Tesla Chief Designer Franz Von Holzhausen; A $30,000 Ducati X Diavel S

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Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts Radio News.

I'm Hannah Elliott.

And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot Pursuit.

Coming up on today's podcast, we talk with Tesla's chief designer, Franz von Holthausen.

This is a very well-timed conversation. I do have to say, Matt, Tesla's been in the news.

Because they have been in the news. And he addresses the stories on the Bloomberg about door handles,

but also talks about designing what I really consider to be a timeless vehicle, the Model S.

You know, when you pointed out during our conversation that it's been around for 15 years now,

my first thought is time flies and that's insane.

But also, you're kind of right.

I mean, this is one of the few vehicles that really hasn't had basically any noticeable updates aesthetically.

Since then. And it fits right in. I mean, obviously, I see them all over here in LA.

All right, we're also going to talk about our viewer emails,

because we get a lot of emails from viewers that have the same complaint about me.

Which we will discuss. I've got thoughts on that.

We'll go over it.

And we do want you to write to us. Remember our email address is hotpersuitatbloomburg.net.

So first, let's talk about what we've been driving and what we've been doing over the past week.

I have had the opportunity to get off of my Harley-Davidson and get back on a Ducati.

You know, I've had a long history with Ducati. I've had 15 of them,

including the original XD Aval S, which was like their first attempt at a feet-forward cruiser.

But since May, since I picked up my Harley-Davidson Fat Bob, I've only been riding the Hog.

So recently, my buddy Jason Chinook, who runs Ducati in North America,

he hooked me up with the XD Aval S, the new version of the V-Twin Cruiser that I had.

But this one has a V4, 170 horsepower, and looks like worlds different from the original XD Aval S.

Now, I know Ducati is claiming this is a bold new chapter in the line.

Obviously, the bike looks very hot. Do you agree? Is this a bold new chapter,

or is it more like a slight step forward?

So I am not in love with the way it looks, although I wasn't.

Why?

Well, it just looks to me sort of in a way like big and brutish.

And Ducati's, I prefer to look sleek and almost feminine.

The Ferrari of motorcycles, if you will.

Exactly.

And it's got, for example, it's got a passenger seat for a passenger with a big old butt, you know?

What are you saying, Matt? Are you against big butts?

No, I like big butts, and I cannot lie.

Come on, please.

But I will say it just doesn't really make sense to me on this bike,

and coming from, I had the old XD Aval S, like I said,

which looked more like kind of a rebel, like American kind of out west cruiser,

looked a lot more like what something, you know, Keanu Reeves would ride.

And this thing looks very futuristic, which I'm just not in love with.

I kind of love a futuristic motorbike.

I mean, that's like the whole Matrix-y, like you're in sort of a long flowing black leather jacket,

and it's like you're wearing wraparound black glasses and you're on a bike.

I mean, that's a look.

I actually didn't think about that. Keanu was in, obviously, the Matrix,

and did ride a Ducati 996.

See, this is like the vibe.

I'm kind of curious if your months of riding a Harley have changed your perception

and changed your preferences a little bit.

Well, I don't think they've changed my aesthetic preferences

because I still am in love with Ducati's Panagali.

I still have a couple of Ducati monsters, classic monsters that I love.

The Multistrada is my favorite bike of all time.

But riding the Harley has changed the way I ride bikes because it's got so much torque down low.

I keep it between like 2,000 and 5,000 RPM.

Like 5,000 is the absolute upper limit, right?

Yeah, you're not getting uptight about anything.

No, and so I get on this bike yesterday.

I picked it up at the Hudson Valley Motorcycles in Austin,

and I'm riding it back to my house in Skarsdale,

and it took me a second to get used to the fact that it has like an 11,000 red line.

You know, you live in the upper revs, and I wasn't there.

So I was like, this sounds kind of weird. This feels kind of weird.

And when I did open it up, it was kind of scary how fast it is.

My Harley-Davidson is pretty sporty for a Harley, but it's nothing compared to this.

And I went back and I looked at horsepower to pounds.

I always think it's the easiest to understand.

How many pounds is each horse pushing?

And so in a 911, in a Carrera S, a new 992.2 Carrera S,

you have 473 horsepower. It weighs about 3,400 pounds.

So each horse essentially is pushing 7.2 pounds.

And that turns out to be almost exactly the same as my Harley,

because the Harley has 95 horsepower.

Interesting.

But it weighs like 650 pounds, or 675 or something.

So those two are pretty similar.

The Ducati blows them out of the water.

