact that they've got,

you know, the 911 and the Boxter and the Cayman and so on.

Every time I can't even keep up with the Ferrari stuff, Tim.

I need lessons from you.

You were kind of commenting earlier on the how you keep up with the Porsche stuff.

But Jesus, I am my head spins when I talk about the different Ferraris.

Well, number, I get it.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

And they just came out with another one the other day, the Testerosa there.

But they're, I mean, that's the future of Porsche.

They're going to follow.

There's way, they can produce way more cars than Ferrari.

And Ferrari is shown in the path to huge margins.

So that's the direction they're going to go.

All right, Casey, one car, the 296 or the new 911 Turbo specifically for ease of serviceability

and ease of the people that work at the dealership to support the car.

I would choose the 911 Turbo.

I can't have that.

I mean, that's a really good rationalization, honestly.

There's there's competition in local Porsche dealerships.

There's traditionally five Porsche dealerships to one Ferrari dealership.

When I take pistas and speciales and A12 competitiones and F12 TDFs to Ferrari dealerships,

they don't even get looked at.

They don't even get offered assistance.

I mean, I mean, you, I mean, how much, what's an F12 TDF cost him?

Over a million dollars.

Well, those cars are gorgeous.

I think they're like, what's an A12 comp cost?

One of my friends just sold one for 1.7 and he sold it too soon because those cars are

now selling for over 2 million.

Okay. So if I, when I take those cars to Ferrari dealerships, I don't even get looked at.

I take a Macan to a Porsche dealership and people help me out.

Well, but you guys are factoring in other things, which are relevant for sure.

But as far as product to product, I don't know how you could actually argue that the

Ferrari isn't a, and I'll say the words just so we can get some nice, you know, heated debate,

vastly superior to the 911 Turbo.

When you're just looking product to product, all your guys' points are obviously relevant.

But, you know, if you drive one of the, you know, one of you guys said passion or one of

you guys said emotion.

Have you ever really drilled down?

And I know Casey and I talked about this on a couple of shows ago.

How important is that emotional tie-in and that emotional feel you get from the car?

How like, I mean, is that the most important thing you guys talked last week about how a car

looks? Paul, what are you thinking?

I mean, I, yes, I have been drawn to cars strictly because of emotion.

But like, like it's like chewing, it's like, it's like sugary chewing gum.

It quickly loses flavor.

Ultimately, what really captivates me is how it drives because I just love to drive.

And I'm going to put thousands of miles a year on something.

Yeah.

But that doesn't make any sense because you won't have an emotional tie to something

unless it drives exceptionally well.

It has to go just beyond the wrapper, right?

Right. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

And all your guys, this most coveted automotive journalist said the 296 is one of the most,

is peak Ferrari, peak Mercedes.

I remember distinctly when that came out and Johnny Lieberman drove it up to Good Vibes

Breakfast Club and he was just gushing about it.

He was talking about how many, you know, kills he had on the mountain and Porsches he passed

and how freaking awesome it is and who cares.

This is a six cylinder.

What's the engine on this one again?

No, no, no, that's going to be pop quiz for next week.

I'm not giving you the answers.

No, it's, it is.

But anyway, it's basically a three liter.

It's less than a three liter six cylinder twin turbo charge with an electric motor.

And I'm, and I would like, yeah, and I remember he, you know, he says everyone's going to say

blast me the high.

I mean, that picture I sent you, what was it?

The F eight over the weekend at the cars and coffee?

Was it black?

And then I was talking to the guy and he's a Porsche guy.

He's like, oh, I'm not going to buy a hybrid.

And I remember Johnny saying everyone's going to shit on the fact that it's a hybrid,

but like you drive it, it's amazing.

Now that being said, I know the turbo s is probably amazing.

I'll bet you when you drove him back to back, the turbo s is very German clinical

competent and great and not emotional as the furry.

I just haven't experienced it except for once in the right seat.

So I've been thinking a lot about this emotions question because I think a lot of the products

nowadays are becoming somewhat ubiquitous and the same, especially in the German side of things,

how they feel Lamborghini included because it's basically an Audi Volkswagen product.

And then I heard Neil on Musk last week talk about how the new software updates on the new

Teslas are going to make the cars feel alive and make it make them feel more emotional.

And I think that's honestly with the direction that a lot of these cars are going,

because on the Ferrari, for example, it was who said this?

Matt Farah was talking about it.

He just drove a 296 GTB or a GTS and I remember what it was.

And he was talking about essentially the F1 transmission, this is the PDK transmission.

When you shift to PDK, I never thought about this, but he's obviously right,

is it shifts, like if you shift it 2500 RPMs, it shifts gears right there.

Whereas with the Ferrari, the Ferrari is going to take into consideration essentially how much

throttle you're putting in. I know the PDK does it as well, but the Ferrari's taken the engineering

for just simplest of things of how a car shifts to the next level. So it does feel a little bit

more in tune with your, I don't know, almost the mood you're in and based on how harsh you're driving

in the car. And you look at all these different things they're putting in with side slip control

and all this other stuff. I'm not saying I love this stuff. I like analog cars more,

but it is fascinating to see where the warfront is on styling and on the software that's going

to engineer those things, which is kind of scary because who's going to hell is going to work on

these damn things in 10 years? They're just throughout the part. I mean, they're already

doing it now. They're just throughout the module and they put in a new module and they've been

doing that with Porsche for the last decade. That's right. I'd like to drive a 296 for sure.

