Rallying Through the Arctic with the Ineos Grenadier - Andy and Mercedes Lilienthal!
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Rallying Through the Arctic with the Ineos Grenadier - Andy and Mercedes Lilienthal!
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Welcome to another In-Wheel Time Podcast, a 30-minute mini version of the In-Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am.
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All right, you're on the In-Wheel Time car talk show just ahead, the Lillian Thalls from the Pacific Northwest.
Well, we guess that's where they are.
They travel everywhere in their cars.
It could be next door, it could be Conrad has this Week in Auto History and we'll get you caught up on the stories making the stories.
This will get you caught up on the stories making news this week.
Did he proofread this?
I don't think I wrote it, but I didn't proofread it.
There you go, because if I had a proofread it.
I would have been different you wouldn't put the stutter in it.
How do you longer, my God of this world, mars, santa Claus DeLong, we need more.
Jeff Zeekin, I'm Don Armstrong, glad you could join us on this Saturday, last half hour of our weekly live program.
I'm glad so much that you could join us today.
Let's get right to it Pacific Northwest.
Let's see, it's 2 hours and 10.
It's 8.30
in the morning.
And look who's out of bed, ladies and gentlemen, it's Andy and Mercedes.
Lillian Thall, hi, kids.
Hey, how are you doing?
Hey, how are you?
Good and happy new year to you both.
Yeah, happy new year to you guys too.
Well, thank you, we appreciate you.
We always love talking to you guys and find out what adventures are going on in the Lillian Thall household, and I understand that we have an Alcan 5000 rally coming up.
That's right we do.
We leave February 19 for the Kirkland Washington area and then we'll leave the starting line February 21st.
So tell everybody what the Alcan 5000 rally is.
So the Alcan 5000 rally is technically a road rally, so it encompasses sections of time-speed distance rally, competitive time-speed distance rally and then massively long transits to the next stop.
So in a traditional TSD or time-speed distance rally you follow directions.
It's all about being accurate, going through checkpoints at the right time not as fast as you can, but at the right time.
And like our local TSD club, the Cascade Sports Car Club, they will do a TSD on, say, a Saturday morning, generally last like three hours, four hours.
You may have a section where you'll do the section and then there's might be a 10-mile transit to the beginning of the next section.
Alcan is like that on steroids.
Big time steroids.
You'll have your morning TSD, which might go for about 45 minutes to an hour, and then you might have an 800-mile transit to the next town.
Oh my God.
Wait a minute 800 miles, that's a two-day trip.
That's it, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a 5000 miles plus in 10 days and it's in some freezing temperatures.
When we did this in 2020, they run it like the Olympics, so it's cold weather.
One year, winter rally, summer rally.
Two years later, two years after that, it's going to be a winter rally.
So the first time we did a winter rally, in 2020, we hit temperatures as cold as minus 42 degrees.
Oh, count us in, we're in on that 43.
No-transcript 43.
Yeah, but anyway yeah because that one degree makes such a big.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's a dry cold.
What is that?
That cold, weird stuff freezes, and it's not just always car parts.
Yeah, greece does weird things, your eyes do weird things, your camera gear does weird things.
It's a totally different world up there when you get that far north.
This year we're not going as far north.
The route changes each year.
We still will be going above the Arctic Circle though, so people can visit lcan5000.com
and actually see the map of where we're going this year, because the route always changes, like Andy said.
But yeah, we're stoked to do it again in the winter, and it is the most extreme rally in North America.
At 43 below zero, I would imagine that you would have engine block heaters.
So it kind of depends.
In 2020 we took our own vehicle, one of our Japanese market diesel Mitsubishi Pajeros.
In that vehicle we had an oil pan heater.
We also had a Webasto Thermotop Evo coolant heater which circulated coolant when the car wasn't running and without that that old diesel wouldn't have started.
Modern vehicles, gasoline powered vehicles, they can, you know, they go under, go millions of miles of cold weather testing before they even see the light of day and they have to be sold in places like Alaska, canada, another northern region.
So most modern ignition systems can still cope pretty well.
But well and tell the audience who we're actually partnering with this year.
Yeah, so in 2024, we're partnering with Ineos Automotive and we'll be driving their Ineos Grenadier from here in our house all the way up to Seattle then through the entire route.
Is it an SUV?
Yes, Ineos Grenadier is an SUV.
It comes from a company called Ineos.
