Resto-Mod Bubble, Overhyped Supercars & Ferrari’s New 849 Testarossa

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horsepower meets conversation.

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Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

So, like, you show me a photo of a twisty, empty back road with no one on it, and then

a roadside that looks like the small intestine, and that is like pheromones to me.

I mean, I literally look at that, and I'm like, oh, it's like I want to hold a photo

trifold, and just like a playboy, and I mean.

What's the suspension that you got on Tortuga there?

Bone stock.

Everything like a B6, Bilstein or something like that.

Yeah, just Bilstein strut inserts.

I mean, I don't even have rally crazy setup.

I just have, you know, I mean, here's the funny thing is we went forever trying.

I wanted to raise it really high to get as much ground clearance.

And I even had Joey Sealy fuck with it for a while, and he's like, I got as high

as I can, but then I'm at zero negative camber, which sucked on the front, took

it to Tony Callas, and he's scratching his head.

He's like, I don't understand.

And then he goes, wait a minute, runs in the back.

He's got a box of these inserts, which Dave, you'll know about.

Basically, when we got US cars here, the way they did the suspensions,

we had US ride height laws with headlights, they had this spacer.

And he's like, I have never in 40 years put a spacer back in a 9 11.

He put it back in the car line perfectly.

And most people don't realize they go, oh, my green car is a safari car.

It's US ride height.

That is all it is.

Yeah, Tony, Tony's really smart.

Set to what's that?

That's all it's set to is US ride height.

US ride height.

And it's amazing the amount of ground clearance you have.

But anyway, so, Tim, I hope you got, you know, like I assume you had to go

figure out your 19 digit safe combination with laser, whatever,

to pull out this rare watch that you had to probably buy, well,

a Ferrari to get just to have allocation of the watch.

I'm so glad when you're winding down on your pain medicine, Paul,

it's so refreshing to know these are fresh stitches, pain.

This is just pure pain.

Fresh stitches.

Well, in case you have to show us this car here, Paul,

in case you didn't figure it out, this is your favorite weekly podcast.

And this is full throttle talk and on Paul's idea was to start

through recording prior to actually officially starting.

And obviously, it's kind of fun to listen to.

I did it last week, but just to go through the agenda, what we're going to be

talking about so you don't have to worry that you're going to waste a couple

hours of your life listening to four guys just yammer about anything.

We're talking about what are we, what did you do in cars this week?

We're going to share some automotive news.

We're going to talk about something I think all of us are really looking

forward to. I have a feeling Casey is going to run away with this one.

Rust-O-Mod bubble. Are we just getting started?

We're going to talk about really Rust-O-Mods versus, for example,

you know, buying a factory correct car, dare I say.

We're going to talk about what are the most overhyped cars today

that will not hold interest or value over time.

That will be kind of a fun topic.

We're going to talk about this week's an auction and we have a couple

bonus sections as well.

So guys, let me start out by asking you, what did you do in cars this week?

Wait, aren't we going to talk about watches?

I thought we just like a really quick.

We could talk about if you want to start out by talking about watches,

let's go.

All right, I have a watch.

I promise none of you are wearing today.

And in fact, I don't think any of you would own.

And let me just show it and see if you guys can guess what it is.

Any guesses?

Mm hmm.

And no, I did not get this out of a Japanese vending machine.

That's what it looks like.

I know.

It's in pistachio.

OK, I'll give you a hint.

I'll tell you the name of the watch.

You tell me why it's significant.

Ikepod.

Oh, you guys are not watch people.

I think I heard Matt Farah talk about that on one of his podcasts before.

So Ikepod is a brand that it was famously made famous by Mark Newsom,

who designed all the significant Apple products.

Mark Newsom is the one who really kind of pulled Apple.

Him and Steve Jobs were like that.

He was an industrial designer, made some phenomenal, you know, the iPhone,

the I watch, the IMAX in the 90s,

with all the colors that was all Mark Newsom.

This came out in the 90s.

And if you notice, I mean, the kind of shape sort of the pillowcase shape

of this weird shape was sort of the inspiration for the I watch,

which if you look at like Matt Farah does have one from the 90s,

and it looks very much like an I watch.

So there it is.

They're not expensive.

They've been rebranded, but there you go.

I want to go next.

Yeah, next.

Apple Watch series seven with an Ikepod rubber band.

Wow, deep cut.

Casey, Casey, did you watch the Apple thing yesterday

then trying to sell you yet another new Apple Watch?

Did you watch it or you care at all?

I only I've got a good, really good buddy that works for Apple

that I've sold a couple of cars to.

And I've been holding out because every time I plug my phone into a wall,

it says phone is too hot will resume charging when it cools down,

but it never cools down because it's charging.

So I really need a new telephone.

I've been holding out for like the last six months.

So I did not look at anything other than that.

The only thing that I traditionally care about at those events

are Apple phones and how they are improving carplay.

Carplay is a big thing for me.

The atrocious outfits that whoever chooses those for them,

no real human wears outfits like that.

I'm not exactly what one would call it, you know, a couture expert.

But wow, I'll just leave it out there.

And yes, I was just there for the phone as well,

which all of us should get because the video aspects of that

are just pretty extraordinary.

You know, I thought that was amazing, especially the zoom.

You know, it's incredible for a mirrorless camera.

I'll go next.

This is a watch that I bought two years ago.

It's an and no, it's not a Rolex and no, it's not a Ferrari watch.

Or a Porsche watch.

Am I getting it all out of the way right away?

It's an Omega.

One of these all titanium watches.

Is that a bond watch?

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.

But I. Yeah, thank you.

But this one is Aston Martin related.

No, it's not. Gosh, Paul, you're so abusive.

But I don't know if you guys know this.

It's just a fun little nerd fact.

I don't know if you can see it on the camera,

but you guys see that little upside down.

It looks like a tent.

It's a V upside down the line through the middle.

So the cool, the cool thing about British military

is when the, when you joined the military,

I don't know if this is still true, but it was, they will give you,

you know, your watch and they'll give you your whatever, whatever.

And all those things have a little military stamp on them.

So if you are wearing a watch with that stamp on it

outside of the military, you probably stole it from when you were in

the service where you obviously could have bought it afterwards, I suppose.

But this is to denote that it's actually still owned by the British government.

So I thought that was funny.

Not this one, obviously.

But I was about to feel it was about to pull it on you.

Yeah, it could be happened in a pole.

I am wearing the inexpensive twin to that.

This is my Seiko Moonwatch Earth version.

So I like the Omega Speedmaster.

Just the plastic case stuff, you know, just a super casual throw it on.

That's bioceramic, not plastic bioceramic.

I feel the, the biowness of it or the ceramic part.

I don't know how it doesn't feel like China to me.

You listen, it's Omega that made the watch for the moon landing watches.

Right. But the modern versions of the moon landing watches

where they're made of different materials, those are pretty bad ass.

Actually, those are those are cool.

Well, that's what that's what Dave's talking about.

Well, his again, his is a swatch version.

Yeah.

Yeah, mine's a swatch version.

Mine's a speed.

Yeah, the Speedmaster has evolved, but it's still kind of the same.

The movements are, of course, different.

But like where the dot is over the 90 and those sorts of things.

And then, of course, you could get layered crystal

or you could get Hesilate on one side,

which is the way that the watch went to the moon with a solid back.

But other than that, the, I mean, watch people definitely disagree with me.

But on average, I do like Dave's watch.

I'd buy one of those in a second. Oh, yeah.

In Sacrilege, by the way, in the early 2000s at the Richard Nixon Library,

they had Buzz Aldrin coming and doing a talk.

I went with my friend because long story, I'm loosely related to Buzz Aldrin.

He went, he was signing books or whatever.

And he was wearing a Rolex and I was so disappointed.

I felt like he gave up.

So I can already see where this is going to go in the show.

I'm already getting the vibe.

All right. So, so you guys are moving things around on the agenda, which is fine.

What did you guys do in cars this week?

You can go first, Casey.

You have a very interesting story to share.

I saw I am so I don't want to get too deep into it.

But just when it comes to auction cars,

be it physical auction or online auction,

I really, if somebody is really considering a car,

make sure that you either know what you're looking for,

or you know somebody that you can talk to who knows what they're looking for.

I receive cars from clients all the time

that come from online and physical auctions.

And I had one show up, actually had two show up this week.

One was OK, but needs some work.

The other was not OK.

Issues that I found within the first three minutes of inspecting the car.

And just kind of I'm urging people like I talked to Paul earlier this week

about some vetting of a vehicle that he was talking over with a client.

But it's really important that you know somebody that knows the car

inside and out so that you can feel comfortable with your purchase,

especially if you're spending almost seven figures.

I mean, it's it's really important

because there is a possibility that you could get burned.

Can I ask a question about that, Casey?

Sure.

So would you feel the same way if you were buying it from Bruce Canepa?

For example, OK, no, I would not.

That's the bottom line.

So basically, yeah, I would.

You would. I mean, here's it.

Here's here's the reality.

And I tell people this all the time, good dealers

occasionally will sell a bad car, usually out of ignorance.

Bad dealers will occasionally get a good car because they can't.

They'll just stumble over it.

I don't care if a Porsche dealer is selling it.

I don't care if your your dad is selling it.

It's just cheap insurance to get inspection.

It really is.

And the number of times I have seen stories like Casey's relaying happen.

It's incredible. Now, that being said,

you know, that it's all about money and how it relates to you.

When I bought my Azuzu impulse, it was literally an impulse.

It was four hours of an auction left to go.

And I had to make a gamble and I figured if I found got the car

and it was worth half of what I thought I paid for it

because I made some big mistakes, I was OK with losing that money

because that money proportionate to my income and everything else

we're talking four thousand dollars was OK for the gamble

because I couldn't find the car anywhere else at all.

But I mean, maybe cost you 10 percent of the value of the car.

Right. I mean, yeah.

So I don't know with some people, but I'll just I mean,

I see it over and over again that we were telling her this week

that I was looking at a nine nine three back east at a Porsche dealer.

So many questions.

And I just said, look, if you want to pursue this car, go for it.

But take it to find an independent near that Porsche dealer

and get it inspected because how much would you be bummed

if you got the car and there was a five digit bill

needed to be done to make that car safe and usable.

So I'll go back to your your statement, Tim.

Yes, I think the stuff that I see come out of Canepa is amazing.

I have inspected cars that have come from him.

I've seen nine eleven S or say nine five nine Canepa cars

that are amazing.

I'm a trust but verify kind of person.

So yes, I'm if somebody says yes, it came from them all about it.

I'd still want to go put eyes on it.

I was just using Bruce's because I think everyone will agree

in the industry, he's pretty much, you know, crown jewels of people to buy cars from.

I mean, he makes he makes mistakes.

We sold a nine nine three RS.

My client took it to Bruce for an oil change.

A hundred thousand dollars later, he had an engine rebuild.

It didn't get for free.

Did he have to get the oil change, possibly

two beautiful three ring binders.

Docu the best documentation of an engine rebuild I've ever seen.

We turn around, sell that car, goes to a client

who decides to have Tony Callis inspected.

Bottom line is that engine need to be torn down again and rebuilt.

And because of all the photo documentation, Tony saw it.

They use the wrong washer or nut or whatever.

There was something that they just made a human error.

And to get to it, you had to take the heads off.

You don't have to split the case.

We had to take the pistons and cylinders out.

Basically, you had a twenty four thousand dollar.

Let's go fix that little tiny stupid thing.

So stuff happens.

Definitely stuff happens. That's for sure.

So, Dave, what did you do?

What did you do in cars this week?

Anything interesting you want to share with me?

I mean, it's a good dovetail off of these guys right here

because the car behind me is one that I delivered

and stressed about for basically the better part

of last week and over the weekend, which was I bought.

I sold this car, which is a eighty two nine eleven target

in wine red had been repainted.

Ninth car, a lot of miles, but a great compression leak down

and some paperwork that suggests that a top end rebuild.

I had a hundred and seventy thousand miles on it.

And so as always happens, you know, client take gets a test drive.

We go through the whole thing.

And ultimately, let me pull this over here.

That's probably a little bit better.

Oh, there you go. There we go.

I just had the mic in the wrong spot here.

Apologize. But I'll drive the cars a little bit

because I want to make sure this car is great

before it gets delivered to the customer.

So I'm driving the car and all of a sudden, boom,

I go run down to Home Depot with it

and I come back out to get in the car

and the car has got a hot start problem.

I cannot get the car to hot start

after I driven it for 10 minutes or 15 minutes.

So, of course, I'm not delivering a car to a client with a problem.

So, you know, we did all the rest of the punch list items

that we'd agreed to.

But then I literally, my team spent the next two days

going through this thing and it was right up until,

you know, what I what I guess I'll say is, you know,

the witching hour before we actually sorted it out,

we put a new warmup regular on it first.

Typical moves on a CIS car, warmup regulator.

We did the fuel distribution head on it next.

Neither of those two items changed anything on the car.

And we were just baffled at that point

because there's obviously other things.

I think we put a, oh, gosh, I'll think of what it was.

We put something else at the end of the day.

What it turned out to be was a thermal time switch

that's on the driver's side,

the cam bank, that is really supposed to only work

to deal with the car when it's cold.

But if that switch is stuck either closed or open,

it's a kind of an on-off sort of thing.

All these little things on CIS cars kind of, you know,

they just go through in it.

You get, you know, it's not,

and people will try to tune around that.

Like you'll take it, you'll end up with a car sometimes

where somebody's tried to tune around a problem

that there was with the car and then you fix a problem.

And now the rest of the car runs like shit

because they tuned around it.

But long story short, client was coming on a Saturday.

We figured out the thermal time switch

like at six o'clock on Friday night.

And so finally the car got delivered to the client

and all was well, yes, but I stressed.

That was my week.

Okay, so I'll go next.

So number one, I got a very nice invoice

from Dave for the interior of our Albert,

which I appreciate, and I paid it right away, by the way.

You didn't get the full throttle talk discount?

I don't know if I did.

You only got part one of the invoice.

I will say this.

I am 100% trusting Dave and his team

because you have yet to show me what you're doing.

I haven't seen the design yet.

Exactly.

It's gonna be great.

But the thing I'm most excited about is we got this,

there was a rumor in our neighborhood

that there was gonna be a go-kart track,

like a professional go-kart track being built.

I don't know, have you guys,

have you guys ever been on a go-kart,

like a real go-kart, not like K1?

Okay, like a real, Paul, what were you in?

Well, like, do you remember can-class, pipe-class,

shifter-kart?

No, it wasn't shifter-kart,

because I went with a friend.

It was Adams over, it was a big track

that's, I think now getting,

K1 actually bought, I think, Adams,

making, they're gonna have a full pro

kind of gas-powered thing.

It was whatever's down from a shifter-kart.

I didn't trust myself with a shifter-kart.

It was freaking fast.

Do you remember if I had elongated exhaust on it?

Like a lot.

