Shifting Gears: The Influence of Women in Automotive History and Design
In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show
Shifting Gears: The Influence of Women in Automotive History and Design
In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show · Mar 5, 2024
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Welcome to another In Wheel Time Podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time Car Show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am, central Shieldcom.
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We're going to have Nancy Nichols, author of Women Behind the Wheel, later on.
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Time Car Talk Show.
A good morning to you everybody.
Along with Mike out of this World Mars.
We always need more.
Jeff Zeekin, I'm Don Armstrong.
Screw it up left and right, but you know what?
That's just the way that it goes.
We're back in the studio.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're back in the saddle again.
Ladies and gentlemen, all right, joining us now is Nancy Nichols and Nancy, good morning to you.
Good morning.
Can you hear me?
Loud and clear.
Can you hear us?
Excellent Good morning, good morning.
So the name of the book is Women Behind the Wheel.
Is this a racing publication?
Is this a racing-centered book?
No, not entirely here.
I have a little picture of it.
It's called Women Behind the Wheel.
Okay.
It is a personal history of my experience with cars, which would be probably very different than your experience with cars.
And I did not race.
My brother raced.
I did some street racing, but it's not essentially a book about racing.
It is more about how the so we're going to get to the book in a minute, but I want to know about your street racing.
I do do.
I'm going.
Oh, she did some street racing what did she drive?
What were you driving when you had a little street race?
So I had a very old Chrysler beater.
It was, but it had a big engine.
We did very well together.
I grew up in Illinois on the Illinois-Viscan border, so there was a great deal of rural.
You're not from Beloit, are you?
No, I'm from Waukegan Illinois.
Okay, Waukegan.
Well, I'm from Waukeshawn, Wisconsin, so there's that.
So I'm just Was South of the Nash Rambler plant that was right up.
Yes, you were.
Did you ever buy a Nash?
No, my grandmother had a Rambler.
But no, I'm not that old really to have a Nash.
Well, no, you can't say that because you could be in the collector car market and there are people that are into those and God bless them.
I saw an article just recently in one of my publications and the man was the original owner of a Rambler station wagon that is completely unrestored and all he's done is just maintain it all of these many years.
It looks like it, but that's okay, it's cool, it's got the patina on the outside, all of that.
I'm just saying there's your opportunity.
If you want one, we can fix you up and head you in the right direction.
I appreciate that, yeah, it's okay.
All right, so tell me about the book Women Behind the Wheel.
Obviously it's going to be more centered, more geared to women.
Right, it's about women's experience with the car.
It's about how the car helps shape what it means to be a modern woman.
It talks about, for example, the suffragists were the first to use the car for political action.
They draped their cars with bedsheets, essentially with their slogans, and those became the precursor to what we now know as the political bumper sticker.
So women have used the car pretty much since its inception.
Bertha Benz, who of course was married to Wilhelm Benz of Mercedes Benz, was the first to take the car on a road trip.
She just got up one morning.
She was bored with her husband and how long it was taking him and she took it to her mother.
Yeah, she stole it.
The story goes, she stole it, yeah.
She stole it.
She absolutely did not have permission to take it.
It was somewhat dangerous because there wasn't like there was a gas station at that point right.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I mean, this is back in the day when women were highly restricted on a lot of things like voting, for instance.
Correct.
That's why the suffragists used the car.
I mean women couldn't get their own car loans until the mid-1970s without a father or a son, wow, mid-70s.
The Equal Opportunity Credit Act was in the mid-70s.
See, I didn't know that either.
I was totally unaware of that.
You know, those are the kind of things that they just didn't teach in school not that I was in school in the mid-70s.
That was good to say.
Some of us were out of school before that.
Shut up Mike.
Shut up Mike.
We don't want to go there.
But you're telling me things that I did not know.
So I really think it's interesting too, because my father was a car salesman, my brother drag raced to really think about the car, and my experience of the car was so different from my father's and my brother's.
I was not allowed to take shop class, for example, even though we had an excellent shop department in my high school.
Girls were just not allowed.
Well, that's the case at my school.
Girls were not allowed in shop classes.
No, not at mine, I was in home act too.
