Porsche Supercar Smackdown, Is 'Real" Car Journalism Dead & Trends That Need Go (Farting Exhausts, Homage Liverys, etc)

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horsepower meets conversation.

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Welcome back, this is Tim Harris with Full Throttle Talk.

We have an absolutely packed show for all of you today.

I'm not even going to tell you what the topics are.

I'm going to keep you in suspense because we have so many fantastic topics.

You guys don't know this, but we work on what our topics are going to be between each

show.

And let me tell you, we've picked out some really spectacular things to share with

you today.

So without any further delay, I'm going to invite or want to welcome my friend,

Casey Dave, and of course, Paul to the show.

So guys, let's roll right in.

What did you do in cars this week?

What's the most special, fantastic, amazing thing that you did in cars this week?

And we'll start with Paul.

Oh, OK.

Wow.

Sorry, I was just organizing.

Organizing my screen really quick.

Yeah, I lost my page.

It shows all.

Can you start with Casey?

Yes, we'll start with Casey.

So Paul talked me into going to more cars and coffee events.

So the previous to doing that, I had a wonderful drive with my 964 on Friday.

It was really the first time in just over a year of ownership that I absolutely fell

in love with the car.

Right road, right weather, no music.

I put one of those cup bypass things on it.

So where it was driving, it was just echoing off and it just had the nice

pinging.

964 sound was fantastic.

I put about 150 miles on it, got it up through my client's house on Saturday morning

and got in his 911 ST to go to the Porsche Club of America headquarters open house.

And I will tell you that I did not want to get out of my 964.

Whoa, I don't.

I don't the 911 ST.

I'll put it this way.

When I got in the car, it had 31 miles on it.

When I got out of the car, it had 45 miles on it.

And I'm a real big guy for mechanical sympathy when it comes to break in,

especially on a car that's not mine.

So it was very interesting.

All of the automotive journalists complained about the flywheel.

To me, it honestly felt more tame than like a four liter or GT3RS 997 flywheel.

It made some interesting mechanical kind of kind of interesting noises,

but it didn't have the traditional clatter that a lightweight flywheel does.

So I'd love to report more on that.

But honestly, since I didn't take it over 52, 5,500 RPMs,

I really can't comment on it other than the fact that once I got on my 964

and got into that thing, it felt huge.

Well, you mean are you referring to size at this point or just back to what

you were just talking about as far as the all the all the above?

It just you 964s have really tight cabins.

You're close to the windows.

You're really close to those thin A pillars as you are in old 911s,

which is one of my favorite things.

And I kind of did not want to get out of my 911.

Well, every night I want to get out of it.

Every old 964 and every old 911 owner right now loves you.

And I have the feeling PCA will make you not only the Kumbaya for 997s,

but now 964s as well.

So, Dave, what did you do?

What was the most spectacular thing that happened in cars this week with you?

Like Casey, I did another car event as well on the weekend.

First or second Saturday every week is a place.

Studecart Saturday, it's called the Portra dealer puts it on.

And this time it was combined with another event.

So there was a ton of people, great turnout of cars

and just all kinds of fantastic stuff always shows up to this event.

I used it as an opportunity to shake down this car that I have behind me here.

So I drove this down.

This is the 88 slant nose target that I've been talking about.

And we're finally kind of at a place where it's done and ready to go.

This particular car has that interesting

storied history that I told you about.

It was a total loss at some point.

And then over the last few years,

we have been restoring it back to its former glory.

And now it's a really nice car drove really well.

Yeah, that was that was my weekend.

It was great. You know, Dave, it turned out well.

You know, Dave, one of and then all the guys,

you know, one of the quick, easy, if you're at a car's in coffee,

you want to cheat and just see if a slant nose is maybe a real slant nose.

You know, the quick, easy way to do it where you're not like a douche

and you're, you know, like fondling someone's car.

Do you know what to check first?

Dave probably knows. I know you.

What is it? What is it?

Good. That's there.

You know, the wood vents, the wood vents, those little side strikes that I knew that

that was a little insulting. I saw that look.

Yeah, I just, yeah, I'm surprised.

I'm surprised.

But then again, you know what's interesting?

I'm not surprised because if you're a Ferrari guy

and you're going to cross over into the Porsche land,

you're going to pick something as flashy as a slant nose.

So it's on brand.

Yeah. Back in the 80s, when I was, you know, like 15 and I was rolling around

Miami and my, you know, pastel, you know, summer clothes and, you know,

deal in Coke, you know, chasing down on crime.

Hell yeah, man. That's how I rolled.

That's where I met Julie.

We were on the scene down in Miami.

I can like, I don't even want to picture it.

Anyway, what I did was I went to cars and coffee.

But when you think of the word cars and coffee, where I went,

this is where it all started.

Tim probably knows the area.

Most people don't know the history of cars and coffee.

It started actually kind of hunting to beach with Donut derelicts,

which was a hot rod show. It still goes on.

But in 99, 2000, a few of us started breaking off

and going to a place in Newport Beach to hang out.

And all of a sudden, the European cars started flooding in.

It got so big that Freeman Thomas and John Kleinerd, who both worked for Ford,

said, let's move it and Irvine company owns this land.

They wanted us out and they wanted to move it.

So now during COVID, it came back and Irvine company kicked us out again,

even though one of my clients is the executive member of Irvine company

and he's he fought for it and they still couldn't get it to happen.

But now quietly it shows up.

And I say quietly, even though that everyone's going to know about now,

but it's not every weekend.

And people ask me when and where.

And I don't even know.

It's literally like this, you know, you know, knock on the door,

you know, swordfish.

It's like the speakeasy of car, you know, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Paul, but look, I have to point something out.

You are, you know, a died in a little Porsche guy

and you love taking digs at me because, you know, I have Ferraris,

but I am seeing that in that picture, the picture that you put up

that you admired the most were Ferraris.

That's very telling son.

And the reason why it's one of my friends who a big collector.

But, you know, in case you might have seen this, I'm sure Dave has.

There's collectors like the Jerry Seinfeld collectors.

I don't understand, you know, where you just drill so deep in one brand.

This guy buys all kinds of stuff.

And you literally, if you look at that blue, it's a blue.

Three thirty GTS.

It's actually a two seventy five GTS.

It was actually the show car, the original number one that was for

launching that particular model, the Paris show car.

I've known this owner for almost 30 years.

Back in like ninety nine, two thousand, I would run across him.

He uses his daily driver.

He go to Home Depot with it.

I use I would run across him on the street.

Just doing errands.

I'd be in a seventy three RS tribute and him and I, as soon as we saw each other,

it was game on, let's race.

The this will kill you, Tim.

Do you see the California spider in the middle?

Yep.

That is a original two fifty GT short wheelbase that in sixty nine

was converted to a California spider by Ferrari.

Wrap your head around that.

A two fifty GT short wheelbase.

Oh, I know what you're saying.

Really?

That's crazy.

So you take so take a five million dollar car, make it the factory pretend

like it's a ten million dollar car and end up with something that's

probably a million dollars. Right.

Oh, and let me let me do a shout out and video editor and when you're

doing this, make sure you put up a picture of a two fifty short

wheelbase so they can see the difference because it's a completely

different car, but people would love to see it, I'm sure.

And then also the Daytona was a factory conversion post post repairs.

You know, so there was stuff like, you know, this old Rolls Royce.

You've got Triumph TR three DB five Tour de France Ferrari.

Where was it, you know, from a Gunther works to a beautiful

green Berlina boxer that my friend just had restored to the Safari car.

But then you got replica spider and actually, Tim,

you would also another trivia question.

How do you quickly tell a replica spider?

You mean 56?

Yeah, sorry, replica three fifty six without like banging on the

fenders to see if it's aluminum.

Why are you going to stop asking these dumb questions?

Don't you think I know the thickness of the glass, the thickness?

Exactly. You don't have to feel you.

Just look at the fender wells and if it's really thick.

But Paul, just to the record,

you I had an intermechanica that you sold for me.

And remember, you have to admit that intermechanica was every bit

as fun and cool to drive as the real one.

It was better because yours had air conditioning.

Yeah, that's true.

And and actually the girl I was dating at the time we sold that car,

we took a nice drive down to Del Mar.

And and I always tell my friends, if I'm going to get a replica

three fifty six, I would get like an intermechanica roadster convertible

D because it just besides more usable, it doesn't even look weird.

But this this was my favorite car of the show.

So get this, Umberto, who owns it.

He is one of the top Italian mechanics.

Like if you have a complicated Italian car,

this is his daily driver.

He bought new unmodified Mark four Toyota Supra

that's got like 60,000 miles.

It has survived two of his teenage sons from ever touching it.

And, you know, he's just he's the sweetest man.

In fact, I'm trying to think if one of the pictures.

Oh, that's next to the Ferrari Daytona between that

and the and the spider, the guy with the white hair

next to the peach colored shirt. That's that's Umberto.

Anyway, um, that's what I did.

Yeah, that was good.

And you're right, that location for cars and coffee is insane.

And the reason they run it off, you forget the omnipresent detail

is that above that shopping mall, which you guys can't see

is a massive, really, really beautiful subdivision.

And those people don't want to be bothered at the crack of dawn on Sunday.

That's the reason.

And and actually what and you're right, Tim,

and what kind of compounds that is when this show got really big

and you could see it from PCH, all the lamb,

lambor bros and and, you know, just chargers.

They ruined it. And then they would, you know, it's a part of PCH

where there's cars can go by at over 100 miles an hour

and they're just screaming by Dave and Casey.

If you guys have what happens to all of it, have you guys ever been there?

Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's so beautiful.

And it, you know, I will croak a real quick story.

I'll tell in Casey might be able to bail me out on this one

because I don't remember this guy's name.

He's a car dealer that used to specialize in really, really crazy

stuff and Ferraris in particular.

And I think it was a 133, like one of the original Ferrari race cars

when he left Alfa Romeo and made his own, started making his own cars.

And Julie and I lived down Laguna Beach and we left in our 996 GT3

and I see this way in the back on PCH.

I see these strange shape and I figured he's going to cars and coffee too.

So I slowed down and he caught up with me and I don't remember this guy's name.

I did buy a Ferrari sign from him in any event.

So he was driving this car up from San Diego with his son.

And he had found this car and it was the one where you guys remember

this in the news like five, 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years,

probably 20 years ago, where someone found a check.

He saw a chassis for sale and then he said, shit, I know what that chassis is for.

And then he kind of put everything together.

It was that car on any event.

That's the kind of stuff you'd see back in the day. Not, not Shaughnessy, is it?

No, it wasn't Shaughnessy.

He's in Costa Mesa.

Yeah, he's actually he's coast now.

But yeah, yeah, one event.

So that was the kind of stuff you used to see back in the day

at when you're going to that cars and coffee, the coolest stuff

that you could ever possibly imagine.

And if you didn't love Southern California before, you loved it then.

And that's a Volvo P1800.

And it was and it was one of the I mean, this was a cars and coffee

where I keep telling people quality, not quantity.

There was maybe 35, 40 cars.

But like you could spend an hour at each car.

I mean, it just went on and on and on.

So hey, Dave, I got a question for you.

So you are being honored and at the upcoming Looft

because McGuire's has chosen our car and your company

to have a display car there.

So congratulations on that.

Well, thank you. Yeah, we're looking forward to Looft.

Yeah, we're going to have a number of cars there.

Hopefully you and I will talk offline.

We've got some clearance issues on getting into the room

they want to get into. So we've got to figure that out.

But clearance for what?

What? So if having never been to one, Tim, you're going to find

that the way this is all set up is it's going to be a bunch of old

buildings and you would think, oh, my gosh, they can't get cars.

And it won't be like this line after line after line of cars.

There'll be these this whole curated thing and you're walking around

from building to building and you'll turn a corner and there'll be like one car

like up against a wall or some beams or it'll be posed

kind of like this car is or something.

And they use these old buildings and old rooms.

And some of them will have weird entries and gates and wooden doors

and things like that.

And I guess McGuire's is getting set up inside of one of these little rooms.

And there's a gate to get in the room that's only XYZ wide.

So we're we're trying to kind of look work through some logistics on the car.

But we I'm not I'm not understanding why I would need to participate

in that conversation because at the end of the day, it fits or it doesn't.

So I'll leave it up to you.

It's very true. It's just like Casey, like we're just going to determine

whether or not we need to put the car on its side to show.

Tilted a little bit like a chair going through a door.

Yeah, talk to do on one of those thunderboats.

Talk to talk to Casey.

He used to work at the dealership.

You know, he knows how to figure out how to get it in there.

Dave, how many old 9-elevens do you have on your property?

Like a hundred. I mean, you know how to do it.

There's probably 50 here right now.

That's incredible.

I probably had me in their booth at one of the Louft events

and being on a sponsor like you are with McGuire's

I think is actually better than just getting into the show

because sponsors are paying a lot of money to be there.

They've got a usually a very cool location.

So it's it's I when I'm trying to get into a Louft event,

I'm going to reach out to the sponsors first, what I do

and see if I could get my car in that way

just because it ends up being a better display.

I have a better idea.

So anybody that's sponsoring an upcoming Louft event

and they want to have the, you know, all-star team

from Full Fiddle Talk be featured at one of your events

to get people to come see whatever it is that you're slapping.

We're open. Message us this in an Instagram.

So there you go.

See, I'm so excited to be referred to as schlepping.

No, well, that's true.

No appearance fees yet.

Well, we're on our way to appearance fees.

So I don't think I don't think we're ever getting appearance fees.

Don't you look at the camera to see what we look like?

Come on, come on.

You're looking pretty handsome today. I got to solve.

Maybe Casey.

He still has his youthfulness about it.

But, bro, appearance fees are off the table for us.

The best we can help.

We're the Balden Burnt crew.

All right.

We have so many good topics.