It was when I was not as fat

and could fit in the damn thing.

Okay.

Thank you for making the fat jokes, I didn't have to.

So the, yeah, so you're talking about basically,

it sounds like a pipe-class-kart.

So anyway, long story short, these guys had built,

hired somebody, again, they all,

they did this without anyone knowing,

these guys being the developer,

they hired someone who's a professional go-kart

or track designer,

who's actually designed tracks for Formula One tracks.

This track has all the turns supposedly

are designed after famous Formula One turns.

They went and bought all these,

it looked like 20 or 30 electric Italian carts,

the whole thing.

I mean, I'm extremely excited about it

because I used to race go-karts.

I did it for a year.

And it was the most fun I ever had

and I stopped doing it

because it was so consumptive of my energies

that I didn't, I was losing focus

on building our business

and this was 25 years ago, more than that now.

So I had to stop it and it's really awesome

but they're finally, I'm gonna get back to it at 55.

We'll see how it works out for me.

All right, so Paul, your turn.

Yeah, and actually I was,

I'm trying to download this picture

because I think you would appreciate the last time

I was in a go-kart, hold on,

because this, because I did go to Newcoms

as you could see in the background,

but I think you all-

When are they gonna fix that sign, Paul?

Never.

You know, it's almost kind of iconic now.

Yep, it is, I know.

There you go, Tim.

Oh, okay, there you go indeed.

Well, that is a long time ago.

That's a head of hair right there.

How do you find these pictures?

Wow, seriously, where the hell that go-krup?

That is me at age 10.

For my 10th birthday,

what I wanted to do was go go-karting.

And by the way, 10, that's 1979,

there's not a lot of go-kart tracks around.

There's not a lot of that stuff around.

So it was a bit of a find.

And as you can see by the go-kart,

it's not exactly safe.

It's just bars.

You know, when you're at the starting grid,

there's a guy who has to come out

and pull the cord like a lawnmower,

because it is a lawnmower.

I remember some of my friends crashing.

If you didn't leave this go-kart track

with a Band-Aid or Bandage of some kind,

you didn't do it right.

All right, so I have-

Those are the good old days, Paul.

I wasn't gonna tell you guys the story,

but I'm gonna tell you the very story version of this.

On the last weekend, I was racing.

You start out with 25, sometimes 30 cars.

And I was in a class where half of it was like kids

that didn't give a damn.

And they would run you off the track.

There were savages.

Sara Fisher, who you guys might remind,

remember from the Indy car,

as she was an Indy car driver,

was in the class ahead of me.

So some of these people, brilliantly talented people.

So I finally get to the point where I'm starting seventh.

I'm really proud of myself.

The rolling starts.

So I'm out racing.

I'm out racing.

Of course, I get passed by a bunch of these ninja kids

at the start, but still I'm having fun.

And all of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye,

I see this guy flip.

And when you flip a cart, it's a plump, plump, plump, plump.

And ideally you fall out of it.

You don't wear harnesses or anything.

So this kid, and this was my last race,

he was wearing a whole suit.

I don't know how it happened,

but he, and this is really what happened.

And I'm gonna say the words.

And if this offends anybody, just, you know,

bear with me, because this is just a body part.

He ripped his scrotum open and his family jewels,

his wedding vegetables basically were, you know,

sitting there for him to, you know, admire.

So, but that's not, yes, exactly.

That, okay, that to me was a career ender.

And like, you know, I was like,

oh, what the hell is this all about?

All right, but this is where I knew

I wasn't gonna ever be a championship cart racer.

He goes to the hospital, they stitch him up

and he goes back the same day in races.

Wow.

Was his name Nick Lada?

I don't remember his name, but I remember,

Julie was, Julie, when I would go to the races with me,

I had a Euro van.

This is back when we had our detailing business.

And we had this Euro van, it had said auto spa

on the side.

So we put the cart in the back and the whole thing.

She was, I called her my track babe.

And any of that, she saw what I saw and we said,

and we sold all the shit within 30 days.

Oh, yeah.

So, in that segue,

I got to do something that is near and dear

and I've even got my clients almost trained.

Friday morning from 6 a.m. to 12 p.m.

You're pretty much not reaching me.

I'm at a cell phone range because I drive up

to the mountains to Good Vives Breakfast Club,

which is a 200 mile round trip minimum.

And of that is some traffic.

If my clients let me take their car,

it's a good way to do a test drive

because I do traffic, I do open road,

I do mountain road, I do altitude.

I get everything.

But the biggest thing for me is it's a way for me

to drive my cars.

And as you know, it's a way to disconnect.

And we have Angela's crest in our backyard.

And it is one of the premier roads in the country.

This time I convinced my lovely wife, Jennifer.

Whoa.

To actually take me up there.

And I think what appealed to her is

the day I got out of the hospital

is the day the road fully opened from Rightwood,

which if you're local, it's been closed for three years.

So coming from Orange County,

I'll come up like you're going to Vegas.

And if you come up the back way through Rightwood,

instead of 22 miles from La Cagnada

with a bunch of Wahoos,

it's a 42 mile drive with no one on the road.

And it was funny, if you watch,

I posted a reel of us driving, you'll see the deer.

It's been three years since there's been animals,

since there's been cars on this road.

So like the animals are looking at us,

like we're lore, like there's generations of deer

that have not only heard about

these mechanical things going by.

And so where deer normally bolt down

to the side of the road,

they're just standing there looking

and like, what are you doing here?

So- Is this because the fires?

I'm confused.

Did you say- No, just years of the road

degrading and snowfall.

And here's what's unique about that part of the road.

It's right where two different districts

of Caltrans maintain it.

So the part that maintains the road that you see

on Newcombe's Ranch and all the Friday drives,

that's district seven, in my opinion.

They are a much more, a better district.

They got, their big roads are that road

and 33, which is Ojai,

which Hagerty rated the best road in the world last year.

Now, when you get halfway on Angeles Crest,

the other side is district eight, I think,

which is Big Bear, Arrowhead and all that.

And the problem is Big Bear and Arrowhead,

Big Bear and Arrowhead take a huge priority

because you've got ski slopes,

you've got businesses, you've got residents.

And so this has been slowly degrading

on the underside of the road.

And it was a 10 mile stretch.

And if you get a chance to drive up through Rightwood,

it is glorious to do it.

So Jennifer, through my ass in the passenger seat,

my little scooter, walker, all that crap.

And we drove up there.

And as I, a couple of cool things happen really quick,

obviously we can talk later about that, you know.

Well, we'll talk about that

in the next segment, Automotive News.

Yeah.

But what happens at Good Vice Breakfast Club,

it's kind of become this thing

that automotive manufacturers are doing

sort of soft launches there

and they're, and they're doing press stuff there.

And I've seen the T50 up there

with Mario, Dario Franckini driving it.

I've seen a lot of the Tuddle cars up there.

There's constantly disguised cars doing testing up there.

So besides the Zinger, one of the cool things that happened

was this couple up here, let me see.

So this is Christopher.

Oh man, I hope, I hope I don't get his wife's name wrong.

It was like Olstead, I apologize.

So if you could see in the background, let me close this.

So in the background is this 930

and then there's a 997 Turbo, 0.1 Turbo manual.

And what's really cool about that

is they shipped both of those cars over from Europe

for Lufka Colt at University Studios last year.

They've left it all year.

Last Tuesday it finally had to go home

and they've been traveling, coming out every couple of months

to do a car vacation with their car.

But what's cool about this 930 is it was a US 930,

an 88 Targa, really rare.

And they bought it, sent it to Porsche Classic in Europe

and did a complete restoration,

changed the color to Amazon green, did motor work.

And I wish I would have saved a picture of the interior.

A picture of the interior had-

Is yellow, right?

Yeah, highlighter, yellow insert.

I saw pictures of that, that's awesome.

But this is a good thing.

I wanna add this to our section

because now we're gonna talk about

restor rods here in a second

if we ever start in talking about

what we did in the last week.

Because that's an interesting little turn on restor rods.

If Porsche is doing, is it considered a restor rod?

Let's, you know, that's a good segue.

But to me, the peeling thing was

to be able to go on this automotive vacay,

send your, and I've thought about it,

send your car to Europe, find a place to store it

and then for a year, come out and do different trips,

like, you know, hubs of a spoke,

going out and doing, you know,

all kinds of different vacations.

I wanna get their name right.

It was Christian and Ortrun.

And they are, they actually worked for Porsche.

So-

Oh, very cool.

But anyway, so I got to do that

and I went to a Cars and Coffee Saturday morning

and it was just glorious to feel like my normal life.

And then-

I got Porsche power on that scooter there.

You know, what's the, what's,

I saw a video with you, a tool around-

Yeah, my friend, my friend, his name's Paul,

so he decorated it like my green 911 Tortuga.

So it's called Tortuga Ito, which is like little Tortuga.

I mean, it's got all the rally stickers on it

that I've gone on.

It's got, they have a little thing for speed,

which has a turtle and a rabbit

and he put Tortuga speed and he gave it to me.

He gifted it to me when I got out of the hospital.

So, and I got to tell you that thing, a life changer.

You know, so-

That's great.

If I were to get a speed line for Paul sticker,

would you put it on there?

I would because I would think of you, Casey,

which would warm my heart.

I'm on it.

We had a problem with one of them.

So he brought me another scooter.

I'll have to take pictures.

And it's the one I leave home and drive around the house

because I don't want to be seen with it

outside of the house.

Here we go.

It's a Ferrari scooter.

Okay.

It's Ferrari.

All right.

No, no, I've actually, if you haven't read the outline,

I've got some, you know,

comebacks in preparation for you.

You probably didn't read it.

So don't worry.

I'll get you back.

I always pay my debts.

All right.

So let's go to automotive,

let's go to automotive news.

And Casey, what automotive news caught your eye since our,

and let's be somewhat succinct on most of these things

because most of our folks are high cardinered like we are.

So they'll probably know most of this.

We don't want to bore them too much.

Real quick,

Porsche is of course doing a lot more with electrification.

The Cayman and Boxster are going to stop here.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the end of this month.

But one thing they announced the other day

is an inductive charging platform

that is going to be optional for the new EV Cayenne.

I think it's pretty awesome.

I think it's something that's been a while in the works

and they're just trying to figure out how to make it work.

But basically you pull up to it,

the park distance,

I'm assuming it requires air suspension and front cameras

with park distance control as options to order it.

You pull up the car actually lowers

to within a few centimeters of the top

of the inductive pad

and it can charge up to 11 kilowatts per hour.

I will read one interesting quote.

It says, the charging process is automatically interrupted

if a living creature gets between the vehicle

and the floor plate

or a metallic object lies on the ladder and heats it up.

So I was always wondering what it would be like

because cats like things that are warm

and if cats get in your garage, this is not a good thing.

But it's of course, you know,

Porsche thinks of just about everything.

I think that's pretty rad.

I know that we, you know,

aren't too excited about electric cars here

but unfortunately I think a lot of it is inevitable

and seeing continued innovation like this,

I think is really cool.

Yeah, definitely.

All right, Paul, you're next.

And I'll be really quick.

Turbo S news, it's been all over.

It's one of those things that I think they've trying to

typical, like if I was Jeremy Clarkson, he'd say,

oh my God, they changed one little part of the headlight

and they call it a new car.

It's only a little bit more horsepower.

It was 14 seconds faster on the Nurburgring

than the old one.

I think the big key is it's example of them

trying to figure out how to meet future cafe standards,

smog laws, emission laws and just squeezing the life

out of this flat six engine, which, you know,

we will never see a normally aspirated engine.

You know, well, we have the GT program,

but I don't know how those are gonna have

normally aspirated engines.

They're gonna have to have a hybrid.

But so you could read lots about that on the news.

My favorite part of the news, which I mentioned yesterday

was this dude in Czechoslovakia.

Right?

Yeah.

His Marbro liveryed, and actually if you check it out,

it's kind of funny, he kind of cut off the Marbro

a little bit.

He's not worried about getting caught by the police,

but he's worried about trademark

getting sued by Marbro, which I thought.

Well, explain what you're showing

to people that are listening.

Okay, so this guy in Czechoslovakia,

he took a open wheel race car that looks like,

he liveryed up to look like a Formula One car.

It is...

It was a Formula Two car, if I remember.

Casey, do you remember if it was?

Pretty sure.

The next class now, whatever the next class is.

Yeah, it was the next two.

Yeah.

Yeah, and basically for the last six years,

he has been zooming all over Czech Republic,

trying to, I guess, taunt police.

And lots of pictures.

It's awesome.

The police have been going crazy trying to catch this guy.

They finally caught him.

He comes in still fully dressed like Michael Schumacher

with a helmet, everything else.

And I think his name was Lukas,

and he denied that he ever went over 200 kilometers an hour,

which is only 124 miles an hour.

He did say that he was trying to show

that there weren't enough police

to do actual police activity.

They were too busy doing traffic stuff,

which he thought was a waste of police dollars.

I could kind of respect that.

So anyway, that kind of war, no one was hurt.

And it kind of spawned.

This went on for a while, didn't it?

Like this went on for six years.

Six years, six years.

They couldn't touch him.

And so my first thought is like,

and I mentioned like, we gotta do a segment.

If we could have, what car and what country

would we want to do something like this

and how would we do it?

Dressing like someone, doing like the Stig kind of identity,

what car would it be?

And just something ridiculous, you know,

like an airplane car.

I can transition this into our next segment.

We'll get there in a minute.

All right, perfect, Daisy.

Anyway, that's automotive news.

There you go.

Dave, the biggest automotive news,

I'm gonna go last so that Paul can't make fun of me

with my biggest automotive news,

but Dave, what's your automotive news?

Fair enough.

I just thought this was interesting,

obviously for Porsche.

And we've been talking about this for several episodes,

but this whole McCann issue,

they're number one selling cars

and the fact that they transition the whole thing to EV.

And as a result,

they're kind of caught flat-footed right now.

So they're trying to cut corners

on development of the next gen version of this car,

which is gonna be slightly smaller.

I think the code name model or M1,

I think is the internal designation for it at the moment.

But what they're basically doing

is stealing the Audi PPC,

the premium platform combustion motor

that they're gonna put in this,

but it's going to have a front wheel bias

on an all-wheel drive car,

which is the first time

that Porsche has ever done anything like this.

And I think they wouldn't have done it,

if they, that's my opinion at least,

if they didn't have to rush this car into production.

So I just thought that was interesting

in the fact that they're basically trying to,

you know, get a car back quickly to retail.

This is still 2028 before this car comes out.

But that seems sort of sacrilegious to Porsche peeps,

but you know, I don't know, what do you think, Paul?

Well, pardon my quick interruption,

when they developed the Macan initially,

only because I was with Porsche when this happened,

one of the first things that they did was, of course,

the Macan was based on the Audi Q5 platform.

So they basically put a Q5

and they put staggered tires set up on the car

and put wider tires on the rear of the car

and it lapped the Nurburgring multiple seconds faster.

