Ron Ananian The Car Doctor Dec 27, 2025

Ron Ananian, The Car Doctor - December 27, 2025 - Hour 1 - EV's Past and Present

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Car

Delorean DMC-12

The DeLorean DMC-12 is a unique car famous for its role in the 'Back to the Future' movies. It has cool doors that open upwards and is made of shiny metal, making it look very different from most cars.

Car

DeLorean

The DeLorean is a unique car that has a shiny metal body and doors that open upwards. It's famous for being featured in movies where it travels through time.

Car

Bricklin SV-1

The Bricklin SV-1 is a unique car from the 1970s that was designed to be very safe. It has a special look and was one of the first cars to have features that protect drivers better in case of an accident.

Company

Tesla

Tesla is a car company that makes electric cars. They are known for their high-tech features and have become very popular, especially for expensive cars.

Brand

BMW

BMW is a well-known car brand from Germany that makes luxury and sporty cars. They are now producing electric cars too.

Brand

Jaguar

Jaguar is a car brand from the UK that makes luxury cars. They are now also making electric cars to keep up with trends.

Term

electric vehicles (EVs)

Electric vehicles, or EVs, are cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline. They are becoming more common because they are better for the environment.

Term

cells

Cells are the small parts inside a battery that hold energy. More cells usually mean more power and longer driving range for electric cars.

Term

mining

Mining is when people dig into the ground to find valuable materials like metals and minerals. For electric car batteries, special materials are needed, and mining is how we get them.

Term

lithium-ion battery

A lithium-ion battery is a special kind of battery that can be charged and used again. It's important for electric cars because it holds a lot of energy and helps the car go far without needing to be recharged too often.

Term

internal combustion engine

An internal combustion engine is what most cars use to run. It burns fuel inside the engine to create power that makes the car move.

Term

electric motor

An electric motor is what makes electric cars move by using electricity instead of gasoline. It's different from regular car engines that burn fuel to create power.

Term

copper bus bar

A copper bus bar is a piece of copper that helps carry electricity in electric cars. It connects different parts so that power can flow smoothly.

Term

electric cars

Electric cars use electricity to run instead of gasoline. They have batteries that store energy, which helps reduce pollution and can be cheaper to operate than regular cars.

Term

manufacturing machinery

Manufacturing machinery includes the machines used to make products. In this case, it's the equipment that helps build batteries for electric cars.

Term

cooling system

A cooling system keeps things from getting too hot. In electric cars, it helps keep the battery and motor at a safe temperature so they work well.

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Ron and Anian.

My wife forgot to charge her car overnight

meaning she didn't plug it in.

So I just plugged it in at 48%

and it needs three hours and 15 minutes

to fully charge.

We won't be able to use it

for all our driving today as planned.

There's a candid, honest response

from an electric vehicle owner.

You can't see it.

It's electric.

You gotta see it.

It's electric.

Ooh, it's shaking.

It's electric.

The car doctor.

The operator of New England's power grid

said it could be forced to shut off power

if there was a long period

of very cold temperatures this winter.

If New England has a prolonged cold snap,

the operator of the grid warned

they may have to shut off the power

to homes and businesses.

Welcome to the radio home of Ron and Anian.

The car doctor.

Since 1991, this is where car owners

the world overturned to

for their definitive opinion on automotive repair.

If your mechanic's giving you a busy signal

pick up the phone and call in.

The garage doors are open.

But I am here to take your calls

at 855-560-9900.

And now, here's Ronnie.

You know, we've got a great hour of radio for you here.

It's a, I've had so much fun already

talking to our guest pre-show just listening

and I know where this conversation is gonna go

but you guys are gonna love this.

And actually I have to thank all of you

the listenership because you sent in

more than a few emails showing me his recent interview.

Well, maybe it's not so recent

but some of his other interviews,

Mark Mills from the Manhattan Institute

with John Stossel among other people

and talking about electricity and electric cars.

And we reached out to Mark.

He got right back to us and we're so thrilled

to have him here.

His reputation precedes him.

Mr. Mills, are you there, sir?

I'm here.

Thanks for having me on.

I'm delighted.

You're very welcome.

We're so glad to have you.

I just wanna, I'm gonna start at the beginning, Mark,

because you and I have already had half the interview.

We're done.

We'll just go home and have a drink.

Yeah, we're done.

You know, full disclosure.

So, you know, tell us about yourself.

You know, why did I pick you?

Why are you the guy that everybody seems to be

talking to when we're talking about electricity

and energy because this is a car repair show

but you know, this electric car thing

is just the tip of the iceberg of what they wanna do

and how they wanna change the way energy

is in this country.

Well, I could first say it's not my fault.

Well, that's good to know.

But I'm hoping you're the guy that fixes it.

I know.

Well, you know, it's funny, I studied my degree in physics.

I quit graduate school because, well,

I liked to work and I was building semiconductors.

My first job was in a manufacturing plant

for semiconductors.

But I, from very early in my life,

I liked how things worked.

