Should the Auto Repair Industry Take Notes from the Heavy Duty Trucking Industry? | Mathieu Patenaude

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I sound like I'm constantly waving a flag to a ballish flat rate,

but I'm not.

People have to appreciate more what the techs,

the obstacles that's in place for them when they're paid that way,

and then adjust accordingly.

I think that's what it is.

Do you think in your opinion

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I think it was probably optimized for the 60s.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen,

to another exciting episode of the Jade Mechanic Podcast.

It's a nice Saturday night.

We're finally out of the heat wave,

and your boy was fishing today,

so that's always a good day.

But what I wanted to share with everybody tonight

is somebody that I just got the pleasure

of getting to know a little bit recently,

again, through the podcast,

and we have some,

we've probably driven some of the same crappy stretches

of highway.

Mr. Matthew Patinode from the Ottawa area,

which is, I'll call that by second home,

is a mobile technician,

mobile diagnostic and programming.

So, Matthew, how are you doing, brother?

I'm good, yourself?

Very good.

Little steps from fishing, but other than that.

Well, that's a good day then.

It is.

We had frost, actually, first thing this morning

in my area.

Oh, really?

We were out in my area, so,

and the fingers got a little numb by,

so about 10, 30, 11 o'clock,

we're like, well, the fish are not,

we're not hammering them,

so let's like, let's call it a day,

because we were up,

we were there before the sun was up, so,

you know, six o'clock,

we were getting the first fish in the boat.

So, I mean, it's by 10 or 11,

if they start to heat her out,

I don't need to stay out there all day

when my hands are cold, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, what about yourself?

Doing anything fun today?

Not really.

Worked.

In the shop, yeah.

That's pretty much all we did today.

Right on.

Yeah, nothing exciting.

So, tell us kind of a little bit about yourself

and your business and whatnot.

He's from the Ottawa area, folks,

which is like where I spent a big portion

of my career working

before coming back home to Kingston area.

Ottawa is a really cool,

really cool city,

a really cool area,

beautiful part of the country.

It's in for a lot of American listeners.

It's in Ontario, Canada.

So, it's two hours away from me.

Our nation's capital,

kind of like your Washington,

I guess you'd say,

and a very eclectic mix of people

who are in Ottawa.

And that's what I was talking with

Matthew before.

What is that going to be like

to be doing mobile in that kind of area?

So, Matt, you give us the kind of the rundown

on how you started it

and all that jazz.

Well, the way I started this was

I started my career professionally

working for a school bus firm, actually,

and I worked there for,

I would say about seven years,

loved it,

but I started doing this

nights and weekends,

you know, like most of the guys do

after hours,

and eventually it got to the point

where I got so busy

that it was kind of

interrupting with both the work

and also my business.

So, at one point,

I had to make the decision

what do I do,

and that's when I decided

I'm going to go on my own

and that was back in 2002.

So, then I went out on my own,

I worked out of a Jeep Cherokee in 1988.

That's how I started,

I'm very good or not.

And then from there,

I went to a truck and trailer setup,

you know, to do the

and I actually used to pull my toolbox

in the back of that trailer,

believe it or not,

every night

and that got scary.

Yeah.

You know,

because then every

I'd have to get up early

to go back to the shop

and load my toolbox,

I can do my day

and then, you know,

just load it back up at night

and we're not,

we're talking like a snap on

2003 series,

not a little mastercraft.

And yeah, so it just,

it grew from there

and I just started

getting more and more work

and then, yeah,

I just expanded and expanded

and it's been going on

for 23 years now.

So when you started out

on doing kind of the,

I'll call it the side hustle,

did you focus on

like doing dyag and stuff

or were you?

Yeah.

Where did you do that?

That's basically what

like, I don't know

if your listeners will know

like I do more heavy,

like I'm truck and heavy equipment.

That's that's my,

that's my thing.

I don't do automotive.

Okay.

So I've always been like big

into the the dyag.

That's my that's my thing.

That's the thing I love the most.

Yeah.

I do a lot of dyag

and I go and dyag stuff at night

and then do some,

some obviously you got to do

some general repairs.

You can't just,

you know,

live on just dyag.

Kind of like what

Chuck is doing right now,

actually,

how he started doing everything.

And then,

you know,

and then he figured out that

maybe,

you know,

I need to pick my battles here,

you know,

because

and,

yeah.

So,

because you know what

the trucking market could be

right?

Like,

especially in the big cities,

you can get into some real,

I'll say that challenging

modified jobs that

like,

even sound simple

when you hear it over the phone

and you get out there

and you see how modified it is

or.

Well, that's it.

Yeah.

Toad and mud

or how rusted or,

you know.

Yeah.

And you can never

get like a straight answer

from,

from the people,

right?

So,

you know,

it's a no start.

Well, does it turn over?

Well, what do you mean?

Yeah.

Well, does the end,

is it just clicking

or just turning on like,

you know,

like you can't get

now I'm to the point

where sometimes

they don't even know

what engines in it

because I need to know

sometimes,

like if I get a service call,

I need to know,

well,

what am I bringing

preemptively?

And like,

like,

so now I go by color.

Well,

just open the hood,

what color is it?

And then we'll go from there,

right?

Like it,

it were,

that's where we're at now.

It's unfortunately,

but you know,

so we do a lot of,

we do a lot of that,

a lot of service calls,

like to get the roadside

and on stuff like that.

Yeah.

And I've done that not at

the degree of like

having to go out

and do a ton of dye.

I've had to go once

in a while

and do like,

they kind of have a suspicion

that it's a starter.

So you mean you might go

and like,

you know,

check it out

and yeah,

it needs a starter.

And then it becomes a situation

of like,

okay,

like,

can I get this going

by hitting it with a hammer?

You know,

and like,

everybody,

this cringe is what you say

that,

right?

But us old school heads,

we know

it's not,

you can save a lot

of diagnostic time.

And if you can get it going

again,

I mean,

as long as you never

shuts it off again,

he can probably get to

where he has to be

even if you,

you know,

cross the border into the U.S.,

right?

Like as long as he,

just,

you know,

nobody makes the truck driver

most of the time shut it off

on their fueling,

right?

And on like a car.

So,

yeah,

except a lot of fleets

now,

they'll have them

time shut down the timer.

That's a problem.

It is.

So,

you know,

and it's not so bad now

because most of the trucks

are automatic also.

So there's less chances

of them like stalling

the truck,

you know what I mean?

So they can,

but yeah,

like nine times out of 10,

though,

it's not a starter.

It's usually a broken wire

right between those,

the relay and the solenoid

on the new 39MTs

and stuff like that.

So,

but I go and get lots of them

and it's like,

okay,

now I got to figure out

which trucks,

you know,

center

has one in stock

and then go get it

and then bring it back

and,

you know,

start the process of

taking it off

and then deliver the car

after the fact or whatever.

Like that was,

that was my fun days.

And the thing too,

that's changed in the industry

from when I've started to now,

I've noticed a lot of the

trucks back when I started in this.

A lot of stuff was,

was uniform,

you know,

the alternators,

you can get away with having

one or two alternators,

same with starters.

Yeah.

You can change the,

the cone on it,

the index it,

you know,

you can,

you can get away.

Now, though,

there's like actual specific,

like brand.

Oh, yes.

You know,

like specific parts

that they may not have in stock.

So,

you know,

20 years ago,

I can,

I can confidently say

I can get your truck going

or, you know,

there's a good chance

I'll get it going.

But now it's,

that's changed over the years.

And I remember we used to go out

and just change the mag switch,

you know,

on the back of the starter,

the big,

you know,

I used to keep them in stock.

Yeah.

And for people that don't know,

like a lot of the heavier trucks

have a mag switch mounted up

and then a solenoid

still on the starter

because of the amount

of amperage that we're drawing,

right.

And the mag switches will go bad

a lot more frequently

than the solenoid

because the solenoid

will get really heavy,

but the mag switch is mounted remotely.

And it kind of like,

think of it as,

it's just another relay.

It's all it is.

And,

but I've,

I've seen instances

where we've been able to get it going

by,

you know,

putting on a starter

that wasn't meant to have a mag switch,

but we could use that starter

because it would bolt up

like Matthew was talking about

and get the truck going again,

right.

Like it was good.

Now he's exactly right.

Like,

and we're getting into,

you know,

more of the things

where it used to be

just the old school stuff

you went in

and pushed the button

or went down

to jump the relay

and the truck would crank.

Now it's,

they're just like cars.

They've got way more and more interlocks

and stuff that's stopping you

cranking the truck up.

So,

yeah.

Yeah.

Frustrating.

It is.

It's harder to,

to plan your,

your service calls.

Now the one thing

that is helping me a lot

lately is the,

all the,

like the geotabs and all the,

I can,

I can remotely access the trucks

from here before I leave.

So if a driver says,

well, I'm derated,

well that could be

so many things.

Most of the time it's low coolant.

Yeah.

And it's just the engine protection

that kicks in.

Yeah.

Then you get there

and you're adding a jug of coolant

and then you have to call his boss

and say,

well,

it just needed a

a leader of coolant,

you know.

But sometimes,

sometimes it's after treatment stuff

and I can preemptively

figure out what I need

before I,

so I can stop in at,

at the parts house

or the,

the dealer

and get whatever component I need,

you know,

that I think I need

and then

diagnose it from there.

So in,

in the Ottawa area,

how far,

like,

do you travel?

I'm assuming you stay

like on this side of the,

the Gatineau border,

right?

The,

you stay on the Ottawa side

or will you go?

No, I'll go,

I'll go all the way up to

Manitick or,

or Manny Walkie.

I'll go,

I'll go up north if I have to.

Over the years,

I have shrunk down the area.

Like I used to go to Kingston

like often.

Yeah.

It's,

now it's just,

I don't need to

and I'm also 47 years old

and I don't feel like driving

for three hours to go,

you know,

so at the times of change.

But yeah,

I do about 150 kilometer

as a crow flies from YRM.

Very cool.

You know,

but then again,

I have,

I have good clients

that if,

like if they were broken down

in Toronto,

well,

and they really need me to go

down there,

I wouldn't,

like if,

that's,

that's not an issue, but.

Yeah.

What do you think of the Ottawa

winters for working?

Horrible.

Yeah.

It's horrible.

And they don't get better at age.

They really don't.

I'm telling you.

God.

And,

and I grew up in Kingston.

I can still remember my first

winter in Ottawa

and everybody kind of joked

about it.

They said,

because Kingston,

we're right on the shore of the

lake.

So we get the lake effect.

So when it does get cold

from the lake,

you're staked cold.

But it takes a lot longer

to get cold.

I remember my first year

in Ottawa,

we're standing outside of the

Rideau Center,

waiting to catch a bus.

Yeah.

It was freezing.

And I mean,

we weren't dressed well.

I didn't have a car in Ottawa yet.

This was like my second year

going to school up there.

And like we're standing there,

not dressed for.

And everybody else was just

laughing because we're in park,

they're in parkas

and big winter boots.

And just to get on and off the

bus.

Yeah.

They're sneakers, right?

In like

December

and freezing.

And people are just laughing

at me.

And I think about it now

because it's,

Ottawa isn't a valley people.

So it like literally gets a

a cold air funnel

almost all the time.

Yeah.

It's a really cool part of the

world,

but it is cold in wintertime.

Cold and damp.

The streets suck to try and

drive around,

you know,

in the wintertime,

especially like they don't do

snow removal like they do

here.

Much or else,

no removals worse again

than Ottawa,

but it's pretty damn close.

Like they,

Yes.

You know,

there's a reason they don't

allow you to park on the

streets because they don't

intend to hardly do the

sidewalk.

So they barely like

they let the cars keep the

snow off the road.

That's actually true.

Yeah.

That's pretty much how they do

it.

Yeah.

So they rely on the fact

that cars drive to melt the

snow.

And the OC transport buses,

you've probably seen them

right?

They've stuck the OC

transport buses sometimes.

All the time.

Yeah.

All the time.

And now I can't wait to see

how this train's going to

because I hear it's

getting stuck too,

because they went and put

hills on it and it's just

I'm laughing people because

what he's talking about is

called the O-Train was like

was supposed to be a five-year

project that took like

15 years to get built

it didn't really go

anywhere that anybody was

going.

But again, government

infrastructure is like,

well, eventually it's going

to run all the way

from the West end to the

East end,

which is a big,

big feat to achieve

in Ottawa

because there's a logistically

it's,

it's different.

Yeah.

And it is been,

I don't know how many

billions of dollars over

budget and how many years

behind schedule

and it still has

like they,

the week they rolled it out

the very next week

I remember reading in the news

here,

there was like they have

all kinds of issues

with just randomly shutting

down and all this kind of

stuff.

So.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It's,

it's a terror tonight.

I can still remember

seeing the

the OC transport buses

on the snow

because they all run

snow tires up here.

They'd be stuck on the

off-ramps

when they're,

you know,

trying to go around

and then you want to see

traffic back up

and it was crazy.

Especially the,

there are accordion buses.

Yes.

It gets,

it gets pushed from the rear

of the unit.