They're kind of best known for making a host of different chemicals and whatnot.
It's.
The overarching company is called Ineos Group and it's based in the UK, and I believe that there's 26 different businesses that are all underneath the Ineos Group label, but Ineos Automotive is one of those that spawned off of it.
So under Ineos, automotive is the brand new auto manufacturer and the Ineos Grenadier is their very first vehicle iteration, and then underneath that are three different models, with the trial master being the most rugged and the most off-road capable, and that's the model iteration that we will be driving.
I understand that they're just now getting on for sale up in Canada a couple of dealerships up there.
Yes, yes, yeah, so they are literally, as of the last few weeks, landing on US and Canadian soils.
So we, because we live in Portland Oregon, up here in the Pacific Northwest, we have a local dealership, ron Tonkin, grant Trismo, in Wilsonville by us, which is about 15, 20 minutes away from where we live.
I just talked to them yesterday and they have a few left on the lot, so they had about 20, some in a lot.
There's one in Seattle.
There's about, I think, 18 total in the US, 18 dealers, yeah, total dealers to start within the US.
Yes, thanks for the clarification and I just talked to PR as far as the US Ineos side yesterday and they said that there are starting to be some Canadian dealerships, vancouver areas starting to open up and selling and then also the suburban areas in Toronto have a few dealerships that are now marketing and it looks because I've found it on their website and posted it on our social media.
it looks like previous generation Land Rover Defender to a degree.
Yes.
Very square box, very vertical, pretty off-road, rugged looking vehicle.
Yeah, very much so.
Solid front rear axles available, triple locked front, center and rear differentials.
Very capable vehicle factory BF Goodrich KO2s.
We're actually swapping our tires out.
We absolutely love BF Goodrich KO2s.
We run them on our own four-wheel drives, but because this is a dedicated winter rally, we decided to go with a dedicated winter tire.
So we're actually running Michelin X-Ice tires, so we're going to make sure that we get the maximum traction in that snow and ice up there.
And those would be studless right.
It's a studless tire.
It's going to be the factory 265, 70, 17 tire size.
We're not going up or down the size but we're going to make sure that's on a winter rubber.
Where are these built at?
So they're built actually in a town right on the border of Germany and France called Hambach Mercedes has actually been there.
In France yes, yeah, I've had the opportunity gosh, probably a year and a half ago, maybe more to visit Hambach, france and it's actually a part of a smart car factory from Mercedes-Benz and visit the tour of the factory and actually do some operating with some earlier stage prototypes, the PTO, two prototypes.
That was really cool because I had a chance to drive the diesel versions and I wish we had the diesel here because they're really really, really cool.
But I had a chance to drive a left-hand drive and right-hand drive prototypes and then last January actually be invited back to do the global media drive event for the production-ready vehicles.
Well the reason I ask is I mean, you're going to such an extreme environment.
I mean, is that something they're really comfortable dealing with, or are they just really stepping out on a limb here?
No, yeah, no, I think that they're really comfortable.
I think, andy, you're about to say that they've tested.
I was Go ahead, oh, ok.
Yeah.
So yeah, they've tested over a million miles in the Scandinavian countries of very cold, very, very cold, very similar conditions to what will be going in and the car.
The vehicle is powered by an inline-six turbo BMW engine.
It's an engine that is for sale in the United States in BMWs and is the same, if not very similar to, but it's the same as the engine that's in the Toyota Supra.
So this is not new-fangled technology or unproven powertrains.
This is something that is a pretty stout and bulletproof engine.
And when I very first met the PR team and saw the very first handcrafted prototype land in the US actually in Texas, believe it or not I talked with them and they mentioned the Alcan 5000 to me, which I thought was really interesting.
So they did their homework on who I was and endurance, rallying and stuff like that.
So it was really cool that they knew of some of these really off-road, on-road, really tougher competitions and so throughout that iteration of the last couple of years we've kind of stayed in touch and now that the vehicles are starting production, really starting to get out there and, yeah, we've been really fortunate and humbled that we are partnering for it.
Now are we going to be able to follow you on this.
Yeah, so of course we'll be posting on our own social media.
So Instagram CrankShap Culture on Instagram, crankshap Culture on Facebook.
I'm sure we'll be putting together some videos eventually for YouTube or CrankShap Culture channel, and then, of course, articles in a variety of magazines, as well as our own website, crankshapculturecom.