They liked how building things, you know,

worked on engines, I worked on motorcycles.

I raced one summer in Grand Prix in Canada

and I, you know, I'm Canadian.

I like engines, I like electric motors,

I like semiconductors, I like how stuff works

and that's why, in part, I studied physics

and then I ended up getting a job as an engineer

and semiconductors and missile guidance

and stuff like that.

And I got sort of dragged in the back door

to the energy domain simply because nothing's possible

but energy, so it doesn't matter

whether you're trying to figure out how to make cars go fast

or be more efficient, depends what your proclivities are.

Or rockets fly or make semiconductors more powerful,

computers faster, everything, everything redounds

ultimately like they're figuring out both the materials

and the energetics of things.

So yeah, that was sort of the intellectual part

but the practical part was very real for me

in jobs I had in my hobbies.

And then, you know, we got the energy debate started.

As you know, we had oil embargoes

and that couple of them that caused the people forgotten.

The people of a certain age will remember.

Oil prices went up 400% overnight in 73, 74.

Then they went up more than 200% again in 79.

These are shocking events.

They really changed how the Western world

thought about energy

and people thought we were running out of energy

so I ended up getting involved in energy issues

probably because of the silliness of the idea

that we were running out of energy, running out of oil.

And then now we have another silly idea

that we should never use oil gas again.

Well, let me stop you right there, Mark.

Are we running out of oil?

No.

That's the story, I mean, the nuance is

can you exhaust an oil field

that uses technology you have available today

to deliver oil at a price you're willing to pay?

Yes, that's a form of running out of oil.

The geophysical question is a different one.

Is there enough oil that we are aware of

as a resource to fuel society for centuries?

Yeah, easily.

Centuries is essentially forever.

The availability of oil or natural gas

or frankly any mineral, any resource in the earth

is dictated not by the physical quantity

but the kind of technology we have to find it

and extract it at a price.

And utilize it.

Yeah, and that, so that's a technology question.

That's the key question is what,

what kind of technologies are there,

how do they change, and what are their limits?

So, you know, we're not running out of oil

but you can run out of the capacity to produce it

at the volumes and prices the markets will need

and will pay.

And governments can cause that to happen

not just engineers, governments ban things.

They say you can't drill here.

Governments can pass regulations

that are punitive, make oil or gas

or any mineral too expensive.

So the, when I start out by saying no,

I mean I'm answering the geophysical question

but obviously governments can do really dumb things

and they have and they will continue to do that.

And I guess that's what makes them politicians

and governments to a degree.

Well, the good news is that, you know,

not to go political, I rather have democracies

that do dumb things than dictatorships.

Well, there's always that, yes, I agree 100%.

But listen, I gotta tell you,

we're gonna get political comments

after this conversation.

I know I'm gonna get,

because I already get hate email that I'm trying to ban.

Do you know that I single-handedly

am trying to eliminate the electric car industry

if you believe some of the listeners?

And I just keep trying to point out,

you know, as I said in our pre-interview interview,

you know, one of my favorite lines

from one of my favorite movies, Hidden Figures.

Math Doesn't Lie, two and two has to be four.

Where are we gonna get the electricity from?

Well, Dr. Carwood is actually a terrific example of two,

sort of two domains that fascinate me.

One is sort of a lot called misdirection

of interest in the future.

I've got a new book out as you probably know,

one writes a new book.

You know, one is not only obligated,

but eager to promote it.

And I write about cars and transportation in the book.

It's called The Cloud Revolution.

As you can guess from the title,

it's not about cars,

it's about computing and technology for the future.

Cars are interesting, new kinds of fuel for cars,

using batteries instead of gasoline.

It's important, that's a very interesting option.

And there'll be lots more of it.

But the idea that that's revolutionary

in the same sense the invention of the car was revolutionary

is profoundly misguided.

It'd be equivalent in the 19th century

of coming up with a new way to feed horses

and imagining that you had a revolution.

Well, you know, to be winners and losers,

if you change what you feed the horses,

it's still a horse.

A car with a battery is still a car,

it's different food, that is meaningful.

The real question you'd wanna know

is can we make enough of that food?

And by that I mean, you know, you're referring to the electricity.

Electricity is the least of it, that's not the problem.

Obviously you have to charge an electric car with electricity.

Equally obviously, the electricity you use

is determined by when you charge the car

and where you charge it.

I mean, by that is most people probably know

if you happen to live in a part of the world

or a country where there's lots of wind and solar,

and it happens to be sunny or a lot of windy,

at that very moment if you charge your car,

you're probably using a lot of electrons made

with wind and solar.

And if you happen to charge a car when it's cloudy

or be calmed, which happened for roughly two weeks

in Northern Europe this last month, as you know,

then you're charging your car with natural gas and coal,

dominantly, which is what happened in Germany

and England where they fired up coal plants

that they fortunately still had around.

So that's a factor.

The bigger factor that is profoundly absent

from this whole trope that we're going to eliminate

the use of internal combustion engines

by virtue of electric cars being better.