Well, what do you think is

going to happen?

You're pushing a rope up a

hill.

You're going to get stuck.

Just like,

I don't know.

Yeah.

I'm waxing nostalgic.

You're making me miss that

city.

What is like

kind of get me

when you first started at

what was kind of like

a typical

typical call

for you

when you were starting out?

Anything, I guess.

Anything.

That's the thing.

I was young and gung-ho

and I take anything.

If I didn't,

if I didn't know,

I'd figure it out.

I'd learn and then I just,

I go through the process

and then figure it out and

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I've done a lot of things

you know,

over the years.

Now then

as I,

the business grew

and then I,

I had a fixed location

that I could do stuff in.

So then it,

then it became

parsed into two different

there's the road calls.

So the road call is like

get you going,

get you,

you know,

but I'm not gonna,

I'm not gonna drop a

transmission,

let's say for example,

or you know,

on,

on.

Now I have done engine work

in other people's shop

and I do work

in other people's shop that

have,

if they're well equipped and

you know,

I know that

the whatever I'm working on

isn't gonna get disturbed

by,

by other people,

you know,

like I'll do it

in another shop,

but for the most part,

I can't.

Yeah.

And,

but now all the bigger stuff

like the in frames

and the,

the clutch work

and all that,

that's all done

in house here.

Yeah.

You bring it to your own location.

That's right.

Yeah.

You kind of have to

A for quality control.

That's exactly why.

Yeah.

It's trying to do it

at somebody else's place.

Like you said,

it can be

not saying there's a bunch of

people that go out

and throw a bunch of extra

bolts in the side of the

engine to sabotage you,

but I mean,

it's,

it's one of those things where

it's your work area,

you keep it clean,

you keep it organized,

you keep a stitch of that one.

Well,

and a lot of times it's not even

the,

it's the people that just don't

understand

like I was doing a head gasket job

on an MBE 900 Mercedes

engine at one point

and,

and you know,

they were grinding,

grinding beside it.

And I'm like,

guys, like,

Yeah.

You can't do that.

I got an open engine here,

like,

you know,

and then a lot of customers

sometimes they don't,

they don't understand that.

And I'm like,

they're like,

well,

why can't you do that here?

Well, I'm not,

I'm not going to

open your engine

outside in your yard,

you know,

your dusty yard,

you know,

like it has to be some control.

Like I want to have some control

over the

stuff like that,

but

and I'll do like,

I'll do suspension work on site.

If I have to,

like I've done another

that enough of that,

you know,

I'll do air bags

or driveline,

you know,

stuff like that.

I'll do brakes too,

like if you need,

you need

any kind of like drums

or shoes or whatever.

That's not an issue.

Yeah.

I used to do a pile of them

right in our parking lot

when I worked at the truck shop

years ago,

like right inside in the summertime,

especially it wasn't a bad job

out in the summer.

In the wintertime,

like we didn't even try it.

We would drag it into the shop

and it wasn't a big shop.

So it was,

it was,

that was a

manipulant like a kind of

challenge to get two trailers.

You could fit two trailers

side by side,

but the door was really only

wide enough to bring one in.

So you kind of had to bring one in,

use a forklift to shove it over

and right.

Yeah.

Get the wheels off,

like the duals up against the wall,

that was

and it would get it.

Yeah.

You know, and you may do like,

that's the thing about the

the trucking thing is,

you know,

and everybody goes,

Oh, it's so it's so,

you know,

it's exactly the same.

No, it's so different

because like every scenario,

almost to where you're working on

adds so many layers of time

that nobody's thinking about like,

the job only pays this.

They're thinking about like,

he's going to be on the job

for two days.

I'm paying him for two days.

Yeah.

Let's travel to get there.

That's how the

the mentality works.

Right.

So when we hear about the big prices,

that's a lot to do with it is like,

if I'm coming to you,

especially like the little obstacles

that you're not set up for

and I got to run out and do this

or I got to go and find this tool

or make do because you don't have

a working whatever.

That's all adding to the bill.

People just pay it.

You know,

we can work a lot in the automotive

side from that,

that aspect,

you know,

it's I miss it,

man.

Some days I miss it.

And then I think about like beating

kingpins out like when I was younger.

And I'm like,

I don't miss that for a minute.

I am actively looking at a good

kingpin press at this point

because I did a set there a couple

of weeks ago and I'm like,

well, boy,

to be swinging sledges at the,

you know,

like all all day long to get those.

You know,

it's not like down south where they

pull the lock pin and then use

a little hammer that comes out.

Yeah, that doesn't happen out here,

guys.

I'm sorry.

It does not.

I probably,

I bet you in my career,

50% of cut it with a torch.

You know,

Oh, yeah.

And that too,

are you just,

they just or a lance.

Yeah.

They do not come out any other

stupid way.

And, you know,

you know,

you and I know that if you've had to

put that much heat into that

axle end to get that kingpin out,

like it's not.

I don't like doing that.

I really don't.

But sometimes you like,

you got to,

you got to apply a little bit of

heat and

science to get it out.

Right.

You would do it.

And then you'd see it next year.

That kingpin was Waller Day again.

You know what I mean?

I just think we've changed that

metallurgy so much that like,

even when you put a new kingpin

in the bearings and the customer

greases it every day,

like there's,

it's still,

you've wallered it.

You know,

there's no round it.

And you got to look at it and go,

it's an old truck.

Like this is maybe what you're

going to have to do now.

Every couple of years you're

putting the kingpin in it

because,

you know,

that's right.

We didn't,

we didn't,

you let it go too long the

first time.

Right.

So.

Yeah.

And a lot of guys don't

specter trucks correctly also.

That's another problem.

A huge problem.

Right.

It's a huge problem.

I mean,

you got a 12,000 pound

front end,

you know,

what did you expect?

You're going to go through

kingpins, right?

Like it's,

or liquid load is a whole other

thing that like when I talk to

automotive techs

and you start talking about

like liquid load,

that's a completely different

the way it,

it breaks stuff

is so different.

You know what I mean?

Cause every time you hit the

brakes,

you're completely shifting a

whole lot more weight.

Oh, yeah.

It's just a static load

and people are like,

oh, I never thought about

that.

Like it,

you know,

liquid loads would burn the

front brakes off constantly.

And they're like,

I don't understand this.

Like my drivers and it's like,

it's the driver's

problem.

He's breaking too hard,

too late.

Yeah, too late.

Yeah.

And I had a service call once

like that one,

a little single axle

with air ride.

And the service call was for,

it was riding rough

and he thought the air,

the suspension wasn't airing

up.

And I get there

and I'm looking at the tires.

I'm like,

those seem pretty bulged for,

you know.

And then I look at the airbags.

Oh no, there,

there is air in your airbags

and open the door.

And he was hauling

cream for ice cream

from front to back.

And that is heavy.

Like that is heavy, heavy.

And I'm like, yeah,

you're going to have to unload

this too.

If you like,

this is nothing I can do here.

Yeah.

So I tell the story all the

time I got,

I used to,

years ago we had the Kim,

we had a contract with Kimco

Steel in Kingston,

which you probably are aware

of Kimco Steel.

Yeah.

And we will go down to,

to grease the trailers on a

Friday night.

That was our routine.

And then we all parked in

the yard and some of them

would be loaded with a load of

steel.

And you get down there to grease it

and you'd see that the

wheel seal was leaking.

Okay, no big deal.

There was a wheel seal in the

truck and all that stuff.

We would start doing it.

Well, I don't know how many

trailers I started to jack up

and not steel load would shift.

And you'd start to see the,

the pump jacks start to like

sink into the mud.

Yeah.

It was a, you know,

a dirt parking lot.

Yeah.

And I would call the boss

and like put it back down on

the ground, leave it alone.

Don't get underneath it.

Like, you know,

they'll unload the trailer.

They'll just have to offload

that load on another one.

We'll fix trailer later.

Like I was very lucky.

I never had a boss say,

just get it done.

I don't care about your safety.

You know, that was,

that was key.

Oh, yeah.

I know.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

You know, I'm, I'm keen on,

I'm big on that.

I won't work on loaded trucks.

I won't load on that.

Like it takes two minutes

to unload a truck.

And if you,

like if you don't care

about my safety,

well, I mean,

it is what it is, right?

Yeah.

It is, yeah.

Especially liquid loads.

Yeah.

So can I ask,

with your business,

are you still just kind of like a

loan operator?

Do you have some people

helping you out or?

Right now, I'm,

I'm, I'm a one man wrecking crew.

Yeah.

I have a friend

that gives me a hand occasionally

like to help me out.

He's another 310T guy.

Great guy.

But right now,

we're in the midst of

right now expanding.

So we are looking

at a fixed location

and we are,

we are going to be looking for

some,

some techs.

Yeah.

Soon enough.

Very cool.

Is there a shortage in Ottawa?

Like there is?

Yes.

I was going to say,

it doesn't seem to matter

who I talk to,

where it's always the same.

You know,

I can remember

when I lived there,

a lot like OC Transport

was snapping up a lot of talent.

You know, a lot of guys,

OC to, to,

to, I mean,

it's shift work

and unionized.

And you know,

there's,

there's drawbacks

and politics

and all that kind of stuff.

But I can remember like

several guys I knew

went to work at OC Transport.

Yeah.

Just like,

stay in their lane,

do their one thing.

Like they were,

you know,

I can remember when they were paying

the guys to wash the buses,

we're getting paid higher

than a lot of the techs in the city.

You know what I mean?

I think it was crazy

and all you did was wash the bus.

That was it.

And wash the buses all night long.

Yeah.

Your biggest hurdle was

cleaning puke at one point

because somebody puked on the bus.

That was your,

the low light of your day.

I'm like, wow.

Okay.

It's not like,

you know,

getting under a garbage truck

or, you know,

all that kind of fun stuff

that I've done in my past.

Do you work on garbage trucks?

No.

And it's not because

I haven't been approached to do so.

It's just, yeah, it's,

they, uh,

no, I don't do garbage trucks.

I'm pretty,

right now I have a good,

a good,

like good clients,

like good set of clients

that I,

that I tend to and,

so no,

but I could just imagine,

can you imagine working on?

Now that being said,

though,

I did have the contract

at a local municipality

and I did have to take care

of the equipment

at the,

the landfill.

That was not fun.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

That sucks.

The summers,

summers.

I'll say this about garbage trucks.

You'd rather work on them

in the wintertime

than the summer.

Yes.

They don't smell as bad.

Yeah.

I remember this,

this one call I got.

They,

they ran over a mattress

and the mattress wrapped

around the dryer shaft

of the loader

and ripped all the hydraulic lines.

And it was stuck

where it was stuck.

And it was like 30 degrees

that day

and just

prudely hot.

And I was like

doing all I could

just hold my lunch

to be able to finish

the friggin job

and get this,

this thing back

and running.

Yeah.

I,

I found on my two though

that they're,

they,

the customer sometimes

in the trucking side

of things

are a lot more appreciative.

You know what I mean?

Like that's true.

Yes.

Really get the,

because that's,

I've talked about it before.

They,

that's how they make

their money, right?

That's right.

Yeah.

Get back to them working.

They're so happy.

Like, I mean,

yeah, sometimes they get the

bill like at the end

of the month

they're all like,

frig.

You know, I didn't think.

Yeah.

But that truck

probably produced

four times

whatever that bill

was.

So at the end of the day.

Yeah.

So what's that?

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Go ahead.

And it's,

it's funny you say that

because I listened

to your podcast

and because I'm,

I'm a little detached

from the automotive side

and I listened to the struggles

on,

and especially with Lucas

and David's side,

and they're like,

well, I don't have that kind of

issue because for me,

it's more about like,

the truck needs to go.

Like it needs to work.

And especially

when it's a specialty truck,

like a,

like a concrete pump,

like say,

for example,

or something,

you can't just go to budget

and rent the truck for the day.

You know,

that truck needs to work.

So that the dynamics

is a little different

when it comes to that.

You know,

so yeah.

And that's the specialized

stuff is it almost like

it's like a license

for money.

It's the same thing.

You know,

like,

I've seen the car haulers

like those guys

when they pull in

and they're broke.

Oh yeah.

They're like,

because it's just like

as you said,

you can go to enterprise

and rent a truck.

You can go to budget

and rent a truck.

You can go to a surgeon

or,

you know,

any of these places.

And if your truck is down,

they'll lease you another

truck for a month.

No problem.

They're glad to do it.

And you hook up to your

trailer and you go back

down the highway,

right?

Like it's no big deal.

Program your phone.

Done.

When you have a specialized

piece of equipment,

it's a completely

different thing.

They're talking like,

they're losing money

so fast it could,

you know,

they could lose their whole

quarter in a matter of week

if that truck is out.

So it's a big difference.

And that's what I keep saying

from the automotive side.

Like everybody thinks,

oh, my customer doesn't have

the money.

My customer doesn't have

the money.

The customers all,

I'm going to say it,

they might not even have

the money,

but they probably all value

their,

their transportation

to the same level

that we have been,

Matthew and I have been

used to dealing with people

that use a car

or truck for a piece of

business.