Cool.
How do you pack for something like that?
Well, it's funny you mentioned that that's the puppy clothing.
It's funny, you mentioned that.
So we're actually going down to Ron Tonkin Gran Turismo today to go measure one out to make sure that we bring the appropriately sized bins and whatnot.
But to directly answering your question you pack like you have to survive and so you bring the warmest clothes.
You bring dehydrated food in case and you pack as if you're expecting to have to be outside or sleep in the vehicle.
And it's not only about the vehicle having the necessary parts to survive, like the oils, the fluids, the belts, all the parts that you're thinking, ok, this breaks or whatnot.
I mean, heck, when we had the Pajero, the Mitsubishi Pajero, a lot of parts you couldn't get, of course, if you're in Tukti, uptak and the Arctic Ocean and something catastrophic happens with that engine.
So we had a huge box, a room box that we brought with us, just of parts.
But we ourselves had to pack a lot of clothing too.
So we're fortunate in the Pacific Northwest that we have some big name retailers that are based here.
So, for instance, under Armour, columbia Sportswear, mountain Hardware, cerell all those different companies are based here.
So we spent a lot of money in good clothing, because it's kind of like the buy ones, cry ones.
But if you're in negative 43 or there's a blizzard, which we've had to blow through that blizzard, you have to be prepared, you have to be warm.
So Well, go ahead.
I was just.
We're going to do the Bahama 200 next month.
The Bahama 200.
We're going to do the Bahama 200.
That's 200 drinks.
It has nothing to do with mileage 200 margaritas.
Yeah.
We're packing.
I would have on that after the Alkan five.
We're packing an extra towel?
Yeah, exactly.
I'm showing you down there.
In your speed time distance rallying?
Have you ever found yourselves kind of parking out of sight for a few minutes, making sure you crossed your location at the correct time?
Sandbag.
Yeah well, yeah, the time speed distance.
Part of it is Hair racing sometimes.
We have done a number of them and it's one of those things where they go really quickly and you just got to live in the moment and you've just got to make sure that you've taken that right turn or the left turn or whatnot, and you may figure out that afterwards.
We had it happen on a winter one where we're crossing the finish line in Suddenly the car that was behind us is in front of us.
How did that happen?
When did it happen?
That's not supposed to happen.
So it's fast and furious during the TSD rallies and one mistake can throw you off for the entire event.
And I think you could tell who's the driver and who's the navigator.
So you know, yeah, the driver.
by the way never knows where we're going ever.
Me, because the navigator it's always the Joe.
All the drivers are sitting around at breakfast going, hey, where are we headed today?
I don't know.
Nobody knows.
It's always the navigator, trust me.
I'm here to tell you.
The driver's got the easier part of this.
She's got the hard part.
She's got to tell us all where we're going and where she and I are going.
And, yeah, she might tell me to take a wrong turn I might get us lost.
It's all part of it.
Stock, that's happening.
Can you use GPS?
So we actually can.
Yeah, there are a variety of classes but we can use GPS, but we generally just use the route book that's included.
Well, the thing is for us is there's a route book and we're running the seat of pants class, so that's basically the equipment that the vehicle has in a simple calculator.
But with this rally group you can use a simple odometer that's digital.
You can use GPS.
But the problem is is you can't use GPS.
The route book says, you know, turn left at Smith Street.
You know, go 26 miles per hour for 0.2
miles, then turn right at John Street.
I don't know why I'm doing guys names, but you know John Street increased speed to 37 kilometers or miles per hour.
You know, blah, blah, blah.
So you can't put those into a GPS.
It's my job to understand all of that and it's literally just listed line by line by line by line, with incremental.
You know, mileages times, all that you know.
I have to figure out the incremental times, but it's mileages, you know, and all of that, and it's about a half an inch thick of 5,000 miles.
Plus, which it's a running odometer.
The entire, the entire rally is a running odometer.
So from mile zero to mile 5,000, even if you're not competing when you're doing these hundreds of miles of transit, you know it'll still say that you know at some point, oh, you're going to have to turn off the highway and take this, take this other highway at mile 3,642.25
.
Yeah, and so you know it's.
We want to keep, keep on that route book.
So we don't.
We don't generally use the GPS.
We have used it if we've gotten turned around a little bit, just like where you know we got off the highway or or what.
The biggest thing is they're not trying to get you lost.
