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Racing Beyond Limits: Torsten Gross's Journey with Hand Controls and Adaptive Technology
Racing Beyond Limits: Torsten Gross's Journey with Hand Controls and Adaptive Technology
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About this episode
Torsten Gross shares his inspiring journey as a C6 quadriplegic who races cars using hand controls. He discusses the significance of National Mobility Awareness Month and how adaptive technology allows individuals with disabilities to experience the thrill of racing. Gross highlights his work with Pennzoil and the Just Hands Foundation, which aims to empower disabled drivers. The conversation also touches on his unique experiences teaching NASCAR champion Joey Logano to drive with hand controls, emphasizing the equality that racing provides for all participants, regardless of physical ability.
Topics:
adaptive technology
hand controls
national mobility awareness month
just hands foundation
racing experiences
joey logano
quadriplegic racing
driving equality
What does it take to race cars at top speeds when you can't use your legs? Meet Torsten Gross, a C6 quadriplegic who has shattered barriers and mastered the art of racing using hand controls. Join us as Torsten shares his remarkable journey, from collaborating with Pennzoil for National Mobility Awareness Month to teaching NASCAR champion Joey Logano how to drive using hand controls. Discover how motorsports provide an equal playing field for everyone and learn about Torsten's foundation, Just Hands, which empowers wheelchair users to feel the exhilaration of racing.
But that's not all—this episode delves into the fascinating intersection of adaptive technology and racing formats, exploring how hand controls are making a mark in everything from road racing to ATVs. We also shine a spotlight on Houston's vibrant auto enthusiast community, featuring local businesses like ProAm Auto Accessories and events like Caffeine and Chrome, Family Cruise-In, and All-Houston Corvette Day Rally. Plus, get the scoop on the upcoming Freedom Fest car show in Richmond, Texas. Whether you're a racing aficionado or simply inspired by stories of overcoming adversity, this episode promises a ride you won't forget!
Be sure to subscribe for more In Wheel Time Car Talk!
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Porsche Cayman
"...o I, uh, I, I race cars. Uh, I race a 981 porsche cayman and I track at lime rock. Uh, well, I track all a..."
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
"...t would be like having me use hand controls in my Corvette. Yeah, yeah, it's a."
Select text to request an explanation
Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30-minute mini version of the In Wheel Time Car Show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am Central.
I'm going to use this intro again because it was so good and so appropriate.
Help yourself, if that's okay with you guys.
You wrote it, I know and I want to do it again.
Windstream and Kinetic didn't have a flatulence episode this morning and you get to see, hear and be a part of the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show today, coming to you from the Sugar Shack Studios just outside Houston, coming up, we talk to well, we talk to a guy by the name of Torsten Gross and we're going to get involved in the National Mobility Awareness Month video sponsored by.
Well, I'll tell you about all that coming up here in just a minute and we're going to talk to him about that, and later on we're going to have the cruise-in calendar and we're also going to talk about a couple of the stories making automotive news headlines Howdy, and we're also going to talk about a couple of the stories making automotive news headlines Howdy, along with Mike out of this world, mars.
We always need Jeff Zekin.
I'm Don Armstrong, glad that you could join us on the last half hour of our live show 1030 here in the Houston Texas area Central Time Zone.
So wherever you're listening or watching us, we thank you very much for doing that.
I wonder what time it is right now in Brazil, what time is it in Copenhagen?
What time is it in Moscow?
We've got viewers, listeners and followers in all those cities, and so it's like I don't even know how to say hey, it's in the morning here.
Yeah, that's you.
Know it's in the morning here.
Yeah, that's it.
It's in the morning here, that's it.
Okay.
Joining us now is torsten gross, and he joins us because we're going to talk about national mobility awareness month and, obviously, us being a car talk show.
We're're mobile, but not everybody is.
Those are those folks that have handicaps.
Torsten, good morning.
I'm not going to try to get into all of that.
I'm going to let you lead the discussion here.
It's great to have you with us.
Thank you very much.
Thank you guys for having me.
I appreciate it.
Okay, so tell us what Pennzoil is doing and the universal joy of driving and National Mobility Awareness Month.
Tell me a little bit about you first.
Yes, I'm a C6 quadriplegic in a wheelchair.
What is?
it.
