Preventing Veteran Suicide with the Firearms Research Institute (Part 2)

If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred two seven three talk that's one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five, or text home two seven four to one, dash seven four to one. You know, all these years on American

Chopper, we've we've been big supporters of the military, every branch, police, firemen, anyone who's really putting their neck out there for this country.

And I'd like to just bring people back for a second to understand where that started for me. I remember when I was in high school and uh,

they had a recruiter come in and he was telling kids about, you know what the military was like. I can't remember if it was Air Force or

a Navier army, but it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is is

I remember listening to him and being really intrigued. But then I remember thinking,

you know, we had a steel business. You know, I was

working for my father. I remember thinking it's just not for me. And

in the same moment, now this is in high school, in the same moment, my very second thought and it came up real quick, and I said to myself, well, if you're not going to go, Okay, you better support the military for the rest of your life. You better do

things to honor them and respect them and support them. And it just that's

what it was like, all in one moment, and that's when I was younger. Fast forward American Chopper coms and I will say, I don't think

we've I don't think we've done any tribute more than we have to the military.

I mean we have the pow Mia bike. We did. I mean

we did the jet bike was the first episode. We did a bike for

Geico, for the US Armed Forces, we did the Comanche bike back in the day. I think we did five National Guard bikes. And I'm not

saying that to brag about how much we've done for the military, because we owe them so much, and it's you know, we can never do enough for how they sacrifice for our country. And so this conversation we're going to

have today about ways we can prevent veteran suicide is near and dear to my heart, and I think you're going to find this extremely interesting and maybe one of the most important conversations I'm going to have this year. We now have

a doctor William Boo Zang here he is the leading researcher for the Firearms Research Institute, and and and he's going to be the guy kind of compiling all this information for this organization. So, uh, doctor William Boo Zang,

We're happy to have you here, and I really want to know tell us about yourself, just to give us a little background so we understand. Thanks,

Paul's It's been an evolution for me in so far as I'm a teacher by training, I'm an educator. Started with teaching high schooling English, and

as I got further into my career started working with college and faculty roles and then administrative roles, currently working for a small college, Catholic College in Boston.

But in addition to that also working with doctoral students. We're working on

doctors of education. And oftentimes these people are what we call scholar practitioners,

okay, who are really looking at what kind of research am I going to do at the site, What kind of research am I going to do about best practice which is going to impact people directly, whether it's impacting our kids, whether it's impacting adults, whether it's impacting marginalized or sign particular populations which really deserve a lot more help. Okay, interesting, So that that's you

know, generally what I do in so far as research, so I would say educator first and foremost also a researcher, always looking for solutions to some problems that we have as a society. So your research is obviously it's based

on is it always from a humanistic standpoint like what this is? Or is

the research varying or you know, that's that's an interesting question. I like

to you know, the difference between what I do versus what a psychologist is doing with clinical research, and that we do have a psychologist on the team, but most concerned with with attitudes, with impressions, really what makes people tick around certain issues and how we can better approach our societal problems in order to help them. Okay, so what's the practical application of that concerning the

Firearms Institute, Like what are the what is the measure or the function that you'll be applying to help this thing become what it needs to be. I

guess is the question absolutely? I think you know, obviously it's still a

pervasive problem for us in so far as suicide particular populations like veterans, and we don't support them enough. And that's my interest. A former student buy

and approached me about this project or I tell me about and I said, you know, I want in. I want in. This is something where

we're going to make a direct impact, as opposed just being involved in a study and sort of saying, Okay, let's explore this more. We're looking

at a direct impact through SNAPPERS work and through the entire Firearms Research Institute in so far as not only looking at hopefully really saving lives through the work that we're doing with these interventions, but also looking at attitudes and having a better understanding of you know, what goes on sort of you know, mentally emotionally as people, How can we better support them leading up to really these catastrophic

events? Super interesting? So, so why is the education, uh,

why why is education a key component to suicide prevention? What would you say

about I think that we're woefully as a society, woefully under educated about this particular issue. I think I agree there is a stigma around us, especially

for guys, but also for men and women, and that for some reason, depression or for that matter, any kind of of mental illness, anything sort of on that spectrum, suicidal thoughts it's all Uh, it's all stigma, a weakness weakens weakness. No one wants to talk about it. And

and we we spoke. When we spoke, me and Snapper, people aren't

talking about this. It's a it's a major problem that no one wants to

talk about, either before it happens or after. No wants to talk about

it. And it's really a shame because people are suffering and ultimately making a

really drastic decision. And that's what I love so much about this is because

this is like its function. You know, it's tangible, right, It's

not the actual action that's going to take place here where you can actually relinquish your guns willingly right and get them back when you're feeling better. I mean,