We could talk about whether they're better or not.

That's a different subject.

Right.

And whether they become cheaper, another subject.

But the idea that electric cars will eliminate

the need to have oil and internal combustion engines

is just arithmetically silly.

It's not happening and won't happen for two reasons.

One, the scaling up that people imagine

that is we're going from a world today,

so a 10 million electric cars in the world today,

which is a lot considering there were a decade ago,

not even a million, so it's a big deal.

But it's in a world that has over a billion cars

on the roads, so again, if you do your math,

you're now approaching 1% of all vehicles.

The optimists believe that there'll be hundreds of millions

of electric cars within the decade,

say three or 400 million, 500 million.

That'd be an astonishing increase

in the physical infrastructure.

That would, at that point in time,

eliminate roughly 10% of world's oil use.

So let me say that again.

If we get the optimist vision happening in the next decade

and we get 400 million or so electric vehicles on the roads,

the reduction of world oil demand would be about 10%.

That's it.

So, I'll tell you what, let me-

How does that existential threat to anything

if you're in the oil business?

What do you care?

In fact, I would say the opposite, if I'm a consumer,

let's hope there's that many electric cars

because the competition will help keep the price

of gasoline down for everybody else.

It doesn't want to pay high price for gas.

You want competition.

Yeah, absolutely.

Hey, Mark, let me pull over and take a pause,

but let me just say this.

You just convinced me, you must be a physicist then.

You really do have a degree.

I used to be one.

I don't practice anymore.

I just talk like one on TV and radio.

You sound pretty good to me.

You got me convinced.

When I come back, maybe we'll talk about time travel

in a DeLorean.

Ron and Amy and the car doctor here

with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute

will both return right after this.

Don't go away.

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Are you with me?

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For the best in car advice, give Ron a call.

855-560-9900.

Now, back to Ron.

Hey, thanks for staying with us.

We're here today with Mark Mills.

He is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

He's a faculty fellow at Northwestern University's

McCormick School of Engineering.

And he's just a whole lot of fun to talk to.

I think he's like my new best buddy.

We could talk probably, we need at least,

I think I need like an eight hour show here, Mark.

So let me recap the first segment, all right?

Just so I can, for those that are just joining us.

We've, you know, you've made your case.

Obviously you're a physicist.

You've got some really great knowledge as far as, you know,

energy application, the theories of the future use,

where it came from.

You've convinced us of that.

You've written more than just a recent book.

You've written a few books,

the most recent being the Cloud Revolution,

and that just came out this year

and it's a fascinating read.

We're sort of talking about electric cars,

trying to keep us about electric cars,

but then the whole energy issue comes into play.

So when you look at, I'm going to pick on a state,

when you look at California by,

this must make your hair spin.

By 2035, they banned the internal combustion engine vehicle.

Can they do it?

Well, governments can do almost as we've discovered recently,

almost anything they want to do.

So I'll make a prediction in two parts about California.

This will be true for England,

which has made a similar declaration.

The bans, if they stay in place,

will result in extraordinary escalation

of the value of used cars.

First, imagine because not everybody

is going to be able to buy an expensive electric car

because the electric car will still, by then,

be more expensive than an internal combustion engine,

which we could talk about,

but that will boost the number of years

used cars stay on the market, on the road,

and the value of them.

But what will more likely happen is

the bans will be softened or ignored

or just abandoned entirely because the whole world,

in fact, just the countries that are now in states

that are now proposing to do that,

can't all do it and have enough batteries.

Never mind manufacturing cars.

The central problem that's being ignored here

is not whether electric cars nice,

and tessels are nice, of course they're nice.

Impressive car, incredible company,

and kudos to somebody building a car company

that's successful by all measures,

even counting some help from subsidies

that doesn't explain it.

It's a successful car company.

Sure, absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's a proud achievement.

In fact, the most impressive engineering of a battery

probably on the planet without being hyperbolic,

it deserves enormous credit.

The last guy to try and do it was Tucker.

Yeah, exactly.

46, 47?

Yeah, or you could pick the Laurean,

if you like, and the Bricklin.

Okay, yeah.

Total failures, hard to build a car company,

even with help, and he's done it.

And look, if you think about this,

I mean, what an incredible achievement.

I believe the last I checked

that something on the order of 60%

of all automobiles sold in the Western world

at a price over 90,000, so 85, 90,000 range,

are now Tesla's.

Wow.

He's utterly dominated that market.

What's his why, Mayor Sadie's and Jaguar

and BMW are all making EVs in that price range

because he just ate their lunch.

And that's not nothing.

That's not the whole car market, obviously,

but it's not nothing.

It's a very impressive.

But here's, this is the knob of the problem,

and it's not that electric cars

are profoundly useful vehicles

and have niches bigger than now exist,

if I were predicting another sort of future snapshot,

there's 10 million electric cars today,

it will be unsurprising if there were hundreds of millions,

at least 100 million in the next decade.