Wait a minute, because see to me a C6 is a Corvette with a certain number of years C6.
So tell me what a C6 quadriplegic is.
All right, a C6 means that I broke my sixth vertebrae down in my neck, so we've got eight vertebrae in our neck and then we've got, I think, 12 in our back, and so that means I have four limbs compromised, so meaning my hands right, so one, two, and then both my legs three, four, wow.
Wow.
Well, I'm glad that you're here with us and talking to us today, and I see that your shirt is just hands.
I like that.
So tell us how you got involved in this organization and tell me about it.
Yeah, so I, uh, I, I race cars.
Uh, I race a 981 porsche cayman and I track at lime rock.
Uh, well, I track all around the country but lime rock park is my, my home track.
And, uh, you know, I I got introduced to penswell and, um, you know, my first job with penswell was I was in a couple commercials with with them about a year or year and a half ago, and the bigger our relationship became, you know, they really believe in what I'm doing and what my foundation is doing, which we can talk about in a moment.
They then got me together with Joey Logano and the joke always, how do you teach the two-time NASCAR champion how to drive?
Well, don't let him use his legs.
So we actually taught.
I taught him how to use hand controls at Charlotte Motor Speedway and that's what we recorded.
Oh my gosh, I cannot even imagine such a thing.
I mean, that would be like having me use hand controls in my Corvette.
Yeah, yeah, it's a.
What's interesting, though, is that your your hand eye coordination is faster than your eye foot coordination, so I actually can teach anybody how to drive with hand controls faster than you would actually think.
It's more more intuitive than one would actually think.
It's more intuitive than one would actually believe.
So, yeah, it's fun, and you know you would assume Joey Logano would.
Well, you wouldn't assume anything.
Most people take it slow.
Most people take it slow.
On the second lap, joey's going full throttle with hand controls.
I'm just going.
Yeah, I guess he is two-time nascar champion.
He knows how to drive, so it was a great experience no kidding.
So tell me now about the organization and what you're trying to uh promote here yeah, I appreciate that.
So, uh, you know, driving with hands is actually the uh and and.
Racing cars is the only thing for disabled people, the only sport that exists that makes us equal to able-bodied people.
You and I will never do a marathon in the same division.
You and I will never ski in the same division.
You and I will never play basketball in the same division.
However, race car driving the car doesn't care that I'm in a chair.
You don't know that I'm in a chair unless you saw me in the paddock before I got in the car.
Right, so it makes us 100 equal and to me, that is something.
Once I experienced that, once I found that I had to share that with other people, so I started the just hands foundation and that it gets people who are in chairs, who use hand controls, behind the wheel of track cars.
How exciting.
I mean, what a great idea, what a great thing.
I had a good friend, rodney Rodriguez, who's a track announcer for lots of small racetracks around Houston and San Antonio, austin, that sort of thing, and he was talking about a new event that they've got out on our 3-8 mile asphalt circle track here and that's the Everyday Guys Car Race.
So you can bring whatever car you drive every day and put it out on the racetrack with you know a dozen of your friends and get out there and go for it.
I'm thinking you you could be out there and nobody would ever know, but you're racing with hand controls.
Yeah.
And whooping them.
I won my division in SCCA Regionals a couple weeks ago.
Congratulations I think it surprised everybody at the Lime Rock race.
Because it surprised everybody when they saw me get out in my wheelchair going, Huh, didn't see that coming.
They saw me get out in my wheelchair going, huh, didn't see that coming.
But you know what?
At the end of the day, people always ask well, are you going to do a wheelchair league or something like that?
I'm like no, the whole point is that I'm just as competitive to anybody, it doesn't matter who they are, and so I'm not going to start my own league.
I'm going to go make people feel bad about themselves.
Whether I'm going to go make people feel bad about themselves, whether they can use their legs or not, you know, by beating them.
Were you into racing before you lost the ability to use your legs.
No, so this is my 30th year in a chair and I've only been on track for three years.
Oh wow, and for some reason I guess I'm good at it.
I mean, I don't know if you know anything about Lime Rock, but I'm doing a 57.7
around Lime Rock, so I'm hauling butt.
No fear.
It's good and it's just something that I picked up quickly and I love it.
So I'm at the track at least once or twice a week.
I live seven miles away from Lime Rock, so I'm there a lot.