What is the Ducati weigh? 500 pounds?

The Ducati weighs about 500 pounds exactly. I think it's like 505.

Okay.

And it has 168 horsepower.

So each horse is pushing 3 pounds.

Wow.

You're flying.

Absolutely.

You're flying.

And this isn't their track bike.

This is their poser Boulevard cruiser.

And so it was a little bit scary at first as I was riding at home.

Then I got used to it, and it's like, I'm reminded at how it feels to pilot a vehicle

that you can pretty much put anywhere you want at any time.

You know, forward or backward, because the brakes are also phenomenal.

It turns in like a dream, at least compared to a Harley soft tail.

Sure, sure.

And yeah, it just made me feel really confident, really happy.

Is it worth 30 grand?

It is very expensive.

That's true.

And if it's the kind of thing that you're into, yes, it's definitely worth 30 grand.

Yeah.

Would I pay that much?

No, I would take that money and buy a new multi strata.

Could you?

Okay.

And so my other question is, could you ride this for a few hours every day and be okay

physically?

Yeah, you can because it's feet forward.

But that's another thing I was thinking like, so I, you know, obviously that's why

I bought a Harley Davidson.

I want that sort of feet forward cruiser position.

It's relaxed.

It's chill.

But on this kind of bike, on a Ducati, I really want my feet under me.

Yeah.

Because you want to be able to push it into corners.

Sure.

Yeah.

Put your weight on your feet.

Dig, you know.

Get your knee down.

Well, not that.

For me.

No, no, no.

Okay.

No, we don't want to go crazy.

For others.

In any case, very cool and a different, interesting and like variety is the spice of life,

right?

Totally.

How long do you have this bike?

I'm living the dream.

I have it for, I'm going to probably keep it for a week.

Okay.

So that's fun.

Yeah.

You'll have your fun.

I mean, do you want to talk about something on the very other side of the spectrum?

Yes.

Two old Rolls Royces.

Yes.

Oh.

Which ones do you have again?

Which Rolls Royces do you have again?

We have some silver shadows from the 70s and a silver spur from the 80s in 88.

And then a two door shadow, which is an early shadow that was done by Park Mulliner Ward, which

is a early division that was working with Rolls Royce at the time.

So kind of, you know, call it 70s and one from the 80s, four door mostly Rolls Royces.

And I, you know, we've talked about them.

These are not expensive cars.

They're fun to drive.

They've got a price.

They're not expensive to buy.

Initially.

They're not expensive to buy.

But I am good.

I was like, do I even want to talk about this?

And I'm like, yeah, I have nothing to hide.

Look, sometimes it's a challenge and it is a slightly dysfunctional relationship.

And the irony of it all is all, none of them are, none of them were drivable.

No.

On Monday.

Are you serious?

Well, look, we sort of rotate through, obviously you can only drive one car at once.

And on Monday afternoon, I had a dentist appointment in Pasadena.

And so I thought I would take my own mine.

You know, we share some of them, but this silver shadow in particular is mine.

It was given to me as a gift.

And so it's a great car.

No, no, honestly, no issues, some slight electrical stuff.

But, you know, it's been doing this thing.

It's been doing this thing where after like 15 or 20 minutes of driving with no

warning at all, it'll just lose power.

And I fixed that by quickly putting it into neutral and then restarting it.

And it restarts fine.

And then I go along my merry way.

And it's not that big a deal.

It's not a big deal.

Sounds kind of dangerous.

Well, it's, if you know what's happening, it's not scary when you're on the highway.

If you didn't know what's happening, you might get a little worried.

But I know what's happening.

So it's not a big deal.

I just go with it.

And it wasn't enough that I thought I want to give the car to Barry or Charlie

for a week or two.

I want to be driving it.

I don't want to mess with it being in the shop.

I travel too much.

There's too much other fun stuff to be doing.

Anyway.

Also, I imagine.

I don't want to pry too deeply, but you can pry Charlie Agarwal, right?

He's the Agapoo.

Yeah, Charlie Agapoo.

He's the famous Rolls-Royce mechanic.

He's been here in the LA area.

I imagine the shop rate is not cheap, right?

And especially getting parts.

I just can't imagine the repair bills.

It's not as expensive as, you know, a couple grand.

It's not like thousands and thousands.

Call it a couple grand once to twice a year.

It's not thousands and thousands of dollars.

If you're imagining tens of thousands of dollars, it is not that.

It's like a couple grand a couple times a year for this car.

I fear like the $10,000 bills of a Bentley, like an 80s Bentley.