It's not a trap.
Rally because they don't want you to die.
Right you know this year this year, 2024.
Yeah, Exactly.
I mean this because it's such a severe endurance rally right and that you know, this year is the 40th year iteration, so it started in 1984.
So we're very humbled to be a part of it for a third, the for a third iteration, shall we say.
So 2020, 2022, we partnered with Subaru of America, not 2024 with Ineos Automotive, but their main goal is to keep everybody together.
So we all have buddy cars Be safe and be safe.
And then we all have emergency communications too.
So Is Ineos going to send somebody with you?
No, so we did ask, however, to make sure that you know, heaven forbid there.
Something does come up that we have access to.
At least call somebody Like an engineer Like hey, you know we're having this issue.
What do we do, you know?
Again, it's a pretty proven engine and and drivetrain combination.
It's not some, you know, one off bit of sorcery here.
So they've done a lot of severe duty, cold testing in the Scandinavian Arctic during the winter, and so we're feeling pretty confident about being able to take it up to the Arctic in Canada, here and in Alaska, and the furthest north that we're going to do is we do all the what they call optional extreme controls, which is basically all the that shit crazy part of my language all the batch of crazy, you know, endurance stuff.
So all the extra legs, all the extra routes, and that the furthest north will go this year will be to cold foot Alaska.
So that's on the day off when a lot of people choose to take the day off to go to the chain of hot springs, and we will instead drive all the way half up to Prudhoe Bay, grab our gasoline and come back home.
So what she's?
The thing she didn't mention was the extreme challenges net you more points, right?
So if you don't do that, you don't get the extra points.
So, and if you get more points, obviously you have a better chance of getting trophies and so on and so forth, right?
So so we hear, Andy, you've been preparing for this since the Halloween Blizzard of 91.
Correct?
I'm impressed that you know.
You could think you could thank Dan Wicklum for that.
Oh, yes, I know Dan went to high school.
I went through all school with Dan, but yeah, absolutely.
It's the, it's a every minute, so it remembers where they were in 91 during that Blizzard.
So fun.
Well, Andy and Mercedes, we sure appreciate you sharing the story with us.
We can't wait to talk to you when you get back.
We're going to schedule that.
Yeah, let's do it, yeah, yeah for sure.
Okay, well, mars, mars will be we talked about.
We may try and talk to them once they got the vehicle in their hand, to kind of get a look at the vehicle, if we can set up something to do.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and maybe we could do remote from the Arctic Circle.
Well, there you go.
Yeah, good luck on that.
Well, thank you and best of luck to you both.
We're with you all the way and we sure appreciate you taking the time this early early morning for you West coasters out there, and we appreciate you.
Oh, thank you for having us on guys.
Thank you so much.
Y'all take care, We'll be safe.
We look forward to the end results.
All right, y'all be good.
All right time now for Conrad's.
This Week in Auto History.
Well, a friend of mine, Don Hartman, always told me nothing ever changes in the car business.
In 1921, the international motor company registered the MAC trademark for its 1911, for its trucks, you know.
And the reason I say nothing has changed.
It had 28 inch wheels back then.
It was already, for some of the car shows that are going on, the original Donk Right.
In 1926, general Motors officially introduced Pontiac at the New York Motor Show as a companion brand to their modestly priced Oakland line.
Soon after Pontiac, sales began to really take off and it far outsold Oakland.
The increasing sales figures led for GM to shut down Oakland in 1932 and focus on their hot new car, pontiac, thus becoming the only automotive brand mark to survive its parent company.
In 1980, jimmy Carter signed a bill authorizing $1.2
billion in federal loans to save the failing Chrysler corporation.
That's not Jimmy Carter, no, no, no, but that's Mr Iacoco who took the $1.2
billion.
Save the company.
The big three American car companies had suffered through the 70s as Japanese competitors, led by Honda and Toyota, outperform them in quality and price and to a large degree still do.
In 1985, gm launched the Saturn Corporation as a wholly owned but independent subsidiary within General Motors.
Saturn, a sporty and affordable plastic bodied two door, was their original car.
That's the four door that I pictured there.
We see that.
But the new mid-sized Saturn sedan also came as a station wagon.
Did you ever get either of you two guys ever get a Saturn to drive?
Nope, my brother and I had one.
They loved it.
Not bad.
Very good cars, very interesting selling technique.
They were one price car.