But for you guys, I've done COTA as well.
I did an endurance race at Koda.
That was a thrill.
So, yeah, I'm getting around go ahead.
I'm trying to visualize how you would do that on track.
My father's van has hand controls in it and I drive it every once in a while and you know the braking and everything by hand and I'm trying to imagine on a track trying to do the steering, braking, accelerating all of it.
I mean, you said earlier your hands are a lot quicker, but just in my mind I'm trying to visualize you doing that.
Yeah, so with my left hand I'm steering and with my right hand it's turn for gas and push for brake.
Now I chose specifically a Porsche or you can choose a BMW too because they've got dual clutch transmissions right.
So Porsche has a PDK and a BMW has a DCT, so that actually makes you as fast as somebody that shifts manually right, because of how smart they are.
However, there are still two parts at Lime Rock and different places where I want to be able to shift.
So I'm working with a hand control company called Mobility Innovations.
They design everyday hand controllers.
These hand controllers have been around for 30 years Little innovations here and there, but generally speaking, about 30 years Right.
I have now worked with them to be able to shift with my fingers.
So we have an upshift and a downshift, so I've moved the paddles from behind the wheel to my hand controls.
Now they also work behind the wheel too, so that when I'm doing a team race, an able-bodied person can hop in the car and still use paddles behind the wheel, but I'm able to shift just with my fingers.
Wow, Pretty cool, right, Very cool.
I mean I would be really proud and really motivated to further this whole thing and let everybody else that has a disability to take part in all of this.
I mean what a great thing that you're doing.
I appreciate that.
We have a car at Spa, we have a car in Nürburgring, we have a car at Charlotte Motor Speedway and one at Lime Rock, and we are looking now, this year, because of Pennzoil's support of us, we now have the ability to grow this and we're looking for arrive looking for arrived drives all around the country to bring in control singers.
I think what would surprise you is that it uh, it takes an hour to put one in and once it's been put in, it only takes one minute to put it in and take it out.
So what I mean by that is we're not making a car, just a handicapped car right for disabled drivers, but rather you guys can drive the car and then, if I want to hop in, it takes one minute to put it in.
After the initial installation the initial installation takes about a couple hours, kind of like a seat right A seat takes a couple hours to put in for the first time, but then you can swap out seats fairly easily because they've been put in for the first time.
Right, you won't be able to see this, but we're going to show our video followers this video that Joey Logano has done on your behalf, and I'm sure that you were involved in it.
So we're going to play that and you're more than welcome to use it.
You've seen it a dozen times.
You know what the video is going to be like, so you just go ahead and continue talking and tell us how all of this works and the importance of this video for everybody.
Yeah, I think you know the idea of mobility awareness is not just for disabled people, is not just for disabled people.
I see my role and I see car racing and track driving as an exercise in creativity anyway.
So you might be fat, short, skinny, tall, right, like there's the configurations of one's body, how strong you are, right, all that kind of stuff it what type of driver you are.
It lends itself to different setups and, as you guys know very well, like it's about creativity, you don't just kind of say, well, this is what a car should be and and stop, right, it's what kind of driver are you.
And that's what I loved working with joey.
You know, we we talked about how different setups are different.
Like, let's think about nascar.
You look at a, a NASCAR and it looks like a regular car, but the physicality of driving that is fundamentally different than driving any type of regular car.
Right, it's really strenuous, and so the video you guys are watching is me showing him how I do it right, specifically in how I turn for gas and push for brake.
I do it right, specifically in how I turn for gas and push for brake.
And you know, I just want to encourage and motivate anybody, disabled or not, to just say what does my drive look like, right?
How do I make it work for me and get creative with it, right?
There's no right or wrong answer.
That's what I love about all this.
Have you done any drag racing?
I have not, I have not, I have not.
My wife has kind of said you know we get to have one race car, let's stick with one hobby.
Drag racing becomes a second hobby.
Right, it becomes very expensive, very fast.
Yeah.
Reason that I say that is because I'm sure that there are lots of folks in your condition that go to the drag race that would love to learn about this technology, all forms of racing.
All forms of racing.
That's what's really great about the hand controls they can be transferable into an ATV, they can be put into a drag car, they can be put into an off-road car and, for me, a road race car right.
So there, it's transferable.