We've never had anything more than a four-digit bill on that car.

And usually it's low.

I wonder, you know, some of the guys from Rolls-Royce are coming in here today.

Thank you for hooking that up.

How do you think one of your older Rolls-Royce cars,

and I don't mean in terms of acceleration or braking,

but like in just in terms of the magic carpet right feel,

how do you think they compare to a new Rolls?

Is it the same kind of vibe?

Very similar, honestly, very similar.

And I even made this point to Magnus

when he came to wait for the tow truck with me this last time

just as a sign of moral support because he's so sweet.

The car, even though it kept dying for no particular reason

on the 134 out to Pasadena,

it would start up again, no problem,

and it was silent and totally smooth.

There's no, you know, it's a beautiful driving car.

It just has taken to dying.

And then of course when I pulled in,

I didn't make it to the dentist's office doing my little trick, right?

Just throw it into neutral and then restart it and then, you know, it's fine.

By the time I had got to the dentist and I stopped it,

there was some smoke, there was some smoke.

There was enough smoke that a couple people

helpfully had to tell me that my radiator was out,

which this is not a radiator issue.

The car was not overheating. This is something different.

But it's like not the time for some,

one was a man, one was a woman,

to tell me that my radiator is out.

It's like, well, it's not and don't talk to me.

I don't want your help.

All that to say to answer your question,

I think very similar, very smooth, very quiet.

If you want to avoid driving like a jerk,

buy a Rolls Royce. It calms you down.

It might be like a Harley.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, that's the same.

That's very similar.

Now let's talk about some of these emails we've been getting

and we'll get to the concerns about my rude,

boorish style in just a moment.

But first I want to talk about the protesters at the IAA,

the EAA in Munich. What did we learn?

So we got a great email from Mike,

who was so nice and he actually was in Munich

on his way to the open space of the IAA show.

And Mike, thank you for enlightening me

that I did get the protesters' goals wrong

last week. Mike said that their actual main thing

is about climate change and the effect motor vehicles

in particular are still having.

And they're very opposed to subsidies for the industry,

as well as the damage already done by existing technologies.

So basically they're protesting that they feel the,

you know, the political parties are too cozy

with the industry lobby.

And so they're pushing for actual tighter regulations

on the automotive side.

So thank you for clearing that up, Mike.

Yes, we are.

Mike points out they're called Klima Kleber in German.

I wasn't going to butcher that.

Well, it means climate gluer.

And these have to be my favorite protesters

because they're the ones who actually

superglue themselves onto things.

Have you ever seen them do it?

No, all I heard about was tomatoes being thrown.

Oh my God, it's fantastic.

So for example, in London, a few of them

superglued themselves to double-decker buses

two years back.

And then, like, they can't come off.

They've got to have, you know, first responders

come and get them loose.

That's very Jane Fonda.

I just love it when protesters chain themselves

to things or glue themselves to stuff.

Would you ever chain yourself to a tree, Matt,

to save it?

I don't think so.

Because for me, that's like kind of wasting

the time of first responders who could be

saving someone's life or, you know,

I think it's hilarious.

But I love trees.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm a fan of the climate.

I just want Ford to bring back

big-inch V8s and put them in the F-150.

These aren't mutually exclusive goals.

They can't.

I mean, I think we can have both.

Exactly.

It's not for everybody.

Look at the Raptor R, right?

It's a great truck with a supercharged

five-liter V8, which some people need,

but not everyone needs.

Not everyone wants it.

Exactly.

Honestly.

And what they do is they just price it at like 100 grand.

Fine.

Price control.

Okay, so we got another email.

Yes.

This one from Matt.

Exactly.

Not me, right?

A different Matt.

And at first, like, I'm reading this

and he takes issue with my complaints

about the Rivian software,

because I didn't like the software experience.

I love the Rivian design.

Sure.

I love the way it sits.

I appreciate the way it drives,

but I just didn't like the fact that

it doesn't get satellite radio from a satellite.

The key card doesn't really work.

Uh-huh.

Those are valid.

I actually think those are valid points.

Yeah.

I had a number of issues with it.

It doesn't have Apple CarPlay,

which I don't care that much about

if you have something better.

Yeah.

Like GM has a far better product,

so it doesn't bother me.

Sure.

But Rivian doesn't.

So in any case, he says he could not disagree more.

And he has a Kia EV5,

or no, he has a Hyundai.

No, he has Ionic.

Ionic 5, which is the sister brand.