it's such a tangible, functional process. And I think you would agree

that that's what makes it different from everything out there. And I guess that

I would defer to you. But so, what is it in your mind

with everything you see out there that is so different about what this Firearms Research Institute is all about. First of all, it's about personal agency and the

fact that we are empowering people to make their own decisions around this. And

in fact, when one does take inventory and sort of says, Okay, things aren't good for me right now and I'm not feeling all right. They

do have a resource able to turn it over, get the gunlock and basically say, you know, this is taking a time out for now, okay, until I can sort of resolve what's going on with me, and then well we'll approach and we'll explore it again. But having that kind of agency

and being able to you know, that's empowering, able to make that decision for yourself. Sure, and I love the safe place aspect, right,

especially with veterans. You know, you're dealing with people who they do not

want anything taken from them, right. This is a big factor, right.

They don't want they want to voluntarily be involved, and that's the only way it's going to work. And it seems like this function is creating a

safe haven where they can trust this situation to be able to relinquish something for a period of time until they are feeling themselves again. I think I have

a few anecdotes about that, and I sort of think about the way we misunderstand as a society what goes on. I think about a friend that I

grew up with who actually ended up on disability or actually getting a discharge from the army after being involved in some of the chemicals with nine to eleven, and found himself later on. This was really a traumatic event for him.

Found himself later on at a at a public campus in the South where he went into the mental health center and said, you know what, I'm really concerned about some health self harm right now, and they more or less put the campus on lockdown because they've they heard this veteran is a harm and again part of the stigma. Part of the stigma if you're branded with that,

Okay, do we know how to support these people in the right way?

And again him having the resources or her having the resources and being able to take advantage of something like what we're setting up is ideal. Wow, that's

amazing, and it's crazy how quick that happens. And it just shows more

of a reason for what this institute's all about, you know, because people then get mislabeled. They're just hurt. He's just hurting, right, he

went through something and he was there. So the thing about the military,

and we've talked about this there there, they're where we don't want to be a lot of the time, right, they're protecting our country and our liberties and our freedoms, right, And so you get a situation like that where they have a bad experience chemically or otherwise. Right there, he was whatever

happened there at nine to eleven, and it was altering how he was seeing things. And instead of there being a situation of embrace and some functional Okay,

we're going to get you through this, he's seen as a threat.

Now that's maybe that might be isolated, but it's just it's just a case in point. This is this is what we're dealing with right now. In

other words, there's not a lot of function out there concerning these things.

It's and we talked about this, it's more more postvention than prevention. It's

like, Okay, when things go bad, then we'll figure out how to handle this instead of preventing it from the beginning. And I think this has

a measure of being able to prevent some of this stuff. Look, there's

no you're never going to be everywhere all the time, but I think that because of the tangible practical application, it's a function that could really have an impact. Absolutely absolutely. And I was just talking to one of the other

researchers. Doug Floor on my way here and talking a little bit about what

he finds most striking in the statistics from the last decade, and he did mention that when we look at suicides, about half of them involve firearms.

Okay, because there really is no on ringing that bell, and it is pretty darn accurate in many cases. Sure, absolutely, And so when you

have something which is sort of one hundred percent, you know, effective in this catastrophic events, this is the very reasonable what we need some resources and order so that I could explore other avenues and I can look and seek the supports that are out there for me. One Call Concepts is an official sponsor

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And all I could say is call eight one one before you dig, you know. And with the military too, it just seems like from the

research I've done, they're they're prone. You know, if you're in the

military, they all know how to use firearms, They know their weapons, they're intimately involved with them. They quite often use them to protect themselves in

a situation of wartime or or or or be on the ready with it.

So they're very familiar. And I know quite often when it comes to suicide,

it's the it's the choice that a lot of veterans will take. It's

the it's the route they'll take for suicide. They know that the fail the

failure is pretty minimal, you know, and it's going to do what it's supposed to do, you know. And that's why I love the idea that

hey, listen, you're feeling this way, there's no shame in what you're going through, right, We all go through things at times. But here,

if you're going through this, then here, you know, this is a safe place for you to park this thing until you get the help you need, you know, and it gets you to the other side of it.

Because here's the thing people need to understand, especially people in that position.