There was no negotiation.
You bought a Saturn for whatever was on the sticker.
Then in 1989, dodge introduced the Viper at the North American International Motor Show.
The Viper was a modernized tribute to the classic Shelby Cobra, which won rave reviews by the company.
Dodge delivered a production version in 1992.
Just three years later Really made history with that car.
Then in 1994, dodge introduced the Neon Of the Neon.
They also had an SRT-4 version with a 230 horsepower.
That's the General Motors EV1, the first electric car sold by General Motors.
Then the Dodge Neon was after that, next Okay, back to you, don.
I thought I sent the pictures correctly, but I need to look up instead of read right?
Yeah, there's that, we got you covered.
A Vietnamese automaker, vinfast, added to its growing list of franchise dealerships in the US as the electric vehicle brand shifts away from its direct sales model in favor of third-party retailers.
Ev Startup announced four independent stores this week Smith Haven VinFast in St James, new York, principal VinFast Grapevine, new Dallas, highly vinfast in fort worth and vinfast wichita in kansas.
The new dealerships are in addition to vinfast's first franchise dealership in the us, leith vinfast in curing, north korea.
Leith store is near the site where vinfast is building its first us assembly plant to make electric crossovers that will form the backbone of its lineup.
They won't last long now Vietnamese.
Now, I'm sorry, I don't.
I don't see that being a long term, but find me and I they have to be in deep kimchee if they have to recall.
That's correct.
Mars, did you hear that?
Yes, I did kimchee, I'm trying I'm trying not to say anything.
Uh number of electric vehicle models eligible for a consumer tax credit as of Of as much as 7500 fell sharply as new rules from the biden administration kicked in on january 1st.
Your tax dollars and where were criteria?
Reduced the number of qualifying models to 13 from about two dozen, according to federal data from fuel economy dot gov.
The new rules exclude From the tax credit vehicles that use battery components made by chinese manufacturers.
All right transfer of wealth, the government taking your money to give it to people to do things they don't want to normally do.
There is that which is by an electric car.
All right, time now for a quick break.
We'll be right back the in wheel time car talk show streaming on, podcasting and looking everywhere.
It's looking good and you can find us everywhere.
Stay with us.
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Founders stan hold invites you to visit the original loopy tortilla near i10 at highway 6.
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Head to the loopy tortilla college station, located just around the corner from kyle field.
It's a great place to enjoy those famous frozen margaritas before or after the game.
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It can't miss it.
The original group of loopy tortilla restaurants invites you in for the best tex max anywhere.
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About this episode
Andy and Mercedes Lilienthal share their upcoming adventure in the Alcan 5000 rally, a grueling 5,000-mile journey through extreme Arctic conditions. They discuss their preparation, including the use of the Ineos Grenadier SUV, which they will drive during the rally. The couple highlights the challenges of rallying in freezing temperatures, the importance of proper gear, and the unique aspects of time-speed-distance rallies. Their experiences from previous rallies, including dealing with extreme cold and vehicle maintenance, add depth to their story, making it an engaging listen for adventure and automotive enthusiasts alike.
Original notes
Strap in for a wild ride with rally enthusiasts Andy and Mercedes Lilienthal, with Crankshaft Culture, as they take us behind the scenes of beginning their preparations for the grueling Alcan 5000 winter rally. With a no-holds-barred approach, they reveal what it takes to conquer a 5000-mile gauntlet in the grip of Arctic temperatures, sharing the pulse-pounding excitement and the meticulous preparation needed for such an extreme motorsport event. The Lilienthal's also give us a glimpse into their rugged journey piloting the new Ineos Grenadier SUV, designed to withstand the rally's punishing conditions. This episode is a celebration of endurance, resilience, and the fierce spirit required to thrive amidst the relentless chill of winter racing.
Cruising down memory lane with our feature - This Week In Automotive History - , we reflect on the monumental shifts in the automotive industry, from the colossal wheels of the MAC truck to the heartrending goodbye to Pontiac. We remember the Chrysler crisis and the heroics of Lee Iacocca, and relive the spark of innovation with GM's EV1 and the electric revolution that's accelerating today. Our discussion veers into the strategic moves of VinFast and the updated U.S. tax credits reshaping the EV landscape. So buckle up—this isn't just a podcast; it's a time machine with a turbocharged engine, inviting you to rediscover the revolutions that drive us forward.
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