They're,

the reliance is the same.

Right.

The function that it serves

is a little different.

One is making money

and one's just costing us money.

But it's the same,

their priority is still the

same.

I need my vehicle.

So when we say,

oh, they can't afford that,

they can,

they can.

We just have to make it

feasible for them,

show them why,

you know.

So my brother's without a

vehicle right now.

And,

you know,

he talks to me every day

about how frustrating that

is to not have a car.

And I go,

yeah,

but you know,

we kind of,

he had a 2012

ranger that we finally scrapped

it with your rotten and

was not worth putting tires on,

was not worth putting brakes on.

And that's the thing.

And it's now the market has

changed so much from 2012

when he bought that.

He's in a situation right now

where he's like,

oh my god,

even look at the price of the

used stuff.

And I'm like,

yeah,

it's bad,

you know.

Yeah.

So our customers can't afford it.

Don't,

don't tell yourself for a second

that they can't.

They will,

they will find the means

100%.

So it'll might suck,

but they'll find the means.

Yeah.

So what,

so this new kind of going

forward,

what do you,

what are you hoping to build?

What are you hoping to?

Well, it's going to be a fixed

location that's,

we're actually acquiring

another business that's

more on the hydraulic side.

Okay.

Going to be,

because we also do hydraulics

right now.

So we would be adding the,

like that business,

what our business and merging

those two together.

So I'm hoping it's going to

do something,

something pretty good.

And you know,

like eventually grow it to,

because eventually what I,

what I want to do,

my ultimate goal is,

I want to be able to teach

and show.

And,

and this location

that we're getting

actually has like a whole

conference room that,

like,

that we could actually host

like,

like training seminars and stuff.

So hopefully like,

like I would love to,

to be able to do that.

That's the ultimate goal

at the end of the day.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

Kind of neat.

Well,

whereabouts in the area?

Can I ask?

It's,

well, it's going to be more,

more east towards,

towards Hawksbury area.

Okay.

Yeah.

That isn't Orleans forever.

Like I said,

you,

we were talking once you,

you bought a truck from the

dealer that I used to work at

way back.

Well, it's the,

it is the truck I'm still

using to this day.

I bought that Ram in,

in 2008.

And it is my,

my flagship vehicle.

Yeah.

People rip it off me that like,

Dodge doesn't build a good product.

And that's like,

I don't know, 2008.

You're still driving it.

Oh, that's,

so my first one was a no three

Dakota.

Yeah.

That was pulling a trailer.

And it's to this day,

still operational.

I sold it to a friend of mine

that uses it to plow his yard.

So she was a good,

she was a good unit.

Yeah.

You guys know what I keep saying.

Oh no, they're terrible,

but they just need maintenance.

Is that kind of thing else?

You know, but yeah.

Yeah, but they're,

they're serviceable.

That's the thing I like about

the Mopar products is

they're serviceable.

Like,

like there's not really any job

that on the,

on any of them,

like we own like three of them.

And you know,

I can't think of anything that

I'm like dreading doing.

You know what I mean?

Like,

and, and you know,

you hear the car guys,

the automotive side talking about,

oh, there's so many electrical

problems in Chrysler.

But I mean,

coming from the heavy truck side of

things that I did as well as you do,

we don't even look at as like,

as one brand as like

right full of electrical problems,

right?

We just look at it as like,

it's just another electrical

problem on another truck.

Like it's just what it is.

You know, some of it is

human error,

upfitting does a lot of damage

to a lot of trucks.

Like when they add on things

that are they need on there,

it causes issues with

what should be a simple thing

to access.

And all of a sudden,

like a nightmare,

like you just,

you know,

I adapt and overcome.

That's how you do it.

But I mean,

I love the product.

I think it's great.

Like I always have.

I just,

it's something about it clicked

with me.

And it was like,

yeah, the build quality sometimes

was like, what?

You know, they take a

place together with no heat

shrink.

Like it's just taped with hockey

tape and stuffed under a carpet.

Like that's not good.

But then we remember.

But have you ever worked on Hino?

Oh, yes.

There's no,

there's no,

absolutely no weather proofing

of all the electrical connectors.

So they get a little bit of salt

because we get a lot of salt out

here.

It doesn't take much to

throw a wrench in that gear.

But see,

Hino's are built for Japanese

climate.

Right.

So yeah,

it's like,

they don't,

they don't have the kind of

weather that we have in Japan.

Like it's,

no,

you know,

it's wet there,

but not wet and salty.

Wet and salty is a completely

different chemical.

It's just cool.

Oh, it's just,

I worked on a lot of Hino's.

I worked when I worked at the

Benson's Grash here.

They were a Hino affiliate.

So I mean,

like we had a lot of them come in.

I didn't get into too much.

Like we had one technician

that was

a really trained high up on Hino

and he was phenomenal on the

product.

But I would look at that product

and it was like,

it was just weird.

Hey,

like it was the way it was first

put together.

And then during COVID,

they had a whole thing

where,

you know,

they stopped essentially being

able to get engines

to put in these trucks or

anything.

Yes.

And apparently,

Hino USA doesn't

talk to Hino Canada.

So there might,

there might not be inventory in

in the country,

but there is in the States,

but they have no way of checking

or knowing.

So it's just,

Yeah.

They build a really good truck

for what it's intended for.

I'll say that.

But it's hard

because the customer support,

product support's not there yet

the way it really should be,

which is too bad because,

and like some of them,

they went and put a little

Cummins engine in it

and they're great.

There's a whole learning curve

when the Cummins gets in

and it replaces the Hino

and there's a whole other

operating software system

and all this kind of stuff.

Like it was,

my buddy still works for,

you know,

a Hino affiliate

and there's a whole learning curve

that you had to go through

to learn,

you know,

the Cummins things.

And then you're talking to

people at Techline at Cummins

and it's brand new to them

because this engine

was never in this platform before.

Like,

you're familiar,

you know,

you just have to go back

to your basics, right?

You got to go back.

Yeah.

You got to be patient

and go back to your basics

and then just,

you can reverse engineer it.

You can figure it out.

That's right.

Yeah.

But again,

trucks are all,

they're Lego pieces.

They're all a bunch of parts

put together

and make,

put into a frame of whatever.

So once you get to know

all the different platforms

that are put together,

you can figure it out

pretty quickly.

Yeah, 100%.

100%.

What makes you really want to teach?

I like teaching.

Yeah.

I like,

yeah, I like,

I think we need,

honestly, this is what got me

interested in you

because you really push out

the industry

and what it's like

and the shortage

and the fact that people

don't seem to want to teach anymore

and don't want to show

to the next generation.

Yeah.

I've always liked to teach

as long as you're willing to learn.

As I have a son,

he's an apprentice 310S right now.

Okay.

Good.

Yeah.

So he's actually stuck in the flat rate thing,

which I know not much about.

So I actually,

every time you have a topic

on flat rate,

I forward him your show

and said,

listen to this,

he knows,

because it's a different world,

but yeah,

but I like to teach,

I like to show him the basics,

you know,

like just the,

and he wants to get into diet too.

So he worked at a Mercedes

dealership for a while

and he really liked it

to diagnosing in that

getting deep into the,

so.

Yeah.

Just going to ask you,

what brand was he,

was he pursuing?

You know,

because like for people listening,

when you say,

you know,

apprentice in flat rate

up here in Canada,

you can almost always assume

that's a dealership

because a lot of people

don't put flat rate

inter independence

up here in Canada

that has been my experience

and not in least

until their license,

right?

So if he's,

if he's going after Mercedes,

man, he's,

he's,

he's in for some challenges.

He's,

he'd become a very good tech

because,

you know,

this was a learn

and I'm sure you've been able to

really get his fundamentals

down for him,

right?

Because he's,

you know,

but yeah,

I,

those cars,

man,

it's,

it's not the car for me,

it's the customer.

It really is.

Like I got it,

I almost have to change my head

space when I'm working on it

to think about like,

you know,

what they,

the level of what they expect

is what I'm trying to say.

Not that they're,

they're crazy in what they expect,

but it's like,

it is a very hard level to,

to talk,

to hit every day.

Like even I,

my friend was a service manager,

the

Jag Land Rover,

you know,

dealership in Ottawa for

quite a while,

and it burned him out.

It burned him out.

Oh really?

Yeah.

Because he had worked with me

in Orleans.

The Chrysler type,

phenomenal technician

can fix anything.

You know,

did a standard O.C. Transpo,

spin service manager,

Ben Technation,

gone back,

worked at a little,

essentially a restoration shop,

like he can do it all.

And he still said that,

like the demand that those

customers have for that vehicle,

the way they want it,

burned him out.

Burned him out.

I can imagine.

Because it's,

it's,

you know,

the,

it's,

they,

it's a lot of money,

but they know it's a lot of

money and for that money,

they expect like,

and it's nothing,

it's just,

the car intermittently

has a problem.

Nobody at Mercedes knows the

solution yet.

Nobody knows,

like,

what are you supposed to do,

chair of the car,

all apart looking for it?

Well, that's what the customer

expects you to do.

Yeah.

That's not feasible.

It's not realistic.

And I,

it's frustrating,

but I mean,

I'm a big believer that

eventually,

you know,

when it's one of those things,

a lot of the time,

it does get figured out what it

is.

And,

and O.E. will tell you,

you've seen it.

It's not just a TSP.

There's,

there's so many levels now

to the information that we can

get.

That it's not,

it's tech tips and,

and

fast response transmittals and

stuff like this.

And it's like,

little things that they're always

telling you,

hey,

did you have one that do this?

Yeah.

Go look here.

Because we had a case study

somewhere,

other side of the world.

Same thing happened,

same code,

same,

same connector,

blah,

blah, blah.

That's not what you're

always going to find in TSP's.

That's like,

inside level,

you know,

knowledge.

That gets taught to you

eventually or,

or passed down to you

if you stick around with long

enough with it.

Yeah.

And that's what a lot of

these people is just like,

they're frustrated,

but there's,

there's a process that it takes

to find them out.

And now,

man,

I'm old enough to remember

like when you had the phone

Chrysler tech line,

you were talking to a person.

Now,

it's your,

it's an email chain

back and forth,

back and forth.

And you know how that can go

like that's me.

Like I,

I joke,

I could still,

I memorized the phone number

from Chrysler.

Not that I told it a lot,

but it was,

it would hang out

about everybody's toolbox.

There was a sticker

that had the number.

Well,

you look at it a million times

it's in grains in your brain.

Yeah.

But like,

I can't even,

when I was at Nissan,

it was an email thread,

and it would take forever.

Sometimes they'd respond back

to you in 30 minutes,

sometimes be the next day.

And the car.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh my God.

That would be annoying.

Imagine sitting on the side

of the road

and waiting for somebody

to email you back.

I'm sorry.

I'm gonna wait for an email

for you.

The frustrating part is

because the car's under warranty.

It's an intermittent,

you know, you're asking,

you're getting,

it's almost like you're not even

asking,

you're getting permission

to where to go next.

Because like,

you know,

it's the kind of thing like,

you're trying to chase,

chase down this intermittent.

Where do you want me to go?

Because if I go in the wrong

dress

and you're not paying

the dealership for my time,

which means I'm not gonna

date,

which means I'm not gonna do it.

You know,

it's,

yeah,

it's,

I sound like,

you know,

I'm constantly waving a flag

to a ballish flat rate,

but I'm not.

But I just like,

I think that it has to,

people have to appreciate more

what the text,

the obstacles that's in place

for them when they're paid

that way.

And then adjust accordingly.

I think that's what it is.

Do you think in your opinion

that it was something that was

set up for back more,

like in the 80s and 90s,

where everything was more

uniform and in easily?

Oh, I,

or is it like,

because it's,

I mean the cars are,

the evolution of the cars is just

astronomical compared to you.

I think it was probably

optimized for the 60s.

You know what I mean?

When it was

Not far back.

Okay.

Oh,

shit.

Yeah.

When they had maybe like,

you had an inline six

and you had a small block V8

and you had a big block V8

and you put them in the whole

platform,

you know,

it either had a two-barrel

carburetor that was this

part number or four-barrel

carburetor.

Yeah.

And,

and a distributor that was

shared to each

and you just fixed the car

all day long.

Like you,

you know,

and people go,

well,

how did you diagnose the car?

Well,

there was 10,

Eric,

Ivan from Pine Hollow today is

working on a

an 89 Dodge 250,

D250.

And you get some of the dash

because it's got it so

it gets called out for,

it won't start.

And it's a wiring from the

ASD relay.

So you still use an ASD relay,

but essentially all it did

was turn a coil on because

it's,

you know,

it's probably injected

with a car,

with a distributor.

Yeah.

And so he,

he diagnosis that

in half an hour and then

it's like,

you know,

parasitic drain

because there's an add-on,

it's a plow truck

in,

in upstate Pennsylvania.

So it's

sort of Canada.

There's an add-on that's

backfeeding,

keeping the fuse

key switch alive.

So there's a parasitic drain.

Like it was,

and he's joking,

but he's literally like,

there's 10,

there's 10 fuses in a fuse box.