So from that point,

and this was really the first car

that Porsche really did in conjunction with Audi,

they re-engineered a Q5 to be a Macan.

One of the most interesting things

is they moved the steering wheel

and a Q5 is offset to the right and a Macan,

they spent a tremendous amount of money

to move it directly in front of the driver

because that's important.

So while news outlets are reporting this,

I can guarantee you it's still gonna feel

like a Porsche when it comes out.

But I mean, Porsche isn't even able to sell,

if I'm not mistaken, internal combustion engine,

Cayman, Boxster and Macan in a lot of Europe

because of a lot of the things that have expired in that.

So yes, they are caught flat-footed for sure,

but I mean, everybody's scrambling at this point.

Let's talk about this

because you guys are all kind of saying the same thing.

We've talked about in the two previous shows too,

it's not in our agenda,

but do you guys think that, like,

first of all, the regulations in Europe

that are sort of trying to force consumers

to buy cars that they truly don't want,

the manufacturer seemed to be rebelling

against the bureaucrats, especially in Europe.

You can already see it happening in the United States.

The government essentially has reversed all the EV mandates.

I think they reversed even the one in your state.

The Trump administration basically said,

California can't have their own.

They were trying to, right?

What was the deal with that?

This came out like a couple of days ago

and it really pissed my dad off

and it's changing what his buying is.

The HOV lane, carpool lane,

it was scheduled for two,

in two years look at,

because right now if you've got an EV

or certain plug-in hybrids,

you get a sticker and you could drive on the HOV lane

with one person.

And then the federal government said,

no, we want that to end now.

We sort of voted and extended it to 27,

literally two days ago to us dealers,

they sent out a thing.

End of this month, September 30th.

The, all those stickers are void.

If you are, the only reason you are in an HOV lane

is because you have two or more people in your car,

no electric cars with one person, no plug-in hybrids,

which is huge because like my dad

who was gonna buy a plug-in hybrid

and he was hoping for like a Macan plug-in hybrid

just so he could use that

to come to the shop twice a week.

He's not going to buy a plug-in hybrid or electric now

because that was his only motivation.

So I'm fairly certain the federal government

doesn't have any control over California roads

except for the massive interstates.

And I'm fairly certain what you're describing

actually was a California thing

wasn't a federal government thing.

No, it did say in the statement it was federal government

because I think what happened was

the federal government was teasing them

with pulling federal road funding in general

if they didn't imply this.

And it was shocked.

I mean, it was just sort of like,

I get these bulletins as a dealer and it says,

okay, I'm just looking for new laws that affect what I do.

And I sent it to my dad and then I looked it up again

and I was like, what the heck is this?

And there was no voting.

I don't, I am surprised more people

aren't talking about it in the news

because I think it's gonna be huge.

Well, the point, the EVs in California,

of course it will be, right?

So that was those people now,

right, the quick link.

Right, the point I'm trying to make

is essentially the path that we are on

with everything becoming EV.

I don't really see how that path is gonna continue globally

because even Porsche, which has got what got me

on this thought, they're suffering really

because people don't wanna buy electric products.

They just don't.

And you can't force it by limiting availability

and saying you have fewer things to choose from.

What happens is that the consumers just pop

to another brand and then the brand

even suffers even more.

So I don't know, hopefully we're having

a return to sanity.

The future, I don't know what it is,

but for now it's definitely gonna be hybrid.

Speaking of which, you guys ready?

The biggest news ever, the biggest news ever

to ever, oh, Hush, Casey.

The biggest news ever to be announced on this podcast.

No, that's not true, but it's close.

The new Porsche SF90, I said Porsche.

Oh, oh, we got him.

We got him.

I blame Dave, Dave did it.

You brainwashed me.

The new Ferrari SF90 replacement, thank you, Dave.

The new Ferrari SF90 replacement.

Now I think it's fun, it is funny.

I intentionally, when I saw the pictures,

one of my friends was over in Milan

at the actual official release to the world of this car.

Ferrari does it right when it comes to announcing new cars.

But there was a massive press embargo on this car.

And I don't know if you guys have noticed,

you probably didn't even go to bother to look on YouTube.

But all the videos about the car,

they're all Italian journalists.

So Ferrari basically has lifted the embargo

on the Italian and European journals reports.

And then I assume the embargo is still in place

on the American and British one.

So I thought that was kind of cool.

But in any event, so that car is an upgrade for the SF90.

And I have to say so far from when I,

then I hopped over to Ferrari Chat

to see what the folks on Ferrari Chat thought,

because those guys do not hold their tongues

with their opinions.

And I would say of a hundred posts that I scanned through,

there are probably two people that like the looks of the car.

And, but the moral of the story is that.

I'm not one.

Huh?

I said, I'm not one.

It's an odd shaped car to me.

It's very imprecut.

Plus it's Testarosa, right?

They're re-bringing the Testarosa name

back on this car, right?

Yeah, I think they're using

the wrong nomenclature for the car.

They touted that they wanted it

to look like a 70s race car.

To me, it looks a lot like that SP3 thing

that they brought out,

but it's not as good looking.

But I agree with Dave.

I mean, Ferrari, the whoop-de-doo one was the F80.

That one is growing on me a little bit

because I do believe it looks like a Group C car.

But I agree with Dave.

I think, I mean, the SF90 was never for me.

Talk about a car that is worth not a lot now.

And I think that this might follow suit eventually.

What do you think, Tim?

I agree with pretty much everything you said

and you're right, the SF90, they haven't halved in value,

but it's pretty severe.

And whether or not, so this goes back

to the whole question about the whole hybridization.

People don't know whether or not,

the future is with hybrids or not.

But the reality of it is, is that how is an electric motor

that's giving more power to the car

that much different than say, for example,

turbos on a V8, right?

It's essentially just adding more power

and giving it more, the problem is the complexity.

What happens to these cars when they get miles on them?

Try to find somebody that knows how to work,

one of the, fix one of these things in 10 years or 15 years.

It's gonna be almost impossible.

So that's what kind of makes me nervous about it.

But as far as what I honestly think about the car,

I think it's beautiful.

So as far as Testarosa's go,

there was the Testarosa from the 80s, but there were of,

if you guys go all the way back to the 50s,

there were other Testarosa's as well.

And you're right, Casey,

they did borrow some of the SP3 Ascend on that car.

But here's what's interesting to me,

I think just from a marketing perspective,

is that the F80, which is a six cylinder,

twin turbocharged, a derivative of the motor in R296,

that car now is selling for five to six million

in private sales.

The start price on this car for the Berlinetta, the GTB,

is a 549.

And it does look very similar to the F80.

So I just think that's kind of interesting.

So-

And it looks very similar to Zorro.

That's all I see when I see that car.

The mask.

The mask there.

That's pretty good.

But here's ultimately my issue is when companies,

and Lamborghini did this when they relaunched the Countach

and they kind of blew it,

I just feel like marketing,

Testarosa is such an important name.

And if you think about it,

it wasn't like they sold out on it.

It was the Pontoon Testarosa.

Then you went decades until you got to the 80s

and they built truly a super car.

And I see this thing being like,

I feel like they just go,

what legacy badge can we give it to make it different?

They're trying to differentiate the car

through a marketing name versus action.

For sure, of course, it doesn't do that with the 911s.

For sure they don't.

Well, it's the Mustang Mocky thing.

No, no, all of it's crap.

But you know, when I saw this thing,

the first thing I thought was,

how cool would it have been to put the mirrors up high?

You know, like-

Or, yeah.

Or some streaks.

Or do something like the Monopostal

where they had the one up high

and then maybe do something with the camera on the other side.

So that would have been awesome.

Yeah, that would have been awesome.

Imagine if they did just, you know,

they've already got these vents down the side

and they did some subtle modern version of streaks.

I mean, you know, the side streaks,

which are so Testarosa.

Yeah, exactly.

But that's not even to tie the car together.

They did nothing that tied into the heritage of that car

from the 80s, which was a big miss for my opinion.

Yeah, it looks more like it could be a Roma.

It could be the car, whatever,

the one we just talked about that came out like months earlier.

I mean, so we talked about Porsche going,

doing the Ferrari game with their special editions

and stuff like that.

Is Ferrari doing the Porsche game

where they're just going to keep slicing the pie thinner

and they'll have four fundamentally look like the same car-

On the very, very high end, Paul,

that's what they're doing on the very, very high end.

They're coming out with all the,

it's called the Akana class.

So on the very high end,

they're coming out with all these limited run.

Casey mentioned one of the ones, the SP3s and there's others.

That's a pretty car.

Hell yeah, it is.

It's great.

So, but it is kind of fascinating

to watch people's reaction to new designs.

And I often wonder to myself, like, what car

can you guys think of?

I can think of one car as I think of this question.

What car came out where everyone universally

didn't like it and maybe it was two step forward

from the previous generation car

that over time people began to really fall in love

with it and said, damn, I didn't see that

in its era, but now I really appreciate it.

You guys think of one?

996.

I think, honestly, I don't think that one's made

round of the bend yet.

I don't think.

It's coming.

It is, but people buy it for the value.

And frankly, if you drive a GT3 version,

it's pretty awesome.

Casey, can you think of one?

One that in its era, people just thought,

but then over time, it sort of found its audience.

Nothing is really hitting my mind right now.

964?

It was.

So yeah, that's a good point, Paul.

The end.

Yeah, I mean, I didn't really, I mean,

I was galley seven when the 964 came out.

So I'm sorry.

I'm sorry to both of you, all three of you, I apologize.

But you are correct.

I mean, that car took a long time to get legs.

I mean, I remember I bought a Targa 964

in 18 or 17 for 12 grand.

Nobody wanted it back then.

Tim wants us to go to one car he's thinking.

And I'm trying to.

No, I've got it.

I've got it.

Well, give us a hint.

I was going for the Aztec, actually.

Aztec, I think that one's really been embraced.

People are really okay.

All right, comic relief from Dave.

I'll say the BMW, the Z3 BMW M coupe.

Yes.

Well, I mean, no, I don't think so because I mean,

I, that was the car, one of the few cars

I lusted after.

I had wallpapers, I had pictures everywhere,

vision board and I'm not a vision board person.

I wanted that car so badly and I did get it.

But I mean, I remember it's only.

It's talking clown shoe, right?

Like a clown shoe.

Yeah, clown shoe.

Clown shoe, okay.

I don't think it was universally hated.

I think there was a really a solid cult following

from the very beginning.

I think, well, here's one, the BMW,

what is it, 2004 M5, the E60?

The Bangal cars.

The Bangal cars?

I do believe that those were pretty hated.

People didn't like them.

Chris Harris talked about it, how when the car,

I think it was that generation of car,

when it came out, they brought out in England

a bad version of it and then they put

the sport package on it and everybody fell in love

with the car because of the way that it looked.

But yeah, I think I would agree with you,

Chris Bangal, a lot of his designs now

are much more applauded.

Yeah.

Which I don't understand, why the hell is that true?

Cause so when they came out of that new seven series,

oh my gosh, the car's still the ugliest thing ever.

And so that's not a good example.

The reason why is BMW figured out

how to make even uglier cars

so that those look pretty good.

Those have gotten better.

That was their strategy.

Chris Bangal is on there paying off designers

like, come on, man, give me a legacy.

And that's the tagline for today's episode.

Exactly.

How do you sell something by making it uglier?

Yeah, that is funny.

But seriously, the designs, the front end of those cars,

all the things, like what do you folks do?

You need to hop in the little time machine,

go back to the nineties and just copy what you are doing.

Anyway.

All right, so let's move on to the segment three.

If you guys are ready,

this one I think will be a lot of fun.

All right, so this is a segment or a conversation

that we like to bring up because it is very fascinating

because in our lives, with the exception of the,

in the eighties, when Casey was still in diapers

or not even born,

one of those two.

Might still be in diapers.

Depending on how long this podcast goes today.

Exactly, you got to put them on ahead of time, bro.

You got to plan.

So there has never been this many,

well, I'll say since the 1930s too.

There's never been this many coach built,

rest-o-mod, bespoke, hot rod,

wherever the heck you want to call them.

And so I'm seeing all these cars

and if you guys watched any of the media

that was coming out of especially the quail after car week,

there are so many more of these companies.

And God bless all of them.

I think it's fantastic, truthfully I do.

I think it's amazing.

But it doesn't matter.

It could be your classic alpha, it could be,

and we were joking that there's gonna be

somebody rest-o-modding in 1980s and 90s, you go,

watch it, it'll happen.

But what's the deal with that?

Is the new, and I'm wondering if there's going to be

almost a rejection or is the market gonna turn

against all these high-end rest-o-rods

and then start looking for cars that are going to be,

factory hot rods, factory cars that are now flat.

And I put you guys just to tee up the conversation.

I gave you guys some comps,

so you guys always use classic.com.

So if you look at the values of 964 R S's,

if you look at the value of one of my favorite cars ever,

993 GT2 or just 993 GT2 or GT02,

if you look at the values of those,

they've been flat for a long time.

All the while these rest-o-rod companies

increased their price, increased their price,

increased their price.

In my little P brain, that doesn't make any sense.

Discuss, Dave, you go first.

Well, I mean, I would agree.

I think that there's basically a handful,

I think Paul's obviously got one up

of these companies that are gonna probably stay around

and be relevant into the future.

You've got your singer, you certainly got roots

and maybe Tut Hill or somebody else like that,

but there's a bunch of these cars that are getting done

from lesser builders.

I mean, I would even, again,

I think we always look at this and say,

because we see so many things that have been cut up

over the years that somebody 25 years ago thought was,

oh, this is really cool, let's do this.

And now we're left trying to unwind it 25 years later

because too many people cut them up.

I mean, it's like, I feel about RWBs.

Forget about it.

I mean, those are cars that you're taking

a perfectly good 993 and just cutting the crap out of it

in such a terrible way.

I don't get the appeal of that at all

because I've seen these cars up close

and you start looking at taking bits and parts off

and they're terrible.

Forgive me for interrupting,

forgive me for interrupting,

but I have to say, I have a dream about it in RWB.

I have a dream about one day being in the position

to buy one, the biggest flares, the biggest wheels,

the gnarliest paint.

I want the camber and caster to be all screwed up.

I want to get that car and my dream is

to then return it back to original.

That'll cost you a hell of a lot of money, my friend.

Let me tell you that.

That's my fantasy in a part.

I have a buddy in North Carolina

that can probably do that work for you.

Exactly.

I mean, so Tim, you mentioned that we haven't seen this

and I think actually when you look at the financial markets,

you saw this in the 20s, the roaring 20s.

All kinds of crazy cars were coming out of the 20s.

Dusenberg was building some outlandish stuff

that people go, ooh, Dusenberg's an important car today.

By the 30s, it was almost gone

and by the 40s, it was gone.

Then you go to the 50s, post-war success,

you have Tucker's and all these other men.

It's doing it all over again

and then all of a sudden the consolidation to the big three.