I'm thinking about actually shipping my car out to Kramer to basically have them just keep it

for like a day for me or I'll ship it up to Matt in LA for next year's car week. So if we decide

to go to a car Lala Palooza, then you will more than welcome to drive it or it's in Puerto Rico.

If you ship the car to me and I'm going to move it around, do I have to get,

do I need to order red shoes now just to make sure I have shoes to get in the car?

You need to have Dave make you a braided belt with the extra braided leather from Tim's car.

Tim, Dave, I need you to dye it in a Rosa Corso or some Rosa something. Everything's Rosa.

Bring it, Tim. We're ready.

And the record Kramer is wearing a Lamborghini hat. So he has some, you know, he's confused about his

automotive choices. I hope everyone's recognizing this, whereas I get sitting here with a PCA hat.

So whatever. All right, so let's, I want to know whether or not Paul would get, would you own

that Ferrari? Would you roll up to a cars and coffee and get out of that Ferrari? Money aside,

I would have to have my hat so low. Yeah, I'd come in like this with a mask on.

And I would get out and I would run for it. Oh, you know what? Just thinking about driving a Ferrari

into a cars and coffee with my Porsche friends. No, no, that's, that's the reason why I could,

there's certain cars for certain people, right? I mean, it's like people and dogs, right? There,

you know, you got a certain kind of dog if you're a certain kind of person and you're a certain kind

of car if you're a certain kind of person like this, I would not see myself personally a because

I'd be look like a fool trying to get out of some of these cars. But B, it's, you know, it just isn't

my thing, my personality, getting that's a gorgeous car, but all of these angular rocket ships just

aren't me. I like, I like the Porsche look better. Just me. Good point, Dave. Dave, you're teeing us

up for the next point. Can one of you guys put the picture of this Rizvani retro up? Can you

guys pull that picture off? Oh, Kramer, nice job. All right, so let's discuss this. Who wants to

describe what that is? I guess, I guess I'll describe it. And actually, it sounds like Casey

has a little more experience with the company from what I understand is they're a company that's

here based in Orange Count is an Orange County. And I think they take your not just Porsche but

Mercedes or other vehicles, and they give it a facelift. I don't know how much mechanical stuff

they do. But the idea here is they're taking a 992, they said they want to do a query, was it a

query T they like to do? But they could do a turbo s. And they're going to reskin it to look

something really cool, like a 935ish thing or something. And Casey, I think you said that

they also did some other stuff. Well, let's let's just reframe it so we can drill down in case the

listeners aren't don't know about this. So it's what you said, it's basically take a new Porsche

or a used one that's a new bodied one, you send it to them, and they'll rebody the whole thing,

carbon fiber panels, for the most part, except for like a software tune for engine performance,

it's all mechanically the same. And I think this is personally from a business perspective,

that's fascinating to me, because you're taking a new car with a warranty, and you're giving it a

really crazy exotic million dollar look. And that whole rebody is less than 200 grand. That's

kind of interesting, because you get a really badass unique car, you buy a base, you know,

tea, you send it to these guys, you're into that thing for less than 400 grand, still a

shit ton of money. But that seems to me like an interesting alternative.

And when you compare that against that 997 back day, we were talking about a couple episodes,

the rule one, which was 400 grand, and a lot of decisions that we did not like,

you know, and you still have just a 997 that looks sort of like an awkward old car.

Now you're talking about you have a modern car, like you said, I mean, I look at that,

I think a Carrera T would be kind of tough, just because it would be sort of like a big dog with

no bite, you know, because it looks so radical, even though I love the Carrera T.

Tune it.

Yeah, I guess you could tune it and get like 500 horsepower. But anyway, I think the look,

I mean, when I saw the back end look like that, that's awesome.

And the only thing I would do to the front end, I mean, how cool would that be,

is if these had pop up headlights, you know, like 935 ish, have it slant nose.

That would be bitching.

Yeah, those were, if I remember correctly, he put 964 lights on it. And I agree,

the lights look a little bit lost in the in the in the girth of the car. And the pop ups would

be badass. But to this guys, you know, to the owner of this company's credit, he's trying to

use stuff that's off the shelf so it can make these at a cheap, I mean, low relatively cheap

price. That to me, looking at that, that doesn't look like a high $400,000 car. That looks like

something like $2 million. It's gonna make they're gonna make 50 of them supposedly. And I guess,

like you said, you just send them whichever modern 992 variant you want to send them. And they'll

I don't think you're gonna get out of there for 200 grand, though. I mean, you look start looking

at their options list, and you check a box and it's $50,000. I mean, there there's definitely

some stuff you can add. Maybe you can if you want the strippy version of the retro RR1.

Well, if you just want the body, look, I mean, I'm the biggest question I have, which I know Casey

will touch on is you look at that. And are these panels like carbon fiber? Are they what is the

fancy word for fiberglass, you know, RFP reinforced fiber composite composite. Yeah, they try to make

him like that's fucking fiberglass. I know what it is. How how do these panels fit? How are they

going to wear is this? That would be my only only concern because these pictures almost seem like

renderings, you know, these don't I but still good AI. And I'm like, So, so, Casey, you said you've

experienced one of their this company's products in a six by six or something. So I have a client

that has one of their six by sixes, which is a it looks like something that would be in the zombie

apocalypse that was built off of a Jeep, one of the Jeep trucks platforms. And that started

was very good. It was a very early production vehicle. And I will put it this way, it does not

excite me. And I cannot understand how a company can do what is behind Paul for $200,000. A quality

paint job on a car like that would cost Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you pull all the

glass out of a 911 and just paint it, you're probably looking at $30,000 just to start. So if

you put on bodywork, if you change fenders, if you change lights, if you're doing all of that

stuff, I don't know how that can be done for $200,000. And if they are going to do it for

$200,000, I would, I would want to see how they do it before I put my money down.