Let's do it. Well, I didn't tell about you.

Just so I'm not allowed to talk about what I did in cars.

You're so rude. What did you do, Tim?

What did you do? You live in an island.

What could you have done?

Driven circles.

All right. OK.

F you to all of you, you're right.

I didn't do shit. I just worked all week.

All right. Let's go to the next topic.

That's the truth, though.

All right. Automotive news.

What caught your eye?

Dave, you go first.

Well, I mean, this is obviously a lot always going on.

And you guys have some other stuff to talk about.

I just thought it was interesting.

Yet another one of the major manufacturers

have announced that they're completely pulling back

on their EV plans.

Stellantis specifically.

Yeah. Woo-hoo, yippee.

But they want to promote more.

I think they're trying to get the Hemi back in the dodges now.

So they took all that stuff out.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not,

given something else we'll talk about later,

because some of those are my least favorite cars

on the road today.

But Stellantis kind of moving away.

I guess they were planning, within a couple of years,

Alfa Romeo was going to be all EV.

I think they're pulling away from that.

They're still going down the EV path.

But they're going to push back into some of the V8,

some of the high-dollar cars.

It's helping make them money.

And the challengers, chargers, that kind of stuff.

Let me ask you guys a question.

Let me ask you guys a question about that.

Do you guys think it's more profitable for a manufacturer

to make EVs than it is ice-powered cars?

Do you think, which is more expensive to make,

battery-powered cars or ice-powered cars?

I think right now it's probably battery,

if not a very close tie.

I think in the long run, when the economy's a scale,

I think it's going to be ice cars will be far more expensive

and difficult, more parts.

But right now it's probably more.

But the cost of all those batteries and things,

like the, I mean, I don't think there's a lot of margin

in these EVs for these guys.

And without the subsidies,

I think the EV market continues to just go to shit.

Do you think the EV market's going to shit

because there's no subsidies?

Or do you think the EV market's going to shit

because EVs are shit?

I don't think the EV market's going to go to shit.

I think it's going to pause.

You live in California, Paul.

You live in California.

It's not even California.

I'm not even thinking of California.

It's thinking of the world, Europe.

Europe is just marching.

And I think that's going to make it,

between Europe and China,

that's where the EV market is going to continue to grow.

Even though right now there's a pause

and everyone's pulling back a bit,

I just think unless something comes up remarkably better

in terms of like alternative fuel,

like I'm a big fan of alternative fuel also, Tim.

I want that to happen.

I would love for that.

But like there's so many layers of complicated steps

from infrastructure to the politics behind it.

I just don't know how that's going to happen.

And like I mentioned in the last show,

we're at this weird point,

go back 100 years when there was all of,

there's all these unique technologies for health cars.

And it was just,

it became a fight between politics and big business

and Petro one.

And that's what, yeah.

Electric was really growing in the early 20th century.

And it did make sense to all the oil manufacturers

that were drilling and pulling out tons of oil

and they wanted internal combustion engines.

It could have easily been electric back then.

Paul, let me interrupt you.

So your premise is the reason that we are stuck

with what we have is because of some big cabal

of big business and government

dictating what people are going to have

and it's not consumer demand.

That's your premise?

Yeah, absolutely.

Dave, you have anything to say about that?

My conservative friend?

I think the problem here in the US

is the infrastructure is just too complicated to build out.

It's a much bigger place.

And to try to build out the infrastructure

required the investment in the infrastructure

is required to make EVs really mainstream acceptable.

It's just extremely expensive.

Yeah, so that's my take.

I mean, I do think that there was this whole,

I mean, different administrations pushing EV versus ICE cars

and whatnot and things that are happening,

but it's just a technology that still isn't there

because you got to have the infrastructure there.

And it's just not.

So it makes people unhappy in North America.

Now if you're in...

Yeah, go ahead.

Mr. Parkin, what are you thinking?

You know, I think that there really is a place for it

and I hate to be a contrarian in this view,

but I do believe that as a normal passenger type vehicle,

such as, you know, I hate to point out a Tesla

because I'm not a big Tesla fan,

but a Tesla Model 3 is a great car

that gets around a lot of people

and it seems to work in a lot of different areas.

So there are, I think, reasons that these cars could work.

I just don't see the real cross between people

that enjoy the engagement of driving a sports car

and then crossing that with electric mobility.

I know that a lot of German to obtain that

and trying to get that across,

but I don't think it's necessarily checking all the boxes.

And I think that's why you see a lot of pushback

within enthusiast communities.

There, I think, how many hypercars

that tried to come out full EV were complete failures?

Like Pina Freena came out with a gorgeous car, Lotus.

Did you guys remember the Lotus EV

that they announced at Quail like a few years ago?

That car was shockingly beautiful.

They sold like four of them.

So what you're saying,

you know, Jensen Button, Jensen Button got one

and like that was it.

Yeah, hypercars for electric doesn't make sense

except for what they're doing now,

which is the smart thing about, you know,

like Porsche's doing with the hybrid

is now they're becoming torque fill gaps.

They're helping with, I mean, electric turbos is awesome.

You get rid of turbo lag.

I think the hypercars are finally figuring out

that, yes, people don't want a full electric hypercar

but there is some electric technology.

I mean, most, I think most hypercars or most supercars

and most sports cars

are going to have supplemental power through batteries.

Like at least for now until something else comes up

because with all of the emission laws

and cafe standards across the world,

they gotta make more power.

They gotta make their cars better

than the previous model.

And I mean, we talked about last week

with the new Turbo S it got 11 more horsepower

but it did like 14 seconds a lap quicker

on the Nurburgring and it didn't look much different.

They made this big hoopla

but what they're really doing is paving the way

for another decade of the manufacturers

especially if you're making sports cars

just getting twisted and trying to figure out

how to make their cars more special, faster, better

when there's all these new laws

in terms of emissions and so forth.

What I'm saying about electric cars

is I don't kind of like F-150 pickup trucks.

They're ubiquitous with the United States.

They're fricking everywhere.

You go outside of the United States,

you go to Europe, they don't exist.

No one has pickup trucks.

I think the markets will be somewhat isolated.

North America is a very unique market.

I say North America, the United States is a unique market.

I don't know, I think electric cars

will be here for a long time

but they're gonna be in metropolitan areas

like Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City,

anywhere where it's impacted and it makes sense.

I mean, Waymo's now on the west side of LA are everywhere

and they're amazing and they're perfect solution

for that particular problem.

I think infrastructure outside of these metropolitan areas

from electric power make it ridiculous

to have an electric car.

And our fuel is still relatively inexpensive

compared to Europe.

So Europe is getting squeezed.

The fuel's really expensive.

They live in congested areas.

I think their infrastructure is a little better.

Why is the fuel really expensive there, Paul?

I'm guessing probably from taxes

and all the other stuff that they do.

Government manipulation,

trying to control people's behavior

to start buying EVs, that's why.

Well, no, no, no, but before electric vehicles,

20 years ago, I remember reading in car magazines

where we're paying $2 for a gallon of premium

unleaded in California

and they're paying like $4 a liter.

I mean, it's always been ridiculously expensive

in Europe for fuel.

And so, yes, politics manipulated,

but why, I don't know, you know.

Who knows why.

Different weighted tax

and create different streams of revenue

for these countries and so on.

Yeah, they might have less tax.

Paul, have you ever looked actually outside,

like you know gas in California is a lot more expensive.

Have you ever wondered why?

No, I know.

They tax it and they use it for road tax

and all this other stuff that who knows where it ends up.

Right, so if you actually do some research on this,

because I did it for another podcast we were doing

and I did it for different things

and you look to see where all the additional taxes are

that you don't even know about.

This is true with mortgage payments too,

which is kind of shocking.

You'll be absolutely blown away

by how many little taxes are hidden

and every little sort of thing.

We've just normalized and just blindly accepted

but let's bounce, let's go to.

So Paul, since you're on point here,

let's talk what you thought was mentionable

from automotive news

because your point here is really interesting.

That's why I have two choices.

We can continue on what is taxes

and government in California

because the Leno Law got stricken down.

Like I predicted, everyone thought I was a naysayer.

Aren't you a car person?

Because everyone's saying, oh, Leno Law will pass

and I said no, but I was right

because I knew exactly what would happen.

Or we can talk about, which I would say we do this

because there's the challenge to dolly

that's sold for ridiculous amount of money.

That's Ferrari or more BS politics and taxes.

You guys vote.

I'm going with Ferrari.

I think we need to say old Ferrari, not Ferrari.

Yeah, old Ferrari.

So this challenge to dolly, beautiful car,

it's a 2004 Ferrari 360 challenge to dolly

only came with the F1 flappy paddles,

which is arguably,

even though this was a better version of it,

arguably it's probably the worst,

one of the worst early dual clutch transmissions ever made.

And this Ferrari sold for a whopping 603,000.

You add the fees, $610,000 Ferrari 360 challenge to dolly,

which was, and it has 4,500 miles.

And what was interesting about this car

is it, similar comps had sold for,

what was it, 200,000 less, 300,000 less.

So this one went for a lot of money.

You sent me the Ferrari chat thing, Tim.

It just seemed, it reminded me again why I hate forums.

I mean, it just, you know, you sit there, you're like,

okay, is someone going to talk about

what was special about this or what is the market?

No, someone's going to talk about how their dog,

you know, shit in the passenger seat of their Stradale,

and they couldn't clean the, you know,

the red interior or whatever it was, I forgot.

It was just, it was just so boring.

And, you know, one of my favorite parts

about this car is, look at that door.

Isn't that door cool?

Yeah.

Challenge Stradale is the first Ferrari I ever was in.

But if you remember, we talked about this months ago

when the owner of our property

was selling his 430 Scuderia.

And, you know, it's, I think it struggled to sell

over 300 or 400, I forgot what it was, 350.

Are these more desirable than the 430 Scuderia

considering the 360s are generally worth less

than a 430?

What do you think, Casey?

He teaches plus.

Well, I think, you know, the,

I think, hmm, could you liken the attraction

to the 360 challenge cars to being more prevalent

in video games in the late 90s,

specifically Sega Dreamcast and such,

which would make it more appealing

to people of my age group,

because 430s are fine.

I don't like the transmissions and challenge Stradales.

Honestly, what Ventra just did with his

on his YouTube channel was probably

one of the coolest transformations I've seen for a 360.

But I think, I think a lot of it has to do

with what you liked when you were younger.

And I'm not sure that, you know,

the 430 Scuderia is there yet.

And I personally think the 360 is a pretty shape.

I think it's a beauty.

I think it's a far prettier looking body than the 430.

Dave, what are you thinking?

You have a dog in this fight at all?

Not really a dog per se.

I mean, I'm, my Ferrari knowledge is always limited.

I'm, I continue to try to expand here,

but we're gonna make it.

It's an attractive car, but at the same time,

again, the real newsmaker here is the value, right?

What it's so far.

Yeah, why exactly?

Thanks, Dave.

Why is it this?

I think I know.

Go ahead, Tim.

Because it's not red.

I'm about 99% sure.

I'm about to tell you guys is right.

And I will make this as short as I can.

There's a lot of people that are trying to form collections

of the special series Ferraris in order to qualify

for the new special series Ferraris.

So for example, I mentioned this to you guys

in our WhatsApp chat.

I had a, I had had two friends now that asked me

to help them, like they didn't know they're just,

they're not really car and car nerd like I am.

So they come to me for Ferrari advice and they asked me,

so I want to get the new, you know, the new F80.

How do I do it?

Kind of too late, but I gave them the answer.

You have to buy literally arguably

since the 288 GTO, you have to buy every sort of Ferrari,

you know, super car that they've ever owned

and you have to have all in your collection.

And I added it up and it's like $30 million of cars.

So even to be considered for an F80,

you have to actually have had

all the previous series special cars.

And so in my opinion, that was bought

by somebody who will never use it

as somebody who's just doing exactly what I just said.

And if I know two people,

there has to be a lot of other people globally

that are forming their collection

so that when they go to my Ferrari app

and Ferrari's thinking about offering them a special car,

they'll see that they have all these other special cars,

otherwise you just straight up do not qualify.

So what is the reason for that?

Like here, because that's not benefiting Ferrari,

meaning it's not like raising the bar.

It's important.

Loyalty, loyalty.

Raises the bar to make it super exclusive

that the only way you're going to get one is X.

Yes.

How does that helping Ferrari?

Let me answer the question

from our Ferrari's owner's perspective, right?

So when Julie and I got our Pista,

in order for us to qualify for our Pista,

we had to have one of every new

of the current generation cars

either in our garage or on order, which we did do.

I've heard I get.

Okay.

Now what's happened since then,

that was like 2017, 2018.

Now, since then, they've upped the ante even more.

So they're going to keep on up

because there's more people

that can afford these really nice, you know,

Ferraris and there's more people globally

that want to play the game.

And so they're making the standards

higher and higher and higher.

And that's what they're going to keep doing

until people cry uncle.

But I got news for you.

There's no sign that anyone's crying, uncle.

And I think part of it is just a legacy.

I mean, Enzo was always about loyalty.

And even though he's been dead

what nearly three decades,

it still prevails that there's this.

And I think it's also Italian culture thing.

It's a Ferrari culture thing

that will always prevail this loyalty to the brand.

Now, Tim, your hypothesis

of why it was purchased makes sense.

And I think that might be it,

if it is it, it's only a small part of it.

And you'll see this when hopefully we get

to the auction results today,

which I think we need to.

But I think we're seeing a shift.

I think we're seeing something in the market

because when I talked a couple of weeks ago

about my client buying that G50 Targa

for almost $200,000.

And now I am starting to see like a plague,

these pop-ups.

And I'm like, okay, there is more and more

cross brand stuff that is happening

but it's not across the board.

It is very niche.