Yeah Well, we weren't allowed to take home act.
Oh well that would be a little school down when you did that.
Anyway, go ahead.
I'm sorry, we get sidetracked here.
No, it's the same.
So you would have had a very different experience with the automobile than I did.
And that has become an issue for the industry, right?
Because women have always been involved in the purchase decisions, we can say at least since probably 1920s, but definitely post World War Two.
Women were a big part of how people bought their cars and what they bought.
But the car companies and you know this far better than I do they had to appeal to men.
You know that there is a saying in the industry that a woman will buy a man's car, but a man will not buy a woman's car.
And I can, I can, I can see that.
But you know, in my generation, I mean, we, my dad always included mom in the car purchase.
Honey, do you like the car?
Yeah, yeah, I like the car.
Ok, well, buy it then, all right.
Well, that was the way that it went.
But I also know that you know there are some professions, mainly male dominated professions, that, for instance, a truck.
I mean my experience with trucks back in the day.
I was only guys that drove trucks.
You never saw a woman driving a truck, because it was that's what they were for, unless you were in a farm or something.
Well, there's that, yes, but but generally speaking.
You know I can't speak for the farmer.
And what he did with his daughters and did he teach her how to drive the truck?
Is that where they learned how to drive?
You would know better than I, Nancy.
Well, rural women specifically, learn quite early because they had to use them for work.
I mean, when we think of so I'm in the Northeast and when we think of mud season, mud season was a thing.
It lasted for three weeks and you, your truck, would get stuck.
So the operation of a vehicle, especially if you think about it, before power steering and before power brakes, and certainly before the, the electric starter, these were things that were required a great deal of strength to to start a car, to move a car If a car got stuck, to push a car out of the snow or the mud.
So women's experience with cars was just very different than men.
Well, I asked my mother, because she'll tell you when, right before I was born, dad bought their first car.
It was an old, dilapidated 2Drainen soda.
Okay, a de Soto.
You might even know what a de Soto is, but, um, they were around back in the day and the thing had a starter issue, and so my dad taught my mother how to take the broomstick and a hammer, put it right on the starter, give the broomstick a whack.
That was on the starter down there, and by golly it started every time.
So mom was a mechanic and didn't know it.
Yeah, yes, I mean women had by necessity had to to learn to work the vehicle.
I mean, and there are some amazing stories the Queen of England was called the princess mechanic because she worked on vehicles during World War II, but by and large it wasn't the experience of most women that they worked on their cars.
Well, I would believe that, and boy, things have certainly changed, because now we have women on NHRA top fuel drag racing teams.
Mechanical CEOs of companies yes.
Automotive company yeah, exactly so things have changed dramatically and, I think, for the better.
You know I'm I'm a girl dad.
I have two girls and I've taught them everything that I knew about cars to a point that they could relate to.
You know, katie's very good about maintaining her car, making sure that the oil gets changed and that sort of stuff, and she I taught her how to drive a five speed manual transmission, which she still has that car today and drives it every day.
Crank windows we don't.
Crank windows aren't even available anymore as far as I know.
So there, there's that aspect of it as well.
I'm sorry I interrupt you, but please continue on.
Oh, I mean, I think that's laudatory.
I mean I think that's a lot of things.
I mean, I think that's a lot of things, but that was not the experience, certainly of women in my age.
But, as you say, the things who changed dramatically.
Mary Barry is Vera is head of GM.
The engineer who rolled out the electric version of the Ford F-150 is an Asian woman.
So women are more involved, but it isn't the case yet that I think the auto industry thinks about women as much as perhaps they should.
Do you have anything that's?
really fun or things that when you were doing the research on the book that you thought how weird or how fun or how strange was that.
So one of the things- that really was remarkable when I researched the book is how much the car changed the nature of romance and courting and dating was very much something, and you'll appreciate this as a father of two daughters.
It happened on the front porch, it happened with the mother and the parlor, you know, when you were romancing someone, the gentleman came to the female's house and was there right.
But when the car turned out up things changed dramatically.
So it took romance from the front porch essentially to the back seat and I you know I say in the book nothing- except the birth control pill has done more for women's sexual liberation than the car.