Like back then,

when flat rate would work

is because like

if you were having to

solve an electrical problem,

I say it all the time.

It was a one hour,

two hour ordeal

tops.

Yeah.

Run the wire from

front to back and

an overlay

in no time.

You know,

eliminate the short

or eliminate whatever.

Now,

you could be an hour

just to update software

before you can figure out

the next step of,

you know,

my diagnostic process,

right?

It's because like

a lot of us,

when you're in the dealer

thing,

the first step

to tell you

is update the software.

You know,

there's a flash

through the flash

then go back and

road test the car again.

Did it fix it?

No.

Okay.

Cool.

We don't even,

so flat rate doesn't work for that

because,

you know,

if it didn't fix it,

they don't want to pay you for that.

Well, that's BS

because that's literally their process.

And it just goes

and goes and goes and goes.

So I think

flat rate worked really well

when cars

didn't have

electronic parking brakes,

didn't have,

you know,

all this stuff

that takes longer to use.

I think it can still be done

in the sense that like,

you're going to do a transmission

overhaul.

Cool.

No problem.

You know,

you got a heavy line guy.

He gets them in and out.

He beats the time.

But when it comes down to the

determining what

the car is going to need

and if it's a diagnostic kind of

heavy

repair,

I don't think flat rate has any place in it.

I just think it's always

then a compromise on the technician.

And it's a compromise for the customer.

They do not get as good a repair.

100%.

If you're looking,

I know even as me,

I'm always looking,

even when I was doing Diage,

I was always looking at like,

what else can I sell

on this car?

Like we were doing

very good inspections

before DVI was a big thing

because you're looking for the maintenance

that has to get done

because I'm trying to offset

the time that I lost on my Diage.

I'm hoping I get the break job.

I'm hoping I get the flushes.

When we,

when we pay our people that way

and everybody thinks it's good

because it's,

you got hustle.

We're,

if it's there for just the problem

that the customer wanted fixed,

we're going to compromise that

because we're trying to find the other work

that needs to get done.

And that's where I think this industry

has kind of got to

not abolish it,

but like stop for a minute,

really look at what's happening

and the challenges

and then

think about it,

revamp it.

I think it can work.

It still can,

but it's going to cost a lot of people

a lot more money,

a lot more.

You know,

door rates are almost 200 bucks an hour.

In Ottawa,

there's lots of $200 an hour

to door rates.

Lots of them.

My area,

there's lots of $150 an hour

door rates.

I can remember coming into Ottawa

when I first moved there,

110 was a high door rate.

You know what I mean?

Like,

so when we think about that now

and it's like,

so if you move away from flat rate

and go to everybody on an hour

or an hour earlier salary,

your door rates are going to be 300 bucks

to make it work.

Lots of people right now in Canada

can't afford a $300 an hour door rate.

I guarantee they can't.

So it's something's going to give way

that when it's going to be the,

the jobs are not going to get done

correctly.

And we're already seeing it now.

Well, I see it in my industry anyway.

Is it so?

Yeah, yeah.

And,

you know,

not to get political,

but I mean, we have,

I've had several people reach out

to me or not to you and about

a lot of the young people

coming into the trade in Canada

are from other countries.

They're international students

that are coming in and that kind of stuff.

And they have,

they have the work attitude,

but they're so like,

English is not their first language.

Yeah, that's a barrier.

It's not their first language.

Like the way they fix trucks

in foreign countries

is very different

than how the trucks have to be fixed

in Canada.

Like there is a huge

and I find that,

like when we are,

I think people in the apprenticeships

in Canada think

that the immigration thing

is going to fix the problem.

And it won't,

not for a while yet.

You know,

there's too much language barrier.

There's too much culture barrier.

Like it's,

it's a very different thing.

Well, if you can't read a service,

a service information correctly

and follow the steps and procedures,

you know, like,

and it's,

it's a detriment

also to the apprentice, right?

Because he's,

he's also not learning correctly.

Like it's,

yeah, it's a,

it's a lose-lose on that one.

Yeah.

I was always amazed

Matthew about like

so many technicians

that I worked with,

French was their first language.

Right.

Being that they,

a lot of them came from,

like I worked with guys

that would drive over from Gatineau

to work in Orleans.

I worked with guys that would drive over from Gatineau

to work in downtown Ottawa.

Oh yeah.

And it amazed me that like,

you knew their English wasn't very great,

but they could read it well enough

to get through the service.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm like,

if I ever went to Colbeck

or, you know,

the,

the cruiser dealers over in Hall

and tried,

I'd be screwed.

I couldn't have the same manual in French.

I'd have been fucked.

It's happened to me

or I've had to order parts.

I'm Francophone

and I'll order parts in Quebec

and I'm like,

what is this part in French?

French again.

And it's like,

how is that?

Because I can remember sometimes

I joke all the time,

but in the,

in Orleans,

literally it was like one side of the shop

is was France.

Yeah.

It was English, right?

And,

and everybody got along,

but it was very different.

Like if you walked across the shop

Hey, what are you doing here?

You know,

it was that way.

Like it was,

it was all fun and games,

but like,

you know,

it's all,

is it still probably more animated

on the French side too?

I would assume me.

Oh yeah.

Like I had God bless him.

I had a guy,

I used to just joke with him all the time

and it just used to drive him nuts.

But I mean,

Gilo Tess was his name

and he's our transmission guy

and he's 60.

God, what did they say?

He's 68 and he's still working at

Orleans Dodge.

And I just saw a picture from the other day.

He looks good for 68.

He had a heart attack last year.

You know,

he missed a few months.

Like he was off recovery

but he came back.

Like he just,

he loves the job

and he's not doing so much heavy

transmission now.

He's doing a lot more dyke.

But I used to just,

I used to joke with him

because we're always again,

pushing to make the most hours.

And my baby was across from him

and so every time I would get a

fuel system cleaning service

and I would dump the can in the

machine,

I would throw the can across the

shop at his bank.

So he knew I was doing another one.

When we went away on holidays,

I kept all the cans and I put them

on his bench and on top of his

toolbox.

So when he come back after a week,

like he had to open the lid and you

know,

yeah,

man I should say,

and it was just like,

yeah, I miss those guys.

It was good times.

So it,

it,

we all got along.

Like even for all the differences,

you know,

and it's a very divided country

right now.

We all got along.

And I think that was just part

of it was like,

you had to rely on your friends.

You had to rely on your

co-workers, you know,

like you had to.

I think that's something that needs

to be taught a lot more too.

Hey,

how to get along with people.

Yes.

You know,

and I think the flat rate thing

is,

is makes that difficult,

you know,

to,

to sometimes learn how to really

make the team strong.

If you don't want to.

Yeah.

Well, yeah,

because there's no incentive for

people to help each other.

They're too focused on getting

their hours and their,

their jobs done.

Yeah.

Like, and,

you know,

they talk all the time,

one bad apple, right?

Ruins the whole thing,

but it really does.

And, you know,

it's,

it's not a situation.

A lot of that stuff

sometimes sorts itself out,

but I'm also seeing like shops

where the bad apple

becomes very protected

because they look at what

the bad apple produces

and they go,

I can't see the shop

operating without that.

And then then you're in a

very problematic

because,

you know,

if they see that,

that becomes a norm.

How he or she acts

as a technician.

Yeah.

That becomes the allowed

level.

Yeah.

And it's not always good.

It's not always good.

So, yeah.

I have seen that.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

What,

what's the young people

that you have coming in,

what do you see the weaknesses

like when you see other

technicians,

where do you see their

weaknesses?

Just learning,

just, just take the time

to read and learn.

There's a lot of problems

that I've noticed that I've,

that I've like

taken over to solve

that was like

an example.

I got one recently.

I had a truck towed out of,

of a dealer

that came to my shop

because they,

they, they claim they couldn't

figure it out.

I don't know what the story

was, but long story short,

all it needed,

all it needed was to do a,

forced regen

to complete the repair.

I'm like,

well, it's,

it's right there

in the service information.

It's the last line.

Like if they would have read

that last line,

they would have seen,

oh, then do a forced regen.

And then it brings everything

inactive.

And then you can clear the code,

road test,

to make sure it's good.

And road test guys,

come on guys, road test.

Like you guys have to road test.

That's something that I,

like,

I don't know why,

I guess it's because

of this flat rate thing.

They don't want a road test

and to confirm the repair,

but you have to make sure

that your repair is,

is, is correct.

And that you can,

you know,

but yeah, and

yeah,

that's just one of the,

just pay attention

and,

and they come in

and I find they,

that I know it all attitude,

but they don't want to learn.

Yeah.

Like, you know,

and it's,

I know the,

the road testing is very,

like I didn't really,

from when I left the dealership

to start to go into the

independent side,

I learned that it was much

more important

to do a better road test

after the fact that I had been.

Like it wasn't like I had

cars coming back because of it,

but I mean like,

when you actually look at

how you're supposed to set

in the set of breaks,

bed them in,

that's a process in itself.

That's just no,

no dealership guy is doing it

at all.

They're not.

And so

do you have to make,

you know,

like,

I forget what they used to

want us to do

was like 30 stops

at 30 miles an hour

with like,

you know,

five seconds in between

stops.

So when you do the math

and that does,

you're out there for an hour.

Yeah.

It's necessary to do that.

But you can't just drive it

out of your bay

and park it in the parking lot

and send it home to the customer

without ever driving it

to bed them in.

You know,

I'm not talking like,

if you have a clip rattling

or scraping

or loose bolts

it's going to come up.

I'm talking about like,

you haven't even got those

breaks hot

and glazed in yet

and you're expecting a customer

to do that.

I know I remember

I had lots of customers

come in,

not my customers,

but other,

and it was like,

oh,

when I first drove it home,

the brakes felt terrible

for the first,

yeah,

they were brand new,

shiny,

you know,

fingerprints all over

it takes a while to get them off.

I found that I learned

to do a better

quality check

and road test

because no company

is going to send out a driver.

Like this is the other thing

that in Matthew's line of work,

they're not going to send

a driver over

to go and drive this truck

because like they're,

you're telling them it's finished.

He comes,

the driver comes

and picks it up.

He leaves,

puts a load on it.

He gets out

in an hour out of town.

Truck's broken again.

Doing the exact same thing,

derated or whatever.

Guess what?

If you'd have been done

doing your road test,

you could have saved

that phone call

and that customers,

because now we're into

a lot of time

because we've paid that driver

for a shift

and he spent half the shift

sitting in the truck

waiting to get towed back.

You know,

it's

and the product didn't get

delivered and it's

it becomes a whole thing.

That's the other thing.

Yeah, we didn't even

think about that.

You got sometimes

perishable load on.

That's right.

It's like,

how do we get that off?

And somewhere like,

we're talking thousands of

dollars,

like comebacks

in Matthew's side of the game

are not hundreds of dollars.

There's thousands of dollars

that people are like losing.

It's a big deal.

I found with the young people

like that I've worked for now,

it's not that they don't

seem like they don't want to learn.

I just find that it's like

it can go.

You can overwhelm them

really fast.

Yes.

The thing that they have to know.

It's crazy.

Like it was a lot

when I was coming up

and it's now

it's even more.

But they need to

I think they need to do it

in small increments

instead of like looking at the

learn one thing,

one task.

If you want to do

dyag, learn dyag.

And you mentioned

something in your podcast

once where

it becomes an intuition

as text.

Like you just know,

you have a feeling

you'll get those intuitions

up.

And then once you get good

at that then you,

but I think it's they want to

they want to do everything.

They want to learn everything

and it takes time.

That's another thing

too.

You won't become

an ATAC in

five, six years.

It could take a longer

than that.

Depending on what you do.

I'm sure you and I

have our 10,000 hours

in no time.

A lot.

I had double the hours

I needed by the time

I wrote the test.

Yeah, same here.

First I sat back

and I'm like,

I don't know if I'm going

to pass that, man.

Like I feel like I need

a little more of this

and I need a little

more of that.

It all it did at the end

was cost me money

because like in the

dealership world,

license texts were at this

third year or final year

were at that till you wrote

the you didn't level up

and pay until you wrote

the damn test.

Yeah, I was like that's

so stupid because

at the end of the day

in the dealership world

that I see yours is

hanging on the back wall.

Your your license

is hanging on the

in your on your wall.

I haven't done my tattoo

on my arm.

Yeah, there you go.

All you need for

in a dealership

is to be able to sign

the safety on the car.

There's only one guy

in a lot of dealerships

doing you's cars.

He's the only one signing

the safety.

So it didn't

it didn't mean a

fucking thing.

Right.

I was fixing guys

that had

20 years longer

on the product than me.

I was doing their comebacks.

I was doing their

diag for them

because I couldn't get to

I didn't need that

CFQ for that.

Yeah, I couldn't get paid

what he was going to do.

I got it.

You know,

that's the

that's the rub

I have with this

and then

you know,

everybody

my good friends

talk all the time

in the group.

You've probably seen this too.

A lot of guys right now

there's there's a mystique

about doing drivability.