I've dealt with things in my life with anxiety and depression in my past, and I know you can get to a pretty hopeless place. But people

have to understand that there is hope that just because they feel the way they feel, other people have felt that way before. If people get in that

position, they think they're the only one, honestly, and they need to understand that it's for a season, okay, and if they can hand that gun over and start to make the practical application of okay, this is what I'm gonna do to get myself help, and there is help out there, they'll come out of the other side of it better for it. Right.

So that's what I love about this component. Otherwise, I don't know of

anything out there. I know there's help. I know there's some great organizations

for sure, but no one's taking this approach to say, hey, this is safe for you, and and and really you know a great option for a period in time in which you have to get yourself healthy. You know.

Frankly, I don't think there's ever enough resources, and I think it really does take a mosaic of resources. We're not going to say, well,

the veterans, they are the VA's problem. The vas UH does a

terrific job. It talked to a lot of veterans who really love their services

and utilize them fully. But it's really more of a team approach. You

know, you, you and I everybody else. We have a social obligation.

Absolutely were the people who served and are we doing our part in so far as supporting them? All? Right, you're right about that, And

that's my that's my conviction right in this whole, in this whole aspect of things. And yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's our, it's

our, it's our obligation. Really, I mean, we should be we

should be filling in the gaps in these areas, in these in the free areas where yes there's organizations that are doing some things, but we need more of this kind of thing, right to be helping out people in this situation all day long. Because we talked about it earlier, it's like, if

we all do this right, and we all put this effort in and we save one life, it's worth it. Even if it takes us the rest

of our lives and we're invested, you know, it's it's worth it.

So I mean that aspect of things in and of itself is I mean, you know, it's it's just worthy. It's a worthy cause, you know,

absolutely, I think that. You know, it's not only an individual

as well. It's it's about families, it's about it's about parents, it's

about spouses, it's about children are really having the ripple effects and uh, you know, but subsequently we all have to team around these people that are having crises and figuring out better ways to keep them out of harm's way if they're not feeling at their best. Yeah, you know, I was thinking

just now when you're saying that, I think, like, so this could be a great avenue for enough people to be educated in where a wife might say to her husband, hey, honey, why don't you think about sending your gun out. Here's the information on it. It's no obligation. You

send it there. When you want it back, you get it back.

But I know you haven't been feeling yourself or or vice versa. A husband

telling her wife that, or maybe a father telling a son that. Like,

it could be that kind of community, because you're right, you know, when someone takes their life, the whole family's affected, especially a father who has kids. People don't understand why it happens, and it happens very

quickly. But you know that's the thing. This could be a thing where

people can encourage people, Hey, this is proven, it's safe. Here's

the measure in which it takes. Print it out, put it in a

box, ship it, and when you're ready, you call on it.

You know, I think that's that's wildly It almost seems like a simple idea.

And I know we talked about there's a big function to it, but man, how practical is that? Absolutely? You know absolutely well. The

fact that we're having these kind of conversations on your platform folks who are interested in sort of what you do or tuning in, you know, if give somebody a different impression on what might be out there. And it's not always

an all or nothing proposition. We need to make some compromises and we need

to figure out, as I said, a team approach to helping people with crisis. You know, it's better year. Would you consider sort of the

pandemic, the increased isolations going on, It's too soon to tell, and so far as how this has really impacted people's mental health, but I think again some rippled effects for again the kind of heightened anxiety which has gone on over the past fourteen months. Yeah, so I was going to ask you

that. So do you think do you think the pandemic has made matters more

problematic in the area of suicide just in general and even you know, veteran suicide and particular, is this is there an increase that we're seeing. It

has all the signs and so far as you know, employment instability, economic instability, a lot of families who are feeling sort of the effects of this still, you know, as people are trying to get back to work, and just a general anxiety around health and things like that. Things like that

are for somebody who's already learning to manage their anxiety and their depression having something like this compounding, and it's significant. And sure, we're all in this

together, but I think it affects some people more significantly than others. And

it's really nice to say, Okay, let's flip the switch now and go back to normal. We're all vaccinated, right, but not everybody's ready.