Now, of course, that was a double-edged sword, because it also exposed women to a great deal of sexual violence.
So it's a mixed bag.
The car in so many ways gave independence to women and in so many ways made them more vulnerable.
Yes, and I would believe that.
You know there aren't any drive-in movies anymore.
Well, very few, but I know that I took a few girls to the drive-in movie.
I'll just leave it at that.
There is a whole section in my book on drive-ins and drive-in everything.
I mean, and we saw it was really interesting during COVID that we saw the resurgence of this right, because we as older adults remember I remember going to the drive-in movie and I remember going when we first had the drive-in at McDonald's.
That was like a big thing.
But then with COVID we saw the resurgence of this People parking their cars to see a movie.
We had drive-through funerals, we had drive-through weddings where there was.
So it really brought us back.
Yes, it certainly does.
Matter of fact, Jeff and I and his wife and my girlfriend, we would go to our regular eating place on Friday.
That was closed.
You couldn't go in the dining room but you could order it on the phone and you would go and pick it up.
So it was kind of a makeshift drive-through, because they don't really have a drive-through at this particular restaurant, deliver it out to the curb.
Yeah, and they would send it out to the curb and with the waiter and give them a tip and be on our way, so yeah.
I can totally relate to that.
And if you I don't know if you are on like Instagram or Facebook you see all these confessional videos and they all happen in the car.
Yes, right, I didn't think of that.
But yes, you're right, very true.
So there are two things I think about that, and one I think is that it's simply the audio is so much better in the car because there's soundproofing in a car.
Right but second, I think it is that kind of simulated intimacy that we have of driving the car.
When we're in the car, a lot of conversations happen in the car that don't happen elsewhere because there's nothing else to do, and I think that that's part of why people are going to their cars to make these videos and they're remembering, maybe times that were earlier, or maybe it's kind of a simulated intimacy, is what I call it.
It's a level of privacy, it's a safe space.
Exactly, yeah, and it's also one that you would not want any of the things that you were in the car by yourself, the things that you would say either to yourself or to other drivers, you would never want it to get outside of the car Not all of them, but many of them, you so-and-so, or that was you Right, that was me, but that goes across the sexes, so it's not just related to women here, but I'm sure that there are a lot of similarities
between men and women when it comes to that sort of stuff and the privacy of the car.
Absolutely.
I mean, I have a boy, I have a child who's almost 30 now.
He was a soccer player.
I drove a minivan.
It was a Honda Pilot, it was a.
It was a vehicle that was really designed for women to have dual roles.
I've always worked.
I was a very active mom, very hands-on, and if you put those boys in the back of the pilot you didn't have or the pilot or your Honda Odyssey, you didn't have to say anything.
They would talk amongst themselves.
It was the only way, sometimes for a mom of a boy to really get that insight into what was going on.
So it's an educational process for mom by what mom is driving, so you could just listen to everything that was going on.
It wouldn't ease dropping because the boys knew that you were up there driving the car.
But I don't think that you know, speaking from the experience, I really didn't use or have mom in my mind when I had conversations with my friends.
Mom just listened in.
So there is a concept in car culture which is automotive maternity, which is the inside of the car, is essentially very womb-like, it's engineered to be soundproof, it's designed to make you feel safe.
There are the cup holders.
I mean, I know, you know that some vehicles have upwards of 15 to 19 cup holders.
You always have that warm milk kind of feeling.
So there's a lot of research about how we feel when we're inside our cars and you know, as you know, nothing in the manufacturer of a car is an accident.
They know what they're doing when they create these cars and they're going for certain experiences.
It's funny you should say that because Mike and I both well, I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself.
I was a member of the AutoRiders here in the state of Texas for a while and we got to meet many of the car designers from the different manufacturers and through the years that we would be invited to these reveals of these different cars, they would always bring in women that were and not on purpose women, but they were the ones that designed, for instance, the infotainment system.
I remember the lady that helped design the Ford Sync system Very intelligent, and it was wonderful talking to her.
But it's a completely different aspect of that infotainment system that she pretty much coordinated the design of because she was female and there were a lot of feminine touches that were designed into that particular system at that time that us guys really don't think about.