And we were saying the Kia EV9 is better,

but he says the Ionic 5 software is...

Well, he said it sucks, basically.

No, he actually...

Oh, oh, oh.

Right.

Okay, I see, I'm reading it again.

You're right.

Yeah, he says it doesn't remember any of his regen settings.

Yes, no dog mode.

I don't know what dog mode is,

but I hope...

I'm gonna write back to Matt

and find out what that is.

Yeah.

Bluetooth pairing takes 45 seconds,

which is way too long.

No, and that's actually a huge improvement.

I remember being in some Lexus

and Acura's back in the day.

Like on a 15-minute drive,

you won't have time to connect the Bluetooth.

It takes that long.

Right, well...

So 45 seconds is still too long.

It's still too long in today's day.

We've made progress.

So anyway, he loves the Rivian software,

at least compared to Tesla, Kia, Hyundai, et cetera.

But his PS is my favorite part.

The PS really got us,

because Matt...

I mean, God love ya.

But I'm a New Yorker dude.

I lived in Manhattan for almost 20 years.

So Matt makes the case that...

The other Matt.

Matt the writer makes the case that Matt,

the co-host, Matt Miller, talks over me too much.

But he had recently listened to a podcast

about stuff you should know.

And the podcast said that

East Coast New Yorkers tend to talk over people.

And so that must be why Matt Miller

is talking over me on the podcast.

But I'm a New Yorker too.

And Matt doesn't live in New York, actually.

Here's the thing.

I'm from Ohio.

Matt actually doesn't live in New York.

Well, I live in Scarsdale.

But I will say that

this has been a problem for me my whole life.

I don't just talk over you too much.

I do it to my wife.

I do it to my mom.

I have three little brothers

and I talk over them constantly.

You probably had to, to be heard.

I mean, maybe that's why.

But it's something that I've been working on.

And I don't want to do.

You know what?

It's sort of a good-bad combo

because the other thing is

I love listening.

This is why I'm a journalist.

I love it.

If I am talking to somebody interesting,

I will just listen and pepper in a question or two.

And I'm just loving listening.

So part of it is, you know,

I'm not a trained TV personality like Matt is.

So we're actually coming from

two sort of different backgrounds

where my background is,

I ask a question and then I shut up and listen.

And Matt is a little bit more bombastic,

which makes you great at your job.

Would you say that's fair, Matt?

I think that's very kind of you.

And I, you know what?

It's a complaint we've gotten since we started this podcast

well over a year ago.

It's something that my wife also,

she listens every week and says

she hates it when I talk over you

because she wants to hear what you have to say,

just like I think a lot of our listeners.

So it's something that I need to deal with.

I have been working on it.

I thought I had improved to some extent.

I will say that last Saturday,

I started my We Govee.

I took my first shot.

So I admire you so much for talking about this.

So, well, yeah, it's not,

I mean, I talk about it on TV all the time as well.

So obviously I want to lose a few pounds.

I really want to lower my blood sugar,

reduce my chance of heart attack

and a number of other things.

But I read, I've been like deep into it

since I injected myself for the first time.

And by the way, the injection doesn't hurt.

It doesn't hurt at all.

Where did you inject yourself?

I did it in my stomach,

but I didn't even realize I had done it.

I thought maybe I missed it.

I didn't push the button right or something,

but it actually just doesn't hurt.

But the cool thing I found is,

apparently the semi-glutide,

whatever the chemicals,

have an anti-inflammatory effect on your brain.

So a lot of users experience a focus or a clarity,

which I'm looking forward to.

Okay, let me ask a question to be the devil's advocate.

What new found clarity?

Is it possible that is a side effect

from doing fewer other substances

that may be clouding the clarity?

Yes.

So that's another thing I found.

People who, for example, smoke weed a lot.

I'm not saying you do.

No.

When they start taking wegovi or ozempic

or a zip-bound or whatever,

they don't have an urge to do that as much,

to smoke weed as much or take gummies

or drink alcohol,

or any of these other things,

smoke cigarettes,

stuff yourself with Haagen-Dazs.

Exactly.

So it kind of apparently curbs your cravings

beyond just food,

and it eliminates also what's known as food noise,

which I have a lot of,

but food noise isn't just about food.

It's like so many other things,

like I need a smoke, I need a beer,

I need a this, I need a that,

and maybe even, for example, using your cell phone all the time,

hoping for that dopamine hit.

And so I think it's pretty cool.

It's like an experiment for me, and I'll see how it goes.

Thank you for sharing that information with us,

for trusting us to hold that.