I want to be

a drivability tech.

Okay.

And a lot of what I find

is Matthew is like

some can

I believe everybody

can learn to do it.

But what the really

high functioning people

that I know that do it

like they're just

there's something about

them that makes them

better at it.

Yes.

Yeah.

An intuition or something

like that.

Yeah.

Too many times

I think in the industry

we're steering these people

into roles

that they're not necessarily

because they have to learn it.

You know what I mean?

It's like they're forced to

learn it.

Yeah.

I don't necessarily believe

that's right from the

from the apprenticeship line.

I think we have to take the

trade and break it down

a little more

where it's like

do you ever want to work

on air condition?

Nope.

Okay.

Then I'm not going to make you

sit through months and months

and months and months and months

at the classroom level.

Yep.

Yeah.

Of learning and air conditioning.

It can be a separate

a supplement maybe

you go back and take it.

But here's what I want you to

know.

I want you to really learn

you know the basics

of fundamentals electrical

and so that you can go out

because everything is going to

operate on electricity pretty

soon.

You know Edison's building

trucks that are

you know hybrids like

that's going to be the thing.

How many trucks do you go out

and look in the AC

still doesn't work?

You know they don't care.

Yeah.

Right.

So all that time that maybe

that that technician spent

learning how to do air conditioning

and then he gets himself

into or she into a business where

you know the priority is

making the truck work

not have cold air.

Yeah.

All of that time spent

or that money spent is

and they're struggling somewhere

else.

Yeah.

To that that's what I'm

trying to say.

So when we when we keep pushing

all these texts to be like

I wrote them to be all

diagnostic texts.

Yeah.

You're pushing a lot of them

out of the industry

because like they get to it

and they're they're handed a

ticket and they have no process

yet on how to even approach this.

Yeah.

The process is the thing.

Yeah.

And then the senior technician

maybe is not very helpful.

Doesn't want to teach them

or you know like can

oh go over here

and it's always this

connector underneath this seat.

They didn't there was no process

taught there.

You just gave them the answer.

So that's that's funny you say

that because I get that a lot.

I get phone calls from people

looking for advice you know

and other texts and

which I love doing by the way

but they're like

they're looking for the answer.

They're looking for me to tell

them go look at that connector

and it's probably

and so my approach

what I'm trying to do is like

well let's let's walk it back

and just try and come up

to how we could figure this

out you know like

using the process so that

I can get him to think

or her to think about

what where we're going

with this you know

instead of just giving them

the answer but I find

a lot of people now

just want the answer

they'll go on you

because I'm sure you hear it too.