And now, and by the way, you go to the 80s

and you have builders like Strahmann.

That's dope.

All kinds of stuff.

That's dope.

Alon, man.

That's it.

Yeah, you have Strozik and Koenig

building, you know, here's, that's a roof.

Oh yeah, Strozik, you know.

Oh, God, oh.

I saw one of those at Rensport.

I thought it was great.

People were taking pictures.

It was awesome.

Yeah, no, I know that car.

You guys are on a freak show at that point.

It's the freak show.

But hold on a second, but hold on.

Sorry for interrupting you, Paul,

but Casey's not being, he's being a little bit sarcastic.

But what these guys are actually,

what Casey's actually saying

is actually how people's brains are thinking

because they like this stuff.

They like the custom one off stuff.

And I'm just wondering how long that trend's going to last.

I think they like this as ironic, cool,

because it was drug dealer 80s.

It was just over the top.

And then we looked at it horrible.

Now even going to the slant nose,

we're going, you know,

Porsche got in the slant nose game

because DP, you know,

it was developed for racing with Kramer Racing and DP.

Then all of a sudden,

aftermarket tuners are doing it

and Porsche is sort of doing it special wishes

and finally in 87, they said, fine,

we're going to price this thing so ridiculous,

20 grand for a body kit by Porsche,

poorly installed.

But this was interesting.

This is an Allen Johnson Racing 930 kit.

So Porsche realized very quickly

they absolutely hated doing these kits.

Allen Johnson, who was a Porsche dealer in San Diego

says, you know what?

I'll do those kits

because you guys at Porsche

do a pretty crappy job putting it on.

I can do it better.

In fact, when we get clients who order 930 slant noses,

we're fixing half the shit.

And by the way, we can't get a 930S,

which by the way,

people think a 930 slant nose is a 930S.

It is not.

S is the power kit that's the 330 horsepower.

So you could go into Allen Johnson Racing in San Diego.

He would order a factory kit.

He would install it way better

and then he would bump the power.

So you could kind of get a 49 state legal 930S slant nose.

Very cool, way more expensive

than what you could buy at the factory.

And guess what?

Today, half of a slant nose price.

You know, apples to apples.

Okay, so you're making the point

that even very well done,

rest of rods in era don't age well over time.

You know, it was actually,

I learned from you, Paul,

Roof actually doesn't,

he built a one slant nose,

but he said he didn't like the design of it.

And Dave, if you could just move slightly

to the right, you're right.

Yeah, and he specifically said

he didn't like how the front hood

flowed into the windshield.

He thought it was too much of an angle.

I'd never seen it before,

but once you see it, you can't unsee it.

He's so right.

Yeah, sorry, Dave, thank you.

Which by the way, the slant nose is very short-lived

and by the 90s,

they just represent this era of decadence,

drug dealer, cocaine, you name it.

And then the irony is the 993

that's so beloved when you look at his side elevation.

It looks like a fricking slant nose,

but for whatever reason,

Tony Hatter pulled off the design with it.

But my point being is this,

we're going through the same cycle.

This Resto mod, I would say,

is the most obviously sophisticated

because we have access to all kinds of technology.

And money.

And money, exactly.

And there's, you know,

you look at Gunther Works,

that is, every time I go there,

and it's right down the street from it,

I am astounded at what kind of facility it is.

The runway of money that they've built

to make sure that thing can build 30 cars a year

or less or whatever is astounding.

Cause I remember Singer when they first started,

they didn't look much different than, you know,

TLG or you name your, any old school shop.

So, so I would say-

How does Gunther Works hold up?

How do you think that holds up 10 years from now?

I don't,

Is there still a million dollar cars?

I think 10 years-

You can buy one for-

But this is the whole conversation.

In the long run, how does it hold up?

Yeah.

It's hard to say.

I mean, number one,

has to be incredibly well-built car.

That's what's given roof legs.

But you also gotta remember,

yellow birds and BTRs,

especially BTRs and even the 996 variant roof cars,

up until like five minutes ago,

they weren't worth that much more.

I think we're experiencing this,

the whole Resto-Mod thing coming along

where Porsche is now building them.

You've got premier builders like Tuttle,

and you've got now roof is,

you know, roof is getting recognition

for stuff that they've been doing this whole entire time.

But the end of the day, you know,

here was a really well-built,

almost factory kind of thing,

by a factory race team

with a Porsche dealership license.

And now for 30, 40 years later,

it doesn't hold up anymore.

It's worth half.

You brought up that other company.

You saw that company's super car, hyper car,

wherever the hell it is.

If you could throw that picture back up again,

I'm trying to remember the name of those guys.

The Zinger one?

Yeah, the Zinger, thank you, Zinger.

Oh, the Zinger, okay, yes.

I watched, in preparation for today's show,

yes, I do my homework.

I watched a long interview with this guy,

and unbelievably smart,

unbelievably all the things, right?

And one of the things that he said,

which I thought was very interesting,

is he said they're going to,

they're moving towards a moment in time

where you can show up at their facility in LA,

and you can sit down with their designers,

and you can actually, to your point,

Paul, about 20s and 30s cars,

you can design your own one-of-one super car.

It's not a variation of a 911,

like all these other things are.

And so if they're able to do that with 3D printing,

which evidently they are,

that is in my mind,

where this super selective bespoke market's gonna go.

And I think these guys that are doing restor rods

on existing cars,

I think they're gonna lose their buyers,

and it's a very tiny niche,

but very well-heeled niche to the Zingers of the world,

because Zinger is gonna probably start creating a technology

and selling it and licensing it to other one-off manufacturers.

And we could talk about AI,

and we could talk about all these other things,

but it's just fascinating to be alive right now

and being a car enthusiast

and see all these changes happening so quick.

It's exciting.

It just truly is.

I mean, you've got power sources changing.

You got energy sources changing.

You've got design technology changing.

And I think I look at someone like Zinger

and really the 3D printing part is really cool.

Most people, they go, oh, that's kind of cool.

And then they kind of are blasé about it.

They don't realize like what you've mentioned Tim,

which is the future applications.

Right now they're kind of unique selling propositions.

They've got this sort of tandem seating weird thing.

And I love Matt Farah as, you know, close.

He says, you know, this is not a great car.

However, it's a fairly superb fighter plane

and people need those too.

I mean, that's kind of, it's sort of this sort

of comedy thing, but in the end,

if Zinger can get out of the way of the hubris,

which is tough when you named a company after yourself,

if you can get out of the way of it,

I can see someone like a Pagani going,

we wanna buy your technology because our buyers.

But that's exactly you hit the nail on the head.

And I don't know that very good.

And so they're designing now major components for Bugatti

and for, I figured who the other manufacturers are.

Have you guys seen one of their control arms?

Casey, I'd really...

The Zinger control arm?

Have you guys seen it?

Oh, it's crazy.

So I watched, I think it was Top Gear UK

that I think I sent to you,

but it was Jethra Bovington did a real deep dive

into the car and drove it.

And I did, it's, I mean, I think it's tremendous

what they're doing, the design of the parts.

I mean, it's all basically designed

so that the littlest amount possible of metallic material

or whatever they're using is used in order to save weight.

And I really believe that that is the future

of manufacturing.

And I do believe that they are a tech company

and like how, I hate to say Rivian's not a car company,

but if you look at the stock that I own,

it doesn't look like that,

but Rivian sold a ton of technology to Volkswagen Group.

And that's really, I believe,

what is keeping them being a company

because they do it very, very well.

And I think Rivians are great cars.

If I had, like, if they bring out

that small Rivian thing, whatever it is,

that kind of looks like a lot of, I would buy that car.

I would lease it.

Sorry, I would lease it.

I would not rest three or whatever it is.

But can you get, let's fast forward into the future, right?

And because of AI, we're all younger looking.

We all, you guys have your hair back.

I mean, all the things, right?

AI's caused all the reversal of age.

Okay, so it's in the future now.

And you want to go buy a new Porsche.

Can you see Envision going to the Porsche dealership

and literally sitting down with them

and designing your own car?

I'm not going to the dealership.

I'm going to be on my laptop

for whatever hologram doing my configurator,

which it also says how many, would you like a four-seater?

Would you like them side by side?

But you guys, can you guys see that as being a thing?

Do you think that'll happen?

Do you think it could happen?

Sure, certainly could.

So what's the major?

Is that good or bad for the industry though?

Because I look at this and the concept

that you're describing, though,

eats at the fundamentals of kind of building this brand.

And, you know, when you said it as Porsche,

it made me recoil a little bit only

because how do you then be free to bespoke car?

If your cars bespoke every single time,

then what are the things,

the themes that are tying it all together?

And then what will the then future generations

be lusting after?

What version of this minger

is somebody going to be thinking

this is the greatest car ever

when everyone's unique?

They'll do their own.

I mean...

Well, no, I think 911, Porsche and BMW,

there'll be things you can configure,

wheels or whatever.

I think they'll limit it like,

okay, it's cool, guys still have a 911 headlights.

It's got to have the things

that aesthetically identify it and brand it.

Going to Dave's point, if it's just everything,

then what are you buying from Porsche?

The engine, the build quality,

but I think people also...

Just losing some of the brand conscious.

Yeah, yeah.

Losing some of the DNA that ties it together.

The guy that was running Ferrari that passed away,

people called them the sweater.

I don't remember his name.

Sorry for not remembering his name.

In any event, he's the one that came out and said,

Ferrari is a fashion brand.

And everyone was like, what the hell does that mean?

Well, fast forward, we can see what it means.

So when every car is fast,

when every car looks beautiful,

when every car is limited edition,

when they're only making 500 of every car,

every car has got all these widgets

and the gadgets and the technology

and all the rest of it,

what ultimately is going to draw somebody?

Why does a woman pay $30,000 for an AMA's purse

that a normal purse does the same thing?

It's because they want to have the attachment

to what the brand is supposed to,

is telling them that they'll,

how they'll feel about themselves

and how other people will see them.

That's what we're experiencing.

And I don't think, honestly, Dave, to your question,

I don't think the older or I'll say the more seasoned,

I don't know what word I'm supposed to be using here,

a car enthusiast gives a shit about that.

I don't think they care about that.

They're like Paul, most of Paul's enthusiasm

for his porches is because of his community.

Casey, you're the same way.

You guys love the community.

And I respect that.

But I don't think the next generation of buyers,

I don't think they're tied in like that truthfully.

I really don't.

I think they're tied into,

it's the Instagram effect, really.

I mean, you know.

So I know that we've got-

The current hotness is?

Let Casey go.

Sorry, Casey.

I know we've not talked much about,

I mean, the topic at hand is rest of months, right?

And Paul got us right.

So Zinger doesn't fit in there.

But the thing that I need to point out,

first of all, you were talking about my bad taste.

My generation loves,

my generation, I was born in the early 80s.

The tuner world was cool.

And that makes StroSec interesting to me.

I would never own one, but when I saw it,

if I saw a StroSec next to a 959,

I glance at the 959 and then I go look at the StroSec

because it's weird.

But Paul, if you could put the convertible Testros up.

Would you like that version?

Yeah, so top down, please.

Look how sick.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Go back to the white one.

Okay, go back to the white one.

But it is sexy with the top up.

It is not.

It looks like a barcad of 550, but worse.

So if you look at this,

so basically for me,

and I loved the video game OutRun, okay?

It's an 80s video game.

I'm sure everybody that is on this podcast

is familiar with the game OutRun,

but they drove a convertible Testrosa.

And I believe that game did more marketing for Ferrari

than Ferrari did for the whole Testrosa.

And Ferrari didn't even build the car.

And that to me is more interesting.

I think what a lot of these cars like Zinger are

is it's lacking romance.

It's lacking emotion.

Like a machine printing something is cool,

but then we go back to what,

last week we talked about that Petrolicious video

on Rod Emery's son-in-law,

where he took a piece of metal.

I guess it was probably steel

and was rolling it an English wheel.

And it was showing me how someone cared so much

about producing a panel of a vehicle

that was going to go on a car.

That's what gets me going.

And when I look at the history of RestoMods

and their companies like Tudhill

that were involved with the SCRS rally program

in the early 80s with Porsche,

which is mind blowing to me,

they actually made the car better.

And then you look at companies like Roof.

I was listening to the Car Mudgeon podcast

and they were talking about riding

in these new roofs along with Aluiz.

And just talking about the passion

that this gentleman has for his cars.

That to me is a selling point.

And I do believe Gunther,

I look after a Gunther Speedster.

The build quality is really great

and it's got a great engine.

I have some experience with Singer cars.

They're cool, but I like something

with a little bit more history.

And when I see a car like Tudhill

and I read an article in triple zero magazine

that talks about how they've actually made SCRS's

better cars, which I believe

is one of the coolest Porsches ever built.

When you see that progress and with Roof

and what they're becoming now,

that to me is what would cause me

to want to buy one of those cars.

These other things don't interest me.

Forgive me for interrupting you.

And I agree with everything you're saying.

You clearly have an old soul

for somebody in this early 40s,

but I'm going to say I'll suggest this

and the jury's still out.

But from my past experience

in this last year at Car Week,

I would suggest and I don't like saying this,

but I don't think the next generation,

which are younger than you,

care about the history at all.

No, not at all.

And I agree and that's who in 20 years

is going to lust after buying a Singer.

But don't you think the boomers

or the guys who are older than us, Tim,

might have been saying that about us too.

It's just, I think their starting point

of history is different.

So you take a millennial who's born in the 90s,

really their influence is mid 2000s.

What they say, you're a car person,

like 14 is the defining age of a car person

because you're reading the mags,

you can't drive so everything's dangling fruit.

So that would put them at like mid 2000s.

So we're just saying they won't identify the history.

I'm saying their history starts at the 997,

if you're talking Porsche, Ferrari F430.

And that is their historical point.

And don't forget, Roof to them

is possibly a millennial company,

possibly stodgy and old,

whereas Gunther Works or Singer,

especially being really started in the mid 2000s,

Singer might be the legacy company.

They might be the OG Resto Mod.

Emory Outlaw might be the,

that might be the historical anchor for them.

We're just, we can't imagine it

because we come from an era where the Resto Mods,

when we see Resto Mods in the 80s,

we think of this bullshit,

but I'd full on drive that.

I wouldn't drive that, but I would drive this.

I wouldn't drive that.

And if I did, I'd never put the top up.

But that, so I just think it's hard for us

to put ourselves in the perspective of

what someone in their 20s is gonna call historical.

Tuttle is really cool,

but I don't think any,

Tuttle has been around for a long time.

We love it, because the ethos,

because he is definitely anchored in the 70s.

But the problem is,

Tuttle didn't really come on the scene for America

until maybe 10 years ago.

So I don't know, I mean,

I can't speak for Europe and England,

what they think of it.

Maybe to them, that's their singer, who knows.

So which one holds more value over time?

So let's look at singer who's taking a 9-11

and backdating it.