And it's the intimate details of this infotainment system that made it easier for us, for everybody, to actually go in and operate it, and she was the one that designed it.
Of course, you know there was a lot of input from a lot of people, but she was the one that ultimately made the final decision.
So those kinds of things and also in the design area.
We met some interior design women that were really into automotive interiors and very, very talented people.
So I hear where you're coming from and I thoroughly enjoy it being a dad.
So there's a history of this, there were women.
About eight women were brought on by Harley Earl at GM.
They were called the damsels in design and they were first women to go in.
They were from Pratt, which is a design school in New York City.
They were allowed to go in and design interiors of automobiles specifically.
Some of their concept cars were specifically for women.
They're credited with the first seat belts, the first rear view, rear windshield wipers and other other things that are very common in cars.
now it's interesting you should say that because I'm excuse me for interrupting, but like we've been to the Chrysler Museum when it existed, yes, down in the basement there's a beautiful display down there and one particular car down there was designed specifically for females and it was called FEM.
Oh, the Chrysler and the FEM.
Yes, yes, I think it's a Plymouth.
The Plymouth and the FEM.
That is the car I want.
Well, I'll let me tell you something.
If you could find one of those, buy it, because you'd be a rich woman.
One of one, yeah, absolutely.
But the tissue dispenser, the mirrors, the record player and all of the other things and all these touches that were in it that a guy wouldn't even begin to think about, but it was clear.
Right.
The makeup case in those cars fits into the back of the passenger side seat and it's a keystone shape and it has your initials in it and you can slide it out.
See, you've done your research on the same car.
I hear you, I love that car.
I love that car and, no, I can't afford it.
Exactly.
Well, I find this all very interesting and it's great to talk to you Women Behind the Wheel.
And is it coming out this week?
It is out March 4th, so here it is oh Monday, so is it like on.
Amazon or it's on Amazon, yeah.
Yeah, by Pegasus Books.
So if you're looking for a present, a gift, or even for yourself, I would encourage you, since you're listening to this car show Absolutely.
Women Behind the Wheel.
Nancy Nichols, it's a pleasure, honor and fun to talk to you.
Thank you so much.
Have a great day.
You do the same.
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Oh, let's try that again.
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How to become a stunt driver Okay, how?
do you do that?
We're going to get here loaded up just a second.
But to that point with your info in wheel time.
Mike and I are trying to coordinate the folks that subscribe so we can get them announced on the air.
But we're going to work on that.
So if you're a new subscriber, send in your information and we'll give you a howdy.
And we won't sell your stuff to some politician or anything like that.
It will just the guy down on the corner.
That's right, so we're going to do it between ourselves.
All right Time now for this hour's feature, mr.
Mr Jeffrey Zekin has how to become a stunt driver.
Well, there's several ways, but the one I picked out here.
There's several schools.
There's actually one here in Houston We'll get to that in a bit but one that I looked at was the Bobby or stunt driving school.
It stands out for its extensive educational offerings.
They prioritize having the most seat time.
So if you're in there and you want to get seat time and you really really want to learn, Bobby or stunt driving school is one of the top ones.
They got the pay to get in this.
You do.
I'm sure there's other other ways of that.
There's other schools have different prices for doing this and you can do different things.
You can do certain racing techniques, you can do stunt driving to jumps and things, but this is how it works.
You get in there and you have to have a vehicle prepared, so the participants will gain knowledge about preparing a vehicle and setting it up just to do those particular stunts they want to do.
Specialized skills the curriculum, mike, this is for you.
The curriculum is focused on specialized skills includes the mastery and refinement of 180 degree turns, sliding 90 degree turns and spot on 180 degree reverse.
You know all about that because you had your way with those on ramp acceleration tests that got out of control.
The school would be good, because I tried doing some of that before and just did that on the way here this morning.
You can learn real well on your own?
No, because you're usually in some sort of a panic trying to get out of it.
From novice to professionals.
They can take anyone in there and they'll teach you all the same way.
So on day one of stunt driving school comprehensive safety standards, briefing to prepare the vehicle You'll unlearn bad habits on the first day, and they try to help you do that.
They try to you know one hand on the wheel, two hands on the wheel.
They offer you that, that schooling.