There'll be a lot more electric cars.

The problem is that the batteries are not

the simple things that I think are many people's.

Had they think the electric car is quote,

simple and simpler to build

than the internal combustion engine

because you have this engine,

which you know better than I do.

I've taken a few engines apart in my life, but not recently.

The engine has got a lot of parts in it,

and it's all the moving parts in it can wear out.

And you have, so you have a simple fuel tank

and it's a complicated engine, maybe 1,000 parts.

And the trope is we have replaced a simple engine

with a complex engine with a simple motor

with two moving parts, maybe two motors,

two parts each.

But the battery, the swap is for complexity

and the fuel system.

The battery has thousands of welds in it.

The Tesla battery has 14,000 welds in it.

It has 7,000 cells.

He's hoping to get the next generation

designed down to a few thousand cells.

It has a cooling system, a heating system,

a structural system.

It has electronic control systems in it

to keep it from self-immolating, to burning up,

to maximize its performance.

It's an extraordinarily complex electrochemical machine.

And the engine that we're replacing with is a very complex

electrochemical mechanical machine, rather.

So you're swapping complexities.

You haven't eliminated complexity.

More importantly, the materials, the battery

made from the minerals, the cobalt, the lithium,

the nickel, manganese, those minerals,

the quantities of metals you require to make a battery

are roughly over the lifespan of a car.

If you count apples to apples, you

increase the quantity of materials you need

to drive a vehicle over a 10-year life by 10-fold.

Think about this.

1,000% increase in the quantity of materials

that have to extract from the earth to make a vehicle.

The parts of the vehicle that are the same,

electric and non-electric, the wheels, the tires,

the frame, they're all the same.

Seats.

The battery in an electric car weighs about 1,000 pounds.

The fuel tank is, again, you and your audience know,

70 pounds maybe.

Sure.

That's the car.

So I have a 1,000-pound fuel system.

And it takes 500,000 pounds of materials

mined from the earth to make that one battery.

Oh, my god.

Mark, hold that thought.

Let me pull over and take this pause.

When we return, Willa will rejoin us

from emanating the car.

Dr. Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.

Don't go away.

We'll be back right after this.

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That's public.com slash podcast,

paid for by Public Investing,

brokerage services by open to the Public Investing Inc.,

member FINRA SIPC,

advisory services by Public Advisors LLC,

SCC registered advisor.

Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool.

Output is for informational purposes only

and is not investment recommendation or advice.

Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

Here I come in my 57th cheese field,

little rider,

pink perfection with a custom.

Welcome back.

I'm Danny the Car Doctor here today

with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.

Mark, when we pulled over

and took that pause,

we were talking in terms of the impact

of what it takes to make that electric car battery.

Can you just recap that for the listeners real quick?

Yeah, I think this is the part that's critical

perspective, visions of a magical future

where every car has a battery in it.

They won't be the kind of batteries

that we're making today

because we can't make that many batteries

because the 1,000 pound battery,

which is about what a battery weighs

in a car to get several hundred miles of range

requires mining a variety of minerals

to make the battery.

Let's just, as the scientific term, no duh.

You got, you need steel of course,

but it's in aluminum,

but you need nickel and manganese and cobalt, lithium,

you know, the, the melange of minerals

that go into a battery.

So 1,000 pounds is a finished form,

but to make the battery,

you have to mine 500,000 pounds of materials,

raw, you know, rock and process it,

turn it into finished minerals and make a battery.

Now that, there's two things about that that matter.

First, it takes energy to do that.

It has environmental impacts to do that.

And you want to know how much that you're gonna do

if you want to know the total,

we'll call it the energy debt of making the batteries

because batteries are the form of energy.

Obviously they store energy.

So you spend energy to store energy

and you spend a lot.

It takes somewhere between 100 and 300 barrels

of oil equivalent of energy.

So 100 to 300 barrels of oil equivalent of energy

to fabricate a battery that can hold one barrel

of oil equivalent of energy.

And then you're doing all this mining and digging

and, you know, gathering of rocks to get the materials

with these giant machines that are emitting.

Well, they burn diesel fuel.

Right.

They don't own them or electric,

but if they're remote, you know,

because they have electric machines and remote mines,

but if they're in a remote mine, not close to a grid,

the generation of electricity comes from diesel machines

using oil.

In fact, the global mining industry uses almost as much oil

as the global aviation industry, as much oil.

And now, to fabricate batteries

that the scales people are talking about

will require the largest increase in mining

the world has ever seen.

And I'm saying this, it sounds hyperbolic to say that.

I'm saying this based on, not my research,

my research is fighting other people's research.

So the US Geological Survey

or the International Energy Agency itself,

which is one of the big advocates for more electric cars,

what the researchers will tell you

who look at the mineral requirements

is that the world today is not mining

nor planning to mine enough copper,

nevermind everything else, or not enough nickel,

nevermind their exotic things like lithium or cobalt,

but just the basic metals to make the quantities

of batteries and electric cars and windmills

and solar turbines that are contemplated.