So the owner is white car and put white panels on it that they prepainted or something like that.

I mean, having to repaint the entire car, that'd be a lot for sure. I think you I think you'd have

to because as you're aware, panel painting is extremely difficult and it, you can get it to

about 99%, but unless you blend it, it ain't going to happen. Well, that's what the stripes are for,

they just hide the problems. So you look at that stripe over the middle, boom, you don't notice

that. It's a good looking car though, that is it. Trust me, I think it's awesome. I hope it works.

I mean, to me, it looks like when Porsche launched that 935 thing at Rensport a bunch of years ago

with the martini livery, it looks rad in that picture behind Paul. I hope it works. I hope they're

wish them all the success. I just don't know how it's possible in this day and age.

Well, I mean, they're in Southern California. There's a hell of a lot of, you know, composite

guys that make carbon fiber. This isn't the other things. And they maybe have really close

working relationships, all of them have their cost structures down. But the point, and I agree

with you, it doesn't make any sense financially. I don't see how they're doing it. But if they

are doing it, and it's $200,000, and you're able to make a car that looks really special,

I think that's going to open the doors for a lot more interesting cars that are going to

start coming our way, which I'm excited about if they can make money off of it, obviously,

and stay in business. Go ahead, Jim. I'm looking at their options list right now, right? If you go

down through their options list, and there's five options under exterior, right? Ain't the

sample exterior color $12,500. Turbofan wheel covers carbon fiber $4,500. Custom livery graphics,

$4,500. Custom wheel covers $3,500. Black exhaust tips $800. So the car that Paul's

got behind him there, that car isn't a car plus 200 grand. That car is, I bet you that car's

certainly half of nine bucks. I mean, the options that you just rattled off, if you

basically didn't get a PTS color, and you didn't get the amazing stickers,

and you just did the wheels, that was according to what you just read, $10,000. So if it's $195,000

plus $10,000, and you start with a used $992,000, even if you start with an S, we're still cheaper

by a lot than something that doesn't even look as cool. But who knows? I mean-

I agree with that. I agree. Yeah.

But it's interesting. I mean, Dave, it might be a good business model for you, too, if they

got to know. Who knows? I mean, I'll bet you-

I like the air-cooled stuff better. I'm staying in the air-cooled stuff. It's where I am. Smart.

I mean, we'll see this first here. I mean, being in the backyard, I can see it showing up to

one of our bougie cars in coffee, or up on the mountain for good vibes. I mean,

the up on the mountain has turned into sort of this sort of like pre-press launch of vehicles,

we're noticing. I mean, every day you, every week you go up there, there's always these

rap cars going up there. So they're doing testing anyway. So I mean, I hope it works out. I think

it's really cool looking. Thank you, Dave, for bailing me out. I see what you're doing. All

right, we got another pop quiz. And the pop quiz is a car that just came on, bring a trailer yesterday.

And I think Dave is going to stick this up for me. So it is-

I'm going to try. So go ahead.

Oh, there you go. Paul beat you to it. Damn, Kramer, you're so organized. I really love it.

All right. So if you guys aren't, if you're listening only, what this is,

is, and I'm going to hold my opinion off for last, it is a 67, a real 911 67 S,

which in itself is a shit ton of value. And then it was redone by Emory, Rod Emory,

and it was done in a, in to basically be a 911 R. And I'm not an expert in 911 R's. I know they

didn't make very many. I think I'm in my life. I've only seen two. And the litany of stuff that

Rod put into this thing had to have been, if you wanted to replace something like this nowadays,

an astronomical amount of money. So what do you guys think of this? And what do you think the

clothes price on this will be? And it is still for sale right now and bring a trailer. Casey,

why don't you go first? I think it's beautiful. I mean, I think it's great. I read the comments.

It looks like Marco, Paul's buddy rebuilt the engine a couple of years ago. I mean,

I think it's super rad. It's probably going to go for a heck of a lot of money, but it checks a

lot of boxes. I mean, they even put a 914 6 steering wheel on it with the right horn pad. I

mean, they did really cool stuff that had really great attention to detail. I mean, I hope it goes

for all the money and then some, I like to celebrate good coach builders and the Emory's are great

people. So is that steering wheel different from a, that looks identical to the steering wheel,

I think that was in our 67 s. I didn't realize possibly, I mean, sorry, being a seller of cars,

do you put the steering wheel fricking straight before you take your photo? I mean,

I'm sorry. And then take your seatbelts and like lay them out nice or hide them.

Oh, that's the Kramer. That's the NASCAR edition. Oh, yeah. It's a, you know what? It's set to go

left. Perfect. So it is the vibe of your 67 with the hockey puck, but Casey's right,

it's a 380 millimeter, came out of a 914 6, went in the 73. So it's kind of a blend.

And the tastes are great. I mean, here's the funny thing is, I think the Emory part of it

will double the value if it was just a good builder, Marco involved.

What do you think it's going to sell for? I think it's going to sell for 300.

Okay. I was guessing four. So an Emory 356 in your mind is worth more than an Emory 911R.