So they're going backwards with the appearance,

making a newer car effectively look like an older car.

Okay, pulling on the Heritage of Porsche

versus a Gunther Works car,

which in my opinion is taking the older car

and making it look newer.

And as a result,

which one is there a preference there?

Because to me, every time I see a forward dated 74,

it's made to look like a 964.

I'm throwing up in my mouth.

I hate it.

Paul, give me two seconds.

Go ahead.

No, no, no, no.

So I was curious about that myself,

and I'll tell you what I was really surprised to learn.

Gunther Works is definitely hotter

with the younger generation.

No doubt, because of the reason you're saying

they don't have any attachment to the old longhood,

whatever, whatever.

They're loving that new Gunther Works thing.

There was a Formula One driver

that flew in for a car week,

who was driving one of those things.

So it's okay not to understand where the market is going,

but I will say this,

the one thing that does scare me for that

is that if there's not enough people to restore

and take after what you do, Dave,

or who's going to want to learn how to take care

of an old 911 as the generation ages out

of the demand for those cars shrinks?

I just don't know.

But it's going to be fascinating to watch.

Somebody will.

You will.

You guys right now.

I mean, that's why so many of these old,

air-cooled cars are going to EFI.

I mean, that's the big push for EFI

is there's fewer people that know how to do MFI or care,

even carburetors, which were ubiquitous.

They got rid of the MFI

and put carburetors on,

because everyone spoke carburetors.

Fewer people speak carburetors.

And now EFI, there's a lot more people who speak EFI

and it's, I'm sitting here.

I have a car that we need to have some EFI tuning to.

And as an old school guy,

I've got tons of guys that could fix,

tune for carburetors, MFI.

I am now trying to get hold of the one guy,

trust, or at least know to do EFI tuning.

So...

What's in that?

O-TEC?

I don't know.

MSD?

No, it starts to the age.

Can't think of the name.

Haltech.

You just need to add that one to your permanent collection,

Paul, clearly.

You know what?

And I'll tell you right now,

the owner wants something else.

He is selling it for such a screaming deal.

And if I wasn't in the current health situation,

I would buy it because the problem with this car

is someone, you know what they say,

like someone thought that they were a designer

and they did things because they liked it,

thinking, well, it's my car,

I'll do it the way they want,

but it hurt the value.

And I would do some cosmetic changes to this thing,

put about 15, 20 grand,

have a hoot with it over the next year,

and then I would sell it on, bring a trailer,

and I think it would kill.

It just doesn't,

just we're in the wrong party dress.

That's all.

Go ahead, what's the number on that car?

What would be the number?

It's listed at 150.

It was over 300 to build.

The price is better than that,

and I can't say it, but you can call me.

I talked to the owner this morning on Facebook, good dude.

Oh, the owner of this car?

Yeah.

Yeah, he's great.

He's great.

And it just kills me.

He's gonna have Casey consign it on, bring a trailer.

The owner hasn't told you yet, Paul.

I'm gonna buy it, I'll fix it up,

and then Casey'll do it for me.

You should watch the Stanceworks YouTube channel,

because Mike Burroughs only uses Haltech on his projects,

and I guarantee that he has a guy

that could tune that car.

Yeah, I have one guy who comes up to Good Vibes,

who's the one who's worked on it in the past,

so I'm trying to reach out to him if I can't.

Mike was the other one, which,

but going back to the question about the Resto mods,

you know, it kills me to say that a Gunther works in,

let's say, well, let's see, these millennials,

let's say the 20-somethings,

when they're in their late 40s,

so let's just say 25 years from now,

and you're at a gooding auction,

or RM auction at Monterey,

is one of these, a true yellowbird

that's selling for five, six million,

is it going to outpace a Gunther works?

All right, so stop there,

because that's segment five,

and I love how you're moving the conversation along today,

that's great.

All right, so let's go on to the next question,

segment four, you guys ready?

All right, so what are the most overhyped cars today

that will not hold interest or value over time?

And David, why don't you go first?

I just, well, for me,

and I think it's a quantity,

both from a media onslaught for me personally,

as well as just the cars in general,

and I don't have a picture of it,

because there you go, Paul's got a picture of it,

thank you, Paul, this is the Corvette,

both any of these Corvettes, right?

At the moment, Chevy can't give them away,

there's so many, and I'm not talking about the high-end cars,

but just the General C8s,

they're discounting the crap out of them

because they're sitting there on dealer showroom floors

and they just can't move them,

and I think that was back to a conversation we had

about quantity of a supercar versus the quality.

I mean, this is a fantastic car

that seems to beat every car that rolls out on it,

on the drag strip and all the YouTube videos I see

where it's running against a Huracan

or running against a Ferrari,

and the Corvette wipes the ass of these two cars with it

time after time, after time,

but when it comes down to it,

these guys that will have paid the huge money

for the Z06 or the ZR1,

because they were limited a few years from now,

the bottom just falls out of those cars,

so for me, it's a value thing,

and that's my overhyped car right now.

And you're not a Corvette hater either,

because your next example on it,

and please do mention it,

because I think this is interesting,

because frankly, I'm looking at other notes

that people are kind of agreeing with you.

So talk about the next one.

Well, I feel the same way,

yeah, I feel about the same way about the ST, right?

The 911 ST, which I think I've not driven one.

Casey, I'm dying to hear about your experience this week

as you take that thing for a little spin,

although obviously I think it's still got

delivery miles on it, right, or something.

Yeah, I'll get to that

when you guys get to me in a second.

Okay, but I think that car is overhyped.

It says, when it's all said and done,

it's another 911, right?

So you're paying what,

$200, $300, $400,000 over sticker

for some of these cars right now?

That's just insane.

Why would you do that?

The prices on those are settling down

to reality pretty quick.

There's one that just closed, really pretty car.

It's on bat.

I actually, I think I put it in the notes.

It's a blue one.

And I think there were some selling like a month ago

for $750, $850, like real sales.

And I think this one was in the mid-500s.

But you know, your point, Dave,

is that the parts transference is what Ferrari does,

which frankly, pisses a lot of people off.

You guys know what the Pista is?

Hey, Paul, what's the Pista?

Ferrari 488 Pista, Ferrari Quiz.

I think it's a Pasta that's spun a certain way

to hold the needles.

All right, so the Pista, all the special cars at Ferrari,

I'll be quick, don't worry.

You guys can't, won't agonize for long.

All right, always had special motors.

Well, Ferrari took the special motor in the Pista

and put it in the production, F8.

And then they took that same motor

and they put it in the SF90.

They're taking that same motor

that was originally the Pista

and they're putting in this new Testerosa.

Well, what makes you think the Porsche

is not gonna do the same thing

with all these cool little bangles and bangles

that made the ST so amazing?

Of course it's gonna be parts transference.

No, it might not have magnesium parts

and all this other stuff,

but most people will never be able to tell a difference.

So I agree, actually.

I'm worried about those ST values,

especially as more of them come off lease.

But so that argument went back 10 years ago, 911 R

and the 991.2 GT3 Touring.

And there was tons of back-to-back comparisons.

Now, ironically, everyone I speak to

who owns one swears by it.

Even our friend, Dirk,

who I would expect to say they're the same thing.

He owns one and I always felt like,

is this the emperor has no clothes?

Or is that argument,

is they different enough to command triple the value?

But Kramer, the parts transference,

but there wasn't that much.

The original R legitimately had a lot of special stuff

that the production,

I think the story goes that Porsche was like,

holy crap, people are willing to pay that

for a wingless GT3, right?

Essentially, I know that's not true, but it's basically it.

And the parts transference to the Touring,

it wasn't that much.

Whereas on these new cars, it's a lot.

I mean, how many different cars does Porsche put

their GT3 or GT3 RS motor in?

A lot.

And so all I'm saying is to validate

or agree with Dave's point,

the ST, I think maybe suffering from,

well, what's the new car gonna have?

Oh, it's got all the ST parts,

because that's what Ferrari does.

And Ferrari got away with it, Porsche will try too.

Casey, what are you thinking as we Yammer?

So I think the key difference

between talking about Porsche GT product

and talking about Corvette product is,

Corvette, I remember I had a friend that bought a Z06

and he was excited to pay 50 grand over for the car.

He was excited.

I got one, I got 50 grand over.

Six months later, that was a 50 grand under car.

When we look at a Porsche,

what people are willing to pay for it

is not going to transfer to,

in a year from now,

it's gonna be worth half of the original MSRP.

That's the difference.

That's the difference between looking at a 911 ST

that's a 300 and a couple of thousand,

I don't even know what they are,

20, 23, 30?

About 300, yeah.

So you get a 300, the 911 ST

will always be worth $335,000, 100%.

These people that, because there's no,

because basically they're coming off of lease now

because owners have owned them for a year,

which means that they can flip them.

And now that the first guy,

I think the first one on Bring a Trailer

sold for 800 plus fees.

And it was a sure blue car, not that exciting.

It's the same one that I'm gonna be in a,

well, I'll get to that in a second,

but it's a cool car.

A lot of them are sure blue.

It's communication color.

It's like white GT4 RSs,

which I think in the long run

are the best looking GT4 RSs.

So the ST will probably work on me the same way.

But coming back to it,

an ST is never gonna be worth $150,000

unless it's a quarter of the car

that was in a really bad accident.

A Corvette is going to have that diminished value

because Porsche always builds less cars

than the market demands.

That's not the mindset with most car companies.

They will build as many cars as possible

if they have people that want to buy them.

Let's just hope Porsche doesn't do the same thing.

And I'll go next, and Paul, you can go last

because your points are pretty much,

so I'll go with anything.

Again, the question is,

what are the most overhyped cars today

that will not hold value or interest over time?

And I'll just summarize it, anything EV.

I can't see anything EV being

something that someone's gonna want in the future.

Hummer EV, Tesla Cybertruck,

Porsche Macan, or Taycan, turbo GT,

whatever the top influencers are all yammering about now,

that's my secondary thing.

So the influencers are bringing up,

again, the younger generation,

they're hyping up cars that when every,

all the other influencers that are competing with

for attention on Instagram in particular,

this sounds so insane for me to say this,

but I know what's happening.

So as soon as all those influencers are all,

oh my gosh, you gotta get a G63 or G-Wagon

or whatever or a Porsche Sangway.

Soon as they all get them,

then someone's gotta play the one ups game.

And the example would be like a Lamborghini Aventador.

The influencers were all driving the SVJs

and the roadsters and all the rest of it.

And then when all of them were driving the same cars,

then what'd they hop up to, the Bugattis?

So if you wanna know what cars are gonna be,

in my opinion, they're the most overhyped,

they won't hold their value, anything EV

and anything that the influencers

are now saying are the cars to get

because that'll just be completely topsy turvy.

Paul?

Well, I mean, so just humor me with this quick montage

and this is my argument.

You look at it, I mean, they look.

They're all green.

They all look the same.

I mean, they're like, they look like,

if you- Listen to this, Paul is showing pictures

of hypercars that all look the same.

And if you went back to my Indian guides,

Pinewood Derby cars day, that's what kind of we built.

You know, you have the McLaren Senna,

you have the Remac, it was a Remac

or however you pronounce it.

You have the Koenigsegg

and you have the ZR1X Corvette.

And I think at the end of the day,

who's gonna care about these cars?

In there, I just don't see it.

I mean, the McLaren Senna looks like

every other McLaren they made for the last decade.

Ultra-modern things don't tend to age well.

Now, I mean, think about the cars of the future,

the Futurama stuff from back in the 60s or whatever.

And you look at those cars today

that were supposed to be super high-tech

and aerodynamic and all that.

There's just no, they don't age well.

How is that?

Sorry, this is the Koenigsegg, this is the Remac.

I mean, I think, I don't even know.

But you know what guys?

Casey really said it right

when he said the word romance.

There's no romance or there's no emotional tie

because they're just the next lawn dirt

is what those all look like, right?

But I'm not really sure how much

that will matter to the younger generation

because a lot of them, because of their age,

are buying cars to try to impress other people.

They're buying it to hate using this term,

but deflects not because they're true car enthusiasts.

Now, some of them might become true car enthusiasts,

but time will tell.

Casey, go ahead, sorry.

I was at a, the guy that does my body work for me locally,

really awesome guy named Nick.

You guys would all like him a lot.

Very, very, very talented.

I was at his shop the other day

and he prepares amazing cars like ESO Grifos for Monterey.

And I was up there the other day and he had a 275

and just raw aluminum sitting on a buck

being smoothed out by people

that really knew what they were doing.

And that car just in that-

You're saying a Ferrari 275?

Yeah, just in just, I mean, the stuff that he does, Tim,

if you ever come up this way, I'll take you there.

Were they steel or alloy, Casey, do you know?

I think they were aluminum back then, if I'm not mistaken.

No, they were steel.

The alloy was really, really rare.

You should ask him.

Okay, well, it shows what I know about Ferraris,

but just looking at that car sitting there

in that state was just breathtaking.

And I am not often smitten,

but if you look at a car like that,

and I'm not even that big of a Ferrari guy,

but just seeing that in that form was just perfect.

Why?

Just because the shape and the essence of the car

just being in its presence made me feel something.

And it's hard to say that.

I mean, the only other car that I get like that

around anymore is like 300 SLs.

Like a really nice 300 SL Roadster or Gullwing.

You're saying something that's really awesome

and I wanna drill down on this.

So you were not, you thought the shape was beautiful

and it touched you emotionally.

You weren't attracted to it

because other people were telling you to be attracted to it

or because maybe you had some genealogy

with the car because your dad had one.

The design itself is really what blew you away.

I think that's actually a high point in today's podcast.

That's very interesting because that's what,

and that's what everyone's looking for.

They're looking for that little,

that little emotional attachment to something.

And I love the fact that Casey had that experience

with the Ferrari because that's the gateway drug

for me to convert him into even more Ferrari stuff.

But when was the last time Casey, prior to that,

you ever had that emotional like, damn, that's gorgeous?

Well, I think it's archetypal.

I mean, I think it's like something

that's ingrained in humans.

You see shapes, you see these things that just,

to me, it made me feel like, God,

if I could really, Ferrari Daytonas,

like there was that top gear episode

where I think Richard Hammond drove one

around Lake Como a zillion years ago

and it was amazing, he was racing somebody in a boat

and somebody, I think James May was in the airplane.

But to me, the only other car,

like Porsches I see all the time,

if I'm around a 550, if I'm around an RSK, a 906,

those cars do it.

But the only other one that's done it recently

as I saw in all original,

it might have been resprayed a long time ago,

but it was this pewter colored beat 300 SL roadster,

300 SL Gullwing, and it just looks so good.

I agree.

You and I have the same thing.

So Casey, McLaren Senna in its raw form, like the 275,

this isn't gonna emotionally drive you right there.

I take care of McLaren Senna's.

I drive McLaren Senna's, it's cool.

To me, if you had to buy a McLaren,

it is the most interesting one.

However, it's not for me.