We are here along with you on the journey,

and we wish you the best as long as you are healthy and happy.

I am healthy and happy.

Thank you.

Thank you to all of you.

Yeah, it's nice to hear.

By the way, right in to us,

our email address is HotPursuit at Bloomberg.net.

Still ahead, we welcome Tesla's chief designer,

Franz von Holthausen.

I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott.

There's more Hot Pursuit right after this.

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The man needs almost no introduction.

Franz von Holthausen,

chief designer of Tesla since 2008.

Thank you for joining us

and also diner designer,

because the last time I ran into you, Franz,

was at the Tesla diner,

which is very cool looking, I have to say.

That was really fun to see you there.

Yeah, it was great to see you guys.

Great to meet you.

I'm happy to be here and see what's on your mind.

So I have to ask, how's business at the diner?

Are you still there like every day

or has it tapered off a little bit for you?

No, I think we have a really great team there.

And the design of the diner was really about,

how do we bring a future vibe to charging?

How do we make the charging experience exciting again?

And looking at the location in Hollywood,

it made sense to bring a bit of a movie theme into it as well.

And so the idea of coming in charge,

grab a bite to eat, catch a movie,

just had a really cool vibe to it.

And we wanted to compliment that with inexperience

in the building and the location.

That really made you feel like you're stepping into something

new and fresh and positive

and a glimpse into where our future is.

But it's all around you right at the moment.

It makes me a little bit jealous that you have it out there in LA

and that Hannah got to go.

It's always the case that Hannah gets the good assignments

and I have to sit here in the studio.

But any plans to open a diner in New York?

Yeah, we've been talking about diners located around the world.

And so I think it's just a matter of stay tuned

where we're checking it out.

Well, I have to say I thought it was so cool how

an automaker thinks about building real authentic community

with its fans, with its customers, with its buyers.

It's nice to see.

Obviously Tesla runs very deep for the people who do love the brand

and I really did see that.

It was like a celebration.

And I love that.

Just the idea that you guys are doing something to try to...

I give back to your customers isn't the wrong word,

but to try to do something fun.

Obviously it's for everybody,

but it certainly did feel like a Tesla hub

of people who really love the brand.

Yeah, and kind of in these trying times,

I guess it's the best way you could call it,

especially here in LA.

It's really great to see the community coming together.

And it felt like a space where you could be free

and comfortable and get a great meal,

sustainably sourced, and just enjoy the time

and be around other folks that are like-minded,

really thinking about the future

and where we're headed from a sustainability perspective.

And I think that you touched on

that that sense of community is really strong

and powerful there.

And compliment that with great food and a great time.

I don't see why you wouldn't want to go there.

I want to go back before we get to the future

and talk about the beginning,

because I have long felt that the Model S

is incredibly elegant and doesn't seem to age, right?

It's got to be 15 years old,

and it still could be a new car.

That's not something you could say about

Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes.

So how did you go about designing that

and tell us about the beginning with Elon

and the idea to do the Supercharger Networks

and the whole start of...

I hear it came together very quickly.

I mean, I don't know how much time we have.

It's like a book in itself.

But I think the abridged version

is really when we started...

We talked a lot about the technology

and how advanced the technology was.

We saw a lot of...

If you recall that time, 2007, 2008, 2009,

there was a lot of turmoil going on in the world.

But we also saw the rise of EV and hybrid

and a lot of companies

and a lot of people were really looking at

we have to really stand out and be unique

and be over the top,

kind of shout really loud from the top of the hill

that you're trying to do something sustainable

and better.

And I think the products that we were seeing

were pretty extreme.

We felt like we have a great technology.

Let's approach it from a refined perspective.

Let's look beyond just the immediate impact

of bringing an EV into the marketplace

but really look at it from a long-term perspective

and how do you get somebody

that, past the early adopters,

will continue to purchase the product

and own the product and feel good about it

or aspire to it long-term.

And so I think with that approach,

we looked at a little bit more classical design language,

something that was clean and elegant

and refined that, you know, I think...

It didn't have to make a big, huge splash

at an impact level, but over time,

it's obviously we've seen

that it's been able to sustain itself.

And I think just classic proportions,

clean, elegant lines,

the language is really derived

around this idea of efficiency

and when you're starting a brand

or you're starting a company like Tesla was at that time,

there was no library of history to draw from.

So we had the opportunity

to really kind of create our own history.

It's interesting, by the way, Franz,

that you say that the language is around efficiency.