Okay. Yeah. Cause that's not, that's not their bread and butter. This is, and in fact,

there was another 911 that they had done, they sold it didn't quite, they tried to sell for a

while, didn't do as well. Wasn't that an older one though? This isn't anywhere near the build

quality though of their current 356 stuff. This is much more of a rough and ready canyon car for

a kind of car. What people don't understand, there was some weird confusion about this,

and I was, I'm trying to figure it out. It was done by Gary Emory, I believe, and it was right

about that time. The older one, the older one, the dad, the dad who just recently passed away.

And he was just, he wasn't, it was just a different time. I would say the worst part about this ad

is the, the, the pros of the seller just makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

And then I look at stuff like this. Okay. I don't know if you could zoom in. The,

the, the vintage looking dash plaques are dated before the car was built or like the month it was

built or the month after. Oh yeah. I, I hate that shit. Like go just buy a 60 set, like one of them

is correct. One of them is 68. The car was built in June of 67. Okay. They did two event, three

events in June and July of 67. Oh, the, the, the one up here is 65. Hmm. Okay. So that stuff,

I don't know. It just, it just bugs me. I was trying to figure out where the motor was from. The

motor is built to a two eight. And Tim, you know, you can't take that to a two liter aluminum case

to get to a two eight seems like a bit of a stretch. I didn't, it is a beautiful motor. And I'm

sure Marco did a great job. His dad, his dad built that, right? I think Tony, no, no, no. He,

there was a bunch of confusion because the seller, I don't think did their homework.

Marco finally chimed in and said, no, no, no guys, you got it wrong. In 2018 and 19,

the dyno results were wrong because he said, we got the car and it had a hole in something.

And they basically had to rebuild the motor in 18 or 19. So it was recently rebuilt by Marco.

What struck me about this, the seller, too much pros. I don't think he really read the details.

And by the way, Casey, I don't know if you watched the driving video. I have pet peeves about driving

video. The entire time his left hand is on top. His right hand is always on the shift knob. And

his left foot is always on the clutch. And it's like, dude, learn to drive the car. He was driving

it. You know what, Dave? I think he was an ass car driver. Okay. So Dave, what do you think?

What do you, what's your take on this? Well, I mean, I think I've seen one of these earlier

cars. A client of mine has actually a very early Emory 912 that he built, very similar in the look.

So stripped down car, you know, the build quality is kind of, you know, thrown together.

What do you see? What do you see? I mean, you're the maker of cars like this, Dave. This is your

business. What are you seeing that basically points to makes you think that the build quality

isn't the same as a new three, a new Emory product? Well, I mean, just if you just look,

if you drill in really more interior pictures than anything else, Tim, the, you can just see,

I mean, the car is kind of put together like one would be put together.

Imperious if you're just repairing it versus rebuilding that car or making or turning that

that motor is beautiful. The fiberglass dash is typical weight reduction stuff, lose it. It's,

you know, slammed in there with a couple of screws on the end of it to hold it in place.

But what Casey just said, isn't that, isn't that how it would have been done back in 1967,

because it was just a race car? Absolutely would be, but that's kind of the difference in terms of

the cost difference to build it versus now where you're having to get into much finer detail and

make these fit and finish pieces so much better. I get your point. And also don't forget, you're

buying, like people just look at the title, you know, Coop Emory Outlaw is in the title.

Imagine what most people who see Emory Outlaw, what they envision and quality

in their mind. And I think if they're coming in the last minute and bidding on this and just going,

Oh, this is an Emory Outlaw build. There's a video that, you know, Rod Emery is walking around it.

They're just going to jump to the conclusion that, Oh, this is like their 356. And it's not a bad car.

It just built at a different time. And it's okay, as much as okay, like Tim, it's built the way the

factory would have done in a period. I'm sorry, most buyers who are spending multiple hundred

thousand dollars a car, they don't give a shit about that. They want to look perfect. They're

coming from their 992 GT3. And they're like, why doesn't this thing look, why aren't the body gaps?

And by the way, my personal pet peeve, the whole front end is fiberglass. And it's like, okay,

do a fiberglass bumper. Okay, maybe a fiberglass hood. And by the way, it's still weighed over

2100 pounds. And, you know, the fiberglass front fenders, I absolutely hate because

good luck on that thing, having a nice fit and finish, you know, it's always going to be a little

cattywomps. But weren't they originally someone's going to know more than me? I know the hoods

were fiberglass, what were the front fenders glass to? The front fenders were glass, the doors were

glass, they got, but they got the car down to like under 1900 pounds. And it was like 1750.

So they went like, and by the way, the hood was so thin on the factory that

it was concaving under under speed. So they had to put balls of strips to just to get a structure.

Yeah, that a lot of that same tech is what they put in 914 6 GTs.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so do you guys love it though? I mean, do you love this car for the right money?

Obviously, I do. I bet it rips. I think it rips. We just sold a 911 R tribute like that that white

one we had. And the only problem with it is when you drive it, it is like, we're going racing now.

It is race, race, race. There's no like, Hey, I'm going to go down PCH. I mean, you put your,

your wife in the car. And all you're going to see out of the peripheral vision is this.

So Paul, Paul, I'm going to give you a little suggestion from your old friend who's been married

for 34 years and who has had a lot of sports cars. So, okay, she's listening, but I'm still going to

take the little suggestion. The key to having marital tranquility when going online long drives

and cars like this is about a quarter to a half of a Xanax. So you dose your passenger, sweet.