A lot of people go on YouTube

and yeah but there's a lot of

misleading information on YouTube

it could be like

you know it's

so you gotta

you gotta kind of have

figure it out

you know have a knack for it

and not only that like

if I was ever stuck

where it was like

I was asking somebody for

like a tip or a bullet

it was because I didn't have

access to the service information

especially the truck side

because like

I don't know how much you

subscribe to so many different

information systems

for the different

you know Cummins

Navistar

Yeah

Volvo

you know

Wobco

for the

for the brake systems

all that kind of stuff

like

people that aren't familiar

with the trucking industry

like you're not so much

going in and going

punching a van in

and going okay

this is everything

now that truck was built

you're punching a van in

and you're getting a very basic

of this is the basic

that was in the truck

all these other systems

have been added on

and you don't have to know

the the

the suffixes of those systems

that's right

and then interrogating

that system

independently of the

truck

and then trying to figure out

how it's talking to the truck

like it

so when people in the

in the trucking side are going

I have this truck

and I have no idea where to go

it's because they don't have

access maybe to

Wobco

they have access to Cummins

they don't have access

to the brake side of the truck

that's right

yeah right

so they're getting these codes

but it was like

what does it mean

the regen stuff was terrible

we had an old

I'm trying to think of

what the scan tool was

it was a laptop base

like a J something

J pro or gel test

J pro

and it was so out of

date

and like that

you didn't get half the codes

that were in the truck

you couldn't force it to do anything

you had no bilateral controls

and it's like

why are we looking at a regen

problem on a truck when

but it was again

the personal employer

that I worked for

couldn't see the value in

in keeping subscriptions

up to date

paying for them

a new scan

not because

so why are we just telling this

customer like

just tell them what we are

we're a front end shop

we're not going to look at your

you know

yes

yeah

regen problem

but they wouldn't do that

yeah because

when any after treatment issue

is expensive

like there's no cheap

unless it's a wiring

or a leaking

death line

or something simple

which is

never really is

any call you make

you got to be pretty sure of

your shot

because it's

everything's expensive

like if you know

if you got a call

a one box on the DD15

you're looking at $20,000

up here you know

like it's

you better be sure of

that of your

diag in that case

you know like

so

I only use dealer level stuff

because I

this the aftermarket stuff

terrible

while in the trucks

because of because of like

what you said

right like

it seems like

because there's Cummins

there's Wabco

there's Eaton

there's like

and everything

everything talks to each other

on the can bus system

right so

and then you

got to you got to learn

how to

to navigate through

because

you know when you see a

can bus

issue

it could be

just a

a power issue

of one of the modules

not talking

and everything talks

through the can bus

like every knock

sensor on

on the natural treatment

talks to can bus

well

it could just be

a broken wire

a rubbed wire somewhere

you know what I mean

like

but

yeah

I've been had like

so I run

I have a snap

on the edge

and the

in the truck

as

because it's just

the

their hardware

is pretty

pretty solid

like they

they can live

through the cold

but

I will pull codes

up on

on

let's say the snap on

platform

and then

plug it into insight

and oh look at this

there's four more codes

that this

this

snap on

didn't show me

right

so

and that's the huge

things because it's

normally

it's those four codes

which are the

I don't want to say

the smoking gun

but those four codes

that you couldn't get

from this

from the J pro

like I remember

yeah

it'll go next door

to the

dealer over there

that had

you know

come Zoe

and it's

they spit back

three more codes to you

and you're like

that right there

that's exactly what I

needed to know

that makes sense

yeah

all of a sudden

it's like

yeah okay

I need a dozer

no big deal

right like

that's right

but it's

or it's a

heat thermostat

rationale

you're getting that

from the common side

that you think

well there's why

I won't

regen

to

friggin thing

is too cold

to like

that

all that

is is not always

accurate

and the refresh rate

on the J pro

was so slow

that you knew

like you were at

190

Fahrenheit

and yet it was still

telling you at 170

it was so slowly

creep up

it was very

yeah

I hated it

I hated anything

like that

that it was just like

nope

and they're like

I thought you could do

dyke

yeah I can

see that car

over there

no problem

see this truck

with this

archaic

laptop

get it

the hell away from me

like

you go

take it to the dealer

you tell them

diagnose it

I'll come back

for the pardon

no big deal

I've done my visual

I don't know

have a nice day

like that

wasn't me a case

of looking for a bullet

it's just

I'm not spending

hours and hours

and hours

on some

ego trip

because somebody won't pay

for software

I just won't do it

yeah

you know

yeah

it doesn't

and at the end of the day

it doesn't make me look good

and it doesn't make my

business look good

my company

that I work for

for my business

I mean that

well you're

you know

you work for me

to do what I'm told

yeah

you know

I'm not

I'm not here to make myself

look worse

because you can't

accept what I'm telling you

we're not

yeah

to do this

you know

I can remember

I had a technician

I worked with

and it was like

they were sending them on

Ford power stroke

six liter class

he didn't even want to go

did not want to go to the class

and I'm like

I put my hand up

I'm like

can I go to that class

now you haven't been here

long enough

wait a minute

like I've worked on

way more Ford trucks

Ford trucks than he has

let alone 60

kind of have an idea

what's going on

but while he's our senior

tacking it

let me

he doesn't even want to go

yeah I send him

if he doesn't want to go

yeah

because that was the

that was the politics

that went on at that

particular

you know employer

which is fine

he got nothing out of the class

he would still call me

if he's stuck on a six liter

and I'm like

I'm not a six liter expert

but he knows that

I know a lot of people that are

yeah

so

like

and I'm just

it's

it's those kind of things

at the end of the day

that in this industry

is where sometimes

I think we drop the ball

it's again

it's the young people

and then when we

we're not

we're not honest

enough with ourselves

on where our strengths are

as a business

or as a technician

like

is there anything that you won't touch

tires

I don't do tires

yeah

there's tire companies for that

I'm

I don't even do my own anymore

but

but uh

no

uh

like as far as like

platforms mean

like as far as

not really

I like a challenge

I'm that kind of guy

I mean

if I can

if I can't get any information

at all

and I'll advise like

the client

well

I'm gonna have to reverse engineer

some of this

or whatever

you know

like

but as far as like

I've taken on jobs

like

knowing I'm

I might lose money

just because I want the

the experience sometimes

or the

yeah

like I've done some

pretty

pretty wild stuff

over the years

I think that's what we

we forget sometimes

when they

we say the young people

don't want to work

or they don't want to try

when we put

again going back

to that money thing

well

how much financially

should they donate

for the learning

you know

and it's

that's when incentivized

pay comes into it again

right

if you're flat rate

like I always joked

like if you sold an hour

die

you get an hour die

egg

you know

if I didn't know

at the end of the hour

I could sleep

that night

not knowing

like it didn't

bother me

you know

um

now if I sold something

and it was wrong

yeah

I'm fixing the car

100%

no question about it right

like I have to make it right

but you know

customers that didn't want to pay

for die egg

or advisors that didn't want to

pay for me for die egg

no problem

I'll put the car back outside

I don't need to know

you know

it's just another cars

there's other work

when we get into the

incentivized side

I think that's what happens

as they say too much

it's like the young people

don't want to learn

but when we cap it at like

okay you're young

but you're only going to get

an hour to figure this out

even if it's an intermittent

even if it's especially in the

dealers

your son's going to run into this

well

this is why sometimes we take

guesses

we take chances

you know

yeah

we try known good parts

because like

it's faster

you know

and then again

my big thing too

is like failure analysis

I want to know what failed

yeah

but exactly just

my mom has a 16 patriot

and the the throttle

the throttle valve

like that famous issue

but I want to know

what caused that failure

so I opened up the

the board and it's full of engine oil

in there

so I guess it's getting sucked in

through that shaft seal

so now okay

I can sleep tonight

because I know

I know I fixed it

because I diagated correctly

but also

okay now I know why

you know

like it just

air valves

you know

like pulling air valve apart

like what

why did it fail

you know

or why is it

I'm I'm

I'm big into that

and that's something

I noticed

with the younger generation

is like whatever

just toss it in

well you're not

you're not at all curious

like

you know like

but I get in the incentivized pay

I can see that being a

really big problem

because it's on to the next

on to the next

it's all about production

right

yeah

and you make a good point

because the failure analysis

is exactly how

like it's the person

that actually did

the failure analysis

to determine

what maybe was the

improved part

or the improved service

procedure

or something to avoid

that happening again

yeah

I can think of like

what can I think of

I can think of like

PCV lines

and evap lines

that were changed

and and updated

so that

condensation didn't

collect in certain spots

and got the vent to freeze

stuff like that

right

that's all for

exactly what you said

from failure analysis

if you just hang the

keep hanging the vent valve

on and don't even think

about what it is

why it fails

you're never going to

become better

but like

it's only

it's been my experience

the only task

maybe one tech

in a lot of shops

with the time

to do the failure analysis

or when we have

a customer come back

that's when we actually might

do

you know

failure analysis

this thing

went through a transmission

inside of a year

why did that training fail

like you know

he does good rebuilds

he doesn't ever come back

oh look

the cooler lines

are plugged up

or like you know

the fan doesn't come on

so that's running too hot

you know that's why

stuff like that

that's not part of the

failure analysis

like it should be

when we do our thorough

inspections

like nobody

I ever saw do a

transmission overhaul

ever checked to see

if the lines were plugged

before they hung the

tranny in front of it

like it wasn't part of it

you know

yeah

do other guys

and it's like

I sell the lines

with every transmission

I do

yep

you know

I either replace them

or I flush them

and I've had zero luck

with flushing

so I replace them

every time

well then we get into that

why do they cost more

somebody has done

some failure analysis

at some point

in their career

and figured out that like

the right correct

proper repair

involves more steps

and that's where we get

into the whole

onion of

why does it cost

so much more money

you know

yeah

because somebody's

on failure analysis

it's

I love

I love my time

with the truck thing

because

in my career

because it taught me

about that kind of stuff

but it also like

you know

when you come

into the automotive side

there isn't the time for it

they don't want you

to spend the time

no I've noticed

that it's

it's two different worlds

I find it so

yeah

even like modules

you see that

where it's like

you put a module in

and the module fails again

put a module in

module fails again

what's going on

oh the alternator's charging

too high

or it has a coil

that's going down

and smoking a driver out of it

nobody caught that

you know

I've been bit

by that way

early in my career too

like it

you know

so many things

look at the grounds

on the car

sometimes we're fixing

stuff that's so

rusted you know

or you know

there's like

yeah

like

gee

what do I do here

like

sell them a new car

no

fix what's there

like it

yeah

was a compromise

what

that's another thing

with your trucks too

like you can sell them

in another car

but

a $330,000 tri axle

is a little bit hard

of a sell

you know

like so

a $60,000 engine

doesn't seem like

such a big

lump

when it's a $330,000

truck

yeah

you know what I mean

like and

we're

people that are

listening to the

automotive side

they're like

what

like we just got

talking in a group chat

in a couple years

up here

especially in

in Canada already

most like

if you want to buy

you know

an F-250

with a power stroke

it's a $100,000 truck

you know what I mean

oh yeah

a Cummins big horn

it's a $100,000 truck

like

you're buying

a $100,000

what people used to pay

for homes now

they're paying for

trucks

the trucks

yeah

like

I can't charge $200

for an oil change

on that truck

or I can't charge

$3,000 for a break job

you most certainly can

it's a $100,000 truck

you mean I can't

charge $4,000 to put

brakes on it

of course I can

yeah

now I'm not talking like

$4,000 and using

the cheapest stuff

that's not what I'm

trying to say

for the people

listening

they're gonna call

me everything under the sun

I'm talking about

using like

old parts

old procedure

all the time

to do it properly

complete calipers

flush the fluid

all it comes

if you think

on a $1,000 truck

$100,000 truck

you can't get $4,000

you're nuts

you're thinking

you're thinking too small

is what I'm trying to say

it's

my friend

Cecil Bollard

says it's stinking thinking

stop thinking like that

yeah

you know

just do the math

4%

like

it's easy

easy

that's true

yeah

don't look at that

because they have

in their mind still

Midas did breaks

for $150

in you know

1983

yeah

well

yeah

you know

it's a lot different now

and in my

in my field

everything

takes an hour

because they're

like they

think that

anything takes an hour

all you can get that done

in an hour

I'm like

no

this is a three hour job

you know

it's just

and it's all because

they don't want to have to

you know

reconfigure the routes

and then

I get it

like they're pressed like

okay

I'm like

instead of spending time

pushing me

to get the job done quicker

how about you

I will fix your truck

it's going to get done correctly

in

in about two to three hours

and you know

while you

reconfigure runs

to

to work around

it's like

I didn't break your truck

it broke itself

so

you know what I mean

like it's

it's another problem

when it's been giving you

warnings

and you keep using it

you know

the

truck driver's been

hitting regen

you know

the whole time

yes

the

or

the

the latest one I've been

getting a lot

is the

the

regen inhibit

yes

it can stop

it stops it

and they leave them

while we

and their excuses

well I

I gotta get the truck unloaded

I don't have time to wait for a

regen

well now you're stuck on the side

of the road

because the truck's completely

derated now

you and I are both sitting here

for an hour

well this thing

that's the first regen

so how did you save time

exactly

you know

yeah

you didn't

and

so where does that come from

some a lot Matthew

where it's like

our

is it the way they're paying

the drivers

yeah

see

big problem

it's pretty

a lot I've

a lot of them I think are paid

for the run

yeah

so they want to get back home

as soon as they can

I think that's pretty much

a lot of it

because there's no excuse for it

because if they be paid for the

hour

they

oh that too

and the ELD's changed

the game a lot

because now they're all

electronically logged

so they

they're

they're very strict on

and some

some companies

as soon as they hit their

their hours

that's it

the truck stops

like it will live

if it's you're stuck on the

401

that's where you're pulling

over

then they have to send

somebody

another driver

that's got fresh hours

to bring the truck back

to the yard

or whatever

right so

so they get

they're pushed

and pushed

right so

yeah

and

we know the old school guys

used to just sleep

in the truck then

and while they waited

for the truck to be built

or fixed

I worked on so many trucks

where the driver

was asleep in the cab

you know

while I worked on it

and everybody's like

well how can you sleep

man when they retired

they could sleep

oh then no sleep

yeah

and they would go to sleep

now it doesn't matter

like he could catch three hours

of sleep

while he's waiting for you

to show up on a service call

that the ALD doesn't allow that

he has to be pulled

from the truck and go

so there's

pluses and minuses to it both

I

the thing with the trucking side

is like

there's always so

if especially if it's a good driver

there's warning signs

coming up

that this thing needs work

right

oh yeah

you know

and and

it's not like cars

that we see driving around

that you hear the brakes

and they're driving around

and they hear them too

but they're like

well you know

next week I get paid

and that's when I'm fixing my brakes

the truck thing is like

there's been warning lights

coming on

and they know

that it's got to come in

and

you know it was supposed to have a

valve adjustment

20,000 kilometers ago

and that wasn't done

and and all this kind of stuff

and it's

10,000 overdue for its service

I'm trying to get it in all

at once

you know that they keep using

that truck

until it will not work

and then they take

all that stuff done at once

and then they complain

about how long it's taken

and what it costs

dude you knew it was going to

break down

it was telling you

it's giving all the

that's what I

I respect a lot more

of the managers

that I had in the truck stations

because they were just very

point blank

you knew it was going to happen

your driver was telling you about

we would see the

the daily inspections

on some of the fleets that we had

and it was written up

you know

derated three times today

they just put it in service

tomorrow like

no one's going to go

I can't believe it's broken

it's in his log book saying

it isn't right

we're talking again

we're talking about businesses

where it's

it's all part of their operating

budget and

you know

people forget sometimes the fleets

like

the last fleet run that I had

if we pulled a bus on them

or it didn't get done in time

it wasn't a big deal

you had another bus in the yard

yeah we don't have spares anymore

that's something you don't see anymore

yeah

yeah I agree

when I first started in this

lot of the companies I worked for

usually that

the way it worked is the older you and it got

got to be the spare

they bought a new truck

and so if I couldn't get it fixed

in a timely manner

they'd just jump in this pair

but now

if it's got wheels

it's got a turn

that's the way they see it now

they just keep them running

right and it just doesn't stop

how much of your day to day

you're dealing with like fleet managers

fleet managers

yes

so you're not necessarily dealing with

like the owner operator

or the

you know

the person that necessarily even

owns the company

you're just dealing with this fleet manager

who is like essentially just another

accountant in the building

and is like

maybe never worked on a truck

but has to know

it's a 50-50 split

I'd say

you know

the way usually it works

is like the manager

or foreman

depending on what kind of business it is

they'll call me

you know

and then

if it's a big call

like if it's something that I have

like I called like that's

a higher ticket item

then I'll call the owner directly and say