Electric car uses three times more copper

than internal combustion engine.

That should be unsurprising considering you're replacing,

you know, steel engine with, you know,

a copper wound electric motor

and a lot of electric bus bar.

But the 300% increase is not nothing.

I mean, if you start making millions of vehicles

with a 300% increase in copper per vehicle,

you become a significant consumer of copper.

And that's not counting the batteries consumption

of other minerals.

So what's the solution?

Well, I can tell you as a fact,

and this is easy to find in the magic Google machine,

that the world is not now planning to,

and no governments are expanding mining,

sufficient to make enough cars

to ban internal combustion engines

in the next decade or two.

So, so are we being, you know,

California banning sale of internal combustion engines

by 35?

Car companies saying they'll be all electric by 2030.

Are they showing us the extreme

and over the next couple of years,

as I've been saying, are they going to backpedal

and all of a sudden by, you know,

three or four years from now?

Well, we can't achieve that,

but here's what we really want.

All right, I'd take the bet, the back to go to backpedal.

It won't take them a decade to backpedal.

The backpedal will start sooner,

it'll start when the prices are going up.

I mean, if you put this kind of demand,

the demand on minerals that these green energy plans

have represents, say, 400 to 4,000% increase

in demand for, depends on the mineral you pick.

So it's 400% increase in the man for copper.

It's a 4,000% increase in the man for cobalt.

It's a 1,000% increase in the man for nickel.

These are global increases in demand

to meet these plans that governments are proposing.

These are astonishing increases in demand

in a world where market prices for these minerals

rises if the demand goes up by 10% or 20%.

So what will happen if prices will go up?

So we saw this already this year.

The average price for a battery for electric car

has been going down famously

because Elon Musk and everybody falls for a decade,

and which is pretty quite remarkable.

But this year, it went down,

this year, I mean, the trailing 12 months,

it went down by a single-digit percentage point,

that's like 8% or something, 10%,

which is not a big decline.

Next year, almost all forecasts see

battery prices going up, not down.

Up, the trend will reverse itself

because of the cost of the minerals.

Here's the key fact, when you buy it,

when you buy a car, the materials that go into the car,

the bill of materials costs something and then it's labor.

So those setting aside profits,

there's just two things, right?

You have labor for machines and human beings

that you pay for and you have materials.

The same is true when you build a battery.

Batteries in electric cars today,

60 to 70% of the cost of making the batteries

just the raw minerals, materials.

And if I double the price of those minerals,

how can we possibly say the battery's gonna get cheaper?

Even if I take the remaining 30%,

which is the manufacturing machinery and labor,

and electronics and the cooling system,

and make that half as expensive,

how's that gonna get you a cheaper battery

when the 60 to 70% of the cost of the battery,

which are the minerals,

everything that's happening in the world today

is leading to those going up in price

and out of the environmental organizations.

And I say this, I think pretty confidently,

not a single environmental organization in the world

that's pushing to have more electric cars

is supporting more mining

to make it possible to have more electric cars.

So it's sort of like they want us to clean up the environment,

but don't touch the environment to do it.

Yeah, you know, I can't blame them.

They're honest about what you're mining,

but let's be honest with what has to be done.

So if you drive a car for a decade,

we can calculate easy to do,

the total tonnage, let's just do it in tons,

of oil or gasoline you'll need,

depending if you're diesel or diesel, no matter.

We know what the number.

And if you do the same 10 years for electric car,

you get to another tonnage,

which in a sense you pay for up front,

you buy the battery.

Forget how you make electricity, just look at the car.

And if you make those two comparisons,

you get a 1,000% increase

in the tonnage of materials you need

to extract from the earth

to drive a vehicle for 10 years.

This is consequential in economic terms

and environmental terms, and it's not sustainable.

It won't, I even it sounds like I'm being hyperbolic again,

it won't happen, it won't happen

because it can't happen.

So we're not gonna get there,

but we will have more electric cars

because you could get to, I don't know,

pick a number, 10% of the fleet being electric or 50.

But we're not gonna get to 50 or 60 or 100.

Hey, Mark, hold that foot.

Let me pull over and take this pause.

I'm Ron Anani, the car doctor here today

with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.

We'll both be back right after this.

Don't go away.

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertans and Safeway.

The holiday season can be exhausting

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Restrictions apply offers may vary.

Visit Albertans or Safeway.com for more details.

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended support

for Windows 10?

Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop.

Voted PC Mag's Readers Choice top laptop brand for 2025.

Thin and ultra lightweight.

The LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere

and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates

and ongoing feature upgrades.

Visit LGUSA.com slash iHeart for great seasonal savings

on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11.

PC Mag Readers Choice used with permission.

Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here

and the talent is unreal.

The best women's players on the planet

are running it back with even bigger moments

and bigger stakes.

Don't miss as Paige Becker's,

Nefisa Collier, Kelsey Plum, Brianna Stewart and more,

take the court and redefine the game.