That's the key. And then you're like, Oh, honey, here's your noise canceling headset and just take

this. It's a vitamin. Don't worry about it. No, Dr prescribed. Obviously, I'm not saying to buy it

from some, you know, illegal source. But that's the key. Personally, I love this car. I really do

love it. I love it for all the reasons that you guys are stating. I love the fact that it's rough

and ready. I love the fact that you could drive this car. And I'm sure the Marco motor is

unbelievably cool. You turn the key it starts, you can go out and beat the crap out of it.

And it's not some garage queen. And I love that car, honestly. What do you think it'll go for?

I bet you it doesn't hit 200 grand.

Well, I it'll get over that just on the if it if it was not Emory, it was just like, you know,

some guy up in Oregon did the bodies, Marco did this. I think you're right. I think it'll get

into the high 100s. I think the Emory part, especially with Gary just passing away is going

to double the effect. I'm asking what I asked myself what I would pay for it. And if you go

into the meat, if you start going to that mid 200s, I'm gonna, you know, call up Casey and have him

find me a 964 RS. I mean, that's where my brain goes. Alright, so you guys have time for another

segment? Yeah, sure. Okay, I think we should do auctions. If that's cool with you. Well,

I mean, we can kind of tie segment five into auctions too, if you guys want to. But let's

just stick with segment five. What do you guys think the old timers versus young timers or

segment five, or the next segment, which is auctioned, you guys choose. I choose auctions.

Dave. Yeah, I'll go auctions because I just have better photos and stuff. All right, perfect.

Let's go on. All right. So what do you guys want? No, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.

All right. So let me get down. What point was okay, this week in auctions, what are your

top two follows and why? And Casey gets to go first. So I picked a couple of interesting options.

I had three car number one is on cars and bids. It is a 37,500 mile 2009 11

Carrera. The right wheels factory arrow kit finished in mirage metallic, which is super rare.

Last time I checked it, it was in the mid 30s. I think if you rocked up anywhere in this car,

like at a cars and coffee, it's really going to stop people. And I think that it'll probably

maybe get somewhere close to the 50s. If I'm not mistaken, it finishes this afternoon.

I think it's a really interesting and pretty rare car, especially in that color. Most of them are,

you know, white, black, silver, yellow, lot of yellow cars in that era. And those those go for

money. But I think you're going to find the guy that wants a weird color and really knock it out

of the park. So Casey, you think you think that car is going to be in the what price range?

I think it's going to be somewhere in the upper mid to upper 40s is probably where it will close.

Cool. All right. And your next one? I actually did three. I apologize. Number two is a is a

6000 mile Boxster 550, which was made in 2004. This is one of my favorite boxers ever produced.

This car is on P car market. It is currently at $25,000 and has, I think, 6000 miles on it.

Really great example. I would prefer that it have the brown interior versus I think this one's got

black or natural gray. But really big fan of these. And my last one, which Paul and I discussed.

And by the way, that car right now has a day left and it's at $27,000.

That does not make freaking sense to me. That is such a sweet freaking car for less than 30 grand.

It is an awesome car. And I hope it brings good money. Well, hope it doesn't bring good money

so I can add one to the stable one day. But I love those four boxers. Last car is a car that

finished, I think, yesterday. It's a one family owned 50 some odd thousand mile

Amazon green over gray full leather interior 964. And the other car, thank you, Paul,

the other car that I was comparing this to was the 200,000 mile fully repainted car that closed

last week that sold for 79. This one closed for $89,000 with 53,000 miles on it because

it was a Malibu. It got totaled or salvaged. It has a salvage title through California because

it was adjacent to the Malibu fires. And I thought I thought at 89 grand, you buy this car,

you send it to Dave, you have Dave. Well, I don't know how bad the car smells for starters. I know

that you cannot get cigarette smoke out of a car no matter how you try or just covers up with

chemicals. But I don't know how bad this one is. But I think if you sent this car to Dave,

had him replace everything that's porous on the car, I think for, what do you think, Dave,

$25,000, $30,000 for soup to nuts kind of like you did for my client.

I think you've got to do that. It's an amazing, yeah.

Don't forget, anything plastic is porous. You literally got to do every single piece of interior

in that car. But that's what he did on my client's car. And it was awesome when it

done and what it was done, it smelled like leather. And I think with a guy like Dave,

you could figure this car out. And you could have a really awesome, cool color 964 for,

I put some cup buns on it because that's what I do. But you could have a really great car for,

let's say $120,000. Casey and I are joking about it because

yeah, it's going to have a salvage title, which kind of sucks. And Casey and I are joking about

it because you read the pros from the seller and he's like, yeah, we just did a standard detail

and the smoke's gone. And I'm like, not a chance. Bullshit. We had this one 40th anniversary 996.

The guy liked to smoke cigars occasionally a one owner car. As that car is coming on the flatbed

to my shop. It's not even off the flatbed. It just goes by me. And I'm like, oh, shit,

this guy didn't tell me he smoked in his car. We did every kind of bomb, like automotive

tenting the car. And we could not get rid of it. And the guy sold it to was a smoker. And I'm like,

hey, do I have the I have the Koheba edition for you. And he had it for six months and he's a smoker.

And he couldn't do it. And he had to get rid of it. And he tried everything that we already tried.

So I don't know. And but what people don't realize is fire damage, like Malibu fire damage smoke,

that is different than someone smoking cigarettes or cigars. It's a chemical warfare smoke,

basically. I don't think it's sort of like flood damage. I don't think you're going to ever get

that out. I want to point this out, guys, just because you guys don't follow the rules. And

this podcast runs two hours and all you guys get UTIs because we didn't take a break. It's your own

damn fault. Okay. So just for the record, I'm not the one causing it to go two hours. Dave.