Not everybody's there, absolutely not. Yeah, I can see that because you

know, anxiety and depression has a way of kind of making people very homebodied, right. You don't want to be in large crowds. That's a normal

function of people who are in that position. You don't want to be out

and about, and you know, so Ovid, I can see how it just when we were all locked down, It just lends itself very well to people who might be prone to that type of behavior to be dealing with those kinds of situations. You know. But I do hope coming out of this

thing, these kinds of organizations like what we're talking about here with the Firearms Research Institute, this is a perfect It might be perfect timing for this, and we talked about it. It's not happening fast enough, right because every

day people are we're losing people, right. But I do think that it's

probably happening faster than a lot of these organizations will come up. And I

know that there's some grant money that's being weighted on, and so I think it's really just going to be about how much money could be raised and how it gets applied. I know it could be applied pretty quickly, which is

good. That's exciting about it. You know. The other thing that is

really exciting for me about what Snappers put together is the fact that we can see some impact right away and that it's not about well, it's all rounding on this one RT. It really is going to be a matter of uh

figuring out both public and private interests, figuring out sort of uh those interests from government and sort of foundation funds as well as individual interests, uh, in order to really get to work on, uh, you know, on setting this up, and once it's set up, really looking at sort of uh, you know, a better exploration of attitudes of where people are at when they're when they're turning in firearms and figuring out how best to support them both on the front end of this as well as in the on the back

end when they return to them. That's great. Well, let me ask

you a question, So where do people go for this? I mean,

if if, if people want to learn more about uh more about this stuff, where would you where would you suggest that they go? I would love

for folks to go to the fire Firearms Research Institute dot org dot org page that that we do have. That's a great starting point in so far as

uh the work that we're doing and sort of the people involved in that.

In addition to that, you know, if immediately people need help, they should be called the National Suicide Prevention Hotline. And when eight hundred and two

seven three talk, they get text home to seven four to one, seven four to one. And that's great because immediately you have somebody if you don't

have anybody to talk to it right now, these are people that immediately you talk to, that are trained and that are ready to go for you.

And again, it's about getting you through those critical moments. Okay, you

know those those of us with anxiety depression, you do have these critical moments and what are your supports, what do you call those compensatory measures? What

are those compensatory measures? And how do you weather that's storm? Sure you

come out the other end of it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah,

yeah, because really it takes just one bad moment that might just be a fleeting moment. It might be the only moment. Sure, and if you

know so, that's really interesting. And this is where the support comes in,

even I think from a personal standpoint, family standpoint, to be there for each other in situations like that. I think it's really important to pay

attention to what's going on with siblings, with parents at any age really because it's people miss it, you know, because people get busy. But I

think it's really important to make it your business to know how everybody's doing.

I really do, because I think that's probably the best preventative on an overall is to catch it person a person, family member to family member, friend a friend. Spend the time. If you think someone's going through something,

speak up, try and get them to talk about if you know they've been through something, and especially with everything everybody's been through in the in the in the past, you know, fourteen months, I do think it's it's critically important that we that we show some compassion, and I think I think right now selflessness is in high tom. It's a thing that we should really start

doing, essentially putting others before ourselves. That'll put you in a thought position

of being there for others, and I think that would be a great you know, I know, and this is just I think this is something that I'm dealing with right now. Is this idea of really, when you see

someone you know, I always thought I always think this, and maybe this is off topic, but when people are doing something or acting a certain way and some people think that guy's this or that, I always think, well, why is he that way? There's something that's happened that is causing these

behaviors. Sure, and so I think sometimes if we and we see this

in families, people are angry, they're lashing out, whatever it is.

Sometimes if you can get to the core of what it is, right, it can alleviate some of what's going on. And so I just think,

I guess my point is from person to person, on a humanistic standpoint, we should I think we should be a little bit more sensitive to what people are dealing with or going through. I absolutely agree. You know, I'm

not a trained clinician. I assume you aren't either. No, but you

know it's not like we're a much psychiatrists here or something. But uh,

you know what we offer our skills, the way we can, we contribute in the ways that we can, and sometimes they're just a listening here.

You know, I'd much rather call and I've done it before, I call up a friend and say, you know, are you really okay? You

know this, this has made me worry that this, this, and this happened. And I'd far rather overreact, you know, with with a friend,

with a loved one or a neighbor, rather than just completely just turn a blind eye to it. Absolutely, yeah, agreed. Well great,

Hey, I thank you for you know, for coming on here. It's

invaluable what you're bringing to the table. Uh. And I think this is

going to be amazing and and and I said it to a snapper, We're gonna have you guys back for sure, because I'm looking forward to following the progress of this and seeing the good that it's going to do. And I

think once this thing gets going, I think it's going to be a big game changer. And I think it's going to start to prevent suicide, which

is the whole game, the whole name of the game. I think it's

a it's I'm excited about what's coming down the road. Excellent. Well,

I really appreciate this. It's an honor sort of meeting. You really glad

to sort of have this kind of attention to what we're doing, sure, and really look forward to making an impact, making a difference here. Yeah,

thank you man. Thanks again. I can't say enough thank you for

listening to the Paul Junior Podcast. You can find Paul online as Paul Cuttle

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