So anything with two pedals, you're right, or even three pedals, to a degree um, can be used by us.
Right.
And so just hands is starting on the road tracks, right, like coda, like sebring, know those types of tracks.
But the goal is to expand and get into any place where you just use your hands.
I did want to mention to everybody that if you want to see and hear the actual video, you can go to Pennzoil's YouTube channel.
It's on there.
Is there another place that we can go and see the video?
I think that's the main place to go.
It's pretty easy to find because once you get into the Pennzoil YouTube channel then you can put your name in.
That's how we found it and, boom, it went straight to it.
Yeah it's great and it's a lot of fun.
It actually shows our characters as well.
Right, we had a good time doing it.
Yeah, I can tell.
I could tell by the video that they edited into this piece that you look like you're really having a good time.
I mean, I get to track with the two-time NASCAR champion, and how great is that right?
There's nothing better.
Yeah, how is Joey Logano as a person?
You know one of the things that I was on the drag racing tour for a while, the pro drag racing tour, and let me tell you something it's a different level.
When you get to a professional, anything the competitor inside of a human being becomes over, over achieving, shall we say, and it it's a different thing that if you've never been exposed to it, you're going.
Wait a minute, that's not just an ego thing, it's get out of my way, let me do this and I'll.
I will kick everybody's butt it.
Yes, I'm going to end that and say and they're, uh, willing to, and they want to listen and they want to learn what I was really.
You know, what was interesting about Joey is that he, he wanted to try new things, he wanted to experience something different, and I think that just makes somebody a better driver, right?
I think that just makes somebody a better driver, right.
Whether you're learning something that is 100% applicable to what you do or tangential to what you do, it's still giving you a different perspective of something.
Right Now, yes, on lap two, he's already full throttle with hand controls where I went, because I was in the car with him and I'm going okay, I don't know the brake pressures yet.
But whatever, let's go and do it.
But at the same time I could hear him taking in what I was saying and applying that as well, and I think that just makes somebody a better driver, a better person, a better, you know, overall rounded person.
Well, listen, it is great and an honor to have you on the show with us this morning.
We sure do.
Thank you very much for joining us.
We appreciate it.
All the great information, national Mobility Awareness Month Pennzoil, very much involved in this, torsten, we appreciate it.
Again, thank you and best of luck to you.
Stay in touch with us, especially if you come into Texas.
Let us know.
I Best of luck to you.
Stay in touch with us, especially if you come into Texas.
Let us know I certainly will Thank you guys for the time, and I hope you have a wonderful day you too.
We certainly will Thank you, sir, you bet.
All right.
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Call them at 713-781-7755.
Want to feel good about something special you did for someone special In Real Time?
And the original Loopy Tortilla group of Tex-Mex restaurants have joined together to help a very worthy cause God's Garage, a Christian-based 501c3 charity.
We know there are lots of places and organizations out there where you can donate a car, truck or SUV, but we're asking you, our car enthusiast family, to consider donating to God's Garage.
Visit godsgarageorg and learn about its mission, the women that have been helped, how each one is screened and about their Restore you program.
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By the way, I did want to remind you that the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show is available via email.
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All right time now for the cruise-in calendar.
Jeffrey.
Well, today is Saturday.
You've got one going on right now as we speak.
It's Caffeine and Chrome at Gateway Classic Cars of Houston, that is, in Houston at their facility, if you know where it's at.
And then tonight, from 5 pm to 9 pm, you've got the family cruise-in.
That's the Three Acres Food Truck Park in Santa Fe, texas, not far from here, texas.
And then 6 pm to 9 pm.
It's like having all of your favorite fast food restaurants within.
Coming to you.
No, but they're right there in a big circle, big circle.
There's Jack in the Box, there's McDonald's, there's Chick-fil-A.
Well, I'm thinking.
Not, it's probably.
I said fast food.
Oh, yeah, yeah, Okay.
And then from 6 to 9 pm tonight the weekly cruise in Montgomery In Montgomery Cruise Inn In.
Montgomery, in Montgomery, in Montgomery Texas.
And then 7 pm tonight, riggs and Tuners.
By night it's at the Red Circle Ice Cream Parlor in Pearland Texas.
So, that's tonight.
What's that called?
Riggs and Tuners.
Riggs and tuners, rigs and tuners.