I've gone to the bathroom twice while I was sitting here.

Paul has to go next. Paul goes next. Okay. So anyway, I have my I have two only two cars, Tim.

And my theme is replacement engines. And if there's two modern Porsches that actually have more

value from a replacement engine, it's 996 non non Metzger engine cars. So non turbo or GT three.

And the other one is 991.1 GT threes that have this weird wrap. And I wish someone would go

in a depth about why these two cars, they closed last week. The this one is a 2003 996 manual coupe

six speed 55,000 miles, seal gray, it's got a rebuilt new 3.8 liter cool hot rod motor by

Ellen and engineering. It's maybe a couple thousand miles on the engine, it's sold.

What do you guys think this sold for 55,000 mile 2003 just regular 996 not even a wide body

manual with a fresh 3.8 liter engine, 20s, using money with the car if the car had the stock motor

in it with an IMS bearing, I think that's a 38 to $40,000 car all day long.

62,000 before fees. Whoa. Yeah, whoa. Now, and the reason I bring it up because our friend that

we actually know right here has a, and he's got a picture of it, but he's got a 996 cab

currently for sale on bring a trailer with the jack rabie hot rod 3.8 is a 3.8 liter motor,

right? Right. KC. Yeah. So, and I don't know what's at like $20,000 right now, it's got a few days

left. So even though it's a cab and it's an old man arena gray, arena red, sorry, it is,

I think it could be a potential bargain. So anyway, the other car I want to talk about and one day we

got to get into depth because I think right now the 991.1 GT3s are a crazy value. And the reason

why is they had a little problem with the engine and Porsche after getting screwed on the IMS bearing

and getting a class action lawsuit, they got ahead of this one and they replaced the engines.

Now that they're for sale, so this one is a 991.1, it's a 14. It was victim of, you know, the early

ones that got the engines replaced, like they all got their engines replaced 16,000 miles,

guards red, ceramic brakes, a pretty high MSRP for the time. It recently got at the factory or from

the factory a three point, a brand new 3.8 liter, what they call the G motor, you know, the 14s were

E's, 15s were Fs, 16s were G, everyone wants the G motor, they don't even know what they're talking

about. And so it got this brand new motor from Porsche, just put in no miles on it, and it sold

for $145,000. That's a bargain for sure. It's a bargain. Because if this was a 991.2 winged PDK car,

which isn't a whole lot different from a driving experience, this is probably a $175,000 car,

$180,000 car. Actually, I thought this one even might have gone a little higher than I expected,

but I would say $20,000. That's the G motor. If this just had the regular E motor replaced under

warranty in period or F motor, I think this car would have been 125. And you can find 91.1 GT3s

for in the 115 to 125 range all day long. Let's do a drill down on that next podcast that your

particular suggested topic. Go ahead, Dave, sorry. No, no, I was going to say put 25,000 miles on it

or whatever. And now the thing is down at 115 or something like that. I mean, these cars are out

there, and they are absolute bargains. Obviously, the PDK holds them back. But I think there's,

Casey could probably dig into this a bit more, but there's definitely differences between the

different iterations of PDK between these years. And but I don't think that really changes the

driving experience all that much on this car. I just think that that is a hell of a bargain. It

really is a big GT car to have. Casey's 550 and even that frankly has cab and that car would be

pretty much guilt free, you know, 911 motoring, because you're probably not going to lose money

on it. They might actually increase in value. They're probably not going to be that expensive

to fix. So that's kind of like a no brainer all together. Are you done, Paul? You have any,

you're putting up a motor. Oh, that was the old that that's that's that's the motor replacement

that went in. And literally, like, I mean, the guy had like four shots of the motor.

And I think that was like pheromones to 991.1 G. It's a G six. Oh, my God, it's a I mean,

the comments about the G six and like, you would have thought they just got the Willy

Wonka golden ticket, I was just going to throw up bro, there is a golden ticket on that damn motor.

So you might there is literally how much does that motor cost? Do you have any idea?

Casey might know more, but I'm guessing $30,000. More than that.

More than that. $45,000, $50,000, $60,000. Yeah. I mean, who knows how much now?

Paul, can you pull up my pictures while Dave presents next?

Okay. Yep. Thank you. I appreciate it. Dave, what do you got?

I am obviously, I have got some of the finest automotive. Yes. X examples ever. Oh, boy. Look

what we have here. This is a complete copy of the wagon queen family truckster from the

national lampoon vacation movies. And it is a beautiful example. This happens to be an 89

round Vic wagon. And the copy of this thing against the wagon queen family truckster is

perfect. It's dead on. And I'm just thinking to myself, how much is this car going to sell for?

Like who's really going to want one of these things? That is the perfect car for Paul to haul

his butt in while he's recovering for his fricking rallies. He can lay in the back,

that big ass area. I'm not talking about your big ass area. I'm talking about the big ass area of

the car. Okay. That's it. That's his. I was thinking of me in the in my electric scooter being

being, I mean, imagine this. I'm in my electric scooter being dragged behind it. You know,

you know, like the movie. Yeah. Poor guy. I tried to keep up for the first mile or two.

This picture. Just look at the difference. I mean, that's from the movie and that's from and

that's the car. I just think it's, it's, it's amazing. You know what's funny though? It's

whoever built that newer version of it. Imagine how much time they spent looking at the pictures

of the original one that goes all that wasted time of one's life trying to essentially replicate that

beautiful future Kramer vehicle. It's got the, it's got the fold up rear seats. That's one of those.