One of the people who listened to this podcast

wrote in and asked

which you consider most important when designing a vehicle,

the beauty or the aesthetics, I guess,

the drag coefficient or the ease of manufacturing,

because you've got to consider all three of those things, right?

Yeah, all three are equally important.

I think at the end of the day,

the customer cares a little bit less

about the ease of manufacturing,

but if we don't take that into consideration,

then it's really difficult for us

to bring the product to the customer.

So I think there's that part of it.

Yeah, I was going to say,

I remember back in those early, early days,

being with Elon,

with him taking me through a prototype,

a Model S prototype,

and he was talking about that

like a computer on wheels.

And that was the first time I had ever heard anybody

make that comparison or connection.

And even then, he was talking about how,

no, this is going to be like a seamless thing

that's also connected to your phone.

And it just sounded really different.

I mean, it was completely different before.

Completely.

And so from a design perspective,

were you approaching the design

as this is a completely new paradigm for us?

This is even a computer?

Or were you still, I mean, you mentioned

having nothing to draw on.

So were you thinking of it as a car

or something different?

Well, at the end of the day,

we knew it was going to be a car, right?

But I think that perspective

allowed us to open up

the range of possibilities

and really explore beyond the traditional.

And I think that's kind of getting back

to this first principles perspective

where we're not following just what,

like lemmings off the cliff,

what everybody else is doing.

We're really looking at how do we solve the problem.

And we just saw that there's a lot of

consistent kind of complacence

and normalcy in the way

vehicles were being presented to the public.

And we've looked at technology

in the computer space

and phone space and electronics

just moving so quickly

and being able to adapt really quickly.

And that's what the consumer,

what us have in our life.

And the vehicle always felt like

it was 10 years behind all that.

So we really wanted to bring the vehicle

into the same level,

if not as advanced,

if not more advanced than

state-of-the-art electronics at the time.

And with that,

we're able to continue to evolve

and upgrade.

And we brought over the air updating

to the vehicles really early.

And that's allowed vehicles

like the Model S to still stay relevant.

There's so many people that I bump into

or talk to

that own one of the very first Model Ss.

But because we keep the firmware

and the software refreshing

and up-to-date and current,

they don't feel the need to

have to upgrade the cars.

It's still great right now

and it still feels relevant.

By the way, a lot of the cars that you've worked on

really do age well

because I've read that you worked on

the new Beetle

and you worked on the Pontiac Solstice,

which is one of my favorites.

I love that, by the way,

Hannah and the Dax Shepherd

movie hit and run.

I haven't seen it.

And the Model S.

But I wonder,

do you think the Cybertruck

is going to age the same way

because it's obviously

a much more controversial design

than the other three?

I'm really curious to see how

Cybertruck evolves.

I think when it came out,

it shocked everybody.

I think nobody really believed

that we were serious

or that we were going to be able

to do something like that.

And yet, we put it into production

basically as we showed it.

And I think it also

helped inspire a little bit

of a movement in the design world,

at least in the automotive world.

And you see it in products as well.

It got people

feeling like,

OK, we can break out

and we can be different

and it's OK.

And Cybertruck is still a truck.

It's still a great truck.

The underpinnings of it are not fake.

It's not just aesthetically different

and falls apart on every other metric.

Our direction was

we have to make a truck

that drives and handles

like a sports car

but has the functionality

of a pickup truck

that you would expect

and exceed on those levels.

And then with that,

we were able to bring

an aesthetic that was different

based on a manufacturing principle

that helped us bring the products

to light in a different way

where we were putting

the toughness on the outside.

We're creating like an exoskeleton

in the vehicle using different materials

that didn't require paint

so that's a much more sustainable process.

We don't have the big stamping

requirements in the factory

and so the process is different

and the end result

is a really unique aesthetic

which I think

does it last the test of time?

I think historically looking back

hopefully I see that

it sparked a movement

that allowed everybody

to start to think a little bit differently

about products that we create

and things that we put in our lives.

Listening to Hot Pursuit

from Bloomberg Radio,

I'm Matt Miller

along with Hannah Elliott.

We'll have more of our conversation

with Tesla's chief designer

Franz von Holthausen

right after the break.

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This is Bloomberg hot pursuit.

I'm Matt Miller along with

Hannah Elliott.

Now here's more of our

conversation with

Franz von Holthausen,

chief designer at Tesla.

Franz, would you

would you ever consider

making a smaller version

of the Cybertruck

or even an SUV

Cybertruck type thing,

something smaller

that might have more

volume potentially?

That's definitely all things

that we've considered.