It's a hard versus head thing, right?

That's really what we're describing.

Right, it's the difference between a zinger

and a roof yellowbird.

But it's a thing that exists in a computer

versus a thing that exists like Rod Emery's son-in-law

that's rolling that piece of metal on an English wheel.

This would be a bad time to let you know

that we're all living in a simulation.

I don't know if you studied the simulation theory,

we all might be a little-

I saw the matrix.

Yeah, exactly.

But the point being, going back to what Casey said is,

and there's a shop near us in Costa Mesa

where he does Ferrari things.

And just seeing even the raw body,

modern cars, you don't see a raw body.

Even when I was at roof looking at taking a tour,

they all looked the same.

They're this weird fiberglass monocoque

that they hang panels on.

So you never really see it

in this sort of raw, complete silhouette

as it was hammered on a buck.

So maybe, and that's the one thing that's different

from today versus all the previous years,

is like going back to what Casey said,

that the romance, you can't see it in its raw form.

It is a computer-driven image that suddenly becomes a car.

And then, okay, great.

And as a result of being a computer-driven image,

they all start looking the exact same.

So the question that Casey actually brought up.

I love what he calls me Kramer.

He's just like,

I know, I know.

You started on me at the top of the show, bro.

I'm getting you back.

All right, so if you did not read the comments over there,

I said, we need to stop talking over each other,

except for when Paul was talking.

So the question is that Casey brought up

is when was the last time you saw a car

and you stopped being so damn,

you were more brand agnostic

and it just like emotionally touched you.

Like the first time you saw some female thing

where it was like, oh my gosh,

that's a whole aspect of life

I've yet to discover that kind of thing.

Yeah, I mean, like we were talking earlier,

the M-Coupe, the Z3M-Coupe floored me.

And I became obsessed, the clown shoe, I had to have it.

But it's interesting that you try,

a lot of our analytical brains

try to convince ourselves something's beautiful

and we discount the emotional reaction to it

because it's easier for designers to sell us

and marketers to sell us on this top speed

and the tires and all this, you know,

analytical spreadsheet shit

that's really hard to have an emotional attachment

to a product.

Dave, how about you?

When was the last time you saw something

that just emotionally like, holy shit,

I wasn't expecting that feeling.

This is gonna blow you away, Tim,

but it was the picture that I sent you

probably a couple of weeks ago

when I really hurt the late eyes

in a exterior setting and was paying attention

to the 296 and walked up on one

in a not the typical, you know,

Rosa Corsa color and it was just kind of blew me away.

It was a Ferrari that I actually liked

because most of them do not appeal to me at all physically.

But that car, I just thought the lines of that car,

it wasn't overdone.

It was a beautiful car.

So I was kind of like, wow, okay,

there's a Ferrari I can get behind.

So I really did like that car.

That's the only modern car that I think is beautiful.

That's, I agree.

That's the 296 is the only modern car

I think is beautiful, all the others.

And I'll tell you what one of the ugliest cars is

and I'd love to get viewer hate

or listener hate from this.

I think the GT3 RS is an abomination

but I still want one.

So you can do sideshow takeovers in Puerto Rico.

But I still, no, I wouldn't have it here.

But I still, I think the car is amazing.

I desperately want one.

I'm going to have one, but it is crazy looking.

It just, you can't say that car is beautiful.

You can't, you can say it's menacing.

You can say it's purposeful, but it's not beautiful.

To Casey's point, there's no romance in that.

I mean, your wife or your girlfriend gets into that thing

just because you're taking to a nice restaurant.

That's it.

Do you think that, I mean, the reason that Ferrari

doesn't do Nurburgring lap times is because they do work

more towards aesthetics on their vehicles

rather than aerodynamics and building cars

that specifically are designed to lap tracks

at an insanely fast speeds?

Yeah, 100% think so.

And you can remember the tradition of Ferrari

is that Enzo used to go to Pina Farina

across town, I told you guys the story before.

And I heard the story from Pina Farina

when Julia and I were at Pina Farina in Toronto

or Torino or whatever it is, years ago, 2011,

that in essence, Enzo had a contract for a long period of time

to buy all of his body specifically from Pina Farina.

Pina Farina would design these cars, Enzo would show up

and he said, I like that one.

And then basically that would be the design

and he'd take that body back

and then the engineering would happen

after they decide what the car was gonna look like.

And so it's done by completely different people.

You can tell that Ferrari is no longer using Pina Farina

and now they're using an internal design house

that's doing the designs.

You can tell it doesn't have that same casey,

romantic look to it, with the exception of the 296.

The 296 is the last one that sort of had

the curvaceous, beautiful, it looked modern

but at the same time, there's a little bit

of homage involved, it was a perfect organic design.

I don't mean to, yeah.

I mean, I love the Roma, I think the Roma is pretty.

I agree, actually.

Design elements with that, but I just,

I like how simple and I also like the fact

that the name of the car is not a number,

which is a personal thing.

I wish we could have that.

So if you were to have these cars,

let's assume that none of us had any relationship

with any of these brands right now.

That we had no 30 year history loving Porsches

or Ford, whatever the case.

And you put this VT3 RS next to a 296,

next to a McLaren, whatever.

Artura would be competition.

Yeah.

Okay.

What car would people gravitate to knowing nothing else?

What design would pull them in?

Not being brainwashed from the brand.

What car do they like?

Exactly.

What car would step out to somebody

that had never seen one?

They just, they stepped off the spaceship

and suddenly they're looking at these three cars.

I don't know that there's a definitive answer per se,

but I would certainly say from an overall design study

that I'm not a Ferrari guy.

I'm just, I'm not, but that 296 is actually

quite a beautiful, beautiful car.

Those cars are the deal.

Did you guys listen to the rest,

the most recent Chris Harris podcast?

Maybe it was the one before that?

I did.

That is similar conversation.

I did, yeah.

And Chris said he thinks that the best,

like most ridiculously undervalued car right now

is the 296.

It is.

830 or I don't even know how much horsepower a car has.

820 or 830 horsepower,

assuming the battery's charged by the way.

Yeah, so in any event, you guys wanna move on?

Are we good?

I did get, I texted my buddy Nick.

He said it is a steel-bodied car, but it is one of one

and it came equipped from the factory

with a four cam motor.

Is he restoring that for someone or is it his car?

He's restoring it for someone.

That car will be at Pebble in two years.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Look forward to seeing it.

Do you know what color it's gonna be?

Sorry, I'm just gonna stay on four.

I can ask him.

Yeah, I hope it's not red.

I'm sure it's not red.

Yep.

All right, cool.

You know what, it's funny too in old Ferraris,

if you do a color change, it affects the value,

but really not by that much.

Why don't you use a period color?

Unlike with Porsches, it's fascinating.

You guys ready for segment five?

Everybody good?

Yep, bring it.

Okay, good.

You guys wanna take any breaks for coffee refresh,

or anything like that?

We good?

All right, good.

These are marathon podcasts,

but our podcasters just love it.

My catheter's in, my coffee's full, ready to go.

Bro, I need one of those.

Actually, a catheter still?

You mean?

No.

Oh, God.

That'd be awful.

All right, segment five.

This week at Auctions, what are your top two,

what are you following, and why,

what is it that you find interesting

that's happening right now in the car market?

And I will go last.

Casey, are you good to go?

No, I see you're typing.

Dave, why don't you go first?

Well, this car was interesting,

and it's interesting for a reason that I've got one here

that we're gonna be rebuilding

for a well-known NASCAR driver.

And he bought the car, he bought the tub from me

two years ago now.

And it's basically just a tub.

58, so last year of the Speedster,

the car had some racing history to it,

it had been banged up.

I think I've got part of the rear suspension,

but basically it's a tub.

And we're gonna go through a process

to restore this car and put it back on the road.

Don't know about color,

but I'm just watching this car

because it is probably a 10-year-old restoration,

maybe even longer than that,

maybe close to 20-year-old restoration,

but it didn't meet reserve.

I mean, this car, I think the seller wants to do

round 300, 310, something like that,

but nicely redone car,

but just didn't make the numbers.

And then upon bringing a trailer previously

and ultimately be, I think it didn't meet number then.

And as a result, I think it even fell below that,

kind of to Paul's point.

What were the numbers?

This car, it topped at 285, was the where this car,

and I think seller's probably looking for three,

something 310, 315, something like that.

What year is that?

58, 57.

Oh, this one's at 57.

So it's a T, is it a T2?

I don't know, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

Okay, and then what did it not sell for previously

and how long was that?

No sale at 284.

But didn't you say it sold earlier, like how long ago?

No, no, he had marketed earlier

and he got it up just to a little under three,

like another 10 grand on it earlier this year,

back in April, I think.

Same reseller, marketed the car, different set of photos.

It only got to, again, 284.

But the comment suggested the car was close.

So I'm assuming this buyer's looking

for a little over 300, something like that.

I would tell you that a Speedster

is another one of those cars that evokes passion,

a really good looking Speedster.

I mean, and I think, I hate to point it back to movies

because that's gonna be next week's podcast,

but Top Gun, Speedster, come on now.

Kelly Magellis in her day, Magellis.

Come on now, man.

It's hard to beat that.

All right, sorry, keep going, Dave.

No, no, that's quite all right.

That was a great pick.

Well, this car as well, I mean,

I've said to many of folks that if I wasn't into Porsches,

I just love Aston Martins.

I just think they're just gorgeous cars.

I really love them.

Now, aside from whatever mechanical issues,

and availability of service, all those sorts of things,

this particular car to me,

which is a 17 launch edition DB11 coupe, obviously,

it is just a gorgeous, gorgeous car.

It's just got lines.

It doesn't have too much, not all the high cuts

and arrow stuff, it's just gorgeous.

This was a $250,000 car.

This one had 36,000, 37,000 miles on it,

and it sold for 85 grand.

And I'm thinking, my God, that's a gorgeous car

that's the bond car, right?

Am I getting it right?

I don't want to open up the link

because I don't want to store it.

Sorry, is it a Vanquish S?

What is that car?

That's the Casino Royale car.

DB11.

No, but I think what Casey's asking you is,

and I think it is Casey,

if that, so the Vanquish S was the car

that was in the James Bond, the Casino Royale car,

but I think that was the first bond, was it not?

And with him, yeah, I think so.

We met him at the airport, by the way.

Daniel Craig, Daniel Craig.

Yeah, Daniel Craig.

Didn't that break a world record

for the most amount of barrel rolls?

It broke some world record.

I think so, yeah.

Or the crash.

But you're right, 85 grand for that car is astonishing.

That's what drew me to this as my car to feature this week.

I just think it's a gorgeous, gorgeous car.

V12, 5.2 liters, just gorgeous.

You're going to get looks every place you go.

And even though this car is what,

eight years old at this point,

it's just, it's still a very, very, very pretty car.

You could totally rock that.

There you go, there's my, you could totally rock that.

You could, I know, you're at the point in life

where you can run, run, run with the Aston

and not your Porsche fan, your Porsche customers judging you.

They'll just be jealous.

Yeah, just get your cap, put your captain's hat on

and go motoring.

So what's funny, what's funny, Dave, is that you,

what year is that car? 17.

So the Casino Royale car would have been a lot older than

well. Yeah, so I think, yes.

But it's interesting how, I mean, that design, that shape.

And here's another one, DB4, another beautiful car

that evokes passion, DB4 beautiful car.

But that car is, they've done such a good job

with their design.

Even some of the new, I think DB12s

are really beautiful cars.

Yep.

I think they stay with that brand.

They stay with these design keys

that they stay throughout the history of the car with.

It's not a new, completely radical design.

That's one of my bitches with Ferrari.

Everything seems like it's, everything is bespoke.

Every model comes out, it's super bespoke.

And you can't, other than the color and the badge,

you can't really look at something always

and say, oh, that's Ferrari.

You can't always.

And it just seems like it's always coming out

with something completely new and different.

Meanwhile, this Aston Martin and certainly Porsche

kind of lay into that same, generally they modify,

they evolve, they don't just junk it

and start with something brand new.

Well, it's probably, if we're being honest,

it's probably because they don't want to piss off

their very few loyal customers

who don't want their designs to change.

Because if I understood, and I'm not trying to be

a smart ass, but it is true.

And the same reason that Rover doesn't change theirs.

And I believe that Aston is now owned,

not the race team.

I could be wrong, but I believe Aston,

the manufacturer is owned by a sovereign wealth fund

out of like Qatar or something.

I might be confusing my facts with McLaren

and someone will certainly redirect me if I am.

I have a question for you guys.

Do you guys ever go to this Bulldog autojapan.com website

and look for cars for sale in Japan?

I don't.

I mean, my biggest thing is looking at cars.

I look at auctions after they close.

I don't look at things that are currently selling

because once I start that, I know I have a habit.

And the first part of admitting is you have a habit

is admitting it.

And if I see something for sale,

which means I can buy it, then I start researching it

and it's a foregone conclusion.

I'll end up with something I shouldn't.

So no, I didn't look at it, but until today

and it's awesome.

Yeah, exactly.

So all these cars that are coming over Japan,

I was curious, well, how is that happening?

And what's happening is those guys right there,

they will go to the auctions for you

and they inspect the car to what degree I don't know.

And they bid on the car, they charge you a flat fee

and they help you ship the car to the West Coast

and then, you know, we're off to the races.

But if you're a listener viewer,

if you're interested in buying cars from Japan,

you're wondering why all these 964s and whatnot

are coming over from Japan.

It's because they're mostly getting shipped

from this BulldogAutoJapan.com website,

which, you know, I researched the guys too.

They seem like, you know,

I think they're American actually

that are doing that over in Japan,

which is kind of cool.

Next week, we should do a competition

where we find our favorite BulldogJapan car to import.

No, bad idea.

Oh, I love it.

No, because then I'll grab it whole.

I'll take it too seriously.

Sure.

You'll own one.

Yeah.

That's how I ended up with that TR2, basically.

Yeah, exactly.

So, Casey, why don't you go next?

What are you watching in the auctions?

So, I've got the two auctions

that I'm currently watching.

I've got a set of 997 sport bucket seats up

that I'm listing right now

in case anybody's interested.

Can I ask you questions about those?

Yep.

I saw, and by the way,

I thought your video and Insta was awesome.

Oh, thank you.

That would have been funny to have you trial

sitting on them like Paul was suggesting,

just because it was kind of funny.

Like, this is how you sit in the seat.

So, but I had some questions

based on what I learned from your video.

Number one, how are those different

than the ones you've already sold for 30 grand?

Number two, you said they're the best

modern Porsche seat, and I want to know why.

Because it's this thing that everybody was looking.

So, let me do two things.

How they are different.

The ones that the $30,000 seats were never sat in.

They are absolutely brand new.

Paul never farted in them.

Oh, the ass is ever tested, never.

Yeah, I was about to say no one has farted in them.

No, that was literally the first time

they were ever removed from the factory packaging

was what I put on that video.