This isn't your regular season.

This is Unrivaled where the pace is faster,

the energy is higher and every athlete shines.

Unrivaled Basketball, season two sponsored by Samsung Galaxy

tips off January 5th on TNT, True TV and HBO Max.

Running a business is hard enough

so why make it harder with a dozen different apps

that don't talk to each other?

One for sales, another for inventory,

a separate one for accounting.

Before you know it, you are drowning in software

instead of growing your business.

This is where Odoo comes in.

Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform

that handles everything.

CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR and more.

No more app overload, no more juggling logins,

just one seamless system that makes work easier.

And the best part,

Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms

for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business

whether you are just starting out

or already scaling up.

Plus, it's easy to use, customizable

and designed to streamline every process

so you can focus on what really matters,

running your business.

Thousands of businesses have made the switch

so why not you?

Try Odoo for free at odoo.com.

That's odoo.com.

Support for the show comes from Public,

the investing platform for those who take it seriously.

On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio

of stocks, bonds, options, crypto

and now generated assets,

which allow you to turn any idea

into an investable index with AI.

It all starts with your prompt

from renewable energy companies with high free cash flow

to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue

over 20% year over year.

You can literally type any prompt

and put the AI to work.

It screens thousands of stocks,

builds a one of a kind index

and lets you back test it against the S&P 500.

Then you can invest in a few clicks.

Generated assets are like EFTs

with infinite possibilities,

completely customizable and based on your thesis,

not someone else's.

Go to public.com slash podcast

and earn an uncapped 1% bonus

when you transfer your portfolio.

That's public.com slash podcast.

Paid for by Public Investing,

brokerage services by open to the Public Investing Inc.,

member FINRA SIPC, advisory services

by Public Advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor.

Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool.

Output is for informational purposes only

and is not investment recommendation or advice.

Complete disclosures available

at public.com slash disclosures.

Welcome back, Ron and Annie, the car doctor here today

with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.

He's also an accomplished author.

He's written more than a few books.

His most recent being the Cloud Revolution,

talking about the convergence of new technologies

and the next economic boom.

And I think part of that is some of the conversation

we're having here today, right, Mark?

With regard to electric vehicles

and the electric vehicle future?

Yeah, I think, you know, let's talk about the future.

The idea that I don't think electric cars

are going to take over the world

has a lot of people saying to me,

well, you know, you're not a technical,

you're not an optimist.

You don't understand how technology changes

and the future is going to be better

and there'll be better batteries.

Look, I'm really probably over the optimist

of what technologies can do

when engineers and innovators can do.

But also know what the physics limits are

and things that can't be done.

But the physics and engineering we know how to use.

You know, cars in the future are going to be,

as you know, more reliable, safer, more comfortable.

All these things are coming from

credible advances in engineering and technology.

The automatic safety systems that are emerging.

I'm not talking about self-driving,

but the, you know, let's call them

self-stopping technologies that are emerging.

Prevent us from doing bad and stupid things.

This is very exciting.

It's a great stuff.

We're going to reduce the cartridge on the roads.

We're going to make driving more comfortable.

How we change, how we fuel a car, really,

is a small ball stuff.

I mean, it's really, it's not very imaginative.

The revolutions that are going to be exciting

will be in things like robotics and manufacturing

and, you know, how we do medical diagnostics

and how we train people,

how we learn how to repair a car.

That's, but back to the car.

Let me calibrate a core physics point

to make it clear to people who say,

and when I talk about the difference between electric car,

it's battery and the gasoline power car.

The battery weighs 1,000 pounds.

You fuel tank weighs 70 pounds.

And you have to mine 500,000 pounds of stuff

to make the one battery.

Right.

And that's one battery.

That's one battery.

One battery.

Half ton battery, 250 tons of stuff dug out of the earth.

Right.

Today in the future it'll be 500 tons

because, you know, we're chasing lower grade ores.

The answer is, it'll get better.

My technology will get better.

Well, of course it will get better.

But internal combustion engines can get better too.

But they can't get better

than the underlying physical chemistry

of the materials that you're using to create energy.

So put this way.

Everybody who has an electric car

who's heard about electric cars

knows you measure the storage

of electricity kilowatt hours,

the same things you pay for with your house.

So what you'd want to know is,

and if you have a car, what you care about

is the power to weight ratio.

What gear head doesn't care about power to weight ratio.

So what I care about when I race motorcycles.

So the physical chemistry of the elitiated chemicals

from which we make a battery.

Not the battery's power to weight ratio,

but it's underlying chemistry.

Maximum of the chemicals that we use,

the elitiated cost of chemicals,

is 500 watt-hours per kilogram.

So that's what the energetics of the chemistry is.

The battery is realized in a Tesla

is about 150 watt-hours per kilogram, by the way.

So it's a lot less because it built things around it.

Machinery, hardware, you know,

control and cooling systems.

But the physics limits 500.

So what you'd want to know if you were designing

a fast car or say a drone is what's oil.