I think,

you know,

wait and see is probably

maybe the best.

Darn it, I hate that answer.

You know, it's tough.

We're working on

so many really innovative

and fun and great things

into the future.

And I would love to be

able to share them.

I would like a three row,

like a Tahoe competitor.

Oh God.

Listen, you're sitting in

what appears to be a

multi-seat vehicle.

Is that the robo van?

I'm in the Robus, yes.

The Robus.

Okay, so tell us about that.

It's like a new

mass transit vehicle.

Are there plans to

show it anytime soon?

Yeah, we showed this vehicle

almost a year ago now

at our 10-10 event,

which is really based around

autonomy and the future of

transport.

And,

you know, this is a,

it's a 14 passenger,

you know, up to 20

with standing room,

autonomous van.

Vehicle that really just

transforms the,

the vision of what it means

to be moved around.

This is, you know,

an idea of urban transport

where it's

not quite as personal

as

an individual

cybercab robo taxi experience,

but gets, you know,

cost per mile,

way down,

allows the customer

to have a fare

for, you know,

10 or 20 cents a mile

and really

unlocks the ability

for transport.

For people that

maybe

don't have the,

the,

wherewithal the ability

to afford

transportation now,

this gets them

rather than,

you know,

bus stop to bus stop,

this gets them closer

to their destination,

closer to their

pickup spot

and just

freeze up

transport for

under,

under privileged folks.

I think it's

really going to revolutionize

transportation

and that's,

you know, one of our goals.

And we also wanted

to do it in a fresh

futuristic way

so that you really feel like

you're stepping into

a better world,

a better experience,

a more sustainable

world.

And just,

you know, I think

there's something about

feeling good

in

the way that you're

transported.

It's the same as,

you know, fashion

or the house that you

live in,

you feel good about

the things that you

put around you,

you feel good about

when something is

designed well,

it looks futuristic,

it has

an emotional connection

that you can

feel positive about.

And that's the

experience you're trying to

get.

Is that something that

you see in the U.S.

or is that for more,

you know,

very dense urban

centers?

So that would be

for the U.S.?

Yeah.

Cool.

Well, everybody loves

Waymo's here in Beverly

Hills.

They're very

excited about those.

So,

there seems like there's

been-

Our cyber capital

of a taxi experience

is coming to LA soon,

so.

I gotta ask about

the

handle story

that Bloomberg

wrote about,

you know,

the door handles

are flat

Teslas

and the interior

buttons are electric.

I was recently

stuck in a Corvette,

which has the same kind of thing

until I,

you know,

somebody at the

parking garage

pointed out that I could

find the emergency latch.

You have a similar system.

Nitz is looking into this now.

Apparently,

Beijing is looking into it.

Have you considered

a redesign

or a fix

for these issues?

We actually have

a mechanical release

that's,

you know,

right at the

electronic one, too,

and we're combining the two.

So,

you know,

in the moment

that you're in a panic situation,

the muscle

memory

to go to,

you know,

what you know is right there.

So you just pull

a little bit further on the lever

and you have

the mechanical release.

So that's something

that we're working on.

Yeah.

And it's in the cars now.

All right.

So if there is,

if there is then

a China ban,

you're ready to roll that out

so that...

Yeah, we're working on the...

Well, actually the ban,

the ban, I guess,

the Chinese issue

is the flat

outer door handle.

So,

would you do something?

Would you

make a change,

like, you know,

Ferraris have that little

crease you can reach into?

Is there some idea

about that on the outside?

Yeah, we're working on it

right now

and just looking at the,

you know,

the details of the regulation,

even when that

happens

and we'll have

a really good

solution for that.

I'm not,

I'm not worried about that.

It makes sense, you know,

I know, like,

it's one thing for us adults

to know that,

but for kids,

you know,

it's a little bit different

to expect a kid

to know how to go

for a manual release.

Yeah.

So the idea of combining

the electronic one

and the manual one together

into one button,

I think,

you know,

makes a lot of sense.

It really helps to,

you know,

the muscle memory

of reaching for something

every day

is there

and intuitively just

grab the same thing

and you're free.

By the way,

Franz,

the design language

is very clear

across the

sexy models

and the truck

is obviously a departure

from the S,

the three,

the X and the Y,

but

do you stick

with that

design language

for future,

you know,

15 years later,

20 years later,

or is there a point

where you guys

decide to

change it up

for the cars

that you're making?

I mean,

I think what we're actually

looking at is that

every product

that we're working on

really deserves

its own unique

identity and language

and we don't want to

pre-prescribe

a language

to that.