And to my knowledge, I have never seen

anything like that hit the market.

The seats that I'm listing are interesting.

They came out of a Cayman GT4 that I sold new

to go into another Cayman GT4 that I also sold new,

which was pretty interesting.

And those seats are, they're used,

they're in very, very good shape.

They're Alcantara centers versus leather centers.

The seats are the same,

but one sets is basically essentially,

NOS, new original stock and the others were sat in.

But are they the same or aren't they Sam?

I honestly don't know.

I mean, it's a sport bucket seat.

It's the same seat that would have come in a 2008 GT2,

which is when those seats first came out.

That's what I was going to ask you.

So a GT4 16 is the same as a 997.2.

No, no, no, Cayman R.

Well, that's from a Cayman R.

Okay, so this 981, that's 987.2.

So that would have been the same seat as a 99,

so 997.2 seats buckets are what people

are just losing their mind over, correct?

They're in, so I sit in a whole lot

of really uncomfortable seats.

918 seats are not comfortable.

Nope.

997 buckets are considerably more comfortable

than 918 seats.

And then you can also fold them forward.

So you can put stuff behind them.

You can get behind, like yesterday,

I was delivering a car to a client and I had to,

it had sport buckets and I had to figure out

how to get in the back of the car to clean the rear window

because it was like a delivery mile car

that was just had grossness on the inside.

So, yes, foldable seats, which is now

where Porsche is going back to with the second gen 992 car

because everybody complained

that the back of the car was useless.

All right, I've got another question.

And if you guys don't know this, it's okay.

Because I heard that the seats in the 918

and the seats in the Speedster are different

than the sport seats that they put in the touring

and all the other sports seats.

So the 918 and the Speedster, the 991.2 Speedster

share the same seats, but the 918 seats,

even though people and using,

they say that my car's got 918 seats.

If they're not one of those two cars,

it's not the case.

Do you guys know if that's true?

Well, the 918s, you could get a wider seat,

but the seat itself wasn't wider.

The padding was different to my knowledge.

But the bucket wasn't actually wider.

I do not believe so.

I mean, I'll put it this way.

I was in a 918 yesterday

and I was in a Dakar yesterday

and the seats felt exactly the same

except for the 918 was a full leather seat

and the Dakar was a, it was one of the Rothmans one.

So it had the stitching and alcantara in the center.

But they felt the same.

But the case was just the upright positioning

or what was it about that seat that felt so different?

All those fixed bucket seats are pretty similar.

Well, the 918 seats, which is what we'll call them,

have an adjustment where you can move the front

of the seat up and down.

That makes it a lot more comfortable

for people to get, of course, in and out of.

The 997 seat, a lot of people,

there are companies that make spacers

to actually tilt them back

to make those seats more comfortable.

But to me, I would much rather get in and out of a 997

versus any 991 or later car with the 918 seats in them.

So I'm gonna put out a challenge

to all of our listeners and viewers

because I was told what I would just share with you guys

by somebody that I consider knowledgeable.

So whoever answers the question,

are 918 and Speedster seats different

than normal Porsche sports seats?

You guys, you're gonna get a free full throttle talk sticker.

Okay, how about that?

We'll give you a free sticker.

So help us out.

Just put it in an envelope to ship it there.

It will cost more than the sticker itself.

But like that, we'll give you more.

No, no, we'll give them two

so they can put it on both their windows, right?

Perfect, I love it.

We might even put in a few more.

So, but the more of the story is

if you guys know the answer to that question,

put it in comments on YouTube or Instagram or whatever.

So I think that's interesting.

I find this kind of nerdy stuff,

high nerd, interesting stuff.

Quickly back to my auctions.

Two I'm watching.

The one behind me is a one owner,

200,000 mile, 1992 911 Carrera Coupe.

That car is closing in five days.

It's currently at 45 grand.

I always talk about how great one owner cars are.

I recommend checking that one out.

And the other one that-

Casey, let me stop on that for just one second

because I think this guy's gonna get blown up

in this particular auction from what I've watched.

Blown up meaning?

Meaning he's, the photos aren't great.

He doesn't have specific answers

when he's being asked questions about the car.

It'll be just an interesting thing

to see how the car carries the day as a nine, six, four

versus the way this guy is presenting it,

which to me is always the key

to getting the maximum value out of a auction on B.A.T.

He is, he seems like he's not using someone else

as an intermediary to answer his questions.

He's not answering the questions appropriately.

He's blowing himself up on his own auction as my point

and the car itself is not presented particularly well.

The difference between this,

that's the service that I offer.

And I think, Dave, that might be what you're segwaying to

between you, Dave, Paul and I,

we do the diligence in advance.

Like I'm, this afternoon,

I'm going to do principal photography

on a 1976 Trans Am with a built 455 in it.

Before two months ago,

I knew nothing about 1976 Trans Ams

with 455 cubic inch engines.

But as a professional, it's my job to figure that out.

Being that I own a nine, 64,

I'm really excited that this guy has owned that car

for a long time.

Sure, if it's not had a top end,

it's probably going to need one soon.

Everybody buying that car should expect that.

The car did, according to him,

have a glass out respray.

The only other one of these cars

that I've seen transact recently,

which was a one owner car was, I think,

it was earlier in the year Nathan Mers listed it.

And it was a 160,000 mile one owner car.

I think it was a 90 or 91

that had rod around the windshield,

but he did it textbook.

Everything was documented.

He showed everybody what they needed.

He showed compression numbers.

He showed everything and said that the car was healthy

and it was a great driver.

And that's effectively the same kind of car that I own.

So this car, this 92 is currently at,

it's currently at what, 45 grand.

I'm watching it because I love stuff like this.

The other car that I am wanting,

actually I flipped up the wrong picture here.

But Casey, don't you think the unfortunate truth

about that car is just being bought by somebody

that's going to send it to Singer

to make it into something else?

Because there are a lot of cars that start,

if you run VIN numbers on modern singers

that use the original VIN,

a lot of them were basically bought just like that car.

Tim, I don't want to think about it.

Next car.

I agree.

Denial.

In the late, late odds, early tens of the 2000s,

I worked for, I did marketing for a company

called TPC Racing based out of Jessup, Maryland.

And we supplied suspension parts

to Cayman inter-series cars.

It was basically a series of racing put together

by Napled and Porsche that they did.

It was kind of like an IROC car,

but they were 2011 Caymans with,

they put air jacks in them and JRZ suspension

and suspension components

from a couple of different companies, TPC being one of them.

One of them is being auctioned off.

I don't see these come to market very often.

They're all done in cool liveries.

The one that's being listed as a canning car,

I'm going to change the one that I always looked at,

which is a low-embrow car,

which here you see strapped to the dyno.

When I worked at TPC, you can see the GT2 above it.

That was probably, I don't know,

Mike probably paid 120 grand for that car.

That was like a nothing thing.

Casey, are you realizing that Paul's example this week

is essentially the sister of that car

is all the way down to the number and everything?

That is hilarious.

No, I didn't.

Well, the low-embrow number 14

was the Holbrook car that won Daytona.

So it's great livery,

but I only brought that car up

because that was the one that I was familiar with.

And I tried not to peek at what other people's things

were this week.

But no, this isn't what I,

this was just a car.

This is from 2007.

It was a car we built.

And I love that livery.

So as soon as I saw that,

I'm like, I got to throw that picture of a car up.

One of my clients owned that,

owned the number 14 car.

The 962, it was a 962.

Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, yeah, go ahead.

Since you were a meanie earlier,

you're going to go last.

So can somebody else help me out with the slides?

I put the links there,

whoever you guys, whoever's quick.

And if listeners and viewers,

you're wondering why I don't put slides up

is because I have to, you know,

manage all these other things

that are on my computer screen.

And frankly, I don't have the intellectual horsepower

anymore to manage more than three or four things at once

and barely at that.

So my two, the two question,

the two cars I was paying attention to,

because again, I just think this is very fascinating

what's happening in the market

because there's definitely some sort of weird shift

that's happening is a 911 GT2.

And I'd love to hear what you guys think about that car

because in my humble opinion, that car, okay.

Remember we were asking, you know,

Casey said passion, you know, oh my God, I love it.

When I was at Modena, Miami, whatever it was

for the RM auction and whatnot earlier this year,

there was a 911 just GT, which is 993 GT

that was sitting there that was white.

And that was the, that was the last

or that was the one of the few times in the last five years

even I had an immediate emotional reaction to a car

because it was so gorgeous.

So I'm watching that car

because I've sort of got that on my bucket list idea now.

And also I'm very fascinated that those cars,

thank you Paul.

And actually I think it was that car that I saw.

Yeah, that's a zwet car.

So that makes sense if it was in Miami.

I'm pretty sure it was.

And the guys were super nice.

And I'm comparing it in my mind to like a 1918

because those cars are basically the same price.

But then for interest sake,

and we don't have to yammer about this,

but I was going on to classics.com.

Thank you guys for tipping me off to how good that site is.

And I was looking at the market on these things

and the values on these things,

964s have been flat for a long period of time.

All the while, all these restaurants

have been going up in value

or at least they've been coming to market

and attracting the same consumer

that would have been buying one of those.

The one exception is the 918 has had a nice run

but the 964 RS, the 993 GT, again,

which I think is gorgeous,

those are the cars I'm watching.

And I'm wondering if the market's gonna come back on those,

if the market's gonna fall.

I don't know.

It's just sort of an intellectual exercise

that sort of fills my day.

So there you go.

Those are the two cars I was watching.

You guys have any thoughts on that?

Any opinions?

No, I mean, I actually, in the next segment,

if we get to it, 918 was definitely on there.

And I think it is a special car,

but I was busy with the pictures.

The one you talked about, this was the 964-

993.

Oh, the 996, 993 GT2.

Yep.

What did they want?

Like 2 million?

Less.

No, I don't know how much they're asking for that one.

Probably 2 million.

But again, I went on classics.com.

I looked for comps and I'm looking right now.

There was a sale that was recent like a few days ago.

You know what that might be?

1.2, I see it.

The silver one.

Yep.

Yeah.

So the silver one was 1.2.

Was it a club sport that went for 1.2 or a street car?

No, because there's a big, the street cars

go for a lot more money than the race cars.

It's in the notes, guys.

Yeah.

The standard GT2, in case you're right,

the standard GT2 was that recently sold,

we don't know what the condition of the cars was.

1.4, where the club sport was,

the recent sale was around 2 million.

And then if you compare that to a 918, there you go, 30 comps.

I put the information right there.

I don't know.

I mean, what would you guys rather have

if you have to choose between a 918 and a 919?

If you could only have one, what would you choose?

Oh, the, oh.

You're trying to get me to say 9,

you're trying to get me to say 993.

It's a close one for me.

I mean, the problem with 918s and a problem that

is the bottom of the car is carbon fiber.

The car is such a liability that it's honestly,

there are certain cars in this world that scare me.

I was a quick segue.

I'm going to go to the Porsche Cult of America

open house this weekend.

And I was planning on bringing a 918

because, you know, why not?

I have the opportunity to.

It's fine.

But that 50 mile drive to and from where

the car is stored is if something happens, you know,

it's it's not a good thing.

So I'm taking an ST instead.

So if anybody shows up at the Porsche Club of America

open house this weekend and you see a tall guy with glasses,

probably wearing a Group C curation shirt next to a 911

ST that will be me.

Please say hello.

Dave has not sent me stickers yet.

So I cannot give you any.

Dave, the mail still works cases are good.

I'd probably go with I'd probably go with the 993

because it's a lot more it's a lot more of the era.

I mean, I've I told the story before,

but I did 175 in the rain and a 918 it wrote Atlanta

on the back straight.

And it was absolutely terrifying.

And it was like something that I will never forget.

But a 993 GT2 as odd as this sound sounds to me

is a significantly more livable automobile

that you could actually use without being terrified

of something happening to it.

We didn't talk about this, but all this carbon fiber

bodied stuff, how many body shops are out there

and know how to fix carbon fiber?

I mean, the reason that houses are still made out of wood

is because there's not very many people that know how

to make them out of 3D printed or steel.

So I'm just curious about where the world's going to go

as more cars start to go, you know,

they're going to get junked faster

is the moral of the story.

They're going to get essentially bend quicker.

Yeah, so I mean, I would and I agree with Casey

I choose the 993.

Oh, I know, I know trust me, it hurts for that.

For the livability of it, but like,

I think going back to the question, you know,

today's generation, what is going to have bigger

future value than 918 that will have bigger future value.

This will, like you're already seeing,

will kind of flatten out because the people

that are interested in this are people born

in seventies and eighties

and the people born in the nineties are going to want that.

And I'll give you, let me give you my spin on that.

Go back to the other picture, Paul, if you don't mind.

And I can take a wide body 993

and I can get that look by adding some body panels.

And it's like the difference between, you know,

I can put that tail on it,

I can make that car look that way.

Now Paul switch over to the 918.

Oh, you mean you're going to build that?

Okay.

No, I thought you said you didn't like RWB cars earlier.

I don't, you're missing the point I'm trying to make is

the 918 is a car that's unique.

It's, you can't, you're not going to make one of those, right?

You're not going to wide body it.

You're not going to, that's why I think that's the choice

as far as which car do you pick.

The other car is a 993.

It's a, you know, that's what it is.

It's wide, the 993 with a great motor, great suspension,

all the wheels.

Yeah.

Especially with those, you know, Italian wheels,

I might point out Paul from speed line.

Casey?

Yeah.

Casey, do you guys disagree?

I mean,

Well, I, I'll put, so I'll, so my buddy Yuri and I

worked together most days.

And yesterday I pulled the 918 out.

I did a short loop.

Honestly, I did half of it in electric

because it's kind of wild that the car is an electric motor

that moves it around.

And I brought it back in and my buddy Yuri just stood there

and stared at it.

And he's like, it looks like a spaceship.

It's, it's, trust me, it is insane.

It is amazing.

And if I was never going to drive either of them,

the 918 would be the car that I would own

because it is art, it is stunning.

But let me go back.

Let me go back.

It's terrifying, Dave.

It's terrifying for a guy like me.

Because I'm sorry for jumping over you, Dave,

but you did have a really good point.

And I actually agree with you.

If you want, you can replicate pretty closely

that 993 GT experience.

You can't replicate the 918 experience.

And I think for that reason, you're probably,

I do agree you're right.

Certainly about what direction the market's going to go

and your logic behind it.

I honestly, I agree with the only answer is earn more

money and buy, buy both truthfully.

And you know what, you guys are all right.

I changed my mind.

I should have gone with my first thought, which was 918.

The carbon fiber point, Casey scared me.

And you know what, if you can afford that,

you're not really worried about that.

That'll get fixed.

You'll send it back to Porsche.

You'll send it wherever.

But I forgot the thing.

We're talking about the things that are beautiful

that strike you and you're just like,

have an emotional tag.

And I remember when the 918 came out,

everyone was like, mm, hybrid.