Because that's what you start with when you convert it.

And it's 12,000 watt-hours per kilogram.

Oh my God.

That's what oil is, what the oil contains.

And that's what's available.

Now, can you get 12,000 watt-hours out of it?

No, but I can get half out.

Right.

And could I ever get half of the energy

out of the 500 watt-hours per kilogram

and let the elitiated chemicals?

Sure, yeah.

But theoretical, you know,

best the prototype batteries can do that already.

So now I'm comparing,

we can do the arithmetic here, it's not complicated.

A 6,000 watt-hours per kilogram

internal combustion capability versus a 250 watt-hours

per kilogram battery capability.

These are extraordinary differences.

So can you make electric cars

or electric drones in airplanes?

Sure.

But if you want to go real fast

and carry heavy loads for long distances.

No.

You can be burning oil.

Right.

And that's the bottom line.

Hey Mark, our time is just about up.

Can I shamelessly plug you as they're a website

the listeners can go to for more information?

Lay it on us.

We can do the tech-pundit.com.

So it's the tech pundit with a hyphen.

Right.

And the Manhattan Institute website,

if you use a magic Google machine,

just type in Mark P. Mills Manhattan Institute,

they'll get you to the webpage.

You can use the Amazon magic machine

to type in my name, Mark P. Mills,

and you'll get my book.

That's what we want everybody to do

because they need this information.

They really do.

And you'll find a lot there about the change in materials,

materials revolution, the change in virtual reality.

It'll help us to learn how to repair vehicles,

change jobs, and about how to...

I think drones are coming big time,

not for people soon,

but not too far in the future.

Well, you know what we're gonna do?

We're gonna bring you back after the first of the year.

I'm asking you and telling you,

after the first of the year.

I'd be delighted.

We'll stick off the new year with some exciting ideas.

We're gonna talk about cars

and a little bit further into detail.

Thank you.

I got to run, Mark.

But listen, it was absolute pleasure, sir.

You kind of lit up everybody's world today.

No pun intended with electric cars.

So you have yourself a good rest of the holiday season.

You have a great holiday.

Thank you, sir.

Merry Christmas to you.

Yes, sir.

I'm Ron and Amy, the car doctor.

We'll be back right after this.

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway.

Blue season is here.

And the in-store pharmacy

as you covered with a free flu shot

with most insurance plans

and as a thank you, get up to $20 off your grocery purchase.

Plus it's cough and cold season.

Stock up on all the season's essentials

and get ready for relief

with discounts on items like Hall's menthol cough drops,

Tylenol, cold and flu,

and Mucinex Fast Max products.

Offer ends December 30th.

Restrictions apply and offers may vary by location.

Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended support

for Windows 10?

Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop.

Voted PCMag's Readers Choice Top Laptop brand for 2025.

Thin and ultra lightweight.

The LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere.

And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates

and ongoing feature upgrades.

Visit LGUSA.com slash iHeart

for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops

with Windows 11.

PCMag Readers Choice used with permission.

Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here

and the talent is unreal.

The best women's players on the planet

are running it back with even bigger moments

and bigger stakes.

Don't miss as Paige Becker's,

Nephysite Collier, Kelsey Plum, Breanna Stewart and more,

take the court and redefine the game.

This isn't your regular season.

This is Unrivaled.

Where the pace is faster, the energy is higher

and every athlete shines.

Unrivaled Basketball.

Season two sponsored by Samsung Galaxy

tips off January 5th on TNT, True TV and HBO Max.

Running a business is hard enough.

So why make it harder

with a dozen different apps

that don't talk to each other?

One for sales, another for inventory,

a separate one for accounting.

Before you know it,

you're drowning in software

instead of growing your business.

This is where Odoo comes in.

Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all in one,

fully integrated platform that handles everything.

CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce,

HR and more.

No more app overload,

no more juggling logins,

just one seamless system

that makes work easier.

And the best part,

Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms

for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business,

whether you are just starting out

or already scaling up.

Plus it's easy to use, customizable

and designed to streamline every process.

So you can focus on what really matters

running your business.

Thousands of businesses have made the switch.

So why not you?

Try Odoo for free at odoo.com.

That's odoo.com.

Support for the show comes from Public,

the investing platform

for those who take it seriously.

On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio

of stocks, bonds, options, crypto

and now generated assets,

which allow you to turn any idea

into an investable index with AI.

It all starts with your prompt

from renewable energy companies

with high free cash flow

to semiconductor suppliers

growing revenue over 20% year over year.

You can literally type any prompt

and put the AI to work.

It screens thousands of stocks,

builds a one of a kind index

and lets you back test it

against the S&P 500.

Then you can invest in a few clicks.

Generated assets are like EFTs

with infinite possibilities,

completely customizable

and based on your thesis,

not someone else's.

Go to public.com slash podcast

and earn an uncapped 1% bonus

when you transfer your portfolio.

That's public.com slash podcast.

Paid for by Public Investing,

brokerage services by open

to the Public Investing Inc.