I think there's also

making sure that we're

relevant

and forward-looking

and, you know,

not getting stale

in terms of

the delivery of the products

aesthetically.

So we look at every product

as if it's unique

and

potentially has its

own identity

and going forward.

So, you know,

I'm excited about the stuff

that we're working on

and I think,

you know,

you'll start to see it

pretty soon.

You know,

this is an interesting

idea that I've

actually been

following a bit

with other automakers too.

For instance,

Mercedes

has decided to go back

to the

roller-style

volume control

on the steering wheel.

Yeah.

Just the bigger idea

that, like,

sometimes

the most

futuristic or advanced

thing isn't

actually what consumers

want

and it's been really

interesting to see,

you know,

sometimes it's

two steps forward,

one steps back,

it's still progress,

but I have seen

and I was thinking

the other day about

BMW's big display key

that was like a

computer screen

in your hand.

They realize

nobody wants this

and they

stop selling it.

It's interesting that,

you know,

maybe some tech

is answering a question

that nobody's

asking.

Yeah, I think,

you know,

we're really looking

at a world of

autonomy

and how do we

best serve

the customer

and the autonomous

experience.

So,

you know,

every car

that does the

sales right now

has the ability

to be

completely autonomous

as the

firmware continues

to evolve

and develop.

And I think,

you know,

it's easier

and quicker

to change

software

that we have

is really focused on

an autonomous future

where

you're not driving

and the car

is driving you

and what are you doing

with your time?

What's your experience?

How are you doing?

You know,

the

meetings,

the leisure time,

the movie watching,

game playing,

relaxing,

basically,

in your journey.

And what

is the,

you know,

quote unquote hardware

that you have

around you

in your vehicle?

That's,

we're constantly looking

at that future state

of a world where,

you know,

in the very

near future

where you don't

have to drive

at all.

If,

you know,

and if you do,

it's maybe very little.

You've also

want to drive,

you still have a great

vehicle to be able

to do that.

You've mentioned

sustainability also

a couple of times,

Franz, obviously that's,

I would think

at the forefront

of Tesla's

yeah,

raison d'etre, really.

And

you've also mentioned

that you want to design

a car

that's

maybe

easy or not

expensive to produce

so that more people

can get it.

And you want to put,

I know,

that you want to

make a lower cost vehicle.

Is it

harder now

with these

steel and

aluminum

tears

because

you build

one of the most American

cars that there is

in terms of production,

but you still have

to import those

right?

We're,

we're,

I think,

you know,

we're looking at

how do we become

or continue to be

the most American

manufactured vehicles.

And

ultimately the,

the,

you know,

we just

want to bring

a great experience

at an affordable

rate.

It's,

you know,

how do we

design into that

space?

What are the

material choices

that we use?

How do we

leave a better

advantage

making sensible

choices on

sustainable materials,

et cetera?

And

I think,

you know,

where we are

an American company,

people tend to forget

that.

And I think,

you know,

being locally sourced

is really important to us.

And we're

continuing to

just explore

how do we

maximize on

that level.

And I think,

you know,

we have an

incredibly

creative team

that's really looking

at,

you know,

sometimes bringing

the impossible

at a lower cost,

you know,

the aspirational

at a lower cost.

And that's,

you know,

always what we

try to achieve.

All right.

I know we're

out of time with you.

I have one

philosophical question,

though.

You've been at Tesla

for so long.

What is

the key to your

longevity?

I mean,

you've been through

thick and thin.

What's your,

what's your secret sauce?

I don't know

if there's a secret

sauce.

I mean,

we're focused on,

you know,

delivering

an exciting future,

a sustainable

future that we all

believe in.

And I think

when we,

you know,

continue to bring

products that are

aesthetically beautiful,

that are aspirational,

and we figure out

how to do that

in a sustainable

and affordable way,

then,

you know,

I think we,

Tesla continues

on its mission.

And,

you know,

I think,

you know,

that's really focused on

doing that

at a super high level

where every detail

counts,

every millimeter

counts,

and

yeah,

well,

in the moment I stopped

doing that,

I guess that's maybe when

Franz,

it was great

to get some time with you.

I really appreciate it.

Obviously,

we could go on

for hours and hours,

but I know

you have a lot to do.

So thank you very much,

Franz.

Fun Holt's house in there

from Tesla.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks.

All right.

Our thanks to Franz

von Holt's house

and for joining us.

He is the chief designer

at Tesla.

That does it for this week show.

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