It was the first kind of like,

I mean, we were still struggling with it

being an F1 and some of the racing series.

And we're like, this is just cheesy.

And there was a video with Chris Harris

in some Middle East racetrack, the middle of nowhere.

And he's doing his electric thing.

He turns on the gas motor

and the exhaust out the top of the engine throw flames.

And I just go, you know, I'm out myself.

I'm done.

I want that car.

I remember distinctly telling my wife like, look at this.

I rewound it and watched it just this.

It is on a video.

And so I can't believe I forgot that moment

that it wasn't, the body was so beautiful.

It was this sort of like visceral engine throwing flames

at the top of the engine, which you never see

and the sound, which, you know,

think about Porsche sounds that are really unique,

Carrera GT and then that one.

And the sad thing is,

I don't know if the next halo car

will have that sound.

It almost didn't before they decided to pull

the literal plug on their electric abomination

and we'll see what they come out with.

Sorry.

That's, yeah.

Well, you know what?

That's actually a good tune.

There's somebody that didn't present their cars.

They're watching me.

Oh, well, you know what?

We've heard enough from you today.

So let's bounce into two hours here now, guys.

I know.

But listen, guys, I have friends that have podcasts

that go for three, four hours and you can look

and your people will stop and start,

stop and start listening to it throughout the day.

I listened to Joe Rogan podcast over like two and three days.

So go ahead, Paul, let's go.

Oh, just really quick.

This was a 77, 9-11 back date.

And what was really interesting about it was,

it was all for all intents of purpose,

a pretty cool looking car.

The interior was done nice, not overdone, not overdone,

not Sonderworks done, but at least not Garrish.

It had the cool aluminum group wheels.

It was just a very tasteful car.

This owner, it just closed Ombringa trailer a couple days ago,

sold for 93,500, a fairly recent build.

This car, this owner bought it less than 1,000 miles ago

in December and it sold for $129,000.

This is without fees.

So that's like 135-ish.

And now it just sold for like 96.

So the guy lost $35,000 and there's two big reasons.

Well, one big reason, one small reason, three reasons actually.

The small reason is, back date 77,

you take out the California market.

There's no way this is passing emissions and all that.

But here is the biggest reason.

I was telling Dave, this is like someone made

a Harlequin version of the motor.

There is green shroud, red fan, shitty blue coil.

When I see this blue coil,

it immediately goes, this guy didn't care.

And the whole thing about the engine.

So after all this build,

tell me why it got a 2.7 mid-year engine,

nothing rebuilt with Zenith carbs.

Like the reason why is they had it laying around.

And what that conveyed was,

where else was the corners cut on this build?

And so I think what happened,

it was done in Oslo blue,

and I think what happened in December.

And the guy said, oh, he's got too many cars

and he's got something else.

My wife, you know, throw the wife under the bus.

My wife said, get rid of something.

All of the bullshit reasons.

But the reason someone sells something so soon,

and you see it, it's epidemic on bring a trailer.

And it kills the value of a car.

I would say cars that get resold

on bring a trailer for the average,

you can just take, you know, within like a year,

you can take 15% off the value.

Just because the buyer on the other end is going,

what's wrong?

What is really wrong?

He's telling me this answer, what's really wrong?

I think what the answer is,

this guy got swayed by the beautiful photography

of the first ad, really nicely shot.

By the way, 1600 Veloce,

big, big reseller in the East Coast, you know him.

He sold it the first time.

This guy looked like he just did his own listing.

So you had a great seller, great photography,

struck a motion, loved the color, bought it, it showed up.

He take it to his mechanic to just, you know,

once over in his mechanic, basically shamed him

and said, what the hell did you buy?

Going back to Casey's point.

I think it's a replacement motor too, isn't it?

It's a replacement motor.

It's not even the original motor.

And it's like, I look at that car

and if you would have just put a three, two in it

with a nice looking manifold

and just not this bullshit colors.

So anyway, that car was more interesting to me

to show the effect of cars that get resold

and bring a trailer and the big question

is why they get resold and what that does to value

and also how people don't spend the money

to actually finish off a car right.

I think if the guy would have spent a thousand bucks

and put H1 headlights on it,

it would have been worth significantly more money

because those headlights ruined that car for me.

Yeah, H4 headlights.

I mean, each one's now our 2000.

Those look like just projector headlights, right?

Yeah, they're gross.

By the way, here's the irony.

Messes up the whole vibe.

The ad in December had regular H4s.

This is one of the few things this guy did to the car.

He told you, man.

He told you.

He spent the money not on the car.

So that car was interesting, like I said,

for what does relisting do, why do people do it

and how people low hang fruit and just don't even,

could have cleaned the engine up,

done something different.

The other car is really one of my guilty pleasures.

It's a Jaguar XJ220.

It was a car that was doomed from the beginning,

from a marketing standpoint,

from a bait and switch to customers.

It was supposed to have a 12 cylinder,

got a six cylinder.

It was supposed to go 220 miles an hour,

which is why it was the XJ220,

but it only went 217 and it just,

this car was doomed from the beginning,

also going back to Dave's Aston Martin.

British cars, super cars, high level GT cars

just never do well on the used market.

So this car just sold a couple of days ago

for $501,000.

It was owned, and I don't know

if you could see it in the background, right there.

It was owned by Philip Serafim,

owner of Myers-Manx, friend of mine.

This was when it was on the Jay Leno show.

He gave me the opportunity to drive it.

I freaked out, I did not, I wish I would have,

but I did sit in it.

It is a fantastic car, future value.

This car undersold.

It should have sold for at least a hundred grand more.

A lot of work.

When Philip got it, he sorted it out.

Here is a reason why I think it undersold.

It did a Gold Rush rally, and they did this shit to it.

Nothing got damaged.

They just wrapped it, and this is a part of an ad

that I might have just left out.

I don't think people needed to do the Gold Rush,

but it was on Jay Leno's garage when Philip had it.

They talked about it.

The problem with this is a super car.

It's just, oh my God, this looks like a LaBaron interior.

It's so bad, but, Casey, it does have one bitchin' thing.

On the driver door panel, this opens with the door

that has those gauges.

Those are cool.

Beautiful.

Who's the buyer for that car in five years, low, alone 10?

Jaguar.

Just me, just me.

There's no buyers.

I am, I always tell people, if you look at what I buy,

that tells you you shouldn't buy that

because no one will care,

but it will be an awesome experience.

If you like to drive and want an awesome experience,

because the thing about this car,

and the people I know who own it,

despite probably difficult to maintain,

but name a 90s super car that isn't,

it is a fantastic car.

And don't forget, this was F40, F50 era.

This was 959 era.

All of those cars are seven-figure cars,

and these are selling for half a million,

and they will never, it's not like,

ooh, this is a goodbye, go grab your XJ220 today.

This car will never have huge value.

For Tim's point, no one really cares.

British super cars just don't do that well,

but I mean, come on, look how beautiful it is.

And by the way, like that thing I sent you,

I mean, the really cool pop-up or headlights,

they're actually like these little covers

that slide back like an old Mercury Cougar or something.

So those are my two picks.

Dave, if Paul can yammer for 20 minutes straight

about a Jaguar that nobody will want in like 24 months,

you can certainly buy that Aston Martin.

So let's get to listener questions.

All right, so I think we had three or four.

Some of them we responded to.

I saw you guys were helping out in the Instagram.

That was great.

So I'm gonna try to read this.

Okay, here goes.

You have a G-body 911.

Do you spend money on lightning the car,

sunroof delete?

This is a good question for Dave, actually.

Lighter seats, bumpers, carpet, sound deadening,

maybe even shoot it with an interesting color,

et cetera, et cetera.

Will you build the engine,

high compression or 3.2 short stroke

or balance and blueprint, et cetera, et cetera?

Well, both options are quite expensive.

Which one, I assume he's meaning,

if you had to choose one, which one did you go with?

And JP, thank you for asking the question.

Dave, you wanna go first?

Well, I think the way that question phrased,

there's a lot of qualifiers that need to go along

with that to determine what the real answer is gonna be.

What do you wanna really use the car for?

Is it nearly as a flip?

You're asking the question or what do you wanna use it for?

Horse power on Porsches is expensive to get.

If you wanna try to take your base car

and turn that car into something

that's substantially more powerful motor-wise,

you are gonna spend a ton of money on that car.

Lightning is way cheaper, obviously.

You can take stuff out

and improve your power to weight ratio on the car.

But it's a function of what you're trying to do.

Because it's very expensive to,

you're spending $50,000 to build a motor

that's got a more serious grunt to it.

And we build those all the time

and I'm certainly happy to do it.

But what's the use?

I need one more question to answer

before I can really answer that.

If you were just flipping the car, then,

lighten it, don't build the motor.

Go ahead, Paul.

I mean, I would just say,

let's just assume the guy bought a nice driver

and wants to drive it and have an experience.

We'll just assume that.

My philosophy is most people who want more power

or they're gonna do lightweight or all these things,

they're probably not a good enough driver

just to drive it fast the way it is.

And they should probably go to the track,

go to a driving school,

but let's just say they're really a competent driver.

In my opinion,

and let's first make sure the car is sorted.

Like, I see these people do engines

or they build these lightweight panels

and meanwhile they got shit brakes on the car,

the suspension bushings are shot,

the transmission grinds,

but let's just assume it's a good car.

The first place I would spend money is tires.

The number of cars that have shitty tires on the car

put good tires.

If it's a G-body, the Michelin Pilot Sport

all season fours are the best tires.

And that's because the summer tire Michelins,

they don't have the modern compound still.

One day they will have that,

but I've tried all of them, those are good.

And then I would do-

That's what I have on my 964, Paul.

They're great tires.

I have it on my 928, my green 911,

and any other 16-inch wheel car I could put it on.

The other thing is a really good suspension.

And most of the big problem with the suspension

is not the parts, but who puts it in?

Someone who actually knows how to tune suspension.

You can buy a really nice Bilstein kit,

pretty off the shelf from Tyraq, that's budget.

You can go to Olin's and KW.

You don't need to do triple adjustable motons.

You don't need to do remote reservoir shit.

Just a good, in fact, I almost like the strut insert

setup and put all new bushings.

Anything that suspension put new factory rubber bushings,

you'll be shocked at how good the car is.

So that's my answer to that question.

I agree with Paul.

It depends on how beat the rest of the car is,

but making sure the engine is performing

as it was when it's stock.

Maybe if you need to want to wake it up

and make it feel a little bit more livable,

maybe do a little bit of a lighter weight flywheel

and a fresh clutch in the car,

make sure it's not leaking any oil,

and then suspension and tires is where I go.

Yeah.

And if you're asking about lightweight engine,

neither one of those appeal to me.

I mean, how lightweight can you make it

to make a difference from a driving standpoint on the road

versus a compromise standpoint?

Just a fresh motor in general

on a lot of these cars is sometimes all you need.

You put a fresh motor in one that's tired

that you've bought,

and it'll wake that car up a lot, right?

Especially if you're replacing pistons

and stuff like that with Euro pistons.

I mean, I'm not sure if we answered

that question appropriately

because I'm not sure what his the objective was.

Which one should he do is kind of the way.

Yeah, and I think we both, we all said, neither.

Yeah, it just depends on the use case.

So you're trying to do it to drive the car better,

have more fun driving it,

or are you trying to maintain value?

What are the real reasons?

But if it's to drive it,

I'd do a lot of other things

before I'd throw money at a big motor build.

Because I think there's limits to how fast

you can drive those cars anyway,

based on no matter what you do.

And I just think that you could spend a lot more money

to get a lot more fun out of that car

without putting a big motor in it.

Yep, agreed.

Yep, 100%.

Because every time you change something,

you compromise the overall design even more.

So if you make it lighter, then it's gonna be louder,

and then you're ever gonna move one of the in it

because it's like you're rolling around

in a trash can't so loud.

There's all those types of things.

But what I would do personally,

if I were thinking about,

I've done plenty of projects,

if you don't want a money hole,

go make this car as nice as you can,

consign it with one of these guys,

and then use that money and put it towards something

that's gonna maybe somebody already,

like the blue car Paul was just talking about,

find something that someone's already invested

a ton of money in.

I'll tell you the car I can't stop thinking about

is the car that Paul's in disagreement with the owner

about it's essentially a high end tribute

to a 2.73 911 RS.

For around 200 grand, 180 grand, whatever it is,

you can't replicate that.

And there's other cars out there that are like that

because for those longhood cars, the G-Bodies on back,

the buyer pool for those is shrinking,

it just is, you can look at the sales.

And so find something that someone's already

essentially done all the right things to

and put all the right money into.

There you go, by Paul's orange car.

Honestly, that's what I would do.

Yeah, I love that car.

And nothing steers better than an earlier 911.

Well, there's a lot of questions we didn't get to.

We'll prioritize those on the next full throttle talk.

We'll get to those questions first.

I have to go take a bathroom break.

I'm sure you guys do as well.

Yes, I know Paul, cause you've been cheating.

Don't you think we haven't been noticing?

We've been, what's happening about you noticing

when you lean this way or that way?

But in your defense, are you in a wheelchair right now

or are you in a, what are you sitting in?

No, no, I'm sitting in my desk chair

but I've got my Ferrari.

Yeah, oh God, all right, fine.

Here, look at that.

There it is.

How many miles around that ball?

Oh my gosh, you weren't kidding.

I thought he was kidding too.

It's gonna decrease the value

if you get too many laps around the kitchen with that thing.

I wasn't kidding.

This thing is, I got my grabber.

It's got the Dave upholstery on the seat.

Let's look at that.

That's pretty trick.

It's got the Tim Fender shields.

Look at that.

It's got all Cantera seats.

Deviated stitching, lovely, look at that.

Woo, look at that.

Okay, all right, we're gonna, it's classy.

That's officially ending on a high note.

So listen, listeners, thank you for helping us accomplish

our, well, we actually didn't have much of a stated goal

when we started this thing

but it turns out that you guys

like listening to us Yammer

and the feedback and the level of appreciation

and gratitude we're getting from doing this podcast

is frankly, for me, it's overwhelming.

Paul and I started this as a bit of a hobby,

not even a year ago.

And it's really grown into something that

I wouldn't even have dreamt of

at going in the direction that it is.

Paul, I think you'll probably agree.

I mean, I wouldn't have guessed this.

So listen, if you're on YouTube,

please like and subscribe.

If you're on Instagram, please give us a follow.

Help us get the word out.

Encourage us to continue setting aside

this much of our lives

for the sake of spending a couple of hours a week

with all of you.

Thank you for keeping full throttle talk,

one of the most listened to daily podcasts

for car nerds all over the world.

We're picking up listeners all over the world.

It's just absolutely mind-blowing and amazing.

And guys, thank you for spending the time

with me today.

I sincerely appreciate it.

God bless everyone.

Have a fantastic week.

Resto-Mod Bubble, Overhyped Supercars & Ferrari’s New 849 Testarossa

About this episode

Original notes