I mean, we talked about them. I don't think we'll get to it, but one of those questions that you

had, it was a pop up question, a quiz about what are the features on old cars that we wish would

come back, right? We'll do that one. I couldn't find, I dug around trying to find something. And I

think this was probably one of the only things I could think of that was kind of cool that you

wish you'd find on current cars now, and you really don't, is that rear seat, either rear

facing or side facing rear seat in their way back in the, in what was the precursor to minivans,

obviously, but this thing was a beast. What do you got? And you probably looked it up,

but what do you think it sold for? Tim, if you didn't look it up, what did that car sell for?

Dave, I'm a little embarrassed to say that actually I didn't start that one and bring

a trailer and didn't keep track of it, so I have no use for you.

Well, it's fair enough, of course, but what do you think it sold for?

I mean, okay, so what time of day did it end? I don't know. No, because there's going to be an

alcohol, that is not something that somebody sobered or buys, it just isn't. So if that ended

after beer o'clock, then I would say, what, 20 grand? Oh, this car was $62,500 is what it sold for.

That's what caught my eye on it, okay? Now I'm going to go to the absolute complete

opposite end of the automotive spectrum, but a rare machine for sure. You're setting this up,

you can tell by a, there you go. There we go, boys and girls. All about it. This is automotive

excellence right here, a 1990, and this opens up the question, Tim, about what are the young

timers going to buy next? What are the cars that they want? Not that. Nope. I mean, unless, of

course, they're in some communist block country and they're waxing poetic, oh, I said it, I have to

get that in on every show, about their olden days while they're essentially communists.

This car picked up in value. This car sold for $10,000 back in 1990, $10,000, and this

fine automobile, this one of only 500 made, apparently, right? They really didn't make that.

They made a convertible first. This was not a car, an aftermarket. They made 500 of these things,

and those wheels. I mean, look at that color. It is fantastic. I mean, just to roll up in

a car is in coffee. It's a 90. 90, all right. And you said it was $10,000 in a Ferrari. I'll

tell you that. I would rather roll up in that car than a Ferrari, cars and coffee. I would have much

more interest in conversations if I rolled up in that. And you said it was $10,000 new. It would

have had to sell today for $25,000 just to be MSRP. Tell me that. It actually sold for 15.

15 was the number on the car. It was a no-reserve auction. I think that was no-reserve. Maybe,

yeah, it was no-reserve. Come on, that's a great car. It's one car I have. Throw it in the back of

the garage and enjoy the hell out of it. Yeah, it might not run after the first time out. And I

wish I could find pictures of this. This tells you how socially it was such a shipbox in period,

and it may remain the shipbox. Five years after this car was discontinued, my dad and I go to the

LA Auto Show. And there was a full art installation of all the different things they could do with

a Ugo. They made one into a giant version of a Zippo lighter. They made one. The best one was

into a Catholic confessional where you sat on one side. They had stained glass and you can have.

And then the best one was, imagine if they coated it with the fiberglass material of an

outhouse and they turned a Ugo into an outhouse, a working outhouse, which I think was probably the

best use. All right. So before we lose all of our viewers or listeners, let's go off to what I was

watching in auctions. Paul, hopefully you pulled them up, though I think I appreciate Dave's,

hopefully, comic relief. And he wasn't being serious, but nonetheless. I wasn't being serious.

Just making sure. All right, good. You guys got them both up. Team work. These are the two cars

that I was watching because honestly, these are where my interest is really leaning into

real race cars, especially the old Porsche race cars. And I mean, you guys will know more about

these. One of these is a V8. I forget which one. I think the white one. So what are we looking at?

We're looking at a 1968 Porsche 910 and a 904 Carrera GTS. There you go.

To correct you, the 910 is a flat six. And then the 904 is the four cam motor.

So this is where I'm finding myself being very interested in learning more about these cars.

Obviously, Cam Ingram has got the market cornered, I think, domestically anyway, on

restoring these things. And so when I look at these, I know they sold for monster money,

but the reality of it is, is when I'm thinking, if I were thinking about spending monster money on

some big car, and it was between like, say, for example, a Carrera GT or one of those cars,

because I think both of those sold for between a million, $2 million. I don't know which way I

would go. The 910 didn't sell to him. The 910 didn't, it bid to a million.

A billion. The 904 sold for 2.3, almost 2.4.

Okay. So either one of those cars would be a fun, I don't think you, I think the 904,

you could actually put plates on. I'm not sure about the other car, but the more you could

put plates on both of them. Okay. Well, I'm just saying right there, if you're in that kind of,

you know, if you're in that league and you're looking to spend money on a play car,

and you have Porsche shops that are nearby, oh, that's right, you had one of those in your shop.

It was a real one too, wasn't it, Dave? Yep. That's actually chassis 001.

Did you drive it? No, I did not drive it. No, I'm not, that wasn't something I was allowed to do,

obviously. Okay. So, I mean, just as I progress in my automotive obsession,

I'm just starting to be fascinated by these, you know, very, very much back catalog cars,

because they get down to the essence of what I love about motoring, which is the, you know,

obviously all the things a lot of you guys like too, the raw mechanical essence of a car.