So it's trucks and tuners.
Pick up trucks, call them a rig, that kind of thing.
You never do that.
I believe that there's a big classic truck show going on in Conroe this weekend by Todd and the Lone Star Throwdown guys.
Yep God what's the name of that?
Todd and Lonnie?
Well, I'll let you look for that.
Yep, yeah, god don't get me.
What's the name of that?
Todd and Lonnie?
Well, I'll let you look for that.
There, okay, but tomorrow 10 am to 2 pm you've got the All-Houston Corvette Day Rally.
That's in Frensley, texas, 2 to 5 pm tomorrow.
You've got Savage next week On July 3rd.
I know it's a weekend here, but July 3rd 6 pm.
That's.
Wednesday.
Wednesday the fourth annual hot dog eating contest.
Freedom Fest car show.
It's in Richmond, texas.
So that's 1125 FM 359 in Richmond.
Texas.
You're kind of a hot dog kind of guy, aren't you?
Yeah, he is.
I am.
I'll tell you about that in a minute.
Fourth of july at 5 30 pm, the freedom celebration and car show 25 130 aldine, westfield in spring texas.
So the story is is that, uh, I've been talking, I don't, I, I have n't, I don't eat hot dogs, but I'm thinking, man, I got a hankering I got a hankering for a hot dog.
So I was talking to my pilot buddy, tommy Noto, and Tommy Noto says oh, I got the ones for you.
He said I don't want the ballpark, I don't want any of those, I don't want Oscar Myers, I don't want any of those.
Go to the grocery store and get boar's head that are in the natural casing and they're all strung together like they had in the cartoons.
You got to cut them apart.
He says those are the ones.
So my grocery store run tomorrow is going to be Boar's Head hot dogs.
I'm going to get those.
And I want to get some really nice buns and not, you know, little Miss Sunbeam or something like that.
I don't like those.
And a nice bun.
Give me some chopped onions, some relish and some a nice bun.
Give me some chopped onions, some relish and some mustard.
And somebody said, well, well, wait a minute, what about?
I could put some sprinkle, some cheese on there.
I'm good with that, but I don't want sauerkraut and I don't want chili on there no, no, this is not a brat.
We're not putting sauerkraut on a on a dang houston texas sacrilegious.
No, it's not.
No, no, no, mr Michigan, I'm from Wisconsin.
I got the edge on the setup.
You got the brat up on me.
I got brat up on you.
When we lived in San Antonio, the minor league AAA team would have dollar dog, dollar beer night kind of like what Rodney was talking about, and we'd get together and go out there.
We didn't care what kind of dogs they had After about $20 worth of dollar beers.
You know you don't care.
He just gave me something, anything.
And, by the way, I want to give a shout out to George Skelton, our dear friend and my high school well, grade school, junior high and high school friend who he and his wife were celebrating their 90th wedding anniversary 91st, I think, 91st yeah and he's also been doing some posting for us and we appreciate that.
George, thank you very much.
It's great to have you as a friend and we love you very much and give Twyla our best.
Happy wedding anniversary, yeah happy wedding anniversary.
I think it's not 91.
Yeah, it's only 89.
No, it's 89.
He'll tell us, I'm sure there's no doubt, or Twyla will.
I can only imagine what they're posting right now.
Oh no, A couple of stories that I wanted to get in before we call it a day.
Cost of vehicle repair is rising Duh.
Therefore, so is the chance of customers getting hit with hefty service department bills.
To ensure they don't decline the work and help them afford the repair, More dealerships are offering ready Drool rum Drool rum, I know I got it.
Offering buy now, pay later service lane financing.
Not only does it give customers more flexibility, the financing option also boosts customer satisfaction, according to some dealerships.
Of course it did.
According to JD Power, the average amount spent on premium dealership service rose from $314 in 2023 to $380 this year, a 21% increase.
For mass market brands, amount rose 11% from $125 in 2023 to $140 in 2024.
So now you can finance your vehicle repairs.
Well, it's buy now, pay later, but that still doesn't get you in the shop any quicker.
Maybe, maybe not, I don't know.
I doubt it.
I doubt it If you bring your car to us today, we'll give you Next Thursday.
Next Thursday, ram grabbed the top spot on the JD Power US initial quality survey for the second time in four years, while Stellantis stablemate Dodge dropped to last place after leading the industry in 2023.