Certain years, I think the young timer generation,

which we can argue is at 90s and newer,

is at 2000s and newer,

but I would or late 80s and newer, who knows?

But I think the young X-Gen and millennial and newer

are starting to buy some of these cars

that like Casey mentioned were,

Tim, Dave, you and I, we all had poster cars.

Posters don't exist anymore.

These people had wallpaper cars, had video game cars

and that's what's happening.

So automotive news from my perspective,

and I would really like to hear from Casey

for my second example,

but did you guys see the new Audi TT?

What did you think of it?

Dave, you first, did you see a picture of it?

It looks like something.

I have.

I mean, it kind of looked like,

I mean, you can see at least it had some tie

to the original car, you know,

shape and size-wise and whatnot.

I could see the evolution of that.

I haven't dug in.

I've only seen that kind of that one rendering

or picture that I've seen, but those are great cars.

I mean, they still are great cars, the older ones.

I'm a particular fan of the interiors

of some of those older TTs as well.

So I'm really curious to see what they do with the new ones.

I'm reading between the lines.

You really didn't like it.

You like the old ones better.

That's why I just, I mean,

some of the stuff that they keep doing right now,

again, it's just a little too,

and I'm just, I'm sort of stuck in my ways.

Like in these nice round lines behind me here.

I like the, I'm not as big a fan of the sharper lines.

I mean, the TT always had this kind of rounded look.

I thought it was a great car.

Well, it's a Freeman Thomas design, the original TT.

And I've no Freeman casually,

and Paul knows him personally.

And the Freeman Thomas stuff,

you guys think of an ugly Freeman Thomas car?

No, you cannot.

Casey, what did you think of the new TT?

So, you know, Audi bumps me out.

A lot of the things I'm going to talk about today

are Audi related and kind of why,

I think there are wonderful Audis.

Actually, I'll get to it when we get to mine,

but Paul and I both know a gentleman

that was part of the design team on that car.

And I really want them,

I want Audi to be great.

I want them to be a wonderful manufacturer

of what they used to be.

And I, that car kind of looked like

that Jaguar thing, but smaller.

Exactly.

And there's a few other,

have you guys noticed,

I think there's a few other car designs,

like prototypes that have that Jaguar weird,

I mean, it's almost like a mandolin kitchen device

on the front.

Like it's ready to like shave tomatoes

really thin or whatever.

I think there was another manufacturer

that had another design concept

and it had that same weird Jaguar blocky front end

with big vertical vents.

And I wish I could remember what it was.

And what worries me is,

are we in this like,

remember when Bangal came up with the Bangal butt

and then other manufacturers go,

oh, we should do that too.

And it's like, just because

of big manufacturers doing something.

Let me ask you a question about that though,

because you're really touching on something that was,

I find fascinating because the new Ferrari,

damn, I don't remember the numbers.

I remember the name, the new Testerosa, right?

People online, if you believe the internet,

seem to summarily hate the design.

And then there's some people that really like the design.

People I know that could hypothetically get one,

to a person, I'll love the design.

Is it up to a designer to design cars

for the people that are gonna buy their products?

Or is it up to a designer to design cars

for the masses, right?

You understand what I'm saying?

So a Ferrari comes out with a new car

called the Testerosa.

And all these talking heads on the internet

are all bashing it and saying it's ugly,

but none of them will ever be buyers

or they're not buyers.

And should Ferrari give a rat's ass

about what those people have to say?

Casey, I'm curious what you think.

So going back to what we were talking about,

I think it's almost like an Art Deco Renaissance,

but with the Ferrari thing,

you know, Tim, I'm not honestly sure

I have a real opinion.

I think I have to trust you regarding the Ferrari thing

because I don't understand it.

I understand the things that people had to do

to buy Porsches, not necessarily where I worked,

but the Ferrari thing doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand it.

And I respect you're saying

that you're not game for the question,

but I have-

But the question, I guess, Tim,

so if you don't like, I get the,

you're a loyal Ferrari person.

You're the guy that, I mean,

they could come out with a roll of toilet paper

on three wheels or four wheels

and there'd be Ferrari guys that want-

They did, it's called the Ferrari Testerosa.

It just came out.

But the car is not fundamentally attractive.

If by and large people don't like the appearance of the car.

But you're making my point.

This is when Dave, you and I always connected mentally

in what we're thinking.

I've noticed that.

Fairly, I guess.

We are.

Well, it's because Dave,

I'm not sure it's up to the masses

to decide what they're going to like.

I think the designers are actually paid tons of money

to predict what we're gonna want.

And it's kind of when it goes back to a Steve Jobs quote,

never asked your customer what they want,

tell them what they're gonna get

and then they're gonna have it.

And I think really, really, really good designers like that.

And I'll go as far as to say, I'll criticize.

We were just talking about the TT, right?

And you were making a lot of great comments about that.

And maybe the designers are right

about what we're gonna like.

And we're just too much of ignoramuses

to have any dial-in or emotional, you know,

we're just, that's not our jam,

but six months, 12 months from now,

we'll all love it.

Who knows?

There are certain cars like that for sure.

Like that you see originally and you go,

oh, God, I really don't like that.

But then over time, it sort of grows on you, right?

I mean-

And Corvettes are the exact opposite.

Yeah, well, you know, the BMWs

from the mid 2000s and so on,

a lot of that stuff people did not like initially.

And to some extent, it's grown.

In other cases, it hasn't.

I think BMW is a perfect example

where if you followed their design ethos,

I mean, they walked themselves right out of mainstream

with some of the wacky shit they were doing

with the front grills and all that stuff

that people absolutely hate and won't buy those cars.

I think the seven series BMW

used to be one of the most beautiful cars on the road.

And it is completely hosed at this point.

It's just an also-ran sedan right now.

So, but Casey-

Well, the original Audi TT was a big swing, right?

They called it like that Bauhaus design.

You know, they kept harkening back to that.

It had a new interior, those sorts of things.

Maybe Audi's taking a big swing at what they believe the next,

like I said, kind of Art Deco, Great Gatsby

looking kind of car could be.

And maybe that's the connection that they're trying to make

by looking back in history

and trying to make lightning strike twice.

Did you guys know that paint manufacturers

for automobile paint manufacturers get together

and they decide basically what colors we're going to like

before we tell them what colors we like?

So, we're all basically dummies, in essence.

We're following around.

You especially, Paul, I mean, when I said dummy,

I looked right at you.

Yeah, we are lemmings.

And you know, it's the same way in,

and by the way, it's tied into the clothing industry.

Anything design related,

they, automotive manufacturing so hard

because it's so expensive and it takes so long.

I mean, think about the designs

that we're looking at now

or what they're thinking about now

and even stuff we're not seeing

is they have to plan for production in like a decade.

And they have to guess in a decade what the trends will be.

So, yes, Tim, you're right, you gotta push it that way.

And going back to you, Dave,

I was listening to one of my friends

who's automotive journalist

and he was talking kind of behind the scenes

about an interview with BMW.

And this is, and he's like, what the fuck?

Like, we love BMW.

You guys are making it so hard for us to love you.

And they just said, look, that's not who our customers,

you are not our customers.

You're not buying the newest BMW.

You're buying the 10 year old BMW, the 20 year old BMW.

That's lovely.

We appreciate the heritage,

but we don't give a shit, basically.

What we care about is today's buyer.

And today's buyers, they're buying it.

Did you guys hear, Paul, did you know?

They designed that ass grill for Chinese buyers.

Did you guys hear that?

You read that?

Yep, yep, yep, absolutely.

And that's, so going back to what you said, Tim,

absolutely, they're not building it for the masses.

They're in one, they have one goal, sell cars,

sell as many cars as they can produce.

And they'll design, and by the way,

the design on the outside is mattering less

than the UI on the inside in the end of the game

for those buyers.

Oh, definitely.

That's a great question right there.

There's a whole rabbit hole we can go down

because I want to know why people pick certain cars.

Like, what is the reason that,

what's the first reason you look at a car and go,

I want that car?

I mean, there's something I think we talked about,

Eric, we're gonna talk about, I can't remember,

but how do you decide what you're gonna buy

in terms of what's the first thing

you fall in love with, Tim,

when you're looking to buy the hypercar exotic

or whatever, isn't it the appearance, isn't it it?

Mr. Parkin actually, and I were vibing on this last show

and when he was talking about passion

and something that Ferrari just grabbed him

and it was that, that was a big part of it.

But truthfully, and I put this in the notes,

it depends, obviously, like Paul also died in the wall

with the particular things he's interested in

because that's what he grew up with.

All of his friends like the same things.

His environment's all like that.

So he's very loyal to his friends and everyone loves Paul.

I mean, you know, that is what it is.

And so for him to feel like he's developing,

and I'm just projecting here,

but for him to develop any sincere interest

in anything outside of his little wheelhouse

probably makes him feel uncomfortable,

like he's being disloyal.

But you roll up and no, I just sovereign.

Well, but there's a part of that.

Like a new model of Porsche.

Let's just talk about weather, SUV, whatever the case.

You know, you roll up on that.

You better like the way it looks

or you're just going to walk by.

I don't like this the way this looks,

the front end of it, what they've done.

It's pictures too, right?

Yeah, go ahead, Casey.

So like what I was talking about earlier

with those Teslas and generic move around cars

for just appliance cars, you know?

They're not made for people like us.

The brand new Cayenne is not made for people like us.

I mean, and we just have to wrap our head around it

that it's great that and the reason why the Cayenne

came out in the first place

is so that Paul could get more 996 GT3s

or they could develop the 996 GT3 RS

so that they could, you know,

they had the opportunity to take the LMP 2000 to them all.

But no, they didn't.

They brought out the Cayenne

and then eventually they put that drivetrain in a Carrera GT.

I mean, that's what they have to do.

They have to make money in order to make interest

in things like Dave's GT3 RS that's inbound.

That's just how it is.

For sure, not inbound yet.

We think we're a big deal.

And the end of the day,

we're just a tiny little microcosm

and the majority of these auto manufacturers clients,

they're shopping for cars on consumer reports.

They're shopping cars for the badge.

They're not shopping the cars

because the silhouette is striking.

They just don't care, sadly.

Man, I guess maybe I'm just brainwashed or whatever,

but the car better look good to me.

It better, I'd better speak to me.

It doesn't matter if it's an SUV or a truck

or whatever, if it looks like shit, I'm not buying it.

Yeah, you're just like the rest of us.

But would you buy a car that didn't look good

but drove amazing?

Probably.

I would.

I've had some ugly-ass cars.

It's the same.

It's a new impulse.

Ariel Adam.

I had an Ariel Adam.

That's not a good-looking car.

It just, it isn't.

It's barely a car.

I've had plenty of ugly cars,

but I wouldn't, it's got to speak to me that way first,

right?

When I'm in it, it's got to speak to me that I'm in it

and I'm enjoying the look and I'm enjoying the drive.

I'm enjoying all of it.

There's obviously situations where there's awesome

looking cars that drive like crap

and that's maybe more of a reason

people will still buy those cars

and live with them for a while

because that's the thing that's pulling them

in to begin with is that appearance

and what that car is like,

but it might be uncomfortable to sit in.

It might be too wonky on the road

as far as acceleration or braking or all those things,

but you buy the car for the looks, in my opinion.

100%.

Yeah.

Well, so I was going to talk,

Casey, you and I could talk about the Porsche and Macan,

RC1, maybe on the next pod

so we can move on to the next topic

because it's more fun.

Do you guys have-

Can I interject real quick?

I didn't get to my news.

It'll take one second.

No problem.

So I started working with a new client this week

that has some really significant and historic Audi's

which got me onto this idea of,

I want Audi's to be great.

There's a great article in the new

Grass Roots Motorsports about the 2000, 2001, 2002

Speed World Challenge GT class Audi S4

being driven by Randy Popst

at Monterey Reunion recently.

I don't have much to talk about regarding that

but go check out the article.

It's really good to me.

That's as good as Audi's ever were.

We're the B5 series.

So anyway, on to the next one.

Go check out that article.

Well, just to you,

so in case you guys don't know it,

Casey takes care of personally

some of the coolest car collections

that I've ever seen before.

And the stuff he shows us that he's not allowed

or not supposed to

or really too much of a gentleman to show on the podcast.

When you see some of the cars,

this guy takes after it's mind blowing.

So if you have a collection,

you want someone to really take after it.

Casey's your guy.

His connection is all of his information is down below.

And he also does a great job reselling cars.

Are you a, you're a bat guy now, right?

You're a-

Yeah, I just signed off on it.

Signed off on another one this morning.

And real quick, I can show the one behind me.

That's a, this is one of the gentleman's cars

that I was working with this week.

That is a one family owned C5 RS6 and Nagarro blue.

Never seen it before.

Have you guys ever seen that?

No, not Nagarro blue.

But what year is that Casey?

It looks like a year or two.

No, it was delivered originally to Minnesota early 2000s.

But the gentleman did some, he had, it's been refinished.

He's owned, this client and I got Nagarro blue approved

for the paint to sample list for Porsche back in 2017.

So if you order Nagarro blue Porsche, that's why.

This car, the cool thing about it

that many people won't notice is a lot of

these C5 RS6s have traditionally bump stops on the doors.

Like, you know, where you open the door

and it's got those rubber things on.

These are actually all road doors.

So the guy really goes to extra lengths

to make the cars really cool.

That's amazing.

That's your, so that's your customer

that did all that updating and hot.

Well, he has teams of people that work.

We're actually gonna work through a B5 RS4

that we can talk through on a different podcast.

I want you to show that RS6 Avant

and that really cool color

that you showed us in WhatsApp.

That would be awesome.

The RS4, RS6, sorry, RS6, yeah.

The purple one behind it.

I'll work on getting that picture.

Oh, the new one.

I was frothing over the B5 RS4,

which was, it was like Holy Grail.

I mean, they would kind of sneak in

from Canada for a little bit.