hey like

are we doing this are we not

you know like

because

yeah for the most part

yeah I'd say about 50-50 or so

you know

I'm gonna ask you because it was

it was a pretty good topic that

in Tuesday's episode of Marshall Sheldon

and Marshall's a heavy equipment tech

as well

what do you look for when you're

looking at younger hires

what do you kind of

where do you find them

what do you want to see them come

from like

does it matter

all scopes or

I want to see

like that you're into it

and that you're really like

passionate about what you want to do

you know

do you work on your own stuff

or do you do side jobs

do you do like

you

are you interested in this

or is this just a job for you

because my experience has been like

if it's just a job for you

then it's just a job

and they don't seem to

you know they

they don't have that drive

I used to say farm

got farm kids

yeah

I used to say farm kids now it's

the thing

I do work for some farms

the bigger farms out here

but they're

they're so

they're

the families run the farms now

they don't

outside much anymore

so now it's a

it's a big family business

so I don't

I don't get to see very many of those

yeah

I find a lot of the farming thing

has gone to where it's

it's it's become

just like you said a business

so the farm kid

now is just like

not a whole lot different from like

maybe

how do I say this the right way

they might have had the same kind of

level of entitlement

and maybe the silver spoon dilemma

yeah

kid never had

and now I'm finding that

it's it's just the same generational thing

it didn't matter whether

they grew up on a farm or not

they always like

didn't have to work that hard

for them for money

or opportunity

it was just going to be it was a given

your last name is this

and you're going to inherit this

yes

they don't

so they don't have that

I was up with that at six in the morning

till eight at night working and

you know the next generation is just like

we had a guy come in and fix this

and they came in and fix the tractor

and they have no interest in learning

how to fix the tractor

because like

they were looking at spreadsheets

and somebody came in and fixed the tractor

that kind of example

that's exactly it yeah

yeah and I find that that's

that's not just a farm kid thing anymore

that's I think

well when I talked to like

you know

anyone they go

my dad was really good with cars

like he wasn't a mechanic

but he was very good with cars

he always fixed the family car

yep

we don't have that anymore

so

guys that are coming in now

they maybe

they certainly probably don't have a father

that worked on the family car

so they got a little bit exposure

in high school maybe

or you know

through a friend that had a fast car

and they started maybe tankering on it

and they

wow I really like this

it's not the same now

so they're not getting the

exposure

so I find that when we get the young people in

sometimes and they go

all the attrition rate is terrible

like they leave after two three years

that's because they didn't know

what the reality of this was

that's right

until they were on the job

whereas like when they used to say

when I worked with my dad

on the family car

or saw him do it

I knew the reality

before I ever decided to take it on as a career

I knew what it was

because he did it

he was a body guy

so I was around it my whole life

I knew what it was going to be like

right

I wasn't prepared for the political side

in the pay side

but I knew it was going to be dirty

hard on the body

you know breathing a lot of crappy stuff

buying a lot of tools

like you know

struggling skin and your knuckles

I knew all that

but these

is now

it's also rewarding though

that's the thing I like it

when you figure that problem out and

it it runs and it's

I don't know

that's that's the addiction

that for me anyways

that's the way I see it

and it's

I can remember getting down here

when I was working in a truck shop

and we'd get those ice storms

that would come through

you remember them like

some of the ones that hit

like 20 years ago

remember they were bad right

hydro was down for whatever

I remember we'd have trucks lined up

waiting to go and us

and you'd be all day

and you were in

you were in your snow suit

and you're in your big boots

and the whole thing

and the service truck never shut off

you just went from one truck to another

hooked up

start charging his batteries

you know

refill his fuel filters

add a bunch of de-icer

you finally got the truck run

it was so rewarding every time

to get that truck going

even though you had five more to do

that day

or or whatever you could get through

before shift done

you just

it was so rewarding every time

to finally get that guy

back on the road

because he was happy to be headed

you know

like we said

this is before yieldies

he'd been asleep in the bunk

or he'd been standing there

maybe watching you for three hours

and you finally get him going

he's just happy

that's

that was the addictive part

is like there's

there's no

your hands are numb

you're frozen

but the reward is

is that you've actually achieved something

that's right man

it's not like it's

it went beyond just

you know

putting a break job on a car

it went to

something like you said

somebody's food

groceries were going to get delivered

somebody

there's there's

we're at another level here

like it's

it's serious stuff

the trucking thing

I wish more young people

would go to it

instead of the automotive side

because I think

yeah it's hard

it's a hard sell though

and I don't understand why

but yeah it's a hard sell

I think that's a hard sell

because the

we've made all the glory

in the last couple years

about fast cars and technology

and yeah

we share the same technology

now in the trucking thing

but the

the trucking industry is doing

a terrible job of

they're having a hard enough time

now getting good truckers

drivers

let alone getting technicians

right

so that's the other obstacle too

and the trucking industry

has got some obstacles

in front of it

but I think like

they really need to step their game

up and say

we need young people

because let's be real

if you're listening

the trucking stuff

right now to start

pays a little bit better

than the automotive side

so if you

if if you're just about the money

look at the trucking industry

because you'll

you'll start out making

a little bit better money I think

and you just

you're paid a different way

right from the

right from the jump

they're in a whole lot of

flat rate in the

trucking industry

so if you're

definitely against it

I don't know how you would

build it

to be honest with you because

you can't

you can't like

too much modifications

too many

yeah

it started out as a

two two frame rails

three axles

and an engine

and a transmission

and some tail lights

and then they added

something to it

that's right

we don't flat rate

all that other added stuff

because there is not

in a book somewhere

yeah right

it doesn't work that way

so if you're that kind of

young technician

that like

wants to problem solve

and and and can

put behind you the

time constraint

and just go and fix the truck

go into it

don't even look at

the automotive side

why

why does your son

go to the automotive

and not follow

you cannot

exactly what you just said

he likes fast cars

he's big into

the Mercedes and BMWs

and

and uh

he wants to

pave his own way

and he wants to

you know

like he wants to do it all

all by himself and

and

he's more interested in cars

and he's intimidated by trucks

I mean he's seen

he's seen the dark side

growing up and

seeing me do it

so like

you know

he's seen me wake up at three in the morning

to go start trucks

or go diagnose stuff

and come back

like work 18 20-hour days

that's not a

and it's a seven day a week

like I haven't had a week

long holiday

since 2008

it was the last time

I had a full week of holiday

you know

and that's

that's my it's

it's my doing

but it's just like

still like

he's seen it so

I think that's what

he just

kind of wanted to do his own

you know

carve his own path

and he wanted

he likes working on cars

and working in fast cars

and

and he's good at it

that's the thing

he's good at

especially diagnosing

and

and stuff

so he wants to

he was big into the EVs

for a while too

he wanted to get into the EV

side of things

because he knows

that it's eventually

going to come

so we actually went to the

truck show in Toronto

two three years ago

okay

the last time it was in

Toronto in Missaga

and we went

him and I went there

for the

for the show

and

we went to go look at all

the EV trucks

and how it's coming up

in the industry

and I tried this

so he's like

see it's

it's going to happen

in the trucks too

so

you know

that might be a

an avenue

that you might want to

consider right

and

he may come back around

you know

yeah

well he's

he's

he's still an apprentice now

so he's still like

salaried

so he's not

I think he'll be

okay for now

but at the end of the day

when the

he sees how the older

techs are

some of them

are struggling right

and

yeah

that's going to be that thing too

or if he comes along

and he's strong

at that kind of

dyag

and stuff like that

that adds another ripple

sometimes

of

getting your spot

in the dealership right

because

true

people have heard me talk about it

there's always the old wood

that you know

has

paid their dues

and done their time

and

shouldn't be taken care of

but a lot of times

the young people

that are really

on the cutting edge

of the tech

they struggle to make money

because it's like

you know we

we have

these guys

that we give good work to

as they should

they should deserve it

and then we have

these young guys

who are absolutely

burning them out on the

really problematic cars

because they have the

knack to do it

but they're not making

the money that

the

the established people

are

and they get resentment towards that

I was that way

you know

I talk all the time

I fix stuff

that the guys

have worked

and not product line

for

10 years

20 years

and I was fixing the

you know

2006 caravan

that they couldn't figure out

like

you know

yeah

and and

they're still there

and they're still being

looked after

and yet

that

when we compare 2006

to a 2026

like

think of the difference

there

in technology

and yet

they're still there

being taken care of

looked after

whatever

it's a national evolution

but I don't necessarily

again it's

it's a caveat

for why

I think flat rate

doesn't work

I just think that you

you you

you get paid

on your ability

not to produce

but to actually like

solve

because then

if you start to trickle down

in your old age

where you're not solving

you're not an obstacle

for the pay

for other people

that are

that's my point

yeah

it's

it's tough man

I wish there's

I was just

there was some magic

you know

saying this is a solution

for it

it's

the only way

we get to it

is we keep having

the conversations

about like

and ask them

how do you want to

I was just having a

conversation with my friend

he's like

I'll pay them anyway

they want to get paid

flat rate

I'll pay them flat rate

if they want to get paid

hourly

I'll pay them hourly

he says

it's a dollar a minute

he says

I'll sit on a stool

I'll hand them ones

every minute

he said

I'll hand them singles

every minute

like he says

whatever they want

he says

I'll make it work

I just

I need them

to be able to come in

and do the job

that I need done

yeah

you know and

and that's it

he says like

my friend Zeb

that works at

Strokers

his biggest thing is

getting guys

that either like

are reliable

or I can remember

he says to tighten

all the F and bolts

he says so many of them

that they can't

tighten all the F and bolts

and

you know

do you find

that's a bigger problem

now

like just going back

and reviewing

your work

and

who's bolt

and forgetting

to tighten stuff

or is it like

I

I think in the

younger's

potential process

I think it's like

well here's

the other thing

the young people are so distracted

now with that

cell phone

and I think it's like

you know

that that

and again

in the dealership

when we're allowing them

to use their cell phone

say to use

to do the DBI

okay so it's like

okay we're gonna let you

use your cell phone

because it's part of the

process now

of

you're taking pictures

with your cell phone

of the car

right

where we give you a tablet

and you've got your

tablet hooked up

so that you're watching

the YouTube video

or you're streaming

your Spotify

on the same tablet

you're going around

I think it's distracting

so I think what happens is

like my cell phone

doesn't distract me

but if I am doing something

and some advisor comes up

and starts talking to me

about the car

that I'm either working on

or

like a car that's coming in

I have to now

consciously put my tools down

and and and

walk away from the car

and have the conversation

because if I'm standing

there trying to talk

and I'm tightening this

I'll miss that third bolt

on that way

and then it's like

or I forget to plug this in

and then I go back

and I put a bunch of other things

in the way

and I don't have that connector

plugged in

and then I go and hit the switch

and the car doesn't start

because I forgot to plug

the starter motor in

and I put the manifold on

over top of it

and all that jazz

and everything

it's off

because I'm trying to get

that five minutes back

yeah

that I had a conversation

with somebody

so

the young people

when we find them

doing things like that

some of it is

they're too distracted

by their damn phone

then you maybe have to

make sense

you have to make a policy

that says okay

you can't be on your phone

and we hate

that right

like we shop owners

that are

they're on the phone

all the time

yeah

is there a shop

with that

that has that policy

have you heard that

or

shop owners

that yeah

they're trying to

to

if they could

they would say

you're not allowed

on your phone

while you're being paid

now here's the caveat

if I'm paid flat rate

I can do anything I want

yeah

in the sense that like

because

you know

if if I only turn six hours

because it's been two hours

on my

the day on my phone

that's on me

right

if I

make 10 hours for you

in in eight hours

and I was on my phone all day

that's on me too

that's like

is the phone really the issue then

but when you start having

comebacks all the time

because you're distracted

you know

and and

you're forgetting things

you're not doing anything

but like listen

I've known lots of older

technicians

that when they were going

through stuff

domestically

like housewives

and and all that kind of stuff

they didn't have cell phones yet

and they were on the phone all the time

you know

they're on the shop phone

that was in the

lunch room

calling

you know

going through this

yeah

what do you mean I got to go

pick up my kids

that you know

it was your turn to pick up the kids

so distractions period

really I think are

what leads to

poor workmanship

is distractions

I really think it is

I think everybody

for the most part

when they come in

they want to do a

really good job

and not forget that kind of stuff

but if we're distracting them

with asking them about

the car they're working on

when it ain't even done yet

or what are we going to do

if we don't get it done by five

well oh my god

like all these scenarios

right

or remember the car

that's coming in tomorrow

remember the car last week

and we're trying to

focus on this

that's how they have

missed bolts

if we're trying to rush them

because that's how they're

fucking paid

yeah

it's gonna

you're gonna have loose bolts

I hate to say it

but you're gonna have it

and it sucks

and I understand

we're gonna go listen

that's not the pay plan

you are right it's not

if a good tech is gonna

want to make sure

they're gonna do

the quality control regardless

but if I have to do

a ton of quality control

and I'm already

right on the cusp of

like going over on the job

every time

for time wise

because either

we didn't bill it properly

we didn't estimate it

properly all these

kind of things

then I

either have to make

a conscious choice

that I'm gonna donate

time and money

for a good quality control

or I'm gonna shirk

on the quality control

then what do you think

most technicians are gonna do

we're gonna shirk

on the quality control

that's why we have it man

I think anyway

that's my own theory

what do you think

I think that's

you're absolutely right

I think the distraction

the only reason I brought it up

is because I feel like

years ago

I'm going back 20 years ago

it wasn't as much of a problem

as it seems to be now

like I hear stories about

all these little things

that you know

like forgetting

these little things

I had a case recently

where they

they mistimed

a next 15

you know

because it's

there's no

key way

it's all

press fit

and you have to lock

the cams in

and you know

so you gotta

take your time

you gotta do it properly

and I double

triple

and when I

my policies

and when I start

a procedure

like that

is I lock the door

I lock

close the door

lock the shop

turn my phone off

and whatever it is

when I'm done

I'm done

and then I'm

sure I'm not distracted

so

that could

yeah

now they're

they're

like what about these

dvi's

like is

because that's something that

just another added thing

and added stress to the tech

that they

gotta

yeah

what are your thoughts on those

so

they're a very powerful tool

because and I didn't believe it

because when I was at the dealer

I always did inspections

right but

the inspection was like

going over and look at what hadn't

been done to the car

so I could know what to sell

right

because again

flat rate you want to sell as much

as you can

maintenance wise

right

while the car is in for something

else

oh it's due for transmission flush

it's due for

yeah the

you know

I would test drive

every car

brakes were

howling

brakes were pulsating

it always got recorded

noted that it needed

some kind of brake inspection

or brake work

so I was always good at doing

inspections

once they started doing the dvi's

yes it really showed me the power

of that

but again

even though I worked in an hourly shop

he never put down the actual time

he never stated it

how long it should actually take you

to do this long dvi

because then he would have looked at

his time for his oil change allotted

time for his dvi

and realized that it was like

his effective labor rate on that job

was in the toilet

it was terrible

because he didn't he wasn't charging

enough to get the dvi done

okay okay

the problem then with the dvi

getting done

is that

it gets done

customer doesn't get anything

you don't convert anything off the dvi

like an upsell

what was the point of doing it

yeah

zero

what's the point in doing it

if the customer is only there

so this is what happens in a dealer

they have them trained now to do these

big dvi's

your customer is just there for warranty

complaint

right

they have a technician like yourself

for myself

maybe that works somewhere else

I don't care what you found on the car

if it's not under warranty

I'm not doing it here

so I don't even

like they're telling them at the counter

that

well there's no point in doing a dvi

trying to find an upsell

yeah yeah yeah

you're not gonna get the work anyway

so we have to look at the dvi thing

from

you have to have top-notch people on the

counter to convert

what you find into sales

otherwise it's pointless

if I do a dvi I've said it before

on mrs smith's car

and six months later mrs smith

back for an oil change again

and all the work that we recommend

on the last dvi didn't get done

if we haven't prepped mrs smith

before she even makes her appointment

that we are going to tell her again

and she says not again

there's no point in doing the dvi again

do mrs smith's oil change

and then get rid of mrs smith

period

end of like it's

it's it's

I hate to tell you that

but there's a lot of shops that do that

every day

they get rid of mrs smith

if she's only there for an oil change

because it's

we're not in the oil change business