Remember FINRA SIPC,

advisory services by Public Advisors LLC,

SCC registered advisor.

Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool.

Output is for informational purposes only

and is not investment recommendation or advice.

Complete disclosures available

at public.com slash disclosures.

Welcome back, we're on The Car Doctor.

You know, the mistake I made, Tom,

was I should have asked Mark

that if we could invent the flux capacitor,

would we then have, because he's right.

You know, he started talking

about the comic book magic.

And I saw in one of his interviews,

he talks about comic book magic

that everybody thinks all of this technology

is gonna fall out of the sky

and it's just not going to.

What do you mean if we,

if you go to the O'Reilly website,

they're already advertising it.

They're waiting for them to come in.

Well, a flux capacitor.

Yeah, I know that is actually,

that is actually there on the O'Reilly website,

but I could listen to him for hours.

He just makes so much sense.

That was just a great interview.

You know, it's,

I don't see how anybody can argue his points.

I just don't because, you know,

two and two has to be four.

Two and two is never seven.

And, you know, his commentary.

In one of his other interviews that I saw him do,

he also talks about how, okay,

so now you've got this electric car future on the table,

the amount of transmission lines

and towers and cables that you have to run

in order to support this,

this grid that everybody is talking about building

and the support to the infrastructure.

It's all got to be put somewhere.

The material has to be found somewhere.

You know, they also talked about solar.

We have so much to talk about with him

with regards to the way solar and renewables

and windmills, listen,

I'm not saying we're not going to have electric cars

and Mark certainly proved that point tonight today

that we're going to have electric vehicles in the future.

It's just not at the volume they're predicting.

You know, we're not going to have transporters

like Star Trek in the next 10 to 15 years.

A hundred baby, 200 probably,

but not in the next 10 to 15.

And we're not going to see a massive amount

of electric cars by 2030, 2035,

like they're predicting either.

So the back pedaling will begin soon.

I'm Ronanini in the car doctor reminding you

this time, like every time, for a great time.

Good mechanics aren't expensive.

They're priceless.

See ya.

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway.

Flu season is here.

And the in-store pharmacy has you covered

with a free flu shot with most insurance plans.

And as a thank you, get up to $20 off your grocery

purchase, plus it's cough and cold season.

Stock up on all the season's essentials

and get ready for relief with discounts

on items like Hall's menthol cough drops,

Tylenol, cold and flu, and mucinex fast max products.

Offer ends December 30th.

Restrictions apply and offers may vary by location.

Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended support

for Windows 10?

Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop.

Voted PC Mag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025.

Thin and ultra lightweight.

The LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere.

And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates

and ongoing feature upgrades.

Visit lgusa.com slash iHeart for great seasonal savings

on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11.

PC Mag Reader's Choice used with permission.

Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here.

And the talent is unreal.

Paige Becker's, Nephizakalier, Kelsey Plumb,

Brianna Stewart, and more are back to redefine the game.

Unrivaled Basketball.

Season two sponsored by Samsung Galaxy

tips off January 5th on TNT, True TV, and HBO Max.

Support for the show comes from Public,

the investing platform for those who take it seriously.

On public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks,

bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets,

which allow you to turn any idea

into an investable index with AI.

It all starts with your prompt.

From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow

to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue

over 20% year over year,

you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work.

It screens thousands of stocks,

builds a one-of-a-kind index,

and lets you back-test it against the S&P 500.

Then, you can invest in a few clicks.

Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities,

completely customizable, and based on your thesis,

not someone else's.

Go to public.com slash podcast

and earn an uncapped 1% bonus

when you transfer your portfolio.

That's public.com slash podcast,

paid for by Public Investing,

brokerage services by open to the Public Investing Inc.,

member FANRA SIPC,

advisory services by Public Advisors LLC,

SCC Registered Advisor.

Generated assets is an interactive analysis tool.

Output is for informational purposes only

and is not investment recommendation or advice.

Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures.

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About this episode

Ron Ananian hosts Mark Mills from the Manhattan Institute to discuss the complexities and realities of electric vehicles (EVs) and their impact on energy consumption. Mills highlights the significant resource demands of EV batteries, including the extensive mining required for materials like lithium and cobalt. He argues that while EVs will become more prevalent, the transition will not eliminate internal combustion engines as quickly as some predict. The conversation delves into the physics of energy storage, the challenges of scaling up EV production, and the potential for backpedaling on aggressive EV mandates due to resource limitations.

BMW cells cooling systems copper bus bar electric motor electric vehicles (EVs) EV internal combustion engine Jaguar lithium-ion battery

Bricklin SV-1 Delorean DMC-12

Original notes

While Ron and crew are making the trip back from the North Pole, having helped Santa with another Christmas Eve, here is a "Best Of" show.

Ron sat down with industry icon and physicist Mark Mills to talk about EV's from multiple views a few years ago. Its a great flash from the past and interesting to note as many of the predictions and directions are happening now.

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