And they were, and I remember back then

I had a B5 S4 Avant that was like,

you know, 30 grand one year old CPO.

And those were still over a hundred.

And now what are they, 250 for an RS4 Avant

or more, 300?

Are they really?

Wow.

We'll talk about that on the next one.

But I'll pull up this purple one for you, Tim.

Thank you, sir.

All right, so let's go on to the next,

well, for the viewers too.

Let's go on to the next segment.

If you can only have one modern Porsche supercar,

only one, Paul, I'm looking at your notes.

Which would it be?

Paul is cheating.

He is, I know.

Which would it be and why?

And we're going to make Paul go last.

That way he can't repeat what you guys said.

Actually, oh, since you put that gorgeous,

those are back.

That is killer.

That is gorgeous.

But the cool thing is is that the wheels on that car,

the factory wheels are like,

I think they're like 65 pounds each.

Like they're huge.

The weight of them is insane.

So the wheels that you see on this car

are some sort of whoop-de-doo BBS forged things

that probably cost more than most of the cars that I own.

But they're downsized, too.

So it's got more sidewall.

And I went for a ride in it.

The car's insane.

It's really cool.

But he had a paint.

Is that a paint to sample color case?

Yeah, it's Audi exclusive.

Something or other.

Purple, very frozen, frozen goodness.

When you translate it from German, it's RRR.

I have something like that.

The guy's got super cool taste.

And I could talk about his collection.

I've told him a bunch of Porsches over the years.

And cool dude.

So we'll talk about him more later.

Speaking of super cool taste, have you guys ever

noticed the cars that Graham Rahall puts for sale,

the cars that he specs?

I mean, what the hell?

How does he come up with some of those combinations?

It's just amazing.

We should try to get Graham on the podcast.

I'm sure he would be on.

He's great.

All right, so if you could only have one modern supercar,

which one would you choose and why?

Dave, you first.

I'm going to have to say I would buy a new Ferrari.

And only because I'm so disappointed with the way

I'm being treated by Porsche for my GT3 RS right now.

I'm sorry.

If I bought a Ferrari, I wouldn't be on my car.

Wait, wait, wait, sorry.

I have to interrupt.

Wasn't this thing since the 959 wasn't supposed to be a Porsche?

Or not?

So one modern.

Well, I know.

I mean, I got the Porsche.

Dave's being sarcastic.

But I'm just lamenting on the fact that I don't.

If this had been a Ferrari, I

would be on my third case of salami

that I've been in.

Somebody would have shipped to me by now

with all the goodies since I had bought a Ferrari.

Instead, I get nothing.

Porsche gives me nothing.

You have this app, this silly app that's

trying to tell me where this car is.

And I see nothing.

It's there sitting there on number four,

still out of seven or eight of these numbers.

It's supposed to be on its way to here and there and now.

And all I have is this little app to follow along.

I'm very upset by it.

So you're getting my bitch, Porsche.

If you're listening, Porsche, send me a salami.

You're getting what I want.

You're getting.

You're getting marked in my full throttle talk notes

as being a deviant for not following instructions

for answering the questions.

OK, well, I'm glad I'm so glad apparently.

But this is the car.

Obviously, a GT3 RS.

How could I pick anything else?

I've ordered one.

This has got to be the car.

So I mean, I don't think I need the car.

Speaks for itself.

BT Silver, White Sock Package, Lightweight Pockets,

Nose Lift, all your basic options.

This is going to be a fantastic car to tool around.

I'll never obviously probably rip it to the total extent

of its capabilities, but it's still an amazing driving

machine that I'm looking for to get behind the wheel of.

The Stuttgart.

The Stuttgart Side Show Special.

Well, arguably, and I think you guys would agree,

perhaps at least the best modern whatever the hell you

want to call it car, super car, whatever available,

would you guys agree?

Yeah, the money.

Absolutely.

Right.

I mean, how can you beat it?

You can.

You just can't.

It's incredible.

All right, so Casey, you're next.

If you can have one modern Porsche supercar

and that you're stretching the definition of modern, I see.

But that's fine.

No, you said post 959.

I did.

This car came out in 2000 or sorry, 92, 93.

The car behind me is a Dauer 962 Street car that

was created for the Salt and the Brunei.

We could go that route or we could go with the Schupan 962

as well.

I'd be happy with either of them.

Or you could do a 962 that you could drive on the street

because I do know that people that do that.

So any version of 962 that's been street converted,

you would win any cars and coffee

unless you showed up in a GT1.

But GT1's Porsche made those.

So these are cooler because these were made in some guy's

garage in Germany.

Hey, Casey, he listed three cars there.

He's penalized.

I said Street version 962.

You picked your flavor.

I don't care.

So viewers, in case you're not noticing,

after the last podcast, we ran two hours.

All three of these clowns messaged me saying,

we need to make the show shorter.

We need to have fewer questions.

And I said, no, you guys just need a Yammer lesson,

follow instructions.

And now you're seeing what the problem is.

I'm the one hurting cats here.

I'm the one being abused by my friends.

Yes.

I'm still going.

You're still going to last, Paul.

Nope.

I'm fine.

To save the best for last, I'm good.

Oh boy.

All right.

So in my opinion, I thought about this, actually,

since it was my question, I thought about it a lot.

I would get a Carrera GT V10 from the Scrapped Le Mans

program, 612 horsepower, manual transmission.

But, you know, exactly.

Thank you, Dave, for supporting me on this one.

And but Porsches are from Ray Hall's page, by the way,

I think.

Oh, you know what?

Then that's the car, actually, that I was looking at.

I believe that car was sent back to Porsche

and redone to the green.

Yeah, you're right.

That one is the green when I apologize.

You're right.

That that isn't.

But is that?

But that's that was the other point I wrote down is that

you could send that honestly, guys, look at the picture of that.

If you're not on YouTube, I'm sorry that you're not on YouTube.

But when you see these cars, I know the 19 school,

I know all these other things are amazing.

But I just can't imagine the shape more beautiful than that.

Beautiful, not necessarily, you know, Ferrari beautiful,

but beautiful nonetheless.

That's just my opinion.

So that's what I would get for sure.

Yeah, it's a good choice because I think what makes that car

really neat is the fact that now Carrera GT is when we were there

in Germany, we started seeing several of them

they're getting recommissioned.

And by the way, BMW is doing the same thing with Z8s.

Same era.

Seriously?

Yeah, we were at BMW classic.

They had like, I don't know, nine or 10 Z8s.

And she says we just have a flood of Z8s getting anywhere

from service to refurbished to completely redone

later modern colors.

They were doing a Z8, I think, in Phoenix yellow.

Imagine that.

Do you guys, Casey and Dave, do you guys know anything?

Or even Paul, do you guys know anything about Z8s?

Have you ever?

I look after four of them.

I mean, and a Z and an Alpina.

They've got plenty of upholstery work on them.

They all fail in certain places that we have to fix.

Yeah, the door pockets fall off.

But no, I actually like the Alpina a lot.

I think it's a great car.

It's got a lot of torque.

It's really easy to drive the stick.

Normal ones are really good cars, too.

Well, would you guys agree that for mid-200s,

that car probably has some room to run as far as uniqueness goes?

I don't remember how many of those they made,

but damn, those are gorgeous.

Yeah, I think in the long term, they'll be a collectible.

But they'll always be on the coattails of Porsches

and Friars in terms of collectible.

So saving best for last.

And I thought really hard about this.

I did have another car.

It was originally my first thought,

paint to sample, 918 Spider.

But then I thought really hard about this.

Let me ask you guys, when was the last time,

not in a museum, but like at a cars and coffee

or on the street, did you see a 997.2 GT2 RS?

Can you even think about the last time you saw one?

In Monterey, Tim, did you see not at auction,

just rolling around a 997.2 GT2 RS?

I mean, maybe, you're right, very few,

if I saw any at all.

Even here in Southern California,

even at that bougie cars and coffee,

I never see them.

And they made 500, not a lot.

But still, you would think here in Southern California

or at Monterey Car Week, you would see them.

And going a step further,

they made a handful of paint to samples,

like this one in Porsche Racing Green, I think,

or I forgot what exactly the color was.

It's in, I think it's in Europe.

It's floating around.

But the thing about these cars

that I think will ultimately make them,

even a more halo car.

I mean, right now, value-wise,

I think they're worth more than a RS 4.0 or anything.

No, they're a little less.

I look after two of them.

I look after a carbon fiber fender car

and a non-carbon fiber fender car.

They both have about 3,000 miles on them,

and they're both real scary.

Okay, hold on.

He just said something interesting.

We can't let it get by us.

Carbon fiber, non-carbon fiber,

what are you talking about?

The front, so basically the four liter

was the end of the end, which got everything, right?

It got all the cool stuff from all the RS programs.

The GT2 RS had an available option

of carbon fiber front fenders.

So on a traditional GT3 RS,

it's got like your old car, Tim,

it has the stick-on fender flares on the front of it.

That one does too.

You can see how it has a little bit of a wheel arch there.

You can get the carbon fiber fender,

which is the same one that's on the four liter,

so that basically that flare

is molded into the fender itself.

I did not know that.

It was a $6,000 option back in the day,

probably worth 100 grand now.

You rarely see carbon fiber fender cars.

They probably made 70, 80, 100 of them,

of those 500 cars.

That's awesome.

And they're all in Washington, D.C., apparently, right?

They're all in the D.C. area,

because Casey's got them all.

I know four locally, but I will look after two.

They're kind of like the precursor

to the Weissach package, I mean, essentially.

And what's cool about these is its Metzger engine

is the last turbo manual transmission,

Metzger engine, widow killer,

like widow maker, whatever.

Like this, I think, is the final scary,

truly scary car from Porsche.

And after that, how much,

what was the horsepower in these 600, 515?

I've got a funny story to interject, Paul.

When these came out as a Porsche dealership,

we got allocated one.

We could either get a 2011 Speedster or GT2 RS.

And we did something that made Porsche really angry.

Guy called me up, said, I want to buy this car,

but I don't want to buy it from you.

I buy all my cars from this other dealership.

So the other dealership was relatively local.

It was still in our region.

And they said, the other dealership said,

what do you need to give us the allocation for this car?

Because we didn't get one.

So in 2011, Porsche's hottest thing was the new Cayenne.

So we traded one allocation of a GT2 RS

for six Cayenne allocations.

Good trade.

Yeah.

So money-making perspective it is.

Yeah.

And a chair of nation and allocation, it helped a lot.

So, Tim, would you agree that I won this segment?

No, I actually think Dave won.

That's what I was just thinking about.

The guy who picked a Ferrari didn't even follow him.

No, no, no.

I think honestly, I think they picked a Ferrari

because he wanted to salami.

That's the only reason, right?

I mean, I want Porsche to send me some schnitzel or something.

Well, but just think about this in all actuality.

No one's ever driving Cayce's choice, OK?

No one's ever going to drive your choice.

No one's ever driving my choice.

That's going to be afraid of breaking the carbon fire

where, for God knows, what do you have all the time.

They're going to drive his car.

So Dave's car, in my opinion, based on my own opinion,

is probably the best choice.

So that's what I have to say.

What do you think, Paul?

I think my car, as we talked about, the RS 4.0 being worth

more right now, I just think the GT2 RSes are undervalued.

I think no one really, there's so many other things

that no one ever asked me about them, ever.

And I just think that we're going to wake up one day

because they're still new.

They're only 15-year-old cars

and someone's going to wake up one day and go, holy cow,

how do I get one of these?

And how do we get one of these in not black or not silver?

What are they, mostly black and silver, probably?

Black, silver, black, silver, and red.

OK, everyone stop talking.

I've got a new, we're doing a new segment,

and I know none of you are prepared for this.

I'm doing it on purpose.

All right, so describe, this is a pop quiz,

and we're going to vote to whoever has the best answer.

Describe the road, the weather, the overall situation,

the perfect road, the perfect car,

the perfect situation, doesn't matter where it is.

You need to wax poetic as much as you possibly want,

and the car you're driving cannot be a Porsche.

Who wants to go first?

Geez.

OK, I got it.

There's a road where I grew up in Hagerstown, Maryland,

called Wolfsville Road.

That road, my wife and dog is passengers.

My dad's TR3, perfect weather just like it is right now.

You still have my answer.

Yeah, I mean, you can literally drag your fingers

on the ground if you wanted to.

That car has such romance, sense of occasion,

and honestly, it's a steal.

People are afraid of them because they're rusty pieces

of junk, but God, what an awesome car

and an awesome experience.

That or, well, I can't say 914, but yeah.

You can get alloy bodies for those cars

from a couple of places in England

if you want a re-body one, as long as you have a clean frame.

But if you're thinking about doing that, dear listener,

do know that, unfortunately, what happens

is that in the Le Mans, Porsche or Ferrari, listen to me,

Triumph had the option of racing alloy TRs,

but they didn't because they would

flex too much in the corners.

So just throwing it out there, there are, I think,

there's a company in England that remakes galvanized steel

replacement parts, too.

But in any event, I digress.

I really bring the show down if I start talking

about British cars with Casey.

You guys will fall asleep.

All right, Dave, you're up next.

If you're ready, you can pass.

You're available.

Yeah, no, no, I'm ready.

I don't have a picture or anything, though,

because this was a pop quiz.

But I would probably say I would be wanting to go out

to where I normally do my driving up into mountains.

There's a couple of mountains up near Little Switzerland,

North Carolina, a couple of roads, 226 and 226A,

that come off of I-40.

You get off, you have to drive about five miles.

You're going through an old industrial area,

and then you turn off to head up this mountain.

And I would probably, if it can't be a Porsche,

I'm gonna say a nicely set up suspensions,

1972 Datsun 240Z would be the car.

Very cool.

It would be, you know, just the windows down.