Well, do they make anything in Dodge anymore Other than the EV?
I think that's about it now.
That's about it right now.
Porsche ascended to the number one ranking among premium brands after being the runner-up last year to Stellantis' own Alfa Romeo, which fell to the bottom tier in 2024.
Porsche was seventh overall.
Chevrolet ranked second, moving up three spots from last year.
Hyundai jumped to third place, up from 17.
Kia was fourth and Buick rounded out the top five.
Gmc and Cadillac fell out of the top 10.
Ford moved up from below average in 2023 to ninth place this year.
Owners reported an average of 195 problems per 100 vehicles.
Three more than a year ago, ram had 149 problems per 100 vehicles and Porsche had 172.
Ram did very well in numerous areas, including their infotainment system, according to Frank Hanley, senior Director of Auto Benchmarking at JD Power, and this story from Automotive News Study now in its 38th year, based on responses from 99,000 people.
So it's legit.
Yeah, and Chinese automotive brands are expected to achieve 33% market share across the globe by 2030.
What?
That's a lot, including a 20% market share in Mexico, according to a report by the consulting firm Alex Partners.
Wow For Western automakers.
It's not just competing in the Chinese market, it's competing with the Chinese automakers around the globe.
The Biden administration raised tariffs on Chinese EVs in May to 102.5%
from a previous 27.5%
.
Still, chinese manufacturers could take advantage of the US-Mexico-Canada agreement.
That policy may allow vehicles to enter the US from Mexico duty-free if 75% of the vehicle and parts come from North America and 40% come from places where wages are $16 or more per hour.
I don't have time.
Read those percentages again.
Yeah, I can't.
All right, so thank you for playing, but we're going to be back here on In Wheel Time right after this quick break.
The original group of Loopy Tortilla restaurants will have you telling your family and friends just what the original recipe means when it comes to the best fajitas in Southeast Texas.
Founder Stan Holt invites you to visit the first Loopy Tortilla near I-10 and Highway 6.
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That everyone will agree makes Loopy Tortilla award-winning beef fajitas the best anywhere.
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It's located on 99 the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Boulevard in Katy.
Find yourself in Aggieland Head to the Loopy Tortilla in College Station, located just around the corner from Kyle Field, it's a great place to enjoy those famous frozen margaritas before or after the game.
Going to Louisiana, the Loopy Tortilla in Beaumont is on I-10, so you can't miss it.
The original group of Loopy Tortilla restaurants has the best Tex-Mex anywhere and you're invited anytime.
Your car is a direct reflection of you, so don't be satisfied with color fade or a dingy, dull appearance.
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Oh stop, you're crying.
Yes, that's all for this week's In-Wheel Time Car Talk Show.
Here's my hanky.
Be sure to check out our website inwheeltimecom.
Follow us on Facebook, give us a like, tell your car friends about us and share our stuff.
We'll keep you connected to the automotive world all week long.
Love letters, suggestions and hate mail can be sent to Mars at inwheeltimecom.
When you're looking for award-winning car talk, you can find the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show 24-7 on the iHeartRadio app Daily 30-minute podcasts available from your favorite podcast provider.
We post a new episode every day and, don't forget, we live stream this show on Facebook, youtube and InWheelTimecom.
Every Saturday from 8 am to 11 am Central Time.
The InWheelTime video technical director and wise guy is we Need More Jeff Zekin For Booking Agent, video editor, people finder Mike out of this world, mars and chief engineer David Ainsley.
I'm Don Armstrong.
We hope you'll join us next week here on the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show.
It's coming your way Saturday, july the 6th, from 8 to 11 am on all of our In Wheel Time Car Talk outlets.
Have a great weekend, have a great 4th of July, be safe out there and we'll see you next week.
That's it for this podcast episode of the In Wheel Time Car Show.
I'm Don Armstrong.
That's it for this podcast episode of the In Wheel Time Car Show.
I'm Don Armstrong, inviting you to join us for our live show every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am.
Central on Facebook, youtube, twitch and our InWheelTimecom website.
Podcasts are available on Apple Podcasts, spotify, stitcher, iheart Podcast, podcast Addict TuneIn, pandora and Amazon Music.
Keep listening and we'll see you soon.
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