we're in the car repair business

we're in the car maintenance business

so shops that are

being sold that the dvi is a

a fix all a cure all

it's not your

super killers on the front counter

that can convert

inspections into work

that's your ticket

you need the product to sell

which is the dvi

but if it's really worth a whole lot

pay your damn technicians for doing it

and I don't mean even in the hourly shops

give them the proper time to do it

right

and here's the thing

we all know like

this new stuff

there isn't a dipstick for half of these fluids

in these engines

yeah

so we're not like

if you look at the actual process of

okay get the transmission fluid up

to x amount of temperature

well you're on a scan tool then

you're road testing to get it up

and

you want the level checked

go find the special tool

it's an hour 45 minute process

that's not part of everybody's

oil change dvi on that particular thing

if the technician comes to you and says

it's leaking fluid

the next question to the customer

to the technician is

well is the level okay

that shouldn't be the next question

because I don't know if the level is okay

well it's not part of the process for this

well yeah

I'm doing that check

well she's going to ask me that

the question customer can ask me that

you tell the customer be transparent

no it's not because it's leaking out

how low is it I don't know

because when we allow them to come in and say

was it low enough to need to fix right away

or can it wait

the answer is no it can't wait

right because if I tell them that can wait

and they don't fix it

and they blow their tranny up

I didn't do them any favors

so now if we want to say well what's the

what's it how long does it take to check the transmission level

you have to build them more time

as soon as you say to them

I'm going to bill you more time to check the level

they know so time will just say just fix it

because you're going to bill me that time

next time additional to check it again

I might better fix it

the cooler lines or whatever is leaking

yeah

advisors don't have this concept in their head

because we've forever we've just spoiled the advisors

with doing things for free

and then we turn around and we do it for the customers

we spoil the customers

if your technician is flat raider incentivize

guess what they're all tired of doing shit for free

so every little thing that's not on the dvi

that has to be done additional

somebody's going to pay for that

yeah

and even in an hourly shop

where everybody's just paid to show up

when we talking in about production

if all this stuff was done every week

add up all the things that we did

15 minutes here 15 minutes there

15 minutes there

if we do 15 minute freeze

if we do them four of them a day

that's an hour we threw away

it's an hour I threw away yeah

the end of the week that's five hours

times how many texts in the shop

four

you want to throw 20 hours of labor away a week

let's do the math on that

round numbers 50 150 bucks

20 hours I can do the math

right how many how many thousands of dollars

do we waste by not charging the customer

but you're talking you're saying

you can't afford to pay your text

but you'll throw away $6,000 a week

come on

this is not complicated stuff

but it's if you're a technician

that has worked flat rate

or incentivize like I have

and then you see all the stuff

that doesn't get charged for

to me it's why it doesn't work period

doesn't work period

whereas you and I know

if somebody just says

Matthew I need you to go get that truck started

and you punch the clock

you get into your service truck you go

you come back four hours later

the service truck is with the service truck

that truck is started fixed

they're going to build at least four hours

at least

you mean to tell me in the automotive side

we can't make that work

of course we can make it work

we're just scared to

it's not hard

it's not hard this is easy easy stuff

it's just

it's it's changing your your thought process

right

and everybody's so scared to

to seem too expensive

or to burn out their customers

if you're the best tech around

you're the best shop around

you're not gonna come back

you'll come back

yeah 100%

you've had I'm sure

you've had customers that

stop using you

and then use you again

right

same thing

right I've been in the dealer game

long enough that I saw customers

that we didn't see for a year

and then they came back

they came back yeah

their car was really f'd up

they had tried the cheaper stuff

and yeah

they were great

because they were just

in my world you're

you're you're going back and fixing all the

the little hiccups that

yeah they tried to

and what I'm seeing too

is they'll try and fix it themselves too

to try and save money

and then I'm like

well how much money do you say

now you're gonna have to pay me

a whole week's worth of work

to just getting back up to par

in order for you know like

every light's on in the dash

there's no ABA

every like you know like it's just

yeah it's coming up

it's coming up on its annual safety

inspection people like commercial trucks

are done twice annual

every six months

every year yeah annual year

some fleets they do them every six

every six yeah

it just depends on the fleet

but it's mandatory at least once a year

the thing is gotta be safety inspected

which means when they've been using the cheap guy

and leaving everything to the last minute

the truck ends up out of service much longer

than they wanted it to be

and it costs much more

than what they wanted it to cost

because they kept putting it off

and you know what it is

about you to go back to loose bolts and things

probably a lot of what you find is like

when they've been doing it themselves

you're using somebody cheaper

just a lot of loose bolts

a lot of loose bolts and yeah

you know yeah

and you get

and every going back to the safety thing

every safety when you get the truck

all it's it's it doesn't need anything

it doesn't need anything

it's it's all good until you get into it

and then they go oh my god

jack it up and the kingpin's going like this

or you know like

I'm the same like I roll underneath

and and I talk about like

I would pound on the brake chambers

and I could hear the spring rattle

yep okay

needs a brake chamber

right

or you go underneath and you see one wheel

so it's wet

okay now you're into

and then you pull them off

and it's like okay they're wet

and they're not that worn

because they they're wet

you pull the right off

now you're into at least probably a four axle

or excuse me a two axle

four hub brake drum

that's right yeah

you're into you know

couple thousand bucks there

labor all that kind of jazz

if you do one axle

you might as well do both on a truck

because like it's going to roll through

inspection somewhere

and like all this kind of stuff

you know

it's like

you go out there and you test

here's an example of people

there might be four batteries

sitting in the battery box

underneath the cab

you go out there and you test

one battery is bad

yep

guess what

it's getting all three or all four

it's not getting one

because

you know

that's that's how this works so

to bring it back to the

automotive side of things

when you have a customer come in

and it's like they've got

two batteries in their car

they've got a main battery

an auxiliary battery

and you've you test the main

battery and it's junk

why are you leaving that auxiliary in there

if you want them to have a failure

on it

which is going to cause a different

bunch of symptoms

and all this kind of stuff

six months from now

do it both

oh it costs so much money

i'm sorry did you sell them the car

no

did you design the car

no

did they do any kind of research

to know that when

they need a battery now

and they're Cherokee

and their Cherokee uses two batteries

that it's going to be a thousand

dollars instead of three

you they didn't do that research

it's not your problem

prep the estimate

sell it to the customer

on to the next car

it's it's how flat rate texts think

yeah hard

you know it's

where we screwed this industry up is

because we've always expected

that the flat rate producing

technicians to think one way

but the people on the counter

always wanted to think a different way

and we always used to say

well they have to think that way

so we have business tomorrow

nope

the technician in the back knows

that like

if i keep doing my job well

i'll always have work

this is where we screwed it up people

sorry it's a bit of a rant

but you're absolutely right

yeah

that's what i think anyway

for my you know

ivory tower sitting here

you know

telling shop owners every week

what they do wrong

that's how i see it

and you know

i'm not right all the time

but there is some truth

to what i say

because i watch it and see it

and i've watched it

since my earliest days

i've always watched how the business side

of this business was done

and some people tell me

i maybe i had no business looking at it

it wasn't my place to

it wasn't my

and i wasn't telling them how

i was just watching

watching you

listening

and learning

so when i would see things that

you know

that customer can certainly afford

that repair they just won't want to

they drove up in a Mercedes

like you're not showing them value

and your value is you

your value is what math

you can do what i can do

if you're not showing them that

because you don't have confidence

in what you are

you're no longer on the work

you're never going to last

well

Matthew when we had the new safety

systems come into place

in in Ontario

this is a funny story

one of the guys that i

apprenticed under way back when

before the

1999

i worked for him

as soon as that new system came

into place

man he shut his shop down

i've heard there's

i've heard dozens of stories of that

i don't know why

i don't understand why but

i don't because i mean

as long as i worked with him

he never bent on the rules of like

what should be done

in terms of a safety

like he wasn't the type that would go

you know and sign it

and and not look at it and

and keep the guy on the road

because like he's a good customer

he didn't like to do that

but as soon as they came through

with the new system

he shut he shuttered it

i think it's just people got

intimidated by it

but really it's

now on our side

it's frustrating though

like trying to take a picture

of the brake stroke

and you're

i'm like

come on guys like

and give

and why

why couldn't they give us a

separate camera

what why do you have to use the

tablet like

yeah

i don't understand that part

you know like

that's

and and like my shop

that i work in now

the lighting is terrible

yes

my boss is probably going to

listen and i'll say it again

call your buddy

and get your

fucking estimate for the lights

because we've been hearing about

this for two months now

but anyway

like it's

so trying to hold the light

the tablet

and the measuring tool

to get everything

focus and to where you can see it

it's it's

i do them pretty fast

but it frustrates the hell out

of me

you know yes

and then like

you know they want the tire

pressures and kpa

instead of psi

because canada is metric

and yeah

like if i say to anybody that has

practice

you know

metric all their lives

and i say your tire has 255 kpa

in it they have no

couldn't tell you what that is

but if i say it's got 35 psi

in it they go

oh good

but i think that's our generation

though because

i feel like we were raised

like half of metric

and half imperial and

yeah like i measure in psi

you know

but the funniest one is temperature

like i

80 degrees in my pool

i know what that is

i couldn't tell you what that was in

celsius but

for the outside

it's 20 degrees outside

and i'm like oh i know what that is

so we're so like

i alluded to 180 degree thermostat

or i want a 195

yes oh yeah the thermostats yes

but but i was looking in celsius

i have no idea

i couldn't tell you though

doing some cheap conversion

and getting my phone

but yet i'm supposed to put

the tire pressure down now

in kpa come on

kpa yes

i'm allowed to do things like that

it's

i like this system

because there's a little more

there's a little more documentation

there's a little more

a lot of cars that we would have

passed now

when they finally rewrote it

they rewrote it to say

okay rocker panels that are rusted

don't pass

not

oh there's still a fix to either end

so that passes maybe

like it's up to your discretion

there's no more of that

like if it's rusted rockers

we don't pass it

somebody else can buy the car

and pass it we don't

where i work we just don't

do you find that helps a lot for

like arguing and like the customers

that try to argue

oh no that should pass

and whatever now it's more

where i have the problems are like

the salesman that is like

wanting to sell the car

and it's like

because i work at a used car lot now

but it was the same thing

even when i worked at

the last shop i was at

and used car lots

would bring their cars in

and you would say

that doesn't pass because

you like you would look up in the back

and the bumper brace is all rotten

it's all rotted

like the rockers were good

but the bumper brace is rotten

well that's a fail

but you can't even see that on

you know

no you can't from the outside of the car

you can't see it

but i know that it's rotten

yeah

well that's not a cheap repair to do

people think that it's not that much

it's a cheap

it's an expensive repair

then you start looking at the rest of the car

and it's like i'm sorry

we're failing this

based on the condition of rust

and they get really pissed

we had a 2012

GMC terrain

low miles like 130,000 kilometers

ran great

i condemned it

because it was too rusted

when i started to lift it

from the rockers that the pinch blinch

were supposed to

you could hear it creaking and cracking

and and rust is starting to fall out

on the ground

yeah

the rest of the cars there's no holes yet

but that car fails

100% fails all day long

in the old way of doing this

because there was no photos

those cars passed all the time

yeah it was a mechanic

he was looking at your tires

looked at your brakes

looked at your suspension

and he passed the car

so i like that

the salesman problem

is they still think everything is like

everything passes

yeah four tires

still only cost 200 bucks

and brakes still only cost 150 and yeah

every car should only take a thousand bucks

and you're like

wait now it's got an eight-ass problem

and they're like

a what problem

eight-ass problem

what's that going to cost thousands

yeah

shit

we had a 2015

Mazda 3

that they gave the customer

$8,600 for they bought the car from them

we looked at the car

and i went this thing needs

$7,000 worth of work

well do the math you paid 86

and it needs seven

it's the most expensive

11-year-old Mazda 3 in Ontario now

and once the auction

they lost a little huge on it

because at the auction

they're not going to get their $8,600 back

no

they'll get $3,600

but that again is where

again in this industry

we let the salesman throw money away

all day long

or we let service advisors

dictate all these kind of decisions

that cost us all kinds of money

and then we hold the technicians

to such a high standard

of production in order to get paid

that never

that never made sense with me

I would watch salesmen do screw-ups

like that or service advisors

all day long cost the business

thousands at the end of the week

and a technician

we couldn't pay for another 15 minutes

yeah

it's those kind of things

Matoo that made me the way I am

yeah

jaded or whatever

pissed off angry

you know

yeah

I love those kind of that way of thinking

and when I talk to people

they look at it and they go

a lot of what he says makes sense

is he's not

he's not wrong

he's not thinking wacky

but it's the way it was always done

and I think that if we want to get ahead

of so many problems in this industry

we have to really look at that

and go

we might better listen to them a little bit more

even if it's just on

how long is this going to take you

listen to them

and then charge for that

yeah

do it again

and again

and then I think we start to get back

some of this industry

where the customer is not holding all the power

we as a collective

not the technicians have holding all the power

but we in the repair industry

have a lot more of the power back

so yeah

I agree

I think we can get there

so

I think so too

I don't want to keep you any longer

it's been uh

it's been

a couple hours and you know

geez already

I know it goes fast man

that's wild

right so

anything you want to add

anything you want to say

what

where do you hope to be in a year

two years

well in two years

hopefully we have this new fixed location

up and running and

if uh

is there any text in the Ottawa

310 t-text looking for a job

hit me up on uh

on the facebook and

yeah

and that's

near Hawksbury

it's going to be near Hawksbury yeah

yeah right on

right on

well if I'm ever back in that area

I'll pop try and pop in on you

oh absolutely for sure

yeah

so I still go see my friends in uh

I have a friend near Limoge

and I have some friends near

Orlean still

okay yeah yeah

that's all near us

yeah

yeah you know

Hawksbury I didn't spend a whole lot of time

I think I drove through a couple times

but I didn't spend a whole lot of time there

every time I go back to Ottawa now

it looks so different right

from

when I was

it changes every

every week I find that's

yeah

like when I first

when I first came

I lived in the peon

and by the time I was done

I was in Rockland

so to think about how I crossed the city

as I kept moving

you know

different opportunities for two jobs

and a relationship that ended

and all that kind of stuff

like I

I moved all the way from

one point I lived in a bar even

you know

yeah

I've done

I've done the stretch you know

yeah

when I drive out 17 now

you know what I mean

past the split

yep

look different now

I can remember all those like

before they built the college

down the cross from the

from plaster or leans

like I can remember all those fields

you know

I can remember

oh yeah

I can remember Peter Allen

when there was nothing there

yeah

you know

and now it's

it's all houses now past

past the trim row

and it's all

it's all houses now it's

I lived off a trim

yeah

and now it's so different right

so

yeah

it's it's a changing world

so anybody

if if you're

in the Ottawa area

and you want to

you want to set something up with

my two

get a hold of me

and hold me

I'll make it happen

I'll help you out so

I think he'd be

a fantastic guy to learn from

and you know

I think he's doing it right

so

I want to thank you

for coming on tonight man

so thanks for having me

this has been a lot of fun

thank you for listening

that always won't say that enough

but I mean it's

it's pretty cool to talk about

my kind of my

my beginning steps in this

industry and where it took me

and I don't think I'll ever

make it back to the truck thing

I'm too old

I'll be

50 next month

so

yeah

yeah well

I'll be turning 50

this is a little sidebar

I'll be in Las Vegas, Nevada

for SEMA Apex

for our giveaway

and I'll be turning 50 in

in Las Vegas so

oh perfect

yeah that worked out

look for me on the internet

somewhere

Beardy Canadian rested

you know

three in the morning

on Fremont Street for

you know

yeah

oh there's Jeff

there's me

yeah

so that's awesome

thank you

Mathew

thank you

Merci Monchon

thank you

so uh

anybody get a hold of me

get a hold of Mathew

love to talk to you guys again

so

thank you everyone

hey if you could do me a favor

real quick

and like comment on

and share this episode

I'd really appreciate it

and please

most importantly

set the podcast to

automatically download

every Tuesday morning

as always I'd like to thank

our amazing guest

for their perspectives and

expertise

and I hope that you'll

please join us again

next week on

this journey of change

you thank you to my

partners in the ASA group

and to the change

in the industry podcast

remember what I always say

in this industry

you get what you pay for

here's hoping everyone

finds their missing 10

millimeter

and we'll see you all

again next time

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