It would be, I can't remember what the color is,

but then whatever the orange was from that period,

it was just a great color.

Seats not terribly supportive.

I probably would have improved the seats,

but I would just go ripping up that mountain

and the switchbacks and the turn-ins and all that,

assuming that suspension was set up nice,

that straight six would be rolling

as I would get up to the top of the hill

and I would pull into Little Switzerland

and pull right into the little ice cream store there

and get myself a little ice cream.

I love it.

I love how you painted the whole picture.

And Paul, but you're going in advanced player mode.

You cannot choose a road in California.

I just had us all set.

I know.

Fine, I have more roads.

I have more roads.

So I would be taking road 191.

It is on the eastern border of Arizona,

parallel to the New Mexico border.

I mean, literally maybe a stone's throw from New Mexico.

It's out of Alpine, Arizona, and you head south

and you end up, I think I mentioned it before.

It used to be called Highway 666

and they changed the name, yes,

because there were some deaths on the road,

but there was deaths on lots of road,

but mostly because people were stealing the signs,

obviously.

So they changed it to Highway 191, boring name,

and it ends up, I think it's, yeah, it starts,

I mean, 191 goes all the way up to, I think, Canada,

but when you look on a map at 191 in Arizona,

you go from Alpine and it ends up in the largest copper mine

in the world, in southern Arizona,

and it is 75 miles of turns.

And the car, my first thought was Lotus Elise,

and if I was in California,

Lotus Elise with the top off on Highway 36.

What year, older new, what vintage?

It would be like 2007, eight, nine, something like that,

but because of this road, 191,

and having been on it,

I would pick a BMW E30 M3 Sport Evo

because Sport Evo is the top of the line E30,

the homologated car.

It wasn't as wacky as the Mercedes Evo

with the giant wings, it was fairly subtle.

The only came in red or black,

but there was so much,

and I've sold one of these cars

and I drove it on Angeles Crest,

the whole way on Angeles Crest,

and when I drove it,

and I'm kind of a person that wants to love E30 M3s,

but the US E30 M3s are absolute boring dog shit.

And I drove that car and I was blown away.

I was like, this is the car that we should have got.

I think it's the car the engineers at BMW wanted to build.

It says it's 250 horsepower,

our anemic ones were like 175.

There's no way it's 250 horsepower.

It's got torque everywhere,

it's got low end grunt,

it's got horsepower.

And have you guys all driven an E30 M3?

Long time ago.

We all agreed, they are insanely balanced.

They are wonderful handling cars,

they just lack power.

This is enough power without getting scary.

And that road 191 is 80 miles of anything

from the tightest twisties,

you have elevation gains of over 8,000 feet and drops

and the balance of an E30 M3 would be glorious.

And if the doctor says, okay,

I will be on that road in a month's time.

You will be.

I will be in an SUV.

100%.

Yeah, well, you will be behind the wheel too, Paul.

And to finish off Dave's thing,

when you finish this as a victory,

you end up in this tiny,

the mining town called Morenchi, Arizona.

And they have this little,

the most Mel's diner, greasy spoon,

highway 66 roadside diner called the miners diner,

where you will be literally like an alien in there

because everyone in there are miners

and you just come in there

and you get a cup of coffee and those old coffee cups.

You get a grumpy waitress,

you get grits and whatever.

Speaking of aliens,

are you guys ever driven to Area 51 by chance?

Yeah, I mean,

we did that in 2021.

I'll tell you guys a real, real quick story.

We are in our RS6 Avant, which we still have.

And we drove to, you know, Area 51.

And so we're in this museum

and the museum's got all these, you know,

you remember it, you know,

so it's got literally,

it's really kind of an interesting tourist trappy thing.

And we're looking at all these aliens

and looking at all these bodies and all the rest of it.

And some people, by the way,

don't think those are actually fake.

They think those are real alien bodies

and that they're just kind of, you know, gaslighting us.

Who knows?

Not that I listened to creepy alien podcasts,

but I'll tell you though,

and I mean this with as much respect as I can muster,

even though the aliens were creepy looking,

the people that were there visiting it

were creepier looking than the displays.

It's true.

I went through it with Julie and I pulled her off the side

and she was with Zoe looking at all these things.

I said, Julie, stop looking there.

Look there.

What do you see?

And then we left.

Okay.

I haven't been to that particular spot,

but it sounds interesting.

So my perfect road, perfect car would be flying into Rome,

picking up a, not an Amalfi,

but a Ferrari Roma spider with Julie.

It's always at summer camp someplace.

She doesn't like, you know,

she's not a car person, you know, I'm doing my best.

And then driving down to probably Monaco

because there's so many beautiful roads there

or flying into Paris and doing that drive

and flying down or in driving down

and just stop at every little beautiful non, you know,

touristy spot on the way down.

That would be kind of my dream scenario, frankly.

Why not in a, why not an Amalfi?

Why a Roma?

I don't like the design of the new Amalfi.

It looks to me like they're trying to basically

what we were talking about earlier, play Kate.

I look, that egg, that grill in the front.

I love the fact that that's a nod to the old one.

If you look at the back end of that design,

I've seen both at car week,

the back end of the design of the Rome is sculpted.

I think it's gorgeous.

I just don't even understand.

The front end of the Amalfi looks like a Tesla Model 3.

That I, you know, that's what I'm saying about that.

I don't want to piss Ferrari off.

They want so many more cars.

All right, so let's go on to our next topic.

Let's go on to our next topic.

And this one's hopefully will be a heated debate.

This was inspired by Jason Camisa,

who I think Paul is friends with.

So it's automotive journalism dead.

Oh, actually, you know, Tim Burton,

who is known as Schme on YouTube

actually had a rant about this as well.

So it's automotive journalism dead.

Influences manufacturers leave the customer screwed

for valid critical information.

All right, so I'm going to go last

because I think you guys are going to take

a different stance and Casey's been very patient.

Casey, do you have an opinion on this?

You know, just like news outlets,

I believe picking your automotive journalists

that you care about is paramount.

I've been a smoking tire listener since 2012.

Some of my favorite automotive journalists

have been on that.

People who Paul is friends with, you know,

Matt and Zach, you know, Jeff Gluckr,

Chris Harris has been on there before.

But honestly, you know, the picture I have behind me

is something that I watched this morning

in preparation for this to celebrate Paul and his decision,

which was probably the right one.

But, you know, Harry Metcalf put out a video this morning

about his, who is a great automotive journalist

who wrote for Eva for years.

He started.

He did a video on a GT2RS and it was awesome.

And it brought back what I believe

is the more important things,

which is talking more so about engineering and passion

than it is about stuff that's flashy

and stuff that appeals to like the kind of folks

that you are around at Car Week, Tim.

Like that stuff doesn't, I don't look at TikTok.

I don't subscribe to Instagram when I see people walk up

to people in cars and say, what do you do for a living?

That's not the type of automotive journalism

that I like.

I don't care about those things.

I care about the, like the new Carmudgeon podcast.

I'm about a quarter of the way through,

but it talks about how Jason bought a Mark III Cabrio

and he's got a stuff of VR6 in it.

I mean, that to me is as great as it gets.

So that is what I choose to watch

and that's what I choose to listen to.

And so I don't think it's dead.

I just think that there's so much crap out there

that people really need to hone in

on what they believe is important

because if people really like the shock and awe and,

oh my gosh, this car, this Ford EV truck is amazing.

Dave Van Epps, you know, I don't know what to,

yeah, I know you're excited.

That just does nothing for me.

I'm excited about that Ford Lightning.

Yes, it just does nothing for me.

I'm, I'm, I like the old school guys.

So, but just, do you think

automotive journalism is dead?

Do you think that these guys are biased in there?

I'm gonna agree with you on Harry.

He's definitely a good guy.

But do you think a lot of these people,

I'm gonna voice my stance on this,

but do you think a lot of these journalists are out there?

And I think Harry's an exception, truthfully.

Do you think they're influenced

because the massive amount of competition

from these YouTube influencers and the manufacturers

basically are no, essentially you won't be given

the Royal Red Rug treatment anymore

as an automotive journalist

because they can just basically pull in, you know,

not really professional automotive journalists

from YouTube and Instagram and whatever.

And those people will just wax poetics

or if we're saying it twice on one podcast

about their products and not be critical of them.

When was the last time, Casey,

and I hope you can think of one, cause I couldn't.

When's the last time you heard anybody

on any form of automotive media say anything

to crap talk any new car product

from any manufacturer.

Now, compare that to say 15 years ago.

Matt Perry does it all the time.

Yeah, I was saying Matt does it all the time.

He shits on it.

Especially, it's all the time.

Yeah, but he shits on Teslas.

What else does he shouldn't?

I don't know, but like I remember,

I mean, the best was when the Fisker is trying to give,

the Fisker Ocean was trying to give him a car

and he finally said, guys,

and he talked about on the podcast,

you don't want me reviewing your car.

I remember that.

No, I mean, Matt's super honest.

I mean, and I, he's one of the,

I mean, the crazy thing is,

is that I don't really watch a lot

of smoking tire car reviews.

If it comes up on the podcast, I listen to it,

but I don't watch the videos,

which I might be in the minority there,

but they do voice their opinions.

Do you think the consumer of automotive content anymore

doesn't appreciate Matt Farah and his ability to drill down?

Cause he is amazing with his automotive

and he is such a good writer,

such a good, one of my favorite for sure.

Do you think that the consumer

that the industry is trying to appeal to,

we've been talking about this on every show,

doesn't give a shit about the drill down?

I don't think people, a lot of people anymore care.

I don't think a lot of people care about details.

They care about like what you were talking about earlier,

how big the grill is on a BMW,

a user experience where they can get in the car

and it lights up a different color.

You know, I get in my 911, I turn the lights on,

everything's kind of orange.

You know, that's perfect.

Very dim though.

It's very dim inside.

Dave, what do you think?

Do you think automotive journalism?

Well, I think you're gonna have to find you're going,

it's like everything that's occurred

in the sense, the advent of mainstream social media

and the fact that think if you go back 10 years,

how many people would define themselves

as automotive journalists?

I guarantee it is a much smaller segment

of the population than it is today

because now with a camera and a microphone,

everybody can be an automotive journalist.

Everybody's got an opinion.

And I agree with what you're saying though, Tim,

and partly is because I think that that's a tough business.

Be an automotive journalist.

How many rich automotive journalists do you know?

Right?

I mean, it's not the kind of thing

where you're gonna make a giant living

being an automotive journalist.

You're gonna have some fun.

You're gonna get taken to some great places.

But if you are, you're not going

to shoot the golden goose, right?

If you're getting flown around by Ferrari or BMW

or Audi or Porsche someplace,

you're gotta be very careful.

It's like the movie reviewers.

It's the same idea.

You've got to be careful.

It's a delicate balance.

I think you're going to have to look harder

in the niche you want to look into,

kind of like where Casey's going.

If you want to drill down,

you're gonna have to find the guy

that you're gonna want to drill down and follow.

They're gonna still be out there.

But the sellout guys, just the quick,

the YouTube experience type automotive journalists,

that's not the same thing.

Can we all agree though,

we'd be more than willing to sell out for free trips

to do automotive launches and test cars

and Chatsky's and whatever.

I mean, are you all,

is everyone here in total agreement

that we all took this out?

Yeah, I mean, but you'd have to not,

it wouldn't be automotive journalism at that point.

It's really just your writing about the experience you had

and hopefully the car is good.

And I would write it in a way

that the automotive manufacturer

thought I was complimenting them,

but the actual people would knew it would be true satire.

It's sarcasm.

Well, who is an automotive journalist

that I'm maybe not name a name,

but do you really think that most of these guys

that are famous on YouTube really know

with how steering feel is?

Do you really, can you really listen to what they have to say

and when they're comparing a car with numb steering field

to a car with numb steering field

and they say one has more steering field than the other,

they've never driven a car with real steering field.

So they have no baseline to really compare it to.

Most of them don't.

And so Paul, go ahead.

Let's see when you talk to the automotive journal,

you hear automotive journalists on podcasts

like Matt Farron and so forth,

talking about they go to these launches

and they will not go in cars with,

they only wanna go in cars with people that they know

because they're like all the majority of the people

that don't even know how to drive these cars,

let alone report on them.

And they're like, I'm not getting in the car with them.

So yeah, to your point, I don't think you're right.

They don't know, they don't haven't driven enough cars

to know what steering feel is or care to learn.

Some of these automotive journalists

don't even have a car.

They can't drive manual, bro.

They can't drive manual.

I mean, seriously, that's a thing.

And they're not automotive journalists.

They're just reporters on society or reporters on.

They are to a generation.

I get what you're saying, Tim, but in truth,

that's not what an automotive journalist should be.

An automotive journalist should be somebody,

the writer for car and driver, motor trend,

any of that kind of stuff, right?

Who's going in and reviewing the car

and comparing it to three or four other light cars.

What I just see now all of a sudden

is a lot of this stuff is, let's put four cars in a row

and drag race them down a quarter mile, right?

And like, which car is going to prevail?

Well, that means, but that is what's happening

and the manufacturers are making cars

that are appealing to the flash in the back.

I said this last week, right?

A 918 rolls by and your upcoming GT3 RS rolls by.

I guarantee you, nine out of 10 people

are going to think the GT3 RS, your car,

is more badass than the 918 because the 918 just blends

and they'll think it's a fancy boxer.

Casey?

I mean, you're talking about,

we were talking about kind of pale

and those sorts of things that comes along

with a lot of these YouTubers,

but, and I don't want to always talk about Matt Farah,

but being that a lot of his content is what I consume.

If you looked at his pictures that he took

of doing the road and track preview down near

where you live and you live, Dave and Tim,

it basically, it said at the bottom of it

that the car, the airfare,

the insurance and the fuel was provided by Porsche.

That to me is the transparency that needs to be shown

in the automotive journalism world.