Well, there's Mr Morris right there.
There you go.
There's one for him.
There's one for him.
Let's go ahead and put that on there.
There.
Dude, I was looking for that Day two of stunt driving school.
They will design courses for the individual.
If you're looking for something in particular, you can tell them and they'll design the course for it.
You can learn or refine the driving skills that they offer you.
It's a very comprehensive program and they'll go A to Z, soup to nuts, on everything you want to do Systematically work with breaking the bad habits, as they do on the day one, and they'll introduce some advanced techniques enabling you to execute the safe way to do some of these stunts.
So on day three, stunt driving schools are tailored for individuals who crave extensive hands-on experience.
So if you want to learn how to do jumps, they focus on that.
If you want to slide or reverse slides, they work on that.
I want to be in the car when they do one of those explosion things?
Oh no, I wouldn't.
No, sometimes those are without people in them.
But you know, go to the school and find out they could blow you up.
Let's get blown up After completing the initial course.
Then they'll get with the precision timing and they'll look at what you want to do and then they'll hone those techniques for the drifting techniques, both front wheel and rear wheel drive.
So they'll give you a brief recap and then they'll tell you whether you're worth going ahead and doing it if you want to get more.
So some of the driving schools and of course John is probably at one right now with the Barber, right, the Barber.
But you've got Bondurant School of High Performance Driving in Chandler, arizona.
They do that.
Skip Barber School in New Jersey and in Houston.
They do that.
Allenburg Racing Schools in Canada, team O'Reilly, team O'Neill Rally School in Dalto, new Jersey, and of course the Bertolt Ruse Racing School in Palm Beach and in Pocono.
So any one of those you can satisfy your need for speed, become a stunt driver and someday you might be doing it.
And this is for men and women, for novice and all that good stuff.
I get to know one of those stunt drivers out in Hollywood and go by word of mouth.
Oh, you know Jeff Zeekin, with the Jeff Zeekin Stunt Driving Academy.
He sent me.
Oh, okay, well, we'll get you right, he knows Mike Mars, so you're in.
Yeah, exactly.
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About this episode
Exploring the pivotal role of women in automotive history, Nancy Nichols joins the In Wheel Time Podcast to discuss her book 'Women Behind the Wheel.' The conversation delves into how women have influenced car culture, from early suffragists using cars for political activism to modern advancements in automotive design. Nichols shares personal anecdotes, historical insights, and the evolving relationship between women and cars, highlighting both empowerment and challenges. The episode also touches on the impact of cars on romance and social dynamics, making it a rich exploration of gender and automotive history.
Original notes
Ever wondered how the roar of an engine and the sleek curves of a car's design can tell a story of empowerment and innovation? Nancy Nichols, the mind behind "Women Behind the Wheel," joins us to shed light on the profound ways cars have fueled the journey towards modern womanhood. As Nancy takes us on a ride through history, we explore the roads paved by suffragists, celebrate Bertha Benz's audacious road trip, and address the gender roadblocks that once stalled women from purchasing cars without a male co-signer. Nancy even shares a personal anecdote of her own street racing days, much to my amazement and delight.
Driving isn't just a physical act; it's an emotional experience, a theme we explore in conversations about the surprising intimacy found within the confines of a car's interior. We unpack the reasons behind the heart-to-hearts that happen in the driver's seat, the design nuances that make a car feel like a protective cocoon, and the impact women have had on the automotive design landscape. From the "Damsels of Design" at GM to the feminine flourishes that now grace our dashboards and door panels, we celebrate the female touch that has steered the automotive world in new directions.
Revving up the excitement, we shift gears to the adventurous side of the auto industry. We spotlight the legacy of ProAm Auto Accessories and their global influence, applaud the charitable endeavors of God's Garage, and tease the adrenaline rush of learning stunt driving with professionals like Bobby Ore. As the episode comes to a close, we extend an open invitation to our listeners to join us live for more high-octane discussions, where we continue to share our passion for all things automotive.
Fasten your seatbelts—it's going to be an exhilarating ride!
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In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show
In Wheel Time Podcast | Automotive talk with Don Armstrong, Michael Marrs, and Jeff Dziekan
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