And I love the size of these. And so, you know, as strictly as not even second or third car,

but more like your 10th car, I think these are kind of hard to beat. Now, what's the future

value on these things? I've got no idea. Who are the future buyers on these things? We might

talk about it next week when we go back to one of our previous topics. But what are you guys

thinking as far as those vehicles? I mean, there's nothing, I mean, 904 and 906, I honestly believe

is the pinnacle of beautiful Porsche fiberglass cars. I don't think it gets, I don't think it

gets better than that personally. I've got a model of both a 904 and a 906 behind me here in my office.

The 910 is, I mean, it's a real prototype car. I don't necessarily believe those were,

that one's got tag on it. So I guess it was street legal somewhere. I thought the 906

was the end of that. But I mean, the 904s are stunning. I mean, it's a bootsy design.

There's nothing that looked like it before or after. The only thing that you could say kind

of looks like it is like the OG Boxster Spider in 2011 when they did the treatment of the top,

how it went back and mounted. But it's stunning. I unfortunately have never sat in one or had the

opportunity to drive one, but I hope I do someday. It looks similar to our Ferrari 246 Dino, but all

in, I mean, that car. So yeah, I mean, that's where I'm watching those two just because it's

fascinating to see if those are all of a sudden going to go into the museum only mode or then

our enthusiasts are going to still end up with them. Paul, I think we see a lot of these cars

and how they're going to have legs to go to the newer generation, the younger generation

and going back and what's happening is events. What can you do with these cars? So I know

Cam Ingram is doing the, you know, the pike, the pieck. And he does four cam jam too.

He does the four cam jam. I know in Europe they do, you know, prototype type rallies where people

bring these special cars over. So I think the buyers of these are going to be really,

really wealthy people that need a new drug and they want to do a Primo event that's just of

people like them. And when you look at the Instagram feed that Road Scholars puts out on

these, you know, these type of events that celebrate these cars, you know, look who they're

rubbing, you know, they're there with Jeff Swart and Patrick Long and, you know, Deeter from

Andile. And you said they're going like, yeah, if I had a spare one, two, three million dollars,

yeah, let's go buy one of those so I could do that twice a year. Well, so one of those cars

or a singer, choose. Oh, 904. I mean, first of all,

girth is my problem. I mean, I don't know if I could get in that thing. You'd fit in 906, Paul,

from what I understand. Basically, I would figure out a way to fit in any one of these

fiberglass era Porsches, because I agree, I think, I mean, it looks like a Dino that is,

that is, this is just the prettiest Porsche they've ever built. I mean, 550 Spider damn close second.

Way more upside in that car. Yeah. And by the way, I wish I had the picture of it.

When we were in Germany and we were in Salzburg, Hans Peter Porsche,

Hans Peter Porsche driving in that little rally was driving a red 904. And it looked badass.

Yeah. I mean, that's so, you know, I think you guys are all vibing with what I'm saying.

When I look at something like that, I don't know what it's like to drive. I've never driven one

before. But that means so much more to me that resonates so much more to me than worrying about

what stitching you've gotten or what PTS shade of, you know, frickin silver you're getting all this

other bullshit. That to me seems to me like where I think the height of car nerddom is going to go

going forward is these back, these old, old ass cars, because people are going to want to get

back to the essence of it. Yeah, I think you're right. It might just be my wishful thinking.

It probably is. Any thoughts, Dave? Is it around the bend? Oh, no, I'm looking at this. I'm just

looking at the pictures of this thing on the auction and that four cam motor is just gorgeous.

But think about trying to get a four cam worked on 10 years from now, right? Oh, my God, who is

because it's almost impossible. And Tim, you would know this since you just bought one for

the spider you're doing. But I mean, that's that's going to be a tough cut to get that engine worked

on if you like, I was expecting I was expecting you to be able to work on it. No, it's not a four

cam. Not a four cam. I mean, I think I actually I remember I remember when Tony was alive.

He sent Marco to a four cam builder here in Southern California on like this sabbatical for

like the whole summer to work and learn four cams. I don't know how much Marco is doing that.

And there's one here in Costa Mesa, Bill Doyle. You know, he was a big one. He unfortunately passed

away early, but he had sold the business and was out training with my friend Steve Schmidt and

Honest Engines here at Southern California, Costa Mesa. So they're I mean, there's so few of these

cars that you just need two or three builders in the world, which I think there always will be.

And you take the motor out, you create it up and you send it off. It doesn't. How hard is it to

I mean, look, your motor's coming from UK, Tim, for your car. And it's not even actually. And it's

in this. Yeah, it's in the States. Did I tell you guys about that? I got hit with it. I got hit

with a 25% tariff on that thing. Yeah. Did you were you able to time it and get rid of that?

No, no, I didn't realize there'd be a tariff on those old things. I don't even want to say

out loud what it costs, but a lot. Yeah. And any of that. All right, guys, I think it was a fun show.

Hopefully all of you have listened and enjoyed what we have to offer you as we yammer about cars

for a couple of hours today. If you've got any show topics or ideas, any comments,

anything like that, we would love your feedback. It really doesn't mean a lot to us.

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which I know speaking for all of you guys, it really, it warms our hearts because we're really

making it, I think giving people a new sense of, you know, the automotive podcasts that I've listened

to versus this one, we're drilling down. We're really focusing on details. And I think we're

helping everyone to sort of, you know, find a new home in the podcast realm. So on behalf of

all of us have a fantastic day and we will talk with you on the podcast next week. Thanks, guys.

Thanks. Thank you.

Porsche 911 Turbo S vs Ferrari 296 GTB: Which Supercar Wins? | Porsche Realignment, Youngtimers vs Oldtimers & Auction Shockers

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