And that any time that they get flown to some place,

like when he was doing the Dakar thing

and you know, Monaco or wherever that was,

it's that everything was provided by the manufacturer.

There has to be, when somebody's giving you this access,

you have to be transparent.

It's just like any news media.

And unfortunately, so much of it is biased

because of sponsorship, advertising and all these things

that I'm not sure you're ever gonna get it,

but that's why you need to pick the person

that you believe in.

But I mean, Matt has that background.

He's the longer term.

He's been in this for a long, long game.

He can, he's recognized in a way that you guys,

you guys realize there's not another generation

that's coming up.

Who's the next generation?

You guys are talking about people that are almost like

they're basically our age, not you Casey,

but well, yeah, you too.

Matt and I were both born in 82.

So we're the same age.

Same age.

Yeah, but that's my, and I was born in 70, you know?

But my point is, is who are the,

you are the generation, who's the younger generation

that's coming up?

Who are the ones that are?

Who?

Well, the thing is, we're trying to put them

in the context of what we know to be our paradigm

of automotive journalism.

We don't know maybe automotive journalism

is gonna be a lot different.

Imagine our, you know, my dad's generation

and my grandfather's generation, you know,

if they saw the way automotive journalism's done today

even by the smoking tire and Jason Camisa

and reputable journalists, they would be like,

they might think the same way we're thinking

about the YouTube and the TikTok crew.

But I remember, you know, distinctly in the 80s

with Road and Track, these manufacturers,

I remember there was a conversation similar to this

where they're like, okay, you know,

Mercedes has like nine pages of ads,

you know, in their next quarter of magazines

and there were some automotive journalists then accused

of being favorable because they're a big advertiser.

And they had the same problem is they're getting,

you know, subscriptions don't pay the magazines,

the advertisers and then they're gonna write shit about them.

So I think it's always been a delicate line

and like anything else, it's like news,

you name your format of news,

you can find the news that you want

that supports what you wanna see

and to find something in today's day and age

that is truly unbiased or truly just editorial

and not opinion, it gets really hard.

And when you talk about automotive, that's so subjective.

And also guys, we're thinking of this narrow paradigm,

we're thinking of us car guys that are buying Porsches

and Ferraris and all these like 0.05% of the market cars.

When you think about, and it's hard,

like think about the guy out there

who's going to buy his next family hauler,

not a car guy, he's got these requirements,

carry this many people, tow this much stuff,

go to these places, et cetera.

For example, my sister, the only car related stuff she is

is what she picks up from me, you know, on the edge.

And she has a Honda Odyssey minivan

that I got for her when it was a two year old vehicle

20 years ago, she's tired of driving it,

kids growing up, she's like, hey, what should I get?

And I'm like, think of these cars.

And she goes, well, what about automotive reviews?

I referred her to the Savage Geese,

which if you haven't seen that,

he reviews mostly boring ass cars,

but he goes really in depth technical

and it's really objective.

And the problem with it is,

and I have to ask her to follow up,

like could she make it through it?

Does she care enough to make it through it?

Or did she just zip through the part she wants to see?

Which is basically what's the fuel economy,

how many does it have Apple CarPlay, whatever.

So going back to automotive journalism,

I don't know if there's enough market consumption

that even gives a shit about honest automotive journalism,

except for our narrow little segment of us

who want the truth.

Well, you realize that this podcast

actually is being seen as automotive journalism.

Do you guys realize that we're gonna become influencers

in the automotive phase?

It shouldn't be.

Tune us off now.

Exactly.

So now I got to be in this slate truck.

Don't listen to us, exactly.

So now I have to be accurate and truthful.

Fuck.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Well, no, no, no, let's go back to what I said previously.

We're gonna start getting swag.

We're gonna start getting flow in different places

for automotive.

This isn't the other things.

We'll never have to pay for a ticket before.

I'll call that a success from this podcast.

You're gonna get flown to Baltimore

is what's gonna happen.

In Chicago.

You'll get flown to Baltimore from, you know, from.

From Reagan.

There you go.

I asked you guys, could you guys check the chat?

I asked you guys a question in chat.

I just wanna make sure everything's good.

So let's go, if you guys are assuming,

let's see what your responses are in chat.

Listeners, viewers, I'm asking them if they're all good.

If anyone needs to take a potty break.

Okay, I got it, Casey.

All right, that's fine.

So I'm gonna ask you guys a bonus question.

And I don't know, Dave and Casey, if you saw this.

I hope it's about the spoilers

and which spoiler we like the most.

Yeah, okay.

We're never gonna get to that.

Okay, hold on.

I wanna be diplomatic.

Who wants to talk about spoilers

on the next podcast?

Raise your hand.

I don't, I think it should just be a shtick

that we just keep kicking the can.

Yeah, maybe, maybe.

That and calling Paul Kramer.

He really loves that.

I do.

Oh, so I am gonna point this out

because I mentioned this before.

So Paul, who makes fun of Italian cars

in my passion for Ferrari,

his hat has a Lamborghini on it.

Just for the record, I'm wearing a PCA hat.

So there you go.

You put those two pieces together.

It matches your shirt though.

That's the only reason, Tim,

because it matches your shirt.

Totally.

And by the way,

I have a PCA hat in every color.

You're right.

We never did a watch check today.

I know, but I didn't wanna be made fun of,

so I didn't do it, so we're gonna skip it.

So there you go.

Bonus question, depending on timing,

one new car you wanted to love,

but were ultimately disappointed with.

Casey, did you prepare one?

Yep.

Okay, let's go.

All new outies.

Oh, that's what you're almost gone for.

I just, I told you, I talk about outies a lot.

My daily driver is a 2021 Audi S4

that I just clicked over 80,000 miles on.

It's a wonderful car.

It checks all the boxes for me.

And unfortunately, the one space that I work,

it's near an Audi dealership,

and I see all the new,

they don't even make S4s and A4s anymore.

It's all fives, and they've got these slopey back

things on them that don't provide any storage space inside.

I have no idea.

I mean, outies only last to about 100,000 miles

unless you really wanna dump big money into them.

I have no idea what I'm gonna get next.

A new Golf R.

That's probably what we're gonna get.

I need more space than that.

Isn't it?

I need to be able to throw seats and wheels

and that kind of stuff in, yeah.

Didn't they drop the four

because the four is now gonna be all electric?

I don't know, man.

I gave up all stupid things.

I'm not an on-pale automotive journalist.

I don't know these things anymore.

I just know that everything I see now is ugly.

Again, third time, we're all looking for Payola,

so just wanna put it out there.

Swag, we can start small.

Pins will go through whatever you got.

You can get, Tim needs a new purse.

Everybody gets Tim a new purse.

What's wrong with the RS6 Avant in a wagon?

It's going away.

No, no, no, they're bringing it back.

They're not electrifying.

It's gonna be gas.

Okay, well, we'll see what that looks like

when it comes out, but also,

I do not have a brand new one.

I don't have a brand new one anyway.

New or used Audi RS6 Avant money.

I'll be with Paul on that one.

No, I mean, I hear what you're saying,

but that won't last

because your business is taking off,

but the reality of it is those cars

are comfortably between like 80 and 100 grand

for a really nice one.

So, I mean-

I will reiterate.

Currently, I am not in the position to buy it.

I have a Money Pit 964,

which is where all of my money goes.

I'm sorry, I'm just,

I'm trying to picture Casey on the Payola.

Imagine Casey with his deadpan kind of delivery,

trying to act super excited about a product

that he absolutely detests

because he's on the Payola.

Do you guys realize-

This new Ferrari is great.

Come drive this new Ferrari, it is awesome.

Look, it doesn't even have a button to turn it on.

You just look at it.

Something's getting by all of us here.

Paul, Mr. Southern California doper, obviously,

thinks Payola is just basically a drug.

We're talking about the old 1950s things

where basically, you know,

essentially people would be paid-

Sure.

Yeah, to play songs on radios.

Play records, right?

Payola.

Yeah.

You need to get out of Southern California and come on.

All right, so Paul, you can go next

since you're thinking about

what you're going to be doing after this.

I mean, the new M5 Touring,

we have been pining for an M5 Touring in North America.

We've never got an M5 Touring.

The E34 passed us by.

The E39 never got actually billed

except for a prototype.

And then finally, they announced it.

And okay, it's, you know, typical BMW current design,

which if it wasn't for the previous design,

which makes this look kind of okay,

it's actually objectively ugly, in my opinion.

Sorry, I'm not getting Payola.

Look at that weird, like,

it's almost like a loincloth thing

hanging out the back bumper that wraps around.

I mean, I don't know.

It's a thong.

It's a car thong.

It's a whale tail.

Is it corrupt the trailer hitch or something?

What the hell is that?

I don't know what it is.

It's the blinking thing for F1 cars

when they're in the rain.

That's what that area is for.

And, you know, like Johnny Lieberman loves it,

which sounded almost like Payola.

You know what, I'm sorry to interrupt,

but all of the journalists that I like

all had hugely differing opinions on this car.

And I don't know what to think.

I don't know either, because they were...

What do you think, though?

Hold on.

No, we're gonna take a step back.

So talk about that, Casey.

You bring this up.

You don't know what to think.

Why?

I like Chris Harris loves the car.

Chris Harris is my favorite automotive journalist

from back in his Driver's Republic days

a zillion years ago.

I followed him through everything.

Okay, so...

He loves it.

But to me, when you add it all up,

huge weight, EV batteries, those sorts of things,

to me, it doesn't make sense.

It's getting away from an E39 wagon,

what that could have been,

which like the guys on Speed Academy

built one of those a while ago and it was amazing.

But to me, it just doesn't add up.

Isn't it three tons, Casey?

Isn't that thing...

I think it's around 5,000 pounds.

Johnny went pretty poetic on it,

on the Spikes podcast,

and they all had differing opinions on that one, too.

So I don't know, I don't have a...

If we got off loan to a BMW launch in Barcelona,

and they basically all 100%

the best experiences of our lives,

don't you think psychologically

you would have an impossible time being objective

about the car you're driving

because you wanted to show respect

for the people that just basically rolled it out for you?

Now, that goes back to our previous question,

because have you seen that car in real life, Paul?

Have you actually seen it?

Yeah, we went to the...

In Germany, we went to the tour of BMW,

we went to the whole little modern display stuff,

and they had actually the yellow car like this

and a green one, and the colors look great.

And then, but when you looked even in person,

it looked so big.

I wish I had a picture of me next to it,

but here's a funny thing.

A bunch of people are there that aren't carners,

it's like a whole BMW has this whole mall thing,

and there's just people there hanging out,

and the people were frothing over this car.

They thought it was great.

And I wish I spoke German and go,

what the fuck are you thinking?

Well, they thought it looked great

because other people told them

that they went in M5 touring

and they don't have their own opinions.

That's unfortunately what is essentially happening.

And all these influencers going back

to our previous topic are equally as informed,

you determine whether it's ill-informed or not,

and they're all the ones that are basically pumping

that this is amazing.

Having seen this in real life in a gorgeous color green,

it was a massive disappointment.

It's a slab side.

It looks like a refrigerator on the side.

And here's the thing that was sort of frustrating.

If you remember when the Cadillac CT5V Blackwing came out,

they did a really cool BMW M5 sedan versus that.

I think the BMW M5 came in a manual, the sedan,

that was competing with the manual CT5V Blackwing.

And the Blackwing I think was ultimately

the better car, but the M5 held its own.

Jason Camisa did that thing at Willow Springs

with Randy Popes and the M5 was really cool.

And I was like, oh, great.

They just make that into a wagon.

But it's like they started over

and they gave a lump of like Play-Doh to a kid

and said, here, just fling it out

and we'll just, we'll do that.

No manual transmission, cool motor-ish.

We'll just make it as heavy as possible.

Super disappointment.

Going back to your original question,

really bummed out because we finally get the M5 touring,

finally after three decades and it's a pile of dog shit.

Dave, moving past pile of dog shit,

what's your biggest modern car that you wanted to love

but ultimately were disappointed with?

I'm not even sure I wanted to love it,

but I was disappointed with the new Toyota Land Cruiser.

Just given the history of that vehicle

and where that car had gone to become kind of the apex

of these super road capable vehicles.

And then this comes out with that badge,

which is just sharing a platform with several other cars,

although the Land Cruiser did, but I've been in it.

It does not anywhere feel look anything like the old cars.

And I just think the old cars are just better,

clearly more expensive cars.

So maybe this is just trying to appeal

to a broader audience, but it's not a Land Cruiser.

Now the Sequoia is kind of the top of the line, right?

Which is based off the Tundra platform.

This thing is just its own deal.

And it doesn't speak to me.

So I was disappointed with the appearance of it.

It looks just boxy, maybe it's gonna grow on me.

A good friend of mine bought one.

I got in it, so he just, you know,

hopefully he's not listening, but there you go.

He probably is listening.

Well, maybe he's, but...

My answer is very simple.

It's not this long, maybe, I don't know.

My answer is very simple.

The new VW Buzz, a whole bunch of reasons.

A, it's electric, that was a disappointment.

B, the long wheelbase that they sell in the United States,

that's a disappointment.

If they made the short wheelbase,

and even if they kept it electric,

that would be a really cool car.

And if they then did some things

to make it a little bit more appealing

as far as foreign more of enthusiastic type driver.

So that was my answer, VW Buzz.

Everyone agree, VW Buzz?

Yeah, that was gonna be my answer.

I saw that you were going with that, but that was absolutely.

And plus the fact that they tease us for two decades.

They've been teasing us forever about that.

So by the time it comes out, it's sort of like,

you had to do something remarkable,

not for us to just shit on it.

And the problem was, they left some big holes.

Like you said, when I was in Europe,

I saw lots of short wheelbase ID buzzes.

And they were...

And they looked great, right?

Fucking awesome.

Oh, they looked awesome, loved them.

But look at all the cool motors,

the little small four cylinder motors

that Volkswagen Audi group has,

that also Porsche uses.

And they could have plop one of those things in

with 400 horsepower, all wheel drive badass van.

Come on, people.

A golf R ID buzz.

Yeah, well, all right.

Moving on.

If somebody will do one, we'll build one.

Seriously, that'd be awesome, wouldn't it?

All right, segment five, current automotive trends

that you wish would die a quick death

and current automotive trends

that you don't think will age well.

All right, so Casey, you get to know,

go first, because I have a feeling you've got some zingers.

Golf livery on anything.

Oh!

Pull on the wind.

And move on.

We can just stop this segment and move on to auctions.

Oh, yeah, I'm feeling hurt.

I gotta pull it up here,

but I sent you guys that picture from yesterday.

I had an 84 target that I did at a golf livery.

I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

Mental note, had Casey go last next time

asking a question.

And mental note, when Casey doesn't put his answer

in spreadsheet, make sure he goes last

because he's gonna have the best answer.

All right, mic drop.

Go ahead, Paul.

Swan neck spoilers.

Porsche came out with it and two things,

there's swan neck and they're like, okay,

that's not enough.

We're gonna do the man thigh like dorsal fin.

And then, you know, Jim Farley copying GT3.

He wants to do a GT3 in a Ford platform.

He does the swan neck.

And my biggest problem with this,

and I understand this is coming

from the road race program.

My biggest problem is I can just see this shit

starting to pop up on the Honda Civic R.

And now all of a sudden,

we're gonna have swan neck spoilers

for cars that will never even get to 130 miles an hour

where it's actually effective.

And yeah, I'm done with these things.

Look at that.

Is that not fucking ugly?

It's just pick on Dave's segment.

Come on, Jim.

Let's double down.

Double down on Dave.

Oh yeah, Dave's getting a GT3 RS.

Oh yeah.

But it's not beautiful,

but who doesn't think that's not the most badass ass cool,

go-to-war, frickin' battle action

you've ever seen before?

So they do that because of surface area

on the bottom of the spoiler

to create more downforce.

I mean, it, you know.

You're an ignorant.

It makes sense.

It makes sense, it's just, yeah.

But it's so ugly.

I mean, the only thing.

These wings have been around forever.

I mean, think about our wing segment

that we're never going to do, right?

I mean, wings have been around forever and ever and ever.

They'll still be there.

Now you're talking about the Gooseneck wing

specifically, right?

This the overall kind of deal, right?

I mean.

Yeah.

It looks, I mean, you can clean the underside of it

much easier now, I guess.

That's the bonus.

I mean.

Well, before the list comes from here.

There are dynamics on a street car.

Nobody has.

It's just basically all for the Instagram crowd.

That's just the bottom line.

So I'll go next if you don't mind, Dave.

Do you mind if I go next?

No, not at all.

All right, so automotive trends that I wish I would,

that I, you know, I'm kind of over.

Matte paint, okay?

Number one, exposed carbon fiber.

I don't get it.

I mean, I have it on some of my cars, but I'll say,

let me, let me preface it.

Exposed carbon fiber, sorry, Dave,

but I have it on my car.

Poor Dave, jeez.

No, I do, I do.

I have it on our Ferrari, our Porsches,

our Alfa Romeo, but exposed carbon fiber

that is not part of the actual car's structure.

So for example, when you buy, sorry Ferrari,

a Ferrari with carbon fiber bits and bobs on it,

but the body is alloy.

That's not as cool as for example, Dave's 911,

which has carbon fiber actual major componentry on it

to make it light.

So carbon fiber used as a Chachki, okay?

There's another Yiddish word for you.

So carbon fiber used as a Chachki.

I am so over it.

It's boring.

Who decided the carbon fiber in the exposed weave and all

that was something beautiful.

There's so many other materials that we could be exploring

that are equally as cool if not more cool, right?

So, oh, I got another one.

And I'll tell you, this is the second part of the question.

I think you guys missed this,

but current automotive trends that won't age well,

there's about to be an explosion in stickers

and decals and liveries coming out of everybody.

Porsche, Ferrari is doing it.

The new Ferrari liveries,

I went to the spec thing to build the Testerosa.

And oh my gosh, you got to be fricking kidding me.

Stickers on stickers on stickers on stickers

and Ferrari, they're all painted.

But if Ferrari and Porsche are doing it,

everybody in their brother is going to come out

with a decalpalooza.

It's like the 1970s when everybody had this special

edition Trans Am, you know, there you go.

That's my answer.

Yep.

Good answers.

Nothing like the screaming chicken though.

Come on now.

Dave, your turn.

Okay, Dave, we just shit on your car.

Sorry.

That's quite all right.

I can live with this, right?

Mine are more, you know, I don't know.

They're certainly visual and unfortunately,

I don't have an image of this,

but I know you can all appreciate at least

the clear lens, rear lenses and just the whole,

what I'll call white out or black out of these cars

where they've either smoked all the glass

so the entire car looks dark

or they've gone to a complete white,

clear on every surface of the car.

I specifically did not pick that

for the rear tail lights on this GT3

because I just think that is a trendy thing

that's gonna go away.

I don't like the way it looks.

I don't understand it.

And I'm sure there's plenty of people

that just think that's the greatest thing ever,

but when you take like the picture behind Paul

of that 991.2, when you take those rear tail lights

and go completely clear

and then put red bulbs behind them or whatever,

I just think it looks like ass.

I don't understand that look, that's one of mine.

My other bitch is just, they're all mighty.

Maybe it's just age, but because loud cars

have been around for a long time,

but to get these cars where the exhausts are so loud

on a street car, not like that Paul.

I like that because that's purpose built.

That is purpose built for that.

Trouble maker.

But back to my comment about Stellantis and Hemmys,

how often you're rolling down the road

and you're just driving along,

you may be driving along in a spirited pace

and some idiot just feels like they got a stomp

on their challenger next to you

and your glass is reverberating as they blow by you.

And I just don't understand the need for that, I guess.

I don't know, maybe it's making me sound old.

The pops and bangs are the worst.

Like on overrun where they lift off

and it sounds like they're shooting a gun.

Yeah.

It's like they're saying BMW with exhaust notes.

Yeah, well, at Monterey car week,

those were the loudest cars.

What were the M4, I don't remember the engine number.

No, McClachy.

Really selling me on going to car week, Tim.

Well, I'll be honest with you.

Just, you know, it's not car week anymore.

And I actually had this thought too.

I think Looft is the new for Porsches anyway.

That's the new car week.

Those Looft events, the reason they're so successful

is because of the fact that they're

making me think that's just the car week.

And I just didn't get it wrong.

I mean, I don't know if that's the car week

or Rensport.

Did you guys follow up?

I know we're probably going to get to auctions,

but did you guys follow up on a lot of the media

that was coming out about car week and how it was fascinating

that I was so glad that I wasn't the only one that

didn't think it was that great?

I mean, not great.

Like I had been in the past, great.

Maybe a different way.

Did you guys were surprised?

But it was changed.

Yeah, that it's changed.

That it's more influencer based.

In front of them.

And yeah, it's totally different, right?

That's probably why Looft is successful, right?

Yeah, it's because people are looking to.

Yeah, you want it.

OK, that's fine.

Casey wants to roll into auctions.

All right, so we're going to do the next one.

All right, you guys have time.

I mean, I got to take care of you.

You know, Paul's got us, you know, he's in his chair

and he's got a little peek up.

So he's fine.

When he rolls backwards, though, with the background

that he has, it looked like previously

that he got a cup of coffee out of the hood

of that Tesla truck truck.

We're going to you.

We're going to go to segment six this week at auctions.

What are your top two follows and sales?

Why Casey, you get to go first.

So I talked about this last week,

but this was that 200,000 mile one owner.

964 car closed for seventy two five.

The cheat.

Well, you know, I for 200,000 mile car

that the motor has never been cracked on.

I mean, I know what I paid for mine

and I know that I had to spend thirty five grand

to make it right.

So I I'm not sure that is Dave.

I mean, the car had a glass out.

I'm talking about it relative to the current market

for these cars, seventy two thousand dollars.

Paul says, no, I know you're wrong, Dave.

You're wrong. You're wrong, Paul. You're wrong.

So what I was what I was thinking is

if you look behind me,

the what could have made this car better?

Right. So, you know, the the the photos, for sure,

could absolutely have been better.

The the wheels on it are like some tire rack specials

that I think Paul probably really likes those,

if I had to bet, you know, I honestly think

if even if they had knockoff cup ones on the car

and shot it a little bit better,

I think you probably could have netted

that car could have sold for eighty.

But I and it could have got rid of the front license plate.

Just take it off, guys, even if there's two holes,

it's better than having that front license plate on there.

But but going, you know, Dave,

there was a car that sold like three weeks ago.

It was a red C two ninety manual coupe.

Same thing. It was a car that was offered to me to sell.

I passed on it because in the receipt,

the most recent receipt said leaking from the heads in the case.

And it had a thirty five thousand

hour engine build looming like tomorrow.

And it went on bring a trailer.

It was probably a little pretty.

There's only sixty five thousand miles and it sold for eighty.

Like that car.

So, yes, initially, everyone,

when you looked at the closing comments, oh, good deal, good deal.

And I'm like, did anyone see the odometer?

And I'm the one who doesn't

give two shits about the odometer, but that does drive price.

In two hundred thousand miles,

the owner should be excited that that he got that kind of money.

I think so. I just think it could have been optimized more.

Agreed. Agreed.

My other one real quick.

This one's live now. It ends in two days.

This is a eighty nine nine forty four turbo.

Forty ish thousand miles.

The reason why I'm paying attention to this market

is because I'm listing one of these soon that has less miles on it.

The pictures of this car are great.

And honestly, right now, it's at fifty nine thousand dollars,

which is a lot of money for a lot of money for an eighty nine nine forty four

turbo if it was eighty eight, if it was an eighty.

But remember, we've had talked about that three fifty six,

where they had the great pictures that really look saturated in front of all the greenery.

I think that might be what people are are getting off on for this car as well,

because it evokes passion.

It reminds me people of sixteen candles, all those things.

But it's not even an eighty eight turbo s.

I know it's the same car, but eighty eight turbo s is sell for more money

because it says turbo s. So anyway, those are my two.

And just to see where this car closes,

if you're going to buy one of those cases, though,

you better buy the best one you can find for sure,

as they are problems, problems, problems, these cars to service.

And I see them here and we're seeing them.

You know, I'll see them on Facebook Marketplace or something like that

for fifteen, sixteen thousand dollars.

And those cars just got roached.

I mean, they unfortunately, they weren't well maintained, most of them.

But that one that behind you, Casey, just looks gorgeous.

I mean, the interior looks very pristine.

I mean, it's a good looking car.

I can see why this car is going to bring real money,

because it's a nice car, low mileage, good year.

Interior is fantastic, even though it's guards red,

but all these cars are guards red, even though it's got D 90s on it,

which I really don't like. That's a nice car.

They're not there. No, no, they're not the 90s.

Those are the club sports.

Yeah, so the eighty eight, eighty nine picture, but I'll take your word for it.

It's similar.

They're they're forged club sport wheels.

And trust me, when we did our restoration challenge,

I know all about how expensive nine forty fours can be and nine sixty eights.

But I just think this is this is a lot of money.

And I mean, who knows, maybe at the end of the auction,

people be scared away and won't want to go further than where it is.

But to me, it seems like a lot of money for that car.

Dave, why don't you go next?

Where are the two cars you're following in auction?

Well, this one sold was a no reserve sale.

And it's kind of back to Casey's point a little bit earlier

about what you could do to sell these cars.

And I know we've had conversations about how to present them

on various auction sites for to sell directly.

This is an eighty four three point two car.

And what I think is a fantastic color.

This car only sold in the low forties.

I want to say this car went for maybe forty two all in with fees and whatnot.

And for me, if I had this car,

this would have been a probably high sixties,

maybe even middle seventies kind of car.

It did the mileage was not terrible, terrible.

It just went way too cheap.

And what happened is it always happens.

The guy who's trying to sell it is doing it himself.

And he got sucked into a comment by somebody that blew him up.

What was the comment, Dave?

It was about rust in the car.

I think somebody was looking, trying to say, is this car rustier?

Does it have any issues with rust?

And the way the guy answered the question just didn't address the question

and kind of put the other guy on on his heels,

who had written a very long comment about whether, you know,

where to look for rust on these cars.

I don't think this car was rusty.

I think that car was perfectly fine.

I think it was a Connecticut car.

I could be wrong about that.

But I just think it's a great car that went way undervalued

and went way undervalued because the seller kind of bit on something

and it just became kind of a conflict in the sale.

And that just always kills the value on the car.

Let me ask the question.

I honestly don't know the answer.

So that was a galvanized car.

So if it's OK, so if that car was never stripped down to the metal

and it was, let's say the galvanization, why would that car rust?

I mean, other than if someone had botched up a part of the country

it was in, if it was up north in an area like central New York.

So the galvanization, the galvanization doesn't save it forever.

It just eventually won't save it forever for sure.

And then certain cars, like the battery box on these cars,

if the battery explodes a few times or gets overcooked or boils,

you'll be able to rust down right down through the left front fender

into the suspension.

There's spots along the door dams and so on that are very common to get rust

where the rear tires are throwing junk right at the rear part of the door there.

And it'll rust through there if you're not keeping the car clean underneath and so on.

I mean, these cars do rust, even the newer ones, for sure.

I've got an 85 right now that we had to just do a bunch of rust repair on

that I bought as a resale car and I'll have that car available.

But black, black car that this this was the first one I thought it sold

under what it should have sold for this car.

On the other hand, this is this is a I want to say what year?

Boris 98 last year, last year.

It's a last year lack with Boxster interior.

But I had to grab this picture because the pictures are what sold this damn car,

right? I mean, this car, I think all pointed me to this car, right?

And I think it's a fantastic car, right?

Any 993, even though, you know, Paul doesn't like 993s.

It's a good looking car, but I want to say three years ago,

this car sold for one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars.

Two thousand twenty two, I believe this car for sold one hundred and fifteen.

March of twenty one right before the covid took off.

It was the beginning is when it's sold.

And this car sold for two fifteen plus fees a few years later.

And now it is a great color combo.

The the interior is to die for.

I mean, I think the black with that Boxster red interior,

that is super, super car.

Now, some could argue and I know Paul and I talked about the idea

that that wing on the back of the car is not original to the car.

It got added back, you know, the proverbial wing conversation.

But I think it's a nice car.

Do I think it's a two hundred and fifteen thousand dollar car?

No, I probably don't.

And you know, there's more probably in the back story about it.

But somebody wanted to have it.

You know, somebody needed it for their, you know, the western look there.

The car was out of Arizona, Scottsdale.

Great looking car.

It's does anybody else get anxiety looking at that picture with that car by the.

Yeah, I'm getting I mean, honestly, it gives me anxiety.

I mean, it's I think it's an AI horse.

I hopefully I think everyone's just trying to out do their bring a trailer listing

so that they look cool and different in and going back to that that 993 really quick.

You know, if you mentioned Dave, it's got seventy five thousand miles.

I mean, like a 993 turbo, we sold last year ago,

twenty August twenty four, a seventy thousand mile 993 turbo

basalt black on black interior for a hundred and eighty thousand.

I mean, and going back to what Casey pointed out

and what I'm going to talk about is what's going on with the market.

We talked about this a little bit with the challenge to dolly earlier in the show.

I think Tim's in at first, you know, we saw like, oh, that one was an anomaly.

And now we're seeing things that are making this non anomaly.

That 993 C2S.

Oh, by the way, it had an accident on Carfax.

Seventy five thousand miles had aftermarket wheels had aftermarket spoiler.

Yeah, it's a C2S.

Like somebody just liked it.

Somebody looked at that and said two people like one.

Casey, which is all you need.

Casey, are you cool?

I know you had a.

I got I got I can do about another 15, 12, 15.

So let's let's let to Paul and and I do actually Paul,

since you are yammering about this already, let's do talk about that

because I personally of the things I pay attention to.

I there is an unusual spike of prices and setting aside that 360 CS

because I think we figured that one out, but there's an unusual spike

that's happening right now and you guys are all in the business.

And I'm just watching it from the sidelines on my billions of

bringing trailer auctions that I'm watching.

Shit is selling for a lot.

What's going on?

I mean, I'll do really quick.

This one twenty two thousand miles, seventeen nine nine one point two

Carrera S coupe, not a turbo, not a turbo S.

It is a manual.

It's got aftermarket wheels.

It's only got twenty two thousand miles.

It's a clean it's clean.

No, you know, no car facts issue.

It just sold for one fourteen plus fees.

That's one hundred twenty thousand dollars.

That's more than that.

That's that's about the same as the MSRP.

This one ninety what is it a ninety eight nine nine three.

Just Carrera cab Rena like like this is the worst color

combination arena red with classic gray gray top.

I mean, and it's also got the the supple

or should we call it scrotum leather package?

I mean, this car just seventeen inch wheels.

This car this car screams old man.

Palm Springs, put your captain's hat on.

You're driving this to the funeral home.

This is at least at least it's a manual.

It's not a tip from it's a manual.

And granted, it only had seventeen thousand miles.

It's sold for one hundred and thirty thousand before fees.

And by the way, nine and three cabs.

That is why I hate the cabs, especially.

Is that not the ugliest elevation side profile without the rear window?

I'm just happy.

The spoilers up really shows how fast it's going in that picture.

Yeah, I mean, it's probably broke because it's broken and won't go down.

And then and then when you look at exactly that, when you look at the top down,

I mean, it looks like a Barbie Volkswagen Beetle from the 70s,

like like that thing just sitting on there.

Anyway, I will stop shitting on the car.

But the bottom line is like we were talked about, Tim, is what is going on in the market?

This car oversold, this car oversold.

Casey's car is going to oversell or it didn't oversell.

You're not saying that.

So the point is I'm getting to it.

Yes, that is it didn't oversell.

Maybe that's the new market.

But then when you go to long hoods, no one cares.

Exactly. This is the fricking shift we're talking about.

There's something that's happening in the marketplace that I would love to.

Well, I'll say something to trigger probably is two out of three of you.

I think, frankly, it's people having a lot of confidence in the economy

and the new administration. Oh, baited, baited.

Who's going to be triggered?

Nobody. I think I think it has more to I think it has more to do with

the cost of the new cars between tariffs and everything else.

That's true.

And I also think it has a lot to do because because you see this shift

in the market, some G 50s, some 80s cars are doing OK.

But like Dave pointed out, it's a lot more volatile.

If there's anything that's a little bit of a hit, you know, a bad comment

or a little more miles like Casey's, the price maybe is a little bit softer.

But when it comes to two thousands and newer, I mean, Paul, do you remember?

Do you remember the first full throttle talk we did back in January?

And when we were talking about there was a lack of confidence,

people were not feeling optimistic and you and I were bemoaning back when

I don't remember his name, Greg, Greg was on the podcast.

And we're all saying there does seem to be some clouds on the horizon.

We couldn't quite put our fingers on it.

And now we're in the second half of the year and it does definitely feel different.

And like, again, I'm not just, you know, I'm not in the car business,

but I watch a lot of these car values and they're just they're skyrocketing.

And we're not going to see this is this is frontline observations.

But I bet you the wide the overall industry is not going to be

you know, talking about this probably for another 60 to 90 days.

But there definitely is something in the in the air.

I mean, and just to give you a point, the two, we have a 2013 manual

M030 sport suspension coupe coming up, just a C2S manual coupe.

Kind of kind of like this white one, but the previous generation 991.1.

I didn't even put a picture of it.

I've got just in preview mentions, I have over 30 people interested.

But that's an awesome car, Paul.

I was going to bring that.

It is. But meanwhile, we have this aubergine car coming

that is the car that I would love to have.

And the and the thing is I've had just a couple of people

who actually mentioned something about it.

So going back to, yes, the market is is shifting.

We're seeing stuff.

If I was consulting someone and they really wanted an early

and air cooled experience, they think early air cooled in nine six four

or a G 50 Carrera, I would just tell them, like, look at the long hood.

I think that you want analog air cooled.

That's it. But you think that market's going to come back?

What would cause that market to come back?

I don't think it is either.

I had an argument yesterday with a client who's got a 70,000

mile silver 71 T very, very nice with one repaint.

And he got it for a decent deal.

He wants to flip it and make money.

He's like, maybe I'll hold it for the market to come back.

And I had this argument with him.

I'm like, you're delusional.

I'm going, there's it doesn't have an S on the back.

It's not a soft window targa.

It's not original paint.

It's not a collector grade car.

If it's not a collector grade car, literally no one cares.

And you just go to 356 market.

That'll tell you exactly where the long hood market's going,

which hurts me because I love the cars.

Same. If you like the long hood, though, you can you can buy a newer car.

That's what's happening.

I think what singers done, they're back, they're creating a new or a million

dollars stuff. Well, I get it.

And if I built one, it wouldn't cost a million bucks.

But nonetheless, you can backdate a later car and get that look if you want

with better suspension, better handling, more power.

Paul, don't get me wrong. I agree.

What you're saying, I'm just I own one and I hate the idea of what what

the reason for that shift is.

Why? Because people seem to like the look.

They really still like the look of the long hood car.

Well, it's the most easy.

They don't want to learn to drive it.

Personally, I don't think they like the I love the look.

OK, but I don't think the new generation of buyers, again,

Casey's age and younger like the look because they're not on Instagram.

They're not being told that the next cool thing that's in.

I do not include myself in that generation.

Oh, I know. You know, I know, you're an old soul.

Definitely younger than me.

Yeah, I agree.

Casey, you have anything to contribute to what we're just yammering about?

I mean, I think it's all been said.

I mean, that aubergine car to me is, I mean, look at that thing.

I mean, gorgeous. And is that a tee, Paul?

Yeah, it's a CIS tee restored by Rhodes Scholars a long time ago.

I mean, come on.

What an amazing car.

As long as we check out the airplane, as long as it's got airplane gas in it,

that thing will run for forever until the oil starts coming out of it.

Alternative, maybe. Perfect.

Yeah, that's my alternative fuel, airplane gas.

I read the originals, originals, beautiful seats, very nice.

Well, I mean, even if they're not even if they're not original,

or cars, they are, they are the original factory sports seats

in not originally done in leather, but now restored in leather.

Let me ask this question to you guys.

Assuming that the market for those old cars never comes back

and you guys are all pushing up these sort of high mileage,

you know, very expensive cars to maintain.

Why the hell wouldn't you just buy a 992 tee, a 911 tee?

Why would you buy one?

The reasons that the reasons that we talked about last week.

I mean, I would, well, if we're going to go there,

I'd rather have a 991.2 tee.

But at that same point, I'd rather take that exact same money

and buy the world's nicest 997.

And if you're going to do that,

then you might as well buy the world's nicest 964.

And then you can get a super nice aubergine car

or like the car that that that Paul just showed.

I mean, I'd much rather have that.

It's all about that experience. Me too.

And selfishly, I'm afraid of what the market's doing

because I do want a 991.2 cruelty.

There's so little modern cars that interest me.

And then my fallback was a 991.1 manual

like we're getting ready to sell.

And I projected that that the 991.1 manual

that we're going to sell, which will be in the low 80s.

I projected a year ago that that car

should be in the mid 60s and it's not.

And I thought that the Carrera T,

which is now in the 110s, would be the 991.2

Carrera T would be in the mid 80s and it's not.

And selfishly, I'm bitter that I can't.

I'm not going to be able to buy one.

I want to respect your guys' time,

but let me just just close this loop.

So are we all in agreement or is it too soon to tell

that the market for these older cars

are definitely on the Ascension and maybe to the point

where they're going to be almost feeling boomish again?

Are we in agreement about that?

Or is it too soon to say older cars?

Yeah, usable older cars, yes.

I do believe from, I mean,

unfortunately, other than the one that Dave sent us,

which seemed like Dave, you should have bought that

gone through it and resold it.

I mean, honestly, that's the red one.

Oh, the blue one. No, the blue one.

No, that would have, I mean, just from that picture.

I mean, you put a set.

I just wasn't paying attention when the auction went off.

I would have because that's a hell of a price on that.

I've paid much more for a car like that in the in the past.

So would we get very good, usable cars?

Would we do we all agree that considering that the prices

do seem to be climbing rapidly into the time of year

where prices have traditionally fallen?

And again, it's too soon to tell it could be a viable answer

that we could see an absolute explosion in these old birds

come first quarter, second quarter, 2026.

Absolutely. That's what it feels like to me.

It's something weird happening that has not happened.

It's happening in real estate, too.

You know, it's something's weird happening in the economy

that I would really love to try to understand.

Its interest rates are falling, but not that much.

What's going on? I don't know.

Who knows? So listen, guys, why don't we wrap?

I had a lot of fun. Hopefully you guys did too.

So listeners, viewers, thank you.

I don't know if any of you guys care or pay attention,

but this has been the number one automotive podcast

in the United States for quite a few days in a row.

And it's because of you.

It's all your support.

The fact that we know a lot of you guys are sharing the podcast.

It's just fantastic.

We clearly love doing it,

but I'll tell you the one thing that would make it better

is your participation.

If you've got any questions, if you've got any comments,

if you want to have to, you know, move the direction this way

or the conversation this way or that way, drill down more on this,

less on that. And by the way, you cannot say drilled on less on

Ferraris. That's not an option.

Message us an Instagram. We'd really love it.

And we are going to continue to do this podcast

because we really enjoy doing it.

If you want to be in contact with any of these guys,

Dave, you got to be in contact.

Look, I'll just say this straight up.

If you have an old Porsche, even if you're on the West Coast,

it's going to cost you less than four grand to ship it to Dave.

He'll be able to start working out within like less than six months.

And I've been to his shop and I promise you some of the best work

I've ever seen on Porsches and I've restored, you know,

more than I'd like to remember, are being done at his shop.

And he can do high end restor rods.

He had the silver restor rod that was for a famous NASCAR driver.

And he had a carbon fiber roof grafted on it.

It was beautiful.

Underside, oversight. Send it to Dave. Message him.

And he said I can build a Singer S car for less than Singer can.

Having seen his product, I like what he builds better.

I'm just going to say it.

It more true to the design.

Well, that's thank you.

Okay. And it's Casey, obviously, I mean, Kate,

if you've got a collection of cars, if you want to sell a car,

personally, if I had cars to sell, I would have to,

I'd have to have, frankly, Casey or Dave Duke it out,

whoever's going to give me the lowest commission.

And because both of these guys are great.

And Casey maintains some of the best badass collections.

Hopefully he can get permissions from his, some of his,

his customers to at least put up pictures of some of the cars.

And Paul, well, frankly, I don't know why you'd want to do

business with them. So.

No, I Paul, good question, but Paul, the same thing.

So you guys listen, lean into these guys.

They're some of the nicest car guys I know,

some of the most trustworthy car guys I know.

Hopefully you're getting to know them as well.

Thank you for all your great support of the podcast.

And really, if give us some suggestions,

comments, reviews, whatever you got for us,

we're ready for it.

God bless you guys and have a fantastic week.

Thank you.

See you guys.

Porsche Supercar Smackdown, Is 'Real" Car Journalism Dead & Trends That Need Go (Farting Exhausts, Homage Liverys, etc)

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